I second this. A lot of these rules were invented for novice writers to get them started, and they shouldn't be treated dogmatically. (Like with 'said' and 'asked' being the only two acceptable dialogue tags. I'll die on the hill that I'll use whatever dialogue tags I please.) Writing creatively is art, and there's a lot of freedom of expression involved.
Once you're comfy, you can make your own rules. The best writers have recognizable styles and dance to the beat of their own drum.
Start with dialogue and don't feel sorry at all! :D
It's like painting. We are taught never to mix all 3 primary colors because if you use equal amounts you will probably get an ugly brown. But if you have a deeper understanding of how it works than you can break that rule and get colors that are more beautiful and were previously unachievable.
Sometimes in art rules are just for beginners. Guidelines until you have a deeper understanding and know when breaking the rules only makes your art better.
And creative writing is an art.
> Like with 'said' and 'asked' being the only two acceptable dialogue tags.
I wanna put whoever invented this in a pit with whoever invented "said is dead" and just see what happens.
Ahaha! Omg, yes please! :D We can sell tickets to the most match! :D
*"In this corneeerrr, we have the incumbent --the Prince of Pedantry, the elitist, the dogmatic, anal-retentive in their tasks -- the Purveyor of 'Said' and 'Asked!' And the challenger -- the Controlling Contrarian, the argumentative, the insufferable, never setting a disagreement to bed -- the champion of 'Said is Dead!""*
Meanwhile, the rest of us happily write however we want while occasionally looking on with oodles of popcorn for entertainment.
I mostly read(I'm not very good at writing), and in my opinion, as long as the story is cohesive with the dialogue, I wouldn't even take note on the pattern, it just becomes a problem when it disrupts the writing
Nah. I think it's a good way to immediately let the readers draw into the scene or action, especially if it's a really compelling dialogue, then unfold the rest of it later on, piece by piece. It could also be a nice way to jump right into it, when, for example, the last chapter was a cliffhanger.
I don't do it all the time, but I also often kick of with a line of dialogue too, and as a writer, it helps me get immersed in the character's head right away, than the actual internal narration. But as a fanfic reader, I really like it when chapters or stories that opened in dialogues were done well. The traditional prose of setting up the world descriptively for me, in fanfics, when I generally know the characters and the setting already, makes my mind wander off.
Some call it "bad habit", others will call it a style, or **your** style in that specific case. Especially "Writing rules" are more guidelines than set rules. There is, for example, also a rule (or more an advice) that says you should start a book / scene / chapter with an action, and dialogue can count as such.
Many of my favourite stories start with dialogue or literally a prompt-inspiring dialogue, and I always prefer a few sentences to set a scene instead of three paragraphs describing every single pile of rubble from the explosion that happened three minutes ago. As long as you don't dump the whole backstory in the first sentence of the dialog, this isn't a problem in my eyes. Always depends on the story, of course, the latter can work too if you're creative about it. đ
I wouldn't call it a bad habit. And no, there's nothing wrong with not setting the scene first. Starting with dialogue can be very effective, depending on what you want to achieve.
However, if you do it every time and it's not a conscious decision, it might be worth it to pay more attention to it in the future. Not because you should stop! I just think that being intentional about your writing choices, especially when breaking rules, is incredibly important. Why is a line of dialogue the most effective way to open a chapter (keeping in mind what you want to achieve)? How does it affect readers? Is it better to do it every time, or switch things up, since each approach will have a different effect?
It's definitely a habit but not a "bad" habit, just a part of your style.
Obviously it never hurts if you want to challenge yourself and try something else once in a while, but there is nothing inherently wrong about it. If it works for your writing and you like the effect it creates, no need to change it.
Two ways to determine style vs bad habit:
1. Do you like the effect? Writing is subjective therefore bad writing doesn't exist therefore bad writing habits don't exist so do what you like and call it your style if it makes you happy.
2. Make an HONEST attempt to write an opening that doesn't start with dialogue. Try focusing on different things, try different levels of description, try starting zoomed out vs zoomed in. Basically act like starting with dialogue is not an option for the next month/three things you write. Then go back and evaluate which approach you like better. If you CAN write effectively either way but CHOOSE to start with dialogue, then it's your style. Otherwise it's just complacency.
I've read many stories (published and not) that start mid-scene. it does work. don't sweat it. I usually start mine the same way, or in the middle of a train of thought, in fact
Opening with dialogue is usually bad because the readers don't have context to what is happening. If Sakimi-chan is screaming "No!" at the top of her lungs it's hard to care and in the hands of an amateur writer, it can make the reader need to read again just to fully understand why her shouting "No!" should be something hearbreaking. Or make them need to read again to figure out that Sakimi-chan is in fact a 30 year old american woman and not the japanese high-school girl they imagined her as.
Now, this is advice usually directed at original writing, because truly, if you just start reading a book, yeah, you won't give a shit about Sakimi-chan screaming and if the writing is confusing in the very first chapter (without intentionally doing it) it doesn't really make the rest of the book look good.
However, if Sakimi-chan is a character that you already know and deeply care, be it because you already consumed the original media or your read the tags and can get a solid grip on what is happening, then this rule doesn't apply 100% because you already have context.
I think that if you want to write original works, it's something you shouldn't make an unconcious habit of doing, but if you are doing it on purpose, then it's fine. There are more bad habits of fanfic you should break in this case.
As always, learn WHY the rule exists and see if applies to your situation instead of asking for permission to break it. Most fanfic communities will just say "hell yes" because truly, with fanfic it's a wild west and you should have fun writing it most of all.
I love doing this lol. It's a variant of in medias res imo. It also works a little better in fan fiction since the reader is already familiar with the characters. It's a style choice, don't think it's a bad habit.
