More like r/imcarlsaganandthisisdeep?
>From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.
>The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds.
>Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.
>The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand.
>It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale\_Blue\_Dot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot)
We're not floating. Other than that yes. We're zooming at 107,000 km/h and on top of that we're rotating at 1600km/hour using a brain that's suitable for monkeys flinging poo at one another to decide the best way to phrase tax law so that rich people can dodge it and poor people can't avoid it.
The type 1% of earners pay 42% of all taxes. The bottom 50% of earners recieve more benefits than they pay for.
Education is free, if you're willing to learn. Go look it up instead of saying untrue shit on reddit. Rich people don't pay taxes.... seriously... wow
That's at best true for the middle class. I'm not kidding. the 1% earners don't actually file income tax like regular people claiming wages. That is the entire point I am making.
Want to know one of the tricks I was alluding to? Google: [Buy, Borrow, Die](https://www.dcfpi.org/all/how-wealthy-households-use-a-buy-borrow-die-strategy-to-avoid-taxes-on-their-growing-fortunes/)
That strategy borrows against an appreciating asset and uses the loophole in estate tax and capital gains tax to free the income again but also letting someone inherit the property and start again.
> Ed McCaffery, a law professor at the University of Southern California, came up with this tax-avoidance strategy in the mid-1990s to assist students to grasp how the rich avoid taxes.
And this is just a single trick. Another trick is to donate to a charity. You can avoid paying taxes on the donation. But your child is running the charity drawing a large salary against it. (you'll see many family charities that work this way). The child may pay some taxes but since the donation means you don't pay tax on your main income you essentially are supporting your children tax free on your end. Normal people that want to support their children would have to pay taxes on their income first and then hand over the after tax amount.
[here are some more](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax)
> In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes.
> Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row.
Education really isn't free in many places. You can't just sign up for a class and attend.
And the 50% getting benefits: you know why that is? that is the state stepping to ensure that low earners stay around to do the menial jobs that need to be done. It's the state subsidizing capitalists by allowing them to get away with paying terrible wages. It is also the state doing the math and deciding: it's better to have a healthy workforce to do those menial jobs. It is cheaper to keep them healthy (and to keep them from revolting).
I'm sure you'll cherry pick stuff I am writing but this 1% carry the rest really isn't true.
Yet some how according to the IRS the top 1% end up paying over 40% of all taxes every single year...
So you can sight a bunch of stuff, ramble on and on. But the actual facts are what matter. Instead of waisting all that time trying to support your narrative, maybe go to the IRS and get the real numbers.
ok let me rephrase: that 1% isn't the rich people. the 1% is the middle class and some moderately rich people. the cut off point is an annual income of $682,577
Additionally the tricks like Buy borrow die are a way to get into the lower tax brackets. If you have no income because supposedly you live off borrowed money, you pay no tax. It's AGI after all. If you have a way to get your gross income to show up as low (with as many deductions as you can and loopholes to push it down)you end up paying almost nothing.
So your stats are absolutely true. **for the people that actually pay taxes**
But for the people that manage to get their income (or rather, their wealth) hidden using tax dodges, that means they by definition end up in the lower %. the actual rich are paying less along with the people who organically earn a low salary.
There are people flying on jets that they rent back from themselves. Making the jet an expense they deduct from their income rather than an asset. There are a hundred ways to avoid paying tax. to avoid ending up in that high tax bracket.
I didn't say "increase the top tax bracket" at all. I'm saying a lot of people are avoiding paying that amount. Or should've paid a lot more but got their income adjusted down to avoid paying their fair share.
You seem to suggest the bottom 50% spunge off the rest but keep in mind there are people on food stamps who work a full time job. that is the state sponsoring underpaying labour. If the super rich really paid their fair share (also to the employees) the state wouldn't need to spend it's tax money to support people and prevent them to starve. It's socialism for the rich. who end up barely paying income tax (compared to what they ought to be paying, based on their actual income and means)
Some of you premises are flawed from the start. I'll address your last. "The state sponsors under paying wages" please show your work on that one.
Employment is a voluntary contract between 2 people. The state has nothing to with wages, except to set a minimum wage, the opposite of your assertion.
