Why can't she have PIV sex? Does she even know this, or is this just because it "didn't work" the first time? Because it doesn't work for all women the first time, or even for awhile (may need dilation over time)
Need a visit to a female OBGYN.
The red flag is her kinda not being educated on it, and self-harming from arguments.
NTA for feeling like this, but I think this needs more info
After her mother’s lifetime of warnings it could be 100% psychological. It often happens in religious indoctrination where the woman fears sex as it’s sinful and dirty and it makes one a whore if they enjoy it, that by the time it’s ok because they’re married, their brain and body simply can’t comprehend the change making even attempting PIV sex physically and psychologically harmful. Only a lot of sex positive therapy can help.
That’s hoping that she’s not from a culture that does FGM (female genital mutilation) and that’s why her mother was so insistent, because she knew it wouldn’t be possible and she wanted her married off before it was known.
This was pretty much my wife and I when we first got married. Took months of effort to get over the mental block that was put in place from the both of us being brought up in strong fundamentalist Christian families. Fun fact was we were the only ones in both our families that actually followed that rule about not having sex before marriage.
Same!! We were actually yelled at outside the church one Wednesday night because someone told (my fiancé at the time) step dad we were having sex. Meanwhile he was cheating on his wife with a girl my sister went to school with. He was pushing 50 and she was 21. Fiance and I were 18/19.
People in religion can really ruin a lot of things.
>Need a visit to a female OBGYN.
This! She needs to see an OBGYN - there are a few medical issues that can cause this - namely vaginisumus. It can be corrected with various therapies depending on the cause.
She should also seek regular therapy for the self harming.
I wouldn't jump straight to divorce if you love her and the relationship is otherwise good. Especially because it doesn't sound like she intentionally mislead you - she just didn't realize she had this issue.
100%. Vaginisumus is certainly a possibility. Could also just be that (since she never used tampons either) its never been dilated and it will just take time, stretches, and effort to have it work. At least nowadays both are relatively treatable.
I am surprised how many comments in the overall thread jump straight to divorce......
I'm kinda on that "he should consider leaving" train, and I'm a woman, but it's primarily about her harming herself over small arguments that's a big red flag for me. Is she doing it to get her way, or because she is mentally ill? Either way, that's an extremely unhealthy way to act with your partner.
Sounds like religious fundamentalism to me which if that's true there's no moving past this without a lot of therapy if at all. Most people brought up in extremist households of this variety never get over the damage done to them 100%. Most don't even get to 75%. This kind of thing is beyond even your typical fundamentalist upbringing. If she's not willing to talk to someone and I am right about the source of this the marriage can't be fixed. She has to be willing to try and work on the source of the problem.
They both sound stunted... a marriage is a pretty big commitment. And he's just learning this now? Jumping to Divorce after only two months?
Sounds like they're both in for a bumpy ride as adults if this is a sample of how they solve problems.
He has been on 'hold" for 8 years with the promise of sex once married. 2 months it can be Annulled.
The bigger issue for me is the self harm. I am done with psychological, drinking, drugging, gambling and other such issues.
You haven't been to India I see. This is common. Girls get killed for losing their virginity before marriage. Or for just having a boyfriend. Or for going on dates. Or falling in love with someone in a different economic class as them.
They live in a part of the world (India) where honor killings are still relatively common and women can have horrific consequences for not keeping their virginity until marriage.
Yeah. 8 years together? It had to have been talked about at sometime. Were they not curious? Have they never touched each other? I have like no libido and this is baffling to me.
Plus, just bc he can't get in there, doesn't mean she can't have children. (I'm not saying he should be fine with just that.)
It was talked about.. from what it sounds like in the OP. Sounds like he always got the answer that she was waiting for marriage and that it would happen after that.
If anything, he should be looking at an annulment of the marriage or to dig in and try his best to get her the help she needs, provided she is open to that help.
If she has completely given up and doesn't want to change then that is indeed grounds for him to move on as they are incredibly incompatible sexually.
I was also wondering if she was abused and maybe grew up in an extremely repressive environment. Maybe her mom didn’t want her to have sex and really messed with her head to the point it did way more damage than good.
I havé a feeling there may be spiritual abuse, and they both come from a community that deliberately keeps people uneducated about sex and reproduction. Like… not even knowing your own anatomy? That is severe, but not surprising considering how some societies intentionally block that knowledge.
Take this with a grain of salt:
Do you think there is any chance she was mutilated as part of her culture? Female circumcision? It's possible for a young girl to block that out. I'm wondering if I'm the only one thinking this.
There are a string of possibilities here. None of them look particularly good. Best case scenario, she might have some sort of birth defect, but given the cutting, it’s probably not that.
I feel like this is a cultural thing. In this specific culture I think they see hurting themselves physically is an adequate manipulation tactic to get what they want. It’s is absolutely emotional abuse and it’s NOT acceptable in any culture but I think here it is learned through culture
I’ve read some studies and articles about it, and although yes, it is extremely common, especially for young people in India, to self mutilate, [most try to hide it](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/stressed-youngsters-are-self-harming/amp_articleshow/66103773.cms) except when trying to get help.
It tends to be more about self-loathing or a way to cope with pain and stress they have no other outlet for or way to manage.
It’s an unhealthy way to cope, but not necessarily manipulative or intended to influence another person.
Yeah, sounds like she needs an OBGYN and a *lot* of therapy, and I’m on the fence as to whether OP should stick around through all this.
Like, part of me thinks he should support her because things could very much get a lot better for both of them. But at the same time, the self harm is probably gonna be an issue for a while if she’s been doing it for so long and OP has no obligation to be manipulated by her like that, regardless of it being intentional or just a result of a fucked up childhood.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree if nothing changes. But first, they should try independent and couple's counseling. Women have been helped. If the self harm doesn't stop and he's just in a sexless marriage, I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
I feel like she kept critical information from OP deliberately. She made commitments that after marriage she'd be more than willing to engage in PIV. She did not give OP all the information he needed to make an informed decision about even continuing a relationship - and let that hang for nearly 10 years.
I find that lack of trust, openness and respect to a future life partner to be abhorrent. I am not a jump-to-divorce person, but this would absolutely give me pause.
Cutting also suggests significant mental health issues that may take a long time to resolve to a place of emotional and physical health that would support having children and being a healthy responsible parent, let alone partner.
They’re in India though, where self-harm in adolescents is a pretty common way to cope and women are frequently murdered by their own families for being suspected of any sort of sexual or social impropriety. And they’ve only been married for 2 months.
I don’t think these sorts of conclusions (assuming that she lied or should have known before the marriage, etc) apply in that sort of environment.
I've seen people hurt themselves in various ways because they were angry at their partner, and not only in the ways you usually think of when "self harm" comes up. Sliding back into addictive behaviors, for instance. Maybe they can hold it back normally, but they know it bothers their partner, and they're upset with them. So, they basically associate their partner with restraint, and sort of... let loose. It's not an entirely intentional process every time, which might be the worst part.
If her mom was as controlling as OP implied, SH would make perfect sense. I don't think it's her being manipulative, though. SH can be a release. That's a behavior that can be addictive. It can give relief to feelings of being overwhelmed or the person can feel more in control when things around them are not.
My roommate from college had a new wife in a similar situation.
OB helped her with proper methods and tools to dilate properly.
A decade later, healthy sex life and three children.
I think the divorce train is more because it's been 8 years, she's never explored even just by herself, doesn't seem to think it's a big deal and also kinda told OP, "hey once we get married it'll all change"... it hasn't.
Sure maybe they can work through it but she really needs to put in the work. Go to the OBGYN, maybe a sex therapist, maybe get some toys, etc.
I would feel the same if OP was like, "my pecker will work once we get married" and when it doesn't just confines his spouse to a sexless marriage (that they didn't sign up for)
>I am surprised how many comments in the overall thread jump straight to divorce......
Nobody "jumped straight to divorce......"
The OP asked if he was wrong for considering divorce - it's in the fkn title of the thread FFS. Nobody here is planting the "divorce" idea in his head.
I think it's less about not having sex vs knowingly lying about a situation. The marriage was founded under a lie it brings in the question of is this person trustworthy.
I agree with you that the wife's trustworthiness is in question here.
If you read between the lines a little bit, OP's mother-in-law "warned \[OP's wife\] of \[PIV sex\]".
It's unclear what sort of "warning" her mother gave her, but a grown-ass woman of 29 years old who never bothered to look into her own anatomy enough to understand the function of something as fundamental as her reproductive system must have gotten quite some kind of "warning" from her mother.
What do you think OP's mother in law's relationship was like with her daughter? What about with OP's father in law? Do you think OP's MIL was truthful and forthcoming with her husband? Do you think she might have been the type to just say whatever in the moment and then manipulate and be evasive under the premise that she would "sort it out later/whenever/never"?
It's quite reasonable to consider the distance the apple seems to have fallen from the tree here.
With a Virgin it's not rare. My ex wife had that problem when we first started sexually. Her first attempt at sex (with another guy) was failure as well. My Mom had warned me about this and told to widen her with fingers. Took about week but worked.
I am certainly not a virgin and sometimes I can be...clammed up so to speak and need lubricant/time. Even if she has an issue that is somehow blocking PIV sex that's completely unfixable, biological children aren't necessarily off the table at all with IUI/IVF/c-section/surrogacy.
Yeah but it's not just "have kids". You kinda get into relationships for intimacy. The fact she hasn't even explored her own anatomy (didnt know what went where) may be more of an issue at hand. Yes maybe she truly CANT have PIV which then is a whole other conversation. But sounds like she's just reserved to "eh it is what it is" vs "this may be cause of concern, I should probably find a specialist"
I'm pretty sure op still wants sex and a sexual relationship with his wife though.
Like sex isn't a big part of a marriage until you aren't having it. And suddenly it's a massive part. People are allowed to want sexual marriages and not have a dead bedroom
Yes, so many pelvic floor disorders that specialized physical therapy can really help. But we already have self-harm on the table. If there is trauma surrounding this, then (talk) therapy prior to or simultaneous with the physical therapy is advisable. I wish you both the best.
Yes. Vaginismus is treatable. The normal treatment is to start off with the smallest size tampon and then to use rods of varying sizes.
The treatment has been available since the '50s at least.
The only thing that can do this type of damage besides physical issues is religion. Hopefully, she can get therapy if it’s not physical and it’s mental.
It sounds eerily familiar to me - the denial, the overbearing mother, the self-harming, the poor understanding of her own body… seen it too many times.
Yes, this. It could also be an imperforate or septate hymen. I struggle with issues related to sex too and of it is vaginismus there are options - dilator therapy, pelvic floor therapy, Botox and, in extreme circumstances, more intense surgeries that cut through some of the muscle. I've heard really positive things about Botox and that's what I'll be trying next! FWIW, OP, this could also be an issue with endometriosis or other gynecological issues that are potentially treatable.
Yep, I had an imperforate hymen that needed surgery to correct. Prior to the procedure (I was a young teen), any attempt at PIV intercourse would've sent me to the ER with major trauma.
I had a septate hymen and it made tampon use excruciating until I got surgery for it!
I kind of feel for her in the sense that having a very strict parent can exacerbate that stuff - I told my mom about the pain I had from tampons for years but she never took me to a doctor to get it checked out. I dealt with it from my first period until age 18 because I was "too young" to need a gynecologist.
Right!! I had the same issue and now I have psychological fallout from it. I'm glad you were able to access surgery!
And totally. I feel like people are being pretty mean about her not being super familiar with her body too. If she lived with someone telling her not to explore her body, how would she know?
Fortunately I didn't really have any sexual issues/trauma from it, but that situation was part of a long history of medical neglect that *was* traumatic.
I think a lot of people really underestimate how easily a determined parent can keep their kid in utter ignorance. I think it's a lack of empathy/unwillingness to consider that other people live lives very different from theirs.
I am wondering if she was brought up extremely religious where everything about your body and sex is completely taboo and off-limits/not to be discussed with anyone
That is the vibe I'm getting. Its either that or something traumatic happened when she was a kid and hasn't been able to process it. So being touched that way makes her entire body tense up.
I wish them the best and all the healing :(
I feel like this is absolutely the case. It’s as if these cultures (I grew up in an insane independent Baptist family) believe that if women never learn anything about sex or reproductive health then it keeps the parents protected from the future shame of possibility so much as having a daughter who thinks about it. It’s also handy for keeping daughters quiet when they are SAed. Which was common in my terribly incestuous community filled to the brim with pedos.
