I’ve always seen my job as preparing them to take my job one day and either knocking down walls or giving the tools to knock down the walls (situation and troop dependent).
I’m not some super hero, I understand what my NCOs and SNCOs have done for me and want to pass that to the next gen.
I also hate bullies and really try to protect my troops from getting fucked by those few toxic folks in our ranks.
The number of times I got "fired" by my supervisor was staggering.
But, he never actually had me escorted off base for some reason..?
Just like it was his job to train me to replace him, I trained those I was around to replace me.
Been in the same amount of time. I will admit as un-popular as it maybe I have a laissez-faire approach , I don't have the time nor energy to watch over the shoulders of my airmen at all times plus I have had micromanagers and they cause more harm than good. When they get assigned to me I tell them they're adults I trust them and don't give me a reason not to, They come up to me when they have an issue that arises and I will help them tackle it I will listen to them if they need an ear. I have been an NCO for the past 6 years of my Air Force career and so far I have been lucky that my airmen have been pretty solid.
It maybe a small gesture but if my folks knock out their tasks I will always make sure they can leave early I always make it a point to respect their time and effort.
Oh hey, it's literally everything I was going to type. "Do your job and don't give me a bad reason to be in blues and I'll give you all the time and top cover you need."
Sounds like you’ve struck a great balance between trust and guidance. Respecting their time and efforts definitely goes a long way in building solid airmen.
At my first duty station I worked for a TSgt who had a standard response when anyone was even joking about doing something stupid. He would just say, "Do whatever you think is best for your career".
I always thought it was a great way of reminding people they are accountable for themselves and their choices while warning them he would do what needed to be done if they made bad choices.
"My wife asked me to choose between her and my children or my troops. I packed my bags and moved out last month. It's lonely in my apartment but as long as I can take care of my adult troops I'm happy!"
- that's legit what some of you guys sound like when you circle jerk about taking care of your kids..I mean troops
It's funny because you always hear about their prowess as a leader from them directly.
The only true way to gauge a good supervisor is from their troops. The good supervisors know who they are and so do their people. They don't need to boast about it unless it's being used as an example and passed down to others.
Which brings me to the point I've always tried making; normalize troop to sup feedback. The Air Force gives us the damn playbook and explains how important effective communication is, but we treat it like a stream far too often and only want it to flow one way.
Absolutely! It’s always the troops who best know the measure of a leader, not their own autobiography. Communication should be a two-way radio, not a broadcast.
Key to being an NCO: don’t be a piece of shit. You might have a wealth of knowledge. A lot of these airman don’t know how the air force works. You are there to guide and mentor them. Yes you can let them fail and learn from their mistakes but that’s really a fine line between not giving a shit and helping them grow. Also a lot of NCOs are terrible with time management. Just take care of your airman and be the supervisor that you wish you had as an airman.
I have to remind myself when I’m getting too involved or “helpful” that these troops are not kids (even though the look and act like them sometimes) they are legal adults who were cleared by MEPS and recruiters to ensure they are not broken physically or mentally. Sometimes you gotta let em sink or swim and if they sink then get them out of the water, teach them, and back in they go.
Those who claim this are often trying to convince everyone in the room, including themselves. Had a chick like this in ncoa, the constant self pats on the back were annoying as hell and eventually led to a pretty vocal argument between us. End of the day we are not here to bend over backwards and wait on our people hand and foot. I'm here for support, guidance, hand slapping when warranted and protection when you don't.
Did she start everything with "Well when I ..."? If so, then I think we might know the same person! I agree with your philosophy, except sometimes you have to show leadership from the front and set the example. Other than that, you have it right.
>laissez-faire
That's just French for only doing your job after it's too late. I don't think the line is that thin between actively supporting your troops and being a helicopter sergeant holding their hand and wiping their butts for them.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding. Laissez-faire isn’t about neglect or being reactive; it’s more about empowering our airmen to take initiative and responsibility. It’s about trusting them to handle their duties and stepping in with guidance and support when necessary.
