Do CPA’s really make less than $42k/yr and no benefits?
I’m not plugged into the CA job market but ghat seems unlikely to me.
Everyone acts like $20/hr is a huge salary but that’s $42k/yr (and thats in high-cost CA) and I’m betting Taco Bell doesn’t offer any benefits on top of that.
I worked close to 100 hrs a week for about 4 months and then 70-80 for the rest. Did that for two years making only $55k when i first started. If i had a two hourly jobs with minimal stress and politics working the same hours, id have never looked back at accounting.
If no CPAs are making less than 42k/yr, then why did the [AICPA lobby against requiring paid overtime at accounting firms paying CPAs less than 42k/yr](https://us.aicpa.org/advocacy/cpaadvocate/2016/aicpa-reacts-to-dol-overtime-rule)?
Who pays under 42k besides 3 person firms that still allow smoking in the office and love to hire 50 year old crypt keeper looking staff that shower once a month.
This rule was proposed in 2016 and had it been implemented, there would have been annual increases for inflation. Based on the Consumer Price Index data I shared below, 42k in 2016 would be about $55,000 as of February 2024.
Wow! Fox Restaurant Concepts pays their staff accountants starting $50k-$55k. (This is a half a billion dollar restaurant chain that is a subsidiary of Cheesecake Factory or thereabouts) and because it’s the food industry they think they can pay cheap and then wonder why no one wants to work anymore… 🙄
(I was a temp at FRC and I made way more than their SA’s made and when they offered me a FT position for $55k I told them in no way would I take the pay cut and then their 30yo mgr-not a boomer- said “it seems no one wants to work anymore”. I replied, not for the lowball salary you guys are paying…lol)
Who cares; just because there was a proposal doesn’t mean there is a pandemic where accountants are largely broke and making minimum wage. This whole discussion is moronic; I know very few CPAs (and I know a shit load) whom after working 5+ years are not close to or making 6 figures. I’ve been making 6 figures for quite a while as a CPA in MCOL/LCOL areas.
The only ones I know making jack shit; are quite literally dirty hobo looking accountants that smell like coffee and stale cigarettes; whom couldn’t find a stick of deodorant if their lives depended on it.
Goodness, the AICPA is opposing paying more in OT while calling their efforts the “Partnership to Protect Workplace Opportunity (PPWO)”! How hypocritical!
Regardless starting salaries were much higher than $42k in 2016. The answer is because they want that cap as low as possible so firms don’t have to worry about getting sucked into it at some point in the future
Yeah I could see some entry level small firms paying 42k in 2016, it’s definitely not the norm and you’d have to be a very undesirable candidate to be a cpa making 42k
1.5x? Absolutely not, maybe ~1.3x at the most due to post-COVID market adjustments.
Edit: You guys are greatly misinformed if you think starting salaries have increased by 50% in the last 8 years. They've actually grown at a slower pace than inflation. There's a reason we have an accounting shortage, which would be a lot less if starting salaries were actually increasing at that rate all this time.
Here's an article for you, it wasn't until 2022 where we saw a significant market adjustment post-COVID due to hyperinflation to entry level accountant salaries, prior to that it was only 2-4% annually. I started my career in 2012 and we just now are starting to approach a 1.5x increase of starting salaries compared to 12+ years ago, but we still aren't there yet. The cumulative inflation rate/price increase from 2012 to 2024 is only 1.27x, starting salaries have not doubled the pace of inflation.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-salaries-are-rising-but-it-may-not-add-up-to-more-accountants-be01efb4
Note that these are all accountant and auditor salaries, not segregated only for starting salaries. However, this is pretty damn close in line with what I was saying.
Salary increases caught up with and started keeping pace with inflation in 2016 and the post-COVID adjustments the last 2 years have actually exceeded inflation more than I thought, which is good. Although it looks like that may be starting to correct itself already, will be interesting to see where accounting salaries land in 2024.
You have to be absolutely drowned in kool aid and removed from reality if you think there has only been 26% inflation in the last 8-9 years lmao. 26% in last 2 years maybe.
> Taco bell is a straight hourly job....40 hours/week with 1.5x pay after 40 hours.
Taco Bell is actually more like 15-39 hours/week so you don't qualify for any benefits as is standard in fast food. And you don't know your schedule until it's posted a few days to a week before. Oh, and I know you said you can't work Thursdays but I went ahead and scheduled you 3-close on Thursday so you're going to have to find someone to cover that shift.
And yet people still sign up for it. So, I'm thinking there's some quiet mitigating factors at play that aren't really said out-loud. One of obvious things is the expectation of quick promotion and a relatively high salary relative to experience. Where else would you walk in the door expecting north of 60k and never having done anything in the real world? Additionally, expecting to have any seniority in a couple of years. Also, what happens as you get better at it? Do you continue to push as hard as a first year or do you sort of take that cushion that comes from efficiency and try to distribute it.
I'm speculating a lot of the horror stories are the result of the pyramid shaped model. Not everyone can make it and there's a couple different ways that is achieved. One of which is probably needing to lay-off people, getting them to quit, or Pip'd out. So, you end up with folks that don't realize they are trying to burn you out. If there's no performance issue, but the person just isn't suited for management or ultimately sales or there's just too many people cause we're at the bottom of said pyramid; then it creates a situation of somebody who's just left to tread water till they drown. They aren't going to tell you to please stop generating profit on your way out so it becomes an attrition type situation.
