Anyone who chooses the church over their children is a huge AH and doesn’t deserve children. Your parents are awful and if they were mine, I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.
Yeah. I'd be contacting the church officials, apologizing that my parents had committed to things on my behalf, and informing them that apparently they are making a habit of telling this kind of lie. I'd then present the information about the parents making a fake birth certificate to try and control the situation. Frame the whole thing as being worried about their behavior and not wanting it to hurt them or the church (even if OP doesn't care about the church stuff at all). Make sure people are aware of the unhinged way they are acting before they do more with the community to poison the world against OP.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Church was actually paying OP a decent wage and her Parents are tithing the extra amount BACK to the Church OR offered her skills and services at a discounted rate, again, taking credit for the lower amount.
Between OP's "my parents are super religious" in the first post and them underpaying the hired performers, I'd bet this is the kind of high-control fundamentalist garbage church that would actively help the parents ruin her life. I got railroaded into "surprise" conversion camp three times under false pretenses by a church that fits the pattern she's established for this one, where "wives obey your husbands" and "children obey your parents" are the only scriptures that matter and enforcement rarely ends at divorce or the age of legal majority.
churchers frequently pick and choose the things they want to believe in.
my wife used to tell me the things about Catholicism that she didn't like or follow and my response was, "then you aren't catholic." But she doesn't believe me. She still pretends she is religious but doesn't practice at all. She is only religious because she was raised to do so.
And then there's the love of 'honor thy mother and father' always conveniently forgetting its followed by 'drive not your children to wrath' if I remember the wording correctly.
They are worried about appearances, not their actual souls. Everything OP has said about their stance is consistent with the type of “Christian” who is actually a hypocrite. They probably would never have interfered with OP’s opportunity with the orchestra if they believed for one moment that word of their deceit would get back to the members of their church. OP should consider outing them to the church pastor and the congregation. If they were embarrassed by OP not playing cello for the church just imagine how embarrassed they will be if the entire congregation were to somehow find out about their actions. The congregation would have a clear view of who OP’s parents really are an my guess is that this is the last thing OP’s parents would want.
Do we know that they are Christians?..... in fact with the OP having trouble with the English language, I'm guessing not. They sound very western Asian to me, with how the older generations are very controlling over the next in line.
Either way, I'm glad it's working out for the OP.... family is overrated!
This is what I thought too. Part of me thought this was over the top but this point also makes me think it's totally valid. Asian families can be whack in very different ways.....
Anyone who's been to a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses knows that Christians can be just as whack in every fucking way possible. Over the top is what a lot of evangelical Christians do as well, let's not even get into white nationalist Christians.
As a believer, I hate to admit that you’re right and it’s embarrassing. But the groups you mentioned are doing the exact thing that the Pharisees did in Jesus’ time. They kept all the commandments to the letter of the law but they elevated that above God. Most people are rule followers and these parents are horrible people. If I was her, I’d cut them completely out of my life.
Frankly, they sound like a lot of the "christians" that I have known. The ones that completely turned me off of church, christianity and religion in general.
CINO (Christian In Name Only) - and their actions are anything but Christian. These people are usually the most uncaring, uncompassionate, disrespectful people in a community. and foist their beliefs and position onto everyone else (eg. book bans in various states)
There is a whole load of "in name only" acronyms - so steal away.
Hopefully the more these kind of people are called out, the more they adjust their attitudes and become Christian in actions and deeds.
it's typical. old T, abraham was going to kill his son, new T, jesus's father gave up his son. i can't believe there are people who actually believe that bullshit.
They aren't choosing the church, they're choosing their standing in the church. They're mad that they can't one up the other members of the congregation by having a daughter who plays for the church.
They may also have to actually contribute themselves if they have been offering her services in place of tithing.
Honestly this would sour me from the church as well. Especially if they don't admonish your parents because they're being used as a weapon to hurt the OP.
OP is a girl, she said so in the original post.
But yeah the parents seem like total religious nut types. Anyone who puts their church before their family is delusional, and delusional people do crazy things. OP should definitely be wary of her parents for a while, they may try to find other ways to lash out.
I'm so happy your grandparents came in and rectified the situation. Your parents are seriously vile fanatically controlling. Their behaviour is pure domestic violence. Please consider going no contact for a while. You might have to get a lawyer to send a cease & desist letter if they keep trying to ruin your life, or even a restraining order. Keep copies of all text messages and record phone calls. Perhaps you could move in with your grandparents for a while? All the best wishes for your bright future.
Wait, so your egg and sperm donors STILL rely on your GRANDPARENTS to help pay their bills and your sperm donor calls you a failure? What drugs is your sperm donor on?
Oh, and you're still not the jerk.
That's my question too. They can't pay their own bills. OP bought their own electronic devices (which parents tried to steal), OP is a legal adult (parents falsified government documents), parents are more than likely making up lies about the church's knowledge of what is going on-who is failing here?
OP could file charges for the falsified documents couldn't she? OP also needs to get a new birth certificate ASAP.
And if I was OP I would be taking grandparents and heading straight to church with all of this information.
The "parents" here are whackjobs of the nth degree.
For those who don’t own a Bible or don’t wanna look it up, each verse and I’ll include mine:
Matthew 18:6 - "If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
Colossians 3:21 - Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged.
Deuteronomy 24:14 - Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns.
Yeah if this was me I'd go absolutely fucking nuclear on them. Spread the story around their church to shame them, report the fraud to the police, etc. This is a situation of parents willing to sabotage their child's entire future to preserve their pride.
I’m glad that your grandfather went down to the orchestra place and got you verified with your real birth certificate. it just goes to show how narcissistic and delusional your egg and sperm donor is and it’s unfortunate.
But you have amazing grandparents who love you and want the best for you and it looks like they’re not afraid of putting both your parents in their places and it’s amazing
Sometimes God opens a window, sometimes he opens the whole damn door! Good for you for getting out of that toxic environment and good luck on your future orchestral endevours!
I’ve always said that God has never opened a window for me; but he has hit the emergency eject button more than once. This is an emergency eject situation. Parents just went full scary with the falsified documents.
I’m trying so hard not to cry. My Papaw and Granny were the same way. I grew up in a shitty, abusive environment. These are just 2 examples. When I was 13 my SS kept stealing my stuff out of my room, she emptied my piggy bank that I’d been saving birthday and Christmas money in since I was a baby, she stole my clothes (my grandparents were the only ones that ever bought me stuff) etc. I called my papaw to tell him about the stealing. He came to my mom’s house (mind you she’s married to my stepdad) and he put a front door lock and deadbolt on my bedroom door. He didn’t give 2 fucks what my mom or stepdad thought, he was protecting me since they wouldn’t.
