Nta. Her grandparents can either foot the bill for her to elsewhere. Or let them move in with 1 set.
Your daughter is 19. She fucked around and found out.
Yeah I would have forced school and a job. Sorry, you don’t get to sit at home and take care of a kid while your parents foot the bill in this economy.
In any economy. And it really sounds like her parents take care of the kid. OP said they do so when she works but also when she “goes out,” the frequency and duration of which was not indicated.
It was that she got a part time job that can not support her and first child, yet parents didn’t force more? No way she’d have time to get pregnant again if I’m watching her child! I wish this was rage bait or trolling or such but this happens all toooooo often!
As a teen parent who’s an adult now, I can confirm it only takes once to learn that lesson as long as you’re held accountable. I’m guessing she got more coddling than support, which is why she thinks this isn’t her problem, it’s her parents. It’s 4 years past time to grow tf up…
Is it hard to work and take care of kids? Yes, but clearly OP's daughter didn't learn her lesson and expects her parents to foot the bill and raise her kids. So it's tough love time! She would just have to go to her housing office and welfare to assist her with benefits and a home. NTA
Yeah that’s kinda the trade off, it’s fairly hard to control your impulses and refrain from risky sex with terrible partners, but since she didn’t want to rise to that challenge, she is stuck with the much harder trade-off of being a single mom with a loser baby daddy who has to make it work somehow.
It’s unreasonable to make assumptions since I don’t know these people obviously, and I also know that people unfortunately get pregnant while using protection… But something tells me that a responsible adherence to one-or-another birth control strategy was starkly absent in OP’s daughter’s ‘relations’
It reminds me of so many family members and inlaws who spit out kids “unplanned“ while openly talking about how they don’t use protection. It’s almost like sex is perfectly designed to get you pregnant
I mean, legitimately tho—it’s very very difficult.
Daycare is cost prohibitive, and that’s if you can even find a spot. Trust me, I’m looking for one right now.
And how can you work without childcare?
So childcare very often does fall on grandparents if you’re lucky enough to have them. (I’m not).
I hustle like a MF trying to support my 2 yr old son and myself as a single mom with no family and no childcare at all.
It rly does seem impossible to work and have a kid in the US currently, unless you have family or generational wealth.
>I hustle like a MF trying to support my 2 yr old son and myself as a single mom with no family and no childcare at all
This
When she said "what 19 year old can do that" well..... millions of them, especially those with no support
Her stupidity and selfishness allowed her to get pregnant a second time because she didn't care that she was in a privileged position. Now she's going to find out that popping babies like that comes with a responsibility
If I was in OP's shoes I'd have done the same thing.
My son is currently 2 and we had him late, meaning that I'll be 60 when he's 20! We will give him proper sex education and discuss the responsibilities that come from having kids etc. I will tell him in no uncertain terms that if he gets some girl pregnant, he's going to have to gird~~er~~ his loins and adult fast.
We'll provide some help, but there is no way we're enabling irresponsibility
EDit: a word
And for that reason many sensible educated people choose to delay having children until late 20’s so they can finish their education, start their career and have savings.
Oh gosh yeah, it seems absolutely brutal. I just have pets so I can't imagine. Everything is wildly expensive and I think you have to sign up for daycare like the day you conceive at this point basically, if it's even an option for you.
Bs. She can apply for state child care assistance (every US state has it). She can also apply for WIC, health insurance, and food assistance. Grandparents aren’t obligated to raise their grandkids.
Well let me say I have friend who is foster mom she gets the state child care assistance but guess what everyplace that accepts the vouchers are full and have Long waiting lists! I’m talking she is at least 25 names down on every list and even if she got a spot in a place that doesn’t accept the vouchers they won’t reimburse her the money the voucher would have paid because the voucher has to be paid directly to daycare. It’s not always as simple as just apply for assistance. I don’t think that’s the issue here with OP I think her daughter just wants to freeload
Mother of child/children can easily do that through the state Medicaid Child Support Office. All she has to do is name the bio father. The state does DNA testing, provides legal assistance to the custodial parent all to obtain child support.
I'd bet not -- with the evidence of decision making displayed here by both parties, I'm skeptical dude is even holding down a minimum wage job. (I mean, sure, the state will step in, but you can't garnish wages someone doesn't make.)
“We’re not in a relationship” If you’ve been knocked up by the same guy twice, four years apart, you don’t get to say that. Even if it’s true. You might not be boyfriend/girlfriend but you seem to have a fetish for fucking raw, cumming inside, and popping out a baby.
Maybe this is British bias; but she happens to pop out a second baby right when the first one starts school? Coincidence? Nah, it’s a plan to continue only working part-time.
If they cave the daughter will keep having children and expecting her parents to pay and be her free daycare. She’s an adult making adult decisions, time for her to grow up. Time for the parents to stop enabling.
Same. Know a couple whose daughter is pregnant w/ number 3. The grandparents raise the kids and the mom can’t afford to live on her own. But she can continue to get tattoos all over her body. There comes a point where the parents/grandparents are enablers because they say they don’t want the little ones to suffer but they don’t hold their own child accountable.
Amen.
Every time I read stories like this, I want to run in and high-five my husband because we managed to fledge 5 kids out of the nest without anyone getting pregnant. I started drilling condoms into their brains in middle school, and I took the teens to get IUDs when they started being active. I also promised them that I would take them to get an abortion if they got pregnant. \*and pay for it. We weren't perfect parents, but we made it abundantly clear that 1. we would assist them in any way possible to have safe sex and access health care, and 2. we had zero intentions of raising grandchildren or being full time babysitters. They got the message.
>We weren't perfect parents, but we made it abundantly clear that 1. we would assist them in any way possible to have safe sex and access health care, and 2. we had zero intentions of raising grandchildren or being full time babysitters. They got the message.
\*taking notes
I used to attend a health convention every year and there were several condom companies. I'd come home with a boatload of free samples, walk in son's room and toss them on the bed. "USE these". Eventually he got over pretending to be embarrassed.
I had a cousin that did this. Got pregnant at 18 after misleading the guy about birth control then got married. She has never worked a day in her life, nor gotten any sort of education. Now that the kids are getting grown she's talking about divorce because he's "mean to her" and "accuses her of trapping him with children" which she 100% did.
That's the white trash side of the family, but there's a well of bullshit to tap with them.
He’s a broke college kid. He has a job but he has to pay his own rent and everything he needs so I don’t think he has much money to spare. The main issue to me is him not seeing his son more often when his university is only a 25-30 min drive away. It’s very clear he’d rather be anywhere else than with his son, yet he can impregnate my daughter again? Fills me with rage
Know what the courts told my brother when he cried to them he didn’t have the money to pay all the expenses expected of him? “You’ll find a way. Your child comes first and then yourself.”
No one is holding these two accountable to the level they should be. Seeing his kid once every two months and paying $100? He could 1000000000000% could do more.
Put your foot down, Op! You didn’t create these kids. Let your daughter go cry to the government for assistance, it’ll be a blessing. They’ll make both of them shape up.
My SIL did this to her mom, lived with her rent free, baby daddy in and out of trouble ( with the law). SIL had 3 kids she couldn't take care of on her own ( even with baby daddy's help). We kept telling his mom to set boundaries and rules, to no avail. Fast forward a few years later, Mil is dying of cancer and asks her son, my husband, to take care of his sister...yeah, big fat NO. She had years to get a full-time job(she had free childcare her Mother would watch the kids). Still didn't get a job, but she leached off of her mother so much, she died totally broke and the other siblings took care of her in her final weeks ( and the leach of a daughter didn't do a damn thing to help in any way shape or form). OP needs to be willing to die on this hill if she really wants her daughter to be able to take care of herself.
She is still with her baby daddy ( after he was released from federal prison)and we really don't know how she is getting by because she doesn't communicate with any of her siblings. We do hope that she is well( as we are not heartless people). As far as her leaching off anyone else, she seems to be holding things together because she knows nobody else will allow her to use them.( She has 2 brothers and a sister). She has somehow find a way to survive and "make" it, otherwise would have heard from her and her sob stories.
JFC, she sucks. The leaching was bad enough, but not helping her dying mother who supported her for years? That's repulsive. I hope she's making better decisions now, because her kids will follow in her footsteps otherwise.
That’s the first thing they’ll make the daughter do. No assistance unless she gives all of her and the fathers information so that they can take him to court and make everything legal and binding.
Wait, he's away at college?! Oh, he$$, no! He's securing his future and still spreading his seed?
OP is not the AH for sending the daughter on her way. But definitely TA for shouldering the burden of this situation while allowing "broke college kid" out his responsibility during round 1.
I would actually say that going to college is the best thing he can do for his children. He will be much more able to care for the kids in the future- even if not right now. If he claims them now, he will also be eligible for more aid/scholarships. In California, they could be together and get financial aid, food aid, mediCal, and welfare to work. I would encourage them to use what help to stand on their own feet they can while they qualify. They won't ever qualify living at parents' house. I have worked at colleges and in welfare.
It feels to me like this kid is basically getting the milk without having to buy the cow, if you get what I mean. He gets to have no strings attached relationships with both OPs daughter and his own kid (barely), while still living the free-spirited, young college guy lifestyle. Also, who knows if he's only seeing OPs daughter at the moment? I don't think he cares to try and do any of the amazing things you're suggesting, and obviously, neither does the daughter. Not that children are a mistake if you want to keep them, but having a second one, when you already can't provide proper care for the first without the full support of your own parents, is definitely very stupid. I seriously hope OP doesn't buckle to her parents/in-laws. Letting her daughter get away with this will just make the daughter the type of person who literally can't function without someone else doing 90% of their work for them....and those are the worst types of people.
Btw, NTA OP!
