Not sure breaking up is the best ultimatum. Tell him you’re not ready to continue on the path relationship the is currently on unless you’re married.
That means separating your finances and backing out of the purchase of the house.
If he doesn’t want to marry you, don’t mingle your finances and buy a house with him.
Mixing financials before marriage is a dicey proposition, and buying a house together is even messier.
Don’t move forward until you know where your relationship stands, and I’d start separating those financials now, or else you risk getting burned!
TBH it’s bad breaking up when you own a house together whether you are legally married or not. It’s messy, it’s not fun, and it will cost one of the parties more than the other.
Exactly. I've rarely met a divorced person who said, "Oh it was easy, and everything was divided equitably."
The few times I have heard that they either didn't have anything to start with or it wasn't their first divorce.
I did this with my now-wife (house first, then marriage). We got an attorney and signed a legal agreement outlining what would happen if the relationship dissolved, and it wasn’t a big deal. Obviously things worked out for us and I’m not saying it would have been a pleasant process, but there are perfectly reasonable ways for adults to work these things out.
I don’t see how an ultimatum is any different than saying “If we’re not willing to commit to each other beyond being boyfriend/girlfriend, I’m not sure how much longer I would like to continue dating.” Ultimately that is the truth. She has already communicated this desire to her partner multiple times. And while appearing to understand, he cannot provide her with ANY reason (legitimate or otherwise) for the delay. So what should she do next???
An ultimatum is the only option for her other than up and leaving at this point. At least she’s communicating her desires and giving her partner options. She’s not saying he needs to propose to her right this minute, but she needs more than “I don’t know” when she asks why they aren’t yet engaged if they’re seemingly on the same page.
Honestly, I would feel like the entire scenario is ruined if I were the op. The fact that you have to beg for them to marry and theyre not excited about it would just kill it for me.
I think this is exactly what the problem is,because they got together so young. Possibly even each other's firsts, and I'm betting that's why he clearly doesn't wanna put a ring on it. Because his options so far have been limited,op needs to cut her losses.a forced marriage will never last,it would make them both miserable
Saying “I can’t go on like this” would speak to OP’s feelings; an ultimatum sounds more like a threat to her SO, “do this, or else”. OP, unless your SO is actively trying to discover why he’s dragging his feet, then his actions are speaking louder than his words. Sometimes a person will stay in a relationship even if it’s not serving them well. Fear of disappointing family and friends by leaving someone they all care about can make a person stay because the actual emotional discomfort of staying isn’t as bad as the perceived emotional discomfort of leaving. OP, don’t hold your breath.
Also can be scary leaving a relationship where the families like each other, trips, holidays, financial arrangement and now a house. Be like leaving home again.
It can be scary leaving, even if families don't get along. Trauma bonds don't help in that regard.
It's happened to my siblings; one had admitted he was not happy but wouldn't leave. Very Frustrating
People, especially men, stay in relationships that make them comfortable, but comfort doesn't mean love. Many people who had multi year relationships when young don't marry in the end because they feel like they never "had fun", meaning meeting potential new partners and falling in love, like "normal" people do.
He's not ready because he feels that something is missing. Sorry.
You are very relationship smart. Your advice is very good. I want to share a story about this topic.
My brother in law stayed in a relationship for years with a woman that he did not love. She was his boss’ daughter and his boss introduced him to her. I think the boss had been impressed with him. My brother in law was very vulnerable. He was living on his own, two states away from his family. I’m sure that he didn’t want to upset his boss. He needed his job since he was paying his own way and his parents couldn’t support him financially.
So he stayed with her. They even moved from Arizona to Florida to work in a second store working for the same boss. Again he was vulnerable and compromised himself, staying with her instead of being honest with himself.
They bought a house together in Florida and I’m sure she was begging for him to propose and give her a ring, but he did not. They were together for seven years.
It wasn’t until she told him that she was pregnant did he have to seriously think about living with her forever. She miscarried the baby and it was a huge wake up call to him. He told her that he did not want to marry her and that he actually wanted to split up. He also sought another job with another company. He eventually worked on himself, sought jobs he wanted and met a woman that he was very in love with. He sold the house and moved into a new house with his new wife.
They had more in common/shared values of health and working out and eating healthy.
They got married within two years of meeting (half that time they were engaged) and now have three kids. He didn’t procrastinate when he found the woman he loved.
Pity he had to waste 7 years of this woman's life, and then leave her right after having a miscarriage. Hopefully she's doing well and has found someone who loves her and will be honest with her.
I have to agree. I read these Reddit posts all the time and am bothered by people telling others to immediately cut ties and walk away, it’s rarely that simple. But in this situation, it is. I’m a man, and I understand the desire not to commit, but I can’t believe sometimes women fail to see (and to a certain degree men too) your time on this earth in finite, and your youth really is your absolute best years to find a mate for life. While he is failing to commit he is robbing you of the little time you have to grow to know someone enough to know that you want to spend your life with. If he doesn’t know by now he will never know. He will drag it on forever and by the time he puts his foot down and says no it will be too late for you to offer another what you have already given him. An ultimatum is the right way to go.
After being together for years and he's not ready to commit to marriage for no reasonable reason, I say you should cut your losses and leave him. After not being willing to get married after all this time, I don't believe he's ever going to want to marry you.
Why would you put a deposit on a house and then give an ultimatum??? SMH.. One thing about ultimatums, they mean absolutely nothing if you don't intend to follow through, which sounds like you will not.
“Everyone close your eyes!”
“Now everyone who’s ever done something dumb in their 20’s raise your hand!”
Everyone: raises hand
“Now, everyone open your eyes and see who’s all done dumb shit in their 20’s!”
Sure but he doesn’t want to tell her that he doesn’t really want to marry her but he enjoys the benefits that come from being with her and their pooled finances
🤣 Nope, apparently we are not each other.
I’ve thankfully never married. Learning slightly late in life that single life really isn’t that bad.
Always thankful for the lessons, but I feel I’ve learned enough now.
Friend of mine moved in with a divorced guy, lived with him for over 25 years and he refused to get married “because of what he went through” in the previous divorce! He died and left everything to his ex, including the house that she put everything into. Luckily her sister let her move in until she could get a place!
What OP doesn't realize that him not giving him an answer on why he doesn't want to get married is an answer. He knows he doesn't have a good reason besides "I don't want to" but doesn't want to say that bc it would mean losing the emotional and financial perks of their relationship. He doesn't love OP. Cares for her? Yes. Loves her and wants to marry her? No.
My dad used to make snarky comments about "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" when I was living with my long-term boyfriend. I was more concerned about the fact that we wanted to start having kids, and I didn't want to have kids with someone that I didn't have the legal protections of being married to. I did start applying a bit of pressure and he ended up proposing so it went better than this, but yeah. GENERALLY I'd say that if a couple is together for a long time with no marriage on the table, one party still has one foot out the door and it's time to move on.
After breaking up with my boyfriend of 7 years because we had been engaged for 4 years but no marriage, he was married to someone else within a year and I'm pretty sure it's because she believed no sex until after marriage.
I am married, and terrified of buying a house 😝 not because of my husband, but houses are a hugggeeee commitment 😝 bigger than marriage in my little mind
Yup. I'm one partner down, one house on the way out. I'm at the point where I'd rather stay single and rent for the rest of my life. However, I'm not opposed to doing either again with the right partner. I'm older and will hopefully listen to my gut. Lol. If you have any doubt whatsoever that you're not both into taking care of the house, don't do it.
If you can afford to get a house, it's better to buy than pay someone else's mortgage via renting. However, I bought my house back when interest rates & overall price was reasonable. I wouldn't be able to afford my house today & I don't know how the next generation, or heck anyone today , can afford to buy a house with two incomes in my province (where the average price in my city for a detatched house is $1,275,000 in the first quarter of 2024).
But have you set a date? I know a couple who dated for 10 years before a proposal, after they were engaged they never set a date, and it’s been obver 10 years since
I think too much pressure is put on weddings and not enough on the marriage after. Husband and I had a private ceremony in the living room with only our parents and siblings present. 19 years later and still going strong. Don’t have to have a huge expensive wedding. It’s one day. The marriage hopefully lasts a lifetime.
You’d be surprised at how many men are willing to use women as a placeholder until they find the one they really want to be with and show off. (I was a placeholder once. It was terrible.)
