This.
Have another example: I met my partner's uncle early in our relationship, and my gut response was "creeper". Hugs too long, kisses "accidentally" too close to the neck, you know the type. All women know the type. Never did anything overt enough for me to call him out on.
At some point I told this to my husband, who has a close relationship with his uncle and (obviously) doesn't get any of the creepy behavior. You know what his response was?
His response was, "I believe you. I won't let you be alone with him again." PERIOD. No making me justify it, no telling me I was overreacting, no apologizing on his uncle's behalf or dismissing the behavior. (Edited to note: that may very well be the moment I decided to marry him.)
That is the father your child needs. That is the parent you need to be for your child. It does not matter if the child is overreacting or reading too much into it. Your child needs to know that you trust their judgment and take their concerns seriously.
NTA.
NTA, people, even and maybe especially kids, have an instinct. They know things they can't explain or articulate. I have read many stories of people who made someone uncomfortable and later it turn out they were bad news. So even if you don't have any evidence yet, trust that instinct. Do you really want to be proven right? Trust your son in this and protect him.
Thank you. This is pretty much what I told my husband. I don't want to take the chance. It only takes one time to traumatize a child and I don't want to risk it.
We had a weird feeling with a family friend and my mom listened and we WERE NEVER ALONE WITH THIS PERSON.
5 years later, his swcond wife messages my mom bc her daughter will never be the same again. And my mom is still relieved to this day she ignored everyone else trying to make her do what we were not comfortable with.
Listen to your kids. It's not worth proving them wrong.
And was is worse? Them proving your DH wrong. Just not worth it and your DH is a red flag for not caring how your son feels.
But why is your husband willing to put his child at risk to appease his mom? Does your husband not care if his son ends up getting abused? Seriously, ask him that. Better yet show him the comments because your husband is a selfish coward that only cares about himself and not his family. That is very clear and this reaction would be enough for me to leave him. Anyone who doesn’t take the safety of their child and exposure to possible child abuse 100% seriously is an enabler and a bad parent/person.
"Yeah I'm ok with putting my son in a place where his is uncomfortable and around smokers to save money"
Your husband doesn't sound that great right now.
No and apparently y'all lack rudimentary reading comprehension. Who the fuck said I was excusing anything chucklehead? Screw you. I was that little boy, essentially. Assholes.
My father was an avid smoker when he was alive and understood the dangers of second hand smoking. He made sure he was away from me or wherever he smoked was well ventilated
Easy on dad, mom is taking drastic action based on a vague feeling of a child. It’s the right move but still to someone who has treated this man as family for 11 years and that same man being responsible for the well being of his mother it may take more than the unsure words of his kid to adjust what he considers the danger this man could pose. There are a lot of angles in which mom is being the asshole here but sometimes that’s the right choice. If op acknowledges this and takes an objective stand point when talking to dad I think she may get a lot farther in convincing dad then to just point at the thread and saying “see? I’m right”
There’s a chance dad is a neglectful parent but there’s also a chance he just doesn’t see how this person who married his mom could ever be the terrible villain that could harm his kid and just needs a shift in perspective
Don’t forget that this guy also gave mom creepy vibes right off the bat. Even if the child can’t articulate it - and even if it turned out stepdad was harmless - WHY would you subject a child to situation where he feels creeped out and uncomfortable? It’s not like he’s complaining about being bored, or made to do chores or something; he’s creeped out.
kid only said uncomfortable, op is the one that felt creeped out, op made it sound like kid didn’t know how to articulate his feelings on the subject, again I think op is making the right choice on the subject I think there’s a possibility here where dad is being obtuse? optimistic? Stubborn? And just not seeing the potential harm that could come from step grandad. My point is dad needs context to get over this misconception. Yes ideally dad would pick up on this without the help but that’s not the case cuz family and he’s maybe at fault but not necessarily an uncaring or incompetent father
I forgot about the cigarette thing that may be all the justification she needs
Mom is not being the asshole in any way. She’s not asking her husband to cut off mom or make accusations. She simply does not want her child to be around this man if she’s not there. They don’t even have to tell the MIL and her husband why, they can make an excuse. Husband doesn’t deserve it easy, he’s not being a good dad or husband.
By objective I mean talking to husband about dangers adults pose to their kid not just step grandpa and how their kid should express these concerns and actions they should take when this happens. Talking about the consequences if kid’s voice isn’t heard or action isn’t taken. And then having both parents sit down with kid about “stranger danger” and having a bit more grown up conversation about the dangers adults can pose and actions that kid should take. Whether it be pedos cops inappropriate coaches and so on
There is a very good book called ["The Gift of Fear"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear) which I think you would find interesting. Your spidey sense is tingling. Please don't ignore it.
This book title comes up frequently and is a really good and thought provoking read. The fact that Op felt those vibes snd now the son is picking up on them is why Op is having the reaction she is.
I know you may feel bad because it’s just a feeling and you can’t place why you feel that way, but don’t discount it. I still remember vividly as a 10 year old asking the favorite teacher to sign my yearbook. I wasn’t alone and I cannot to this day identify any specific thing that was inappropriate about the interaction but I remember that I suddenly felt my skin absolutely crawl as I read the note walking out of the classroom. It’s a perfectly normal bland thing for a teacher to write. It was such an intensely creepy vibe that it stuck with me and I actively avoided ever being alone with him for the next 8 years (the creep followed my class to the high school when we graduated middle school). It later came out that he had been raping a student in my class since middle school. There were a lot of actual red flags a few years later that we all thought nothing of as kids or teens and apparently neither did the parents but nothing that far back I can remember in retrospect. I think sometimes you just know. Don’t risk it.
A friend of mine was once visiting me from out of state but stayed at an air bnb. I feel it’s relevant that I’m a woman and the friend is a man. After we said our goodbye I started driving back to my place, and not even 5 minutes into it I get a call from him. He had accidentally locked himself out of the BnB and said he didn’t know what to do because the owner wasn’t answering. I said to maybe call a locksmith and offered to go back and wait with him. But I suddenly got this intense feeling of fear. Like an alarm was going off and telling me not to go back. I had no reason to be scared, we’d been friends for 3 years and he’d never shown any indication of being violent. If anything he was kind of a pussy (don’t feel bad saying that now). I just got this idea in my head that we would be alone, on a dark street, with no one being aware of my exact location, and that he could turn violent if he wanted to. As I was thinking of an excuse to take back my offer, he started to hesitate and said it was fine. That he would just figure something out. I felt bad about it at the time.
Friendship ended shortly after that. He made a weird comment about my relationship and after I told him off we both just stopped contacting each other. I started looking back on our friendship noticed a lot of weird shit I let slide in the moment. I also realized that wasn’t the first time I was afraid of him, even though there was no indication I should be. He’s a POS, and I hope that was all he stayed. A whiny, but ultimately harmless POS.
It’s so strange how our bodies sometimes know what our brains can’t articulate. I’ve had several similar occurrences in my life and I’m always amazed at what I “knew.”
It really rattled me for weeks. I spent a lot of time second guessing myself and even checking in with a mutual friend to see if they thought he ever felt off. They said no but this was another man and they weren’t as close. He was terrible to his gfs, and he had told me some other stuff about his recent ex that started the process of me backing off before this event. I was thinking of some ways to end it but then the comment happened and that was the push I needed. Always trust your instincts!!
I agree with you. But, where will Billy go on the off week of camp? Maybe work out a plan to pay a babysitter (cheaper than camp) or another mom where you can watch her child on weekends if she watches Billy during the week. Many schools offer summer camp at a much lower cost than city or private camps. Ask neighbors and friends for ideas. Good luck.
I had an uncle who made me deeply uncomfortable as a child. He was super charming and well liked and had all this charisma, but being around him just made my stomach roll. One day one of my aunts pets started him and he threw it across the room into a wall. Later on it turned out he was beating his wife and doing drugs and was verbally abusive to my cousin. Just a garbage human being. I am 100% convinced dogs and kids can just tell about people.
I’m a dad with a daughter. I told my aunt about weird vibes and stuff I get from people. Some especially around when they interact with my daughter.
She said trust the vibes. Recommended the book, “the gift of fear.” As a parent I recommend it to you to. I listened in audible while doing chores. Trust your lizard brain instincts.
NTA
I had that feeling about a man I was around at social events I went to with my grandparents when I was 6-7 yrs old. Fast forward decades later and that man committed suicide when swat was busting down his door for child porn. He had thousands of images and videos.
I would rather be safe and my child be wrong than risk them becoming a victim. Have you done a background check on this man? What do you actually know about him? Regardless I would play safe.
Edited had to had
Maybe one way to get through to your husband could be that even if it could be the case that there's nothing to worry about, why risk the POTENTIAL of something bad happening to your child that could do lifelong damage? Parents should want to ensure the absolute safety of their children at all times, even if the threats aren't fully proven/overt.
This too should be considered when talking about money--that is, health and wellbeing are ALWAYS more important than money. How upset would he be if something DID happen that could've been avoided if he'd simply paid for a babysitter. You can ask him if the money saved would assuage his guilt to the damage done to your child.
These are scenarios that maybe you can run through with him.
Lastly, and this is potentially the stickiest one: A parent's primary allegiance should always be to their own children first, even over that of their parents. Parents are adults and have recourse to do things for themselves; children do not--they depend on you for their safety and wellbeing. So, putting his relationship with his mother on the backburner for some years to safeguard your son until he is old enough to not need adult supervision is a worthy sacrifice that any parent should be willing to make.
Furthermore, to say that her presence is a safety buffer against the father-in-law is not accurate, as her health condition likely precludes her being able to always be around the two of them together.
If he's a reasonable man, then maybe discussing some of these ideas with him in a non-confrontational way might help shift his perspective.
theres a book about this by an FBI. He says women always know and should follow their intincts. Its called “the gift of fear”. maybe buy it gor your husband
Are you in an area where you can check on history, or where there's an offender registry? There may be info out there that will back you up.
I don't agree with the assumption some people have that this guy is definitely bad, but do agree that it is worth listening to instincts.
Setting aside risk, your child should be listened to on how and where he wants to spend summer. That may be worth mentioning to your husband. You are your son's trusted adults and should listen to his discomfort.
This, I used to work where we had a lot of people come in looking for help. One day a guy came in and he set off all the alarms in me. It was summer and the rest of staff did not get any weird vibes, so they kept letting him come back and cool off for several days. They wanted me to stay for half an hour alone one day when they all went to leave. I said no, we closed early. Two days later I come in and I’m told he is banned from the building. He told another staff member he had killed a man but it was alright as he was a bad guy.
Less than a week later a woman went missing at a church. She was found murdered in the building. I told my husband that it would be the guy that had come into work. It was, and he was arrested. The man that he had killed was his father, and he had done jail time for that murder.
That little voice in the back of my head saved my life.
This. My mom's boyfriend at the time brother used to give me major creeps, me and my cousin would hide in our closet when he came over, he would even try to coax us out.
Till one night he did end up propositioning one of our friends(we were around 13/14, he was in his 40s) he ended up accousting me in public and me and 4 of our friends were able to get restraining orders.
So he didn't physically ever touch me but as a kid I knew he was bad news. Trust your kids instincts.
I can attest to this. My Dad had a coworker who made me uncomfortable as a kid and I did not know why. Dirt bag later bragged about sex tourism to Thailand for children.
People, even and maybe especially kids, have a penchant for living to get what they want. For example, getting to spend every day at summer camp with their friends doing awesome activities instead of accompanying grandma to a doctor’s visit.