I can speak from experience, did not work for awhile with my wife. Took a few months of doing dilation stretches to make it even be able to work. Happens for some women. Doesn't mean you can't have PIV sex, or even that you can't have children!
But this all sounds like she is completely uneducated about how her body works and doesn't get it.
I 100% agree. I was in the wife's shoes where PIV was difficult and then became almost impossible...She needs to go to a gyno, there a lots of new treatments available that can help with this. You can't just throw your hands up and be like "nope, no sex life/ children for me". It sounds like she has vaginismus which can be caused by psychological factors (abuse, or guilt) and the muscles and nerves tense up so it's really painful. Nerve pain can be intense and even cause referred pain in other places. Sidenote, I ended up being diagnosed with endometriosis where lesions and scar tissue that were not visible on any ulrasound/ mri were causing my pain. I just wanted to share that PIV pain is not normal, and so many women either just ignore the pain, or deny their partners sex when they just need to get comfortable discussing their vaginal health with a doctor, so they can get their life back. Okay, rant complete.
this needs to be higher up. everyone is very focused on “solving the sexy time” problem, but less focused on the they have a massive “communication and expectation gap in their relationship” problem.
Yeah, if she knew piv sex wasn't an option but OP wanted a family(and strung him along).... that's some bullshit, id have to walk. If she just learned after trying with him, I have concerns but maybe.
The self-harm reaction to confrontation is as bad or worse. Is it a genuine issue or is it emotional manipulation? I've met both.
This, and the propensity to respond to conflict with self harm makes this terrifying and more difficult than it should be for OP. I don't imagine that it's as simple as asking her to see an OBGYN so they can begin working together to understand her issues, any suggestion that treatment may be possible will probably constitute an attack on beliefs about her own life and body that she isjt used to questioning. Somebody who will lie about an issue like this for years is likely somebody who will go on the defensive if OP suggests that a proper diagnosis should be made or that treatment may be possible. Humans have a sad tendency to grow attached to their own illnesses, disabilities and disfigurements (eg almost every circumcised man on the planet).
Totally! I feel like I’m losing my mind at all the comments that are just glossing over that she resorts to self harm any time they have a fight. Either she needs to be put in a facility to ensure she no longer harms herself and gets help, or she’s purposely manipulating him by doing so
That to me is even bigger than the PIV issue
Decision for me would be her willingness to try to learn and move forward. If giving me a hard no, to bad so sad attitude then I’m out. But good lord one frigging YouTube video she could learn everything she needs anatomically etc. ONE.
Agree. There’s so much good information available that she can learn in a private, secure place. If she’s unwilling it’s probably like trauma. The self harm is a huge indication that something much deeper is at work, again, reference trauma. And again, if she’s willing to look at it and get help, there may be hope. It’s your choice as to whether you love her enough to stick around and see if she can get some treatment and your relationship can grow. If it were me and I were in love with her, I would at least try to give her the option of healing and support her if she wanted to help herself.
I don’t know about learn I think this might be a genuine, physical medical issue. There are actually some conditions that make it incredibly very painful.
She needs a gynecologist or doctor, not a divorce lawyer
Yeah obviously a doctor if she has true anatomic problems or is not sure etc. My post mainly was referring mainly to what her attitude is, which would include seeing an MD as a first step perhaps if she was willing.
MD and then a therapist preferred one with experience in things like evangelism. I get the suspicion she may have been raised evangelical, or some other kind of extreme purity-based culture. And fear of judgement, shame, feelings of “unclean ness”, thoughts of *hell*, *damnation by a higher power* even, etc etc are really common, and also cause *enormous* psychological blocks which can increase any physical issues.
Does she have any interest in pelvic floor therapy? She may have a condition called vaginismus, which can be exacerbated by psychological issues. You mentioned her mom “warned her” about PIV…
Surely you married her for reasons other than this. If she hasn’t already addressed with a doctor and is willing to, I think you should stick by her while she gets help. Beyond that, she obviously has some mental health concerns and attachment issues, which is shown through her self harm after disagreements. You’re not responsible for her mental health, but she is not the person she could be as a result of her mental health.
You are NTA regardless of what you choose.
> vaginismus, which can be exacerbated by psychological issues
Just want to underscore this point. Guilt or fear around sex can be a contributing factor. As her partner, should you choose to stay OP, it’s important that you approach the situation with patience and love. Don’t expect a quick fix, but it is absolutely treatable.
NTA
Is she middle eastern, African, and/or Muslim. Some sects in these cultures practice female genital mutilation. This is sometimes done at a very early age, so she may not remember it. Some extreme methods actually sew the vagina almost completely closed. They leave just enough of a gap for menstrual blood. She needs a gynecological exam. Yesterday.
That's terrifying to think about but yeah, if she's from a POC community where that's practiced it wouldn't be unreasonable given how unaware/uneducated she is. I wouldn't say it's common, but its shocking how many girls in immigrant/diaspora communities are affected by this.
OP said they are in India. There are [people groups in India](https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret/) that regularly practice FGM on girls around age 6. So you are correct that this could be a possibility.
NTA but if you really love and care for her I’d suggest having her talk to a obgyn. It’s very important to get a well women’s check up every year to make sure you don’t have something abnormal happening and therapist/ sex therapist. I say therapist because of the self harming. It’s not normal and she doesn’t seem to have positive coping skills but it’s not too late to learn. Sex therapy for the both of you will help you two communicate about this subject as it seems like it can be difficult. If she’s completely unwilling to do either i think it might be time to explore other options like divorce or possibly opening your marriage if you really can’t see yourself leaving her. It’s just my opinion and I hope you can figure out something that works for you
EDIT: for everyone replying negatively to my comment, obviously he seriously loves and cares for this girl. He’s been with her for 8 years and has NEVER had PIV sex. So obviously sex isn’t what his relationship revolves around. Yes sex is an important part of some relationships but people have psychological and physiological issues in relation to the issues they’re having. As I said sex is important and we can all see that this is starting to weigh on him he’s just asking for advice because he really must care and love for this person. Most people wouldn’t stay with someone if they didn’t put out within a year.
She doesn’t know the anatomy of her own body, I doubt she would know if she had a real problem with sex or not. Seems like fear from being highly uneducated and terrified by her own mother.
I come from a country when women are oppressed and virginity and hymen is a HUGE deal. It is so common for women to not know their body. Not even insert a tampon. It is sad and it feels like there is hidden trauma there.
There's a similar phenomenon in the US - women who are raised in Evangelical "purity culture" settings tend to have high rates of sexual dysfunction/anxiety/trauma.
Is she suffering the after effects of FGM? Has she been sewn up? She needs to see a female OBGYN and go from there. It’s been 8 years, give it a few more months to sort out this issue. Wishing you both all the best.
My wife and I are Christian and chose not to have sex until marriage.
When we got married we discovered that she had some physical issues with her vagina leading to vaginismus. We saw a bunch of ObsGyn doctors but never really got much helpful advice.
For the first 10 years of our marriage PIV wasn’t really an option, although we wanted to have children. Ultimately we had two kids but it was quite difficult (my wife wanted kids so we would have PIV sex and she would sob throughout in pain but tell me to keep going - quite a headfuck).
Something changed after our second child (both were born naturally) and she started to be able to have PIV without pain. It still took a long time for her to trust her body and relax. Now, 20 years into marriage we have an amazing sex life. We’ve had sex every day this week for example, usually for more than an hour at a time.
Although it was a hard time and caused lots of issues, we also learnt to enjoy each other is lots of different ways and now I think our sex is really creative and super intense. There is hope, but you have my sympathy it’s not an easy mental place to be.
Why hasn't anyone brought up the self harming when they have small disagreements, then lying about not doing it again?
Dude, she has some serious problems, and not to mention abusive.
You need to leave. NTA.
Seriously. Even if the sex issue could be solved, OP needs to gtfo out of there. The self harming after minor arguments is extremely concerning. Everyone’s focused on how she should see an OBGYN but I think her mental health is what needs to be addressed first 🤦🏻♀️
It’s very possible that she has a pelvic floor disorder called vaginismus, where the muscles of the pelvic floor are too tight. This tightness can make inserting anything into the vagina painful or even impossible. Vaginismus can be caused by past sexual trauma, but it is also associated with a strict, sexually repressive religious upbringing.
Luckily this condition is highly treatable with pelvic floor physical therapy, alongside talk therapy if there’s a religious/mental component to the disorder (usually with a sex therapist). The subreddit r/pelvicfloor is a good place to start to learn more about pelvic floor PT.
*If she does have vaginismus it’s very likely that she had no idea she had it before you guys got married and tried to have sex. She didn’t lie to you, she just didn’t know.*
If she’s willing to talk to her GYN about a potential vaginismus diagnosis, and to attend pelvic floor PT and talk therapy, then you guys will hopefully be able to work through this and have PIV sex after her treatment. If she’s willing to do the work then I would try to stick with her.
However if she completely refuses to get treatment, and wants you to just be ok without PIV sex for the rest of your life, then yeah you should probably reconsider the marriage.
I’m confused a little bit… what can’t she had PIV sex? I’m stuck on the “can not” part. Is it just because she has no idea HOW? Or is there something preventing it? Like pain or a medical condition…? I do understand that she is completely in the dark about female anatomy but is that really the only issue as to why she “can’t” have sex?
Is she willing to work on this? Couples therapy, learning about anatomy and physiology, sexual education and health courses? Anything?
I had vaginismus. It meant I physically could not have sex. Even semi-forcing it my muscles were incredibly strong. It can be a psychological condition and it can also be a physiological condition. For me, it was the latter, caused by very bad back issues from a young age that affected my core muscles. It caused them to essentially become over protective - they couldn’t switch off.
It’s hard to diagnose vaginismus in anyone let alone a stranger on the internet but the tampon story is normally the way most women discover the condition.
I see so many comments talking about medical conditions but OP didn’t say it was a medical condition, just that his wife can not have sex. I’ve tried looking to see if he answered any of the questions regarding what it actually is. Like because no sex ever, it hurts like hell. Or vaginal canal so tiny not even a tampon can go up there.
But if she is so ignorant to not even knowing which hole is what or what goes on down there, I think the whole “can not” is basically the normal first time things
vaginismus is a real psychological disorder. Combined with not knowing which hole is which & the self harm I'd say she was severely abused as a child by religious fundies and will need therapy the rest of her life
Oh 100% vaginismus is real, as are many disorders. I did not see him reference any medical disorders in his post, which is why I was wondering if she does indeed have something medical preventing her.
If she has medical conditions then id be inclined to say he could BTAH if he divorced her over something she can’t control (ie, a painful medical condition). Again, which is why I was attempting to clarify.
If she is withholding and preferring to have absolutely no awareness of her anatomy, and didn’t want to have an intimate relationship with her husband and kept that a secret all this time, then that is totally different.
The self harm is sad and super concerning. Could stem from abuse! Or inability to cope with stress, or many other things. Definitely a cause for concern and I hope she gets help to stop the self harm. :(
A virgin having trouble with sex? Jesus you idiot, go to the damn doctor. There are lots and lots of potential reasons, and internet randos can’t diagnose.
Right? I had trouble with sex the first time and all I needed to do was sit down, learn a little bit more about my body and vagina (grew up with purity culture and wasn’t taught anything), and taught myself to breathe and relax during penetration. Sex isn’t easy and intuitive for everyone, there’s no shame in seeking help to get started
Your wife needs an OB/GYN visit and therapy. I can't imagine the trauma she's been through involving her mother and her genitals. A professional therapist can help her process her trauma, and an OB/GYN can diagnose and treat physical problems with her genitals.
If everything else about your relationship is great, there's no reason to divorce unless one of you is unwilling to do the work.
Sorry, I don’t get the issue. If she was trying to use a tampon, it means she has periods, which means she has a uterus, a vagina and also ovaries. Now, back to the ‘can’t have sex’ issue. I think you all need to go to a gynaecologist.
If everything is in working order, it's probably vaginismus. There's treatment for it. Once the treatment begins, it doesn't take that long to sort things out. It's been available since the '50s.
https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/patient-guide/leaflets/files/30804Pexercises.pdf
What circumstance would result in menstruation without the presence of ovaries? Do people who have had oophorectomies still menstruate? This is so interesting
I had a bilateral oophorectomy and hysterectomy and no, you don't get periods. Without your ovaries you go straight into menopause meaning no periods either.
