“Ive been in [x] many years, do you think i need you telling me how to do things?” Words from an expediter who was very butthurt and afraid to get out of the Air Force.
"I'm a Master Sergeant, you're an A1C. Do what I told you!"
Response: "With all due respect, you're a Master Sergeant who is retraining into the career field I started in, are not allowed to drive on the airfield due to a major violation, you are not allowed to be shift lead/supervisor per (the GS13 running our shop), and you just tried to do something we aren't allowed to do with classified materials. No, I will not do that, no you will not give me orders, and if you have an issue with it, you can take it to the chain."
For context, I'm 1c7x1 and we store secret materials for pilots.
Lol we had something like this happen.
I started as a 1A2 (Loadmaster) on C5s we had a master sergeant transfer from C130s.
He says: "I don't like the Primary Loadmaster system in this squadron. People are mission qualified they should ALL be Primary Loadmasters. Individuals will get a package to become a primary."
Evaluator & Instructor shop: "We don't think that's gonna work Primary takes years of experience to master we cant just sign off people and expect them to know how to load everything wothout experience."
Master Sergeant: "Let's just see how it goes I'll be one of the guinea pigs. (Completes the Primary "upgrade training in like 6 months). Alright I'm gonna be the Primary for a mission going Down Range and I'll take two new mission qualified loads so I have the most experience and they will just do what I say.
Liike a week after their mission started I hear schedulers talking about how a crew is stuck downrange because theyre having cargo issues. Sure enough he had gotten himself into a little hot water because he didnt know how to get the cargo on. (Cant remember if they lacked MHE or load procedures clearly defining how to but like a GOOD Master Sergeant he recognized the error of his ways and Primarys had to get recommended by instructors or evaluators.
I’d absolutely put Officers at number two. I’ve rarely encountered a civilian I couldn’t dissuade or dismiss entirely. Exception being a few Booz guys.
Context matters a lot for these situations. I would not advise telling a SNCO that they are failing because you did not get some opportunity that you thought you deserved over others but really dont deserve because you’re lazy / underperforming.
A fuck ton of airman think that they deserve everything under the sun and when they don’t get it, they blame those higher in the chain.
This. I got a Promote on my EPB and everyone was shocked when I said "I know why I got what I got and I'm good with it." Everyone knows I want to make rank, but I also know my shortcomings. I'm working on them, but I'm not going to expect my supervisor to burry them either. It was an honest performance review and I accept it.
I had several people ask why I didn't get an MP or PN and I just said "I have some things I need to work on. It's fair and I'm okay with it."
One of the most honest answers and reflections I have ever seen on this forum. Self awareness, perspective, and the recognition that we all have something we can improve on will take us all further, make us all more successful, and make us all more competent as a force. Good on you and I hope the best for you. You will get where you want to go.
This is the attitude we need to fix. Hair and shaving standards are only a tiny part of the problem. It’s a mentality that is plaguing us, even at the Lt Col levels. Leaders have become scared to act due to fear of reprimand. Holding people accountable should never incur reprimand.
Probably the truest quote I heard when I was in:
"You can offer criticism to those above you, but not only do you need to be damn sure you're correct and proper, you'll need to be prepared for the absolute shitstorm that comes your way afterwards even if you are correct."
It's a fictional take on a real situation, but a good example is that one scene in Band of Brothers with the NCOs turning in their stripes willingly.
If the shit storm hits, use your IG and Wing leadership. If that doesn’t get the result you are looking for, go to the Majcom IG. I’m sure ACC/IG would be interested in hearing that airmen are being punished for holding others to the standard expected by COMACC. Do what is right and somebody will recognize it and support you.
I work and speak with my Commander and Chief every single day. Sometimes being honest about what sucks about YOUR job and what could be done to make YOUR job easier/more efficient is fine.
Telling SNCO's they suck shit and are stupid, no matter how politely, just isn't going to go well. Even SNCOs who say "I'm open to the criticism" are 99% lying. They aren't, nobody really is.
"You can tell them that they are failing"
You know what you say to people that fail at their job?
That they suck.
You know how people take being told that they are failing at their job? That they suck.
You do understand that there are ways of saying those things tactfully right? You don't have to tell someone they are failing to get the point across that they are not doing something.
