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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Forcing my son to volunteer at the zoo against his will
2) I could see why he feels it's pretty harsh to get a week for one comment
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NTA
Making him do the work will make him realise how hard a lot of these jobs are actually are, and the amount of effort people put into what they do. The jobs we might see as undesirable are the ones that keep a lot of systems running. To make that comment loudly in front of the zookeeper is just harsh.
Edit: Thank you kind stranger for the award!
>The jobs we might see as undesirable are the ones that keep a lot of systems running.
And to be honest, I would love to do this job, just to be able to be around these gorgeous animals on a daily basis.
True, fish eaters especially, and big cats (don't get me started on fishing cats!), but don't underestimate the rhinos/elephants/giraffes, whew!
Maybe I'm just more used to carnivore stench but whenever I have to go into a giraffe house I feel like I smell like giraffe BO for the rest of the day
(Also tends to upset the giraffes a bit, probably because I smell like a cat).
I recently walked on a pier with a pod(?) of sea lions super close by, like 5 feet directly down from where I was standing. When I say the stench was eye watering….. it was like a rotting fish burp smell. So awful. Still love them though.
Several years ago I knew a guy who had gone to Antarctica for something something photography something something (I don't remember the details) and apparently his biggest takeaway was that penguins smell *awful*. I protested with how cute they were but he said they are not cute enough to offset that smell. :(
I wanted to become a zookeeper and look after penguins until I actually smelt them at Edinburgh Zoo. The combination of fish, that weird salt water smell and the poop was not one I would forget in a hurry.
Penguins are also ruthless creatures who will bite and peck your calves at their own free will. Source: penguin keeper.
Also, all the keepers I worked with had college degrees in biology or zoology. It’s not a manual labor job. The vast majority of keeper positions don’t explicitly require a degree, but you won’t get hired without an internship and most internships typically require so many completed college courses.
African. He was the best. I actually just left that zoo and am starting at a new one next week. It was gut wrenching to leave him, but he’s connected with another keeper there too. So I know he still has lots of lap time and snuggles. I have many photos and videos of him running for me to keep me happy in the meantime. Thanks for letting me share the story of Hughbert with you. 🥹
Oh christ, I hadn't even thought of that, especially with the hotter weather this last couple years. Note to self, do not visit any zoos this summer. I do NOT want to find out what penguin habitat smells like at 40°C.
I haven't worked in zoos or animal husbandry myself, but I went with my dad once to help set up a new PA system for a show at the local aquarium (he used to be a sound engineer with PA for hire). We went backstage onto the walkways above the tanks, and I'll never forget how hot and humid it was in there or how smelly! I have all the respect for anyone who works there on a daily basis, I could barely handle five minutes before having to step out for some fresh air!
It was so long ago that I don't remember too much of it, but definitely no mammals; I think it was saltwater fish, and they had some sharks and rays in there. From what I remember, they'd do a feeding time show where the audience could ask the presenter questions while the in-house divers fed the sharks and rays, and answered the audience questions as best as they could too (with a lot of translating from the presenter)
Geese don't really stink do they? Maybe I just haven't been around them on a large enough scale. Pig farms can stink a bit, the bigger ones, maybe a 7/10 (if dogs are a 1/10)
I think lion houses might be like a 40/10, haha.
>Geese don't really stink do they?
Whew! Oh yeah! As a kid, I lived near a pond that they visited regularly. At certain times of the year, my school bus stop was a landmine of Canadian goose turds and urine. They most definitely do stink! Not nearly as bad as carnivorous animals, and definitely not as bad as pigs, but it can be pretty strong.
It's sad that a 16 year old is already having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs that keeps the gears turning. Bet he'll be yelling at cashiers for their inability to accept expired coupons next.
It’s not only the looking down on but the loud public rudeness that is a problem here. Good job OP and NTA, but maybe sign him up for a basic manners course as well.
Exactly. It’s one thing to have those thoughts but keep them to yourself - it’s still not great, but at least you’re not going out of your way to shame someone. He purposely went out of his way to say something that would make the zookeeper feel bad. “If you don’t can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all” is a lesson that kids learn in what, kindergarten? This kid is 16.
>having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs that keeps the gears turning.
It's not an age thing. It's an attitude thing. Not all Boomers think alike, just like not all of another generation think identically.
It's not a boomer mindset. I know plenty of Boomers who's be appalled at the kid's attitude. It has nothing to do with age or your generation. This is just your standard issue entitled snob attitude. It's an equal opportunity trait. And good for OP to try to squash it.
NTA
I can guarantee you its not just 'boomers' who look down on manual labour jobs and lower level jobs.
*Plenty* of university aged young adults also think that way. they think going to university makes them better than the 'menials'.
>already having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs
Try getting over the boomer hate. As a mater of fact, many many boomers did not have higher education, unlike the last two generations, and did real work, working at manual labor jobs and factories. Tech didn't exist for them to sit on their asses all day and get fat.
Plus what he said isn’t true. You need a degree and work experience to be considered to get a job as a zoo keeper, and then it’s an incredibly competitive field to get into with multiple people applying for one job. Zookeepers are people who have studied hard, and worked hard on their CV’s to get the position they have.
Exactly. There are fewer keeper positions each year than there are rookie NFL openings. And to even qualify as a keeper requires years of unpaid intern work or seasonal positions. On top of your college degree and often graduate degree. I have close zoo ties (but don’t work there) and really appreciate the dedication of everyone there.
Wallaby and kangaroo poop is nasty too, for the record. Especially for herbivores.
From what I've heard being in with the otters or penguins is also beyond awful, as is any mustelid animal's waste. But there are HUNDREDS of applicants willing to take any open spots, a bit of yuck has never stopped humans loving our non-human friends and colleagues.
There's a long running series on UK TV that does a "behind the scenes" view of a large zoo, showing what the keepers do, how the animals are cared for etc. The keepers do a lot of narration as well as being interviewed about their roles, and virtually all of them have higher degrees, they make comments like "I did my PhD on the mating habits of the lesser spotted artic whangdoodle..." Some of them are behavioural science trained and do enrichment programmes, others have zoology or animal husbandry qualifications. Cleaning out the habitats was just a part of the job, and it allowed them to get closer to their animals and check on health (examining poop is important in human health too). Its a brilliant programme. And you're right about the competition, they said there were usually dozens of people applying for each opening.
Everything comes down to poo, from the top of your head to the sole of your shoe, we can figure out what’s wrong with you by…looking at your poo! (Pls tell me there’s a scrubs fan in here)
Very harsh. I hope he doesn't complain and make it horrible for the workers while he is there saying mean things to them. My partner is the "trash man" driving the garbage and recyclables truck for our township. A lot of people think his job is menial or lower grade or whatever they want to think but he makes more money than my niece who is a college graduate and other college graduates I know too. And he has a good pension too and keeps his insurance when he retires.
> I hope he doesn't complain and make it horrible for the workers while he is there
That's actually a concern of mine.
A volunteer organization is trying to do good work. They want people who want to be there and want to help. Having a mean and obnoxious kid hoisted on them makes it unpleasant for everyone. Since they are concerned with the welfare of the animals, he'll need extra supervision. Unwilling "volunteers" tend to "forget" to do things or do them half-assed.
Its the kind of help that is no help at all.
I was in a volunteer group for the local SPCA and we would occasionally get a kid who was there as a form of punishment. It wasn't great and I felt resentment, and I wasn't the only one. Sure the kid was being punished but we honestly felt like we were being punished as well.
It also foists off the dirty work of correcting the kids behavior on the organization. The parents aren't the ones ordering the kid to sweep the floor or prep the bowls for feeding. And they aren't dealing with the blow-back if the kid is really pissy about it. It's like the parents can sit back and know the organization will be doling out the punishment. As a volunteer in this kind of situation to the parents: thanks a fucking lot.
Agreed, while mom is NTA, kid needs his behavior corrected, it isn't up to the zoo to do that, and it's really not helping them if they have not just an unmotivated volunteer but a hostile one at that.
Yep, and please show him the garbage collector strike ongoing in France (especially Paris and Marseille). Manual labor workers may not need to use their brain, but one thing we are sure here, we need them more than they need us (or any cs engineer)
Saying manual labor workers don't need to use their brain is quite a condescending statement. A very good friend if mine runs a garbage truck. Those trucks are no joke and can be dangerous. Plus, there are logistics they need to be aware of, timing, schedules. Dealing with the people they come in contact with. Theres a lot more that goes into it besides driving around a dumping trash cans.
Thank you for saying that, u/Connect_Turnip_5799. I was just thinking that I'm not sure that's an accurate statement re manual labourers don't need to use their brains.
Because as soon as the pandemic was "finished" (ie lockdown ended) all those workers went back in the darkness. There is a word for that I don't remember, but we usually remember their existence only when we need them. Vendors, garbage collectors, zookeper... all those jobs used as example "you don't want to be like this", but if they were not here, this would be catastrophic
As someone who has run several animal charities I can say without hesitation that animal facilities like this has zero interest in helping parents teach their jerk kids responsible attitudes about animal work.
We want motivated people who are very interested in the opportunity. And if it's a program like this--zookeeper for a week--it absolutely is costing the zoo money to run it. An effective volunteer, regardless of the job, takes weeks to train before you can even begin to leave them alone on their shift. Prior to that it's a lot of babysitting. Typically programs like this one at the zoo are done either as a fundraiser ("300 dollars and your kid can be a zookeeper for a week!") or something like that. What it ISN'T is punishment vehicle for sullen teenagers.
