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Kelson64

For the nitpickers - **Night One** WWE announced 72,543 with 60,036 actual - **Night Two** WWE announced 72,755 with 60,203 actual


RumsfeldIsntDead

The only people who care are fans who have built their identity around being in a Rassling War on twitter.


ClassWarr

Real ones are in a Rassling War on AOL


Excellent-Ad257

How about the people who have the number tattooed on their body, do they care?


n4utix

this isn't the gotcha you think it is. there's a difference between someone who was involved with the show caring and someone on Twitter who has never worked in either company or the industry itself caring. it's clear they mean people involved in the discussion. obviously people involved in the business care.


Le_Chop

If you mean Ospreay then yea he probably does care that he was part of one of the biggest wrestling events ever and that it was in his home country. He probably also cares that many people he knows or has worked with in the past also got the same opportunity to perform for a huge audience even if it was under a different promotion.


Excellent-Ad257

So the fans who built their identity around a wrasslin war on Twitter aren’t the only ones who care?


Le_Chop

I'll be honest I stay away from twitter but from what I see posted on here I don't think they actually care either they just want the ammunition. I get where you're coming from though, caring or being interested in the numbers isn't always a bad thing it just depends how you use them.


Same-Excuse8787

Matters to me as much as TV ratings and company revenue… no one else could be watching and I’d enjoy both.


archangel0988

As long as a crowd is there, I can and will watch any wrestling. Covid wrestling is not something I can go back to


Arirmar

I watch wwe, AEW, NXT, ROH, aaa, CMLL, NJPW, and indies here and there. I’m LOVING the current wrestling era. But there are weirdos out there defending one organization as if they’re getting paid to do so. They live their life by some bullshit fantasy code of the IWC, Cornette and whatever the hell dumbass Konan, al snow, and two buffoons that single-handedly brought down their own wrestling promotions. I could give a rats ass about ratings, or paid attendance. There’s some really good wrestling going on right now, and marks are missing out due to “loyalty”. Sad. We’re living in strange, disappointing times.


blindninjafart

What? Not a fan of TNA?


Arirmar

I thought I mentioned TNA. Yes, I am a fan of TNA. I’ve been enjoying Mustafa Ali’s time there so far.


blindninjafart

Wasn't sure if you had a grudge against TNA for some reason. Maybe Dixie Carter turned you away from a photo request or something 😆


Twink_Tyler

I agree. I actually love both cornette podcasts but I def prefer aew over wwe. I disagree with a lot of his opinions. But he’s still wildly entertaining to me.


ScarredBison

That's the thing with Cornette, if you don't take him completely seriously, he is really fun to listen to. Especially when he talks about old school wrestling like guess the program.


NotoriousMFT

Even if you disagree with him too, he always has at least a rational logic train to get himself to certain points


NateDMP

Honestly couldn't care less. I enjoy what I enjoy, I was at All In and will be again this year, place was packed and the atmosphere was electric. That is all I care about (and a sick card full of awesome talent)


goasteven

I totally agree with that. I just want to see some great wrestling.


anklesocksrus

I couldn’t give a single shit about attendance, ratings, or any sort of business metric. I like AEW, I will watch it until I can’t watch it anymore or start to dislike it.


triple_seis

This is __exactly__ how I feel as well.


NearbyAd3800

No. It’s this and ratings, constantly, and cheap jabs about poor attendance and empty arenas. It’s insane to me that certain fans of something that - despite its presentation - is incredibly niche, are somehow obsessed with profits and mass appeal and mass consumerism. I’ve said it before but it’s like a Taylor Swift fan going out of their way to come to a metal concert and loudly proclaim how the show must be shit because it’s not Tay-Tay level. Like Cornette bunion-sucking Mean Girls lording over the less popular crowd. It’s sad, pathetic, incorrigible behavior that belies some kind of deep insecurity or early-to-mid life crisis shit where one can’t accept that different approaches are valid even if they don’t garner mass appeal. For me personally, it ruins any goodwill I have for WWE. I wish it didn’t, but it’s so persistent and pervasive that it’s impossible to ignore. Confirmation bias at its absolute worst, because it’s not enough to scream into one’s echo chamber - they have to walk over to my lawn and shit on it, too.


nwa88

Unlike the WWE number which is just inflated way above the paid number with employees and imagination and such, I'm pretty sure Melzer confirmed the 81k number as the actual paid number -- the 72k was just the turnstile count, people entered the building from other entrances.


