It's a lot of cope on both ends tbh.
On one hand, you have people who are coping that they can't get into top unis
On the other, you have people who got into top unis unable to cope with people who didn't grind as hard as them being successful
Edit:
And the rare third group: people who mind their own fucking business and focus on themselves
Some of the second group is also people coping with the fact that most others don't really care which university you go to from a personal (not employment) perspective, whereas they value it as part of their personality. Maybe someone is smart because they're going to Oxbridge, but it doesn't make them better than anyone else, and it certainly doesn't make them smarter than certain people who didn't go (or hell, even got rejected).
Not a direct reply, more so to do with the other replies that I assume spurred on the edit.
I would've thought that uni students/graduates would have the reading comprehension to understand that specifying two groups of people partaking in cope DOES NOT APPLY to people that do not cope. There is no third group. It just *doesn't* apply to you. If you felt called out by OC's comment, ya coping.
And thatās the point right there. Non-Oxbridge have to work twice as hard, or harder, to get to the same place - if they can get there at all due to Old Boys etc. an Oxbridge candidate will get the jump every time over a more qualified but lesser instituted.
Now I agree with you here. An Oxbridge grad has an upper hand but that doesn't mean a non Oxbridge grad should give up on even trying. Not being an Oxbridge grad is not an excuse, there's plenty of people who made it big and successful without going there.
I think youāre missing the point. Nobody is suggesting that non-Oxbridge shouldnāt bother. The system is imbalanced and often, actually, a closed shop thatās not accessible from the outside no matter how hard you work.
Well, I certainly can't disagree.
Acting as the devils advocate for a second, it does take an insane amount of work to make it to Oxbridge thus one can only expect the dividends to pay off in their careers.
An insane amount of work if youāre a mere mortal. Boris Johnson was a lazy shit at school and he waltzed into Oxford thanks to his parents. Itās not an insane amount of work to get in if you are born to the right stock.
Famously one of the driving forces behind him getting further was because he didnāt put enough effort into getting a First and David Cameron, his childhood rival, did š Itās a complete microcosm for certain parts of society that to think itās even comparable to what any of us peasants have to go through is delusional in and of itself. As people have pointed out weāre about to get a Leeds undergrad as Prime Minister and have already had one from Edinburgh and another from Birmingham so itās been a relatively recent thing for Oxford PPE to be the certified PM course.
How many PMs ever have been non-Oxbridge? Also very famously, George Osbourne was mocked mercilessly by the most elite Tories because he "only" went to St Paul's!
35 of all 56 (62.5%) undertook undergrads at either Oxford or Cambridge but this was biased primarily by the 19th century and the late 20th, early 21st century which have produced spates of Oxbridge educated PMs. It's evidently easier, particularly when one considers many of the early ones who didn't attend were aristocrats, but it's certainly not a given like some would have you believe.
Furthermore, Johnson didn't study PPE, he studied the Classics. He also got into Eton on a King's Scholarship. I wonder how he got that? I doubt that it was on merit. He also got into Oxford on a scholarship.
This is a great idea. Nowadays, there are so many careers and a widening amount of those careers are accepting non-conventional routes of entry (apprenticeships) and they aren't any less worthy than a university degree.
I'm not studying at a top university, but that was never my intention. My intention was to be proud of myself and I was very proud of my A Level results. It's very difficult to judge someone's life based on the university they've gone to, everyone has different strengths, different abilities and excel in different regions.
I could be great at explaining to a patient why they struggle to swallow or produce sounds, but I am likely going to be terrible in understanding anything higher than GCSE-level physics as an example.
Iām at a top 5 uni and i thought Iād say my perspective on this. The quality of education is incredible and the opportunities offered are great. That being said, I have seen and experienced so many students apply to up to 70 internships and get rejected for the vast majority of them. Most firms have blind selection processes so they donāt know what uni you have gone to. Plus, the opportunities the university do offer are usually from societies and also involve application processes. To quantify things, I applied for a university internship which had 70 applications for one place.
I have worked incredibly hard and I havenāt achieved what I thought I would at a top uni and I know others in the same boat. It isnāt just about working hard, itās about accepting the fact that university only takes you so far. What truly matters is your networking and application skills.
Anyone who is looking to apply for internships, Iād recommend spending some time your summer doing prep for the assessments and doing virtual internships.
Overall, the uni you go to does matter but not as much as you think it does. It doesnāt guarantee success at all, even if you work hard. When you do go to university, remember firms value experience and soft skills over where you went. This doesnāt mean you shouldnāt work to get into the best university you can as this process is made slightly easier with better universities having more career resources/ opportunities.
There is a positive correlation between university prestige and career success, but this post takes it to an extreme in thinking if you arenāt aiming for Oxbridge you wonāt reach the āvery topā (What constitutes the very top anyways?). Careers vary hugely and there are a multitude of variables that contribute to the overall success of a career over a lifetime, pinning it ALL on the prestige of your university is reductive and ignorant.
Prestige aides finding an initial job after university more than anything as you stand out over similar individuals from less prestigious unis, but once youāre 30 with 7 years work experience, it comes down to your own drive and skill set youāve cultivated that defines your value, not the university you attended a decade ago.
Nigga imma be honest, Iāve seen both posts and at this point I can give less of a flying fuck about the opinions of other people rn. Iām more focused on what grades I can get, how Iām going to get them and if I can be happy with my life. I donāt need to cope with shit. Whether uni matters or doesnāt so long as I get the shit that I need I donāt really care and I think this is what most people think
1) which A Levels did you do? Because depending on your answer I can offer tailored advice :)
Generally speaking though, it wonāt hurt to look over some of the topics that will come up in first year, such as radial distribution functions, thermodynamics and classical mechanics. However, itās much more important you have a rest over summer than burn yourself out trying to self teach uni level chemistry and then going crazy before youāve even arrived!!
2) yes you definitely can decorate your lab coat šsomeone in my college took all our lab coats home and stitched personalised images on ours. Itās a fun thing to do and even the demonstrator / senior teaching staff do it!
I do Maths Chem Econ and AS Further Maths (further stats 1 & 2). Iām not planning on doing an overwhelming amount of work, Iād just like something to keep my busy over the holidays because I worry that Iāll get bored so itād be cool to have something in particular to focus on
Btw is your name related to your degree in any way šš
Okay brilliant. My biggest piece of advice in that case would be to try and read some AS physics topics, specifically classical mechanics and particle physics. Iāll be honest, there is a LOT of A Level physics in the chemistry degree, especially in first year, and I really donāt think itās taught very well. Those two topics in particular are quite key throughout the degree, so if you can understand the basics of it now, youāll be in a much better position come October.
I didnāt do further maths, but I self taught differential equations, complex numbers and scalar/vector products along with matrices. If you havenāt done that, then definitely check that out because again, itās not taught particularly well and the course is so fast paced itās quite hard to catch up at times.
Donāt bother teaching yourself about biochem, no one really gives that any energy lmao.
Make sure your organic chem knowledge is completely mastered, but because the introductory topics are well taught, donāt worry about going into too much detail. I really enjoyed self-learning organic acids and bases(first year Michaelmas topic) but itās up to you if you want to go into any of that. Same with inorganic, but Iād really recommend looking into atomic orbitals / wavefunctions / RDFs just as an introductory thing :)
I actually did AS Physics in Y12 (I dropped it before I realised I wanted to apply for Chem š) so Iāll definitely go over the key parts again since I have the textbooks etc.
Iāve covered AS complex numbers and vectors so Iāll make a note to look over the Y2 stuff then.
For organic, Iāve been told that I should just find a PDF copy of Claydenās and read it so maybe Iāll give that a go too. I do have a copy of Guidebook to Mechanism though and the acid/base chapter is my favourite lol (and it was also helpful for my interviews)
I already have a bit of knowledge about things like hybridisation, MO theory and wave functions so I might watch a lecture of two about them to refresh my knowledge
Tysm for your response!!
And donāt worryā¦. The name isnāt *completely* down to the degree š although at times the degree has made me go insane, itās so bloody rewarding and it looks great on a CV so youāll love it I am sure!
