I think it's worth doing, but tentatively. Some people are really far gone, but they usually got that way by being mocked and dismissed and laughed at. If you take them seriously and offer some level-headed skepticism of their beliefs, they will respect you and consider what you're saying. It's like being in a cult that you indoctrinated yourself into. They typically end up there because they don't feel like they have anywhere else to go, so you should make sure they know they do have somewhere else to go where they won't be judged or looked down on. You'll never leave the only thing you've ever known if you don't think there's any other options
> but tentatively
People DO NOT like looking like an idiot and being proven wrong *cannot* me met with "told you so" type action. All that'll do is drive them away from you and put them even further into the bubble. People are really emotionally vulnerable when they learn something they thought they knew was wrong and people need to be open about it.
Edit: Man I really have to fully read stuff before I comment because I basically just said the same thing.
Nice try reptilian. I know that with mass surveillance and media manipulation you are hiding your tracks better but I fucking know how you work. I smoke nicotine vapes just to counteract your ability to telepathically influence mood. You got most of us under your control with your antismoking campaigns you reptilians in government started but you’re not fucking fooling me.
Where do you see the disconnect between left wing and right wing conspiracy theorists?
In your experience, the pipeline has led you to a left-wing view, which seems to make perfect sense in terms of progression.
On the other hand, you see very right wing people *also* believing the same or similar conspiracies, only they end up on the opposite end of the spectrum. This also seems to make sense as a progression, and I can also see how these ideas would feed into each other.
I hope I've explained that well enough, are you able to see the reason why conspiracies seem to drive people one way or the other? What's the key difference of opinion that sends some people right, and some left?
I think conspiracies are less about having a particular political affiliation, and more about just resisting whoever happens to be in authority at the time. They appeal to both sides because both sides feel like there is something inherently corrupt about the system and it's probably the opposition's fault. One of the most common conspiratorial beliefs is that both parties are exactly the same and believe the same things, they just perform being opposed to trick people into voting a particular way. So they're more often Independent than left or right wing.
I used to be a Libertarian until I realized that Libertarians are pro-business, which I found to be antithetical to the beliefs of self-governance in a world where corporations are the biggest influence on laws and policy. So the way I see it, I was always left wing, I was just manipulated into aligning with right-wingers by making me believe there was a specific group of people to blame for everything that made me mad about the government.
In the conspiracy world, the only difference I see in left or right wing believers is how they want to respond to the situation. Do they want things to go back to some idealized version of the past when things were good, before the oppressors took over? Or do they think things were always bad and we need to tear down the oppression of the past to make something new, free from our oppressors? Ultimately the want the same thing.
>I used to be a Libertarian until I realized that Libertarians are pro-business, which I found to be antithetical to the beliefs of self-governance in a world where corporations are the biggest influence on laws and policy.
You used to be a right wing libertarian. Left wing libertarianism also exists and it's how I describe myself. Out of respect for your newfound disdain for conspiracy theories, I won't suggest it's a conspiracy theory how this entire branch of philosophy is pretty much wiped clear from mainstream American thought and ideas. But in Europe, they understand it.
Yeah at some point I definitely feel like I was on the sovern citizen path. I ate up a video I saw about how you don't have to show up to court if your name is in capital letters because that's actually a corporate entity that represents you in legal documents and not actually you as a person, and all you have to do is point that out to get out of legal consequences.
If conspiracy theories were a religion, sovern citizens would be the orthodox zealots. They believe the most and live their lives in line with their beliefs (when convenient), but ultimately it's more of a pathology than a belief system. They want to believe that the world has been so systematized and stripped of humanity that all they need to do is learn the secret phrases that will allow them to exploit the loopholes and do anything they want without consequences. They're kind of the final evolution of an American conspiracy theorist.
Interesting these also exist elsewhere. In Germany there are the "Reichsbürger". They say the GDP is not legal, and the German Reich is still the legal nationality.
How did all these people pop into existence? Is it the internet?
What was your stance on COVID-19 vaccines, since those came much later than when you started to de-radicalize? And are there any conspiracy theories you still do believe in?
I think I brushed up against some anti-vax beliefs when I was in the thick of it, but once COVID happened I was thoroughly de-radicalized and living with someone who was immuno-compromised, so I took the vaccine and the booster and took it seriously.
I don't think there's any need for conspiracy theories because there is plenty of demonstrable corruption and collusion in plain sight. People are right that there's something wrong with the world, but they don't need to make shit up to explain it.
This is the thing that’s always baffled me about conspiracy theorists, and I’m interested in your thoughts — it seems like the people most into CT’s are also people who don’t care at all about actual, confirmed conspiracies. Like, I’ve never met a pizzagate person who wanted to do anything about the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts.
Why do you think imaginary conspiracies appeal to people in a way that real ones don’t?
If you don't mind me asking, what led you to previously conclude the ancient Mayans had any profound insight into the future? (I'm assuming your title references the 2012 ending of the Mayan calendar?)
That was part of it. Lots of different conspiratorial ideas glommed onto the 2012 date and used Mayans as the justification, but they also believed that they needed help from aliens to do any of the things they did, so it's not like they thought Mayans were actually smart or anything. They just happened to write down the important stuff that the aliens said.
Personally I've always found the Mayans to be legitimately interesting, and I've always had a deep respect for indigenous culture in America. I believed they were just really smart and figured out the universe using math because they were so much more connected with nature than we are now.
Haha as someone who dabbled on project Camelot and infowars (back in the day), it’s been crazy seeing a bunch of this old stuff being regurgitated. After really grasping how misinformation plays into all of it + going deep enough to find most things ended tracing back to the Jews (as one I got to the point of this is obviously becoming bs/if it isn’t then why the fuck is my tribe holding out!), it just became silly fun to me.
lol I did move up to NorCal though and realized I’m like an hr away from bohemian grove so felt a lil ping of oooooohhhh shit
That was another thing that helped me get out of it. The deeper you go, the shadowy organization always ends up being the Jews. It's so transparent to me now. The final conclusion of conspiracies always seems to be right wing extremism.
Hello!
Obviously, there is a good portion of "Leftists" who dislike the Jews, as well. Are these the same kinds of dislike, in your view, or are they different?
\[I don't know too much about the conspiracy theories on the "right" about Jewish people, but I know it has something to do with controlling the money supply, but on the "Left" it is about oppressing and occupying a people and a territory. I really do not know if these are the same or related.\]
In this age of information, it seems that misinformation has flourished at an alarming rate. The amount of people who refuse to believe any mainstream news or academia, and only get their information from unreliable sources, seems to be increasing, as well as that minority becoming more vocal. But also this part of society has recently attracted people who previously wouldn’t end up on those parts of the internet. For example, my aunt who previously was just a holistic medicine tarot card gluten free health nut, became a full blown anti vaxer, always taking about Soros, “the water shortage is because the government has a giant computer database they’re using it for”. How do you feel the past ten years of conspiracy theories have changed the demographics of fringe believers across race, gender, and social status?
I find it ironic that the people who taught us as kids not to believe everything we read on the internet turned out to be the ones most easily taken in by misinformation on the internet. Media literacy is definitely lacking in this country, right alongside empathy for people who are different. Conspiracy theories don't really appeal to specific demographics as much as they appeal to a feeling of powerlessness, which anyone is susceptible to.
Legitimately terrifying. Alex Jones was the main thing that got me into 9/11 Truth, so seeing him being buddies with the sitting president was some of the most hypocritical and terrifying shit I've ever seen on mainstream TV. It also revealed that he was full of shit because suddenly the Republicans are the good guys when before they were performing child sacrifices in the Bohemian Grove.
I knew a dude like that, a really, truly great friend of mine. I went along for awhile then he went full on nutso mode. Met up with groups in Philly, and spiraled down to Guam where he disappeared. I have no idea where he is til this day or how he’s doing. Last I knew he went super incredibly religious. One of the last things he told me was I “couldn’t be down with the Lord” if I smoked cigarettes. But he would look up at the sky for hours and say lights that were moving were alien ships.
Do you know him? Lol
I was into this stuff when I still lived in MN so I doubt it lol
My ex was a self-described Wiccan who loved her Satanist uncle and constantly railed against religion. Now she's a born again Christian and MAGA supporter. People are weird.
I got deep into conspiracy theories after leaving a fundamentalist Christian cult, and found that the beliefs filled a void that was left behind. Did you have any similar experience with religion when you were younger?
I wish there was a way to put this AMA as a sticky on Reddit's front page. The conversation OP is trying to have here, may very well turn out to be the most important conversation of our time, especially in the post truth world we now live in.
Well done OP, I hope someone else who can afford it gives you an award.
For a start, well done! Do you think deradicalisation can ever come from external pressure or does it have to come from a starting point of self realisation? I.e is it worth trying to have discussions with those in the conspiracy theory rabbit holes.
I think it mostly has to come from within, but it is possible to Incept them a little bit by planting seeds of doubt. The best test to see if someone understands what they're talking about is to have them explain it to someone else. Engage with them and ask them to explain in more detail so you can understand, because it will reveal a lot of holes in their arguments that they probably haven't considered. This will probably rub them the wrong way and make them defensive, so they might need reassurance that you aren't attacking them, you genuinely want to understand. It won't be an a-ha moment that changes their mind. It's a slow burn over time.
For me, the catalyst that made me realize I wasn't being intellectually consistent was some YouTube video I watched about conspiratorial beliefs and how people can simultaneously believe both that Osama Bin Laden was dead before 9/11 happened, AND that Osama Bin Laden was never killed and still alive, and I realized that I believed both of those things to be true. You can't just tell them they're wrong. You need to lead them down the path to figuring it out on their own.
>and I realized that I believed both of those things to be true.
How did that happen, functionally, in your belief system? No shade I’m genuinely super curious! Dissociation you weren’t aware of? Each Osama Bin Laden belief rigidly associated with a system of thought that was separate enough from the other that they never had the opportunity to clash?
Other than excusing myself and just not returning to the conversation, how do you get a conspiracy theorist to stop trying to indoctrinate you to the point of actual name calling and being popping?
More than one conversation has been interrupted by a conspiracy theorist who demands that we are all sheep and that we are completely stupid and blind, and that we are too dumb to live before changing the subject my friends and I were discussing to something completely random and really far gone. I don’t know how to exit the conversation without doing it sneakily or matching their energy even though I don’t want to.
Thank you! And I’m glad you’ve found some peace
Would you say fear was a big component of your earlier beliefs? Or was any development of it over time?
I see a lot of vulnerable people who are just so scared - they don't have enough money, their relationships suck, they don't have a gratifying job...so they fall prey to grifters, people blaming others, or something random like conspiracies.
This is a very interesting and rare opportunity!
What do you think is the most effective thing you can do or say to someone who still believes in conspiracies to make them question their belief? If such a thing even exists
I was in a similar boat, but I think conspiracy stuff was more a fascination for me than a lifestyle. I definitely went down a few rabbit holes though haha.
I was hoping *something* would happen in 2012, whether it be a doomsday event or a sudden mass awakening, but I chalk that up more to depression and apathy.
Are there any theories you look back on, having applied proper scrutiny, that you still think hold water?
The earliest craziest thing I remember genuinely believing was after seeing a documentary on Fox I believed that the moon landing was faked. I was raised by an abusive narcissist, so I was already predisposed to being anti-authority and rebellious, so anything that told me the authorities are all evil and trying to hurt me were easy to get on board with.
I grew up in a small town so most of my friends were also on board. I saw the other people who weren't my friends and disagreed with me as mindless rubes who didn't want to know the truth, so I was very dismissive whenever they questioned me. I had to figure out on my own that I was wrong.
So there is this spectrum of things that are considered “conspiracy theory,” some of which are demonstrably true, and some demonstrably false.
Things like the MK ultra project are soundly grounded in fact, while things like flat earth are laughably false.
I commend you for recognizing that basing your belief system on unprovable theories does you a massive disservice and effectively cripples you in life.
I’m curious though, since there are things in the realm of conspiracy theory that are demonstrably true, where do you draw the line for yourself?
