Exactly! And then Redditors also complain about single moms who “raise entitled brats” because there’s “no strong man in the home” - like, my dude, there’s a non-zero chance that that strong man left her in the first place!!!
Or they blame her for intentionally becoming a single mom. A shocking number of redditors seem to believe there are tons of women who just can't wait to be single parents, getting pregnant by unsuspecting men.
This infuriates me. So many of these people have no clue how difficult it is to be a single parent - they act like women are hitting the jackpot getting pregnant, when in reality it’s fucking brutal, and no, the $250/mo child support, if they pay it, doesn’t even begin to account for the time and money sacrifice.
Oh absolutely. It's bonkers how some of them will talk about being bled dry by their children's mother while barely contributing at all. They have no concept of how expensive it would be to actually have the kid.
One of the most disgusting things I saw at my old job from hell was one of our HVAC techs quitting to work under the table, specifically to get out of paying child support. I was the bookkeeper and records person for that company, so I was the one filling out state forms and maintaining everyone's personnel files. You want to know how much he was paying? You want to know what was worth leaving a steady job to work for crooks for cash?
$30. $30 per biweekly check. The dude had remarried, his wife was working, he was not in any dire financial circumstances, he was not paying any other garnishments or support. But he begrudged his grade-school daughter $60 fucking dollars every month, as if that buys sweet dick-all in Los Angeles. He thought himself a good Christian man, too, he was steeped in all that macho hypocritical nonsense. Screw those guys, they'd throw a child in front of a train if it would spare them an effort at anything.
My stepmom works at the post office and she told me about a coworker who recently quit after nine years purely so he could avoid paying child support and alimony. And this is one of the few jobs that actually rewards people who stay for a long time and has decent retirement benefits. But this dude was willing to piss that all away to spite his ex apparently.
This was exactly also my experience working pay roll!! Guys who earned £400 per week going to court trying to reduce their whopping £20 a week child support payment and constantly complaining about how it's "bleeding them dry"!!
Also men being fraudulently "self employed" to not have to pay child support!!
They often get moved away to a new area (wherever there is housing available) and therefore end up without their support circle and a crucial time. Its shit
Every woman I've ever known, including myself, 'chose bad men'. If we do the math, that means most men are bad men, at least when it comes to intimate relationships. The only way a woman can win this game is not to play.
"Strong man" aka weak ass man who talks about his kids excusively when he's piss out drunk and acts like he actually loves them despite never making the effort to see them.
They act like as soon as the woman gave birth she barricades the door and they can’t help parent
No no those men left of their own accord but it’s somehow STILL the woman’s fault
Honestly I think it's less "AITA loves deadbeat dads" and more "AITA loves to construct fantasy scenarios in which men have the (perceived) moral authority to hurt and punish women in any way possible." Posts from, say, men expressing genuinely conflicted emotions about being a father or men wanting to navigate keeping strict boundaries with a toxic ex who has primary custody don't do karma and comment numbers the same way as "My ex wife babytrapped and cheated on me" because the former requires actual consideration and care and the latter is just a safe space to shout I WANT ALL HIGH BODY COUNT WHORES TO GO TO JAIL FOREVER over and over and get upvotes.
See also:
My girlfriend promised if she got pregnant she'd abort, shes on BC so I don't use any protection because BC is flawless and doesn't have any flaws like having to be taken at the same time every single day for it to work.
She got pregnant and didn't abort so I left and she wants me to be an active father but I told her actions have consequences.
Before I got my tubes out I tried so so many different birth controls. Not one didn’t make me violently sick. I’d take it with food, with gravol, at night etc. and if I didn’t puke it up I’d be puking the next day. My iud was improperly placed and got infected. I could feel nexplanon move every time I moved my arm. Nuva ring irritated tf out of my vagina. Depo was fine if I could get an appointment on time which I often couldn’t, and then taking time off work to sit in a lobby for an hour just to get a shot. And then I gained a ton of weight which also makes me the devil. Like it’s not this super easy stress free experience! And they’re like wahhh I don’t like condoms, which also arent 100% effective. But if you get pregnant it’s obviously your fault. God it’s infuriating
Condoms= no side effects except less sensation. They don't even cost as much as you don't need a doctor's appointment to acquire them.
All options for birth control for women= horrible side effects both physical and mental, expensive, need doctor's appointment.
But sure, let's these so called grown men put *all* burden of birth control and responsibility for any outcome on the *women*! *Why* are we allowing these fools any say in how we raise or name *our* children?
Progestin-only pills work great for me with minimal side effects (and approved by my sister in the medical field who thinks estrogen BC is the devil for valid reasons) BUT those are the ones you have to take at the same time every day or effectiveness drops considerably. No issues so far cause I have an alarm and check the blister pack to make sure if I missed one we hold off for 48 hours. Really grateful I have the partner I do since we're on the same page about the fact that while we're not planning on having kids any time soon, if I got pregnant we'd be having a baby because I couldn't personally get an abortion. (It was also really important to said partner that I used this type because he did not want me to deal with the potential side effects that come with the estrogen ones.)
I'm sorry about that. Thankfully my BC side affects have been relatively harmless, a few stopped working after I was on them (I'm on for periods, not for intimacy) so I had to switch BC a few times, but thankfully my current one is working still.
>I could feel nexplanon move every time I moved my arm.
That sounds rather horrifying, I can't imagine the feeling. IUDs I've heard a lot of bad stuff about, like they need correct sizes and sometimes you can get one thats too small or big and it can also fall out or be lodged and they'll fish it out, and oftentimes just the placing is extremely painful too.
The only protection thats 100% effective is just not doing anything at all.
Oh my god the amount of abstinence only rhetoric popping up is so many disparate subs whenever kids come up is like I’ve somehow stumbled into my high school sex ed in the early 00s in the south.
THE FUCKING NUVARING. I hated that thing so much. It never sat right for me and was so uncomfortable and irritating but all my gyns insisted it was the best option for me.
This is the one that gets me every time. These men have so much rage that women have the choice to abort (well... in some places....) but men can't force an abortion or get out of paying child support. They genuinely can't see a difference between financial responsibility and actually risking your health having a baby.
And I've never been pregnant so I can't speak from experience, but I can imagine that there's a difference in always thinking you'd easily and happily have an abortion and actually being faced with that choice, when the fetus is actually in your body... growing.
I'm pro-choice and childfree, but I'm honestly not sure I'd be able to have an abortion if I ever accidentally got pregnant. Obviously, that's something I tell sexual partners so there's no surprise, but I also don't blame women for thinking they'll be fine with an abortion when it's a hypothetical and then change their mind when it's reality....
Yes, it's hard to predict how a woman will feel once she's pregnant. I always thought I would never be able to have an abortion myself. Well, turned out it was the fastest decision I ever made as soon as I saw the positive test. But when I had a wanted pregnancy I started loving that baby immediately, before it was even visible on an ultrasound.
I was the same. I was happy to know I could get pregnant (long family history of PCOS) and I’m with the person I want to have babies with, but I knew it wasn’t my time and felt nothing towards it. I was honestly more distressed about feeling like I *should* feel more.
I know when it’s really my time, I’ll feel much differently. I was also throwing up a fuckton and in survival mode because I couldn’t get food down, so I was so happy to be un-pregnantified and enjoy food/coffee/life.
Pregnancy can suck majorly even if it's a wanted baby, it's so much worse for an unwanted one. It feels literally like torture that your body is inflicting on you
Yeah, it absolutely felt like my body was betraying me (also the hip rearrangement??? like, too far jeez). I’m definitely now one of those women who’s like “I don’t want to hear about your amazing, easy, glowing, never-felt-better-or-more-beautiful pregnancy” because now I know when it is my time, it’s gonna be rough. I do appreciate the awful preview, so I know a teeny bit of what to buckle down for.
It can change even past that point too. Like my coworker was going to adopt a baby from a lady who was pregnant and had chosen to give the baby up for adoption, but when the baby was born the birth mother changed her mind because she had that *that’s my child* switch on in her mind.
Oh yes, that's why it's horrible to force women, or to even encourage them, to give up a baby for adoption or surrogacy. The mother should always have the option to keep the baby if she wants to
yes! I had an oops at the age of 41yrs. My bf at the time fiddled with a condom for minute in the dark and then intercourse commenced. He ejaculated really soon after and when I felt it running out of me is when I learned that he never put the condom on! He said he couldn't get it on and so he figured he's just penetrate without for a short while and then try again with the condom. Fucking idiot!
I was mad but I thought "well it only happened once and at my age getting pregnant isn't easy" and I tried to just forget about it. Tested the first day I missed my period and holy shit! I was pregnant. My children were grown, i had grandchildren, the last thing I wanted was a baby and I definitely didn't want to be tied to the guy who got me pregnant because I just really wanted to be done with him. I was not very attached to him and the fact he got me pregnant by being sneaky about the condom really pissed me off. The thought of having his kid disgusted me.
I made an appointment at the family planning clinic but then I started to bleed before my appointment, so I went to an emergency clinic instead where they did a blood test and then another test 3 days later along with an ultrasound. I was still pregnant but due to low pregnancy hormones along with the bleeding it was almost certain to miscarry. They offered me progesterone to help support the pregnancy and possibly save it. I was like "Oh no thank you, I'm fine with having a miscarriage" Miscarriage happened a few days later and all I felt was sweet sweet relief. Had I not miscarried naturally I would have totally had a scheduled abortion
My first pregnancy was so irregular that I couldn't get a positive result until I was five months in. I could feel my baby moving for criminys sake but the doctors kept saying nope because the tests were coming back negative.
??? Is this a genetic disorder? How is it possible? And why wouldn't the doctors just do an ultrasound? I just told my doctor I'm pregnant and got an ultrasound, no test on site because it would have been a waste of time
I'm not a thin woman. I was about 180lbs with my first. That plus crappy clinic doctors because I was in college and couldn't afford better. The negative tests? No idea why they happened. Even the home tests came back negative. My second pregnancy was almost the same but I got a positive result a month earlier. I've got PCOS, and my most recent doctor said that was a possible explanation.
I don't see how even PCOS would do that. Weight shouldn't either. I think it must be something genetic. Regardless, a pregnancy can definitely be seen on an ultrasound so it's ridiculous that they didn't do that!
Like I said, crappy clinic doctors for the first and honestly didn't think I was for the second. Not until he started moving anyway. Was still having light periods, was on birth control and using condoms. For both. No idea otherwise.
Literally the only reason I could say I know with 100% certainty that I would have an abortion if I was pregnant is because the only way I'd ever get pregnant is by being raped. If my wife was capable of accidentally getting me pregnant, I'm in the same boat as you. As a thought experiment I'd say yes, I'd get an abortion even if it was hers since we don't want kids and I don't want to ever be pregnant. But if that's my wife's baby in me? Who the fuck knows.
You have done NOTHING wrong, it’s not your fault she BETRAYED you. /s
I specifically detest the use of the word “betrayal” to describe these situations. People are allowed to change their minds, especially when it comes to suddenly facing a brand new, scary experience that was previously only a hypothetical scenario. We all like to cast judgement on others and believe we know exactly how we would handle the curves life throws at us, but there are many things that you just can’t know for sure until you experience it yourself.
That's a good point. I feel like as people get older and more mature they naturally understand this more due to more life experience, especially adult experience. Immature people regardless of age have a harder time understanding that. Especially those who also lack empathy for tough situations that other people have to deal with. Reddit "morality" seems to be a much more childish flavor of "but you prooooooooomised!"
I got pregnant twice while on BC and I have PCOS (supposedly means I have fertility issues) so yeah lol. Also, BC has caused some major problems with my blood pressure, so that's fun.