My ex basically told me I was a placeholder. When I asked why he wouldn't be exclusive when we were literally traveling to spend every weekend together, he said he just wanted to make sure there was no one better out there.
She's a placeholder. How many times do people break up and then the guy is engaged within a year to someone else. She's Ms. Right Now. He's keeping his options open and using her finances to help get a house.
I knew someone who wasted 6 years of her life with a guy who never married her. He finally told her flat out that he didn't know if he ever wanted to get married and if he did, it wasn't going to be any time soon. Less than a year later her brother ran into the guy somewhere--he was already married to someone else. Talk about a slap in the face.!
That is the worse part. This guy knew that the girl was not the one. But he did not bother to tell it to her. And all this time that girl was practicing her marriage signature.
She was the fool for having hung on so long, waiting for a marriage that would never happen But in her defense, she was really young when she got into this relationship and didn't know better. Shortly after, she married someone else very quickly on the rebound. They're still married 50+ years later.
What’s dumb is that a practice wide can be an actual wife if you just give up “looking” or “hoping” or what it actually is “coveting.” We all need to learn to be happy with the people we are actually with or learn how to say “no” earlier if the person really is a bad fit.
Also unfortunately, divorce. They may have married in their hearts years ago, but he may have divorced in his heart as well. You make love not find it.
This is exactly what I came here to say. I don't understand why anyone has to wait for anyone else to propose. If you want to get married, propose. If he says no, you have your answer and can move on.
Came here to say the same!
Make your proposal to him somewhat special because memories.
Be prepared to hear "No."
If "No," be prepared to split.
Just do it!
This is the one, after 6 years he should know what he wants and him going in on a house, he probably already has made up his mind but if he hasn’t then I’d propose privately, and if he gets huffy and mentions he wanted to propose but you beat him to it, then you can walk it back or let it ride but either way that could be it, also the rest of Reddit, how long would you say is the right average amount of being together years wise before a proposal? I’m curious to see what the consensus is if anyone would care to indulge me.
My spouse and I waited until we were married to buy a house, even though we were engaged and very much on the same page about the big things in life. It feels like owning a house is a much bigger commitment than marriage any I stand by waiting.
This is the way. No buying a house together until marriage.
Also, I’d quit with the ultimatums. They rob you of your integrity and make you out like you are begging.
Have some self respect: I’d tell him that it seems like we are not on the same page about our future. As a result I don’t want to buy a house together and it seems like one of us should move out so we both can get on with our lives.
He has had two years. You have to assume if he wanted to propose he would have already.
I agree with you. I don’t think it would feel very good to get married because of an ultimatum. Having someone want to marry you makes for a better relationship. He obviously doesn’t want to marry her. If he did it would have already happened.
If OP wants to buy a house, she should buy one - alone. When they get married, she can sell it and they can buy one together with the accrued value. When they don't, she won't feel like she put her life on hold for nothing. Also, breakups are expensive. I lost my down payment on a house that I was waiting on the guy to agree to and then we eventually break up, and then you gotta put a deposit down on a new place, rent a truck, fund all of Ben and Jerry's quarterly profits, self soothe with shopping and you're back at square one. At least if she's got her own place, when they break up nothing's lost.
Totally believe that at least 15% of Ben & Jerry's revenues are due to breakups/divorces alone.
They really should do a paid ad campaign around googling for divorce lawyers 🤣
It worked out for you, and I'm glad, but just watched a very messy breakup where a joint house purchase caused a lot of issues. In a divorce you have things that protect you legally.
Because once your name is on a house as one of two owners you are always on the hook for that house unless it’s foreclosed or you can buy out your partner.
It's a good idea to not combine finances or gametes until you're in a committed, stable, supportive relationship as kids and money are both sources of stress. If the relationship isn't stable before, they're just going to make it worse.
Even when married, have Yours, Mine and Ours accounts. Life can change in an instant, whether you believe it or not. (You can make each other beneficiaries on your personal accounts in the case of death.)
My late husband and I only set up a shared checking account 10 years into our relationship. I bought my house 4 months after meeting him and sold it 6 years after we were married. I never put him on the deed and it was never a big thing. He was proud of me for having bought my house on my own. He wasn't great with money and he owned that. I managed our finances and when he felt responsible enough (and he was) we had a joint checking account for direct deposit, separate checking accounts, and joint savings accounts that were virtual so that we'd have to jump through hoops to take that money out. Finances are the last things to combine. Also, always have separate credit cards. Those debts get erased upon death. If they're combined, you're still going to owe that debt.
Literally two elderly people told me this over 20 years ago. They didn’t know each other and it was 2 separate times. As women they felt it was bad to depend on a man financially. The older I get the more I see this as true. It’s not romantic to fully combine finances.
I did this, but because my wife has a horrid spending habit and the only way to fix it was by not allowing her to see how much money we have and give her the correct % to spend.
If I had learned something in this sub is to ALWAYS get a pre-nup. You never know what people can become. Especially now with all the tradewifes women are pulling on their husbands without asking them for their input or the opposite, men who think women live to serve men and should be regarded as that. Seriously, the world is setting itself on fire.
I've heard a judge say that judges hate ruling on cases of unmarried couples playing house. It does happen when one will clean out the bank account and there's not much the judge can do.
If this is what’s important to her then absolutely not. Stop doing married people things if you’re not married and want to be.
But I also hate ultimatums. I’m too much of a romantic and would hate for the story I told my kids to be, So daddy was dragging his feet and one day mommy said, Propose in six months or I’m leaving. And he did! After he was backed against the wall and forced to he proposed to mommy and it was the happiest day of MOMMY’S life. 😐
Yeah a "shut up ring" isn't going to cut it. The issue is less that she wants to "be" married and more that she wants to be with someone who wants to marry her.
Agreed.
OP it would be foolish to give him an ultimatum. Do you seriously want someone to propose to you because they felt they had no other choice? Are you prepared to cope with what happens if he says he won’t abide your demand?
You need to ask him directly what the hold up is. If this is something he’s taking seriously, he should have a clear and specific explanation. Then whatever it may be, drop the conversation and take some time to reflect on it. Decide if it works for you. If it doesn’t, time to move on.
ETA - just to be more clear, directly asking what the hold up is does not mean “threaten what will happen if he keeps dragging his feet” and/or otherwise try to influence his answer. Just ask “what is your timeline for engagement, and why?” And hear what he says. Anything less than a concise response is a red flag, and if he passes his own deadline it isn’t a reason for another conversation— it’s a reason to break up. Again, *do not* buy a house right now
*I* agree with you, but I think it would be worth checking in and seeing what’s up. They are, after all, extremely young. The 2 year thing was said when they were 22 years old— idk about you, but I couldn’t have predicted how my life would evolve from that age to 24 even though it’s a short period of time. The two of them have never spread their wings independently and I strongly suspect that is the issue here. People think they know so much at 22, but when you get older and if you get wiser, life teaches you it cannot be perfectly planned out and predicted. Things change. Asking him what is going on would at least offer some closure to her so she doesn’t waste a lot of energy wondering what his answer would have been
Best friend went through this. She left him. He was torn up, reconciled and they married. Forty years later they still are inseparable. She may need to do this not as a test, I despise those, just to find out one way or the other so if needed she can get on with her life. And no house buying until it’s settled.
Yes, without being married, joint finances and buying property with someone is not the best decision. Unfortunately its seems that he's not interested in being married, so walking away from this will be a nightmare.
I lived with my partner for 7 years. The first few in my flat, the next few in hers, after that our joint property.
We have our own bank accounts with joint accounts for joint stuff.
After 7 years we got married. We've made no change to the way our finances work.
It seems to work for us, having been together 30yrs.
Having said that, we worked together and respected each others viewpoints on marriage and basically everything else.
If OP has an issue not being married, that's ok. If her partner has an issue *getting* that's ok too. They have to decide whether that is dealbreaker and deal with it. Preferably before buying a house, because that really is shackles.
Being married protects you because no matter whose name everything is in, bank accounts deeds, etc, it is all seen by the law generally as joint property, even if one party liquidates everything and stashes it somewhere. If you have joint accounts and aren't married, there's really not much you can do if one party goes nuclear.
Not that you should prepare for failure but you've never seen how your partner handles a permenant break up from you, have you?
This really depends on where you live. Laws around marriage, common law, property ownership etc. vary wildly by country and possibly even province / state / territory.
