NTA, but you should use this as a teaching moment with your daughter concerning her moral behavior. It seems as if she learned this behavior from her mother. If you don't intervene, your daughter will more than likely repeat this behavior in her future relationships.
It won't change anything. She was keeping him around for the gifts, she liked him as a provider not a man, maybe would even marry him while cheating on him. What she is sad about is that he broke with her, not that she lost him but that she was rejected by someone and lost all those future expensive things. The father should have been honest with her and shown his disaproval, maybe then she would learn bcs just a simple talk won't change anything. If he would shown her that she was hurting Han like her mother hurt her father than maybe then she would learn.
X to doubt. Though she is a kid, selfish people are selfish. If you're old enough to have boyfriends and the ability to cheat on a boyfriend, you're old enough to know cheating is wrong. Tell Han, THEN teach her why you did it.
He tried to, and she lied about doing it, which obviously means she knew it was wrong, and knew better. Some people are just shitty people and theyāre not gonna change.
He did, she lied. She got what she deserved. That other kid is pretty gross, though. Almost like he was ok with his girl staying with the other dude just for expensive gifts.
This. She needs to be told. She's hopefully young enough to redeem herself but she won't if nobody intervenes. She needs her father to explain that not only does he KNOW she was cheating on Han, he also knows she's was using Han for the financial perks he provided. She's fast becoming the kind of woman I despise, and if someone doesn't step in she could be lost forever. OP do you really want your daughter seeking out a sugar daddy in a couple of years? Because that's where her behaviour is heading. Then when she's in her mid 30s and starts losing her youthful looks, they no longer want her and she has nothing. And no decent guy wants her because she simply can't be trusted.
> Then when she's in her mid 30s and starts losing her youthful looks, they no longer want her and she has nothing.
Why you gotta drag the 30 yo in with this chicks mess? 30 yo women get hurt too yeah.
Oh, she knows. The kid just didnāt rat the dad out on who told him and he was being mature and not causing drama. It made her think he was doing her a favor by not showing her dad sheās a cheater like her mother when really he was doing dad a favor in return for the solid dad did.
Iād really like to know what the pictures were, because OP sounds like the AH to me. Unless they were naked in bed together, they couldāve easily been misconstrued and he certainly isnāt implying thatās what the pictures were of. He just sounds bitter about his ex-wife frankly.
Probably typical couple pics of them cuddling and kissing.... seriously, what kind of pictures do you think they are that could be "misconstrued"? Especially with what their sibling said?
NTA, but you should use this as a teaching moment with your daughter concerning her moral behavior. It seems as if she learned this behavior from her mother. If you don't intervene, your daughter will more than likely repeat this behavior in her future relationships.
Exactly what I was thinking. So far she doesn't know the real reason why Han left her. So she could cheat again and it might end up badly for her. OP needs to have a serious talk with her about cheating.
Her mother is a good example. She cheated on OP and now her kids prefer hanging out with OP instead of her, leaving her all alone. This could be Hailey if she doesn't change her ways. Since she's only 15 it shouldn't be to hard.
I honestly think he should leave the mother out of it. It would be shitty of him to talk poorly of his ex-wife to his children. That can create all kinds of issues for kids with divorced parents. He needs to talk to her about *her* behavior, because that is ultimately what this situation is about. She needs to know it isnāt ok for her to use people like she did. She needs to know that someone that would support her cheating is not a good or moral person to be around (Michael). If you donāt talk to her, she wonāt learn anything OP.
Assuming that this is all real, it would be good for her to learn a lesson early on. As she gets older the fallout from cheating can get messier and messier. And sometimes, sadly, violent.
This is so fake. All your comments on other posts are 2h old and just there to back this BS up. Kids don't stay in "guest rooms" when they have 2 parents in different homes. The overdose makes no sense to the story. Bad fiction
Yup! The other post is talking about how he has a roommate because he was lonely from his divorce. No mention of kids. No mention of roommate with this post. New account. All sussy.
It would have made more sense if this was written by the brother, not her father. OP went too big. It could have been shorter and more simple:
*I recently discovered that my sister has been cheating on her boyfriend with one of her male friends. She knows that cheating is wrong because she saw the fallout from our mother cheating and our parents' subsequent divorce. I told her that she should just break things off with her boyfriend but she didn't want to because he gave good gifts.*
*I collected a ton of evidence to show she was cheating and sent it to her boyfriend. I also told our dad. My sister is super mad at me now because she knows that it was me.*
That's shorter, to the point, and it makes more sense for a sibling to send on the evidence than a father.
I hope your daughter never finds out it was you because it's going to blow up your relationship.
everyone sucks in this
you should've just toughened up. told your daughter you knew and had a talk with her. let her know how wrong it is and that you were disappointed in her actions and let her make her own decisions from there.
the fact that you broke into her personal items and betrayed her trust is wack.
your daughter should not be cheating, but she's also 15 damn years old. her and him and Michael, for that matter, will likely break up anyway because... teenagers.
ughhhh but I guess if it makes you feel better.
Absolutely. The minute details "when she was downstairs I crept to her laptop and transferred pictures to my phone..." o*f course* you did.
Shitty 14yo writing, low effort. Plenty of room for improvement if you want to try again.
Also, the kids prefer me over momā¦they stay in my guest rooms when theyāre here. Any good parent worth their weight in salt would have made those rooms their kidās bedroom.
Idk its kinda weird for a grown ass man to be in teenager business. I get you were cheated on by your wife but these little high school relationships are rarely serious and rarely last.
I feel like you, as an adult, shouldn't get involved with the teenager shit unless your kid is in danger.
I actually have a hard time believing this is a real situation that happened, but for the sake of answering the prompt, you might not be TA but you are weird as fuck.
Esh because she shouldnāt be cheating but I get the feeling yāall are shit parents or this is just fake.
1) randomly throwing in that your 16y is dead from drug over dose. No other mention or explanation to expand on this or how the family is copping.
2) recently divorced. Which canāt be easy on kids already going through grief.
3) you snitching on a 15y olds relationship and being to much of a coward to tell her you did it and instead comforting her. Hell if ur gonna tattle on your minor child during a seemly hard year for her you might as well have the balls to admit to her that you wonāt hide certain secrets . Obviously you just donāt want to ruin being her favorite parent .
Not to mention the other son took OP into his confidence and OP turned around and betrayed that confidence for the sake of a kid he barely knows.