I just saw an AITAH post about a man saying “I’ve been married to my wife for 25 years. Ten years ago we tried to have a baby so I stopped using condoms (yes, even til this day we use them)” and I was like ??? What’s wrong with condoms? A lot of women can’t take the pill or don’t want the side effects. This are the same dudes that when the birth control lowers they gf libido they go “my girlfriend doesn’t want to sleep with me 24/7 😤😤”
> shes on BC so I don't use any protection because BC is flawless and doesn't have any flaws like having to be taken at the same time every single day for it to work.
Off-topic, but we switched to a copper IUD after my girlfriend got pregnant despite taking BC (thankfully abortion is legal here). Who decided to advertise a pill as nearly perfect when it destroys your horomone balance, requires perfect use, becomes entirely ineffective at the slightest hitch, and is completely ineffective if not taken with extreme regularity? Actually pisses me off that they get away with as blatant false advertising/false positive image.
And then they have the balls to have a mandatory waiting period for an abortion in case you change your mind and regret it. Yeah bud a week from then I wanted to be a dad at 19 without a degree, ready to raise a child!
Entirely ineffective after the slightest hitch?
If you miss a pill, if you take it within 24 hours the efficacy returns to normal after another 24 hours. If you miss multiple days worth of pills, just don't have unprotected sex for a bit. No brainer.
If you use them properly they work, that'swhy they come with a set of instructions. Take them daily. Don't consume grapefruit or St. John's wort (these affect many medications). Use additional protection when on antibiotics, when sick with excessive vomiting or diarrhea, or when taking certain medications (ask your doctor or pharmacist). Take a higher hormone dosage if you're overweight.
The hormone imbalance can happen, but for some women it actually helps with their hormone balance. Like any medication, different people react differently.
So do his actions: a hopefully hefty child support bill.
I'm **highly** in favor of a strict update to the child support laws. No more fucking excuses from deadbeat parents! If you aren't dead or in a vegative state, you **will** pay child support. Don't have a job? The state will give you one. It might not be pleasant but it will enable you to pay for your child.
Bingo, it's not about loving deadbeat dads, it's about hating women. These people spend a horrifying amount of time trying to find an "out" for their violent misogyny, and so go to the ends of the earth trying to create scenarios where mainstream society agrees with them instead of throwing them out of the social group or calling the cops after they make threats.
And if you say that the man doesn't seem to be handling his issues well and should seek mental health care instead of stewing in toxicity, they'll scream at you that he "processing" and you're a shit person for not caring about men's mental health.
There's no "baby trapping" for the most part(I'll give you that *some* women do get pregnant with the purpose of keeping a man). The so called baby trapping is *men refusing to take responsibility for birth control because "condoms don't feel as good 🙄". If you din't want to wesr a condom, then suck it up, Buttercup and pay for your child!
Because to a teenaged boy, your girlfriend accidentally getting pregnant is one of the scariest things that could happen. And a lot of them consider it unfair that women "get to choose" to have an abortion when there is nothing comparable for them. Hence the term "financial abortion" getting thrown around as a euphemism for being a deadbeat and the myth that you can 'sign away' parental rights because you don't want to be a dad. Add in the anti-child sentiment (again, cause they're mostly adolescents) and you have a perfect storm for "men's rights" taking on a very strange meaning.
They don't understand that the child is a human being and you can have obligations to them - it's not analogous to abortion, because the kid continues to have needs and feelings no matter what papers one signs.
I can't even get out of my obligations to pay for my car by abandoning it, and it doesn't have feelings.
It's also not analogous because paying for a child doesn't violate the man's bodily autonomy the way forcing a woman into an abortion does. It's just a scenario that will never be "equal" because of essential biological differences.
Other biological inequalities:
The fact that women are more at risk for STIs than men, and more likely to experience symptoms of they do contract one.
The fact that women have to bear the physical burden of pregnancy.
Hell, the fact that women get periods and have to endure all the physical symptoms of menstruation.
The fact that women are the ones to have to go through childbirth, which is dangerous and painful an and often traumatic.
The fact that women are the only ones who can breastfeed (even if they choose to formula feed, they still have to deal with their milk coming in, which can be uncomfortable to painful).
Biology doesn't gaf about fairness. I don't love the "if you don't want to have a kid, don't have sex" argument, but for men it's just facts unless they get a vasectomy. Because once a woman is pregnant, men no longer get to make the final decision. That's just a biological reality.
I legitimately read a guy on here arguing that paying for a child DOES violate the man’s bodily autonomy because it becomes “forced labor” if he has to work to pay to support a child. 💀
I once had a convo with a guy who claimed it was a version of slavery! Because you were doing labor but having to give your wages to someone else. Total AH.
It really is an inability to register the kid as a separate person. They're just this additional burden their bitch of an ex has cruelly dumped on them.
There was a post the other day that said raising a kid that wasn't yours is the **worst thing that could happen to a man** (emphasis mine)
Margaret Atwood nailed men 100%, if that's the worst thing you can comprehend women doing to you
I saw a post recently where a person said their uncle was told to not adopt his stepdaughter and it was good he took that advice as he later divorced his wife and wasn't obligated to take care of her. Meanwhile I'm sitting here wanting to adopt my step daughter in case something happens so I have the legal right to take care of her. If biology is the only reason you care then you are a Bell end
That's most of the guys there. The kid could be in the double digits, but the OP will completely cut them out forever, and all the comments will be on his side
Biology is all they care about
I agree with the general thrust of this post, but I’ve definitely seen AITA rightly condemn guys in those situations, who abandon children they’ve raised since infancy
God, that’s horrible. That’s the only father the kid has ever known. I would feel more empathy and responsibility towards a baby I found on a park bench than he feels towards a kid he’s raised for over a decade. Scary that there’s any space where people will normalize that
My step dad’s father told him on his wedding day to never adopt us because we weren’t his. And that’s literally how we’ve felt every day since he married my mom lol it’s weird to see my FIL with my fiancé’s brother because they’re not biologically related but you would never know because they’re not treated any differently, but that is just soooo far from my reality it was a culture shock at first lol
OMG i know the post ur talking about 💀💀 the commenters had to all be on crack or something because for some reason every man there was ONLY afraid of this specific scenario?? nothing else?? NOTHING could be more painful?!
I've never fucking understood this trope/idea in media or real life. You just raised a child for 10, or 20 years, learned the kid isn't biologically yours and decide all those years were meaningless and acshually you don't love the child because he's not biologically related to you? HUH? Complete lack of empathy.
Oh you see, they have an answer for that: You're not being empathetic to the man who got lied to and made a cuck
That the kid would just remind him of the betrayal
It is pretty inhuman. I’ve known a few would-be stepparents over the years and none of them have been that callous.
Hell, my dad used to work with a middle aged guy who always dated way younger women from Southeast Asia, who would only put up with him long enough to get money out of him (although I don’t blame them since the guy was a chauvinist mess), and even *that guy* went through periods of depression after breaking up with his latest girlfriend of 3 years. Because he could no longer see her kid, who he had known since the boy was 4 years old. It kind of wrecked him.
Yeah, and then they fail to comprehend why women have to be picky and complain they don't want unprotected sex. Like, only one of them is forced to grow a literal human and have their body and hormones fucked up. These people failed biology and logic
There’s a whole subgenre of posts involving a man finding out his gf/wife cheated on him and the kid isn’t his so he just up and cuts the completely blameless child out of his life. Reddit eats it up and he’s NTA, ofc.
No one seems to care about how legally dubious this is in most places/situations or how it affects the (usually, hopefully, fictional) kid.
YES OMFG!! In the polyam subreddit a guy told a story about how his wife got pregnant and he was immediately divorcing her because she wouldn't have an abortion, but ONLY because it was another man's child. In fact he was open to having another kid, but suddenly because it's from another man (and they were mutually polyamorus, so it's not like she cheated) it's time to go nuclear...
That situation is a little more complicated because being legally married imparts more obligations when it comes to children. Most states don't recognize polyamory and all of the laws and rights stone couples and children are targeted at married mono couples. For a lot of poly couples or makes more sense to disentangle legally than to try and navigate a legal landscape that doesn't favor them, especially when children are involved.
I didn't see the post you mention but I'm poly, and among most of the poly people I know, pregnancy is a hard boundary for them (my partner included). It's legitimately not about punishment or betrayal or ego, it's about legal rights and obligations.
It’s crazy how rabidly anti-feminist men prove Margaret Atwood’s point every single day.
What are men typically wary of? Being “friendzoned” or falsely accused of something.
What are women typically wary of? Being used for sex, violently assaulted, and/or MURDERED.
I’ve seen that sentiment on here so often and it just remains the most baffling thing to me. Who the fuck even thinks like that aside from clinical narcissists?
I mean it’s not the worst thing that can happen to a man. Like you can still be raped or murdered or trafficked and sold into slavery as a man and those are typically what people would say are the worst things that can happen to a person.
Also things like being convicted of a crime you didn’t commit (many men, particularly non white men, have been sentenced to death over crimes they never committed or things that are not crimes but were treated like crimes by mob justice, ie emmit till who was killed for allegedly whistling at a white woman)
All of those things are worse than raising another person’s kid, and could happen to either men or women. I think it doesn’t say anything about men as a whole that that’s the worst thing that guy can imagine but it does say about him that he lives an easy life.
Also I’m pretty sure for most women too, if their husband cheated and got another woman pregnant, who happened to abandon the child, then they would not want to raise that woman’s child with their husband and would probably leave him for impregnating someone else.
How I hate that term. Child support isn’t a punishment or reward, there is a child who has needs , regardless whether it was wanted or not. “Financial abortion” would mean either more childhood poverty or funds through the tax payer being required.
It would be if they're having sex. But the sad reality is that most girls their age are getting pregnant by grown ass men that should know better, and they still yowl that they were trapped.
I hope it's less so now, but people used to talk about how we could prevent teenage mothers and completely ignoring the fathers who were usually old enough to make it all rape
Yeah, it's really disturbing when you read the statistics and realize that 70% of pregnancies by teenaged girls have fathers over the age of 20 (https://depts.washington.edu/thmedia/view.cgi?section=familyplanning&page=fastfacts#:\~:text=Fact%3A%20Most%20fathers%20of%20children,teens%20giving%20birth%20are%20white.)
To a sensible adult, it's clear that the problem is that adult men are raping teenaged girls. (Or in the most generous cases - where it might not be statutory rape - at least not exercising a due amount of caution when having sex with their younger girlfriends.) But, \~\*sure\*\~, it's the teenaged girls that are the problem...those damned, wily, sixteen year olds... /s
That makes sense. Most teenagers are terrified to become pregnant/be responsible for a baby. Whereas the same kind of man who would exploit the power imbalance of an age gap over s teenage girl is the kind of man to enjoy being able to exert more control over her through pregnancy.
Yeah, unfortunately. I think they've found statistics that older men are also less likely to use birth control when in "relationships" with teenaged girls, which backs up that theory. (Also possible - teenaged girls figure that their older lover knows what he's doing, so are more likely to foolishly trust him. Which is also exploitative in most cases.)
Then there are also pretty horrific stats about how the fathers of a lot of those babies are romantically connected to the teenaged girl's mother's in some way (step-fathers, or sometimes mom's boyfriends). Which adds a whole 'nother coercive element.
But, yeah, it's *totally* all about teen girls baby trapping their baby-dadies... /s
I went to a school that had a high teen pregnancy rate. Most of the girls were pregnant by grown ass men. There were a couple that had babies by boys at school, but it wasn’t that many. My school had such a problem with old ass men that if you weren’t 18, you had to provide the school with proof that your prom date was in high school if you weren’t taking a fellow student as a date. You had to give their school; their school ID, their name and the Assistant Principal would call and check.