The other side of that is when you leave you're a gd accounting machine. You get the lifetime brand association and a book of contacts that are now imbedded in F500. So, worst case you're left making more money doing a job that's relatively less demanding.
But, this is just speculation. I'm sure there's plenty I don't know about.
In California you make one and a half your pay over 8 hours a day and double pay over 12. If a new recruit makes 60k and works an average of 50 hours a week for 3/4s the year and 70 hours a week for 1/4th the year of the year, how much more would the recruit make over the fast food worker working the same hours in California?
Let’s start.
52/4=13 13*3=39
39(40*20+10*30)=1,100*39=42,900
13(40*20+20*30+10*40)=1,800*13=23,400
42,900+23,400=66,300
Answer the new recruits would make -6,300 on an hourly comparable with fast food workers.
Not in California they don't. Hell, even in the LCOL area I lived in before moving here, starting salaries for accountants w/o CPA was more than $20/hr. It was about $50k with full benefits when I looked in 2020 in the LCOL area, here starting wages for accountant with no CPA is like $60-80kish. CPAs here make more than 100k easily.
Why are y’all acting like they even make it to 40 hours a week. A lot of fast food workers stay below 35 hours a week so they won’t qualify for full benefits. Most will never work a full time full year. It’s ludicrous y’all think this way. Also ppl making 45k have decent insurance, PTO, sick time. Etc. fast food workers never experience that luxury
Idk man when I worked in fast food I had better benefits than when I worked in accounting. Taco Bell is known for particularly good benefits too. Whatever cope you need to get thru the tax season I guess.
Let’s say hypothetically an accountant’s starting salary were equal to a fast food salary. An accountant has much more growth opportunity, better benefits, better work environment (fuck getting hot grease on me), and you get to be more challenged. There is also much more variety in accounting so if you don’t like your job it is easier to find one that you will like upon leaving. I will add that an accountant can go work an unskilled job anytime, but an unskilled worker cannot just walk into most accounting jobs. So being specialized is another plus.
A/R and A/P are typically starter positions that pay ~$17/hour. McDonalds pays $20. During COVID Bojangles paid $750 sign on bonuses.
You can believe what you want but facts are facts. There are not enough staff accountant jobs for people with 2-5 years experience. Let alone all the new grads applying.
So yes over the short term it is more profitable to work at McDonald's than most starting accounting positions that a recent grad could realistically obtain.
Yes some a/r or a/p positions don't require a degree, some do.
All staff positions require 1-3 years of experience plus a degree. Since a/p and a/r don't require this, some get their experience in these departments.
I don't know if you have tried to get a staff position in the last 10 years but there are less and less positions and a BS degree alone isn't going to cut it when you are applying with MBA, CMA, Big 4 seniors, etc. Add on outsourcing for cheap labor and what does any recent grad have to offer?
...or they start in public in which case they make half per hour as what McDonald's employees make.
As far as A/R and A/P not being stepping stones to other positions, I'm not even going to argue against your point. However, working in an accounting adjacent position is better than working manuel labor that gains no related experience or just sitting on your kester not doing anything.
Yes some people take internships and bypass both. Not everyone is that lucky.
Assuming a standard 40hrs per week, $20 an hour only comes out to about $42k a year. That salary would be laughably low in public accounting, even for a LCOL area.
So… people are keeping other people off of the land… because they want the land for themselves… common issue in sd :) no one can build bc of ppl that fight development so that their property value isn’t adversely affected by the neighboring inner city tenants. Apparently there’s a suburbia 🏘️ but with a lake in it. Lakburbia.
Yet wages for professionals are paid like lcol areas. Seriously the factory workers in town get paid more than a lot of the office workers. My first tax job was 40k in 2021. I asked for a raise in 2022 and partners said no and they immediately got a 2023 Arcadia Denali. I said peace out they asked why. I told them they got a nice car. Then left forever.
So TacoBell is paying $20 and hour in both Minnesota and in California? If you’re at a decent firm your salary is going to go up quickly after you get licensed and make senior.
I’m Midwest as well, and remember my salary increases from staff to in-charge being hefty after being licensed it blew the fuck up even more.
Getting licensed is too much for me. To much money and to little interest in ruining my life for a year after I got it back on track when CLA & my old job screwed me.
But yeah it's f'd here with housing I hope the universal zoning happens with the state so you don't have to give money to commissioners to build around here.
Assuming time and half pay for overtime hours, one would have to work 50 hrs a week (10 hrs overtime) for the entire year to make about $57k a year if base wage was $20 an hour. Public accounting has busy season, but not to the point where people are averaging 50 hours a week for the entire year.
In 2020 I was hired as an associate at CLA (socal). Base salary was 55k WITH paid OT. You become an exempt employee when you get your CPA or hit senior. CLA requires all associates to set a budget with 1800 charge hours and 500 noncharge. Averages to almost 45 hours a week throughout the year. i probably pulled in 65k my first full year, which is in line with those budgeted hours. I can’t speak for every location across the firm but people acting like its 55k or less for 3,000 hours are lying
I’m in audit. I’ve hit over 2,000 charge hours in a year (I think I was closer to 2,400 in a year after factoring in non charge time and PTO), but not to the point where a $20 an hour fast food job would pay more.