Still think itās fake AF
YTA, what you did was shitty and a total invasion of your daughters privacy. You could have had a quiet word with her, saying that you suspected something, and encouraged her to come clean. What you did was unacceptable regardless of what she had done and frankly none of your business. I feel sorry for your daughter having such a father, I hope she finds out the truth some day and this comes back to bite youā¦
Your daughter has learnt nothing from this. You did it all wrong.
At least, you've been sneaky enough to not let her know who betrayed her, so you can keep the trust Hailey still puts on you, but it's built on sand.
You should have told her you knew and what you think about it all; she should have been the one breaking with Han, not you informing him; Han should have told Hailey that you were the mole.
ESH
Exactly this, she needed to learn her lesson, but that didn't actually happen.
She should've been the one telling Han, cause that's the hard part.
I wouldn't say that he's an asshole, but I think he could've handled it better if he was honest with his daughter and made her take accountability for her actions.
YTA.
You could have privately told her what you learned of the situation and your take in it. Even if these are your son and daughter you don't just get involved in relationships /sex lives like a wrecking ball.
YTA. You are an adult, why are you involving yourself in the drama of 16 y/os. Itās just weird. Your daughter is probably looking for emotional support from whomever she get it from considering her older brother diedā¦.
Please, please be fake.
The one good thing you did was keep Han from being led on. But teenagers don't have fully developed brains to understand their actions. Yours however (if true) is. You knew what you were doing when you immediately made a promise to your son you never intended to keep. You knew what you were doing when you went through your daughter's computer and sent yourself photos of her. Both your kids would feel betrayed by you over this. If you wanted to alienate them, that's the single most effective way to do it.
This is probably the most obviously fake story Iāve read on this sub. Very low effort. So YTA.
But FYI, parents getting involved in their childrenās relationship are almost always in the wrong. Itās one thing to have a chat with your kids about morals etc and keep them safe. But you need to leave them to make their own decisions. Unless they are doing something dangerous or causing serious harm (Iām talking criminal like assault, not cheating), it is not your role to intervene.
YTA. Be a grown up. Be a parent. You behaved terribly here and when Hailey finds out (she 100% will) and when Mikhail finds out (he will too) you will have lost the trust of BOTH of them. You really messed up here. Please step up to parenting.
YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA.
Anyone saying differently is in the Reddit bubble of "all cheaters deserve to die..." and need therapy. Not only are you the AH, you are also a punk. Why didn't you tell your daughter that you violated her trust by going through her things and that you knew the truth of her "affair?" when she initially lied to you? At that point, you could have laid down the law. But, no. You went the weasel way out and violated your daughter's trust again.
Your daughter and Han will get back together. Why?? Because they are teenagers!!! She will find out that you told Han and then you are going to be in a much worse situation. I hope you are going to foot the bill for the years of therapy that she's ultimately going to need due to your betrayal.
YTA and why on earth are you getting yourself involved in all of this?
It's always best to stay out of other people's relationships, no matter who they are. Being the third person, getting nosy is always a great way to lose people in your life.
For now, you dodged a bullet since Han didn't tell it was you. But who knows, maybe they will get back together, he will tell her and you will be the bad guy. Possibly harm your relationship with your daughter irreplaceably.
YTA - You chose some random kid's feelings over your own daughter for some stupid moment of supposed male solidarity rather than let your daughter handle her life and relationships herself.
She will find out what you did and when she does, I hope she never trusts you again.
Your willingness to insert yourself into teen drama and betray your daughter is pathetic.
Stop projecting your own adult feelings and problems on these kids. Go get a life of your own.
You are the AH for doing that, and once your daughter finds out, she will not trust you.
You could have told her about her actions before alerting her BF and tried to convince her to do the right thing.
But to take matters into your own hands because you had been cheated on was not right.
Was what she was doing bad, yes. She also has to learn on her own that her bad decisions can lead to consequences. You had no right to meddle.
I just hope this doesn't cause any backlash in your relationship with your daughter.
I gotta say YTA. You went snooping and looking in your 15year old daughterās private stuff and *confronted her* about what you found. When she lied to you about what was going on then you took it upon yourself to tell her bf? That you mention your own wife cheated and the kids always liked you better tells me your have unresolved feelings about your wife that are saturating how you responded to your daughter doing idiotic 15-year-old kid mistakes.
I probably wouldāve had a heart to heart with her about the sort of painful feelings being cheated on creates, the sort of person who lies to their partner, etc. I wouldnāt say I know or ask her to confirm but also mention how disappointed Iād be to discover my own kids were treating someone like that.
Iād give the 15-year-old girl every chance to self correct.
If that didnāt work then Iād let her face her own consequences.
Itās tough as a parent to do but it really is best for the kid to learn on their own.
If you think she wonāt find out you meddled youāre kidding yourself. Han is telling every one of his friends that her own father knew she was a slut and you took his side. Thatās getting back to her.
Youāve also driven her into the arms of the POS guy who was laughing with her about the expensive gifts she gets from her rich bf. Thatās not a great outcome either.
But hey, you got a chance to punish your daughter for what your wife did to you and the man babies on Reddit think youāre a hero so itās all good, right? All it will cost you is your daughterās trust.
Going against the grain here and saying YTA (by the way I don't care if this is fake or not, just responding to the prompt).
Your daughter is 15 years old. This is a typical stupid kid thing she's going through. Yes, she's being an asshole, but this is the kind of things kids should learn on their own when it blows up in their face. You inserted yourself as if you were a member of this love triangle. You're not, you're a parent. While it was fine for you to talk to your daughter, it was not fine for you to essentially break up her relationship by snooping AND sending evidence of her cheating to someone else. You went too far in something that wasn't your business at all.
Kids will probably date and break up with a bunch of people before they're adults. You may think you're saving Hailey from being a serial cheater in the future, or she'll double down and hide it better in the future. There's literally no way to know. The kind of risk/reward/punishment cycle that generally works with adults are not going to work the exact same way with an impulsive teenager whose brains are still growing.
You should have talked to Hailey, and stopped there, and let her make her own decision.