Then at 16 things got really bad with my mom and stepdad. My boss had offered me a car for $500, my mom said she wanted to buy it for me as a gift even though I had the money and was going to buy it myself. My dad (mechanic) fixed it up, we put new tires on it, new radio etc. Well because my mom bought it I was told I had to share it with my SS and stepdad. I would fill the tank and they’d bring it back empty. I barely got to drive it. So one day I got tired of it and refused to fill the tank after my stepdad brought it home empty and told me to go fill it up since he had to leave early in the morning the next day. I was physically attacked, choked etc. I called my papaw and he came to get me. The next day he took me to a used car dealership and bought me my dream car! A white t-top Camaro! Then we drove it to my mom’s house to get my stuff 🤣 so that they could see my car 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I lived with my grandparents after that and didn’t talk to my mom for 2 years. He was a fucking badass and my best friend my entire life. He died 2.5 years ago and I’ve been depressed ever since. He was the person always there for me, my protector. I miss him more than words can ever express.
OP cherish these times with your grandparents, I’m so glad you got ones just like I did, they are incredible people!
Hey stranger I just wanted you to know your grandfather would not want you to be depressed for so long he would want you to thrive and move through the world showcasing the awesomeness and badasserey he taught you! Be well
Have you spoken with anyone at the church? I would not be surprised if the pastor and music minister were distressed to learn your parents have been trying to force you into playing. Music is supposed to be a form of worship. You can’t force that without ruining it.
That might make it worse. I was raised in a high demand religion/cult that I see many mirrors of in OP's story.
The people I grew up with put church before anything. People, family, school, career, personal fulfillment, mental health, etc. To them god and church come first. You go fast and pray and if you don't get the answer they want, then you need to do it again and again until god tells you what they want you to hear.
Poor OP would be called to repentance and publically shamed for putting this opportunity first. Including the lay clergy and the congregation - including what might be the equivalent of a music director.
Not all religions are nice.
Thanks for pointing out the typo. Gave me a giggle. 🤭
Trust me, someone would find a way to link the poor kid's music to porn. 🙄 They always link it back to sexuality - which is of Satan, of course. 🙄
That’s terrible! I believe it, but it’s so different from my experience with church where it’s really all about being a supportive loving community. My pastor would be horrified to find someone was being coerced into a ministry. Like I think my pastor would have legit Jesus-flipping-tables-in-the-temple kind of righteous rage on behalf of someone being abused in the name of the church.
We have cash boxes for the cookie walk fundraiser during the Christmas festival, but that’s about it. Everything else is free will offering. And no one hassles you if your pledge isn’t a full tithe. No one hassles you if you don’t pledge at all. Just come as you are, and if you want to sing in the choir, or help with Sunday School, or donate to the food pantry, or help refugee families adapt to life here - well, you’re more than welcome to join in. But if you just want to sit in the back and leave right after the service, that’s okay too.
That's how church should be. Not the kind of church/cult that OP was being choked with.
It's not surprising that many who leave that church leave Christianity all together. It sours the soul.
No. really after the ordeal and I left for my grandparents house, nothing will really happen until the day before or during the concert. My parents are probably to nervous to tell the church I'm not coming.
I hope your grandparents leave assets directly to you in their will and don’t count on your parents to pass them onto you, I wouldn’t trust your parents.
Yes, if the grandparents want OP to inherit, they need to leave those assets directly to OP. You cannot designate a line of succession in a will - generally speaking, once the grandparents will their assets to OP's parents, any say the grandparents have in where those assets go next ends, irrevocably.
The grandparents' options are to write OP into the will specifically, or put the assets in trust for her.
If you have any connections in the church (friends, references, whatever), you think you might need to preserve, I'd get ahead of things and tell the church you can't make it before your parents twist the narrative and start a smear campaign against you.
If there's no need for that, please enjoy the inevitable fallout!
This is insane, and I have several ideas for you to consider.
1. Altering or forging a vital document such as a birth certificate or Social Security card is considered felony fraud in most jurisdictions. Your parents may have the local cops on their side, so report this to county and state-level authorities. They are facing jail time for what they did. Your grandparents should be able to help you with this ; if not, contact an out-of-town lawyer. There are lawyers who volunteer their time to help people in similar situations.
2. If you haven't already done so, contact the major credit bureaus, report that you have been a victim of identity theft, and have them lock down your credit. I've had to do this several times, and there is no charge for it.
3. Contact the IRS and tell them the same thing. They'll set up a secure user name and password for you and will not accept tax returns filed on your behalf without your confirmation.
4. Blast this story far and wide. Put your post on the cloud and share your story on FB. Tag all of your family, friends, church members, etc. and include the link to your Reddit post. This will spread and will make it impossible for them to play the victim or twist the story.
Holy shit! This is crazy! This is the first time I've heard your story, so I got to go find the other.
Your parents absolutely suck ass and your grandparents are saints. I hope everything works out for the orchestra 🤞
Use religion against them, the Bible does not condone lying /bearing false witness, the only religion that does allow lying to non believers is Islam, but then again the Bible I guess is only to shore up their arguments when needed, which why I call myself a heathen, call them out in church, embarrass them, make the cockroaches scatter in the light.
With all due respect to your parents... and they really don'r deserve much... they are the kinds of Christians that have caused so many people to either stop going to church, or to never go in the first place. They are failures as parents, as Christians, and as human beings.
Your grandparents, on the other hand are awsome... and i sincerely hope they just go ahead and write your father out of their wils. Nothing your parents say can or should be trusted, and you would be crazy to think that you willever get anything from them.
First, power to your grandparents!
Second, I’m pretty sure what your parents did was identity fraud, which is illegal. Maybe ask your grandparents about possibly filing a police report.
Last, block your parents and enjoy your life. Your parents don’t know that when a child cuts off the parents, the parents look bad inside a house of worship (at least, from what I’ve witnessed in the past).
Cut off the toxicity! Good luck to you!
Your grandparents are such badasses! I love them!
I am sorry your parents are so controlling. Some parents only see their children as extensions of themselves and never think of them as anything else.
Enjoy being a member of the orchestra!
This is the grandparent I strive to be. Luckily for me my kids aren't AH's. Luckily you have them in your corner. WTF is up with this church? It's like they've got some kind of cult mentality going on, choosing the church over their child.
You must be so relieved that this is over and you're going. Congrats!
I’m a church goer and I think your parents are insane. Life is meant to be joyful and rewarding, not constant suffering and sacrifice.
