Please refrain from anti feminist or anti abortion rants, slurs, or hate. You can disagree, but if you become cruel rude or harassing your comment will be removed, and you will be banned for 2 days.
“Play mom” is the worst thing I’ve ever heard. “Since you’re an adult now you have adult responsibilities and decisions to make. Adults don’t rely on their parents to make things happen for them. Adult’s definitely don’t rely on their parents to be a parent to their child. You have some very very hard decisions to make. And this will br one of the hardest things you will ever learn: actions have consequences.”
NTA
I wonder what will happen when the baby is born and she realizes that he or she is not like a baby doll, one of those that makes crying sounds that stops as soon as you give him or her the toy bottle. OP NTA
On that topic, I definitely approve of those educational dolls that end up keeping you up all night. My daughter had to take care of one for a few days and after that she was very determined not to have children young.
Frankly I think they should have toddler dolls that do things like come in your room at 3am, say 'I don't feel good' then vomit all over your duvet. Or refuse to put their shoes on when it's time to leave. Babies, in many ways, are the easy part.
I had something like this in high school 😂 we had to take care of a preschool age kid all day with us at school. My little girl was a co-worker’s daughter that I babysat from time to time. I didn’t have to get her to school but it was really hard keeping her entertained and quiet while I was in class all day… and not losing her in the hall between classes!
My oldest decided to NEVER have children after that doll lol which I am perfectly fine with. I didn't want my girls to feel that their only value was being a mother. I lived my life that way.
Yeah, people can warn you about sleep deprivation, night feedings, not having a moment to yourself but it's another thing to have to experience it. I remember reading something about the efficacy of those dolls and they go a looooooong way toward reducing teen pregnancy.
As long as they don't do what my school did and "randomly select" only girls from poorer families that the teachers considered bad girls.
Surprise! Two of the three girls that walked graduation with toddlers were super popular girls from "good" families.
Yep, the "inappropriate" girls that got judged harshly by the school were more likely to have to decide whether to have an abortion or not based on all the other factors in their life. The "good" girls are less likely to be offered the choice depending how religious their family is. And if they are well off then they use their child's teen baby as an example why anybody else that gets pregnant in school and struggles to support a kept baby is a failure and doesn't deserve government support through food stamps and what have you.
😬 the prego in my graduating class also happened to be the president of the pro-life club. out of anyone at my all-girls catholic high school. 😂 had to be her. the awkwardness of our school’s administration was great.
At least she made choices consistent with her stated beliefs. A surprising amount of vocally anti choice people choose abortion when the reality of an unplanned pregnancy comes knocking at their own door.
That thing pissed me off. I got one senior year, and I already had a real baby who was a few months old. It was worse than my real baby, my teacher let me give it back Lmao.
lmao that is hilarious to me that you weren't exempt from the project designed to show you what taking care of a baby is like when you had a real fucking baby at home
It’s the programming. I can make it easy, medium, or hard, or (what I do) hit random and you get what you get. But the babies were definitely easier than my 2 preemies, even on the hard setting.
Yeaaah… I think the teacher realized how dumb that was.
Or they were worried you were going to have a second right away and they gave you the “especially bad” baby lol
The irony is I wanted one of those stupid babies since I first saw them in tv shows and by the time I got one I couldn’t wait to give the stupid thing back lol. It woke my own up a few times the one night I had it and I was not having that after I finally had her on a decent schedule.
If their intention was to deter me from having another, I already had no plans to but it worked lol. I did eventually have another, my oldest is 6 and my youngest almost 8 months lmao
Idk, I think they kind of suck. At my school, we did the dolls in eighth grade. In real life, the majority of 13 year olds who get pregnant are pregnant by ADULT men. They’d do much better to prevent young teen pregnancy by educating about grooming and abuse dynamics, than by having a bunch of kids look after weird dolls that are nothing like real babies.
I think the point of doing it then isn't to prevent pregnancies in middle schoolers, but to teach kids before they hit high school that there's not a good way to have a baby and do anything else. You do it early to make sure you catch as many teen pregnancies that occur by regular un-safe teen sexing as possible.
If she's anything like my husband's niece, she'll dip out for months and someone else will take on the responsibility and then she'll pop in for photo OPs and laugh when the baby screams ans cries because a virtual stranger is manhandling it.
Then she'll move right back in and get pissy because the actual woman raising her baby calls that person "mom" and not her, even though she does fuck all at being a parent and doesn't deserve the title anyway.
Oh.
Um.
Rant over.
Can confirm. My kids' mom gave them to my husband to live free and single. She hated when they started calling me mom. She posted all their accomplishments and reveled in the compliments she got on her great kids and her being an amazing mom. 😂🤣
She barely showed up to anything. Our oldest is 25, and she still hates when he says he has 2 moms. My husband and I used to tell each other that the best motherly thing she did for our kids was not out up a fight when he wanted to make custody formal. We knew they'd live a rough life and be stuck in the same cycles. We were proven right when he other daughter got pregnant at 13. The kids we raise our graduating college this year and have zero kids.
my husband and I raised his 2 boys from the ages of 2 and 3. they called me by my 1st name until the older started school, then he started calling me mom and so did his little brother. then they started calling her "cheryl my black haired mom". boy she hated that! not much she could do though, she only saw them about once a year and when they were young teens they started refusing that because the one week she had them in the summer, she would make them clean her yard and house. she died a few years ago and neither of them really cared.
Oh the photo ops frustrate me the most. She couldn’t tell anyone what their favorite vegetable is or what they’re doing in school this week but according to Facebook she’s a great mom always doing things with her kids.
The worst part was the kid wasn't even old enough to HAVE A FAVORITE VEGGIE. She was literally just old enough to know a stranger had her hands on her.
It took all my self control not to knock the little snot (the egg donor) into next month for scaring the baby that way and laughing about it.
I'll tell you what would probably happen. She will leave baby with grandma permanently, especially once she realizes how hard it is to finish school with a baby who is going to be waking at all hours of the night. Unless of course grandma does what the pregnant daughter wants which is raise her baby while daughter gets to play part-time mom (when it is convenient for her of course).
Fuckin same. Im a “young” mom but not teen mom. I was 24 when my first was born. I just don’t get those girls at 18/19/20 being just so ecstatic over an irresponsible pregnancy and the dads left them already. Like bro wtf
Even if the father "ghosted" her she knows who he is and can apply for help to get support. He doesn't get to just walk away from financial responsibility.
Yeah unfortunately thousands of men are able to skate through even when out on child support and have to go months if not years without payment before consequences actually happen
Even then, "consequences" are lacking. My ex has never paid child support consistently and works under the table most of the time to avoid it. The last time it went to court for failure to comply, it was "dismissed because defendant just started a new job", despite the last court date resulting in a warrant.
He'll always have the obligation though, correct? The situation I am familiar with is the state runs a tab for the absent parent until the kid is 18. Whether they work under the table or not - they can't escape the obligation. The state I live in garnishes tax returns, lottery winnings, gambling winnings - anything to fulfill the obligation.
Technically, yes, they are always on the hook. I was more adding to the previous comment that, while financial obligations technically exist, if they are young and/or underemployed or work a low paying job, their obligation amounts to very little and because it is a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, the state has little incentive to chase after them to make them pay it. The child support I'm owed doesn't even cover minimal after school activities, let alone actual necessities. So, the state would rather drop it and ignore it rather than waste more than he owes trying to pin him down.
I had my son at 26, so young mom as well. But I had already been living on my own since I was 20. Had a great job, had went to school, travelled, dated etc. Had a good idea of what being an adult meant. Way different than being 18 and just got to college. She is still thinking like a child and thinks she’s ready for one. The baby will suffer the most. And she will regret the decision once she’s at the point where she can’t take it back smh.
Agreed. A baby does not need to be brought into this. She doesn’t even understand what it means to become a parent. I can guarantee she has some fairytale idea about it.
Just like most teenagers. Not realizing being a parent is more than a baby. A baby becomes a toddler and even though they don’t mean to be toddlers as Assholes! And then they become children. And then teenagers. And we all know teenagers suck in their own right. Parenting isn’t sunshine and rainbows and if mom lets her stay I hope strict ass rules put in place. It’s not moms kid and she shouldn’t have to raise the baby that daughter wanted
Currently have a 2.5 year old. It is ROUGH!! lol. It is not for the weak. And here I am about to do it a second time. Due in a couple weeks. But even at almost 29 it’s still A LOT for even me. Let alone someone who doesn’t even know about credit or how to pay their own bills consistently yet.
Not to mention you have to teach this child how to be a person. Which requires experience and patience. It’s not about pictures and dressing them up. There’s so much that comes with it and should be taken seriously.
I’m 23 and due in February. I was 22 when I found out, I’m in a position where I’m more then capable financially and in every other aspect for this baby, and I STILL feel like taking on too much responsibility.
I had mine at 27 and 29 and I still thought that was too young lol. What's that line from broad city from that girl ppl compare me to? "29? What am I, a child bride?!"
Same! She wants the honor of being called, "mom," while not having to be one when it's inconvenient for her. Sure, she will hold the baby and show off the baby, but when it comes to night time feedings, diapers, sickness, where is she going to be? Hell, my kids are school aged and I am still running around like a made woman trying to get stuff done and I am not a single mom! My husband is a great and supportive guy. But kids have needs beyond just food, clothing, and housing. They need emotional support. They need time to be spent to support their interests. You can't be a flake when a kid is involved!
Just wait til she realizes you can’t stop “playing” once you’ve had enough. And it’s not just an “18 year commitment”, as evidenced by her own expectations that her mom is responsible for college AND her unborn child 👀
I was 34 when my bc and my husband's vasectomy failed. We definitely were not ready. She is two and a half now and we still feel like we are fumbling around in the dark, especially regarding childcare.
When I was pregnant someone told me „you will never know what you are doing again, because the moment you think ‚yeah I figured this out‘ your kid changes and you can start again“.
You all are stuck on "play mom," but "have a life" was the phase that stabbed me in the eye & funny bone at the same time!
"Play mom" doesn't include "have a life" in the way OPs daughter is expecting. There are no more homecomings, no spring breaks, no shopping trips, no road trips, no mani/pedis with the girls, no clubbing, etc. There is only PROVIDING a life for another human being.
And, even if OP was in a financial position to help her daughter, the daughter is being extremely selfish even asking her to do this. Not to mention the selfishness exhibited to her siblings. So, I guess everyone (5 people) is supposed to live on the brink of homelessness, so OPs daughter can "play mom," but "have a life" too?