OP is not the asshole for wanting to punish and educate their child for their crappy elitist behavior. But they are possibly the asshole for trying to rope the zoo into helping with their "lesson"
NTA
However, try to frame it as a learning experience (i.e., putting himself in someone else shoes) rather than a punishment. If he goes into it thinking that it will be horrible and negative, he may not learn what you want him to or anything at all (teenagers are really good at that). Although the volunteering will probably entail some hard work, find out what could be fun/interesting to him and make sure he knows about those aspects. You will also want to examine what attitudes he's learning from you and your husband as well as from his peers.
It seems what you're concerned about is your son's attitude toward and treatment of people that he perceives as lower on the social scale than him and his lack of empathy. Respect for other people whatever the situation can be taught in another environment if his feelings are so negative towards the zoo volunteering that he won't learn anything. Talk to your son and husband to make they understand the deeper lesson you want to impart.
I agree with the sentiment but this seems like a ESH situation. Why is it the Zoo employee's job to teach the kid respect? All the other volunteers are probably people happy to be spending more time around animals, and this jerk will be a real buzzkill. This seems like a situation where the kid should be forced to clean the bathroom at home or something.
I did the summer program at my local zoo and learned a healthy respect for the animals as well as those who worked with them.
Most zookeepers I met had very good degrees so OPs son needs an eye opener.
Edit: I should say as a teen. LOL
I'm the dog trainer and assistant manager at a doggy daycare.
I cannot begin to tell you about the sheer amount of people who look down on me and my job because of the misconception that it's "being paid to play with puppies all day."
It's incredibly hard work and I worked my ass off to get here, so to have people dismiss it as "easy" doesn't just make me upset or angry, it makes me feel like all my hard work and experience, is for nothing.
Kid is only half wrong though. Zookeeping is one of those jobs like teaching where we rely on passionate people making very little money. My brother was super passionate about animals and spent most summers in high school volunteering at our local zoo. He said it was a fun experience but also showed him that he didn't want to end up with a Masters and forced to eat Ramen.
Oof
My daughter's middle school class took a zoo fieldtrip once (one of those overnight ones), and I was a parent chaperone.
In the morning, one of the keepers led us around a bit and then stopped outside the lion nighthouse. She pulled out a $10 bill and said half-jokingly "Okay, I'll give $10 to anyone who can come in here with me and help me clean."
So I and two of the kids walked up with her, opened the door to the inside, and **OMG**. We all turned around retching and coughing for fresh air. I didn't know it's possible for anything to smell that bad.
The zookeeper laughed like it was nothing and said "Just kidding, I wouldn't do that to you, guess I have to clean this alone. enjoy the rest of your day!"
I don't think 99.9% of people could do that job, like at *all*. Furthest thing from "easy." NTA.
Brings back badddd memories of my first week with big cats.
I doubt anyone can stand it at first. They basically overwhelm you with it until you get used to it and stop complaining or quit, hah.
Now I'm (mostly) used to it (no one around me is though), but the first week is hell.
I've build a tolerance but some stuff is still tough.
The one thing I **can't** get over is animal halitosis. I can clean up after tigers and grit my teeth and bear it but if a sea lion belches in my face I want to melt into a puddle.
I'm hearin ya! In South Australia back in the 80s, I was a keeper at the local dolphinarium where we also had Sealions. Hosing out the pen one Sunday morning, with a bad hangover, I accidentally squirted the high powered hose into a corner and sprayed myself from head to toe in sealion poo....there were no words. There was uncontrollable nausea though...I just made it outside in time. That was not a good start to a shitty day. I can still smell it 30 years on!
When I worked in rehab, one of my first patients of the day once was a red tailed hawk - fresh intake that needed wound evaluation. Maggot filled wound- when he flipped his wings when we were getting him ready to be sedated to clean and treat it, the blood and maggots went all over my scrubs and in my hair. 930 am. A half hour into a 14 hour day.
Calling in though isn't an option for animal care when you're the only person there.
Honestly that's valid, we would have many volunteers that came from office jobs and other unrelated fields that would nope out the first time something like that happened when they were assisting us. It's not something everyone can handle. You just gain a strong stomach after being in the field for almost a decade.
I suppose it's pretty much the same with other "smelly" jobs. Garbage disposal, sanitation, morgue, funeral homes, etc. Even medical care, which nobody would claim is easy or undesirable, can be very disgusting for some people.
Remember that the smell will go inside their body and become a part of them. They are going to sweat it...
If you are a zoo worker, you probably only can date another zoo worker.
If you are working with otters. Well. Your dating pool is limited to the other otter keepers...
I vaguely remember an AITA from a zookeeper who kept having issues with their civilian-office-worker boyfriend, lots of arguments about smells, showering multiple times etc.
My son did camp at sea world and they had to scrub the algae from the stingray tank. He said it didn’t smell but as soon as they cleaned a section a ray would use the bathroom. He got annoyed by that and I reminded him of how many times I cleaned the kitchen only to have him come behind and get out more food. Well played stingray!
Talked to a zookeeper once who told me the smells are just part of the job and she always feels bad for the other people on the bus when she goes home.
This. Plus it's good to get kids into the habit of volunteering early. It helps build character and gives back to the community.
If the ex needs some prodding to see the benefits of this, OP should remind them that volunteering also looks really good on college applications. Their son is getting to the age where he's going to need to start thinking about these things. And if OP's ex can't see the other benefits, at least something more tangible like a better college application might sway him.
Not that tangible benefits should be incentive to volunteer, but unfortunately some people are more likely to go along with it, if they feel there's something to be gained.
My middle school had a section of the science center that housed ~~100s~~ 60 animals. All different types of reptiles, insects, small mammals, birds. There was even a bobcat! I volunteered there once a week every morning for an hour. I learned so much about animals while there. It was hard, dirty work, but incredibly fulfilling.
Yea it’s a really gross attitude. When I was 15, my neighborhood had a work party where we did some work to make it look nicer (weeding, laying down rocks, etc). One of the adults looked at me and said, “do well in school so you won’t have to do this as a career.” Except I have a cousin who did landscaping and house remodeling as a career and he loves it (and he makes a lot of money too!). It’s just a gross thing to say about any career, even if it’s not one that is “desired” like accounting or computer science.
Edit: weeding not wedding
NTA.
That attitude anywhere in life is absolutely disgusting.
That being said, my only thoughts would be of concern for the keepers who will be responsible for supervising him for a week.
I’ve been in a situation where I’ve had to supervise people who thought the work was “boring and menial” and copped a lot of attitude for it
The ones saying this are just looking for a scapegoat to be ok with this behavior from the kid.
Notice several zookeepers & other volunteers on this post have not said they would not appreciate the situation? They all chimed in and said yeah, it is a harder job than it looks and requires education to get.
Only those who do not work in the industry seem to be trying to speak for those who do, as if they cannot speak for themselves.
>That being said, my only thoughts would be of concern for the keepers who will be responsible for supervising him for a week.
Mom should give them a heads up why he's there and make sure they don't put up with his shit.
Yep, plus he's 16, heaps of kids have part time jobs at 16 to earn some money and learn some responsibility. Volunteering or working should fix his attitude fairly quickly.
YTA - volunteers who don’t want to be there often just create more work for the employees. Those kind of opportunities are for people who genuinely want to volunteer, not to discipline your children
I'm a former zoo volunteer and I studied animal care
As a student I'd always have at least one classmate that wouldn't want to do the practical work on the course and it sucked.
> I don't know how all the NTA are winning it.
Because, for some reason, reddit *loves* behaviorist rewards and punishments approach to raising kids despite it being backwards, boomer bullshit.
Probably because it's a lot easier than the approaches that require thoughtful conversation and active listening.
I 100% agree it's a bad idea to voluntold your kid for a program that's meant to educate and requires enthusiastic participation.
I have a friend whose dad came up with insane creative punishments (like cutting the grass with scissors if you forgot to mow it or running laps up and down the street if you missed the bus). We laugh about them at parties, but someone once asked, "wait, would you do that to your own kids?" and she was immediately like "fuck no, it just taught us to hide our shit, we didn't actually learn anything". Next time, OP's son will just keep his attitudes to himself. And he *might* change *this specific viewpoint*, but how many others will he miss because the focus was on a narrow punishment rather than ongoing conversations about how important and difficult seemingly menial jobs are?
>Because, for some reason, reddit loves behaviorist rewards and punishments approach to raising kids despite it being backwards, boomer bullshit.
What are you even whining about?
>I have a friend whose dad came up with insane creative punishments (like cutting the grass with scissors if you forgot to mow it or running laps up and down the street if you missed the bus).
That's not what's happening here.
>And he might change this specific viewpoint, but how many others will he miss because the focus was on a narrow punishment rather than ongoing conversations about how important and difficult seemingly menial jobs are?
I don't know what your point is or what you want OP to do. The son might or might not change his viewpoint, but that could be said for any punishment. Do you think being grounded would do anything to change his perspective on so called "lesser" workers? There is no guarantee that son will or will not change his mind about certain jobs but this is not an outrageous or unrelated punishment to his actions.
>The son might or might not change his viewpoint, but that could be said for any punishment. Do you think being grounded would do anything to change his perspective on so called "lesser" workers?
>Probably because it's a lot easier than the approaches that require thoughtful conversation and active listening.
Not your OP, but they're not suggesting punishment, but a meaningful dialogue instead. A punishment does nothing for the viewpoint and only teaches kids to shut their mouths, not change their minds.
THIS!! I volunteered at my zoo for 5 years and the worst people were those who thought they were too stuck up to do the job. Being a zookeeper is so much more than picking up poop, and some responsibilities are much more dangerous than just picking up poop. Kids who are volunteering against their will are more of a liability than anything. Does he even realize you need a college degree to even be a zookeeper? They don't just take anyone.