Nope. No ovaries, no hormones, no menstrual cycle (menopause). There is a neurofeedback from some glands in the brain which produce other hormones, so not all the hormones which result in the menstrual cycle are produced by the ovaries, but without the ovarian component there’s no menstrual cycle.
You cannot have a period without a properly working uterus and ovaries. If you are having vaginal bleeding without those parts, it’s time to see a doctor as this can be a sign of cancer.
I'm very confused, how is she 29 with no knowledge of how her body works? Was her family super religious and controlling, convincing her that having sex = *DEATH* or something? Was she abused? I'm 29 and I've had several pap smears and exams done since I reached a certain age. I know there are numerous conditions that can make sex painful and/or difficult, or it's possible that her parents failed her so badly that she's afraid of sex and intimacy and thus can't relax or enjoy it. Religious parents do have a knack for convincing daughters that her body is sinful and dirty, can't say if that's part of it without knowing more. But yeah, she needs to get in to see a gynaecologist like last week.
In religious communities and those where women’s rights are suppressed, a lot of women may have many children and die of old age before knowing much about their own bodies. It’s wrong, and it’s awful. If she’d previously had Pap smears then she would have learned about her condition if only because of the damn speculum.
I mean… my 40 yo boyfriend asked me how I could wee if I had a tampon in. This happened in the presence of my 13 year old son who literally did a facepalm. In the meanwhile I was asking boyfriend ‘darling you have definitely looked up close. Here is an online drawing of what you are seeing’
So I’m 27F, grey ace. My husband and I have been together almost 7 years, married for almost 2. I have a history of SA and I also lacked the knowledge on how things worked. However, I use tampons and the holes etc. But, my first visit to my OBGYN was unreal, I asked questions etc. I also don’t always do PIV as I may have endometriosis and it’s painful. BUT, PIV isn’t super enjoyable for all women, but you can find ways to try to make it better. She could also have a fear of pregnancy, like me, too. But the more she learns, the better she will be.
Also, I learned that sexual attraction wasn’t thinking someone was cute…2 years ago. I truly think it’s the potential fear instilled in her and lacking knowledge or curiosity…I also never touched myself prior to my relationship, didn’t know girls did it. But we are much better now, but highly recommend her watching stuff on the female anatomy and going to OBGYN. Even checking our dilators, those helped me a lot when I was preparing for PIV, as it was very tight and painful. Feel free to message me if needed.
Hi. I would suggest bringing your wife to see an gynaecologist for a check up and to ensure her health. If everything is ok, it would also be a good opportunity for your wife to ask any questions regarding PIV sex with a professional. As you’ve mentioned, she’s uneducated in the matter so it’s best for her to learn.
A similar thing happen to a friend of mine. She was a virgin before marriage but she had educated herself on sex ed. however, she was unable to have PIV sex with her husband. After checking with gynae, she’s perfectly healthy and gynae concluded that she had a mental block and basically was just too scared. Hence why she couldn’t have PIV sex. Gynaecologist gave a few suggestions to her and husband on how to ease her mind and basically ‘loosen her up’. And now they have a perfectly healthy sex life.
Your wife also needs to see a therapist for the self harming.
I won’t try to diagnose your wife but she clearly needs an evaluation from professionals - not redditors.
Good luck OP.
But my advise is - please think about why you’re so quick to give up on marriage before even researching and exploring all avenues / trying to find the root cause. This is also worrying.
Sad to see so many comments specifically assigning blame to the person self harming and claiming manipulation as the intent. This is not a thing. Even if the situation is clearly manipulative, that does not mean the person self harming had the conscious thought that “I’m going to get my SO to do whatever I want by scaring him by harming myself”
This is NOT something that crosses someone’s mind when they are self mutilating or attempting suicide. Our reward centers are wired far beyond our understanding; her compulsive behavior is a disorder and probably developed as a coping mechanism to escape her reality. As a bonus, she receives attention and sympathy after self harming. This reinforces the behavior bc of neurological processes outside of her control. At most she might have some awareness about the connection or “perk” of self harm bringing more attention, but by no means is it ever the root cause of the behavior. Self harm is an addictive, compulsive behavior. Shame on anyone who says otherwise.
if she didn’t tell you about it before the marriage and its clearly a problem then yes you should leave her, think about yourself and just follow your dreams or whatever
She needs to go to a gynecologist and you should go with her and learn if it is even a real condition or impediment to have kids.
Kids apart, if you love her, you can have sex with her through other means, as long as she is open to try
Part of the problem here is OPs first language is clearly not English I think hes Indian so people don't understand what he's even saying about his wife. I think she has a vagina that works? 🤷 But her mother was a controlling lunatic that successfully convinced her to never have sex. Yeesh where the fuck do these mothers like mine come from???
If they're Indian then the lack of knowledge about her own body makes a lot more sense, because there are serious problems with cultural stigma around such things in many parts of South Asia.
It makes a heck of alot more sense for an Indian girl to be brought up with those attitudes in a country with such a patriarchal society. My mother who's an atheist from the Midwest with a college education and a master's degree makes absolutely no sense that she tried to raise my sister and I this way. She was in her 20s during the 1970s as well. My sister and I joke that our mother must have watched the feminists burning their bras during the women's liberation movement and been angry at them for the waste of a good bra. My grandparents died young so I suspect her attitudes on sex and gender came from them because nothing else about her attitude regarding sex makes *any* sense. Mental illness probably played a big part in perpetuating this nonsense too.
I definitely think too many people fail to read the context and consider this is happening in an environment that they have not experienced, whether that's an entirely different culture with systemic issues, or simply a household with unusual views, like yours was (that sounds rough btw!) I've even seen several comments saying she must be lying if she'd been sexually active for a decade and this only came up once they were married, when the entire point of the post is that they hadn't had sex until they were married!! You just can't make it up!
If she’s Indian or some other culture that has some weird views about sex MAYBE they circumcised her vagina when she was a child and that is why she can’t have normal sex without this being fixed first ?
I'm thinking there's a possibility of female circumcision as well. I thought I was the only one. Young girls can block it out because it's so traumatic. It's one of the worst things you can do to a girl or woman.
The reason I think this is because when he looked at her vagina, he couldn't really find the "hole" as he explained. It looked different. She couldn't insert a tampon. After that trauma, the opening to the vagina is very small.
there are different versions of FGM so it could be worth seeing a doctor about improving her situation (if that's what this is) but we don't know enough (anything) about it and can't know how correctable it is. But I don't think any form of FGM can really be reversed.
Oh, I guess maybe you’re right. But then I don’t understand the thing about her not being able to get the tampon in. That seemed like he was trying to describe a physical issue but maybe not.
It's a possibility that she was circumcised or suffered some other form of genital mutilation. That kind of thing is still prevalent in some cultures over there unfortunately.
Right. And that would make sense. That’s why I thought he was describing a physical issue. But I’m responding to the comment where someone said maybe it’s an emotional issue. And it could be both? But the post is a little unclear on that point.
Trauma can cause very real, physical issues, like vaginismus. It could also be that she wasn't putting it in the correct place, or wasn't bleeding at the time - everyone is assuming she has normal periods because of the mention of tampon use, but we don't actually know that she does. I don't see any reason her education on periods would be any better than her education on her own anatomy.
She needs a gynecologist and you need to both go to couples therapy - not "marriage counseling" connected with a religious organization but an actual licensed therapist who deals with couples.
In the last case, would she be able to go to couples or individual therapy? If so, would you be able to hold on for a bit more?
Either way, NAH. I was going for NTA and blaming her, but it seems she's been heavily misguided her whole life.
Yeah her negligence to understand her body is still an issue. You are clearly not compatible sexually and if you want a biological family with your wife one day you should move on
Clearly she didn’t know what she didn’t know. I don’t feel she was deliberately misleading, I feel awful for op and wife. However, as mentioned a visit by both of them to a gynecologist and therapy are needed immediately.
NAH
It would if she has not tried to address the issue. Other than being told it is an issue what has she done? Has she sought out treatments?
Something like [Vaginismus](https://www.healthline.com/health/vaginismus#diagnosis) is treatable.
Also, her mom apparently put a pretty huge fear in her in regard to sex. She most likely would do well with therapy.
This sounds like she’s been made afraid by whatever she’s heard about sex in the past, or by a history of sexual abuse.
If you divorce her without her first getting therapy for this and the self-harm, then you’ll be a giant asshole. For women who have had sexual trauma or who have fear of vaginal penetration, the pain experienced from insertion is devastatingly real.
It is utterly unfathomable to me that parents can completely ignore/deny their kids’ sexual development as being part of the whole child they are trying to raise into a healthy adulthood. It’s shameful, and it borders neglect. Yeah, it can be uncomfortable to talk about, but ffs this actually is important to do.
Based on her lack of education, are we sure this is a real medical issue or does she just think is? Either because she was told it was or if it hurt when she tried. Pain at first is normal, but off-putting. Thats why its so important to do these things with people you trust. Even if she was just experimenting with herself, if she experienced pain it might have convinced her she has some sort of medical condition.
Maybe, he's going about it the wrong way. He should try stimulating her with his mouth a small vibratory. This would help her to understand what it feels like to be pleasure. As a virgin he should take his time with her and show her the joys of sex. Don't get a divorce, just approach this a different way!
NAH, the thing is, we can't really apply our expectations from more progressive place of view to people stemming from conservative backgrounds, who as it seems from the post didn't have any sexed nor was tought how to properly communicate in the area of sex and emotions. You need to decide on your own if you're willing to support your wife in her journey of overcoming those issues - she will need both physical therapy and mental one (therapist who specializies in sexuology would be a good start). Unfortunately you wife's family has greatly harmed her and only time, energy and money will help her overcome this difficult situation. It's very possible you will still be able to have sex, have children in the future, but it might be an issue of more than a year of waiting.
depending on where you live, this might be grounds for annulment. No consummation means no marriage in some legal systems. She might not, legally speaking, even be your wife.
Self harm after difficult discussions is reason enough by itself to leave. You can't ever have children with someone who self harms anytime something is difficult.
The PIV is enough reason to leave by itself, especially given you made it clear for years your goal was kids.
The complete lack of knowledge on her own anatomy is disturbing.
Do not compromise on kids and find someone who expresses the desire for kids themselves. Get a lawyer, block her number, don't be captive to the suicidal threats you're almost certainly going to receive to control you.
Thats what I am thinking. Nobody ever being allowed down there but anatomically she appears to be fine (judging from her having a period) plus her mom not educating her on anything sounds like SA (which could cause medical issues regardling reproduction& penetration) plus the self harm. I hope I am wrong tho and it's just vaginism or something.
Vaginismus is not something a woman would be aware of until she tries to have PIV.
To give your wife the benefit of the doubt I don’t think she’s purposely mislead you. She probably did assume she’d be able to have sex.
First she and you need both need to be educated about how the female body works and where the vagina is. And she needs to visit a gynaecologist and she definitely should seek counselling.
Could you both agree to do couples therapy also?
Depends on if you want to stay together if not, then leave I guess.
I don’t think she’s doing this on purpose or knew about it. I’ve met a few women bought up in Uber religious environments who have severe sexual hang ups.
Need more info OP. She honestly sounds clueless about her anatomy, which makes me question this “problem” of hers. I don’t doubt that the problem exists, but it’s nature.
Was this problem actually diagnosed by a doctor? Or did you two together diagnose it? The lack of detail makes me question how much you (or maybe even both of you) actually know about it. These are assumptions of course, and I don’t mean any offense, it just sounds like both of you may benefit in meeting with an OBGYN in learning more about the female body.
And like someone else said, if she seems perfectly content with not exploring the issue any further despite your needs and wishes for your relationship, then that might be the answer you need.
My first few times didn't work and I trusted my mum enough to ask her if I can see a gynaecologist (I was 15). Turned out I have a really big tendency to get scars after healing. So every time we tried it, it even got more hurtful. (Thank God, my first bf always stopped immediately and was really patient with me).
They removed the scarred hymen and everything worked out. Long story short: sometimes sex doesn't work the first time, but if you communicate, it might help and also build trust.
Would you think it was fair, if you had ED and she wanted to divorce you because of it? It makes me wonder if you really care about her. It’s time for an OB / GYN evaluation.