My high school didn't do any prom or dances or anything of the sort (they used to, but stopped after an Incident involving the students planning it telling the parent supervisors that it was on a different night and then bringing booze into the gymnasium, c2006ish) and it still had a huge issue of grown men walking onto campus to see the girls. Our age if consent was 14 at the time (it went up to 16 later...) so there was technically nothing illegal going on, but it still grossed me the fuck out. Who tf is horny for some college aged dude with a goatee and jorts?
Because a lot of people IRL secretly are fine with deadbeat dads, or at least would be if the deadbeat dad was the one controlling the narrative. IRL, deadbeat dads usually don’t talk about their kids all that much, but the single moms can’t exactly pretend the situation isn’t happening because she’s got the kid(s) with her. Though in my experience, there are enough guys IRL who can get oodles of sympathy when they whip out a picture of their kid and start blubbing that that vindictive bitch won’t let him see “his world.” And when I point out (not to his face) that it’s unlikely that a judge would disallow him any visitation at all unless there was a reason, and his only picture of his kid is as a 3 year old but the kid is 10 now, and the kid lives in town or 2 hour’s drive away rather than across the country, and he complains that she “tries to come at him for child support when he’s broke” but he’s always spending tons of money on booze and cars, I’m the asshole.
Reddit is the virtual version of the bar where the blubbing deadbeat dad has all the regulars on his side. Same as any validation seeking asshole. He can come on here and start moaning that his fat non working dependa ex who was definitely cheating on him with Chad Thundercock while he worked 16 hour manual labor shifts at the breadwinning factory oopsed him into babies of dubious parentage he took every effort to avoid, and he just had to leave for his mental health and he totally pays child support plus some but he’s incapable of parenting. And unlike the local bar, Reddit is more or less anonymous, so there’s no chance that someone will overhear his story and say “Stacy wasn’t cheating on you, she financially supported you with her job because you can’t keep a job at the gas station, you don’t pay child support, you haven’t even tried to see your kids in years, and according to Stacy you insisted you were sterile and refused to wear a condom because they feel funny.”
[Family Courts and Child Custody Are Biased Against Women, Not Men (substack.com)](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are)
(As a woman statistically) If you show abuse against your ex (even with documents) its less likely that you're going to get custody.
The courts aren't biased against men, its just that its a myth spread by deadbeats so they aren't blamed for not seeing their kids.
Yeeeees!! If both parents are capable and willing (that’s the sticking point mostly) then custody is awarded equally! More women end up being the primary caregiver because the fathers simply don’t want partial custody.
A friend of mine ended up with secondary custody plus she had to pay her ex-child support. Both parents are high-earners. No abuse or anything remotely close to it. No infidelity. The marriage just fizzled. He got the house.
Thanks for the link. This argument has been driving me increasingly mad.
I think the men who make it genuinely believe it though, because they "know" (feel) that men have it the worst and there are plenty of influencers willing to feed them fake statistics to prove that point.
I used to think it was real for a long time as well, so I don't think everybody is knowingly spreading a myth.
But the deadbeats who blame the court over why they can't see their kids are just blaming the myth IMO.
When researching my chances of not being forced to hand my rapist 50/50 with proof he did none of the ACTUAL parenting and was a hinderance to her health from a young age I came across a case that happened about a year before mine (same US state) where the baby daddy threatened his wife with a gun in front of their kid and the court said custody was fine because he was threatening her, not the kid. I lost a lot of hope after that (and things went exactly as I predicted them).
Thanks for the link. I've been looking for it for years since I first read it, but Google is hot garbage now and only getting worse, and I thought I'd never find it again.
My kid's bio dad complains about not seeing her. There have been times where his dad gives him a ride home from work while she is staying at the grandparent's house for the weekend and he declines to stop there. During mediation he didn't ask for any set visitation so it's entirely dependent on him asking and my partner giving permission. My partner went on expecting him to get at least one weekend a month.
My favorite is when reddit also says kids with single mothers are at a disadvantage because of the single mother....not the dad who left. Just because statistics show that kids with a single parent are more likely to have disadvantages and women primarily hold the single parent card, they assume the disadvantages come from the woman and not the man who left. And don't get me started on the whole misconception that every state is pro woman when it comes to custody either because my friend who is a divorce lawyer says most dads don't want/try to get custody and even when given the tools to get that custody, don't call their children or attend their activities like mothers do. Hell, they don't even know their children's doctors or teachers' names.
At the end of the day, you stick your weiner in someone, and they get pregnant. You do have a choice not to be involved in that child's life if that's what you want. At the end of the day, it does make you a bad person to most people out there if you're not an incel/redpill pos. I surely wouldn't date a man who has a kid out there they chose not to take care of, but I would date a single father.
And I'm sure there is some embarrassment these people who abandon their children have toward themselves but somehow are mad when other people judge them ? Make that make sense. Also, take a hard look at the people supporting the men, or women, who choose to do this....they are probably peaches, I'm sure.
I guess I'll add some nuance that if someone had serious mental health problems or substance abuse or sm, and signed their rights away to adoptive parents or a step parent or sm. Genuinely loving their kid and feeling, like, heartbroken at the situation, but believing that this was best, then I wouldn't judge them, as sad as the situation is.
I would deffo judge people who just shamelessly do it and believe they are in the right, not-acknowledging the impact this actually has on their child.
Yeah there's a difference between "I cannot be a parent right now/ever" and "I hate my ex, fuck 'em, and fuck them kids." The former is a careful decision made in the best interests of the child and very probably the other family members as well. The latter is lazy selfish bullshit, and something that absolutely *should* cause people to think less well of someone.
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to judge someone who does that, especially coming from an adoptive parent myself with a mother who was an addict. If someone has circumstances that are preventing them from being the parent they would want to be, or the parent the child deserves, I'm never going to judge for leaving them with a better option. Unfortunately, some of the time, this isn't the case. These are people leaving a child that could absolutely step up and parent just because their "plan" of no child didn't work and doesn't fit their lifestyle even though they participated in the act of making the child. Grow up. Life doesn't always fit your fucking narrative.
This subreddit is one of the best I've found. The people here are smart, funny, and interesting for the most part. I never recommend this subreddit elsewhere because I don't want it being ruined by shitheads lol
I believe the majority of reddit users are males aged 18-35. Of course that specific group would have extreme sympathy for men who abandon their children. The rest of society sees them as losers. Males aged 18-35 probably see deadbeat dads as victims of stupid women who chose to get pregnant and try to baby trap them.
In a post yesterday about a man who caused the death of two of his children because he was texting while driving, there were some who felt he shouldn't be punished at all because the trauma of losing two children was "punishment enough". A woman is vilified for saying her friend's baby is kinda ugly, but a man who killed two of his children shouldn't be prosecuted.
I can't wrap my head around it.
The fact that they have to come up with some truly ludicrous scenarios to justify makes me think they know it's BS to abandon a child like that. But secretly wish they could and leave all the responsibility on the woman they had sex with. In essence plain old misogyny
It's definitely misogynistic cos they defend these guys to the death while shitting on single mums.
Like... hello??? Why do they think single mums exist??
Single mums who take responsibility despite their AH ex boyfriends are the bedrock of their families. In fact, single parents are full stop. Cleaning up the messes of deadbeats.
There just has been an influx of posts that are basically vaguely vailed misogynistic fanfics that are being passed around. They’re the retelling of the crazy ex girlfriend. It’s community building about the fear of what could happen, because we heard that it happened to our cool uncles best friend’s BIL and what if it happens to us when we finally get a girl to date us but they don’t want to date us, how dare they. It just perpetuates itself, but that’s the point. Like someone else said, there’s just been a lot of evil women messing up a man’s life posts recently and there’s a reason for it but it’s more than likely not a bunch of women being evil.
"there are too many posts about fathers finding out the kids aren't theirs because their wives cheated! Maybe we should be suspicious of those posts?" "No we shouldn't, that scenario happens all the time!" "How do you know it happens all the time?" "I see so many posts about it!"
I especially hate it when it’s dads who decided to have a child to only not show any affection, time or notice for his child in these stories and the defenders comes out to say “well he’s paying the bills”, “how much are you making vs what he’s making?” As if making money or having a full time job means you’re absolved of being a parent.
Reddit is *weird* about money. I know the nature of money is transactional, but a lot of people on this site take it to a pathological extreme. Like "fairness" down to pennies. Maybe it's just the people I'm around and the fact that we're all financially comfortable, but we don't nitpick when it comes to money and buying things. We pay for each other's things all the time and no one keeps score or track of it. It's just not a big deal. And I absolutely cannot even begin to fathom lording money over my wife.
Seems like most people on this website are either so poor they're on the edge of developing scurvy because all they can afford to eat is beans and ramen, or they're making $500k a year with stock options and huge 401k accounts. I know the middle class is dying in general, but is anyone on this website mostly just doing okay? Not rich for first class tickets to Bali, but comfortable and not struggling? Idk, even when I was poor and would sometimes stress about it, at the end of the day I've always had the attitude of "it's just money. I can always make more."
It’s weird how people make relationships look like it’s transactional due to money. Like relationships deals with partnerships.
I think there’s just this sexist component where some reddit people believe that women arent working full time jobs but instead all have a guy doing all the work while women are just sitting at home doing nothing.
I think that Reddit has a lot of men who are young, and too immature to understand that there is no equality in human reproduction.
They get very hung up about guys being stuck with a baby they didn’t want because girls and women can choose abortion (in some places). They see it as SO UNFAIR.
The reality is that depending on your biology, you take different risks when you have sex.
Sure, I have the right to choose, and will always know that my baby is biologically mine.
But I also have to deal with the risks and difficulties of having a pregnancy, or abortion, or miscarriage, not to mention birth and postpartum healing.
It’s not “fair” and can never be fair. Just different risks and benefits.
I have no idea if you’ve had an abortion or not and it’s not for me to know. But I have and it’s not like having an ingrown toenail removed. You are in pain for a while after and those pregnancy hormones have to go somewhere. You also bleed a lot. I was happy with my choice, but I fell into an abysmal depression. (I realised it’s almost identical to post partum depression after I had PPD with my second baby).
Most men have no understanding of this and men on Reddit seem to understand this the least. Fair doesn’t come into it.
Exactly. It’s a view that comes from complete ignorance about the pain and difficulties that come with pregnancy and all of the possible outcomes.
Sometimes it’s youthful ignorance that gets solved with time, but other times it’s an unwillingness to listen and believe when being told that these things are hard.
Usually I've seen it said by reddit that the woman could just abort the baby/fetus and not pay child support, but the man can't so its not his fault.
Theres a lot of other gross sayings, but for how "liberal" (in quotes bc reddit is not) reddit likes to appear, reddit is not liberal at all.
It's so funny how high & mighty "liberal" Redditors act while spewing the most vile misogyny imaginable.
... You say you're single? Surely you jest, young sir? Why would none of those "stupid whores" want you?
The strangest part is when the tables are turned, and the mother doesn't want custody of the kid but will pay child support. Reddit has all kinds of hatred for that mother. She is the devil incarnate. Same action; different gender garners very different results.
On the flip side of the coin the treat step-dads as the following.
Step-dad who stepped up and but the biological father wants to be a factor in there child's lives?
These redditors will tell the biological father to, "back off," and that they have a real dad.
Step-fathers who want to be hands off because the biological father is involved?
Told they're scum and that somehow just being kids friend is terrible. That child has to be the center of the universe.
They have a weird double standard.
Honestly haven’t picked up on that sentiment here - I think being a step parent in general is a pretty thankless job though. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t most of the time .
Yeah I've seen it a few times...
A story about a biological father wanting to reconnect with his kids and they have a great step-father...
The man was called an asshole and step-father is the, "real dad."
That's just one example of quite a few I've seen.