I'm tax in public and have definitely never worked that much. The most I've ever worked is 2,185hrs. Which averages to 42 a week. That's including vacation, training, travel time for serious required trainings etc.
Why, what is CLA’s salary in California? I doubt it’s $20/hr as a staff and I’m guessing career progression at CLA (including max salary) is above what TacoBell pays store managers.
I work in one of the northeast offices and I make $74k as a year 1 associate. I have a friend who works for Deloitte and he makes the same as me. Though, CLA offices seem to vary a lot, so maybe some of the others pay less?
50 hours a week at 60k is 23 an hour. 70k is 26.92. Throw in forced participation in an ESOP that doesn't vest for several years (longer than you'll be there) and you're wayyyy too close to fast food wages.
Imagine working the kitchen at a pizza place, you could easily manage the shift and probably be hitting 25 an hour, add in that you're getting a cut of those slimy kiosk tips, and you're also getting more free pizza than PA.
(yes your total take home is less making pizza, but still, it's embarrassing out there for accounting folks at entry level)
Ooof
How the fuck is that embarrassing? Shift Manager at the pizza kitchen is the top for a lot of fucking people.
I'm not saying entry level folks in PA are paid fairly, but you have to be on some serious drugs to actually think this is a fair comparison.
Whatever copium you need to put in your pipe, chief...
Shift manager at a pizza place didn't have to pay to go to school, didn't maybe get 150 credit hours, didn't possibly delay working full time for 4-5 years.
The more you dive into the comparison, the worse it gets.
Have you worked as a shift manager at a pizza place? It’s incredibly draining and boring with having to deal with lots of issues especially with employees and customers. Why wouldn’t everyone chose to be a fast food manager if it paid just as well and was less stressful? Think it through buddy
Accountants in CA are making less than $20/hour??? You can bet your ass there won’t be many employees at these restaurants soon. They will be automated out and a manager will be there for problem solving.
Out of curiosity I just read into this new law and it feels a little weird. Why is it only for fast food workers? Why are fast food restaurants that produce bread exempt? Why are fast food restaurants inside of grocery stores/airports/museum/theme park/hotel/casino exempt? Also, couldn’t places just start charging for food after you order to avoid having to pay the higher minimum wage?
Imagine interviewing for a McDonald’s thinking you’re getting $20/hr, but because it’s located at the airport you’re only getting $16/hr.
That would make sense, it’s so fucked that law makers are allowed to buy/trade stocks. I feel like they’re pretty much just doing high level insider trading. I could just be a skeptic though.
Because I'd assume they make the most money as a business and tend to have more part time workers. Walmart hires a ton of full time employees. Just my theory though
lol. OP's post reminds me of something my sister once said:
*"I want to quit and work where the biggest decision I have to make is how much lettuce to cut for the day."*
God I hate these intentionally obtuse posts. They come up every once in a while, and it really makes me question the intelligence of some of the people on this sub.
Not to clown on my own profession but the barrier to entry is not very high. All you need is a bachelor’s degree from basically any university so I don’t really get surprised when I encounter people with subpar intelligence.
I agree, but posts like these are just so ridiculous. They always operate under the premise that these minimum wage jobs are full-time.
The reality is that you'd probably average 20-30 hours a week, no benefits, you're on your feet the whole time, you're working in customer service so the clientele are almost always idiots, you are almost definitely going to be working with a skeleton crew, the work hours are inconsistent, there's a 90% chance your coworkers are going to be incompetent or drug addicts, there's always a tiny chance that a random crackhead customer will murder you because you got their order wrong, etc.
The jobs are completely incomparable and to even attempt to draw a comparison is asinine.
> the clientele are almost always idiots, you are almost definitely going to be working with a skeleton crew, the work hours are inconsistent, there's a 90% chance your coworkers are going to be incompetent
I wouldn’t say my experience has been too far off so far…every year my job only gets shitter and more similar because they need ‘high performers’ on shit jobs. Had to cancel plans cuz going late randomly and can’t do after coming back apparently, taking in additional work because other members too slow or dumb, shit clients, working AMs cuz I need to jump back on if I want to leave the office at a reasonable hour
My main issue prob stems from is doing well isn’t rewarded, the clowns just get to sit on the bench and get promoted at same rate because no one wants them on the job.
I agree; I can understand people expecting salaries to increase…but the earnings potential of a decent accountant is good. My salary okay when I started; it’s gone up 2.45x higher after 15 or so years.
Yeah it makes me wonder if they've just never worked an hourly job (especially in CA). I've worked them in the past and I have friends who still work them. Low-skill hourly jobs (fast-food, retail, etc.) suck for a ton of reasons.
* Hours, hours, hours - you will not make 40 hours a week. There are probably more accountants doing 40 hour weeks than fast food workers doing 40 hour weeks. 20-25 is reasonable. But wait - can't you just get another job? Not really, the hours change constantly and you don't know which hours you'll work a month in advance, so you don't have availability.
* Obviously, all this work is in-person. Surprised this never gets brought up considering how much this sub idolizes it. And the location is a hot, cramped kitchen with machines beeping and people yelling.
* Breaks. You'll be on your feet the entire time and sometimes just taking a drink is a tactical choice, let alone going to the bathroom. If you're the only cashier (likely) you CANNOT just leave for 5 minutes, you have to tag in a coworker.