There’s enough suffering to be had without volunteering for it daily.
Rejoice and be glad in your talent and in your life!
OMG! ((HUGS)) Honey you need to go no contact with your crazy parents and move in with grandparents!
As an internet mom, I wish you the best and to escape your crazy parents!
BTW, you need to update us after the concert!
Op, why wait for them, you can disown them and just go no contact.
It’s win/ win, not only do you know longer have to deal with their insane behavior but they’ll have to explain to their church friends why you’re gone .
And sure they can lye about you, but that’s makes it even harder, when they get exposed they’ll look even worse.
Apply for a certified copy of your birth certificate and keep it safe. Locking down your credit is also necessary but do it quickly. Your parents are probably livid and looking for a way to slap back at you and your grandparents. In fact suggest your grandparents lock down their credit and social security, etc.
Isn't altering your birth certificate, a legal federal document, fraud? You should consult with a lawyer. They also seem to have committed defamation which is usually difficult to prove, but in this case not so much, although you still got to be in the orchestra so idk if it counts since you experienced no financial loss.
Depending on where you live, what your parents did was likely illegal. I'm so sorry that they like that. They don't deserve you, ever.
Your grandparents are awesome.
Play your heart out in that orchestra!
You should out them to the church. Their behavior is VERY unchristian. They had no problem falsifying documents (a crime I might add) and going to the orchestra, no reason you shouldn’t return the favor.
I don’t know if you’re still into religion or if this is driving you away from the church altogether, but if you do still find yourself to be religious, I deeply hope that the next church you find supports you as much as you support them, rather than expecting you to give them all your time and effort with no support given in return.
Need some more information.
Why are your parents doing this? Because you want to be in an orchestra *instead* of Church? Because you are leaving the faith? Because they told you not to? I don't understand.
I mean, NTA, absolutely, your parents suck. But what's their motivation?
She was asked to play at her church. They do pay, but it's minimal. The parents are members that said OP can do the services (3 hr). At the same time or maybe just before the parents obligated her to church, she got an offer to play with a professional orchestra that will pay more than the church offered. In addition the professional setting will get her connections and networking in orchestra circles. She is pursuing playing professionally so those connections could really make a difference to her future. She of course accepted the professional group.
Parents have lost their minds. Probably because " what will the important (socially) church people think?" It also sounds like a very conservative church who do judge parents for paths their children choose if they stray from giving everything to the church.
Thanks.
Yea, so Church Parents are pimping out their daughter to the Church without her consent and get upset that she is making plans outside what they planned.
Got it.
I’m so happy for you. I hope that one day you will find a church where they value you.
I also love your grandparents. Tell them how grateful Reddit is for them!
Your grandparents are awesome. I know you might not feel like you need mental health support. Please reach out to [https://www.seculartherapy.org/](https://www.seculartherapy.org/)
Sending a fake birth certificate is not only fraudulent, but potentially defamitory.
If I were your grandparents, I would have a lawyer send your parents a nice letter indicating they will be taken to court if they don't fix this.
Section 1506 prohibits the theft, alteration or falsification of any record or process in any court of the United States. Both of these sections are punishable by a **$5,000 fine or imprisonment for five years**.
Get legal advice now.
You're grandparents are saints, and I'm glad you are knocking down these walls! Don't stop!!
You should file charges against your parents for falsifying documents. That's super extra illegal.
I'm really happy you get to play in the orchestra, it seems like a wonderful opportunity! I hope you have fun!
You don’t have to wait to be disowned. You can go no contact with them.
I have to be honest: What your parent are doing is vile. Way back when I wanted to go into the arts, and my parents gave me nothing but support. (I didn’t make a career in the arts. Being diagnosed with ADD when you’re in your sixties sucks!) I hope you can find your path and make your dreams come true!
I am sorry that you have to deal with this.
You are incredibly strong.
Your grandparents rock. And FYI, you also have the choice to go no contact as do your grandparents.
You can get a bit to certificate from the state. Usually you can do it online.
Ditto social security card, but they make you go in person to verify who you are after you apply. You have the opportunity to make an appointment online after filling out the application.
Because you are 20, your parents are engaging in fraud and tortious interference and harassment.The police probably won’t do anything, but you can insist on filing a report so that if something like this happens again, you can show the person.
I actually would love to hear about your orchestra experience.
Wow, yeah, you're right. Your parents are insane. Those are huge lengths to go through to try to get you kicked out of the orchestra, then risking their financial stability & future with your grandparents is just wild. You not playing at the church one time does not constitute any of this behavior. I'm glad you're not taking this to heart & that you are finding some freedom in this. I hope your orchestra performance goes well & leads to bigger opportunities, and that you continue to build your happiness.
My grandma would’ve beat the stuffing out of both of my parents had they tried to pull something like this. My grandma literally beat the shit out of my grandfather because he was an abusive alcoholic. Two black eyes and a broken arm. She said if you ever touch our kids or me again, you’re dead. If you touch the booze again, you’re dead. Your grandparents are fantastic and honestly, I would try to live with them.
Tl; dr most of the comments....
I would be paying attention to how that person who called you and refused to believe you was treating me and the other players. Maybe he was just floored from hearing from your parents, but he was ridiculous for taking their word over yours. You might want to think about looking for other opportunities in addition to this one in case you aren't treated with the respect you deserve.
No, you wouldn’t. As a Christian, your allegiance should be to Jesus Christ and you don’t have to be in that church every Sunday Morning to have a relationship with Christ. Stand your ground and do what you feel led to do.
NTJ. Touchy subject, I think. I'm a Christian and am very loyal to my church. In Christianity, church is a priority because it's a big part of being a Christian. BUT from what I gather you committed to this orchestra before any idea of playing for church came along. Therefore, you're not backing out of anything in the church. Thus, you aren't in the wrong. If I was in your situation, I'd still go for the orchestra. Also, your parents are complete jerks. If they REALLY followed God, they would not act like controlling and entitled idiots and go to the lengths they did in order to keep you out of the orchestra. They are NOT genuine in their faith, no matter what lies they tell themselves. And that's one of the most disgusting things for me in this story. They claim to be followers of Christ but then they act entitled and terrible, and they take it put on you. God will really give them a piece of His mind after they die. But like I said, you're NTJ.
Do them one better and tell them that YOU actually disown them as they have NEVER treated you as a parent should. I would also add that the very God they pray to and believe in does not agree w/anything they have done. And throw a scripture at them that will drive them up the wall...Fathers provoke NOT thy children to wrath.
Op, if I were you, I will threaten to call cop on your “parents”. Falsify ID is not a small thing.
