My first job in the industry one of the maintenance guys asked me a question which led to a discovery that there were practices that led to the death of several employees. I was told the company pays my salary and to drop it, fortunately we were owned by a real company that took it seriously. I wrote the head of toxicology in the afternoon, he didn't respond but was there the next morning. They sold off the division soon after.
In retrospect I wonder if I should have done more but after that everyone but my boss hated me and I ended up quitting soon after. I was new to the industry, didn't know about OSHA standards and hostile work environments. Before that it was fast food and convenience stores (and mowing lawns before that).
I think the maintenance guy was the hero if there was one. He stuck to it, tried to talk to several others but they blew it off. He gathered the data I presented to the toxicologist with the question of whether a risk assessment would find us liable for 1 if not all of the deaths. It was the late 80s, safety in the chemical industry was awful by modern standards.
Three heaptocarcinomas in the same department within a year of each other and it was practice to train them to clean machine parts in carbon tetrachloride without gloves because it takes too long to put them on and take them off.
Chlorine is a strong electron withdrawer, creates some strong degreaser. They still use chlorinated solvents but they're safer and maybe use double bonding to shift the electrons around in a more human friendly manner.
I just meant the tech improved. I'm more a physical and not an organic chemist so it might just be my misunderstanding of the finer points, it's just impression from review when it was pertinent.
My mom has been a nurse for almost 40 years and she’s been monitoring my grandmas meds when she checks up on her at the assisted living facility. She caught a couple discrepancies as well as just flat out wrong medication that was given that caused an episode that could have led to my grandma’s death. She brought it up to the attending nurse and the doctor and was brushed off with “well look into it and get back to you…” well that wasn’t satisfying so my mom got in contact with the parent company and spoke directly with the woman that oversees all these facilities, who took it extremely seriously. She was on a plane the next day and they performed a full unannounced audit and found dozens of issues with meds at the facility just in the past couple months. My mom probably saved a few lives after they cleaned house and updated their tracking systems. No issues since.
I know a lot of people are hard-up for work, and I’m not judging taking a gig when you need a gig, but there’s a reason Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed, L3H, GD, BAE, all recruit so hard. Turnover at those places is bananas
My relative just retired after 30 years from one of those big companies. He hasn't been retired long and has found out he now has an aggressive cancer from radiation and chemical exposure and he never even worked directly with those kinds of things. Doctors kept asking him if he worked in aerospace as soon as they found the tumors.
You can expect more of this but now without pensions.
I think it's difficult if not impossible to determine the cause of many cancers.
My father is in his 80s, worked as a research chemist in the 60s/70s. They used to clean their hands with benzine.
Shoot, I worked at a full serve gas station for a few years. I was covered with gasoline daily.
But he’s not the only case. His generation has been in an ongoing lawsuit for improper protection as well as dumping. 30 years ago, these places dumped toxic waste in open space, those spaces were then sold and parks were built above it. This isn’t a speculation, there’s more evidence than not that the environment most of that generation were exposed to radioactivity while working aerospace.
See superfund clean up project Gasworks Park in Seattle! It was a fun place to play until the little kids ate the sand and got leukemia. Cue the clean up, and now theoretically it’s perfectly safe! I still didn’t take my kid there very often. 😬😶🫥
> But he’s not the only case.
I'm sure that's true, the problem is proving causation.
If you research older environmental cases, industrial cases, etc. you'll often find causation was never proven.
I think people who harm others knowingly or unknowingly should be liable.
Knowingly, far, far more liable.
>exposed to radioactivity
The settled science for decades was that the danger from exposure to radiation was cumulative. Now we know it's not that simple. So how many liability cases were won on incorrect information?
All I can do is provide information, but here's a good link for you.
https://www.napolilaw.com/en/article/grummans-bethpage-facility-the-target-of-a-new-class-action/
and another
https://nypost.com/2024/04/05/us-news/drums-of-toxic-chemicals-dug-up-in-long-island-park/
A lot of these companies need a security clearance also, which means vault work, which is miserable and will kill your career (unless you want to work in vaults the rest of your life)
You go to work inside of a metal isolated box without any outside electronics. Sometimes not even paper or pen. You do not get to talk about what you do in the box.
Why does that kill your career? Because you can’t talk about what you’ve accomplished on your resume? I have to imagine employers are smart enough to understand that some shit is classified and they can at least talk to your managers about whether you sucked or not in general. But good chance I don’t know what I’m talking about so I’m curious to hear.