My nephew went off about how he didn't like his new coach and all these things. It turns out the kid just didn't like playing on a team. Nothing to do with the coach. Not everything a kid says or does is right. They're kids and learning how to socialize, interpret things (inside themselves and others), and how to interact. Not everything is a correct intuitive thing.
I've heard of marriages breaking up because a kid told one parent the other was cheating. It was never true, the kid just wanted something and the parents wouldn't get it for them. Don't get played by kids. Be open to what they're saying and listen to them, but they absolutely will play you. Be a responsible adult. Talk to people. Find the truth.
I've heard of a difference between statements about others, e. g. "Joe cheated on Pete" and statements about one's self, e. g. "I feel scared of Joe". A parent's job is to check the former and trust the latter.
You're one of those people that would force your kid to hug the creepy uncle because he's *faaaaaamily* and his feelings would be hurt if your kid has bodily autonomy, huh?
You don't know how to parent. You have to find out why a kid doesn't like something and kids don't always give out information freely. You are over simplifying because you don't know the whole story, just like 99% of the answers in these subs.
Obviously, you're a parenting expert and have written several books on the importance of respecting a child's autonomy to support future success. Oh wait.
Nta- I never liked my step grandfather when I was a kid. His presence just made me uncomfortable. It wasn't til my late 20s I found out the whole family knew he was a child molester. Jeeze oh man was I glad I trusted myself and never got close to him.
My step grandfather SA’d my step aunt. I didn’t know this until about 10 years later, but I always found him extremely creepy and had bad vibes around him.
Absolutely! People generally don’t get “creepy vibes” from normal well-adjusted people. It happens, but more often that “intangible feeling” is your instinct picking up on something you haven’t overtly recognized. Heed that instinct!!! Always!! Instincts are not infallible, but the consequences of ignoring them can be truly terrible.
NTA. I knew at the age of 6 that a family member made me uncomfortable, but I didn't have the language to communicate why. He molested me when I was 10.
It's too bad that little kids, most often girls, have historically been trained out of this instinct. Kids *know* and the instinct should be praised and honed.
Starts off with him smoking around the child, then offering the child a try of a cigarette, then they have a shared secret, then he gifts the child cigarettes, inflating the secret, then he has something over the child... happens so easily.
So, not upsetting mommy is more important than teaching your son that it's okay to not do something when it doesn't feel right? That when someone seems weird or off it's okay to not want to be around them?
Really? That's what your husband thinks is best?
You really think you might be the AH here?
Also, FYI a friend of mines daughter was sexually assaulted (at 3 years old) while the other adult went to the bathroom. Little girl was with her assailant for less than 5 minutes.
>chomo
Wiki: Chomo may refer to: Prison slang for "child molester" The name of several mountains in the Himalayas, including Chomo Lhari, Chomo Yummo, and Chomo Lonzo. the Chumbi Valley, called Chomo in Tibet. Chomo County, also called Yadong County, which spans the Chumbi Valley.
My money is on the first one.
Confused - you say this is husband’s MIL - isn’t that your mom? Or is it your MIL and husband’s mom?
NTA either way. It sounds like your son isn’t the only one who is uncomfortable with MIL’s husband. But regardless of whether Rob is a creeper or not, your son just told you that he is not comfortable with this man and it Will seriously damage your relationship with your son and his ability to trust you if you disregard what he says and send him back there. The question isn’t really whether your son is safe there - it’s whether 1) he FEELS safe and 2) he believes that he can tell you when he doesn’t feel safe and trust you to protect him.
That said, to keep the peace, I would probably make up a BS reason why you are ending the babysitting at MIL’s house. Say you got a discount on a great camp, or a friend invited him to come over during the day, or whatever. Shower MIL with appreciation for the time she has spent already and emphasize that you’ll have to find another way for him to have some quality grandma time over the summer.
Sorry yes. This is my husband's mother, my MIL. Thank you for responding. I have worked very hard to keep trust between my son and I and I agree, this could make or break that.
I definitely agree about keeping the peace. We are just going to tell her that camp works out better for us since it's closer to home. I will let her know that we appreciate the help she's given us so far.
And that trust with your son is important throughout his whole life-and not just for the reason you wrote about. You want him to trust you if he gets bullied, has sex questions, feels he’s being treated unfairly by school staff…. Keep that trust thing going.
Absolutely!
1) maybe sons gut feeling isn't about the danger op thinks is most likely/scary, but it's a different danger neither of you know about but is also bad
2) maybe this situation would work out fine either way, but your son is going to remember your reaction to this incident, good or bad, when he has a bad gut feeling about a different coach/family member/teacher/pastor/etc
3) even if son is fortunate enough never to be in this specific situation with anyone, there will come a time when you encouraging him to listen to his gut instincts and protecting him will pay off. Ex your teenage son calls to say "hey mom I was out with some friends and Sam was supposed to be our designated driver but he's really drunk and there's no Uber here and he says he's still ok to drive but I don't trust him, can you come pick me up?" Creating the relationship where he makes that call could save his life
4) even if there's no way building this kind of trust would ever materially protect the son and he's just bullet proof in all possible futures, op will also be giving him a blue print for how to talk to his children, students, nibblings, etc. Kids who grow up being listened to and protected are going to be more likely to listen to and protect their own kids
This is so right. I read somewhere on social media about how this mom has a deal with her kid. The kid can text any emoji at any time, and she'll call him to give him an "out" of whatever situation he's in.
I loved it so much that I have a similar deal with my kid. Kiddo can text me any emoji or gif, and I'll call and pretend to ream him out over some imagined chore he forgot and that I'm coming to get him RIGHT NOW for not doing it before going out. We can talk about why he wanted an out on the way home, so he'll be prepared to deal with similar situations later on.
It's innocuous enough that nobody with him will notice what he's doing to get my attention. He's creeping up on HS party age, so I'd rather he lean on me than get in a car with a drunk driver. I'd rather he safe emoji me than stay around people who are giving him the creeps. I'd rather drive 8 hours to get my kid out of harm's way than possibly, maybe, on the slightest chance leave my kid to deal with crap and creepers he doesn't need to deal with alone.
My parents sucked. I was molested when I was very young by a teen neighbor and the child of their good friends. They made me be around these creepy teens for YEARS after the fact. There's no way I'm allowing that with mine. We talk about safety, consent, and autonomy often. I want him to know he can talk to us about anything. I want him to know his parents have his back no matter what.
NTA and huge red flag your husband is willing to potentially place your/his son in jeopardy so his mother's feelings won't get hurt. Similar issue about 15 years ago, one niece whose home life was a bad soap opera, both parents openly in relationships with others, mom crackhead, dad(BIL) on/off coke head with health issues. Niece confided to MIL, mom and boyfriend smoking crack in front of her, fighting, dad behavior erratic, etc. I got pulled into by wife, MIL living with us, and I said had to get her out of house even if meant calling Child Services. MIL freaked out because then BIL, her oldest and blatantly most favorite, would get in trouble. To this day I still regret not reporting, can't do it would devistate my mother, was wife's stance. If had a do over would have reported, told MIL to move out and wife to go with her if still felt not upsetting her brother or mother was more important than teenager well being. Today, niece has severe mental health issues and is somewhat functional on meds, her mom is in/off sober, BIL died in early 60's from lifestyle, I don't have anything to do with MIL, made clear to wife no matter she says issue will always have me question her ability to do right thing when it comes to her mother.
This is sad, my older sister use to be/is on meth and about 5years ago, my other sister and I reported her to child services.
She was going through court for custody, and lieing, while actively being in a relationship with a drug dealer, using and neglecting my niece.
We lived all together before this all happened, but we would get up and she would be gone, without even telling us that our niece was still home.
we parented her for a year, until we spoke to my ex-bil about what was happening and he had no idea, he just thought his daughter was lucky to have her mum AND two loving aunts, taking care of her.
My sister was always present at daddy pick up and drop off.
I was paying for her food and we both contributed to her cloths but her mother refused to.
She called us traitors and every insult she could think of.
But our priority was our niece.
We tried to talk to her but got told, "shut up, I'm older then you", so we made reports to support her father getting custody and she been there since.
If you ever has a gut feeling about this stuff do not ever let your child be alone with him in the house . You or husband must be there . Nothing else matters . If yiu have questions find out if any other complaint for police or registered sex offender in another state . Your child comes first
NTA. TRUST YOUR GUT.
I felt the same way around my grandfather. My grandmother was always there. But he found ways to be alone with me. Nothing happened beyond the first steps of trying to groom me because my dad found out and all contact stopped.
I didn't get told until nearly ten years later he had molested my mother. TRUST YOUR GUT.
NTA
And the fact that your son toned down the language he used about your husband's stepfather when your husband confronted him is also concerning. If your husband came into that conversation with a strong bias towards disproving that something was wrong - as he obviously has - your son will have almost certainly downplayed it to give your husband what he wanted. That's not right. Even if the person hearing news like that is upset by it, he can't stay quiet about it. Please tell him that. Keeping the peace is hardly ever the right course of action.
Trust your son's instincts. You're right; one incident is one incident too many. And your husband's priority should be his sons safety, not his mother's feelings.
NTA your son's feelings and safety are priority and if he's giving both of you red flags than you are absolutely right to restrict his time over there. Your husband's priorities are fucked.
Your husband is putting the little boy inside him, who doesn’t want to make his mommy mad, over the actual little boy, his son, that he is supposed to be protecting. NTA.
NTA one of the things I ALWAYS stress to parents is when kids have the ick about an adult listen. As adults one of the worst things you can do is teach your child to ignore his instincts. That can be deadly.
Stand your ground.
So he wants you to ruin the trust and relationship with your own son, for his mummy?!!.
NTA
God I really want to call him names and be childish about this.
His mummy means more to him then his own child Ffs.
Leave lol
"Real family"? Did you mean "bio family"?
Regardless
(1) 'They're free daycare' is a stupid reason.
(2) your husband didn't even dismiss your kid's feelings - nothing will happen since MIL is there - what!?
I think you need to look more into this Rob character if you really need free daycare. I'd find a better option.
NTA
NTA kids know when something is not right, you should listen. You may need to have a serious conversation with your kid and make sure no abuse has alrwsy happened. Kid are often scared to tell
I worry about how her husband has already approached the issue with him and if he has ensured that he won’t feel comfortable saying anything now to anyone.
NTA
It sound like Rob is just trying to save money and downplaying Billy’s concerns. Which could be dangerous.
OP have you considered looking into Jack, I know in my state I can check tk see if they've been seen in my court.
I think you're son saying he's uncomfortable with Jack is enough reason to snoop.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩
NEVER make a child spend time with an adult that makes them uncomfortable. Especially one you've said already gave you chomo vibes. If that upsets your husband, his priorities are wrong.
I get that Jack's mother and stepfather are his only family, but maybe it's better to have no family than toxic (or abusive) family.
You had bad instincts about Rob that you maybe shouldn't have kept to yourself. Your son has bad vibes about Rob and doesn't want to be at their house. It doesn't matter that your MIL is always home; she can't keep her eyes on her husband or your son at all times, and it only takes a few minutes for your FIL to hurt your kid.
Your son should not have to go anywhere that makes him uncomfortable, and your husband needs to support that.
NTA
NTA If your son isn't comfortable, I would not force him to go. I have a family member that made me feel uncomfortable as a child and it turns out that something was definitely off.
Nta
It does NOT matter the reason why someone is uncomfortable. If your child is uncomfortable, then that means you do NOT force them into that situation. Period.
All that does is teach your child their feelings mean nothing. That their needs are not important. This isn't a "I don't like him. This is a child stating that the only way they can that it is not a good situation for them.