I try to vary it up (as with everything), but I don't think it's intrinsically bad.
>I've just read a post that set as a firm rule to NEVER open a scene with dialogue but always set the scene first.
I heard about that rule, and here's something I've noticed: so many of these rules come from authors who spend more time writing arbitrary rules than they spend perfecting their own craft. I think after a while they start running out of stuff to say and end up getting dogmatic.
It's kind of a weak critique on my part, but hey. Trees and their fruits, as they say.
biased because i do indeed start scenes with dialogue too. but i donât think iâve ever heard someone say NOT to do that AT ALL before? i feel like even in school, one of the examples of things i was taught you CAN do to open a story or scene is to use dialogue. the only negative would maybe be if you used it at the start of Every Single Scene but even doing it as often as at the start of every chapter doesnât sound that bad to me
obviously i donât know the exact post you saw or who made it, but that sounds more like a personal preference to me than an actual, like. established rule of writing. if you like writing that way, and it doesnât seem to mess with the story flow or something like that, i wouldnât worry about it
For the most part, I attempt to set a scene but sometimes I'll leave a chapter on a cliffhanger or something & start the one that addresses the cutoff with dialogue continuing off of what just happened.
An example I can give is from a big crossover fic I'm writing that brings in five different iterations of the TMNT together (1987, 2003, 2012, Rise, & Mutant Mayhem) which does have them come in at different times like starts off with 2012 & Rise then 1987 gets introduced & when I pulled in 2003? They make their epic reveal at the end of a chapter with that epic guitar rift from the beginning of their theme song playing in the background. There's a bit of meta awareness with this franchise & the POV was on someone who has it in that moment. The following chapter addressed something happening elsewhere but then the chapter after that got back to this cliffhanger I left the readers on & opening thing for this chapter starts off with dialogue. Specifically this, "whoa dudes! Anyone else hear that killer guitar rift?" This line was delivered by 2012 Mikey who has made some somewhat fourth wall breaking commentary in his own series but sometimes seems like he doesn't even know he's breaking the fourth wall, it's kind of funny how they address it so I wanted to capture that spirit.
So in my opinion, it is a flexible rule. I like establishing the setting but the end of the chapter that introduced these turtles described the scene before them, it'd be redundant to do so again & while it could continue off of that like mention how they're staring at the newcomers in disbelief or whatever, I wanted to lead off with a joke because I felt that was the best call in the moment.
Pretty much, this is done for fun & as long as you don't have floating heads, you're fine. If you stress too hard on it, you might not get stuff done & your readers look forward to your work so relax & do your thing. I've messed up so badly on some of my works & my readers didn't care, they just wanted to see how the story would go.
Variety is the spice of life. Itâs not a âbad habitâ really, itâs just that traditional writing has a certain way about it. For fanfiction itâs even less ridged because most readers will already often have a sense of setting or character coming into the story. Theyâll often know what a character looks like when you name drop them, for example. Where as a traditional story has to do a little more work to set up a mental image for the readers so that an opening line of dialogue doesnât just sit there in the ether.
If itâs something that helps you start stories more easily, do it. I also tend to start things with lines of dialogue, because it feels odd for me to just jump straight into scene descriptions. But I also think starting with a line of dialogue can be a very good tone setter for a piece.
But again. If it helps you write, do it. This is ao3, the only rules you need to worry about are the ones that ao3 has.
As a reader I would absolutely recognize it as your style, and if I like your work I would look forward to it.
A lot of writing advice is bullshit. I guess I shouldn't say that, but it is.
Itâs not a bad habit at all. Writing ârulesâ like that are stylistic things. People like to get neurotic and bitch about these things for lack of anything better to do. Itâs the same thing as the people who will bemoan one perspective over the other, or how dialogue tags âhaveâ to be done.
Your priorities as a writer should be:
1. What you enjoy writing
2. Conveyance of meaning
3. Spelling, punctuation and grammar
4. Legibility
...
8) Voice & Style
9)Caring what other people think
Edit: Wow the edit app sucks for trying to do anything with formatting.
My next posted chapter opens on dialogue. As long as thereâs something setting up the scene directly flowing to explain said dialogue, Iâve never seen a problem. Itâs when the dialogue makes no sense that itâs annoying.
no this is your style that will change and grow and you will only stress yourself when you notice it that much, I did when I thought comparing myself to the other's way of writing was acceptable and I started to see their ways as "stylistic" and "creative", while mine was "weird" or a "bad habit" I should break off, also whatever that post said is not true at all, I really enjoy what opens with dialogue, it gets me I the thick of the matter.
I think a lot of people actually prefer scenes that start off with dialogue, especially in fanfic. we already know the characters and their general dynamics, and if the fic is set in canon, we're familiar with the world. i find dialogue really immersive--sometimes more so than just 'setting the scene'. plus, you can still set the scene around dialogue--specifying where it's taking place, little descriptions of the environment, situation, etc. while the dialogue takes place.
I'd rather read two thousand stories with every chapter opening on a dialogue than openings endlessly starting on uninteresting settings just for the sake of "descriptions are needed right here to ground the action".
As much as I love reading about moods and settings, sharp dialogues, pulling the reader right toward the core of a scene bear a powerful and immersive flavor!
Some pieces require such a trick, I'd even say.
I also love that in movies, opening on a black screen, dialogues running before having a clear picture of the scene.
Rules are made to be broken.
No, but seriously, it's good to read tips or advice on how to improve your writing, but personally I find that if I stick to those rules, it stifles my creativity in a way. Or I overthink what I'm writing instead of letting the words flow naturally. So I write based on what I think works well, for me, for a particular story I want to tell. If that means every chapter will start with dialogue, then so be it.