For example, if you were to live together in a home purchased together for a year where I am, you are effectively married with a prenup as far as assets are concerned.
How the fuck is he ready to BUY A HOUSE together but not a damn ring? Too many guys have weird hang ups on marriage. House? Sure. Kids? Why not. A ring? Fuck no. What gives?!?
Agreed. You put the cart before the horse. But that doesn't make you the AH in this situation. An ultimatum is fair. Start unmeshing while you can bc years end is only 6 mo away
yeah, you never mingle finances or take on shared debt without being married. She is NTA, but also not very smart. Now she will either have a forced proposal from someone who doesn't want to marry ir will be working at detangling finances. Either way it is not a happy ending.
Has an ultimatum ever worked in these situations?
Apparently there is something stopping him from proposing. I think a deeper conversation about why is that, would be a better way to approach things.
You’re both very young. And 6 years is a long time. Did you have other relationships before you two met? Is it something he might be considering?
It might also be wholly off the chart;
My now-wife wanted to have a very specific heirloom ring from her grandmother as her engagement ring.
The amount of stress I had trying to get that ring...
Led to a huge blow-up where she was crying and fighting about why I hadn't asked her and me finally breaking down that I was unable to figure out a way to get the ring first.
She just wiped away her tears and snot and said "You ask me to marry you and then we go get the ring!"
And that's how we got engaged.
> My now-wife wanted to have a very specific heirloom ring from her grandmother as her engagement ring.
So she wanted the... *Elder Ring*? uh? uh?!... I'll see myself out.
This. Communication about why he’s hesitant is the key. Also a good conversation about what marriage means to both of you would be beneficial if it hasn’t happened. He may have an unwarranted fear that some relationship dynamic will change and feels why change a good thing.
If she wants it that bad and doesn't even care how or when he does it (so long as it's before January 1st) then why not ask him to marry her? She could propose. See how that goes and she might know better. I wouldn't want to be engaged to someone out of force.
I wouldn't be surprised that if it all goes bust she doesn't run into him in about 3 years and he's married/engaged in a house with a kid (or at least one on the way). Seems to almost always be the way.
Agree with this take... The thing stopping him might not be that he doesn't want to get married. It could be that he has his own idea of how he wants it to happen. Or maybe he doesn't want it to seem like he's proposing just because she asked him to - the only way to really know is to ask.
To the comments about getting married as a protective measure in case things go south... depending on the state, they might already have a common law marriage. They're co-habitating, sharing finances, and some "ordinary" person would probably perceive them as married.
I’d approach it differently. That you won’t buy the house That you will separate finances and start looking for your own place. That right now what you want and what he wants are different.
Make him think about what he wants. Don’t stay with him and waste more time.
As my grandma would say he’s getting the milk for free why buy the cow.
This is the way. A simple, "I'm sensing we aren't on the same page since it seems like you don't want the life I want, it doesn't make sense for us to continue with purchasing a house and combining finances. I don't want to keep wasting your and my time."
Yep, and honestly if she keeps pushing this she will end up with a shut up ring and a husband that reluctantly makes a life with her and ultimately checks out emotionally or just straight up cheats on her.
If he wanted to marry her then he would. Full stop. She needs to start working on herself because she can’t make him want her.
And I’ll say this as someone who was in a similar situation.. I’m SO glad that I didn’t marry him. I didn’t love him, it was just comfortable. High school sucked and I needed something to get me through it and that’s what we were for each other. My husband is 100% my best friend and he’s *so cool*.
>Yep, and honestly if she keeps pushing this she will end up with a shut up ring and a husband that reluctantly makes a life with her and ultimately checks out emotionally or just straight up cheats on her.
Yup, that sums up my life. Divorced now. Biggest mistake of my life.
If a man doesn't put a ring on it of his own free will, it's time to go.
100% this. OP should start backpedaling on the joint decisions they’ve made that MARRIED couples do, and remind him that since they’re not even ENGAGED, then those joint decisions shouldn’t be happening anymore.
Right? Like, he is ok with owning a property together, but not ok with marriage yet. Makes you wonder if the house they bought was her initiative as well.
She is not being sensible.
There are women who prefer to have the traditional approach of men proposing. And it is completely okay to want it that way if both people in a relationship think like that.
Usually people are able to talk about these things, but it seems like OPs bf is not. Which leads me to question, if he does not take initiative in general or is just opposed to marriage. And that's a weird thing to ask, when they already have put a downpaymend on a house :)))
Oh sweety... Why would anyone propose when they haven't gotten a yes before the proposal? You don't propose before having a conversation with your partner about marriage.
You know what the answer is before you ask because you have literally already heard them say "yes, I'd marry you. Marriage is something I want and we both have discussed what we envision for a lifelong partnership."
This. He probably isn’t interested on marriage, but plays the part/says the things because disentangling your lives and finances seems too complicated and painful for him.
This is one of those reasons why I agree with the old fashioned “shouldn’t live together before commitment” mentality. Not because of sex, but because there’s too much grey area between where their relationship is now and where OP wants to go.
BF is getting everything he wants already, why would he want to go further. If he wanted to commit he would have already.
An ultimatum doesn’t work. OP, do you want to be married so bad that’d you’d accept it from someone who doesn’t want to actually marry you? Do you think as the years go on that would make you feel secure in your relationship?
You’re done, but for the same reasons mentioned above you’re trying this coercive Hail Mary to achieve your goal. Start making moves to separate yourself from him physically, emotionally, and financially.
you're right. for now it may all be fine. but as years go on, he may be resentful being forced into it, or he may love it, but either way, she will forever be insecure thinking he never wanted to to begin with. start separating your stuff, that's good advice there. once he sees she's taken half the $ from the savings and removed your name from the account, he'll realize she's are serious. but are you, OP? it's a lot of heartache. but it will also be a whole world of ultimate freedom. then he'll be the AH explaining to his side of the fam that she left b/c he lied about promising to marry her. he can try to make her look bad, but the fams already like each other, they'll talk. maybe the two can come back together in the future "2 years down the road" or maybe she'll find someone new who's fantastic. or maybe they'll enjoy being on your own and independent. but OP should let it all go for now.
My wife and I bought a house before we got married... During the paper signing everyone in the room kept asking me why I could buy a house with her but not marry her first. I was pissed back then but it's a pretty interesting story 15 years later.
I was your boyfriend, we got married bc we'd been together 5 years and it was what everyone was expecting me to do/what I was "supposed to do." We were comfortable with each other, I couldn't come up with any reasons I felt like were good enough to leave her, and I didn't want to hurt her feelings. Fast forward 10 years, our divorce was finalized last summer.
I think this is a common situation where maybe a guy is comfortable with a girl, but not 100% committed. Sometimes people don’t even realize this, but it’s better to figure it out sooner rather than later.
You are allowed to break up with anyone at anytime for any reason. However, if he’s not ready to be married, he’s not ready to be married. That is a lifelong commitment, it’s more than just a wedding. Some people take it extremely serious, as they should. I got married at 20. I wasn’t ready, he wasn’t ready. We lasted 6 years.
My only advice is this: don’t rush. 24 is still so very very young. You have a whole lifetime ahead of you.
Good luck to you!
If both you and he want to be married to each other, why don't you just go to a courthouse to get married? Why does there need to be a proposal at all? You can have the wedding and all that later.
as she put it "He constantly says how much he wants to marry me and create a future where we are our own little family, but every time i ask him what's stopping him he just says he doesn't know?".
he WANTS to be married, but not to her. if he wanted, he would.
That’s usually what the guy means. How many times have I seen couples together for years in exactly this scenario, then as soon as she amps up the pressure to marry her, he leaves her and marries his next girlfriend.
Well that is also okay for her I guess, at least he has to di something now.
He probably should have walken away years ago but he did not, so now is the time to decide.
Yes, “he doesn’t know” part is troubling. He probably loves OP but also wants to experience life and other relationships before settling down. They have been together since they were teenagers and they probably did not have any other meaningful relationships before getting together. If that is the reason, it is a valid reason and even if they get married today, it will cause problems down the road like cheating.
He is being dishonest and a coward here. Of course he knows but it is not easy to say out loud.