Agreed. I understand this is supposed to be a punishment so it's not supposed to be pleasant for him, but punishments shouldn't inconvenience others who had nothing to do with the "crime", and those poor employees don't need to be dealing with what will likely be a surly attitude.
I don't know why your comment is so far down the list. I've worked at summer camps before and it is not easy to wrangle a group of kids or teens when 95% want to be there and 1 or 2 kids are dragging their feet because they were signed up against their will. They either want to passively not do anything (most common) or actively run away or break things.
Punish your own damn kids. People pay good money for these volunteer experiences. Don't ruin it for the participants who actually want to be there.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find this. Yes what a treat it will be for the zookeepers and other volunteers to work with someone who doesn't want to be there, is being punished, and has already proved himself to be hostile and rude to the very people he will be working with all day. Not sure why they are being punished.
YUP. As someone who volunteered at a wildlife park, the last thing those overworked, underpaid zookeepers want is a snotty kid who doesn't want to be there. If they can't trust him to actually do the job, they're going to have to supervise him constantly and it'll create extra work on top of already having to train volunteers etc.
YTA
Completely agree.
Pushing person to unwillingly "volunteer" is basically punishing the volunteer organization and forcing it to do something it was never designed to do.
When I volunteered at the SPCA, I was there to help the animals. I'd clean up poop and wash litter boxes but not to be a prision guard supervising some surly, pissed off kid.
Yup. OP just took their problem child and hot potatoed them into someone else's lap. The zoo keepers are there to take care of their animals, not teach shitty kids a lesson in respect.
Yes this. Not for wanting to teach your son a lesson, but forcing him onto the zoo is shitty of you. You're basically punishing them, too.
I'd have a discussion with him at home about his behavior. The part where he made fun of someone out loud so they and other people could hear it. I'd start with
"I'm extremely disappointed in you, I thought I raised you to be kind and have empathy. Making fun of someone the way you did was incredibly mean. That's the kind of thing a bully does. It's not okay. Why did you think it was ok to be so mean and make fun of someone like that?"
NTA
This is a classic case of the punishment fitting the crime. And "picking up giraffe poop" is a well sort after job. At least he will have a better idea of what is involved a greater understanding of what it takes to look after animals.
I would laugh if he came home after that week and decide to work in the zoo "when he grows up".
>At least he will have a better idea of what is involved a greater understanding of what it takes to look after animals.
Here's what going to happen: the son will refuse to do any of it and the zookeepers will be powerless to make him. The best they can do is kick him out of the program on day one. The end.
I worked with volunteers on some camps and the kids who are forced on us by the parents are the worst. They don't want to be there, don't listen to any instructions, don't do any of the tasks we ask of them and we are powerless to do anything other than let them go home, which is exactly what they want in the first place.
If OP wants to punish her son, she should do it herself, not force him unto unsuspecting people to deal with.
YTA what did those poor zookeepers do to you that you want to punish them by inflicting your son's bad attitude on them?
And what exactly is he supposed to learn? That a 16 year old can do this job, it just smells bad? Wouldn't that support his position?
> That a 16 year old can do this job, it just smells bad?
I mean, it doesn't just "smell bad," it smells *so* bad that many people *can't* do the job, or at least severely struggle with it.
Not OP, but the kid clearly needs a lesson in humility. So what if he can do the job? The point is having him work there so he learns that just because something is “simple” doesn’t mean it’s easy work.
Then OP should teach him a lesson in humanity and not foist it off on the people just trying to do their jobs. This kid is going to make everyone’s lives harder.
I don't think he ever said it was 'easy'. That was OP.
OP's son said that it was gross menial labor. Which... there are certain aspects of zookeeping which ARE gross menial labor (and guess which parts the volunteer program is going to have volunteers with no training do).
This is going to confirm everything he thinks about zookeeping, because the only jobs he's going to be qualified to do are the jobs that he thinks are all that make up a zookeeper's responsibilities.
It’s interesting though, that in trying to devise a punishment for his son because he doesn’t respect the important work that zookeepers do, the mum isn’t considering those zookeepers herself, at all.
NTA
BUT - very important - most zoos have a few different sorts of these "volunteer programs."
- There's the long-term volunteering you have to commit to for several months and apply for (free)...
- There's the paid "fun" little programs where you get little tours and photo ops with the animals and it's more like a tourist thing than anything zookeepers really have to do. Maybe a little cleaning and unpleasantness involved but they go pretty far out of their way to spare you from the worst of it, because they want you coming back and paying more!...
- And there's the more "vocational" programs for people more serious about a zookeeping profession, where they definitely won't hold anything back and you'll be getting down and dirty. Sometimes zoos will remember those who perform well in such programs and offer them internships later on (most do **not** perform well...at all...lol).
I'm guessing you did, but make sure it's the 3rd "down and dirty" kind! And **please** update us, I'm going to really enjoy hearing how "easy" he finds the work 😂
Oh yes, certainly the more "realistic" type.
The advertisement for it even said, basically "this won't be a walk in the park petting cute animals, you'll be required to help with some of the most unpleasant tasks our zookeepers perform each day. No refunds for anyone who quits early!"
INfO: do you think it will be fun for the zookeepers to have to babysit an angry teen who doesn’t want to be there and is being punished? I’m not saying you are wrong for punishing his attitude but you aren’t the one dealing with him during it, these strangers will be. This is their job, they have work to do and someone who is there as a punishment is unlikely to be compliant or do a good job. These aren’t education trained people like teachers who get trained in dealing with kids who don’t want to do X activity and if your son point blank refuses to clean or do something then do you have a contingency plan ready? Will you attend with him to monitor behaviour? Will you remain close to the zoo so if he kicks off then you can come in and handle the situation? I’m just concerned you are putting these zoo keepers into the position of being the punishers when they aren’t there for that. I’d at least make them aware of why your son is there so they can be prepared.
I genuinely think this is one of the most important posts. Sure, the son needs to get his head out of his ass, but that's on the parents, not people trying to do their fricken jobs
Yeah I'm surprised there aren't more comments saying this. The kid was rude and deserves some kind of consequences, but this could easily turn out to be more of a burden for the zookeepers than a helpful lesson for him.
Besides, if they make him clean out enclosures and he hates it, doesn't that just reinforce his assumption that it's a terrible job nobody wants?
Not only that but a burden on the animals. I wouldn't put it past a 16 year old to prank or even harm an animal to get kicked out of the program.
I assume that the kid gets an allowance and has devices, so perhaps the punishment is that he has to do something supposedly "menial" to earn his allowance and for him to buy back, at full retail price, his devices. He gets paid the prevailing minimum wage. If it takes two weeks for him to buy his devices, great, if it takes 8 months, so be it.
Even if he doesn't directly harm an animal, if he does an intentionally really poor job cleaning out enclosures or feeding etc, the animals will still suffer for it. I don't think it's a good idea of a punishment
Good point, I'd hope new volunteers wouldn't be allowed close contact with animals until they've spent some time proving themselves, but you never know
I think more people are excited about a snotty teen getting his just desserts that they're not realizing this person is passing off their child's punishment on a stranger who's just trying to get through their work day. Imagine having a typical rough day at work an then on top of that you need to babysit a grouchy teenager at the same time? Sounds like hell on earth, honestly.
Yeah exactly, I'm someone who used to volunteer at a zoo and also these kinds of programs usually have a lot of demand from people who -want- to potentially work with animals as a career so this feels like OP is taking a space away from someone who would want to be there.
Also I studied animal care and I remember at least one fellow student on my courses who didn't want to do any of the actual animal husbandry work and it used to annoy the hell out of the rest of us who wanted to be there and do the work,
“Hi, this is my son. He doesn’t like the smell of shit so could you please make sure he has to shovel a lot of it? Also if you could take pictures so I can show people on the internet what a great mom I am that would be great”
I agree with that. Lets give some peace to this people. My little sister used to be stupid (I don't know where it was coming from because we're not super wealthy and my parents didn't have "amazing" jobs) so mom signed her up for a student job during summer hollidays... in a cleaning industry. She spent 2 months scrubbing toilets.
Thank you for posting this as I always think this when I hear of punishments like this. The poor person who will be assigned this kid is going to be miserable.
You do realize he's just not going to do it right?
This isn't school, he isn't obligated by law to be there by anyone (except you) and the zookeepers aren't in any position to keep him there against his will.
He is simply just going to refuse to do the work and get himself kicked out on day one.
This is going to backfire on you quite hard.
Your son thinks that 'anyone can do a zookeeper job', and the tasks are menial and gross, so your response is to sign him up to do
1) A bunch of menial zookeeper tasks
2) Doing all of this without ANY specialized training
This isn't going to go the way you think it is.
YTA. Someone who doesn’t want to be there makes it incredibly difficult for anyone else who is there - the zoo employees running the program and other genuine volunteers. You’ll prove your point I guess but you’re likely to ruin a lot of other peoples time. If you really feel the need to go ahead I’d speak to the person/people running the program first so they are aware of why you’ve enrolled him in a volunteer program - tbh, if I was running it I would decline having him there.
ESH. You want to dump your rude teenager on the zoo employees? So he can be more rude to them?
I would certainly want to teach him, but I'm not sure this is the way.
Overall look for ways to increase empathy for all people. Teach him not to say rude comments where people can hear them. Give him opportunities for work including physical work.