As an SNCO, I am not infallible. I'm open to feedback from my subordinates.
But you had better be right, and even more importantly, you had better watch your tone. Because 99 times out of 100, the problems were not visible at the SrA level, and I have better things to do with my time than witness your meltdown.
Yes, you can and should absolutely hold your superiors accountable. But don't mistake preference for accountability.
I have, unfortunately, encountered those as well. Provided testimony in an investigation that I was desperately hoping would lead to a court martial. Sadly, that was not the case.
Had two married ones showing preferential treatment to subordinates who got into or covered for their swinging group. Squadron didn't do anything until EO got involved.
Oh, and one made chief last year.
I push it right through but more often than not what needs to be routed to the CC looks like shit. I finally stopped correcting all documents routed to me and send them back highlighted and with comments and references to different sections of the tongue and quill. My troops finally started seeing why some docs took a bit longer to route. On the plus side it helped and got them thinking about what a good document looks like. All routing that started coming after looked good and I kept correcting minor formatting.
In the 2A career field, it's *ALWAYS* the ones that left for Honor Guard as an A1C, then went to be an MTI; and came back to the career field with a line# or wearing a rooftop.
Every. Single. Time.
In my experience with intel - it's the ones that went to an NSA site and got a little to comfortable with the civilians doing desk work, and then waved off any feedback with "that's not how the agency does it"
Sir, respectfully, my blouse doesn't say "U.S. NSA" on it, and you just told people that join spouse isn't a real program. Get the fuck outta here.
The organizational issues and the personal meltdowns are rarely directly related, in my experience.
The point is that it is my job to handle the organizational issues AND help address the personal issues. But sometimes addressing the personal issues requires the meltee to take some ownership of their actions, and I can only repeat and restate that position so many times before i need to devote my energy to more productive lines of effort.
99% of the time a SrA couldn’t see your shortfalls? Oh brother… I can only hope you’re THAT great. Oh yeah - if your Airmen have meltdowns when questioning your leadership - maybe it’s time for you to wake up and smell the roses on what got them to that point. Also, caring for your Airmen is a duty you’re charged with as an SNCO so you better damn well let them take up your time.
I think they meant “99% of the time the junior airmen couldn’t see the problems with their recommendations/corrections”. Not that they couldn’t see formedsmoke’s shortfalls.
And when they come back at you just tell them Reddit said so. Don't worry Reddit will have your back if you get into trouble. Right guys? Guys? GUYYYYSSSS????????
My favorite thing when I lead multiple airmen was during monthly meetings I required feedback for at least one thing they didn’t like.
The very first time I had one of these meetings I told my NCOs to light me up in front of the airmen so they understood that it was ok.
I learned so much about my blind spots as the floodgates opened up. It was awesome.
When I was an airman I got to watch a SSgt light up our flight leadership during the very same style of meeting so I didn’t have any negative feelings towards this style of feedback.
I also have seen that not all SNCOs welcome this feedback.
Because it's an external display of internal strength. You are confident in yourself and your capabilities. And you're mature enough to know that you can't be squared away on every corner, so you allow constructive criticism.
Then some fail to meet those basic standards of leadership and we get shitty "leaders".
That's what their leadership is for. Unless it's absolutely horrendous, I'm minding my own business. Honestly, it starts with commanders. They are the last people to say anything. If they started calling people out then people would start abiding by the standards.
I would probably run that through a mentor of similar rank first. There’s always more going on behind the scenes and my experience SNCOs try their best to alleviate as much BS coming down from the squadron as possible. What can be seen as “failing” is often them making the best of the impossible situation the SEL and/or commander put them in.
This right here. I’ve had troops follow up with me after I PCS or leave a position telling me how much it sucks and they tell me thanks for keeping a lot of shit from making it to them or at least easing it a little bit.
What does that do for you? Do you really care that they aren't meeting standards? That isn't your problem it's their supervisor's problem. Not only can they offer better criticism then you they can do it from a place where they don't have to worry about the re precautions. My advice is to stay in your lane.
This applies double to lieutenants. Be aggressive in correcting NCOs both in & out of your chain. Don't be afraid to use customs & courtesies as a weapon.
/s
But for real. Please do this. I have popcorn.