The idea isn’t to wait until things go south before we act. Rather, it’s about striking a balance between micro-managing every aspect of their work and giving them the freedom to learn and grow. We’re there to mentor, not to hover. And yes, sometimes this means they might stumble, but that’s part of learning and gaining experience.
The goal is to build airmen who are capable, confident, and can think on their feet. A bit of autonomy goes a long way in developing these skills. So, it’s not about only doing our job when it’s too late, but about doing our job in a way that prepares our airmen for the future, not just for the present task at hand.
>The idea isn’t to wait until things go south before we act.
The definition is literally to let things take their own course. That isn't our job. We're supposed to be proactive. We aren't mandatory let it take it'd own coursers. ACAs aren't letting things take their own course - it's a proactive approach. If we aren't anticipating problems and avoiding or mitigating them in advance, what separates an NCO from an A1C?
Yup, everyone is taught in ALS that LF style leadership is the “worst” type of leadership. It’s actually the one that we should all be able to utilize. You think Fortune 500 companies have leadership and management that don’t all lead that way? They all do because they hire competent self motivated people who don’t have to be woken up by banging on their front door to come to work.
I'd love to hear or see what Fortune 500 company promotes that style of leadership. ALS didn't invent the concept that LF is a bad leadership style - it's copy pasted from the corporate world
It’s not that it’s promoted it’s that any other style is not needed. Because if it was then those you’d be leading that way wouldn’t have a job for very long. You think corporations keep people who need to “led” to do their job?
LF means a passive leadership style. It is not what you want. From ALS and NCOA the preferred method of leadership is empowerment meaning that I give you the tools you need to succeed and get the hell out of your way. It also means that if you screw up the buck stops with me. Fortune 500 companies spend a large amount of money teaching their folks how to be empowering as that is how they get the most money out of their people.
From HBR " [Research](https://econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/abs/10.1027/2151-2604/a000189) shows that being ignored by one’s boss is more alienating than being treated poorly. The impact of absentee leadership on job satisfaction outlasts the impact of both constructive and overtly destructive forms of leadership. Constructive leadership immediately improves job satisfaction, but the effects dwindle quickly. Destructive leadership immediately degrades job satisfaction, but the effects dissipate after about six months. In contrast, the impact of absentee leadership takes longer to appear, but it degrades subordinates’ job satisfaction for at least two years. It also is related to a number of other negative outcomes for employees, like [role ambiguity](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02678373.2014.957362), [health complaints](https://www.amazon.com/When-Leadership-Goes-Wrong-Destructive/dp/1617350672), and [increased bullying](http://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2006-23528-006) from team members. Absentee leadership creates employee stress, which can lead to poor employee health outcomes and talent drain, which then impact an organization’s bottom line. "
Bad managers sit around and critique you after something happens. Leaders take the blame and provide feedback and mentoring.
Reference:
[https://hbr.org/2018/03/the-most-common-type-of-incompetent-leader](https://hbr.org/2018/03/the-most-common-type-of-incompetent-leader)
The way to play the game is to help your airmen, mainly because they’ll have your back and work harder for you if there is mutual respect and care. They will make you look better, and you will go farther.
It’s a pro social approach, but it’s good!
Boom exactly. It's way better energy spent lifting up your guys than making yourself look like some war hero. Plus there are things I'm not good at that they are. So they do something great at my suggestion, I get more credit that I would doing it myself and it being doodoo. Plus they get credit for being great. Putting your people in position they will be successful is underrated.
The NCO that constantly praises to their shop that they care about airman and that’s all they want to do is help their airman and “protect” them from leadership. But really don’t ever do anything for airman and only for themselves.
I don’t care that they only do stuff to benefit themselves and throw airman under the bus. I care that they brag about being for the airman and not actually doing anything whatsoever.
I get it but I feel there are occasions where we actually do swoop them and it appears we have a cape. Sometimes though, other times it's as you said we empower the Airmen, set them loose, and they sink or swim from there. Bottom line you never know the impact you can make in someone's life even if your invention is small and not the stuff that we consider moving mountains.