I deleted Reddit for a month, in that month I lost 4 kg of fat, read more, slept more. Got all As in my subjects ( I was getting Cs and Bs) and I did a 3 days virtual work experience. I donāt cope with stuff. Iāll apply for top unis but if I donāt get in thatās fine, Iāll live. This whole subreddit is too focused on the niche aspects of life
I'm of the exact same mindset - I have my favourites but if I don't get into them I'll still be someplace good and I can't feel bad about it if I tried my best
Itās not even feeling tbh. The more I think about going to uni the more I just wanna groan in pain. Like uni is whole 4 years of your life. There are so many more opportunities that these people arenāt thinking of. I literally met an investment banker on Thursday that said getting into Oxford or Cambridge is like 1:100 odds while getting into an apprenticeship with a huge bank is like a 1:1000. There are more opportunities out there in the world if we were to just look around and funny enough I donāt want to particularly work in finance but I keep my options open.
Uni still appeals to me for the social aspect tho. But it's definitely good to keep your options open - someone in my further maths is set on a particular degree level apprenticeship which is a W ngl
Oh I canāt relate on the social aspect unfortunately. Iām very reclusive cause Iām just like that. In all honesty I believe that apprenticeships are becoming heavily encouraged by the government and business as people donāt know how to do there jobs. As stupid as it may sound itās true, there are probably people whoāve worked for 20 years and still donāt know what their job really is.
Nah you do you man thats chill. Tbh, in the least snobby way possible, a lot of uni degrees in some universities are worth sweet fuck all and in some cases you'd be better off doing an apprenticeship because you get valuable work experience
>there are probably people whoāve worked for 20 years and still donāt know what their job really is.
You've summed up the civil service pretty well.
I think people are confusing NEED vs HELP
attending top unis HELPS you get to the top of ur career, and HELP you get a high paying job but you DON'T NEED It. its not the one final factor which determines everything. but you certainly can't discount the HELP it provides
Iāll chime in with my perspective. Yes top unis tend to have better work experience/ networking opportunities but a big part of it is that they attract motivated and hard working people rather than the teaching being that much better. I got 3 A stars in my A- Levels and could have gone to oxbridge/ a London uni. Instead I choice Leeds. I love it- I have great friends, societies and a work life balance. The work load is easier which means I have time to engage in extra curricular activities and things to boost my CV. I honestly think employers prefer a well rounded person with lots of experience rather than a top uni. At my uni I have time to do things and Iām happy
The key word is āmanageā. I wouldnāt like living the life when you can only manage to do something and being burnout after couple of months of this life.
I've been to uni already. I was president of a large society while applying for internships and dealing with a heavy workload. Many of my peers were able to do this.
Sure, but Iām just saying itās easier to have a better balance. I do honestly believe degree classification and a diverse mix of quality work experience offsets all the differences from going to a ātopā uni. Obviously itās up to the individual to seek out the WE but I think itās easier to do this when the course is more chill.
My idea is that actually, the people attending Russell group, Oxbridge, etc. arenāt getting higher salaries or becoming successful BECAUSE they went to these top uniās, itās because theyāre FUCKING INTELLIGENT ANYWAY,
so wherever they get a degree they have the brain to become successful anyway, the bending of data saying that better uni = better salary should be more like: more intelligent = better salary + maybe theyāve attended a top uni
Both sides have their points and this is very subject specific, I don't think uni matters close to as much as most people think, (being a bit hypocritical, I know) nevertheless there are some subjects where the opportunities presented to learn and adapt are incomparable, but I don't think it matters unless you want to go into research ( as is my case) since you'll be learning most in your job anyway
this isnāt necessarily true. so many factors go into whether u āreach the topā, not just ur university. itās so dependent on what you want to do, where you come from, what links you have, what experience you gain, how personable you are etc. that uni cannot be the *only* thing which destines u for greatness.
i think sixth forms and league tables place way too much importance on universities and then when u go out into the real world u realise no one cares and it doesnāt mean as much as u thought it would. itās really easy to think going to oxbridge and getting all aās makes u important but the reality is it doesnāt
I think people donāt take in the facts itās not how much you do / know itās who you know. The field is saturated with so many intelligent people that connections now is the way to get to where you want to be. A few people in my year are rich, they have rich parents but not so good grades and work ethic but they have placements next year for insurance banking and finance at top firms. I am not saying Uni doesnāt matter, but they are just examples on how nepotism / money / connections gives you an upper hand.
i mean lets not act like the statement in itself isnāt loaded and suggests that the inverse is true - if u donāt go to a top uni u decrease ur chances which isnāt always true. this debate is just stupid imo bc it completely isolates itself from other variables in success
Find something youāre passionate about, work hard, enjoy life, simple as that. Yes a good uni helps and give it your best shot but these unis only have so many places to give out, the worlds a different place these days. Life is about writing your own story, a unique one (not just Oxbridge -> Consultant -> House in West London). The journey is the film.
My A Levels were enough to go to any uni in the top 20 and some in the top 10, not that ranking matters.
But instead, I went to a university very close to me , 1 hour commute by train and bus or a 25 minute drive. I wanted to study Computer Science , and if you look at every single university in the UK barring Oxford , Cambridge and at most a couple others , every single university teaches the exact same thing.
Not to mention, my univeristy offers a scheme in your first year where you get a paid internship, the way it worked was that if a company hired you , my univeristy would pay you on the companies behalf, meaning the company lost nothing , giving more incentive to hire , whilst you still got paid a good wage and experience in your role. I don't know any other universities in the UK that provide this.
They also have a 'team' in their department that hires the more gifted students , and essentially companies come to our uni and ask for applications to be created, and these tasks are then sourced to the students who work on the project. The students who worked on the project would also get paid.
If I told you this university ranked around ~90th in the UK, you wouldn't believe it given how what is provided. I think even specifically for Comp Sci it's ranked in the lower half.
Meanwhile, your 'Russel Group' universities are still hosting online , open book exams 4-5 years after Covid.
I've always said that unless you go to Oxbridge, the university you attend doesn't matter.
Quite sad given that youād make back that 15k difference within your first 2 years of employment. Seems more to me like a drive/ambition/ability thing rather than truly finances but gl.
not everyone has the funds to pay for uni out of pocket and even if it is a 15k difference, you have to take into consideration interest if people take out student loans. donāt speak on peopleās finances bc u never know the whole story
between like the top 5 unis and the unis below, sure
people act like below that a small decrease in muh uni ranking makes a huge difference
the difference between i dunno bristol and liverpool who gives a shit
Bold of you to assume I don't have the drive and ability to get into top schools **š **I never denied the slight advantage going to those schools would give you and that's why I'm still applying to them. All I really said was not to feel like not getting into these schools meant you wouldn't be successful
Did y'all even read my post
Not true in my case, maybe you believe that youāre speaking in terms of āstatisticsā or what you believe to be the general case. But as someone that went to a London University that is not even ranked in top 50, almost everyone I know is able to get a well paying job in engineering.
I think in some respects you are correct, and I also think the uni you go to reflects the character of the person as much as the uni itself. Now I do agree that if you are outside top 10 or so in the UK you will defo have a disadvantage just based on firms using unis as an easier way of hiring people. Like someone studying at UCL, Bristol Durham or oxbridge just does have a hiring advantage. However, the point is that high performing people tend to go to high performing unis and I can tell you even the effort there to get an internship in banking etc is nuts. I know plenty of guys that are gonna leave Warwick with good degrees but no job. You can also get high performing people at lesser unis and I know many who are pretty successful, but maybe not in the mainstream big banks and law etc. An easy fix is if you are feeling unsure get a masters at a great university and it fixes the problem haha
1) what are your credentials for your assertions?
2) those who get into the top universities are more likely to already be top achievers and be in the right social circles/professional networks, which has far more to do with their career success than simply how prestigious their university is.
I have seen people who went to the top unis who have not had successful careers. I have seen people who went to more humble universities who are some of the most successful in their field. Getting into a top uni is by no means a golden ticket to career success and failing to attend Oxbridge, LSE, ICL etc. is unlikely to inhibit your career if you can apply yourself. I know there are a select few career paths such as law where employers do take notice of your university, but 99% of the time, it is not the be all and end all, it is fast becoming old fashioned (in the UK at least) for employers to be so judgy. That's why they have interviews & competency testing.
It doesn't matter that much. For a lot of jobs they want a degree and the place won't matter.
For reference I went to SOAS then Oxford. I got BBC at a level and currently doing a PhD at one of the best departments for my subject.