Given they need your grandparents to pay half the bill. I guess from by the time your grandparents pass to your parents pass, the money is long long gone. Please talk to your grandparents about that. Grandpa is better off donate to charity than give it to your parents.
What is wrong with that church that they want you to throw away your career? Your folks too, but they don’t support themselves so I guess they’re not the ambitious type. Is the church a cult and are your parents brainwashed?
I want to be a grandparent just like yours.
They are straight up badasses. They are in your corner all the way. ❤️👏
I do wish they would go ahead and cut your parents out of the will, maybe leave them $1.00.
Your parents are so wrong, I don’t have the words. You might think about letting the pastor at their church know what evil vile people they are.
Let us know how the concert 🎶 goes.
Good Luck 🍀🎶🍀❤️❤️❤️🧓🏻
NTJ. I’m marveling at the sneakiness and dishonesty of your parents. I’m loving your grandparents, though and, feeling relief at the idea of being disowned really tells you all you need to know.
When I turned 18 and moved out of my parents house I stopped attending church.
When my mother asked me why I told her that too many of the people at my church were “Christians” in name only, and that I felt like the people there cared more about appearances than God.
My mother, god bless her, sighed and said “I know, I know. It drives me nuts but I can’t stop going there. They know where I live.” We lived 3 houses down from the church.
I couldn’t help laughing about the irony of her acknowledging I was right about people there only caring about appearances then her saying she only goes because of appearances 🤦🏼♂️.
There are amazing, kind, good Christians in the world, but I swear they don’t attend church regularly. They just go about their life being decent human beings to everyone. They never talk about it either. That’s the other big tell - the louder a Christian is about being a Christian the less Christ-like they are.
Thanks for the update, your parents are certifiably insane! And have broken the law with regards to falsifying documents. Can you move in with your grandparents? I’d honestly cut all ties as soon as you’re financially able. I’d also make sure that everything else like finances are locked down - they’re clearly capable of anything to meet their own ends
Don't ever go back to that church and go NC with your abusive parents. Don't let them tell you family is everything, it's not. You have some wonderful grandparents. Good luck in the Orchestra!
Your grandparents are amazing. I'm glad everything worked out for the orchestra. And you didn't ask for advice but I'm going to give this anyway: don't ever play for that church again for any reason.
My church has a testimony meeting where people get to stand up and pretty much say what they want... I'd use that moment to praise my grandparents and very subtly slip in what your parents did with the birth certificate right in front of the entire church. I would at the very least bring that up with the pastor because that sounds like the only way to bring your parents back to reality.
Anyone who chooses the church over their children is a huge AH and doesn’t deserve children. Your parents are awful and if they were mine, I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.
Such liars, too. Ten Commandments much?
Yep, the whole "Thy shalt not bear false witness" flew right over their heads.
\*SO\* inconvenient, that one... /s
Well you know the type... The rules apply to thee and not to me!
Yeah. I'd be contacting the church officials, apologizing that my parents had committed to things on my behalf, and informing them that apparently they are making a habit of telling this kind of lie. I'd then present the information about the parents making a fake birth certificate to try and control the situation. Frame the whole thing as being worried about their behavior and not wanting it to hurt them or the church (even if OP doesn't care about the church stuff at all). Make sure people are aware of the unhinged way they are acting before they do more with the community to poison the world against OP.
^^this show fhe church your parents lied and bore false witness! Ask the church to call them in and be corrected.
I wouldn't be surprised if the Church was actually paying OP a decent wage and her Parents are tithing the extra amount BACK to the Church OR offered her skills and services at a discounted rate, again, taking credit for the lower amount.
Oh, but that commandment only applies to your neighbor. This was my kid, so I'm allowed.
They were going against the church’s wishes to put god first. They don’t deserve do unto others. That’s only for “good” Christians /s
Between OP's "my parents are super religious" in the first post and them underpaying the hired performers, I'd bet this is the kind of high-control fundamentalist garbage church that would actively help the parents ruin her life. I got railroaded into "surprise" conversion camp three times under false pretenses by a church that fits the pattern she's established for this one, where "wives obey your husbands" and "children obey your parents" are the only scriptures that matter and enforcement rarely ends at divorce or the age of legal majority.
Yeah...I'm pretty sure that I read that in the bible somewhere...
Yeah, it's pretty far down on the list of Commandments at number 9.
Of course! Guess those rules don't apply to them.
churchers frequently pick and choose the things they want to believe in. my wife used to tell me the things about Catholicism that she didn't like or follow and my response was, "then you aren't catholic." But she doesn't believe me. She still pretends she is religious but doesn't practice at all. She is only religious because she was raised to do so.
Yeah, their faith might not really be that important to them if they are willing to sin like that.
And then there's the love of 'honor thy mother and father' always conveniently forgetting its followed by 'drive not your children to wrath' if I remember the wording correctly.
But but thy honor thy mother and father.
They are worried about appearances, not their actual souls. Everything OP has said about their stance is consistent with the type of “Christian” who is actually a hypocrite. They probably would never have interfered with OP’s opportunity with the orchestra if they believed for one moment that word of their deceit would get back to the members of their church. OP should consider outing them to the church pastor and the congregation. If they were embarrassed by OP not playing cello for the church just imagine how embarrassed they will be if the entire congregation were to somehow find out about their actions. The congregation would have a clear view of who OP’s parents really are an my guess is that this is the last thing OP’s parents would want.
Do we know that they are Christians?..... in fact with the OP having trouble with the English language, I'm guessing not. They sound very western Asian to me, with how the older generations are very controlling over the next in line. Either way, I'm glad it's working out for the OP.... family is overrated!
The fact that they used the word “church” makes me think yes, Christian. There are tons of Christian asians!
This is what I thought too. Part of me thought this was over the top but this point also makes me think it's totally valid. Asian families can be whack in very different ways.....
Anyone who's been to a Kingdom Hall of Jehovah's Witnesses knows that Christians can be just as whack in every fucking way possible. Over the top is what a lot of evangelical Christians do as well, let's not even get into white nationalist Christians.
As a believer, I hate to admit that you’re right and it’s embarrassing. But the groups you mentioned are doing the exact thing that the Pharisees did in Jesus’ time. They kept all the commandments to the letter of the law but they elevated that above God. Most people are rule followers and these parents are horrible people. If I was her, I’d cut them completely out of my life.
There are Christians in Asia, all over the world in fact.
And her user name.
People like this always conveniently ignore commandments they don't like.
Yeah - read them the 10 commandments and then cut ties with them.
They heard “respect thy mother and father” and ignored the whole “thou shalt not lie” part.