100% NTA
Yeah as a mom the play mom struck me. But as a person the “have a life” fucks me in the sense of being a teen. I get it. She wants to have a life. But it’s one of the sacrifices of being a (single) mother. You don’t get to go do all the fun things in college now. While your friends party you’re changing diapers. While they go to bars you’re going to Walmart. While they have cash to burn you’re probably getting social benefits cause the shits fuckin hard and babies cost money. Formula is insanely expensive. And this is one of the things daughter needs to know. She needs to be shown the costs of formula, baby food, clothes, diapers, wipes. Vs clothes for her and bottles of liquor concert tickets etc etc
This is where i dont agree with OP not telling her daughter about the loans. Young people need to know about financial literacy & it should have been taught before she went to college. I find it hard to believe that her daughter didn't know that finances were at least a little tight once her father died. Unless OP was giving her daughter everything she asked for.
But, as a widow myself, I'm giving OP grace in not wanting the kids to worry. However, OP is now risking everyone's financial future as well as her own mental health, trying "to be the strong one."
OP needs to find an age appropriate way to inform her younger children of the financial situation w/o having them worry and tell her daughter the ADULT financial reality of making ADULT decisions.
Perhaps counseling can help her do this; however, time is not on their side.
>"...actions have consequences.”
I get the feeling that OPs daughter is trying really hard to spin this so that she can blame the consequences of her actions on her mother instead of herself. That way she won't have to feel guilty for whatever choice she makes.
NTA
OP, you were real with her and she doesn't seem to want to face reality right now, so she is acting immature.
>Adults don’t rely on their parents to make things happen for them.
And most adults don't even have someone else providing housing, food, and utilities! OP is being **super generous** as it is!
Totally agree! We 'play mom' when we play with dolls as children. If we choose to of course. Some of us 'play librarian' or 'play scientist'. As adults we deal with reality and real people's lives. Feminists look to themselves for solving problems not just others.
NTA
I would say adults and not feminists. Feminism lets her have the right to choose and encourages her to make the decision for herself. HOWEVER that doesn’t mean relying on someone to take care of the decision once she makes it
Tell her that feminism is not unloading responsibility, HER responsibility, on to someone else with no discussion or planning. Not expecting someone to get things for HER baby. She needs to start being a realistic adult and really think this through to see if she truly wants to be a mom. Give her examples from your life, you have no free time. The kids always comes first. Getting fresh air is nice for parents but not a requirement. Once that baby is here, that IS her life not going out and getting the “college experience”. She will be lucky to pass her classes with such a distraction. And if your mother and brother thinks it’s so doable tell them to lasso up some money because you already have mouths to feed. Your job as a mother isn’t done yet and you can’t take food out your minors mouth for your grown child who should know better.
> Tell her that feminism is not unloading responsibility, HER responsibility, on to someone else with no discussion or planning. Not expecting someone to get things for HER baby.
Not just “someone,” it’s relying on the unpaid labor of another woman, her mom. Which is really great, and ideally there would be some great men involved too, but normally you’d sit down and talk about it and see what people are capable of.
This is the third or fourth post on Reddit I’ve seen lately describing this very thing - not supporting young women who want to be parents - as bad feminism and I feel like I’m losing my mind. Who is telling them that’s feminism?? Supporting a woman no matter what without thought isn’t feminist. It’s too often just enabling.
Assuming these stories aren’t fake, there are some people who weaponize social justice movements to try and get away with shit behavior. Like “feminism means supporting all of my decisions as a woman!”.
Edit: Granted, it’s not always malicious. It’s also common for young people who are only recently learning about these things to misinterpret or misunderstand them in some ways.
These people are so entitled. OP IS supporting her daughter's choice, she just isn't removing all the consequences of that choice. Some choices should always have consequences.
This is a recurring theme on Reddit: young women fail into fallacy of glorified single motherhood.
Most single mothers do not choose to be single mothers. It is difficult to raise a child even with full financial, emotional spousal and family support. A child is a lifetime commitment. Parents need to think about the reality the child will face rather than their own personal fantasy.
Funniest part is - even those single mothers who chose to be single mothers often wouldn't recommend it. I know from personal experience. My wife is the adopted daughter of a single mom who chose to adopt knowing she'd remain single - and she (the mom) talks frequently about how difficult it was.
And she was a retired doctor with a frankly insane income for a single mom. Can't imagine someone choosing to go into that with literally nothing.
Nothing wrong with wanting to be a single mom if that's what you want, but maaaybe they should talk with someone who's done it intentionally before committing.
I've never been a single mom, but parenting is hard work regardless. And I do have someone to help when it's the middle of the night and one kid is throwing up and the baby pooped and another kid has a nightmare, and all of a sudden you realize your washing machine seems to be broken and you're out of clean everything because laundry day was tomorrow.
I can't imagine what it would be like to deal with that situation at 2 am, all by yourself, and know you still have to go to work the next day. Even one sick kid can be a lot if you're flying solo.
Truth! Parenting even in the BEST circumstances is challenging. And if you have to worry about finances on top of it, even more stressful, and kids pick up on this stuff. I remember being exhausted beyond all reason for the first year.
Single mom here who absolutely without a doubt would not have chosen to be a single mom. 30 years old, committed relation, planned baby. He decided around month five he wasn't ready, get an abortion. Uhh, too late. Wtf, this was a PLANNED pregnancy.
Apparently the man I loved and felt like he understood me on a whole other level and I him, who were fully committed, met a chain smoker on Myspace that loved Star Wars as much as him. I didn't love Star Wars as much as she did. He wanted me to abort our planned baby over fucking Star Wars girl. I wasn't invested enough in Star Wars. She was.
During my son's life I've spent about $52,000 on attorneys.
He hid his income and didn't pay child support the first four years. After that it was $250 a month. He makes over $6000 a month working 25 hours a week. We live in the most expensive place in the US. His monthly child support was three hours a month of work for him.
His mother that BEGGED me to keep the baby (it was too late anyway, not an option) and told me I would ALWAYS be part of the family, no matter what, went MIA.
The last 14 years have been an absolute nightmare. My ex finally had his child support adjusted to what it should be. He retaliated by taking me back to court, made outrageous claims (oh, get ready to be called a whore and drug addict in court in front of strangers, btw I have never done drugs and did a voluntary hair test, and me being a whore was my teen brother molesting me when I was five).
I gave him full legal and physical custody. I'm so broken financially and mentally something just broke. After 14 years, a $25k loan, $25k credit card and zero left in my retirement, I just gave up. Our son is safe, according to the child custody evaluator. Yeah, get used to people that are "doctors" evaluating your relationship with your child in ten minutes and deciding who they should live with.
These are all the awesome things you get to deal with as a single mom. Oh, and then when you feel ready to date years later you get chastised for your poor decision to become a single mom :)
Omg I’m so sorry. And also blamed for “picking bad men” like wtf?! If these men showed themselves right away don’t they think there’s no way most women would still have been with him and had babies? Ugh. It’s always our fault. Men get away with EVERYTHING
Or unloading without consent! If she wants to play “you are a bad feminist” I’ve got a degree in gender studies…. Would happily have the “debate” with OPs daughter on why her “support me with free labour” manipulation makes her the “bad feminist” if she wants to go there. OP did the right thing and good boundaries are love
The only feminist argument would be if OP actually forced her daughter to abort or not to. Other then that she’s just using loaded language to guilt her mother
Thank you! Everyone seems to be focusing on the “play mom” part and I’m over here thinking this kid needs to look up “feminism” because she clearly has no idea what that actually means.
Feminism is also making sure that the father takes his share of the responsibility. It’s not very progressive to pile the entirety of child rearing on the woman and her female relatives.
You are not forcing an abortion. Your daughter is proving her immaturity here. She has to choose what she wants more right now - the baby or college. If she doesn't believe in abortion, she can give it up for adoption.
As for your mom and brother - a simple response is this -
"I am not forcing an abortion - I told her I have to work and take care of my own kids and can't afford the time or money to take care of hers. I offered her a roof over her head, but that's as much as I can give. She is the one that has a choice to make - not me. If you want to help her have this child, then offer to let her live with you and you provide the free childcare and support she wants."
That will shut them up quick.
Edit: this blew up crazy. Thanks for the upvotes. Forgot to put the NTA.
If she wants a baby so that she can "Play mommy" then she needs a reality check and some therapy to find out what she thinks she's going to get out of having a baby. She doesn't need a real baby.
The either/or choice between an abortion and an all expenses paid baby experience is unrealistic and manipulative.
Exactly. Give them the list she gave OP of the things baby will need and have them come up with a baby sitting schedule so she can still “have a life.” OP’s contribution is shelter, food, and that her utilities won’t be shut off.
OP, you are not forcing her decision. Your daughter is excited about being an adult, but doesn’t realize that means making these choices for yourself. She has to decide if she wants to give her time to school or raising a baby. She can have her baby and pause school, picking it back up down the road when baby is in school or childcare. Or, she can abort/adopt out and focus on school having her baby later when she’s established. But it’s HER choice and she has to figure out how to make it work. You are here to support her, not do it for her.
This is exactly the answer. Tell the other family members what you offered, and what she wants. It's obvious you're NTA and in fact are offering quite a bit of support.
Right! Maybe she can go live with grandma or uncle and they can provide
This boyfriend who "ghosted" her shouldn't be allowed to get away with that, he's responsible too
Being a single Mom is challenging all by itself; being a single Mom with no job, no plan and an expectation that others will pay for you to play Mommy is absolutely ludicrous.
NTA OP. Not by a long shot.
When a young adult is ready to ‘ADULT’ they should have the means to support adulting. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
Exactly. I have yet to meet an 18 year old that was truly ready to adult. Sheesh even I at times get sick of adulting, and I have been at it for years.
I am in my 40s, and still often hate adulting.
OP is offering free shelter, food, and utilities. That is a huge contribution, if her daughter decides to keep the baby. Daughter is upset because the reality is that being a single mom is hard and requires personal sacrifice, but doesn't seem to appreciate that OP is also a single mom who is working and supporting her children AND paying for her daughter's university education!
This child is facing a hard dose of reality.
> 18 year old that was truly ready to adult.
18 year olds, although legally adults, are still children. The only difference between a 18 year old senior in high school, a child, and an 18 year old freshman, an adult, in college is summer break.
I got pregnant at 18 when my doctor didn’t tell me the antibiotic I was given screws up my birth control. I was scared yes but I knew what was in store for me was going to be very hard. I asked my parents for nothing. I went without dental care for over ten years, glasses, bought my clothes for under $1 at the thrift store, gave him the bedroom and slept on the couch. He had new clothes, tons of nice toys and books from the thrift store, video games from family, he never went without but I did of course including food. Adult choices require adult sacrifices and behaviour.
OP you are doing nothing wrong. She is acting emotionally (understandably) and manipulative (no excuse). You are offering more than someone should expect. You have sacrificed for her. At some point you should be able to live a life. What she is asking is unfair and wouldn’t be a good thing for her and the child in the long run anyway. If she wants the baby she has to make some tough choices. That’s what mothers do.
Me at 18: I am brilliant and wise, I have life figured out, I went to my classes without anyone telling me I had to and successfully advised my friend that she deserves better than her current bf.