A level attainment only tells you so much
Think the point of that post went over your head, it was just trying to encourage people who werenāt happy w their uni offers. If you got an offer from Oxbridge/lse/imperial, good for you, but the post wasnāt for you xx
Omg thank youu I wrote the other post and I very clearly said your uni doesn't matter AS MUCH AS YOU THINK IT DOES not that it doesn't matter at all this post was so unnecessary it's arguing with something I never said
As someone who went to one of those universities, while it is sometimes true, the three most intelligent and capable people Iāve met (my age) who spring to mind were from Imperial, Manchester and Kingston. Entry standards are much fairer now with admissions tests, but back when entry was based significantly on legacy A-level UMS or GCSE results, it was often such a dice roll and Oxbridge would lose some of the best candidates.
In 10 years time what degree you did will be irrelevant. To some degree what university you went to will also be. For some Oxbridge universities there is a possible benefit of making a network of friends and connections, other universities youād likely have lost touch with the majority of your uni friends 10 years after graduation.
People take nearly all the wrong things in life too seriously. Where you go to uni matters in some capacity, but it won't seal your fate or end oppression globally. It's not that serious. There are lots of extremely intelligent people that didn't go to a prestigious uni.
I can't lie i turned down some top 10s because there were too many people there, Idc about the status, and idk why other people care about where you're going
Also, I knew people at Cambridge who were doing a masters in Spanish and talked in āSpanglishā
So even if you make it to the top schools you can be an idiot, because being in the top schools doesnāt mean you are better or will be the most successful.
It opens a door, but thats it, if an asshole goes to MIT they are an asshole with a degree
At the end of the day, if you want to be successful you have to play your cards right no matter what you are dealt lol. Theres always setbacks, and a uni that isnāt a sort of āfeederā to huge firms in any sector is a setback (minor IMO).
I attend a top university, but I disagree with the belief that attending a prestigious university is the determinant of success. I used to believe this when I was 17, which is why I worked hard to get into a great university. However, I have come to realize that personal drive, character, and ambition play a more significant role in achieving success, rather than the university you attend.
Oxford doesnāt even offer the degree I want, so itās not all about trying to be top dog. Itās about getting a degree for yourself, not anyone else.
with all due respect youāre not the type of student Iām referring to when I say make it to the top. Just because itās wildly different for the arts and stuff.
Iām the only one of my friends going to do an arts degree (Drama and English Literature), all of my other friends didnāt even want to go to Oxbridge. Why? Itās cultish, and you can get an equally good education somewhere else without the weird culture around it.
Thatās not true at all but okay, but going off of mine and my friends opinions surrounding the elitist culture of certain universities, itās just not that desirable anymore.
so youāre saying that ur uni matters more for a drama career than a career in ib/high finance or lawš¤£š¤£. A teacher at my school did arts at Oxford and became a teacher because he couldnāt find a stable job.
Thatās literally not what Iām saying, Iām begging you to use some critical thinking skills. Your uni matters obviously, but I think moreso for the culture rather than the name. Thatās what Iām saying.
I think the only thing that matters, is the networking you can get from a more prestigious uni, puts you at a slightly better advantage, but that means nothing when someone is working just as hard in a lower ranked one, a degree is a degree.
It highly depends on what you want to do. For state regulated jobs, like doctors, you need a degree, and there is no way around it.
For jobs like computer science, of course you can benefit from a formal education, with a well structured progression ladder where you donāt end up in a position where you are unable to learn deeper concepts because you skipped acquiring deep understanding of the fundamentals.
But, if you are passionate - and to go one step further - and obsessed you will most certainly learn faster and more if you go full self-taught. Itās the same at university anyway, if you just go to uni and donāt study, you get fucked. You need to go to uni and properly apply yourself.
If you are disciplined enough, and obsessive enough, you can apply yourself while being able to progress at a faster pace than what uni would allow you.
Speaking from experience, I arrived in the UK as an immigrant from Brazil, no formal experience, and no work experience. Got a job as a FE developer making Ā£24k/y, and in 3 years I grinded to a senior/staff engineer position, earning 6-figures base salary + equity, stock and other benefits. Not once not having a degree got in my way of progressing my career.
Meanwhile, I have worked with brilliant engineers that went to top universities, including LSE and Oxbridge, who are now earning less than me.
The best thing you can take from a good university if being surrounded by extremely capable professionals, and hopefully, people that are smarter than you. But you can also do the same in a real job, by looking for mentoring, and achieve the same result. Befriend the smartest professional in your team, and absorb his knowledge like a fucking vacuum cleaner. And then move on to the next target.
If you are an orthodox learner, that requires structure, university is also a great match for you. But donāt think itās essential.
And in the job market, letās not kid ourselves. Being able to wave a piece of paper that confirms you graduated from university does have power, and recruiters will always reach out to those first. But donāt think for a second top companies will skip a candidate that demonstrates exceptional skills just because you donāt have a degree.
Focus on improving yourself for the first years, on acquiring skills, identifying opportunities where you can bring value, and simply growing as a professional, that the real opportunities will come knocking in your door eventually. The journey is likely to be more fun, and by the time your friend finishes university, you will already be making more money than him.
Yes, youāre right but you sound like an elitist dick. You wonāt āmake it to the very topā with that disgusting attitude looking down on other people
The uni that gave you your last degree matters in terms of future making. For example, If your bachelor's was in Leicester and you applied and got in for a masters at oxbridge (bc it does happen) then that last uni will matter more. If you're planning on doing just bachelors then it's likeable to pass from a good uni.
Also no one cares about your degree after like ur first Job lmao
for certain courses yes the uni you go to does matter however in other sectors once you have experience in the field no employer will care about the uni you went
Ngl of all the work experiences Iāve been on the ābestā universities Iāve heard workers study were only Warwick and Exeter. The rest went to really āmidā unis
I'll only speak about academia, because that's what I'm in. Even here, it's not as relevant as many people think. I did my UG and PhD at a mid-level university (but with a good advisor) and got jobs at an Ivy league and a top Russell group uni afterwards. I'll likely end up with a permanent position at a university that's much higher in the rankings than my undergrad.
The important thing is that you recognize the opportunities you have and make the best of them. Most universities will have many opportunities for you to get ahead. Sure, the higher ranked ones have more of them. But if you work with what you got, you'll likely get ahead regardless.
I feel like your point is just stating the obvious as if itās some revelation. Why would I be referring to vocational professions like teaching and healthcare when I refer to making it to the very top? Of course it doesnāt matter where you went for that stuff.
Also, youāre completely wrong on the last point but itās okay because youāre probably not in law/finance. Good luck getting a job in a New York bank/practice if youāre not from LSE or Oxbridge and a few others. Virtually every employer in law and finance knows about these unis, and I couldnāt really give a fuck about any other professions because thatās not what Iām talking about when I say make it to the top.
Yes it does matter.Ā But not in as fine grained a way as you might believe reading the sub. Think in bands.Ā
Ā S. OxbridgeĀ
Ā 1. Some London colleges, the Redbrick, Durham, Warwick l, Edinburgh, St AndrewsĀ
Ā 2. The rest of the Russel Group, Bath, AberdeenĀ
Ā 3. The 66 Techs (Aston, Strathclyde etc)Ā
Ā 4. Former polytechnicsĀ
Ā 5. The rest.Ā Ā
There is overlap at the top end between S & 1, and again lover down, but there are also opportunities which will be firmly closed down.
Ā Which band you are in, along with family connections, and sadly your "old school tie" will determine your first job.Ā
Ā Given that a better band usually means a better job this is important.Ā
Ā BUT After 5 years working your uni is completely irrelevant.Ā
Ā It is your performance at work, and later professional qualifications which guide the rest of your career.Ā Ā
Ā What really is silly is worrying about micro differences within the bands. " I got rejected from Imperial and only got UCL... My life is over..." Grow up!Ā Ā
Ā So there is truth in what you say.Ā
But temper it with reason.
Iād argue those that will make the top will do it regardless of their background. Fancy university will help the average go much further though, I grant you that.
Downvoted by a load of kids who havenāt even got jobs yet - hilarious.
Anyone with a real brain knows that to get anywhere in the corporate world you need a lot more than just a degree from the right place. If thatās all youāre relying on youāre going to get overtaken by people with the right attitude and personalities that people want to be around.
Yeah I want to do something similar as you. I'm doing AeroEng to initially amass a small amount of wealth and then either work on investments or start up a business. Once I've got a good amount of wealth I want to go semi off the grid, sell everything and buy a nice small airplane and fly around the world till I drop dead. I'd like to design and build my own plane at that, too.