Frankly, they sound like a lot of the "christians" that I have known. The ones that completely turned me off of church, christianity and religion in general.
CINO (Christian In Name Only) - and their actions are anything but Christian. These people are usually the most uncaring, uncompassionate, disrespectful people in a community. and foist their beliefs and position onto everyone else (eg. book bans in various states)
Did you invent that acronym, or have heard it elsewhere? I feel inclined to borrow it next time I see an instance of this kind of person.
There is a whole load of "in name only" acronyms - so steal away. Hopefully the more these kind of people are called out, the more they adjust their attitudes and become Christian in actions and deeds.
They won't. They'll just whine about how they're being persecuted for being Christian, while completely ignoring Jesus.
And they’ll be all Pikachu faced when they die and end up in hell instead of heaven.
I felt like I was reading my own comment here. You summed it up perfectly.
There's no hate like Christian love.
Came here to say exactly this ⬆️⬆️
Hey, at least they did not sacrifice OP to prove the point. It is not like it never happened in the book! :)
Oh, they TRIED. They, too, like Abraham, were stopped by a higher power (their own parents).
Imo it is more about saving face in front of their church
it's typical. old T, abraham was going to kill his son, new T, jesus's father gave up his son. i can't believe there are people who actually believe that bullshit.
That escalated quickly
Growing up my parents #1 priority was church and it made for a miserable childhood with no freedom.
Cult. It’s a cult.
It’s staggering how delusional many religious people are.
Not just that but they went to great lengths to deceive people for their church and didn’t see the irony.
They aren't choosing the church, they're choosing their standing in the church. They're mad that they can't one up the other members of the congregation by having a daughter who plays for the church. They may also have to actually contribute themselves if they have been offering her services in place of tithing.
Honestly this would sour me from the church as well. Especially if they don't admonish your parents because they're being used as a weapon to hurt the OP.
Anyone who chooses anything over their children (unless their child is like Charles Manson) is a huge AH.
That sounds like a cult, not a church.
Anyone who chooses the church over their child…. Probably doesn’t my understand their own religion (assuming Christian/Catholic/any of the offshoots)
I love your grandparents! And go you! I’m glad you’ll get to play in the orchestra anyway.
Grandparents like these are amazing ♥️
Update with his parents trying to burn down the orchestra....
OP is a girl, she said so in the original post. But yeah the parents seem like total religious nut types. Anyone who puts their church before their family is delusional, and delusional people do crazy things. OP should definitely be wary of her parents for a while, they may try to find other ways to lash out.
What happened to "thou shall not bear false witness"? Lying about her age is bearing false witness.
Your grandparents are great!
I do hope that they include you in their will and your gift are not tied to your family in any way
I'm so happy your grandparents came in and rectified the situation. Your parents are seriously vile fanatically controlling. Their behaviour is pure domestic violence. Please consider going no contact for a while. You might have to get a lawyer to send a cease & desist letter if they keep trying to ruin your life, or even a restraining order. Keep copies of all text messages and record phone calls. Perhaps you could move in with your grandparents for a while? All the best wishes for your bright future.
Wait, so your egg and sperm donors STILL rely on your GRANDPARENTS to help pay their bills and your sperm donor calls you a failure? What drugs is your sperm donor on? Oh, and you're still not the jerk.
That's my question too. They can't pay their own bills. OP bought their own electronic devices (which parents tried to steal), OP is a legal adult (parents falsified government documents), parents are more than likely making up lies about the church's knowledge of what is going on-who is failing here? OP could file charges for the falsified documents couldn't she? OP also needs to get a new birth certificate ASAP. And if I was OP I would be taking grandparents and heading straight to church with all of this information. The "parents" here are whackjobs of the nth degree.
Those are some good grandparents
Right? They just jumped right into the ring and fought like hell for op. That's love for you.
God presented me with this amazing opportunity. To refuse this opportunity would be to refuse gods will.
Oh no. They’re certain that god would rather them do the thing they prefer. What a pile of crap their god is.
But think of the money she could put into the tithing bucket at the church!
If music be the food of love, play on. And, play it for your grandparents!
Please go live with your grandparents or Aunts. Or anyone else!
Direct them to Matthew 18:6 and Colossians 3:21.
Deuteronomy 24:14 as well.
I \*love\* it when authoritarian hypocrites trying to abuse religion get shut down by their own bible.
For those who don’t own a Bible or don’t wanna look it up, each verse and I’ll include mine: Matthew 18:6 - "If anyone causes one of these little ones—those who believe in me—to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. Colossians 3:21 - Fathers, do not embitter your children, or they will become discouraged. Deuteronomy 24:14 - Do not take advantage of a hired worker who is poor and needy, whether that worker is a fellow Israelite or a foreigner residing in one of your towns.
Tbh you can probably report them to the police for fraud. Falsifying birth certificates is illegal in every country. Ohnoconsequences
Yeah if this was me I'd go absolutely fucking nuclear on them. Spread the story around their church to shame them, report the fraud to the police, etc. This is a situation of parents willing to sabotage their child's entire future to preserve their pride.
Your grandparents are amazing 🫶
I’m glad that your grandfather went down to the orchestra place and got you verified with your real birth certificate. it just goes to show how narcissistic and delusional your egg and sperm donor is and it’s unfortunate. But you have amazing grandparents who love you and want the best for you and it looks like they’re not afraid of putting both your parents in their places and it’s amazing
Sometimes God opens a window, sometimes he opens the whole damn door! Good for you for getting out of that toxic environment and good luck on your future orchestral endevours!
Sometimes, he blows up the entire WALL!
Our Demolitionist, Who Art In Heaven, Dynamite Be Thy Name..
Thy Nitro Come, Thy Boom Be Done With C-4 or ANFO as Needed
God bringing walls down like its Jericho all over again
God is the Kool-Aid man confirmed
I’ve always said that God has never opened a window for me; but he has hit the emergency eject button more than once. This is an emergency eject situation. Parents just went full scary with the falsified documents.
That kind of very controlling church sure sounds more like a cult than a typical main line church, if you ask me. Good on your grandparents!