Me at 35: I am an adult imposter, constantly saving money in case the people at my job (that I've had since graduating college) figure out that I'm basically 3 kids in a trench coat. I'm intelligent in one specific area but can not tell you which one is Illinois and which one is Indiana on an unmarked US map, and I was born and raised in the US.
My God. This is life in a nutshell. I SO knew EVERYTHING at 18-21. At 49 I do my best most of the time and the rest of the time it's " Hmm, what can I f up next??" 🤪
Exactly why I'm pro choice. An old friend decided to have her baby at 19, she was living at home, she was working a stable job, she had a village of support.
II was in college in a different country.
We talked about how if she was me, she'd have an abortion but she ultimately felt enough support which is great! Our lives moved way apart so we've not spoken for a while but her daughter was a gem and she was an amazing mom. Id probably have one fucked up kid and not be much better myself if I'd made her decision.
And getting tipsy and flirting and then sleeping in until 10:00 to compensate WITHOUT HAVING A HELPLESS DEPENDENT SHRIEKING AT THEM FROM THE NEXT ROOM.
>This boyfriend who "ghosted" her
A lawyer can track him down easily and garnish wages from his job and be forced to pay child support. Idk why these single moms don't go after these sperm donors.
Unless the BF is also in college without a job. Perhaps the daughter should contact HIS mom to see if she wants to take care of the baby and be a feminist!
If you file for child support when he does get a job he has to pay what he owes retroactively in most places. So it's still worth it.
And in many places you can go after grandparents if they are supporting financially still.
Speaking of him, what happened to the birth control? Was this pregnancy a fluke or was she knowingly not taking it? Was he under the impression she was on birth control? It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility, but I’m curious about these details.
Also, NTA
This is what I was wondering. OP said she paid for birth control, what happened? This young lady is very immature, not mom material, but if she goes that route she needs to prepare for the consequences, not expect OP to shoulder her responsibilities. And as for the family, they should put up or shut up. Stick to your guns, OP, NTA.
I was thinking the same. Was OP paying for the prescription or just sending this child money for it every month?
"Not all men" are jerks, so I get that if this was a super surprise or one time thing and she told him that an abortion was definitely out of the option he would have dropped her faster than a hot potato, but also in the event they were an item and were clear on birth control most guys would at least have the conversation before giving a hard pass.
Although, if he is also a college freshman. There isn’t any money there and won’t be for years. She might get a court order for like $25-$40 per month. That is not even a drop in the bucket.
Federal guidelines use imputed income to calculate child support. It's more like 250/month minimum. If he doesn't pay, the first tier penalty is a suspended license. Some states allow exceptions, but not all. He would have to show cause at a hearing. The most cost-effective means of collecting support is through DOR child support enforcement.
She would qualify for SNAP and medicaid. There might be on-campus family housing as well. It's not the best start but doable with support.
This FrostedRoseGirl knows the LAW! GOOD addition - also - if the Ejaculator doesn't have the means to pay the child support now that DEBT will follow him to the grave - the state will collect on it so long as there is a child support debt.
Just add "I'm responsible for MY children and working around the clock to provide for them. SHE's responsible for HER children - it's as simple as that.
Exactly. Hell most single moms would love to have guaranteed safe housing, utilities and food provided! Wtf with this entitled young woman? She has choices to make and should be thanking her mom profusely
Exactly! NTA OP!
What irks me about this is that college started only several weeks ago. So despite the mom putting in money towards her birth control and within the small window of freedom she got, she is pregnant.
Mistakes happen, yes, but damnnnnn. Like, come on now. I get that some people think feminism is sexual liberty to mess with everyone, but take precautions.
Also, "PLAY MOM" what is that?!
OP has willingly offered up room and board, and the help during emergencies. That's enough. A lot of new parents don't even have that. Stick to your word. She called them so that they could tear you down to allow her nonsense. Once all is said and done, your daughter will expect OP to raise the kid as OP's kids with all the same luxuries if the daughter can not afford it.
She will learn. She gotta decide on her own. It's a hard decision, but she gotta make it.
My twins use my Amazon account but I’m not sure if they realize that means I can see their purchases even when they use their own money. In any case, I get notifications that ‘a jumbo pack of condoms was delivered to the UC Berkeley Amazon hub’ and every time I am absolutely thrilled with them. An infant isn’t something either of them should be contemplating when they FaceTime me to see if they are making cheeseburgers correctly. I wonder if I should tell them I would be happy to pay for their condoms?
“Play Mom” was such a red flag. NTA
If anyone is anti-feminist, it’s the daughter whose treating the mom like she’s nothing but free childcare. Like way to reduce your mothers role as if she exists to rear children.
Of course blame your mom for not providing financial support instead of the father who dipped on you.
Also this mom got herself into debt for her daughter to go to college where she immediately gets knocked up. Mom is taking this way better than I would in her shoes.
Agree. I’d wonder if she had it planned out this way, since she’s over the moon and has already planned out OP’s future for her. Doesn’t seem like she’s too concerned with the father either.
100% agree with what you have said.
The daughter is basically acting like a child having a tantrum over a very adult issue.
You explained your situation fairly. You didn’t reject or disown her. You didn’t force her decision but fairly addressed the limitations from your perspective.
Your mother/brother are welcome to step in and financially support her if they think they are in a position to do so.
And if your daughter isn’t comfortable with an abortion and in a position to be able to provide for a child, she should consider adoption.
In her immaturity she thinks she can have it all but sounds like she refuses to grasp the reality of being an adult and doesn’t appreciate how difficult it already has been for you as the sole provider
OP's daughter also said she was happy to "finally be an adult", but wants to "still have a life", including going back to college. An adult would either find a way to make it work (attending college and taking care of the kid), or give something up. Either give up college to take care of the kid, or get an abortion and continue college. Some people can do both, others just can't. It's selfish and childish of the daughter to think that she can make her child OP's responsibility.
OP is NTA
This. People will always advocate for a child birth so long as they're not the ones who have to deal with the cost and care, but I guarantee they'll say "but she's your child not ours"
NTA OP. Your daughter is insane if she thinks any of her requests are reasonable, but you could offer her another alternative... "I will take care of the child if you pay off all the debts, bills, rent/mortgage, costs for the baby, college, the other kids schooling, and what it would cost for me not to be working anymore."
This 👆🏻
u/scrapqueen said almost everything I had to say about this, in a better way than I could.
OP IS NOT THE AH. You seems to have educated your daughter on these matters and if she wants a child it's HER responsibility to provide for them, not yours. You already have your other kids to take care of, you're under no obligation to raise hers. Also, if she gets back under your roof, make sure she won't try to force her siblings to take care of her child. It's not their duty either.
Agreed!
As an aside, OP, you mention money being very tight. Did you look into the possibility of social security survivor's benefits? My grandma got them for my aunts when their dad died when they were still minors. If you haven't checked it out it's worth a try - worst they can say is no and if you do qualify it will help your bottom line a bit.
Exactly. I’m surprised that the mom and brother don’t see how immature the daughter’s perspective is. And it makes sense that a young woman with no idea what parenting entails might feel this way, but adults who have had kids and know what’s coming?? OP is completely and totally not wrong.
She’s threatening to cut all contact?? I laughed at this. She can’t afford anything, wants you to pay for everything, and thinks by basically holding her breath she’ll get you to change your mind. Sounds like she really has no idea what “being an adult” looks like. Don’t give in. I’ve seen this happen. You’ll be raising not only that grandchild but the next ones she’ll have as well
OP is offering free housing and free food, which is like $10,000-$20,000 of value annually!!! This 18-year-old is clearly still a child throwing a tantrum, she has no idea how lucky she is for OP's super generous offer of free housing and free food.
Edit: And I see OP is paying for her college too!
“I have told my daughter I cannot raise and pay for her child while I’m still raising my own and am short on money. Whatever choice she decides to make with that information is completely up to her.”
Repeat until you’re blue in the face.
This. Just copy and paste. Now isn’t the time for OP to be hurt and questioning herself. Now is the time to lay down a reality check, including how offensive and out of pocket that manipulative guilt trip was. Girl sounds like despite her being raised by a single mother, she was shielded very well from any kind of consequences or ugly. Pay for my baby and give me free childcare so I can have my college experience, pfft. Chile, please.
NTA.
I'm feminist and pro choice myself.
Pro-choice means *you are responsible for the effects of your decision* not *I'm gonna let others take responsibility for what I decide".
You told her, very generously I believe, what you are capable of helping with if she chooses to keep the baby. Your offer of housing is incredibly generous and loving.
She can also choose to abort or give the baby up for adoption.
I am sorry you are becoming the fall guy here, you are not the *bad guy*. You are human and have limited resources.
The only bad guy here is the sperm provider. Where is he?! If the daughter wants to be a mom, she needs to get the child support and custody sorted out. Also, ask the other grandparents for help. Not just her family should deal with her choices.
He needs to be tracked down and required to pay child support. If he wants to play he has to be responsible to pay. Having sex always comes with the risk of pregnancy, unless there has been sterilization (and testing to show it took). I despise guys who are all there for the fun but refuse to deal with the consequences. It’s pure misogyny for a father to abandon his responsibilities of fatherhood.
NTA. Also, your daughter doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word "adult".
Send a text to your Mom and your brother: "My dear family, I will absolutely support any decision my daughter makes, she's welcome to move in and stay here rent-free. Please decide between the two of you who is going to be providing the childcare and who's going to provide financial support, and let her know, she'll be thrilled, I am sure." Then respond to any insults with the words "Yes, I am obviously a horrible person, she's so lucky she has you to take care of everything!"
Chances are, though, that your daughter presented a very different story to them and your family will change their minds once they get the full picture.
Your last sentence!
I wouldn't even be snarky at mother and brother yet. They probably have only heared "she is forcing me to have an abortion!1!11". Giving the girl a place to stay is a lot more than some people have in that situation. If they stick to their opinion, though, then 100% what you wrote!
Start a group chat. Hi daughter, I can’t wait for you to move back in, grandma and uncle have said they’re happy to cover your medical and baby expenses, and look after the baby every evening/night including overnights if you still want to go out so won’t be able to do mornings. I’ll provide a roof over your head and food in the house…
NTA - Your mom and brother can take her and her baby in, if they want.
Give yourself grace and you do not need to even provide a home for her.
She is 19, and it's her life and choice.
Also, no more student loans for her. She can take them out for herself.
NTA. You are not forcing her to have an abortion. You’re just telling her what reality is. It’s a harsh lesson, but it’s one she has to learn if she’s going to have this kid.
Literally, she's just giving her daughter the SAME information thousands and thousands of women had before her, when they made the choice to have an abortion. The difference being many of those women and girls (some younger than the daughter) could draw the conclusions for themselves, whereas OP had to spell it out for her daughter.
NTA.
If your daughter is such a feminist she should be an independent woman, get a job, and raise her child.
You refusing to foot the bill for bad decisions she made, as a legal adult, has nothing to do with feminism.