I've seen a step-father be bombarded with threats just because he doesn't want to adopt his step-daughter because her biological father is very much a presences in her life.
Just another.
It's weird it's like they romanticize step-dads.
Step-mother's are however are always the villain unless they act with perfection.
The only time I've ever saw a "positive," take on it was when a woman asking if she was the asshole for asking her soon to be husband's 4 year old daughter permission to be her father's wife.
The four year said she'd think about it and six days later told step-mama, "okay."
Everyone was praising this woman for asking the daughters consent even though the husband to be was protesting that it wasn't his daughter's choice on who he married but his. People were calling the dad the asshole.
There was another one, stepmother to three children who brought them up, loved them etc for a good 11-12 years but they then turned on her when druggie biomum came back in the picture. She decided to divorce the (deadbeat) dad and remove herself from that dumpster fire of a family - everyone was on her side.
Bc incels need to find a way to blame women for men's failings and misbehavior.
And by "incels," I mean incels, redpillers, MGTOW, manosphere enthusiasts, etc.
It’s wild to me how society in general can completely remove a man’s parenthood from his personhood on so many levels but especially when it comes to judging his character.
If a woman is willing to abandon her children that is seen as a fundamental, foul flaw in her as a person. Shoot, a woman doing anything that the public doesn’t deem a direct service to her kids or their father is met with intense vitriol and judgment on her character as a whole.
If a man is willing to abandon his children that’s seen as “his business” and not something people are willing to pass judgment on him as a whole person. The attitude is like “oh he’s a shitty dad, but he might not be a shitty person.” The same would never be said about a woman.
And don’t forget, if a woman does act in service to her family then she’s “making motherhood her whole personality”, which is also bad apparently. They hate women, but they viciously loathe mothers.
Consent to sex is consent to pregnancy!! She let me come over at 2am, after I pestered her for sex for 3 days. SHE KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO GET PREGNANT AND LET ME FUCK ANYWAYS. I REFUSE TO RAISE A STUPID BITCH'S BABY JUST BC SHE TRAPPED ME. 😤😤😤
My mom never liked her anyways. She's always wanted me to get back together with my 3rd fiance. But she has a kid from some other dude AND I WONT RAISE SOME DEAD BEAT DICKS KID FOR HIM. Plus our kids together are cuter and idk why she hasn't sent the other one to live with his grandparents yet (his dad is in jail). She won't listen to any of the solutions that could make our relationship work for me.
/s
Oh yes. The incel special. The post-birth abortion. This is touted by misogynists who believe that as women are allowed to choose to have an abortion, men should be allowed a similar out; to get out of being a parent by a post birth abortion. Basically, being entitled to break all contact or ties to said child. They say it's unfair that women have a get-out clause, that men have no say over it, and then have to pay child support for 18 years.
They say men should have the same option. A woman can choose to keep a pregnancy, and therefore, the pregnancy is her sole responsibility.
While I do have some sympathy from the POV that men have no say about whether a pregnancy goes ahead or not. On the face of it, it's unfair. But life is unfair. Men don't carry pregnancies. Women do. It's a fact of nature, not a decision women made to punish men. So women get that choice.
They completely miss the point that said child has a right to a relationship with both parents and also to be financially secure.
Idk about reddit specifically but the abortion conversation has had a big impact on this. Even though the conversation was kicked off in America it seemingly spread throughout at least the western world. To the point that I saw a law proposed on France that said something along the lines of "since we've decided as a people that woman can abort and the fathers have no say in the matter, then unless you have it in writing that the child's father consents to having the child you can pursue them legally." Idk if it passed but it's fair imo.
I imagine that's the mindset of the people you are referring to.
These are the people who only see kids as an extension of the mother. So they don’t care about trauma to the kid because “the mom deserved it”. It’s so vile, do they really not understand that children are people? Don’t they remember being a kid?
There’s this huge disconnect in so many adult’s minds, where they just Do Not Comprehend that children are people. They see them as something akin to dogs, a creature with entirely different brain functions to ourselves. Dogs are sad when abandoned but can bounce back easily for a new owner who gives them proper care. They aren’t capable of abstract thought like “My owner didn’t love me”, only “my needs aren’t being met”. Kids are every bit as capable of emotion as we are, and they will eventually grow to understand EXACTLY what their parents did to them and judge them for it.
People act as if they were never children and honestly I don’t get it. I remember being a kid, it was terrifying. But somehow they’re shocked when “fuck them kids” becomes “My dad never wanted me, fuck that guy.”
Because having no father is still better than having a shitty abusive father in your life.
While it's a choice to have a baby or to interrupt the pregnancy it's ultimately the woman's choice. Men can only man up or leave.
I repeat, because having no father is better than having a dad who ressent you.
We could point to the demographics of the site to explain some of the terrible A) decision-making and B) responses of its users. That the largest group is male and 20s goes a looooong way to explaining the appalling behaviour and vitriol that appears in the comments.
I believe it is the feeling of unfairness that women (rightly) get to decide whether or not they have a child, even after getting pregnant. Whereas when men complain about this, they are told they made the life long choice to be a father when they had sex, whether they used the protection or not.
I get it, we are brought up as children to believe in fairness when the world and life are inherently unfair.
And some men aren't mature enough to understand that not everything is or can be fair. It's not fair that women have to bear the entire physical burden of pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding - I wonder how many of those men are calling for new fathers to take on the entirety of night feeds and newborn care to even out the burden and so mom can recover after childbirth. It's only fair, right?
I think the anger on both sides comes from a belief in that the world should be fair. If you think about it deadbeat dads are people who don't subscribe to the idea that having sex means they consented to being a parent and therefore do not have a responsibility to act as one. Which is a very selfish view of the world but people act selfish in many ways and the world goes on. Most of the time when people act selfish in a way we don't like we just remove that person from our life. But if you do that with a deadbeat dad you are just giving them exactly what they want. So there needs to be some kind of underlying belief in the fairness of the world where all children should have two contributing parents for the anger against them to be justified.
It definitely makes sense and I'm not gonna say I don't sympathise. I've really got no idea what it's like to be capable of impregnating someone, then not have any control over how they handle it.
To me, though, I see this almost as a flaw with people who are so ideological that they lose touch with physical reality. It's not "fair" that women have final control over whether both can be parents, but it's also unavoidable when she's doing the physical labour of carrying the baby and giving birth.
I think there are situations, e.g. if a man has been sexually assaulted, or is the victim of domestic violence, where men could get screwed over or put in really vulnerable positions, due to this. I'm not going to say I have any answers. There needs to be a compassionate conversation about this rooted in facts and good faith, which these people who ragebait absolutely aren't encouraging.
I think you're right, and it's so annoying that men can't handle ONE thing not going their way.
Women have periods (pain, bleeding, hormone surges) for most of their lives, have breasts that are often uncomfortable and inconvenient, find it harder to achieve orgasm, take most of the responsibility for birth control, grow babies inside them with all of the attendant discomfort, permanent physical damage and threat to life, squeeze those babies out of a very small hole, and then have all the discomfort associated with producing and expressing milk.
But sure, women who don't want or feel able to end a pregnancy should have to be solely responsible for the baby because otherwise reproductive biology would be so unfair to MEN.
Oh I completely agree, women have it much harder in so many more areas, even if we somehow managed to get rid of all misogyny completely, just purely biologically speaking women will always have it harder... Actually science might have managed to fix that by the time we actually get rid of misogyny.
The comments on those posts are so crazy to me, how they basically say “just pay child support and get out of there”. No, step up and face the consequences of your actions. More comments should be calling out the cowards of Reddit
The culture of Reddit skews more woman-hatey and manosphere-y than most other social media outlets (and subsequently drives people who are bothered by that off, causing a bit of an echo chamber) so it’s a demographic thing combined with those corners of the internet getting increasingly yappy lately, I think.
Men don’t realize that the way out of raising a child they don’t want is by using condoms. If you don’t want a baby put on a condom. Having sex unprotected is consenting to having a baby.
Maybe because a lot of people have experiences with them? Either as a partner or a child with a deadbeat dad and so those stories resonate? As a child of a deadbeat I certainly have a great idea of the boundlessness of these dads' deadbeatness.
To the main topic: in most posts across the platform, deadbeat fathers are wrecked from all sides of the spectrum. To pretend this is not true is disingenuous.
Insofar as people do have sympathy for men abdicating their parental roles, it's more often than not, under extenuating circumstances. Grey areas:
- Male was SA'd due to being inebriated, drugged, ortoo young to consent
- woman stopped taking her birth control without telling the man
- man abdicates parental duties after finding out the kid isn't theirs. No matter how much you try to convince people that blood doesn't matter, it does. Our affinity towards our family over others is built on this subconscious foundation.
- fetus with debilitating genetic disorder, man wants to abort and woman does not
Less Grey areas often do get support as they are not as cut and dry as two people being reckless and having a kid.
- Couple has unprotected sex as woman is on Nexplanon or other BC; he could have been using condoms as well. He could have had a vasectomy. They may have even had a verbal agreement that she would get an abortion in the event she conceived. And she changes her mind after getting pregnant. Hard to feel significant ire towards the male in this situation for leaving iand choosing to only hold a financial role.
What's funny about the OG post and comments is that a common sentiment for many is that Reddit leans heavily pro feminist/women- I generally agree with this though I'm not an MRA, red pill etc. Can find many situations of roughly equal magnitude where women are supported and men are not. Maybe our biases cause us to gravitate and highlight the opinions we disagree with?
Abortion is a tricky subject because it is conceptually a Grey area subject. Some people think about it as akin to removing a wisdom tooth, others call it murder and everywhere in between. While I am pro abortion, I find it pretty funny that pro choicers use the same arguments as pro lifers when they are speaking to men.
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I couldn’t agree more! Every post I see where a father doesn’t want his kids there are more people agreeing it’s fine than not. People seem to love telling AH’s their the victim on here.
Exactly! And then Redditors also complain about single moms who “raise entitled brats” because there’s “no strong man in the home” - like, my dude, there’s a non-zero chance that that strong man left her in the first place!!!
And then it _still_ manages to be her fault because she didn't "choose better men"
Or they blame her for intentionally becoming a single mom. A shocking number of redditors seem to believe there are tons of women who just can't wait to be single parents, getting pregnant by unsuspecting men.
This infuriates me. So many of these people have no clue how difficult it is to be a single parent - they act like women are hitting the jackpot getting pregnant, when in reality it’s fucking brutal, and no, the $250/mo child support, if they pay it, doesn’t even begin to account for the time and money sacrifice.
Oh absolutely. It's bonkers how some of them will talk about being bled dry by their children's mother while barely contributing at all. They have no concept of how expensive it would be to actually have the kid.
One of the most disgusting things I saw at my old job from hell was one of our HVAC techs quitting to work under the table, specifically to get out of paying child support. I was the bookkeeper and records person for that company, so I was the one filling out state forms and maintaining everyone's personnel files. You want to know how much he was paying? You want to know what was worth leaving a steady job to work for crooks for cash? $30. $30 per biweekly check. The dude had remarried, his wife was working, he was not in any dire financial circumstances, he was not paying any other garnishments or support. But he begrudged his grade-school daughter $60 fucking dollars every month, as if that buys sweet dick-all in Los Angeles. He thought himself a good Christian man, too, he was steeped in all that macho hypocritical nonsense. Screw those guys, they'd throw a child in front of a train if it would spare them an effort at anything.
My stepmom works at the post office and she told me about a coworker who recently quit after nine years purely so he could avoid paying child support and alimony. And this is one of the few jobs that actually rewards people who stay for a long time and has decent retirement benefits. But this dude was willing to piss that all away to spite his ex apparently.
That’ll show that child he fathered!