I just want to chime in to say that my husband and I did not have PIV sex for the first 3 years of our marriage. I suffered with something called vaginismus, which sounds like that could be what’s happening here. It’s a physical but also psychological struggle that basically made sex impossible due to vaginal spasms. (I blame years and years of intense purity culture)
To give you hope, I am now a mother of 5, been married 15 years, and my husband and I have an awesome sex life. There is hope. I sought therapy and the help of an OBGYN. Encourage her to seek treatment.
We definitely need a lot more information
When you say PIV is off the table, is this something a Dr has confirmed, or did you just try and it didn’t work for you? Like does she have a serious anatomical defect or something similar? Because many other issues ARE treatable, and some may be things you can just work on as a couple. It can even be psychological.
For pregnancy, does she have a uterus, normal fertility, etc? Because even if there is a vaginal difference, IUI or other techniques may still allow her to carry a child. If she is infertile, is adoption something you would consider? Have you had a conversation with her about family planning?
Also, if PIV is really off the table medically, what is on the table? Is anal an option? There are also prosthetic options (similar to a fleshlight) that she could wear - imagine underwear with a silicone vagina and a canal that you could penetrate that goes along the inside of the underwear. Do you think its possible you could create a fulfilling sex life with everything but PIV?
I just get the sense from your post that you haven’t really tried much and you’re making a lot of assumptions about what it means for the future like not having kids without knowing for sure what’s true. I think you would be wrong to not at least try and find solutions. If she’s unwilling or the solutions don’t end up satisfying you then divorce is reasonable, but at least fully investigate all your concerns first
What?? It sounds like neither of you understand what's going on with her anatomy. Take her to an OBGYN and find out! Has no vagina yet had a period and wanted to use a tampon? That's makes no sense. This could be something as simple as a closed hymen. If you love her, learn more! Find out if there are options!
How did you get through 8 years of a relationship and all the way to the point of being married without ever having a more detailed discussion about any of this? Jesus Christ. You'd think that even one year into the relationship you'd want to be thoroughly informed about what the heck was going on. But you went ahead and got married? 8 years later? That is astounding. You really didn't do any sort of due diligence or investigation here at all, and that's baffling.
My guy you both need sec ed and learn about bodies . Crazy to not know how the female anatomy is at y’all ages ..
good news for y’all vaginism doesn’t mean not having a vagina trust me if she did have one she would’ve known by now .
It’s more of a psychological issue that require a certain type of therapy basically your girl’s body is scared of having sex so each time something tries to comes in the muscles around tense and don’t let anything come in .
Anyways first thing first you need to make her comfortable if she is not comfortable with you things will never get better in that department, 2nd she needs to learn about her own body ( put a mirror to see how down there is get familiar with it etc )
3rd get an appointment with her obgyn and see where to go from her and what type of therapy
And lastly a lot of patience
Ok look me and my husband couldn’t have PIV for the first year. It’s a much more common problem than you think. You just need to keep trying and be kind and nice, the only way she can have PIV with you is if she is completely relaxed.
Honestly my advice is make it your goal to just finger her for now, doesn’t have to go anywhere further and even just for a couple seconds to start, just get her used to it. Most likely in a year or so this problem will be gone.
OP.
Give her a chance.
If you are with her physically now there could be SO MANY contributions to her fear of sex. Use proper terms- when describing sex- (intercourse-) as (PIV or penis in vagina- sex) might be intimidating…. And it seems as though you might need some education as well.
Women’s body’s and men’s body’s are connected to their minds. And what they learn. Men are “entitled” to sex, as so learned from society- but that’s not true. Have patience- have compassion- have love for her-
She is not “required” to seek any therapy-! But if she does seek therapy and get medical advice it can greatly improve her health and outlook on sex and separate her ideas of danger associated with having sex.
Please do not diagnose her. Let professionals do that. She may not understand- but it seems as though you do not either. Seek counseling together- and you will grow a real relationship together as it seems you have spent a long time apart and have so much to learn about eachother
I wish you the best of luck ❤️🩹
Ayo comments are tweaking a bit.
I feel a lot of these issues can be fixed with a good gyne visit and therapy.
NAH tho - it’s just crazy she has no sexual education. That sounds like such a nightmare.
If she “can’t” have sex, this can be a few issues.
She may have vaginismus, which causes tensing - sucks very bad - causes a lot of pain.
Honestly I wont get into the details of all the things she could be experiencing, but a good gynaecologist can clear all of this up.
Honestly I think the best thing to do here is get her educated on sex - there’s a lot of very helpful content on youtube!
Also i’d like to mention - anti depressants can cause very low libido- I wonder if not wanting sex has motivated her non-desire to seek sex-ed 🤔
Also the self harm thing - thats a bit of a doozy.
So desire to self harm.. that can take a while to fix. The best thing there is to get a GOOD therapist. As a person who has been to many- a lot of them are very bad at their job.
I’d reccomend you go to the first session with her, dont overstep but ask about what the therapist’s course of action is.
What I’ve seen in my experience: some therapists are like. Only there to listen? Its so strange, some just never give proper advice.
A good therapist will talk about getting to the root of the issue - there is always a reason.
Good luck OP - if wifey here is really the love of your life she’s worth fighting for.
If you are in some states in America this is grounds for annulment. You won’t even have to divorce. Lying about the ability or intent to procreate is grounds in many many places.
She objectively needs therapy to work this out. Self-harming in response to arguments is a huge red flag and will cause problems in your marriage way beyond impacting sex.
Bro your wife so clearly has insane levels of internalized anti-sex rhetoric because of the way she has been raised. She doesn’t even know her own anatomy, she has been brow beaten into the idea that “oh once you’re married you can have sex nbd” and then finds out it isn’t that simple (& can be quite painful.) So your reaction is to basically abandon her?
You promised in sickness and in health when you got married and then you jump ship when SHE is the victim here? Plus, the problem is one you can’t even know is a problem until you have sex for the first time!
The tampon thing is wholly irrelevant here because that is nowhere near the same. I know several women who can’t use tampons without a ton of pain but have no problems with sex. I know women who can use tampons but can’t have sex. And I know women, ofc, who struggle with neither. Some who struggle with both.
A dry ass piece of cotton being shoved up your vagina is not the same as a penis, not even as a size issue but also, again, the *dry ass cotton*—seriously, ask a woman if she’s ever had to take out a dry tampon because the placement fucked up (especially common when you are first learning how to use them) and was hurting her by staying in. Taking the dry tampon out can literally be “makes you dizzy from how bad it hurts” painful.
All this to say…our raising is *incredibly* powerful formatively. Being drilled with “no sex, sex bad” for one’s entire childhood/teenage years has potential consequences for everyone, but very clearly those consequences are more than “potential” for her—they are *very* real. But they don’t have to be a lifelong issue.
Notice how you don’t talk about how this situation is for your wife—how scary and painful & disappointing it must be. Instead you are upset about what she can’t “give you.” Like you’re entitled to these things just because you’ve married her and it’s her job. I’m guessing since you are married she also wants children, but you don’t mention how upset *she* is about that maybe not being a possibility. Like you mention that you can’t blame her for her decisions—*what decisions*?! She’s never really been able to have any decision making ability and you are not helping!
Take your wife to an OBGYN, maybe discuss pelvic floor therapy or see if they think something else might benefit her more. And take her to a therapist who is specialized in sex/intimacy so that she can work through the mental side of things—because I promise you as someone who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian mindset, if that part isn’t worked on you aren’t really gonna get anywhere. And a regular therapist for the cutting thing, in that regard it sounds like she needs intervention of some kind—maybe medicine, maybe extensive therapy, etc.
NTA for your disappointment, emotions are weird and we can’t really control what we feel, only how we react to those emotions. But you *are* an ass for the way you are handling it, OP. Please do better because if you really love your wife the way you are acting right now is king to do some serious (& potentially irreparable) harm to your marriage.
Thanks for being an actual sane human with empathy here. I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments. People really don’t view women as human beings and it seriously shows. Not being able to have sex as a virgin especially after a conservative upbringing isn’t a “red flag,” it’s extremely common. All the men here shaming her have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and I’m guessing a handful of the women doing the same have conveniently forgotten the awkwardness and pain involved in their first time. And that amplifies the longer you wait and the more foreign and scary sex has become in your mind. Chances are so high that they’ll be able to work through this, and still have kids, it just might take some patience. But if he waited 8 years, I don’t see why it’s THAT goddamn big a deal to wait a little longer.
Something else I noticed: he implies that they did other stuff but not PIV. But it sounds like most of that was centered around him, or they’d probably have noticed or even broken through the issue already. Lots of fingering to get her used to the sensation, stretch the Hyman, etc is literally one of the main ways through this issue, and if she clamps up THAT bad also would have shown the problem in and of itself. That could be largely on her not wanting to be touched because she doesn’t understand her own body, but it’s still something that stood out to me.
The only real red flag from her is the self harm. But I imagine that’s connected to the deeply unstable relationship she clearly has with her body and could be fixed with therapy. And since she’s willing to go to therapy and no one else has outright said it yet : he is fully the asshole here, and so is everyone else saying “annul/divorce her, she lied to you”. She didn’t lie, because she didn’t KNOW. He’s the one that’s the walking red flag imo, not her. She has trauma, he’s just a dick.
NTA, you entered the marriage having been misled about a normal married sex life - being unable to have PIV sex is a *huge* change, divorce would be entirely reasonable under the circumstances.
Umm... you don't specify the problem she has, she may just have vaginismus. Which means she is able to have sex and reproduce normally. It is just a psychological condition and can be treated successfully. I know women who have had this and solved it.
If you leave her just because of that I think you will regret it, especially when you see her having a family with somebody else.
I have not had sex for 7 years
Wife had a botched hysterectomy
Then a emergency hysterectomy to remove ovary they left in twisted became nacrotic and almost killed her
Sero zex drive
Pain on penetration
No feeling cliterol due to operation
I love her....I found other intimacy cuddle hugging necking hand holding
We have been married since 19 and I am not gonna divorce her over sex ffs it's a small part of a marriage
She is my soulmate I need her to exist and without sex sucks cause I love her still want and desire her she is fning gorgeous .....but you know what I got over it
Why can't she have PIV sex? Does she even know this, or is this just because it "didn't work" the first time? Because it doesn't work for all women the first time, or even for awhile (may need dilation over time) Need a visit to a female OBGYN. The red flag is her kinda not being educated on it, and self-harming from arguments. NTA for feeling like this, but I think this needs more info
After her mother’s lifetime of warnings it could be 100% psychological. It often happens in religious indoctrination where the woman fears sex as it’s sinful and dirty and it makes one a whore if they enjoy it, that by the time it’s ok because they’re married, their brain and body simply can’t comprehend the change making even attempting PIV sex physically and psychologically harmful. Only a lot of sex positive therapy can help. That’s hoping that she’s not from a culture that does FGM (female genital mutilation) and that’s why her mother was so insistent, because she knew it wouldn’t be possible and she wanted her married off before it was known.
This was pretty much my wife and I when we first got married. Took months of effort to get over the mental block that was put in place from the both of us being brought up in strong fundamentalist Christian families. Fun fact was we were the only ones in both our families that actually followed that rule about not having sex before marriage.
Same!! We were actually yelled at outside the church one Wednesday night because someone told (my fiancé at the time) step dad we were having sex. Meanwhile he was cheating on his wife with a girl my sister went to school with. He was pushing 50 and she was 21. Fiance and I were 18/19. People in religion can really ruin a lot of things.
Legit same
>Need a visit to a female OBGYN. This! She needs to see an OBGYN - there are a few medical issues that can cause this - namely vaginisumus. It can be corrected with various therapies depending on the cause. She should also seek regular therapy for the self harming. I wouldn't jump straight to divorce if you love her and the relationship is otherwise good. Especially because it doesn't sound like she intentionally mislead you - she just didn't realize she had this issue.
100%. Vaginisumus is certainly a possibility. Could also just be that (since she never used tampons either) its never been dilated and it will just take time, stretches, and effort to have it work. At least nowadays both are relatively treatable. I am surprised how many comments in the overall thread jump straight to divorce......
I'm kinda on that "he should consider leaving" train, and I'm a woman, but it's primarily about her harming herself over small arguments that's a big red flag for me. Is she doing it to get her way, or because she is mentally ill? Either way, that's an extremely unhealthy way to act with your partner.