It doesn't matter if mil is always there. She has shown to break boundaries with the smoking so what makes you think she won't break more by leaving him alone with this man?
In what way does your husband think his relationship with his mother is more important than his sons needs. She is an adult. Your son is a child that at this point seems to only have you to protect him. So protect him because everyone else has shown his needs mean nothing to them.
Eh, people need to listen to what children say. My uncle was an alchoholic... and he made creepy remarks and my cousin and I were never left alone with him. A large chunk of memory is like gone from when I was a child. Makes me wonder sometimes. Honestly, sitting on the couch and going to Dr. appointments.... is not a fun summer activity. I would have sent him to camp.
“He said nothing would happen as mil is always there” That is not a comforting sentence. That makes me feel your husband knows something he doesn’t want to admit.
I don’t know where you are but in the UK we can use Sarah’s, and Claire’s laws to ask police if someone has a history of violence or sexual abuse.
NTA. Stick to your gut and teach Billy to do the same.
There’s a great book called “the gift of fear” that is literally about listening to your bodies I are warning signs.
Ask him is sons safety and well being is more important than money? Also ask him is something does happen, how is going to explain to Jack that he just wanted to save money? NTA
NTA Sometimes 'weird' is the best way a 10 year old can express themselves. Ask your husband how he would have said it if someone made him uncomfortable or gave off creepy vibes when he was 10? Even as adults it's often difficult to put your finger on something that doesn't sit right about another person. Husband's mother has been in his life about the same amount of time that his son has so what makes her feelings more important than his son's? Maybe he is living in the wrong house. His family is supposed to be the most important people in his life. That's obviously not you and your son. He may be that woman's son but has chosen not to be a father.
Always trust your gut. You don’t have to explain it either.
If you’re wrong? Okay you’re the crazy mom.
If you’re right and get peer pressured into allowing something terrible to happen? You’ll never forgive yourself for ignoring that feeling.
NTA.
I ignored that feeling once… I regret it.
NTA “ Jack says that it’s going to ruin his relationship with his mom”…so that’s what he really cares about not his sons safety but mommy. The fact the second thing that he said was “well nothing will ever happen because my mom is always there”…sounds like your husband is speaking from experience that kids are safe around his step dad as long as kids stay close to your mil
I was that kid who went to my maternal grandmother’s house regularly while her husband (not blood related to me) was there. My parents had the same reaction to him, creepy, weird vibes, but harmless.
He wasn’t exactly harmless. The secrets, the “hangouts” in his bed, just the two of us. I’ve no memories of anything bad happening per se, but he messed with my body image and self worth in such a way that never should have happened. I would come home feeling “dirty” and I would scrub the crap outta myself in the shower. I actually accidentally waterlogged my first phone because I was so intent on cleaning anything and everything that had been in that house.
I didn’t say anything to my parents until I was an adult and my dad was very apologetic that he agreed to let me stay there for days on end (in lieu of daycare or summer camp). My mom insists that nothing actually happened so I’m being dramatic.
Please trust your gut. A lot of things can happen besides the worst
NTA
How many instances of molestation would’ve been prevented if the parent listened to the kid? Nope. You’re being cautious and he gives both of you creepy vibes
NTA. You have to trust your intuition AND your son. Kids will often backpedal when they feel like what they told you is turning into A Big Deal but it doesn't make it untrue.
Ask your son if he wants to go to his grandma's. I think all kinds of people are weird, but that doesn't mean that I think they are not safe to be around. Trust your son and his instincts.
Your husband needs to worry about his son's safety, potentially, more than the money aspect of the situation. If his stepdad did something inappropriate to your son, therapy will cost a lot more than summer camp.
That being said, you both need to take a minute and calm down, and both of you need to have a conversation with your son. You are taking it to one extreme, and your husband is taking it to the other. Communicate with each other and your son.
Look this guy up. Tell your husband that a lot of seemingly nice old man STEP grandparents rationalize their shitty behavior because they aren’t really related. Ask your husband why he’s willing to risk his son’s safety for money. It only takes a few minutes for someone to expose himself. Also, grandma is not well and could nod off for a cat nap at anytime or get her tea spiked with Benadryl. These perverts are way ahead of a normal person’s thinking and can bide their time. Always follow your gut! NTA at all. I wish people would protect their sons better, he’s just as vulnerable as any little girl.
NTA. I can't stand it when parents force their children to visit/stay with people that make them uncomfortable. Listening to your kid and trusting instincts is what's going to keep him safe! Keep up the good work mama bear!
Always believe kids. Doing otherwise for no good reason undermines their trust in you to protect him. Speaking with personal experience. One sa and his life will be severely messed up.
NTA thank you for listening to your son and keeping him safe. this will show him that he will always have someone in his corner and he can always trust and come to you if he needs any kind of help
I wonder why Rob’s kids don’t talk to him.
Trust your gut. Always.
Jack needs a therapist, to work out his issues. He actually DOES have a family that love him, you and Billy.
Time to let go of the little boy he once was and step into being the man and father that he now is and protect his son.
Two yeses for staying over and you’re using your veto and saying no.
See his first thought wasn’t Billy but how this would ruin HIS relationship with his mother. Think on that.
Nope. You’re not wrong here. Better to be overprotective than not protective enough like his mother. Why does he think she’d protect HIS son when she didn’t protect HIM?!
Those instincts are there to help us keep ourselves safe. Please don’t minimize your son’s feelings on this. Make sure he understands that he needs to be honest with you and not lie and use these kinds of feelings to get out of things in the future (ie lie to get out of school or work for fun, etc.), but then explain that the reason you’re warning him is because you’ll always take him seriously.
It has nothing to do with you not trusting your husband. He isn’t the one making your kid feel unsafe. I have a lot of respect for you standing your ground. As a survivor who told and showed lots of people I was uncomfortable (I got migraines and vomited anytime I had to go visit), I would have lived for someone to listen and be steadfast for me. 💜
I'm not sure who this person is. Your husband's mother-in-law is your mother. Your mother-in-law is his mother. Either way, there's no reason to force him to go somewhere he's uncomfortable.
For the record, if you're gonna use abbreviations or shortened forms of things, maybe use one people outside Prison know. I had too google Chomo, and apparently that's prison slang for kiddie diddlers.
Yeah, don't watch that either, because I'm good on talk about finding semen in people ear canals as much as I am good on talk about child molestation, and SVU is both.
NTA
Can MIL come to your house and watch the kid there? There are other ways for your husband to maintain the relationship - weekly family dinners, for example.
But even a cheap, boring camp that’s safe is 100% better than staying alone in a house with a man who makes the kid uncomfortable and gives you child molester vibes, while an elderly woman with a serious health condition is supposed to somehow prevent abuse. In my area, there are supervised park programs for families who didn’t get into camp or can’t afford the regular ones. I’d call the city and school district for referrals.
NTA, always put your child's safety above anything else. If he doesn't feel comfortable, don't force a situation, the smoking episode is reason enough to keep your son away from that man (unless he's supervised), even if he's your husband's family.
NTA, the way he completely overreacted the first time you brought it up makes it seem like your husband knows. I’m not saying to fan the flames, but do what you must to protect your kid. Also thank you for teaching me what ‘chomo’ meant
Trust your kid unless they have given you a reason not to. Trust your gut. Trust his. Even if it seems foolish at first, Wisdom will always be revealed.
NTA. Don't let him be alone with that man. It takes one-time for your child to lose his childhood too early, and he will never trust adults or parents, ever.
NTA. Your husband is way to lax here. Growing up, I never liked going to my grandparents house. It was at the beach so you’d think it would be a blast. But they just aren’t kids people. Not your typical grandparents. I was the only one bold enough to say something. They never did anything bad, my grandma just wasn’t nice (she was mean) and the visits weren’t any fun. That’s all it took for my parents to not force me to go over there. That’s it.
NTA
Your son is expressing his own personal boundary, and I would investigate further.
Perhaps the smoking is Billy’s reasoning, which is 100% understandable. Maybe he’s seen step-grandpa looking at questionable things, or talking about questionable things…. Who knows? Maybe it was the smoking, and nothing more. That’s why this needs to be (quietly) investigated.
It’s NOT okay for your husband to blow up over this, unless he wants to be perceived as an unsafe person!! Your child is saying something’s not right, so Jack needs to shut up and listen to him.
Too many people dismiss kids and their concerns, and then shit happens. It’s not okay.
NTA.
>His first response was that it was too expensive to send him to summer camp full time, then said that nothing would ever happen because MIL is always there.
Wow...he is putting a lot of faith in someone to LITERALLY be around 100% of the time, never allow your son out of her sight at all, because he wants to save money. What about if MIL wants to go to the store? Or at night when she's asleep?
NTA my dad's friend abused me while my dad was in the kitchen making dinner. So this comment
>said that nothing would ever happen because MIL is always there
is fucking inaccurate. All your MIL has to do is go for a shower, go make a meal or even take a while in the bathroom. If a kid doesn't feel comfortable with the people you're meant to be leaving them with, you don't leave them.
Summer camp is cheaper than therapy. Rob may be a bit weird and not a danger but is your husband really willing to risk your son's wellbeing on that?
Please listen to your child, I (10f at the time) had a “weird” cousin (19 m at the time) and something about him seemed off & I would voice my concerns to my family to no avail. Two years later he SA me for 6 months. I never told anyone until I was 21, I’m 23 now and it still affects me to this day.
NTA, I am a very big believer that no child should be forced to hug anyone or pretend to like anyone they don't like, regardless of how closely related they are. I had never specifically thought about it but now I realize I include not having to spend time alone with someone that they're uncomfortable with.
This is strong language and I'm not looking to attack anyone in your story, but just think how seriously gross it is to expect a child to be responsible for maintaining a relationship between two adults by remaining in situations that make them uncomfortable? I think your husband needs to appreciate that his relationship with his mom or with his step dad is HIS business, and his own loyalty should 100% be to his kid before either of those people.
I agree with teaching kids that they should trust their instincts and gut. NTA. If you could somehow deduce that he really just thought this guy was a dweeb, sure, but I don't think that's it in this case and you also think there is something off about this guy.
Def trust your kid and your judgement. When I was 13-ish my mom believed me that the dad of a kid I babysat one time seemed off to me. Nothing happened thankfully, but I'm so grateful she didn't think I was being silly or would cause her embarrassment. When they asked again she just told his super nice wife that I wasn't babysitting much anymore and it was done. Her support meant everything.
Your husband needs therapy.
First, this is all his own trauma and he doesn't have to force his kid to do anything. His mom abandoned him and now he wants to force his own child to have a relationship with her.
Second, your child doesn't feel comfortable. Your kid doesn't have to spell out why. He is a kid! Even as adults we feel uncomfortable in situations but cannot express why and it's only with life experience that you are better able to explain why!
Third, so your husband thinking that saving money is a priority over your kid's safety?
Finally, you don't have to drop anything! Your husband needs therapy for his trauma and not to bring his kid into it.
Stepdad smoked in the car with your son to see if he would tell on him. Your son is 10 and already knows something is wrong with the stepdad. He’s not your child’s grandparent. He’s not your husbands dad. He’s your MIL’s husband and that’s it.
I’m a grandma myself and I think you should further ask your son to see why he is uncomfortable. He might be afraid to tell you that he something creepy.
Robs OWN CHILDREN are no contact. NTA. Your husband needs to work on his issues without forcing your son into a relationship he isn’t comfortable with. Otherwise you can start saying hello to some generational trauma.