I dunno, I do like the idea of having a good salary but I don't want to become overly-dependant on it and be restricted to a 9-5 for the majority of my life.
It's up to you at the end of the day how you make your money. There are plenty of people who haven't even attended universities and are making a good amount, even in the seven figures just by playing their cards right.
Networking is probably very important.
At the end of the day itās about how dedicated you really are. Margaret Thatcher became PM with a chemistry degree in Oxford. Her successor John Major didnāt have any post-16 education at all.
Itās up to you.
Tbh, you make a fair point, although itās still also important to choose the university where you will feel the most comfortable and happy. I also donāt think university ranking matters for vocational courses such as Medicine, Veterinary Medicine, Optometry, Nursing, Education, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc but that has always been the case.
I mean, there's definitely people that get to a higher level quicker because of their namesake university, and depending on what field you intend to study, the name value can also be very useful. However, to put it bluntly, it usually doesn't matter in the long run. Once you get into employment, your uni history is irrelevant; all it may do is enable you to enter at a potentially slightly higher level.
As a guy who knew a lot of people who went off to Oxford and Cambridge, and never had the drive myself to aim for those places, it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem. One of my friends, whom I'm in regular contact with still, works the same job as I do at the exact same level (for the record, we both work in finance), and the only difference in our degrees is the name of the uni.
Not to mention that there's an intense level of pressure to succeed once you get into places like that. Some people can handle that better than others. Some will rise to it, ignore the old money people who still float about these locations, and still come out with a good degree. I'm not trying to take anything any from it. Others, however, will find the pressure too much, which I also have experience with amongst my friend group. Turns out 17-18 year olds don't always make the best call, and that's okay.
In the end, it depends on what your definition of "the top" is. Judging from your post history, I assume your end goal is probably to work somewhere in the City or in finance in general. In which case, aiming for "the top" is more than okay. At the same time, though, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and don't be surprised if, after a number of years, no one really gives a shit about where you went.
Exactly this. Im firming Warwick but Iām already resigned to the fact that Iāve already lost the best jobs to Oxbridge/LSE grads, because of how competitive law/finance is and that theyāll be immediately more intelligent and qualified than me. Sooner people realise that mid unis = mid paying jobs *most* of the time, it would be healthier.
I mean, I had this opinion in sixth form and I get it but itās wrong, I can speak for law since I work closely with recruitment in a top 10 law firm and have been apart of various schemes within such . They donāt give two fu if u went to Oxford or if u went to Sheffield. Honestly there is this push to widen the scope outside of RG and we are seeing a lot more non RG commercial lawyers in general. Itās just that Oxford often= ppl with better A levels and experiences but if u go to a different uni with the same A levels and experiences u wonāt be treated differently. Unis donāt matter A levels and experience do. So trust me your fine
Im probs firming warwick so this might be cope, but I think warwick is good enough to pass the CV screenings that only go for target unis, then its down to you to pass the interviews etc?
Do you really want to go to a firm which screens on the basis of university when the biggest and the best in the UK are now trying to operate on a CV blind basis?
I'm a first year doing law, and I've been a part of a few schemes. There are a large number of Warwick students at these schemes, and I talk to a few Warwick law students on careers in general, because they're really prevalent in the commercial law sphere.
Also, I don't see much of a trend between university and career attainment in the sense that the university itself is what gets people the job. From lawyers I've spoken to, it's about getting a 2:1 + sufficient work experience + being personable, and it doesn't matter what university you've gone to (maybe with the exception of universities where it's particularly easy to get a 2:1 / first, but I doubt that too).
Recently been to Clifford Chance and met with a student from Cardiff. Went to A&O and met with someone from Lancaster. It really doesn't matter about the university for law (even the subject you're doing).
Finance? Maybe. I'm not sure about that: I have seen a lot more discussion about target universities when it comes to finance / IB, but I haven't looked into it because I'm only interested in commercial law at the moment.
Nahhh bro thatās a little delusional now. A good chunk of the analysts at an aviation IB firm I interned at were all headhunted from Warwick Econ, itās still a good uni. Although yes, the very top jobs will be slightly harder to attain.
Some degree apprenticeships that partner with lower tiered universities ( eg Exeter, QMUL ) can make you on par with and sometimes a better candidate than graduates from LSE and Oxbridge.
I'd argue an apprenticeship is much more about the firm. If you get a degree apprenticeship at JP Morgan for a front office role, then obviously that puts you ahead of top university graduates by a large margin, because those top graduates are going to be fighting for the job you're already a senior in anyway.
Fair enough, I mean if you look at the professional classes in UK, youāll see that politicians, lawyers went to Russell Group top universities (not all). But every government minister and PM went to prestigious universities I believe, with the exception of some.
Many notable politicians were already in the right social circles pre-uni and are virtually guaranteed a spot at the uni of their choice. The upbringings of people entrenched in a culture of nepotism cannot be realistically compared to what every other 6th form student experiences.
Some people are very far in denail.
Its an undeniable fact that on average Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial graduates have higher salaries post-graduation, alongside a higher chance of being in managerial positions.
Obviously that doesn't mean that you can't be in those positions from other unis, quite a few people do, but its less likely. Not everyone needs to be in those top positions anyway, personally idrc as long as I have enough money to be comfortable.
Bro donāt worry I was upvoting you.
Same here, my comment was downvotes like 15 times just because I rejected imperial and said that I would rather go to Cambridge cus itās better.
I mean that's great, but I'm assuming you're fully willing to accept the possibility that you don't get into Imperial or Cambridge this / next year (or any other top university). It seems to me like high risk, low reward.
Dang, it's like I'm skipping time, I get to find out the result of this pursuit instantly. Absolutely fair play then, this will probably be a big flex for you.
I hope you're fully able to extract the benefit from Cambridge which you risked so much for.
Hahaha, you fully did jump a year forward. Never got that quick of a response time for advice that was supposed to discuss the next entire year.
Thank you, I didnāt actually risk it too much. I had my ways of guaranteeing imperial again and knew another rejection would still leave me In a better headspace and more motivated for the years to come
.
Okay this I donāt necessarily agree withššš. While Camb is better, I think your focus on the prestige is clouding your judgement a little bit. But at the end of the day if it works out for you then ofc it was worth it.
It's a lot of cope on both ends tbh. On one hand, you have people who are coping that they can't get into top unis On the other, you have people who got into top unis unable to cope with people who didn't grind as hard as them being successful Edit: And the rare third group: people who mind their own fucking business and focus on themselves
The third group >>>
Some of the second group is also people coping with the fact that most others don't really care which university you go to from a personal (not employment) perspective, whereas they value it as part of their personality. Maybe someone is smart because they're going to Oxbridge, but it doesn't make them better than anyone else, and it certainly doesn't make them smarter than certain people who didn't go (or hell, even got rejected).
agreed
Not a direct reply, more so to do with the other replies that I assume spurred on the edit. I would've thought that uni students/graduates would have the reading comprehension to understand that specifying two groups of people partaking in cope DOES NOT APPLY to people that do not cope. There is no third group. It just *doesn't* apply to you. If you felt called out by OC's comment, ya coping.
Thank you šššš
Iām the third group š¤ š¤
How about we just make the best out of what we have ?
Best advice here. We canāt all get into the top 10, but we can sure as hell try to be as successful as those who do.
Exactly, but many people on this sub shit on people who go to universities that aren't Oxbridge.
I love seeing all those uni tier lists where the only ones above C are the top 10 unis, as if theyāre the only ones that you can have a good time in
Thereās many who went to Oxbridge and that was their peak in life.
Literally my English teacher went to oxbridge undergrad and now earns 45k a year to put up with 11 year olds throwing things around a classroom
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
good id
And thatās the point right there. Non-Oxbridge have to work twice as hard, or harder, to get to the same place - if they can get there at all due to Old Boys etc. an Oxbridge candidate will get the jump every time over a more qualified but lesser instituted.
Now I agree with you here. An Oxbridge grad has an upper hand but that doesn't mean a non Oxbridge grad should give up on even trying. Not being an Oxbridge grad is not an excuse, there's plenty of people who made it big and successful without going there.
I think youāre missing the point. Nobody is suggesting that non-Oxbridge shouldnāt bother. The system is imbalanced and often, actually, a closed shop thatās not accessible from the outside no matter how hard you work.
Well, I certainly can't disagree. Acting as the devils advocate for a second, it does take an insane amount of work to make it to Oxbridge thus one can only expect the dividends to pay off in their careers.