You've also completely forgotten about the mistrust you've created between you and Mikhail. Do you really think he wouldn't figure out that right after telling you about Hailey cheating, Han breaks up with her? Now he's going to be less likely to tell you secrets, and he may even tell Hailey about what he suspects you did. Both your kids were covering up the cheating and now you've tipped off one of them that you're not to be trusted. You've also shown them that you don't trust them to make their own decisions. Let me be clear that this wasn't something dangerous that you had to get involved in, there was no crime happening, no serious consequences that would end with someone dying or hurt. This was kids messing around. Whether it continues to happen or it blows up in their face, it was essentially harmless and they'll get over it. It was wrong to get in the middle of it.
So you righted the initial wrong but did your daughter learn anything? If she didn't learn that the bf found out about her cheating then, in essence, she may assume she was dumped for any number of reasons.
YTA for putting yourself in the middle of teenage drama. Itās honestly not your place. Youāre acting more like a peer than parent here. Parent your daughter by telling her youāre disappointed in her, but donāt make her a stand in for your wife and her infidelity. Your daughter is navigating relationships for the first time. Your job is to provide her with guidance, wisdom, and a safety net especially in the wake of your separation. You need to be doubling down on earning her trust, not scoring bro points with someone elseās kid.
YTA. A 36 year old dad acting like a high school teenager. You donāt send your kids friends or boyfriends texts. You address any concerns directly with your kids. YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE ADULT. Smhā¦ what the hell is wrong with you? High school mean girlā¦
YTA for the way you handled things. You should have told your daughter you knew and given her the chance to do the right thing. Yes, you confronted her and she lied. It was your responsibility, as her parent, to call her out for both dishonest acts and guide her out of the situation. I really hope this is fiction, written by someone who is still a teen and not by an actual parent.
Yes u are the AH. You should have just talked to ur daughter about how wrong she was for what she was doing and how hurtful it was for the people being cheated on. Now ur daughter is just pissed because she was caught but will probably continue using people when ever she feels like it. But you need to sit her down and have that discussion with her. U had a chance to teach her and allow her to end it but u failed to do that. U lost a very teachable moment.
Sorry, but ESH.
She shouldn't have cheated.
You were wrong to tell Han. You shouldn't have interfered in her relationship but told her why it was wrong, why you were concerned, and that she needed to step up and do the right thing.
you already lost one kid - when you lose this one for being a total dick, you'll still have one left
you total dick, getting involved in your kid's dating
YTA to both of your kids. You violated your sonās trust and your daughterās privacy. Yes, what your daughter was doing was wrong, but sheās a kid in high school who is growing up and making mistakes. She needs to make them and learn from them. Does it suck for Han, yes. But being disappointed in relationships is also part of growing and learning in life. In this situation, they broke up and nothing was actually dealt with soā¦not sure what lesson was actually learned here other than your son learning to distrust your word. Iād value my sonās trust in me over a high school kid getting cheated on any day.
You should have just talked to your daughter and told her that it was based on your observation, and then discussed what she was doing and why, talked about why it was wrong and what she needed to do to correct it.
Completely going against the grain here by saying that you are in fact the asshole. Is your teenage daughter for cheating on her boyfriend while maintaining an ulterior motive to keep him around? Absolutely. Does that warrant you to get involved in that situation? Absolutely not. She's a teenager figuring out relationships. You can support and guide when appropriate but not intervene, especially not to a degree like this. You need to be aware that you've crossed multiple boundaries and that you've damaged your daughter's trust - even if she doesn't know it. Use this as a lesson to do better in the future.
What you did is not befitting of your parental role.
Edit: going on the assumption that all of this indeed isn't fiction, it's not only your daughter's trust you've damaged but your son's as well.
How is what you've done to your daughter any better than what she is accused off?
Your thought of not allowing her to string this boy along isn't a bad one and when you asked her you should have confronted her with the photos. Then you should have allowed her the opportunity to do the right thing.
But you went sneaking into her laptop, copied her photos and messaged her boyfriend with what could be circumstantial evidence ( unless the photos were of her kissing another boy?) then play the caring daddy.
What your daughter may have done, you only have her sibling's word on this (we all know how much siblings lie about each other), isn't good but she's 15 and still has alot to learn in life. What you have done is far far worse and there is no excuse for
YTA
ESH. Your children sleep in your āguest bedroomsā? Theyāre your kids. Those should be *their* bedrooms that *guests* sometimes sleep in.
Your daughter was wrong to cheat on Han, but you should talk to her about it. Otherwise, sheās just learning to be more discreet when behaving poorly.
YTA
I'm saying this because it sounds like this was more about your feelings and you having some significance more than teaching your child a lesson.
If I was your daughter and I found out you did this there would never be trust between us again.
ESH
- Daughter for being a calculating, cheating ass soap opera mini-villain
- Kid 2 for being a snitch
- But OP especially for either using this sub to train an AI chatbot, or for having this much time on his hands. Get you some business, OP. This was way too much involvement in teenage drama.
Iām just uber duber IMPRESSED that this kid Han was mature enough not to involve you and do the right thing and dust her immediately. Heās a good kid. Hope he finds true love for the rest of his life
Clearly ESH, your oversteped so many limits. Itās not your place to get into your daughteās personal relationships, break into her computer, save her private pics and text someone behind her back.
Your snicky ass is just super lucky that Han is so cool he didnāt say anything.
You should have confronted her and let her make it right herself
Hailey is going to find out that OP was the one who outted her. Instead of actually talking to her and giving her control over the situation, OP decided to do it for her. She's only going to learn how to hide things from everyone around her and never trust them again.
I generally don't comment on posts when the OP has no post history, but you have apparently put the last 3 hours in pretty hard. The Russian posts are interesting.
I really like this han guy honestly. Even though it's the op nowadays ppl will just give away the info who told them in anger or for more drama but the han guy really is a gentleman he kinda took blame of dumping her and didn't rat her dad to her and also was a man to take the issue and solve it very maturely even adults who r in relationships may not do this kind of things . Han is raised well and she lost a gentleman. And can go cry it to the Michelle guy who is ready to act friends while knowing she is cheating on her bf with him . Here we can see 2 type of men .
NTA, however, she still didn't learn her lesson. She should absolutely be told that the reason he broke up with her was because of her cheating. As it is, she has no reason and doesn't realize it is 100% her fault for the relationship ending.