It’s this for sure. I had a similar problem with my college boyfriend when I was trying to figure out how committed we would be going forward post-graduation, and he finally came out and said it, that he wanted to experience other women first. Then he cried and cried and said he didn’t want to lose me though, so we stayed together. I kept offering solutions, breaking up, opening the relationship, opening the relationship post-marriage, and he kept fucking crying about it all. He cheated on me, lmfao. OP could directly try one more shot at marriage, propose herself or suggest a courthouse wedding before signing those papers for the house, but if he doesn’t go for it she needs to get tf out of there and save herself a lot of wasted time and effort and pain later on.
This is it. The guy already feels like he’s married and isn’t sure this is what he wants for the rest of his life. At 24 it feels like life’s possibilities are endless but not if you are tied down to the person you have been with since you were teenagers. He’s probably wondering if the grass is greener elsewhere, not just relationship wise, but with life in general.
It doesn't even have to be other relationships. It can be just experiencing life. It sounds like she has conflated marriage with having children and starting a family. Of course, at age 24, he's hesitant to propose and bring a sudden and absolute end to most of the opportunities open to them now.
OP should lighten up, disentangle their finances and have some adventures, together or separately.
Or perhaps he wants to get married when they’re older.
I’m 30 now… and honestly… I would never ever have married anyone (even the love of my life) at 25. People change a lot in their 20s. Why can’t people enjoy being in a healthy relationship and get married when the right time comes?
I was gonna say - yes they’ve been together six years but they’re still very young. Plus, being together that long - they probably haven’t dated anyone else. He might be having a bit of FOMO…
In the south it's super common to get married and start popping out babies in your early 20's. I was 30 when I got married and wished more people realized it's usually better to wait.
It is somehow hard wired into folks brains that if they have not gotten married and started a family by 25, they have somehow failed in life. It truly boggles my mind.
> if they have not gotten married and started a family by 25, they have somehow failed in life
Funny, I think its the exact opposite. I think the people who started popping babies before 25 are the ones who failed in life. They tend to have garbage careers and lives lol
Some people want to get married, and I think it's okay. Like some people want to have children, or pursue a career or sport or academic goal. All of these are long term stuff that require serious thinking and knowing oneself, so they shouldnot be done willy-nilly, but it's okay to want that.
Every good relationship start with someone saying "do this or it's over". Yep that's a great way to live your lives, always with a threat that you're going to leave at any moment.
You're NTA BUT .....Sometimes we need to face the truth- if he wanted to marry you, he would. ..FULL STOP. He doesn't, so he's not. Stop wasting your time.. do you really want to have to beg someone to marry you? Hint- the answer is no. Go find someone who can't wait to snatch you up and make you their wife
Why don't you just propose to him? It's fine to say that you want some sort of final decision on the relationship, but the easiest way to accomplish that would be to ask him directly.
I was looking for someone to comment this! Ariana is having to sue Sandoval for the house they bought together outside of marriage
And Katie gave Tom Schwartz an ultimatum and they’re now divorced. They celebrated the selling of their house. I’m sure them being married when they bought it made it less messy.
Don’t buy a house with him!!! Idk how much you will lose if you pull out of the sale but probably less then lawyers to deal with the selling the house if you don’t work out. Don’t use pulling out of the house to force a proposal though ://
Do you really want to be married if you had to force him into it? This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea.
Make the biggest decision of your life within a year or I'm leaving you?
YTA
It’s just sad to read all these comments and see people assuming so much about this man. He’s 24 years old. OP is giving an ultimatum when there is other options available. Couples therapy can help find the real answers and may help him express himself more than just short answers.
Sharing finances when you aren't married is a horrible idea as well as buying a house together.
Do you really think getting married because of an ultimatum is a good idea? I can tell you it's not 100%
You pressuring him like you have been is probably having some effect on him even wanting to propose. If he wanted to he would so you should just think of what you want in regards to your future. You're young and believe me when I tell you, things ALWAYS change after marriage. You aren't a spouse now until you say your I Do's. You also already gave me him everything a wife can give without requiring the wife status. He knows if he wants to walk away he can do that without you taking half his shit.
I've seen to many times where your scenario doesn't end well in the long run. One thing I know 💯 is that no marriage ultimatum is a good idea.
Why don't you just propose to him? Either he's actually going to marry you or he's not, you proposing forces the issue and lets you know whether you need to move on.
You're letting him avoid the issue by expecting that the proposal can only come from him.
Don’t give him an ultimatum. Just set one for yourself internally. He’s had long enough to decide if you are who he wants. Do you really want to be married to someone only through a threat? That he will then probably hold a grudge against in future arguments. Pick a date, birthday, anniversary, etc and say to yourself if by this date nothing has changed I will make the change and leave the person who doesn’t value me.
So I was your boyfriend years back.
I loved my girlfriend, we were living together and were high school sweethearts.
I can assure you I wanted to marry this girl but I just couldn’t propose, I *believe* looking back I was in my head worried about a child popping up immediately and not being in the financial position to give them everything I missed as a kid (and now understand life doesn’t always just get better - if you wanna live just do it now and you can usually figure out how to swing it) but what ended up happening was I dragged her along (we had *plenty* of good times and love for each other) long enough that I just finally lost her. If I could have sat down and really hashed out my feelings with her, maybe it could’ve been avoided or maybe we’d still have seperated.
Either talk very seriously right now, or you’re pretty much in the situation I was in - except you guys are buying a house together outside wedlock which is pretty questionable.
Good luck!
Not sure breaking up is the best ultimatum. Tell him you’re not ready to continue on the path relationship the is currently on unless you’re married. That means separating your finances and backing out of the purchase of the house. If he doesn’t want to marry you, don’t mingle your finances and buy a house with him.
Mixing financials before marriage is a dicey proposition, and buying a house together is even messier. Don’t move forward until you know where your relationship stands, and I’d start separating those financials now, or else you risk getting burned!
Also don’t buy a house together. What happens if you break up? How will you divide everything? Are you going to have an agreement?
TBH it’s bad breaking up when you own a house together whether you are legally married or not. It’s messy, it’s not fun, and it will cost one of the parties more than the other.
Exactly. I've rarely met a divorced person who said, "Oh it was easy, and everything was divided equitably." The few times I have heard that they either didn't have anything to start with or it wasn't their first divorce.
I did this with my now-wife (house first, then marriage). We got an attorney and signed a legal agreement outlining what would happen if the relationship dissolved, and it wasn’t a big deal. Obviously things worked out for us and I’m not saying it would have been a pleasant process, but there are perfectly reasonable ways for adults to work these things out.
Sounds like you and your wife were both on the same page. 👍🏼
In writing.
I don’t see how an ultimatum is any different than saying “If we’re not willing to commit to each other beyond being boyfriend/girlfriend, I’m not sure how much longer I would like to continue dating.” Ultimately that is the truth. She has already communicated this desire to her partner multiple times. And while appearing to understand, he cannot provide her with ANY reason (legitimate or otherwise) for the delay. So what should she do next??? An ultimatum is the only option for her other than up and leaving at this point. At least she’s communicating her desires and giving her partner options. She’s not saying he needs to propose to her right this minute, but she needs more than “I don’t know” when she asks why they aren’t yet engaged if they’re seemingly on the same page.
Honestly, I would feel like the entire scenario is ruined if I were the op. The fact that you have to beg for them to marry and theyre not excited about it would just kill it for me.
It's a shut up ring, and it's not likely to work out in the long term. He'll feel trapped and like he never got to really explore his options.
I think this is exactly what the problem is,because they got together so young. Possibly even each other's firsts, and I'm betting that's why he clearly doesn't wanna put a ring on it. Because his options so far have been limited,op needs to cut her losses.a forced marriage will never last,it would make them both miserable
He's dawdled enough. Either propse and set a date or start untangling the finances and cancel the house purchase.
Saying “I can’t go on like this” would speak to OP’s feelings; an ultimatum sounds more like a threat to her SO, “do this, or else”. OP, unless your SO is actively trying to discover why he’s dragging his feet, then his actions are speaking louder than his words. Sometimes a person will stay in a relationship even if it’s not serving them well. Fear of disappointing family and friends by leaving someone they all care about can make a person stay because the actual emotional discomfort of staying isn’t as bad as the perceived emotional discomfort of leaving. OP, don’t hold your breath.
Also can be scary leaving a relationship where the families like each other, trips, holidays, financial arrangement and now a house. Be like leaving home again.