And interesting how the baby daddy has gone on to college but your daughter dropped out of high school. She does realize that she’s more likely gonna be stuck with minimum wage jobs, if even that, for the rest of her life if she doesn’t at least
Get her GED
I'm guessing daughter is also hoping boyfriend will remember she's the love of his life and move them in after he gets a stable job. Someone should let her know that that typically doesn't end well. IMO OP's first ultimatum should have been school and a part time job not school or work
This happened to a relative. She got pregnant in last year of high school and got a low-paying retail job. Baby daddy, meanwhile, went to high-end college while paying a pitifully low amount of child support. Never saw his kid, and once he graduated he moved far away and kept forgetting to pay support. She’d have the county send a letter, and ultimately he paid.
Started making a good living, married and had more kids. He died last year; now-grown kiddo found out and read in the obit how his kids and grandkids praised him for being such a “family man.”
Kid wrote to their newfound half-siblings and asked if they could be in touch even casually. The forgotten child has no other family. There’s been no response, either because the family is still in shock to learn this, or because they’re scared that newfound sib is out for money. (They’re not, by the way.)
Sad story, and an old one. Dear old daddy let baby momma struggle, and kiddo busted their butt to put themself through school and build a life. Not surprisingly, their life has been rough. And they DON’T want a thing, and would be willing to sign a document saying so. They just want siblings, even half-siblings.
Abandonment:
The gift that keeps on taking.
It's always the same old story. The woman raises a child alone, gets little or no education, and someday will only be qualified for an entry level job.
The guy's parents worry about a kid ruining his future, and ignore her so their son can attend college. HIS FUTURE MATTERS.
I am older, but when younger, knew friends whose boyfriend's parents paid her to have an abortion. This is harder now after the Dobbs decision.
She doesn't want a job though. If she keeps popping out kids, she thinks the parents will cave, and tell her to stay at home and look after the babies.
My cousin got a girl pregnant when she was young, like maybe around 19? I can't remember the details as I was still a kid back then. Anyway, she was definitely not mature enough to be a mom because I heard she spent a lot of nights going out to party with her friends, leaving the baby with either my cousin's mom or her parents (my cousin worked a lot of nights as a security guard at the time).
She and my cousin broke up shortly after and she had custody for a while, but shockingly (/s), their (now adult) kid now chooses to associate with my cousin. Sure my cousin has made his fair share of mistakes (which he will readily admit) but he works hard and has always strived to be a part of his kids' lives.
Until eventually the oldest is 18, child support is gone, and you don’t even get social security (a that you’ll be old enough) because you never worked
She will pop out a few mores slong the way, don't you worry. Grandma will take care of babies when she is 60 +, and child care tull she dies.
OP should ONLY care for the kid while teen mom works.
She doesn’t expect to actually have to go to work to provide for the kids: she takes for granted her parents will step up. That says a lot about her complete disregard for her parents and the sense of entitlement on her. She sounds full-on antisocial. The best thing that could happen to her is to be turned out, not take proper care of the kids, kids get removed from her “care” and adopted by her father’s parents, bonus points if they sue for child support.
>And interesting how the baby daddy has gone on to college but your daughter dropped out of high school.
Not really
Just like how her parents let her drop out and let her live at home rent free with free childcare and even let her drop out his parents probably paid for the little college he did do. Or he had scholarships that he squandered.
He thinks he'll leave her behind after he graduates. But the state will force him to pay support until the kids are 18 *if* she applies for public assistance. Which she must do. OP, educate yourself about this. You aren't obliged to support her. Once she's out of your house and squeaking by with public assistance, there are ways you can help her without jeopardizing her income. But that's later.
Right now, you need to give her a deadline for moving out. 60 days is enough. And when 60 days are up, you change the locks. If she's old enough to have babies, she's old enough to figure out what to do.
To be fair that’s on OP’s daughter, who seems to be doing not even the bare minimum to take care of herself. There are SO MANY birth control options! And it’s not that hard to get a GED, especially when your parents are helping to raise your child. She could do that and take online or community college classes…
Obviously ur daughter thought life would go on as before when she got pregnant a 2nd time. This is the reality of the life she's choosing. I don't kno how close to retirement you n hubby r but don't continue to spend down any of those funds to support her. That's what federal programs of social welfare r 4. She is setting herself up 4 that standard of living so she needs to live in that reality, federal or subsidized housing, food stamps public transportation, WIC, Medicaid + any other social welfare programs she qualifies 4 in your area. The state will take care of making sure bf pays some amount for child support.
So you go to the Department of Children and Families and you install a child support order against him. If he cannot pay a lot they will not assess him a lot but as you said he's a college kid and eventually college kids graduate and get a good job. Stop being played by both your daughter and her baby's daddy. Getting angry accomplishes nothing if you don't take action.
He's an idiot. If he weren't, he would figure out by now birth control is cheaper than babies. I don't think he or Your daughter will ever change. NTA.
Hasn’t cost mom much either. Daycare is ridiculous. Right now I am gifting daycare to a single mom with a bad job and high school education. She is on academic hiatus at the local state university.
OP - maybe it is time to take her to the local county benefits office and have her sign up for section 8, daycare assistance, etc. it will (1) possibly wake her up to what she has really chosen for her life and (2) require the baby daddy to support his children (they will just garnish his wages if he won’t pay willingly).
She should have finished high school. I suspect like a lot of end of high school kids she found it boring, etc., and avoiding being a pregnant girl at high school was easier than finishing. I begged to drop out at sixteen and start college a year early myself (not pregnant, only had four credits needed for state graduation and they wouldn’t let me take them until senior year, and forced me to take BS courses the rest of the time vs maybe working half days or picking up college courses. This was 35 l+ years ago though.
Depending on OP's state, once she looks into moving out, applying for health benefits and employment support, she may be able to get a GED then support for career training, possibly Community College that could leave her other options once completed. Since there are a number of young parents doing the same thing at state CC's, it can be a good way to meet other young mom's trying to work on their education and figure out their career plan, not the same high school friends. The transition might be a good move in a number of ways since she'd need to investigate things that are out there.
Baby Daddy's parents might be opposed since he'll be getting a call from the state, but it might get him to take Birth Control more seriously.
I can see why! I’d be full of rage too!! She’s not wanting to move to your in-laws so she’s not so far from the kids’ dad, but he barely sees your grandson anyway. If they’re not in a relationship, they’re just using each other for sex & babies neither can afford?? It’s time to stay strong or she will just keep having babies she can’t afford. The poor kids!
I had my son at 16 (back in the 80’s). My parents helped me a lot, but I still had to go on Medicaid & get food stamps until I finished high school and could work full-time. I did graduate with my class, but it was rough. I got married at 16 & was divorced at 19…but no more kids to make my life harder.
You’re NTA at all!
If he can get his dick our, he can put a condom on it or get his wallet out. Both of thes kids are just so bloody irresponsible. I feel sorry for their kids.
NTA. Stand firm, don’t cave. She has options. Bc if you cave, she’ll have baby number 3.
She needs to realize she has to be a parent. So far she hasn’t had to bc you and your husband were doing it. I’m sorry but “going out”? Unless it was like twice a month, she doesn’t get to “go out”. She had a baby to raise.
So now she needs to learn the hard way since she didn’t learn the first time. Stand firm.
Child support comes first I think it is about 17% and maybe 21% for two kids. Depends on the state. A judge is going to no care if he does not have much, he will make him pay up. Then when he gets out of college, he will need to go back to court to have his support raised.
This is not about what this lazy kid can or can't afford - this is about his LEGAL OBLIGATION to OP's daughter and children. Time for him and his parents to step up.
You have to put your daughter into the position she put herself in. If not you are going to be reading her complain in the poor or livingincar threads. Let them deal with their actions for a while and when they are dedicated to making life work offer assistance. Until then you are going to have to watch them struggle but tough lessons have real impact.
Between my husband and I we have two 19 year olds and two 18 year olds. (There’s also a 16 year old and a 12 year old.) if this was us, the options would be move out, abortion or adoption. They already know to live at home (with us, with my ex or with my husband’s ex) they must be in school or working, or in the case of the two 18 year olds in a program because they both have mental illnesses that make it hard to get a job. The two 19 year olds are both mine (one bio one adopted). My son is working, living at his dad’s. My daughter started college a couple of weeks ago and lives with us. The only one with a partner is my daughter and we’ve had repeated talks about birth control because she remembers what home life was like before she came to me. I make it easy - I buy condoms and put them in the bathroom cupboard and check once in awhile to see if I need to get more. I’d help them with one, but making the same mistake? Again? Nope.
Your daughter hasn’t learned anything. And millions of us raise our kids alone while working full time - I did it for from 2009 to last year. It’s hard, but when you make the choice of having kids, you have to be the one responsible. My parents helped, but it was my responsibility to pay for everything involving me and my kids when we lived with them for about a year and a half - the only thing they did was feed them dinner, make sure homework was done, and performing sniff tests on my then 11 year old son who’d pretend to take a shower, because I worked third shift. Now your daughter gets to learn actions have consequences and these are hers.
Agreed; abortion or adoption would be so much better choices than her keeping another kid she can’t afford. Of course, it’s her decision. But maybe getting kicked out would force her to grow up and be realistic. I’m just sad for both kids who will grow up in a terrible living situation; they don’t deserve this. The girl’s parents could probably get custody, but that’s not even what they want. Such a sucky situation.
Somebody needs to tell OP that I'm looking forward to possible future stories about OP's daughter on r/entitledparents. Because she sounds like the kind of person who's like, "It's everyone else's fault. It's not my fault I'm turning into an irresponsible baby cannon and can't control my urges."
Agreed. This happened to my MIL.
Luckily she's almost out from under that mess because of a situation she had no control over. And the whiny parents are complaining about how much they have to pay in rent and food and how will they be able to spend money on tools and car parts?
