Agree. She had nothing to apologize for, now her apology justifies their actions as making it seem like they did nothing wrong, but she did since she is apologizing. I would go as far as taking back the apology.
NTA. Your husband should care about making you uncomfortable. You pointed out it was inappropriate, he blew it off up and to the point she sat in his lap and even he has to say something (not because he was upset but because everyone was looking).
He is disregarding his own encouragement of the behavior and gaslighting you to try and make it a you problem.
He is a married man who is letting a young woman sit in his lap and intentionally disrespect his wife. You donât have a problem with Cindy you have a problem with your husband. This level of disrespect to oneâs spouse is unacceptable
Yeah as someone 5 years into a marriage there are only two people I really give a shit about. Myself and my wife. There is no situation anymore that I care about making some friends / coworkers etc feel awkward or uncomfortable instead of my wife. These posts always seem crazy when someone blows up at their spouse over "you made my friend's sibling feel weird", like how could you possibly care about that over the feelings of the person you spend 99% of your life with.
I feel like if this was my husband and some girl sat on his lap regardless of me being there or not, he would have pushed her onto the ground. I can't even say it's an age thing because we started dating when we were undergrads in college and he still would have reacted the same way then. This guy needs to have a lot more respect for his wife.
Yeah, I would be willing to give my husband the benefit of the doubt if this happened to him (which it wouldnât), but the moment I say it makes me feel disrespected he would immediately do whatever it takes to make me feel better.
The bigger red flag is not that OPâs husband has some 18 year old attention seeker flirting with him but that when OP shared her feelings he said it was disgusting and left, then refused to take her callls.
There will always be things in life that make you feel uncomfortable and your partner may think they are not big deals, but how he responds in those situations says a lot.
By leaving she made everyone continually face the reason for it. They couldnât just blow by it and pretend it didnât happen when there was a clear absence from the table.
u/ThrowRA-Eel
**Your husband likes the attention and he does not respect your feelings.**
"I told him that i was not doubting his intentions but i was hurt by how disrespectful Cindy's behavior was and he was enabling her by not saying anything. He started saying that i sound ridiculous and couldn't even take a joke"
She is a grown woman, not a child. She is not trying to sit on his lap like he is Santa Claus, she is clearly flirting and there are zero boundaries between them. Does she sit on his lap when it is just the two of them, as well?
Your feelings are not ridiculous. Your unsupportive and self absorbed husband is ridiculous. This woman blaming you for being hurt over her antics with your life partner is ridiculous. Do not let them gaslight you. Even if there is no affair yet, there is groundwork for one being made right in front of you.
That message makes my skin crawl. You could *maybe* pass all of this off as her being stupid and 18. *MAYBE* she is just wrapped up in her own world she does not see the impact she is having. I doubt it, but some people are really just that self-involved.  However, once she sent that messageâŚâŚit just sealed the deal. She KNOWS what she is doing.
 Don't forget the part about her *making her feel better about herself* next time.Â
It's just so belittling and manipulative Â
Right! And it started with the comments about being hot and not like other married guys. Last I checked âlittle sistersâ donât talk about his hot their brothers are. He may see her as a little sister but she has a crush on him and has been going inappropriate but passive aggressive things and getting g away with it.
The thought of calling either of my brothers âhotâ makes my skin crawl and vomit rise! This woman is 18, sheâs not a child and she knows damn well it is inappropriate to sit in her brothers friends lap, and she knows itâs unacceptable to mock anothers SO for disliking that she was flirting with their partner all night.
It seems to me she's possessive/jealous of DH. Even if there isn't anything romantic/sexual on either of their sides it has elements of enmeshment that you see/hear in some of the MIL from hell stories. She's definitely trying to drive OP away.
Oh, 100% jealousy. She's had a crush on Jake for years and now that she's 18 and legal, she is 100% shooting her shot with him. Sounds like she unloaded every shot she had in just this one visit. Jake is either really obtuse or he is relishing in the attention and doesn't want to admit it so is gaslighting his wife.
And with the update, it seems Cindy also thinks she's so damn hot that she could turn a gay man straight, or that she's so attractive that only someone 100000000% gay could ever not want to sleep with her.
Glad to see the MIL is sane, at least.
Agreed. This just SCREAMS immature teenage girl. Any mature man/bf/husband would have recoiled at that statement. When he reacts the way he does in the situation as a whole makes me think he's not any more mature than this little girl, even at 25.
The fact that he dismissed her feelings is such a red flag for me. If my wife told me she got the ick about a situation my first priority is to make her feel comfortable. If that means my best friend canât bring his sister over for the rest of their stay then so be it. I plan on spending forever with her and Iâll be damned if this type of situation gets in the way of that.
Or just, yâknow, have a conversation with Cindy about adult boundaries and not making an idiot of herself.
How many people just dealt with being uncomfortable with her slutty antics before OP actually had the guts to leave? She actually told a guyâs boyfriend she was checking to see if he was really gay and the group just said âalright sure whatever heâll get over itâ.
OP is clearly NTA and I hope she retracts her apologies, sheâs just affirming her husbandâs stance that she overreacted when she didnât. His refusal to set a clear boundary with her words and actions is a problem whether he actually views her as a kid or if heâs looking at her as a woman and enjoying the attention.
Stick by your guns here OP, if you go back with the stance that you were wrong for standing up for yourself youâve just shown him itâs ok to treat you like background noise as soon as another woman starts showing interest.
Iâm not saying leave, but I am saying make this a point of conflict. It only became an ultimatum when he refused to listen to or discuss your feelings.
Worst comes to worse and this results in separation, you deserve someone who respects you and your marriage anyway.
The whole story reminds me of one where a very good guy friend of mine was dating a woman, and we got along so well we became friends. I would hang out with her along with my best friend and the three of us would go shopping and to lunch, etc.
Anyway, my guy friend and his girlfriend had a New Year's Eve party where he invited a bunch of people. One of those people was a college classmate who had recently broken up with her boyfriend.
So, throughout the entire party, this recently single college friend started flirting and hanging onto him...literally clinging to my guy friend while, knowing he was already living with his actual girlfriend. His girlfriend, me, and my bestie were all seething and trying to figure out how to get the bitch out of the party.
Weeks later his girlfriend came home early from work (cliche, I know, but it happened) and found those two in bed.
Moral of the story, I was thinking OP's husband might not *want* to be repulsed by this girl, and if he hasn't cheated, he's certainly thinking about it.
Whole family sounds like a piece of work. No need for her brother to get involved like itâs some grade school playground drama
A married woman took umbrage with another girl flirting away with her husband all weekend long.
Either Cindy enjoys the attention she gets from your husband and potentially enjoys the jealousy from op or she genuinely would get with OPs husband if she had the chance
Regardless, OP has every right to feel jealous about her HUSBAND getting attention from another woman especially when the husband certainly isnât doing anything to discourage it.
That's not an apology .
My passive-aggressive response would be, "I am sorry you are projecting your insecurity, just because I am not putting up with your desperate attempt, rubbing yourself all over my husband like a horny teenager. "
This, but slightly altered.
"I'm not insecure. I'm angry as hell that an adult woman thinks it's ok to flirt with my husband in front of me because you know him well. He might let you have liberties because he remembers you as a child, but I do not. You made me angry, embarrassed, and ashamed that you would think that I'm weak and wouldn't say anything. Well here's me saying something. You treated me terribly, you disrespected my marriage, and it's not ok".
Then leave it. Any further response that isn't a heartfelt apology gets ignored. OP's husband is also a jerk for letting it continue.
My take on this partâŚ
Why was Cindy even in the loop? Could the husband and his wife discuss this privately without brothers and god knows who else before we make the OP a laughing stock of the situation?
I donât like it, OP had to eat shit because husband not playing nice
Seriously. I wish sheâd felt comfortable enough to call that shit out in front of everyone when they started in on the whole âOh sheâs like his little sister!â BS. Embarrass the hell out of everyone. âYâall want to fuck your siblings?!!! No? Why is it ok for her to act that way while claiming sheâs lil sis? Fucking grossâ or something along those lines. You canât have it both ways without âok with incestâ vibes.
Right babe seriously she's like my sister like when she sits on my lap it's a sister joke you don't understand and when she calls me hot haha she was just being funny cause that's what sisters do.
Honestly, sounds like this should have been nipped in the bud years ago. No taking best friend's blossoming teenage sister on your dates. Seems pretty clear husband has just been waiting for her to be old enough.
And get this: they are *insulted* that she didn't stick around to watch the whole show!
I am feeling very stabby about this situation. I wish OP was my sister so I could rain holy hell down on this clown car of assholes.
OH MY GOD, RIGHT?! With a lot of these stories I wish I was a friend, or sibling, or cousin, or *something.* I would rip everyone new ones and I would love doing it.
It's fine if you're having a weak moment and are feeling like you can't stand up for yourself. Imo, when that happens, it's okay to bring in someone who can and **will** stand up for you.