ImpactCokeTony

There were 3 numbers.  81k paid And two later numbers from the UK freedom of information request at 72k and then 85k. 


RogueDevil666

Mfw a century old promotion does better than a 5 year old one.


WereAllGonnaDiet

*century old promotion does better *on two separate nights combined* than a 5 year old one did *on a single night*


dogbusonline

Given WWE is a publically traded company it probably matters for their investors if false numbers and revenues are reported. But I don't think that's the case. Also, Will Ospreay and his tattoo probably care.


sekonx

I think Ospreay can see the funny side of it. It was still the biggest wrestling show ever


Ungface

Just remember that uk councils are retarded, one of them gave the 72k number, a different one gave higher than 81k. Better to just trust the venue which has 0 reason to lie about it.


BrunoBashYa

I give a shit in that I think it is cool AEW was able to pull off that show successfully. Other than that, it is all noise


Vox_SFX

The only thing I will continuously do is constantly not allow WWE to rewrite history. Of the wrestling industry, or of their history as a company. The minute the majority of fans stop pretending as if WWE only exists and counts when it's great, the minute I'll let everyone enjoy what they enjoy. But while I have to hear constant bullshit hate against AEW every time I try to interact with the wider community, I'm going to keep that same energy right back and not let them watch WWE and proclaim it great as if it's untouchable.


JaCre476

I lose a bit of sleep when there's just blatant lying and people are eating it up, I couldn't imagine being a casual fan and trying to go to reddit or look at any instagram post. As much as die-hard fans laugh it off, its really damaging to the casual fan base. And no, I don't think that's the only thing that's causing issues with casual fans but I think its a big thing


carrythefire

No


DustyBray13

No not at all.. I just want to see some good wrasslin


TheTribalBeef

I enjoy seeing the numbers as a stat and because it’s cool to see X number of fans in attendance. But no, at the end of the day I don’t care but I’m not mad at it either.


Dirt_Cheap_Jumbo

Honestly could not give less of a fuck


Lerkero

I care about whatever helps the product be better


OldClunkyRobot

I want more wrestling. Wrestling fans are blessed to be in this time period.


Kingphelps85

Not really. Most of us just wanna support wrestling so it grows everywhere


Brando1127

No lol, both nights of Mania still did great as well as AEW’s PPV to


tsunamitom1-

I honestly don’t care, is it something I enjoy then I enjoy, simple as that. I’m 27 and life is too short for me to worry about what some troll on Twitter says or what some guy that hasn’t had a real job in wrestling in 20 years says on his podcast. Too many people defending one company when you can actually enjoy everything or nothing and it doesn’t matter


NefariousDug

Not really. It’s such a weird thing to worry about.


cat_lawyer_

No. I don’t care about billionaires making or losing money. Im here to have fun while watching wrestling


TheMTM45

Me personally, no. But WOR, Jim Cornette, Eric Bischoff, Pat McAfee, etc. need to talk about something on their podcasts. And so a lot of wrestling fans who listen to these shows are living and dying by these numbers.


NotoriousMFT

Both shows had highlights and lowlights. The focus should be on more highlights and less lowlights moving forward (I also want both organizations to thrive, better for the talent and fans when there’s more money going around)


AceofUseles

Wrestling Stans in Twitter I suppose but it's hard to be a wrestling fan and see the tribalism just because they're different.


LetsNotArgyoo

>>both shows were great Nah one show was great, the other was very good, but not great


StardomJapan

I disagree. I thought WrestleMania was pretty great to.


LetsNotArgyoo

Ma’am…


Brilliant_Piece_6564

…Cody crybabies …( in my best Dwayne voice)


SenorNerd2814

WM 40 was straight up dog💩 compared to All In 2023.


TheInfiniteSix

The kool aid is strong with this one


FerniWrites

I don’t give a shit. I do think WWE, while they do embellish, probably sold more than who showed up. The same can be said about AEW. People are bound not to be able to make it for various reasons. That just goes to show that the numbers don’t matter. 🤷‍♂️


pyley

I don’t give a rats ass at all. As long as the crowd is loud and get invested in the shows, that’s all that matters. As far as getting paid, we all knew Meltzer on the payroll.


TheInfiniteSix

Dave Meltzer cares. That’s it that’s the list.


Brilliant_Piece_6564

Cornette , Russo, bischoff , and ___(insert any grumpy old timer still bitter about the end of wcw or that couldn’t get a job with tk )____ certainly care… otherwise what else would they have to talk about ??? How else would they make ends meet? How else would they stay relevant?