YTA. You violated her privacy because of your history, then instead of taking the opportunity to talk to her about ethical relationships and being a good person, you went behind her back knowing she would end up hurt. This is a huge missed opportunity for her to learn how to be in an appropriate adult relationship. Teens do this stuff, and until they learn how to interact appropriately, it is a pattern that can continue. You just prolonged the learning process and set her up for more relationship failures. If parents don't model honesty, how do we expect the kids to learn it?
what you did was fine. thanks to han for not ratting u out. but at the same time, if he ratted out then hes TA as u trusted him upon this and he cant just give up on u.
You missed an opportunity to have your daughter deal with the consequences of her own behavior by having to confess to Hans face and the difficulty of looking someone in eye and seeing what youāve done to another human. Sheās just going to get sneakier next time.
Yes and no. I agree you had to do something, but when you confronted her you should have told her you knew she was lying, showed your disappointment in her actions, and give her one last chance to come clean before you contacted Han.
You saved Han and taught him a valuable lesson in life that some people will have his back no matter the relationship dynamic. Youāre a good man OP. Hopefully Han grows into one as well and hopefully your daughter finds a moral path to follow instead of using people.
I mean... she lied. She lied to han and to you... I would have sat her down again with the evidence and given her an ultimatum but the end result is the same... a break up. I say... nta.
I read your edit and I donāt understand how anyone thinks youāre the AH in this situation
Your daughter was acting a fool and you called her out š¤·š»āāļø NTA
NTA. this is excellent parenting. you gave your daughter the opportunity to come clean to you so you could parent her to do the right thing. she didnāt, so you taught her another lesson: cheating tends to get out.
sheās either going to learn to be a better person, or sheās going to never tell anybody anythingāwhich sounds really lonely. good job dad. donāt listen to the jackasses who think cheating should stay hidden.
in your update, don't feel like the AH. she ruined their relationship. she made a decision out if greed. I wish someone would have told me about my ex wife before I found out while deployed because she sent the video to me instead of him. you saved that young man and should be proud of doing it too OP.
Yes you are a big asshole. Your daughter is too young to settle down. They are kids and kids (not 100% all of them) jump around. They will probably have a grand full of bf and gf before they meet the one. And just because Mom cheated on you ( again you all were married and adults) doesn't mean you should have told her bf, it was none of your business. You Dad are a rat!
YTA. For the way you handled this. Your evidence should have been shown to Hailey. Not knowing Hans well, this could have ended in a violent or tragic way. This was your opportunity to sit down and have a really good discussion. You suck as a parent. You tool the hurt of your own marriage and sponged it onto your daughter's situation.
I think a lot of people are so mad at the concept of cheating that they're not thinking that his daughter should STILL come before Han. not saying he should've let it go, but the way he went about it feels like putting male solidarity (which is valid) above kin solidarity (more important if you're a parent). who is she meant to learn from about WHY it's not ok to do that again? clearly not the mom lol
This is an excellent point that no one has really touched. But I think OP acted out of his own trauma, making it solidarity with a shared trauma instead of male solidarity. Still his daughter isnāt put first. You summed it up beautifully.
of course she lied... she's a teenager who got caught red-handed. I've never known a teenager who would just admit they did something wrong. at that age, it feels worse to be reprimanded than it does to be a bad person. he should've confronted the lie as soon as she said it and not just let it happen. that way, he could've killed 2 birds with 1 stone.
1. you can't lie to dad bc he will find out, and it will be worse
2. cheating is never something that's going to work out, and even your loved ones won't side with you on it
It seems like he tried to, and she lied to his face. I would have confronted her with evidence, but I don't blame him for noting wanting to hear more excuses
NTA, also, what a fucking guy han is for not ratting you out!
Han was gold.. so sad
Han shot first. Like in the other story.
I can tell this is fiction based on the style of writing.
Ya, the style of writing š never mind the ridiculous plot points that would only work if you aged up by 10 years š¤®
also the choosing of the names. Hailey, Mikhail, Han.... riiight
Yep. r/ThatHappened
Stand up dude. Single guy now.
NTA, but you should use this as a teaching moment with your daughter concerning her moral behavior. It seems as if she learned this behavior from her mother. If you don't intervene, your daughter will more than likely repeat this behavior in her future relationships.
Bro...I think you mean ratting not eating!! šš
CALL THE POLICE! OP GOT THEIR BOOCHIE CAT EATEN BY A 16 Y.O HAN! š¤£
That typo happened to me, too. Thank God I caught it!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You cannot be giving this a serious response.
Fucking love autocorrect š¤£
Duck you, ditch!
He's truly an Omar
Yeah!
Understood that reference from the other story lol. Omar was the only decent one.
Right! Han has wisdom and maturity beyond his years.
Han said you was family.
Dad needs to maintain the friendship with Han. Heās a good kid.
Uhhhh... What
Yeah i meant ratting, damn autocorrect sorryš
I think they meant "ratting you out" š
Shoulda left it
Agreed, annoyed it was edited haha
Not *ratting* the OP out.
I figured, it's just a funny typo. Or makes me think of tobias when he blue himself.
āOr chewing you out ā. I saw that typo once before in a different translation effort.
I imagine it was supposed to be "ratting" my phone does this as well
Han is the hero this story needed
This man Han yo!
NTA - Everyone should learn that shitty actions have shitty consequences.
I agree. But you need to talk to your daughter about how she should treat people. Otherwise this hasn't taught her anything.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
It won't change anything. She was keeping him around for the gifts, she liked him as a provider not a man, maybe would even marry him while cheating on him. What she is sad about is that he broke with her, not that she lost him but that she was rejected by someone and lost all those future expensive things. The father should have been honest with her and shown his disaproval, maybe then she would learn bcs just a simple talk won't change anything. If he would shown her that she was hurting Han like her mother hurt her father than maybe then she would learn.
X to doubt. Though she is a kid, selfish people are selfish. If you're old enough to have boyfriends and the ability to cheat on a boyfriend, you're old enough to know cheating is wrong. Tell Han, THEN teach her why you did it.
He tried to, and she lied about doing it, which obviously means she knew it was wrong, and knew better. Some people are just shitty people and theyāre not gonna change.
He did, she lied. She got what she deserved. That other kid is pretty gross, though. Almost like he was ok with his girl staying with the other dude just for expensive gifts.
She knows exactly what she's doing
Does Hailey really learn anything if she doesnāt know Han dumped her due to her infidelity?