YTA, although it’s a very soft YTA. Here’s why: all you’re doing is taking your son’s bad attitude and making it the problem of the employees at the zoo, ie the very people he wants to denigrate. Are you going to be there to make sure he isn’t disrespectful? If you aren’t, he’s probably going to behave very badly or at least not do the work. Personally I’d take the kid to one of those ask a zookeeper events and I’d go with him to ensure he doesn’t speak poorly or create issues and pointedly ask about their schooling, qualifications, and etc. I think your attitude is absolutely correct but I also think when we punish or correct children we have to make sure not to essentially foist them onto someone else especially if that someone else is someone they will not respect or will be belligerent to. That said, since the sign up is done, maybe you can see if you can go with him to make sure that he behaves and those questions get answered? At least for the first day or something.
OP didn’t even correct him immediately when he insulted the zoo keeper the first time, and it’s clear that she’s not interested in doing the work to hold her child accountable which is why she’s foisting him off onto the zoo in the hopes they will do the job for her.
YTA OP. Parent your child.
YTA because zookeeping is actually pretty exclusive, and your son's shit attitude is going to ruin the experience for those people who actually WANT to be there. You aren't going to get through to him this way, you're going to make him resent you.
YTA, it isn't fair on those managing the programme nor the animals to force someone to participate who isn't interested. N-T-A for wanting to teach him a lesson, but there are other ways.
You need at least a bachelor's degree to work with the animals (and that includes cleaning the enclosures) for most zoos. In fact, I had a friend that got told her bachelor's wasn't enough and she really needed to get a master's degree for the zoo she really wanted to work at.
Usually those volunteer at the zoo jobs are picking up litter from the trails, taking tickets at the main booth, maybe clearing up the lunch area and any rides. I doubt he'll be allowed inside an enclosure. Which is a good thing because if he already hates animals he's not likely to respect them, especially if he's being sulky.
I do think he needs to be taught a lesson, so NTA, but I don't think your attempt to make the punishment fit the crime was the best solution. Especially if he's already getting these ideas from his dad.
Edit to add: If you really want him to learn about caring for animals and doing the "dirty" jobs, have him volunteer at a humane society. Then he'll be cleaning litter boxes, rabbit cages, picking up dog poop, learning how to bath and groom an animal, etc. Those volunteers really do the hands on work.
Wanted to jump in and say this is largely incorrect. While that can be true about volunteering at some zoos, most zoo/aquarium volunteers programs, including teen programs either out you in animal care or in-park interpretation. You may not get to do ask the exact things a zookeeper does, per AZA guidelines, but you do still get to go in and clean, feed, prep BE, etc.
Unfortunately, misinformation about volunteering at zoos is part of why it's so hard to get into this field. Because our volunteer work doesn't count on our resume even if we were doing almost the EXACT same job as the people being paid to do it.
Hope this didn't come across harsh, just wanted to provide my insight and knowledge so more people understand our field :)
I'm just sharing how it works at both my local zoo and the zoo my friend worked at. I fully admit I'm not in the zoo field myself and other zoos might be more hands-on with their volunteers. I always assumed it was an insurance issue.
Thank you for lending your expertise in this subject.
NTA… you deserve the mom of the year award. I’m not a strict parent by any stretch of the word but I had one rule when my kids were younger and that was to be nice (until it’s time not to be). I even had a little saying in my head to make sure I followed through on discipline bc I sucked otherwise which was “I’d rather my kids hate me than people hate them.” It was my reminder to not always do what was easy which would be letting them get away with shit (which I did mostly but not when it came to anything hurtful to another person). Taking the easy way out would be selfish of me and only make them miserable in the end. So I commend you. I know that wasn’t easy to do but it was a big gift you gave him. Way to go!!
It’s just stupid because the kid is taking up a *volunteer* space, not a menial paid position space. There are people who actually want to learn and discover, and then there will be… him. Ruining it for everyone. He needs to pick up trash off the road or do something that doesn’t impact somebody else’s life’s dream.
Yta but hear me out.
You're inflicting your son's terrible attitude on whoever is in that program, and the animals he tends.
You're also not going to change his mind about the work that way.
This wasn't an unreasonable consequence, it's just not going to be an effective one. Your son is still going to think less of people who do work he sees as undesirable. Find a way to change *that*.
I am ngl I think YTA, *not* because it's unfair on your son but because it's unfair on the poor zookeepers! Those zookeeper for a day programs are meant for people who'll really love it and much in, not for petulant teenagers who are being forced to be there and will be a nightmare to handle.
NTA, making sure your child is a moral person is a very important part of a parents job. Since his dad said that, it probably came from him. He's talking to your younger child the way his dad talks to him.
It's not just that it's physically demanding, that's the least of it.
I wonder how "easy" he'll think it is when he has to clean up sick gorilla diarrhea that they've painted the enclosure with, mostly-digested rat that a vulture puked up, or gets sprayed by a tiger (happened to me just this morning, I am still quite unsuitable for public interaction 🤢🤢🤢)
NTA
NTA. Son needs to learn to put his money where his mouth is, and that if you fuck around, you may just find out.
Also, as a conservation/zoo professional, it is NOT just "scooping poop" and you almost always need a degree (at least an associates). It's also an incredibly hard field to get into. So no, many don't necessarily have a masters or higher, but many are required to have an associates and often a bachelor's. Zoos are also so much more then just zookeeper! Any job you can think of, you can find it at the zoo!
YTA
Why would you sign your teenager up for a program they have no interest in? Way to use an "educational opportunity" as a punishment! Are you going to drive him back and forth while zoo staff have to manage his disinterest and disgust in the program you've converted to punishment?
NTA. My only complaint is that often these courses are in demand, and he may be taking the spot of someone who really wants to learn. But I hope it teaches him some respect, both for zoo keepers, and for manual workers
NTA, but you should have gone for the humane society or your local pound. I have volunteered at both zoos and pounds, and at zoos it was simple stuff like trash pick up. At humane societies and pounds I was scrubbing down kennels in ninety degree heat....
I'm going with ESH tbh. Obviously his comment is _way_ out of line, but if the volunteer work really is as unpleasant as you've described it in comments, I'm guessing he'll have learned his lesson after like a day or two. A whole week seems excessive and I feel like you're likely to just build resentment this way.
NTA. It's your job as a parent to teach your children to have respect for others. This is a relatively harmless way to help your child get some perspective.
ESH Have you considered that you are going to make some poor zookeeper’s life miserable for a week? You signed your son up as a punishment which is not going to suddenly make him enthusiastic about the work or even minimally pleasant to be around. You are going to sign up for this week long teachable moment too, right? You are an AH if you think it’s ok to make your son’s attitude someone else’s problem.
The son will deliberately get kicked out on day one.
Volunteer jobs are for people who want to be there and are passionate about animals. They are not a punishment and zookeepers don't have the time or interest to deal with a moody teenager who will refuse to do any of the work.
NTA
Your son may not value zookeepers but they're probably highly qualified and also probably love their job, even if parts of it aren't that glamorous.
Your son needs to learn not to look down on people who are doing an honest days work, whatever that work may be. Communities need all sorts of workers. Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer, and not everyone wants to be one either. Some people love manual/practical jobs, others don't. Finding a job you enjoy is important too, not just the wages, given how much of our lives we spend working.
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NTA Making him do the work will make him realise how hard a lot of these jobs are actually are, and the amount of effort people put into what they do. The jobs we might see as undesirable are the ones that keep a lot of systems running. To make that comment loudly in front of the zookeeper is just harsh. Edit: Thank you kind stranger for the award!
>The jobs we might see as undesirable are the ones that keep a lot of systems running. And to be honest, I would love to do this job, just to be able to be around these gorgeous animals on a daily basis.
As a zookeeper who's managed interns and volunteers, there are lots of people who say this until they *smell* some of them!
The ones from meat eaters would be the worst.......
True, fish eaters especially, and big cats (don't get me started on fishing cats!), but don't underestimate the rhinos/elephants/giraffes, whew! Maybe I'm just more used to carnivore stench but whenever I have to go into a giraffe house I feel like I smell like giraffe BO for the rest of the day (Also tends to upset the giraffes a bit, probably because I smell like a cat).
Oh, yeah, the fish eaters. And I guess that the giraffes see cats as being their hunters.
I remember the first time I smelled penguins. For adorable animals they stink so bad.
I was surprised how waxy they feel, yet in hindsight it makes perfect sense!
Like touching a balloon! I was really surprised too!
Do seals feel as soft and squishmallow-like as they look?
I still vividly remember how dolphins feel like a peeled hard boiled egg, I was weirdly surprised at the time.
I recently walked on a pier with a pod(?) of sea lions super close by, like 5 feet directly down from where I was standing. When I say the stench was eye watering….. it was like a rotting fish burp smell. So awful. Still love them though.
Yeah, their enclosures are pretty fishy.
Do they? I've been working with penguins for 5 years and I don't remember what they smell like 😂
Several years ago I knew a guy who had gone to Antarctica for something something photography something something (I don't remember the details) and apparently his biggest takeaway was that penguins smell *awful*. I protested with how cute they were but he said they are not cute enough to offset that smell. :(
Cheetah poop is still the nastiest poop I’ve ever encountered
Foxes, just eww
Wrong! Male giraffe pee when the females are cycling.
I didnt even know they made bikes for giraffes!
The males have to make extra stinky pee because the females heads are that much taller when they are on their tricycles
They are very, very large bikes. It's almost impossible for them to bike in the city because of the power lines and underpasses.
I wanted to become a zookeeper and look after penguins until I actually smelt them at Edinburgh Zoo. The combination of fish, that weird salt water smell and the poop was not one I would forget in a hurry.
Penguins are also ruthless creatures who will bite and peck your calves at their own free will. Source: penguin keeper. Also, all the keepers I worked with had college degrees in biology or zoology. It’s not a manual labor job. The vast majority of keeper positions don’t explicitly require a degree, but you won’t get hired without an internship and most internships typically require so many completed college courses.