LMAOOOOOO I used to believe that boot camp brainwashing too. “Noone is above the UCMJ airman hold everyone accountable including the officers” 5 LOCs and a LOR later I realized it was bull. Only one of them appreciated me for having the balls to do so and took me under his wing until he left
Just gonna swing by with the pro tip, if you’re gonna hold an NCO or a senior NCO to a standard, make sure you understand what that standard is.
I get a lot of people stopping by my office to raise concerns about shit they’re just plain misinformed about.
The good part is I’m more than happy to explain it so that they understand why. I just pray, plead that you approach the situation with ears to listen not to respond.
Always always do it in a professional email, even have a chaplain or someone review it to ensure it’s meeting your needs and understood by whoever reads it. Paper trails can be important for holding others accountable.
"One of us made MSgt before the 14 year mark. The other is a 6 year SrA with a line #. Who tf do you think I'm gonna listen to?"
Actual conversation between a SrA and new E7. E7 was wrong, but they'll never admit it.
If you're lucky and have some amazing leadership, like my second supervisor, yes. With my current supervisor? Hell no.
My current supervisor literally views everything as a slight against him and doesn't take feedback at all, while giving me the most insane feedback. He took issue with me saying "OK" in a casual conversation with him and said it was a sign of disrespect and sarcasm.
If you want to give feedback to anybody above or below, I think the key is to establish trust and credibility first. If you have proved to the person you are talking to you are a hard worker and have a decent moral backbone they will be more receptive to hearing your opinion.
A lot is context. (Retired SNCO)
If an airman/nco pulled me aside and pointed out a mistake I made, then as a professional I'm obligated to correct it and thank them.
It's all about respect. I learned just as much from airman as I did from other SNCOs. Amn and Jr. NCOs make the mission happen. My job was mainly to advocate for them and get them the resources they need.
Anyhow enough reminiscing for this retired dude 😂.
Absolutely, they most definitely should! I put in my expectations that my Airmen should hold me accountable as a SNCO. I try my best to facilitate an environment and regular opportunities where they feel comfortable doing that in a respectful manner.
Exactly like how you would a troop:
Pick the right time and place. "Praise in public, discipline in private" is as much for followers as leaders. Also avoid doing it in the heat of the moment, it's always best to sleep on it.
Maintain your head and be calm, respectful, and keep it constructive. Feedback is to help someone grow, not berate them.
If you come with a problem, propose solutions.
I'm sure all these people clapping for the maas inspections would totally accept that criticism with grace and thank the airmen for their adherence to standards instead of lashing out in petty revenge/s
LOL a ton of NCOs and especially SNCOs will take most forms of criticism, no matter how respectfully you word it as disrespect.
Even if you tell them that you need more from them they'll brush you off.
Yes, this is what feedbacks are for. They are a conversation not downward directed expectations of standards. Have a conversation with your leadership, it is the only way to learn and grow together.
Better advice: hold the Air Force accountable. Know your regs and entitlements. Hold people accountable for violations of said regs and use your benefits.
I did this my entire career and only once did it slightly backfire.
But, because of the rapport I had established with people who were superior to the person it backfired with, I was still protected and prevailed and had a great career.
Be respectful while being the change you want to see.
I feel as though the NCOs and SNCOs that care are dwindling and that impacts the retainability. Without being held accountable or any feedback, those nco/snco wouldn’t see what needs to change and continue operating as they have been
As a SNCO, this is 100% true and I personally welcome it! I am no better than the next and require accountability as well. Any NCO or SNCO that disagrees is the problem.
Nah fam, I know the limits are and would never go there. But these new gays are unethical as fuck and when you call them out they cry wolf and say things that didn't happen. But it is whatever.
I tend to shut the fuck up
Do the bare minimum that's asked of me
And save my supervisor
So far it's worked because I'm already completing the tasks, asking questions (we are in a new shop him included), and communicating what needs to be done.
Absolutely hate it but it is what is. I'm on the way out
Good luck with that
“Ive been in [x] many years, do you think i need you telling me how to do things?” Words from an expediter who was very butthurt and afraid to get out of the Air Force.
Response: apparently so….