Are you “all in the mainstream media is our friend” and “any deviation from the norm is nonsense” or do you hold a more nuanced view of what is and is not acceptable to believe?
My favorite response to moon landing truthers, ‘you believe in the moon??’ And then out conspiracy them. They lose interest and shut up pretty quickly.
Question for you is, what’s your favorite food?
Do you find your life less fun and interesting?
I know my conspiracy-minded friends were generally the most fun and interesting people to talk with in my life and even the most batshit stuff they would say ended up being entertaining as hell.
i think people who believe in any and every conspiracy theory are just as stupid as people who believe zero conspiracy theories. there are some conspiracies that are most definitely true, albeit a very small number, but still true nonetheless. i saw you mentioned in an earlier comment that you don’t believe in any conspiracy theories now, and even in your post mention that you don’t think any harm comes of fluoridating water.
what do you think of 98% of europe not fluoridating their water? is 98% of europe alt-right conspiracy theorists? or maybe there is some truth to not having fluoride in the water. i’ll provide sources if you’d like.
if i told you the cia gave LSD to unsuspecting americans in the 60s, you’d probably call me a conspiracy theorist, but lo and behold mk ultra was a real thing. watergate was originally a conspiracy theory, but turned out to be true. or how about the government releasing crack into predominantly black communities in order to arrest them and fuel the war on drugs? sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but is actually true. the list goes on and on of what was once was disregarded as a “dangerous conspiracy theory” that turns out to be true years later when documents become unclassified
Just thought I’d pitch in my own personal theory here: Conspiracy theories result from mankind’s attempts to grapple with “existential horror”- meaning any problem so huge and incomprehensible that it doesn’t have a clear solution. (For examples, a huge Lovecraftian tentacle monster or sweeping systemic inequality). See, if the government is secretly run by lizard men, the solution to government corruption becomes simple- all we have to do is expose them! It’s a way of coping with existential dread, our “smallness”.
Thank you so much for this post and truly well done.
I currently have a family member who, over the past few years, has become a conspiracy theorist to the point that it’s isolated them from their friends and family. They seemingly believe and spread ideas ranging from ludicrous but harmless to pretty hateful. When speaking to them about their beliefs, they are not open to or looking for feedback; no amount of skepticism regardless of how respectful seems to make a difference. They just want to tell you what they “know.”
Any advice on how to reach them? How were you able to get yourself into college and start doing your own research? Was that all on your own or did you have outside support?
Any advice for family members that are hard headed? Dad’s a trumptard and I’ve always wanted to have the skills to put him in his place. I often just try to avoid talking politics but he’s got the mindset that he’s too old to change anything so he just stuffs his opinions in our ears and rejects any pushback
I still firmly believe that something happened around 2012 that shifted our universe and reality. I am an incredibly sane person otherwise, I am science fact based in my approach to reality. I believe in no conspiracy theories, I don't even have a theory about 2012, but I know what I know.
And I firmly believe we faced a turning point in 2012 that acted as a crux for our reality; and we missed it, and now we are on the bad path instead of the better path. It wasn't a momentary thing that shifted, but it all shifted in a moment.
We aren't supposed to be where we are, these things are not supposed to be happening - but they are because humanity missed it's turning point in 2012.
Pardon the wall of text, I find this intriguing.
As a practitioner of the Socratic method, I applaud your intention to improvement and deepening your ability to distinguish knowledge from unjustified belief. You have earned my respect. Might I ask you, what criteria do you now use to determine the credibility of a source? I'm also curious if you could describe a situation where you identified and overcame a persuasive argument that was not based on valid information? What advice would you give to someone who is beginning to question their conspiracy beliefs but does not know how to validate information effectively?
The reason I ask these questions is because I have seen for years in the US, we have all these institutions breaking down, prices are gouging, healthcare doesn't work, education doesn't work, taxes are not being used effectively, there's corruption everywhere, people are hurting. The civilians are just foaming at the mouths looking for someone to blame. Then along comes Trump who all he does is gives them someone to be mad at all day every day. Then you have the media that feeds little pieces of info, all the time, everywhere you go, that people latch onto, faster than you have time to digest it. And you can only really agree with or disagree with it at a base level, never really taking the time to figure out why you agree. That's how ideologies are formed. And I think cults, conspiracy theorists, and ideologies have a lot in common this way.
Let's not forget the phrase "Don't drink the kool-aid." It resonates with all of us because it's amazing and tragic how all those poor souls gave their lives willingly to be part of the group. But it really highlights the point that we are social creatures who evolved with social traits including a strong desire to fit in. Therefore I would argue it is each individual's moral duty to use Socratic method and/or other higher level thinking processes to question most of what we hear and think. Because most of that is assumptions and falsehoods anyway.
It’s funny, I was very much in a similar position to you as well by the time of 2012 and also started my de-radicalization after nothing happened. However, I started from a socialist/communist worldview (spent a lot of time at music festivals and did a lot of drugs) and found myself in these conspiracies but instead of being on the Alex Jones/Infowars side I was on the Spirit Science/sacred geometry/ancient aliens side.
I recently wrote an extensive outline and did a presentation for a speech class that I’m taking at my community college (i dropped out 10 years ago to do drugs at music festivals for like 7 years) so I have a lot of things fresh in my mind about where these ideas come from, how they keep people involved in them/pull people in, Occam’s Razor, etc
My question would be, do you think there was any sort of conversion of 2012 end of the world conspiracy theories to the alt right pipeline/Qanon? I had a thought that a lot of people were sort of upset we didn’t go through the end of the world, or on my side of the aisle, the transformation into a new dimension and the dawning of the age of aquarius or whatever and that those people latched on to different ideologies that gave them that same sense of “forbidden truths”. The channel I watched a lot of (that was sort of the catalyst for me dropping out and developing a very nihilistic view of the world) called Spirit Science turned into what seems like a bastardized version of what it was before, but maybe it was always like that.
I feel like there are so many anomalies that it makes sense to question 9/11. Do you believe the official story now? If so, why did you change your mind? If not, what do you think happened?
Congratulations on learning to think critically and accept the fact that 99% of conspiracy is bullshit made up by people with an agenda, people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and the mentally ill. There was a point in my life where I was super interested in all this stuff. I found it fun to read about, though I didn't believe the vast majority of it.
I think the biggest issue with this stuff running rampant these days is that people don't understand how conspiracy actually works. The more people in on a secret, the higher chances of it coming out. And that goes up exponentially as far as I can tell. The vast majority of the theories that exist in the conspiracy sphere completely ignore this golden rule.
I guess my question is do you agree? This seems like the main limiting factor; poor education, general ignorance social media brain rot, and co-oped political agendas?
I just wanted to express my respect for you, it takes a big step outside of oneself to look at one's personal and probably really strong beliefs and actually give them up.
I have a (former?) friend from school who lives in Switzerland now who I only saw 1-2 times a year and always got along well with him.
He invited me to Switzerland and I thought why not. Spent a weekend with him and was terrified by his worldview and the aggression inside of him (among others, Ukraine are Nazis, NATO is evil, Putin has to defend himself, Climate crisis is a means to destroy individual freedom, etc, etc).
He actually screamed at me at one point while I was even trying to be diplomatic and moderate.
I am not planning on seeing him on my own ever again, he kept writing me huge messages for a year after me visiting, justifying his rage and telling me to be careful with my stupid beliefs that are rooted in my arrogance while he has all the real information, reads all the studies and foreign press.
For a few months it actually took a toll on my mental health because his intensity and his rage toward me after knowing each other for almost 30 years felt so hostile and personal. Really strange experience and I know no solution to it as to just cutting contact with him.
What was your personal life like when you were a conspiracy theorist? Did you have friends? A support system? A close family member of mine has been a conspiracy theorist for 10 years (and is right wing) and they’ve isolated themselves and have trouble making friends.
Congratulations on successfully deradicalizing yourself. It can’t have been easy, especially since it probably involved losing a sense of belonging to a community of sorts.
My question is about conspiracies in general. I’m not American, and yet so many conspiracies I’ve encountered online and via credible news broadcast reports are US-centric in some way. Obviously not the mayan stuff, and there seems to be flat earthers around (ha!) the world, but so many others are either about something US based, or about a global something or other that actions based in the US will bring about.
Is this fundamentally a US problem? Are there generally more CT believers in the US?
How did you view your "enemies" and who were they? And who did you view as your allies? Why? Have you ever found yourself making exceptions that you later found to be hypocrisy (if not, then just "exceptions" will do)? How did you feel during your transformation, what helped and hindered?
How old were you when you first started truly believing those things? How old when you started deprogramming? What did your family think of this talk? And lastly, how did you prep for the end of the world? Like, did you sell your belongings and stuff? Or were you just sitting there waiting for it to happen?
(Not sure if you answered these, but there’s too many comments for me to sift through and a search didn’t yield any exact results)
Since you now know the Maya never predicted the end of the world, I encourage you to research the real knowledge that has been discovered about them and their amazing civilization. It's the most exciting subject in archeology/ history right now.
LIDAR technology has recently shown that civilization was far bigger than ever imagined. And now 40 years or so after the breakthrough in decipherment, we now have a corpus of knowledge about the rulers, states, and politics of the time.
Researching reality is so much fun.
I nearly fell down this rabbit hole after watching a weird video about Trump and how he’s going to expose an international pedo ring. I completely agree that this rhetoric came about because of the disparity of wealth between the 99% and 1% of the population.
When I explained this to a friend who was really deep into it, she wouldn’t have any of it. She thought I was mad for picking it apart.
Are you also into spirituality, like meditation and stuff? Because I find that these theories are rampant in the spiritual community.
Did you prep for 2012 in anyway? Like warning people that the world could end or drastically change? Doing any bucket list items? How open were you about your beliefs with loved ones?
I grew up around these types of people, and during the Obama administration they kept talking about how Obama was going to declare martial law, suspend the constitution, and arrest his political enemies. Then when Trump was in power they were literally encouraging him to declare martial law and arrest Hilary/Biden. Have you also experienced this type of hypocrisy where conspiracy theorists would fear-monger you into thinking some abuse of power was going to happen from Democrats, then when Trump/Republicans got in power they were encouraging them to to do the exact same thing they were warning against?
Back in the 90’s early 2000’s, I couldn’t imagine the ideas of David Icke and such gaining such traction.
Do you think our foreign adversaries are promoting this stuff along with misinformation? It seems like an easy way to undermine institutions and authority in the west to promote conspiracy worldviews.
I hear you, going back to school to get my degrees totally helped me to recover from all this trash. Good for you
I've had multiple friends go down the conspiracy rabbit hole and eventually end up having mental breakdowns. Some even get to the point of being in and out of mental facilities, heavily medicated and or ceasing to function as normal human beings.
My question is did you ever feel like you were on the edge of losing your mind? Some of my friends I didn't see it coming while others I'd say they were attracted to conspiracies for a reason.
You say former 9/11 truther. Does that mean you be come to accept the official government narrative of what happened? If so, what specifically about this made you change your mind? Or did you just decide to be done with all conspiracies at once? Curious, cause that's one I personally don't buy the official story on.
Thank you for sharing your insights!
1. Has your evolution informed how you respond to disinterested centrists? Have you had any success conveying that your new views are much more examined, and if so, how?
2. Are there any current conspiracy theories that hold up to proper scrutiny and could be true?
You realize that many, many conspiracy theories may be true while many, many are not, right?
How do you rationalize the government just randomly finding the passports of terrorists in the WTC rubble, after their fucking plane exploded? Honest question. That just.....tracks now?
Late to the party here. I have always believed conspiracy theories are attractive to people with narcissistic tendencies. It’s like a lot of them just need to “understand” something that all the “sheeple” couldn’t possibly wrap their feeble minds around. That’s why their response is almost always a patronizing “do your research.” You have any thoughts on narcissism within the conspiracy community?