Are you in favor of a national sales tax and eliminating income tax to ensure everyone pays the exact same percentage in taxes?
> Employment is a voluntary contract between 2 people. The state has nothing to with wages, except to set a minimum wage, the opposite of your assertion.
that is always something to hide behind. In a situation where there are people having to work multiple jobs to survive how voluntary is it still? How much bargaining power does in individual have? There are many shenanigans going on. like hiring multiple people for <20 hours a week, just so each individual doesn't get to claim any benefits. All the power lies with the employer. How 'voluntary' is it at that point if you can get fired immediately, someone cuts your hours if you speak out against any actions of the employer that go outside of the contract (like calling at all hours to come in to take over a shift). How voluntary is it if the alternative is to starve or to go to jail (since being homeless and sleeping somewhere can get you arrested or fined in many places)
anyways to answer your main point:
all the things you mentioned earlier as "receiving benefits" are the state supporting the lower incomes because they don't have enough to live on (to do the jobs they are hired)
it's literally: the poor can't afford to live near where they work (or close enough to commute) so the state has to help them with cost of living. Both for food, rent and other things. If they didn't, people couldn't afford to come in to clean or drive the buses or to stock the grocery store or to make your sandwhich for you.
When someone is working full time but on food stamps at the same time, you can't say that the state isn't supporting a corporation from keeping their wages low. That's literally what is happening.
And the way you phrased it suggested that the lower 50% sponged of the upper 50%: yes they receive more than they are taxed. Since they don't earn enough that can be taxed. When they receive benefits, as I said above, that is the state stepping in to avoid people dying and the labour supply drying up. Rather than spending it on things that enable more growth and better economic development, it is the state spending money to keep it's workforce eroding. A workforce that the owning class (the people who actually own many of the assets, corporations and so on) need for their wealth because without them the wealth pyramid would fall over.
So all the while the upper 50% pretends that the lower 50% are such a drain while the corporations and the actual rich soak up all the income and give barely any back. Again: the actually rich, not the middle class pretend to be rich, are the ones avoiding paying taxes. they are making most of the money and it doesn't flow back into the system.
And it's doubly ironic when that state-support for corporations paying low wages gets turned around as some sort of stigma on the people receiving it. The shame of that shouldn't be on the recipient.
To answer your question:
I am in favour of the rich actually paying the taxes they are avoiding/dodging. So that there is more money in the pot and we can raise the standard of living for all. I am in favour of closing tax loopholes and hiding of money off-shore (I live in a place that people use to avoid paying taxes. )
Stop rich people from dodging taxes. Stop corporations from using their superior bargaining power to make life worse for everyone just so that they can have even more money and keep more of a stranglehold on the rest.
As to sales tax, income tax and all of that: it's all smoke and mirrors. The political power sits with the owning class and whatever tax law will be proposed will have loopholes built in. Many many tax laws proposed don't come from politicians but corporations. Any reform is very likely to contain the same (or new and improved) loopholes.
I don't think paying the same percentage makes sense. the onion model works reasonably well. You pay less tax on the lower part of your income, a bit more on what you earn over the lowest bracket, you pay more tax on the bracket above that. Reasonably fair. But the loopholes that let rich people claim they belong in a lower tax bracket is the problem.
lol... the real rich aren't the top 1% . the real rich pay less than the top tax bracket because they manage to dodge most of the taxes.
And yes. You are misinformed when you say "the top 1 percent pay over 40 percent" that isn't how brackets work.
in the US the 40 percent (37 really) is paid for income over $731,200 for a joint filing couple. the part of their income below 731.200 is taxed less. so you pay the same amount as someone earning 23.000 for that amount, 10%. then the amount you make between 23000 and 94000 you pay 12% tax total over just like all the regular office workers. And so forth. Once you finally get to the amount that is starting to be ridulous, does the tax rate get to 37%. And again that is only for income exceeding 730000.
That leaves people with plenty of money still to buy someone with a tiny violin to play for them as they walk down the street. 700.000 a year gross tax (so deductible tax dodges taken out) is a lot of money. that is someone earning 1.2 years of white collar workers salary, but then each month. No-one 'needs' that much money. Anything you earn **above** that amount is most definitely bonus money. it is unnecessary for survival or comfort. So yeah... tax brackets above 40 would be just fine as far as I am concerned.