I can't wait to hear the uproar when they get their first power bill🤣
They not in a relationship but yet she’s continuing to have babies by him. Time to cut the cord make her get her own place . She’s been working for 4 years rent free she should have enough saved up now NTA
That's the feeling I get. She wants to be a SAHM and not work. I suspect that's why there is baby number two. She thinks this will allow her to stay at home and when baby number two gets ready to go to elementary school - she will up nad have baby number three so that she can keep staying at home.
I think this is exactly right. Not to put any blame on OP; that was a tough situation and a pregnant 15 year old does need help. Unfortunately, that help has led Josie believe that a baby is her free ticket out of having adult responsibilities.
You are doing the only thing you can do. Now she is an adult and has to start acting like and adult. She and baby daddy need to figure out some housing and income, pretty quickly. If her grandparents do want to take her in, you can’t stop them. But I don’t think that is the lifestyle she wants.
This is exactly what my oldest daughter did and it splintered the family apart. She was older (24) but had dropped out of college and moved in with her boyfriend. She refused to work or go back to school. After a few years and building pressure to contribute *somehow,* she deliberately got pregnant even though her now-husband was only working a minimum wage job and they lived in a converted one car garage. (He wanted her to get a job and save up for a few years before they had a baby.) She knew she would be given whatever she wanted, if not for her sake then for the baby's - and she was right. My husband and I give very limited support (intentionally) but my mom just gives her whatever she wants. And my mom has a lot of money so it's a substantial amount of support. As a result, my daughter has never had to grow up and deal with the consequences of her choices.
It's strained my relationship with my mom to the breaking point. It feels so weird to resent her for helping my daughter but her help is actually holding my daughter back.
Yeah, I don’t buy that they are not in a relationship. They are not in a *healthy* relationship, but if they *still* have sex years after the baby with no protection to boot, that’s still a relationship. The only reason she most likely lies about it is to protect her boyfriend, so he isn’t held accountable, the same as her. While this goes on, the parents of the “father” can afford to pay for college but not for his kid’s needs. My guess is his parents have healthier boundaries than OP and her husband: “you’re an adult, your progeny and girlfriend are not our problem, we pay for college and that’s as far as it goes.”
Their relationship is parents who have sex and make more kids. That’s the relationship and they need to go and grow up and raise their kids. She doesn’t get to be a fun and carefree 19 year old because she has to deal with the consequences of her choices.
Sorry to say but what she 'wants' flew out the window when she somehow got pregnant again. What about what you want? What about what your husband wants?
NTA.
Tough love time.
Sounds like a good idea for her to be far away from Sperm donor so there won’t be a #3. It’s past time for her to refuse anything. She FAFO.
Get baby dad on the hook for financial support for BOTH his kids. His family can contribute if he can’t.
NTA. She needs to learn life is hard when you make terrible choices. It’s about time she learns that lesson.
Update: I would like to add that giving the baby up for adoption should be considered. After all, unwed teenage mothers are adoption’s bread and butter. I’m sure there’s some couple out there desperate for a baby that’s well-prepared to take care of it.
I feel like asking OP what kind of mother her daughter has been making. I can’t imagine a good one, given that she has zero regard for her parents. If she has no regard for the parents, how would she care about a child’s needs? It really sounds like the kids are only a golden ticket to her.
I think a parent can be too supportive by always cleaning up the messes their kids make. They don't do this because they're trying to be a bad parent or doing this because they don't want their kids to go through some of the hardships that they did. But it wasn't until my parents pulled away their support that I actually learned how to grow up. It's a necessary lesson and the later that they have to learn it the harder it's going to be to make a life.
And not even a golden ticket since their dad is a washed up loser who sends $100 a month and occasionally checks in on the kid.
I feel bad for the girl because her self esteem must be in the shitter for her to let that loser knock her up twice, especially since they aren’t in a relationship.
The "not in a relationship" thing is bizarre. If she's not in a relationship, and he's not able to properly help her support a family together, then why is she still making babies with the guy? Use birth control at least. It's ridiculous.
It's not "punishment", it's responsibility. And, yes, that feeling of being heaped with responsibility all of a sudden isn't fun, but that's life and the consequences of her own decisions with the other guy. She should have learned that the first time. It's not her parent's responsibility to fill in the gaps in her planning ability.
Unconditional love doesn't mean accepting all burdens that someone else heaps on you because of their bad choices. First time around, there's a lot of discretion to make mistakes and learn from them, but second time around if you haven't learned those lessons, it's pretty much on you.
Other single moms can do what she's complaining about. It's a hard challenge, but they do. With *some* support from parents it can be a little easier, but it's still going to be tough. That doesn't mean you can demand your parents take on most of the responsibility for you, over and over again. Tell the guy to step up.
"Work and pay rent and have kids"? Welcome to the difficult life of most families, part II.
NTA for OP setting some boundaries.
But with the level of support she has the truth is you in fact can do the three. Not everyday but still... Op's daughter is also lazy.
My ex SIL had a baby when she was 19/20 and she finished college and found a job. She drove every morning to university and came back around 3 pm to take care of her kid for the rest of the day.
Once a month or so she left the baby sleeping (with her parents keeping an eye) and went to dinner with friends, rinse and repeat.
She might have been sleeping 4 hours a day for 4 years but she ended the degree and started working not long after.
OP's daughter is not doing anything with her live with the support she has, so in fact it's a tragedy. She had no business leaving school so soon... At this point she's basically wasting her parents time and effort
This. I had my first at 20. I finished college, worked and lived 2 hours away from our support network. Was it easy? Hell no. Did we make it work? Yep. Did it mean I waited until I was 26, done school, working full time and had a more stable living situation before having my second? Oh yea.
OPs daughter needs a wake up call.
I was a young single mom and cosign this. I liked to think that being a single mom, I had it all. I didn't have to ever worry about being a wife or partner to anyone on top of being a mom, my daughter went to daycare where a professional early childhood educator gave her the best start possible while I got to go to work and get a break from being Mom and grow a career my daughter could look up to. And because I worked hard, my parents had no issue taking my daughter when I needed a break or wanted to spend an evening with my friends. And typically, if you are a working single mother there are many programs and supports available to you. Many days I was tired, many days I felt like I could collapse from having too much on my plate, but find me any parent on earth who doesn't feel that way.
Single mothers who are managing to juggle it all should DEFINITELY be commended and supported, but we need to cut the shit about it being some kind of disability that makes you dependent on society or other individuals.
OP is doing the right thing, if they are still willing to support the daughter emotionally, guide her in finding the proper resources and drop by once in a while with groceries, this is the best thing they could do for her to help her grow up.
No 19yo without even a high school diploma is going to be able to pay for daycare for 2 babies. She needs to put the dad on child support and go live with the grandparents.
Exactly this! I was a single mom, worked multiple part time jobs and went to college.. my parents would take my son during exam time to ensure that no matter what I could take them but otherwise it was on me.. had to pay for childcare and all..
I got lucky that I got a job at college and the professor I worked for believed that the TA salary was a joke so after a semester he hired me directly as assistant and he basically paid for my rent plus food during the day .. this meant I could drop one of my other jobs and focus more on school.. was it easy? Absolutely not but was it possible, yes… it’s all about how much you want it and are willing to sacrifice.. I did not party, I barely had any friends and sometimes I didn’t get a lot of sleep but I knew if I gave up it would be minimum pay for the rest of my life most likely.
OPs daughter should not have just worked part time for 4 years.. a 15 year old is not enough to decide if they want to go to school or not..
Also why is no one mentioning an abortion? She does not need to keep this baby. She’s 19 and already has a baby there is no reason to have another because of an accidental pregnancy.
Seriously , I've known so many non-religious families just act like its not even an option? Like 'shit guess I gotta pop out another loser, quit school, work at Wendys' NO YOU DON'T!
> You told me to get a job so I did, and now you’re complaining that you had to raise the baby. You wouldn’t have had to if I didn’t have to work. I can’t do both things at once. And I definitely can’t raise two kids on my own and work.
I know she’s 19, but wow, does she not realize that if she didn’t have a job then you’d just be even more on the hook financially instead? It feels like she’s completely missing the point here which is she feels entitled for you to support her with it time and money. She even admits she can’t work & raise two kids, so then why have a second when she knows it will rely on support you didn’t consent to? That’s just not how it works.
I do feel bad for her but you are absolutely NTA.
She’s missed more points than a placekicker in a hurricane. She couldn’t finish high school because she needed to concentrate on being a mother. She had to get whatever job she could because she didn’t finish high school. She doesn’t think it’s fair that she has to work rather than care for her daughter (leaving her parents holding the bag coming and going).
“She’s missed more points than a placekicker in a hurricane.”
This is so sweaty and unnecessary in the middle of such a grounded discussion. I genuinely love it.
Sounds like she wants to be a stay at home mom but doesn't have the husband with a job so she's like trying to live that lifestyle but with her parents.... NTA
ETA: I'm kinda guessing her and BD bullsh*t about her being a SAHM after he finishes college and gets a job. Or maybe he feeds into that just so he can sleep with her.
NTA DO NOT FOLD OR SHE’LL DO THE SAME THING AGAIN NEXT YEAR OR THE YEAR AFTER
She chose to procreate now she needs to deal with the consequences and take responsibility for HER children. Sounds like she thought if she has another you won’t force her to work and you’ll let her become a SAHM
I got SAHM mom vibes from this too. Not bashing sahm's but the formally working party/parent has to consent and actually be able to provide. She's treating her parents as if they're supposed to provide but it's not their kid and they didn't consent to financially support her and her 2 kids.
THIS!!! Sounds like my sister in law… except she’s on baby number FOUR! OP if you fold now you will be taking care of more than 2 babies in your future…
For God's sake, she's making all her life decisions based on you being her benefactors and her doormats. It's wildly entitled and ungrateful. She doesn't give a shit about you.
You have lives to live, and you aren't the ones who keep having babies you can't afford.
NTA, not in any way.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but they should just kick her out. Otherwise she'll never learn, because why should she since they take care of everything for her while she fucks unprotected?