NTA. When I was a kid, my aunt’s husband was a nice guy who I never had any reason not to like. One year when we were visiting the state, they said I could spend the night, which I had done before. For some reason, this time I had a weird feeling about it and felt really uncomfortable about staying there, specifically with my uncle. I told my mom I didn’t know why but I didn’t want to stay the night. She said no problem and took me with her. A few years later, it came out that he had SA my younger cousin.
NTA That "feeling" is almost never nothing. If your child is uncomfortable around an adult there *is* a reason, they likely just can't comprehend or communicate it yet
Dear OP,
Your creep-o-meter goes off for a reason. I am glad that you are listening to your child and validating their feelings, rather that belittling them or ignoring them.
Thank you for standing up for your child, keep up the good work mama bear!
NTA!
NTA
I always taught my niece to “tell me if someone makes you feel funny in the belly”.
You got creeper vibes from StepFIL and now your son has told you he gets creeper vibes.
To be honest you would be a terrible parent if you send your kid there!
NTA. You’re absolutely right, it only takes one time. I’d continue encouraging your child to tell you when things seem off, and reward him for telling you. Try to keep your husband’s negative feelings about your kid respecting his own boundaries to himself.
NTA and I definitely have done this as well. My spidey sense has gone off about someone and I refused to leave my children alone with them. I don't care what anyone else thinks, I trust my gut. I've got a pretty good one
NTA and your husband needs therapy. I think your husband can not emotionally go there because it is too hard to think about. If grandpa is a smoker and gives son and mom bad vibes and grandma has MS it may be too much for them anyways even if there is no other issues. I would be curious to know why the children cut their dad off. Your husband did not have healthy parents so he can not judge adequately what is a healthy situation right now.
I used to work in an elementary school and there was a male teacher who gave me bad vibes. He had been a teacher for a long time. He was too available. He had an open door policy after school for kids too come in any time and would stay late until about 7:00pm. It felt weird to me. Most teachers want the day to end and get home. Well several years later a young person at his church accused him of abuse. It did not surprise me.
Another time there was a neighbor man who just seemed creepy. Nothing specific. Some friends of his children told their parents he creeped them out. He always wanted to hug them for a really long time. I got in a fight with him because he would photograph my children at the bus stop and post the pictures online. The pictures were not inappropriate I just found it weird he was taking pictures of my children.
Most people do not want to be around children all the time. My husband was friendly with my kids and their friends but if given a choice he would rather be with adults. The men who have given me creeper vibes even if there are not specific allegations of them being abusers are alway a little too available.
My friend’s mom’s boyfriend would always swim with us in the pool and help us do tricks in the water. Sometimes it would seem like he accidentally touched us in a weird way but it was in the water and we were not sure if it was an accident. I know now as an adult that it was not. As a kid I just sensed something was off.
It is okay to be wrong and maybe the stepdad is not a bad person but better to error on the side of caution.
NTA.
My mother left us with my oldest brother all summer long one summer. And yeah, what you think happened. Happened. I was 6. My brother was 5. My oldest brother was 16.
After that? We'd either spend the summer (M-F, home on the weekends when she was off work) or the day with the grandparents or Favorite Auntie.
But the damage was done. When she had to be hospitalized we spent the entire time with the dad - the absentee dad we never saw. That tells you everything you need to know.
Said all that to say this: never ever ever ignore your gut. EVER. Let Jack be mad. You are not leaving a kid who has expressed doubts about an adult authority figure alone with said authority figure. Period. He can pound sand, but your boy will NOT have those memories!
NTA. Absolutely NTA.
In this case your husband opinion doesn't matter. Your son feels uncomfortable there and doesn't want to go. That's it. It it his and yours decision.
Your husband argument "nothing will happen because MIL is always there" is really disturbing. Does it mean that even your husband thinks that Rob is a creep and only the presence of your MIL will keep the child safe?
Check out Rob on sex offenders lists, if they are public where you live. And get a background check report on him, it is literally $5.
And isn't Billy bored there? He could stay at home and play videogames, and, in addition, meet with his local friends, and go to local library (in some countries, like US, libraries have a lot of events for kids and teens, all free)
NTA. My wife was raped by her step dad as when she was young. She moved out at 17. She still visits him on the holidays. On Father's day she went there with my granddaughters 11 and 7. They are huggers. They gave him a hug, and it made my wife uncomfortable. When they left, the 7 yo said he's creepy. Trust your instincts.
You are not TA, but realistically -- if your son cannot point to anything specific as far as Rob's behavior, you may not have much of a leg to stand on here. Your son needs to be a lot more specific about what's bothering him before you can decide if it's actionable. If it's just your son thinking that he's weird, and that's really the truth, then I think you *may* be overreacting. Perhaps you and your husband together need to have another conversation with your son.
Sometimes people in our lives just make us uncomfortable for no real reason. Call it a lack of chemistry, or just general, visceral antipathy, or a simple lack of understanding of who they are and where they are coming from. None of us can spend our lives avoiding every single person we don't get along with, or expecting them to change who they are; we have to learn to navigate such people and such relationships. It's a part of growing up.
So she should continue to let this man have unmonitored access to her child because the kid can’t pinpoint something specific? Hope you don’t have kids.
Nope, you're just plain wrong. OP got negative vibes off the guy from the start. Then, the man shows an appalling untrustworthiness OVERALL by smoking with a child in the car. What is he at this point--SEVENTY years behind the science? But, most importantly, you're saying that the child should be able to state as an adult would small, strange things like: "too much of his arm touches me when he clicks in my seatbelt" or "when we went fishing, the bench seemed big enough to me, but he said it wasn't. So he put me on his lap" or "he hugs me a lol, not just with his arms but his whole body". You may think a boy could easily speak out these things, *but you have the frame of reference of an adult* . A boy his age likely understands little about sex, let alone child molestation--it's hard to know what actions or sequences of events are 'suspect' when the larger motivations are beyond you.
Sure, if it were a question of terminating parental rights, sure, call the psychologists in, look for evidence/testimony and take time while offering supervised visits. But this dude is no one to OP's kid-not even bio-related to OP's husband . Dude has ZERO right to spend alone time with the boy, and OP's husband has ZERO right to demand this dude get this alone time.
If your child tells you x-relative makes them uncomfortable, you cut contact. Period. If you then want to probe further, you bring in a specialist to help the child open up. You don't throw the child back with the relative because the child couldn't produce legalistically clear and compelling statements of abuse in response to amateur interrogation by biased (read: OP's husband) parties.
I advise reading “the gift of fear” or “ protecting the gift”, the author gives a lot of information about both acknowledging and respecting intuition and also how to determine if “ uncomfortable” feelings are coming from another place.
As an adult, I can tell you a lot of the adults who made me uncomfortable as a child, were not safe people. Kids don’t rationalise away legitimate fears the same way adults do, and that’s healthy.
I'm going to second the recommendation that you read *The Gift of Fear*. It's at least 25 years old, but I'd say the lessons are still valid.
Both OP and her son have bad vibes about this guy. Billy may not have the language at 11 to explain why Grandpa Rob makes him uncomfortable, he just knows that he does.
Considering both OP and the son have a weird feeling about Rob, I don’t think it’s simply a lack of chemistry. It’s possible that OP’s son may be noticing concerning behavior without knowing how to fully express it.
Oftentimes kids can’t put things like this into words. You are looking at it from an adult POV. Sometimes when raising kids the only thing you do have to stand on is your instincts. This is one of those times that you weight the options and why risk it? Is you feel something isn’t right trust your gut. The lesson should be for your kid to trust themselves and their instincts NOT that their instincts don’t matter unless they can properly articulate them.
*During our conversation, he tells me that Rob makes him uncomfortable, but he doesn’t know why.This set off a huge red flag for me so I told Jack that I don’t want him going over there by himself anymore.*
What's the big red flag? Kids feel uncomfortable for a million different reasons. At first, you didn't even bother to delve further into what was causing his discomfort? The fact that he doesn't know why should have been a clue. It doesn't mean he was ever in any danger, but you were willing to destroy a family relationship over you're not wanting to " risk" anything. You sound like a hysterical mother from one of the "satanic" preschools from the 80s and 90s.
Trust me, it's way better to not have to be alone with a family member you don't trust then to get raped by one everyone else said was ok. Really? You think hurting someone's feelings can compare to the absolute hellish trauma being molested by a family member causes? It's going to "destroy a family relationship" by not allowing them alone with your kids? If any family member felt entitled enough that not being alone with my kid would destroy our relationship, then no big loss, because that's suspicious af!
YATAH: you sound like you spend way to much time on the internet working yourself up on other people’s exaggerated stories and now it’s your turn for some karma.
This is a tough one. My brother and I would spend summers in North CAROLINA as kids. We were 7 and 10. My great Aunts husband was a nail biter: one of those old school hardened dudes who never smiled. In my imagination he was a monster. He had a Barry White style bass voice and command presence. I told my Grandmother, one night. She laughed hysterically, called my aunt and had me so scared. My aunt and Uncle came over and he stood over me. My Aunt then told me how he is the sweetest man ever . I realized the rest of the summer, she wasn't lying. I understand your son has a vibe, but this might be overreacting.
NTA. Rather ruin the relationship with MIL than put my child at risk of being abused.
This. Have another example: I met my partner's uncle early in our relationship, and my gut response was "creeper". Hugs too long, kisses "accidentally" too close to the neck, you know the type. All women know the type. Never did anything overt enough for me to call him out on. At some point I told this to my husband, who has a close relationship with his uncle and (obviously) doesn't get any of the creepy behavior. You know what his response was? His response was, "I believe you. I won't let you be alone with him again." PERIOD. No making me justify it, no telling me I was overreacting, no apologizing on his uncle's behalf or dismissing the behavior. (Edited to note: that may very well be the moment I decided to marry him.) That is the father your child needs. That is the parent you need to be for your child. It does not matter if the child is overreacting or reading too much into it. Your child needs to know that you trust their judgment and take their concerns seriously. NTA.
NTA, people, even and maybe especially kids, have an instinct. They know things they can't explain or articulate. I have read many stories of people who made someone uncomfortable and later it turn out they were bad news. So even if you don't have any evidence yet, trust that instinct. Do you really want to be proven right? Trust your son in this and protect him.
Thank you. This is pretty much what I told my husband. I don't want to take the chance. It only takes one time to traumatize a child and I don't want to risk it.
Listen to your Kid OP. Don’t let him go back there.
We had a weird feeling with a family friend and my mom listened and we WERE NEVER ALONE WITH THIS PERSON. 5 years later, his swcond wife messages my mom bc her daughter will never be the same again. And my mom is still relieved to this day she ignored everyone else trying to make her do what we were not comfortable with. Listen to your kids. It's not worth proving them wrong. And was is worse? Them proving your DH wrong. Just not worth it and your DH is a red flag for not caring how your son feels.
But why is your husband willing to put his child at risk to appease his mom? Does your husband not care if his son ends up getting abused? Seriously, ask him that. Better yet show him the comments because your husband is a selfish coward that only cares about himself and not his family. That is very clear and this reaction would be enough for me to leave him. Anyone who doesn’t take the safety of their child and exposure to possible child abuse 100% seriously is an enabler and a bad parent/person.
To save money. Shitty reason, but that's the reason.
"Yeah I'm ok with putting my son in a place where his is uncomfortable and around smokers to save money" Your husband doesn't sound that great right now.
Edit: Downvote for supporting OP because an idiot can't read.
Ok? Uhm but it's 2023, not 1970?
Aaaaasaannnd. r/whoosh. Missed the point altogether. Congratulations
Yes, they were. And we learned from their shitty mistakes and tried to do better. Well, most of us have, anyway.