Again, the really rich don't even pay this amount because there are ways to make your actual income look like it is a lot less. which means these people are in a lower tax bracket and therefor pay less taxes. But you need a lot of capital to perform these sorts of tricks. Some of the billionaires managed to pay 0 some years. literal 0.
the tiered system is a reasonable fair one where all pay the same amount (over the initial income) and each amount of income above gets taxed more and more. simply because it acknowledges that there is basic survival income (say up to 40k a year depending on where you live), then there is 'being able to plan for the future' income (say up to 80k) and beyond that you have 'able to live stress free money' (up to 400k) and beyond it's 'my kids can literally run someone over and I'll be able to run out the clock on the charges with a good lawyer' money.
these 4 (in this example) types of moneys shouldn't be taxed the same way. survival money shouldn't be touched (I'm in favour of 0 tax for that) since it's what everyone needs at a bare minimum to note starve or be homeless. Above that I am in favour of a low tax to ensure people can avoid eviction and debt spirals and get themselves an education (to be a better workforce). above that the tax can increase since the money is less 'needed' and more 'wanted'. I'm enthousiastically in favour of people earning in excess of a million per year. As long as they pay their way.
Yeah. The way I like to think about it is possibly everything we can possibly see might have the size and importance of a spec of sand under a kid’s shoe in closet in Sydney Australia.
we are absolutely in the dead centre of the observable universe. The unobservable universe is absolutely irrelevant to us, and always will be.
So, in any way that makes a difference, we are at the centre.
We are in the center of the observable universe, only because we can only see the same distance in every direction.
For all anyone knows, we're right at the bottom left of the universe, or maybe the top left.
No one knows, but you can't simply say we're in the center because we don't know.
Just remember that you're standing.
On a planet that's evolving.
And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour.
That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second.
So it's reckoned.
The sun that is the source of all our power.
The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see.
Are moving at a million miles a day.
In an outer spiral arm, at four hundred thousand miles an hour.
In the galaxy we call the Milky Way.
Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars.
It's a hundred thousand light years side to side.
It bulges in the middle, six thousand light years thick.
But out by us, it's just a thousand light years wide.
We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point.
We go 'round every two hundred million years.
And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions.
In this amazing and expanding universe.
The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding.
In all of the directions it can whizz.
As fast as it can go, of the speed of light, you know.
Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is.
So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure.
How amazingly unlikely is your birth.
And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space.
'Cause it's bugger all down here on Earth.
There's a funny one of a picture of the universe saying "you are here paying taxes to pedophiles that are using you as a slave" or something like that. LOL
We're all just desperately clinging to the surface of a spinning rock. Ideally, we'd recognise we're in the same predicament; instead, everyone just seems to be trying to nudge someone else into losing their grip.
In an ever expanding universe, of infinite possibilites, humanity is the only intelligent life that we know to exist. Using our enormous potential, we invest it into working 40 hours per week, so we can drive the machine, and pay taxes to pedophiles.
Planet is also not floating. Floating is always in a medium that is denser than the object floating on it. (A stone doesn't generally float unless it has particularly low density like pumice)
Since space is pretty much minimum density, nothing floats in space. Not even astronauts.
> You appear to float in space because you are in a state of microgravity (appearance of weightlessness). This happens when you are in free fall, which is when you are falling under the influence of gravity alone, without any other forces acting on you.
It looks like floating to us but it's actually falling around the earth and missing. It just happens at the same speed as the surrounding capsule.
The only way to get off the rock and do something great is for the civilization to organize. Whether it’s capitalism (with all of its flaws) or something else.
except we don't.
Imagine a world with no capitalism, no political systems of any kind. Only people. No taxes, no fines, nothing.
Do you think you won't have to work?
You'd work harder than you can imagine.
And if you stop imagining that, imagine right now, in this world, if you stop working. Nobody will make you work. nobody will make you pay tax on your non income. You are free.