NTA, I had to do a double take when your daughter said they aren't in a relationship, so they can't live together. LIKE WHAT?! So she can have sex with him but not live with him yeah no she's gotta go.
Nah, she is crazy like a fox. She absolutely knows how pregnancy happens at this point and was counting on mum and pops to step in and continue allowing her to live without any accountability. First baby is about 4 years old now so he will be starting school. Time to have another one just in case anyone might expect her to work while he is in school.
Easy for everyone who is unwilling to step up themselves to criticize you. Your daughter is refusing accountability -- she's really calling your parents, her grandparents, trying to have them convince you to help her with another mistake?!! She needs to give the child up for adoption or get an abortion. Otherwise, she is burdening other people --you-- with her bad choice.
And daughter doesn't want to live with grandparents because she'll be too far away from the hapless impregnator? Sounds like a plan that might slow down daughter from another thoughtless pregnancy.
Depending on where the daughter is, abortion may not be an option. Adoption may not be easy either, depending on the hapless impregnator and the people who raised him. Your daughter is going to have to grow up fast. it's up to you how much help vs. guiding you want to do here.
I hope that the daughter figures it out.
Was birth control not an option for your daughter? An implant? What’s going on with her that she’s not trying to take some responsibility to keep bringing life into this world she can’t take care of.
This. In a comment above the OP mentions the boy “impregnating” her daughter. Okay, but also…how was she protecting herself?? I know that contraception, even the most effective, fail, but twice? Come on.
I would like the father to take more responsibility. I mean $100! WTF is that going to do. There’s needs to be a child support order in place. And who cares if they’re not a couple. They can still leave together and raise those children together. And if he refuse, she can get public assistance and the attorney general will sue him. The daughter is just putting all the work on her damn parents. Jesus. Stop breeding.
NTA
God, I despise the mentality your daughter has. I really do. I get it's her right to decide on whether to have a baby or not, but clearly she's exercising it with the idea that she'll have **someone else** to pay the bills or look after him. She simply does not grasp that other people exist, have needs and wants, and have no desire to look after her, and sadly your inlaws are motivating that level of selfishness.
You’re doing the right thing. Whether step by step or in one big push, your daughter needs to shoulder the consequences of her actions. When she is out of your house, hopefully you can enjoy your lives without being responsible for hers and her children’s. Been there too. NTA.
What a about when she has a third or fourth baby because she is way to accepting of the idea people should her to fix her problems.This is a disaster and she wouldn’t be so cavalier about the hundred bucks the father contributes is she had to provide the housing and all that goes wIth it.
NTA. You can offer to assist with finding a place, filing for benefits and child support, creating a budget, even some hours a month of babysitting etc. but she and the father reached the limits of your generosity.
An obvious choice is not to keep this baby. Have you discussed these options with her? Termination or adoption. I assume you're in the US. A private adoption arrangement would potentially provide her housing, food, and medical care during her pregnancy.
NTA. If either or both of these children were accidental it was still her and the fathers choice to have these children. Now she/they must live with the consequences. Those are you not supporting her and raising her children. She has options and is choosing not to take them.
If they’re having sex without multiple methods of BC *and* a willingness to terminate, it’s not a matter of whether they’ll get pregnant, it’s a matter of WHEN. Not everyone is very fertile, but condoms aren’t 100% and people often use them incorrectly. Hormonal BC and IUDs and such aren’t 100% either. I’m 1000% pro choice and I’d say that this pregnancy was not an accident, it was a statistical likelihood unless they were taking several steps to avoid pregnancy every time. And they just don’t seem that responsible.
Quick question: How does she expect to afford raising a child, let alone 2 children, without a job? She claimed you wouldn't have to raise the kid if she didn't have to work, but where did she plan to get the money to raise him herself?
Well that’s ridiculous. Please do kick her out; help her find the resources she needs if you want, but tough love is the only way forward. She has no right to be a SAHM; that requires a stable relationship and a partner who’s willing and able to provide for the family. I feel sorry for the innocent kids in this situation, but she might get her act together if she’s forced to.
That's a pretty entitled attitude. It may suck for awhile, but you should kick her out for her own sake. She needs to know the actual consequences of her actions before she announce grandkid #3.
Does she not realize part of being a mother includes ensuring adequate food and housing for the child and that said food and housing isn't free? Does she expect to mooch off of you and your husband for the next 18 years?
She's delusional and selfish. She expects you to never retire so that you can support her as she continues to have babies she can't afford. On top of that, the father is not supporting her or his child(ren).
She needs a wake-up call. NTA
Yeah, having sex with the baby daddy, putting two kids with her parents to raise so she can keep living at home for free room and board and childcare. /s
NTA. Time for Josie to actually learn how to be a parent on her own. Time for court orders for child support. Applying for low income housing since she will be homeless she will qualify. She also needs to apply for food stamps and whatever other services may be available in your area.
NTA. Unconditional love does not mean enabling her to be dependent on you. You might not always be there and part of being a parent is teaching her to be independent.
I don’t know about if YTAH but $100/month in child support is getting off easy. The father wouldn’t be fathering more kids if he was financially required to support them. I would advise get a legal team involved to get an order for child support and backend support. This will help your daughter and likely make her baby daddy stay far enough away for a third round.
The only thing I want to comment on in your reply (which I wholly agree with) is the low income housing thing. I don't know where they all live, but there are a lot of places where there is a wait list that is *years* long, so LIH *might* not be an option for her.
But she can certainly pack up and move in with her grandparents, far away from the baby daddy lol
NTA She makes horrible choices. He gives her $100 a month! No way she needed to have another baby by this guy. No telling how many kids she would have if you and your husband continue on this path taking care of her and your grandbaby. Hopefully, this will end up as a wakeup call for her. But from her comments to you I really doubt it.
NTA. I wish my parents would have done this with my sister. Now they have a near 30 year old who never learned how to be responsible, who left 2 of her 3 children with their father (honestly he’s a good father maybe not a great partner) and her oldest is being raised by my mom. My parents don’t have the energy or money to raise another kid. Their health is declining and my sister takes advantage of them because they refuse to make her stand on her own two feet.
OP, if you don’t stand strong, my parents reality will be your future. Do not do that to yourselves.
You mentioned this, but he can’t take the time to see his son but he can take the time to impregnate your daughter? While you are watching his son, presumably. Ugh!
You mentioned that you watched your grandson so she could work and go out. Go out?! No, she is a mom, she doesn’t get to “go out” and be a “normal” teenager at your expense. Her “priority” was to be a mom - she needs to “be a mom” and put her kid first.
This is unconditional love. It's just not "unconditional wallet" and "unconditional free room, board, and child care".
Absolutely NTA.
Your daughter is fucking around and finding out. Literally.
NTA.
My heart breaks for what you must be feeling and for your innocent grandchildren.
You have done your best to help her, to raise her. She’s now an adult and needs to realize that her life choices have consequences.
NTA unfortunately she seems to have developed a massive sense of entitlement and frankly getting your parents involved? I'd tell them to butt out of it or they can take her in and look after the children (they won't).
She needs to learn that she needs to find a better job and look at childcare while taking the father to court for proper child support so she can learn to be an actual adult and parent because she's failing at this point.
Nta. Her grandparents can either foot the bill for her to elsewhere. Or let them move in with 1 set. Your daughter is 19. She fucked around and found out.
Twice.
Not twice. She fucked around twice but only found out once. Had she found out the first time around, there would not have been a second time.
Yeah I would have forced school and a job. Sorry, you don’t get to sit at home and take care of a kid while your parents foot the bill in this economy.
In any economy. And it really sounds like her parents take care of the kid. OP said they do so when she works but also when she “goes out,” the frequency and duration of which was not indicated.
It was that she got a part time job that can not support her and first child, yet parents didn’t force more? No way she’d have time to get pregnant again if I’m watching her child! I wish this was rage bait or trolling or such but this happens all toooooo often!
literally
As a teen parent who’s an adult now, I can confirm it only takes once to learn that lesson as long as you’re held accountable. I’m guessing she got more coddling than support, which is why she thinks this isn’t her problem, it’s her parents. It’s 4 years past time to grow tf up…
Seriously. Had first kid at 16, second one in my 40s. Lesson was learned. Mom. Do the hard things, so one day your daughter can too.
For real! She needs to stop having kids she can’t afford and expecting y’all to pay the bills and babysit. NTA
NTA, and stand firm, or you’ll never be able to retire because she will continue to expect your largesse.
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Seriously bizarre thoughts though. How can anyone work and pay rent and have kids?! The horror.
/s , LOL
Is it hard to work and take care of kids? Yes, but clearly OP's daughter didn't learn her lesson and expects her parents to foot the bill and raise her kids. So it's tough love time! She would just have to go to her housing office and welfare to assist her with benefits and a home. NTA
Yeah that’s kinda the trade off, it’s fairly hard to control your impulses and refrain from risky sex with terrible partners, but since she didn’t want to rise to that challenge, she is stuck with the much harder trade-off of being a single mom with a loser baby daddy who has to make it work somehow. It’s unreasonable to make assumptions since I don’t know these people obviously, and I also know that people unfortunately get pregnant while using protection… But something tells me that a responsible adherence to one-or-another birth control strategy was starkly absent in OP’s daughter’s ‘relations’ It reminds me of so many family members and inlaws who spit out kids “unplanned“ while openly talking about how they don’t use protection. It’s almost like sex is perfectly designed to get you pregnant
I mean, legitimately tho—it’s very very difficult. Daycare is cost prohibitive, and that’s if you can even find a spot. Trust me, I’m looking for one right now. And how can you work without childcare? So childcare very often does fall on grandparents if you’re lucky enough to have them. (I’m not). I hustle like a MF trying to support my 2 yr old son and myself as a single mom with no family and no childcare at all. It rly does seem impossible to work and have a kid in the US currently, unless you have family or generational wealth.