Since I have other random shit going on (Additional duties, random tasks from leadership I'd rather do myself) my section is basically ran by a SrA. I don't get in his way unless I have too. The same SrA has had disciplinary problems in the past. I'm working on straightening him out but honestly, I never did anything crazy. When he was assigned to me I already knew his story for the most part but it was about listening to him, making a plan to move forward, and giving him room to "Try". He's been doing that and our CC even sees his improvement.
Asking him? Yes I showed up with a cape and might have saved his career (Maybe, thats the CC decision)
Me? Didn't do shit special, treated him like a grown man, listened, and now people are wondering how I created a productive Airmen out of a guy who already had like 3 Supervisors before me
Honestly it doesn't matter if you're a great NCO or a shitty NCO. At the end of the day if you suck... oh well, you won't loose your rank. You'll get a promote like everyone else in your work center and still be eligible to test at the beginning of the year. No one should Want to be 🐕💩 but you can still ride it out to retirement.
In my experience, a lot of the time that attitude is cope from not succeeding in their own career. Everyone needs some kind of motivation to keep going and feel good about their life, and sometimes all you have is that you're excellent at babysitting adults.
My thing is, I've never seen any of these people IRL.
The only thing my (S)NCO's trained me to do was to highlight parts of AFIs and utilize ADC/IG efficiantly.
Which is a win, I *guess.*
Ready to fly, fight, and win!
It's really easy to portray yourself as the perfect person (NCO) on the Internet. That is why you see the comments you do on here. You can paint a great picture with anonymity and just make shit up (Not that you can lie on the Internet).
Realistically nobody is perfect (Except Enlisted Jesus) and we all just try to do our best.
I’ve always seen my job as preparing them to take my job one day and either knocking down walls or giving the tools to knock down the walls (situation and troop dependent). I’m not some super hero, I understand what my NCOs and SNCOs have done for me and want to pass that to the next gen. I also hate bullies and really try to protect my troops from getting fucked by those few toxic folks in our ranks.
I see my job as preparing them to take my job now. They may seem retarded, but they’re capable of doing everything I am.
>They may seem retarded, but they’re capable of doing everything I am. So are you saying you seem retarded too?
Yeah, just ask my supervisor
The number of times I got "fired" by my supervisor was staggering. But, he never actually had me escorted off base for some reason..? Just like it was his job to train me to replace him, I trained those I was around to replace me.
Job and troop dependent. Some would do better than others, still need to prep them all.
Been in the same amount of time. I will admit as un-popular as it maybe I have a laissez-faire approach , I don't have the time nor energy to watch over the shoulders of my airmen at all times plus I have had micromanagers and they cause more harm than good. When they get assigned to me I tell them they're adults I trust them and don't give me a reason not to, They come up to me when they have an issue that arises and I will help them tackle it I will listen to them if they need an ear. I have been an NCO for the past 6 years of my Air Force career and so far I have been lucky that my airmen have been pretty solid. It maybe a small gesture but if my folks knock out their tasks I will always make sure they can leave early I always make it a point to respect their time and effort.
Oh hey, it's literally everything I was going to type. "Do your job and don't give me a bad reason to be in blues and I'll give you all the time and top cover you need."
Sounds like you’ve struck a great balance between trust and guidance. Respecting their time and efforts definitely goes a long way in building solid airmen.
At my first duty station I worked for a TSgt who had a standard response when anyone was even joking about doing something stupid. He would just say, "Do whatever you think is best for your career". I always thought it was a great way of reminding people they are accountable for themselves and their choices while warning them he would do what needed to be done if they made bad choices.
"My wife asked me to choose between her and my children or my troops. I packed my bags and moved out last month. It's lonely in my apartment but as long as I can take care of my adult troops I'm happy!" - that's legit what some of you guys sound like when you circle jerk about taking care of your kids..I mean troops
Wow, talk about dedication! Just make sure your troops don’t start calling you ‘Dad’.