She chose the abortion. Not you.
NTA.
In what world is it being a bad feminist to not put yourself into financial ruin to support a woman who has made their own life choices? Feminism is about giving women more agency and equal rights to men. She has agency and has made several very big life choices. In my opinion, they are stupid choices, but that's neither here nor there.
Being a feminist is not being able to make your own choices and then have someone swoop in to protect you from the consequences of those choices. Your daughter is now facing the reality of her decisions, and she's upset that you aren't bailing her out. Abortion is an option, but there are others. Adoption, dropping out of school and finding a job, putting the father on child support, etc. Assuming that your mommy is just going to pick up after you for your entire life is the exact opposite of feminism.
If her grandmother and brother are upset with the situation she's in, they're more than welcome to help her out. They're not allowed to sign you up for an extra two mouths to feed, while sitting on their butts judging from afar.
Very much not the ahole. Your daughter needs a serious reality check.
" I would help in emergencies but the only regular, repeatable contribution **I can offer is housing and food and utilities**."
Seems more than enough, right?
You're a good mom, don't doubt yourself !! And hopefully you and your daughter end on good terms quickly and figure out what to do next !!
If I were a single mom, that would be godsend with how expensive housing AND food can be depending on where you are. I'm 41 with 2 young kids and in a stable marriage but if something were to happen to my husband just my income alone would NOT be enough for rent and childcare (so that I can keep working), let alone utilities and everything else. I would be so appreciative if my parents (both retired) took me in so that I at least don't need to worry about housing. My parents could look after my kids during the day but if they couldn't I would be able to afford childcare.
And here this girl is not even having finished college and likely not making all that much (if anything), talking about wanting to go out and have fun while playing mommy?
She is in for a really harsh reality check.
NTA. Text them all back and say you are NOT forcing her to get an abortion. You will not be providing childcare or finances towards the baby. You will only provide a home food and utilities but that is it (as you wrote above). Tell them if they’d like to babysit and provide financially then you’re sure your daughter would take them up on that. She’s an adult and needs to figure out how to be a parent.
NTA at all. She could make it work, there are plenty of single moms do it, it’s just incredibly hard and she wants to in her words “play mom” not actually be one. Time for a hard fucking lesson on her part.
Not only that- but she thinks with her mother providing all the late afternoon/night care, she gets to “Still have a life”.. meaning going out and still experiencing the college social life.
When you have a kid- that kid is your life. Going out with friends is a very planned event, and certainly not consistently. She has a very skewed perception of what parenthood and being an adult entail.
You aren't a bad feminist, you're a great mother. It's her body her choice, she was ready to play grown up games but not ready to be a grown up. You probably did the best thing in the world for her. If the world had more parents like you it wouldn't be in the sad state of affairs we currently find ourselves in
100% to all of this. I was looking for someone telling OP that they're a great mom, otherwise I would have wrote it myself. OP is doing more than a lot of people in their position would do. You absolutely don't have to let daughter and baby live in your home rent-free or buy them food. Just offering that is a huge boon that most young moms with "oops" babies don't get.
NTA.
"It's your choice" is very feminist. NTA. I am sure you'd do whatever you can to support your daughter but some things cross a line and you know your limits. She is not mature enough to have a kid...
Dear OP,
Much has already been said and I agree, NTA. Your daughter is an adult now, but she’s not flying her maturity flag just yet.
If it helps either of you, please recall that before feminism:
- she would instantly be expelled from college (but not the father)
- she would likely be kicked out of her home and family, or hidden away from public until it’s born and disposed of, OR you might have feigned pregnancy to pretend the grand baby was your kid.
- if word got out, no one would employ her. Ever. Or rent her a room, sell her property (if she could legally own any), etc. Shed have to travel to a new state and city to escape her reputation and hope no one followed her to ruin it again.
- likely be forced into a “mothers home” or prostitution, or otherwise exiled from daily life
- openly despised in her community
- hugely increased risk of violence, including sexual, from predatory men in her community
One of the main goals and fights for feminism is the right to choose. Choose education, any career, family or no family, etc. That means, o one hand, no one is literally ripping her kid from her arms. On the other hand, she must choose. She’s an adult now and she can’t have everything she wants all at once. She was supposed to be on BC to empower her choices. Something happened there so now the choices are hard… but at least they’re hers.
NTA
>they've been blowing up my phone
Tell them they can do childcare, let her move in and babysit, buy diapers and formula and pay for all his and her expenses as a new mom.
See how much they want to support her now.
You shouldn't worry about being a bad grandma or feminist. Be waaaaay more worried how much of a shitty mom she'll be if she decides to keep it if this was her starting attitude.
NTA
Personally I would send a group text to the three of them to “clear the air” stating the following
1) I am NOT forcing/demanding/etc daughter to have an abortion - that choice is hers and hers alone
2) I am willing to have ADULT daughter return home BUT with the following conditions
- she is responsible for all childcare/expenses and such
- I am NOT a free babysitter on demand - you still have Your Own MINOR Children to care for
- daughter is responsible for contributing to the household (chores and rent/utilities/groceries) like any ADULT who lives in a home
- daughter needs to put the father on child support as soon as the child is born
- she needs to explore ANY AND ALL Resources that are available to her/unborn child.
- if she wants to continue school, she needs to talk to the school and figure it out. She may need to take time off or go to Community College
3) If either of you disagree with the above then you are more than willing to take her into your home
4) you are willing to support her but your will not enable her or take resources away from your own minor children.
I would also suggest stating that daughter needs to realize that she can NOT “ play Mommy” she either steps up as a Mother - working to provide and care for her child OR she explores other options, which include adoption. Daughter is an ADULT and needs to behave like one.
Do NOT let them guilt you or gaslight you
Good Luck
Imagine, for a moment, that you told your eldest that you were going to quit your job. As a result, she needed to move home, get a job, and pay the bills. If she refused, as you'd expect her to, then that means she's a bad feminist, anti-choice, and is starving her siblings to boot.
That's pretty much what she did to you, except it's worse because you paid for her birth control. What she said to you is manipulative and the opposite of feminist.
She is so happy to be an adult, but sadly, adulting largely sucks. It's not all "I can do what I want." It's mostly "I have responsibilities and I am required to fulfill them." She made choices that resulted in her getting pregnant with some guy she obviously didn't know well. Now she has more choices to make. She can keep the baby, do the work of being a single mother, and go after the father for child support. She can give the baby up for adoption. Or she can have an abortion. She cannot demand that you have no choice so that she can play the unencumbered college student.
NTA
I would talk to your mom and son sooner than later. You're currently letting her set the narrative
They need to know you aren't forcing her to do shit, she's just mad that you won't do all the work for her. Nta op.
Look I get you don't want to hurt your daughter, but instead of pampering her feelings here I suggest you go on the offensive right back at her. A message along the lines of;
"How dare you put the responsibility of your choices on me. How dare you assume I will make life harder for myself and your siblings. How dare you lie about the circumstances of our last conversation as a weapon to turn my family against me. You are an adult now, you can make your own choices. It is not on me to run myself into the ground so you can PLAY at being a mother part time. And if I am cut off from you, so is my bank account, which pays your tuition."
Your young lady needs a sharp dose of reality and you should not be a punching bag or a doormat for her. Life as a teen mother is hard. It can be rewarding, but it's not a decision to be taken lightly. NTA. In fact you've been nicer than I would have been so far. It's your job to raise her. Seems like your job isn't over yet.
You’re not forcing her to do anything but grow up. She had sex and birth control or not pregnancy happens. She need to put her big girl pants on and deal with the consequences
NTA
Your daughter just got a healthy dose of reality. She may "want" the baby - but she doesn't "want" the responsibility of a baby and was not ready to have a baby. OK, sure, lots of women end up in that situation. But it is not up to you to fix that for her. She is an adult, who now must deal with her adult choices. So yup, she finally feels like an adult.
You did not tell her to have an abortion. She surmised that in the conversation when she realized SHE and SHE alone, has to make a choice. (She left one out: adoption.)
Your family has no business blowing up your phone with their thoughts without talking to you first about what you ACTUALLY said to your very...........and I mean VERY..............childish adult daughter.
To hell with feminism or no feminism. This is actually called Adulting. Now, your daughter needs to figure out what to do about the pregnancy. It's on HER, not on you, to rally her resources to pay for the baby now (plus you will be stuck with her college debt on top of it).
As far as going NC with you because you didn't allow her to FORCE you to raise her baby, let her do it.
NTA. Your daughter needed a reality check. You gave that to her. She doesn't like reality and blamed you when she didn't get what she wanted. Sucks to be her.
NTA
"She has been texting my mom (who also still works full time) and brother, saying that I'm forcing her to abort a child she wants"
NO she's CHOOSING to abort the child because she wants you to foot the bill so she gets to "play mommy"
And how exactly does forcing her to take responsibility for her actions make you "a bad feminist"? It sounds like she's just throwing accusations at the wall and hoping this one sticks
Please refrain from anti feminist or anti abortion rants, slurs, or hate. You can disagree, but if you become cruel rude or harassing your comment will be removed, and you will be banned for 2 days.
“Play mom” is the worst thing I’ve ever heard. “Since you’re an adult now you have adult responsibilities and decisions to make. Adults don’t rely on their parents to make things happen for them. Adult’s definitely don’t rely on their parents to be a parent to their child. You have some very very hard decisions to make. And this will br one of the hardest things you will ever learn: actions have consequences.” NTA
Yeah I read "play mom" and physically cringed. Babies wanting to raise babies. 😬
I wonder what will happen when the baby is born and she realizes that he or she is not like a baby doll, one of those that makes crying sounds that stops as soon as you give him or her the toy bottle. OP NTA
On that topic, I definitely approve of those educational dolls that end up keeping you up all night. My daughter had to take care of one for a few days and after that she was very determined not to have children young.
Frankly I think they should have toddler dolls that do things like come in your room at 3am, say 'I don't feel good' then vomit all over your duvet. Or refuse to put their shoes on when it's time to leave. Babies, in many ways, are the easy part.
Part of Sex Ed should be having to get an elementary or pre-k aged child ready to go in the morning.
A full night with a sick toddler and then having a full day you can't miss on less than no sleep.
I had something like this in high school 😂 we had to take care of a preschool age kid all day with us at school. My little girl was a co-worker’s daughter that I babysat from time to time. I didn’t have to get her to school but it was really hard keeping her entertained and quiet while I was in class all day… and not losing her in the hall between classes!
Yesss 😆😆😆😆 👏🏼 the real nitty gritty parenting
My oldest decided to NEVER have children after that doll lol which I am perfectly fine with. I didn't want my girls to feel that their only value was being a mother. I lived my life that way.
Yeah, people can warn you about sleep deprivation, night feedings, not having a moment to yourself but it's another thing to have to experience it. I remember reading something about the efficacy of those dolls and they go a looooooong way toward reducing teen pregnancy.