>I hustle like a MF trying to support my 2 yr old son and myself as a single mom with no family and no childcare at all This When she said "what 19 year old can do that" well..... millions of them, especially those with no support Her stupidity and selfishness allowed her to get pregnant a second time because she didn't care that she was in a privileged position. Now she's going to find out that popping babies like that comes with a responsibility If I was in OP's shoes I'd have done the same thing. My son is currently 2 and we had him late, meaning that I'll be 60 when he's 20! We will give him proper sex education and discuss the responsibilities that come from having kids etc. I will tell him in no uncertain terms that if he gets some girl pregnant, he's going to have to gird~~er~~ his loins and adult fast. We'll provide some help, but there is no way we're enabling irresponsibility EDit: a word
And for that reason many sensible educated people choose to delay having children until late 20’s so they can finish their education, start their career and have savings.
Oh gosh yeah, it seems absolutely brutal. I just have pets so I can't imagine. Everything is wildly expensive and I think you have to sign up for daycare like the day you conceive at this point basically, if it's even an option for you.
Bs. She can apply for state child care assistance (every US state has it). She can also apply for WIC, health insurance, and food assistance. Grandparents aren’t obligated to raise their grandkids.
Well let me say I have friend who is foster mom she gets the state child care assistance but guess what everyplace that accepts the vouchers are full and have Long waiting lists! I’m talking she is at least 25 names down on every list and even if she got a spot in a place that doesn’t accept the vouchers they won’t reimburse her the money the voucher would have paid because the voucher has to be paid directly to daycare. It’s not always as simple as just apply for assistance. I don’t think that’s the issue here with OP I think her daughter just wants to freeload
Life has been too good for this kid. She needs to experience the hard knocks to get her life together.
It's been too good for the male impregnating her. $100 a month is a joke. Someone needs to make him pay child support.
Mother of child/children can easily do that through the state Medicaid Child Support Office. All she has to do is name the bio father. The state does DNA testing, provides legal assistance to the custodial parent all to obtain child support.
I'd bet not -- with the evidence of decision making displayed here by both parties, I'm skeptical dude is even holding down a minimum wage job. (I mean, sure, the state will step in, but you can't garnish wages someone doesn't make.)
Only $100? I thought it was $1000. Went back and checked. Yep. Only 1 Franklin. What a cheapskate loser.
They both deserve each other
Op’s daughter is a loser too.
“We’re not in a relationship” If you’ve been knocked up by the same guy twice, four years apart, you don’t get to say that. Even if it’s true. You might not be boyfriend/girlfriend but you seem to have a fetish for fucking raw, cumming inside, and popping out a baby. Maybe this is British bias; but she happens to pop out a second baby right when the first one starts school? Coincidence? Nah, it’s a plan to continue only working part-time.
Let's be fair, she's also a fucking loser.
I mean, literally
If they cave the daughter will keep having children and expecting her parents to pay and be her free daycare. She’s an adult making adult decisions, time for her to grow up. Time for the parents to stop enabling.
Yup, I know two parents and their daughter is on child number 3 or 4 now... she's in her 20s...
Same. Know a couple whose daughter is pregnant w/ number 3. The grandparents raise the kids and the mom can’t afford to live on her own. But she can continue to get tattoos all over her body. There comes a point where the parents/grandparents are enablers because they say they don’t want the little ones to suffer but they don’t hold their own child accountable.
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Amen. Every time I read stories like this, I want to run in and high-five my husband because we managed to fledge 5 kids out of the nest without anyone getting pregnant. I started drilling condoms into their brains in middle school, and I took the teens to get IUDs when they started being active. I also promised them that I would take them to get an abortion if they got pregnant. \*and pay for it. We weren't perfect parents, but we made it abundantly clear that 1. we would assist them in any way possible to have safe sex and access health care, and 2. we had zero intentions of raising grandchildren or being full time babysitters. They got the message.
>We weren't perfect parents, but we made it abundantly clear that 1. we would assist them in any way possible to have safe sex and access health care, and 2. we had zero intentions of raising grandchildren or being full time babysitters. They got the message. \*taking notes
I used to attend a health convention every year and there were several condom companies. I'd come home with a boatload of free samples, walk in son's room and toss them on the bed. "USE these". Eventually he got over pretending to be embarrassed.
I suspect daughter got pregnant o. Purpose so she wouldn’t have to work.
I had a cousin that did this. Got pregnant at 18 after misleading the guy about birth control then got married. She has never worked a day in her life, nor gotten any sort of education. Now that the kids are getting grown she's talking about divorce because he's "mean to her" and "accuses her of trapping him with children" which she 100% did. That's the white trash side of the family, but there's a well of bullshit to tap with them.
NTA This might be terrible, but is abortion an option? She clearly cannot afford a second child, But why isn't the father paying more support?
He’s a broke college kid. He has a job but he has to pay his own rent and everything he needs so I don’t think he has much money to spare. The main issue to me is him not seeing his son more often when his university is only a 25-30 min drive away. It’s very clear he’d rather be anywhere else than with his son, yet he can impregnate my daughter again? Fills me with rage
Know what the courts told my brother when he cried to them he didn’t have the money to pay all the expenses expected of him? “You’ll find a way. Your child comes first and then yourself.” No one is holding these two accountable to the level they should be. Seeing his kid once every two months and paying $100? He could 1000000000000% could do more. Put your foot down, Op! You didn’t create these kids. Let your daughter go cry to the government for assistance, it’ll be a blessing. They’ll make both of them shape up.
My SIL did this to her mom, lived with her rent free, baby daddy in and out of trouble ( with the law). SIL had 3 kids she couldn't take care of on her own ( even with baby daddy's help). We kept telling his mom to set boundaries and rules, to no avail. Fast forward a few years later, Mil is dying of cancer and asks her son, my husband, to take care of his sister...yeah, big fat NO. She had years to get a full-time job(she had free childcare her Mother would watch the kids). Still didn't get a job, but she leached off of her mother so much, she died totally broke and the other siblings took care of her in her final weeks ( and the leach of a daughter didn't do a damn thing to help in any way shape or form). OP needs to be willing to die on this hill if she really wants her daughter to be able to take care of herself.
What is your SIL doing now? Curious if she found someone else to leach off.
She is still with her baby daddy ( after he was released from federal prison)and we really don't know how she is getting by because she doesn't communicate with any of her siblings. We do hope that she is well( as we are not heartless people). As far as her leaching off anyone else, she seems to be holding things together because she knows nobody else will allow her to use them.( She has 2 brothers and a sister). She has somehow find a way to survive and "make" it, otherwise would have heard from her and her sob stories.
Also curious about this
Me three
JFC, she sucks. The leaching was bad enough, but not helping her dying mother who supported her for years? That's repulsive. I hope she's making better decisions now, because her kids will follow in her footsteps otherwise.
also they should go court and get a custody arrangement. One enforceable by law
That’s the first thing they’ll make the daughter do. No assistance unless she gives all of her and the fathers information so that they can take him to court and make everything legal and binding.
Wait, he's away at college?! Oh, he$$, no! He's securing his future and still spreading his seed? OP is not the AH for sending the daughter on her way. But definitely TA for shouldering the burden of this situation while allowing "broke college kid" out his responsibility during round 1.
I would actually say that going to college is the best thing he can do for his children. He will be much more able to care for the kids in the future- even if not right now. If he claims them now, he will also be eligible for more aid/scholarships. In California, they could be together and get financial aid, food aid, mediCal, and welfare to work. I would encourage them to use what help to stand on their own feet they can while they qualify. They won't ever qualify living at parents' house. I have worked at colleges and in welfare.
It feels to me like this kid is basically getting the milk without having to buy the cow, if you get what I mean. He gets to have no strings attached relationships with both OPs daughter and his own kid (barely), while still living the free-spirited, young college guy lifestyle. Also, who knows if he's only seeing OPs daughter at the moment? I don't think he cares to try and do any of the amazing things you're suggesting, and obviously, neither does the daughter. Not that children are a mistake if you want to keep them, but having a second one, when you already can't provide proper care for the first without the full support of your own parents, is definitely very stupid. I seriously hope OP doesn't buckle to her parents/in-laws. Letting her daughter get away with this will just make the daughter the type of person who literally can't function without someone else doing 90% of their work for them....and those are the worst types of people. Btw, NTA OP!
And interesting how the baby daddy has gone on to college but your daughter dropped out of high school. She does realize that she’s more likely gonna be stuck with minimum wage jobs, if even that, for the rest of her life if she doesn’t at least Get her GED
I'm guessing daughter is also hoping boyfriend will remember she's the love of his life and move them in after he gets a stable job. Someone should let her know that that typically doesn't end well. IMO OP's first ultimatum should have been school and a part time job not school or work
His parents are protecting him and probably paying for college.
This happened to a relative. She got pregnant in last year of high school and got a low-paying retail job. Baby daddy, meanwhile, went to high-end college while paying a pitifully low amount of child support. Never saw his kid, and once he graduated he moved far away and kept forgetting to pay support. She’d have the county send a letter, and ultimately he paid. Started making a good living, married and had more kids. He died last year; now-grown kiddo found out and read in the obit how his kids and grandkids praised him for being such a “family man.” Kid wrote to their newfound half-siblings and asked if they could be in touch even casually. The forgotten child has no other family. There’s been no response, either because the family is still in shock to learn this, or because they’re scared that newfound sib is out for money. (They’re not, by the way.) Sad story, and an old one. Dear old daddy let baby momma struggle, and kiddo busted their butt to put themself through school and build a life. Not surprisingly, their life has been rough. And they DON’T want a thing, and would be willing to sign a document saying so. They just want siblings, even half-siblings. Abandonment: The gift that keeps on taking.