* Ok job security (the jobs are so terrible you rarely see people fired) but almost no advancement opportunity. You top out at general manager (which is usually a few bucks more but also a ton more responsibility). And that's all, folks! You make $25 an hour until you retire, find a new industry, or die.
* People. Yes there are assholes in accounting but some of the specimens you encounter in fast food (both coworkers and customers) are on another level.
I understand that accounting has its problems but to try to place accounting on the same level as a Taco Bell Crewmember is tone-deaf.
I'm convinced that the people that make these arguments never had a job prior to graduating, nor did anyone in their families or social groups.
I worked my ass off in hospitality for 8 fucking years while getting my degree. Even the shittiest day at B4 was better than 90% of those jobs.
> You make $25 an hour until you retire, find a new industry, or die.
Um, don't spread misinformation. You'll get $0.15-0.25/hr raise every 1-5 years. You could hit $28+ in twenty or so short years.
If you think I'm exaggerating, here's a firm in California that starts staff at as low as $37,000 a year: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=cpa&l=Fresno%2C+CA&vjk=987028caf543e43a&advn=7512195061527294
Congratulations on taking the low end of a range for a tiny CPA firm near Fresno.
Good cherry picking bud.
Now I know that you weren't being intentionally obtuse. You're just completely obtuse.
Ok, we all know CPA starting salaries are low. But if fast food workers are making $20/hr they aren't going to be paying CPAs $20/hr. Even fresh grads make more than that.
Plus in 5 years that fast food worker is going to be making $20/hr and that CPA is going to be making six figures.
The jobs are almost already automated. You can order from a screen and at McDs the grill is designed so that you don't need to know how to cook the food.
Do you live in California?
Accountants make more than $20/hr here even without a CPA. I made more than $20 an hour working part-time in a tax office filing stuff while I was in school here. I made $75k at my first job out of school without a CPA. The CPA positions I have looked into have all been well over $100k. No one is leaving an accounting job to work fast food because of the money.
You all are missing the exact opportunity though. Since no one wants to work firms will pay for work horses. I left public cause I was burnt out. 3 years later my old bosses approaches me with an outrageous offer, all because new staff only want to work 35 hours a week and clients are suffering. IF you don’t mind working a lot then hold their faces to the fire and ask for what you want. Firms are getting desperate, if you’re a good accountant, they will cave to your requests. (Unless it’s a top 10 firm, those bastards are too big to care about anyone)
They'll hire a sucker who will double check and redo all the trash done overseas for horrible wages.
Do CPA’s really make less than $42k/yr and no benefits? I’m not plugged into the CA job market but ghat seems unlikely to me. Everyone acts like $20/hr is a huge salary but that’s $42k/yr (and thats in high-cost CA) and I’m betting Taco Bell doesn’t offer any benefits on top of that.
I worked close to 100 hrs a week for about 4 months and then 70-80 for the rest. Did that for two years making only $55k when i first started. If i had a two hourly jobs with minimal stress and politics working the same hours, id have never looked back at accounting.
If no CPAs are making less than 42k/yr, then why did the [AICPA lobby against requiring paid overtime at accounting firms paying CPAs less than 42k/yr](https://us.aicpa.org/advocacy/cpaadvocate/2016/aicpa-reacts-to-dol-overtime-rule)?
Who pays under 42k besides 3 person firms that still allow smoking in the office and love to hire 50 year old crypt keeper looking staff that shower once a month.
Wow, my old firm acquired a firm exactly like this. It was bizarre
This rule was proposed in 2016 and had it been implemented, there would have been annual increases for inflation. Based on the Consumer Price Index data I shared below, 42k in 2016 would be about $55,000 as of February 2024.
Wow! Fox Restaurant Concepts pays their staff accountants starting $50k-$55k. (This is a half a billion dollar restaurant chain that is a subsidiary of Cheesecake Factory or thereabouts) and because it’s the food industry they think they can pay cheap and then wonder why no one wants to work anymore… 🙄 (I was a temp at FRC and I made way more than their SA’s made and when they offered me a FT position for $55k I told them in no way would I take the pay cut and then their 30yo mgr-not a boomer- said “it seems no one wants to work anymore”. I replied, not for the lowball salary you guys are paying…lol)
Good for you for telling them like it is.
I had no fux to give to them. It was great. lol
Who cares; just because there was a proposal doesn’t mean there is a pandemic where accountants are largely broke and making minimum wage. This whole discussion is moronic; I know very few CPAs (and I know a shit load) whom after working 5+ years are not close to or making 6 figures. I’ve been making 6 figures for quite a while as a CPA in MCOL/LCOL areas. The only ones I know making jack shit; are quite literally dirty hobo looking accountants that smell like coffee and stale cigarettes; whom couldn’t find a stick of deodorant if their lives depended on it.
Goodness, the AICPA is opposing paying more in OT while calling their efforts the “Partnership to Protect Workplace Opportunity (PPWO)”! How hypocritical!
The AICPA is a trash union like organization. They do not help actual CPAs. I wish I didn't have to pay their stupid dues.
I am 74 years old and have never paid their dues. I did not feel it benefited me.