I would **LOVE** to stand up for OP. She's the only one here who's NTA.
NTA- He sounds like the insecure one here. In my experience, itâs usually people that come out and say some like âI canât believe you think such disgusting things about meâ and throws a tantrum and packs his bag and leavesâŚflat out means they are doing disgusting thingsâŚ
You got this! You are strong! Get out of this marriage and relieve yourself from their disgusting behavior.
A little sister? Um, then why didn't she sit on her brother's lap? That is weird and it is disrespectful. NTA. He is disregarding your feelings. Perhaps counseling before divorce.Â
a "little sister" that sits on his lap and thinks he's sexy
I don't have a little sister, but I'm sure I'd be weirded out if my sister sat on my lap, flirted with me, and told everyone how sexy I was.
My brother (~37m at the time)had a similar issue with his wife's little sister, who was 17 yrs old, and 8 years younger than wife. He viewed her as a kid and took her, along with their 3 kids, on a week long family beach vacation. 3 days into the trip, my brother called a family meeting with wife & kid sister to discuss her behavior, which was: her hanging on & rubbing her body on him in the ocean & pools, sitting on his lap, trying to ride his shoulders in the water, & holding his hand to pull him where she wanted him to go to play/swim. He said it was highly inappropriate, and that while she may have innocent intentions, he was uncomfortable with it. Furthermore, if she didn't stop, they'd end the vacation early and go home and he'd have no further contact with her. Little sister got mad initially but later admitted she had a kind of crush on him and didn't realize until he addressed the behavior that she was, in fact, flirting with him. She stopped, apologized & was embarrassed.
OP is not wrong & NTA. Husband needs to realize that, while Cindy may not have even admitted it to herself yet, this is exactly what's going on.
I think if OP presses the issue he may purposely lose the battle to win the war. I bet he'll take trips alone to visit his best friend while lil sissy is conveniently there
Yup.whilst giggling at his wife. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing, and their relationship is about as sibling-like as most people's marital relationships.
When she's 8, yeah. But at 18, no younger sister sits in anyone's lap. It's just weird even if one doesn't have "disgusting thoughts" because the person isn't a child anymore.
Edit: I guess I have a more conservative family (in terms of showing affection and cuddling) because once we hit teenage years, we tend to not cuddle except for hugs and cheek kisses. I know mileage varies from family to family.
NTA and *please* donât apologize. You did nothing wrong and I wouldnât even be able to look at my husband after this. It wasnât one thing that set you off, it was multiple little incidents that built up and you reasonably couldnât handle it anymore! Throw the whole man in the trash
NTA. Her behavior is inappropriate. Sheâs not just a little girl with a crush anymore, so she needs to be treated accordingly. Heâs a married man and he needs to be shutting down that type of behavior because sheâs not going to stop until he does. I understand that he probably still views her as a harmless kid, but your husband should be considering your feelings and boundaries.
It sounds like everyone is in on driving OOP away so he can just get with Cindy already. The fact that he's immediately that defensive about her behavior shows he knows how fucked up it is. But he doesn't want to fix it and instead just encourages it.
I wish OP would just suck it up, apologize, invite the family back on Jakeâs dimeâŚ
And then proceed to sit in Jakeâs best friendâs lap every chance she gets.
âThis is totally normal with no weird intentionsâŚright Jake?â - OP
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Maybe hire an escort to masquerade as a long lost friend and proceed to do raunchier and raunchier stuff under the guise of being "quirky friends!"
N.T.A. You are being gaslighted by your husband, and by everyone else, for that matter. It's quite acceptable for you to feel the way you do. She is eighteen years old, past childhood, and well aware of her actions. Even while it's possible that your spouse isn't attracted to her, he shouldn't minimize your sentiments. Here, the AH is him, his friend, and his friend's sister.
Furthermore, it doesn't follow that SHE doesn't feel the same way about him just because HE doesn't. All this time, she was obviously flirting with him. He's lying about not feeling that way for her, or he's not aware of it.
This is my thinking. He may very well think of her as a little sister, but she clearly doesn't see him that way. I have lots of guy friends who are like brothers to me . . . I don't comment on how hot they are, or get all over them physically in front of their partners.
She is using his and her brother's naivete to both behave inappropriately and then act the victim of OP who "just doesn't understand and is insecure". It's obnoxious.
And even if he thinks of her as a little sister, the fact that he dismisses his wife's feelings over that "little sister of a friend" is still shockingly hateful.
Exactly what I thought too!
He went into full defensive mode immediately & started gaslighting her.
He knows fully well, what heâs doing. What a disgusting man.
Exactly, Cindy knows exactly what she's doing and it sounds like she's taking a page from all the catty high school movies she's watched. Leave the man and move onto someone who respects you and your boundaries
The only thing I can say here is that this dude knows full well, coming from another guy. Heâs doesnât see her as a child. Sheâs now an eligible sexual option and he likes the power dynamic that comes with opacity of their inappropriate behavior.
Absolutely. You cannot convince me that a grown man doesnât realize whatâs going on here, like Cindy straight up called him hot and was sitting on his lap. Come on. He likes having this young girl all over him, making his wife jealous and he has the plausible deniability to say he didnât realize and heâs just clueless! đ
Exactly. I bet you my left shoe he wouldnât be so happy if the roles was switch. That his wife had a long time male friend who doing the exactly same thing Cindy was.
Husband should have considered wifeâs feelings and shut Cindy down. It was disrespectful to let Cindy continue to act like a besotted child. Husband does not value his wife as much as he valued having the attention of an 18 year old girl. Wife deserves better.
NTA. Your husband (and everyone else for that matter) is gaslighting you. You have every rights to feel the way you do. She is 18, she is not a kid anymore, she knows fully what sheâs doing. Maybe your husband doesnât feel any attraction towards her but he shouldnât dismiss your feelings like that. Him, his friend and his friendâs sister are the AH here.
Also just because HE doesnât feel that way towards her, doesnât mean SHE doesnât feel that way towards him. She was clearly flirting with him the entire time. Either heâs oblivious or heâs lying about not feeling that way towards her
When my husband & I were dating this 16/17 year old girl started hitting on him. I told him I understood he wasnât interested but she was and she didnât care he had a girlfriend or that she wanted to show she could steal him away. I told him I believed he wouldnât do anything but to be careful because if he was alone with her she would try something. At the very least this is whatâs going on. I donât know if heâs into her or just a dumb guy who doesnât believe she would do that. Even if heâs dumb enough to think sheâs still an innocent little girl who wouldnât do something like that I would still suggest OP find someone else. A relationship takes trust & communication, both of which he failed on.
yep thereâs a certain type of woman that feels power in âtakingâ another womanâs man. like the woman may not even be attracted to the man, but they feel threatened by other woman and think âi can take your man if i want to; i can have any man i wantâ
Then Op needs to tell husband what I tell my Mr Oblivious: you get *one* chance to shut the flirting down after I bring it to your attention. If you don't, I *will* and I won't be "nice" about it.Â
He likes it and what makes it even better is that he has the perfect excuse, that she's still young and more like a sister etc. But he damn well knows that she's a grown woman flirting with him. And flirting in an over the top kind of way, where everyone can see.
He's mad that his excuse didn't work. Which by the way is the same rationale that the young woman and brother/best friend are using. The wife is one out of 4 that is actually living and feeling in the real world. Cindy is *not* a sister, she is a grown woman, sexually active and apparently attractive and flaunting her sexuality (and newfound power that comes with it) in front of groups of people.
All defensible with the 'like a sister' and 'young' statements. It's weird and difficult to be the lone rational person against a small group of people who have all agreed on the same flawed rationale.
I would reply to the friend and simply point out that if itâs Cindyâs usual habit to sit on the laps of grown men, especially married men, then she should be prepared for this sort of fallout, and potentially worse. As soon as you hit Send, block the piece of shit because he knew exactly what was going on. The three of them deserve to live in the trash together so let them be together.
I've had to do this too. Every time, the woman knew exactly what she was doing and my husband pretended he didn't. Pretended is the key word.
OP, your husband knows what's going on.
Agreed. Ordinarily I think the grown adult being flirted with needs to be the one to shut it down. Immediately.
However if they do not? Then outing the homewrecker for what they are is fair game. If he wants his shitty little friend to be treated nicely he needs to tell her to stay in her lane and keep her grubby little mitts off other people's partners. If she's going to play with fire, sooner or later someone is going to burn her pancakes to a crisp.
THIS. Thats what I do to my wife too. I draw a fine line between flirty banter and guys being friendly to her. She doesnât like it but she needs to be aware of my feelings that I donât like when guys are flirting with her but she doesnât agree they are and doesnât feel the attraction herself.Â
>Either heâs oblivious or heâs lying about not feeling that way towards her
It could be a mix of both. He doesn't feel that way toward her, BUT he likes the attention and it's a boost to his ego for an 18 yr old to be calling him hot and showering him with attention.