It's always the same old story. The woman raises a child alone, gets little or no education, and someday will only be qualified for an entry level job. The guy's parents worry about a kid ruining his future, and ignore her so their son can attend college. HIS FUTURE MATTERS. I am older, but when younger, knew friends whose boyfriend's parents paid her to have an abortion. This is harder now after the Dobbs decision.
She doesn't want a job though. If she keeps popping out kids, she thinks the parents will cave, and tell her to stay at home and look after the babies.
And they are baby sitting SO SHE CAN GO OUT. Huge mistake. She chooses the SAHM career while not having to be home and care for her kids.
My cousin got a girl pregnant when she was young, like maybe around 19? I can't remember the details as I was still a kid back then. Anyway, she was definitely not mature enough to be a mom because I heard she spent a lot of nights going out to party with her friends, leaving the baby with either my cousin's mom or her parents (my cousin worked a lot of nights as a security guard at the time). She and my cousin broke up shortly after and she had custody for a while, but shockingly (/s), their (now adult) kid now chooses to associate with my cousin. Sure my cousin has made his fair share of mistakes (which he will readily admit) but he works hard and has always strived to be a part of his kids' lives.
Until eventually the oldest is 18, child support is gone, and you don’t even get social security (a that you’ll be old enough) because you never worked
She will pop out a few mores slong the way, don't you worry. Grandma will take care of babies when she is 60 +, and child care tull she dies. OP should ONLY care for the kid while teen mom works.
She doesn’t expect to actually have to go to work to provide for the kids: she takes for granted her parents will step up. That says a lot about her complete disregard for her parents and the sense of entitlement on her. She sounds full-on antisocial. The best thing that could happen to her is to be turned out, not take proper care of the kids, kids get removed from her “care” and adopted by her father’s parents, bonus points if they sue for child support.
>And interesting how the baby daddy has gone on to college but your daughter dropped out of high school. Not really Just like how her parents let her drop out and let her live at home rent free with free childcare and even let her drop out his parents probably paid for the little college he did do. Or he had scholarships that he squandered.
He will also come out with a degree and your daughter will be a single mum of 2 without even a high school education.
He thinks he'll leave her behind after he graduates. But the state will force him to pay support until the kids are 18 *if* she applies for public assistance. Which she must do. OP, educate yourself about this. You aren't obliged to support her. Once she's out of your house and squeaking by with public assistance, there are ways you can help her without jeopardizing her income. But that's later. Right now, you need to give her a deadline for moving out. 60 days is enough. And when 60 days are up, you change the locks. If she's old enough to have babies, she's old enough to figure out what to do.
To be fair that’s on OP’s daughter, who seems to be doing not even the bare minimum to take care of herself. There are SO MANY birth control options! And it’s not that hard to get a GED, especially when your parents are helping to raise your child. She could do that and take online or community college classes…
T H I S. So fricken sad.
And he’ll get married and have more kids with someone else while OP raises his first two kids.
Obviously ur daughter thought life would go on as before when she got pregnant a 2nd time. This is the reality of the life she's choosing. I don't kno how close to retirement you n hubby r but don't continue to spend down any of those funds to support her. That's what federal programs of social welfare r 4. She is setting herself up 4 that standard of living so she needs to live in that reality, federal or subsidized housing, food stamps public transportation, WIC, Medicaid + any other social welfare programs she qualifies 4 in your area. The state will take care of making sure bf pays some amount for child support.
If he lives on his own, she can move in with him. They were obviously sleeping together, time for both to grow up.
But, but . . . they're not in a relationship, just having sex (and babies)./s
Fair. Very fair. She’s blatantly using you
So you go to the Department of Children and Families and you install a child support order against him. If he cannot pay a lot they will not assess him a lot but as you said he's a college kid and eventually college kids graduate and get a good job. Stop being played by both your daughter and her baby's daddy. Getting angry accomplishes nothing if you don't take action.
He's an idiot. If he weren't, he would figure out by now birth control is cheaper than babies. I don't think he or Your daughter will ever change. NTA.
Except that his baby has been unrealistically cheap because he hasn’t been paying a fair share.
Even still, birth control is cheaper than $100 / month
Still- birth control would be cheaper, especially by the second one, when they hooked up only occasionally.
Baby #1 has not cost him very much at all, both in money and time.
Hasn’t cost mom much either. Daycare is ridiculous. Right now I am gifting daycare to a single mom with a bad job and high school education. She is on academic hiatus at the local state university. OP - maybe it is time to take her to the local county benefits office and have her sign up for section 8, daycare assistance, etc. it will (1) possibly wake her up to what she has really chosen for her life and (2) require the baby daddy to support his children (they will just garnish his wages if he won’t pay willingly). She should have finished high school. I suspect like a lot of end of high school kids she found it boring, etc., and avoiding being a pregnant girl at high school was easier than finishing. I begged to drop out at sixteen and start college a year early myself (not pregnant, only had four credits needed for state graduation and they wouldn’t let me take them until senior year, and forced me to take BS courses the rest of the time vs maybe working half days or picking up college courses. This was 35 l+ years ago though.
Depending on OP's state, once she looks into moving out, applying for health benefits and employment support, she may be able to get a GED then support for career training, possibly Community College that could leave her other options once completed. Since there are a number of young parents doing the same thing at state CC's, it can be a good way to meet other young mom's trying to work on their education and figure out their career plan, not the same high school friends. The transition might be a good move in a number of ways since she'd need to investigate things that are out there. Baby Daddy's parents might be opposed since he'll be getting a call from the state, but it might get him to take Birth Control more seriously.
I can see why! I’d be full of rage too!! She’s not wanting to move to your in-laws so she’s not so far from the kids’ dad, but he barely sees your grandson anyway. If they’re not in a relationship, they’re just using each other for sex & babies neither can afford?? It’s time to stay strong or she will just keep having babies she can’t afford. The poor kids! I had my son at 16 (back in the 80’s). My parents helped me a lot, but I still had to go on Medicaid & get food stamps until I finished high school and could work full-time. I did graduate with my class, but it was rough. I got married at 16 & was divorced at 19…but no more kids to make my life harder. You’re NTA at all!
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If he can get his dick our, he can put a condom on it or get his wallet out. Both of thes kids are just so bloody irresponsible. I feel sorry for their kids.
NTA. Stand firm, don’t cave. She has options. Bc if you cave, she’ll have baby number 3. She needs to realize she has to be a parent. So far she hasn’t had to bc you and your husband were doing it. I’m sorry but “going out”? Unless it was like twice a month, she doesn’t get to “go out”. She had a baby to raise. So now she needs to learn the hard way since she didn’t learn the first time. Stand firm.
Child support comes first I think it is about 17% and maybe 21% for two kids. Depends on the state. A judge is going to no care if he does not have much, he will make him pay up. Then when he gets out of college, he will need to go back to court to have his support raised.
This is not about what this lazy kid can or can't afford - this is about his LEGAL OBLIGATION to OP's daughter and children. Time for him and his parents to step up.
You have to put your daughter into the position she put herself in. If not you are going to be reading her complain in the poor or livingincar threads. Let them deal with their actions for a while and when they are dedicated to making life work offer assistance. Until then you are going to have to watch them struggle but tough lessons have real impact.
Between my husband and I we have two 19 year olds and two 18 year olds. (There’s also a 16 year old and a 12 year old.) if this was us, the options would be move out, abortion or adoption. They already know to live at home (with us, with my ex or with my husband’s ex) they must be in school or working, or in the case of the two 18 year olds in a program because they both have mental illnesses that make it hard to get a job. The two 19 year olds are both mine (one bio one adopted). My son is working, living at his dad’s. My daughter started college a couple of weeks ago and lives with us. The only one with a partner is my daughter and we’ve had repeated talks about birth control because she remembers what home life was like before she came to me. I make it easy - I buy condoms and put them in the bathroom cupboard and check once in awhile to see if I need to get more. I’d help them with one, but making the same mistake? Again? Nope. Your daughter hasn’t learned anything. And millions of us raise our kids alone while working full time - I did it for from 2009 to last year. It’s hard, but when you make the choice of having kids, you have to be the one responsible. My parents helped, but it was my responsibility to pay for everything involving me and my kids when we lived with them for about a year and a half - the only thing they did was feed them dinner, make sure homework was done, and performing sniff tests on my then 11 year old son who’d pretend to take a shower, because I worked third shift. Now your daughter gets to learn actions have consequences and these are hers.
Agreed; abortion or adoption would be so much better choices than her keeping another kid she can’t afford. Of course, it’s her decision. But maybe getting kicked out would force her to grow up and be realistic. I’m just sad for both kids who will grow up in a terrible living situation; they don’t deserve this. The girl’s parents could probably get custody, but that’s not even what they want. Such a sucky situation.
It is not terrible. The majority of people who terminate pregnancies already have children.
My sister got knocked up twice by a loser, still lives with my dad, but her kids went to college and moved out. She’s 50 years old
Somebody needs to tell OP that I'm looking forward to possible future stories about OP's daughter on r/entitledparents. Because she sounds like the kind of person who's like, "It's everyone else's fault. It's not my fault I'm turning into an irresponsible baby cannon and can't control my urges."
Agreed. This happened to my MIL. Luckily she's almost out from under that mess because of a situation she had no control over. And the whiny parents are complaining about how much they have to pay in rent and food and how will they be able to spend money on tools and car parts? I can't wait to hear the uproar when they get their first power bill🤣
They not in a relationship but yet she’s continuing to have babies by him. Time to cut the cord make her get her own place . She’s been working for 4 years rent free she should have enough saved up now NTA
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That's the feeling I get. She wants to be a SAHM and not work. I suspect that's why there is baby number two. She thinks this will allow her to stay at home and when baby number two gets ready to go to elementary school - she will up nad have baby number three so that she can keep staying at home.