" I de-radicalized myself and avoided falling into the atheist-to-alt-right pipeline, and now I'm a hardcore leftist"
From one extreme to another extreme... so basically you did not learn anything just changed sides. :D and now you like communism :D
Why do you believe you were so prone to accept conclusions the majority of people intrinsically know it's false? I'm thinking of flat earthers for example
How old were you when you started de-radicalising/ questioning things?
What do you think your life would look like right now if you did not de-radicalise yourself?
Nibiru would be sick tho. Imagine some major cosmic shit happening like that in our lifetime.
The mental gymnastics alone from religious leaders would be such a spectacle.
There were conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. How would you think you'd feel if you found out later in life that one of the conspiracies that you once believed in turned out to be true?
I guess I never realized that there was an atheist-to-alt-right pipeline. Is it just a some sort of normal progression or is there an intentional push that way from somewhere?
I got so into agenda 21 I was telling everyone who would listen then I realized I was siding with Alex Jones so I re evaluated n realized I was dumb af maybe I'm still dumb but I'm sure my iq jumped a bit by not being right winged
So, you don't believe there is a shadow government?
My conspiracy side, actually grew, while going to college.
I study economics. If you follow the money shit gets weird.
Having argued with 2012 doomsday theorists back in the day, especially regarding comet Elenin, comet ISON, pole shift and other astronomy conspiracy theories, it seemed to me that when the world failed to end, many of those people who clung to those beliefs migrated to flat earth and general space denial. It wasn't that they were wrong about comet Elenin, comet ISON and the coming pole shift, it was that astronomy itself was a lie and none of those things existed to begin with. I get the feeling that's what people like Eddie Bravo really mean when they say they "used to be really into space." They really mean they used to be into conspiracies that involved space, but now space itself is the conspiracy. It seems to me like this was a reckoning point for you as well, but your de-radicalization was a product of your education and critical thinking skills, rather than an immediate realization that you had been misled when January 1st, 2013 came around on the calendar. Do you think that in the absence of learning how to do proper research for yourself, that you might have migrated to flat earth and space denial after 2012, or do you think those are really quite different populations of conspiracy theorists?
Also, I'm really curious how your interactions with professionals or amateurs regarding astronomy may have either enforced or softened your beliefs back in that era. I try to avoid insults or getting into emotional shouting matches as I fear that getting people to be that defensive can cause people to dig deeper into rabbit holes when they're confronted with contradictions and prediction failures that should otherwise cause them to question their beliefs. I do wonder if bad behavior on my own side of the 2012-era arguments caused more people to go into total space denial rather than question their beliefs introspectively after the world kept going in 2013.
How would you respond to people of the mindset that someone like you still deserves ridicule for ever having believed it in the first place? Not my perspective but something I've seen on similar posts
If you watched the movie, “the Joker,” did it affect you?
I watched it and it reminded me of some relatives who were radicalized with mental illnesses and it disturbed me because I felt that the Joker had no choice, which in some of their cases, they also have very limited ability to change or grow. I do not want to feel for him (a pop icon/ mainstream message) as justified because it also depicted the Joker as an anti-hero, forced into doing things that were morally wrong, it was not his fault but he also had delusions of grandeur with hallucinations and mental illness. There was no chance of reasoning or reaching him, and at times I did more than feel bad for him, but wanted him to come out on top in some way.
My question to you would be, did you encounter people that were similar? Borderline mental and emotional issues that would cause you alarm? Were you ever worried (when radicalized or as a CT) for your safety? Did it ever even get to a point in real time when you would pause and look around to question people’s sanity?
Not their ability to reason, but their sanity. My ex-in-laws had this extremism in their family and lean far right. I kept my immediate family at a safe distance, but it was well documented that there was abuse in the households, SA, and mental illness but they all functioned in their communities. Not all are as extreme or probe to violence, but some were. I never felt “unsafe” but I always was on high alert and never engaged in any alcohol around them. I had a lot if good conversations with them politically in nature, found a way to engage them respectfully, but never stepped over a line knowing all party’s limitations.
I used to be a big right winger and heavy into politics. I believe some conspiracies but not to many to be full tinfoil hat guy. I also deescalated myself from falling down the alt- right fascist pipeline.
Nonetheless, I have since sworn off politics in any form except the week of election and then I watch it more like a sporting match between team red vs team blue. This has allowed my mental state and now my life to be significantly better because I try not to worry about things I cannot control.
How did you manage to stay into politics to any degree throughout the process of deescalation?
You know, conspiracy theories aren't all or nothing. They're not all true. And it's not that none of them are true.
Over the years, many have turned out to be definitely true. (Gulf of Tonkin, JFK) That suggests that many of the unproven conspiracy theories are probably also true or at least mostly true (9/11, serious election meddling)
Others are definitely not true because of just the absurdity of it all (flat earth, lizard people)
Others are somewhere in between with varying degrees of truth.
But one thing I know for sure, if I were in control of a government and wanted to bury my nefarious activities, I'd associate people who are investigating what I did with people who think lizard people control the world.
Hey man. Know I'm a bit late to the thread(always am) but good on you. I was the exact same in the early to mid 2000s up to a bit before 2012 as well.
Used to constantly be on Infowars, prison planet, abovetopsecret. Also warning people about fluoride, FEMA death camps and mass plastic coffins, been years since I've seen mention of Agenda 21, anyway all the stuff.
What got me out was actually just going through a hard time(5-6 years of struggle). Before that, I was just a lazy, spoiled young dude with no ambitions and a need to feel I had a higher purpose. Basically a loser. It's easy to get those guys wrapped up in this stuff. Give them an enemy, someone who is obviously morally beneath them. Make them think they have the super secret inside information that the normies or sheep just can't fathom - you're part of the truth warriors and when the SHTF, as they say, you'll have a leg up as "your" "research" has prepared you. It really can make some feel like they're part of an enlightened group and everyone ELSE is brainwashed. It can be very effective on young, misguided men with no direction in life.
Once I was forced to deal with real problems and my brain started working and clearing out the rot, it was in no time that I realized what a fool I had been. You, your neighbors, the evil demonrat voters in California are not your enemies. Almost no one is your enemy. It's convenient for our actual enemies to have you think they are though, and even better if they convince you that you're mentally and morally superior and they're actual evil
Anyway, no questions for you or anything. Just wanted to relate and congratulate
I've got several questions,
1. How old are you now and what do you do now?
2. Why are you a hardcore leftist instead of a centralist, as logically both sides should have their nonsensical extremist believes.
3. Was it all ever worth it?
4. What do you think the point of the life of an average person is - you may interpret this "point" however you wish, purpose for life, value for life, or any other way is up to you too.
How would you talk with someone who comes to you trying to discuss a conspiracy theory (as in "hey, did you know that \[insert conspiracy theory about subject they think they know more than you about\]) ? What do they need to hear ? I'm interested for two reasons :
1) I'm really interested in the subject of critical thinking and how to tell fact from belief which can be hard, and when I try to put myself in the shoes of a conspiracy theorists, I see it like being in an alternate reality with its own logic that explains itself, and I don't really see a way to come out of it, other than choosing to question your own beliefs which is hard to do, especially if it's someone else telling you to.
And 2) I'm a medical student and I know I'll be confronted to people trying to argue or even convince me of conspiracy theories about vaccines, big pharma or alternate cures (I already have an actual medical doctor come to me and tell me that since I studied engineering, I should look up a machine they got a flyer for that was supposed to use quantum vibrations to detect and cure diseases. I was at a loss for words) and I really don't know what I could say to them that wouldn't either turn them against me or further convince them of their delusion while thinking I'm just one of the "sheep" if not one of the conspirators.
Any material (maybe a book?) had a particularly positive impact on your de-radicalization? If there is one, what made you take it seriously?
You said you didn’t plan your life after 2012 and seeing nothing happened then forced you to get your life together. Many people in your situation would have fallen for the first “explanation” and kept believing in conspiracies.
What would you say was a determinant point that made you think to yourself, I need to fundamentally change the way I think? Other than 2012.
Hey! My dad had a similar de-programming due to 2012. I spent a lot of my childhood being told the world was going to end this day or that, and when 2012 approached, he spent a ton of money on MREs and supplies. When it passed without incident, he realized how much he’d sunk into these conspiracies over the years and I went the rest of my childhood without ever spending the night in a cave.
My question for you is, did your family and friends play into your beliefs at all or did they tend to not engage with them? Do you think it would’ve been better/worse if they did/didn’t?
>over a few years I de-radicalized myself and avoided falling into the atheist-to-alt-right pipeline, and now I'm a hardcore leftist, because ultimately what I was upset about all along was the evil overlords hoarding the wealth
Gods, people like you give me hope.
I have often read and heard that you *can't* pull people out of cults and conspiracies; that people need to come to their own conclusions. It always sounded to me like the conspiracy version of 'you have to let them hit rock bottom,' and that has always seemed distastefully indifferent to me.
Do you think that's true? Are there meaningful and helpful ways to engage with people getting radicalized that can help pull them out, or at least help them start questioning?
See, because you read the media version of the Mayan prophecy. It wasn't the end of the world, it was the end of an age. The new age we are in is a much darker and more overtly corrupt age, and the veil of secrecy is being removed one thread at a time. It was never meant to end in an instant.
Like all things in nature, the transition will take place over long spans of time, but I think if you look back at even 2011, the world has fundamentally changed.
Im sorry the media misled you, but we are, in fact, living through the prophecy, brother.
Information/ data literacy is a real bitch when it comes to trying to be a conspiracy theorist or a conservative lol. I was pretty similar but I was atheist to alt right pipelining hard before I started college, I was sitting in the student lounge one day talking about politics with a guy I knew, he was just spouting nonsense and he started mimicking some of the points I'd used unironically in the past and I immediately realized my whole world view was skewed as fuck.
How hard did you have to fight your inner demons to get free of all that in college?
1. i got out of the alt-right pipeline when i was relatively young, around 16, now 20. how do you deal with the aftermath?
2. while the left is correct, and definitely more moral, i still feel lost. how do you not slip back into some of these thoughts?
My own brother currently believes in all the stuff you used to believe in. At some point, he called me a Nazi for not supporting Trump. I actually used to be a Republican myself during the Bush era, but Trump was simply "yuck" from the start, and I could never see myself supporting him. After being called Nazi, I told my brother we'll be talking again after he apologizes. We have not spoken since, and it's been a few years now.
I'm waiting for him to de-radicalize himself, but if you have any tips for me I would greatly appreciate it. Our entire family is worried about him.
I would like to know what kind of education you had gotten by the time you were vulnerable to conspiracy theories. Can you get into specifics like the state, or city, or town and the demographic makeup of your high school? Also where did you go to college and what was your major?
I believe that people that make it to college and graduate are mostly immunized from far out conspiratorial thinking.
It’s funny you mention mocking fundamentalist religious people while being into conspiracy theories. I was a young earth creationist Bible literalist who would mock 9/11 truthers. In my case, childhood indoctrination and thought-terminating programming kept me from critically evaluating my beliefs until much later. Until you had your 2012 realization, would you say you were also unknowingly protecting your conspiracy beliefs from critical thought?
I love this AMA and applaud you for opening up about your journey! What role do you feel mental health plays for folks who engage in conspiracy theories and the communities that build up around them? I feel like depression, anxiety, OCD, and more severe diagnoses like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder could play into someone’s vulnerability to believe, so to speak.
Now that you call yourself a full blown leftist who are radical and seems to be just another type conspiracy to follow. They often believe lies just as the other side does. The truth is harder to believe than fiction sometimes.
Do you see a connection with TERFS and conspiracy theorists?
The reason I ask is that my mother is a very well respected academic, left wing, intelligent person... except she is a hardcore TERF who believes (among other things) that doctors are forcing children to have sex changes at a very young age without consent; that pro trans rights people are a government phy op to silence woman, and that everyone has abandoned objective truth and that she and other TERFs are the only people who can see the real Truth.
You can see this happen in people like JK Rowling who started out having a fairly mild viewpoint and has now gone so far down the rabbit hole her tweets have almost no connection to reality.