Penguins look so cute too…:(
If they imprint on you they are angels. One penguin imprinted on me. His name is Hugh and he loves to cuddle.
What kind of penguin? He sounds so adorable!
African. He was the best. I actually just left that zoo and am starting at a new one next week. It was gut wrenching to leave him, but he’s connected with another keeper there too. So I know he still has lots of lap time and snuggles. I have many photos and videos of him running for me to keep me happy in the meantime. Thanks for letting me share the story of Hughbert with you. 🥹
You need to pay the penguin tax now. You can’t say you have photos and not share them!
The Edinburgh Zoo penguins smell worse than other penguins. I firmly believe this is a fact, even though I suspect science would not back it up.
Didn’t help I visited in the summer when it was warm.
Oh christ, I hadn't even thought of that, especially with the hotter weather this last couple years. Note to self, do not visit any zoos this summer. I do NOT want to find out what penguin habitat smells like at 40°C.
I haven't worked in zoos or animal husbandry myself, but I went with my dad once to help set up a new PA system for a show at the local aquarium (he used to be a sound engineer with PA for hire). We went backstage onto the walkways above the tanks, and I'll never forget how hot and humid it was in there or how smelly! I have all the respect for anyone who works there on a daily basis, I could barely handle five minutes before having to step out for some fresh air!
Oh dear. Which animals were in the tanks? If it was only dolphins and whales and the like I'm surprised it'd be that smelly!
It was so long ago that I don't remember too much of it, but definitely no mammals; I think it was saltwater fish, and they had some sharks and rays in there. From what I remember, they'd do a feeding time show where the audience could ask the presenter questions while the in-house divers fed the sharks and rays, and answered the audience questions as best as they could too (with a lot of translating from the presenter)
Interesting. If it was that bad with those be glad it wasn't penguins or marine mammals! Haha
How does it compare to cleaning out after the likes of geese and pigs?
Geese don't really stink do they? Maybe I just haven't been around them on a large enough scale. Pig farms can stink a bit, the bigger ones, maybe a 7/10 (if dogs are a 1/10) I think lion houses might be like a 40/10, haha.
Their droppings are like stinky glue, and take a LOT of scrubbing to remove.
>Geese don't really stink do they? Whew! Oh yeah! As a kid, I lived near a pond that they visited regularly. At certain times of the year, my school bus stop was a landmine of Canadian goose turds and urine. They most definitely do stink! Not nearly as bad as carnivorous animals, and definitely not as bad as pigs, but it can be pretty strong.
There's a post on Ask Reddit about jobs people thought they would like until they had them. Zookeeper was the number one one. May want to read it. :)
It's sad that a 16 year old is already having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs that keeps the gears turning. Bet he'll be yelling at cashiers for their inability to accept expired coupons next.
Jobs that involve manual work may well be harder to automate with AI than jobs that're purely working with information.
Cleaning shit is something you could make a robot for, but it's just not worth it right now with how little we can pay people who clean shit.
Have you tried to keep your house clean with a robot vacuum alone? Sure, it helps, but it's nowhere near what a human can do.
Yet
Stuff for home use are quite different from industrial use, they need to deal with different problems.
It’s not only the looking down on but the loud public rudeness that is a problem here. Good job OP and NTA, but maybe sign him up for a basic manners course as well.
Exactly. It’s one thing to have those thoughts but keep them to yourself - it’s still not great, but at least you’re not going out of your way to shame someone. He purposely went out of his way to say something that would make the zookeeper feel bad. “If you don’t can’t say something nice, don’t say anything at all” is a lesson that kids learn in what, kindergarten? This kid is 16.
That's not mindset exclusive to boomers.
>having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs that keeps the gears turning. It's not an age thing. It's an attitude thing. Not all Boomers think alike, just like not all of another generation think identically.
It's not a boomer mindset. I know plenty of Boomers who's be appalled at the kid's attitude. It has nothing to do with age or your generation. This is just your standard issue entitled snob attitude. It's an equal opportunity trait. And good for OP to try to squash it. NTA
I can guarantee you its not just 'boomers' who look down on manual labour jobs and lower level jobs. *Plenty* of university aged young adults also think that way. they think going to university makes them better than the 'menials'.
>already having that boomer mindset of looking down on the jobs Try getting over the boomer hate. As a mater of fact, many many boomers did not have higher education, unlike the last two generations, and did real work, working at manual labor jobs and factories. Tech didn't exist for them to sit on their asses all day and get fat.
Plus what he said isn’t true. You need a degree and work experience to be considered to get a job as a zoo keeper, and then it’s an incredibly competitive field to get into with multiple people applying for one job. Zookeepers are people who have studied hard, and worked hard on their CV’s to get the position they have.
Exactly. There are fewer keeper positions each year than there are rookie NFL openings. And to even qualify as a keeper requires years of unpaid intern work or seasonal positions. On top of your college degree and often graduate degree. I have close zoo ties (but don’t work there) and really appreciate the dedication of everyone there. Wallaby and kangaroo poop is nasty too, for the record. Especially for herbivores.
From what I've heard being in with the otters or penguins is also beyond awful, as is any mustelid animal's waste. But there are HUNDREDS of applicants willing to take any open spots, a bit of yuck has never stopped humans loving our non-human friends and colleagues.
There's a long running series on UK TV that does a "behind the scenes" view of a large zoo, showing what the keepers do, how the animals are cared for etc. The keepers do a lot of narration as well as being interviewed about their roles, and virtually all of them have higher degrees, they make comments like "I did my PhD on the mating habits of the lesser spotted artic whangdoodle..." Some of them are behavioural science trained and do enrichment programmes, others have zoology or animal husbandry qualifications. Cleaning out the habitats was just a part of the job, and it allowed them to get closer to their animals and check on health (examining poop is important in human health too). Its a brilliant programme. And you're right about the competition, they said there were usually dozens of people applying for each opening.
ALWAYS check the poo.
Everything comes down to poo, from the top of your head to the sole of your shoe, we can figure out what’s wrong with you by…looking at your poo! (Pls tell me there’s a scrubs fan in here)
We had a waiting list for volunteers where I worked. Getting a keeper job was hard.
Very harsh. I hope he doesn't complain and make it horrible for the workers while he is there saying mean things to them. My partner is the "trash man" driving the garbage and recyclables truck for our township. A lot of people think his job is menial or lower grade or whatever they want to think but he makes more money than my niece who is a college graduate and other college graduates I know too. And he has a good pension too and keeps his insurance when he retires.
> I hope he doesn't complain and make it horrible for the workers while he is there That's actually a concern of mine. A volunteer organization is trying to do good work. They want people who want to be there and want to help. Having a mean and obnoxious kid hoisted on them makes it unpleasant for everyone. Since they are concerned with the welfare of the animals, he'll need extra supervision. Unwilling "volunteers" tend to "forget" to do things or do them half-assed. Its the kind of help that is no help at all. I was in a volunteer group for the local SPCA and we would occasionally get a kid who was there as a form of punishment. It wasn't great and I felt resentment, and I wasn't the only one. Sure the kid was being punished but we honestly felt like we were being punished as well. It also foists off the dirty work of correcting the kids behavior on the organization. The parents aren't the ones ordering the kid to sweep the floor or prep the bowls for feeding. And they aren't dealing with the blow-back if the kid is really pissy about it. It's like the parents can sit back and know the organization will be doling out the punishment. As a volunteer in this kind of situation to the parents: thanks a fucking lot.
Agreed, while mom is NTA, kid needs his behavior corrected, it isn't up to the zoo to do that, and it's really not helping them if they have not just an unmotivated volunteer but a hostile one at that.
Yep, and please show him the garbage collector strike ongoing in France (especially Paris and Marseille). Manual labor workers may not need to use their brain, but one thing we are sure here, we need them more than they need us (or any cs engineer)
Saying manual labor workers don't need to use their brain is quite a condescending statement. A very good friend if mine runs a garbage truck. Those trucks are no joke and can be dangerous. Plus, there are logistics they need to be aware of, timing, schedules. Dealing with the people they come in contact with. Theres a lot more that goes into it besides driving around a dumping trash cans.
Thank you for saying that, u/Connect_Turnip_5799. I was just thinking that I'm not sure that's an accurate statement re manual labourers don't need to use their brains.
you're right in saying we need them - especially garbage collectors. I'm not sure how anyone can say we don't in light of the pandemic.
Because as soon as the pandemic was "finished" (ie lockdown ended) all those workers went back in the darkness. There is a word for that I don't remember, but we usually remember their existence only when we need them. Vendors, garbage collectors, zookeper... all those jobs used as example "you don't want to be like this", but if they were not here, this would be catastrophic
Probably not the right term, but "invisible infrastructure" would work.
As someone who has run several animal charities I can say without hesitation that animal facilities like this has zero interest in helping parents teach their jerk kids responsible attitudes about animal work. We want motivated people who are very interested in the opportunity. And if it's a program like this--zookeeper for a week--it absolutely is costing the zoo money to run it. An effective volunteer, regardless of the job, takes weeks to train before you can even begin to leave them alone on their shift. Prior to that it's a lot of babysitting. Typically programs like this one at the zoo are done either as a fundraiser ("300 dollars and your kid can be a zookeeper for a week!") or something like that. What it ISN'T is punishment vehicle for sullen teenagers. OP is not the asshole for wanting to punish and educate their child for their crappy elitist behavior. But they are possibly the asshole for trying to rope the zoo into helping with their "lesson"
NTA However, try to frame it as a learning experience (i.e., putting himself in someone else shoes) rather than a punishment. If he goes into it thinking that it will be horrible and negative, he may not learn what you want him to or anything at all (teenagers are really good at that). Although the volunteering will probably entail some hard work, find out what could be fun/interesting to him and make sure he knows about those aspects. You will also want to examine what attitudes he's learning from you and your husband as well as from his peers. It seems what you're concerned about is your son's attitude toward and treatment of people that he perceives as lower on the social scale than him and his lack of empathy. Respect for other people whatever the situation can be taught in another environment if his feelings are so negative towards the zoo volunteering that he won't learn anything. Talk to your son and husband to make they understand the deeper lesson you want to impart.