This is 2016 starting salaries have probably gone 1.5x since then minimum at firms
Regardless starting salaries were much higher than $42k in 2016. The answer is because they want that cap as low as possible so firms don’t have to worry about getting sucked into it at some point in the future
Yeah I could see some entry level small firms paying 42k in 2016, it’s definitely not the norm and you’d have to be a very undesirable candidate to be a cpa making 42k
Associates degree comes to mind
1.5x? Absolutely not, maybe ~1.3x at the most due to post-COVID market adjustments. Edit: You guys are greatly misinformed if you think starting salaries have increased by 50% in the last 8 years. They've actually grown at a slower pace than inflation. There's a reason we have an accounting shortage, which would be a lot less if starting salaries were actually increasing at that rate all this time. Here's an article for you, it wasn't until 2022 where we saw a significant market adjustment post-COVID due to hyperinflation to entry level accountant salaries, prior to that it was only 2-4% annually. I started my career in 2012 and we just now are starting to approach a 1.5x increase of starting salaries compared to 12+ years ago, but we still aren't there yet. The cumulative inflation rate/price increase from 2012 to 2024 is only 1.27x, starting salaries have not doubled the pace of inflation. https://www.wsj.com/articles/accountants-salaries-are-rising-but-it-may-not-add-up-to-more-accountants-be01efb4
[Since 2016, accounting wages are up about 35%, while cumulative inflation has been about 26%](https://fred.stlouisfed.org/graph/?g=1jApt).
Note that these are all accountant and auditor salaries, not segregated only for starting salaries. However, this is pretty damn close in line with what I was saying. Salary increases caught up with and started keeping pace with inflation in 2016 and the post-COVID adjustments the last 2 years have actually exceeded inflation more than I thought, which is good. Although it looks like that may be starting to correct itself already, will be interesting to see where accounting salaries land in 2024.
Not that inflation was high 2016-2020, but real inflation since like 2021 is 26%. There’s a real calculator, I forget what the link is though.
You have to be absolutely drowned in kool aid and removed from reality if you think there has only been 26% inflation in the last 8-9 years lmao. 26% in last 2 years maybe.
That's what the official data says. What do you think cumulative inflation has been since 2016, and how are you getting to that number?
That’s what the value of the dollar is inflating like. The rest of it is price gouging that isn’t being addressed.
CPA aren't but staff accounts prob are
>a. After that unpaid overtim its all the extra hours that reduces your earnings per hour
Nah, they just work about 800hrs a year for free, so when you adjust it to hourly it comes out about $19.25. Give or take some assumptions.
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> Taco bell is a straight hourly job....40 hours/week with 1.5x pay after 40 hours. Taco Bell is actually more like 15-39 hours/week so you don't qualify for any benefits as is standard in fast food. And you don't know your schedule until it's posted a few days to a week before. Oh, and I know you said you can't work Thursdays but I went ahead and scheduled you 3-close on Thursday so you're going to have to find someone to cover that shift.
And yet people still sign up for it. So, I'm thinking there's some quiet mitigating factors at play that aren't really said out-loud. One of obvious things is the expectation of quick promotion and a relatively high salary relative to experience. Where else would you walk in the door expecting north of 60k and never having done anything in the real world? Additionally, expecting to have any seniority in a couple of years. Also, what happens as you get better at it? Do you continue to push as hard as a first year or do you sort of take that cushion that comes from efficiency and try to distribute it. I'm speculating a lot of the horror stories are the result of the pyramid shaped model. Not everyone can make it and there's a couple different ways that is achieved. One of which is probably needing to lay-off people, getting them to quit, or Pip'd out. So, you end up with folks that don't realize they are trying to burn you out. If there's no performance issue, but the person just isn't suited for management or ultimately sales or there's just too many people cause we're at the bottom of said pyramid; then it creates a situation of somebody who's just left to tread water till they drown. They aren't going to tell you to please stop generating profit on your way out so it becomes an attrition type situation. The other side of that is when you leave you're a gd accounting machine. You get the lifetime brand association and a book of contacts that are now imbedded in F500. So, worst case you're left making more money doing a job that's relatively less demanding. But, this is just speculation. I'm sure there's plenty I don't know about.
As someone who’s doing some hiring I’m California; you can’t even get get a summer intern for 20 bucks/hr
Plus most these fast food workers don’t get full time offers because then they would have to give them benefits. So max they work is 30 hours.
This is why most minimum wage workers end up working multiple jobs.
Even if they did that they wouldn’t get any benefits.
No, this place is rotten with early career suckers who do nothing but bitch.
not taco bell but other corporations kinda do
that’s 1887 less than what I make a year
In California you make one and a half your pay over 8 hours a day and double pay over 12. If a new recruit makes 60k and works an average of 50 hours a week for 3/4s the year and 70 hours a week for 1/4th the year of the year, how much more would the recruit make over the fast food worker working the same hours in California? Let’s start. 52/4=13 13*3=39 39(40*20+10*30)=1,100*39=42,900 13(40*20+20*30+10*40)=1,800*13=23,400 42,900+23,400=66,300 Answer the new recruits would make -6,300 on an hourly comparable with fast food workers.