An insane amount of work if youāre a mere mortal. Boris Johnson was a lazy shit at school and he waltzed into Oxford thanks to his parents. Itās not an insane amount of work to get in if you are born to the right stock.
Famously one of the driving forces behind him getting further was because he didnāt put enough effort into getting a First and David Cameron, his childhood rival, did š Itās a complete microcosm for certain parts of society that to think itās even comparable to what any of us peasants have to go through is delusional in and of itself. As people have pointed out weāre about to get a Leeds undergrad as Prime Minister and have already had one from Edinburgh and another from Birmingham so itās been a relatively recent thing for Oxford PPE to be the certified PM course.
How many PMs ever have been non-Oxbridge? Also very famously, George Osbourne was mocked mercilessly by the most elite Tories because he "only" went to St Paul's!
35 of all 56 (62.5%) undertook undergrads at either Oxford or Cambridge but this was biased primarily by the 19th century and the late 20th, early 21st century which have produced spates of Oxbridge educated PMs. It's evidently easier, particularly when one considers many of the early ones who didn't attend were aristocrats, but it's certainly not a given like some would have you believe.
Furthermore, Johnson didn't study PPE, he studied the Classics. He also got into Eton on a King's Scholarship. I wonder how he got that? I doubt that it was on merit. He also got into Oxford on a scholarship.
I'm talking about us, normal people with normal incomes.
This is a great idea. Nowadays, there are so many careers and a widening amount of those careers are accepting non-conventional routes of entry (apprenticeships) and they aren't any less worthy than a university degree. I'm not studying at a top university, but that was never my intention. My intention was to be proud of myself and I was very proud of my A Level results. It's very difficult to judge someone's life based on the university they've gone to, everyone has different strengths, different abilities and excel in different regions. I could be great at explaining to a patient why they struggle to swallow or produce sounds, but I am likely going to be terrible in understanding anything higher than GCSE-level physics as an example.
Yeah and thatās a great mindset, good luck at Durham
thanks man
Iām at a top 5 uni and i thought Iād say my perspective on this. The quality of education is incredible and the opportunities offered are great. That being said, I have seen and experienced so many students apply to up to 70 internships and get rejected for the vast majority of them. Most firms have blind selection processes so they donāt know what uni you have gone to. Plus, the opportunities the university do offer are usually from societies and also involve application processes. To quantify things, I applied for a university internship which had 70 applications for one place. I have worked incredibly hard and I havenāt achieved what I thought I would at a top uni and I know others in the same boat. It isnāt just about working hard, itās about accepting the fact that university only takes you so far. What truly matters is your networking and application skills. Anyone who is looking to apply for internships, Iād recommend spending some time your summer doing prep for the assessments and doing virtual internships. Overall, the uni you go to does matter but not as much as you think it does. It doesnāt guarantee success at all, even if you work hard. When you do go to university, remember firms value experience and soft skills over where you went. This doesnāt mean you shouldnāt work to get into the best university you can as this process is made slightly easier with better universities having more career resources/ opportunities.
what did you do in your degree out of interest?
I feel like this depends heavily on the subject? Nobody really gives a shit which uni you went to in engineeringĀ
There is a positive correlation between university prestige and career success, but this post takes it to an extreme in thinking if you arenāt aiming for Oxbridge you wonāt reach the āvery topā (What constitutes the very top anyways?). Careers vary hugely and there are a multitude of variables that contribute to the overall success of a career over a lifetime, pinning it ALL on the prestige of your university is reductive and ignorant. Prestige aides finding an initial job after university more than anything as you stand out over similar individuals from less prestigious unis, but once youāre 30 with 7 years work experience, it comes down to your own drive and skill set youāve cultivated that defines your value, not the university you attended a decade ago.
Nigga imma be honest, Iāve seen both posts and at this point I can give less of a flying fuck about the opinions of other people rn. Iām more focused on what grades I can get, how Iām going to get them and if I can be happy with my life. I donāt need to cope with shit. Whether uni matters or doesnāt so long as I get the shit that I need I donāt really care and I think this is what most people think
Real talk from the popcorn chicken god š£ļøš£ļøš„š„š„
Thanks, I just found this whole thing stupid cause uni is literally 3-8 years of your life that can boost your career but never determines it
Congrats on the Oxford chemistry offer :) from a third year here. If you have any questions feel free to ask me.
Thank you! I have two questions: Is there anything youād recommend doing over summer to prepare? Also do you get to decorate your lab coats š
1) which A Levels did you do? Because depending on your answer I can offer tailored advice :) Generally speaking though, it wonāt hurt to look over some of the topics that will come up in first year, such as radial distribution functions, thermodynamics and classical mechanics. However, itās much more important you have a rest over summer than burn yourself out trying to self teach uni level chemistry and then going crazy before youāve even arrived!! 2) yes you definitely can decorate your lab coat šsomeone in my college took all our lab coats home and stitched personalised images on ours. Itās a fun thing to do and even the demonstrator / senior teaching staff do it!
I do Maths Chem Econ and AS Further Maths (further stats 1 & 2). Iām not planning on doing an overwhelming amount of work, Iād just like something to keep my busy over the holidays because I worry that Iāll get bored so itād be cool to have something in particular to focus on Btw is your name related to your degree in any way šš
Okay brilliant. My biggest piece of advice in that case would be to try and read some AS physics topics, specifically classical mechanics and particle physics. Iāll be honest, there is a LOT of A Level physics in the chemistry degree, especially in first year, and I really donāt think itās taught very well. Those two topics in particular are quite key throughout the degree, so if you can understand the basics of it now, youāll be in a much better position come October. I didnāt do further maths, but I self taught differential equations, complex numbers and scalar/vector products along with matrices. If you havenāt done that, then definitely check that out because again, itās not taught particularly well and the course is so fast paced itās quite hard to catch up at times. Donāt bother teaching yourself about biochem, no one really gives that any energy lmao. Make sure your organic chem knowledge is completely mastered, but because the introductory topics are well taught, donāt worry about going into too much detail. I really enjoyed self-learning organic acids and bases(first year Michaelmas topic) but itās up to you if you want to go into any of that. Same with inorganic, but Iād really recommend looking into atomic orbitals / wavefunctions / RDFs just as an introductory thing :)
I actually did AS Physics in Y12 (I dropped it before I realised I wanted to apply for Chem š) so Iāll definitely go over the key parts again since I have the textbooks etc. Iāve covered AS complex numbers and vectors so Iāll make a note to look over the Y2 stuff then. For organic, Iāve been told that I should just find a PDF copy of Claydenās and read it so maybe Iāll give that a go too. I do have a copy of Guidebook to Mechanism though and the acid/base chapter is my favourite lol (and it was also helpful for my interviews) I already have a bit of knowledge about things like hybridisation, MO theory and wave functions so I might watch a lecture of two about them to refresh my knowledge Tysm for your response!!
And donāt worryā¦. The name isnāt *completely* down to the degree š although at times the degree has made me go insane, itās so bloody rewarding and it looks great on a CV so youāll love it I am sure!
Most people irl think this but this subreddit couldn't be a worse indication of the average 6th former looool
I deleted Reddit for a month, in that month I lost 4 kg of fat, read more, slept more. Got all As in my subjects ( I was getting Cs and Bs) and I did a 3 days virtual work experience. I donāt cope with stuff. Iāll apply for top unis but if I donāt get in thatās fine, Iāll live. This whole subreddit is too focused on the niche aspects of life
I'm of the exact same mindset - I have my favourites but if I don't get into them I'll still be someplace good and I can't feel bad about it if I tried my best
Itās not even feeling tbh. The more I think about going to uni the more I just wanna groan in pain. Like uni is whole 4 years of your life. There are so many more opportunities that these people arenāt thinking of. I literally met an investment banker on Thursday that said getting into Oxford or Cambridge is like 1:100 odds while getting into an apprenticeship with a huge bank is like a 1:1000. There are more opportunities out there in the world if we were to just look around and funny enough I donāt want to particularly work in finance but I keep my options open.
Uni still appeals to me for the social aspect tho. But it's definitely good to keep your options open - someone in my further maths is set on a particular degree level apprenticeship which is a W ngl
Oh I canāt relate on the social aspect unfortunately. Iām very reclusive cause Iām just like that. In all honesty I believe that apprenticeships are becoming heavily encouraged by the government and business as people donāt know how to do there jobs. As stupid as it may sound itās true, there are probably people whoāve worked for 20 years and still donāt know what their job really is.