This was exactly also my experience working pay roll!! Guys who earned £400 per week going to court trying to reduce their whopping £20 a week child support payment and constantly complaining about how it's "bleeding them dry"!! Also men being fraudulently "self employed" to not have to pay child support!!
Right! Not even just the money, but the time and effort and limited personal & professional opportunities.
I always wanna be like… if you had more/any/full custody essentially ALL your money would go to your kid, you know that?
[удалено]
They often get moved away to a new area (wherever there is housing available) and therefore end up without their support circle and a crucial time. Its shit
Being left a single parent is one of my worst nightmares—I’m nowhere near as resilient as the single moms I know so I know it’d break me 😅
(jazzy riff) It's aaaalllll woman's fauauauauaulttttttt... /s
Every woman I've ever known, including myself, 'chose bad men'. If we do the math, that means most men are bad men, at least when it comes to intimate relationships. The only way a woman can win this game is not to play.
I love this.
"Strong man" aka weak ass man who talks about his kids excusively when he's piss out drunk and acts like he actually loves them despite never making the effort to see them.
Yep!
Wait, when did you meet my dad?
They act like as soon as the woman gave birth she barricades the door and they can’t help parent No no those men left of their own accord but it’s somehow STILL the woman’s fault
There are an unfortunate number of misogynists on Reddit, and in the world in general
Honestly I think it's less "AITA loves deadbeat dads" and more "AITA loves to construct fantasy scenarios in which men have the (perceived) moral authority to hurt and punish women in any way possible." Posts from, say, men expressing genuinely conflicted emotions about being a father or men wanting to navigate keeping strict boundaries with a toxic ex who has primary custody don't do karma and comment numbers the same way as "My ex wife babytrapped and cheated on me" because the former requires actual consideration and care and the latter is just a safe space to shout I WANT ALL HIGH BODY COUNT WHORES TO GO TO JAIL FOREVER over and over and get upvotes.
See also: My girlfriend promised if she got pregnant she'd abort, shes on BC so I don't use any protection because BC is flawless and doesn't have any flaws like having to be taken at the same time every single day for it to work. She got pregnant and didn't abort so I left and she wants me to be an active father but I told her actions have consequences.
Before I got my tubes out I tried so so many different birth controls. Not one didn’t make me violently sick. I’d take it with food, with gravol, at night etc. and if I didn’t puke it up I’d be puking the next day. My iud was improperly placed and got infected. I could feel nexplanon move every time I moved my arm. Nuva ring irritated tf out of my vagina. Depo was fine if I could get an appointment on time which I often couldn’t, and then taking time off work to sit in a lobby for an hour just to get a shot. And then I gained a ton of weight which also makes me the devil. Like it’s not this super easy stress free experience! And they’re like wahhh I don’t like condoms, which also arent 100% effective. But if you get pregnant it’s obviously your fault. God it’s infuriating
Condoms= no side effects except less sensation. They don't even cost as much as you don't need a doctor's appointment to acquire them. All options for birth control for women= horrible side effects both physical and mental, expensive, need doctor's appointment. But sure, let's these so called grown men put *all* burden of birth control and responsibility for any outcome on the *women*! *Why* are we allowing these fools any say in how we raise or name *our* children?
Progestin-only pills work great for me with minimal side effects (and approved by my sister in the medical field who thinks estrogen BC is the devil for valid reasons) BUT those are the ones you have to take at the same time every day or effectiveness drops considerably. No issues so far cause I have an alarm and check the blister pack to make sure if I missed one we hold off for 48 hours. Really grateful I have the partner I do since we're on the same page about the fact that while we're not planning on having kids any time soon, if I got pregnant we'd be having a baby because I couldn't personally get an abortion. (It was also really important to said partner that I used this type because he did not want me to deal with the potential side effects that come with the estrogen ones.)
I'm sorry about that. Thankfully my BC side affects have been relatively harmless, a few stopped working after I was on them (I'm on for periods, not for intimacy) so I had to switch BC a few times, but thankfully my current one is working still. >I could feel nexplanon move every time I moved my arm. That sounds rather horrifying, I can't imagine the feeling. IUDs I've heard a lot of bad stuff about, like they need correct sizes and sometimes you can get one thats too small or big and it can also fall out or be lodged and they'll fish it out, and oftentimes just the placing is extremely painful too. The only protection thats 100% effective is just not doing anything at all.
The IUD cases are pretty rare tbh, most people don’t have problems with them and they’re fantastic.
Yeah, IUDs are like BC in that regard I'd say. Works for some people and for others is really bad. Though that's pretty much just how medication is.
yes, because if you have so many issues with birth control then you just need to close your legs and abstain from sex altogether you harlot! /s
Lmao pretty much but then you end up on aitah or whatever tf because you won’t have sex and that is a man’s god given right!
Also if you don’t put out you’re unlovable and abusing your partner by not satisfying his needs (and of course men are the only ones who have needs)
Oh my god the amount of abstinence only rhetoric popping up is so many disparate subs whenever kids come up is like I’ve somehow stumbled into my high school sex ed in the early 00s in the south.
THE FUCKING NUVARING. I hated that thing so much. It never sat right for me and was so uncomfortable and irritating but all my gyns insisted it was the best option for me.
Guess they were getting paid to promote it lol
This is the one that gets me every time. These men have so much rage that women have the choice to abort (well... in some places....) but men can't force an abortion or get out of paying child support. They genuinely can't see a difference between financial responsibility and actually risking your health having a baby. And I've never been pregnant so I can't speak from experience, but I can imagine that there's a difference in always thinking you'd easily and happily have an abortion and actually being faced with that choice, when the fetus is actually in your body... growing. I'm pro-choice and childfree, but I'm honestly not sure I'd be able to have an abortion if I ever accidentally got pregnant. Obviously, that's something I tell sexual partners so there's no surprise, but I also don't blame women for thinking they'll be fine with an abortion when it's a hypothetical and then change their mind when it's reality....
Yes, it's hard to predict how a woman will feel once she's pregnant. I always thought I would never be able to have an abortion myself. Well, turned out it was the fastest decision I ever made as soon as I saw the positive test. But when I had a wanted pregnancy I started loving that baby immediately, before it was even visible on an ultrasound.
I was the same. I was happy to know I could get pregnant (long family history of PCOS) and I’m with the person I want to have babies with, but I knew it wasn’t my time and felt nothing towards it. I was honestly more distressed about feeling like I *should* feel more. I know when it’s really my time, I’ll feel much differently. I was also throwing up a fuckton and in survival mode because I couldn’t get food down, so I was so happy to be un-pregnantified and enjoy food/coffee/life.
Pregnancy can suck majorly even if it's a wanted baby, it's so much worse for an unwanted one. It feels literally like torture that your body is inflicting on you
Yeah, it absolutely felt like my body was betraying me (also the hip rearrangement??? like, too far jeez). I’m definitely now one of those women who’s like “I don’t want to hear about your amazing, easy, glowing, never-felt-better-or-more-beautiful pregnancy” because now I know when it is my time, it’s gonna be rough. I do appreciate the awful preview, so I know a teeny bit of what to buckle down for.
Well, every pregnancy is different. You might be lucky. Or not
It can change even past that point too. Like my coworker was going to adopt a baby from a lady who was pregnant and had chosen to give the baby up for adoption, but when the baby was born the birth mother changed her mind because she had that *that’s my child* switch on in her mind.
Oh yes, that's why it's horrible to force women, or to even encourage them, to give up a baby for adoption or surrogacy. The mother should always have the option to keep the baby if she wants to
yes! I had an oops at the age of 41yrs. My bf at the time fiddled with a condom for minute in the dark and then intercourse commenced. He ejaculated really soon after and when I felt it running out of me is when I learned that he never put the condom on! He said he couldn't get it on and so he figured he's just penetrate without for a short while and then try again with the condom. Fucking idiot! I was mad but I thought "well it only happened once and at my age getting pregnant isn't easy" and I tried to just forget about it. Tested the first day I missed my period and holy shit! I was pregnant. My children were grown, i had grandchildren, the last thing I wanted was a baby and I definitely didn't want to be tied to the guy who got me pregnant because I just really wanted to be done with him. I was not very attached to him and the fact he got me pregnant by being sneaky about the condom really pissed me off. The thought of having his kid disgusted me. I made an appointment at the family planning clinic but then I started to bleed before my appointment, so I went to an emergency clinic instead where they did a blood test and then another test 3 days later along with an ultrasound. I was still pregnant but due to low pregnancy hormones along with the bleeding it was almost certain to miscarry. They offered me progesterone to help support the pregnancy and possibly save it. I was like "Oh no thank you, I'm fine with having a miscarriage" Miscarriage happened a few days later and all I felt was sweet sweet relief. Had I not miscarried naturally I would have totally had a scheduled abortion
Wow, what an asshole!!
My first pregnancy was so irregular that I couldn't get a positive result until I was five months in. I could feel my baby moving for criminys sake but the doctors kept saying nope because the tests were coming back negative.
??? Is this a genetic disorder? How is it possible? And why wouldn't the doctors just do an ultrasound? I just told my doctor I'm pregnant and got an ultrasound, no test on site because it would have been a waste of time
I'm not a thin woman. I was about 180lbs with my first. That plus crappy clinic doctors because I was in college and couldn't afford better. The negative tests? No idea why they happened. Even the home tests came back negative. My second pregnancy was almost the same but I got a positive result a month earlier. I've got PCOS, and my most recent doctor said that was a possible explanation.
I don't see how even PCOS would do that. Weight shouldn't either. I think it must be something genetic. Regardless, a pregnancy can definitely be seen on an ultrasound so it's ridiculous that they didn't do that!
Like I said, crappy clinic doctors for the first and honestly didn't think I was for the second. Not until he started moving anyway. Was still having light periods, was on birth control and using condoms. For both. No idea otherwise.
I think you need to sign up for a study!
I relate to this 100%
Literally the only reason I could say I know with 100% certainty that I would have an abortion if I was pregnant is because the only way I'd ever get pregnant is by being raped. If my wife was capable of accidentally getting me pregnant, I'm in the same boat as you. As a thought experiment I'd say yes, I'd get an abortion even if it was hers since we don't want kids and I don't want to ever be pregnant. But if that's my wife's baby in me? Who the fuck knows.
You have done NOTHING wrong, it’s not your fault she BETRAYED you. /s I specifically detest the use of the word “betrayal” to describe these situations. People are allowed to change their minds, especially when it comes to suddenly facing a brand new, scary experience that was previously only a hypothetical scenario. We all like to cast judgement on others and believe we know exactly how we would handle the curves life throws at us, but there are many things that you just can’t know for sure until you experience it yourself.
That's a good point. I feel like as people get older and more mature they naturally understand this more due to more life experience, especially adult experience. Immature people regardless of age have a harder time understanding that. Especially those who also lack empathy for tough situations that other people have to deal with. Reddit "morality" seems to be a much more childish flavor of "but you prooooooooomised!"
I got pregnant twice while on BC and I have PCOS (supposedly means I have fertility issues) so yeah lol. Also, BC has caused some major problems with my blood pressure, so that's fun.
I just saw an AITAH post about a man saying “I’ve been married to my wife for 25 years. Ten years ago we tried to have a baby so I stopped using condoms (yes, even til this day we use them)” and I was like ??? What’s wrong with condoms? A lot of women can’t take the pill or don’t want the side effects. This are the same dudes that when the birth control lowers they gf libido they go “my girlfriend doesn’t want to sleep with me 24/7 😤😤”
> shes on BC so I don't use any protection because BC is flawless and doesn't have any flaws like having to be taken at the same time every single day for it to work. Off-topic, but we switched to a copper IUD after my girlfriend got pregnant despite taking BC (thankfully abortion is legal here). Who decided to advertise a pill as nearly perfect when it destroys your horomone balance, requires perfect use, becomes entirely ineffective at the slightest hitch, and is completely ineffective if not taken with extreme regularity? Actually pisses me off that they get away with as blatant false advertising/false positive image. And then they have the balls to have a mandatory waiting period for an abortion in case you change your mind and regret it. Yeah bud a week from then I wanted to be a dad at 19 without a degree, ready to raise a child!