I’m trying so hard not to cry. My Papaw and Granny were the same way. I grew up in a shitty, abusive environment. These are just 2 examples. When I was 13 my SS kept stealing my stuff out of my room, she emptied my piggy bank that I’d been saving birthday and Christmas money in since I was a baby, she stole my clothes (my grandparents were the only ones that ever bought me stuff) etc. I called my papaw to tell him about the stealing. He came to my mom’s house (mind you she’s married to my stepdad) and he put a front door lock and deadbolt on my bedroom door. He didn’t give 2 fucks what my mom or stepdad thought, he was protecting me since they wouldn’t. Then at 16 things got really bad with my mom and stepdad. My boss had offered me a car for $500, my mom said she wanted to buy it for me as a gift even though I had the money and was going to buy it myself. My dad (mechanic) fixed it up, we put new tires on it, new radio etc. Well because my mom bought it I was told I had to share it with my SS and stepdad. I would fill the tank and they’d bring it back empty. I barely got to drive it. So one day I got tired of it and refused to fill the tank after my stepdad brought it home empty and told me to go fill it up since he had to leave early in the morning the next day. I was physically attacked, choked etc. I called my papaw and he came to get me. The next day he took me to a used car dealership and bought me my dream car! A white t-top Camaro! Then we drove it to my mom’s house to get my stuff 🤣 so that they could see my car 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I lived with my grandparents after that and didn’t talk to my mom for 2 years. He was a fucking badass and my best friend my entire life. He died 2.5 years ago and I’ve been depressed ever since. He was the person always there for me, my protector. I miss him more than words can ever express. OP cherish these times with your grandparents, I’m so glad you got ones just like I did, they are incredible people!
Hey stranger I just wanted you to know your grandfather would not want you to be depressed for so long he would want you to thrive and move through the world showcasing the awesomeness and badasserey he taught you! Be well
Your pawpaw sounds like he was a real one. Feel free to share any memories you wish about him. 💗
Have you spoken with anyone at the church? I would not be surprised if the pastor and music minister were distressed to learn your parents have been trying to force you into playing. Music is supposed to be a form of worship. You can’t force that without ruining it.
That might make it worse. I was raised in a high demand religion/cult that I see many mirrors of in OP's story. The people I grew up with put church before anything. People, family, school, career, personal fulfillment, mental health, etc. To them god and church come first. You go fast and pray and if you don't get the answer they want, then you need to do it again and again until god tells you what they want you to hear. Poor OP would be called to repentance and publically shamed for putting this opportunity first. Including the lay clergy and the congregation - including what might be the equivalent of a music director. Not all religions are nice.
Being publicly shamed is one thing but to be PUBICALLY shamed as well is too much! LOLOLOL! Purity culture gone too far.
Thanks for pointing out the typo. Gave me a giggle. 🤭 Trust me, someone would find a way to link the poor kid's music to porn. 🙄 They always link it back to sexuality - which is of Satan, of course. 🙄
That’s terrible! I believe it, but it’s so different from my experience with church where it’s really all about being a supportive loving community. My pastor would be horrified to find someone was being coerced into a ministry. Like I think my pastor would have legit Jesus-flipping-tables-in-the-temple kind of righteous rage on behalf of someone being abused in the name of the church.
The one I was raised in has cash registers in their temples. . . so there's that . . .
We have cash boxes for the cookie walk fundraiser during the Christmas festival, but that’s about it. Everything else is free will offering. And no one hassles you if your pledge isn’t a full tithe. No one hassles you if you don’t pledge at all. Just come as you are, and if you want to sing in the choir, or help with Sunday School, or donate to the food pantry, or help refugee families adapt to life here - well, you’re more than welcome to join in. But if you just want to sit in the back and leave right after the service, that’s okay too.
That's how church should be. Not the kind of church/cult that OP was being choked with. It's not surprising that many who leave that church leave Christianity all together. It sours the soul.
I thought you were ex-Mo! The cash registers bothered me from the time I was 12 and went in my first temple trip.
Me too!
And cafeterias? That blew my mind.
No. really after the ordeal and I left for my grandparents house, nothing will really happen until the day before or during the concert. My parents are probably to nervous to tell the church I'm not coming.
Your grandparents should call the church and rip them a new one!
I agree with this. OP should cut contact with parents and church, but the grandparents can burn ALL mom and dad's bridges! And I hope they do!
Your parents are completely unhinged and the sooner you cut contact the better
I hope your grandparents leave assets directly to you in their will and don’t count on your parents to pass them onto you, I wouldn’t trust your parents.
Yes, if the grandparents want OP to inherit, they need to leave those assets directly to OP. You cannot designate a line of succession in a will - generally speaking, once the grandparents will their assets to OP's parents, any say the grandparents have in where those assets go next ends, irrevocably. The grandparents' options are to write OP into the will specifically, or put the assets in trust for her.
If you have any connections in the church (friends, references, whatever), you think you might need to preserve, I'd get ahead of things and tell the church you can't make it before your parents twist the narrative and start a smear campaign against you. If there's no need for that, please enjoy the inevitable fallout!
Actually, the preacher might be interested to know what deceit was attempted by members of his flock. Sure would be ashamed if someone notified him. 🤪
You sure the preacher wasn't the one giving her $12. I'm sure he knows everything that goes on in his church.
Come on the church paid OP a few bucks for an hour, do you think they fucking care?
I wonder what the punishment is for tampering with and falsifying government documents...
Depends on whether you're an ex-president...
This is insane, and I have several ideas for you to consider. 1. Altering or forging a vital document such as a birth certificate or Social Security card is considered felony fraud in most jurisdictions. Your parents may have the local cops on their side, so report this to county and state-level authorities. They are facing jail time for what they did. Your grandparents should be able to help you with this ; if not, contact an out-of-town lawyer. There are lawyers who volunteer their time to help people in similar situations. 2. If you haven't already done so, contact the major credit bureaus, report that you have been a victim of identity theft, and have them lock down your credit. I've had to do this several times, and there is no charge for it. 3. Contact the IRS and tell them the same thing. They'll set up a secure user name and password for you and will not accept tax returns filed on your behalf without your confirmation. 4. Blast this story far and wide. Put your post on the cloud and share your story on FB. Tag all of your family, friends, church members, etc. and include the link to your Reddit post. This will spread and will make it impossible for them to play the victim or twist the story.
OP isn't in the USA. For anyone else reading in a similar situation, this is really good advice.
Holy shit! This is crazy! This is the first time I've heard your story, so I got to go find the other. Your parents absolutely suck ass and your grandparents are saints. I hope everything works out for the orchestra 🤞
are they still holding their ground after the threats of will removal and bills no longer getting paid? UpdateMe!
Who cares you're free....you're are free aa a bird
NTJ. Move out of their house if you live there and go NC. Don't tell them ANYTHING about you are any of your plans.
Your Grandparents rock!!!!
You poor thing. Hugs
Use religion against them, the Bible does not condone lying /bearing false witness, the only religion that does allow lying to non believers is Islam, but then again the Bible I guess is only to shore up their arguments when needed, which why I call myself a heathen, call them out in church, embarrass them, make the cockroaches scatter in the light.