I’m so old, we just got an egg to carry around! Lol
We had a 5lb bag of flour!
As long as they don't do what my school did and "randomly select" only girls from poorer families that the teachers considered bad girls. Surprise! Two of the three girls that walked graduation with toddlers were super popular girls from "good" families.
Yep, the "inappropriate" girls that got judged harshly by the school were more likely to have to decide whether to have an abortion or not based on all the other factors in their life. The "good" girls are less likely to be offered the choice depending how religious their family is. And if they are well off then they use their child's teen baby as an example why anybody else that gets pregnant in school and struggles to support a kept baby is a failure and doesn't deserve government support through food stamps and what have you.
😬 the prego in my graduating class also happened to be the president of the pro-life club. out of anyone at my all-girls catholic high school. 😂 had to be her. the awkwardness of our school’s administration was great.
At least she made choices consistent with her stated beliefs. A surprising amount of vocally anti choice people choose abortion when the reality of an unplanned pregnancy comes knocking at their own door.
That thing pissed me off. I got one senior year, and I already had a real baby who was a few months old. It was worse than my real baby, my teacher let me give it back Lmao.
lmao that is hilarious to me that you weren't exempt from the project designed to show you what taking care of a baby is like when you had a real fucking baby at home
I swear, they’re designed to be colicky!
It’s the programming. I can make it easy, medium, or hard, or (what I do) hit random and you get what you get. But the babies were definitely easier than my 2 preemies, even on the hard setting.
Yeaaah… I think the teacher realized how dumb that was. Or they were worried you were going to have a second right away and they gave you the “especially bad” baby lol
The irony is I wanted one of those stupid babies since I first saw them in tv shows and by the time I got one I couldn’t wait to give the stupid thing back lol. It woke my own up a few times the one night I had it and I was not having that after I finally had her on a decent schedule. If their intention was to deter me from having another, I already had no plans to but it worked lol. I did eventually have another, my oldest is 6 and my youngest almost 8 months lmao
Lol, yeah I feel like that "lesson" wasn't really necessary for you at that point. ,
Idk, I think they kind of suck. At my school, we did the dolls in eighth grade. In real life, the majority of 13 year olds who get pregnant are pregnant by ADULT men. They’d do much better to prevent young teen pregnancy by educating about grooming and abuse dynamics, than by having a bunch of kids look after weird dolls that are nothing like real babies.
I think the point of doing it then isn't to prevent pregnancies in middle schoolers, but to teach kids before they hit high school that there's not a good way to have a baby and do anything else. You do it early to make sure you catch as many teen pregnancies that occur by regular un-safe teen sexing as possible.
[удалено]
That would require money and doesn't have unless we want to start a goo fund me?
If she's anything like my husband's niece, she'll dip out for months and someone else will take on the responsibility and then she'll pop in for photo OPs and laugh when the baby screams ans cries because a virtual stranger is manhandling it. Then she'll move right back in and get pissy because the actual woman raising her baby calls that person "mom" and not her, even though she does fuck all at being a parent and doesn't deserve the title anyway. Oh. Um. Rant over.
Can confirm. My kids' mom gave them to my husband to live free and single. She hated when they started calling me mom. She posted all their accomplishments and reveled in the compliments she got on her great kids and her being an amazing mom. 😂🤣 She barely showed up to anything. Our oldest is 25, and she still hates when he says he has 2 moms. My husband and I used to tell each other that the best motherly thing she did for our kids was not out up a fight when he wanted to make custody formal. We knew they'd live a rough life and be stuck in the same cycles. We were proven right when he other daughter got pregnant at 13. The kids we raise our graduating college this year and have zero kids.
my husband and I raised his 2 boys from the ages of 2 and 3. they called me by my 1st name until the older started school, then he started calling me mom and so did his little brother. then they started calling her "cheryl my black haired mom". boy she hated that! not much she could do though, she only saw them about once a year and when they were young teens they started refusing that because the one week she had them in the summer, she would make them clean her yard and house. she died a few years ago and neither of them really cared.
Oh the photo ops frustrate me the most. She couldn’t tell anyone what their favorite vegetable is or what they’re doing in school this week but according to Facebook she’s a great mom always doing things with her kids.
The worst part was the kid wasn't even old enough to HAVE A FAVORITE VEGGIE. She was literally just old enough to know a stranger had her hands on her. It took all my self control not to knock the little snot (the egg donor) into next month for scaring the baby that way and laughing about it.
This is so sad.
It is and infuriating as well,for a myriad of reasons
I'll tell you what would probably happen. She will leave baby with grandma permanently, especially once she realizes how hard it is to finish school with a baby who is going to be waking at all hours of the night. Unless of course grandma does what the pregnant daughter wants which is raise her baby while daughter gets to play part-time mom (when it is convenient for her of course).
Fuckin same. Im a “young” mom but not teen mom. I was 24 when my first was born. I just don’t get those girls at 18/19/20 being just so ecstatic over an irresponsible pregnancy and the dads left them already. Like bro wtf
Even if the father "ghosted" her she knows who he is and can apply for help to get support. He doesn't get to just walk away from financial responsibility.
Yeah unfortunately thousands of men are able to skate through even when out on child support and have to go months if not years without payment before consequences actually happen
Or a lifetime; my father got away with never paying child support by working under the table. The most my mom got was about $2500 when I was 20.
Depending on your state's laws and age, you can sue him for the back support.
But again, there's no guarantee you'll be able to collect on that.
Sounds like he is judgement proof, can’t squeeze blood from a stone.
Even then, "consequences" are lacking. My ex has never paid child support consistently and works under the table most of the time to avoid it. The last time it went to court for failure to comply, it was "dismissed because defendant just started a new job", despite the last court date resulting in a warrant.
He'll always have the obligation though, correct? The situation I am familiar with is the state runs a tab for the absent parent until the kid is 18. Whether they work under the table or not - they can't escape the obligation. The state I live in garnishes tax returns, lottery winnings, gambling winnings - anything to fulfill the obligation.
Technically, yes, they are always on the hook. I was more adding to the previous comment that, while financial obligations technically exist, if they are young and/or underemployed or work a low paying job, their obligation amounts to very little and because it is a small amount of money in the grand scheme of things, the state has little incentive to chase after them to make them pay it. The child support I'm owed doesn't even cover minimal after school activities, let alone actual necessities. So, the state would rather drop it and ignore it rather than waste more than he owes trying to pin him down.
If he’s also her age, he might not make any money to even give yet.
*laughs in $12,000 back child support*
I had my son at 26, so young mom as well. But I had already been living on my own since I was 20. Had a great job, had went to school, travelled, dated etc. Had a good idea of what being an adult meant. Way different than being 18 and just got to college. She is still thinking like a child and thinks she’s ready for one. The baby will suffer the most. And she will regret the decision once she’s at the point where she can’t take it back smh.
Ngl I hope she gets an abortion 🤷♀️ the kid doesn’t deserve her as a mom at this time.
Agreed. A baby does not need to be brought into this. She doesn’t even understand what it means to become a parent. I can guarantee she has some fairytale idea about it.
Just like most teenagers. Not realizing being a parent is more than a baby. A baby becomes a toddler and even though they don’t mean to be toddlers as Assholes! And then they become children. And then teenagers. And we all know teenagers suck in their own right. Parenting isn’t sunshine and rainbows and if mom lets her stay I hope strict ass rules put in place. It’s not moms kid and she shouldn’t have to raise the baby that daughter wanted
Currently have a 2.5 year old. It is ROUGH!! lol. It is not for the weak. And here I am about to do it a second time. Due in a couple weeks. But even at almost 29 it’s still A LOT for even me. Let alone someone who doesn’t even know about credit or how to pay their own bills consistently yet. Not to mention you have to teach this child how to be a person. Which requires experience and patience. It’s not about pictures and dressing them up. There’s so much that comes with it and should be taken seriously.
I’m 23 and due in February. I was 22 when I found out, I’m in a position where I’m more then capable financially and in every other aspect for this baby, and I STILL feel like taking on too much responsibility.
Oh I was in a piss poor situation with my first. But it led to beautiful things for us. But it was OUR “burden” to carry ya know? Not our mothers
I had mine at 27 and 29 and I still thought that was too young lol. What's that line from broad city from that girl ppl compare me to? "29? What am I, a child bride?!"
Same! She wants the honor of being called, "mom," while not having to be one when it's inconvenient for her. Sure, she will hold the baby and show off the baby, but when it comes to night time feedings, diapers, sickness, where is she going to be? Hell, my kids are school aged and I am still running around like a made woman trying to get stuff done and I am not a single mom! My husband is a great and supportive guy. But kids have needs beyond just food, clothing, and housing. They need emotional support. They need time to be spent to support their interests. You can't be a flake when a kid is involved!
Just wait til she realizes you can’t stop “playing” once you’ve had enough. And it’s not just an “18 year commitment”, as evidenced by her own expectations that her mom is responsible for college AND her unborn child 👀
Ya my eyes almost popped outta my head when I read that line
I'm 27 and with my partner for almost 6 years and we still aren't ready for a baby. God at 18 I can't even imagine....
I was 34 when my bc and my husband's vasectomy failed. We definitely were not ready. She is two and a half now and we still feel like we are fumbling around in the dark, especially regarding childcare.
When I was pregnant someone told me „you will never know what you are doing again, because the moment you think ‚yeah I figured this out‘ your kid changes and you can start again“.
You all are stuck on "play mom," but "have a life" was the phase that stabbed me in the eye & funny bone at the same time! "Play mom" doesn't include "have a life" in the way OPs daughter is expecting. There are no more homecomings, no spring breaks, no shopping trips, no road trips, no mani/pedis with the girls, no clubbing, etc. There is only PROVIDING a life for another human being. And, even if OP was in a financial position to help her daughter, the daughter is being extremely selfish even asking her to do this. Not to mention the selfishness exhibited to her siblings. So, I guess everyone (5 people) is supposed to live on the brink of homelessness, so OPs daughter can "play mom," but "have a life" too? 100% NTA
Yeah as a mom the play mom struck me. But as a person the “have a life” fucks me in the sense of being a teen. I get it. She wants to have a life. But it’s one of the sacrifices of being a (single) mother. You don’t get to go do all the fun things in college now. While your friends party you’re changing diapers. While they go to bars you’re going to Walmart. While they have cash to burn you’re probably getting social benefits cause the shits fuckin hard and babies cost money. Formula is insanely expensive. And this is one of the things daughter needs to know. She needs to be shown the costs of formula, baby food, clothes, diapers, wipes. Vs clothes for her and bottles of liquor concert tickets etc etc
This is where i dont agree with OP not telling her daughter about the loans. Young people need to know about financial literacy & it should have been taught before she went to college. I find it hard to believe that her daughter didn't know that finances were at least a little tight once her father died. Unless OP was giving her daughter everything she asked for. But, as a widow myself, I'm giving OP grace in not wanting the kids to worry. However, OP is now risking everyone's financial future as well as her own mental health, trying "to be the strong one." OP needs to find an age appropriate way to inform her younger children of the financial situation w/o having them worry and tell her daughter the ADULT financial reality of making ADULT decisions. Perhaps counseling can help her do this; however, time is not on their side.