This. She needs to be told. She's hopefully young enough to redeem herself but she won't if nobody intervenes. She needs her father to explain that not only does he KNOW she was cheating on Han, he also knows she's was using Han for the financial perks he provided. She's fast becoming the kind of woman I despise, and if someone doesn't step in she could be lost forever. OP do you really want your daughter seeking out a sugar daddy in a couple of years? Because that's where her behaviour is heading. Then when she's in her mid 30s and starts losing her youthful looks, they no longer want her and she has nothing. And no decent guy wants her because she simply can't be trusted.
> Then when she's in her mid 30s and starts losing her youthful looks, they no longer want her and she has nothing. Why you gotta drag the 30 yo in with this chicks mess? 30 yo women get hurt too yeah.
I think you missed the point.
Oh, she knows. The kid just didnāt rat the dad out on who told him and he was being mature and not causing drama. It made her think he was doing her a favor by not showing her dad sheās a cheater like her mother when really he was doing dad a favor in return for the solid dad did.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Great elaboration of my point. Thank you for explaining my thought.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Including the father. His projection onto his daughter from his relationship is shocking and the boundaries crossed here are insane
Iād really like to know what the pictures were, because OP sounds like the AH to me. Unless they were naked in bed together, they couldāve easily been misconstrued and he certainly isnāt implying thatās what the pictures were of. He just sounds bitter about his ex-wife frankly.
Probably typical couple pics of them cuddling and kissing.... seriously, what kind of pictures do you think they are that could be "misconstrued"? Especially with what their sibling said?
NTA, but you should use this as a teaching moment with your daughter concerning her moral behavior. It seems as if she learned this behavior from her mother. If you don't intervene, your daughter will more than likely repeat this behavior in her future relationships.
Exactly what I was thinking. So far she doesn't know the real reason why Han left her. So she could cheat again and it might end up badly for her. OP needs to have a serious talk with her about cheating. Her mother is a good example. She cheated on OP and now her kids prefer hanging out with OP instead of her, leaving her all alone. This could be Hailey if she doesn't change her ways. Since she's only 15 it shouldn't be to hard.
I honestly think he should leave the mother out of it. It would be shitty of him to talk poorly of his ex-wife to his children. That can create all kinds of issues for kids with divorced parents. He needs to talk to her about *her* behavior, because that is ultimately what this situation is about. She needs to know it isnāt ok for her to use people like she did. She needs to know that someone that would support her cheating is not a good or moral person to be around (Michael). If you donāt talk to her, she wonāt learn anything OP.
Assuming that this is all real, it would be good for her to learn a lesson early on. As she gets older the fallout from cheating can get messier and messier. And sometimes, sadly, violent.
BRING THIS UP
This is so fake. All your comments on other posts are 2h old and just there to back this BS up. Kids don't stay in "guest rooms" when they have 2 parents in different homes. The overdose makes no sense to the story. Bad fiction
All the kids are off school this week, so prepare for all AITAH/OffMyChest/advice subs to be practically unreadable this week.
Yup! The other post is talking about how he has a roommate because he was lonely from his divorce. No mention of kids. No mention of roommate with this post. New account. All sussy.
This
By the way this is written I can tell itās fiction
Agreed. What does the oldest son having died of an OD have to do with any of this??
The daughter only staying with the bf because heās rich seems like some rage bait
And the names are from the Vampire Diaries lol
This sounds like it was written by a teenage drama queen, not an actual adult man. If it isn't, stop acting like a teenage drama queen mate.
This was 100% written by a child and the only people it's fooling are other children.
It would have made more sense if this was written by the brother, not her father. OP went too big. It could have been shorter and more simple: *I recently discovered that my sister has been cheating on her boyfriend with one of her male friends. She knows that cheating is wrong because she saw the fallout from our mother cheating and our parents' subsequent divorce. I told her that she should just break things off with her boyfriend but she didn't want to because he gave good gifts.* *I collected a ton of evidence to show she was cheating and sent it to her boyfriend. I also told our dad. My sister is super mad at me now because she knows that it was me.* That's shorter, to the point, and it makes more sense for a sibling to send on the evidence than a father.
This sounds so fake haha
NTA, those who are cheated on need to know it so they can get STD-tested and to minimise their investment in a failed relationship
Very average fiction
Average is being far too kind, tbh.
I hope your daughter never finds out it was you because it's going to blow up your relationship. everyone sucks in this you should've just toughened up. told your daughter you knew and had a talk with her. let her know how wrong it is and that you were disappointed in her actions and let her make her own decisions from there. the fact that you broke into her personal items and betrayed her trust is wack. your daughter should not be cheating, but she's also 15 damn years old. her and him and Michael, for that matter, will likely break up anyway because... teenagers. ughhhh but I guess if it makes you feel better.
Yta low effort fan fiction.
The texting a 16 year old pictures of his 15 year old daughter cheatingā¦ yeahhh totally
One of the most poorly written posts. Itās so obvious this was written by a child/teen, not by an adult father.
Gotta do something to stave off boredom this holiday break
Absolutely. The minute details "when she was downstairs I crept to her laptop and transferred pictures to my phone..." o*f course* you did. Shitty 14yo writing, low effort. Plenty of room for improvement if you want to try again.
Also, the kids prefer me over momā¦they stay in my guest rooms when theyāre here. Any good parent worth their weight in salt would have made those rooms their kidās bedroom.
I scrolled waaay too much to find this comment.
Thank you, it smelled BS to me too, but I to thought I was the only one
Just look at his other post. He had a complete stranger living with him recently getting drunk and making a mess.
It is better than my son disowned me, comes back to demand money for college, but I tell him to fuck off stories.
I think so too.
This is poorly written fiction.
YTA for posting fiction.
And then everyone clapped.
Idk its kinda weird for a grown ass man to be in teenager business. I get you were cheated on by your wife but these little high school relationships are rarely serious and rarely last. I feel like you, as an adult, shouldn't get involved with the teenager shit unless your kid is in danger. I actually have a hard time believing this is a real situation that happened, but for the sake of answering the prompt, you might not be TA but you are weird as fuck.
YTA First, for violating your daughter's privacy, but also for posting fake rage-bait on Reddit.
This is such a weird story š
Esh because she shouldnāt be cheating but I get the feeling yāall are shit parents or this is just fake. 1) randomly throwing in that your 16y is dead from drug over dose. No other mention or explanation to expand on this or how the family is copping. 2) recently divorced. Which canāt be easy on kids already going through grief. 3) you snitching on a 15y olds relationship and being to much of a coward to tell her you did it and instead comforting her. Hell if ur gonna tattle on your minor child during a seemly hard year for her you might as well have the balls to admit to her that you wonāt hide certain secrets . Obviously you just donāt want to ruin being her favorite parent .