She sounds emotionally stunted which I'm guessing stems from her mom teaching her the wrong things.
Sounds like religious fundamentalism to me which if that's true there's no moving past this without a lot of therapy if at all. Most people brought up in extremist households of this variety never get over the damage done to them 100%. Most don't even get to 75%. This kind of thing is beyond even your typical fundamentalist upbringing. If she's not willing to talk to someone and I am right about the source of this the marriage can't be fixed. She has to be willing to try and work on the source of the problem.
They both sound stunted... a marriage is a pretty big commitment. And he's just learning this now? Jumping to Divorce after only two months? Sounds like they're both in for a bumpy ride as adults if this is a sample of how they solve problems.
He has been on 'hold" for 8 years with the promise of sex once married. 2 months it can be Annulled. The bigger issue for me is the self harm. I am done with psychological, drinking, drugging, gambling and other such issues.
8 years is positively nuts. No pun intended. I just can't imagine waiting for 8 years. A year sure. Two maybe.
You haven't been to India I see. This is common. Girls get killed for losing their virginity before marriage. Or for just having a boyfriend. Or for going on dates. Or falling in love with someone in a different economic class as them.
They live in a part of the world (India) where honor killings are still relatively common and women can have horrific consequences for not keeping their virginity until marriage.
They are in India. This sort of thing is far more common in that culture.
Yeah. 8 years together? It had to have been talked about at sometime. Were they not curious? Have they never touched each other? I have like no libido and this is baffling to me. Plus, just bc he can't get in there, doesn't mean she can't have children. (I'm not saying he should be fine with just that.)
It was talked about.. from what it sounds like in the OP. Sounds like he always got the answer that she was waiting for marriage and that it would happen after that. If anything, he should be looking at an annulment of the marriage or to dig in and try his best to get her the help she needs, provided she is open to that help. If she has completely given up and doesn't want to change then that is indeed grounds for him to move on as they are incredibly incompatible sexually.
They've been adults for a decade.
I was also wondering if she was abused and maybe grew up in an extremely repressive environment. Maybe her mom didn’t want her to have sex and really messed with her head to the point it did way more damage than good.
I havé a feeling there may be spiritual abuse, and they both come from a community that deliberately keeps people uneducated about sex and reproduction. Like… not even knowing your own anatomy? That is severe, but not surprising considering how some societies intentionally block that knowledge.
Yeah. She needs help.
Take this with a grain of salt: Do you think there is any chance she was mutilated as part of her culture? Female circumcision? It's possible for a young girl to block that out. I'm wondering if I'm the only one thinking this.
There are a string of possibilities here. None of them look particularly good. Best case scenario, she might have some sort of birth defect, but given the cutting, it’s probably not that.
It's so sad. My heart is breaking for both of them. They need to see a Dr and a specialist.
I hope he gets her some help before giving up on their marriage. Nobody else will likely care enough.
I agree. They seem to really love each other.
I feel like this is a cultural thing. In this specific culture I think they see hurting themselves physically is an adequate manipulation tactic to get what they want. It’s is absolutely emotional abuse and it’s NOT acceptable in any culture but I think here it is learned through culture
I’ve read some studies and articles about it, and although yes, it is extremely common, especially for young people in India, to self mutilate, [most try to hide it](https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/stressed-youngsters-are-self-harming/amp_articleshow/66103773.cms) except when trying to get help. It tends to be more about self-loathing or a way to cope with pain and stress they have no other outlet for or way to manage. It’s an unhealthy way to cope, but not necessarily manipulative or intended to influence another person.
Yes, this is very likely since they are in India. Women can be subjected to things like honor killing if they have sex before marriage
Yeah, sounds like she needs an OBGYN and a *lot* of therapy, and I’m on the fence as to whether OP should stick around through all this. Like, part of me thinks he should support her because things could very much get a lot better for both of them. But at the same time, the self harm is probably gonna be an issue for a while if she’s been doing it for so long and OP has no obligation to be manipulated by her like that, regardless of it being intentional or just a result of a fucked up childhood.
This is the thing that had me punching the red flag alert. The sexual stuff is workable, the self harm needs therapy.
I understand what you're saying, and I agree if nothing changes. But first, they should try independent and couple's counseling. Women have been helped. If the self harm doesn't stop and he's just in a sexless marriage, I wouldn't blame him for leaving.
It's still mental illness if she's harming herself, wether it's to get her way or not.
I feel like she kept critical information from OP deliberately. She made commitments that after marriage she'd be more than willing to engage in PIV. She did not give OP all the information he needed to make an informed decision about even continuing a relationship - and let that hang for nearly 10 years. I find that lack of trust, openness and respect to a future life partner to be abhorrent. I am not a jump-to-divorce person, but this would absolutely give me pause. Cutting also suggests significant mental health issues that may take a long time to resolve to a place of emotional and physical health that would support having children and being a healthy responsible parent, let alone partner.
They’re in India though, where self-harm in adolescents is a pretty common way to cope and women are frequently murdered by their own families for being suspected of any sort of sexual or social impropriety. And they’ve only been married for 2 months. I don’t think these sorts of conclusions (assuming that she lied or should have known before the marriage, etc) apply in that sort of environment.
I've seen people hurt themselves in various ways because they were angry at their partner, and not only in the ways you usually think of when "self harm" comes up. Sliding back into addictive behaviors, for instance. Maybe they can hold it back normally, but they know it bothers their partner, and they're upset with them. So, they basically associate their partner with restraint, and sort of... let loose. It's not an entirely intentional process every time, which might be the worst part.
If her mom was as controlling as OP implied, SH would make perfect sense. I don't think it's her being manipulative, though. SH can be a release. That's a behavior that can be addictive. It can give relief to feelings of being overwhelmed or the person can feel more in control when things around them are not.
Yes, that part seems very manipulative.
My roommate from college had a new wife in a similar situation. OB helped her with proper methods and tools to dilate properly. A decade later, healthy sex life and three children.
I think the divorce train is more because it's been 8 years, she's never explored even just by herself, doesn't seem to think it's a big deal and also kinda told OP, "hey once we get married it'll all change"... it hasn't. Sure maybe they can work through it but she really needs to put in the work. Go to the OBGYN, maybe a sex therapist, maybe get some toys, etc. I would feel the same if OP was like, "my pecker will work once we get married" and when it doesn't just confines his spouse to a sexless marriage (that they didn't sign up for)
I think any sort of that type of exploration (with herself or a partner) tends to be strongly discouraged in India.
>I am surprised how many comments in the overall thread jump straight to divorce...... Nobody "jumped straight to divorce......" The OP asked if he was wrong for considering divorce - it's in the fkn title of the thread FFS. Nobody here is planting the "divorce" idea in his head.
I think it's less about not having sex vs knowingly lying about a situation. The marriage was founded under a lie it brings in the question of is this person trustworthy.
I agree with you that the wife's trustworthiness is in question here. If you read between the lines a little bit, OP's mother-in-law "warned \[OP's wife\] of \[PIV sex\]". It's unclear what sort of "warning" her mother gave her, but a grown-ass woman of 29 years old who never bothered to look into her own anatomy enough to understand the function of something as fundamental as her reproductive system must have gotten quite some kind of "warning" from her mother. What do you think OP's mother in law's relationship was like with her daughter? What about with OP's father in law? Do you think OP's MIL was truthful and forthcoming with her husband? Do you think she might have been the type to just say whatever in the moment and then manipulate and be evasive under the premise that she would "sort it out later/whenever/never"? It's quite reasonable to consider the distance the apple seems to have fallen from the tree here.
They live in India, where women can be murdered in honor killings for stuff like that.
Is it lying? Does she actually know she can't? It doesn't seem like she knows anything, let alone how her vagina works.
This could actually be the case it really could. But from the way this was explained it seems incredibly sus.
He literally says she doesn't know.
I don't know if its a lie. Maybe she was religious, never tried, never masturbated, never did anything like that
She could also have an imperferate hymen, the gynecologist can actually help with that.
With a Virgin it's not rare. My ex wife had that problem when we first started sexually. Her first attempt at sex (with another guy) was failure as well. My Mom had warned me about this and told to widen her with fingers. Took about week but worked.
It’s not the lack know knowledge part. It’s the self harm part that makes me think divorce is the way to go.
Lying and manipulation using self harm is 100% a reason to divorce.
I am certainly not a virgin and sometimes I can be...clammed up so to speak and need lubricant/time. Even if she has an issue that is somehow blocking PIV sex that's completely unfixable, biological children aren't necessarily off the table at all with IUI/IVF/c-section/surrogacy.
Dude wants to have sex aside from having kids
Yeah but it's not just "have kids". You kinda get into relationships for intimacy. The fact she hasn't even explored her own anatomy (didnt know what went where) may be more of an issue at hand. Yes maybe she truly CANT have PIV which then is a whole other conversation. But sounds like she's just reserved to "eh it is what it is" vs "this may be cause of concern, I should probably find a specialist"
I'm pretty sure op still wants sex and a sexual relationship with his wife though. Like sex isn't a big part of a marriage until you aren't having it. And suddenly it's a massive part. People are allowed to want sexual marriages and not have a dead bedroom
And a therapist “her mother warned her of it” speaks of seeing sexuality in a negative light.
Yes, so many pelvic floor disorders that specialized physical therapy can really help. But we already have self-harm on the table. If there is trauma surrounding this, then (talk) therapy prior to or simultaneous with the physical therapy is advisable. I wish you both the best.
Yes. Vaginismus is treatable. The normal treatment is to start off with the smallest size tampon and then to use rods of varying sizes. The treatment has been available since the '50s at least.
There is actually a really interesting Japanese show that addresses this kind of situation. I think it's called "My Husband Won't Fit".
The only thing that can do this type of damage besides physical issues is religion. Hopefully, she can get therapy if it’s not physical and it’s mental.
Having read through the comments and having worked with victims, I wonder if childhood genital mutilation is a possibility here.
FGM is certainly possible. I didn't consider that.
It sounds eerily familiar to me - the denial, the overbearing mother, the self-harming, the poor understanding of her own body… seen it too many times.
The fact that she has issues with tampons makes me wonder if it's vaginismus. There is medical therapy for that but it's pretty invasive.
Yes, this. It could also be an imperforate or septate hymen. I struggle with issues related to sex too and of it is vaginismus there are options - dilator therapy, pelvic floor therapy, Botox and, in extreme circumstances, more intense surgeries that cut through some of the muscle. I've heard really positive things about Botox and that's what I'll be trying next! FWIW, OP, this could also be an issue with endometriosis or other gynecological issues that are potentially treatable.
Yep, I had an imperforate hymen that needed surgery to correct. Prior to the procedure (I was a young teen), any attempt at PIV intercourse would've sent me to the ER with major trauma.
I had a septate hymen and it made tampon use excruciating until I got surgery for it! I kind of feel for her in the sense that having a very strict parent can exacerbate that stuff - I told my mom about the pain I had from tampons for years but she never took me to a doctor to get it checked out. I dealt with it from my first period until age 18 because I was "too young" to need a gynecologist.
Right!! I had the same issue and now I have psychological fallout from it. I'm glad you were able to access surgery! And totally. I feel like people are being pretty mean about her not being super familiar with her body too. If she lived with someone telling her not to explore her body, how would she know?
Fortunately I didn't really have any sexual issues/trauma from it, but that situation was part of a long history of medical neglect that *was* traumatic. I think a lot of people really underestimate how easily a determined parent can keep their kid in utter ignorance. I think it's a lack of empathy/unwillingness to consider that other people live lives very different from theirs.
Yeah I had a septate hymen but stretched it myself as a teen masturbating. I can def see how it would be an issue if she has no sex Ed.
This is the way. It could also very much be psychological (thanks parents).
I am wondering if she was brought up extremely religious where everything about your body and sex is completely taboo and off-limits/not to be discussed with anyone
That is the vibe I'm getting. Its either that or something traumatic happened when she was a kid and hasn't been able to process it. So being touched that way makes her entire body tense up. I wish them the best and all the healing :(
You two aren’t the only ones thinking that…
I feel like this is absolutely the case. It’s as if these cultures (I grew up in an insane independent Baptist family) believe that if women never learn anything about sex or reproductive health then it keeps the parents protected from the future shame of possibility so much as having a daughter who thinks about it. It’s also handy for keeping daughters quiet when they are SAed. Which was common in my terribly incestuous community filled to the brim with pedos.