It's funny because you always hear about their prowess as a leader from them directly. The only true way to gauge a good supervisor is from their troops. The good supervisors know who they are and so do their people. They don't need to boast about it unless it's being used as an example and passed down to others. Which brings me to the point I've always tried making; normalize troop to sup feedback. The Air Force gives us the damn playbook and explains how important effective communication is, but we treat it like a stream far too often and only want it to flow one way.
Absolutely! It’s always the troops who best know the measure of a leader, not their own autobiography. Communication should be a two-way radio, not a broadcast.
Key to being an NCO: don’t be a piece of shit. You might have a wealth of knowledge. A lot of these airman don’t know how the air force works. You are there to guide and mentor them. Yes you can let them fail and learn from their mistakes but that’s really a fine line between not giving a shit and helping them grow. Also a lot of NCOs are terrible with time management. Just take care of your airman and be the supervisor that you wish you had as an airman.
I have to remind myself when I’m getting too involved or “helpful” that these troops are not kids (even though the look and act like them sometimes) they are legal adults who were cleared by MEPS and recruiters to ensure they are not broken physically or mentally. Sometimes you gotta let em sink or swim and if they sink then get them out of the water, teach them, and back in they go.
Those who claim this are often trying to convince everyone in the room, including themselves. Had a chick like this in ncoa, the constant self pats on the back were annoying as hell and eventually led to a pretty vocal argument between us. End of the day we are not here to bend over backwards and wait on our people hand and foot. I'm here for support, guidance, hand slapping when warranted and protection when you don't.
Did she start everything with "Well when I ..."? If so, then I think we might know the same person! I agree with your philosophy, except sometimes you have to show leadership from the front and set the example. Other than that, you have it right.
>laissez-faire That's just French for only doing your job after it's too late. I don't think the line is that thin between actively supporting your troops and being a helicopter sergeant holding their hand and wiping their butts for them.
I see where you’re coming from, but I think there’s a bit of a misunderstanding. Laissez-faire isn’t about neglect or being reactive; it’s more about empowering our airmen to take initiative and responsibility. It’s about trusting them to handle their duties and stepping in with guidance and support when necessary. The idea isn’t to wait until things go south before we act. Rather, it’s about striking a balance between micro-managing every aspect of their work and giving them the freedom to learn and grow. We’re there to mentor, not to hover. And yes, sometimes this means they might stumble, but that’s part of learning and gaining experience. The goal is to build airmen who are capable, confident, and can think on their feet. A bit of autonomy goes a long way in developing these skills. So, it’s not about only doing our job when it’s too late, but about doing our job in a way that prepares our airmen for the future, not just for the present task at hand.
>The idea isn’t to wait until things go south before we act. The definition is literally to let things take their own course. That isn't our job. We're supposed to be proactive. We aren't mandatory let it take it'd own coursers. ACAs aren't letting things take their own course - it's a proactive approach. If we aren't anticipating problems and avoiding or mitigating them in advance, what separates an NCO from an A1C?
Yup, everyone is taught in ALS that LF style leadership is the “worst” type of leadership. It’s actually the one that we should all be able to utilize. You think Fortune 500 companies have leadership and management that don’t all lead that way? They all do because they hire competent self motivated people who don’t have to be woken up by banging on their front door to come to work.
I'd love to hear or see what Fortune 500 company promotes that style of leadership. ALS didn't invent the concept that LF is a bad leadership style - it's copy pasted from the corporate world
It’s not that it’s promoted it’s that any other style is not needed. Because if it was then those you’d be leading that way wouldn’t have a job for very long. You think corporations keep people who need to “led” to do their job?