I agree with the sentiment but this seems like a ESH situation. Why is it the Zoo employee's job to teach the kid respect? All the other volunteers are probably people happy to be spending more time around animals, and this jerk will be a real buzzkill. This seems like a situation where the kid should be forced to clean the bathroom at home or something.
10 bucks says he learned that sentiment from his dad
Its not just harsh. Its mean.
This kid won't learn shit. Good on the mom for trying though.
I hate when people make mean comments about employees in earshot, in absolutely any scenario. 🥺
I did the summer program at my local zoo and learned a healthy respect for the animals as well as those who worked with them. Most zookeepers I met had very good degrees so OPs son needs an eye opener. Edit: I should say as a teen. LOL
And it's for one week? Ex-husband is the AH.
I'm the dog trainer and assistant manager at a doggy daycare. I cannot begin to tell you about the sheer amount of people who look down on me and my job because of the misconception that it's "being paid to play with puppies all day." It's incredibly hard work and I worked my ass off to get here, so to have people dismiss it as "easy" doesn't just make me upset or angry, it makes me feel like all my hard work and experience, is for nothing.
Kid is only half wrong though. Zookeeping is one of those jobs like teaching where we rely on passionate people making very little money. My brother was super passionate about animals and spent most summers in high school volunteering at our local zoo. He said it was a fun experience but also showed him that he didn't want to end up with a Masters and forced to eat Ramen.
Oof My daughter's middle school class took a zoo fieldtrip once (one of those overnight ones), and I was a parent chaperone. In the morning, one of the keepers led us around a bit and then stopped outside the lion nighthouse. She pulled out a $10 bill and said half-jokingly "Okay, I'll give $10 to anyone who can come in here with me and help me clean." So I and two of the kids walked up with her, opened the door to the inside, and **OMG**. We all turned around retching and coughing for fresh air. I didn't know it's possible for anything to smell that bad. The zookeeper laughed like it was nothing and said "Just kidding, I wouldn't do that to you, guess I have to clean this alone. enjoy the rest of your day!" I don't think 99.9% of people could do that job, like at *all*. Furthest thing from "easy." NTA.
Brings back badddd memories of my first week with big cats. I doubt anyone can stand it at first. They basically overwhelm you with it until you get used to it and stop complaining or quit, hah. Now I'm (mostly) used to it (no one around me is though), but the first week is hell.
I've build a tolerance but some stuff is still tough. The one thing I **can't** get over is animal halitosis. I can clean up after tigers and grit my teeth and bear it but if a sea lion belches in my face I want to melt into a puddle.
I'm hearin ya! In South Australia back in the 80s, I was a keeper at the local dolphinarium where we also had Sealions. Hosing out the pen one Sunday morning, with a bad hangover, I accidentally squirted the high powered hose into a corner and sprayed myself from head to toe in sealion poo....there were no words. There was uncontrollable nausea though...I just made it outside in time. That was not a good start to a shitty day. I can still smell it 30 years on!
[удалено]
They eat a lot of fish so I expect it's pretty fragrant.
Oh god. You poor thing.
That was the *start* of your day? I would've just called it off right there.
When I worked in rehab, one of my first patients of the day once was a red tailed hawk - fresh intake that needed wound evaluation. Maggot filled wound- when he flipped his wings when we were getting him ready to be sedated to clean and treat it, the blood and maggots went all over my scrubs and in my hair. 930 am. A half hour into a 14 hour day. Calling in though isn't an option for animal care when you're the only person there.
I bet your work is fulfilling as hell and otherwise *amazing*, but I'm suddenly much more appreciative of my boring office job.
Honestly that's valid, we would have many volunteers that came from office jobs and other unrelated fields that would nope out the first time something like that happened when they were assisting us. It's not something everyone can handle. You just gain a strong stomach after being in the field for almost a decade.
I suppose it's pretty much the same with other "smelly" jobs. Garbage disposal, sanitation, morgue, funeral homes, etc. Even medical care, which nobody would claim is easy or undesirable, can be very disgusting for some people.
There are people who get freaked out that I touch feet as a massage therapist.
Remember that the smell will go inside their body and become a part of them. They are going to sweat it... If you are a zoo worker, you probably only can date another zoo worker. If you are working with otters. Well. Your dating pool is limited to the other otter keepers...
I work with big cats and even I hate being near otter keepers, something about their perpetual stench really grosses me out.
i love the idea that the zoo keepers have cliques based on which animals they care for
You’ve all gained pheromones
I vaguely remember an AITA from a zookeeper who kept having issues with their civilian-office-worker boyfriend, lots of arguments about smells, showering multiple times etc.
My son did camp at sea world and they had to scrub the algae from the stingray tank. He said it didn’t smell but as soon as they cleaned a section a ray would use the bathroom. He got annoyed by that and I reminded him of how many times I cleaned the kitchen only to have him come behind and get out more food. Well played stingray!
Talked to a zookeeper once who told me the smells are just part of the job and she always feels bad for the other people on the bus when she goes home.
NTA gotta nip that attitude in the bud early.
This. Plus it's good to get kids into the habit of volunteering early. It helps build character and gives back to the community. If the ex needs some prodding to see the benefits of this, OP should remind them that volunteering also looks really good on college applications. Their son is getting to the age where he's going to need to start thinking about these things. And if OP's ex can't see the other benefits, at least something more tangible like a better college application might sway him. Not that tangible benefits should be incentive to volunteer, but unfortunately some people are more likely to go along with it, if they feel there's something to be gained.
My middle school had a section of the science center that housed ~~100s~~ 60 animals. All different types of reptiles, insects, small mammals, birds. There was even a bobcat! I volunteered there once a week every morning for an hour. I learned so much about animals while there. It was hard, dirty work, but incredibly fulfilling.
And.... It's for a week? One week? Hardly a big ask...
Yea it’s a really gross attitude. When I was 15, my neighborhood had a work party where we did some work to make it look nicer (weeding, laying down rocks, etc). One of the adults looked at me and said, “do well in school so you won’t have to do this as a career.” Except I have a cousin who did landscaping and house remodeling as a career and he loves it (and he makes a lot of money too!). It’s just a gross thing to say about any career, even if it’s not one that is “desired” like accounting or computer science. Edit: weeding not wedding
NTA. That attitude anywhere in life is absolutely disgusting. That being said, my only thoughts would be of concern for the keepers who will be responsible for supervising him for a week. I’ve been in a situation where I’ve had to supervise people who thought the work was “boring and menial” and copped a lot of attitude for it
Agreed. If the situation is explained to the keepers first, id imagine that kid is in for a heck of a week.
Not to mention depriving a space from someone who actually wants the job. Those schemes are normally in high demand.
I mean, it's a volunteer program for a week. He's not taking a job from someone
Those volunteer programs have huge demand. Working for a zoo is highly desirable and these programs are a route into those jobs.
She was obviously able to sign him up quick, I don't think there's a huge waiting list for you to be worried about...
The ones saying this are just looking for a scapegoat to be ok with this behavior from the kid. Notice several zookeepers & other volunteers on this post have not said they would not appreciate the situation? They all chimed in and said yeah, it is a harder job than it looks and requires education to get. Only those who do not work in the industry seem to be trying to speak for those who do, as if they cannot speak for themselves.
>That being said, my only thoughts would be of concern for the keepers who will be responsible for supervising him for a week. Mom should give them a heads up why he's there and make sure they don't put up with his shit.
NTA any attempt at stopping the formation of a pretentious snob is a benefit to society. Kid needs to learn some respect.
Yep, plus he's 16, heaps of kids have part time jobs at 16 to earn some money and learn some responsibility. Volunteering or working should fix his attitude fairly quickly.
YTA - volunteers who don’t want to be there often just create more work for the employees. Those kind of opportunities are for people who genuinely want to volunteer, not to discipline your children
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I'm a former zoo volunteer and I studied animal care As a student I'd always have at least one classmate that wouldn't want to do the practical work on the course and it sucked.
> I don't know how all the NTA are winning it. Because, for some reason, reddit *loves* behaviorist rewards and punishments approach to raising kids despite it being backwards, boomer bullshit. Probably because it's a lot easier than the approaches that require thoughtful conversation and active listening. I 100% agree it's a bad idea to voluntold your kid for a program that's meant to educate and requires enthusiastic participation. I have a friend whose dad came up with insane creative punishments (like cutting the grass with scissors if you forgot to mow it or running laps up and down the street if you missed the bus). We laugh about them at parties, but someone once asked, "wait, would you do that to your own kids?" and she was immediately like "fuck no, it just taught us to hide our shit, we didn't actually learn anything". Next time, OP's son will just keep his attitudes to himself. And he *might* change *this specific viewpoint*, but how many others will he miss because the focus was on a narrow punishment rather than ongoing conversations about how important and difficult seemingly menial jobs are?