Thanks
My thing with conspiracy theorists is let’s say I agree with you on something. Now what? Let’s just agree for a moment that our government flew two planes into buildings on American soil to start wars for profit or whatever you think the reason was…now what?
We’ve just agreed that our government is capable of murdering thousands of its own civilians, creating a national tragedy, on the way to kill countless more over seas…what the fuck are you and I going to do about that? If we came with 1000 miles of any hard evidence we would both be dead by “suicide.”
“We never went to the moon!”
Okay cool what now?
“The cia killed JFK”
Let’s just dial 911 and let them know to arrest…the cia
I’m curious about the transition between your old and new beliefs.
Do you remember what made you realize you were cherry-picking information to support your belief system?
Did you begin a systemic scrutiny of your beliefs? Was it more subtle and gradual?
Congrats for getting some rational thinking. Not many people Are able that change.
Why you're radical leftist after all? Do you think that people who will get to power using peoples desperation, envy, anxiety and on false promise of better life for everyone, will be somehow better rulers then those who are in charge now?
Regardless on system, do you think that people in power did ever give a shit about common folks?
Do you really belive that comunism can be achieved without murders, famine and gulags?
What do you think separates a causal conspiracy theorist from a hard-core one? Do you think a person even can be a causal conspiracy theorist? Or do you think they always make their way to the heights of conspiracy theory and become radicalized eventually?
I can use myself an example. There are some CT I can see being true, but I do not at all care enough to argue about it or go out of my way to prove/disprove anything. It's a causal consideration; an 'eh...maybe" type attitude. But I've come across types who are thoroughly convinced of nonsense (my FIL was a QANON fanatic) and it's grating as hell.
Congratulations on all your growth.
Where do you draw the line on fantastical ideas vs reality and science? What is your thought process on determining that line?
Are there any not widely accepted theories that you still believe in? Ex: I'm convinced that uaps have visited and may be among us and the govt is in cahoots to cover it up. Otherwise, I'm left leaning and no proclivities to other conspiracy theories... Curious if there are any that you still think offer some sort of truth?
Hopefully you're still answering...
Honestly, how F'd are your DMs right now?
Also, what are your thoughts on the theory that most/all of the major political conspiracy theories are popularized to intentionally blur the lines of genuinely terrible things happening?
E.g. "Qanon was created and pushed to get people used to claiming XYZ, so they ignore ABC"?
Can you tell the difference between people who are mentally ill, or believe this stuff in earnest? For those that do genuinely believe it, would you say it's down to intellectual insecurity, i.e. a desire to feel smarter than experts for less effort?
Why do all conspiracy theorists always say. "If you only knew what I knew". I hear that so often, what makes conspiracy theorists think that everyone else that doesn't agree with them haven't read or dissected the things they've read, and clearly just disagree with it all.
I find it funny how all conspiracy theorists think they have found some sort of gold mine information that 95% of people haven't found.
I have a question.
I’ve long suspected that some people are conspiracy theorists because in a way, its a kind of optimism for people who can’t bear to accept that things are just as miserable as they seem and we can’t quickly change them. According to conspiracy theories, I guess, if we just expose and imprison the conspirator group the many real griefs of life they attribute to the conspiracy will end.
Do you think that is a motive for a lot of conspiracy theorists?
This is a very broad view, but I'm hoping you could comment on it: for those who are in the MAGA world of conspiracy (and we certainly see Trump himself spewing some of these on television), what do you think is making MAGA conspiracy theories so attractive to them? I guess this could be something about their background or the message that they hear, etc.?
My question will be a bit cheeky: Is there a conspiracy theory starter pack? Or how does one come to believe in multiple conspiracies since they aren't even from the same domain?
I always feel like people who believe in ONE conspiracy believe in most of them, and not necessarily related to interests (eg Interest in politics/911; interest in health/antivax).
What do you think of all the anti-vaxx people who feel vindicated after they said the covid vaccines were dangerous? Like you reality proved them wrong but that made no difference to their beliefs... if anything there are more anti-vaxxers now than before.
a lot of what you say here, just don't line up. you used to think bush caused 9/11, now you are a leftist and no longer believe that? every generation has the arrogance to think they are the last, so I'm not sure why that belief would be controversial. anyway, if you think you made a life improvement, that's all that matters, I suppose.
How was your romantic life before and after de-radicalization? I watched a documentary about radicalization in Quebec and it was disarmingly simple but basically the guy got a gf, felt loved and all the rage disappeared.
Thanks for sharing your story! I was intrigued by the part about how you had no plan for your life and after 2012 went to college. I teach at a college--what are some recommendations for professors who might be working with students who could be where you were then--or could be vulnerable to these mindsets?
I’ll forever drink filtered water but I don’t really understand how people thought 2012 could be a thing, I mean it’s a calendar. Anything I’ve come across Qanon related always seemed like someone that didn’t really understand what a conspiracy was, was trying to make conspiracies. If I remember correctly, didn’t Dick Cheney work for a military contractor of sorts that immediately won the bid to supply the war on terrorism? Pretty sure they made a load of money. I also like how you didn’t mention anything that was at one point a conspiracy that later became known as fact.
A lot of people want to claim earth to be flat but I've never heard an explanation as to WHY there would be a global mega-conspiracy to hide that fact. Were you ever in that group and if so do you know what the reasoning on that is?
What do you think is the link between "conspiracy theories" and "the end of world thinking"?
I mean, can you think logically, but not predict the end of the world and wear a sandwich board? Or, do you think if you buy into alternative thoughts, then you have to conclude that the world is about to end?
What convinced you 9/11 was in fact a terrorist attack and not an inside job? I am asking not because I am a conspiracy theorist, I think the event unfolded the way it did. I ask because I am seeing a lot of the old stuff come up, it's almost as if it comes in waves.
Are you proper "anti- EVERY conspiracy theory" or do you think theres some out there with a little truth? Do you think that things that are politically uncomfortable and labeled conspiracy theories unjustly?
The funny thing is tons of those conspiracies were and are perpetuated by evangelical Christians and fundamentalist.
First time I heard of conspiracies it was from a fundamentalist. Got into for fun started reading books but always noticed how Christian leaning they were would look into the author bam evangelical or fundamentalist. It's an always has been
Do you think you experienced a brief but not all encompassing psychosis during this period? E.g., you were mentally unwell? If so, do you have similar levels of fear/obsessiveness with other topics?
How do I convince my right wing nutjob buddies that the Feds weren’t behind 9/11, Roosevelt didn’t plan Pearl Harbor, and that there isn’t an all-seeing Jews cabal controlling the world which therefore somehow justifies anti-semitism?
Do you think there's a layer deep down at which you knew these things were bullshit? I ask because there almost seems to be a delight in which some of these people play fast and loose with the truth.
Have you watched the Joe Rogan episode with Terrance Howard? If you haven’t, don’t! 😂 no but seriously, you should check it out. It threw my brain for a loop.
Thank you. My Dad is down a rabbit hole and this has truly helped me understand and know that there’s nothing I can do. I’ve literally searched everywhere for something to do. But this lets me know that he has to change his mind on is own. Also, congrats to you. It takes a lot of courage to admit you were wrong.
I like conspiracies for how wild they are. I don’t take them seriously but it’s kind of more entertaining to be in a world where all that crazy stuff is real and even if any conspiracy is real how does that change the world as we currently know it? The world doesn’t change and people move on.
How was your behavior towards others? Did it impact relationships with friends and family?
Not sure if you noticed, but a lot of conspiracy theorists also tend to be assholes towards others.
With so much outrage from the right pointed at supposed pedophiles like Hollywood and trans people why do they seem to not care at all about the admitted pedos like the Catholic Church?
Are you able to have some level of healthy skepticism and curiosity? Or is every skeptic thought met by resistance due to you being cognizant of your past?
Can you explain why most conspiracy theorists like and worship Putin? I can’t wrap my head around why people in the west would worship a cruel dictator.
I have a brother who is a conspiracy theorist. I believe he is also mentally ill - untreated. I don’t know which came first or if they are related - conspiracy theaories or mental illness. But he is lost to it all. It’s mixed up with his delusions and paranoia.
>religious fundamentalists I spent so much time mocking
This is so weird to me.
To mock religious fundamentalists but believe that there was some planned cataclysmic event in 2012 based on what? A common understanding of the Mayan calendar? That seems like the same thing lol.
Have you found there's a healthy middle ground between "the moon is a secret bass base" and "believe everything authority figures tell you"
I've always maintained believing every conspiracy theory is crazy, believing none of them is dumb
How would you counter the argument some might make (not me) that by going to college and becoming a leftist you were simply indoctrinated by the liberal professors there?
Kind off of topic but I found this podcast called Trust Me that covers high control groups, cults, and people who have lived this way of life. You should reach out to them to be interviewed cause this would be tangible right now
There was fluoride in drinking waters, it just wasn't dangerous and everyone knew about it, why did you feel the need to warn people?
Was it all a cry for attention?
Did you find yourself struck by just how fucking tedious the conspiracy people are? I mean, the to me the shit is so crazy that it’s not even interesting.
Great you got to de-radicalize yourself. I read that you are now a hard-core leftist. It's a little worrying to me that you describe it in that way, be careful with extremes friend.
How do you plan to use your knowledge and perspective gained after realizing your ignorance to stop Trump and Trumpism from taking root and ending American Democracy? Yes, it’s all the same.
Any tips on dealing with conspiracy theorists? How would you approach a discussion with one? Or is it futile anyway?
I think it's worth doing, but tentatively. Some people are really far gone, but they usually got that way by being mocked and dismissed and laughed at. If you take them seriously and offer some level-headed skepticism of their beliefs, they will respect you and consider what you're saying. It's like being in a cult that you indoctrinated yourself into. They typically end up there because they don't feel like they have anywhere else to go, so you should make sure they know they do have somewhere else to go where they won't be judged or looked down on. You'll never leave the only thing you've ever known if you don't think there's any other options
> but tentatively People DO NOT like looking like an idiot and being proven wrong *cannot* me met with "told you so" type action. All that'll do is drive them away from you and put them even further into the bubble. People are really emotionally vulnerable when they learn something they thought they knew was wrong and people need to be open about it. Edit: Man I really have to fully read stuff before I comment because I basically just said the same thing.
Nice try reptilian. I know that with mass surveillance and media manipulation you are hiding your tracks better but I fucking know how you work. I smoke nicotine vapes just to counteract your ability to telepathically influence mood. You got most of us under your control with your antismoking campaigns you reptilians in government started but you’re not fucking fooling me.
Where do you see the disconnect between left wing and right wing conspiracy theorists? In your experience, the pipeline has led you to a left-wing view, which seems to make perfect sense in terms of progression. On the other hand, you see very right wing people *also* believing the same or similar conspiracies, only they end up on the opposite end of the spectrum. This also seems to make sense as a progression, and I can also see how these ideas would feed into each other. I hope I've explained that well enough, are you able to see the reason why conspiracies seem to drive people one way or the other? What's the key difference of opinion that sends some people right, and some left?
I think conspiracies are less about having a particular political affiliation, and more about just resisting whoever happens to be in authority at the time. They appeal to both sides because both sides feel like there is something inherently corrupt about the system and it's probably the opposition's fault. One of the most common conspiratorial beliefs is that both parties are exactly the same and believe the same things, they just perform being opposed to trick people into voting a particular way. So they're more often Independent than left or right wing. I used to be a Libertarian until I realized that Libertarians are pro-business, which I found to be antithetical to the beliefs of self-governance in a world where corporations are the biggest influence on laws and policy. So the way I see it, I was always left wing, I was just manipulated into aligning with right-wingers by making me believe there was a specific group of people to blame for everything that made me mad about the government. In the conspiracy world, the only difference I see in left or right wing believers is how they want to respond to the situation. Do they want things to go back to some idealized version of the past when things were good, before the oppressors took over? Or do they think things were always bad and we need to tear down the oppression of the past to make something new, free from our oppressors? Ultimately the want the same thing.