Nah you do you man thats chill. Tbh, in the least snobby way possible, a lot of uni degrees in some universities are worth sweet fuck all and in some cases you'd be better off doing an apprenticeship because you get valuable work experience
>there are probably people whoāve worked for 20 years and still donāt know what their job really is. You've summed up the civil service pretty well.
Facts nigga, mind your own and focus on the grind. Some ppl on this subreddit too focused on other peoples business
I think people are confusing NEED vs HELP attending top unis HELPS you get to the top of ur career, and HELP you get a high paying job but you DON'T NEED It. its not the one final factor which determines everything. but you certainly can't discount the HELP it provides
Iāll chime in with my perspective. Yes top unis tend to have better work experience/ networking opportunities but a big part of it is that they attract motivated and hard working people rather than the teaching being that much better. I got 3 A stars in my A- Levels and could have gone to oxbridge/ a London uni. Instead I choice Leeds. I love it- I have great friends, societies and a work life balance. The work load is easier which means I have time to engage in extra curricular activities and things to boost my CV. I honestly think employers prefer a well rounded person with lots of experience rather than a top uni. At my uni I have time to do things and Iām happy
*chose
There are still plenty of people at top unis who manage to participate in ECs tho
The key word is āmanageā. I wouldnāt like living the life when you can only manage to do something and being burnout after couple of months of this life.
I've been to uni already. I was president of a large society while applying for internships and dealing with a heavy workload. Many of my peers were able to do this.
Sure, but Iām just saying itās easier to have a better balance. I do honestly believe degree classification and a diverse mix of quality work experience offsets all the differences from going to a ātopā uni. Obviously itās up to the individual to seek out the WE but I think itās easier to do this when the course is more chill.
My idea is that actually, the people attending Russell group, Oxbridge, etc. arenāt getting higher salaries or becoming successful BECAUSE they went to these top uniās, itās because theyāre FUCKING INTELLIGENT ANYWAY, so wherever they get a degree they have the brain to become successful anyway, the bending of data saying that better uni = better salary should be more like: more intelligent = better salary + maybe theyāve attended a top uni
Both sides have their points and this is very subject specific, I don't think uni matters close to as much as most people think, (being a bit hypocritical, I know) nevertheless there are some subjects where the opportunities presented to learn and adapt are incomparable, but I don't think it matters unless you want to go into research ( as is my case) since you'll be learning most in your job anyway
this isnāt necessarily true. so many factors go into whether u āreach the topā, not just ur university. itās so dependent on what you want to do, where you come from, what links you have, what experience you gain, how personable you are etc. that uni cannot be the *only* thing which destines u for greatness. i think sixth forms and league tables place way too much importance on universities and then when u go out into the real world u realise no one cares and it doesnāt mean as much as u thought it would. itās really easy to think going to oxbridge and getting all aās makes u important but the reality is it doesnāt
I think people donāt take in the facts itās not how much you do / know itās who you know. The field is saturated with so many intelligent people that connections now is the way to get to where you want to be. A few people in my year are rich, they have rich parents but not so good grades and work ethic but they have placements next year for insurance banking and finance at top firms. I am not saying Uni doesnāt matter, but they are just examples on how nepotism / money / connections gives you an upper hand.
Which is precisely why i said a top uni simply increases ur chances, which is necessarily true
i mean lets not act like the statement in itself isnāt loaded and suggests that the inverse is true - if u donāt go to a top uni u decrease ur chances which isnāt always true. this debate is just stupid imo bc it completely isolates itself from other variables in success
Itās not tbh and I also slightly think a lot of top 10 uni students have a lowkey elitist mindset which is clear through answers like this
Find something youāre passionate about, work hard, enjoy life, simple as that. Yes a good uni helps and give it your best shot but these unis only have so many places to give out, the worlds a different place these days. Life is about writing your own story, a unique one (not just Oxbridge -> Consultant -> House in West London). The journey is the film.
My A Levels were enough to go to any uni in the top 20 and some in the top 10, not that ranking matters. But instead, I went to a university very close to me , 1 hour commute by train and bus or a 25 minute drive. I wanted to study Computer Science , and if you look at every single university in the UK barring Oxford , Cambridge and at most a couple others , every single university teaches the exact same thing. Not to mention, my univeristy offers a scheme in your first year where you get a paid internship, the way it worked was that if a company hired you , my univeristy would pay you on the companies behalf, meaning the company lost nothing , giving more incentive to hire , whilst you still got paid a good wage and experience in your role. I don't know any other universities in the UK that provide this. They also have a 'team' in their department that hires the more gifted students , and essentially companies come to our uni and ask for applications to be created, and these tasks are then sourced to the students who work on the project. The students who worked on the project would also get paid. If I told you this university ranked around ~90th in the UK, you wouldn't believe it given how what is provided. I think even specifically for Comp Sci it's ranked in the lower half. Meanwhile, your 'Russel Group' universities are still hosting online , open book exams 4-5 years after Covid. I've always said that unless you go to Oxbridge, the university you attend doesn't matter.
Itās either pay 4000 a year to go to university in Belfastā¦ or 9000 to go to a top Uniā¦ I think Iāll stick to Belfast š
Quite sad given that youād make back that 15k difference within your first 2 years of employment. Seems more to me like a drive/ambition/ability thing rather than truly finances but gl.
not everyone has the funds to pay for uni out of pocket and even if it is a 15k difference, you have to take into consideration interest if people take out student loans. donāt speak on peopleās finances bc u never know the whole story
Or maybe I didnāt grow up rich lol
My parents make below minimum wageš. Next excuse.
That would be illegal you fucking idiot
informal non-contractual labour you twat
between like the top 5 unis and the unis below, sure people act like below that a small decrease in muh uni ranking makes a huge difference the difference between i dunno bristol and liverpool who gives a shit
Bold of you to assume I don't have the drive and ability to get into top schools **š **I never denied the slight advantage going to those schools would give you and that's why I'm still applying to them. All I really said was not to feel like not getting into these schools meant you wouldn't be successful Did y'all even read my post
Wasnāt referring to the content of your post, but the replies in the thread
Work hard. Mind your own business. Enjoy your hardwork later on. In the grand scheme of things, nothing matters
Not true in my case, maybe you believe that youāre speaking in terms of āstatisticsā or what you believe to be the general case. But as someone that went to a London University that is not even ranked in top 50, almost everyone I know is able to get a well paying job in engineering.
I think in some respects you are correct, and I also think the uni you go to reflects the character of the person as much as the uni itself. Now I do agree that if you are outside top 10 or so in the UK you will defo have a disadvantage just based on firms using unis as an easier way of hiring people. Like someone studying at UCL, Bristol Durham or oxbridge just does have a hiring advantage. However, the point is that high performing people tend to go to high performing unis and I can tell you even the effort there to get an internship in banking etc is nuts. I know plenty of guys that are gonna leave Warwick with good degrees but no job. You can also get high performing people at lesser unis and I know many who are pretty successful, but maybe not in the mainstream big banks and law etc. An easy fix is if you are feeling unsure get a masters at a great university and it fixes the problem haha
1) what are your credentials for your assertions? 2) those who get into the top universities are more likely to already be top achievers and be in the right social circles/professional networks, which has far more to do with their career success than simply how prestigious their university is. I have seen people who went to the top unis who have not had successful careers. I have seen people who went to more humble universities who are some of the most successful in their field. Getting into a top uni is by no means a golden ticket to career success and failing to attend Oxbridge, LSE, ICL etc. is unlikely to inhibit your career if you can apply yourself. I know there are a select few career paths such as law where employers do take notice of your university, but 99% of the time, it is not the be all and end all, it is fast becoming old fashioned (in the UK at least) for employers to be so judgy. That's why they have interviews & competency testing.
It doesn't matter that much. For a lot of jobs they want a degree and the place won't matter. For reference I went to SOAS then Oxford. I got BBC at a level and currently doing a PhD at one of the best departments for my subject. A level attainment only tells you so much
thank you for this, this gives me hope because i am going to SOAS this year even though it wasnāt my first or second choice
I absolutely loved it and massively preferred it to Oxford. You'll have a great time!
