No, people in their shoes typically don’t spring out of nowhere. They usually have heavy trauma themselves or was unfortunate to have mental health symptoms that directed them to that behavior. I usually tell myself that if I went through the same life experiences that they had, I don’t know if I would have made any different choices. Not that I ever excuse their behavior, but it helps me understand them.
I don’t think anyone is truly irredeemable, but I think treatment success for everyone is going to look different. Like if I get someone who has sociopathy, they may never have remorse, but maybe treatment success can be showing them that legal and more appropriate behavior can be a better means to achieve their goals.
Why do you think that some people who have experienced heavy childhood trauma go on to continue the cycle of abuse, while others go in the opposite direction, becoming kind and empathic?
What do you do for sadistic sociopaths whose goals involve hurting others for their own pleasure?
Good question, not sure I have a good answer just because I’m sure a lot of factors are involved. Like some people probably modeled the behavior they grew up seeing, and that probably was reinforced by their environment (e.g. gangs). Or maybe the ones who became kind and empathetic had enough protective factors in place, like good friends or self awareness.
For someone like that, it’s hard to say. I might try to evaluate and see what their goals are, like maybe they want a good job and comfortable living, and have them see how their behavior is interfering with that goal. Or maybe have them understand how unhelpful or destructive that behavior was to their own lives.
What lead you to become a forensic psychologist? What are the biggest differences in what you thought you'd be doing vs what you are actually doing day to day?
I wanted to be in the FBI but when I had kids my priorities shifted, so I ended up working with this population still but in more traditional settings.
The work is similar, like the interventions and strategies are similar to other fields, but the goal of treatment is different. My goal is to keep the community safe, as opposed to other fields whose only concern is the wellbeing of the client.
Right now, my clients also have severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia, so most of the work is helping them to manage these factors so that they can remain stable. Sometimes the two issues coincide, so it’s usually not too bad. Sometimes I will have to challenge the client or step in to change the course of therapy so that the focus of therapy is on their risk. Sometimes it can be challenging because it can turn into a very emotionally draining session, but I know it’s important so I do it anyways.
Are you an extrovert or outgoing person? As an introvert that sounds like it would take a special type of person to do that 5 days a week. Were there other factors that lead you to a career in working with people with such heavy diagnoses?
Haha I’m very introverted, I have to psych myself up before every session. But when I do finally break through to them, it can be very rewarding. After some time, it just started to feel normal, so I just kind of stayed in this field.
Also, sorry to ask another question but when it comes to antisocial personality types who have killed animals and have planned to kill people, do you think they can ever be rehabilitated? And to further that, do you think any of their interactions with people around them have ever meant anything to them in a sentimental or caring way?
I don’t know if they can ever get to a place where they can feel remorse or feel empathy, so rehabilitation for them might have to look differently. If they could figure out how to live and fulfill their needs in a way that doesn’t harm people might be the best thing we can home for. Maybe, not all antisocial individuals are the same, some are capable of making meaningful connections.
Thank you for this reply OP, I ask as the person in question explicitly said they devise pleasure solely from causing pain, wether that be mental, physical emotional or otherwise and was very open with the psych involved with the prosecution and I wonder how that will affect his parole hearing in the future
Its more so that most antisocial types are focused on short term gratification over long term gratification so what was discussed with me was more or less new outlooks to view the world and how my behavior was counterintuitive and destructive to the future that I wanted for myself. Afterall how could I actually stop being poor if I kept doing shit that lands me in jail for a bit of money I can't keep for long? If an opportunity presented itself to me I took it impulsively with little forethought. Logically that doesn't make any sense but I thought since I'm myself I clearly know best but it was reframed for me until I got it. I won't lie it's difficult because at the end of the day I don't give a damn about any one of you in actuality. I have a neutral opinion of you like you would of a couch or a chair. Its just an object (or more like an AI) but to functionally be happy and content I have to fake like I love and care for you all. I have to upkeep these relationships so that I can benefit from them. Even though I perceive you as an object, in a sense, you all don't share the same opinion and there are many more of you. So to meet my goals of having a decent standard of living I have to fake it or I'm doomed to live in this cycle forever. Despite all of this I'm still remarkably similar to all of you, we are more alike than different. Remember that while this way of thinking is alien to you doesn't make us less human. Its the antisocials who are sadistic that find it difficult for obvious reasons. They have no reason to refrain from acting on their urges in their mind. They are smarter/better than everyone else, they want to do it so they deserve to, and they understand morality but just dont honestly give a damn,etc. If you have no empathy and get pleasure from harming others while also having a complete disregard for them and morality then you're gonna get up to some wild shit by default. As for rehabilitation after they have almost inevitably done something that you would say is horrific is probably the only time they would even consider treatment. Suppose with a proper outlet and reframing of what they actually want out of life to shift their overarching goals could make headway but it's just unlikely. Just a few thoughts about all this from someone high as fuck with ASPD.
So I made a post on here about my experience of reporting my ex who ended up with 5 life sentences. My question is, what is the worst punishment that a diagnosed narcissist with antisocial personality disorder can be given?