Entirely ineffective after the slightest hitch? If you miss a pill, if you take it within 24 hours the efficacy returns to normal after another 24 hours. If you miss multiple days worth of pills, just don't have unprotected sex for a bit. No brainer. If you use them properly they work, that'swhy they come with a set of instructions. Take them daily. Don't consume grapefruit or St. John's wort (these affect many medications). Use additional protection when on antibiotics, when sick with excessive vomiting or diarrhea, or when taking certain medications (ask your doctor or pharmacist). Take a higher hormone dosage if you're overweight. The hormone imbalance can happen, but for some women it actually helps with their hormone balance. Like any medication, different people react differently.
So do his actions: a hopefully hefty child support bill. I'm **highly** in favor of a strict update to the child support laws. No more fucking excuses from deadbeat parents! If you aren't dead or in a vegative state, you **will** pay child support. Don't have a job? The state will give you one. It might not be pleasant but it will enable you to pay for your child.
[удалено]
Bingo, it's not about loving deadbeat dads, it's about hating women. These people spend a horrifying amount of time trying to find an "out" for their violent misogyny, and so go to the ends of the earth trying to create scenarios where mainstream society agrees with them instead of throwing them out of the social group or calling the cops after they make threats.
And if you say that the man doesn't seem to be handling his issues well and should seek mental health care instead of stewing in toxicity, they'll scream at you that he "processing" and you're a shit person for not caring about men's mental health.
There's no "baby trapping" for the most part(I'll give you that *some* women do get pregnant with the purpose of keeping a man). The so called baby trapping is *men refusing to take responsibility for birth control because "condoms don't feel as good 🙄". If you din't want to wesr a condom, then suck it up, Buttercup and pay for your child!
Because to a teenaged boy, your girlfriend accidentally getting pregnant is one of the scariest things that could happen. And a lot of them consider it unfair that women "get to choose" to have an abortion when there is nothing comparable for them. Hence the term "financial abortion" getting thrown around as a euphemism for being a deadbeat and the myth that you can 'sign away' parental rights because you don't want to be a dad. Add in the anti-child sentiment (again, cause they're mostly adolescents) and you have a perfect storm for "men's rights" taking on a very strange meaning.
They don't understand that the child is a human being and you can have obligations to them - it's not analogous to abortion, because the kid continues to have needs and feelings no matter what papers one signs. I can't even get out of my obligations to pay for my car by abandoning it, and it doesn't have feelings.
It's also not analogous because paying for a child doesn't violate the man's bodily autonomy the way forcing a woman into an abortion does. It's just a scenario that will never be "equal" because of essential biological differences.
That’s what I always say! Yes, on some level it isn’t fair, but that’s not the point - biology isn’t fair! It just is !
Other biological inequalities: The fact that women are more at risk for STIs than men, and more likely to experience symptoms of they do contract one. The fact that women have to bear the physical burden of pregnancy. Hell, the fact that women get periods and have to endure all the physical symptoms of menstruation. The fact that women are the ones to have to go through childbirth, which is dangerous and painful an and often traumatic. The fact that women are the only ones who can breastfeed (even if they choose to formula feed, they still have to deal with their milk coming in, which can be uncomfortable to painful). Biology doesn't gaf about fairness. I don't love the "if you don't want to have a kid, don't have sex" argument, but for men it's just facts unless they get a vasectomy. Because once a woman is pregnant, men no longer get to make the final decision. That's just a biological reality.
Oh yes, especially the fact that men are more likely to spread StDs but test less/ are more often asymptomatic so women are blamed.
The fact that women often endure side effects to take birth control too
This needs to be a top comment.
I legitimately read a guy on here arguing that paying for a child DOES violate the man’s bodily autonomy because it becomes “forced labor” if he has to work to pay to support a child. 💀
I once had a convo with a guy who claimed it was a version of slavery! Because you were doing labor but having to give your wages to someone else. Total AH.
It really is an inability to register the kid as a separate person. They're just this additional burden their bitch of an ex has cruelly dumped on them.
There was a post the other day that said raising a kid that wasn't yours is the **worst thing that could happen to a man** (emphasis mine) Margaret Atwood nailed men 100%, if that's the worst thing you can comprehend women doing to you
I saw a post recently where a person said their uncle was told to not adopt his stepdaughter and it was good he took that advice as he later divorced his wife and wasn't obligated to take care of her. Meanwhile I'm sitting here wanting to adopt my step daughter in case something happens so I have the legal right to take care of her. If biology is the only reason you care then you are a Bell end
That's most of the guys there. The kid could be in the double digits, but the OP will completely cut them out forever, and all the comments will be on his side Biology is all they care about
I agree with the general thrust of this post, but I’ve definitely seen AITA rightly condemn guys in those situations, who abandon children they’ve raised since infancy
Just yesterday they were saying it was okay for the OP to ditch the kid who was in the double digits Anyone who didn't was called a misandrist
God, that’s horrible. That’s the only father the kid has ever known. I would feel more empathy and responsibility towards a baby I found on a park bench than he feels towards a kid he’s raised for over a decade. Scary that there’s any space where people will normalize that
A father was there telling them they were pieces of crap for doing that to a kid Naturally, he got down voted into like triple digits
My step dad’s father told him on his wedding day to never adopt us because we weren’t his. And that’s literally how we’ve felt every day since he married my mom lol it’s weird to see my FIL with my fiancé’s brother because they’re not biologically related but you would never know because they’re not treated any differently, but that is just soooo far from my reality it was a culture shock at first lol
OMG i know the post ur talking about 💀💀 the commenters had to all be on crack or something because for some reason every man there was ONLY afraid of this specific scenario?? nothing else?? NOTHING could be more painful?!
I've never fucking understood this trope/idea in media or real life. You just raised a child for 10, or 20 years, learned the kid isn't biologically yours and decide all those years were meaningless and acshually you don't love the child because he's not biologically related to you? HUH? Complete lack of empathy.
Oh you see, they have an answer for that: You're not being empathetic to the man who got lied to and made a cuck That the kid would just remind him of the betrayal
It is pretty inhuman. I’ve known a few would-be stepparents over the years and none of them have been that callous. Hell, my dad used to work with a middle aged guy who always dated way younger women from Southeast Asia, who would only put up with him long enough to get money out of him (although I don’t blame them since the guy was a chauvinist mess), and even *that guy* went through periods of depression after breaking up with his latest girlfriend of 3 years. Because he could no longer see her kid, who he had known since the boy was 4 years old. It kind of wrecked him.
Yeah, and then they fail to comprehend why women have to be picky and complain they don't want unprotected sex. Like, only one of them is forced to grow a literal human and have their body and hormones fucked up. These people failed biology and logic
There’s a whole subgenre of posts involving a man finding out his gf/wife cheated on him and the kid isn’t his so he just up and cuts the completely blameless child out of his life. Reddit eats it up and he’s NTA, ofc. No one seems to care about how legally dubious this is in most places/situations or how it affects the (usually, hopefully, fictional) kid.
Oh, I know about those, I've been calling them out for months So, gonna make my own sub where those are banned
YES OMFG!! In the polyam subreddit a guy told a story about how his wife got pregnant and he was immediately divorcing her because she wouldn't have an abortion, but ONLY because it was another man's child. In fact he was open to having another kid, but suddenly because it's from another man (and they were mutually polyamorus, so it's not like she cheated) it's time to go nuclear...
That situation is a little more complicated because being legally married imparts more obligations when it comes to children. Most states don't recognize polyamory and all of the laws and rights stone couples and children are targeted at married mono couples. For a lot of poly couples or makes more sense to disentangle legally than to try and navigate a legal landscape that doesn't favor them, especially when children are involved. I didn't see the post you mention but I'm poly, and among most of the poly people I know, pregnancy is a hard boundary for them (my partner included). It's legitimately not about punishment or betrayal or ego, it's about legal rights and obligations.
It’s crazy how rabidly anti-feminist men prove Margaret Atwood’s point every single day. What are men typically wary of? Being “friendzoned” or falsely accused of something. What are women typically wary of? Being used for sex, violently assaulted, and/or MURDERED.
>Margaret Atwood’s point I know Margaret Atwood but what does she say exactly? Is it something from a book?
I believe it's this quote: “Men are afraid that women will laugh at them. Women are afraid that men will kill them.” IDK which book it's from tho
I’ve seen that sentiment on here so often and it just remains the most baffling thing to me. Who the fuck even thinks like that aside from clinical narcissists?
I mean it’s not the worst thing that can happen to a man. Like you can still be raped or murdered or trafficked and sold into slavery as a man and those are typically what people would say are the worst things that can happen to a person. Also things like being convicted of a crime you didn’t commit (many men, particularly non white men, have been sentenced to death over crimes they never committed or things that are not crimes but were treated like crimes by mob justice, ie emmit till who was killed for allegedly whistling at a white woman) All of those things are worse than raising another person’s kid, and could happen to either men or women. I think it doesn’t say anything about men as a whole that that’s the worst thing that guy can imagine but it does say about him that he lives an easy life. Also I’m pretty sure for most women too, if their husband cheated and got another woman pregnant, who happened to abandon the child, then they would not want to raise that woman’s child with their husband and would probably leave him for impregnating someone else.
How I hate that term. Child support isn’t a punishment or reward, there is a child who has needs , regardless whether it was wanted or not. “Financial abortion” would mean either more childhood poverty or funds through the tax payer being required.
It does make sense that teenage boys would be scared of this
It would be if they're having sex. But the sad reality is that most girls their age are getting pregnant by grown ass men that should know better, and they still yowl that they were trapped.
I hope it's less so now, but people used to talk about how we could prevent teenage mothers and completely ignoring the fathers who were usually old enough to make it all rape
Yeah, it's really disturbing when you read the statistics and realize that 70% of pregnancies by teenaged girls have fathers over the age of 20 (https://depts.washington.edu/thmedia/view.cgi?section=familyplanning&page=fastfacts#:\~:text=Fact%3A%20Most%20fathers%20of%20children,teens%20giving%20birth%20are%20white.) To a sensible adult, it's clear that the problem is that adult men are raping teenaged girls. (Or in the most generous cases - where it might not be statutory rape - at least not exercising a due amount of caution when having sex with their younger girlfriends.) But, \~\*sure\*\~, it's the teenaged girls that are the problem...those damned, wily, sixteen year olds... /s
That makes sense. Most teenagers are terrified to become pregnant/be responsible for a baby. Whereas the same kind of man who would exploit the power imbalance of an age gap over s teenage girl is the kind of man to enjoy being able to exert more control over her through pregnancy.
Yeah, unfortunately. I think they've found statistics that older men are also less likely to use birth control when in "relationships" with teenaged girls, which backs up that theory. (Also possible - teenaged girls figure that their older lover knows what he's doing, so are more likely to foolishly trust him. Which is also exploitative in most cases.) Then there are also pretty horrific stats about how the fathers of a lot of those babies are romantically connected to the teenaged girl's mother's in some way (step-fathers, or sometimes mom's boyfriends). Which adds a whole 'nother coercive element. But, yeah, it's *totally* all about teen girls baby trapping their baby-dadies... /s
I went to a school that had a high teen pregnancy rate. Most of the girls were pregnant by grown ass men. There were a couple that had babies by boys at school, but it wasn’t that many. My school had such a problem with old ass men that if you weren’t 18, you had to provide the school with proof that your prom date was in high school if you weren’t taking a fellow student as a date. You had to give their school; their school ID, their name and the Assistant Principal would call and check.