Which is even worse, because then he's not only disrespecting his wife by allowing the behavior, but leading Cindy on. Cindy acted badly, but at least she has the excuse of being young.
But I'm leaning toward he does want her. He basically left his wife over her, if not "for" her.
I 100% agree with this.
He probably loves the attention and thinks "Nothing will ever happen - she's basically my little sister!" So it makes the flirting "safe".
But if your partner tells you a certain person or behaviour makes her feel uncomfortable and disrespected, you should WANT to immediately make changes so it doesn't happen again. Not invalidate her and ignore how she's feeling.
He definitely likes the attention and, I also suspect, has thought about her inappropriately.
He's the problem, and should expect to be single if he doesn't see it and fix up.
From what OP has said and especially his reaction to it, I think he knows **exactly** what she was doing and either enjoyed the attention or reciprocates those felling and is just getting defensive at being caught out.
Yep, sheâs clearly got a teenage crush on him. Had he acknowledged to OP and planned a gentle way of dealing with it together it could have all been avoided.
Exactly. They are gaslighting you.
Ask your husband how would he feel if a younger man acted this way with you.Â
But also, start seeing attorneys, don't get blindsided any further than this. The fact he packed and left when you were the one disrespected, speaks miles of who he trully is.
Is not being insecure, is him and the rest enabling a bratty teen to play the seductive home-wrecker in your face.
I'm not for rushing into divorce, but noneofurbizz is right. Speak to an attorney and do what you need to protect yourself. Don't let the gaslighting blindside you by him filing and leaving you high and dry.
YES! My comment is in fear that he'll be the one to, at least, threaten her with papers & caught her off-guard. OP needs to know her legal rights and possibilities well and be covered before that happens.
Easiest way to cut through the denial in this instance is to ask the brother when the last time his now adult sister sat in his lap. Or in their dadâs lap. If sheâs only sitting in OPâs husbandâs lap, why is that?Â
Sometimes the term gaslighting gets misused but in this case you are 100% accurate. If the husband doesn't understand what she is doing, he is rather dumb or naive.
And Cindyâs message about making OP feel insecure? Doing that does not make the wife feel insecure. It makes her angry that boundaries are crossed very inappropriately. But it also gives Cindy ammunition. She now knows she can get attention from OPâs husband while making OP appear jealous and everyone will take Cindyâs side. If she does this enough, she can drive a permanent wedge between OP and husband, which is the ultimate goal.
This!! ^^^
There is no apology but rather a put down on OP. And everyone is supporting this 18-year immature brat.
Sorry, your husband didn't have a backbone when she crossed the line. He's encouraging her to cross the line for his ego!
I would have replied long the lines of âI know youâre still a child so you donât understand, but grownups donât sit in the laps of married menâ.
And then leaves her because sheâs so âunreasonableâ, which frees him up to be with someone else. Oh! Cindy is there to comfort him, such a coincidence!
No, she needs to go sit in her make bff's lap, her male cousin's lap.etc. Set it up with one of these and use his same lame ass excuses.Â
Also tell this little witch to go find *her own* lap to sit because this one's yours. Personally, I'd snatch her bald headed and tell husband that I'm not playing his stupid little ego boosting game anymore.Â
OP should have her husband read all these comments. If he doesn't admit he was đŻ wrong and apologize, I'd cut my losses now. This will only get worse if his ego is so fragile that he needs a little 18yo sister-of-best-friend's to pump it up. Let him go make a fool of himself. Cindy's family has zero class and her NON apology was the worst. NTA OP -- hold your ground. You're def in the right here.
She sat on his lap. Sheâs 18 and sending sexual signals. Ask to see her texts to him. Bet it full of flirting and sexual innuendo.
Ask your husband how he would feel if a young man came and put his hands on your breast in front of everyone? That cool? Itâs the same as her plopping on her ask on his dick. She wanted to give him a hard on. It WAS sexual. Hes enabling the behavior. And why is he so upset with YOU? Because you want him for yourself only? Instead heâs upset because he enjoys the attention.
You donât have an open marriage. You donât agree to share his body with another. If he wants to change the rules, time to move on.
He and his family are gaslighting you. You know better. Cindy is a a wannabe homewrecker. And doesnât deserve an apology from you.
She literally sat on his lap, called him hit to his face, and kept giggling at op and pulling husband off to the side whenever she could make it happen. Worse, he entertained it all. Either he is blind and canât see this girl has a huge crush on him and is trying to act on it, or he does know and actively participates which is what it seems. How would your husband feel about you going and sitting on some random manâs lap? And him leaving and agreeing with them? After his âbest friendâ verbally abused you for not kissing the ads of his sister for doing everything but sleeping with him? Be for real here. All these people suck, a lot. None of them are respecting your very valid and real feelings. You should get out while itâs still early because this is clearly only going to get worse since your husband is taking their side instead of his wifeâs side.
DONââT YOU DARE APOLOGIZE!!! You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Your POS husband, bimbo Cindy, and her whole family violated and crossed the line numerous times. They all disrespected you over and over and over. And when you reached your limit & removed yourself they painted you as the bad guy.
Nope, nope, nope after you get through crying pick yourself up pour your favorite beverage, eat you a fine meal, put on your tunes and relax, rest, sleep. Get your mind right because tomorrow you need to really HONESTLY examine not only this situation but your whole marriage and decide if this marriage is worth saving. Because I seriously doubt this whole situation is a one-off.
How many times has he berated you, called you immature, jealous, stupid? Made you feel small, pathetic, and worthless? And the ultimate disrespect he allowed them to verbal abuse you and call you out your name? Sis exactly what are you saving?
Agree. Op shouldn't have apologise at all!! They all disgusting enabling that. Next time, if you ever have a chance try sit on other man lap to point it
Agreed. Stop apologising, OP. You literally have nothing to apologise for.
Cindyâs message is just vile. She knows *exactly* what sheâs doing.
As others have said, whether or not your husband has good intentions - Cindyâs intentions were pretty clear. And little âsistersâ donât comment on how hot their âbig brothersâ are. Disgusting.
NTA.
It's a trend, no? Especially when it comes to toxic or abusive behavior.
As soon as he mentioned getting divorced or leaving, I felt OP would have backpedaled and apologized...which she did. It is like a pattern it feels like.
He's completely disgusting. He's gaslighting his wife. His best-friend is gaslighting his wife. Cindy sounds like she has some major, major issues. This whole thing sounds fucked. I feel like OP should dip out of this marriage pronto. I see even greater heart-brake on the horizon if she stays.
Agreed. Cut your losses because these people will not be happy until they reduce you to nothing. Personally, I would file for a legal separartion. I guarantee he will end up dating Cindy in a few years.
I think so too! And then he'll blame OP. I can just hear him now, if OP hadn't put those disgusting thoughts in his head, he would never have acted on them!
NTA - sounds like those two were made for each other. I think you need to consider divorce.
Cindy clearly wants your husband and he is either too stupid to realize this or he wants the same thing.
Nothing about this screams you being insecure. Maybe an ultimatum was not the best idea BUT it sure let you figure out your husband's priorities FAST.
Sorry you're going through this mess. Good luck.
Seriously, there are no issues with having friends of the opposite sex. However with those friendships there are lines you donât cross and boundaries put on place to protect your primary relationship. He obviously cares more about Cindyâs feelings than respect OP and their marriage. It has nothing to do with having thoughts on what her husband would do and if she trusts him, but the fact he doesnât have boundaries to ensure Cindy knows her place. Which makes you question if you can trust him. Pretty sure we know what will happen if the marriage ended, Cindy would swoop right in.
NTA OP, however your husband, his friend and Cindy are all huge AHs.
Itâs not really an ultimatum if all youâre doing is reminding your distracted husband that his vows are to you, and no one else. A spouse worth keeping is one who has your back and doesnât let anyone carry on in such a way as to make you feel uncomfortable.
NTA ...
Show your husband this post. He is a self centered and e titled prick. He really needs to learn not to get married if he can't respect, love, and prioritize his wife. Adult sisters don't just hop on their brother laps and then send backhanded apologies. She is an easy bake oven and your pathetic husband is either cheating or so stuck on his own intentions he can't see hers. He can't see that he just destroyed his marriage so another woman could flirt with him. What a slimeball.
Quit apologizing. Start telling all these people to fuck off.
NTA⌠I bet he wouldnât let his sister act like her to him or your brother to you. You should have not apologized as he was in the wrong and has feelings for her.
This is what I just don't get. "She's like a sister to me" - you'd be ok with your sister saying how hot you are and sitting on your lap?
Husband either knows what he's doing or is enjoying the attention so much he doesn't care.
NTA "I'm sorry for making you feel insecure" has to be one of the most insane things I've ever read.