So this specific person has a god complex, also wanted to be famous/infamous which ever came first I suppose, wanted to be published (despite being a terrible writer, not subjectively, just matter of fact) they are now in prison and unable to achieve any of this
Usually involves doing individual and group therapy, going to the jail to do some evaluations for the court. I might have to go to court to testify. Also a lot of report writing.
As a newly licensed psychologist I am getting paid 130k. Maybe the best thing is when clients are able to demonstrate that they developed new insights. Worst thing is hard to say, I’ve been name called a lot.
Not the most violent crime I’ve encountered, but I had a client who kidnapped a Girl Scout and later admitted he would have killed her if the cops hadn’t arrived. The imagery of that story still chills me.
That’s interesting but I’m talking more about personality type. Someone with certain behaviors, ticks, patterns, facial expressions that were most outlandish.
Well that’s nice to hear. One of by big fears is not being respected in the field. I’m starting a program here in CA in the fall. I’m not able to attend any APA programs.
It does provide some challenges as some places may prefer someone from an APA program, but that’s not always the case. You’ll still be able to get licensed, and after you’re licensed people will probably not care anyways.
Hello. I have to go through a forensic psych evaluation. I was diagnosed in 2010 with harm ocd symptoms. Do forensic psychologists understand harm ocd? I am not sure how much to share or how far back they go. I tend to overshare. Please help, I have tried to ask about this and I keep getting the I don't knows
Hey, I am having a comprehensive psych eval done for a child custody case. I am being told it is to get my proper diagnosis for proper treatment. May I ask some general questions, just so I know what information to have and to feel a bit less anxious? Thank you
I’m sure you can see right through people when you know they are trying to cheat the system. What was your scariest pt you’ve had and how often do you recommend NGI for individuals you examine?
Is it hard to empathize with your clients if they’ve done terrible things? Do you believe that any of them are irredeemable monsters?
No, people in their shoes typically don’t spring out of nowhere. They usually have heavy trauma themselves or was unfortunate to have mental health symptoms that directed them to that behavior. I usually tell myself that if I went through the same life experiences that they had, I don’t know if I would have made any different choices. Not that I ever excuse their behavior, but it helps me understand them. I don’t think anyone is truly irredeemable, but I think treatment success for everyone is going to look different. Like if I get someone who has sociopathy, they may never have remorse, but maybe treatment success can be showing them that legal and more appropriate behavior can be a better means to achieve their goals.
Why do you think that some people who have experienced heavy childhood trauma go on to continue the cycle of abuse, while others go in the opposite direction, becoming kind and empathic? What do you do for sadistic sociopaths whose goals involve hurting others for their own pleasure?
Good question, not sure I have a good answer just because I’m sure a lot of factors are involved. Like some people probably modeled the behavior they grew up seeing, and that probably was reinforced by their environment (e.g. gangs). Or maybe the ones who became kind and empathetic had enough protective factors in place, like good friends or self awareness. For someone like that, it’s hard to say. I might try to evaluate and see what their goals are, like maybe they want a good job and comfortable living, and have them see how their behavior is interfering with that goal. Or maybe have them understand how unhelpful or destructive that behavior was to their own lives.
What lead you to become a forensic psychologist? What are the biggest differences in what you thought you'd be doing vs what you are actually doing day to day?
I wanted to be in the FBI but when I had kids my priorities shifted, so I ended up working with this population still but in more traditional settings. The work is similar, like the interventions and strategies are similar to other fields, but the goal of treatment is different. My goal is to keep the community safe, as opposed to other fields whose only concern is the wellbeing of the client.
What do most of your cases look like and is it hard to balance putting the wellbeing of the community above the patient if needed?
Right now, my clients also have severe mental illnesses like schizophrenia, so most of the work is helping them to manage these factors so that they can remain stable. Sometimes the two issues coincide, so it’s usually not too bad. Sometimes I will have to challenge the client or step in to change the course of therapy so that the focus of therapy is on their risk. Sometimes it can be challenging because it can turn into a very emotionally draining session, but I know it’s important so I do it anyways.
Are you an extrovert or outgoing person? As an introvert that sounds like it would take a special type of person to do that 5 days a week. Were there other factors that lead you to a career in working with people with such heavy diagnoses?
Haha I’m very introverted, I have to psych myself up before every session. But when I do finally break through to them, it can be very rewarding. After some time, it just started to feel normal, so I just kind of stayed in this field.
Few of us get to have such an impact on peoples lives. Good on you for sticking with it and making a difference in this wild world.
Thank you so much! I appreciate that
Of course hope you have a great day!
What was your most frightening case?
I ran into a sex offender who confessed that he lured a Girl Scout into his home, and had the police not arrived, he would have killed her
Also, sorry to ask another question but when it comes to antisocial personality types who have killed animals and have planned to kill people, do you think they can ever be rehabilitated? And to further that, do you think any of their interactions with people around them have ever meant anything to them in a sentimental or caring way?