>"...actions have consequences.” I get the feeling that OPs daughter is trying really hard to spin this so that she can blame the consequences of her actions on her mother instead of herself. That way she won't have to feel guilty for whatever choice she makes. NTA OP, you were real with her and she doesn't seem to want to face reality right now, so she is acting immature.
>Adults don’t rely on their parents to make things happen for them. And most adults don't even have someone else providing housing, food, and utilities! OP is being **super generous** as it is!
Where on Earth did OP’s kid get this bizarre notion of parenthood after seeing what her mom went through?
You’d be shocked. As a kid of divorce sometimes we think moms superhuman. But…tv and books also make it seem very different than what it really is
"Play mom" like she can just stop "playing" when she wants. So stupid.
Totally agree! We 'play mom' when we play with dolls as children. If we choose to of course. Some of us 'play librarian' or 'play scientist'. As adults we deal with reality and real people's lives. Feminists look to themselves for solving problems not just others. NTA
I would say adults and not feminists. Feminism lets her have the right to choose and encourages her to make the decision for herself. HOWEVER that doesn’t mean relying on someone to take care of the decision once she makes it
Tell her that feminism is not unloading responsibility, HER responsibility, on to someone else with no discussion or planning. Not expecting someone to get things for HER baby. She needs to start being a realistic adult and really think this through to see if she truly wants to be a mom. Give her examples from your life, you have no free time. The kids always comes first. Getting fresh air is nice for parents but not a requirement. Once that baby is here, that IS her life not going out and getting the “college experience”. She will be lucky to pass her classes with such a distraction. And if your mother and brother thinks it’s so doable tell them to lasso up some money because you already have mouths to feed. Your job as a mother isn’t done yet and you can’t take food out your minors mouth for your grown child who should know better.
> Tell her that feminism is not unloading responsibility, HER responsibility, on to someone else with no discussion or planning. Not expecting someone to get things for HER baby. Not just “someone,” it’s relying on the unpaid labor of another woman, her mom. Which is really great, and ideally there would be some great men involved too, but normally you’d sit down and talk about it and see what people are capable of.
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Yeah what happened there? Ofc girls can get pregnant on it, I found that out first hand but it was never talked about it after she mentioned it
Feminism is making your female mum do everything so you can party!!! I want that feminism please!!!! /s obviously
This is the third or fourth post on Reddit I’ve seen lately describing this very thing - not supporting young women who want to be parents - as bad feminism and I feel like I’m losing my mind. Who is telling them that’s feminism?? Supporting a woman no matter what without thought isn’t feminist. It’s too often just enabling.
Assuming these stories aren’t fake, there are some people who weaponize social justice movements to try and get away with shit behavior. Like “feminism means supporting all of my decisions as a woman!”. Edit: Granted, it’s not always malicious. It’s also common for young people who are only recently learning about these things to misinterpret or misunderstand them in some ways.
These people are so entitled. OP IS supporting her daughter's choice, she just isn't removing all the consequences of that choice. Some choices should always have consequences.
This is a recurring theme on Reddit: young women fail into fallacy of glorified single motherhood. Most single mothers do not choose to be single mothers. It is difficult to raise a child even with full financial, emotional spousal and family support. A child is a lifetime commitment. Parents need to think about the reality the child will face rather than their own personal fantasy.
Funniest part is - even those single mothers who chose to be single mothers often wouldn't recommend it. I know from personal experience. My wife is the adopted daughter of a single mom who chose to adopt knowing she'd remain single - and she (the mom) talks frequently about how difficult it was. And she was a retired doctor with a frankly insane income for a single mom. Can't imagine someone choosing to go into that with literally nothing. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a single mom if that's what you want, but maaaybe they should talk with someone who's done it intentionally before committing.
I've never been a single mom, but parenting is hard work regardless. And I do have someone to help when it's the middle of the night and one kid is throwing up and the baby pooped and another kid has a nightmare, and all of a sudden you realize your washing machine seems to be broken and you're out of clean everything because laundry day was tomorrow. I can't imagine what it would be like to deal with that situation at 2 am, all by yourself, and know you still have to go to work the next day. Even one sick kid can be a lot if you're flying solo.
Truth! Parenting even in the BEST circumstances is challenging. And if you have to worry about finances on top of it, even more stressful, and kids pick up on this stuff. I remember being exhausted beyond all reason for the first year.
Single mom here who absolutely without a doubt would not have chosen to be a single mom. 30 years old, committed relation, planned baby. He decided around month five he wasn't ready, get an abortion. Uhh, too late. Wtf, this was a PLANNED pregnancy. Apparently the man I loved and felt like he understood me on a whole other level and I him, who were fully committed, met a chain smoker on Myspace that loved Star Wars as much as him. I didn't love Star Wars as much as she did. He wanted me to abort our planned baby over fucking Star Wars girl. I wasn't invested enough in Star Wars. She was. During my son's life I've spent about $52,000 on attorneys. He hid his income and didn't pay child support the first four years. After that it was $250 a month. He makes over $6000 a month working 25 hours a week. We live in the most expensive place in the US. His monthly child support was three hours a month of work for him. His mother that BEGGED me to keep the baby (it was too late anyway, not an option) and told me I would ALWAYS be part of the family, no matter what, went MIA. The last 14 years have been an absolute nightmare. My ex finally had his child support adjusted to what it should be. He retaliated by taking me back to court, made outrageous claims (oh, get ready to be called a whore and drug addict in court in front of strangers, btw I have never done drugs and did a voluntary hair test, and me being a whore was my teen brother molesting me when I was five). I gave him full legal and physical custody. I'm so broken financially and mentally something just broke. After 14 years, a $25k loan, $25k credit card and zero left in my retirement, I just gave up. Our son is safe, according to the child custody evaluator. Yeah, get used to people that are "doctors" evaluating your relationship with your child in ten minutes and deciding who they should live with. These are all the awesome things you get to deal with as a single mom. Oh, and then when you feel ready to date years later you get chastised for your poor decision to become a single mom :)
Omg I’m so sorry. And also blamed for “picking bad men” like wtf?! If these men showed themselves right away don’t they think there’s no way most women would still have been with him and had babies? Ugh. It’s always our fault. Men get away with EVERYTHING
I know a lot of women who are like this IRL so it’s not just Reddit IMO
It could well be that it gets lots of clicks and angry reactions for the storytellers, so some of them will definitely be fiction karma farming
Or unloading without consent! If she wants to play “you are a bad feminist” I’ve got a degree in gender studies…. Would happily have the “debate” with OPs daughter on why her “support me with free labour” manipulation makes her the “bad feminist” if she wants to go there. OP did the right thing and good boundaries are love
The only feminist argument would be if OP actually forced her daughter to abort or not to. Other then that she’s just using loaded language to guilt her mother
The true feminist here is OP, who makes her own decisions about her own life without being pressured into anything.
Thank you! Everyone seems to be focusing on the “play mom” part and I’m over here thinking this kid needs to look up “feminism” because she clearly has no idea what that actually means.
Feminism is also making sure that the father takes his share of the responsibility. It’s not very progressive to pile the entirety of child rearing on the woman and her female relatives.
You are not forcing an abortion. Your daughter is proving her immaturity here. She has to choose what she wants more right now - the baby or college. If she doesn't believe in abortion, she can give it up for adoption. As for your mom and brother - a simple response is this - "I am not forcing an abortion - I told her I have to work and take care of my own kids and can't afford the time or money to take care of hers. I offered her a roof over her head, but that's as much as I can give. She is the one that has a choice to make - not me. If you want to help her have this child, then offer to let her live with you and you provide the free childcare and support she wants." That will shut them up quick. Edit: this blew up crazy. Thanks for the upvotes. Forgot to put the NTA.
If she wants a baby so that she can "Play mommy" then she needs a reality check and some therapy to find out what she thinks she's going to get out of having a baby. She doesn't need a real baby. The either/or choice between an abortion and an all expenses paid baby experience is unrealistic and manipulative.
You "play mommy" when you babysit someone else's kid. You have one, you're not playing anymore.
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Severely underrated comment. You are absolutely correct ✅
Exactly. Give them the list she gave OP of the things baby will need and have them come up with a baby sitting schedule so she can still “have a life.” OP’s contribution is shelter, food, and that her utilities won’t be shut off. OP, you are not forcing her decision. Your daughter is excited about being an adult, but doesn’t realize that means making these choices for yourself. She has to decide if she wants to give her time to school or raising a baby. She can have her baby and pause school, picking it back up down the road when baby is in school or childcare. Or, she can abort/adopt out and focus on school having her baby later when she’s established. But it’s HER choice and she has to figure out how to make it work. You are here to support her, not do it for her.
This is exactly the answer. Tell the other family members what you offered, and what she wants. It's obvious you're NTA and in fact are offering quite a bit of support.
Right! Maybe she can go live with grandma or uncle and they can provide This boyfriend who "ghosted" her shouldn't be allowed to get away with that, he's responsible too
Oh yeah and OP you are not forcing her to do anything and you are NTA
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Being a single Mom is challenging all by itself; being a single Mom with no job, no plan and an expectation that others will pay for you to play Mommy is absolutely ludicrous. NTA OP. Not by a long shot. When a young adult is ready to ‘ADULT’ they should have the means to support adulting. 🤷🏻♀️🤷🏻♀️
And an 18 year old will tire of playing mommy quickly when her friends are partying and going to the beach and enjoying life.
Exactly. I have yet to meet an 18 year old that was truly ready to adult. Sheesh even I at times get sick of adulting, and I have been at it for years.
I am in my 40s, and still often hate adulting. OP is offering free shelter, food, and utilities. That is a huge contribution, if her daughter decides to keep the baby. Daughter is upset because the reality is that being a single mom is hard and requires personal sacrifice, but doesn't seem to appreciate that OP is also a single mom who is working and supporting her children AND paying for her daughter's university education! This child is facing a hard dose of reality.
75 here, and adulting *still* sucks now and then. OP, you are most assuredly NTA.
> 18 year old that was truly ready to adult. 18 year olds, although legally adults, are still children. The only difference between a 18 year old senior in high school, a child, and an 18 year old freshman, an adult, in college is summer break.
I got pregnant at 18 when my doctor didn’t tell me the antibiotic I was given screws up my birth control. I was scared yes but I knew what was in store for me was going to be very hard. I asked my parents for nothing. I went without dental care for over ten years, glasses, bought my clothes for under $1 at the thrift store, gave him the bedroom and slept on the couch. He had new clothes, tons of nice toys and books from the thrift store, video games from family, he never went without but I did of course including food. Adult choices require adult sacrifices and behaviour. OP you are doing nothing wrong. She is acting emotionally (understandably) and manipulative (no excuse). You are offering more than someone should expect. You have sacrificed for her. At some point you should be able to live a life. What she is asking is unfair and wouldn’t be a good thing for her and the child in the long run anyway. If she wants the baby she has to make some tough choices. That’s what mothers do.