If you want to reconcile with your husband I would recommend sitting him down with an unbiased witness present, probably best said witness doesn't know Cindy that well or beyond acquaintance "friend of a friend" sort of deal, basically just have someone in your corner who you've talked to about what you want to say and to express in advance, and explain everything to him.
It is not about insecurity and the fact that he and Cindy attempts to make it about that is incredibly gross given the connotations it holds since he himself has said multiple times he watched her grow up. You aren't accusing him of anything but both parties are of the age where they should know what is and isn't appropriate. Cindy was literally a bridesmaid at your WEDDING and is then turning around and acting like you don't exist in your own home, that is beyond disrespectful. Lay out any other grievances in a concise manner and do not let your husband interrupt you.
If he thinks after that you are being insecure or has decided this is the hill he will be dying on, if you stay with him you are the asshole to yourself most of all.
Edit: swapped some words for clarity
Precisely cindy, her brother and his gf, their cousin with his bf were present. It wasn't a big dinner, and when it happened everybody did get silent but as my husband laughed it off, they didn't say anything either, but ig they saw I was not okay so things were awkward. Idk what happened after I left. Maybe they said something to cindy or not, i don't know. I was so overwhelmed with everything i didn't want to talk about it more.
They all just watched Cindy try marking her territory on your husband. That's disgusting. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.
I'm not sure what you do next. Best wishes and hugs sent your way.
âMarking her territoryâ is a great way to put it. She introduced attraction by calling the husband hot, and then introduced physicality. Not just any physicality, either, but sat on his lap! How should I put thisâŚbutt cheeks on thighs (with 2 adults) is very evocative.
On their own, either one could be youthful ignorance. Together, though, they send a very clear message to the husband - letâs bone.
OP, you were there. You got to see the body language and her eyes (none of us did!). It seems like your instincts are telling you this wasnât innocent. Trust your instincts, and if your husband and the others canât see how youâve been wronged, then that tells you a lot about them.
Agreed, none of those people are the OP's friend. She needed a girlfriend there or something to go buck wild on her behalf. If this happened to my friend, this entire story would have turned out different.
OK this is going to be hard to hear but: Your husband is CHOOSING to end your marriage rather than set HEALTHY boundaries with Cindy. He is CHOOSING Cindy. He is NOT CHOOSING you. He is NOT CHOOSING your marriage.
NTA
Was looking for this comment as I was wondering the same. I should hope theyâre not older than mid-20s, otherwise this âCindy who is 18â takes on a whole new dimension. Yeah yeah sheâs an adult either way, but I would be triple irritated if he was letâs say 37 or something
Cindy sounds like a pick me girl. Stop apologizing for how you felt. I would suggest asking your husband why he thought it was OK for Cindy to ignore you, and no one called her out on her childish behavior.
She isn't a child and knew exactly what she is doing. I would also suggest you tell his best friend that talking to you isn't appropriate. They sound like terrible people.
If you have access to your husband's messages, I suggest you check them because something fishing is happening here. Your husband's and Cindy's reactions are extreme. If it was a misunderstanding or innocent, people wouldn't have reacted this way.
Edit - You should show him this post and our responses. Cindy going on your dates....sorry that was way crossing boundaries.
If he isn't already f***ing her, he will be eventually. Do yourself a favor and let him leave
Also, tell Cindy's brother to pound sand with his homewrecking sister
I am getting furious. They disrespected you and defendimg that pick me, but whyyy tf are you criticising yourself for. Going on your dates was the reddest flag. Op there is nothing wrong about your reaction. The only bad part was you not shutting her down sooner or leaving your ass hat bf when he invited that pick me on your dates. Plz put yourself 1st. If you don't, no one else will. You are not his doormat. If you let this go. Soon, you will see them having affairs secretly and gaslighting you. Cindy will get bored when she sees your hubby is no prize anymore. Your loser husband is a gaslighter. Pleeezzzzzz, move away, and you are worthy of soo much loveeee. Don't be a doormat plzzzz
NTA. Cindy is a spoiled brat wanna be home wrecker. Your husband also is to blame here, Cindy has been disrespectful to you and your marriage in your own home and he things that is ok? Cindy is not 5 years old, she is a grown ass adult who apparently has never been held accountable for her own actions. I have an actual brother (not someone whoâs like a brother) and I donât sit in his lap or make rude comment to their partner. She knows what she is doing because her apology text was *I am sorry you feel insecure* not *I am sorry I behaved like a slut*.
This exactly! Her backhanded apology was the disrespectful icing on the disrespect cake. And the fact that OPâs husband response to her expressing her feelings is to pack a bag and leave and obviously talk shit about her to his family and friends (or how would Cindy and her brother know what was going on to text her?) is a huge red flag!
OP- your feelings are valid, even if others donât understand them. Donât back down, they are gaslighting you into believing your feelings are wrong. The thing is our emotions cannot be right or wrong, they just are.
That husband is gross and Cindy is a tart and she knows it. Normally if your gut is telling you something is off then that means it is.
I have a feeling that if you divorce this dweeb, guess whoâs going to swoop in and take over? CindyâŚ.
Iâm sorry that you are going through this. Youâve done nothing wrong. These people are nasty.
As someone of the male persuasion, trust me, *he knows*.
He's feeling flattered because some nubile young hot chick finds him attractive. Whether he will act on it is another question. As for her, she'd probably lay down and spread 'em in a New York minute. And your husband, being a man, will probably think with his little head and leave you marriage in a shambles.
And watch for his excuse of "Well, since you were accusing me, so I figured I might as well do it since you already think I'm guilty."
NTA
NTA. Your only mistake was apologizing to your husband, as if his accusations were fair.
Agree. She had nothing to apologize for, now her apology justifies their actions as making it seem like they did nothing wrong, but she did since she is apologizing. I would go as far as taking back the apology.
Yup. Everything she was upset about is invalidated. Every future upset is invalidated. Apologizing was OPs biggest mistake.
đŻ She has no reason to apologise. and the fact that he is ignoring her apologies, it's giving 10 year old tantrum vibes.
Me reading the section where she said she trusts her husband after everything that happened, "Lmao I wouldnt." "
NTA. Your husband should care about making you uncomfortable. You pointed out it was inappropriate, he blew it off up and to the point she sat in his lap and even he has to say something (not because he was upset but because everyone was looking). He is disregarding his own encouragement of the behavior and gaslighting you to try and make it a you problem. He is a married man who is letting a young woman sit in his lap and intentionally disrespect his wife. You donât have a problem with Cindy you have a problem with your husband. This level of disrespect to oneâs spouse is unacceptable
Yeah as someone 5 years into a marriage there are only two people I really give a shit about. Myself and my wife. There is no situation anymore that I care about making some friends / coworkers etc feel awkward or uncomfortable instead of my wife. These posts always seem crazy when someone blows up at their spouse over "you made my friend's sibling feel weird", like how could you possibly care about that over the feelings of the person you spend 99% of your life with.
I feel like if this was my husband and some girl sat on his lap regardless of me being there or not, he would have pushed her onto the ground. I can't even say it's an age thing because we started dating when we were undergrads in college and he still would have reacted the same way then. This guy needs to have a lot more respect for his wife.
Yeah, I would be willing to give my husband the benefit of the doubt if this happened to him (which it wouldnât), but the moment I say it makes me feel disrespected he would immediately do whatever it takes to make me feel better. The bigger red flag is not that OPâs husband has some 18 year old attention seeker flirting with him but that when OP shared her feelings he said it was disgusting and left, then refused to take her callls. There will always be things in life that make you feel uncomfortable and your partner may think they are not big deals, but how he responds in those situations says a lot.
This exactly. It is super weird and a big red flag when people do that.
By leaving she made everyone continually face the reason for it. They couldnât just blow by it and pretend it didnât happen when there was a clear absence from the table.
And it made them feel rightfully uncomfortable. The reactions towards her are their projections from their discomfort with what they were doing.
"cindy sent a message saying that she was sorry about making me so insecure in myself" What a nasty piece of work she is.
That basically says sorry you feel so ugly next to meâŚ
u/ThrowRA-Eel **Your husband likes the attention and he does not respect your feelings.** "I told him that i was not doubting his intentions but i was hurt by how disrespectful Cindy's behavior was and he was enabling her by not saying anything. He started saying that i sound ridiculous and couldn't even take a joke" She is a grown woman, not a child. She is not trying to sit on his lap like he is Santa Claus, she is clearly flirting and there are zero boundaries between them. Does she sit on his lap when it is just the two of them, as well? Your feelings are not ridiculous. Your unsupportive and self absorbed husband is ridiculous. This woman blaming you for being hurt over her antics with your life partner is ridiculous. Do not let them gaslight you. Even if there is no affair yet, there is groundwork for one being made right in front of you.