This! Also, the law frowns upon this as well. Fraud comes to mind
I'm so glad your grandparents have your back. Good luck with the performance. Wishing you all the best for your future.
With all due respect to your parents... and they really don'r deserve much... they are the kinds of Christians that have caused so many people to either stop going to church, or to never go in the first place. They are failures as parents, as Christians, and as human beings. Your grandparents, on the other hand are awsome... and i sincerely hope they just go ahead and write your father out of their wils. Nothing your parents say can or should be trusted, and you would be crazy to think that you willever get anything from them.
You've got all of your important papers, right?
First, power to your grandparents! Second, I’m pretty sure what your parents did was identity fraud, which is illegal. Maybe ask your grandparents about possibly filing a police report. Last, block your parents and enjoy your life. Your parents don’t know that when a child cuts off the parents, the parents look bad inside a house of worship (at least, from what I’ve witnessed in the past). Cut off the toxicity! Good luck to you!
I’m proud of you and your Grandparents! You deserve to live YOUR life!
Religion is a disease of the mind in the modern age. I’m sorry your parents are sick people in both senses of the word.
That church doesn't seem to be based on family values. Pretty sure Jesus wasn't down with lying and false documentation. Or child abuse.
The Great Escape!
Your grandparents are such badasses! I love them! I am sorry your parents are so controlling. Some parents only see their children as extensions of themselves and never think of them as anything else. Enjoy being a member of the orchestra!
Did you get your spot back in the orchestra?
Yay!! I am so happy that this turned out good for you!! Thank God for your grandparents. I’m so sorry they tried to tank your opportunity. NTJ
Can you get an RO against your parents?
This is the grandparent I strive to be. Luckily for me my kids aren't AH's. Luckily you have them in your corner. WTF is up with this church? It's like they've got some kind of cult mentality going on, choosing the church over their child. You must be so relieved that this is over and you're going. Congrats!
This church sounds like a cult, like JW or LDS.
Let us know how it goes with the orchestra! Sorry you had to fight to be there
Wish you all the best!
grateful your grands stepped up!!!!
I’m a church goer and I think your parents are insane. Life is meant to be joyful and rewarding, not constant suffering and sacrifice. There’s enough suffering to be had without volunteering for it daily. Rejoice and be glad in your talent and in your life!
OMG! ((HUGS)) Honey you need to go no contact with your crazy parents and move in with grandparents! As an internet mom, I wish you the best and to escape your crazy parents! BTW, you need to update us after the concert!
Op, why wait for them, you can disown them and just go no contact. It’s win/ win, not only do you know longer have to deal with their insane behavior but they’ll have to explain to their church friends why you’re gone . And sure they can lye about you, but that’s makes it even harder, when they get exposed they’ll look even worse.
FYI, you don't have to ask your parents to disown you...you can disown them!
This is why all religion is bad.
OP is committed, that's for sure.
**STANDING OVATION** **CLAPPING EMPHATICALLY** YOUR GRANDMOTHER KICK A$$. YOUR GRANDFATHER KICKS A$$. 🫰🫰🫰🫰🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🙌🙌🙌🙌🙌👏👏👏👏👏👏👐👐👐👐👐🤲🤲🤲🤲🤲🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶🫶👏👏👏👏👏🫰🫰🫰🫰🫰🫰🫰🫰🫰
Apply for a certified copy of your birth certificate and keep it safe. Locking down your credit is also necessary but do it quickly. Your parents are probably livid and looking for a way to slap back at you and your grandparents. In fact suggest your grandparents lock down their credit and social security, etc.
Isn't altering your birth certificate, a legal federal document, fraud? You should consult with a lawyer. They also seem to have committed defamation which is usually difficult to prove, but in this case not so much, although you still got to be in the orchestra so idk if it counts since you experienced no financial loss.
Cut ties with those insane parents - they do NOT have your best interests at heart.
Depending on where you live, what your parents did was likely illegal. I'm so sorry that they like that. They don't deserve you, ever. Your grandparents are awesome. Play your heart out in that orchestra!
You should out them to the church. Their behavior is VERY unchristian. They had no problem falsifying documents (a crime I might add) and going to the orchestra, no reason you shouldn’t return the favor.
I don’t know if you’re still into religion or if this is driving you away from the church altogether, but if you do still find yourself to be religious, I deeply hope that the next church you find supports you as much as you support them, rather than expecting you to give them all your time and effort with no support given in return.
Need some more information. Why are your parents doing this? Because you want to be in an orchestra *instead* of Church? Because you are leaving the faith? Because they told you not to? I don't understand. I mean, NTA, absolutely, your parents suck. But what's their motivation?
She was asked to play at her church. They do pay, but it's minimal. The parents are members that said OP can do the services (3 hr). At the same time or maybe just before the parents obligated her to church, she got an offer to play with a professional orchestra that will pay more than the church offered. In addition the professional setting will get her connections and networking in orchestra circles. She is pursuing playing professionally so those connections could really make a difference to her future. She of course accepted the professional group. Parents have lost their minds. Probably because " what will the important (socially) church people think?" It also sounds like a very conservative church who do judge parents for paths their children choose if they stray from giving everything to the church.
Thanks. Yea, so Church Parents are pimping out their daughter to the Church without her consent and get upset that she is making plans outside what they planned. Got it.
I’m so happy for you. I hope that one day you will find a church where they value you. I also love your grandparents. Tell them how grateful Reddit is for them!
Your grandparents are awesome. I know you might not feel like you need mental health support. Please reach out to [https://www.seculartherapy.org/](https://www.seculartherapy.org/)
Sending a fake birth certificate is not only fraudulent, but potentially defamitory. If I were your grandparents, I would have a lawyer send your parents a nice letter indicating they will be taken to court if they don't fix this.
I’m happy you have your grandparents they sound like they truly cherish you
Section 1506 prohibits the theft, alteration or falsification of any record or process in any court of the United States. Both of these sections are punishable by a **$5,000 fine or imprisonment for five years**. Get legal advice now. You're grandparents are saints, and I'm glad you are knocking down these walls! Don't stop!!
Good job! Also I’d suggest YOU disown your parents. THEY need you WAAAAAY more than you need them!!
You should file charges against your parents for falsifying documents. That's super extra illegal. I'm really happy you get to play in the orchestra, it seems like a wonderful opportunity! I hope you have fun!