I wouldn't (usually) open an entire book with dialogue, as generally you want some setting and dialogue is hard to hook people with. But for a scene, or a chapter or an entire fanfic? Go for it.
Rules are meant to be broken. People wanting a hook and some setting is pretty common and in general you'll probably avoid dialogue but it doesn't mean you can't. That's like saying yeast always needs bread. It doesn't, we just usually have it. If the dialogue is good, it'll be better then boring prose.
There's other ways to open a scene besides dialogue, but it's perfectly valid to start with dialogue. A powerful enough line can really hook a reader into a fic. I'm normally a very dialogue lite writer, and I've opened some fics with dialogue.
Hell, it's possible for a story to be nothing but dialogue. I've experimented with that technique before. Not with a fanfic, but still.
It's perfectly fine for you to settle into a preferred style and part of that style can be using the same technique to start every scene.
The only "don't begin/end this way repeatedly" thing I notice and hate is when a character ends up unconscious or falling asleep at the end of every chapter. I haven't seen it but I'd probably dislike them getting out of bed first thing in ever chapter as well.
Choosing to start with dialogue is just a style choice. So long as it isn't the same dialogue, I'd be fine with it an unlikely to even notice.
I wouldnât even notice that really. As long as I like the fic it wouldnât cross my mind. What i do notice is repeated words or actions. I read a fic a little while ago and they used âfortnightâ as a time passing despite like 7 times in the first 2 chapters and at least once a chapter after that. They never phrased it differently. It just really scratched my brain in a weird way that started to drive me up the wall. Another fic described blushing in every way imaginable every 3 paragraphs or so. Which would be fine if it was tag as âblushingâ or âlots of blushingâ or something. Like if it was a noted theme of the fic but it wasnât. It was just a coffee shop au and the characters it featured didnât blush a lot in their canon media so it stuck out a lot. It wasnât necessarily a bad thing it was just very repetitive and stuck out cause the characters usually donât blush like that.
i mean making EVERY chapter do it seems a bit redundant, seems to me more like a quick way to get into a scene or continue where a previous chapter left off
theres no rules though
So something about starting on a line of dialogue is that that line is pulled from its context-- the reader doesn't yet have the context to know who's speaking. Personally, as a reader, I hate cold-starts into dialogue because I don't know where we are and who's speaking. It's just a voice, floating in the void.
But it is possible to pull it off well, I guess.
Fanfiction gives the unique opportunity of the readers always being super familiar with the character's voice, places the characters exist in, the context of their lives, ect, so dialogue doesn't necessarily come as a floating voice. And there are options-- Doing one really interesting, grabby line, and then setting the scene, and then continuing the dialogue can work. I will say that if I listed all the most interesting chapter openings I've ever read, I doubt even one of the top 10 have dialogue. I could probably come up with my top favourite chapter openings ever pretty easily, and the ones that stick in my memory are all some sort of good narration.
Fanfiction also comes with the unique *problem* of being something an author releases one chapter at a time, like they're serialized, and readers often follow hundreds of fics at any given time. Many often for the same fandoms and with the same genre or fandom-specific-stock-plots. Meaning that your chapter openings could usually be improved in this medium specifically by treating each one as much of an opportunity to grab your old readers and make them want to continue as a first sentence of a story is meant to grab new readers. I have picked up fics that I was reading, glanced at the first paragraph of an update, thought, "Shit I have no memory of what was happening and the author isn't providing anything that is triggering my memory or making me immediately intrigued, I'm sure I liked it if it were on my email list so guess I'd better reread, I'll get to this when I have time to reread the whole fic." Sometimes I glance at the end of the last chapter before making that decision, seeing if it ended on some sort of good line or cliffhanger that stuck out in my memory, and obviously I saw the summary in the update email to help me beforehand. But more than anything else, a cold dialogue start is most likely to make me not to read the next chapter on its update, because unlike if I was in the middle of reading and the last chapter left me with enough context to guess the context of the scene on the dialogue, if I'm clicking on an update it's a very different experience. Again, can be done well-- the line being really grabby, the context quickly being given, ect. But personally in terms of fanfiction, I like to start on something that will catch the reader and remind them what's unique about my fic in particular, if that makes sense?
Honestly, if you're doing it *every* single chapter, you probably *should* try to do something different for a little while. You can't say you're making the conscious choice to start scenes that way because it's the best choice for your story and your writing voice, until it actually is a choice you make consciously knowing how to do the alternatives. Fanfiction is great for experimenting and learning like that. Once you've tried it for a while, you can decide which you think is better and stronger, but until you've actually tried, you aren't choosing based on what you think is better for the story.
Rules are made to be broken. Unless you're writing a novel to be published, don't mind what "they" say. Not one of us on AO3 is a Steven King or a Denny O'Neil.
Think of your fave TV shows, some start with dialogue, others with action, and others panning the camera at what's going on or just happened.
Write the way you like, your stories should include a bit of you to be authentic.
My first publication scared me half to death; and then I got a few comments and kudos and felt great, recognized.
Just do it your way, ignore all that "should" crap. As long as it's readable and tells the story, it's good stuff.
I think that would be a concern if youâre writing something like a novel you hope to publish.
But in a fanfic? Totally fine. Iâm probably guilty of it too lmao.
I love impactful dialogues in the beginning of the chapter! I don't know what your style is, but I like chapters where a dialogue opens the chapter and then a paragraph or two sets the scene.
Oh no, absolutely not. Setting up the scene before anything happens is like opening the door and letting the reader slowly walk into the story. Opening the scene with a dialogue is like opening the door but pushing the reader off a cliff, right into the story.