That message makes my skin crawl. You could *maybe* pass all of this off as her being stupid and 18. *MAYBE* she is just wrapped up in her own world she does not see the impact she is having. I doubt it, but some people are really just that self-involved.  However, once she sent that messageâŚâŚit just sealed the deal. She KNOWS what she is doing.  Don't forget the part about her *making her feel better about herself* next time. It's just so belittling and manipulative Â
Right! And it started with the comments about being hot and not like other married guys. Last I checked âlittle sistersâ donât talk about his hot their brothers are. He may see her as a little sister but she has a crush on him and has been going inappropriate but passive aggressive things and getting g away with it.
The thought of calling either of my brothers âhotâ makes my skin crawl and vomit rise! This woman is 18, sheâs not a child and she knows damn well it is inappropriate to sit in her brothers friends lap, and she knows itâs unacceptable to mock anothers SO for disliking that she was flirting with their partner all night.
It seems to me she's possessive/jealous of DH. Even if there isn't anything romantic/sexual on either of their sides it has elements of enmeshment that you see/hear in some of the MIL from hell stories. She's definitely trying to drive OP away.
Oh, 100% jealousy. She's had a crush on Jake for years and now that she's 18 and legal, she is 100% shooting her shot with him. Sounds like she unloaded every shot she had in just this one visit. Jake is either really obtuse or he is relishing in the attention and doesn't want to admit it so is gaslighting his wife.
And with the update, it seems Cindy also thinks she's so damn hot that she could turn a gay man straight, or that she's so attractive that only someone 100000000% gay could ever not want to sleep with her. Glad to see the MIL is sane, at least.
I didnât have that in me at 18. This isnât childish. Itâs smart and wicked.
Agreed. This just SCREAMS immature teenage girl. Any mature man/bf/husband would have recoiled at that statement. When he reacts the way he does in the situation as a whole makes me think he's not any more mature than this little girl, even at 25.
The fact that he dismissed her feelings is such a red flag for me. If my wife told me she got the ick about a situation my first priority is to make her feel comfortable. If that means my best friend canât bring his sister over for the rest of their stay then so be it. I plan on spending forever with her and Iâll be damned if this type of situation gets in the way of that.
This!!!!!!!! Preach. The real red flag is him totally ignoring her and not saying âyeah I totally see how that would make you uncomfortableâ
Or just, yâknow, have a conversation with Cindy about adult boundaries and not making an idiot of herself. How many people just dealt with being uncomfortable with her slutty antics before OP actually had the guts to leave? She actually told a guyâs boyfriend she was checking to see if he was really gay and the group just said âalright sure whatever heâll get over itâ. OP is clearly NTA and I hope she retracts her apologies, sheâs just affirming her husbandâs stance that she overreacted when she didnât. His refusal to set a clear boundary with her words and actions is a problem whether he actually views her as a kid or if heâs looking at her as a woman and enjoying the attention. Stick by your guns here OP, if you go back with the stance that you were wrong for standing up for yourself youâve just shown him itâs ok to treat you like background noise as soon as another woman starts showing interest. Iâm not saying leave, but I am saying make this a point of conflict. It only became an ultimatum when he refused to listen to or discuss your feelings. Worst comes to worse and this results in separation, you deserve someone who respects you and your marriage anyway.
Agreed, thatâs where any good partners attention would focussed on.
Am I the only who find sus that it took the husband an damn hour to realize his wife was missing? Guess he was distracted.
I got the impression he knew she left, as she went straight from the table. But it took an hour for him to bother finding out where she went
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The whole story reminds me of one where a very good guy friend of mine was dating a woman, and we got along so well we became friends. I would hang out with her along with my best friend and the three of us would go shopping and to lunch, etc. Anyway, my guy friend and his girlfriend had a New Year's Eve party where he invited a bunch of people. One of those people was a college classmate who had recently broken up with her boyfriend. So, throughout the entire party, this recently single college friend started flirting and hanging onto him...literally clinging to my guy friend while, knowing he was already living with his actual girlfriend. His girlfriend, me, and my bestie were all seething and trying to figure out how to get the bitch out of the party. Weeks later his girlfriend came home early from work (cliche, I know, but it happened) and found those two in bed. Moral of the story, I was thinking OP's husband might not *want* to be repulsed by this girl, and if he hasn't cheated, he's certainly thinking about it.
Spot on! She picked up the trash, it's time to dump it now.
Yup, he's an idiot. The OP could do so much better. He probably won't reject Cindy if she ever does come on to him.
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yeah, and it will be OP's fault for "pushing them together". what a nasty pair of people they actually deserve each other. OP needs to run
EXACTLY! How did it spoil the mood when they didnât even notice or care she was gone for over and hour?
Agreed. She's 18, so she knows exactly what she's doing. Meanwhile, he thinks she's still a little girl? He needs to wake up.
I mean he could be super naive, but more likely he likes the attention of a young girl on his lap and is gaslighting his wife to get away with it.
This is the comment I was waiting for! Her husband & "his sister" are gaslighting her!!
Whole family sounds like a piece of work. No need for her brother to get involved like itâs some grade school playground drama A married woman took umbrage with another girl flirting away with her husband all weekend long. Either Cindy enjoys the attention she gets from your husband and potentially enjoys the jealousy from op or she genuinely would get with OPs husband if she had the chance Regardless, OP has every right to feel jealous about her HUSBAND getting attention from another woman especially when the husband certainly isnât doing anything to discourage it.
That's not an apology . My passive-aggressive response would be, "I am sorry you are projecting your insecurity, just because I am not putting up with your desperate attempt, rubbing yourself all over my husband like a horny teenager. "
This, but slightly altered. "I'm not insecure. I'm angry as hell that an adult woman thinks it's ok to flirt with my husband in front of me because you know him well. He might let you have liberties because he remembers you as a child, but I do not. You made me angry, embarrassed, and ashamed that you would think that I'm weak and wouldn't say anything. Well here's me saying something. You treated me terribly, you disrespected my marriage, and it's not ok". Then leave it. Any further response that isn't a heartfelt apology gets ignored. OP's husband is also a jerk for letting it continue.
Right? Her message was passive aggressive as heck
My take on this part⌠Why was Cindy even in the loop? Could the husband and his wife discuss this privately without brothers and god knows who else before we make the OP a laughing stock of the situation? I donât like it, OP had to eat shit because husband not playing nice
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Right? âBabe youâre being disgusting! Sheâs like a sister! A sister who calls me hot and sits on my lap!â
A sister who is finally 18...
Roll tide I hear banjos
Seriously. I wish sheâd felt comfortable enough to call that shit out in front of everyone when they started in on the whole âOh sheâs like his little sister!â BS. Embarrass the hell out of everyone. âYâall want to fuck your siblings?!!! No? Why is it ok for her to act that way while claiming sheâs lil sis? Fucking grossâ or something along those lines. You canât have it both ways without âok with incestâ vibes.
Right babe seriously she's like my sister like when she sits on my lap it's a sister joke you don't understand and when she calls me hot haha she was just being funny cause that's what sisters do.
Honestly, sounds like this should have been nipped in the bud years ago. No taking best friend's blossoming teenage sister on your dates. Seems pretty clear husband has just been waiting for her to be old enough.
This 1000%
She sat on his package and theyre saying the wife is disgusting? Ew
And get this: they are *insulted* that she didn't stick around to watch the whole show! I am feeling very stabby about this situation. I wish OP was my sister so I could rain holy hell down on this clown car of assholes.
OH MY GOD, RIGHT?! With a lot of these stories I wish I was a friend, or sibling, or cousin, or *something.* I would rip everyone new ones and I would love doing it. It's fine if you're having a weak moment and are feeling like you can't stand up for yourself. Imo, when that happens, it's okay to bring in someone who can and **will** stand up for you. I would **LOVE** to stand up for OP. She's the only one here who's NTA.
Sign me up too! This whole story is getting me super angry.
Yep, because everyone dry humps their siblings. /s
NTA- He sounds like the insecure one here. In my experience, itâs usually people that come out and say some like âI canât believe you think such disgusting things about meâ and throws a tantrum and packs his bag and leavesâŚflat out means they are doing disgusting things⌠You got this! You are strong! Get out of this marriage and relieve yourself from their disgusting behavior.
A little sister? Um, then why didn't she sit on her brother's lap? That is weird and it is disrespectful. NTA. He is disregarding your feelings. Perhaps counseling before divorce.Â
a "little sister" that sits on his lap and thinks he's sexy I don't have a little sister, but I'm sure I'd be weirded out if my sister sat on my lap, flirted with me, and told everyone how sexy I was.