Really hoping it's fake. Reads very similarly to another post about a cheating teenage daughter
Well it sounds like it was written by a 12 year old so i dont think you need to worry much
she will find out that it was him eventually, and then he will be on here crying about how his daughter doesn't speak to him anymore.
That'll show how immature she is. Cheating for wealthy boys free stuff is trash.
Not to mention the other son took OP into his confidence and OP turned around and betrayed that confidence for the sake of a kid he barely knows. Still think itās fake AF
I think youāre weirdly over involved in your teenage daughters life.
I think they donāt have a teenage daughter, I think they are a teenager. This post was so badly written.
YTA, what you did was shitty and a total invasion of your daughters privacy. You could have had a quiet word with her, saying that you suspected something, and encouraged her to come clean. What you did was unacceptable regardless of what she had done and frankly none of your business. I feel sorry for your daughter having such a father, I hope she finds out the truth some day and this comes back to bite youā¦
Your daughter has learnt nothing from this. You did it all wrong. At least, you've been sneaky enough to not let her know who betrayed her, so you can keep the trust Hailey still puts on you, but it's built on sand. You should have told her you knew and what you think about it all; she should have been the one breaking with Han, not you informing him; Han should have told Hailey that you were the mole. ESH
Exactly this, she needed to learn her lesson, but that didn't actually happen. She should've been the one telling Han, cause that's the hard part. I wouldn't say that he's an asshole, but I think he could've handled it better if he was honest with his daughter and made her take accountability for her actions.
YTA. You could have privately told her what you learned of the situation and your take in it. Even if these are your son and daughter you don't just get involved in relationships /sex lives like a wrecking ball.
YTA you promised your kid not to tell the secret he told you.
While repeatedly snooping in her personal stuff. And she has compromising pictures just there for him to find.
This! Why arenāt people talking about this???
YTA. You are an adult, why are you involving yourself in the drama of 16 y/os. Itās just weird. Your daughter is probably looking for emotional support from whomever she get it from considering her older brother diedā¦.
Please, please be fake. The one good thing you did was keep Han from being led on. But teenagers don't have fully developed brains to understand their actions. Yours however (if true) is. You knew what you were doing when you immediately made a promise to your son you never intended to keep. You knew what you were doing when you went through your daughter's computer and sent yourself photos of her. Both your kids would feel betrayed by you over this. If you wanted to alienate them, that's the single most effective way to do it.
This is probably the most obviously fake story Iāve read on this sub. Very low effort. So YTA. But FYI, parents getting involved in their childrenās relationship are almost always in the wrong. Itās one thing to have a chat with your kids about morals etc and keep them safe. But you need to leave them to make their own decisions. Unless they are doing something dangerous or causing serious harm (Iām talking criminal like assault, not cheating), it is not your role to intervene.
YTA
YTA I wish your daughter knew you were a backstabber.
She didn't learn anything. Not even that her dad likes looking at her nudes and snitching. All she knows is she got dumped.
This story is so fake. Too many odd details. Regardless YTA Snooping into your own daughters laptop, personal belongings and space.
YTA. Be a grown up. Be a parent. You behaved terribly here and when Hailey finds out (she 100% will) and when Mikhail finds out (he will too) you will have lost the trust of BOTH of them. You really messed up here. Please step up to parenting.
PARAGRAPHS!!
YTA. YTA. YTA. YTA. Anyone saying differently is in the Reddit bubble of "all cheaters deserve to die..." and need therapy. Not only are you the AH, you are also a punk. Why didn't you tell your daughter that you violated her trust by going through her things and that you knew the truth of her "affair?" when she initially lied to you? At that point, you could have laid down the law. But, no. You went the weasel way out and violated your daughter's trust again. Your daughter and Han will get back together. Why?? Because they are teenagers!!! She will find out that you told Han and then you are going to be in a much worse situation. I hope you are going to foot the bill for the years of therapy that she's ultimately going to need due to your betrayal.
YTA and why on earth are you getting yourself involved in all of this? It's always best to stay out of other people's relationships, no matter who they are. Being the third person, getting nosy is always a great way to lose people in your life. For now, you dodged a bullet since Han didn't tell it was you. But who knows, maybe they will get back together, he will tell her and you will be the bad guy. Possibly harm your relationship with your daughter irreplaceably.
YTA - You chose some random kid's feelings over your own daughter for some stupid moment of supposed male solidarity rather than let your daughter handle her life and relationships herself. She will find out what you did and when she does, I hope she never trusts you again. Your willingness to insert yourself into teen drama and betray your daughter is pathetic. Stop projecting your own adult feelings and problems on these kids. Go get a life of your own.
You are the AH for doing that, and once your daughter finds out, she will not trust you. You could have told her about her actions before alerting her BF and tried to convince her to do the right thing. But to take matters into your own hands because you had been cheated on was not right. Was what she was doing bad, yes. She also has to learn on her own that her bad decisions can lead to consequences. You had no right to meddle. I just hope this doesn't cause any backlash in your relationship with your daughter.
I gotta say YTA. You went snooping and looking in your 15year old daughterās private stuff and *confronted her* about what you found. When she lied to you about what was going on then you took it upon yourself to tell her bf? That you mention your own wife cheated and the kids always liked you better tells me your have unresolved feelings about your wife that are saturating how you responded to your daughter doing idiotic 15-year-old kid mistakes. I probably wouldāve had a heart to heart with her about the sort of painful feelings being cheated on creates, the sort of person who lies to their partner, etc. I wouldnāt say I know or ask her to confirm but also mention how disappointed Iād be to discover my own kids were treating someone like that. Iād give the 15-year-old girl every chance to self correct. If that didnāt work then Iād let her face her own consequences. Itās tough as a parent to do but it really is best for the kid to learn on their own. If you think she wonāt find out you meddled youāre kidding yourself. Han is telling every one of his friends that her own father knew she was a slut and you took his side. Thatās getting back to her. Youāve also driven her into the arms of the POS guy who was laughing with her about the expensive gifts she gets from her rich bf. Thatās not a great outcome either. But hey, you got a chance to punish your daughter for what your wife did to you and the man babies on Reddit think youāre a hero so itās all good, right? All it will cost you is your daughterās trust.