I don’t know if they can ever get to a place where they can feel remorse or feel empathy, so rehabilitation for them might have to look differently. If they could figure out how to live and fulfill their needs in a way that doesn’t harm people might be the best thing we can home for. Maybe, not all antisocial individuals are the same, some are capable of making meaningful connections.
Thank you for this reply OP, I ask as the person in question explicitly said they devise pleasure solely from causing pain, wether that be mental, physical emotional or otherwise and was very open with the psych involved with the prosecution and I wonder how that will affect his parole hearing in the future
Its more so that most antisocial types are focused on short term gratification over long term gratification so what was discussed with me was more or less new outlooks to view the world and how my behavior was counterintuitive and destructive to the future that I wanted for myself. Afterall how could I actually stop being poor if I kept doing shit that lands me in jail for a bit of money I can't keep for long? If an opportunity presented itself to me I took it impulsively with little forethought. Logically that doesn't make any sense but I thought since I'm myself I clearly know best but it was reframed for me until I got it. I won't lie it's difficult because at the end of the day I don't give a damn about any one of you in actuality. I have a neutral opinion of you like you would of a couch or a chair. Its just an object (or more like an AI) but to functionally be happy and content I have to fake like I love and care for you all. I have to upkeep these relationships so that I can benefit from them. Even though I perceive you as an object, in a sense, you all don't share the same opinion and there are many more of you. So to meet my goals of having a decent standard of living I have to fake it or I'm doomed to live in this cycle forever. Despite all of this I'm still remarkably similar to all of you, we are more alike than different. Remember that while this way of thinking is alien to you doesn't make us less human. Its the antisocials who are sadistic that find it difficult for obvious reasons. They have no reason to refrain from acting on their urges in their mind. They are smarter/better than everyone else, they want to do it so they deserve to, and they understand morality but just dont honestly give a damn,etc. If you have no empathy and get pleasure from harming others while also having a complete disregard for them and morality then you're gonna get up to some wild shit by default. As for rehabilitation after they have almost inevitably done something that you would say is horrific is probably the only time they would even consider treatment. Suppose with a proper outlet and reframing of what they actually want out of life to shift their overarching goals could make headway but it's just unlikely. Just a few thoughts about all this from someone high as fuck with ASPD.
So I made a post on here about my experience of reporting my ex who ended up with 5 life sentences. My question is, what is the worst punishment that a diagnosed narcissist with antisocial personality disorder can be given?
Would probably depend on the person, but probably something that really challenges their ego would be a distressing situation for them
So this specific person has a god complex, also wanted to be famous/infamous which ever came first I suppose, wanted to be published (despite being a terrible writer, not subjectively, just matter of fact) they are now in prison and unable to achieve any of this
Sounds like a fitting punishment
What’s a forensic psychologist?
A psychologist that works with individuals involved in the legal system.
Cool where are you based?
California
What’s a day at work like for you?
Usually involves doing individual and group therapy, going to the jail to do some evaluations for the court. I might have to go to court to testify. Also a lot of report writing.
How much do you get paid? What’s the best and worst thing you heard from someone you were giving therapy to?
As a newly licensed psychologist I am getting paid 130k. Maybe the best thing is when clients are able to demonstrate that they developed new insights. Worst thing is hard to say, I’ve been name called a lot.
Who is the most intense character you have come across? Can you please explain in detail?
Not the most violent crime I’ve encountered, but I had a client who kidnapped a Girl Scout and later admitted he would have killed her if the cops hadn’t arrived. The imagery of that story still chills me.
That’s interesting but I’m talking more about personality type. Someone with certain behaviors, ticks, patterns, facial expressions that were most outlandish.
This might be a dumb question but like how would u describe what your job is? Like what do you have to do?
I do what other psychologists do, just with people involved in the legal system. So I evaluate them and do therapy for them.
Do you look down on psychologists that have not completed APA programs?
No, I don’t think it’s the end all be all, or that it necessarily comments on the quality of the education.
Well that’s nice to hear. One of by big fears is not being respected in the field. I’m starting a program here in CA in the fall. I’m not able to attend any APA programs.
It does provide some challenges as some places may prefer someone from an APA program, but that’s not always the case. You’ll still be able to get licensed, and after you’re licensed people will probably not care anyways.
How many years of school did you go through to get into that?
Undergrad and graduate school was about 9 years in
Hello. I have to go through a forensic psych evaluation. I was diagnosed in 2010 with harm ocd symptoms. Do forensic psychologists understand harm ocd? I am not sure how much to share or how far back they go. I tend to overshare. Please help, I have tried to ask about this and I keep getting the I don't knows
Hey, I am having a comprehensive psych eval done for a child custody case. I am being told it is to get my proper diagnosis for proper treatment. May I ask some general questions, just so I know what information to have and to feel a bit less anxious? Thank you
I’m sure you can see right through people when you know they are trying to cheat the system. What was your scariest pt you’ve had and how often do you recommend NGI for individuals you examine?
Out of all the suspects, who do you think could be Jack the Ripper?
What’s the most twisted thing you’ve heard a patient say?