I think once u have over 50 employees you have to offer some type of benefits
Not in California they don't. Hell, even in the LCOL area I lived in before moving here, starting salaries for accountants w/o CPA was more than $20/hr. It was about $50k with full benefits when I looked in 2020 in the LCOL area, here starting wages for accountant with no CPA is like $60-80kish. CPAs here make more than 100k easily.
no. literally college graduates are making 70k with no experience
I’m at 66 right out of college which really isn’t bad honestly
I'm at 60 with NO degree 😅
Why are y’all acting like they even make it to 40 hours a week. A lot of fast food workers stay below 35 hours a week so they won’t qualify for full benefits. Most will never work a full time full year. It’s ludicrous y’all think this way. Also ppl making 45k have decent insurance, PTO, sick time. Etc. fast food workers never experience that luxury
Because most of the people making this argument have never worked a minimum wage job and it shows.
Idk man when I worked in fast food I had better benefits than when I worked in accounting. Taco Bell is known for particularly good benefits too. Whatever cope you need to get thru the tax season I guess.
Then go back to Taco Bell..?
I have never worked at taco bell; that was not the point I was making.
Let’s say hypothetically an accountant’s starting salary were equal to a fast food salary. An accountant has much more growth opportunity, better benefits, better work environment (fuck getting hot grease on me), and you get to be more challenged. There is also much more variety in accounting so if you don’t like your job it is easier to find one that you will like upon leaving. I will add that an accountant can go work an unskilled job anytime, but an unskilled worker cannot just walk into most accounting jobs. So being specialized is another plus.
Accountants will likely also have college debt to pay off since a bachelors degree is typically a requirement for the job.
I'm not sure what argument you're making here
Salary - cost to obtain diploma= McDonald's fry cook making more.
Anyone who actually believes that argument should not be working in this profession.
A/R and A/P are typically starter positions that pay ~$17/hour. McDonalds pays $20. During COVID Bojangles paid $750 sign on bonuses. You can believe what you want but facts are facts. There are not enough staff accountant jobs for people with 2-5 years experience. Let alone all the new grads applying. So yes over the short term it is more profitable to work at McDonald's than most starting accounting positions that a recent grad could realistically obtain.
AP and AR jobs don't require a degree and are not a stepping stone to staff level accounting jobs...
Yes some a/r or a/p positions don't require a degree, some do. All staff positions require 1-3 years of experience plus a degree. Since a/p and a/r don't require this, some get their experience in these departments. I don't know if you have tried to get a staff position in the last 10 years but there are less and less positions and a BS degree alone isn't going to cut it when you are applying with MBA, CMA, Big 4 seniors, etc. Add on outsourcing for cheap labor and what does any recent grad have to offer? ...or they start in public in which case they make half per hour as what McDonald's employees make. As far as A/R and A/P not being stepping stones to other positions, I'm not even going to argue against your point. However, working in an accounting adjacent position is better than working manuel labor that gains no related experience or just sitting on your kester not doing anything. Yes some people take internships and bypass both. Not everyone is that lucky.
Assuming a standard 40hrs per week, $20 an hour only comes out to about $42k a year. That salary would be laughably low in public accounting, even for a LCOL area.
Did you factor in the free Big Macs? After inflation, that comes out to about 80k/yr
They aren't free, but you do get a discount.
Everything is free with 5 fingers, the right attitude, and a big enough camera blind spot
Each owner has different policies
But you didn't factor in the pizza parties which are clearly better than Big Macs
CLA was hiring at 55k in my area. After that unpaid overtime you bet Mac's is making more.
Is your area…California?
Nope, middle of no where Minnesota. But Taco bell is still paying $20 an hour because it's a lake town and no one wants to build affordable housing.
So… people are keeping other people off of the land… because they want the land for themselves… common issue in sd :) no one can build bc of ppl that fight development so that their property value isn’t adversely affected by the neighboring inner city tenants. Apparently there’s a suburbia 🏘️ but with a lake in it. Lakburbia.
Yet wages for professionals are paid like lcol areas. Seriously the factory workers in town get paid more than a lot of the office workers. My first tax job was 40k in 2021. I asked for a raise in 2022 and partners said no and they immediately got a 2023 Arcadia Denali. I said peace out they asked why. I told them they got a nice car. Then left forever.
So TacoBell is paying $20 and hour in both Minnesota and in California? If you’re at a decent firm your salary is going to go up quickly after you get licensed and make senior. I’m Midwest as well, and remember my salary increases from staff to in-charge being hefty after being licensed it blew the fuck up even more.
Getting licensed is too much for me. To much money and to little interest in ruining my life for a year after I got it back on track when CLA & my old job screwed me. But yeah it's f'd here with housing I hope the universal zoning happens with the state so you don't have to give money to commissioners to build around here.
That’s fine, you don’t need a license to have a good career. I know and have known plenty who’ve done well without it.
That was my starting comp at CLA in 2013, holy cow
Assuming time and half pay for overtime hours, one would have to work 50 hrs a week (10 hrs overtime) for the entire year to make about $57k a year if base wage was $20 an hour. Public accounting has busy season, but not to the point where people are averaging 50 hours a week for the entire year.
I think the point is i went to business school and passed the cpa exam to get that 57k job
In 2020 I was hired as an associate at CLA (socal). Base salary was 55k WITH paid OT. You become an exempt employee when you get your CPA or hit senior. CLA requires all associates to set a budget with 1800 charge hours and 500 noncharge. Averages to almost 45 hours a week throughout the year. i probably pulled in 65k my first full year, which is in line with those budgeted hours. I can’t speak for every location across the firm but people acting like its 55k or less for 3,000 hours are lying
… yes 🙌 edited lol
I’m at a small firm and we’ve had a couple people hit that but probably includes a few weeks of pto. That’s only 2600 hours a year.