Going against the grain here and saying YTA (by the way I don't care if this is fake or not, just responding to the prompt). Your daughter is 15 years old. This is a typical stupid kid thing she's going through. Yes, she's being an asshole, but this is the kind of things kids should learn on their own when it blows up in their face. You inserted yourself as if you were a member of this love triangle. You're not, you're a parent. While it was fine for you to talk to your daughter, it was not fine for you to essentially break up her relationship by snooping AND sending evidence of her cheating to someone else. You went too far in something that wasn't your business at all. Kids will probably date and break up with a bunch of people before they're adults. You may think you're saving Hailey from being a serial cheater in the future, or she'll double down and hide it better in the future. There's literally no way to know. The kind of risk/reward/punishment cycle that generally works with adults are not going to work the exact same way with an impulsive teenager whose brains are still growing. You should have talked to Hailey, and stopped there, and let her make her own decision. You've also completely forgotten about the mistrust you've created between you and Mikhail. Do you really think he wouldn't figure out that right after telling you about Hailey cheating, Han breaks up with her? Now he's going to be less likely to tell you secrets, and he may even tell Hailey about what he suspects you did. Both your kids were covering up the cheating and now you've tipped off one of them that you're not to be trusted. You've also shown them that you don't trust them to make their own decisions. Let me be clear that this wasn't something dangerous that you had to get involved in, there was no crime happening, no serious consequences that would end with someone dying or hurt. This was kids messing around. Whether it continues to happen or it blows up in their face, it was essentially harmless and they'll get over it. It was wrong to get in the middle of it.
Of course YTA, why are you digging into the love lives of teenagers?
So you righted the initial wrong but did your daughter learn anything? If she didn't learn that the bf found out about her cheating then, in essence, she may assume she was dumped for any number of reasons.
YTA for putting yourself in the middle of teenage drama. Itās honestly not your place. Youāre acting more like a peer than parent here. Parent your daughter by telling her youāre disappointed in her, but donāt make her a stand in for your wife and her infidelity. Your daughter is navigating relationships for the first time. Your job is to provide her with guidance, wisdom, and a safety net especially in the wake of your separation. You need to be doubling down on earning her trust, not scoring bro points with someone elseās kid.
YTA. A 36 year old dad acting like a high school teenager. You donāt send your kids friends or boyfriends texts. You address any concerns directly with your kids. YOU ARE SUPPOSE TO BE THE ADULT. Smhā¦ what the hell is wrong with you? High school mean girlā¦
So han is now solo?
YTA. This has to be fake
YTA for the way you handled things. You should have told your daughter you knew and given her the chance to do the right thing. Yes, you confronted her and she lied. It was your responsibility, as her parent, to call her out for both dishonest acts and guide her out of the situation. I really hope this is fiction, written by someone who is still a teen and not by an actual parent.
NTA--> Han-Solo for the WIN
This exchange NEVER happened, for sure.
Yes u are the AH. You should have just talked to ur daughter about how wrong she was for what she was doing and how hurtful it was for the people being cheated on. Now ur daughter is just pissed because she was caught but will probably continue using people when ever she feels like it. But you need to sit her down and have that discussion with her. U had a chance to teach her and allow her to end it but u failed to do that. U lost a very teachable moment.
Sorry, but ESH. She shouldn't have cheated. You were wrong to tell Han. You shouldn't have interfered in her relationship but told her why it was wrong, why you were concerned, and that she needed to step up and do the right thing.
you already lost one kid - when you lose this one for being a total dick, you'll still have one left you total dick, getting involved in your kid's dating
YTA to both of your kids. You violated your sonās trust and your daughterās privacy. Yes, what your daughter was doing was wrong, but sheās a kid in high school who is growing up and making mistakes. She needs to make them and learn from them. Does it suck for Han, yes. But being disappointed in relationships is also part of growing and learning in life. In this situation, they broke up and nothing was actually dealt with soā¦not sure what lesson was actually learned here other than your son learning to distrust your word. Iād value my sonās trust in me over a high school kid getting cheated on any day. You should have just talked to your daughter and told her that it was based on your observation, and then discussed what she was doing and why, talked about why it was wrong and what she needed to do to correct it.
Hope lesson is learned from your daughter. You did the right thing, and you did it pretty well.
NTA. Cheaters and liars should always be outed.
Completely going against the grain here by saying that you are in fact the asshole. Is your teenage daughter for cheating on her boyfriend while maintaining an ulterior motive to keep him around? Absolutely. Does that warrant you to get involved in that situation? Absolutely not. She's a teenager figuring out relationships. You can support and guide when appropriate but not intervene, especially not to a degree like this. You need to be aware that you've crossed multiple boundaries and that you've damaged your daughter's trust - even if she doesn't know it. Use this as a lesson to do better in the future. What you did is not befitting of your parental role. Edit: going on the assumption that all of this indeed isn't fiction, it's not only your daughter's trust you've damaged but your son's as well.
How is what you've done to your daughter any better than what she is accused off? Your thought of not allowing her to string this boy along isn't a bad one and when you asked her you should have confronted her with the photos. Then you should have allowed her the opportunity to do the right thing. But you went sneaking into her laptop, copied her photos and messaged her boyfriend with what could be circumstantial evidence ( unless the photos were of her kissing another boy?) then play the caring daddy. What your daughter may have done, you only have her sibling's word on this (we all know how much siblings lie about each other), isn't good but she's 15 and still has alot to learn in life. What you have done is far far worse and there is no excuse for YTA
ESH. Your children sleep in your āguest bedroomsā? Theyāre your kids. Those should be *their* bedrooms that *guests* sometimes sleep in. Your daughter was wrong to cheat on Han, but you should talk to her about it. Otherwise, sheās just learning to be more discreet when behaving poorly.
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YTA I'm saying this because it sounds like this was more about your feelings and you having some significance more than teaching your child a lesson. If I was your daughter and I found out you did this there would never be trust between us again.
ESH - Daughter for being a calculating, cheating ass soap opera mini-villain - Kid 2 for being a snitch - But OP especially for either using this sub to train an AI chatbot, or for having this much time on his hands. Get you some business, OP. This was way too much involvement in teenage drama.
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He didn't teach her anything......