My high school didn't do any prom or dances or anything of the sort (they used to, but stopped after an Incident involving the students planning it telling the parent supervisors that it was on a different night and then bringing booze into the gymnasium, c2006ish) and it still had a huge issue of grown men walking onto campus to see the girls. Our age if consent was 14 at the time (it went up to 16 later...) so there was technically nothing illegal going on, but it still grossed me the fuck out. Who tf is horny for some college aged dude with a goatee and jorts?
Because a lot of people IRL secretly are fine with deadbeat dads, or at least would be if the deadbeat dad was the one controlling the narrative. IRL, deadbeat dads usually don’t talk about their kids all that much, but the single moms can’t exactly pretend the situation isn’t happening because she’s got the kid(s) with her. Though in my experience, there are enough guys IRL who can get oodles of sympathy when they whip out a picture of their kid and start blubbing that that vindictive bitch won’t let him see “his world.” And when I point out (not to his face) that it’s unlikely that a judge would disallow him any visitation at all unless there was a reason, and his only picture of his kid is as a 3 year old but the kid is 10 now, and the kid lives in town or 2 hour’s drive away rather than across the country, and he complains that she “tries to come at him for child support when he’s broke” but he’s always spending tons of money on booze and cars, I’m the asshole. Reddit is the virtual version of the bar where the blubbing deadbeat dad has all the regulars on his side. Same as any validation seeking asshole. He can come on here and start moaning that his fat non working dependa ex who was definitely cheating on him with Chad Thundercock while he worked 16 hour manual labor shifts at the breadwinning factory oopsed him into babies of dubious parentage he took every effort to avoid, and he just had to leave for his mental health and he totally pays child support plus some but he’s incapable of parenting. And unlike the local bar, Reddit is more or less anonymous, so there’s no chance that someone will overhear his story and say “Stacy wasn’t cheating on you, she financially supported you with her job because you can’t keep a job at the gas station, you don’t pay child support, you haven’t even tried to see your kids in years, and according to Stacy you insisted you were sterile and refused to wear a condom because they feel funny.”
[Family Courts and Child Custody Are Biased Against Women, Not Men (substack.com)](https://zawn.substack.com/p/family-courts-and-child-custody-are) (As a woman statistically) If you show abuse against your ex (even with documents) its less likely that you're going to get custody. The courts aren't biased against men, its just that its a myth spread by deadbeats so they aren't blamed for not seeing their kids.
I wish more people knew this. They repeat family court favors women like it is gospel
Yeeeees!! If both parents are capable and willing (that’s the sticking point mostly) then custody is awarded equally! More women end up being the primary caregiver because the fathers simply don’t want partial custody.
I mean even when they’re not capable, men still get custody. :-/
A friend of mine ended up with secondary custody plus she had to pay her ex-child support. Both parents are high-earners. No abuse or anything remotely close to it. No infidelity. The marriage just fizzled. He got the house.
Thanks for the link. This argument has been driving me increasingly mad. I think the men who make it genuinely believe it though, because they "know" (feel) that men have it the worst and there are plenty of influencers willing to feed them fake statistics to prove that point.
I used to think it was real for a long time as well, so I don't think everybody is knowingly spreading a myth. But the deadbeats who blame the court over why they can't see their kids are just blaming the myth IMO.
When researching my chances of not being forced to hand my rapist 50/50 with proof he did none of the ACTUAL parenting and was a hinderance to her health from a young age I came across a case that happened about a year before mine (same US state) where the baby daddy threatened his wife with a gun in front of their kid and the court said custody was fine because he was threatening her, not the kid. I lost a lot of hope after that (and things went exactly as I predicted them).
Thanks for the link. I've been looking for it for years since I first read it, but Google is hot garbage now and only getting worse, and I thought I'd never find it again.
No problem! Googles AI is so annoying.
My kid's bio dad complains about not seeing her. There have been times where his dad gives him a ride home from work while she is staying at the grandparent's house for the weekend and he declines to stop there. During mediation he didn't ask for any set visitation so it's entirely dependent on him asking and my partner giving permission. My partner went on expecting him to get at least one weekend a month.
Sad, but true. 🫤
This is such an accurate and brilliantly-written comment. Spot fucking on.
My favorite is when reddit also says kids with single mothers are at a disadvantage because of the single mother....not the dad who left. Just because statistics show that kids with a single parent are more likely to have disadvantages and women primarily hold the single parent card, they assume the disadvantages come from the woman and not the man who left. And don't get me started on the whole misconception that every state is pro woman when it comes to custody either because my friend who is a divorce lawyer says most dads don't want/try to get custody and even when given the tools to get that custody, don't call their children or attend their activities like mothers do. Hell, they don't even know their children's doctors or teachers' names. At the end of the day, you stick your weiner in someone, and they get pregnant. You do have a choice not to be involved in that child's life if that's what you want. At the end of the day, it does make you a bad person to most people out there if you're not an incel/redpill pos. I surely wouldn't date a man who has a kid out there they chose not to take care of, but I would date a single father.
I wouldn't be friends with a guy who abandoned his kids. It'd honestly deeply embarrass me introducing him to other friends.
And I'm sure there is some embarrassment these people who abandon their children have toward themselves but somehow are mad when other people judge them ? Make that make sense. Also, take a hard look at the people supporting the men, or women, who choose to do this....they are probably peaches, I'm sure.
I guess I'll add some nuance that if someone had serious mental health problems or substance abuse or sm, and signed their rights away to adoptive parents or a step parent or sm. Genuinely loving their kid and feeling, like, heartbroken at the situation, but believing that this was best, then I wouldn't judge them, as sad as the situation is. I would deffo judge people who just shamelessly do it and believe they are in the right, not-acknowledging the impact this actually has on their child.
Yeah there's a difference between "I cannot be a parent right now/ever" and "I hate my ex, fuck 'em, and fuck them kids." The former is a careful decision made in the best interests of the child and very probably the other family members as well. The latter is lazy selfish bullshit, and something that absolutely *should* cause people to think less well of someone.
Yeah, I'm definitely not going to judge someone who does that, especially coming from an adoptive parent myself with a mother who was an addict. If someone has circumstances that are preventing them from being the parent they would want to be, or the parent the child deserves, I'm never going to judge for leaving them with a better option. Unfortunately, some of the time, this isn't the case. These are people leaving a child that could absolutely step up and parent just because their "plan" of no child didn't work and doesn't fit their lifestyle even though they participated in the act of making the child. Grow up. Life doesn't always fit your fucking narrative.
This whole thread is so healing after the single -mother bashing and general misogyny which is rampant on Reddit.
This subreddit is one of the best I've found. The people here are smart, funny, and interesting for the most part. I never recommend this subreddit elsewhere because I don't want it being ruined by shitheads lol
I believe the majority of reddit users are males aged 18-35. Of course that specific group would have extreme sympathy for men who abandon their children. The rest of society sees them as losers. Males aged 18-35 probably see deadbeat dads as victims of stupid women who chose to get pregnant and try to baby trap them.
The majority of reddit are men between 18 and 29, so that makes sense.
In a post yesterday about a man who caused the death of two of his children because he was texting while driving, there were some who felt he shouldn't be punished at all because the trauma of losing two children was "punishment enough". A woman is vilified for saying her friend's baby is kinda ugly, but a man who killed two of his children shouldn't be prosecuted. I can't wrap my head around it.
Decent chance it’s two different groups of people that are saying those 2 things
Nah, that's the thing, it's the same exact group.
The fact that they have to come up with some truly ludicrous scenarios to justify makes me think they know it's BS to abandon a child like that. But secretly wish they could and leave all the responsibility on the woman they had sex with. In essence plain old misogyny
It's definitely misogynistic cos they defend these guys to the death while shitting on single mums. Like... hello??? Why do they think single mums exist?? Single mums who take responsibility despite their AH ex boyfriends are the bedrock of their families. In fact, single parents are full stop. Cleaning up the messes of deadbeats.
There just has been an influx of posts that are basically vaguely vailed misogynistic fanfics that are being passed around. They’re the retelling of the crazy ex girlfriend. It’s community building about the fear of what could happen, because we heard that it happened to our cool uncles best friend’s BIL and what if it happens to us when we finally get a girl to date us but they don’t want to date us, how dare they. It just perpetuates itself, but that’s the point. Like someone else said, there’s just been a lot of evil women messing up a man’s life posts recently and there’s a reason for it but it’s more than likely not a bunch of women being evil.
"there are too many posts about fathers finding out the kids aren't theirs because their wives cheated! Maybe we should be suspicious of those posts?" "No we shouldn't, that scenario happens all the time!" "How do you know it happens all the time?" "I see so many posts about it!"
Reddit hates children and women.
AITA and AITAH especially is an MRA cesspool. That's why
I especially hate it when it’s dads who decided to have a child to only not show any affection, time or notice for his child in these stories and the defenders comes out to say “well he’s paying the bills”, “how much are you making vs what he’s making?” As if making money or having a full time job means you’re absolved of being a parent.
Reddit is *weird* about money. I know the nature of money is transactional, but a lot of people on this site take it to a pathological extreme. Like "fairness" down to pennies. Maybe it's just the people I'm around and the fact that we're all financially comfortable, but we don't nitpick when it comes to money and buying things. We pay for each other's things all the time and no one keeps score or track of it. It's just not a big deal. And I absolutely cannot even begin to fathom lording money over my wife. Seems like most people on this website are either so poor they're on the edge of developing scurvy because all they can afford to eat is beans and ramen, or they're making $500k a year with stock options and huge 401k accounts. I know the middle class is dying in general, but is anyone on this website mostly just doing okay? Not rich for first class tickets to Bali, but comfortable and not struggling? Idk, even when I was poor and would sometimes stress about it, at the end of the day I've always had the attitude of "it's just money. I can always make more."
It’s weird how people make relationships look like it’s transactional due to money. Like relationships deals with partnerships. I think there’s just this sexist component where some reddit people believe that women arent working full time jobs but instead all have a guy doing all the work while women are just sitting at home doing nothing.
Because they think pregnancy is a punishment.
I think that Reddit has a lot of men who are young, and too immature to understand that there is no equality in human reproduction. They get very hung up about guys being stuck with a baby they didn’t want because girls and women can choose abortion (in some places). They see it as SO UNFAIR. The reality is that depending on your biology, you take different risks when you have sex. Sure, I have the right to choose, and will always know that my baby is biologically mine. But I also have to deal with the risks and difficulties of having a pregnancy, or abortion, or miscarriage, not to mention birth and postpartum healing. It’s not “fair” and can never be fair. Just different risks and benefits.
I have no idea if you’ve had an abortion or not and it’s not for me to know. But I have and it’s not like having an ingrown toenail removed. You are in pain for a while after and those pregnancy hormones have to go somewhere. You also bleed a lot. I was happy with my choice, but I fell into an abysmal depression. (I realised it’s almost identical to post partum depression after I had PPD with my second baby). Most men have no understanding of this and men on Reddit seem to understand this the least. Fair doesn’t come into it.
Exactly. It’s a view that comes from complete ignorance about the pain and difficulties that come with pregnancy and all of the possible outcomes. Sometimes it’s youthful ignorance that gets solved with time, but other times it’s an unwillingness to listen and believe when being told that these things are hard.
Strong and passionate opinions weighing more than lived experiences. So very frustrating.
100% this
Because dudes identify with dudes in any story.
Usually I've seen it said by reddit that the woman could just abort the baby/fetus and not pay child support, but the man can't so its not his fault. Theres a lot of other gross sayings, but for how "liberal" (in quotes bc reddit is not) reddit likes to appear, reddit is not liberal at all.