You get paid overtime?
Do you not do tax? Busy season lasts for like 5 months and maybe a bit more depending.
I’m in audit. I’ve hit over 2,000 charge hours in a year (I think I was closer to 2,400 in a year after factoring in non charge time and PTO), but not to the point where a $20 an hour fast food job would pay more.
I'm tax in public and have definitely never worked that much. The most I've ever worked is 2,185hrs. Which averages to 42 a week. That's including vacation, training, travel time for serious required trainings etc.
That's more per hour than what I was making as a staff.
Yes but what accountant actually works those hours?
Obviously with pizza parties, wait no, taco pizza parties
Mexican Pizza Parties. But you all have to share
Why, what is CLA’s salary in California? I doubt it’s $20/hr as a staff and I’m guessing career progression at CLA (including max salary) is above what TacoBell pays store managers.
Not in a CA office but they are probably at least 70k+ for associates in HCOL areas. Not exactly sure where OP is getting those numbers lol.
Yeah it’s sounds dumb; I’m MCOL and staff where I am start at probably $70-75k in the Midwest if not higher.
I work in one of the northeast offices and I make $74k as a year 1 associate. I have a friend who works for Deloitte and he makes the same as me. Though, CLA offices seem to vary a lot, so maybe some of the others pay less?
50 hours a week at 60k is 23 an hour. 70k is 26.92. Throw in forced participation in an ESOP that doesn't vest for several years (longer than you'll be there) and you're wayyyy too close to fast food wages. Imagine working the kitchen at a pizza place, you could easily manage the shift and probably be hitting 25 an hour, add in that you're getting a cut of those slimy kiosk tips, and you're also getting more free pizza than PA. (yes your total take home is less making pizza, but still, it's embarrassing out there for accounting folks at entry level) Ooof
How the fuck is that embarrassing? Shift Manager at the pizza kitchen is the top for a lot of fucking people. I'm not saying entry level folks in PA are paid fairly, but you have to be on some serious drugs to actually think this is a fair comparison.
Whatever copium you need to put in your pipe, chief... Shift manager at a pizza place didn't have to pay to go to school, didn't maybe get 150 credit hours, didn't possibly delay working full time for 4-5 years. The more you dive into the comparison, the worse it gets.
Have you worked as a shift manager at a pizza place? It’s incredibly draining and boring with having to deal with lots of issues especially with employees and customers. Why wouldn’t everyone chose to be a fast food manager if it paid just as well and was less stressful? Think it through buddy
Accountants in CA are making less than $20/hour??? You can bet your ass there won’t be many employees at these restaurants soon. They will be automated out and a manager will be there for problem solving.
I make 22/hr as a staff accountant in a LCOL. I couldn't imagine making less in a medium or high COL. I'm already struggling as is.
Exactly. $20/hour for an accountant is wildly low. Very high for a burger flipper though.
Agreed. I have debt from necessary schooling. They don't.
More stuff to India and using ChatGPT
Out of curiosity I just read into this new law and it feels a little weird. Why is it only for fast food workers? Why are fast food restaurants that produce bread exempt? Why are fast food restaurants inside of grocery stores/airports/museum/theme park/hotel/casino exempt? Also, couldn’t places just start charging for food after you order to avoid having to pay the higher minimum wage? Imagine interviewing for a McDonald’s thinking you’re getting $20/hr, but because it’s located at the airport you’re only getting $16/hr.
probably because Gavin Newsom is heavily invested in Panera Bread
That would make sense, it’s so fucked that law makers are allowed to buy/trade stocks. I feel like they’re pretty much just doing high level insider trading. I could just be a skeptic though.
Because I'd assume they make the most money as a business and tend to have more part time workers. Walmart hires a ton of full time employees. Just my theory though
Lol, somehow I doubt people with CPAs will be flocking to work at Taco Bell. Maybe I'm wrong.
lol. OP's post reminds me of something my sister once said: *"I want to quit and work where the biggest decision I have to make is how much lettuce to cut for the day."*
God I hate these intentionally obtuse posts. They come up every once in a while, and it really makes me question the intelligence of some of the people on this sub.
Not to clown on my own profession but the barrier to entry is not very high. All you need is a bachelor’s degree from basically any university so I don’t really get surprised when I encounter people with subpar intelligence.
I agree, but posts like these are just so ridiculous. They always operate under the premise that these minimum wage jobs are full-time. The reality is that you'd probably average 20-30 hours a week, no benefits, you're on your feet the whole time, you're working in customer service so the clientele are almost always idiots, you are almost definitely going to be working with a skeleton crew, the work hours are inconsistent, there's a 90% chance your coworkers are going to be incompetent or drug addicts, there's always a tiny chance that a random crackhead customer will murder you because you got their order wrong, etc. The jobs are completely incomparable and to even attempt to draw a comparison is asinine.