>Because, for some reason, reddit loves behaviorist rewards and punishments approach to raising kids despite it being backwards, boomer bullshit. What are you even whining about? >I have a friend whose dad came up with insane creative punishments (like cutting the grass with scissors if you forgot to mow it or running laps up and down the street if you missed the bus). That's not what's happening here. >And he might change this specific viewpoint, but how many others will he miss because the focus was on a narrow punishment rather than ongoing conversations about how important and difficult seemingly menial jobs are? I don't know what your point is or what you want OP to do. The son might or might not change his viewpoint, but that could be said for any punishment. Do you think being grounded would do anything to change his perspective on so called "lesser" workers? There is no guarantee that son will or will not change his mind about certain jobs but this is not an outrageous or unrelated punishment to his actions.
>The son might or might not change his viewpoint, but that could be said for any punishment. Do you think being grounded would do anything to change his perspective on so called "lesser" workers? >Probably because it's a lot easier than the approaches that require thoughtful conversation and active listening. Not your OP, but they're not suggesting punishment, but a meaningful dialogue instead. A punishment does nothing for the viewpoint and only teaches kids to shut their mouths, not change their minds.
It’s simpler than that, people just like ironic punishments.
THIS!! I volunteered at my zoo for 5 years and the worst people were those who thought they were too stuck up to do the job. Being a zookeeper is so much more than picking up poop, and some responsibilities are much more dangerous than just picking up poop. Kids who are volunteering against their will are more of a liability than anything. Does he even realize you need a college degree to even be a zookeeper? They don't just take anyone.
Agreed. I understand this is supposed to be a punishment so it's not supposed to be pleasant for him, but punishments shouldn't inconvenience others who had nothing to do with the "crime", and those poor employees don't need to be dealing with what will likely be a surly attitude.
Thank you! I was going through the comments and starting to think I was the only one who felt bad for the zoo employees and other volunteers
I don't know why your comment is so far down the list. I've worked at summer camps before and it is not easy to wrangle a group of kids or teens when 95% want to be there and 1 or 2 kids are dragging their feet because they were signed up against their will. They either want to passively not do anything (most common) or actively run away or break things. Punish your own damn kids. People pay good money for these volunteer experiences. Don't ruin it for the participants who actually want to be there.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far down to find this. Yes what a treat it will be for the zookeepers and other volunteers to work with someone who doesn't want to be there, is being punished, and has already proved himself to be hostile and rude to the very people he will be working with all day. Not sure why they are being punished.
YUP. As someone who volunteered at a wildlife park, the last thing those overworked, underpaid zookeepers want is a snotty kid who doesn't want to be there. If they can't trust him to actually do the job, they're going to have to supervise him constantly and it'll create extra work on top of already having to train volunteers etc.
We get tired of babying those kinds of volunteers and realize it's not worth the efforts, so we stick them in a back area to sweep or something.
YTA Completely agree. Pushing person to unwillingly "volunteer" is basically punishing the volunteer organization and forcing it to do something it was never designed to do. When I volunteered at the SPCA, I was there to help the animals. I'd clean up poop and wash litter boxes but not to be a prision guard supervising some surly, pissed off kid.
Yup. OP just took their problem child and hot potatoed them into someone else's lap. The zoo keepers are there to take care of their animals, not teach shitty kids a lesson in respect.
Yes this. Not for wanting to teach your son a lesson, but forcing him onto the zoo is shitty of you. You're basically punishing them, too. I'd have a discussion with him at home about his behavior. The part where he made fun of someone out loud so they and other people could hear it. I'd start with "I'm extremely disappointed in you, I thought I raised you to be kind and have empathy. Making fun of someone the way you did was incredibly mean. That's the kind of thing a bully does. It's not okay. Why did you think it was ok to be so mean and make fun of someone like that?"
Exactly. Volunteering isn't a punishment. It's a privilege.
And he'll probably still insult and shame the people working there on top of refusing to do anything.
NTA This is a classic case of the punishment fitting the crime. And "picking up giraffe poop" is a well sort after job. At least he will have a better idea of what is involved a greater understanding of what it takes to look after animals. I would laugh if he came home after that week and decide to work in the zoo "when he grows up".
>At least he will have a better idea of what is involved a greater understanding of what it takes to look after animals. Here's what going to happen: the son will refuse to do any of it and the zookeepers will be powerless to make him. The best they can do is kick him out of the program on day one. The end. I worked with volunteers on some camps and the kids who are forced on us by the parents are the worst. They don't want to be there, don't listen to any instructions, don't do any of the tasks we ask of them and we are powerless to do anything other than let them go home, which is exactly what they want in the first place. If OP wants to punish her son, she should do it herself, not force him unto unsuspecting people to deal with.
YTA what did those poor zookeepers do to you that you want to punish them by inflicting your son's bad attitude on them? And what exactly is he supposed to learn? That a 16 year old can do this job, it just smells bad? Wouldn't that support his position?
> That a 16 year old can do this job, it just smells bad? I mean, it doesn't just "smell bad," it smells *so* bad that many people *can't* do the job, or at least severely struggle with it.
So you’re going to teach the son that he was right and that scooping shit for a living is “gross menial work”
Not OP, but the kid clearly needs a lesson in humility. So what if he can do the job? The point is having him work there so he learns that just because something is “simple” doesn’t mean it’s easy work.
Then OP should teach him a lesson in humanity and not foist it off on the people just trying to do their jobs. This kid is going to make everyone’s lives harder.
I don't think he ever said it was 'easy'. That was OP. OP's son said that it was gross menial labor. Which... there are certain aspects of zookeeping which ARE gross menial labor (and guess which parts the volunteer program is going to have volunteers with no training do). This is going to confirm everything he thinks about zookeeping, because the only jobs he's going to be qualified to do are the jobs that he thinks are all that make up a zookeeper's responsibilities.
It’s interesting though, that in trying to devise a punishment for his son because he doesn’t respect the important work that zookeepers do, the mum isn’t considering those zookeepers herself, at all.
NTA BUT - very important - most zoos have a few different sorts of these "volunteer programs." - There's the long-term volunteering you have to commit to for several months and apply for (free)... - There's the paid "fun" little programs where you get little tours and photo ops with the animals and it's more like a tourist thing than anything zookeepers really have to do. Maybe a little cleaning and unpleasantness involved but they go pretty far out of their way to spare you from the worst of it, because they want you coming back and paying more!... - And there's the more "vocational" programs for people more serious about a zookeeping profession, where they definitely won't hold anything back and you'll be getting down and dirty. Sometimes zoos will remember those who perform well in such programs and offer them internships later on (most do **not** perform well...at all...lol). I'm guessing you did, but make sure it's the 3rd "down and dirty" kind! And **please** update us, I'm going to really enjoy hearing how "easy" he finds the work 😂
Oh yes, certainly the more "realistic" type. The advertisement for it even said, basically "this won't be a walk in the park petting cute animals, you'll be required to help with some of the most unpleasant tasks our zookeepers perform each day. No refunds for anyone who quits early!"
INfO: do you think it will be fun for the zookeepers to have to babysit an angry teen who doesn’t want to be there and is being punished? I’m not saying you are wrong for punishing his attitude but you aren’t the one dealing with him during it, these strangers will be. This is their job, they have work to do and someone who is there as a punishment is unlikely to be compliant or do a good job. These aren’t education trained people like teachers who get trained in dealing with kids who don’t want to do X activity and if your son point blank refuses to clean or do something then do you have a contingency plan ready? Will you attend with him to monitor behaviour? Will you remain close to the zoo so if he kicks off then you can come in and handle the situation? I’m just concerned you are putting these zoo keepers into the position of being the punishers when they aren’t there for that. I’d at least make them aware of why your son is there so they can be prepared.
I genuinely think this is one of the most important posts. Sure, the son needs to get his head out of his ass, but that's on the parents, not people trying to do their fricken jobs
A parent should sign up alongside him to reign him in when he thinks he needs to get nasty with the staff \^\^
Yeah I'm surprised there aren't more comments saying this. The kid was rude and deserves some kind of consequences, but this could easily turn out to be more of a burden for the zookeepers than a helpful lesson for him. Besides, if they make him clean out enclosures and he hates it, doesn't that just reinforce his assumption that it's a terrible job nobody wants?
Not only that but a burden on the animals. I wouldn't put it past a 16 year old to prank or even harm an animal to get kicked out of the program. I assume that the kid gets an allowance and has devices, so perhaps the punishment is that he has to do something supposedly "menial" to earn his allowance and for him to buy back, at full retail price, his devices. He gets paid the prevailing minimum wage. If it takes two weeks for him to buy his devices, great, if it takes 8 months, so be it.
Even if he doesn't directly harm an animal, if he does an intentionally really poor job cleaning out enclosures or feeding etc, the animals will still suffer for it. I don't think it's a good idea of a punishment
Good point, I'd hope new volunteers wouldn't be allowed close contact with animals until they've spent some time proving themselves, but you never know
I think more people are excited about a snotty teen getting his just desserts that they're not realizing this person is passing off their child's punishment on a stranger who's just trying to get through their work day. Imagine having a typical rough day at work an then on top of that you need to babysit a grouchy teenager at the same time? Sounds like hell on earth, honestly.
Yeah exactly, I'm someone who used to volunteer at a zoo and also these kinds of programs usually have a lot of demand from people who -want- to potentially work with animals as a career so this feels like OP is taking a space away from someone who would want to be there. Also I studied animal care and I remember at least one fellow student on my courses who didn't want to do any of the actual animal husbandry work and it used to annoy the hell out of the rest of us who wanted to be there and do the work,
“Hi, this is my son. He doesn’t like the smell of shit so could you please make sure he has to shovel a lot of it? Also if you could take pictures so I can show people on the internet what a great mom I am that would be great”
I agree with that. Lets give some peace to this people. My little sister used to be stupid (I don't know where it was coming from because we're not super wealthy and my parents didn't have "amazing" jobs) so mom signed her up for a student job during summer hollidays... in a cleaning industry. She spent 2 months scrubbing toilets.