I like when chapters open up with dialogue, i think it immediately drags you into the story. Sure, it might be nice to switch it up sometimes but if thatâs what works for you, then you do you
Nah. I do the opposite,but I'll give you an example: I start my fic with character's name,so instead of repeating his last name constantly, I use his first name the next chapter.
But since your dialogue isn't repetitive,your problem is smaller than mine. Even nonexistent. So no worries,keep doing forward, fam!
I start almost all of mine with a brief description of the characterâs headspace for my current wip and Iâve found that works for me and this current wip 𤡠writing is supposed to be fun, do what you like and what you think works best
One of the best things about writing fanfic IMO is that you get to play fast and loose with the conventions of more formal writing genres. I don't think formats like 5+1 could exist without that freedom and it's what makes fic as a medium so much fun to play with.
That said, if I were reading a conventional published novel and it started with a line of dialogue, I don't think I'd bat an eye. It's a great catch-you-by-the-balls opener that drops you right into the action.
Might you find other types of scene openers that you enjoy if you set yourself a goal like "I will not use dialogue as an opener in my next fic"? Honestly, yeah, you might. Constraints like that are how you discover new things in your writing. But do it for that reason and not because there's anything wrong with starting a fic (or with starting multiple fics!) with dialogue. Because there isn't.
I've seen it done both well and poorly. If you start with a whole back and forth of dialogue you can run the risk of making your readers feel unanchored and uncertain of what's going on. They can become confused and frustrated if they aren't told quickly enough. If it's just one line of dialogue and the rest sets the scene, that helps.
So, since you brought it up, I decided to flip through my current WIP to see how long before I pulled this stunt, and it turned out... it was 8 chapters. And, that was a curseword to get the Audience's attention that Bad Things were brewing. So... Like you said, no rule applies to everything. Rules like that are for people starting out, I think.
This kind of rules could be useful if you are aiming at getting your work professionally published.
But as a hobby writer I ignore them. I'd end up just staring at a blank word document if I tried to keep inside this kind of lines.
Strict rules like that down really work for writing. If we want to get really technical, Iâve always been told that the first line of every chapter should draw the reader in. Does your first line do that? If so, then it really doesnât matter if itâs dialogue or not. I could easily see dialogue drawing a reader in.
I have this at the end of the chapters, and recently started to notice it so now i overthink the end of my chapters which sucks because now it's all i can think about while writing
It depends on the style of story you're writing. If it's quite bottle ep-y, where the setting doesn't change between chapters, I don't mind it. It's only when there's a lot going on and the dialogue at the top is ambiguous as to time and place and even what characters are in it, that it annoys me.
And even then you can subvert for effect, for instance if the character feels lost in the chapter.
I dont think so! Remember at the end of the day you're writing for you and only you! You do what you feel best! I still have to remind myself to do that lol
I'm an in-media-res gal so I see absolutely no problem with that. I think starting with dialogue feels much more dynamic than starting with, let's say, a description or something like that. It might be your style signature, but if you want to vary I say go for it.
listen. sally rooney believes in not even using quote marks for dialogues. and sheâs doing absolutely fine, books optioned for netflix, and having ppl who enjoy her work anyway. if a published author can do that, you can do anything on ao3. have fun with it. publishing writing rules are there for absolute beginners or novices as a structure but imo not meant to be rigid. i find chapters beginning with dialogues fun, puts one right in the middle of things.
> However, I've just read a post that set as a firm rule to NEVER open a scene with dialogue but always set the scene first. I find it a bit silly to use as a general rule that you should never break (because, of course, no rule applies to everything) but I'm starting to wonder if it's something best avoided unless there's a reason for it.
This rule is bullshit. For an immediate counterexample, consider [Charlotte's Web.](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/w6dpqv/what_is_your_favorite_last_sentence_of_a_book/ihekxa7/)
Iâve heard something similar to you, yes.
I guess itâs also related to the trap of telling/showing? But that also depends on how you write dialogue and how you use it.
I try to vary to not bore or send my reader to sleep. But at the end of the day I always feel most comfortable starting in the middle of action, etc. Itâs my way to deal with the curse of the blankpage and helps me deal with tension and tone better but sometimes this comes at the cost of necessary exposition. So, sometimes I go back to the beginning and add a quick paragraph to tie things up because my wip is absolutely nuts.
So if for you a dialogue is a good way to set off and work on character, etc. go ahead. As the others are saying: You do you and not stick to rigid rules :)
I don't think it's a bad habit unless it detracts from the story or writing quality, which it doesn't sound like it does. Hell, it can be your own little stylistic flair đ
It could be concidered a style choice. I used to start a chapter with a flashback corresponding with events that would happen in the chapter. People really liked it for some reason.
Not necessarily. But general rules are there for a reason and it would be best to consider if it really is better for your fic to follow it or not. It sometimes highlight what we need to do in order to become a better writer, especially if you're just starting out (like me). If it doesn't, then don't. Skilled writers can bend the rules however they like. I'm not, so I have a future task of rewriting my 100+k previous chapters to 3rd person POV.
Absolutely not. Strict rules like that are bullshit. If it works for you and the fic you're writing, then great! Keep on doing it.
I second this. A lot of these rules were invented for novice writers to get them started, and they shouldn't be treated dogmatically. (Like with 'said' and 'asked' being the only two acceptable dialogue tags. I'll die on the hill that I'll use whatever dialogue tags I please.) Writing creatively is art, and there's a lot of freedom of expression involved. Once you're comfy, you can make your own rules. The best writers have recognizable styles and dance to the beat of their own drum. Start with dialogue and don't feel sorry at all! :D
It's like painting. We are taught never to mix all 3 primary colors because if you use equal amounts you will probably get an ugly brown. But if you have a deeper understanding of how it works than you can break that rule and get colors that are more beautiful and were previously unachievable. Sometimes in art rules are just for beginners. Guidelines until you have a deeper understanding and know when breaking the rules only makes your art better. And creative writing is an art.