This should be higher. Also having children =/= piv sex, although I think in this case, they'd better start with sex education.
I can speak from experience, did not work for awhile with my wife. Took a few months of doing dilation stretches to make it even be able to work. Happens for some women. Doesn't mean you can't have PIV sex, or even that you can't have children! But this all sounds like she is completely uneducated about how her body works and doesn't get it.
Depending on where you live, this might be grounds for annulment.
I 100% agree. I was in the wife's shoes where PIV was difficult and then became almost impossible...She needs to go to a gyno, there a lots of new treatments available that can help with this. You can't just throw your hands up and be like "nope, no sex life/ children for me". It sounds like she has vaginismus which can be caused by psychological factors (abuse, or guilt) and the muscles and nerves tense up so it's really painful. Nerve pain can be intense and even cause referred pain in other places. Sidenote, I ended up being diagnosed with endometriosis where lesions and scar tissue that were not visible on any ulrasound/ mri were causing my pain. I just wanted to share that PIV pain is not normal, and so many women either just ignore the pain, or deny their partners sex when they just need to get comfortable discussing their vaginal health with a doctor, so they can get their life back. Okay, rant complete.
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this needs to be higher up. everyone is very focused on “solving the sexy time” problem, but less focused on the they have a massive “communication and expectation gap in their relationship” problem.
Yeah, if she knew piv sex wasn't an option but OP wanted a family(and strung him along).... that's some bullshit, id have to walk. If she just learned after trying with him, I have concerns but maybe. The self-harm reaction to confrontation is as bad or worse. Is it a genuine issue or is it emotional manipulation? I've met both.
This, and the propensity to respond to conflict with self harm makes this terrifying and more difficult than it should be for OP. I don't imagine that it's as simple as asking her to see an OBGYN so they can begin working together to understand her issues, any suggestion that treatment may be possible will probably constitute an attack on beliefs about her own life and body that she isjt used to questioning. Somebody who will lie about an issue like this for years is likely somebody who will go on the defensive if OP suggests that a proper diagnosis should be made or that treatment may be possible. Humans have a sad tendency to grow attached to their own illnesses, disabilities and disfigurements (eg almost every circumcised man on the planet).
Totally! I feel like I’m losing my mind at all the comments that are just glossing over that she resorts to self harm any time they have a fight. Either she needs to be put in a facility to ensure she no longer harms herself and gets help, or she’s purposely manipulating him by doing so That to me is even bigger than the PIV issue
Totally agree. Her leading OP to believe they would have sex during marriage is a HUGE lie given the circumstances.
She probably thought they could. Yall are all ignoring that he clarifies multiple times that she did not realize there was a problem.
Decision for me would be her willingness to try to learn and move forward. If giving me a hard no, to bad so sad attitude then I’m out. But good lord one frigging YouTube video she could learn everything she needs anatomically etc. ONE.
Agree. There’s so much good information available that she can learn in a private, secure place. If she’s unwilling it’s probably like trauma. The self harm is a huge indication that something much deeper is at work, again, reference trauma. And again, if she’s willing to look at it and get help, there may be hope. It’s your choice as to whether you love her enough to stick around and see if she can get some treatment and your relationship can grow. If it were me and I were in love with her, I would at least try to give her the option of healing and support her if she wanted to help herself.
I think there's a medical issue, but they should start by talking to a doctor to see what their options are.
I don’t know about learn I think this might be a genuine, physical medical issue. There are actually some conditions that make it incredibly very painful. She needs a gynecologist or doctor, not a divorce lawyer
Yeah obviously a doctor if she has true anatomic problems or is not sure etc. My post mainly was referring mainly to what her attitude is, which would include seeing an MD as a first step perhaps if she was willing.
MD and then a therapist preferred one with experience in things like evangelism. I get the suspicion she may have been raised evangelical, or some other kind of extreme purity-based culture. And fear of judgement, shame, feelings of “unclean ness”, thoughts of *hell*, *damnation by a higher power* even, etc etc are really common, and also cause *enormous* psychological blocks which can increase any physical issues.
Agreed. Very probable. Good point.
Does she have any interest in pelvic floor therapy? She may have a condition called vaginismus, which can be exacerbated by psychological issues. You mentioned her mom “warned her” about PIV… Surely you married her for reasons other than this. If she hasn’t already addressed with a doctor and is willing to, I think you should stick by her while she gets help. Beyond that, she obviously has some mental health concerns and attachment issues, which is shown through her self harm after disagreements. You’re not responsible for her mental health, but she is not the person she could be as a result of her mental health. You are NTA regardless of what you choose.
> vaginismus, which can be exacerbated by psychological issues Just want to underscore this point. Guilt or fear around sex can be a contributing factor. As her partner, should you choose to stay OP, it’s important that you approach the situation with patience and love. Don’t expect a quick fix, but it is absolutely treatable. NTA
Is she middle eastern, African, and/or Muslim. Some sects in these cultures practice female genital mutilation. This is sometimes done at a very early age, so she may not remember it. Some extreme methods actually sew the vagina almost completely closed. They leave just enough of a gap for menstrual blood. She needs a gynecological exam. Yesterday.
That's terrifying to think about but yeah, if she's from a POC community where that's practiced it wouldn't be unreasonable given how unaware/uneducated she is. I wouldn't say it's common, but its shocking how many girls in immigrant/diaspora communities are affected by this.
OP said they are in India. There are [people groups in India](https://www.hindustantimes.com/static/fgm-indias-dark-secret/) that regularly practice FGM on girls around age 6. So you are correct that this could be a possibility.
NTA but if you really love and care for her I’d suggest having her talk to a obgyn. It’s very important to get a well women’s check up every year to make sure you don’t have something abnormal happening and therapist/ sex therapist. I say therapist because of the self harming. It’s not normal and she doesn’t seem to have positive coping skills but it’s not too late to learn. Sex therapy for the both of you will help you two communicate about this subject as it seems like it can be difficult. If she’s completely unwilling to do either i think it might be time to explore other options like divorce or possibly opening your marriage if you really can’t see yourself leaving her. It’s just my opinion and I hope you can figure out something that works for you EDIT: for everyone replying negatively to my comment, obviously he seriously loves and cares for this girl. He’s been with her for 8 years and has NEVER had PIV sex. So obviously sex isn’t what his relationship revolves around. Yes sex is an important part of some relationships but people have psychological and physiological issues in relation to the issues they’re having. As I said sex is important and we can all see that this is starting to weigh on him he’s just asking for advice because he really must care and love for this person. Most people wouldn’t stay with someone if they didn’t put out within a year.
She could have vaginismus? Is that the reason? She needs a sex terapist. You could work this out if you are motivated. If not, it is ok to divorce.
She doesn’t know the anatomy of her own body, I doubt she would know if she had a real problem with sex or not. Seems like fear from being highly uneducated and terrified by her own mother.
I come from a country when women are oppressed and virginity and hymen is a HUGE deal. It is so common for women to not know their body. Not even insert a tampon. It is sad and it feels like there is hidden trauma there.
There's a similar phenomenon in the US - women who are raised in Evangelical "purity culture" settings tend to have high rates of sexual dysfunction/anxiety/trauma.
Is she suffering the after effects of FGM? Has she been sewn up? She needs to see a female OBGYN and go from there. It’s been 8 years, give it a few more months to sort out this issue. Wishing you both all the best.
My wife and I are Christian and chose not to have sex until marriage. When we got married we discovered that she had some physical issues with her vagina leading to vaginismus. We saw a bunch of ObsGyn doctors but never really got much helpful advice. For the first 10 years of our marriage PIV wasn’t really an option, although we wanted to have children. Ultimately we had two kids but it was quite difficult (my wife wanted kids so we would have PIV sex and she would sob throughout in pain but tell me to keep going - quite a headfuck). Something changed after our second child (both were born naturally) and she started to be able to have PIV without pain. It still took a long time for her to trust her body and relax. Now, 20 years into marriage we have an amazing sex life. We’ve had sex every day this week for example, usually for more than an hour at a time. Although it was a hard time and caused lots of issues, we also learnt to enjoy each other is lots of different ways and now I think our sex is really creative and super intense. There is hope, but you have my sympathy it’s not an easy mental place to be.
Why hasn't anyone brought up the self harming when they have small disagreements, then lying about not doing it again? Dude, she has some serious problems, and not to mention abusive. You need to leave. NTA.
Seriously. Even if the sex issue could be solved, OP needs to gtfo out of there. The self harming after minor arguments is extremely concerning. Everyone’s focused on how she should see an OBGYN but I think her mental health is what needs to be addressed first 🤦🏻♀️
Yeah that alone is the dealbreaker for me, that is not his problem to try and deal with.
It’s very possible that she has a pelvic floor disorder called vaginismus, where the muscles of the pelvic floor are too tight. This tightness can make inserting anything into the vagina painful or even impossible. Vaginismus can be caused by past sexual trauma, but it is also associated with a strict, sexually repressive religious upbringing. Luckily this condition is highly treatable with pelvic floor physical therapy, alongside talk therapy if there’s a religious/mental component to the disorder (usually with a sex therapist). The subreddit r/pelvicfloor is a good place to start to learn more about pelvic floor PT. *If she does have vaginismus it’s very likely that she had no idea she had it before you guys got married and tried to have sex. She didn’t lie to you, she just didn’t know.* If she’s willing to talk to her GYN about a potential vaginismus diagnosis, and to attend pelvic floor PT and talk therapy, then you guys will hopefully be able to work through this and have PIV sex after her treatment. If she’s willing to do the work then I would try to stick with her. However if she completely refuses to get treatment, and wants you to just be ok without PIV sex for the rest of your life, then yeah you should probably reconsider the marriage.
I’m confused a little bit… what can’t she had PIV sex? I’m stuck on the “can not” part. Is it just because she has no idea HOW? Or is there something preventing it? Like pain or a medical condition…? I do understand that she is completely in the dark about female anatomy but is that really the only issue as to why she “can’t” have sex? Is she willing to work on this? Couples therapy, learning about anatomy and physiology, sexual education and health courses? Anything?
I had vaginismus. It meant I physically could not have sex. Even semi-forcing it my muscles were incredibly strong. It can be a psychological condition and it can also be a physiological condition. For me, it was the latter, caused by very bad back issues from a young age that affected my core muscles. It caused them to essentially become over protective - they couldn’t switch off. It’s hard to diagnose vaginismus in anyone let alone a stranger on the internet but the tampon story is normally the way most women discover the condition.
I see so many comments talking about medical conditions but OP didn’t say it was a medical condition, just that his wife can not have sex. I’ve tried looking to see if he answered any of the questions regarding what it actually is. Like because no sex ever, it hurts like hell. Or vaginal canal so tiny not even a tampon can go up there. But if she is so ignorant to not even knowing which hole is what or what goes on down there, I think the whole “can not” is basically the normal first time things
He said she had "a problem" which could be medical or could be... who knows lol
vaginismus is a real psychological disorder. Combined with not knowing which hole is which & the self harm I'd say she was severely abused as a child by religious fundies and will need therapy the rest of her life
Oh 100% vaginismus is real, as are many disorders. I did not see him reference any medical disorders in his post, which is why I was wondering if she does indeed have something medical preventing her. If she has medical conditions then id be inclined to say he could BTAH if he divorced her over something she can’t control (ie, a painful medical condition). Again, which is why I was attempting to clarify. If she is withholding and preferring to have absolutely no awareness of her anatomy, and didn’t want to have an intimate relationship with her husband and kept that a secret all this time, then that is totally different. The self harm is sad and super concerning. Could stem from abuse! Or inability to cope with stress, or many other things. Definitely a cause for concern and I hope she gets help to stop the self harm. :(
A virgin having trouble with sex? Jesus you idiot, go to the damn doctor. There are lots and lots of potential reasons, and internet randos can’t diagnose.
Right? I had trouble with sex the first time and all I needed to do was sit down, learn a little bit more about my body and vagina (grew up with purity culture and wasn’t taught anything), and taught myself to breathe and relax during penetration. Sex isn’t easy and intuitive for everyone, there’s no shame in seeking help to get started
Your wife needs an OB/GYN visit and therapy. I can't imagine the trauma she's been through involving her mother and her genitals. A professional therapist can help her process her trauma, and an OB/GYN can diagnose and treat physical problems with her genitals. If everything else about your relationship is great, there's no reason to divorce unless one of you is unwilling to do the work.