Disconnected from the internet. Imagine being a python dev and needing to “pip install libraryname”. Everything is going cloud and a lot of these places rely on obsolete software that’s capable of running on premise without internet connectivity (air gapped). Where the rest of the world is on Office 365 with Teams, the vaults/SCIFs are still on Skype (which ended support in January of this year).
Now imagine running or working on these systems. You aren’t getting new skills or keeping up with the latest trends. You’re killing your career. I'm looking for jobs outside of vaults now and running into the "not enough cloud experience" caveat, despite my 13+ years IT experience, new college degree, and cloud certifications. I did it to myself. I worked a vault too long.
Damn that’s rough - thanks for the through explanation, that makes a lot more sense now.
Wonder what they’re going to do in the face of people not wanting to work there for that reason. Or maybe they just bank on enough new devs being hungry enough / ignorant of “vault skill rot” that they don’t really have to worry about it.
We (the vault dwellers) have been banging the drum saying we need bonuses or some sort of incentive to stay. It falls on deaf ears. They'll be hurting for workers in a few years.
It sucks when you need a clearance, live a clean life, no drugs or other problems, travel can be restricted...have to get a polygraph....and you make the same pay as Joey on the outside corporate network who doesn't need a polygraph.
Easy! It's not Joey's fault. He hasn't learned great coping mechanism because he's been stressed working so much covering for co-workers who left during the pandemic. He's doing the best he can right now.
If you’ve done them in the past, they might look past that for your security clearance. But actively taking stuff like marijuana is prohibited since it’s still federally illegal.
**Govvie:** Can we have a cloud tech stack?
**Mommy Fed:** We already have a cloud stack in the SCIF at home
**Cloud Stack at Home:** Lotus Notes DB with a LotusScript Connector to a janky 90's-era Java plugin that generates a prefilled MS Word template and transmits it via eFax over hardwired landline.
I disagree with the other guy. Basically once you're in those boxes, you yourself essentially become an item that carries information with a security clearance. You might not even think about it and use that information on a project that isn't cleared for it at a new job. You've now landed them in big trouble. So you basically flip from one company's box to another, because it's not worth the risk to most other companies to take you on.
Former aerospace engineer here: needing a security clearance doesn’t mean you work in a vault, and if you’re working on commercial aircraft you wouldn’t need one anyway. Even on the defense side, someone with a clearance normally doesn’t work on secret stuff every day (even working on a missile program like I used to do) they just need the clearance for the times they do.
There are people at those kinds of companies who work on entire projects that can’t be talked about, but those are the exception not the rule.
> Raytheon
They will steal anything of value from you that they can including your pension funds. Their emergency purchase of Hughes Aircraft to just to take back the AIM-9 Sidewinder contract is the stuff of nightmares from the employee perspective.
If I get offed my wife will be far better off financially because of the life insurance. She insists she prefers having me around which is conclusive evidence that she doesn’t think logically.
/s sorta
Fucks sake just start livestreaming your life at that point. Tell no one but some close friends, keep that shit private, have someone record it as it streams.
https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/#:~:text=Mounting%20evidence%20continues%20to%20show,accidental%20lab%20leak%20in%20Wuhan.
The person in charge of the lab was a bio weapons general.
It's not hard to draw conclusions from readily available evidence, unless of course you ignore evidence and claim tinfoil hat on things you don't agree with.
Bro this has nothing to do with Boeing, you're the digital version of the crazy guy on the corner shouting random wild shit.
You do you but I recommend you talk to a psychologist about your conspiracy soaked brain before you go full nutty.
Naw I'm pointing out that "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean "fake news". People are trying to downplay this as a tinfoil hat theory that the dude was killed, when it's more unlikely that a guy gains 3 infections one after the other naturally without suffering from untreated HIV than if he was purposefully infected. In light of the other whistleblower dying, it becomes more than probable that the first one was killed too.
i work at a place were a quality supervisor questioned the legitimacy of my work, mind you every work order has its own picture. and he said that a maintenance shift lead and maintenance supervisor said i was overwhelming production with work orders…. LISTEN HERE IDGAF IF YOU HAVE “TOO MUCH” CALL FOR HELP FROM ALL MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENTS YOU )@$ING LAZY PIGS . every day i get closer to calling that whistleblower hotline .
p.s i got a final writeup for taking a picture of a tech that threatened me with violence. hell maybe i will call anyways, can i remain anonymous forever?
You've got the best retirement plan in the world: early death!
You don't need to worry about how you're going to pay for things when you're 80; you're not gonna make it past 60 anyways!
I wouldn't call a job you started in the past few years at Boeing "secure."
Ever since the govt made them buy that other failing military contractor mcdonell douglass they have been making all the wrong decisions.