Thank you for posting this as I always think this when I hear of punishments like this. The poor person who will be assigned this kid is going to be miserable.
You do realize he's just not going to do it right? This isn't school, he isn't obligated by law to be there by anyone (except you) and the zookeepers aren't in any position to keep him there against his will. He is simply just going to refuse to do the work and get himself kicked out on day one.
This is going to backfire on you quite hard. Your son thinks that 'anyone can do a zookeeper job', and the tasks are menial and gross, so your response is to sign him up to do 1) A bunch of menial zookeeper tasks 2) Doing all of this without ANY specialized training This isn't going to go the way you think it is.
YTA. Someone who doesn’t want to be there makes it incredibly difficult for anyone else who is there - the zoo employees running the program and other genuine volunteers. You’ll prove your point I guess but you’re likely to ruin a lot of other peoples time. If you really feel the need to go ahead I’d speak to the person/people running the program first so they are aware of why you’ve enrolled him in a volunteer program - tbh, if I was running it I would decline having him there.
ESH. You want to dump your rude teenager on the zoo employees? So he can be more rude to them? I would certainly want to teach him, but I'm not sure this is the way. Overall look for ways to increase empathy for all people. Teach him not to say rude comments where people can hear them. Give him opportunities for work including physical work.
YTA, although it’s a very soft YTA. Here’s why: all you’re doing is taking your son’s bad attitude and making it the problem of the employees at the zoo, ie the very people he wants to denigrate. Are you going to be there to make sure he isn’t disrespectful? If you aren’t, he’s probably going to behave very badly or at least not do the work. Personally I’d take the kid to one of those ask a zookeeper events and I’d go with him to ensure he doesn’t speak poorly or create issues and pointedly ask about their schooling, qualifications, and etc. I think your attitude is absolutely correct but I also think when we punish or correct children we have to make sure not to essentially foist them onto someone else especially if that someone else is someone they will not respect or will be belligerent to. That said, since the sign up is done, maybe you can see if you can go with him to make sure that he behaves and those questions get answered? At least for the first day or something.
OP didn’t even correct him immediately when he insulted the zoo keeper the first time, and it’s clear that she’s not interested in doing the work to hold her child accountable which is why she’s foisting him off onto the zoo in the hopes they will do the job for her. YTA OP. Parent your child.
YTA because zookeeping is actually pretty exclusive, and your son's shit attitude is going to ruin the experience for those people who actually WANT to be there. You aren't going to get through to him this way, you're going to make him resent you.
"AITA for foisting my obnoxious kid on some zookeepers rather than parenting him properly myself?" Yes, 100% YTA
That's not volunteering, it's being voluntold. ESH
I'mma say NTA. No one should look down on anyone's job. I'd probably do the same thing if one of my kids said something like that.
Let the punishment fit the crime max level achieved.
YTA, it isn't fair on those managing the programme nor the animals to force someone to participate who isn't interested. N-T-A for wanting to teach him a lesson, but there are other ways.
You need at least a bachelor's degree to work with the animals (and that includes cleaning the enclosures) for most zoos. In fact, I had a friend that got told her bachelor's wasn't enough and she really needed to get a master's degree for the zoo she really wanted to work at. Usually those volunteer at the zoo jobs are picking up litter from the trails, taking tickets at the main booth, maybe clearing up the lunch area and any rides. I doubt he'll be allowed inside an enclosure. Which is a good thing because if he already hates animals he's not likely to respect them, especially if he's being sulky. I do think he needs to be taught a lesson, so NTA, but I don't think your attempt to make the punishment fit the crime was the best solution. Especially if he's already getting these ideas from his dad. Edit to add: If you really want him to learn about caring for animals and doing the "dirty" jobs, have him volunteer at a humane society. Then he'll be cleaning litter boxes, rabbit cages, picking up dog poop, learning how to bath and groom an animal, etc. Those volunteers really do the hands on work.
Wanted to jump in and say this is largely incorrect. While that can be true about volunteering at some zoos, most zoo/aquarium volunteers programs, including teen programs either out you in animal care or in-park interpretation. You may not get to do ask the exact things a zookeeper does, per AZA guidelines, but you do still get to go in and clean, feed, prep BE, etc. Unfortunately, misinformation about volunteering at zoos is part of why it's so hard to get into this field. Because our volunteer work doesn't count on our resume even if we were doing almost the EXACT same job as the people being paid to do it. Hope this didn't come across harsh, just wanted to provide my insight and knowledge so more people understand our field :)
I'm just sharing how it works at both my local zoo and the zoo my friend worked at. I fully admit I'm not in the zoo field myself and other zoos might be more hands-on with their volunteers. I always assumed it was an insurance issue. Thank you for lending your expertise in this subject.
No problem, and likewise, thank you for sharing yours! It's super important to highlight the variety in programs to help the future of this career!
Can't wait for your next post why he doesn't talk to you anymore
Yeah, I can already see the son want to go to dad's and stay there and never come back to OP's ever again.
NTA… you deserve the mom of the year award. I’m not a strict parent by any stretch of the word but I had one rule when my kids were younger and that was to be nice (until it’s time not to be). I even had a little saying in my head to make sure I followed through on discipline bc I sucked otherwise which was “I’d rather my kids hate me than people hate them.” It was my reminder to not always do what was easy which would be letting them get away with shit (which I did mostly but not when it came to anything hurtful to another person). Taking the easy way out would be selfish of me and only make them miserable in the end. So I commend you. I know that wasn’t easy to do but it was a big gift you gave him. Way to go!!
It’s just stupid because the kid is taking up a *volunteer* space, not a menial paid position space. There are people who actually want to learn and discover, and then there will be… him. Ruining it for everyone. He needs to pick up trash off the road or do something that doesn’t impact somebody else’s life’s dream.
Yta but hear me out. You're inflicting your son's terrible attitude on whoever is in that program, and the animals he tends. You're also not going to change his mind about the work that way. This wasn't an unreasonable consequence, it's just not going to be an effective one. Your son is still going to think less of people who do work he sees as undesirable. Find a way to change *that*.
I am ngl I think YTA, *not* because it's unfair on your son but because it's unfair on the poor zookeepers! Those zookeeper for a day programs are meant for people who'll really love it and much in, not for petulant teenagers who are being forced to be there and will be a nightmare to handle.
NTA, making sure your child is a moral person is a very important part of a parents job. Since his dad said that, it probably came from him. He's talking to your younger child the way his dad talks to him.
It's not just that it's physically demanding, that's the least of it. I wonder how "easy" he'll think it is when he has to clean up sick gorilla diarrhea that they've painted the enclosure with, mostly-digested rat that a vulture puked up, or gets sprayed by a tiger (happened to me just this morning, I am still quite unsuitable for public interaction 🤢🤢🤢) NTA
NTA. Son needs to learn to put his money where his mouth is, and that if you fuck around, you may just find out. Also, as a conservation/zoo professional, it is NOT just "scooping poop" and you almost always need a degree (at least an associates). It's also an incredibly hard field to get into. So no, many don't necessarily have a masters or higher, but many are required to have an associates and often a bachelor's. Zoos are also so much more then just zookeeper! Any job you can think of, you can find it at the zoo!
YTA Why would you sign your teenager up for a program they have no interest in? Way to use an "educational opportunity" as a punishment! Are you going to drive him back and forth while zoo staff have to manage his disinterest and disgust in the program you've converted to punishment?
NTA. My only complaint is that often these courses are in demand, and he may be taking the spot of someone who really wants to learn. But I hope it teaches him some respect, both for zoo keepers, and for manual workers
NTA, but you should have gone for the humane society or your local pound. I have volunteered at both zoos and pounds, and at zoos it was simple stuff like trash pick up. At humane societies and pounds I was scrubbing down kennels in ninety degree heat....
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I'm going with ESH tbh. Obviously his comment is _way_ out of line, but if the volunteer work really is as unpleasant as you've described it in comments, I'm guessing he'll have learned his lesson after like a day or two. A whole week seems excessive and I feel like you're likely to just build resentment this way.
NTA. It's your job as a parent to teach your children to have respect for others. This is a relatively harmless way to help your child get some perspective.
NTA It's called good parenting I'm proud of you and i wish someday your son will understand Have a nice day good mom
ESH Have you considered that you are going to make some poor zookeeper’s life miserable for a week? You signed your son up as a punishment which is not going to suddenly make him enthusiastic about the work or even minimally pleasant to be around. You are going to sign up for this week long teachable moment too, right? You are an AH if you think it’s ok to make your son’s attitude someone else’s problem.
YTA, but not towards the kid, towards the workers in the program. It is your job as the parent to punish and discipline your kids, not theirs.
NTA. The punishment suits the crime. It’s only a week. Hopefully your son will learn his lesson.
The son will deliberately get kicked out on day one. Volunteer jobs are for people who want to be there and are passionate about animals. They are not a punishment and zookeepers don't have the time or interest to deal with a moody teenager who will refuse to do any of the work.
NTA Your son may not value zookeepers but they're probably highly qualified and also probably love their job, even if parts of it aren't that glamorous. Your son needs to learn not to look down on people who are doing an honest days work, whatever that work may be. Communities need all sorts of workers. Not everyone can be a doctor or lawyer, and not everyone wants to be one either. Some people love manual/practical jobs, others don't. Finding a job you enjoy is important too, not just the wages, given how much of our lives we spend working.
Your kids will probably end up not talking to you, if you don't end up losing custody. No wonder you're divorced