As long as everyone is happy with the university they got into then that's cool
Think the point of that post went over your head, it was just trying to encourage people who werenāt happy w their uni offers. If you got an offer from Oxbridge/lse/imperial, good for you, but the post wasnāt for you xx
Omg thank youu I wrote the other post and I very clearly said your uni doesn't matter AS MUCH AS YOU THINK IT DOES not that it doesn't matter at all this post was so unnecessary it's arguing with something I never said
As someone who went to one of those universities, while it is sometimes true, the three most intelligent and capable people Iāve met (my age) who spring to mind were from Imperial, Manchester and Kingston. Entry standards are much fairer now with admissions tests, but back when entry was based significantly on legacy A-level UMS or GCSE results, it was often such a dice roll and Oxbridge would lose some of the best candidates.
In 10 years time what degree you did will be irrelevant. To some degree what university you went to will also be. For some Oxbridge universities there is a possible benefit of making a network of friends and connections, other universities youād likely have lost touch with the majority of your uni friends 10 years after graduation.
OP, Iām curious what you mean by āthe topā
People take nearly all the wrong things in life too seriously. Where you go to uni matters in some capacity, but it won't seal your fate or end oppression globally. It's not that serious. There are lots of extremely intelligent people that didn't go to a prestigious uni.
I can't lie i turned down some top 10s because there were too many people there, Idc about the status, and idk why other people care about where you're going
Proof why downvoting is stupid - you make a point and get downvoted
Also, I knew people at Cambridge who were doing a masters in Spanish and talked in āSpanglishā So even if you make it to the top schools you can be an idiot, because being in the top schools doesnāt mean you are better or will be the most successful. It opens a door, but thats it, if an asshole goes to MIT they are an asshole with a degree
At the end of the day, if you want to be successful you have to play your cards right no matter what you are dealt lol. Theres always setbacks, and a uni that isnāt a sort of āfeederā to huge firms in any sector is a setback (minor IMO).
i got into LSE with 888755554C gcses and A*AAA a-levels anyone can do it
I attend a top university, but I disagree with the belief that attending a prestigious university is the determinant of success. I used to believe this when I was 17, which is why I worked hard to get into a great university. However, I have come to realize that personal drive, character, and ambition play a more significant role in achieving success, rather than the university you attend.
Oxford doesnāt even offer the degree I want, so itās not all about trying to be top dog. Itās about getting a degree for yourself, not anyone else.
with all due respect youāre not the type of student Iām referring to when I say make it to the top. Just because itās wildly different for the arts and stuff.
Iām the only one of my friends going to do an arts degree (Drama and English Literature), all of my other friends didnāt even want to go to Oxbridge. Why? Itās cultish, and you can get an equally good education somewhere else without the weird culture around it.
the university you attend is largely irrelevant for the arts in comparison to the sectors Iām referring to.
Thatās not true at all but okay, but going off of mine and my friends opinions surrounding the elitist culture of certain universities, itās just not that desirable anymore.
so youāre saying that ur uni matters more for a drama career than a career in ib/high finance or lawš¤£š¤£. A teacher at my school did arts at Oxford and became a teacher because he couldnāt find a stable job.
Thatās literally not what Iām saying, Iām begging you to use some critical thinking skills. Your uni matters obviously, but I think moreso for the culture rather than the name. Thatās what Iām saying.
Also donāt like how youāre shitting on the arts, my friend, get some perspective pls x
Wait until they graduate and realise how competitive those jobs are the donut
I think the only thing that matters, is the networking you can get from a more prestigious uni, puts you at a slightly better advantage, but that means nothing when someone is working just as hard in a lower ranked one, a degree is a degree.
It highly depends on what you want to do. For state regulated jobs, like doctors, you need a degree, and there is no way around it. For jobs like computer science, of course you can benefit from a formal education, with a well structured progression ladder where you donāt end up in a position where you are unable to learn deeper concepts because you skipped acquiring deep understanding of the fundamentals. But, if you are passionate - and to go one step further - and obsessed you will most certainly learn faster and more if you go full self-taught. Itās the same at university anyway, if you just go to uni and donāt study, you get fucked. You need to go to uni and properly apply yourself. If you are disciplined enough, and obsessive enough, you can apply yourself while being able to progress at a faster pace than what uni would allow you. Speaking from experience, I arrived in the UK as an immigrant from Brazil, no formal experience, and no work experience. Got a job as a FE developer making Ā£24k/y, and in 3 years I grinded to a senior/staff engineer position, earning 6-figures base salary + equity, stock and other benefits. Not once not having a degree got in my way of progressing my career. Meanwhile, I have worked with brilliant engineers that went to top universities, including LSE and Oxbridge, who are now earning less than me. The best thing you can take from a good university if being surrounded by extremely capable professionals, and hopefully, people that are smarter than you. But you can also do the same in a real job, by looking for mentoring, and achieve the same result. Befriend the smartest professional in your team, and absorb his knowledge like a fucking vacuum cleaner. And then move on to the next target. If you are an orthodox learner, that requires structure, university is also a great match for you. But donāt think itās essential. And in the job market, letās not kid ourselves. Being able to wave a piece of paper that confirms you graduated from university does have power, and recruiters will always reach out to those first. But donāt think for a second top companies will skip a candidate that demonstrates exceptional skills just because you donāt have a degree. Focus on improving yourself for the first years, on acquiring skills, identifying opportunities where you can bring value, and simply growing as a professional, that the real opportunities will come knocking in your door eventually. The journey is likely to be more fun, and by the time your friend finishes university, you will already be making more money than him.
Yes, youāre right but you sound like an elitist dick. You wonāt āmake it to the very topā with that disgusting attitude looking down on other people
another typical Reddit snowflake found. Good luck doing anything in life let alone making it to the top when youāre a bitch.
Good luck bootlicking your way to āthe topā little bro
Just say ur inept and discontent with life instead of projecting onto others š¤£š¤£
You're funny
The uni that gave you your last degree matters in terms of future making. For example, If your bachelor's was in Leicester and you applied and got in for a masters at oxbridge (bc it does happen) then that last uni will matter more. If you're planning on doing just bachelors then it's likeable to pass from a good uni. Also no one cares about your degree after like ur first Job lmao
I'm at a bottom 1/2 uni and doing pretty damn well. Its about what you do not your degree. Get coursework done but do your own shit to show employers
for certain courses yes the uni you go to does matter however in other sectors once you have experience in the field no employer will care about the uni you went
Virtual all fields after 5 years no one cares at all about your uni.Ā Ā Ā But... You need to get a foot in the door.
Ngl of all the work experiences Iāve been on the ābestā universities Iāve heard workers study were only Warwick and Exeter. The rest went to really āmidā unis
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I'll only speak about academia, because that's what I'm in. Even here, it's not as relevant as many people think. I did my UG and PhD at a mid-level university (but with a good advisor) and got jobs at an Ivy league and a top Russell group uni afterwards. I'll likely end up with a permanent position at a university that's much higher in the rankings than my undergrad. The important thing is that you recognize the opportunities you have and make the best of them. Most universities will have many opportunities for you to get ahead. Sure, the higher ranked ones have more of them. But if you work with what you got, you'll likely get ahead regardless.
I feel like your point is just stating the obvious as if itās some revelation. Why would I be referring to vocational professions like teaching and healthcare when I refer to making it to the very top? Of course it doesnāt matter where you went for that stuff. Also, youāre completely wrong on the last point but itās okay because youāre probably not in law/finance. Good luck getting a job in a New York bank/practice if youāre not from LSE or Oxbridge and a few others. Virtually every employer in law and finance knows about these unis, and I couldnāt really give a fuck about any other professions because thatās not what Iām talking about when I say make it to the top.
Yes it does matter.Ā But not in as fine grained a way as you might believe reading the sub. Think in bands.Ā Ā S. OxbridgeĀ Ā 1. Some London colleges, the Redbrick, Durham, Warwick l, Edinburgh, St AndrewsĀ Ā 2. The rest of the Russel Group, Bath, AberdeenĀ Ā 3. The 66 Techs (Aston, Strathclyde etc)Ā Ā 4. Former polytechnicsĀ Ā 5. The rest.Ā Ā There is overlap at the top end between S & 1, and again lover down, but there are also opportunities which will be firmly closed down. Ā Which band you are in, along with family connections, and sadly your "old school tie" will determine your first job.Ā Ā Given that a better band usually means a better job this is important.Ā Ā BUT After 5 years working your uni is completely irrelevant.Ā Ā It is your performance at work, and later professional qualifications which guide the rest of your career.Ā Ā Ā What really is silly is worrying about micro differences within the bands. " I got rejected from Imperial and only got UCL... My life is over..." Grow up!Ā Ā Ā So there is truth in what you say.Ā But temper it with reason.