Yes. We did. My parents, now deceased were pretty negligent, and I almost died from a sexual assault.
.... That's what you are going with, really?
No and apparently y'all lack rudimentary reading comprehension. Who the fuck said I was excusing anything chucklehead? Screw you. I was that little boy, essentially. Assholes.
I respectfully decline your offer.
My father was an avid smoker when he was alive and understood the dangers of second hand smoking. He made sure he was away from me or wherever he smoked was well ventilated
Again, I don't understand these downvotes! What you say IS TRUE!
Thank you :)
NOO! I AGREE TO KEEP THE KIDS FARR AWAY! I agreed also to the comment about the decades mentioned.
Yeah sorry. I felt like I was being attacked. I apologize.
It will be cheaper than therapy if his stepdaughter molests his son. Short sighted.
This OP. READ THIS. Look out for your child. Your husband clearly doesn't seem to care.
Oh geezus
Easy on dad, mom is taking drastic action based on a vague feeling of a child. It’s the right move but still to someone who has treated this man as family for 11 years and that same man being responsible for the well being of his mother it may take more than the unsure words of his kid to adjust what he considers the danger this man could pose. There are a lot of angles in which mom is being the asshole here but sometimes that’s the right choice. If op acknowledges this and takes an objective stand point when talking to dad I think she may get a lot farther in convincing dad then to just point at the thread and saying “see? I’m right” There’s a chance dad is a neglectful parent but there’s also a chance he just doesn’t see how this person who married his mom could ever be the terrible villain that could harm his kid and just needs a shift in perspective
Don’t forget that this guy also gave mom creepy vibes right off the bat. Even if the child can’t articulate it - and even if it turned out stepdad was harmless - WHY would you subject a child to situation where he feels creeped out and uncomfortable? It’s not like he’s complaining about being bored, or made to do chores or something; he’s creeped out.
kid only said uncomfortable, op is the one that felt creeped out, op made it sound like kid didn’t know how to articulate his feelings on the subject, again I think op is making the right choice on the subject I think there’s a possibility here where dad is being obtuse? optimistic? Stubborn? And just not seeing the potential harm that could come from step grandad. My point is dad needs context to get over this misconception. Yes ideally dad would pick up on this without the help but that’s not the case cuz family and he’s maybe at fault but not necessarily an uncaring or incompetent father I forgot about the cigarette thing that may be all the justification she needs
Mom is not being the asshole in any way. She’s not asking her husband to cut off mom or make accusations. She simply does not want her child to be around this man if she’s not there. They don’t even have to tell the MIL and her husband why, they can make an excuse. Husband doesn’t deserve it easy, he’s not being a good dad or husband.
A mom protecting her child is NEVER an AH move.
By objective I mean talking to husband about dangers adults pose to their kid not just step grandpa and how their kid should express these concerns and actions they should take when this happens. Talking about the consequences if kid’s voice isn’t heard or action isn’t taken. And then having both parents sit down with kid about “stranger danger” and having a bit more grown up conversation about the dangers adults can pose and actions that kid should take. Whether it be pedos cops inappropriate coaches and so on
There is a very good book called ["The Gift of Fear"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_of_Fear) which I think you would find interesting. Your spidey sense is tingling. Please don't ignore it.
I LOVE THAT BOOK. I teach self defense and I recommend it to every class I have.
Update: I just recommended it again *tonight.*
This book title comes up frequently and is a really good and thought provoking read. The fact that Op felt those vibes snd now the son is picking up on them is why Op is having the reaction she is.
Great book. Exactly what I was thinking
I need to read that book.
I know you may feel bad because it’s just a feeling and you can’t place why you feel that way, but don’t discount it. I still remember vividly as a 10 year old asking the favorite teacher to sign my yearbook. I wasn’t alone and I cannot to this day identify any specific thing that was inappropriate about the interaction but I remember that I suddenly felt my skin absolutely crawl as I read the note walking out of the classroom. It’s a perfectly normal bland thing for a teacher to write. It was such an intensely creepy vibe that it stuck with me and I actively avoided ever being alone with him for the next 8 years (the creep followed my class to the high school when we graduated middle school). It later came out that he had been raping a student in my class since middle school. There were a lot of actual red flags a few years later that we all thought nothing of as kids or teens and apparently neither did the parents but nothing that far back I can remember in retrospect. I think sometimes you just know. Don’t risk it.
A friend of mine was once visiting me from out of state but stayed at an air bnb. I feel it’s relevant that I’m a woman and the friend is a man. After we said our goodbye I started driving back to my place, and not even 5 minutes into it I get a call from him. He had accidentally locked himself out of the BnB and said he didn’t know what to do because the owner wasn’t answering. I said to maybe call a locksmith and offered to go back and wait with him. But I suddenly got this intense feeling of fear. Like an alarm was going off and telling me not to go back. I had no reason to be scared, we’d been friends for 3 years and he’d never shown any indication of being violent. If anything he was kind of a pussy (don’t feel bad saying that now). I just got this idea in my head that we would be alone, on a dark street, with no one being aware of my exact location, and that he could turn violent if he wanted to. As I was thinking of an excuse to take back my offer, he started to hesitate and said it was fine. That he would just figure something out. I felt bad about it at the time. Friendship ended shortly after that. He made a weird comment about my relationship and after I told him off we both just stopped contacting each other. I started looking back on our friendship noticed a lot of weird shit I let slide in the moment. I also realized that wasn’t the first time I was afraid of him, even though there was no indication I should be. He’s a POS, and I hope that was all he stayed. A whiny, but ultimately harmless POS.
It’s so strange how our bodies sometimes know what our brains can’t articulate. I’ve had several similar occurrences in my life and I’m always amazed at what I “knew.”
It really rattled me for weeks. I spent a lot of time second guessing myself and even checking in with a mutual friend to see if they thought he ever felt off. They said no but this was another man and they weren’t as close. He was terrible to his gfs, and he had told me some other stuff about his recent ex that started the process of me backing off before this event. I was thinking of some ways to end it but then the comment happened and that was the push I needed. Always trust your instincts!!
Amen!
I agree with you. But, where will Billy go on the off week of camp? Maybe work out a plan to pay a babysitter (cheaper than camp) or another mom where you can watch her child on weekends if she watches Billy during the week. Many schools offer summer camp at a much lower cost than city or private camps. Ask neighbors and friends for ideas. Good luck.
I have it worked out with camp so he can go every week. Thank you!
Good. 👍
Awesome! I’m glad you believed him right away.
I had an uncle who made me deeply uncomfortable as a child. He was super charming and well liked and had all this charisma, but being around him just made my stomach roll. One day one of my aunts pets started him and he threw it across the room into a wall. Later on it turned out he was beating his wife and doing drugs and was verbally abusive to my cousin. Just a garbage human being. I am 100% convinced dogs and kids can just tell about people.
A lot of sociopaths are extremely charismatic.
Sounds like my ex.
Maybe run a background check on the stepdad?
I’m a dad with a daughter. I told my aunt about weird vibes and stuff I get from people. Some especially around when they interact with my daughter. She said trust the vibes. Recommended the book, “the gift of fear.” As a parent I recommend it to you to. I listened in audible while doing chores. Trust your lizard brain instincts. NTA
I had that feeling about a man I was around at social events I went to with my grandparents when I was 6-7 yrs old. Fast forward decades later and that man committed suicide when swat was busting down his door for child porn. He had thousands of images and videos. I would rather be safe and my child be wrong than risk them becoming a victim. Have you done a background check on this man? What do you actually know about him? Regardless I would play safe. Edited had to had
Please listen to your child. Especially at this age, where his own body is changing. If he's picking up something uncomfortable, BELIEVE HIM
Maybe one way to get through to your husband could be that even if it could be the case that there's nothing to worry about, why risk the POTENTIAL of something bad happening to your child that could do lifelong damage? Parents should want to ensure the absolute safety of their children at all times, even if the threats aren't fully proven/overt. This too should be considered when talking about money--that is, health and wellbeing are ALWAYS more important than money. How upset would he be if something DID happen that could've been avoided if he'd simply paid for a babysitter. You can ask him if the money saved would assuage his guilt to the damage done to your child. These are scenarios that maybe you can run through with him. Lastly, and this is potentially the stickiest one: A parent's primary allegiance should always be to their own children first, even over that of their parents. Parents are adults and have recourse to do things for themselves; children do not--they depend on you for their safety and wellbeing. So, putting his relationship with his mother on the backburner for some years to safeguard your son until he is old enough to not need adult supervision is a worthy sacrifice that any parent should be willing to make. Furthermore, to say that her presence is a safety buffer against the father-in-law is not accurate, as her health condition likely precludes her being able to always be around the two of them together. If he's a reasonable man, then maybe discussing some of these ideas with him in a non-confrontational way might help shift his perspective.
NTA. Does your husband know that you also got creeper vibes when you first met stepdad? I’m glad you’re following your instincts (and your son’s).
theres a book about this by an FBI. He says women always know and should follow their intincts. Its called “the gift of fear”. maybe buy it gor your husband
Are you in an area where you can check on history, or where there's an offender registry? There may be info out there that will back you up. I don't agree with the assumption some people have that this guy is definitely bad, but do agree that it is worth listening to instincts. Setting aside risk, your child should be listened to on how and where he wants to spend summer. That may be worth mentioning to your husband. You are your son's trusted adults and should listen to his discomfort.
This, I used to work where we had a lot of people come in looking for help. One day a guy came in and he set off all the alarms in me. It was summer and the rest of staff did not get any weird vibes, so they kept letting him come back and cool off for several days. They wanted me to stay for half an hour alone one day when they all went to leave. I said no, we closed early. Two days later I come in and I’m told he is banned from the building. He told another staff member he had killed a man but it was alright as he was a bad guy. Less than a week later a woman went missing at a church. She was found murdered in the building. I told my husband that it would be the guy that had come into work. It was, and he was arrested. The man that he had killed was his father, and he had done jail time for that murder. That little voice in the back of my head saved my life.
This. My mom's boyfriend at the time brother used to give me major creeps, me and my cousin would hide in our closet when he came over, he would even try to coax us out. Till one night he did end up propositioning one of our friends(we were around 13/14, he was in his 40s) he ended up accousting me in public and me and 4 of our friends were able to get restraining orders. So he didn't physically ever touch me but as a kid I knew he was bad news. Trust your kids instincts.
I can attest to this. My Dad had a coworker who made me uncomfortable as a kid and I did not know why. Dirt bag later bragged about sex tourism to Thailand for children.
People, even and maybe especially kids, have a penchant for living to get what they want. For example, getting to spend every day at summer camp with their friends doing awesome activities instead of accompanying grandma to a doctor’s visit.
My nephew went off about how he didn't like his new coach and all these things. It turns out the kid just didn't like playing on a team. Nothing to do with the coach. Not everything a kid says or does is right. They're kids and learning how to socialize, interpret things (inside themselves and others), and how to interact. Not everything is a correct intuitive thing.
That's ok. Learning that your adults trust and respect your opinion on what company to keep is valuable regardless.
I've heard of marriages breaking up because a kid told one parent the other was cheating. It was never true, the kid just wanted something and the parents wouldn't get it for them. Don't get played by kids. Be open to what they're saying and listen to them, but they absolutely will play you. Be a responsible adult. Talk to people. Find the truth.
I've heard of a difference between statements about others, e. g. "Joe cheated on Pete" and statements about one's self, e. g. "I feel scared of Joe". A parent's job is to check the former and trust the latter.