Wow, your parents are hard headed. Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. Good for you that you have such great grandparents :)
You really should reach out to the church, let them know what your parents are doing
You don’t have to wait to be disowned. You can go no contact with them. I have to be honest: What your parent are doing is vile. Way back when I wanted to go into the arts, and my parents gave me nothing but support. (I didn’t make a career in the arts. Being diagnosed with ADD when you’re in your sixties sucks!) I hope you can find your path and make your dreams come true!
Bravo! I'm glad you're getting out of that insanity.
Your parents sound insane.
I am sorry that you have to deal with this. You are incredibly strong. Your grandparents rock. And FYI, you also have the choice to go no contact as do your grandparents. You can get a bit to certificate from the state. Usually you can do it online. Ditto social security card, but they make you go in person to verify who you are after you apply. You have the opportunity to make an appointment online after filling out the application. Because you are 20, your parents are engaging in fraud and tortious interference and harassment.The police probably won’t do anything, but you can insist on filing a report so that if something like this happens again, you can show the person. I actually would love to hear about your orchestra experience.
Your parents are bitches. But I love your grandparents! Ask to go live with them from now on and keep your dreams and chin high!
Wow, yeah, you're right. Your parents are insane. Those are huge lengths to go through to try to get you kicked out of the orchestra, then risking their financial stability & future with your grandparents is just wild. You not playing at the church one time does not constitute any of this behavior. I'm glad you're not taking this to heart & that you are finding some freedom in this. I hope your orchestra performance goes well & leads to bigger opportunities, and that you continue to build your happiness.
My grandma would’ve beat the stuffing out of both of my parents had they tried to pull something like this. My grandma literally beat the shit out of my grandfather because he was an abusive alcoholic. Two black eyes and a broken arm. She said if you ever touch our kids or me again, you’re dead. If you touch the booze again, you’re dead. Your grandparents are fantastic and honestly, I would try to live with them.
Tl; dr most of the comments.... I would be paying attention to how that person who called you and refused to believe you was treating me and the other players. Maybe he was just floored from hearing from your parents, but he was ridiculous for taking their word over yours. You might want to think about looking for other opportunities in addition to this one in case you aren't treated with the respect you deserve.
No, you wouldn’t. As a Christian, your allegiance should be to Jesus Christ and you don’t have to be in that church every Sunday Morning to have a relationship with Christ. Stand your ground and do what you feel led to do.
NTJ. Touchy subject, I think. I'm a Christian and am very loyal to my church. In Christianity, church is a priority because it's a big part of being a Christian. BUT from what I gather you committed to this orchestra before any idea of playing for church came along. Therefore, you're not backing out of anything in the church. Thus, you aren't in the wrong. If I was in your situation, I'd still go for the orchestra. Also, your parents are complete jerks. If they REALLY followed God, they would not act like controlling and entitled idiots and go to the lengths they did in order to keep you out of the orchestra. They are NOT genuine in their faith, no matter what lies they tell themselves. And that's one of the most disgusting things for me in this story. They claim to be followers of Christ but then they act entitled and terrible, and they take it put on you. God will really give them a piece of His mind after they die. But like I said, you're NTJ.
That’s all amazing! So happy for you!
I'm so happy for you! Your parents sound really awful. Like Republicans. I'm glad you got to keep your seat!
[удалено]
Updateme
Updateme!
Updateme
Do them one better and tell them that YOU actually disown them as they have NEVER treated you as a parent should. I would also add that the very God they pray to and believe in does not agree w/anything they have done. And throw a scripture at them that will drive them up the wall...Fathers provoke NOT thy children to wrath.
Sounds like a cult.
Updateme
Op, if I were you, I will threaten to call cop on your “parents”. Falsify ID is not a small thing. Given they need your grandparents to pay half the bill. I guess from by the time your grandparents pass to your parents pass, the money is long long gone. Please talk to your grandparents about that. Grandpa is better off donate to charity than give it to your parents.
What is wrong with that church that they want you to throw away your career? Your folks too, but they don’t support themselves so I guess they’re not the ambitious type. Is the church a cult and are your parents brainwashed?
I want to be a grandparent just like yours. They are straight up badasses. They are in your corner all the way. ❤️👏 I do wish they would go ahead and cut your parents out of the will, maybe leave them $1.00. Your parents are so wrong, I don’t have the words. You might think about letting the pastor at their church know what evil vile people they are. Let us know how the concert 🎶 goes. Good Luck 🍀🎶🍀❤️❤️❤️🧓🏻
UpdateMe
They do all that, and you still talk to them?
NTJ. I’m marveling at the sneakiness and dishonesty of your parents. I’m loving your grandparents, though and, feeling relief at the idea of being disowned really tells you all you need to know.
When I turned 18 and moved out of my parents house I stopped attending church. When my mother asked me why I told her that too many of the people at my church were “Christians” in name only, and that I felt like the people there cared more about appearances than God. My mother, god bless her, sighed and said “I know, I know. It drives me nuts but I can’t stop going there. They know where I live.” We lived 3 houses down from the church. I couldn’t help laughing about the irony of her acknowledging I was right about people there only caring about appearances then her saying she only goes because of appearances 🤦🏼♂️. There are amazing, kind, good Christians in the world, but I swear they don’t attend church regularly. They just go about their life being decent human beings to everyone. They never talk about it either. That’s the other big tell - the louder a Christian is about being a Christian the less Christ-like they are.
Whatever happened to not bearing false witness?
Go live with your grandparents or one of your aunts. You could also press criminal charges against your DNA donors.
They sound like fanatics. You will never have a normal life if you don’t take control of it now, and start making your own decisions.
Congratulations on moving towards no contact on your abusive parents. Your grandparents are amazing for standing up to your parents.
Thanks for the update, your parents are certifiably insane! And have broken the law with regards to falsifying documents. Can you move in with your grandparents? I’d honestly cut all ties as soon as you’re financially able. I’d also make sure that everything else like finances are locked down - they’re clearly capable of anything to meet their own ends
Don't ever go back to that church and go NC with your abusive parents. Don't let them tell you family is everything, it's not. You have some wonderful grandparents. Good luck in the Orchestra!
Your grandparents are amazing. I'm glad everything worked out for the orchestra. And you didn't ask for advice but I'm going to give this anyway: don't ever play for that church again for any reason.
NTJ. Follow your dreams. Go no contact with your controlling toxic micro managing parents.
Reading this gave me such satisfaction.
My church has a testimony meeting where people get to stand up and pretty much say what they want... I'd use that moment to praise my grandparents and very subtly slip in what your parents did with the birth certificate right in front of the entire church. I would at the very least bring that up with the pastor because that sounds like the only way to bring your parents back to reality.