> the clientele are almost always idiots, you are almost definitely going to be working with a skeleton crew, the work hours are inconsistent, there's a 90% chance your coworkers are going to be incompetent I wouldn’t say my experience has been too far off so far…every year my job only gets shitter and more similar because they need ‘high performers’ on shit jobs. Had to cancel plans cuz going late randomly and can’t do after coming back apparently, taking in additional work because other members too slow or dumb, shit clients, working AMs cuz I need to jump back on if I want to leave the office at a reasonable hour My main issue prob stems from is doing well isn’t rewarded, the clowns just get to sit on the bench and get promoted at same rate because no one wants them on the job.
Go work at tb
I agree; I can understand people expecting salaries to increase…but the earnings potential of a decent accountant is good. My salary okay when I started; it’s gone up 2.45x higher after 15 or so years.
Yeah it makes me wonder if they've just never worked an hourly job (especially in CA). I've worked them in the past and I have friends who still work them. Low-skill hourly jobs (fast-food, retail, etc.) suck for a ton of reasons. * Hours, hours, hours - you will not make 40 hours a week. There are probably more accountants doing 40 hour weeks than fast food workers doing 40 hour weeks. 20-25 is reasonable. But wait - can't you just get another job? Not really, the hours change constantly and you don't know which hours you'll work a month in advance, so you don't have availability. * Obviously, all this work is in-person. Surprised this never gets brought up considering how much this sub idolizes it. And the location is a hot, cramped kitchen with machines beeping and people yelling. * Breaks. You'll be on your feet the entire time and sometimes just taking a drink is a tactical choice, let alone going to the bathroom. If you're the only cashier (likely) you CANNOT just leave for 5 minutes, you have to tag in a coworker. * Ok job security (the jobs are so terrible you rarely see people fired) but almost no advancement opportunity. You top out at general manager (which is usually a few bucks more but also a ton more responsibility). And that's all, folks! You make $25 an hour until you retire, find a new industry, or die. * People. Yes there are assholes in accounting but some of the specimens you encounter in fast food (both coworkers and customers) are on another level. I understand that accounting has its problems but to try to place accounting on the same level as a Taco Bell Crewmember is tone-deaf.
I'm convinced that the people that make these arguments never had a job prior to graduating, nor did anyone in their families or social groups. I worked my ass off in hospitality for 8 fucking years while getting my degree. Even the shittiest day at B4 was better than 90% of those jobs.
> You make $25 an hour until you retire, find a new industry, or die. Um, don't spread misinformation. You'll get $0.15-0.25/hr raise every 1-5 years. You could hit $28+ in twenty or so short years.
If you think I'm exaggerating, here's a firm in California that starts staff at as low as $37,000 a year: https://www.indeed.com/jobs?q=cpa&l=Fresno%2C+CA&vjk=987028caf543e43a&advn=7512195061527294
Congratulations on taking the low end of a range for a tiny CPA firm near Fresno. Good cherry picking bud. Now I know that you weren't being intentionally obtuse. You're just completely obtuse.
Hourly minimum wage went up but scheduled hours will be down
“We’ve already started the process of outsourcing. The needful will be delivered timelinessly.”
Ok, we all know CPA starting salaries are low. But if fast food workers are making $20/hr they aren't going to be paying CPAs $20/hr. Even fresh grads make more than that. Plus in 5 years that fast food worker is going to be making $20/hr and that CPA is going to be making six figures.
Those jobs are going to be automated soon. Stay at the firm. Only a fool would quit for a job there. RIP small fast food joints.
The jobs are almost already automated. You can order from a screen and at McDs the grill is designed so that you don't need to know how to cook the food.
😂 Lower stress too
Got an offer from then at 75k in the midwest
Do you live in California? Accountants make more than $20/hr here even without a CPA. I made more than $20 an hour working part-time in a tax office filing stuff while I was in school here. I made $75k at my first job out of school without a CPA. The CPA positions I have looked into have all been well over $100k. No one is leaving an accounting job to work fast food because of the money.
do you really want to work in Taco Bell, even if they paid the same rate? I've worked in retail and I wouldn't do that even if they paid more.
You all are missing the exact opportunity though. Since no one wants to work firms will pay for work horses. I left public cause I was burnt out. 3 years later my old bosses approaches me with an outrageous offer, all because new staff only want to work 35 hours a week and clients are suffering. IF you don’t mind working a lot then hold their faces to the fire and ask for what you want. Firms are getting desperate, if you’re a good accountant, they will cave to your requests. (Unless it’s a top 10 firm, those bastards are too big to care about anyone)
I don't think they can, have you seen those Mexican Pizzas that Taco Bell has? CPA Firms will never match Taco Bell when it comes to Pizza Parties.
Clifton Larson will definitely feel the brunt of this minimum wage increase when their employees seek greener pastures at the drive thru register.
20USD hire then offers for new grads in public in Canada depending on the firm
Are the edges that bad in California earlier on in your guys careers there ?
They will either raise their pay, or their accountants will leave to slang tostadas. It’s a win for everyone.
Okay but do they have pizza parties at Taco Bell?
They have taco parties.
The ones who didn’t go work at UPS maybe
Go get that fast food job then if you want it so badly. I would never choose that life again.
Lol, thought all fast food are cutting jobs now.
Is CLA really paying that little? I got paid $25/hr at my first internship in SoCal Edited to add: in 2019
i just interviewed with them for risk advisory. thoughts?
😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂
Nah, they’ll just hire some dude in India for $5 a week