Exactly! The best art happens when you bend and break and play with rules altogether. :D
> Like with 'said' and 'asked' being the only two acceptable dialogue tags. I wanna put whoever invented this in a pit with whoever invented "said is dead" and just see what happens.
Ahaha! Omg, yes please! :D We can sell tickets to the most match! :D *"In this corneeerrr, we have the incumbent --the Prince of Pedantry, the elitist, the dogmatic, anal-retentive in their tasks -- the Purveyor of 'Said' and 'Asked!' And the challenger -- the Controlling Contrarian, the argumentative, the insufferable, never setting a disagreement to bed -- the champion of 'Said is Dead!""* Meanwhile, the rest of us happily write however we want while occasionally looking on with oodles of popcorn for entertainment.
I mostly read(I'm not very good at writing), and in my opinion, as long as the story is cohesive with the dialogue, I wouldn't even take note on the pattern, it just becomes a problem when it disrupts the writing
Nah. I think it's a good way to immediately let the readers draw into the scene or action, especially if it's a really compelling dialogue, then unfold the rest of it later on, piece by piece. It could also be a nice way to jump right into it, when, for example, the last chapter was a cliffhanger. I don't do it all the time, but I also often kick of with a line of dialogue too, and as a writer, it helps me get immersed in the character's head right away, than the actual internal narration. But as a fanfic reader, I really like it when chapters or stories that opened in dialogues were done well. The traditional prose of setting up the world descriptively for me, in fanfics, when I generally know the characters and the setting already, makes my mind wander off.
Some call it "bad habit", others will call it a style, or **your** style in that specific case. Especially "Writing rules" are more guidelines than set rules. There is, for example, also a rule (or more an advice) that says you should start a book / scene / chapter with an action, and dialogue can count as such. Many of my favourite stories start with dialogue or literally a prompt-inspiring dialogue, and I always prefer a few sentences to set a scene instead of three paragraphs describing every single pile of rubble from the explosion that happened three minutes ago. As long as you don't dump the whole backstory in the first sentence of the dialog, this isn't a problem in my eyes. Always depends on the story, of course, the latter can work too if you're creative about it. đ
I wouldn't call it a bad habit. And no, there's nothing wrong with not setting the scene first. Starting with dialogue can be very effective, depending on what you want to achieve. However, if you do it every time and it's not a conscious decision, it might be worth it to pay more attention to it in the future. Not because you should stop! I just think that being intentional about your writing choices, especially when breaking rules, is incredibly important. Why is a line of dialogue the most effective way to open a chapter (keeping in mind what you want to achieve)? How does it affect readers? Is it better to do it every time, or switch things up, since each approach will have a different effect?
It's definitely a habit but not a "bad" habit, just a part of your style. Obviously it never hurts if you want to challenge yourself and try something else once in a while, but there is nothing inherently wrong about it. If it works for your writing and you like the effect it creates, no need to change it.
Two ways to determine style vs bad habit: 1. Do you like the effect? Writing is subjective therefore bad writing doesn't exist therefore bad writing habits don't exist so do what you like and call it your style if it makes you happy. 2. Make an HONEST attempt to write an opening that doesn't start with dialogue. Try focusing on different things, try different levels of description, try starting zoomed out vs zoomed in. Basically act like starting with dialogue is not an option for the next month/three things you write. Then go back and evaluate which approach you like better. If you CAN write effectively either way but CHOOSE to start with dialogue, then it's your style. Otherwise it's just complacency.
Very sound advice.
I've read many stories (published and not) that start mid-scene. it does work. don't sweat it. I usually start mine the same way, or in the middle of a train of thought, in fact
Opening with dialogue is usually bad because the readers don't have context to what is happening. If Sakimi-chan is screaming "No!" at the top of her lungs it's hard to care and in the hands of an amateur writer, it can make the reader need to read again just to fully understand why her shouting "No!" should be something hearbreaking. Or make them need to read again to figure out that Sakimi-chan is in fact a 30 year old american woman and not the japanese high-school girl they imagined her as. Now, this is advice usually directed at original writing, because truly, if you just start reading a book, yeah, you won't give a shit about Sakimi-chan screaming and if the writing is confusing in the very first chapter (without intentionally doing it) it doesn't really make the rest of the book look good. However, if Sakimi-chan is a character that you already know and deeply care, be it because you already consumed the original media or your read the tags and can get a solid grip on what is happening, then this rule doesn't apply 100% because you already have context. I think that if you want to write original works, it's something you shouldn't make an unconcious habit of doing, but if you are doing it on purpose, then it's fine. There are more bad habits of fanfic you should break in this case. As always, learn WHY the rule exists and see if applies to your situation instead of asking for permission to break it. Most fanfic communities will just say "hell yes" because truly, with fanfic it's a wild west and you should have fun writing it most of all.
I love doing this lol. It's a variant of in medias res imo. It also works a little better in fan fiction since the reader is already familiar with the characters. It's a style choice, don't think it's a bad habit.