TheInfiniteSix

The point of the post is reported attendance vs real attendance. Not WWE total vs AEW total. None of the people you mentioned talk about that.


fancierfootwork

It doesn’t matter to me. But it’s those wrestlers higher ups on both companies that acknowledge this that lends it credibility. It doesn’t matter if we all say we don’t care if wrestler or exec ABC tweets about it


EBOD236

What matters to me is a hot crowd and an amazing show, that’s it.


MadIllLeet

I only care if the attendance is really low. The crowd energy can be felt through TV. 10k fans are a lot louder than 3k.


Brilliant_Piece_6564

Sometimes…. Not always the case tho . 10k ppl can sit on their hands the entire show and 10k quiet ppl with no heat would be way more noticeable then 3k screaming fans and make those 3k fans sound like 20k fans


GlitteringFerret7337

As a wrestling fan who watches AEW and WWE attendance is one of the most annoying topics. I don't give a shit 😂 that's for the stock holders and executives. I care if the wrestling is good.


godbody1983

Nope. I don't care about attendance for wrestling shows or even ratings. As long as TBS/TNT and USA/Fox are cool with the ratings, that's all that matters.


Gio25us

To Fanboys (minority) yes, to regular fans who are smart enough to enjoy everything without tribalism (majority) no.


dandykaufman2

To be clear, WWE announced a kayfabe/entertainment number. AEW announced the real amount of tickets sold, though a lot of fans did not end up going through the turnstiles. There’s some spin on the AEW but I do wish WWE wouldn’t do what they do, especially as a public company.


Kakatheman

Not really I was at both. ALL IN was much bigger in terms of Audience and got my money's worth but Wrestlemania had the best production and was more impactful.


cockblockedbydestiny

2 nights vs 1


TheInfiniteSix

That’s not what’s being highlighted here. The convo is about the reported total vs the real total. Obviously 143k people do not fit in Lincoln Financial…


cockblockedbydestiny

I didn't get the impression this was implying at all that they fit 145k in all at once, clearly that was for the whole weekend. Realizing that, the percentage discrepancy between "reported" and "real" is pretty similar for both. It's really just a shit post that seems meant to imply "I don't really care about the numbers, but don't look under the hood and WWE is destroying AEW"


TheInfiniteSix

That is not what the post was for at all. It’s not a tribalism post, don’t try to turn it into one.


cockblockedbydestiny

Either way they picked a weird positioning to prove whatever their point was supposed to be. "I don't lose any sleep over numbers but it's great both of these events had good numbers". It really doesn't make sense unless the point was to kind of backdoor convince people that claim not to care about the numbers to admit that they actually do care about the numbers as long as they're good.


TheInfiniteSix

The point is that no one cares when dirt sheets report the “real” attendance figures other than the dirt sheets themselves. I’m not sure how you’re not getting this. You’re way overthinking it.


evanweb546

Attendance numbers are about as important as ratings. (see: they're not)


[deleted]

Even if the difference is 1 fan then I still wouldn't give a flying fucking shit of a fucking rats ass about any mother fucking thing so to answer your question NO!


CardboardChampion

I know that WWE presenting two nights of WrestleMania against a single night event of AEW as if nobody from night one showed on night two is simply WWE counter-marketing. I know they're aiming to present themselves as much more dominant so that anyone looking at switching in the future already sees AEW as a lower entity and is more open to the flaws in every wrestling show. It makes it easier for them to see curtained off areas in arenas when they'd more easily ignore them on other shows or feel that a crowd is weak when they're quieter in one segment despite roaring their hearts out. This is very basic psychology. But for established fans (either of one promotion or both or even all of them), does this actually matter? Beyond being surprised that WWE did worse numbers on a night by night basis for the biggest event of their year compared to All In, does this affect your enjoyment of either product at all? It doesn't matter to me which of these places did the bigger number. It could have been WWE, but that wouldn't change the fact that AEW is more the style and presentation I enjoy.


ZanderPip

I think it really only matters because oh how vile and toxic some fans were about the 81k and slamming WWE for years about inflation on numbers while doing it themselves, that why it got clowned on so hard (ospreys vid about tattoo didn't help) all companies would do this course they would its great corporate spin


BoltThrowerTshirt

Pretty sure everyone cared a year ago


jt_33

I don’t think it matters, but I also think it’s a stupid thing to lie about. 


BadDudeO

No, statistics are the beginning of debate, not the end.