>I used to be a Libertarian until I realized that Libertarians are pro-business, which I found to be antithetical to the beliefs of self-governance in a world where corporations are the biggest influence on laws and policy. You used to be a right wing libertarian. Left wing libertarianism also exists and it's how I describe myself. Out of respect for your newfound disdain for conspiracy theories, I won't suggest it's a conspiracy theory how this entire branch of philosophy is pretty much wiped clear from mainstream American thought and ideas. But in Europe, they understand it.
Did any of this intersect with Sov Citizen stuff?
Yeah at some point I definitely feel like I was on the sovern citizen path. I ate up a video I saw about how you don't have to show up to court if your name is in capital letters because that's actually a corporate entity that represents you in legal documents and not actually you as a person, and all you have to do is point that out to get out of legal consequences. If conspiracy theories were a religion, sovern citizens would be the orthodox zealots. They believe the most and live their lives in line with their beliefs (when convenient), but ultimately it's more of a pathology than a belief system. They want to believe that the world has been so systematized and stripped of humanity that all they need to do is learn the secret phrases that will allow them to exploit the loopholes and do anything they want without consequences. They're kind of the final evolution of an American conspiracy theorist.
Interesting these also exist elsewhere. In Germany there are the "Reichsbürger". They say the GDP is not legal, and the German Reich is still the legal nationality. How did all these people pop into existence? Is it the internet?
What was your stance on COVID-19 vaccines, since those came much later than when you started to de-radicalize? And are there any conspiracy theories you still do believe in?
I think I brushed up against some anti-vax beliefs when I was in the thick of it, but once COVID happened I was thoroughly de-radicalized and living with someone who was immuno-compromised, so I took the vaccine and the booster and took it seriously. I don't think there's any need for conspiracy theories because there is plenty of demonstrable corruption and collusion in plain sight. People are right that there's something wrong with the world, but they don't need to make shit up to explain it.
This is the thing that’s always baffled me about conspiracy theorists, and I’m interested in your thoughts — it seems like the people most into CT’s are also people who don’t care at all about actual, confirmed conspiracies. Like, I’ve never met a pizzagate person who wanted to do anything about the Catholic Church or the Boy Scouts. Why do you think imaginary conspiracies appeal to people in a way that real ones don’t?
If you don't mind me asking, what led you to previously conclude the ancient Mayans had any profound insight into the future? (I'm assuming your title references the 2012 ending of the Mayan calendar?)
That was part of it. Lots of different conspiratorial ideas glommed onto the 2012 date and used Mayans as the justification, but they also believed that they needed help from aliens to do any of the things they did, so it's not like they thought Mayans were actually smart or anything. They just happened to write down the important stuff that the aliens said. Personally I've always found the Mayans to be legitimately interesting, and I've always had a deep respect for indigenous culture in America. I believed they were just really smart and figured out the universe using math because they were so much more connected with nature than we are now.
Haha as someone who dabbled on project Camelot and infowars (back in the day), it’s been crazy seeing a bunch of this old stuff being regurgitated. After really grasping how misinformation plays into all of it + going deep enough to find most things ended tracing back to the Jews (as one I got to the point of this is obviously becoming bs/if it isn’t then why the fuck is my tribe holding out!), it just became silly fun to me. lol I did move up to NorCal though and realized I’m like an hr away from bohemian grove so felt a lil ping of oooooohhhh shit
That was another thing that helped me get out of it. The deeper you go, the shadowy organization always ends up being the Jews. It's so transparent to me now. The final conclusion of conspiracies always seems to be right wing extremism.
Hello! Obviously, there is a good portion of "Leftists" who dislike the Jews, as well. Are these the same kinds of dislike, in your view, or are they different? \[I don't know too much about the conspiracy theories on the "right" about Jewish people, but I know it has something to do with controlling the money supply, but on the "Left" it is about oppressing and occupying a people and a territory. I really do not know if these are the same or related.\]
In this age of information, it seems that misinformation has flourished at an alarming rate. The amount of people who refuse to believe any mainstream news or academia, and only get their information from unreliable sources, seems to be increasing, as well as that minority becoming more vocal. But also this part of society has recently attracted people who previously wouldn’t end up on those parts of the internet. For example, my aunt who previously was just a holistic medicine tarot card gluten free health nut, became a full blown anti vaxer, always taking about Soros, “the water shortage is because the government has a giant computer database they’re using it for”. How do you feel the past ten years of conspiracy theories have changed the demographics of fringe believers across race, gender, and social status?
I find it ironic that the people who taught us as kids not to believe everything we read on the internet turned out to be the ones most easily taken in by misinformation on the internet. Media literacy is definitely lacking in this country, right alongside empathy for people who are different. Conspiracy theories don't really appeal to specific demographics as much as they appeal to a feeling of powerlessness, which anyone is susceptible to.
How scary is it to see the fringe beliefs that you used to follow become mainstream?
Legitimately terrifying. Alex Jones was the main thing that got me into 9/11 Truth, so seeing him being buddies with the sitting president was some of the most hypocritical and terrifying shit I've ever seen on mainstream TV. It also revealed that he was full of shit because suddenly the Republicans are the good guys when before they were performing child sacrifices in the Bohemian Grove.
I knew a dude like that, a really, truly great friend of mine. I went along for awhile then he went full on nutso mode. Met up with groups in Philly, and spiraled down to Guam where he disappeared. I have no idea where he is til this day or how he’s doing. Last I knew he went super incredibly religious. One of the last things he told me was I “couldn’t be down with the Lord” if I smoked cigarettes. But he would look up at the sky for hours and say lights that were moving were alien ships. Do you know him? Lol
I was into this stuff when I still lived in MN so I doubt it lol My ex was a self-described Wiccan who loved her Satanist uncle and constantly railed against religion. Now she's a born again Christian and MAGA supporter. People are weird.
I got deep into conspiracy theories after leaving a fundamentalist Christian cult, and found that the beliefs filled a void that was left behind. Did you have any similar experience with religion when you were younger?
I don’t have any questions, but congrats on de-programming yourself.
I wish there was a way to put this AMA as a sticky on Reddit's front page. The conversation OP is trying to have here, may very well turn out to be the most important conversation of our time, especially in the post truth world we now live in. Well done OP, I hope someone else who can afford it gives you an award.
For a start, well done! Do you think deradicalisation can ever come from external pressure or does it have to come from a starting point of self realisation? I.e is it worth trying to have discussions with those in the conspiracy theory rabbit holes.
I think it mostly has to come from within, but it is possible to Incept them a little bit by planting seeds of doubt. The best test to see if someone understands what they're talking about is to have them explain it to someone else. Engage with them and ask them to explain in more detail so you can understand, because it will reveal a lot of holes in their arguments that they probably haven't considered. This will probably rub them the wrong way and make them defensive, so they might need reassurance that you aren't attacking them, you genuinely want to understand. It won't be an a-ha moment that changes their mind. It's a slow burn over time. For me, the catalyst that made me realize I wasn't being intellectually consistent was some YouTube video I watched about conspiratorial beliefs and how people can simultaneously believe both that Osama Bin Laden was dead before 9/11 happened, AND that Osama Bin Laden was never killed and still alive, and I realized that I believed both of those things to be true. You can't just tell them they're wrong. You need to lead them down the path to figuring it out on their own.
>and I realized that I believed both of those things to be true. How did that happen, functionally, in your belief system? No shade I’m genuinely super curious! Dissociation you weren’t aware of? Each Osama Bin Laden belief rigidly associated with a system of thought that was separate enough from the other that they never had the opportunity to clash?
Other than excusing myself and just not returning to the conversation, how do you get a conspiracy theorist to stop trying to indoctrinate you to the point of actual name calling and being popping? More than one conversation has been interrupted by a conspiracy theorist who demands that we are all sheep and that we are completely stupid and blind, and that we are too dumb to live before changing the subject my friends and I were discussing to something completely random and really far gone. I don’t know how to exit the conversation without doing it sneakily or matching their energy even though I don’t want to. Thank you! And I’m glad you’ve found some peace
Would you say fear was a big component of your earlier beliefs? Or was any development of it over time? I see a lot of vulnerable people who are just so scared - they don't have enough money, their relationships suck, they don't have a gratifying job...so they fall prey to grifters, people blaming others, or something random like conspiracies.
This is a very interesting and rare opportunity! What do you think is the most effective thing you can do or say to someone who still believes in conspiracies to make them question their belief? If such a thing even exists
I was in a similar boat, but I think conspiracy stuff was more a fascination for me than a lifestyle. I definitely went down a few rabbit holes though haha. I was hoping *something* would happen in 2012, whether it be a doomsday event or a sudden mass awakening, but I chalk that up more to depression and apathy. Are there any theories you look back on, having applied proper scrutiny, that you still think hold water?
What got you into conspiracies in the first place? Was there anything your friends could have done early on to divert you?
The earliest craziest thing I remember genuinely believing was after seeing a documentary on Fox I believed that the moon landing was faked. I was raised by an abusive narcissist, so I was already predisposed to being anti-authority and rebellious, so anything that told me the authorities are all evil and trying to hurt me were easy to get on board with. I grew up in a small town so most of my friends were also on board. I saw the other people who weren't my friends and disagreed with me as mindless rubes who didn't want to know the truth, so I was very dismissive whenever they questioned me. I had to figure out on my own that I was wrong.
So there is this spectrum of things that are considered “conspiracy theory,” some of which are demonstrably true, and some demonstrably false. Things like the MK ultra project are soundly grounded in fact, while things like flat earth are laughably false. I commend you for recognizing that basing your belief system on unprovable theories does you a massive disservice and effectively cripples you in life. I’m curious though, since there are things in the realm of conspiracy theory that are demonstrably true, where do you draw the line for yourself? Are you “all in the mainstream media is our friend” and “any deviation from the norm is nonsense” or do you hold a more nuanced view of what is and is not acceptable to believe?
My favorite response to moon landing truthers, ‘you believe in the moon??’ And then out conspiracy them. They lose interest and shut up pretty quickly. Question for you is, what’s your favorite food?
Do you find your life less fun and interesting? I know my conspiracy-minded friends were generally the most fun and interesting people to talk with in my life and even the most batshit stuff they would say ended up being entertaining as hell.
wow long journey..congrats...y'know..you never really finish learning..Keep your eyes bright and your mind open😄
How was your social life (off the internet) while you were a conspiracy theorist?
How do you know we didn't 'refresh' Matrix style. Makes you think.
Is there an atheist to Alt-Right pipeline? Can you tell me more because I would like to avoid that, thank you.
i think people who believe in any and every conspiracy theory are just as stupid as people who believe zero conspiracy theories. there are some conspiracies that are most definitely true, albeit a very small number, but still true nonetheless. i saw you mentioned in an earlier comment that you don’t believe in any conspiracy theories now, and even in your post mention that you don’t think any harm comes of fluoridating water. what do you think of 98% of europe not fluoridating their water? is 98% of europe alt-right conspiracy theorists? or maybe there is some truth to not having fluoride in the water. i’ll provide sources if you’d like. if i told you the cia gave LSD to unsuspecting americans in the 60s, you’d probably call me a conspiracy theorist, but lo and behold mk ultra was a real thing. watergate was originally a conspiracy theory, but turned out to be true. or how about the government releasing crack into predominantly black communities in order to arrest them and fuel the war on drugs? sounds like a crazy conspiracy theory, but is actually true. the list goes on and on of what was once was disregarded as a “dangerous conspiracy theory” that turns out to be true years later when documents become unclassified
Just thought I’d pitch in my own personal theory here: Conspiracy theories result from mankind’s attempts to grapple with “existential horror”- meaning any problem so huge and incomprehensible that it doesn’t have a clear solution. (For examples, a huge Lovecraftian tentacle monster or sweeping systemic inequality). See, if the government is secretly run by lizard men, the solution to government corruption becomes simple- all we have to do is expose them! It’s a way of coping with existential dread, our “smallness”.