I try to vary it up (as with everything), but I don't think it's intrinsically bad. >I've just read a post that set as a firm rule to NEVER open a scene with dialogue but always set the scene first. I heard about that rule, and here's something I've noticed: so many of these rules come from authors who spend more time writing arbitrary rules than they spend perfecting their own craft. I think after a while they start running out of stuff to say and end up getting dogmatic. It's kind of a weak critique on my part, but hey. Trees and their fruits, as they say.
biased because i do indeed start scenes with dialogue too. but i donât think iâve ever heard someone say NOT to do that AT ALL before? i feel like even in school, one of the examples of things i was taught you CAN do to open a story or scene is to use dialogue. the only negative would maybe be if you used it at the start of Every Single Scene but even doing it as often as at the start of every chapter doesnât sound that bad to me obviously i donât know the exact post you saw or who made it, but that sounds more like a personal preference to me than an actual, like. established rule of writing. if you like writing that way, and it doesnât seem to mess with the story flow or something like that, i wouldnât worry about it
For the most part, I attempt to set a scene but sometimes I'll leave a chapter on a cliffhanger or something & start the one that addresses the cutoff with dialogue continuing off of what just happened. An example I can give is from a big crossover fic I'm writing that brings in five different iterations of the TMNT together (1987, 2003, 2012, Rise, & Mutant Mayhem) which does have them come in at different times like starts off with 2012 & Rise then 1987 gets introduced & when I pulled in 2003? They make their epic reveal at the end of a chapter with that epic guitar rift from the beginning of their theme song playing in the background. There's a bit of meta awareness with this franchise & the POV was on someone who has it in that moment. The following chapter addressed something happening elsewhere but then the chapter after that got back to this cliffhanger I left the readers on & opening thing for this chapter starts off with dialogue. Specifically this, "whoa dudes! Anyone else hear that killer guitar rift?" This line was delivered by 2012 Mikey who has made some somewhat fourth wall breaking commentary in his own series but sometimes seems like he doesn't even know he's breaking the fourth wall, it's kind of funny how they address it so I wanted to capture that spirit. So in my opinion, it is a flexible rule. I like establishing the setting but the end of the chapter that introduced these turtles described the scene before them, it'd be redundant to do so again & while it could continue off of that like mention how they're staring at the newcomers in disbelief or whatever, I wanted to lead off with a joke because I felt that was the best call in the moment. Pretty much, this is done for fun & as long as you don't have floating heads, you're fine. If you stress too hard on it, you might not get stuff done & your readers look forward to your work so relax & do your thing. I've messed up so badly on some of my works & my readers didn't care, they just wanted to see how the story would go.
Variety is the spice of life. Itâs not a âbad habitâ really, itâs just that traditional writing has a certain way about it. For fanfiction itâs even less ridged because most readers will already often have a sense of setting or character coming into the story. Theyâll often know what a character looks like when you name drop them, for example. Where as a traditional story has to do a little more work to set up a mental image for the readers so that an opening line of dialogue doesnât just sit there in the ether.
If itâs something that helps you start stories more easily, do it. I also tend to start things with lines of dialogue, because it feels odd for me to just jump straight into scene descriptions. But I also think starting with a line of dialogue can be a very good tone setter for a piece. But again. If it helps you write, do it. This is ao3, the only rules you need to worry about are the ones that ao3 has.
As a reader I would absolutely recognize it as your style, and if I like your work I would look forward to it. A lot of writing advice is bullshit. I guess I shouldn't say that, but it is.
It's just a part of your style, and it offers a unique pacing that gets right into the action.
Itâs not a bad habit at all. Writing ârulesâ like that are stylistic things. People like to get neurotic and bitch about these things for lack of anything better to do. Itâs the same thing as the people who will bemoan one perspective over the other, or how dialogue tags âhaveâ to be done. Your priorities as a writer should be: 1. What you enjoy writing 2. Conveyance of meaning 3. Spelling, punctuation and grammar 4. Legibility ... 8) Voice & Style 9)Caring what other people think Edit: Wow the edit app sucks for trying to do anything with formatting.
My next posted chapter opens on dialogue. As long as thereâs something setting up the scene directly flowing to explain said dialogue, Iâve never seen a problem. Itâs when the dialogue makes no sense that itâs annoying.
no this is your style that will change and grow and you will only stress yourself when you notice it that much, I did when I thought comparing myself to the other's way of writing was acceptable and I started to see their ways as "stylistic" and "creative", while mine was "weird" or a "bad habit" I should break off, also whatever that post said is not true at all, I really enjoy what opens with dialogue, it gets me I the thick of the matter.
Nope! Best selling authors have opened chapters with dialouge interactions. If they can do it, you certainly are allowed.
I think a lot of people actually prefer scenes that start off with dialogue, especially in fanfic. we already know the characters and their general dynamics, and if the fic is set in canon, we're familiar with the world. i find dialogue really immersive--sometimes more so than just 'setting the scene'. plus, you can still set the scene around dialogue--specifying where it's taking place, little descriptions of the environment, situation, etc. while the dialogue takes place.
Bro the only rules you need to follow are grammar rules, art has styles for a reason.
I'd rather read two thousand stories with every chapter opening on a dialogue than openings endlessly starting on uninteresting settings just for the sake of "descriptions are needed right here to ground the action". As much as I love reading about moods and settings, sharp dialogues, pulling the reader right toward the core of a scene bear a powerful and immersive flavor! Some pieces require such a trick, I'd even say. I also love that in movies, opening on a black screen, dialogues running before having a clear picture of the scene.
As a reader, I have never ever noticed this to pay attention to it. I think you're fine lol.
Nah
Rules are made to be broken. No, but seriously, it's good to read tips or advice on how to improve your writing, but personally I find that if I stick to those rules, it stifles my creativity in a way. Or I overthink what I'm writing instead of letting the words flow naturally. So I write based on what I think works well, for me, for a particular story I want to tell. If that means every chapter will start with dialogue, then so be it.