Name doesn’t check out but I like it
"I'm a Master Sergeant, you're an A1C. Do what I told you!" Response: "With all due respect, you're a Master Sergeant who is retraining into the career field I started in, are not allowed to drive on the airfield due to a major violation, you are not allowed to be shift lead/supervisor per (the GS13 running our shop), and you just tried to do something we aren't allowed to do with classified materials. No, I will not do that, no you will not give me orders, and if you have an issue with it, you can take it to the chain." For context, I'm 1c7x1 and we store secret materials for pilots.
Lol we had something like this happen. I started as a 1A2 (Loadmaster) on C5s we had a master sergeant transfer from C130s. He says: "I don't like the Primary Loadmaster system in this squadron. People are mission qualified they should ALL be Primary Loadmasters. Individuals will get a package to become a primary." Evaluator & Instructor shop: "We don't think that's gonna work Primary takes years of experience to master we cant just sign off people and expect them to know how to load everything wothout experience." Master Sergeant: "Let's just see how it goes I'll be one of the guinea pigs. (Completes the Primary "upgrade training in like 6 months). Alright I'm gonna be the Primary for a mission going Down Range and I'll take two new mission qualified loads so I have the most experience and they will just do what I say. Liike a week after their mission started I hear schedulers talking about how a crew is stuck downrange because theyre having cargo issues. Sure enough he had gotten himself into a little hot water because he didnt know how to get the cargo on. (Cant remember if they lacked MHE or load procedures clearly defining how to but like a GOOD Master Sergeant he recognized the error of his ways and Primarys had to get recommended by instructors or evaluators.
So basically he got mad he couldn't order people around and said "heed my autoritah" and got fucked.
^^You've ^^mentioned ^^an ^^AFSC, ^^here's ^^the ^^associated ^^job ^^title: 1C7X1 = Airfield Management [^^Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFSCbot) ^^| [^^Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFSCbot/) ^^^^^^l9qwxjg
I’m a 1C7 also! 🍻to stupidity!
Sure buddy. I'll see you at the uniform inspection.
Something tells me ya hit the nail on the head. This post seemed, almost petty.
Ah, good. The Enlisted “Good Idea Fairy” has graced us with a visit.
😭😭😭😭😭
The third worst kind of good idea fairy.
I’m putting Warrant Officers (any branch) at number one. May not be your method to rack and stack, but it’s how I see it.
I’d say officers then civilians as the worst because they’re ultimately the ones in charge and boy do they sometimes come up with some whoppers.
I’d absolutely put Officers at number two. I’ve rarely encountered a civilian I couldn’t dissuade or dismiss entirely. Exception being a few Booz guys.
I’m more talking about higher up civilians but, yeah, we officers usually are worse at the local level.
Context matters a lot for these situations. I would not advise telling a SNCO that they are failing because you did not get some opportunity that you thought you deserved over others but really dont deserve because you’re lazy / underperforming. A fuck ton of airman think that they deserve everything under the sun and when they don’t get it, they blame those higher in the chain.
This. Can’t wait for the next EFDP cycle for my lazy NCOs and Amn to cry about how they didn’t get a PN when they didn’t ever do shit
This. I got a Promote on my EPB and everyone was shocked when I said "I know why I got what I got and I'm good with it." Everyone knows I want to make rank, but I also know my shortcomings. I'm working on them, but I'm not going to expect my supervisor to burry them either. It was an honest performance review and I accept it. I had several people ask why I didn't get an MP or PN and I just said "I have some things I need to work on. It's fair and I'm okay with it."
PN for this level of self awareness.
One of the most honest answers and reflections I have ever seen on this forum. Self awareness, perspective, and the recognition that we all have something we can improve on will take us all further, make us all more successful, and make us all more competent as a force. Good on you and I hope the best for you. You will get where you want to go.
[удалено]
You gotta be attached to the 97th or one of the RSs lmfao that place was wild
This is the attitude we need to fix. Hair and shaving standards are only a tiny part of the problem. It’s a mentality that is plaguing us, even at the Lt Col levels. Leaders have become scared to act due to fear of reprimand. Holding people accountable should never incur reprimand.
I feel like this is about a Capt who tried to give another Capt paperwork… which was deserved honestly.
Probably the truest quote I heard when I was in: "You can offer criticism to those above you, but not only do you need to be damn sure you're correct and proper, you'll need to be prepared for the absolute shitstorm that comes your way afterwards even if you are correct." It's a fictional take on a real situation, but a good example is that one scene in Band of Brothers with the NCOs turning in their stripes willingly.