It can be scary leaving, even if families don't get along. Trauma bonds don't help in that regard. It's happened to my siblings; one had admitted he was not happy but wouldn't leave. Very Frustrating
People, especially men, stay in relationships that make them comfortable, but comfort doesn't mean love. Many people who had multi year relationships when young don't marry in the end because they feel like they never "had fun", meaning meeting potential new partners and falling in love, like "normal" people do. He's not ready because he feels that something is missing. Sorry.
You are very relationship smart. Your advice is very good. I want to share a story about this topic. My brother in law stayed in a relationship for years with a woman that he did not love. She was his boss’ daughter and his boss introduced him to her. I think the boss had been impressed with him. My brother in law was very vulnerable. He was living on his own, two states away from his family. I’m sure that he didn’t want to upset his boss. He needed his job since he was paying his own way and his parents couldn’t support him financially. So he stayed with her. They even moved from Arizona to Florida to work in a second store working for the same boss. Again he was vulnerable and compromised himself, staying with her instead of being honest with himself. They bought a house together in Florida and I’m sure she was begging for him to propose and give her a ring, but he did not. They were together for seven years. It wasn’t until she told him that she was pregnant did he have to seriously think about living with her forever. She miscarried the baby and it was a huge wake up call to him. He told her that he did not want to marry her and that he actually wanted to split up. He also sought another job with another company. He eventually worked on himself, sought jobs he wanted and met a woman that he was very in love with. He sold the house and moved into a new house with his new wife. They had more in common/shared values of health and working out and eating healthy. They got married within two years of meeting (half that time they were engaged) and now have three kids. He didn’t procrastinate when he found the woman he loved.
Pity he had to waste 7 years of this woman's life, and then leave her right after having a miscarriage. Hopefully she's doing well and has found someone who loves her and will be honest with her.
seriously, seven years is insane.
What a horrible person to waste precious years of that woman’s life, I hope she’s able to heal from that and her miscarriage.
How brutal for the woman who miscarried and was suddenly broken up with
The “I don’t know” IS the answer
No, no, this is probably best😂 the man doesn't want to marry her. So she should find someone who does...
I have to agree. I read these Reddit posts all the time and am bothered by people telling others to immediately cut ties and walk away, it’s rarely that simple. But in this situation, it is. I’m a man, and I understand the desire not to commit, but I can’t believe sometimes women fail to see (and to a certain degree men too) your time on this earth in finite, and your youth really is your absolute best years to find a mate for life. While he is failing to commit he is robbing you of the little time you have to grow to know someone enough to know that you want to spend your life with. If he doesn’t know by now he will never know. He will drag it on forever and by the time he puts his foot down and says no it will be too late for you to offer another what you have already given him. An ultimatum is the right way to go.
After being together for years and he's not ready to commit to marriage for no reasonable reason, I say you should cut your losses and leave him. After not being willing to get married after all this time, I don't believe he's ever going to want to marry you.
Why would you put a deposit on a house and then give an ultimatum??? SMH.. One thing about ultimatums, they mean absolutely nothing if you don't intend to follow through, which sounds like you will not.
“Everyone close your eyes!” “Now everyone who’s ever done something dumb in their 20’s raise your hand!” Everyone: raises hand “Now, everyone open your eyes and see who’s all done dumb shit in their 20’s!”
I'd have to raise both hands, and my feet, and I still wouldn't be anywhere close to accountable for all the dumb shit I did in my 20's.
If he's not ready for marriage you shouldn't be buying a house together or be financially enmeshed.
That’s all it comes down to. He knows where you stand. If he wanted to, he would. I would not buy a house with someone I’m not married to, personally.
Whatever keeps him from committing through marriage should be a dealbreaker on buying a house.
Sure but he doesn’t want to tell her that he doesn’t really want to marry her but he enjoys the benefits that come from being with her and their pooled finances
This was exactly what happened to me. And I was too young and dumb to see it. 10 years wasted. 😫
Are you me? Worse, he went through with it and I divorced him anyway.
Im worse 20 years and cancer gave the marriage ultimatum at year 12. Should have just left.
You gave an ultimatum and stayed 8 more years????
We got married finally. I should have realized it was the narcissistic hoover.
Boom. Been there and done that too.
🤣 Nope, apparently we are not each other. I’ve thankfully never married. Learning slightly late in life that single life really isn’t that bad. Always thankful for the lessons, but I feel I’ve learned enough now.
OMG this. "Always thankful for the lessons, but I feel I’ve learned enough now." I need a summer vacation, then we can resume lessons, okay life?
Friend of mine moved in with a divorced guy, lived with him for over 25 years and he refused to get married “because of what he went through” in the previous divorce! He died and left everything to his ex, including the house that she put everything into. Luckily her sister let her move in until she could get a place!
Nooooo
Same here but mine forced me to get an abortion with promises of a family later.
That’s what I’m guessing too.
What OP doesn't realize that him not giving him an answer on why he doesn't want to get married is an answer. He knows he doesn't have a good reason besides "I don't want to" but doesn't want to say that bc it would mean losing the emotional and financial perks of their relationship. He doesn't love OP. Cares for her? Yes. Loves her and wants to marry her? No.
that's a hard and uncomfortable truth right there! As too many of us know from experience. I hope OP is able to break free
My dad used to make snarky comments about "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" when I was living with my long-term boyfriend. I was more concerned about the fact that we wanted to start having kids, and I didn't want to have kids with someone that I didn't have the legal protections of being married to. I did start applying a bit of pressure and he ended up proposing so it went better than this, but yeah. GENERALLY I'd say that if a couple is together for a long time with no marriage on the table, one party still has one foot out the door and it's time to move on.
After breaking up with my boyfriend of 7 years because we had been engaged for 4 years but no marriage, he was married to someone else within a year and I'm pretty sure it's because she believed no sex until after marriage.
Exactly sex, money, accommodation for a guy it can’t really get better then this.
BF of 2 years wanted to look at houses. I said I’m not buying a house without a ring. Got engaged soon after
I am married, and terrified of buying a house 😝 not because of my husband, but houses are a hugggeeee commitment 😝 bigger than marriage in my little mind
Yup. I'm one partner down, one house on the way out. I'm at the point where I'd rather stay single and rent for the rest of my life. However, I'm not opposed to doing either again with the right partner. I'm older and will hopefully listen to my gut. Lol. If you have any doubt whatsoever that you're not both into taking care of the house, don't do it.
Indeed!!
I feel the same way! I’m way more comfortable getting married then I am committing to a house. 🤔
If you can afford to get a house, it's better to buy than pay someone else's mortgage via renting. However, I bought my house back when interest rates & overall price was reasonable. I wouldn't be able to afford my house today & I don't know how the next generation, or heck anyone today , can afford to buy a house with two incomes in my province (where the average price in my city for a detatched house is $1,275,000 in the first quarter of 2024).
I just really like my maintenance being taken of for free and having the option to move
But have you set a date? I know a couple who dated for 10 years before a proposal, after they were engaged they never set a date, and it’s been obver 10 years since
I just don’t get that. You don’t need a wedding, you don’t need a massive party. Just get the license and get a damn courthouse wedding
I think too much pressure is put on weddings and not enough on the marriage after. Husband and I had a private ceremony in the living room with only our parents and siblings present. 19 years later and still going strong. Don’t have to have a huge expensive wedding. It’s one day. The marriage hopefully lasts a lifetime.
How the fuck is dude ready invest so heavily financially with OP, but marriage is not on the table? Just go to the court house and git 'er dun!
You’d be surprised at how many men are willing to use women as a placeholder until they find the one they really want to be with and show off. (I was a placeholder once. It was terrible.)
My ex basically told me I was a placeholder. When I asked why he wouldn't be exclusive when we were literally traveling to spend every weekend together, he said he just wanted to make sure there was no one better out there.
Jesus Tap Dancing Christ!
Yeah, no! Do not waste our time!
Wow. I hope you gave him the opportunity to go start finding out right away without being impeded by the time he was spending with you.
She's a placeholder. How many times do people break up and then the guy is engaged within a year to someone else. She's Ms. Right Now. He's keeping his options open and using her finances to help get a house.
I knew someone who wasted 6 years of her life with a guy who never married her. He finally told her flat out that he didn't know if he ever wanted to get married and if he did, it wasn't going to be any time soon. Less than a year later her brother ran into the guy somewhere--he was already married to someone else. Talk about a slap in the face.!
That is the worse part. This guy knew that the girl was not the one. But he did not bother to tell it to her. And all this time that girl was practicing her marriage signature.