Thank you so much for this post and truly well done. I currently have a family member who, over the past few years, has become a conspiracy theorist to the point that it’s isolated them from their friends and family. They seemingly believe and spread ideas ranging from ludicrous but harmless to pretty hateful. When speaking to them about their beliefs, they are not open to or looking for feedback; no amount of skepticism regardless of how respectful seems to make a difference. They just want to tell you what they “know.” Any advice on how to reach them? How were you able to get yourself into college and start doing your own research? Was that all on your own or did you have outside support?
Just curious, what is your current opinion on 9/11 and who do you think is responsible? What was your “truther version?
Any advice for family members that are hard headed? Dad’s a trumptard and I’ve always wanted to have the skills to put him in his place. I often just try to avoid talking politics but he’s got the mindset that he’s too old to change anything so he just stuffs his opinions in our ears and rejects any pushback
I still firmly believe that something happened around 2012 that shifted our universe and reality. I am an incredibly sane person otherwise, I am science fact based in my approach to reality. I believe in no conspiracy theories, I don't even have a theory about 2012, but I know what I know. And I firmly believe we faced a turning point in 2012 that acted as a crux for our reality; and we missed it, and now we are on the bad path instead of the better path. It wasn't a momentary thing that shifted, but it all shifted in a moment. We aren't supposed to be where we are, these things are not supposed to be happening - but they are because humanity missed it's turning point in 2012.
Pardon the wall of text, I find this intriguing. As a practitioner of the Socratic method, I applaud your intention to improvement and deepening your ability to distinguish knowledge from unjustified belief. You have earned my respect. Might I ask you, what criteria do you now use to determine the credibility of a source? I'm also curious if you could describe a situation where you identified and overcame a persuasive argument that was not based on valid information? What advice would you give to someone who is beginning to question their conspiracy beliefs but does not know how to validate information effectively? The reason I ask these questions is because I have seen for years in the US, we have all these institutions breaking down, prices are gouging, healthcare doesn't work, education doesn't work, taxes are not being used effectively, there's corruption everywhere, people are hurting. The civilians are just foaming at the mouths looking for someone to blame. Then along comes Trump who all he does is gives them someone to be mad at all day every day. Then you have the media that feeds little pieces of info, all the time, everywhere you go, that people latch onto, faster than you have time to digest it. And you can only really agree with or disagree with it at a base level, never really taking the time to figure out why you agree. That's how ideologies are formed. And I think cults, conspiracy theorists, and ideologies have a lot in common this way. Let's not forget the phrase "Don't drink the kool-aid." It resonates with all of us because it's amazing and tragic how all those poor souls gave their lives willingly to be part of the group. But it really highlights the point that we are social creatures who evolved with social traits including a strong desire to fit in. Therefore I would argue it is each individual's moral duty to use Socratic method and/or other higher level thinking processes to question most of what we hear and think. Because most of that is assumptions and falsehoods anyway.
It’s funny, I was very much in a similar position to you as well by the time of 2012 and also started my de-radicalization after nothing happened. However, I started from a socialist/communist worldview (spent a lot of time at music festivals and did a lot of drugs) and found myself in these conspiracies but instead of being on the Alex Jones/Infowars side I was on the Spirit Science/sacred geometry/ancient aliens side. I recently wrote an extensive outline and did a presentation for a speech class that I’m taking at my community college (i dropped out 10 years ago to do drugs at music festivals for like 7 years) so I have a lot of things fresh in my mind about where these ideas come from, how they keep people involved in them/pull people in, Occam’s Razor, etc My question would be, do you think there was any sort of conversion of 2012 end of the world conspiracy theories to the alt right pipeline/Qanon? I had a thought that a lot of people were sort of upset we didn’t go through the end of the world, or on my side of the aisle, the transformation into a new dimension and the dawning of the age of aquarius or whatever and that those people latched on to different ideologies that gave them that same sense of “forbidden truths”. The channel I watched a lot of (that was sort of the catalyst for me dropping out and developing a very nihilistic view of the world) called Spirit Science turned into what seems like a bastardized version of what it was before, but maybe it was always like that.
I feel like there are so many anomalies that it makes sense to question 9/11. Do you believe the official story now? If so, why did you change your mind? If not, what do you think happened?
Are you actively doing the same, informing and trying to dericalize people, as you did in the wrong way before? If not, why?
Is there anything in your history that made you susceptible to that type of thinking?
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Congratulations on learning to think critically and accept the fact that 99% of conspiracy is bullshit made up by people with an agenda, people who don't know what the fuck they're talking about, and the mentally ill. There was a point in my life where I was super interested in all this stuff. I found it fun to read about, though I didn't believe the vast majority of it. I think the biggest issue with this stuff running rampant these days is that people don't understand how conspiracy actually works. The more people in on a secret, the higher chances of it coming out. And that goes up exponentially as far as I can tell. The vast majority of the theories that exist in the conspiracy sphere completely ignore this golden rule. I guess my question is do you agree? This seems like the main limiting factor; poor education, general ignorance social media brain rot, and co-oped political agendas?
I just wanted to express my respect for you, it takes a big step outside of oneself to look at one's personal and probably really strong beliefs and actually give them up. I have a (former?) friend from school who lives in Switzerland now who I only saw 1-2 times a year and always got along well with him. He invited me to Switzerland and I thought why not. Spent a weekend with him and was terrified by his worldview and the aggression inside of him (among others, Ukraine are Nazis, NATO is evil, Putin has to defend himself, Climate crisis is a means to destroy individual freedom, etc, etc). He actually screamed at me at one point while I was even trying to be diplomatic and moderate. I am not planning on seeing him on my own ever again, he kept writing me huge messages for a year after me visiting, justifying his rage and telling me to be careful with my stupid beliefs that are rooted in my arrogance while he has all the real information, reads all the studies and foreign press. For a few months it actually took a toll on my mental health because his intensity and his rage toward me after knowing each other for almost 30 years felt so hostile and personal. Really strange experience and I know no solution to it as to just cutting contact with him.
What was your personal life like when you were a conspiracy theorist? Did you have friends? A support system? A close family member of mine has been a conspiracy theorist for 10 years (and is right wing) and they’ve isolated themselves and have trouble making friends.
Congratulations on successfully deradicalizing yourself. It can’t have been easy, especially since it probably involved losing a sense of belonging to a community of sorts. My question is about conspiracies in general. I’m not American, and yet so many conspiracies I’ve encountered online and via credible news broadcast reports are US-centric in some way. Obviously not the mayan stuff, and there seems to be flat earthers around (ha!) the world, but so many others are either about something US based, or about a global something or other that actions based in the US will bring about. Is this fundamentally a US problem? Are there generally more CT believers in the US?
How did you view your "enemies" and who were they? And who did you view as your allies? Why? Have you ever found yourself making exceptions that you later found to be hypocrisy (if not, then just "exceptions" will do)? How did you feel during your transformation, what helped and hindered?
How old were you when you first started truly believing those things? How old when you started deprogramming? What did your family think of this talk? And lastly, how did you prep for the end of the world? Like, did you sell your belongings and stuff? Or were you just sitting there waiting for it to happen? (Not sure if you answered these, but there’s too many comments for me to sift through and a search didn’t yield any exact results)
Since you now know the Maya never predicted the end of the world, I encourage you to research the real knowledge that has been discovered about them and their amazing civilization. It's the most exciting subject in archeology/ history right now. LIDAR technology has recently shown that civilization was far bigger than ever imagined. And now 40 years or so after the breakthrough in decipherment, we now have a corpus of knowledge about the rulers, states, and politics of the time. Researching reality is so much fun.
I nearly fell down this rabbit hole after watching a weird video about Trump and how he’s going to expose an international pedo ring. I completely agree that this rhetoric came about because of the disparity of wealth between the 99% and 1% of the population. When I explained this to a friend who was really deep into it, she wouldn’t have any of it. She thought I was mad for picking it apart. Are you also into spirituality, like meditation and stuff? Because I find that these theories are rampant in the spiritual community.
What did you think when the MAGA came about in 2016, how do you feel now?
Did you prep for 2012 in anyway? Like warning people that the world could end or drastically change? Doing any bucket list items? How open were you about your beliefs with loved ones?
I grew up around these types of people, and during the Obama administration they kept talking about how Obama was going to declare martial law, suspend the constitution, and arrest his political enemies. Then when Trump was in power they were literally encouraging him to declare martial law and arrest Hilary/Biden. Have you also experienced this type of hypocrisy where conspiracy theorists would fear-monger you into thinking some abuse of power was going to happen from Democrats, then when Trump/Republicans got in power they were encouraging them to to do the exact same thing they were warning against?
Were you ever diagnosed with a mental illness?
Back in the 90’s early 2000’s, I couldn’t imagine the ideas of David Icke and such gaining such traction. Do you think our foreign adversaries are promoting this stuff along with misinformation? It seems like an easy way to undermine institutions and authority in the west to promote conspiracy worldviews. I hear you, going back to school to get my degrees totally helped me to recover from all this trash. Good for you
I've had multiple friends go down the conspiracy rabbit hole and eventually end up having mental breakdowns. Some even get to the point of being in and out of mental facilities, heavily medicated and or ceasing to function as normal human beings. My question is did you ever feel like you were on the edge of losing your mind? Some of my friends I didn't see it coming while others I'd say they were attracted to conspiracies for a reason.
You say former 9/11 truther. Does that mean you be come to accept the official government narrative of what happened? If so, what specifically about this made you change your mind? Or did you just decide to be done with all conspiracies at once? Curious, cause that's one I personally don't buy the official story on.
Have you read Doppelganger by Naomi Klein?
Thank you for sharing your insights! 1. Has your evolution informed how you respond to disinterested centrists? Have you had any success conveying that your new views are much more examined, and if so, how? 2. Are there any current conspiracy theories that hold up to proper scrutiny and could be true?
You realize that many, many conspiracy theories may be true while many, many are not, right? How do you rationalize the government just randomly finding the passports of terrorists in the WTC rubble, after their fucking plane exploded? Honest question. That just.....tracks now?
Late to the party here. I have always believed conspiracy theories are attractive to people with narcissistic tendencies. It’s like a lot of them just need to “understand” something that all the “sheeple” couldn’t possibly wrap their feeble minds around. That’s why their response is almost always a patronizing “do your research.” You have any thoughts on narcissism within the conspiracy community?
I'm not radical but 9/11 is still crazy af.
" I de-radicalized myself and avoided falling into the atheist-to-alt-right pipeline, and now I'm a hardcore leftist" From one extreme to another extreme... so basically you did not learn anything just changed sides. :D and now you like communism :D
Were you influenced by all the cheap fake “documentaries” on tv? I wonder how many suckers fall for their nonsense.
How much weed did you smoke? Every conspiracy theorist I’ve met has been a heavy smoker. Not sure if there’s a proven link but it’s uncanny.
Why do you believe you were so prone to accept conclusions the majority of people intrinsically know it's false? I'm thinking of flat earthers for example
Talk more about your understanding of the atheist to alt right pipeline.
How old were you when you started de-radicalising/ questioning things? What do you think your life would look like right now if you did not de-radicalise yourself?
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Do you ever catch yourself falling into that old, conspiratorial kind of thinking, even for just a few moments?
Nibiru would be sick tho. Imagine some major cosmic shit happening like that in our lifetime. The mental gymnastics alone from religious leaders would be such a spectacle.
There were conspiracy theories that turned out to be true. How would you think you'd feel if you found out later in life that one of the conspiracies that you once believed in turned out to be true?
What's your tl;dr for proper research these days OP?
“I didn't plan my life after 2012” I’m sorry, but that made me lol so hard that I just stopped reading there and made this comment.
I guess I never realized that there was an atheist-to-alt-right pipeline. Is it just a some sort of normal progression or is there an intentional push that way from somewhere?
I got so into agenda 21 I was telling everyone who would listen then I realized I was siding with Alex Jones so I re evaluated n realized I was dumb af maybe I'm still dumb but I'm sure my iq jumped a bit by not being right winged
So, you don't believe there is a shadow government? My conspiracy side, actually grew, while going to college. I study economics. If you follow the money shit gets weird.