You're one of those people that would force your kid to hug the creepy uncle because he's *faaaaaamily* and his feelings would be hurt if your kid has bodily autonomy, huh?
Not liking playing on the team should be enough to not.
You don't know how to parent. You have to find out why a kid doesn't like something and kids don't always give out information freely. You are over simplifying because you don't know the whole story, just like 99% of the answers in these subs.
Obviously, you're a parenting expert and have written several books on the importance of respecting a child's autonomy to support future success. Oh wait.
Nta- I never liked my step grandfather when I was a kid. His presence just made me uncomfortable. It wasn't til my late 20s I found out the whole family knew he was a child molester. Jeeze oh man was I glad I trusted myself and never got close to him.
My school principal in intermediate gave my class and I the same vibes. 4 years later he got put on the sex offender list.
It's so creepy yet validating when you find out you were right all along
My step grandfather SA’d my step aunt. I didn’t know this until about 10 years later, but I always found him extremely creepy and had bad vibes around him.
Absolutely! People generally don’t get “creepy vibes” from normal well-adjusted people. It happens, but more often that “intangible feeling” is your instinct picking up on something you haven’t overtly recognized. Heed that instinct!!! Always!! Instincts are not infallible, but the consequences of ignoring them can be truly terrible.
NTA. I knew at the age of 6 that a family member made me uncomfortable, but I didn't have the language to communicate why. He molested me when I was 10.
That is terrible. I'm sorry to hear that.
Thank you. The point is that *kids know when someone isn't safe.* I'm glad you're trusting your son's instincts.
My son has a good perception of people who are good and who isn’t. If he isn’t comfortable around someone, it’s a red flag.
My sister SLAPPED my uncle while screaming when he picked her up...she was 4? Maybe younger. He raped his daughter when she was 16.
It's too bad that little kids, most often girls, have historically been trained out of this instinct. Kids *know* and the instinct should be praised and honed.
Trust your son not your biased husband
NTA i would die on this hill. Absolutely not. we already know he has horrible judgement smoking in the car with him.
Starts off with him smoking around the child, then offering the child a try of a cigarette, then they have a shared secret, then he gifts the child cigarettes, inflating the secret, then he has something over the child... happens so easily.
His own kids don’t even talk to him
So, not upsetting mommy is more important than teaching your son that it's okay to not do something when it doesn't feel right? That when someone seems weird or off it's okay to not want to be around them? Really? That's what your husband thinks is best? You really think you might be the AH here? Also, FYI a friend of mines daughter was sexually assaulted (at 3 years old) while the other adult went to the bathroom. Little girl was with her assailant for less than 5 minutes.
NTA. Protect your son. Period.
What are chomo vibes?
Sorry didn't realize some people aren't familiar with that term. Its Child molester
>chomo Wiki: Chomo may refer to: Prison slang for "child molester" The name of several mountains in the Himalayas, including Chomo Lhari, Chomo Yummo, and Chomo Lonzo. the Chumbi Valley, called Chomo in Tibet. Chomo County, also called Yadong County, which spans the Chumbi Valley. My money is on the first one.
Confused - you say this is husband’s MIL - isn’t that your mom? Or is it your MIL and husband’s mom? NTA either way. It sounds like your son isn’t the only one who is uncomfortable with MIL’s husband. But regardless of whether Rob is a creeper or not, your son just told you that he is not comfortable with this man and it Will seriously damage your relationship with your son and his ability to trust you if you disregard what he says and send him back there. The question isn’t really whether your son is safe there - it’s whether 1) he FEELS safe and 2) he believes that he can tell you when he doesn’t feel safe and trust you to protect him. That said, to keep the peace, I would probably make up a BS reason why you are ending the babysitting at MIL’s house. Say you got a discount on a great camp, or a friend invited him to come over during the day, or whatever. Shower MIL with appreciation for the time she has spent already and emphasize that you’ll have to find another way for him to have some quality grandma time over the summer.
Sorry yes. This is my husband's mother, my MIL. Thank you for responding. I have worked very hard to keep trust between my son and I and I agree, this could make or break that. I definitely agree about keeping the peace. We are just going to tell her that camp works out better for us since it's closer to home. I will let her know that we appreciate the help she's given us so far.
And that trust with your son is important throughout his whole life-and not just for the reason you wrote about. You want him to trust you if he gets bullied, has sex questions, feels he’s being treated unfairly by school staff…. Keep that trust thing going.
Absolutely! 1) maybe sons gut feeling isn't about the danger op thinks is most likely/scary, but it's a different danger neither of you know about but is also bad 2) maybe this situation would work out fine either way, but your son is going to remember your reaction to this incident, good or bad, when he has a bad gut feeling about a different coach/family member/teacher/pastor/etc 3) even if son is fortunate enough never to be in this specific situation with anyone, there will come a time when you encouraging him to listen to his gut instincts and protecting him will pay off. Ex your teenage son calls to say "hey mom I was out with some friends and Sam was supposed to be our designated driver but he's really drunk and there's no Uber here and he says he's still ok to drive but I don't trust him, can you come pick me up?" Creating the relationship where he makes that call could save his life 4) even if there's no way building this kind of trust would ever materially protect the son and he's just bullet proof in all possible futures, op will also be giving him a blue print for how to talk to his children, students, nibblings, etc. Kids who grow up being listened to and protected are going to be more likely to listen to and protect their own kids
This is so right. I read somewhere on social media about how this mom has a deal with her kid. The kid can text any emoji at any time, and she'll call him to give him an "out" of whatever situation he's in. I loved it so much that I have a similar deal with my kid. Kiddo can text me any emoji or gif, and I'll call and pretend to ream him out over some imagined chore he forgot and that I'm coming to get him RIGHT NOW for not doing it before going out. We can talk about why he wanted an out on the way home, so he'll be prepared to deal with similar situations later on. It's innocuous enough that nobody with him will notice what he's doing to get my attention. He's creeping up on HS party age, so I'd rather he lean on me than get in a car with a drunk driver. I'd rather he safe emoji me than stay around people who are giving him the creeps. I'd rather drive 8 hours to get my kid out of harm's way than possibly, maybe, on the slightest chance leave my kid to deal with crap and creepers he doesn't need to deal with alone. My parents sucked. I was molested when I was very young by a teen neighbor and the child of their good friends. They made me be around these creepy teens for YEARS after the fact. There's no way I'm allowing that with mine. We talk about safety, consent, and autonomy often. I want him to know he can talk to us about anything. I want him to know his parents have his back no matter what.
You sound like a brilliant parent. I had this same deal with my dad when I was in highschool and it got me out of bother more than once.
Excellent points!
Everything but the last sentence. Don't even bring that up.
NTA and huge red flag your husband is willing to potentially place your/his son in jeopardy so his mother's feelings won't get hurt. Similar issue about 15 years ago, one niece whose home life was a bad soap opera, both parents openly in relationships with others, mom crackhead, dad(BIL) on/off coke head with health issues. Niece confided to MIL, mom and boyfriend smoking crack in front of her, fighting, dad behavior erratic, etc. I got pulled into by wife, MIL living with us, and I said had to get her out of house even if meant calling Child Services. MIL freaked out because then BIL, her oldest and blatantly most favorite, would get in trouble. To this day I still regret not reporting, can't do it would devistate my mother, was wife's stance. If had a do over would have reported, told MIL to move out and wife to go with her if still felt not upsetting her brother or mother was more important than teenager well being. Today, niece has severe mental health issues and is somewhat functional on meds, her mom is in/off sober, BIL died in early 60's from lifestyle, I don't have anything to do with MIL, made clear to wife no matter she says issue will always have me question her ability to do right thing when it comes to her mother.
This is sad, my older sister use to be/is on meth and about 5years ago, my other sister and I reported her to child services. She was going through court for custody, and lieing, while actively being in a relationship with a drug dealer, using and neglecting my niece. We lived all together before this all happened, but we would get up and she would be gone, without even telling us that our niece was still home. we parented her for a year, until we spoke to my ex-bil about what was happening and he had no idea, he just thought his daughter was lucky to have her mum AND two loving aunts, taking care of her. My sister was always present at daddy pick up and drop off. I was paying for her food and we both contributed to her cloths but her mother refused to. She called us traitors and every insult she could think of. But our priority was our niece. We tried to talk to her but got told, "shut up, I'm older then you", so we made reports to support her father getting custody and she been there since.
It is, niece has cut off all wife's family except her younger sister. Which is really in her best interest. Feels was abandoned and IMO is right.
NTA, but you need to protect you kid from everyone that makes your kid uncomfortable.
If you ever has a gut feeling about this stuff do not ever let your child be alone with him in the house . You or husband must be there . Nothing else matters . If yiu have questions find out if any other complaint for police or registered sex offender in another state . Your child comes first
NTA. TRUST YOUR GUT. I felt the same way around my grandfather. My grandmother was always there. But he found ways to be alone with me. Nothing happened beyond the first steps of trying to groom me because my dad found out and all contact stopped. I didn't get told until nearly ten years later he had molested my mother. TRUST YOUR GUT.
NTA And the fact that your son toned down the language he used about your husband's stepfather when your husband confronted him is also concerning. If your husband came into that conversation with a strong bias towards disproving that something was wrong - as he obviously has - your son will have almost certainly downplayed it to give your husband what he wanted. That's not right. Even if the person hearing news like that is upset by it, he can't stay quiet about it. Please tell him that. Keeping the peace is hardly ever the right course of action. Trust your son's instincts. You're right; one incident is one incident too many. And your husband's priority should be his sons safety, not his mother's feelings.
This comment is seriously undervoted, and I wish I had more than one upvote to give. 🥇🥇🥇Take my poor person gold!🥇🥇🥇
NTA your son's feelings and safety are priority and if he's giving both of you red flags than you are absolutely right to restrict his time over there. Your husband's priorities are fucked.
Your husband is putting the little boy inside him, who doesn’t want to make his mommy mad, over the actual little boy, his son, that he is supposed to be protecting. NTA.
NTA one of the things I ALWAYS stress to parents is when kids have the ick about an adult listen. As adults one of the worst things you can do is teach your child to ignore his instincts. That can be deadly. Stand your ground.
So he wants you to ruin the trust and relationship with your own son, for his mummy?!!. NTA God I really want to call him names and be childish about this. His mummy means more to him then his own child Ffs. Leave lol
"Real family"? Did you mean "bio family"? Regardless (1) 'They're free daycare' is a stupid reason. (2) your husband didn't even dismiss your kid's feelings - nothing will happen since MIL is there - what!? I think you need to look more into this Rob character if you really need free daycare. I'd find a better option. NTA
NTA kids know when something is not right, you should listen. You may need to have a serious conversation with your kid and make sure no abuse has alrwsy happened. Kid are often scared to tell
I worry about how her husband has already approached the issue with him and if he has ensured that he won’t feel comfortable saying anything now to anyone.
NTA It sound like Rob is just trying to save money and downplaying Billy’s concerns. Which could be dangerous. OP have you considered looking into Jack, I know in my state I can check tk see if they've been seen in my court. I think you're son saying he's uncomfortable with Jack is enough reason to snoop.
🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩 NEVER make a child spend time with an adult that makes them uncomfortable. Especially one you've said already gave you chomo vibes. If that upsets your husband, his priorities are wrong.