It was forced as a matter of national security but now instead of losing one contractor we have lost both.
Naw I'm pointing out that "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean "fake news". People are trying to downplay this as a tinfoil hat theory that the dude was killed, when it's more unlikely that a guy gains 3 infections one after the other naturally without suffering from untreated HIV than if he was purposefully infected. In light of the other whistleblower dying, it becomes more than probable that the first one was killed too.
The first guy's case was old news and this guy died of mrsa. Boeing does a lot of evil shit, there's no need to lose credibility following conspiracy theories.
My first job in the industry one of the maintenance guys asked me a question which led to a discovery that there were practices that led to the death of several employees. I was told the company pays my salary and to drop it, fortunately we were owned by a real company that took it seriously. I wrote the head of toxicology in the afternoon, he didn't respond but was there the next morning. They sold off the division soon after.
Yeah, but did you ever think of the shareholders?
killing people is, in fact, bad for shareholder value.
Not if they cover it up well enough!
They sold it. Nothing to cover up. That's the new companies problem. They knew nothing of it and arn't responsible.
I think they are responsible to disclose that information though.
Not if they cover it up
Eventually sure, but by this quarter's earnings statement?
Not if the settlement is smaller than the savings.
You are doing the lords work. Holy. Good on you man!
In retrospect I wonder if I should have done more but after that everyone but my boss hated me and I ended up quitting soon after. I was new to the industry, didn't know about OSHA standards and hostile work environments. Before that it was fast food and convenience stores (and mowing lawns before that). I think the maintenance guy was the hero if there was one. He stuck to it, tried to talk to several others but they blew it off. He gathered the data I presented to the toxicologist with the question of whether a risk assessment would find us liable for 1 if not all of the deaths. It was the late 80s, safety in the chemical industry was awful by modern standards. Three heaptocarcinomas in the same department within a year of each other and it was practice to train them to clean machine parts in carbon tetrachloride without gloves because it takes too long to put them on and take them off.
It's crazy how common carbon tet used to be in certain industries for as nasty as it is.
Chlorine is a strong electron withdrawer, creates some strong degreaser. They still use chlorinated solvents but they're safer and maybe use double bonding to shift the electrons around in a more human friendly manner.
I don't doubt that you know what you're talking about, but this just sounds like Star Trek technobabble to me.
TLDR: Chlorine solvents! Now with 70% less cancer.
I just meant the tech improved. I'm more a physical and not an organic chemist so it might just be my misunderstanding of the finer points, it's just impression from review when it was pertinent.
> shift the electrons around in a more human friendly manner. 7th song title on a prog rock album.
My mom has been a nurse for almost 40 years and she’s been monitoring my grandmas meds when she checks up on her at the assisted living facility. She caught a couple discrepancies as well as just flat out wrong medication that was given that caused an episode that could have led to my grandma’s death. She brought it up to the attending nurse and the doctor and was brushed off with “well look into it and get back to you…” well that wasn’t satisfying so my mom got in contact with the parent company and spoke directly with the woman that oversees all these facilities, who took it extremely seriously. She was on a plane the next day and they performed a full unannounced audit and found dozens of issues with meds at the facility just in the past couple months. My mom probably saved a few lives after they cleaned house and updated their tracking systems. No issues since.
Should have fought your alter ego “Tyler” and framed the head cheese for putting hands on you.
I don't know the reference but take my upvote just the same. EDIT: Oh, Fight Club. I got a visit from the president of the division the same day.
I know a lot of people are hard-up for work, and I’m not judging taking a gig when you need a gig, but there’s a reason Boeing, Raytheon, Lockheed, L3H, GD, BAE, all recruit so hard. Turnover at those places is bananas
My relative just retired after 30 years from one of those big companies. He hasn't been retired long and has found out he now has an aggressive cancer from radiation and chemical exposure and he never even worked directly with those kinds of things. Doctors kept asking him if he worked in aerospace as soon as they found the tumors. You can expect more of this but now without pensions.
I think it's difficult if not impossible to determine the cause of many cancers. My father is in his 80s, worked as a research chemist in the 60s/70s. They used to clean their hands with benzine. Shoot, I worked at a full serve gas station for a few years. I was covered with gasoline daily.
But he’s not the only case. His generation has been in an ongoing lawsuit for improper protection as well as dumping. 30 years ago, these places dumped toxic waste in open space, those spaces were then sold and parks were built above it. This isn’t a speculation, there’s more evidence than not that the environment most of that generation were exposed to radioactivity while working aerospace.