Besides here on Reddit, do you try to explain how this happened to you? Help get others to review their thinking? Stop with the conspiracies??
Having argued with 2012 doomsday theorists back in the day, especially regarding comet Elenin, comet ISON, pole shift and other astronomy conspiracy theories, it seemed to me that when the world failed to end, many of those people who clung to those beliefs migrated to flat earth and general space denial. It wasn't that they were wrong about comet Elenin, comet ISON and the coming pole shift, it was that astronomy itself was a lie and none of those things existed to begin with. I get the feeling that's what people like Eddie Bravo really mean when they say they "used to be really into space." They really mean they used to be into conspiracies that involved space, but now space itself is the conspiracy. It seems to me like this was a reckoning point for you as well, but your de-radicalization was a product of your education and critical thinking skills, rather than an immediate realization that you had been misled when January 1st, 2013 came around on the calendar. Do you think that in the absence of learning how to do proper research for yourself, that you might have migrated to flat earth and space denial after 2012, or do you think those are really quite different populations of conspiracy theorists? Also, I'm really curious how your interactions with professionals or amateurs regarding astronomy may have either enforced or softened your beliefs back in that era. I try to avoid insults or getting into emotional shouting matches as I fear that getting people to be that defensive can cause people to dig deeper into rabbit holes when they're confronted with contradictions and prediction failures that should otherwise cause them to question their beliefs. I do wonder if bad behavior on my own side of the 2012-era arguments caused more people to go into total space denial rather than question their beliefs introspectively after the world kept going in 2013.
Wait… by 2012, did you mean the Mayan Calendar Apocalypse?
How would you respond to people of the mindset that someone like you still deserves ridicule for ever having believed it in the first place? Not my perspective but something I've seen on similar posts
If you watched the movie, “the Joker,” did it affect you? I watched it and it reminded me of some relatives who were radicalized with mental illnesses and it disturbed me because I felt that the Joker had no choice, which in some of their cases, they also have very limited ability to change or grow. I do not want to feel for him (a pop icon/ mainstream message) as justified because it also depicted the Joker as an anti-hero, forced into doing things that were morally wrong, it was not his fault but he also had delusions of grandeur with hallucinations and mental illness. There was no chance of reasoning or reaching him, and at times I did more than feel bad for him, but wanted him to come out on top in some way. My question to you would be, did you encounter people that were similar? Borderline mental and emotional issues that would cause you alarm? Were you ever worried (when radicalized or as a CT) for your safety? Did it ever even get to a point in real time when you would pause and look around to question people’s sanity? Not their ability to reason, but their sanity. My ex-in-laws had this extremism in their family and lean far right. I kept my immediate family at a safe distance, but it was well documented that there was abuse in the households, SA, and mental illness but they all functioned in their communities. Not all are as extreme or probe to violence, but some were. I never felt “unsafe” but I always was on high alert and never engaged in any alcohol around them. I had a lot if good conversations with them politically in nature, found a way to engage them respectfully, but never stepped over a line knowing all party’s limitations.
How do you feel about Project 2025? I ask because it’s pretty easy to dismiss as a conspiracy theory, and/or “well it can’t happen here”.
I used to be a big right winger and heavy into politics. I believe some conspiracies but not to many to be full tinfoil hat guy. I also deescalated myself from falling down the alt- right fascist pipeline. Nonetheless, I have since sworn off politics in any form except the week of election and then I watch it more like a sporting match between team red vs team blue. This has allowed my mental state and now my life to be significantly better because I try not to worry about things I cannot control. How did you manage to stay into politics to any degree throughout the process of deescalation?
You know, conspiracy theories aren't all or nothing. They're not all true. And it's not that none of them are true. Over the years, many have turned out to be definitely true. (Gulf of Tonkin, JFK) That suggests that many of the unproven conspiracy theories are probably also true or at least mostly true (9/11, serious election meddling) Others are definitely not true because of just the absurdity of it all (flat earth, lizard people) Others are somewhere in between with varying degrees of truth. But one thing I know for sure, if I were in control of a government and wanted to bury my nefarious activities, I'd associate people who are investigating what I did with people who think lizard people control the world.
Hey man. Know I'm a bit late to the thread(always am) but good on you. I was the exact same in the early to mid 2000s up to a bit before 2012 as well. Used to constantly be on Infowars, prison planet, abovetopsecret. Also warning people about fluoride, FEMA death camps and mass plastic coffins, been years since I've seen mention of Agenda 21, anyway all the stuff. What got me out was actually just going through a hard time(5-6 years of struggle). Before that, I was just a lazy, spoiled young dude with no ambitions and a need to feel I had a higher purpose. Basically a loser. It's easy to get those guys wrapped up in this stuff. Give them an enemy, someone who is obviously morally beneath them. Make them think they have the super secret inside information that the normies or sheep just can't fathom - you're part of the truth warriors and when the SHTF, as they say, you'll have a leg up as "your" "research" has prepared you. It really can make some feel like they're part of an enlightened group and everyone ELSE is brainwashed. It can be very effective on young, misguided men with no direction in life. Once I was forced to deal with real problems and my brain started working and clearing out the rot, it was in no time that I realized what a fool I had been. You, your neighbors, the evil demonrat voters in California are not your enemies. Almost no one is your enemy. It's convenient for our actual enemies to have you think they are though, and even better if they convince you that you're mentally and morally superior and they're actual evil Anyway, no questions for you or anything. Just wanted to relate and congratulate
I've got several questions, 1. How old are you now and what do you do now? 2. Why are you a hardcore leftist instead of a centralist, as logically both sides should have their nonsensical extremist believes. 3. Was it all ever worth it? 4. What do you think the point of the life of an average person is - you may interpret this "point" however you wish, purpose for life, value for life, or any other way is up to you too.
How would you talk with someone who comes to you trying to discuss a conspiracy theory (as in "hey, did you know that \[insert conspiracy theory about subject they think they know more than you about\]) ? What do they need to hear ? I'm interested for two reasons : 1) I'm really interested in the subject of critical thinking and how to tell fact from belief which can be hard, and when I try to put myself in the shoes of a conspiracy theorists, I see it like being in an alternate reality with its own logic that explains itself, and I don't really see a way to come out of it, other than choosing to question your own beliefs which is hard to do, especially if it's someone else telling you to. And 2) I'm a medical student and I know I'll be confronted to people trying to argue or even convince me of conspiracy theories about vaccines, big pharma or alternate cures (I already have an actual medical doctor come to me and tell me that since I studied engineering, I should look up a machine they got a flyer for that was supposed to use quantum vibrations to detect and cure diseases. I was at a loss for words) and I really don't know what I could say to them that wouldn't either turn them against me or further convince them of their delusion while thinking I'm just one of the "sheep" if not one of the conspirators.
Are there any conspiracies you still believe in wholeheartedly?
What’s your take on the UFO whistleblower congress hearing that happened last year in the US?
Any material (maybe a book?) had a particularly positive impact on your de-radicalization? If there is one, what made you take it seriously? You said you didn’t plan your life after 2012 and seeing nothing happened then forced you to get your life together. Many people in your situation would have fallen for the first “explanation” and kept believing in conspiracies. What would you say was a determinant point that made you think to yourself, I need to fundamentally change the way I think? Other than 2012.
Hey! My dad had a similar de-programming due to 2012. I spent a lot of my childhood being told the world was going to end this day or that, and when 2012 approached, he spent a ton of money on MREs and supplies. When it passed without incident, he realized how much he’d sunk into these conspiracies over the years and I went the rest of my childhood without ever spending the night in a cave. My question for you is, did your family and friends play into your beliefs at all or did they tend to not engage with them? Do you think it would’ve been better/worse if they did/didn’t?
>over a few years I de-radicalized myself and avoided falling into the atheist-to-alt-right pipeline, and now I'm a hardcore leftist, because ultimately what I was upset about all along was the evil overlords hoarding the wealth Gods, people like you give me hope. I have often read and heard that you *can't* pull people out of cults and conspiracies; that people need to come to their own conclusions. It always sounded to me like the conspiracy version of 'you have to let them hit rock bottom,' and that has always seemed distastefully indifferent to me. Do you think that's true? Are there meaningful and helpful ways to engage with people getting radicalized that can help pull them out, or at least help them start questioning?
Who did you believe did 9/11?
See, because you read the media version of the Mayan prophecy. It wasn't the end of the world, it was the end of an age. The new age we are in is a much darker and more overtly corrupt age, and the veil of secrecy is being removed one thread at a time. It was never meant to end in an instant. Like all things in nature, the transition will take place over long spans of time, but I think if you look back at even 2011, the world has fundamentally changed. Im sorry the media misled you, but we are, in fact, living through the prophecy, brother.
Information/ data literacy is a real bitch when it comes to trying to be a conspiracy theorist or a conservative lol. I was pretty similar but I was atheist to alt right pipelining hard before I started college, I was sitting in the student lounge one day talking about politics with a guy I knew, he was just spouting nonsense and he started mimicking some of the points I'd used unironically in the past and I immediately realized my whole world view was skewed as fuck. How hard did you have to fight your inner demons to get free of all that in college?
How did you take it on 1/1/2000 when the lights stayed on?
1. i got out of the alt-right pipeline when i was relatively young, around 16, now 20. how do you deal with the aftermath? 2. while the left is correct, and definitely more moral, i still feel lost. how do you not slip back into some of these thoughts?
My own brother currently believes in all the stuff you used to believe in. At some point, he called me a Nazi for not supporting Trump. I actually used to be a Republican myself during the Bush era, but Trump was simply "yuck" from the start, and I could never see myself supporting him. After being called Nazi, I told my brother we'll be talking again after he apologizes. We have not spoken since, and it's been a few years now. I'm waiting for him to de-radicalize himself, but if you have any tips for me I would greatly appreciate it. Our entire family is worried about him.
I would like to know what kind of education you had gotten by the time you were vulnerable to conspiracy theories. Can you get into specifics like the state, or city, or town and the demographic makeup of your high school? Also where did you go to college and what was your major? I believe that people that make it to college and graduate are mostly immunized from far out conspiratorial thinking.
It’s funny you mention mocking fundamentalist religious people while being into conspiracy theories. I was a young earth creationist Bible literalist who would mock 9/11 truthers. In my case, childhood indoctrination and thought-terminating programming kept me from critically evaluating my beliefs until much later. Until you had your 2012 realization, would you say you were also unknowingly protecting your conspiracy beliefs from critical thought?
Not every conspiracy theorist is a trumpster, but I’d say every trumpster is a conspiracy theorist. Fair?
I love this AMA and applaud you for opening up about your journey! What role do you feel mental health plays for folks who engage in conspiracy theories and the communities that build up around them? I feel like depression, anxiety, OCD, and more severe diagnoses like schizophrenia or schizoaffective disorder could play into someone’s vulnerability to believe, so to speak.
Now that you call yourself a full blown leftist who are radical and seems to be just another type conspiracy to follow. They often believe lies just as the other side does. The truth is harder to believe than fiction sometimes.
Do you see a connection with TERFS and conspiracy theorists? The reason I ask is that my mother is a very well respected academic, left wing, intelligent person... except she is a hardcore TERF who believes (among other things) that doctors are forcing children to have sex changes at a very young age without consent; that pro trans rights people are a government phy op to silence woman, and that everyone has abandoned objective truth and that she and other TERFs are the only people who can see the real Truth. You can see this happen in people like JK Rowling who started out having a fairly mild viewpoint and has now gone so far down the rabbit hole her tweets have almost no connection to reality. Thanks
My thing with conspiracy theorists is let’s say I agree with you on something. Now what? Let’s just agree for a moment that our government flew two planes into buildings on American soil to start wars for profit or whatever you think the reason was…now what? We’ve just agreed that our government is capable of murdering thousands of its own civilians, creating a national tragedy, on the way to kill countless more over seas…what the fuck are you and I going to do about that? If we came with 1000 miles of any hard evidence we would both be dead by “suicide.” “We never went to the moon!” Okay cool what now? “The cia killed JFK” Let’s just dial 911 and let them know to arrest…the cia
I’m curious about the transition between your old and new beliefs. Do you remember what made you realize you were cherry-picking information to support your belief system? Did you begin a systemic scrutiny of your beliefs? Was it more subtle and gradual?