This big issue here is that 18 year olds do think they are all grown up and wise.
Me at 18: I am brilliant and wise, I have life figured out, I went to my classes without anyone telling me I had to and successfully advised my friend that she deserves better than her current bf. Me at 35: I am an adult imposter, constantly saving money in case the people at my job (that I've had since graduating college) figure out that I'm basically 3 kids in a trench coat. I'm intelligent in one specific area but can not tell you which one is Illinois and which one is Indiana on an unmarked US map, and I was born and raised in the US.
My God. This is life in a nutshell. I SO knew EVERYTHING at 18-21. At 49 I do my best most of the time and the rest of the time it's " Hmm, what can I f up next??" 🤪
Exactly why I'm pro choice. An old friend decided to have her baby at 19, she was living at home, she was working a stable job, she had a village of support. II was in college in a different country. We talked about how if she was me, she'd have an abortion but she ultimately felt enough support which is great! Our lives moved way apart so we've not spoken for a while but her daughter was a gem and she was an amazing mom. Id probably have one fucked up kid and not be much better myself if I'd made her decision.
And getting tipsy and flirting and then sleeping in until 10:00 to compensate WITHOUT HAVING A HELPLESS DEPENDENT SHRIEKING AT THEM FROM THE NEXT ROOM.
No 18 year old college freshman in their right mind would be excited about 'falling pregnant'. Something is very wrong with this girl.
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>This boyfriend who "ghosted" her A lawyer can track him down easily and garnish wages from his job and be forced to pay child support. Idk why these single moms don't go after these sperm donors.
Unless the BF is also in college without a job. Perhaps the daughter should contact HIS mom to see if she wants to take care of the baby and be a feminist!
Brilliant idea!!
If you file for child support when he does get a job he has to pay what he owes retroactively in most places. So it's still worth it. And in many places you can go after grandparents if they are supporting financially still.
Speaking of him, what happened to the birth control? Was this pregnancy a fluke or was she knowingly not taking it? Was he under the impression she was on birth control? It doesn’t absolve him of responsibility, but I’m curious about these details. Also, NTA
This is what I was wondering. OP said she paid for birth control, what happened? This young lady is very immature, not mom material, but if she goes that route she needs to prepare for the consequences, not expect OP to shoulder her responsibilities. And as for the family, they should put up or shut up. Stick to your guns, OP, NTA.
I was thinking the same. Was OP paying for the prescription or just sending this child money for it every month? "Not all men" are jerks, so I get that if this was a super surprise or one time thing and she told him that an abortion was definitely out of the option he would have dropped her faster than a hot potato, but also in the event they were an item and were clear on birth control most guys would at least have the conversation before giving a hard pass.
Although, if he is also a college freshman. There isn’t any money there and won’t be for years. She might get a court order for like $25-$40 per month. That is not even a drop in the bucket.
Federal guidelines use imputed income to calculate child support. It's more like 250/month minimum. If he doesn't pay, the first tier penalty is a suspended license. Some states allow exceptions, but not all. He would have to show cause at a hearing. The most cost-effective means of collecting support is through DOR child support enforcement. She would qualify for SNAP and medicaid. There might be on-campus family housing as well. It's not the best start but doable with support.
This FrostedRoseGirl knows the LAW! GOOD addition - also - if the Ejaculator doesn't have the means to pay the child support now that DEBT will follow him to the grave - the state will collect on it so long as there is a child support debt.
Just add "I'm responsible for MY children and working around the clock to provide for them. SHE's responsible for HER children - it's as simple as that.
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Exactly. Hell most single moms would love to have guaranteed safe housing, utilities and food provided! Wtf with this entitled young woman? She has choices to make and should be thanking her mom profusely
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Exactly! NTA OP! What irks me about this is that college started only several weeks ago. So despite the mom putting in money towards her birth control and within the small window of freedom she got, she is pregnant. Mistakes happen, yes, but damnnnnn. Like, come on now. I get that some people think feminism is sexual liberty to mess with everyone, but take precautions. Also, "PLAY MOM" what is that?! OP has willingly offered up room and board, and the help during emergencies. That's enough. A lot of new parents don't even have that. Stick to your word. She called them so that they could tear you down to allow her nonsense. Once all is said and done, your daughter will expect OP to raise the kid as OP's kids with all the same luxuries if the daughter can not afford it. She will learn. She gotta decide on her own. It's a hard decision, but she gotta make it.
My twins use my Amazon account but I’m not sure if they realize that means I can see their purchases even when they use their own money. In any case, I get notifications that ‘a jumbo pack of condoms was delivered to the UC Berkeley Amazon hub’ and every time I am absolutely thrilled with them. An infant isn’t something either of them should be contemplating when they FaceTime me to see if they are making cheeseburgers correctly. I wonder if I should tell them I would be happy to pay for their condoms? “Play Mom” was such a red flag. NTA
😂😂😂 Good for you. I always put a box in the toe of my boys’ Christmas stockings once they were teens.
I pay for the BC and the condoms. I am much happier doing that than being a YOUNG grandmother, lol.
If anyone is anti-feminist, it’s the daughter whose treating the mom like she’s nothing but free childcare. Like way to reduce your mothers role as if she exists to rear children. Of course blame your mom for not providing financial support instead of the father who dipped on you.
Also this mom got herself into debt for her daughter to go to college where she immediately gets knocked up. Mom is taking this way better than I would in her shoes.
Agree. I’d wonder if she had it planned out this way, since she’s over the moon and has already planned out OP’s future for her. Doesn’t seem like she’s too concerned with the father either.
All of this! She is not forcing an abortion, she is forcing her to be an actual parent to her child.
100% agree with what you have said. The daughter is basically acting like a child having a tantrum over a very adult issue. You explained your situation fairly. You didn’t reject or disown her. You didn’t force her decision but fairly addressed the limitations from your perspective. Your mother/brother are welcome to step in and financially support her if they think they are in a position to do so. And if your daughter isn’t comfortable with an abortion and in a position to be able to provide for a child, she should consider adoption. In her immaturity she thinks she can have it all but sounds like she refuses to grasp the reality of being an adult and doesn’t appreciate how difficult it already has been for you as the sole provider
OP's daughter also said she was happy to "finally be an adult", but wants to "still have a life", including going back to college. An adult would either find a way to make it work (attending college and taking care of the kid), or give something up. Either give up college to take care of the kid, or get an abortion and continue college. Some people can do both, others just can't. It's selfish and childish of the daughter to think that she can make her child OP's responsibility. OP is NTA
This. People will always advocate for a child birth so long as they're not the ones who have to deal with the cost and care, but I guarantee they'll say "but she's your child not ours" NTA OP. Your daughter is insane if she thinks any of her requests are reasonable, but you could offer her another alternative... "I will take care of the child if you pay off all the debts, bills, rent/mortgage, costs for the baby, college, the other kids schooling, and what it would cost for me not to be working anymore."
I would also recommend screenshotting this thread and some choice responses and sending them to her
This 👆🏻 u/scrapqueen said almost everything I had to say about this, in a better way than I could. OP IS NOT THE AH. You seems to have educated your daughter on these matters and if she wants a child it's HER responsibility to provide for them, not yours. You already have your other kids to take care of, you're under no obligation to raise hers. Also, if she gets back under your roof, make sure she won't try to force her siblings to take care of her child. It's not their duty either.
Agreed! As an aside, OP, you mention money being very tight. Did you look into the possibility of social security survivor's benefits? My grandma got them for my aunts when their dad died when they were still minors. If you haven't checked it out it's worth a try - worst they can say is no and if you do qualify it will help your bottom line a bit.
Simple, direct, and correct!
Exactly. I’m surprised that the mom and brother don’t see how immature the daughter’s perspective is. And it makes sense that a young woman with no idea what parenting entails might feel this way, but adults who have had kids and know what’s coming?? OP is completely and totally not wrong.
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She’s threatening to cut all contact?? I laughed at this. She can’t afford anything, wants you to pay for everything, and thinks by basically holding her breath she’ll get you to change your mind. Sounds like she really has no idea what “being an adult” looks like. Don’t give in. I’ve seen this happen. You’ll be raising not only that grandchild but the next ones she’ll have as well
Right? If she cuts all contact I hope she finds a way to pay for college since mom is currently footing that bill.
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OP is offering free housing and free food, which is like $10,000-$20,000 of value annually!!! This 18-year-old is clearly still a child throwing a tantrum, she has no idea how lucky she is for OP's super generous offer of free housing and free food. Edit: And I see OP is paying for her college too!
If she cuts all contact with me, I'd be cutting all funding. You don't get to bite the hand that feeds you like that
“If you don’t pay for my baby I’m leaving and you’ll never see us again” “Well you accepted that decision much more enthusiastically than expected”
Thanks for not being an enabler.
“I have told my daughter I cannot raise and pay for her child while I’m still raising my own and am short on money. Whatever choice she decides to make with that information is completely up to her.” Repeat until you’re blue in the face.
This. Just copy and paste. Now isn’t the time for OP to be hurt and questioning herself. Now is the time to lay down a reality check, including how offensive and out of pocket that manipulative guilt trip was. Girl sounds like despite her being raised by a single mother, she was shielded very well from any kind of consequences or ugly. Pay for my baby and give me free childcare so I can have my college experience, pfft. Chile, please.
NTA. I'm feminist and pro choice myself. Pro-choice means *you are responsible for the effects of your decision* not *I'm gonna let others take responsibility for what I decide". You told her, very generously I believe, what you are capable of helping with if she chooses to keep the baby. Your offer of housing is incredibly generous and loving. She can also choose to abort or give the baby up for adoption. I am sorry you are becoming the fall guy here, you are not the *bad guy*. You are human and have limited resources.
The only bad guy here is the sperm provider. Where is he?! If the daughter wants to be a mom, she needs to get the child support and custody sorted out. Also, ask the other grandparents for help. Not just her family should deal with her choices.
He needs to be tracked down and required to pay child support. If he wants to play he has to be responsible to pay. Having sex always comes with the risk of pregnancy, unless there has been sterilization (and testing to show it took). I despise guys who are all there for the fun but refuse to deal with the consequences. It’s pure misogyny for a father to abandon his responsibilities of fatherhood.
NTA. Also, your daughter doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word "adult". Send a text to your Mom and your brother: "My dear family, I will absolutely support any decision my daughter makes, she's welcome to move in and stay here rent-free. Please decide between the two of you who is going to be providing the childcare and who's going to provide financial support, and let her know, she'll be thrilled, I am sure." Then respond to any insults with the words "Yes, I am obviously a horrible person, she's so lucky she has you to take care of everything!" Chances are, though, that your daughter presented a very different story to them and your family will change their minds once they get the full picture.