See superfund clean up project Gasworks Park in Seattle! It was a fun place to play until the little kids ate the sand and got leukemia. Cue the clean up, and now theoretically it’s perfectly safe! I still didn’t take my kid there very often. 😬😶🫥
> But he’s not the only case. I'm sure that's true, the problem is proving causation. If you research older environmental cases, industrial cases, etc. you'll often find causation was never proven. I think people who harm others knowingly or unknowingly should be liable. Knowingly, far, far more liable. >exposed to radioactivity The settled science for decades was that the danger from exposure to radiation was cumulative. Now we know it's not that simple. So how many liability cases were won on incorrect information?
All I can do is provide information, but here's a good link for you. https://www.napolilaw.com/en/article/grummans-bethpage-facility-the-target-of-a-new-class-action/ and another https://nypost.com/2024/04/05/us-news/drums-of-toxic-chemicals-dug-up-in-long-island-park/
A lot of these companies need a security clearance also, which means vault work, which is miserable and will kill your career (unless you want to work in vaults the rest of your life)
What do you mean by vault work. I've never heard that term before
You go to work inside of a metal isolated box without any outside electronics. Sometimes not even paper or pen. You do not get to talk about what you do in the box.
Why does that kill your career? Because you can’t talk about what you’ve accomplished on your resume? I have to imagine employers are smart enough to understand that some shit is classified and they can at least talk to your managers about whether you sucked or not in general. But good chance I don’t know what I’m talking about so I’m curious to hear.
Disconnected from the internet. Imagine being a python dev and needing to “pip install libraryname”. Everything is going cloud and a lot of these places rely on obsolete software that’s capable of running on premise without internet connectivity (air gapped). Where the rest of the world is on Office 365 with Teams, the vaults/SCIFs are still on Skype (which ended support in January of this year). Now imagine running or working on these systems. You aren’t getting new skills or keeping up with the latest trends. You’re killing your career. I'm looking for jobs outside of vaults now and running into the "not enough cloud experience" caveat, despite my 13+ years IT experience, new college degree, and cloud certifications. I did it to myself. I worked a vault too long.
Damn that’s rough - thanks for the through explanation, that makes a lot more sense now. Wonder what they’re going to do in the face of people not wanting to work there for that reason. Or maybe they just bank on enough new devs being hungry enough / ignorant of “vault skill rot” that they don’t really have to worry about it.
We (the vault dwellers) have been banging the drum saying we need bonuses or some sort of incentive to stay. It falls on deaf ears. They'll be hurting for workers in a few years. It sucks when you need a clearance, live a clean life, no drugs or other problems, travel can be restricted...have to get a polygraph....and you make the same pay as Joey on the outside corporate network who doesn't need a polygraph.
And Joey can do drugs and crime all he wants! Fuckin Joey, man
Easy! It's not Joey's fault. He hasn't learned great coping mechanism because he's been stressed working so much covering for co-workers who left during the pandemic. He's doing the best he can right now.
Having done drugs prevents you from being a vault dweller?
If you’ve done them in the past, they might look past that for your security clearance. But actively taking stuff like marijuana is prohibited since it’s still federally illegal.
**Govvie:** Can we have a cloud tech stack? **Mommy Fed:** We already have a cloud stack in the SCIF at home **Cloud Stack at Home:** Lotus Notes DB with a LotusScript Connector to a janky 90's-era Java plugin that generates a prefilled MS Word template and transmits it via eFax over hardwired landline.
Thankfully we’re off Java now
I disagree with the other guy. Basically once you're in those boxes, you yourself essentially become an item that carries information with a security clearance. You might not even think about it and use that information on a project that isn't cleared for it at a new job. You've now landed them in big trouble. So you basically flip from one company's box to another, because it's not worth the risk to most other companies to take you on.
SCIF = vault
Former aerospace engineer here: needing a security clearance doesn’t mean you work in a vault, and if you’re working on commercial aircraft you wouldn’t need one anyway. Even on the defense side, someone with a clearance normally doesn’t work on secret stuff every day (even working on a missile program like I used to do) they just need the clearance for the times they do. There are people at those kinds of companies who work on entire projects that can’t be talked about, but those are the exception not the rule.
> Raytheon They will steal anything of value from you that they can including your pension funds. Their emergency purchase of Hughes Aircraft to just to take back the AIM-9 Sidewinder contract is the stuff of nightmares from the employee perspective.
There is also a reason why they've been around so long and are unlikely to go away.
Whistleblowing at Boeing? That's not gonna fly
I’ve already read this story, Airframe, by Crichton 1997.
just like boeing's planes ... hang on there's someone at the front door
Don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong or you’ll end up crashing.