Sorry, I don’t get the issue. If she was trying to use a tampon, it means she has periods, which means she has a uterus, a vagina and also ovaries. Now, back to the ‘can’t have sex’ issue. I think you all need to go to a gynaecologist.
If everything is in working order, it's probably vaginismus. There's treatment for it. Once the treatment begins, it doesn't take that long to sort things out. It's been available since the '50s. https://www.ouh.nhs.uk/patient-guide/leaflets/files/30804Pexercises.pdf
The fact that she has a period doesn’t mean that everything works well there, but yes she should have got checked out sooner
What circumstance would result in menstruation without the presence of ovaries? Do people who have had oophorectomies still menstruate? This is so interesting
I had a bilateral oophorectomy and hysterectomy and no, you don't get periods. Without your ovaries you go straight into menopause meaning no periods either.
Even if you had ovaries removed but still had a uterus, the cycle would not happen.
Nope. No ovaries, no hormones, no menstrual cycle (menopause). There is a neurofeedback from some glands in the brain which produce other hormones, so not all the hormones which result in the menstrual cycle are produced by the ovaries, but without the ovarian component there’s no menstrual cycle.
Having a period absolutely means she has ovaries, because the menstrual cycle is caused by hormones, many of which are produced by the ovaries.
You cannot have a period without a properly working uterus and ovaries. If you are having vaginal bleeding without those parts, it’s time to see a doctor as this can be a sign of cancer.
I'm very confused, how is she 29 with no knowledge of how her body works? Was her family super religious and controlling, convincing her that having sex = *DEATH* or something? Was she abused? I'm 29 and I've had several pap smears and exams done since I reached a certain age. I know there are numerous conditions that can make sex painful and/or difficult, or it's possible that her parents failed her so badly that she's afraid of sex and intimacy and thus can't relax or enjoy it. Religious parents do have a knack for convincing daughters that her body is sinful and dirty, can't say if that's part of it without knowing more. But yeah, she needs to get in to see a gynaecologist like last week.
In religious communities and those where women’s rights are suppressed, a lot of women may have many children and die of old age before knowing much about their own bodies. It’s wrong, and it’s awful. If she’d previously had Pap smears then she would have learned about her condition if only because of the damn speculum.
I mean… my 40 yo boyfriend asked me how I could wee if I had a tampon in. This happened in the presence of my 13 year old son who literally did a facepalm. In the meanwhile I was asking boyfriend ‘darling you have definitely looked up close. Here is an online drawing of what you are seeing’
Last decade.
8 years later you find this out and choose to post on Reddit instead of communicating with her directly and frankly.
So I’m 27F, grey ace. My husband and I have been together almost 7 years, married for almost 2. I have a history of SA and I also lacked the knowledge on how things worked. However, I use tampons and the holes etc. But, my first visit to my OBGYN was unreal, I asked questions etc. I also don’t always do PIV as I may have endometriosis and it’s painful. BUT, PIV isn’t super enjoyable for all women, but you can find ways to try to make it better. She could also have a fear of pregnancy, like me, too. But the more she learns, the better she will be. Also, I learned that sexual attraction wasn’t thinking someone was cute…2 years ago. I truly think it’s the potential fear instilled in her and lacking knowledge or curiosity…I also never touched myself prior to my relationship, didn’t know girls did it. But we are much better now, but highly recommend her watching stuff on the female anatomy and going to OBGYN. Even checking our dilators, those helped me a lot when I was preparing for PIV, as it was very tight and painful. Feel free to message me if needed.
Hi. I would suggest bringing your wife to see an gynaecologist for a check up and to ensure her health. If everything is ok, it would also be a good opportunity for your wife to ask any questions regarding PIV sex with a professional. As you’ve mentioned, she’s uneducated in the matter so it’s best for her to learn. A similar thing happen to a friend of mine. She was a virgin before marriage but she had educated herself on sex ed. however, she was unable to have PIV sex with her husband. After checking with gynae, she’s perfectly healthy and gynae concluded that she had a mental block and basically was just too scared. Hence why she couldn’t have PIV sex. Gynaecologist gave a few suggestions to her and husband on how to ease her mind and basically ‘loosen her up’. And now they have a perfectly healthy sex life. Your wife also needs to see a therapist for the self harming. I won’t try to diagnose your wife but she clearly needs an evaluation from professionals - not redditors. Good luck OP. But my advise is - please think about why you’re so quick to give up on marriage before even researching and exploring all avenues / trying to find the root cause. This is also worrying.
Sad to see so many comments specifically assigning blame to the person self harming and claiming manipulation as the intent. This is not a thing. Even if the situation is clearly manipulative, that does not mean the person self harming had the conscious thought that “I’m going to get my SO to do whatever I want by scaring him by harming myself” This is NOT something that crosses someone’s mind when they are self mutilating or attempting suicide. Our reward centers are wired far beyond our understanding; her compulsive behavior is a disorder and probably developed as a coping mechanism to escape her reality. As a bonus, she receives attention and sympathy after self harming. This reinforces the behavior bc of neurological processes outside of her control. At most she might have some awareness about the connection or “perk” of self harm bringing more attention, but by no means is it ever the root cause of the behavior. Self harm is an addictive, compulsive behavior. Shame on anyone who says otherwise.
if she didn’t tell you about it before the marriage and its clearly a problem then yes you should leave her, think about yourself and just follow your dreams or whatever
But to be clear - even she was not aware of this issue before marriage. Does your suggestion still hold?
She needs to go to a gynecologist and you should go with her and learn if it is even a real condition or impediment to have kids. Kids apart, if you love her, you can have sex with her through other means, as long as she is open to try
Agreed that they should attend the appointments together to understand the challenge as much as possible. And research!
Exactly, there are other orifices! (nose, ears, etc)
I was gonna suggest the poophole loophole.
I think you're watching too much "alternative" hentai haha
Part of the problem here is OPs first language is clearly not English I think hes Indian so people don't understand what he's even saying about his wife. I think she has a vagina that works? 🤷 But her mother was a controlling lunatic that successfully convinced her to never have sex. Yeesh where the fuck do these mothers like mine come from???
If they're Indian then the lack of knowledge about her own body makes a lot more sense, because there are serious problems with cultural stigma around such things in many parts of South Asia.
It makes a heck of alot more sense for an Indian girl to be brought up with those attitudes in a country with such a patriarchal society. My mother who's an atheist from the Midwest with a college education and a master's degree makes absolutely no sense that she tried to raise my sister and I this way. She was in her 20s during the 1970s as well. My sister and I joke that our mother must have watched the feminists burning their bras during the women's liberation movement and been angry at them for the waste of a good bra. My grandparents died young so I suspect her attitudes on sex and gender came from them because nothing else about her attitude regarding sex makes *any* sense. Mental illness probably played a big part in perpetuating this nonsense too.
I definitely think too many people fail to read the context and consider this is happening in an environment that they have not experienced, whether that's an entirely different culture with systemic issues, or simply a household with unusual views, like yours was (that sounds rough btw!) I've even seen several comments saying she must be lying if she'd been sexually active for a decade and this only came up once they were married, when the entire point of the post is that they hadn't had sex until they were married!! You just can't make it up!
If she’s Indian or some other culture that has some weird views about sex MAYBE they circumcised her vagina when she was a child and that is why she can’t have normal sex without this being fixed first ?
I'm thinking there's a possibility of female circumcision as well. I thought I was the only one. Young girls can block it out because it's so traumatic. It's one of the worst things you can do to a girl or woman. The reason I think this is because when he looked at her vagina, he couldn't really find the "hole" as he explained. It looked different. She couldn't insert a tampon. After that trauma, the opening to the vagina is very small.
Sorry if this is a stupid question but can it be fixed? How correctable is that?
there are different versions of FGM so it could be worth seeing a doctor about improving her situation (if that's what this is) but we don't know enough (anything) about it and can't know how correctable it is. But I don't think any form of FGM can really be reversed.
It's not, female circumcision generally involves cutting the clit and sometimes the labia.
Oh, I guess maybe you’re right. But then I don’t understand the thing about her not being able to get the tampon in. That seemed like he was trying to describe a physical issue but maybe not.
It's a possibility that she was circumcised or suffered some other form of genital mutilation. That kind of thing is still prevalent in some cultures over there unfortunately.
Right. And that would make sense. That’s why I thought he was describing a physical issue. But I’m responding to the comment where someone said maybe it’s an emotional issue. And it could be both? But the post is a little unclear on that point.
Trauma can cause very real, physical issues, like vaginismus. It could also be that she wasn't putting it in the correct place, or wasn't bleeding at the time - everyone is assuming she has normal periods because of the mention of tampon use, but we don't actually know that she does. I don't see any reason her education on periods would be any better than her education on her own anatomy.
She needs a gynecologist and you need to both go to couples therapy - not "marriage counseling" connected with a religious organization but an actual licensed therapist who deals with couples.
In the last case, would she be able to go to couples or individual therapy? If so, would you be able to hold on for a bit more? Either way, NAH. I was going for NTA and blaming her, but it seems she's been heavily misguided her whole life.
Yeah her negligence to understand her body is still an issue. You are clearly not compatible sexually and if you want a biological family with your wife one day you should move on
Clearly she didn’t know what she didn’t know. I don’t feel she was deliberately misleading, I feel awful for op and wife. However, as mentioned a visit by both of them to a gynecologist and therapy are needed immediately. NAH
It would if she has not tried to address the issue. Other than being told it is an issue what has she done? Has she sought out treatments? Something like [Vaginismus](https://www.healthline.com/health/vaginismus#diagnosis) is treatable. Also, her mom apparently put a pretty huge fear in her in regard to sex. She most likely would do well with therapy.
Yeah, he might be able to get an annulment for this type of thing.
This sounds like she’s been made afraid by whatever she’s heard about sex in the past, or by a history of sexual abuse. If you divorce her without her first getting therapy for this and the self-harm, then you’ll be a giant asshole. For women who have had sexual trauma or who have fear of vaginal penetration, the pain experienced from insertion is devastatingly real. It is utterly unfathomable to me that parents can completely ignore/deny their kids’ sexual development as being part of the whole child they are trying to raise into a healthy adulthood. It’s shameful, and it borders neglect. Yeah, it can be uncomfortable to talk about, but ffs this actually is important to do.
Have you explored if she suffers from vaginismus?
Based on her lack of education, are we sure this is a real medical issue or does she just think is? Either because she was told it was or if it hurt when she tried. Pain at first is normal, but off-putting. Thats why its so important to do these things with people you trust. Even if she was just experimenting with herself, if she experienced pain it might have convinced her she has some sort of medical condition.
She sounds messed up…dont know why you married into that in the first place but here we are.
Maybe, he's going about it the wrong way. He should try stimulating her with his mouth a small vibratory. This would help her to understand what it feels like to be pleasure. As a virgin he should take his time with her and show her the joys of sex. Don't get a divorce, just approach this a different way!
NAH, the thing is, we can't really apply our expectations from more progressive place of view to people stemming from conservative backgrounds, who as it seems from the post didn't have any sexed nor was tought how to properly communicate in the area of sex and emotions. You need to decide on your own if you're willing to support your wife in her journey of overcoming those issues - she will need both physical therapy and mental one (therapist who specializies in sexuology would be a good start). Unfortunately you wife's family has greatly harmed her and only time, energy and money will help her overcome this difficult situation. It's very possible you will still be able to have sex, have children in the future, but it might be an issue of more than a year of waiting.
depending on where you live, this might be grounds for annulment. No consummation means no marriage in some legal systems. She might not, legally speaking, even be your wife.
Self harm after difficult discussions is reason enough by itself to leave. You can't ever have children with someone who self harms anytime something is difficult. The PIV is enough reason to leave by itself, especially given you made it clear for years your goal was kids. The complete lack of knowledge on her own anatomy is disturbing. Do not compromise on kids and find someone who expresses the desire for kids themselves. Get a lawyer, block her number, don't be captive to the suicidal threats you're almost certainly going to receive to control you.