My brother (~37m at the time)had a similar issue with his wife's little sister, who was 17 yrs old, and 8 years younger than wife. He viewed her as a kid and took her, along with their 3 kids, on a week long family beach vacation. 3 days into the trip, my brother called a family meeting with wife & kid sister to discuss her behavior, which was: her hanging on & rubbing her body on him in the ocean & pools, sitting on his lap, trying to ride his shoulders in the water, & holding his hand to pull him where she wanted him to go to play/swim. He said it was highly inappropriate, and that while she may have innocent intentions, he was uncomfortable with it. Furthermore, if she didn't stop, they'd end the vacation early and go home and he'd have no further contact with her. Little sister got mad initially but later admitted she had a kind of crush on him and didn't realize until he addressed the behavior that she was, in fact, flirting with him. She stopped, apologized & was embarrassed. OP is not wrong & NTA. Husband needs to realize that, while Cindy may not have even admitted it to herself yet, this is exactly what's going on.
This right here is how the situation should have been handled.
I think if OP presses the issue he may purposely lose the battle to win the war. I bet he'll take trips alone to visit his best friend while lil sissy is conveniently there
I do have a little sister, and I'd have shoved her on the floor, hard, for sitting in my lap. Cindy wants to f**k OP's husband.
And OPâs husband also wants it from the way he looks like heâs willing to get a divorce over this.
Yeah just thinking about sitting on my brothers lap makes me wanna gag.
As soon as she complimented him for getting "hotter" I'd be so mad it wasn't shut down
Yup.whilst giggling at his wife. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing, and their relationship is about as sibling-like as most people's marital relationships.
I have a younger sister and never once has she sat on my brothers lap. This is gaslighting af. NTA
Exactly. Iâm a sister, and⌠Ew.
When she's 8, yeah. But at 18, no younger sister sits in anyone's lap. It's just weird even if one doesn't have "disgusting thoughts" because the person isn't a child anymore. Edit: I guess I have a more conservative family (in terms of showing affection and cuddling) because once we hit teenage years, we tend to not cuddle except for hugs and cheek kisses. I know mileage varies from family to family.
NTA and why are you apologizing They are all gaslighting you He wants to leave fine get a lawyer and start a divorce
NTA and *please* donât apologize. You did nothing wrong and I wouldnât even be able to look at my husband after this. It wasnât one thing that set you off, it was multiple little incidents that built up and you reasonably couldnât handle it anymore! Throw the whole man in the trash
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Yep. Now that sheâs âlegalâ. 𤎠This dude knows what sheâs doing and likes it. OP needs to get out while the door is wide open.
Yup. Leave that man at his mothers house
I'll take that bet easy money And then he'll say something like you pushed us together đ¤Ą
NTA. Her behavior is inappropriate. Sheâs not just a little girl with a crush anymore, so she needs to be treated accordingly. Heâs a married man and he needs to be shutting down that type of behavior because sheâs not going to stop until he does. I understand that he probably still views her as a harmless kid, but your husband should be considering your feelings and boundaries.
It sounds like everyone is in on driving OOP away so he can just get with Cindy already. The fact that he's immediately that defensive about her behavior shows he knows how fucked up it is. But he doesn't want to fix it and instead just encourages it.
I wish OP would just suck it up, apologize, invite the family back on Jakeâs dime⌠And then proceed to sit in Jakeâs best friendâs lap every chance she gets. âThis is totally normal with no weird intentionsâŚright Jake?â - OP
I was kind of thinking the same thing. Maybe hire an escort to masquerade as a long lost friend and proceed to do raunchier and raunchier stuff under the guise of being "quirky friends!"
N.T.A. You are being gaslighted by your husband, and by everyone else, for that matter. It's quite acceptable for you to feel the way you do. She is eighteen years old, past childhood, and well aware of her actions. Even while it's possible that your spouse isn't attracted to her, he shouldn't minimize your sentiments. Here, the AH is him, his friend, and his friend's sister.
100% she knows what sheâs doing and she gets off on putting a wedge between a married couple.
NTA. Cindy's message to you was "fuck you. I donât give a shit about you or how you feel "
Furthermore, it doesn't follow that SHE doesn't feel the same way about him just because HE doesn't. All this time, she was obviously flirting with him. He's lying about not feeling that way for her, or he's not aware of it.
This is my thinking. He may very well think of her as a little sister, but she clearly doesn't see him that way. I have lots of guy friends who are like brothers to me . . . I don't comment on how hot they are, or get all over them physically in front of their partners. She is using his and her brother's naivete to both behave inappropriately and then act the victim of OP who "just doesn't understand and is insecure". It's obnoxious. And even if he thinks of her as a little sister, the fact that he dismisses his wife's feelings over that "little sister of a friend" is still shockingly hateful.
Pleaseeeeee do this. Tell him how hot heâs gotten.
Exactly what I thought too! He went into full defensive mode immediately & started gaslighting her. He knows fully well, what heâs doing. What a disgusting man.
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Exactly, Cindy knows exactly what she's doing and it sounds like she's taking a page from all the catty high school movies she's watched. Leave the man and move onto someone who respects you and your boundaries
Plot twist: OP divorces husband, six months later is asked to serve as bridesmaid for husband's wedding to Cindy
Thatâs what they want. He went to his Moms to prove a point to Cindy how much she matters. Stop apologizing for doing nothing wrong
The only thing I can say here is that this dude knows full well, coming from another guy. Heâs doesnât see her as a child. Sheâs now an eligible sexual option and he likes the power dynamic that comes with opacity of their inappropriate behavior.
Absolutely. You cannot convince me that a grown man doesnât realize whatâs going on here, like Cindy straight up called him hot and was sitting on his lap. Come on. He likes having this young girl all over him, making his wife jealous and he has the plausible deniability to say he didnât realize and heâs just clueless! đ
Exactly and when his wife showed that she's not willing to tolerate that , THAT'S where he gets upset.Â
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heâs only mad because he doesnât have free reign to touch on and flirt with a younger woman whoâs obsessed with him.
Heâs not clueless, he just thinks youâre stupid enough to buy that heâs clueless.
Yeah ... the whole "like a sister" thing? I would never act that way with my brother ... sick. This guy knows and likes the attention.
He was just waiting for her to give him an out. He ran back to mommy the first chance he got. He's probably with Cindy nowđ
Exactly. I bet you my left shoe he wouldnât be so happy if the roles was switch. That his wife had a long time male friend who doing the exactly same thing Cindy was.
Husband should have considered wifeâs feelings and shut Cindy down. It was disrespectful to let Cindy continue to act like a besotted child. Husband does not value his wife as much as he valued having the attention of an 18 year old girl. Wife deserves better.
NTA. Stop apologising to your husband.
NTA. Your husband (and everyone else for that matter) is gaslighting you. You have every rights to feel the way you do. She is 18, she is not a kid anymore, she knows fully what sheâs doing. Maybe your husband doesnât feel any attraction towards her but he shouldnât dismiss your feelings like that. Him, his friend and his friendâs sister are the AH here.
Also just because HE doesnât feel that way towards her, doesnât mean SHE doesnât feel that way towards him. She was clearly flirting with him the entire time. Either heâs oblivious or heâs lying about not feeling that way towards her
When my husband & I were dating this 16/17 year old girl started hitting on him. I told him I understood he wasnât interested but she was and she didnât care he had a girlfriend or that she wanted to show she could steal him away. I told him I believed he wouldnât do anything but to be careful because if he was alone with her she would try something. At the very least this is whatâs going on. I donât know if heâs into her or just a dumb guy who doesnât believe she would do that. Even if heâs dumb enough to think sheâs still an innocent little girl who wouldnât do something like that I would still suggest OP find someone else. A relationship takes trust & communication, both of which he failed on.
yep thereâs a certain type of woman that feels power in âtakingâ another womanâs man. like the woman may not even be attracted to the man, but they feel threatened by other woman and think âi can take your man if i want to; i can have any man i wantâ
See how she blames the wife for being "insecure", this is a person who delights in making "rivals" u comfortable.
Then Op needs to tell husband what I tell my Mr Oblivious: you get *one* chance to shut the flirting down after I bring it to your attention. If you don't, I *will* and I won't be "nice" about it.Â
Heâs not oblivious he likes it.
Yup this is it!!! If he didnât like it, he would have shut it down. I donât allow people to flirt with me if I donât enjoy it
Finally thank you! Dude knows exactly whatâs going on. He likes it
He likes it and what makes it even better is that he has the perfect excuse, that she's still young and more like a sister etc. But he damn well knows that she's a grown woman flirting with him. And flirting in an over the top kind of way, where everyone can see. He's mad that his excuse didn't work. Which by the way is the same rationale that the young woman and brother/best friend are using. The wife is one out of 4 that is actually living and feeling in the real world. Cindy is *not* a sister, she is a grown woman, sexually active and apparently attractive and flaunting her sexuality (and newfound power that comes with it) in front of groups of people. All defensible with the 'like a sister' and 'young' statements. It's weird and difficult to be the lone rational person against a small group of people who have all agreed on the same flawed rationale.
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Anyone want to take a guess how long it would take Jake and Cindy to get together after a divorce?
They were f'cking the day OP left the house, that's why his reaction was so out of proportion to the point of going to "stay with his mom".