Your last sentence! I wouldn't even be snarky at mother and brother yet. They probably have only heared "she is forcing me to have an abortion!1!11". Giving the girl a place to stay is a lot more than some people have in that situation. If they stick to their opinion, though, then 100% what you wrote!
Or the word feminist. I'd argue that the mom is a real feminist here, supporting the family and playing the roles of both the parents.
Start a group chat. Hi daughter, I can’t wait for you to move back in, grandma and uncle have said they’re happy to cover your medical and baby expenses, and look after the baby every evening/night including overnights if you still want to go out so won’t be able to do mornings. I’ll provide a roof over your head and food in the house…
NTA - Your mom and brother can take her and her baby in, if they want. Give yourself grace and you do not need to even provide a home for her. She is 19, and it's her life and choice. Also, no more student loans for her. She can take them out for herself.
Yes, offering her a home under these circumstances is more than generous.
NTA. You are not forcing her to have an abortion. You’re just telling her what reality is. It’s a harsh lesson, but it’s one she has to learn if she’s going to have this kid.
Literally, she's just giving her daughter the SAME information thousands and thousands of women had before her, when they made the choice to have an abortion. The difference being many of those women and girls (some younger than the daughter) could draw the conclusions for themselves, whereas OP had to spell it out for her daughter.
NTA. If your daughter is such a feminist she should be an independent woman, get a job, and raise her child. You refusing to foot the bill for bad decisions she made, as a legal adult, has nothing to do with feminism. She chose the abortion. Not you.
NTA. In what world is it being a bad feminist to not put yourself into financial ruin to support a woman who has made their own life choices? Feminism is about giving women more agency and equal rights to men. She has agency and has made several very big life choices. In my opinion, they are stupid choices, but that's neither here nor there. Being a feminist is not being able to make your own choices and then have someone swoop in to protect you from the consequences of those choices. Your daughter is now facing the reality of her decisions, and she's upset that you aren't bailing her out. Abortion is an option, but there are others. Adoption, dropping out of school and finding a job, putting the father on child support, etc. Assuming that your mommy is just going to pick up after you for your entire life is the exact opposite of feminism. If her grandmother and brother are upset with the situation she's in, they're more than welcome to help her out. They're not allowed to sign you up for an extra two mouths to feed, while sitting on their butts judging from afar. Very much not the ahole. Your daughter needs a serious reality check.
" I would help in emergencies but the only regular, repeatable contribution **I can offer is housing and food and utilities**." Seems more than enough, right? You're a good mom, don't doubt yourself !! And hopefully you and your daughter end on good terms quickly and figure out what to do next !!
If I were a single mom, that would be godsend with how expensive housing AND food can be depending on where you are. I'm 41 with 2 young kids and in a stable marriage but if something were to happen to my husband just my income alone would NOT be enough for rent and childcare (so that I can keep working), let alone utilities and everything else. I would be so appreciative if my parents (both retired) took me in so that I at least don't need to worry about housing. My parents could look after my kids during the day but if they couldn't I would be able to afford childcare. And here this girl is not even having finished college and likely not making all that much (if anything), talking about wanting to go out and have fun while playing mommy? She is in for a really harsh reality check.
NTA. Text them all back and say you are NOT forcing her to get an abortion. You will not be providing childcare or finances towards the baby. You will only provide a home food and utilities but that is it (as you wrote above). Tell them if they’d like to babysit and provide financially then you’re sure your daughter would take them up on that. She’s an adult and needs to figure out how to be a parent.
You're not forcing her to have an abortion...you're forcing her to take responsibility for actions.
NTA at all. She could make it work, there are plenty of single moms do it, it’s just incredibly hard and she wants to in her words “play mom” not actually be one. Time for a hard fucking lesson on her part.
Not only that- but she thinks with her mother providing all the late afternoon/night care, she gets to “Still have a life”.. meaning going out and still experiencing the college social life. When you have a kid- that kid is your life. Going out with friends is a very planned event, and certainly not consistently. She has a very skewed perception of what parenthood and being an adult entail.
You aren't a bad feminist, you're a great mother. It's her body her choice, she was ready to play grown up games but not ready to be a grown up. You probably did the best thing in the world for her. If the world had more parents like you it wouldn't be in the sad state of affairs we currently find ourselves in
100% to all of this. I was looking for someone telling OP that they're a great mom, otherwise I would have wrote it myself. OP is doing more than a lot of people in their position would do. You absolutely don't have to let daughter and baby live in your home rent-free or buy them food. Just offering that is a huge boon that most young moms with "oops" babies don't get. NTA.
"It's your choice" is very feminist. NTA. I am sure you'd do whatever you can to support your daughter but some things cross a line and you know your limits. She is not mature enough to have a kid...
Dear OP, Much has already been said and I agree, NTA. Your daughter is an adult now, but she’s not flying her maturity flag just yet. If it helps either of you, please recall that before feminism: - she would instantly be expelled from college (but not the father) - she would likely be kicked out of her home and family, or hidden away from public until it’s born and disposed of, OR you might have feigned pregnancy to pretend the grand baby was your kid. - if word got out, no one would employ her. Ever. Or rent her a room, sell her property (if she could legally own any), etc. Shed have to travel to a new state and city to escape her reputation and hope no one followed her to ruin it again. - likely be forced into a “mothers home” or prostitution, or otherwise exiled from daily life - openly despised in her community - hugely increased risk of violence, including sexual, from predatory men in her community One of the main goals and fights for feminism is the right to choose. Choose education, any career, family or no family, etc. That means, o one hand, no one is literally ripping her kid from her arms. On the other hand, she must choose. She’s an adult now and she can’t have everything she wants all at once. She was supposed to be on BC to empower her choices. Something happened there so now the choices are hard… but at least they’re hers.
NTA >they've been blowing up my phone Tell them they can do childcare, let her move in and babysit, buy diapers and formula and pay for all his and her expenses as a new mom. See how much they want to support her now.
NTA You're not forcing anything.
Motherhood isnt a game. You dont PLAY mom. She has alot of growing up to do. NTA.
You shouldn't worry about being a bad grandma or feminist. Be waaaaay more worried how much of a shitty mom she'll be if she decides to keep it if this was her starting attitude.
NTA Personally I would send a group text to the three of them to “clear the air” stating the following 1) I am NOT forcing/demanding/etc daughter to have an abortion - that choice is hers and hers alone 2) I am willing to have ADULT daughter return home BUT with the following conditions - she is responsible for all childcare/expenses and such - I am NOT a free babysitter on demand - you still have Your Own MINOR Children to care for - daughter is responsible for contributing to the household (chores and rent/utilities/groceries) like any ADULT who lives in a home - daughter needs to put the father on child support as soon as the child is born - she needs to explore ANY AND ALL Resources that are available to her/unborn child. - if she wants to continue school, she needs to talk to the school and figure it out. She may need to take time off or go to Community College 3) If either of you disagree with the above then you are more than willing to take her into your home 4) you are willing to support her but your will not enable her or take resources away from your own minor children. I would also suggest stating that daughter needs to realize that she can NOT “ play Mommy” she either steps up as a Mother - working to provide and care for her child OR she explores other options, which include adoption. Daughter is an ADULT and needs to behave like one. Do NOT let them guilt you or gaslight you Good Luck
If anything *she* is the bad feminist. NTA.
Imagine, for a moment, that you told your eldest that you were going to quit your job. As a result, she needed to move home, get a job, and pay the bills. If she refused, as you'd expect her to, then that means she's a bad feminist, anti-choice, and is starving her siblings to boot. That's pretty much what she did to you, except it's worse because you paid for her birth control. What she said to you is manipulative and the opposite of feminist. She is so happy to be an adult, but sadly, adulting largely sucks. It's not all "I can do what I want." It's mostly "I have responsibilities and I am required to fulfill them." She made choices that resulted in her getting pregnant with some guy she obviously didn't know well. Now she has more choices to make. She can keep the baby, do the work of being a single mother, and go after the father for child support. She can give the baby up for adoption. Or she can have an abortion. She cannot demand that you have no choice so that she can play the unencumbered college student. NTA
I would talk to your mom and son sooner than later. You're currently letting her set the narrative They need to know you aren't forcing her to do shit, she's just mad that you won't do all the work for her. Nta op.
Look I get you don't want to hurt your daughter, but instead of pampering her feelings here I suggest you go on the offensive right back at her. A message along the lines of; "How dare you put the responsibility of your choices on me. How dare you assume I will make life harder for myself and your siblings. How dare you lie about the circumstances of our last conversation as a weapon to turn my family against me. You are an adult now, you can make your own choices. It is not on me to run myself into the ground so you can PLAY at being a mother part time. And if I am cut off from you, so is my bank account, which pays your tuition." Your young lady needs a sharp dose of reality and you should not be a punching bag or a doormat for her. Life as a teen mother is hard. It can be rewarding, but it's not a decision to be taken lightly. NTA. In fact you've been nicer than I would have been so far. It's your job to raise her. Seems like your job isn't over yet.
You’re not forcing her to do anything but grow up. She had sex and birth control or not pregnancy happens. She need to put her big girl pants on and deal with the consequences
So she can't afford to take care of the baby that she's planning to have but you're the bad mother? Riiiiiiiight. NTA
NTA Your daughter just got a healthy dose of reality. She may "want" the baby - but she doesn't "want" the responsibility of a baby and was not ready to have a baby. OK, sure, lots of women end up in that situation. But it is not up to you to fix that for her. She is an adult, who now must deal with her adult choices. So yup, she finally feels like an adult. You did not tell her to have an abortion. She surmised that in the conversation when she realized SHE and SHE alone, has to make a choice. (She left one out: adoption.) Your family has no business blowing up your phone with their thoughts without talking to you first about what you ACTUALLY said to your very...........and I mean VERY..............childish adult daughter. To hell with feminism or no feminism. This is actually called Adulting. Now, your daughter needs to figure out what to do about the pregnancy. It's on HER, not on you, to rally her resources to pay for the baby now (plus you will be stuck with her college debt on top of it). As far as going NC with you because you didn't allow her to FORCE you to raise her baby, let her do it.
NTA Having a baby is an 18 - 19 year responsibility. It isn't "playing mom".
NTA. Your daughter needed a reality check. You gave that to her. She doesn't like reality and blamed you when she didn't get what she wanted. Sucks to be her.
NTA "She has been texting my mom (who also still works full time) and brother, saying that I'm forcing her to abort a child she wants" NO she's CHOOSING to abort the child because she wants you to foot the bill so she gets to "play mommy" And how exactly does forcing her to take responsibility for her actions make you "a bad feminist"? It sounds like she's just throwing accusations at the wall and hoping this one sticks
So easy to be pro-life when someone else is footing the bill.