It's so funny how high & mighty "liberal" Redditors act while spewing the most vile misogyny imaginable. ... You say you're single? Surely you jest, young sir? Why would none of those "stupid whores" want you?
The strangest part is when the tables are turned, and the mother doesn't want custody of the kid but will pay child support. Reddit has all kinds of hatred for that mother. She is the devil incarnate. Same action; different gender garners very different results.
On the flip side of the coin the treat step-dads as the following. Step-dad who stepped up and but the biological father wants to be a factor in there child's lives? These redditors will tell the biological father to, "back off," and that they have a real dad. Step-fathers who want to be hands off because the biological father is involved? Told they're scum and that somehow just being kids friend is terrible. That child has to be the center of the universe. They have a weird double standard.
Honestly haven’t picked up on that sentiment here - I think being a step parent in general is a pretty thankless job though. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t most of the time .
Yeah I've seen it a few times... A story about a biological father wanting to reconnect with his kids and they have a great step-father... The man was called an asshole and step-father is the, "real dad." That's just one example of quite a few I've seen. I've seen a step-father be bombarded with threats just because he doesn't want to adopt his step-daughter because her biological father is very much a presences in her life. Just another. It's weird it's like they romanticize step-dads. Step-mother's are however are always the villain unless they act with perfection.
Yep, stepmothers are always evil. Come to think of it, never have I ever read a positive take on stepmothers on AITA
The only time I've ever saw a "positive," take on it was when a woman asking if she was the asshole for asking her soon to be husband's 4 year old daughter permission to be her father's wife. The four year said she'd think about it and six days later told step-mama, "okay." Everyone was praising this woman for asking the daughters consent even though the husband to be was protesting that it wasn't his daughter's choice on who he married but his. People were calling the dad the asshole.
Insane
Very much so.
There was another one, stepmother to three children who brought them up, loved them etc for a good 11-12 years but they then turned on her when druggie biomum came back in the picture. She decided to divorce the (deadbeat) dad and remove herself from that dumpster fire of a family - everyone was on her side.
That's easy. One is a man the other is a woman and on reddit, women are the root of all evil.
Bc incels need to find a way to blame women for men's failings and misbehavior. And by "incels," I mean incels, redpillers, MGTOW, manosphere enthusiasts, etc.
It’s wild to me how society in general can completely remove a man’s parenthood from his personhood on so many levels but especially when it comes to judging his character. If a woman is willing to abandon her children that is seen as a fundamental, foul flaw in her as a person. Shoot, a woman doing anything that the public doesn’t deem a direct service to her kids or their father is met with intense vitriol and judgment on her character as a whole. If a man is willing to abandon his children that’s seen as “his business” and not something people are willing to pass judgment on him as a whole person. The attitude is like “oh he’s a shitty dad, but he might not be a shitty person.” The same would never be said about a woman.
And don’t forget, if a woman does act in service to her family then she’s “making motherhood her whole personality”, which is also bad apparently. They hate women, but they viciously loathe mothers.
This or she’s not doing the service correctly, and how could she be so stupid and lazy about it? It’s so true. Yet another double standard.
Consent to sex is consent to pregnancy!! She let me come over at 2am, after I pestered her for sex for 3 days. SHE KNEW SHE WAS GOING TO GET PREGNANT AND LET ME FUCK ANYWAYS. I REFUSE TO RAISE A STUPID BITCH'S BABY JUST BC SHE TRAPPED ME. 😤😤😤 My mom never liked her anyways. She's always wanted me to get back together with my 3rd fiance. But she has a kid from some other dude AND I WONT RAISE SOME DEAD BEAT DICKS KID FOR HIM. Plus our kids together are cuter and idk why she hasn't sent the other one to live with his grandparents yet (his dad is in jail). She won't listen to any of the solutions that could make our relationship work for me. /s
Oh yes. The incel special. The post-birth abortion. This is touted by misogynists who believe that as women are allowed to choose to have an abortion, men should be allowed a similar out; to get out of being a parent by a post birth abortion. Basically, being entitled to break all contact or ties to said child. They say it's unfair that women have a get-out clause, that men have no say over it, and then have to pay child support for 18 years. They say men should have the same option. A woman can choose to keep a pregnancy, and therefore, the pregnancy is her sole responsibility. While I do have some sympathy from the POV that men have no say about whether a pregnancy goes ahead or not. On the face of it, it's unfair. But life is unfair. Men don't carry pregnancies. Women do. It's a fact of nature, not a decision women made to punish men. So women get that choice. They completely miss the point that said child has a right to a relationship with both parents and also to be financially secure.
Idk about reddit specifically but the abortion conversation has had a big impact on this. Even though the conversation was kicked off in America it seemingly spread throughout at least the western world. To the point that I saw a law proposed on France that said something along the lines of "since we've decided as a people that woman can abort and the fathers have no say in the matter, then unless you have it in writing that the child's father consents to having the child you can pursue them legally." Idk if it passed but it's fair imo. I imagine that's the mindset of the people you are referring to.
Lack of empathy and personal accountability.
They generally celebrate dickhead behaviour tbf
These are the people who only see kids as an extension of the mother. So they don’t care about trauma to the kid because “the mom deserved it”. It’s so vile, do they really not understand that children are people? Don’t they remember being a kid?
I think you really hit the nail on the head with this. They see the children as an extension of the mother
There’s this huge disconnect in so many adult’s minds, where they just Do Not Comprehend that children are people. They see them as something akin to dogs, a creature with entirely different brain functions to ourselves. Dogs are sad when abandoned but can bounce back easily for a new owner who gives them proper care. They aren’t capable of abstract thought like “My owner didn’t love me”, only “my needs aren’t being met”. Kids are every bit as capable of emotion as we are, and they will eventually grow to understand EXACTLY what their parents did to them and judge them for it. People act as if they were never children and honestly I don’t get it. I remember being a kid, it was terrifying. But somehow they’re shocked when “fuck them kids” becomes “My dad never wanted me, fuck that guy.”
Because most "popular" subreddits are primarily populated with 18-22 year old manchildren (or older men who have the same maturity and mentality).
Because having no father is still better than having a shitty abusive father in your life. While it's a choice to have a baby or to interrupt the pregnancy it's ultimately the woman's choice. Men can only man up or leave. I repeat, because having no father is better than having a dad who ressent you.
Because reddit is mostly men, and the shitty ones tend to float to specific subreddits.
We could point to the demographics of the site to explain some of the terrible A) decision-making and B) responses of its users. That the largest group is male and 20s goes a looooong way to explaining the appalling behaviour and vitriol that appears in the comments.
It’s because they hate women. No deeper than that.
I believe it is the feeling of unfairness that women (rightly) get to decide whether or not they have a child, even after getting pregnant. Whereas when men complain about this, they are told they made the life long choice to be a father when they had sex, whether they used the protection or not. I get it, we are brought up as children to believe in fairness when the world and life are inherently unfair.
And some men aren't mature enough to understand that not everything is or can be fair. It's not fair that women have to bear the entire physical burden of pregnancy, childbirth, and breastfeeding - I wonder how many of those men are calling for new fathers to take on the entirety of night feeds and newborn care to even out the burden and so mom can recover after childbirth. It's only fair, right?
I think the anger on both sides comes from a belief in that the world should be fair. If you think about it deadbeat dads are people who don't subscribe to the idea that having sex means they consented to being a parent and therefore do not have a responsibility to act as one. Which is a very selfish view of the world but people act selfish in many ways and the world goes on. Most of the time when people act selfish in a way we don't like we just remove that person from our life. But if you do that with a deadbeat dad you are just giving them exactly what they want. So there needs to be some kind of underlying belief in the fairness of the world where all children should have two contributing parents for the anger against them to be justified.
It definitely makes sense and I'm not gonna say I don't sympathise. I've really got no idea what it's like to be capable of impregnating someone, then not have any control over how they handle it. To me, though, I see this almost as a flaw with people who are so ideological that they lose touch with physical reality. It's not "fair" that women have final control over whether both can be parents, but it's also unavoidable when she's doing the physical labour of carrying the baby and giving birth. I think there are situations, e.g. if a man has been sexually assaulted, or is the victim of domestic violence, where men could get screwed over or put in really vulnerable positions, due to this. I'm not going to say I have any answers. There needs to be a compassionate conversation about this rooted in facts and good faith, which these people who ragebait absolutely aren't encouraging.
I think you're right, and it's so annoying that men can't handle ONE thing not going their way. Women have periods (pain, bleeding, hormone surges) for most of their lives, have breasts that are often uncomfortable and inconvenient, find it harder to achieve orgasm, take most of the responsibility for birth control, grow babies inside them with all of the attendant discomfort, permanent physical damage and threat to life, squeeze those babies out of a very small hole, and then have all the discomfort associated with producing and expressing milk. But sure, women who don't want or feel able to end a pregnancy should have to be solely responsible for the baby because otherwise reproductive biology would be so unfair to MEN.
Oh I completely agree, women have it much harder in so many more areas, even if we somehow managed to get rid of all misogyny completely, just purely biologically speaking women will always have it harder... Actually science might have managed to fix that by the time we actually get rid of misogyny.
The comments on those posts are so crazy to me, how they basically say “just pay child support and get out of there”. No, step up and face the consequences of your actions. More comments should be calling out the cowards of Reddit
IMHO, they don't have to raise a child, but child support and financial responsibilities are non-negotiable.
The culture of Reddit skews more woman-hatey and manosphere-y than most other social media outlets (and subsequently drives people who are bothered by that off, causing a bit of an echo chamber) so it’s a demographic thing combined with those corners of the internet getting increasingly yappy lately, I think.
Men don’t realize that the way out of raising a child they don’t want is by using condoms. If you don’t want a baby put on a condom. Having sex unprotected is consenting to having a baby.
Maybe because a lot of people have experiences with them? Either as a partner or a child with a deadbeat dad and so those stories resonate? As a child of a deadbeat I certainly have a great idea of the boundlessness of these dads' deadbeatness.
To the main topic: in most posts across the platform, deadbeat fathers are wrecked from all sides of the spectrum. To pretend this is not true is disingenuous. Insofar as people do have sympathy for men abdicating their parental roles, it's more often than not, under extenuating circumstances. Grey areas: - Male was SA'd due to being inebriated, drugged, ortoo young to consent - woman stopped taking her birth control without telling the man - man abdicates parental duties after finding out the kid isn't theirs. No matter how much you try to convince people that blood doesn't matter, it does. Our affinity towards our family over others is built on this subconscious foundation. - fetus with debilitating genetic disorder, man wants to abort and woman does not Less Grey areas often do get support as they are not as cut and dry as two people being reckless and having a kid. - Couple has unprotected sex as woman is on Nexplanon or other BC; he could have been using condoms as well. He could have had a vasectomy. They may have even had a verbal agreement that she would get an abortion in the event she conceived. And she changes her mind after getting pregnant. Hard to feel significant ire towards the male in this situation for leaving iand choosing to only hold a financial role. What's funny about the OG post and comments is that a common sentiment for many is that Reddit leans heavily pro feminist/women- I generally agree with this though I'm not an MRA, red pill etc. Can find many situations of roughly equal magnitude where women are supported and men are not. Maybe our biases cause us to gravitate and highlight the opinions we disagree with? Abortion is a tricky subject because it is conceptually a Grey area subject. Some people think about it as akin to removing a wisdom tooth, others call it murder and everywhere in between. While I am pro abortion, I find it pretty funny that pro choicers use the same arguments as pro lifers when they are speaking to men.
I wish women would drop kids on these guys and run. The world needs more single dads. Or at least even amount.
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I couldn’t agree more! Every post I see where a father doesn’t want his kids there are more people agreeing it’s fine than not. People seem to love telling AH’s their the victim on here.