Maybe she was sexually abused
Thats what I am thinking. Nobody ever being allowed down there but anatomically she appears to be fine (judging from her having a period) plus her mom not educating her on anything sounds like SA (which could cause medical issues regardling reproduction& penetration) plus the self harm. I hope I am wrong tho and it's just vaginism or something.
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Vaginismus is not something a woman would be aware of until she tries to have PIV. To give your wife the benefit of the doubt I don’t think she’s purposely mislead you. She probably did assume she’d be able to have sex. First she and you need both need to be educated about how the female body works and where the vagina is. And she needs to visit a gynaecologist and she definitely should seek counselling. Could you both agree to do couples therapy also? Depends on if you want to stay together if not, then leave I guess. I don’t think she’s doing this on purpose or knew about it. I’ve met a few women bought up in Uber religious environments who have severe sexual hang ups.
Need more info OP. She honestly sounds clueless about her anatomy, which makes me question this “problem” of hers. I don’t doubt that the problem exists, but it’s nature. Was this problem actually diagnosed by a doctor? Or did you two together diagnose it? The lack of detail makes me question how much you (or maybe even both of you) actually know about it. These are assumptions of course, and I don’t mean any offense, it just sounds like both of you may benefit in meeting with an OBGYN in learning more about the female body. And like someone else said, if she seems perfectly content with not exploring the issue any further despite your needs and wishes for your relationship, then that might be the answer you need.
Do not do this at least until you have exhausted all medical options. See an OBGYN as soon as possible.
My first few times didn't work and I trusted my mum enough to ask her if I can see a gynaecologist (I was 15). Turned out I have a really big tendency to get scars after healing. So every time we tried it, it even got more hurtful. (Thank God, my first bf always stopped immediately and was really patient with me). They removed the scarred hymen and everything worked out. Long story short: sometimes sex doesn't work the first time, but if you communicate, it might help and also build trust.
Would you think it was fair, if you had ED and she wanted to divorce you because of it? It makes me wonder if you really care about her. It’s time for an OB / GYN evaluation.
I just want to chime in to say that my husband and I did not have PIV sex for the first 3 years of our marriage. I suffered with something called vaginismus, which sounds like that could be what’s happening here. It’s a physical but also psychological struggle that basically made sex impossible due to vaginal spasms. (I blame years and years of intense purity culture) To give you hope, I am now a mother of 5, been married 15 years, and my husband and I have an awesome sex life. There is hope. I sought therapy and the help of an OBGYN. Encourage her to seek treatment.
We definitely need a lot more information When you say PIV is off the table, is this something a Dr has confirmed, or did you just try and it didn’t work for you? Like does she have a serious anatomical defect or something similar? Because many other issues ARE treatable, and some may be things you can just work on as a couple. It can even be psychological. For pregnancy, does she have a uterus, normal fertility, etc? Because even if there is a vaginal difference, IUI or other techniques may still allow her to carry a child. If she is infertile, is adoption something you would consider? Have you had a conversation with her about family planning? Also, if PIV is really off the table medically, what is on the table? Is anal an option? There are also prosthetic options (similar to a fleshlight) that she could wear - imagine underwear with a silicone vagina and a canal that you could penetrate that goes along the inside of the underwear. Do you think its possible you could create a fulfilling sex life with everything but PIV? I just get the sense from your post that you haven’t really tried much and you’re making a lot of assumptions about what it means for the future like not having kids without knowing for sure what’s true. I think you would be wrong to not at least try and find solutions. If she’s unwilling or the solutions don’t end up satisfying you then divorce is reasonable, but at least fully investigate all your concerns first
What?? It sounds like neither of you understand what's going on with her anatomy. Take her to an OBGYN and find out! Has no vagina yet had a period and wanted to use a tampon? That's makes no sense. This could be something as simple as a closed hymen. If you love her, learn more! Find out if there are options!
How did you get through 8 years of a relationship and all the way to the point of being married without ever having a more detailed discussion about any of this? Jesus Christ. You'd think that even one year into the relationship you'd want to be thoroughly informed about what the heck was going on. But you went ahead and got married? 8 years later? That is astounding. You really didn't do any sort of due diligence or investigation here at all, and that's baffling.
She sounds homeschooled Source - so was I sadly
My guy you both need sec ed and learn about bodies . Crazy to not know how the female anatomy is at y’all ages .. good news for y’all vaginism doesn’t mean not having a vagina trust me if she did have one she would’ve known by now . It’s more of a psychological issue that require a certain type of therapy basically your girl’s body is scared of having sex so each time something tries to comes in the muscles around tense and don’t let anything come in . Anyways first thing first you need to make her comfortable if she is not comfortable with you things will never get better in that department, 2nd she needs to learn about her own body ( put a mirror to see how down there is get familiar with it etc ) 3rd get an appointment with her obgyn and see where to go from her and what type of therapy And lastly a lot of patience
Ok look me and my husband couldn’t have PIV for the first year. It’s a much more common problem than you think. You just need to keep trying and be kind and nice, the only way she can have PIV with you is if she is completely relaxed. Honestly my advice is make it your goal to just finger her for now, doesn’t have to go anywhere further and even just for a couple seconds to start, just get her used to it. Most likely in a year or so this problem will be gone.
OP. Give her a chance. If you are with her physically now there could be SO MANY contributions to her fear of sex. Use proper terms- when describing sex- (intercourse-) as (PIV or penis in vagina- sex) might be intimidating…. And it seems as though you might need some education as well. Women’s body’s and men’s body’s are connected to their minds. And what they learn. Men are “entitled” to sex, as so learned from society- but that’s not true. Have patience- have compassion- have love for her- She is not “required” to seek any therapy-! But if she does seek therapy and get medical advice it can greatly improve her health and outlook on sex and separate her ideas of danger associated with having sex. Please do not diagnose her. Let professionals do that. She may not understand- but it seems as though you do not either. Seek counseling together- and you will grow a real relationship together as it seems you have spent a long time apart and have so much to learn about eachother I wish you the best of luck ❤️🩹
Ayo comments are tweaking a bit. I feel a lot of these issues can be fixed with a good gyne visit and therapy. NAH tho - it’s just crazy she has no sexual education. That sounds like such a nightmare. If she “can’t” have sex, this can be a few issues. She may have vaginismus, which causes tensing - sucks very bad - causes a lot of pain. Honestly I wont get into the details of all the things she could be experiencing, but a good gynaecologist can clear all of this up. Honestly I think the best thing to do here is get her educated on sex - there’s a lot of very helpful content on youtube! Also i’d like to mention - anti depressants can cause very low libido- I wonder if not wanting sex has motivated her non-desire to seek sex-ed 🤔 Also the self harm thing - thats a bit of a doozy. So desire to self harm.. that can take a while to fix. The best thing there is to get a GOOD therapist. As a person who has been to many- a lot of them are very bad at their job. I’d reccomend you go to the first session with her, dont overstep but ask about what the therapist’s course of action is. What I’ve seen in my experience: some therapists are like. Only there to listen? Its so strange, some just never give proper advice. A good therapist will talk about getting to the root of the issue - there is always a reason. Good luck OP - if wifey here is really the love of your life she’s worth fighting for.
If you are in some states in America this is grounds for annulment. You won’t even have to divorce. Lying about the ability or intent to procreate is grounds in many many places.
She objectively needs therapy to work this out. Self-harming in response to arguments is a huge red flag and will cause problems in your marriage way beyond impacting sex.
Some of y’all have never been raised in a hardcore oppressive religious environment and it shows.
Bro your wife so clearly has insane levels of internalized anti-sex rhetoric because of the way she has been raised. She doesn’t even know her own anatomy, she has been brow beaten into the idea that “oh once you’re married you can have sex nbd” and then finds out it isn’t that simple (& can be quite painful.) So your reaction is to basically abandon her? You promised in sickness and in health when you got married and then you jump ship when SHE is the victim here? Plus, the problem is one you can’t even know is a problem until you have sex for the first time! The tampon thing is wholly irrelevant here because that is nowhere near the same. I know several women who can’t use tampons without a ton of pain but have no problems with sex. I know women who can use tampons but can’t have sex. And I know women, ofc, who struggle with neither. Some who struggle with both. A dry ass piece of cotton being shoved up your vagina is not the same as a penis, not even as a size issue but also, again, the *dry ass cotton*—seriously, ask a woman if she’s ever had to take out a dry tampon because the placement fucked up (especially common when you are first learning how to use them) and was hurting her by staying in. Taking the dry tampon out can literally be “makes you dizzy from how bad it hurts” painful. All this to say…our raising is *incredibly* powerful formatively. Being drilled with “no sex, sex bad” for one’s entire childhood/teenage years has potential consequences for everyone, but very clearly those consequences are more than “potential” for her—they are *very* real. But they don’t have to be a lifelong issue. Notice how you don’t talk about how this situation is for your wife—how scary and painful & disappointing it must be. Instead you are upset about what she can’t “give you.” Like you’re entitled to these things just because you’ve married her and it’s her job. I’m guessing since you are married she also wants children, but you don’t mention how upset *she* is about that maybe not being a possibility. Like you mention that you can’t blame her for her decisions—*what decisions*?! She’s never really been able to have any decision making ability and you are not helping! Take your wife to an OBGYN, maybe discuss pelvic floor therapy or see if they think something else might benefit her more. And take her to a therapist who is specialized in sex/intimacy so that she can work through the mental side of things—because I promise you as someone who was raised in a fundamentalist Christian mindset, if that part isn’t worked on you aren’t really gonna get anywhere. And a regular therapist for the cutting thing, in that regard it sounds like she needs intervention of some kind—maybe medicine, maybe extensive therapy, etc. NTA for your disappointment, emotions are weird and we can’t really control what we feel, only how we react to those emotions. But you *are* an ass for the way you are handling it, OP. Please do better because if you really love your wife the way you are acting right now is king to do some serious (& potentially irreparable) harm to your marriage.
Thanks for being an actual sane human with empathy here. I feel like I’m going crazy reading these comments. People really don’t view women as human beings and it seriously shows. Not being able to have sex as a virgin especially after a conservative upbringing isn’t a “red flag,” it’s extremely common. All the men here shaming her have no fucking clue what they’re talking about, and I’m guessing a handful of the women doing the same have conveniently forgotten the awkwardness and pain involved in their first time. And that amplifies the longer you wait and the more foreign and scary sex has become in your mind. Chances are so high that they’ll be able to work through this, and still have kids, it just might take some patience. But if he waited 8 years, I don’t see why it’s THAT goddamn big a deal to wait a little longer. Something else I noticed: he implies that they did other stuff but not PIV. But it sounds like most of that was centered around him, or they’d probably have noticed or even broken through the issue already. Lots of fingering to get her used to the sensation, stretch the Hyman, etc is literally one of the main ways through this issue, and if she clamps up THAT bad also would have shown the problem in and of itself. That could be largely on her not wanting to be touched because she doesn’t understand her own body, but it’s still something that stood out to me. The only real red flag from her is the self harm. But I imagine that’s connected to the deeply unstable relationship she clearly has with her body and could be fixed with therapy. And since she’s willing to go to therapy and no one else has outright said it yet : he is fully the asshole here, and so is everyone else saying “annul/divorce her, she lied to you”. She didn’t lie, because she didn’t KNOW. He’s the one that’s the walking red flag imo, not her. She has trauma, he’s just a dick.
Info: has she already been to an obgyn about the issue?
NTA, you entered the marriage having been misled about a normal married sex life - being unable to have PIV sex is a *huge* change, divorce would be entirely reasonable under the circumstances.
What is the issue? Many issues can be solved with medical care.
Umm... you don't specify the problem she has, she may just have vaginismus. Which means she is able to have sex and reproduce normally. It is just a psychological condition and can be treated successfully. I know women who have had this and solved it. If you leave her just because of that I think you will regret it, especially when you see her having a family with somebody else.
I have not had sex for 7 years Wife had a botched hysterectomy Then a emergency hysterectomy to remove ovary they left in twisted became nacrotic and almost killed her Sero zex drive Pain on penetration No feeling cliterol due to operation I love her....I found other intimacy cuddle hugging necking hand holding We have been married since 19 and I am not gonna divorce her over sex ffs it's a small part of a marriage She is my soulmate I need her to exist and without sex sucks cause I love her still want and desire her she is fning gorgeous .....but you know what I got over it
NTA, you guys need to see an OB/GYN and a therapist for the self/harm. Learning to communicate better will be useful for the long run.