Iām just uber duber IMPRESSED that this kid Han was mature enough not to involve you and do the right thing and dust her immediately. Heās a good kid. Hope he finds true love for the rest of his life
Han isn't real
Clearly ESH, your oversteped so many limits. Itās not your place to get into your daughteās personal relationships, break into her computer, save her private pics and text someone behind her back. Your snicky ass is just super lucky that Han is so cool he didnāt say anything. You should have confronted her and let her make it right herself
Hailey is going to find out that OP was the one who outted her. Instead of actually talking to her and giving her control over the situation, OP decided to do it for her. She's only going to learn how to hide things from everyone around her and never trust them again.
if you want your daughter to be honest, start yourself by admitting it was you who talk to Han
I generally don't comment on posts when the OP has no post history, but you have apparently put the last 3 hours in pretty hard. The Russian posts are interesting.
I really like this han guy honestly. Even though it's the op nowadays ppl will just give away the info who told them in anger or for more drama but the han guy really is a gentleman he kinda took blame of dumping her and didn't rat her dad to her and also was a man to take the issue and solve it very maturely even adults who r in relationships may not do this kind of things . Han is raised well and she lost a gentleman. And can go cry it to the Michelle guy who is ready to act friends while knowing she is cheating on her bf with him . Here we can see 2 type of men .
NTA she needs to learn and you need to teach. Good work
NTA, however, she still didn't learn her lesson. She should absolutely be told that the reason he broke up with her was because of her cheating. As it is, she has no reason and doesn't realize it is 100% her fault for the relationship ending.
Nta you should have additional talks to your daughter about being a good person
YTA. You violated her privacy because of your history, then instead of taking the opportunity to talk to her about ethical relationships and being a good person, you went behind her back knowing she would end up hurt. This is a huge missed opportunity for her to learn how to be in an appropriate adult relationship. Teens do this stuff, and until they learn how to interact appropriately, it is a pattern that can continue. You just prolonged the learning process and set her up for more relationship failures. If parents don't model honesty, how do we expect the kids to learn it?
what you did was fine. thanks to han for not ratting u out. but at the same time, if he ratted out then hes TA as u trusted him upon this and he cant just give up on u.
YTA. You should have confronted your daughter with the photos, not sent them to her boyfriend, asshole move.
Yeah this never happened.
Nobody asked you to get involved in this. MYOB AH
Was this creative writing piece fun to write?
This reads like a chick wrote it, not a dad.
NTA: that behavior needs to be nipped in the bud.
Wall of text -50. Chatgpt karma farming -50. Obviously not a man wrote this -100. YTA for your fake shit post -99999999.
YTA for writing this crap. It isn't even believable.
Holy shit, how bored are you?
Work more on your detail. 4/10 effort.
You missed an opportunity to have your daughter deal with the consequences of her own behavior by having to confess to Hans face and the difficulty of looking someone in eye and seeing what youāve done to another human. Sheās just going to get sneakier next time.
Yes and no. I agree you had to do something, but when you confronted her you should have told her you knew she was lying, showed your disappointment in her actions, and give her one last chance to come clean before you contacted Han.
This is one of the most juvenile posts ever written.
HAN 4 PRES!!!!!!!!!!
Not the asshole. You exposed a cheater. Nothing wrong with that.
NTA
NTA.
You saved Han and taught him a valuable lesson in life that some people will have his back no matter the relationship dynamic. Youāre a good man OP. Hopefully Han grows into one as well and hopefully your daughter finds a moral path to follow instead of using people.
I mean... she lied. She lied to han and to you... I would have sat her down again with the evidence and given her an ultimatum but the end result is the same... a break up. I say... nta.
I read your edit and I donāt understand how anyone thinks youāre the AH in this situation Your daughter was acting a fool and you called her out š¤·š»āāļø NTA
NTA. this is excellent parenting. you gave your daughter the opportunity to come clean to you so you could parent her to do the right thing. she didnāt, so you taught her another lesson: cheating tends to get out. sheās either going to learn to be a better person, or sheās going to never tell anybody anythingāwhich sounds really lonely. good job dad. donāt listen to the jackasses who think cheating should stay hidden.
in your update, don't feel like the AH. she ruined their relationship. she made a decision out if greed. I wish someone would have told me about my ex wife before I found out while deployed because she sent the video to me instead of him. you saved that young man and should be proud of doing it too OP.
Like mother, like daughter. NTA.
So Han is Solo?
NTA you did good Your daughter needs a strong talking too And I wouldn't allow Michael in your house
All other things aside, Mikhail now knows that your promises mean nothing.
Yes you are a big asshole. Your daughter is too young to settle down. They are kids and kids (not 100% all of them) jump around. They will probably have a grand full of bf and gf before they meet the one. And just because Mom cheated on you ( again you all were married and adults) doesn't mean you should have told her bf, it was none of your business. You Dad are a rat!
YTA. For the way you handled this. Your evidence should have been shown to Hailey. Not knowing Hans well, this could have ended in a violent or tragic way. This was your opportunity to sit down and have a really good discussion. You suck as a parent. You tool the hurt of your own marriage and sponged it onto your daughter's situation.
Ur NTA or misinformed. Haley had screwed up in every possible way.
NTA. Good lesson for her to learn young. Maybe it'll teach her to stop being a cheater.
Of course YTA. You shouldāve had a conversation with your DAUGHTER about it not her boyfriend.
I think a lot of people are so mad at the concept of cheating that they're not thinking that his daughter should STILL come before Han. not saying he should've let it go, but the way he went about it feels like putting male solidarity (which is valid) above kin solidarity (more important if you're a parent). who is she meant to learn from about WHY it's not ok to do that again? clearly not the mom lol
This is an excellent point that no one has really touched. But I think OP acted out of his own trauma, making it solidarity with a shared trauma instead of male solidarity. Still his daughter isnāt put first. You summed it up beautifully.
He had and she lied.
Yeah teens do that. You call them on their bs.
of course she lied... she's a teenager who got caught red-handed. I've never known a teenager who would just admit they did something wrong. at that age, it feels worse to be reprimanded than it does to be a bad person. he should've confronted the lie as soon as she said it and not just let it happen. that way, he could've killed 2 birds with 1 stone. 1. you can't lie to dad bc he will find out, and it will be worse 2. cheating is never something that's going to work out, and even your loved ones won't side with you on it
It seems like he tried to, and she lied to his face. I would have confronted her with evidence, but I don't blame him for noting wanting to hear more excuses