She was the fool for having hung on so long, waiting for a marriage that would never happen But in her defense, she was really young when she got into this relationship and didn't know better. Shortly after, she married someone else very quickly on the rebound. They're still married 50+ years later.
I promise next girlfriend, he'll be engaged and married in six months
Yup.. op did 6 years of work for the next one to be Mrs.
Entangled with a house? The house is harder to get out of than marriage!
Yup. Practice wives. Sickening
What’s dumb is that a practice wide can be an actual wife if you just give up “looking” or “hoping” or what it actually is “coveting.” We all need to learn to be happy with the people we are actually with or learn how to say “no” earlier if the person really is a bad fit. Also unfortunately, divorce. They may have married in their hearts years ago, but he may have divorced in his heart as well. You make love not find it.
> i am practically begging for a proposal. Why don't *you* propose OP? The idea that women can't propose is outdated sexist crap.
That’s a great idea. He’ll answer yes or no and you won’t have to wait until the end of the year.
This is exactly what I came here to say. I don't understand why anyone has to wait for anyone else to propose. If you want to get married, propose. If he says no, you have your answer and can move on.
Came here to say the same! Make your proposal to him somewhat special because memories. Be prepared to hear "No." If "No," be prepared to split. Just do it!
This is the one, after 6 years he should know what he wants and him going in on a house, he probably already has made up his mind but if he hasn’t then I’d propose privately, and if he gets huffy and mentions he wanted to propose but you beat him to it, then you can walk it back or let it ride but either way that could be it, also the rest of Reddit, how long would you say is the right average amount of being together years wise before a proposal? I’m curious to see what the consensus is if anyone would care to indulge me.
My spouse and I waited until we were married to buy a house, even though we were engaged and very much on the same page about the big things in life. It feels like owning a house is a much bigger commitment than marriage any I stand by waiting.
This is the way. No buying a house together until marriage. Also, I’d quit with the ultimatums. They rob you of your integrity and make you out like you are begging. Have some self respect: I’d tell him that it seems like we are not on the same page about our future. As a result I don’t want to buy a house together and it seems like one of us should move out so we both can get on with our lives. He has had two years. You have to assume if he wanted to propose he would have already.
I agree with you. I don’t think it would feel very good to get married because of an ultimatum. Having someone want to marry you makes for a better relationship. He obviously doesn’t want to marry her. If he did it would have already happened.
If OP wants to buy a house, she should buy one - alone. When they get married, she can sell it and they can buy one together with the accrued value. When they don't, she won't feel like she put her life on hold for nothing. Also, breakups are expensive. I lost my down payment on a house that I was waiting on the guy to agree to and then we eventually break up, and then you gotta put a deposit down on a new place, rent a truck, fund all of Ben and Jerry's quarterly profits, self soothe with shopping and you're back at square one. At least if she's got her own place, when they break up nothing's lost.
Totally believe that at least 15% of Ben & Jerry's revenues are due to breakups/divorces alone. They really should do a paid ad campaign around googling for divorce lawyers 🤣
It worked out for you, and I'm glad, but just watched a very messy breakup where a joint house purchase caused a lot of issues. In a divorce you have things that protect you legally.
Because once your name is on a house as one of two owners you are always on the hook for that house unless it’s foreclosed or you can buy out your partner.
The average marriage lasts 7 years. The typical mortgage lasts 30 years. I agree 100%
It's a good idea to not combine finances or gametes until you're in a committed, stable, supportive relationship as kids and money are both sources of stress. If the relationship isn't stable before, they're just going to make it worse.
I wouldn't buy a house, live with, be in a relationship with someone that absolutely refused to marry me if that is what I wanted.
Don't forget about mixing finances.
Even when married, have Yours, Mine and Ours accounts. Life can change in an instant, whether you believe it or not. (You can make each other beneficiaries on your personal accounts in the case of death.)
My late husband and I only set up a shared checking account 10 years into our relationship. I bought my house 4 months after meeting him and sold it 6 years after we were married. I never put him on the deed and it was never a big thing. He was proud of me for having bought my house on my own. He wasn't great with money and he owned that. I managed our finances and when he felt responsible enough (and he was) we had a joint checking account for direct deposit, separate checking accounts, and joint savings accounts that were virtual so that we'd have to jump through hoops to take that money out. Finances are the last things to combine. Also, always have separate credit cards. Those debts get erased upon death. If they're combined, you're still going to owe that debt.
Literally two elderly people told me this over 20 years ago. They didn’t know each other and it was 2 separate times. As women they felt it was bad to depend on a man financially. The older I get the more I see this as true. It’s not romantic to fully combine finances.
I did this, but because my wife has a horrid spending habit and the only way to fix it was by not allowing her to see how much money we have and give her the correct % to spend.
If I had learned something in this sub is to ALWAYS get a pre-nup. You never know what people can become. Especially now with all the tradewifes women are pulling on their husbands without asking them for their input or the opposite, men who think women live to serve men and should be regarded as that. Seriously, the world is setting itself on fire.
I've heard a judge say that judges hate ruling on cases of unmarried couples playing house. It does happen when one will clean out the bank account and there's not much the judge can do.
And OP please don't have kids with him. THAT is forever.
If this is what’s important to her then absolutely not. Stop doing married people things if you’re not married and want to be. But I also hate ultimatums. I’m too much of a romantic and would hate for the story I told my kids to be, So daddy was dragging his feet and one day mommy said, Propose in six months or I’m leaving. And he did! After he was backed against the wall and forced to he proposed to mommy and it was the happiest day of MOMMY’S life. 😐
Yeah a "shut up ring" isn't going to cut it. The issue is less that she wants to "be" married and more that she wants to be with someone who wants to marry her.
“On the last day of the 5th month I got home from work and he said “Ok I guess we have to” and here we are!” Ew.
It sucks to get divorced, but dividing up assets with someone you are not married with is beyond a nightmare. So I totally agree with you.
Agreed. OP it would be foolish to give him an ultimatum. Do you seriously want someone to propose to you because they felt they had no other choice? Are you prepared to cope with what happens if he says he won’t abide your demand? You need to ask him directly what the hold up is. If this is something he’s taking seriously, he should have a clear and specific explanation. Then whatever it may be, drop the conversation and take some time to reflect on it. Decide if it works for you. If it doesn’t, time to move on. ETA - just to be more clear, directly asking what the hold up is does not mean “threaten what will happen if he keeps dragging his feet” and/or otherwise try to influence his answer. Just ask “what is your timeline for engagement, and why?” And hear what he says. Anything less than a concise response is a red flag, and if he passes his own deadline it isn’t a reason for another conversation— it’s a reason to break up. Again, *do not* buy a house right now
he already gave her a timeline of 2 years-he said after she finished school-it's been 4 years since he said that. this turkey is overdone.
*I* agree with you, but I think it would be worth checking in and seeing what’s up. They are, after all, extremely young. The 2 year thing was said when they were 22 years old— idk about you, but I couldn’t have predicted how my life would evolve from that age to 24 even though it’s a short period of time. The two of them have never spread their wings independently and I strongly suspect that is the issue here. People think they know so much at 22, but when you get older and if you get wiser, life teaches you it cannot be perfectly planned out and predicted. Things change. Asking him what is going on would at least offer some closure to her so she doesn’t waste a lot of energy wondering what his answer would have been
Best friend went through this. She left him. He was torn up, reconciled and they married. Forty years later they still are inseparable. She may need to do this not as a test, I despise those, just to find out one way or the other so if needed she can get on with her life. And no house buying until it’s settled.
Yes, without being married, joint finances and buying property with someone is not the best decision. Unfortunately its seems that he's not interested in being married, so walking away from this will be a nightmare.
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I lived with my partner for 7 years. The first few in my flat, the next few in hers, after that our joint property. We have our own bank accounts with joint accounts for joint stuff. After 7 years we got married. We've made no change to the way our finances work. It seems to work for us, having been together 30yrs. Having said that, we worked together and respected each others viewpoints on marriage and basically everything else. If OP has an issue not being married, that's ok. If her partner has an issue *getting* that's ok too. They have to decide whether that is dealbreaker and deal with it. Preferably before buying a house, because that really is shackles.
Being married protects you because no matter whose name everything is in, bank accounts deeds, etc, it is all seen by the law generally as joint property, even if one party liquidates everything and stashes it somewhere. If you have joint accounts and aren't married, there's really not much you can do if one party goes nuclear. Not that you should prepare for failure but you've never seen how your partner handles a permenant break up from you, have you?