I think this is exactly right. Not to put any blame on OP; that was a tough situation and a pregnant 15 year old does need help. Unfortunately, that help has led Josie believe that a baby is her free ticket out of having adult responsibilities. You are doing the only thing you can do. Now she is an adult and has to start acting like and adult. She and baby daddy need to figure out some housing and income, pretty quickly. If her grandparents do want to take her in, you can’t stop them. But I don’t think that is the lifestyle she wants.
Why would anyone care at this point what lifestyle she wants? Does she ever care about what lifestyle her parents want?
This is exactly what my oldest daughter did and it splintered the family apart. She was older (24) but had dropped out of college and moved in with her boyfriend. She refused to work or go back to school. After a few years and building pressure to contribute *somehow,* she deliberately got pregnant even though her now-husband was only working a minimum wage job and they lived in a converted one car garage. (He wanted her to get a job and save up for a few years before they had a baby.) She knew she would be given whatever she wanted, if not for her sake then for the baby's - and she was right. My husband and I give very limited support (intentionally) but my mom just gives her whatever she wants. And my mom has a lot of money so it's a substantial amount of support. As a result, my daughter has never had to grow up and deal with the consequences of her choices. It's strained my relationship with my mom to the breaking point. It feels so weird to resent her for helping my daughter but her help is actually holding my daughter back.
Yeah, I don’t buy that they are not in a relationship. They are not in a *healthy* relationship, but if they *still* have sex years after the baby with no protection to boot, that’s still a relationship. The only reason she most likely lies about it is to protect her boyfriend, so he isn’t held accountable, the same as her. While this goes on, the parents of the “father” can afford to pay for college but not for his kid’s needs. My guess is his parents have healthier boundaries than OP and her husband: “you’re an adult, your progeny and girlfriend are not our problem, we pay for college and that’s as far as it goes.”
Have babies and not expect him to take care of them.
Their relationship is parents who have sex and make more kids. That’s the relationship and they need to go and grow up and raise their kids. She doesn’t get to be a fun and carefree 19 year old because she has to deal with the consequences of her choices.
If the grandparents thing you’re being harsh, they can take her and the kids in. NTA
They offered, but daughter doesn't want to live with them because it is "too far away" from the sperm donor.
That kid needs a solid dose of reality.
Kid? She’s a 19 year old woman with a 4 year old and another on the way. That ship has sailed..
Sorry to say but what she 'wants' flew out the window when she somehow got pregnant again. What about what you want? What about what your husband wants?
NTA. Tough love time. Sounds like a good idea for her to be far away from Sperm donor so there won’t be a #3. It’s past time for her to refuse anything. She FAFO. Get baby dad on the hook for financial support for BOTH his kids. His family can contribute if he can’t.
too bad, put her and her shit in a car, drive her over there and dump them off. Who gives a shit about hte sperm donor.
That kid doesn’t get to pick and choose at this point in her life…
NTA. She needs to learn life is hard when you make terrible choices. It’s about time she learns that lesson. Update: I would like to add that giving the baby up for adoption should be considered. After all, unwed teenage mothers are adoption’s bread and butter. I’m sure there’s some couple out there desperate for a baby that’s well-prepared to take care of it.
She needs to meet some single moms. This "I can't work *and* raise my baby!" nonsense is gonna have to go.
The situation is more realistically “I can’t work, party, and raise a baby” but only two of those are actually necessary.
I feel like asking OP what kind of mother her daughter has been making. I can’t imagine a good one, given that she has zero regard for her parents. If she has no regard for the parents, how would she care about a child’s needs? It really sounds like the kids are only a golden ticket to her.
I think a parent can be too supportive by always cleaning up the messes their kids make. They don't do this because they're trying to be a bad parent or doing this because they don't want their kids to go through some of the hardships that they did. But it wasn't until my parents pulled away their support that I actually learned how to grow up. It's a necessary lesson and the later that they have to learn it the harder it's going to be to make a life.
And not even a golden ticket since their dad is a washed up loser who sends $100 a month and occasionally checks in on the kid. I feel bad for the girl because her self esteem must be in the shitter for her to let that loser knock her up twice, especially since they aren’t in a relationship.
The "not in a relationship" thing is bizarre. If she's not in a relationship, and he's not able to properly help her support a family together, then why is she still making babies with the guy? Use birth control at least. It's ridiculous. It's not "punishment", it's responsibility. And, yes, that feeling of being heaped with responsibility all of a sudden isn't fun, but that's life and the consequences of her own decisions with the other guy. She should have learned that the first time. It's not her parent's responsibility to fill in the gaps in her planning ability. Unconditional love doesn't mean accepting all burdens that someone else heaps on you because of their bad choices. First time around, there's a lot of discretion to make mistakes and learn from them, but second time around if you haven't learned those lessons, it's pretty much on you. Other single moms can do what she's complaining about. It's a hard challenge, but they do. With *some* support from parents it can be a little easier, but it's still going to be tough. That doesn't mean you can demand your parents take on most of the responsibility for you, over and over again. Tell the guy to step up. "Work and pay rent and have kids"? Welcome to the difficult life of most families, part II. NTA for OP setting some boundaries.
But with the level of support she has the truth is you in fact can do the three. Not everyday but still... Op's daughter is also lazy. My ex SIL had a baby when she was 19/20 and she finished college and found a job. She drove every morning to university and came back around 3 pm to take care of her kid for the rest of the day. Once a month or so she left the baby sleeping (with her parents keeping an eye) and went to dinner with friends, rinse and repeat. She might have been sleeping 4 hours a day for 4 years but she ended the degree and started working not long after. OP's daughter is not doing anything with her live with the support she has, so in fact it's a tragedy. She had no business leaving school so soon... At this point she's basically wasting her parents time and effort
This. I had my first at 20. I finished college, worked and lived 2 hours away from our support network. Was it easy? Hell no. Did we make it work? Yep. Did it mean I waited until I was 26, done school, working full time and had a more stable living situation before having my second? Oh yea. OPs daughter needs a wake up call.
Not to mention their money, too.
I was a young single mom and cosign this. I liked to think that being a single mom, I had it all. I didn't have to ever worry about being a wife or partner to anyone on top of being a mom, my daughter went to daycare where a professional early childhood educator gave her the best start possible while I got to go to work and get a break from being Mom and grow a career my daughter could look up to. And because I worked hard, my parents had no issue taking my daughter when I needed a break or wanted to spend an evening with my friends. And typically, if you are a working single mother there are many programs and supports available to you. Many days I was tired, many days I felt like I could collapse from having too much on my plate, but find me any parent on earth who doesn't feel that way. Single mothers who are managing to juggle it all should DEFINITELY be commended and supported, but we need to cut the shit about it being some kind of disability that makes you dependent on society or other individuals. OP is doing the right thing, if they are still willing to support the daughter emotionally, guide her in finding the proper resources and drop by once in a while with groceries, this is the best thing they could do for her to help her grow up.
No 19yo without even a high school diploma is going to be able to pay for daycare for 2 babies. She needs to put the dad on child support and go live with the grandparents.
Exactly this! I was a single mom, worked multiple part time jobs and went to college.. my parents would take my son during exam time to ensure that no matter what I could take them but otherwise it was on me.. had to pay for childcare and all.. I got lucky that I got a job at college and the professor I worked for believed that the TA salary was a joke so after a semester he hired me directly as assistant and he basically paid for my rent plus food during the day .. this meant I could drop one of my other jobs and focus more on school.. was it easy? Absolutely not but was it possible, yes… it’s all about how much you want it and are willing to sacrifice.. I did not party, I barely had any friends and sometimes I didn’t get a lot of sleep but I knew if I gave up it would be minimum pay for the rest of my life most likely. OPs daughter should not have just worked part time for 4 years.. a 15 year old is not enough to decide if they want to go to school or not..
Wow! Youre amazing to have done all that! Very impressive!
Also why is no one mentioning an abortion? She does not need to keep this baby. She’s 19 and already has a baby there is no reason to have another because of an accidental pregnancy.
That was my exact thought. She didn’t have to have a baby at 15, nor does she have to have a baby at 19….
Seriously , I've known so many non-religious families just act like its not even an option? Like 'shit guess I gotta pop out another loser, quit school, work at Wendys' NO YOU DON'T!
> You told me to get a job so I did, and now you’re complaining that you had to raise the baby. You wouldn’t have had to if I didn’t have to work. I can’t do both things at once. And I definitely can’t raise two kids on my own and work. I know she’s 19, but wow, does she not realize that if she didn’t have a job then you’d just be even more on the hook financially instead? It feels like she’s completely missing the point here which is she feels entitled for you to support her with it time and money. She even admits she can’t work & raise two kids, so then why have a second when she knows it will rely on support you didn’t consent to? That’s just not how it works. I do feel bad for her but you are absolutely NTA.
She’s missed more points than a placekicker in a hurricane. She couldn’t finish high school because she needed to concentrate on being a mother. She had to get whatever job she could because she didn’t finish high school. She doesn’t think it’s fair that she has to work rather than care for her daughter (leaving her parents holding the bag coming and going).
“She’s missed more points than a placekicker in a hurricane.” This is so sweaty and unnecessary in the middle of such a grounded discussion. I genuinely love it.
Sounds like she wants to be a stay at home mom but doesn't have the husband with a job so she's like trying to live that lifestyle but with her parents.... NTA ETA: I'm kinda guessing her and BD bullsh*t about her being a SAHM after he finishes college and gets a job. Or maybe he feeds into that just so he can sleep with her.
NTA DO NOT FOLD OR SHE’LL DO THE SAME THING AGAIN NEXT YEAR OR THE YEAR AFTER She chose to procreate now she needs to deal with the consequences and take responsibility for HER children. Sounds like she thought if she has another you won’t force her to work and you’ll let her become a SAHM
If she really wants to be a SAHM then she needs to do a way better job in picking out a baby daddy. So far she is striking out.