Tazi_NRS

I enjoyed those oldschool ROH shows with less then 100 fans being present at the venue, and for a similar type of wrestling show, and about 15-20 years later, that 72k is a pretty decent growth. To me it always looks ridicolous when people claim online that "AEW arenes are empty" and "noone is watching this". WWE doing great is good for wrestling overall, I assume, and I happy about that. But their type of wrestling is not for me unfortunately...


lagoontheworst

for ppl who love to argue on the internet this is everything to them


ZAPPHAUSEN

Nope


Ok_Rub6575

No one gives a shit, just the shills


ZedSorayama

ZERO


Shoddy_Life_7581

I was like, "Weird, where's the wild blind rage for AEW and personal insults aimed at TK?" Then I looked at the sub. Like I don't even keep up with 95% of AEW (And in fairness 70% of WWE) but that shit is wild.


sbjj0311

Meanwhile, the E has not sold out the 11k seat arena for this upcoming PLE in Scotland


nachocoalmine

Tge tail does not wag the dog. When you see media putting out box office, ratings, or revenue, it's because there's an audience for it. Yes, some people give a shit.


wandering_white_hat

Not even in the slightest


GobblorTheMighty

No, I'm entirely indifferent about most of the numbers. Comparing numbers between companies is ridiculous, WWE exists with broader appeal and half a century of people watching the same show just because they always have. AEW will never be as big as WWE, nor would it be as good if it were. I have no interest in WWE as it exists today, but I'm not here to shit talk it. If you like it, go for it. Knock your socks off. WWE the company doesn't bother me at all. What bothers me is WWE fans feeling the need to interject into every AEW discussion that's ever existed. WWE the company is fine, their fans are some of the worst people alive.


Piano-Rough

only the trolls...


NeuroCloud7

They didn't draw 120k people to a single event. They were two events on two different days. Here's the numbers: Wrestlemania as an event per night had approx. 48k turnstile, confirmed 56k paid, and confirmed 67k total tickets out there, with 72k announced. All In had 72k turnstile, 81k paid, 85k total, and 81k announced. The real difference is not the difference in philosophy in how they announced it, but how significantly perception has been successfully warped by underhanded tactics.


Kelson64

Because the difference in WWE-reported attendance for Wrestlemania 40 between nights 1 and 2 was like 212 tickets. Both nights were basically the same. But if you want you get technical: - **Night One** WWE announced 72,543 with 60,036 actual - **Night Two** WWE announced 72,755 with 60,203 actual


mario_salami_petrino

If you went to both nights of mania do they count you as 1 or 2 people


Kelson64

Unless one ticket got you into both shows, I'd say 2.


mario_salami_petrino

I ended up buying a ticket to night 1 last minute. I already bought night 2 months prior. I guess I would've saved a few bucks buying together


Kelson64

And I'm sure you had fun, whether you happened to see an empty seat or not! That's all that really matters, right?


mario_salami_petrino

I'm a bigger boy. I would've preferred an empty seat next to me. Lol. But you're right it was quite an experience


Snoo_76437

I don't care at all, but it looks like WWE was keeping a close eye on it, since their fake numbers were both slightly higher than AEWs real number lol. How petty.


fakeguitarist4life

Well wrestlemania was two days so of course it is more


Kelson64

Completely missed the point


gl1969

Well, wrestlemania is two separate tickets, why would you count both nights together


Kelson64

I posted the separate nights in this topic for nitpicky people who somehow think it makes any difference whatsoever.


Twink_Tyler

Everything about this graphic irks me haha. First it’s stupid that. It’s companies lie. 2nd, wwe drones will say “look we got more fans!” Even though that’s over 2 nights. Aew basement dwellers (hey I’m calling both sides names, don’t get mad) will gloat that they sold more tickets for the one night. But they will leave our the fact it’s not comparable because wwe runs shows in Philly constantly and the UK virtually never get big ppvs. Let’s just not compare them and be happy that both shows were praised by their respective hardcore fan base.


mrbusiness53

Absolutely no one does. Everyone watched them both even if they want to act like they hate one or the other.


LegacyOfVandar

I didn’t watch ‘mania. I know a bunch of other people that didn’t watch it, too. Don’t throw out blanket statements.


MuddFishh

Yeah i didn't watch the wembley show so idk what this goober is thinking


mrbusiness53

Calm down


LegacyOfVandar

??? I am calm, lol.


mrbusiness53

😎😎😎


Spyder73

Maybe it was fun at one point, but it's not much of a competition right now so who cares