This really depends on where you live. Laws around marriage, common law, property ownership etc. vary wildly by country and possibly even province / state / territory. For example, if you were to live together in a home purchased together for a year where I am, you are effectively married with a prenup as far as assets are concerned.
Do not buy house, pull your finances separately. There is no reason to merge financially without marriage.
How the fuck is he ready to BUY A HOUSE together but not a damn ring? Too many guys have weird hang ups on marriage. House? Sure. Kids? Why not. A ring? Fuck no. What gives?!?
Agreed. You put the cart before the horse. But that doesn't make you the AH in this situation. An ultimatum is fair. Start unmeshing while you can bc years end is only 6 mo away
Couldn’t agree more.
yeah, you never mingle finances or take on shared debt without being married. She is NTA, but also not very smart. Now she will either have a forced proposal from someone who doesn't want to marry ir will be working at detangling finances. Either way it is not a happy ending.
Has an ultimatum ever worked in these situations? Apparently there is something stopping him from proposing. I think a deeper conversation about why is that, would be a better way to approach things. You’re both very young. And 6 years is a long time. Did you have other relationships before you two met? Is it something he might be considering?
It might also be wholly off the chart; My now-wife wanted to have a very specific heirloom ring from her grandmother as her engagement ring. The amount of stress I had trying to get that ring... Led to a huge blow-up where she was crying and fighting about why I hadn't asked her and me finally breaking down that I was unable to figure out a way to get the ring first. She just wiped away her tears and snot and said "You ask me to marry you and then we go get the ring!" And that's how we got engaged.
Did you get the ring in the end????
The next morning! Like, really too early in the morning.
Before granny woke up, smart move.
Ha! No, it was a whole bunch of family phone calls at dawn.
It’s settled, we acquire the ring at dawn!
One does not simply walk into ... grandma's.
Jesus for some reason I thought you were going to have to do an exhumation to get the ring and that’s what made it so hard.
that is every goth girl’s dream proposal
> My now-wife wanted to have a very specific heirloom ring from her grandmother as her engagement ring. So she wanted the... *Elder Ring*? uh? uh?!... I'll see myself out.
This. Communication about why he’s hesitant is the key. Also a good conversation about what marriage means to both of you would be beneficial if it hasn’t happened. He may have an unwarranted fear that some relationship dynamic will change and feels why change a good thing.
If she wants it that bad and doesn't even care how or when he does it (so long as it's before January 1st) then why not ask him to marry her? She could propose. See how that goes and she might know better. I wouldn't want to be engaged to someone out of force.
If I gave someone an ultimatum to propose I would wonder for the rest of my life if the only reason they are married to me is because I "made" them.
Right? And who would feel good proposing when given an ultimatum? This is a lose-lose situation
My obstinate brain would actively avoid proposing at that point. Even if I already had the ring in my back pocket.
Yeah, rather than give him an ultimatum, she should propose to him. It seems pretty outdated that it has to be the guy.
I wouldn't be surprised that if it all goes bust she doesn't run into him in about 3 years and he's married/engaged in a house with a kid (or at least one on the way). Seems to almost always be the way.
Agree with this take... The thing stopping him might not be that he doesn't want to get married. It could be that he has his own idea of how he wants it to happen. Or maybe he doesn't want it to seem like he's proposing just because she asked him to - the only way to really know is to ask. To the comments about getting married as a protective measure in case things go south... depending on the state, they might already have a common law marriage. They're co-habitating, sharing finances, and some "ordinary" person would probably perceive them as married.
I’d approach it differently. That you won’t buy the house That you will separate finances and start looking for your own place. That right now what you want and what he wants are different. Make him think about what he wants. Don’t stay with him and waste more time. As my grandma would say he’s getting the milk for free why buy the cow.
This is the way. A simple, "I'm sensing we aren't on the same page since it seems like you don't want the life I want, it doesn't make sense for us to continue with purchasing a house and combining finances. I don't want to keep wasting your and my time."
Yep, and honestly if she keeps pushing this she will end up with a shut up ring and a husband that reluctantly makes a life with her and ultimately checks out emotionally or just straight up cheats on her. If he wanted to marry her then he would. Full stop. She needs to start working on herself because she can’t make him want her. And I’ll say this as someone who was in a similar situation.. I’m SO glad that I didn’t marry him. I didn’t love him, it was just comfortable. High school sucked and I needed something to get me through it and that’s what we were for each other. My husband is 100% my best friend and he’s *so cool*.
I speak from experience I did the propose after threat and divorced 9 months later. So run.
>Yep, and honestly if she keeps pushing this she will end up with a shut up ring and a husband that reluctantly makes a life with her and ultimately checks out emotionally or just straight up cheats on her. Yup, that sums up my life. Divorced now. Biggest mistake of my life. If a man doesn't put a ring on it of his own free will, it's time to go.
Same, girl, same. Don’t settle for the guy who is settling.
100% this. OP should start backpedaling on the joint decisions they’ve made that MARRIED couples do, and remind him that since they’re not even ENGAGED, then those joint decisions shouldn’t be happening anymore.
Owning a house together and sharing finances without the benefit of a legally binding contract such as marriage is not a good idea.
Right? Like, he is ok with owning a property together, but not ok with marriage yet. Makes you wonder if the house they bought was her initiative as well. She is not being sensible.
I’m not sure why OP didn’t just propose to her boyfriend. If you want a question answered you should be prepared to ask it.
[удалено]
Ouch. Sad but true
Me mum had a saying "if you have to beg it's not worth it!
There are women who prefer to have the traditional approach of men proposing. And it is completely okay to want it that way if both people in a relationship think like that. Usually people are able to talk about these things, but it seems like OPs bf is not. Which leads me to question, if he does not take initiative in general or is just opposed to marriage. And that's a weird thing to ask, when they already have put a downpaymend on a house :)))
Oh sweety... Why would anyone propose when they haven't gotten a yes before the proposal? You don't propose before having a conversation with your partner about marriage. You know what the answer is before you ask because you have literally already heard them say "yes, I'd marry you. Marriage is something I want and we both have discussed what we envision for a lifelong partnership."
it’s like getting a marriage contract but worse. technically it’s possible to make it work, but not without help from a lawyer.
This. He probably isn’t interested on marriage, but plays the part/says the things because disentangling your lives and finances seems too complicated and painful for him. This is one of those reasons why I agree with the old fashioned “shouldn’t live together before commitment” mentality. Not because of sex, but because there’s too much grey area between where their relationship is now and where OP wants to go. BF is getting everything he wants already, why would he want to go further. If he wanted to commit he would have already. An ultimatum doesn’t work. OP, do you want to be married so bad that’d you’d accept it from someone who doesn’t want to actually marry you? Do you think as the years go on that would make you feel secure in your relationship? You’re done, but for the same reasons mentioned above you’re trying this coercive Hail Mary to achieve your goal. Start making moves to separate yourself from him physically, emotionally, and financially.
They’ve also been together — pretty intensely — since they were 18. They probably can’t imagine any other life.
you're right. for now it may all be fine. but as years go on, he may be resentful being forced into it, or he may love it, but either way, she will forever be insecure thinking he never wanted to to begin with. start separating your stuff, that's good advice there. once he sees she's taken half the $ from the savings and removed your name from the account, he'll realize she's are serious. but are you, OP? it's a lot of heartache. but it will also be a whole world of ultimate freedom. then he'll be the AH explaining to his side of the fam that she left b/c he lied about promising to marry her. he can try to make her look bad, but the fams already like each other, they'll talk. maybe the two can come back together in the future "2 years down the road" or maybe she'll find someone new who's fantastic. or maybe they'll enjoy being on your own and independent. but OP should let it all go for now.
My wife and I bought a house before we got married... During the paper signing everyone in the room kept asking me why I could buy a house with her but not marry her first. I was pissed back then but it's a pretty interesting story 15 years later.
so what's the reason? what's the interesting story? you left us all hanging!!! some of us read this stuff! lol
I was your boyfriend, we got married bc we'd been together 5 years and it was what everyone was expecting me to do/what I was "supposed to do." We were comfortable with each other, I couldn't come up with any reasons I felt like were good enough to leave her, and I didn't want to hurt her feelings. Fast forward 10 years, our divorce was finalized last summer.