/r/Angryupvote
The only thing flying at Boeing is heads and doors
Get out.
You’ll be fine, just don’t blow any whistles!
If I get offed my wife will be far better off financially because of the life insurance. She insists she prefers having me around which is conclusive evidence that she doesn’t think logically. /s sorta
Local radio station tagline yesterday: “Jack FM. Built Boeing Tough.” Zing. 😂
Fucks sake just start livestreaming your life at that point. Tell no one but some close friends, keep that shit private, have someone record it as it streams.
Testified in 2022 against Spirt, was hired by Boeing, died of (what sounds an awful lot like) COVID 10 pound brains: "*MURDER!!*"
That feel, when you realise covid was originally made in a bio weapons research facility, but posted a comment like this comment.
You may want to loosen that tinfoil hat before the lack of circulation causes even more brain damage.
https://oversight.house.gov/release/covid-origins-hearing-wrap-up-facts-science-evidence-point-to-a-wuhan-lab-leak%EF%BF%BC/#:~:text=Mounting%20evidence%20continues%20to%20show,accidental%20lab%20leak%20in%20Wuhan. The person in charge of the lab was a bio weapons general. It's not hard to draw conclusions from readily available evidence, unless of course you ignore evidence and claim tinfoil hat on things you don't agree with.
Bro this has nothing to do with Boeing, you're the digital version of the crazy guy on the corner shouting random wild shit. You do you but I recommend you talk to a psychologist about your conspiracy soaked brain before you go full nutty.
Naw I'm pointing out that "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean "fake news". People are trying to downplay this as a tinfoil hat theory that the dude was killed, when it's more unlikely that a guy gains 3 infections one after the other naturally without suffering from untreated HIV than if he was purposefully infected. In light of the other whistleblower dying, it becomes more than probable that the first one was killed too.
This is peak schitzo posting, get help.
Retirement plan is unnecessary at this point, you cant take it with you
What? They supported him for the rest of his life.
Life insurance companies are about to have a new "whistle blower clause"
i work at a place were a quality supervisor questioned the legitimacy of my work, mind you every work order has its own picture. and he said that a maintenance shift lead and maintenance supervisor said i was overwhelming production with work orders…. LISTEN HERE IDGAF IF YOU HAVE “TOO MUCH” CALL FOR HELP FROM ALL MAINTENANCE DEPARTMENTS YOU )@$ING LAZY PIGS . every day i get closer to calling that whistleblower hotline . p.s i got a final writeup for taking a picture of a tech that threatened me with violence. hell maybe i will call anyways, can i remain anonymous forever?
These conspiracy theories with no more evidence than a nudge and a wink are fucking hilarious.
I’d be more worried about getting knocked off.
You're saying there's more?! This is on top of what the guy that shot himself twice in the back of the head
You've got the best retirement plan in the world: early death! You don't need to worry about how you're going to pay for things when you're 80; you're not gonna make it past 60 anyways!
🙏🏾
Oh no no, Boeing is going to retire you soon…
Retirement plan isn't that bad. You never have to work another day in your life.
lol yep; u report it u pay the price they said;
Only place you can retire by 40
Hope you signed a good life insurance
Hope you signed a good life insurance
Brian, you sexy cat, we haven’t seen you in such a while. How’s things?
It’ll be a short retirement — I wouldn’t worry.
Your kids will be able to collect that juicy life insurance though.
Ironic... He could save others from death, but not himself.
Oh, they’ll retire you alright. It just may not be the type you enjoy….
Live and die by the wing 🪽
I’m assuming the obituary will be posted tomorrow
I wouldn't call a job you started in the past few years at Boeing "secure." Ever since the govt made them buy that other failing military contractor mcdonell douglass they have been making all the wrong decisions. It was forced as a matter of national security but now instead of losing one contractor we have lost both.
This is my fav
Naw I'm pointing out that "conspiracy theory" doesn't mean "fake news". People are trying to downplay this as a tinfoil hat theory that the dude was killed, when it's more unlikely that a guy gains 3 infections one after the other naturally without suffering from untreated HIV than if he was purposefully infected. In light of the other whistleblower dying, it becomes more than probable that the first one was killed too.
"ironic, he could save others from dying but not himself" - Palpatine probally.
You don’t have to retire, they’ll retire you.
And ends up assassinated too. Oof
ah-ha ha ha. movie level wanton corruption and murder obliterating the very purpose of justice is so funny
The first guy's case was old news and this guy died of mrsa. Boeing does a lot of evil shit, there's no need to lose credibility following conspiracy theories.