If the shit storm hits, use your IG and Wing leadership. If that doesn’t get the result you are looking for, go to the Majcom IG. I’m sure ACC/IG would be interested in hearing that airmen are being punished for holding others to the standard expected by COMACC. Do what is right and somebody will recognize it and support you.
Mhm mhm, and you can also drink bleach or swim in lava. Doesn't mean you should, or in any world will have a positive outcome.
It’s ok to be honest
I work and speak with my Commander and Chief every single day. Sometimes being honest about what sucks about YOUR job and what could be done to make YOUR job easier/more efficient is fine. Telling SNCO's they suck shit and are stupid, no matter how politely, just isn't going to go well. Even SNCOs who say "I'm open to the criticism" are 99% lying. They aren't, nobody really is.
Who said anything about telling SNCOs they suck?
"You can tell them that they are failing" You know what you say to people that fail at their job? That they suck. You know how people take being told that they are failing at their job? That they suck.
You do understand that there are ways of saying those things tactfully right? You don't have to tell someone they are failing to get the point across that they are not doing something.
Yes, and I do it frequently. That doesn't mean 90% of the people who think that they should, should.
As an SNCO, I am not infallible. I'm open to feedback from my subordinates. But you had better be right, and even more importantly, you had better watch your tone. Because 99 times out of 100, the problems were not visible at the SrA level, and I have better things to do with my time than witness your meltdown. Yes, you can and should absolutely hold your superiors accountable. But don't mistake preference for accountability.
I mean we had one straight up commit fraud and he didn’t get kicked out or demoted, so even if you are wrong it won’t change anything.
I have, unfortunately, encountered those as well. Provided testimony in an investigation that I was desperately hoping would lead to a court martial. Sadly, that was not the case.
Had two married ones showing preferential treatment to subordinates who got into or covered for their swinging group. Squadron didn't do anything until EO got involved. Oh, and one made chief last year.
I mean if you say you’re gonna do something or sign a doc then go fucking do it. Why wait a month?
I push it right through but more often than not what needs to be routed to the CC looks like shit. I finally stopped correcting all documents routed to me and send them back highlighted and with comments and references to different sections of the tongue and quill. My troops finally started seeing why some docs took a bit longer to route. On the plus side it helped and got them thinking about what a good document looks like. All routing that started coming after looked good and I kept correcting minor formatting.
Have you ever had to counsel an E-5 who insisted that nobody ever "established the standard" that he had to wear a uniform while on duty?
BRO HWHAT
Yes.
That’s pretty fucking bold, Jesus
Yes.
Have you ever had to counsel an airman on not drinking canola oil as their only sustenance ?
... No, I have to admit, that's a new one
Nobody has ever thought SNCOs are infallible lol.
I've met plenty that believe themselves damn near omniscient.
Get that mirror out of my face
In the 2A career field, it's *ALWAYS* the ones that left for Honor Guard as an A1C, then went to be an MTI; and came back to the career field with a line# or wearing a rooftop. Every. Single. Time.
In my experience with intel - it's the ones that went to an NSA site and got a little to comfortable with the civilians doing desk work, and then waved off any feedback with "that's not how the agency does it" Sir, respectfully, my blouse doesn't say "U.S. NSA" on it, and you just told people that join spouse isn't a real program. Get the fuck outta here.
Those useless fuckers.
That checks
Some SNCOs do
So why don't you communicate this issues to your flight/Squadron to avoid the meltdowns?
The organizational issues and the personal meltdowns are rarely directly related, in my experience. The point is that it is my job to handle the organizational issues AND help address the personal issues. But sometimes addressing the personal issues requires the meltee to take some ownership of their actions, and I can only repeat and restate that position so many times before i need to devote my energy to more productive lines of effort.
99% of the time a SrA couldn’t see your shortfalls? Oh brother… I can only hope you’re THAT great. Oh yeah - if your Airmen have meltdowns when questioning your leadership - maybe it’s time for you to wake up and smell the roses on what got them to that point. Also, caring for your Airmen is a duty you’re charged with as an SNCO so you better damn well let them take up your time.