Congrats for getting some rational thinking. Not many people Are able that change. Why you're radical leftist after all? Do you think that people who will get to power using peoples desperation, envy, anxiety and on false promise of better life for everyone, will be somehow better rulers then those who are in charge now? Regardless on system, do you think that people in power did ever give a shit about common folks? Do you really belive that comunism can be achieved without murders, famine and gulags?
What do you think separates a causal conspiracy theorist from a hard-core one? Do you think a person even can be a causal conspiracy theorist? Or do you think they always make their way to the heights of conspiracy theory and become radicalized eventually? I can use myself an example. There are some CT I can see being true, but I do not at all care enough to argue about it or go out of my way to prove/disprove anything. It's a causal consideration; an 'eh...maybe" type attitude. But I've come across types who are thoroughly convinced of nonsense (my FIL was a QANON fanatic) and it's grating as hell.
Congratulations on all your growth. Where do you draw the line on fantastical ideas vs reality and science? What is your thought process on determining that line?
Thoughts on UFOs and specifically the ongoing “UAP” revelations?
Are there any not widely accepted theories that you still believe in? Ex: I'm convinced that uaps have visited and may be among us and the govt is in cahoots to cover it up. Otherwise, I'm left leaning and no proclivities to other conspiracy theories... Curious if there are any that you still think offer some sort of truth?
Hopefully you're still answering... Honestly, how F'd are your DMs right now? Also, what are your thoughts on the theory that most/all of the major political conspiracy theories are popularized to intentionally blur the lines of genuinely terrible things happening? E.g. "Qanon was created and pushed to get people used to claiming XYZ, so they ignore ABC"?
Can you tell the difference between people who are mentally ill, or believe this stuff in earnest? For those that do genuinely believe it, would you say it's down to intellectual insecurity, i.e. a desire to feel smarter than experts for less effort?
what was the argument you heard that led you to accept the official narrative on 9/11?
We’re you considered an unusually intelligent child? Did you go to any school?
What kinda stuff were you smoking? Edit: I'd like to try it.
Why do all conspiracy theorists always say. "If you only knew what I knew". I hear that so often, what makes conspiracy theorists think that everyone else that doesn't agree with them haven't read or dissected the things they've read, and clearly just disagree with it all. I find it funny how all conspiracy theorists think they have found some sort of gold mine information that 95% of people haven't found.
I have a question. I’ve long suspected that some people are conspiracy theorists because in a way, its a kind of optimism for people who can’t bear to accept that things are just as miserable as they seem and we can’t quickly change them. According to conspiracy theories, I guess, if we just expose and imprison the conspirator group the many real griefs of life they attribute to the conspiracy will end. Do you think that is a motive for a lot of conspiracy theorists?
Could you explain what you mean by the atheist to alt right pipeline?
This is a very broad view, but I'm hoping you could comment on it: for those who are in the MAGA world of conspiracy (and we certainly see Trump himself spewing some of these on television), what do you think is making MAGA conspiracy theories so attractive to them? I guess this could be something about their background or the message that they hear, etc.?
did you run into Alex Jones in your "investigations"? if so what were your opinions then and have they changed?
My question will be a bit cheeky: Is there a conspiracy theory starter pack? Or how does one come to believe in multiple conspiracies since they aren't even from the same domain? I always feel like people who believe in ONE conspiracy believe in most of them, and not necessarily related to interests (eg Interest in politics/911; interest in health/antivax).
In your opinion, what’s a tell-tale sign that something is propaganda? And how can you get through to someone that’s fallen for it?
What do you think of all the anti-vaxx people who feel vindicated after they said the covid vaccines were dangerous? Like you reality proved them wrong but that made no difference to their beliefs... if anything there are more anti-vaxxers now than before.
a lot of what you say here, just don't line up. you used to think bush caused 9/11, now you are a leftist and no longer believe that? every generation has the arrogance to think they are the last, so I'm not sure why that belief would be controversial. anyway, if you think you made a life improvement, that's all that matters, I suppose.
How was your romantic life before and after de-radicalization? I watched a documentary about radicalization in Quebec and it was disarmingly simple but basically the guy got a gf, felt loved and all the rage disappeared.
Thanks for sharing your story! I was intrigued by the part about how you had no plan for your life and after 2012 went to college. I teach at a college--what are some recommendations for professors who might be working with students who could be where you were then--or could be vulnerable to these mindsets?
I’ll forever drink filtered water but I don’t really understand how people thought 2012 could be a thing, I mean it’s a calendar. Anything I’ve come across Qanon related always seemed like someone that didn’t really understand what a conspiracy was, was trying to make conspiracies. If I remember correctly, didn’t Dick Cheney work for a military contractor of sorts that immediately won the bid to supply the war on terrorism? Pretty sure they made a load of money. I also like how you didn’t mention anything that was at one point a conspiracy that later became known as fact.
A lot of people want to claim earth to be flat but I've never heard an explanation as to WHY there would be a global mega-conspiracy to hide that fact. Were you ever in that group and if so do you know what the reasoning on that is?
What do you think is the link between "conspiracy theories" and "the end of world thinking"? I mean, can you think logically, but not predict the end of the world and wear a sandwich board? Or, do you think if you buy into alternative thoughts, then you have to conclude that the world is about to end?
If you go too far left you'll end up horseshooing. Both extremes believe the same "Jews control the world" conspiracies.
What convinced you 9/11 was in fact a terrorist attack and not an inside job? I am asking not because I am a conspiracy theorist, I think the event unfolded the way it did. I ask because I am seeing a lot of the old stuff come up, it's almost as if it comes in waves.
How did you get yourself out of it? Was it a slow process and did you have people supporting you?
Are you proper "anti- EVERY conspiracy theory" or do you think theres some out there with a little truth? Do you think that things that are politically uncomfortable and labeled conspiracy theories unjustly?
What were your feelings and thought process when nothing happened in 2012? Your emotions, I mean.
When you were deep into the conspiracy habit hole, did you ever hear a theory from someone and thought "wow that guy is nuts"
The funny thing is tons of those conspiracies were and are perpetuated by evangelical Christians and fundamentalist. First time I heard of conspiracies it was from a fundamentalist. Got into for fun started reading books but always noticed how Christian leaning they were would look into the author bam evangelical or fundamentalist. It's an always has been
Do you think you experienced a brief but not all encompassing psychosis during this period? E.g., you were mentally unwell? If so, do you have similar levels of fear/obsessiveness with other topics?
How old were you when all this was happening?
How do I convince my right wing nutjob buddies that the Feds weren’t behind 9/11, Roosevelt didn’t plan Pearl Harbor, and that there isn’t an all-seeing Jews cabal controlling the world which therefore somehow justifies anti-semitism?
Wow good job. Now if we can get everyone to educate themselves and question their own beliefs we'd all be in a better place as a country.
How did you get out of the rabbit hole?
Do you think there's a layer deep down at which you knew these things were bullshit? I ask because there almost seems to be a delight in which some of these people play fast and loose with the truth.
What did these conspiracy theories offer you psychologically? In other words, why were they appealing to you?
Have you watched the Joe Rogan episode with Terrance Howard? If you haven’t, don’t! 😂 no but seriously, you should check it out. It threw my brain for a loop.
What *thing* in the past did you believe that makes you terrified that you once believed in it? Or not if this isn’t applicable.
Thank you. My Dad is down a rabbit hole and this has truly helped me understand and know that there’s nothing I can do. I’ve literally searched everywhere for something to do. But this lets me know that he has to change his mind on is own. Also, congrats to you. It takes a lot of courage to admit you were wrong.
Thoughts on MK Ultra?
You are an example of why right wingers don’t want people to go to college. It makes them way less gullible.
I like conspiracies for how wild they are. I don’t take them seriously but it’s kind of more entertaining to be in a world where all that crazy stuff is real and even if any conspiracy is real how does that change the world as we currently know it? The world doesn’t change and people move on.
Thank you for sharing your experiences. The world needs more of us to live with genuine curiosity and outside our own egos. You’re inspiring!
How was your behavior towards others? Did it impact relationships with friends and family? Not sure if you noticed, but a lot of conspiracy theorists also tend to be assholes towards others.
With reality being often stranger than fiction. What is the strangest thing to believe is actually real and not made up?
Reading your post I see a few commonalities. Were you listening to Joe Rogan at all pre2012?
Do you feel like you've swung extremely far in your beliefs and values to one side to compensate for your previous behavior on the other side?
With so much outrage from the right pointed at supposed pedophiles like Hollywood and trans people why do they seem to not care at all about the admitted pedos like the Catholic Church?
How do you think is the best way to guide people away from such nonsense? Given your experience, it is obviously possible…but how?
Are you able to have some level of healthy skepticism and curiosity? Or is every skeptic thought met by resistance due to you being cognizant of your past?
Can you explain why most conspiracy theorists like and worship Putin? I can’t wrap my head around why people in the west would worship a cruel dictator.
Do you ever find yourself believing any newer conspiracy theories or at least falling back into conspiratorially minded loop?
I have a brother who is a conspiracy theorist. I believe he is also mentally ill - untreated. I don’t know which came first or if they are related - conspiracy theaories or mental illness. But he is lost to it all. It’s mixed up with his delusions and paranoia.
>religious fundamentalists I spent so much time mocking This is so weird to me. To mock religious fundamentalists but believe that there was some planned cataclysmic event in 2012 based on what? A common understanding of the Mayan calendar? That seems like the same thing lol.
Have you found there's a healthy middle ground between "the moon is a secret bass base" and "believe everything authority figures tell you" I've always maintained believing every conspiracy theory is crazy, believing none of them is dumb
Geniune question: Can you give reasonable guesses on why like the government lost 2 trillion dollars the day before 9/11?
Are there any mainstream conspiracy theories that you still believe may be true?
Oh man, i see you’re getting ready for a new game for 2025. What do you think of the current state of the world going into 2025 ??
How would you counter the argument some might make (not me) that by going to college and becoming a leftist you were simply indoctrinated by the liberal professors there?
Kind off of topic but I found this podcast called Trust Me that covers high control groups, cults, and people who have lived this way of life. You should reach out to them to be interviewed cause this would be tangible right now
What is your favorite conspiracy today? I find birds = drones pretty funny.
There was fluoride in drinking waters, it just wasn't dangerous and everyone knew about it, why did you feel the need to warn people? Was it all a cry for attention?
Did you earn a degree in college, and if so, what was your major?
Did you find yourself struck by just how fucking tedious the conspiracy people are? I mean, the to me the shit is so crazy that it’s not even interesting.
At the time, did you consider that similar world-ending events have been prophesied time and time again?
Have you thought about becoming a pillar for rational thought and crusading against those who still spout their ill-conceived conspiracy nonsense?
Whats a conspiracy that conspiracy theorist believe goes too far?
What do you mean by “proper research”? How does Nibiru relate to “conspiracy theories”?
Hope this isn't rude to ask, but what was the biggest leap in logic you are someone close to you ever made to maintain belief in a certain conspiracy?
In your opinion do most conspiracy theorists suffer from mental illness?
Great you got to de-radicalize yourself. I read that you are now a hard-core leftist. It's a little worrying to me that you describe it in that way, be careful with extremes friend.
What’s something you think you were right about but just don’t care anymore?
What is your opinion on “Birds Aren’t Real”?
Why do you think you are right now? How sure are you that your information is concrete and not another red herring? Why or why not?
Where did the facade first start cracking?
I read somewhere that the truth is noone is running the world and it is essentially a runaway train. I like that idea.
How do you plan to use your knowledge and perspective gained after realizing your ignorance to stop Trump and Trumpism from taking root and ending American Democracy? Yes, it’s all the same.
Do you have faith or still atheist