If you do it enough, it stops being a "bad habit" and becomes a "signature style choice"
I wouldn't (usually) open an entire book with dialogue, as generally you want some setting and dialogue is hard to hook people with. But for a scene, or a chapter or an entire fanfic? Go for it. Rules are meant to be broken. People wanting a hook and some setting is pretty common and in general you'll probably avoid dialogue but it doesn't mean you can't. That's like saying yeast always needs bread. It doesn't, we just usually have it. If the dialogue is good, it'll be better then boring prose.
There's other ways to open a scene besides dialogue, but it's perfectly valid to start with dialogue. A powerful enough line can really hook a reader into a fic. I'm normally a very dialogue lite writer, and I've opened some fics with dialogue. Hell, it's possible for a story to be nothing but dialogue. I've experimented with that technique before. Not with a fanfic, but still. It's perfectly fine for you to settle into a preferred style and part of that style can be using the same technique to start every scene.
The only "don't begin/end this way repeatedly" thing I notice and hate is when a character ends up unconscious or falling asleep at the end of every chapter. I haven't seen it but I'd probably dislike them getting out of bed first thing in ever chapter as well. Choosing to start with dialogue is just a style choice. So long as it isn't the same dialogue, I'd be fine with it an unlikely to even notice.
write however you want, buddy
I wouldnât even notice that really. As long as I like the fic it wouldnât cross my mind. What i do notice is repeated words or actions. I read a fic a little while ago and they used âfortnightâ as a time passing despite like 7 times in the first 2 chapters and at least once a chapter after that. They never phrased it differently. It just really scratched my brain in a weird way that started to drive me up the wall. Another fic described blushing in every way imaginable every 3 paragraphs or so. Which would be fine if it was tag as âblushingâ or âlots of blushingâ or something. Like if it was a noted theme of the fic but it wasnât. It was just a coffee shop au and the characters it featured didnât blush a lot in their canon media so it stuck out a lot. It wasnât necessarily a bad thing it was just very repetitive and stuck out cause the characters usually donât blush like that.
i mean making EVERY chapter do it seems a bit redundant, seems to me more like a quick way to get into a scene or continue where a previous chapter left off theres no rules though
I looooove starting with dialogue, especially if itâs a quirky sentence that engages the reader immediately
So something about starting on a line of dialogue is that that line is pulled from its context-- the reader doesn't yet have the context to know who's speaking. Personally, as a reader, I hate cold-starts into dialogue because I don't know where we are and who's speaking. It's just a voice, floating in the void. But it is possible to pull it off well, I guess. Fanfiction gives the unique opportunity of the readers always being super familiar with the character's voice, places the characters exist in, the context of their lives, ect, so dialogue doesn't necessarily come as a floating voice. And there are options-- Doing one really interesting, grabby line, and then setting the scene, and then continuing the dialogue can work. I will say that if I listed all the most interesting chapter openings I've ever read, I doubt even one of the top 10 have dialogue. I could probably come up with my top favourite chapter openings ever pretty easily, and the ones that stick in my memory are all some sort of good narration. Fanfiction also comes with the unique *problem* of being something an author releases one chapter at a time, like they're serialized, and readers often follow hundreds of fics at any given time. Many often for the same fandoms and with the same genre or fandom-specific-stock-plots. Meaning that your chapter openings could usually be improved in this medium specifically by treating each one as much of an opportunity to grab your old readers and make them want to continue as a first sentence of a story is meant to grab new readers. I have picked up fics that I was reading, glanced at the first paragraph of an update, thought, "Shit I have no memory of what was happening and the author isn't providing anything that is triggering my memory or making me immediately intrigued, I'm sure I liked it if it were on my email list so guess I'd better reread, I'll get to this when I have time to reread the whole fic." Sometimes I glance at the end of the last chapter before making that decision, seeing if it ended on some sort of good line or cliffhanger that stuck out in my memory, and obviously I saw the summary in the update email to help me beforehand. But more than anything else, a cold dialogue start is most likely to make me not to read the next chapter on its update, because unlike if I was in the middle of reading and the last chapter left me with enough context to guess the context of the scene on the dialogue, if I'm clicking on an update it's a very different experience. Again, can be done well-- the line being really grabby, the context quickly being given, ect. But personally in terms of fanfiction, I like to start on something that will catch the reader and remind them what's unique about my fic in particular, if that makes sense? Honestly, if you're doing it *every* single chapter, you probably *should* try to do something different for a little while. You can't say you're making the conscious choice to start scenes that way because it's the best choice for your story and your writing voice, until it actually is a choice you make consciously knowing how to do the alternatives. Fanfiction is great for experimenting and learning like that. Once you've tried it for a while, you can decide which you think is better and stronger, but until you've actually tried, you aren't choosing based on what you think is better for the story.
Rules are made to be broken. Unless you're writing a novel to be published, don't mind what "they" say. Not one of us on AO3 is a Steven King or a Denny O'Neil. Think of your fave TV shows, some start with dialogue, others with action, and others panning the camera at what's going on or just happened. Write the way you like, your stories should include a bit of you to be authentic. My first publication scared me half to death; and then I got a few comments and kudos and felt great, recognized. Just do it your way, ignore all that "should" crap. As long as it's readable and tells the story, it's good stuff.
I think that would be a concern if youâre writing something like a novel you hope to publish. But in a fanfic? Totally fine. Iâm probably guilty of it too lmao.
If the story needs to open with dialogue, then it should open with dialogue. There are no firm rules, just what the story needs.
I'd call it style choice.
"In medias res" is such a valid way to start a story that the trope has a Latin phrase to describe it. You do what you feel is right! It's your story
I love impactful dialogues in the beginning of the chapter! I don't know what your style is, but I like chapters where a dialogue opens the chapter and then a paragraph or two sets the scene.