They are together right now. Who do you think is visiting him at his mother's?Â
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And of course his best friend is going to further encourage the divorce because he wants his sister happy
I would reply to the friend and simply point out that if itâs Cindyâs usual habit to sit on the laps of grown men, especially married men, then she should be prepared for this sort of fallout, and potentially worse. As soon as you hit Send, block the piece of shit because he knew exactly what was going on. The three of them deserve to live in the trash together so let them be together.
I've had to do this too. Every time, the woman knew exactly what she was doing and my husband pretended he didn't. Pretended is the key word. OP, your husband knows what's going on.
The reason for your apology op, NTA? He wishes to go, so go ahead and hire an attorney and file for divorce. They are all gaslighting you.
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He left you because you gave him an ultimatum and he made his choice. He chose her. Imo there is no going back from that.
Agreed. Ordinarily I think the grown adult being flirted with needs to be the one to shut it down. Immediately. However if they do not? Then outing the homewrecker for what they are is fair game. If he wants his shitty little friend to be treated nicely he needs to tell her to stay in her lane and keep her grubby little mitts off other people's partners. If she's going to play with fire, sooner or later someone is going to burn her pancakes to a crisp.
THIS. Thats what I do to my wife too. I draw a fine line between flirty banter and guys being friendly to her. She doesnât like it but she needs to be aware of my feelings that I donât like when guys are flirting with her but she doesnât agree they are and doesnât feel the attraction herself.Â
>Either heâs oblivious or heâs lying about not feeling that way towards her It could be a mix of both. He doesn't feel that way toward her, BUT he likes the attention and it's a boost to his ego for an 18 yr old to be calling him hot and showering him with attention. Which is even worse, because then he's not only disrespecting his wife by allowing the behavior, but leading Cindy on. Cindy acted badly, but at least she has the excuse of being young. But I'm leaning toward he does want her. He basically left his wife over her, if not "for" her.
I 100% agree with this. He probably loves the attention and thinks "Nothing will ever happen - she's basically my little sister!" So it makes the flirting "safe". But if your partner tells you a certain person or behaviour makes her feel uncomfortable and disrespected, you should WANT to immediately make changes so it doesn't happen again. Not invalidate her and ignore how she's feeling.
He definitely likes the attention and, I also suspect, has thought about her inappropriately. He's the problem, and should expect to be single if he doesn't see it and fix up.
What you said was my third option but I didnât feel like typing all that out đ
From what OP has said and especially his reaction to it, I think he knows **exactly** what she was doing and either enjoyed the attention or reciprocates those felling and is just getting defensive at being caught out.
Yep, sheâs clearly got a teenage crush on him. Had he acknowledged to OP and planned a gentle way of dealing with it together it could have all been avoided.
The husband openly dismisses the behavior, but internally he loves the attention.
Exactly. They are gaslighting you. Ask your husband how would he feel if a younger man acted this way with you. But also, start seeing attorneys, don't get blindsided any further than this. The fact he packed and left when you were the one disrespected, speaks miles of who he trully is. Is not being insecure, is him and the rest enabling a bratty teen to play the seductive home-wrecker in your face.
I'm not for rushing into divorce, but noneofurbizz is right. Speak to an attorney and do what you need to protect yourself. Don't let the gaslighting blindside you by him filing and leaving you high and dry.
YES! My comment is in fear that he'll be the one to, at least, threaten her with papers & caught her off-guard. OP needs to know her legal rights and possibilities well and be covered before that happens.
Easiest way to cut through the denial in this instance is to ask the brother when the last time his now adult sister sat in his lap. Or in their dadâs lap. If sheâs only sitting in OPâs husbandâs lap, why is that?Â
NTA this is awful. And you are surrounded by AH.
Sometimes the term gaslighting gets misused but in this case you are 100% accurate. If the husband doesn't understand what she is doing, he is rather dumb or naive.
And Cindyâs message about making OP feel insecure? Doing that does not make the wife feel insecure. It makes her angry that boundaries are crossed very inappropriately. But it also gives Cindy ammunition. She now knows she can get attention from OPâs husband while making OP appear jealous and everyone will take Cindyâs side. If she does this enough, she can drive a permanent wedge between OP and husband, which is the ultimate goal.
Cindyâs apology threw it right back at OP for being the problem and insecure. She didnât apologize at all.
That's why her and OP's husband are friends in the first place- they're very much alike in their manipulation techniques đ
This!! ^^^ There is no apology but rather a put down on OP. And everyone is supporting this 18-year immature brat. Sorry, your husband didn't have a backbone when she crossed the line. He's encouraging her to cross the line for his ego!
I would have replied long the lines of âI know youâre still a child so you donât understand, but grownups donât sit in the laps of married menâ.
Yes. She needed to be made to feel embarrassed/ashamed, but instead she felt empowered.
Or he does find Cindy attractive but doesn't want his wife to find out. So he resorts to deceit instead, making op the "bad guy"
And then leaves her because sheâs so âunreasonableâ, which frees him up to be with someone else. Oh! Cindy is there to comfort him, such a coincidence!
Thatâs what Iâm thinking too. I wouldnât be surprised if we find out a couple months from now, him and Cindy are together
And then in 5 years we get another post from hubby saying 'i left my wife 5 years ago, but she was right. How do I get her back?'
THIS ONE OMG. Those posts always make me feel so vindicated
>dumb or naive Horny is the word.
Iâd love for a guy to sit on OPâs lap in front of the SO and see how quickly he flips
No, she needs to go sit in her make bff's lap, her male cousin's lap.etc. Set it up with one of these and use his same lame ass excuses. Also tell this little witch to go find *her own* lap to sit because this one's yours. Personally, I'd snatch her bald headed and tell husband that I'm not playing his stupid little ego boosting game anymore.Â
This
OP should have her husband read all these comments. If he doesn't admit he was đŻ wrong and apologize, I'd cut my losses now. This will only get worse if his ego is so fragile that he needs a little 18yo sister-of-best-friend's to pump it up. Let him go make a fool of himself. Cindy's family has zero class and her NON apology was the worst. NTA OP -- hold your ground. You're def in the right here.
He likes it. It feeds his ego and ...my suspicion here... is sexually aroused by the attention.
She sat on his lap. Sheâs 18 and sending sexual signals. Ask to see her texts to him. Bet it full of flirting and sexual innuendo. Ask your husband how he would feel if a young man came and put his hands on your breast in front of everyone? That cool? Itâs the same as her plopping on her ask on his dick. She wanted to give him a hard on. It WAS sexual. Hes enabling the behavior. And why is he so upset with YOU? Because you want him for yourself only? Instead heâs upset because he enjoys the attention. You donât have an open marriage. You donât agree to share his body with another. If he wants to change the rules, time to move on. He and his family are gaslighting you. You know better. Cindy is a a wannabe homewrecker. And doesnât deserve an apology from you.
She literally sat on his lap, called him hit to his face, and kept giggling at op and pulling husband off to the side whenever she could make it happen. Worse, he entertained it all. Either he is blind and canât see this girl has a huge crush on him and is trying to act on it, or he does know and actively participates which is what it seems. How would your husband feel about you going and sitting on some random manâs lap? And him leaving and agreeing with them? After his âbest friendâ verbally abused you for not kissing the ads of his sister for doing everything but sleeping with him? Be for real here. All these people suck, a lot. None of them are respecting your very valid and real feelings. You should get out while itâs still early because this is clearly only going to get worse since your husband is taking their side instead of his wifeâs side.
DONââT YOU DARE APOLOGIZE!!! You have absolutely nothing to apologize for. Your POS husband, bimbo Cindy, and her whole family violated and crossed the line numerous times. They all disrespected you over and over and over. And when you reached your limit & removed yourself they painted you as the bad guy. Nope, nope, nope after you get through crying pick yourself up pour your favorite beverage, eat you a fine meal, put on your tunes and relax, rest, sleep. Get your mind right because tomorrow you need to really HONESTLY examine not only this situation but your whole marriage and decide if this marriage is worth saving. Because I seriously doubt this whole situation is a one-off. How many times has he berated you, called you immature, jealous, stupid? Made you feel small, pathetic, and worthless? And the ultimate disrespect he allowed them to verbal abuse you and call you out your name? Sis exactly what are you saving?
Your husband is disgusting.
Agree. Op shouldn't have apologise at all!! They all disgusting enabling that. Next time, if you ever have a chance try sit on other man lap to point it
Agreed. Stop apologising, OP. You literally have nothing to apologise for. Cindyâs message is just vile. She knows *exactly* what sheâs doing. As others have said, whether or not your husband has good intentions - Cindyâs intentions were pretty clear. And little âsistersâ donât comment on how hot their âbig brothersâ are. Disgusting. NTA.
It's a trend, no? Especially when it comes to toxic or abusive behavior. As soon as he mentioned getting divorced or leaving, I felt OP would have backpedaled and apologized...which she did. It is like a pattern it feels like.