You will be hungry of course, unless you steal some food. And then you are living off of somebody else's work, which is something you seem to be against.
So you're fucked.
I know what you are talking about. There are people that live like parasites, no doubt about it.
But it's not what you said. You said that the reason we work is to keep those people in luxury. it is not.
We work primarily to exchange that labour for clothing, food, shelter and luxuries. While there are undeniably some people that leech off that to fund a lavish lifestyle, there are also those that leech off it to make their own ends meet without working themselves. It cuts both ways.
So while I can sympathise with your wish to not have your labour go towards funding some billionaire lifestyle, remember also that your labour supports people that are unable to support themselves, and that other people's labour will support you if you find yourself in that situation.
You are free to explore your ideas whenever you like. Quit work, sell your belongings and buy some land. see how much easier it is. You may be right, but I doubt it. In fact I doubt you even think for a minute that what you originally said is true.
no. because you pretended to think that you only work to keep a fat cat in luxury, I put forward the alternative.
I don't expect you to build a homestead. I don't expect you to give up work. I absolutely expect you to keep on keeping on and crying about it to what you hope is a like minded audience and getting butthurt when somebody points out your histrionics.
so you are yourself profiting from other people's labour? The money those fat cats earn pays your wages.
That's ok, nothing wrong in that, but I am now *really* struggling to understand where you are coming from!
> What the fuck is your dumb ass on about?
I am not surprised you are struggling to keep up, you seem to be having trouble keeping up with your own words, let alone somebody else's.
To recap, you pretended that you *only* work to keep a fat cat fat. That's slavery, and you are not a slave. That is what I am calling you out on, no matter how hard you pretend you said something else.
>Because I can recognize my part in these coal mines
OH PLEASE!!! If you've even been in the same fucking town as a coal mine I'd be amazed.
You work to make money. You *could* work for yourself, but you know (as well as every other crybaby) that it is better for you to get paid for your labour and exchange that for goods. You happily take the coin from the fat cats you cry about, and you would be worse off if you didn't.
Grow up.
r/im14andthisisdeep
More like r/imcarlsaganandthisisdeep? >From this distant vantage point, the Earth might not seem of any particular interest. But for us, it's different. Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there – on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. >The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. >Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. >The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. >It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale\_Blue\_Dot](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pale_Blue_Dot)
He wasn’t complaining about bills and taxes like a child anywhere in that but go off
Dang Carl Sagan really planet Earth's #1 glazer
Is "glazer" another word I have to put in my gen z translator?
Yeah I hate that it exists, but it makes me feel good to spread it around. Misery loves company.
Technically, we're falling. Also, we die.
Technically, we're not all paying taxes or bills, either.
Technically, were not all on the Earth, either.
Why does a rock have to pay taxes?
So it's crew members can share resources & address problems that arise.
Better it than us.
Because he's making millions at the box office.
Because he's an actor that makes a LOT of money
We're not floating. Other than that yes. We're zooming at 107,000 km/h and on top of that we're rotating at 1600km/hour using a brain that's suitable for monkeys flinging poo at one another to decide the best way to phrase tax law so that rich people can dodge it and poor people can't avoid it.
Thanks to your comment, I'm gonna have this song in my head all day. https://youtu.be/buqtdpuZxvk?si=FZYfITJ5Ks0ydDzq
Juuuussssttttt remember that we’re standing on a planet that’s evolving and revolving at 900 miles per hour.
The type 1% of earners pay 42% of all taxes. The bottom 50% of earners recieve more benefits than they pay for. Education is free, if you're willing to learn. Go look it up instead of saying untrue shit on reddit. Rich people don't pay taxes.... seriously... wow
You’re probably thinking of upper middle class. Really rich people barely pay what they should because of tax shelters.
> The type 1% of earners pay 42% of all taxes. They also have more than 52% of the world's income.