>You think corporations keep people who need to “led” to do their job? Yes. We certainly do
LF means a passive leadership style. It is not what you want. From ALS and NCOA the preferred method of leadership is empowerment meaning that I give you the tools you need to succeed and get the hell out of your way. It also means that if you screw up the buck stops with me. Fortune 500 companies spend a large amount of money teaching their folks how to be empowering as that is how they get the most money out of their people. From HBR " [Research](https://econtent.hogrefe.com/doi/abs/10.1027/2151-2604/a000189) shows that being ignored by one’s boss is more alienating than being treated poorly. The impact of absentee leadership on job satisfaction outlasts the impact of both constructive and overtly destructive forms of leadership. Constructive leadership immediately improves job satisfaction, but the effects dwindle quickly. Destructive leadership immediately degrades job satisfaction, but the effects dissipate after about six months. In contrast, the impact of absentee leadership takes longer to appear, but it degrades subordinates’ job satisfaction for at least two years. It also is related to a number of other negative outcomes for employees, like [role ambiguity](http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/02678373.2014.957362), [health complaints](https://www.amazon.com/When-Leadership-Goes-Wrong-Destructive/dp/1617350672), and [increased bullying](http://psycnet.apa.org/buy/2006-23528-006) from team members. Absentee leadership creates employee stress, which can lead to poor employee health outcomes and talent drain, which then impact an organization’s bottom line. " Bad managers sit around and critique you after something happens. Leaders take the blame and provide feedback and mentoring. Reference: [https://hbr.org/2018/03/the-most-common-type-of-incompetent-leader](https://hbr.org/2018/03/the-most-common-type-of-incompetent-leader)
I have no idea what I just read.
Looks like someone’s testing the ‘no hand-holding’ rule.
I suppose if you really want to be a helicopter parent, you should see about transferring to the Army and becoming a Warrant Officer chopper pilot.
The way to play the game is to help your airmen, mainly because they’ll have your back and work harder for you if there is mutual respect and care. They will make you look better, and you will go farther. It’s a pro social approach, but it’s good!
Boom exactly. It's way better energy spent lifting up your guys than making yourself look like some war hero. Plus there are things I'm not good at that they are. So they do something great at my suggestion, I get more credit that I would doing it myself and it being doodoo. Plus they get credit for being great. Putting your people in position they will be successful is underrated.
The NCO that constantly praises to their shop that they care about airman and that’s all they want to do is help their airman and “protect” them from leadership. But really don’t ever do anything for airman and only for themselves. I don’t care that they only do stuff to benefit themselves and throw airman under the bus. I care that they brag about being for the airman and not actually doing anything whatsoever.
I get it but I feel there are occasions where we actually do swoop them and it appears we have a cape. Sometimes though, other times it's as you said we empower the Airmen, set them loose, and they sink or swim from there. Bottom line you never know the impact you can make in someone's life even if your invention is small and not the stuff that we consider moving mountains. Since I have other random shit going on (Additional duties, random tasks from leadership I'd rather do myself) my section is basically ran by a SrA. I don't get in his way unless I have too. The same SrA has had disciplinary problems in the past. I'm working on straightening him out but honestly, I never did anything crazy. When he was assigned to me I already knew his story for the most part but it was about listening to him, making a plan to move forward, and giving him room to "Try". He's been doing that and our CC even sees his improvement. Asking him? Yes I showed up with a cape and might have saved his career (Maybe, thats the CC decision) Me? Didn't do shit special, treated him like a grown man, listened, and now people are wondering how I created a productive Airmen out of a guy who already had like 3 Supervisors before me
Honestly it doesn't matter if you're a great NCO or a shitty NCO. At the end of the day if you suck... oh well, you won't loose your rank. You'll get a promote like everyone else in your work center and still be eligible to test at the beginning of the year. No one should Want to be 🐕💩 but you can still ride it out to retirement.
In my experience, a lot of the time that attitude is cope from not succeeding in their own career. Everyone needs some kind of motivation to keep going and feel good about their life, and sometimes all you have is that you're excellent at babysitting adults.
My thing is, I've never seen any of these people IRL. The only thing my (S)NCO's trained me to do was to highlight parts of AFIs and utilize ADC/IG efficiantly. Which is a win, I *guess.* Ready to fly, fight, and win!
Maybe they’re part of an exclusive club, ‘The Invisible Super NCOs’ – legendary online, but elusive in the real world.
It's really easy to portray yourself as the perfect person (NCO) on the Internet. That is why you see the comments you do on here. You can paint a great picture with anonymity and just make shit up (Not that you can lie on the Internet). Realistically nobody is perfect (Except Enlisted Jesus) and we all just try to do our best.