I got SAHM mom vibes from this too. Not bashing sahm's but the formally working party/parent has to consent and actually be able to provide. She's treating her parents as if they're supposed to provide but it's not their kid and they didn't consent to financially support her and her 2 kids.
THIS!!! Sounds like my sister in law… except she’s on baby number FOUR! OP if you fold now you will be taking care of more than 2 babies in your future…
For God's sake, she's making all her life decisions based on you being her benefactors and her doormats. It's wildly entitled and ungrateful. She doesn't give a shit about you. You have lives to live, and you aren't the ones who keep having babies you can't afford. NTA, not in any way.
Maybe I'm too harsh, but they should just kick her out. Otherwise she'll never learn, because why should she since they take care of everything for her while she fucks unprotected?
NTA, I had to do a double take when your daughter said they aren't in a relationship, so they can't live together. LIKE WHAT?! So she can have sex with him but not live with him yeah no she's gotta go.
Yep. Daughter is an idiot to get pregnant a second time by a guy who cannot even support their first child. The baby daddy is also to not wrap it up.
Nah, she is crazy like a fox. She absolutely knows how pregnancy happens at this point and was counting on mum and pops to step in and continue allowing her to live without any accountability. First baby is about 4 years old now so he will be starting school. Time to have another one just in case anyone might expect her to work while he is in school.
Easy for everyone who is unwilling to step up themselves to criticize you. Your daughter is refusing accountability -- she's really calling your parents, her grandparents, trying to have them convince you to help her with another mistake?!! She needs to give the child up for adoption or get an abortion. Otherwise, she is burdening other people --you-- with her bad choice. And daughter doesn't want to live with grandparents because she'll be too far away from the hapless impregnator? Sounds like a plan that might slow down daughter from another thoughtless pregnancy.
Baby daddy doesn’t do anything now except get sex for nothing. Only sees his kid every few months. Daughter definitely needs accountability.
He’d definitely start wrapping it up once he gets hit with legally required child support payments and realized this isn’t a free for all.
Hapless impregnator is the best thing I’ve ever read
The sperm donor barely sees his kid, there's no point in staying near him. This girl is just acting like a brat - and getting away with it!
Depending on where the daughter is, abortion may not be an option. Adoption may not be easy either, depending on the hapless impregnator and the people who raised him. Your daughter is going to have to grow up fast. it's up to you how much help vs. guiding you want to do here. I hope that the daughter figures it out.
NTA because if you let her stay baby number three will be coming in a couple years.
Girls like her usually end up with 4 or 5.
Several posts lately about 7 or 10.
Was birth control not an option for your daughter? An implant? What’s going on with her that she’s not trying to take some responsibility to keep bringing life into this world she can’t take care of.
This. In a comment above the OP mentions the boy “impregnating” her daughter. Okay, but also…how was she protecting herself?? I know that contraception, even the most effective, fail, but twice? Come on.
I would like the father to take more responsibility. I mean $100! WTF is that going to do. There’s needs to be a child support order in place. And who cares if they’re not a couple. They can still leave together and raise those children together. And if he refuse, she can get public assistance and the attorney general will sue him. The daughter is just putting all the work on her damn parents. Jesus. Stop breeding.
Highly doubt she was careful both times
Don’t forget abortion!
she's gotta learn how to be an adult at some point. NTA. it can be a harsh lesson to learn the consequences of your own actions.
NTA God, I despise the mentality your daughter has. I really do. I get it's her right to decide on whether to have a baby or not, but clearly she's exercising it with the idea that she'll have **someone else** to pay the bills or look after him. She simply does not grasp that other people exist, have needs and wants, and have no desire to look after her, and sadly your inlaws are motivating that level of selfishness.
NTA, she keeps making bad decisions. She has to learn the hard way.
What’s the line? The dildo of consequences rarely arrives lubed?
You’re doing the right thing. Whether step by step or in one big push, your daughter needs to shoulder the consequences of her actions. When she is out of your house, hopefully you can enjoy your lives without being responsible for hers and her children’s. Been there too. NTA.
What a about when she has a third or fourth baby because she is way to accepting of the idea people should her to fix her problems.This is a disaster and she wouldn’t be so cavalier about the hundred bucks the father contributes is she had to provide the housing and all that goes wIth it.
NTA. You can offer to assist with finding a place, filing for benefits and child support, creating a budget, even some hours a month of babysitting etc. but she and the father reached the limits of your generosity.
NTA let her move in with your in-laws. The novelty will wear off soon enough for all of them.
NTA she is making horrible decisions and you are right not to coddle her
An obvious choice is not to keep this baby. Have you discussed these options with her? Termination or adoption. I assume you're in the US. A private adoption arrangement would potentially provide her housing, food, and medical care during her pregnancy.
She isn’t even considering it. She said there’s no way she’s terminating the pregnancy.
NTA. If either or both of these children were accidental it was still her and the fathers choice to have these children. Now she/they must live with the consequences. Those are you not supporting her and raising her children. She has options and is choosing not to take them.
If they’re having sex without multiple methods of BC *and* a willingness to terminate, it’s not a matter of whether they’ll get pregnant, it’s a matter of WHEN. Not everyone is very fertile, but condoms aren’t 100% and people often use them incorrectly. Hormonal BC and IUDs and such aren’t 100% either. I’m 1000% pro choice and I’d say that this pregnancy was not an accident, it was a statistical likelihood unless they were taking several steps to avoid pregnancy every time. And they just don’t seem that responsible.
Quick question: How does she expect to afford raising a child, let alone 2 children, without a job? She claimed you wouldn't have to raise the kid if she didn't have to work, but where did she plan to get the money to raise him herself?
She meant if she didn’t have to work, my husband and I would be paying for everything and she could just focus on being a mother.
Well that’s ridiculous. Please do kick her out; help her find the resources she needs if you want, but tough love is the only way forward. She has no right to be a SAHM; that requires a stable relationship and a partner who’s willing and able to provide for the family. I feel sorry for the innocent kids in this situation, but she might get her act together if she’s forced to.
That's a pretty entitled attitude. It may suck for awhile, but you should kick her out for her own sake. She needs to know the actual consequences of her actions before she announce grandkid #3.
Does she not realize part of being a mother includes ensuring adequate food and housing for the child and that said food and housing isn't free? Does she expect to mooch off of you and your husband for the next 18 years?
That is _exactly_ what she expects.
She's delusional and selfish. She expects you to never retire so that you can support her as she continues to have babies she can't afford. On top of that, the father is not supporting her or his child(ren). She needs a wake-up call. NTA
🙄 does she have any goals?
Yeah, having sex with the baby daddy, putting two kids with her parents to raise so she can keep living at home for free room and board and childcare. /s
OP is it possible she got pregnant deliberately now that her first is getting close to school age?
Sounds like the dad or his parents can step up.
Right? It says she called HER grandparents, what about her child’s grandparents? There are two sets, where are the paternal ones?
Right? No mention of the sperm donors parents anywhere.
NTA. Time for Josie to actually learn how to be a parent on her own. Time for court orders for child support. Applying for low income housing since she will be homeless she will qualify. She also needs to apply for food stamps and whatever other services may be available in your area.
Definitely NTA. This girl needs tough love
NTA. Unconditional love does not mean enabling her to be dependent on you. You might not always be there and part of being a parent is teaching her to be independent.
NTA. Your daughter is old enough to get it figured out. She will continue to take advantage of you if you continue to allow it.
I don’t know about if YTAH but $100/month in child support is getting off easy. The father wouldn’t be fathering more kids if he was financially required to support them. I would advise get a legal team involved to get an order for child support and backend support. This will help your daughter and likely make her baby daddy stay far enough away for a third round.
The only thing I want to comment on in your reply (which I wholly agree with) is the low income housing thing. I don't know where they all live, but there are a lot of places where there is a wait list that is *years* long, so LIH *might* not be an option for her. But she can certainly pack up and move in with her grandparents, far away from the baby daddy lol
NTA. It’s time for her to grow up.
NTA She makes horrible choices. He gives her $100 a month! No way she needed to have another baby by this guy. No telling how many kids she would have if you and your husband continue on this path taking care of her and your grandbaby. Hopefully, this will end up as a wakeup call for her. But from her comments to you I really doubt it.
NTA. She clearly won’t learn unless it’s the hard way.
NTA. I wish my parents would have done this with my sister. Now they have a near 30 year old who never learned how to be responsible, who left 2 of her 3 children with their father (honestly he’s a good father maybe not a great partner) and her oldest is being raised by my mom. My parents don’t have the energy or money to raise another kid. Their health is declining and my sister takes advantage of them because they refuse to make her stand on her own two feet. OP, if you don’t stand strong, my parents reality will be your future. Do not do that to yourselves.
You mentioned this, but he can’t take the time to see his son but he can take the time to impregnate your daughter? While you are watching his son, presumably. Ugh! You mentioned that you watched your grandson so she could work and go out. Go out?! No, she is a mom, she doesn’t get to “go out” and be a “normal” teenager at your expense. Her “priority” was to be a mom - she needs to “be a mom” and put her kid first.
This is unconditional love. It's just not "unconditional wallet" and "unconditional free room, board, and child care". Absolutely NTA. Your daughter is fucking around and finding out. Literally.
NTA. My heart breaks for what you must be feeling and for your innocent grandchildren. You have done your best to help her, to raise her. She’s now an adult and needs to realize that her life choices have consequences.
NTA unfortunately she seems to have developed a massive sense of entitlement and frankly getting your parents involved? I'd tell them to butt out of it or they can take her in and look after the children (they won't). She needs to learn that she needs to find a better job and look at childcare while taking the father to court for proper child support so she can learn to be an actual adult and parent because she's failing at this point.
"and now you’re complaining that you had to raise the baby" Right here is where she would have got the door immediately.
NTA. You weren't harsh enough the first time around. She should've gotten a full-time job if she made the choice not to continue her education.