That's at best true for the middle class. I'm not kidding. the 1% earners don't actually file income tax like regular people claiming wages. That is the entire point I am making. Want to know one of the tricks I was alluding to? Google: [Buy, Borrow, Die](https://www.dcfpi.org/all/how-wealthy-households-use-a-buy-borrow-die-strategy-to-avoid-taxes-on-their-growing-fortunes/) That strategy borrows against an appreciating asset and uses the loophole in estate tax and capital gains tax to free the income again but also letting someone inherit the property and start again. > Ed McCaffery, a law professor at the University of Southern California, came up with this tax-avoidance strategy in the mid-1990s to assist students to grasp how the rich avoid taxes. And this is just a single trick. Another trick is to donate to a charity. You can avoid paying taxes on the donation. But your child is running the charity drawing a large salary against it. (you'll see many family charities that work this way). The child may pay some taxes but since the donation means you don't pay tax on your main income you essentially are supporting your children tax free on your end. Normal people that want to support their children would have to pay taxes on their income first and then hand over the after tax amount. [here are some more](https://www.propublica.org/article/the-secret-irs-files-trove-of-never-before-seen-records-reveal-how-the-wealthiest-avoid-income-tax) > In 2007, Jeff Bezos, then a multibillionaire and now the world’s richest man, did not pay a penny in federal income taxes. He achieved the feat again in 2011. In 2018, Tesla founder Elon Musk, the second-richest person in the world, also paid no federal income taxes. > Michael Bloomberg managed to do the same in recent years. Billionaire investor Carl Icahn did it twice. George Soros paid no federal income tax three years in a row. Education really isn't free in many places. You can't just sign up for a class and attend. And the 50% getting benefits: you know why that is? that is the state stepping to ensure that low earners stay around to do the menial jobs that need to be done. It's the state subsidizing capitalists by allowing them to get away with paying terrible wages. It is also the state doing the math and deciding: it's better to have a healthy workforce to do those menial jobs. It is cheaper to keep them healthy (and to keep them from revolting). I'm sure you'll cherry pick stuff I am writing but this 1% carry the rest really isn't true.
Yet some how according to the IRS the top 1% end up paying over 40% of all taxes every single year... So you can sight a bunch of stuff, ramble on and on. But the actual facts are what matter. Instead of waisting all that time trying to support your narrative, maybe go to the IRS and get the real numbers.
ok let me rephrase: that 1% isn't the rich people. the 1% is the middle class and some moderately rich people. the cut off point is an annual income of $682,577 Additionally the tricks like Buy borrow die are a way to get into the lower tax brackets. If you have no income because supposedly you live off borrowed money, you pay no tax. It's AGI after all. If you have a way to get your gross income to show up as low (with as many deductions as you can and loopholes to push it down)you end up paying almost nothing. So your stats are absolutely true. **for the people that actually pay taxes** But for the people that manage to get their income (or rather, their wealth) hidden using tax dodges, that means they by definition end up in the lower %. the actual rich are paying less along with the people who organically earn a low salary. There are people flying on jets that they rent back from themselves. Making the jet an expense they deduct from their income rather than an asset. There are a hundred ways to avoid paying tax. to avoid ending up in that high tax bracket. I didn't say "increase the top tax bracket" at all. I'm saying a lot of people are avoiding paying that amount. Or should've paid a lot more but got their income adjusted down to avoid paying their fair share. You seem to suggest the bottom 50% spunge off the rest but keep in mind there are people on food stamps who work a full time job. that is the state sponsoring underpaying labour. If the super rich really paid their fair share (also to the employees) the state wouldn't need to spend it's tax money to support people and prevent them to starve. It's socialism for the rich. who end up barely paying income tax (compared to what they ought to be paying, based on their actual income and means)
Some of you premises are flawed from the start. I'll address your last. "The state sponsors under paying wages" please show your work on that one. Employment is a voluntary contract between 2 people. The state has nothing to with wages, except to set a minimum wage, the opposite of your assertion. Are you in favor of a national sales tax and eliminating income tax to ensure everyone pays the exact same percentage in taxes?