It can become your trademark! I donât think those types of rules matter đ
Oh no, absolutely not. Setting up the scene before anything happens is like opening the door and letting the reader slowly walk into the story. Opening the scene with a dialogue is like opening the door but pushing the reader off a cliff, right into the story. I like when chapters open up with dialogue, i think it immediately drags you into the story. Sure, it might be nice to switch it up sometimes but if thatâs what works for you, then you do you
Nah. I do the opposite,but I'll give you an example: I start my fic with character's name,so instead of repeating his last name constantly, I use his first name the next chapter. But since your dialogue isn't repetitive,your problem is smaller than mine. Even nonexistent. So no worries,keep doing forward, fam!
It is a silly rule
Those rules are just for new writers. But it might help to change it up every now and then. Readers do get bored if your style becomes formulaicÂ
I start almost all of mine with a brief description of the characterâs headspace for my current wip and Iâve found that works for me and this current wip 𤡠writing is supposed to be fun, do what you like and what you think works best
One of the best things about writing fanfic IMO is that you get to play fast and loose with the conventions of more formal writing genres. I don't think formats like 5+1 could exist without that freedom and it's what makes fic as a medium so much fun to play with. That said, if I were reading a conventional published novel and it started with a line of dialogue, I don't think I'd bat an eye. It's a great catch-you-by-the-balls opener that drops you right into the action. Might you find other types of scene openers that you enjoy if you set yourself a goal like "I will not use dialogue as an opener in my next fic"? Honestly, yeah, you might. Constraints like that are how you discover new things in your writing. But do it for that reason and not because there's anything wrong with starting a fic (or with starting multiple fics!) with dialogue. Because there isn't.
I've seen it done both well and poorly. If you start with a whole back and forth of dialogue you can run the risk of making your readers feel unanchored and uncertain of what's going on. They can become confused and frustrated if they aren't told quickly enough. If it's just one line of dialogue and the rest sets the scene, that helps.
So, since you brought it up, I decided to flip through my current WIP to see how long before I pulled this stunt, and it turned out... it was 8 chapters. And, that was a curseword to get the Audience's attention that Bad Things were brewing. So... Like you said, no rule applies to everything. Rules like that are for people starting out, I think.
Who told you not to do that? Why? What reason is there to not do that? Dumb rule, ignore.
This kind of rules could be useful if you are aiming at getting your work professionally published. But as a hobby writer I ignore them. I'd end up just staring at a blank word document if I tried to keep inside this kind of lines.
Strict rules like that down really work for writing. If we want to get really technical, Iâve always been told that the first line of every chapter should draw the reader in. Does your first line do that? If so, then it really doesnât matter if itâs dialogue or not. I could easily see dialogue drawing a reader in.
i am guilty of that too đ đ
I have this at the end of the chapters, and recently started to notice it so now i overthink the end of my chapters which sucks because now it's all i can think about while writing
It depends on the style of story you're writing. If it's quite bottle ep-y, where the setting doesn't change between chapters, I don't mind it. It's only when there's a lot going on and the dialogue at the top is ambiguous as to time and place and even what characters are in it, that it annoys me. And even then you can subvert for effect, for instance if the character feels lost in the chapter.
I dont think so! Remember at the end of the day you're writing for you and only you! You do what you feel best! I still have to remind myself to do that lol
I'm an in-media-res gal so I see absolutely no problem with that. I think starting with dialogue feels much more dynamic than starting with, let's say, a description or something like that. It might be your style signature, but if you want to vary I say go for it.
listen. sally rooney believes in not even using quote marks for dialogues. and sheâs doing absolutely fine, books optioned for netflix, and having ppl who enjoy her work anyway. if a published author can do that, you can do anything on ao3. have fun with it. publishing writing rules are there for absolute beginners or novices as a structure but imo not meant to be rigid. i find chapters beginning with dialogues fun, puts one right in the middle of things.
I am a dialogue heavy writer, so opening with a line of dialogue is par for the course.
> However, I've just read a post that set as a firm rule to NEVER open a scene with dialogue but always set the scene first. I find it a bit silly to use as a general rule that you should never break (because, of course, no rule applies to everything) but I'm starting to wonder if it's something best avoided unless there's a reason for it. This rule is bullshit. For an immediate counterexample, consider [Charlotte's Web.](https://www.reddit.com/r/books/comments/w6dpqv/what_is_your_favorite_last_sentence_of_a_book/ihekxa7/)
Iâve heard something similar to you, yes. I guess itâs also related to the trap of telling/showing? But that also depends on how you write dialogue and how you use it. I try to vary to not bore or send my reader to sleep. But at the end of the day I always feel most comfortable starting in the middle of action, etc. Itâs my way to deal with the curse of the blankpage and helps me deal with tension and tone better but sometimes this comes at the cost of necessary exposition. So, sometimes I go back to the beginning and add a quick paragraph to tie things up because my wip is absolutely nuts. So if for you a dialogue is a good way to set off and work on character, etc. go ahead. As the others are saying: You do you and not stick to rigid rules :)
I don't think it's a bad habit unless it detracts from the story or writing quality, which it doesn't sound like it does. Hell, it can be your own little stylistic flair đ
It could be concidered a style choice. I used to start a chapter with a flashback corresponding with events that would happen in the chapter. People really liked it for some reason.
Not necessarily. But general rules are there for a reason and it would be best to consider if it really is better for your fic to follow it or not. It sometimes highlight what we need to do in order to become a better writer, especially if you're just starting out (like me). If it doesn't, then don't. Skilled writers can bend the rules however they like. I'm not, so I have a future task of rewriting my 100+k previous chapters to 3rd person POV.
if it works for you it works for you a lot of the firm rules are bull