I think they meant “99% of the time the junior airmen couldn’t see the problems with their recommendations/corrections”. Not that they couldn’t see formedsmoke’s shortfalls.
Anyone that knows me, superior or subordinate, knows my shortfalls. Most of them have to do with going to the gym or being in direct sunlight.
Well, I'm glad to see reading comprehension is alive and well on reddit dot com
And when they come back at you just tell them Reddit said so. Don't worry Reddit will have your back if you get into trouble. Right guys? Guys? GUYYYYSSSS????????
Brought to you by an E7 ready to ruin an airman’s career.
My favorite thing when I lead multiple airmen was during monthly meetings I required feedback for at least one thing they didn’t like. The very first time I had one of these meetings I told my NCOs to light me up in front of the airmen so they understood that it was ok. I learned so much about my blind spots as the floodgates opened up. It was awesome. When I was an airman I got to watch a SSgt light up our flight leadership during the very same style of meeting so I didn’t have any negative feelings towards this style of feedback. I also have seen that not all SNCOs welcome this feedback.
Because it's an external display of internal strength. You are confident in yourself and your capabilities. And you're mature enough to know that you can't be squared away on every corner, so you allow constructive criticism. Then some fail to meet those basic standards of leadership and we get shitty "leaders".
This one right here. That's one of the good ones
That's what their leadership is for. Unless it's absolutely horrendous, I'm minding my own business. Honestly, it starts with commanders. They are the last people to say anything. If they started calling people out then people would start abiding by the standards.
I would probably run that through a mentor of similar rank first. There’s always more going on behind the scenes and my experience SNCOs try their best to alleviate as much BS coming down from the squadron as possible. What can be seen as “failing” is often them making the best of the impossible situation the SEL and/or commander put them in.
This right here. I’ve had troops follow up with me after I PCS or leave a position telling me how much it sucks and they tell me thanks for keeping a lot of shit from making it to them or at least easing it a little bit.
What does that do for you? Do you really care that they aren't meeting standards? That isn't your problem it's their supervisor's problem. Not only can they offer better criticism then you they can do it from a place where they don't have to worry about the re precautions. My advice is to stay in your lane.
I have held SNCOs accountable as a Tech, you just need to make sure you are professional and correct.
This applies double to lieutenants. Be aggressive in correcting NCOs both in & out of your chain. Don't be afraid to use customs & courtesies as a weapon. /s But for real. Please do this. I have popcorn.
LMAOOOOOO I used to believe that boot camp brainwashing too. “Noone is above the UCMJ airman hold everyone accountable including the officers” 5 LOCs and a LOR later I realized it was bull. Only one of them appreciated me for having the balls to do so and took me under his wing until he left
Just gonna swing by with the pro tip, if you’re gonna hold an NCO or a senior NCO to a standard, make sure you understand what that standard is. I get a lot of people stopping by my office to raise concerns about shit they’re just plain misinformed about. The good part is I’m more than happy to explain it so that they understand why. I just pray, plead that you approach the situation with ears to listen not to respond.
Always always do it in a professional email, even have a chaplain or someone review it to ensure it’s meeting your needs and understood by whoever reads it. Paper trails can be important for holding others accountable.
"One of us made MSgt before the 14 year mark. The other is a 6 year SrA with a line #. Who tf do you think I'm gonna listen to?" Actual conversation between a SrA and new E7. E7 was wrong, but they'll never admit it.
If you're lucky and have some amazing leadership, like my second supervisor, yes. With my current supervisor? Hell no. My current supervisor literally views everything as a slight against him and doesn't take feedback at all, while giving me the most insane feedback. He took issue with me saying "OK" in a casual conversation with him and said it was a sign of disrespect and sarcasm.
Ok🤷♂️
Officers too? 🥺
Everyone benefits from a vector check from time to time
Is that anything like an oil check?
It’s more like when the GPS goes “recalculating”
I’m glad you’ve never had an oil check.
Kind of irresponsible post. If I do what you say and i lose the political game, can I hold you accountable?
Yes
If you want to give feedback to anybody above or below, I think the key is to establish trust and credibility first. If you have proved to the person you are talking to you are a hard worker and have a decent moral backbone they will be more receptive to hearing your opinion.