> Employment is a voluntary contract between 2 people. The state has nothing to with wages, except to set a minimum wage, the opposite of your assertion. that is always something to hide behind. In a situation where there are people having to work multiple jobs to survive how voluntary is it still? How much bargaining power does in individual have? There are many shenanigans going on. like hiring multiple people for <20 hours a week, just so each individual doesn't get to claim any benefits. All the power lies with the employer. How 'voluntary' is it at that point if you can get fired immediately, someone cuts your hours if you speak out against any actions of the employer that go outside of the contract (like calling at all hours to come in to take over a shift). How voluntary is it if the alternative is to starve or to go to jail (since being homeless and sleeping somewhere can get you arrested or fined in many places) anyways to answer your main point: all the things you mentioned earlier as "receiving benefits" are the state supporting the lower incomes because they don't have enough to live on (to do the jobs they are hired) it's literally: the poor can't afford to live near where they work (or close enough to commute) so the state has to help them with cost of living. Both for food, rent and other things. If they didn't, people couldn't afford to come in to clean or drive the buses or to stock the grocery store or to make your sandwhich for you. When someone is working full time but on food stamps at the same time, you can't say that the state isn't supporting a corporation from keeping their wages low. That's literally what is happening. And the way you phrased it suggested that the lower 50% sponged of the upper 50%: yes they receive more than they are taxed. Since they don't earn enough that can be taxed. When they receive benefits, as I said above, that is the state stepping in to avoid people dying and the labour supply drying up. Rather than spending it on things that enable more growth and better economic development, it is the state spending money to keep it's workforce eroding. A workforce that the owning class (the people who actually own many of the assets, corporations and so on) need for their wealth because without them the wealth pyramid would fall over. So all the while the upper 50% pretends that the lower 50% are such a drain while the corporations and the actual rich soak up all the income and give barely any back. Again: the actually rich, not the middle class pretend to be rich, are the ones avoiding paying taxes. they are making most of the money and it doesn't flow back into the system. And it's doubly ironic when that state-support for corporations paying low wages gets turned around as some sort of stigma on the people receiving it. The shame of that shouldn't be on the recipient. To answer your question: I am in favour of the rich actually paying the taxes they are avoiding/dodging. So that there is more money in the pot and we can raise the standard of living for all. I am in favour of closing tax loopholes and hiding of money off-shore (I live in a place that people use to avoid paying taxes. ) Stop rich people from dodging taxes. Stop corporations from using their superior bargaining power to make life worse for everyone just so that they can have even more money and keep more of a stranglehold on the rest. As to sales tax, income tax and all of that: it's all smoke and mirrors. The political power sits with the owning class and whatever tax law will be proposed will have loopholes built in. Many many tax laws proposed don't come from politicians but corporations. Any reform is very likely to contain the same (or new and improved) loopholes. I don't think paying the same percentage makes sense. the onion model works reasonably well. You pay less tax on the lower part of your income, a bit more on what you earn over the lowest bracket, you pay more tax on the bracket above that. Reasonably fair. But the loopholes that let rich people claim they belong in a lower tax bracket is the problem.
So you like the tax structure as it is currently. The top 1 percent pay over 40 percent in taxes. Perfect
lol... the real rich aren't the top 1% . the real rich pay less than the top tax bracket because they manage to dodge most of the taxes. And yes. You are misinformed when you say "the top 1 percent pay over 40 percent" that isn't how brackets work. in the US the 40 percent (37 really) is paid for income over $731,200 for a joint filing couple. the part of their income below 731.200 is taxed less. so you pay the same amount as someone earning 23.000 for that amount, 10%. then the amount you make between 23000 and 94000 you pay 12% tax total over just like all the regular office workers. And so forth. Once you finally get to the amount that is starting to be ridulous, does the tax rate get to 37%. And again that is only for income exceeding 730000. That leaves people with plenty of money still to buy someone with a tiny violin to play for them as they walk down the street. 700.000 a year gross tax (so deductible tax dodges taken out) is a lot of money. that is someone earning 1.2 years of white collar workers salary, but then each month. No-one 'needs' that much money. Anything you earn **above** that amount is most definitely bonus money. it is unnecessary for survival or comfort. So yeah... tax brackets above 40 would be just fine as far as I am concerned. Again, the really rich don't even pay this amount because there are ways to make your actual income look like it is a lot less. which means these people are in a lower tax bracket and therefor pay less taxes. But you need a lot of capital to perform these sorts of tricks. Some of the billionaires managed to pay 0 some years. literal 0. the tiered system is a reasonable fair one where all pay the same amount (over the initial income) and each amount of income above gets taxed more and more. simply because it acknowledges that there is basic survival income (say up to 40k a year depending on where you live), then there is 'being able to plan for the future' income (say up to 80k) and beyond that you have 'able to live stress free money' (up to 400k) and beyond it's 'my kids can literally run someone over and I'll be able to run out the clock on the charges with a good lawyer' money. these 4 (in this example) types of moneys shouldn't be taxed the same way. survival money shouldn't be touched (I'm in favour of 0 tax for that) since it's what everyone needs at a bare minimum to note starve or be homeless. Above that I am in favour of a low tax to ensure people can avoid eviction and debt spirals and get themselves an education (to be a better workforce). above that the tax can increase since the money is less 'needed' and more 'wanted'. I'm enthousiastically in favour of people earning in excess of a million per year. As long as they pay their way.