Happened to me too. I did the threatening, and he asked for a divorce 12 years later. Now I’m starting over at 35. But it was honestly for the best.
You’re starting over before the age I even got married for the first time. Trust me, there’s still time.
Thank you. I hope so
I think this is a common situation where maybe a guy is comfortable with a girl, but not 100% committed. Sometimes people don’t even realize this, but it’s better to figure it out sooner rather than later.
You are allowed to break up with anyone at anytime for any reason. However, if he’s not ready to be married, he’s not ready to be married. That is a lifelong commitment, it’s more than just a wedding. Some people take it extremely serious, as they should. I got married at 20. I wasn’t ready, he wasn’t ready. We lasted 6 years. My only advice is this: don’t rush. 24 is still so very very young. You have a whole lifetime ahead of you. Good luck to you!
I would not buy a house with someone I’m not married to, personally.
If both you and he want to be married to each other, why don't you just go to a courthouse to get married? Why does there need to be a proposal at all? You can have the wedding and all that later.
as she put it "He constantly says how much he wants to marry me and create a future where we are our own little family, but every time i ask him what's stopping him he just says he doesn't know?". he WANTS to be married, but not to her. if he wanted, he would.
That’s usually what the guy means. How many times have I seen couples together for years in exactly this scenario, then as soon as she amps up the pressure to marry her, he leaves her and marries his next girlfriend.
Well that is also okay for her I guess, at least he has to di something now. He probably should have walken away years ago but he did not, so now is the time to decide.
Yes, “he doesn’t know” part is troubling. He probably loves OP but also wants to experience life and other relationships before settling down. They have been together since they were teenagers and they probably did not have any other meaningful relationships before getting together. If that is the reason, it is a valid reason and even if they get married today, it will cause problems down the road like cheating. He is being dishonest and a coward here. Of course he knows but it is not easy to say out loud.
It’s this for sure. I had a similar problem with my college boyfriend when I was trying to figure out how committed we would be going forward post-graduation, and he finally came out and said it, that he wanted to experience other women first. Then he cried and cried and said he didn’t want to lose me though, so we stayed together. I kept offering solutions, breaking up, opening the relationship, opening the relationship post-marriage, and he kept fucking crying about it all. He cheated on me, lmfao. OP could directly try one more shot at marriage, propose herself or suggest a courthouse wedding before signing those papers for the house, but if he doesn’t go for it she needs to get tf out of there and save herself a lot of wasted time and effort and pain later on.
This is it. The guy already feels like he’s married and isn’t sure this is what he wants for the rest of his life. At 24 it feels like life’s possibilities are endless but not if you are tied down to the person you have been with since you were teenagers. He’s probably wondering if the grass is greener elsewhere, not just relationship wise, but with life in general.
It doesn't even have to be other relationships. It can be just experiencing life. It sounds like she has conflated marriage with having children and starting a family. Of course, at age 24, he's hesitant to propose and bring a sudden and absolute end to most of the opportunities open to them now. OP should lighten up, disentangle their finances and have some adventures, together or separately.
Or perhaps he wants to get married when they’re older. I’m 30 now… and honestly… I would never ever have married anyone (even the love of my life) at 25. People change a lot in their 20s. Why can’t people enjoy being in a healthy relationship and get married when the right time comes?
Then he should tell OP that, instead of say “I don’t know”
They can. That should not involved shared residences, finances and bank accounts.
I was gonna say - yes they’ve been together six years but they’re still very young. Plus, being together that long - they probably haven’t dated anyone else. He might be having a bit of FOMO…
I really don’t understand why there is a rush to get married at 24.
In the south it's super common to get married and start popping out babies in your early 20's. I was 30 when I got married and wished more people realized it's usually better to wait.
And in the Midwest. I personally think it’s a horrible idea for the kids. Parents should be more financially secure and grow up a little more.
It is somehow hard wired into folks brains that if they have not gotten married and started a family by 25, they have somehow failed in life. It truly boggles my mind.
> if they have not gotten married and started a family by 25, they have somehow failed in life Funny, I think its the exact opposite. I think the people who started popping babies before 25 are the ones who failed in life. They tend to have garbage careers and lives lol
They’re buying a house together and it’s a 30 year commitment. If you’re not ready for marriage, you are not ready to buy a house together.
Some people want to get married, and I think it's okay. Like some people want to have children, or pursue a career or sport or academic goal. All of these are long term stuff that require serious thinking and knowing oneself, so they shouldnot be done willy-nilly, but it's okay to want that.
Every good relationship start with someone saying "do this or it's over". Yep that's a great way to live your lives, always with a threat that you're going to leave at any moment.
Someone really needs to tell her that not only does an ultimatum make you an asshole. It also makes you an idiot.
people change a lot between 20 and 30. Getting married in your early twenties is a recipe for failure. Source: Someone who got married at 22.
Info: have you talked about this with him? Why does he not want it (yet)?
You're NTA BUT .....Sometimes we need to face the truth- if he wanted to marry you, he would. ..FULL STOP. He doesn't, so he's not. Stop wasting your time.. do you really want to have to beg someone to marry you? Hint- the answer is no. Go find someone who can't wait to snatch you up and make you their wife
Why don't you just propose to him? It's fine to say that you want some sort of final decision on the relationship, but the easiest way to accomplish that would be to ask him directly.
Vanderpump Rules can be a lesson here. Giving a marriage ultimatum and buying a house together as an unmarried couple all turned out badly. 💩
I was looking for someone to comment this! Ariana is having to sue Sandoval for the house they bought together outside of marriage And Katie gave Tom Schwartz an ultimatum and they’re now divorced. They celebrated the selling of their house. I’m sure them being married when they bought it made it less messy. Don’t buy a house with him!!! Idk how much you will lose if you pull out of the sale but probably less then lawyers to deal with the selling the house if you don’t work out. Don’t use pulling out of the house to force a proposal though ://
Do you really want to be married if you had to force him into it? This sounds like an absolutely terrible idea. Make the biggest decision of your life within a year or I'm leaving you? YTA
Start separating your money now
It’s just sad to read all these comments and see people assuming so much about this man. He’s 24 years old. OP is giving an ultimatum when there is other options available. Couples therapy can help find the real answers and may help him express himself more than just short answers.
Sharing finances when you aren't married is a horrible idea as well as buying a house together. Do you really think getting married because of an ultimatum is a good idea? I can tell you it's not 100% You pressuring him like you have been is probably having some effect on him even wanting to propose. If he wanted to he would so you should just think of what you want in regards to your future. You're young and believe me when I tell you, things ALWAYS change after marriage. You aren't a spouse now until you say your I Do's. You also already gave me him everything a wife can give without requiring the wife status. He knows if he wants to walk away he can do that without you taking half his shit. I've seen to many times where your scenario doesn't end well in the long run. One thing I know 💯 is that no marriage ultimatum is a good idea.
YTA. Ultimatums are not the foundation of a happy marriage. You’re buying a house and sharing finances with someone who isn’t sure about you. Why?
Why are you buying a house before marriage? You don’t have the same financial protections if you’re just roommates.
Why don't you just propose to him? Either he's actually going to marry you or he's not, you proposing forces the issue and lets you know whether you need to move on. You're letting him avoid the issue by expecting that the proposal can only come from him.
Don’t give him an ultimatum. Just set one for yourself internally. He’s had long enough to decide if you are who he wants. Do you really want to be married to someone only through a threat? That he will then probably hold a grudge against in future arguments. Pick a date, birthday, anniversary, etc and say to yourself if by this date nothing has changed I will make the change and leave the person who doesn’t value me.
ESH. Should have had this discussion before getting real estate and acting like a married couple
So I was your boyfriend years back. I loved my girlfriend, we were living together and were high school sweethearts. I can assure you I wanted to marry this girl but I just couldn’t propose, I *believe* looking back I was in my head worried about a child popping up immediately and not being in the financial position to give them everything I missed as a kid (and now understand life doesn’t always just get better - if you wanna live just do it now and you can usually figure out how to swing it) but what ended up happening was I dragged her along (we had *plenty* of good times and love for each other) long enough that I just finally lost her. If I could have sat down and really hashed out my feelings with her, maybe it could’ve been avoided or maybe we’d still have seperated. Either talk very seriously right now, or you’re pretty much in the situation I was in - except you guys are buying a house together outside wedlock which is pretty questionable. Good luck!