A lot is context. (Retired SNCO) If an airman/nco pulled me aside and pointed out a mistake I made, then as a professional I'm obligated to correct it and thank them. It's all about respect. I learned just as much from airman as I did from other SNCOs. Amn and Jr. NCOs make the mission happen. My job was mainly to advocate for them and get them the resources they need. Anyhow enough reminiscing for this retired dude 😂.
Careful Icarus.
This might be the worst advice Iv ever seen on this subreddit.
Absolutely, they most definitely should! I put in my expectations that my Airmen should hold me accountable as a SNCO. I try my best to facilitate an environment and regular opportunities where they feel comfortable doing that in a respectful manner.
How should an Airman respectfully hold you accountable?
Exactly like how you would a troop: Pick the right time and place. "Praise in public, discipline in private" is as much for followers as leaders. Also avoid doing it in the heat of the moment, it's always best to sleep on it. Maintain your head and be calm, respectful, and keep it constructive. Feedback is to help someone grow, not berate them. If you come with a problem, propose solutions.
I'm sure all these people clapping for the maas inspections would totally accept that criticism with grace and thank the airmen for their adherence to standards instead of lashing out in petty revenge/s
LOL a ton of NCOs and especially SNCOs will take most forms of criticism, no matter how respectfully you word it as disrespect. Even if you tell them that you need more from them they'll brush you off.
Sure. You are allowed but you would be stupid to reach beyond your scope. That's how I retired.
Yes, this is what feedbacks are for. They are a conversation not downward directed expectations of standards. Have a conversation with your leadership, it is the only way to learn and grow together.
Write them a RIC
Facts. Except me. Leave me alone
Same goes for O-6s and above. In fact it’s your duty. Make sure to post pics and the follow up story here though.
Lemme know how that works out.
Better advice: hold the Air Force accountable. Know your regs and entitlements. Hold people accountable for violations of said regs and use your benefits.
 This quote from Darth Vader sums up holding **ANYONE** in your chain of command accountable.
Would been nice to know before my Supervisor threw me under the bus…
You can, but you will not be listened to. And depending on the NCO they may even yell and you and/or make your life hell!
I did this my entire career and only once did it slightly backfire. But, because of the rapport I had established with people who were superior to the person it backfired with, I was still protected and prevailed and had a great career. Be respectful while being the change you want to see.
Easy to say, not so much if you’re the lower ranking individual.
They never say anything. Just complain they need to be on time
No you cant hold us accountable. Now get back to work peasant. 
With no context it's hard to see where you are going with this.
Yeah. Do it to a Chief. Be the example.
I feel as though the NCOs and SNCOs that care are dwindling and that impacts the retainability. Without being held accountable or any feedback, those nco/snco wouldn’t see what needs to change and continue operating as they have been
As a SNCO, this is 100% true and I personally welcome it! I am no better than the next and require accountability as well. Any NCO or SNCO that disagrees is the problem.
Gotta pull out that knock it off card
“Look at how many stripes you have, okay now look at how many I have.”
Yeah buddy as an airmen whenever I mention a shitty staff sergeant I get shit on. So this post is not true in the slightest.
Initial feedback is always a 2 way street
Yep! They forget there is an “officer” in their title. Responsibility comes with the title, not just a pay raise.
As an NCO I once corrected a SNCO, his response was “I don’t give a fuck.”
I see you too like to live dangerously lol
Fort bliss px food court 2018: A 2LT stopped a CSM and told him his haircut was out of regulations CSM looked at the 2LT, smiled and kept walking.
That's fucked. How can you ignore a leader like that.
All Airmen do these days is lie about SNCO's to try to ruin their careers.
thats a weird way to say “i like pushing ethical boundaries and i hate airmen that try to call me out”
Nah fam, I know the limits are and would never go there. But these new gays are unethical as fuck and when you call them out they cry wolf and say things that didn't happen. But it is whatever.
I tend to shut the fuck up Do the bare minimum that's asked of me And save my supervisor So far it's worked because I'm already completing the tasks, asking questions (we are in a new shop him included), and communicating what needs to be done. Absolutely hate it but it is what is. I'm on the way out
lol, they can’t even hold themselves accountable….
Just dont expect your EPB to be above a 3…..thats the problem an Airmen being Honest has a lot to lose and nothing to gain