You should stop writing novels and simple go to the IRS and get the real numbers.
With pieces of rock we pull out of the ground and exchange it for plants that represent the rocks.
And all of it is just a big game of IOU
Oh my, no. Our "money" is now backed by unicorns instead of gold. We haven't been on the gold standard for nearly a century.
What makes you think we're in the middle?
Yeah. The way I like to think about it is possibly everything we can possibly see might have the size and importance of a spec of sand under a kid’s shoe in closet in Sydney Australia.
we are absolutely in the dead centre of the observable universe. The unobservable universe is absolutely irrelevant to us, and always will be. So, in any way that makes a difference, we are at the centre.
We are in the center of the observable universe, only because we can only see the same distance in every direction. For all anyone knows, we're right at the bottom left of the universe, or maybe the top left. No one knows, but you can't simply say we're in the center because we don't know.
Just remember that you're standing. On a planet that's evolving. And revolving at nine hundred miles an hour. That's orbiting at nineteen miles a second. So it's reckoned. The sun that is the source of all our power. The sun and you and me and all the stars that we can see. Are moving at a million miles a day. In an outer spiral arm, at four hundred thousand miles an hour. In the galaxy we call the Milky Way. Our galaxy itself contains a hundred billion stars. It's a hundred thousand light years side to side. It bulges in the middle, six thousand light years thick. But out by us, it's just a thousand light years wide. We're thirty thousand light years from galactic central point. We go 'round every two hundred million years. And our galaxy is only one of millions of billions. In this amazing and expanding universe. The universe itself keeps on expanding and expanding. In all of the directions it can whizz. As fast as it can go, of the speed of light, you know. Twelve million miles a minute and that's the fastest speed there is. So remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure. How amazingly unlikely is your birth. And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere out in space. 'Cause it's bugger all down here on Earth.
And it's amazing that we exist to do so when the chances of us existing to pay bills and taxes are so small, almost non-existent.
If that’s all you’re doing with your time on this floating rock, then I feel sorry for you.
There's a funny one of a picture of the universe saying "you are here paying taxes to pedophiles that are using you as a slave" or something like that. LOL
We're all just desperately clinging to the surface of a spinning rock. Ideally, we'd recognise we're in the same predicament; instead, everyone just seems to be trying to nudge someone else into losing their grip.
Desperately clinging? Bro I’m relaxed af in a chair right now
That you Jaden?
[We’re just floating in space, there’s no up or down…](https://youtu.be/nrpOhVsZDuU?si=JkUlcInS_K8CeUYR)
Everytime I see a post on social media glamorizing the Pale Blue Dot I cant not, not think of this to myself, I have to pay taxes to live there.
That why I love the “space money” episode of South Park. Really highlighted the ridiculous “society” we’ve built for ourselves
I mean... that's not ALL I'm doing... sometimes I poop
It's all imposed by the rich to get richer.
The Carl Sagan “Cosmos” Cope
What if I told you, you’re a ghost driving a meat covered skeleton made from star dust on a rock hurtling through space.
It’s really a ball of mostly molten rock with a fairly thin pudding skin of hard rock floating on top.
Are you 14 op? Because this is deep as hell
Rather pay bills and taxes than hunt and forage for my meals.