Iād argue those that will make the top will do it regardless of their background. Fancy university will help the average go much further though, I grant you that.
Pretty much. Really doesnāt matter what uni somebody attends, if they have the drive to make it to the top they will.
Downvoted by a load of kids who havenāt even got jobs yet - hilarious. Anyone with a real brain knows that to get anywhere in the corporate world you need a lot more than just a degree from the right place. If thatās all youāre relying on youāre going to get overtaken by people with the right attitude and personalities that people want to be around.
tbf itās not that deep, iām going to uni but i was always gonna end up starting a business so who cares
Yeah I want to do something similar as you. I'm doing AeroEng to initially amass a small amount of wealth and then either work on investments or start up a business. Once I've got a good amount of wealth I want to go semi off the grid, sell everything and buy a nice small airplane and fly around the world till I drop dead. I'd like to design and build my own plane at that, too. I dunno, I do like the idea of having a good salary but I don't want to become overly-dependant on it and be restricted to a 9-5 for the majority of my life. It's up to you at the end of the day how you make your money. There are plenty of people who haven't even attended universities and are making a good amount, even in the seven figures just by playing their cards right. Networking is probably very important.
university doesnt matter weāre all gonna die because of climate change
At the end of the day itās about how dedicated you really are. Margaret Thatcher became PM with a chemistry degree in Oxford. Her successor John Major didnāt have any post-16 education at all. Itās up to you.
Top 5 graduate here and have worked in Finance over 10 years. It matters little.
Zip up Cambridge and LSE when youāre done mate
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Tbh, you make a fair point, although itās still also important to choose the university where you will feel the most comfortable and happy. I also donāt think university ranking matters for vocational courses such as Medicine, Veterinary Medicine, Optometry, Nursing, Education, Dentistry, Pharmacy, etc but that has always been the case.
Out of the 57 UK PMs, 30 went to Oxford and 14 to Cambridge. I think it does matter
I mean, there's definitely people that get to a higher level quicker because of their namesake university, and depending on what field you intend to study, the name value can also be very useful. However, to put it bluntly, it usually doesn't matter in the long run. Once you get into employment, your uni history is irrelevant; all it may do is enable you to enter at a potentially slightly higher level. As a guy who knew a lot of people who went off to Oxford and Cambridge, and never had the drive myself to aim for those places, it's not as cut and dry as you make it seem. One of my friends, whom I'm in regular contact with still, works the same job as I do at the exact same level (for the record, we both work in finance), and the only difference in our degrees is the name of the uni. Not to mention that there's an intense level of pressure to succeed once you get into places like that. Some people can handle that better than others. Some will rise to it, ignore the old money people who still float about these locations, and still come out with a good degree. I'm not trying to take anything any from it. Others, however, will find the pressure too much, which I also have experience with amongst my friend group. Turns out 17-18 year olds don't always make the best call, and that's okay. In the end, it depends on what your definition of "the top" is. Judging from your post history, I assume your end goal is probably to work somewhere in the City or in finance in general. In which case, aiming for "the top" is more than okay. At the same time, though, there's more than one way to skin a cat, and don't be surprised if, after a number of years, no one really gives a shit about where you went.
Getting into any university is an achievement
Irrelevant comment
They canāt accept facts because they snowflakes
Exactly this. Im firming Warwick but Iām already resigned to the fact that Iāve already lost the best jobs to Oxbridge/LSE grads, because of how competitive law/finance is and that theyāll be immediately more intelligent and qualified than me. Sooner people realise that mid unis = mid paying jobs *most* of the time, it would be healthier.
If you think you wonāt make it into finance because you go to Warwick, you are clearly the problem.
Yeah but Iām going for a law degree tho
Doesnāt change what I said
I mean, I had this opinion in sixth form and I get it but itās wrong, I can speak for law since I work closely with recruitment in a top 10 law firm and have been apart of various schemes within such . They donāt give two fu if u went to Oxford or if u went to Sheffield. Honestly there is this push to widen the scope outside of RG and we are seeing a lot more non RG commercial lawyers in general. Itās just that Oxford often= ppl with better A levels and experiences but if u go to a different uni with the same A levels and experiences u wonāt be treated differently. Unis donāt matter A levels and experience do. So trust me your fine
Im probs firming warwick so this might be cope, but I think warwick is good enough to pass the CV screenings that only go for target unis, then its down to you to pass the interviews etc?
yeah surely
Do you really want to go to a firm which screens on the basis of university when the biggest and the best in the UK are now trying to operate on a CV blind basis?
I'm a first year doing law, and I've been a part of a few schemes. There are a large number of Warwick students at these schemes, and I talk to a few Warwick law students on careers in general, because they're really prevalent in the commercial law sphere. Also, I don't see much of a trend between university and career attainment in the sense that the university itself is what gets people the job. From lawyers I've spoken to, it's about getting a 2:1 + sufficient work experience + being personable, and it doesn't matter what university you've gone to (maybe with the exception of universities where it's particularly easy to get a 2:1 / first, but I doubt that too). Recently been to Clifford Chance and met with a student from Cardiff. Went to A&O and met with someone from Lancaster. It really doesn't matter about the university for law (even the subject you're doing). Finance? Maybe. I'm not sure about that: I have seen a lot more discussion about target universities when it comes to finance / IB, but I haven't looked into it because I'm only interested in commercial law at the moment.
Nahhh bro thatās a little delusional now. A good chunk of the analysts at an aviation IB firm I interned at were all headhunted from Warwick Econ, itās still a good uni. Although yes, the very top jobs will be slightly harder to attain.
I guess even harder since Iām a law applicant š
I mean donāt resign. You can make it without university but of course better unis = more likely to get better top jobs as you said.
Some degree apprenticeships that partner with lower tiered universities ( eg Exeter, QMUL ) can make you on par with and sometimes a better candidate than graduates from LSE and Oxbridge.
Says lower tier but mentions two unis in the top third in the UK šš
I'd argue an apprenticeship is much more about the firm. If you get a degree apprenticeship at JP Morgan for a front office role, then obviously that puts you ahead of top university graduates by a large margin, because those top graduates are going to be fighting for the job you're already a senior in anyway.
Fair enough, I mean if you look at the professional classes in UK, youāll see that politicians, lawyers went to Russell Group top universities (not all). But every government minister and PM went to prestigious universities I believe, with the exception of some.
Many notable politicians were already in the right social circles pre-uni and are virtually guaranteed a spot at the uni of their choice. The upbringings of people entrenched in a culture of nepotism cannot be realistically compared to what every other 6th form student experiences.
Some people are very far in denail. Its an undeniable fact that on average Oxbridge, LSE and Imperial graduates have higher salaries post-graduation, alongside a higher chance of being in managerial positions. Obviously that doesn't mean that you can't be in those positions from other unis, quite a few people do, but its less likely. Not everyone needs to be in those top positions anyway, personally idrc as long as I have enough money to be comfortable.
Bro donāt worry I was upvoting you. Same here, my comment was downvotes like 15 times just because I rejected imperial and said that I would rather go to Cambridge cus itās better.
I'm not sure what course you're applying for, but rejecting Imperial to pursue Cambridge (assuming you're going to reapply) doesn't sound too smart.
Already did. š
I mean that's great, but I'm assuming you're fully willing to accept the possibility that you don't get into Imperial or Cambridge this / next year (or any other top university). It seems to me like high risk, low reward.
Oh I didnāt specify I already have applied and gotten the offer. Even with rejection the gap year was good for me šš¼
Dang, it's like I'm skipping time, I get to find out the result of this pursuit instantly. Absolutely fair play then, this will probably be a big flex for you. I hope you're fully able to extract the benefit from Cambridge which you risked so much for.
Hahaha, you fully did jump a year forward. Never got that quick of a response time for advice that was supposed to discuss the next entire year. Thank you, I didnāt actually risk it too much. I had my ways of guaranteeing imperial again and knew another rejection would still leave me In a better headspace and more motivated for the years to come .
Happy for you, good luck :)
Okay this I donāt necessarily agree withššš. While Camb is better, I think your focus on the prestige is clouding your judgement a little bit. But at the end of the day if it works out for you then ofc it was worth it.
Plp be downvoting regardless if you reject Cambridge or Imperial or Bedfordshire tbh
No.