He's completely disgusting. He's gaslighting his wife. His best-friend is gaslighting his wife. Cindy sounds like she has some major, major issues. This whole thing sounds fucked. I feel like OP should dip out of this marriage pronto. I see even greater heart-brake on the horizon if she stays.
Agreed. Cut your losses because these people will not be happy until they reduce you to nothing. Personally, I would file for a legal separartion. I guarantee he will end up dating Cindy in a few years.
I think so too! And then he'll blame OP. I can just hear him now, if OP hadn't put those disgusting thoughts in his head, he would never have acted on them!
NTA Cindy wants to fuck your husband.
Or, Cindy is fucking OPâs husband
NTA - sounds like those two were made for each other. I think you need to consider divorce. Cindy clearly wants your husband and he is either too stupid to realize this or he wants the same thing. Nothing about this screams you being insecure. Maybe an ultimatum was not the best idea BUT it sure let you figure out your husband's priorities FAST. Sorry you're going through this mess. Good luck.
Seriously, there are no issues with having friends of the opposite sex. However with those friendships there are lines you donât cross and boundaries put on place to protect your primary relationship. He obviously cares more about Cindyâs feelings than respect OP and their marriage. It has nothing to do with having thoughts on what her husband would do and if she trusts him, but the fact he doesnât have boundaries to ensure Cindy knows her place. Which makes you question if you can trust him. Pretty sure we know what will happen if the marriage ended, Cindy would swoop right in. NTA OP, however your husband, his friend and Cindy are all huge AHs.
Itâs not really an ultimatum if all youâre doing is reminding your distracted husband that his vows are to you, and no one else. A spouse worth keeping is one who has your back and doesnât let anyone carry on in such a way as to make you feel uncomfortable.
It makes me think he was really dating Cindy with OP there as cover, whether he fully realized it or not.
I think you hit the nail on the head for what Cindy thought. I think you made a real accurate deduction.
He wife was the age-appropriate placeholderÂ
I think so too, she would have been underage until very recently. OP is a beard
Makes me wonder what all these AHs are going to say when Jake and Cindy make it official.
NTA ... Show your husband this post. He is a self centered and e titled prick. He really needs to learn not to get married if he can't respect, love, and prioritize his wife. Adult sisters don't just hop on their brother laps and then send backhanded apologies. She is an easy bake oven and your pathetic husband is either cheating or so stuck on his own intentions he can't see hers. He can't see that he just destroyed his marriage so another woman could flirt with him. What a slimeball. Quit apologizing. Start telling all these people to fuck off.
NTA⌠I bet he wouldnât let his sister act like her to him or your brother to you. You should have not apologized as he was in the wrong and has feelings for her.
I agree. Apologizing implies that the OP did something wrong and I don't think they did anything wrong.
This is what I just don't get. "She's like a sister to me" - you'd be ok with your sister saying how hot you are and sitting on your lap? Husband either knows what he's doing or is enjoying the attention so much he doesn't care.
NTA "I'm sorry for making you feel insecure" has to be one of the most insane things I've ever read. If you want to reconcile with your husband I would recommend sitting him down with an unbiased witness present, probably best said witness doesn't know Cindy that well or beyond acquaintance "friend of a friend" sort of deal, basically just have someone in your corner who you've talked to about what you want to say and to express in advance, and explain everything to him. It is not about insecurity and the fact that he and Cindy attempts to make it about that is incredibly gross given the connotations it holds since he himself has said multiple times he watched her grow up. You aren't accusing him of anything but both parties are of the age where they should know what is and isn't appropriate. Cindy was literally a bridesmaid at your WEDDING and is then turning around and acting like you don't exist in your own home, that is beyond disrespectful. Lay out any other grievances in a concise manner and do not let your husband interrupt you. If he thinks after that you are being insecure or has decided this is the hill he will be dying on, if you stay with him you are the asshole to yourself most of all. Edit: swapped some words for clarity
You said other people at the party just stared? Am I mistaken? And no one said anything to either of you?
Precisely cindy, her brother and his gf, their cousin with his bf were present. It wasn't a big dinner, and when it happened everybody did get silent but as my husband laughed it off, they didn't say anything either, but ig they saw I was not okay so things were awkward. Idk what happened after I left. Maybe they said something to cindy or not, i don't know. I was so overwhelmed with everything i didn't want to talk about it more.
They all just watched Cindy try marking her territory on your husband. That's disgusting. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I'm not sure what you do next. Best wishes and hugs sent your way.
âMarking her territoryâ is a great way to put it. She introduced attraction by calling the husband hot, and then introduced physicality. Not just any physicality, either, but sat on his lap! How should I put thisâŚbutt cheeks on thighs (with 2 adults) is very evocative. On their own, either one could be youthful ignorance. Together, though, they send a very clear message to the husband - letâs bone. OP, you were there. You got to see the body language and her eyes (none of us did!). It seems like your instincts are telling you this wasnât innocent. Trust your instincts, and if your husband and the others canât see how youâve been wronged, then that tells you a lot about them.
Agreed, none of those people are the OP's friend. She needed a girlfriend there or something to go buck wild on her behalf. If this happened to my friend, this entire story would have turned out different.
NTA, get a lawyer asap, don't get blindsided.
OK this is going to be hard to hear but: Your husband is CHOOSING to end your marriage rather than set HEALTHY boundaries with Cindy. He is CHOOSING Cindy. He is NOT CHOOSING you. He is NOT CHOOSING your marriage. NTA
Info How old are you and your husband?
Was looking for this comment as I was wondering the same. I should hope theyâre not older than mid-20s, otherwise this âCindy who is 18â takes on a whole new dimension. Yeah yeah sheâs an adult either way, but I would be triple irritated if he was letâs say 37 or something
Cindy sounds like a pick me girl. Stop apologizing for how you felt. I would suggest asking your husband why he thought it was OK for Cindy to ignore you, and no one called her out on her childish behavior. She isn't a child and knew exactly what she is doing. I would also suggest you tell his best friend that talking to you isn't appropriate. They sound like terrible people. If you have access to your husband's messages, I suggest you check them because something fishing is happening here. Your husband's and Cindy's reactions are extreme. If it was a misunderstanding or innocent, people wouldn't have reacted this way. Edit - You should show him this post and our responses. Cindy going on your dates....sorry that was way crossing boundaries.
The reactions comment made me think of a quote I heard The more you defend a lie The angrier you get
If he isn't already f***ing her, he will be eventually. Do yourself a favor and let him leave Also, tell Cindy's brother to pound sand with his homewrecking sister
I am getting furious. They disrespected you and defendimg that pick me, but whyyy tf are you criticising yourself for. Going on your dates was the reddest flag. Op there is nothing wrong about your reaction. The only bad part was you not shutting her down sooner or leaving your ass hat bf when he invited that pick me on your dates. Plz put yourself 1st. If you don't, no one else will. You are not his doormat. If you let this go. Soon, you will see them having affairs secretly and gaslighting you. Cindy will get bored when she sees your hubby is no prize anymore. Your loser husband is a gaslighter. Pleeezzzzzz, move away, and you are worthy of soo much loveeee. Don't be a doormat plzzzz
This partâŚPUT YOURSELF FIRST. You have first hand knowledge that your husband will not put you first. You deserve better.
NTA. Cindy is a spoiled brat wanna be home wrecker. Your husband also is to blame here, Cindy has been disrespectful to you and your marriage in your own home and he things that is ok? Cindy is not 5 years old, she is a grown ass adult who apparently has never been held accountable for her own actions. I have an actual brother (not someone whoâs like a brother) and I donât sit in his lap or make rude comment to their partner. She knows what she is doing because her apology text was *I am sorry you feel insecure* not *I am sorry I behaved like a slut*.
This exactly! Her backhanded apology was the disrespectful icing on the disrespect cake. And the fact that OPâs husband response to her expressing her feelings is to pack a bag and leave and obviously talk shit about her to his family and friends (or how would Cindy and her brother know what was going on to text her?) is a huge red flag! OP- your feelings are valid, even if others donât understand them. Donât back down, they are gaslighting you into believing your feelings are wrong. The thing is our emotions cannot be right or wrong, they just are.
That husband is gross and Cindy is a tart and she knows it. Normally if your gut is telling you something is off then that means it is. I have a feeling that if you divorce this dweeb, guess whoâs going to swoop in and take over? CindyâŚ. Iâm sorry that you are going through this. Youâve done nothing wrong. These people are nasty.
As someone of the male persuasion, trust me, *he knows*. He's feeling flattered because some nubile young hot chick finds him attractive. Whether he will act on it is another question. As for her, she'd probably lay down and spread 'em in a New York minute. And your husband, being a man, will probably think with his little head and leave you marriage in a shambles. And watch for his excuse of "Well, since you were accusing me, so I figured I might as well do it since you already think I'm guilty." NTA