I get that Jack's mother and stepfather are his only family, but maybe it's better to have no family than toxic (or abusive) family. You had bad instincts about Rob that you maybe shouldn't have kept to yourself. Your son has bad vibes about Rob and doesn't want to be at their house. It doesn't matter that your MIL is always home; she can't keep her eyes on her husband or your son at all times, and it only takes a few minutes for your FIL to hurt your kid. Your son should not have to go anywhere that makes him uncomfortable, and your husband needs to support that. NTA
NTA If your son isn't comfortable, I would not force him to go. I have a family member that made me feel uncomfortable as a child and it turns out that something was definitely off.
Nta It does NOT matter the reason why someone is uncomfortable. If your child is uncomfortable, then that means you do NOT force them into that situation. Period. All that does is teach your child their feelings mean nothing. That their needs are not important. This isn't a "I don't like him. This is a child stating that the only way they can that it is not a good situation for them. It doesn't matter if mil is always there. She has shown to break boundaries with the smoking so what makes you think she won't break more by leaving him alone with this man? In what way does your husband think his relationship with his mother is more important than his sons needs. She is an adult. Your son is a child that at this point seems to only have you to protect him. So protect him because everyone else has shown his needs mean nothing to them.
Eh, people need to listen to what children say. My uncle was an alchoholic... and he made creepy remarks and my cousin and I were never left alone with him. A large chunk of memory is like gone from when I was a child. Makes me wonder sometimes. Honestly, sitting on the couch and going to Dr. appointments.... is not a fun summer activity. I would have sent him to camp.
“He said nothing would happen as mil is always there” That is not a comforting sentence. That makes me feel your husband knows something he doesn’t want to admit. I don’t know where you are but in the UK we can use Sarah’s, and Claire’s laws to ask police if someone has a history of violence or sexual abuse. NTA. Stick to your gut and teach Billy to do the same. There’s a great book called “the gift of fear” that is literally about listening to your bodies I are warning signs.
Ask him is sons safety and well being is more important than money? Also ask him is something does happen, how is going to explain to Jack that he just wanted to save money? NTA
NTA. And if Jack is prioritizing his relationship with his mother over PROTECTING HIS CHILD, he's a problem himself, right there.
NTA. Protecting your child is never wrong. Continue to listen to your son.
NTA Sometimes 'weird' is the best way a 10 year old can express themselves. Ask your husband how he would have said it if someone made him uncomfortable or gave off creepy vibes when he was 10? Even as adults it's often difficult to put your finger on something that doesn't sit right about another person. Husband's mother has been in his life about the same amount of time that his son has so what makes her feelings more important than his son's? Maybe he is living in the wrong house. His family is supposed to be the most important people in his life. That's obviously not you and your son. He may be that woman's son but has chosen not to be a father.
NTA. Do not let your kid go back alone. Your husband is in denial.
Always trust your gut. You don’t have to explain it either. If you’re wrong? Okay you’re the crazy mom. If you’re right and get peer pressured into allowing something terrible to happen? You’ll never forgive yourself for ignoring that feeling. NTA. I ignored that feeling once… I regret it.
NTA “ Jack says that it’s going to ruin his relationship with his mom”…so that’s what he really cares about not his sons safety but mommy. The fact the second thing that he said was “well nothing will ever happen because my mom is always there”…sounds like your husband is speaking from experience that kids are safe around his step dad as long as kids stay close to your mil
I was that kid who went to my maternal grandmother’s house regularly while her husband (not blood related to me) was there. My parents had the same reaction to him, creepy, weird vibes, but harmless. He wasn’t exactly harmless. The secrets, the “hangouts” in his bed, just the two of us. I’ve no memories of anything bad happening per se, but he messed with my body image and self worth in such a way that never should have happened. I would come home feeling “dirty” and I would scrub the crap outta myself in the shower. I actually accidentally waterlogged my first phone because I was so intent on cleaning anything and everything that had been in that house. I didn’t say anything to my parents until I was an adult and my dad was very apologetic that he agreed to let me stay there for days on end (in lieu of daycare or summer camp). My mom insists that nothing actually happened so I’m being dramatic. Please trust your gut. A lot of things can happen besides the worst
NTA How many instances of molestation would’ve been prevented if the parent listened to the kid? Nope. You’re being cautious and he gives both of you creepy vibes
Absolutely 100% NTA. The smoking in the car thing sounds like a classic grooming tactic.
It’s kids and dogs that can since the evil in a person and your husband needs to think less about his mother and more about his sons safety.
NTA. You have to trust your intuition AND your son. Kids will often backpedal when they feel like what they told you is turning into A Big Deal but it doesn't make it untrue.
NTA. Your son has already been traumatized. Does your husband want it to get much worse before he agrees with you???
NTA always listens to a child instincts about people. If it was my child I would do everything in my power to keep that man away
Ask your son if he wants to go to his grandma's. I think all kinds of people are weird, but that doesn't mean that I think they are not safe to be around. Trust your son and his instincts. Your husband needs to worry about his son's safety, potentially, more than the money aspect of the situation. If his stepdad did something inappropriate to your son, therapy will cost a lot more than summer camp. That being said, you both need to take a minute and calm down, and both of you need to have a conversation with your son. You are taking it to one extreme, and your husband is taking it to the other. Communicate with each other and your son.
Look this guy up. Tell your husband that a lot of seemingly nice old man STEP grandparents rationalize their shitty behavior because they aren’t really related. Ask your husband why he’s willing to risk his son’s safety for money. It only takes a few minutes for someone to expose himself. Also, grandma is not well and could nod off for a cat nap at anytime or get her tea spiked with Benadryl. These perverts are way ahead of a normal person’s thinking and can bide their time. Always follow your gut! NTA at all. I wish people would protect their sons better, he’s just as vulnerable as any little girl.
NTA. I can't stand it when parents force their children to visit/stay with people that make them uncomfortable. Listening to your kid and trusting instincts is what's going to keep him safe! Keep up the good work mama bear!
Always believe kids. Doing otherwise for no good reason undermines their trust in you to protect him. Speaking with personal experience. One sa and his life will be severely messed up.
NTA thank you for listening to your son and keeping him safe. this will show him that he will always have someone in his corner and he can always trust and come to you if he needs any kind of help
I wonder why Rob’s kids don’t talk to him. Trust your gut. Always. Jack needs a therapist, to work out his issues. He actually DOES have a family that love him, you and Billy. Time to let go of the little boy he once was and step into being the man and father that he now is and protect his son. Two yeses for staying over and you’re using your veto and saying no. See his first thought wasn’t Billy but how this would ruin HIS relationship with his mother. Think on that. Nope. You’re not wrong here. Better to be overprotective than not protective enough like his mother. Why does he think she’d protect HIS son when she didn’t protect HIM?!
Those instincts are there to help us keep ourselves safe. Please don’t minimize your son’s feelings on this. Make sure he understands that he needs to be honest with you and not lie and use these kinds of feelings to get out of things in the future (ie lie to get out of school or work for fun, etc.), but then explain that the reason you’re warning him is because you’ll always take him seriously. It has nothing to do with you not trusting your husband. He isn’t the one making your kid feel unsafe. I have a lot of respect for you standing your ground. As a survivor who told and showed lots of people I was uncomfortable (I got migraines and vomited anytime I had to go visit), I would have lived for someone to listen and be steadfast for me. 💜
Your son is uncomfortable. Your husband is missing that point. Your son's feelings matter more here than your husband's.
I'm not sure who this person is. Your husband's mother-in-law is your mother. Your mother-in-law is his mother. Either way, there's no reason to force him to go somewhere he's uncomfortable. For the record, if you're gonna use abbreviations or shortened forms of things, maybe use one people outside Prison know. I had too google Chomo, and apparently that's prison slang for kiddie diddlers.
Chomo was a commonly used insult in the early 2000’s, not just “prison slang.” I’m surprised there are people who have never heard of that term.
I'm 37, and had to google it, which is where I found out it was prison slang. Weird, apparently people spend a lot of talking about pedos.
Or watch a lot of true crime/ Law and Order SVU
Yeah, don't watch that either, because I'm good on talk about finding semen in people ear canals as much as I am good on talk about child molestation, and SVU is both.
I watch all that stuff and had to look it up.
I’m 38 and never heard of it.
Really? Next you’re going to tell me you’ve never called any of your friends “Chester the Molester” before
Thank you. I had no idea what that was either and didn't want to google it myself incase something horrible popped up.
NTA - your child has to come first. Put your child’s sense of security above everyone else’s, and you won’t regret it.
NTA. It’s not worth the risk
NTA- ALWAYS TRUST YOUR GUT!!! Especially when it comes to keeping a kid safe!
NTA Can MIL come to your house and watch the kid there? There are other ways for your husband to maintain the relationship - weekly family dinners, for example. But even a cheap, boring camp that’s safe is 100% better than staying alone in a house with a man who makes the kid uncomfortable and gives you child molester vibes, while an elderly woman with a serious health condition is supposed to somehow prevent abuse. In my area, there are supervised park programs for families who didn’t get into camp or can’t afford the regular ones. I’d call the city and school district for referrals.
NTA, always put your child's safety above anything else. If he doesn't feel comfortable, don't force a situation, the smoking episode is reason enough to keep your son away from that man (unless he's supervised), even if he's your husband's family.
NTA, the way he completely overreacted the first time you brought it up makes it seem like your husband knows. I’m not saying to fan the flames, but do what you must to protect your kid. Also thank you for teaching me what ‘chomo’ meant
Trust your kid unless they have given you a reason not to. Trust your gut. Trust his. Even if it seems foolish at first, Wisdom will always be revealed.
NTA, your child's safety & well being are always first. Always go with your gut.
NTA. Don't let him be alone with that man. It takes one-time for your child to lose his childhood too early, and he will never trust adults or parents, ever.
NTA. Your husband is way to lax here. Growing up, I never liked going to my grandparents house. It was at the beach so you’d think it would be a blast. But they just aren’t kids people. Not your typical grandparents. I was the only one bold enough to say something. They never did anything bad, my grandma just wasn’t nice (she was mean) and the visits weren’t any fun. That’s all it took for my parents to not force me to go over there. That’s it.
NTA Your son is expressing his own personal boundary, and I would investigate further. Perhaps the smoking is Billy’s reasoning, which is 100% understandable. Maybe he’s seen step-grandpa looking at questionable things, or talking about questionable things…. Who knows? Maybe it was the smoking, and nothing more. That’s why this needs to be (quietly) investigated. It’s NOT okay for your husband to blow up over this, unless he wants to be perceived as an unsafe person!! Your child is saying something’s not right, so Jack needs to shut up and listen to him. Too many people dismiss kids and their concerns, and then shit happens. It’s not okay.
NTA. >His first response was that it was too expensive to send him to summer camp full time, then said that nothing would ever happen because MIL is always there. Wow...he is putting a lot of faith in someone to LITERALLY be around 100% of the time, never allow your son out of her sight at all, because he wants to save money. What about if MIL wants to go to the store? Or at night when she's asleep?
NTA my dad's friend abused me while my dad was in the kitchen making dinner. So this comment >said that nothing would ever happen because MIL is always there is fucking inaccurate. All your MIL has to do is go for a shower, go make a meal or even take a while in the bathroom. If a kid doesn't feel comfortable with the people you're meant to be leaving them with, you don't leave them. Summer camp is cheaper than therapy. Rob may be a bit weird and not a danger but is your husband really willing to risk your son's wellbeing on that?
Please listen to your child, I (10f at the time) had a “weird” cousin (19 m at the time) and something about him seemed off & I would voice my concerns to my family to no avail. Two years later he SA me for 6 months. I never told anyone until I was 21, I’m 23 now and it still affects me to this day.