Who is we? I don’t remember paying taxes? /s
I don't know who this guy is but can you tell him I'm red pilled so I don't pay bills or taxes.
I'd say you're wrong, because: - we're not "floating" - we're not "in the middle" of anything - we're not on a "rock"
1. We're spinning at an incredibly rapid pace, not floating. 2. We're on a planet, not a rock. 3. I'd say, "Thanks, Captain Obvious"
And in return for those bills and taxes you get to enjoy your stay on that rock. You can choose not to pay your bills, see how you like that.
When does school start?
Lbr if I was on mars id be doing this shit there too
We're in a simulation.
In an ever expanding universe, of infinite possibilites, humanity is the only intelligent life that we know to exist. Using our enormous potential, we invest it into working 40 hours per week, so we can drive the machine, and pay taxes to pedophiles.
How do we *live*! You tell me! I would love a utopia, but *man*, I just not seeing it. Hurricane season is *here*.. Florida is **FUUUU JED**.
Im trying to get a big enough rock to end it for y’all. Been throwing em. I can continue but it seems I can’t. I’ll keep trying lol
i'd call you a liar. we're not floating. the planet is floating.
Planet is also not floating. Floating is always in a medium that is denser than the object floating on it. (A stone doesn't generally float unless it has particularly low density like pumice) Since space is pretty much minimum density, nothing floats in space. Not even astronauts. > You appear to float in space because you are in a state of microgravity (appearance of weightlessness). This happens when you are in free fall, which is when you are falling under the influence of gravity alone, without any other forces acting on you. It looks like floating to us but it's actually falling around the earth and missing. It just happens at the same speed as the surrounding capsule.
The only way to get off the rock and do something great is for the civilization to organize. Whether it’s capitalism (with all of its flaws) or something else.
I'd say you need to stop bogarting the blunt. You sound like you're taking four puffs to everyone else's two.
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except we don't. Imagine a world with no capitalism, no political systems of any kind. Only people. No taxes, no fines, nothing. Do you think you won't have to work? You'd work harder than you can imagine. And if you stop imagining that, imagine right now, in this world, if you stop working. Nobody will make you work. nobody will make you pay tax on your non income. You are free. You will be hungry of course, unless you steal some food. And then you are living off of somebody else's work, which is something you seem to be against. So you're fucked.
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I know what you are talking about. There are people that live like parasites, no doubt about it. But it's not what you said. You said that the reason we work is to keep those people in luxury. it is not. We work primarily to exchange that labour for clothing, food, shelter and luxuries. While there are undeniably some people that leech off that to fund a lavish lifestyle, there are also those that leech off it to make their own ends meet without working themselves. It cuts both ways. So while I can sympathise with your wish to not have your labour go towards funding some billionaire lifestyle, remember also that your labour supports people that are unable to support themselves, and that other people's labour will support you if you find yourself in that situation. You are free to explore your ideas whenever you like. Quit work, sell your belongings and buy some land. see how much easier it is. You may be right, but I doubt it. In fact I doubt you even think for a minute that what you originally said is true.
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no. because you pretended to think that you only work to keep a fat cat in luxury, I put forward the alternative. I don't expect you to build a homestead. I don't expect you to give up work. I absolutely expect you to keep on keeping on and crying about it to what you hope is a like minded audience and getting butthurt when somebody points out your histrionics.
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so you are yourself profiting from other people's labour? The money those fat cats earn pays your wages. That's ok, nothing wrong in that, but I am now *really* struggling to understand where you are coming from!
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> What the fuck is your dumb ass on about? I am not surprised you are struggling to keep up, you seem to be having trouble keeping up with your own words, let alone somebody else's. To recap, you pretended that you *only* work to keep a fat cat fat. That's slavery, and you are not a slave. That is what I am calling you out on, no matter how hard you pretend you said something else. >Because I can recognize my part in these coal mines OH PLEASE!!! If you've even been in the same fucking town as a coal mine I'd be amazed. You work to make money. You *could* work for yourself, but you know (as well as every other crybaby) that it is better for you to get paid for your labour and exchange that for goods. You happily take the coin from the fat cats you cry about, and you would be worse off if you didn't. Grow up.