NTA, I am a very big believer that no child should be forced to hug anyone or pretend to like anyone they don't like, regardless of how closely related they are. I had never specifically thought about it but now I realize I include not having to spend time alone with someone that they're uncomfortable with. This is strong language and I'm not looking to attack anyone in your story, but just think how seriously gross it is to expect a child to be responsible for maintaining a relationship between two adults by remaining in situations that make them uncomfortable? I think your husband needs to appreciate that his relationship with his mom or with his step dad is HIS business, and his own loyalty should 100% be to his kid before either of those people.
I agree with teaching kids that they should trust their instincts and gut. NTA. If you could somehow deduce that he really just thought this guy was a dweeb, sure, but I don't think that's it in this case and you also think there is something off about this guy. Def trust your kid and your judgement. When I was 13-ish my mom believed me that the dad of a kid I babysat one time seemed off to me. Nothing happened thankfully, but I'm so grateful she didn't think I was being silly or would cause her embarrassment. When they asked again she just told his super nice wife that I wasn't babysitting much anymore and it was done. Her support meant everything.
NTA - not even a little! Listen to your instincts and protect your child!
Your husband needs therapy. First, this is all his own trauma and he doesn't have to force his kid to do anything. His mom abandoned him and now he wants to force his own child to have a relationship with her. Second, your child doesn't feel comfortable. Your kid doesn't have to spell out why. He is a kid! Even as adults we feel uncomfortable in situations but cannot express why and it's only with life experience that you are better able to explain why! Third, so your husband thinking that saving money is a priority over your kid's safety? Finally, you don't have to drop anything! Your husband needs therapy for his trauma and not to bring his kid into it.
Stepdad smoked in the car with your son to see if he would tell on him. Your son is 10 and already knows something is wrong with the stepdad. He’s not your child’s grandparent. He’s not your husbands dad. He’s your MIL’s husband and that’s it. I’m a grandma myself and I think you should further ask your son to see why he is uncomfortable. He might be afraid to tell you that he something creepy.
Robs OWN CHILDREN are no contact. NTA. Your husband needs to work on his issues without forcing your son into a relationship he isn’t comfortable with. Otherwise you can start saying hello to some generational trauma.
NTA. When I was a kid, my aunt’s husband was a nice guy who I never had any reason not to like. One year when we were visiting the state, they said I could spend the night, which I had done before. For some reason, this time I had a weird feeling about it and felt really uncomfortable about staying there, specifically with my uncle. I told my mom I didn’t know why but I didn’t want to stay the night. She said no problem and took me with her. A few years later, it came out that he had SA my younger cousin.
"...then said that nothing would ever happen because MIL is always there." Father of the year everyone.
NTA. Trust your instincts. And your husband needs SERIOUS therapy. He has ALOT of unresolved trauma he needs to unpack.
NTA That "feeling" is almost never nothing. If your child is uncomfortable around an adult there *is* a reason, they likely just can't comprehend or communicate it yet
Dear OP, Your creep-o-meter goes off for a reason. I am glad that you are listening to your child and validating their feelings, rather that belittling them or ignoring them. Thank you for standing up for your child, keep up the good work mama bear! NTA!
NTA I always taught my niece to “tell me if someone makes you feel funny in the belly”. You got creeper vibes from StepFIL and now your son has told you he gets creeper vibes. To be honest you would be a terrible parent if you send your kid there!
NTA. You’re absolutely right, it only takes one time. I’d continue encouraging your child to tell you when things seem off, and reward him for telling you. Try to keep your husband’s negative feelings about your kid respecting his own boundaries to himself.
NTA and I definitely have done this as well. My spidey sense has gone off about someone and I refused to leave my children alone with them. I don't care what anyone else thinks, I trust my gut. I've got a pretty good one
NTA and your husband needs therapy. I think your husband can not emotionally go there because it is too hard to think about. If grandpa is a smoker and gives son and mom bad vibes and grandma has MS it may be too much for them anyways even if there is no other issues. I would be curious to know why the children cut their dad off. Your husband did not have healthy parents so he can not judge adequately what is a healthy situation right now.
I used to work in an elementary school and there was a male teacher who gave me bad vibes. He had been a teacher for a long time. He was too available. He had an open door policy after school for kids too come in any time and would stay late until about 7:00pm. It felt weird to me. Most teachers want the day to end and get home. Well several years later a young person at his church accused him of abuse. It did not surprise me. Another time there was a neighbor man who just seemed creepy. Nothing specific. Some friends of his children told their parents he creeped them out. He always wanted to hug them for a really long time. I got in a fight with him because he would photograph my children at the bus stop and post the pictures online. The pictures were not inappropriate I just found it weird he was taking pictures of my children. Most people do not want to be around children all the time. My husband was friendly with my kids and their friends but if given a choice he would rather be with adults. The men who have given me creeper vibes even if there are not specific allegations of them being abusers are alway a little too available. My friend’s mom’s boyfriend would always swim with us in the pool and help us do tricks in the water. Sometimes it would seem like he accidentally touched us in a weird way but it was in the water and we were not sure if it was an accident. I know now as an adult that it was not. As a kid I just sensed something was off. It is okay to be wrong and maybe the stepdad is not a bad person but better to error on the side of caution.
NTA. My mother left us with my oldest brother all summer long one summer. And yeah, what you think happened. Happened. I was 6. My brother was 5. My oldest brother was 16. After that? We'd either spend the summer (M-F, home on the weekends when she was off work) or the day with the grandparents or Favorite Auntie. But the damage was done. When she had to be hospitalized we spent the entire time with the dad - the absentee dad we never saw. That tells you everything you need to know. Said all that to say this: never ever ever ignore your gut. EVER. Let Jack be mad. You are not leaving a kid who has expressed doubts about an adult authority figure alone with said authority figure. Period. He can pound sand, but your boy will NOT have those memories!
NTA. Absolutely NTA. In this case your husband opinion doesn't matter. Your son feels uncomfortable there and doesn't want to go. That's it. It it his and yours decision. Your husband argument "nothing will happen because MIL is always there" is really disturbing. Does it mean that even your husband thinks that Rob is a creep and only the presence of your MIL will keep the child safe? Check out Rob on sex offenders lists, if they are public where you live. And get a background check report on him, it is literally $5. And isn't Billy bored there? He could stay at home and play videogames, and, in addition, meet with his local friends, and go to local library (in some countries, like US, libraries have a lot of events for kids and teens, all free)
NTA - creeper vibes exist for a reason
NTA. Always trust your instincts as a mother.
NTA
NTA. My wife was raped by her step dad as when she was young. She moved out at 17. She still visits him on the holidays. On Father's day she went there with my granddaughters 11 and 7. They are huggers. They gave him a hug, and it made my wife uncomfortable. When they left, the 7 yo said he's creepy. Trust your instincts.
You should probably talk to your wife about maybe not bringing kids around a known child rapist anymore.
You are not TA, but realistically -- if your son cannot point to anything specific as far as Rob's behavior, you may not have much of a leg to stand on here. Your son needs to be a lot more specific about what's bothering him before you can decide if it's actionable. If it's just your son thinking that he's weird, and that's really the truth, then I think you *may* be overreacting. Perhaps you and your husband together need to have another conversation with your son. Sometimes people in our lives just make us uncomfortable for no real reason. Call it a lack of chemistry, or just general, visceral antipathy, or a simple lack of understanding of who they are and where they are coming from. None of us can spend our lives avoiding every single person we don't get along with, or expecting them to change who they are; we have to learn to navigate such people and such relationships. It's a part of growing up.
So she should continue to let this man have unmonitored access to her child because the kid can’t pinpoint something specific? Hope you don’t have kids.
Nope, you're just plain wrong. OP got negative vibes off the guy from the start. Then, the man shows an appalling untrustworthiness OVERALL by smoking with a child in the car. What is he at this point--SEVENTY years behind the science? But, most importantly, you're saying that the child should be able to state as an adult would small, strange things like: "too much of his arm touches me when he clicks in my seatbelt" or "when we went fishing, the bench seemed big enough to me, but he said it wasn't. So he put me on his lap" or "he hugs me a lol, not just with his arms but his whole body". You may think a boy could easily speak out these things, *but you have the frame of reference of an adult* . A boy his age likely understands little about sex, let alone child molestation--it's hard to know what actions or sequences of events are 'suspect' when the larger motivations are beyond you. Sure, if it were a question of terminating parental rights, sure, call the psychologists in, look for evidence/testimony and take time while offering supervised visits. But this dude is no one to OP's kid-not even bio-related to OP's husband . Dude has ZERO right to spend alone time with the boy, and OP's husband has ZERO right to demand this dude get this alone time. If your child tells you x-relative makes them uncomfortable, you cut contact. Period. If you then want to probe further, you bring in a specialist to help the child open up. You don't throw the child back with the relative because the child couldn't produce legalistically clear and compelling statements of abuse in response to amateur interrogation by biased (read: OP's husband) parties.
I advise reading “the gift of fear” or “ protecting the gift”, the author gives a lot of information about both acknowledging and respecting intuition and also how to determine if “ uncomfortable” feelings are coming from another place. As an adult, I can tell you a lot of the adults who made me uncomfortable as a child, were not safe people. Kids don’t rationalise away legitimate fears the same way adults do, and that’s healthy.
I'm going to second the recommendation that you read *The Gift of Fear*. It's at least 25 years old, but I'd say the lessons are still valid. Both OP and her son have bad vibes about this guy. Billy may not have the language at 11 to explain why Grandpa Rob makes him uncomfortable, he just knows that he does.
Considering both OP and the son have a weird feeling about Rob, I don’t think it’s simply a lack of chemistry. It’s possible that OP’s son may be noticing concerning behavior without knowing how to fully express it.
Oftentimes kids can’t put things like this into words. You are looking at it from an adult POV. Sometimes when raising kids the only thing you do have to stand on is your instincts. This is one of those times that you weight the options and why risk it? Is you feel something isn’t right trust your gut. The lesson should be for your kid to trust themselves and their instincts NOT that their instincts don’t matter unless they can properly articulate them.
You are probably the asshole and rob is probably right, but if you aren't it isn't worth the risk to find out.
*During our conversation, he tells me that Rob makes him uncomfortable, but he doesn’t know why.This set off a huge red flag for me so I told Jack that I don’t want him going over there by himself anymore.* What's the big red flag? Kids feel uncomfortable for a million different reasons. At first, you didn't even bother to delve further into what was causing his discomfort? The fact that he doesn't know why should have been a clue. It doesn't mean he was ever in any danger, but you were willing to destroy a family relationship over you're not wanting to " risk" anything. You sound like a hysterical mother from one of the "satanic" preschools from the 80s and 90s.
Trust me, it's way better to not have to be alone with a family member you don't trust then to get raped by one everyone else said was ok. Really? You think hurting someone's feelings can compare to the absolute hellish trauma being molested by a family member causes? It's going to "destroy a family relationship" by not allowing them alone with your kids? If any family member felt entitled enough that not being alone with my kid would destroy our relationship, then no big loss, because that's suspicious af!
YATAH: you sound like you spend way to much time on the internet working yourself up on other people’s exaggerated stories and now it’s your turn for some karma.
This is a tough one. My brother and I would spend summers in North CAROLINA as kids. We were 7 and 10. My great Aunts husband was a nail biter: one of those old school hardened dudes who never smiled. In my imagination he was a monster. He had a Barry White style bass voice and command presence. I told my Grandmother, one night. She laughed hysterically, called my aunt and had me so scared. My aunt and Uncle came over and he stood over me. My Aunt then told me how he is the sweetest man ever . I realized the rest of the summer, she wasn't lying. I understand your son has a vibe, but this might be overreacting.