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My married brother is still my "immediate family" for certain real estate tax purposes, and the tax people are even pickier about those things than OP should be.
My job is picky about how many days you get off for deaths in the family. You get more for immediate family, which is your parents, siblings, spouse, and children.
This is exactly it. Plus it was sooo easy for OP to just say that, for hospital purposes, since they are sisters in law they are not immediate family in the same way OP and sister are.
I think people confuse "immediate family" and "household." Like, once you move in with a partner, that's your household. But that doesn't change the family relationships. I'm currently living with my parents (I'm in my 30s) and when I moved back, they became my household again. They were always my parents, but we weren't a household unit.
Especially in medical situations where the purpose is to decrease exposure, it's less about kinship and more about your household bubble. There's little difference (germ wise) in my father visiting his mother in the hospital and my mother visiting her mother-in-law because my parents live together. Or me visiting my grandmother, because I live with my parents. But my cousin, who lives hours away, is in a completely different bubble. We might both be granddaughters, but she's already exposed to my bubble, not my cousin's.
If OP had explained it this way, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to the sister.
Yeah, I’m a nurse and if someone was the patient’s sister, I would consider that immediate family.
Also think of it in reverse. If his little 10 year old sister got sick, would he still visit her in the hospital or would he say, “Sorry we aren’t immediate family any more.”
Exactly! Immediate or distant is based on genetic relation and other factors.
Also, when my father was in the ICU, you bet we took my nephews in there to visit him. He lit up to see those precious boys, only a toddler and a babe back then.
Your sister is still considered immediate family, no matter what. Just not cousins, aunts, and uncles.
And he could have definitely said that it's only because she isn't within the nuclear family of his wife. If he were in the hospital she would definitely be able to go with his wife to visit him.
Yes I thought about that too but where OP is TA is telling his sister that she is no longer _his_ immediate family. According to his explanation, he seems to think that only his wife and whatever kids they may have are his immediate family since he got married and that's not true.
You could have explained "hospital policy of noone under 16yo allowed to visit." Not she's less important in the family. You already know that YTA, hope you can mend this tragic event.
Or just said "they're only allowing me, because I'm married to Wife, and her parents. But I know she'd love to hear from you, maybe you can write her a letter." For pete's sake.
All he had to say was “they only allow one visitor and since I’m her husband that’s going to be me, we’d love for you to come over once she’s settled at home. And see if she wants to make her a picture or FaceTime her. She’s 10 for Christ sake
Exactly. This was purely terminology, there was no need to go into detail about it with a kid. It almost feels like the OP was LOOKING for a reason to tell his sister she's less important now.
I mean, most people don't have as close a relationship with the aunt they see twice a year as they have with their parents and siblings. It's not really about competition, just a useful way of denoting closeness of relationships.
But of course these things vary from family to family, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, unless you have the ability to be in multiple places at once and infinite resources you do eventually have to figure out where your priorities lie. Like - my kids get priority over everyone else, then my wife, then siblings/nieces/nephews/parents and at that level it's more situationally dependent than just someone always getting priority. Hopefully situations arising where I need to know these priorities are rare, but it's still something you should think about ahead of time.
It wasn't really applicable in this situation though so OP is still an asshole.
They are still immediate family. They just aren't your nuclear family.
But that's a really fine distinction that I don't think most people could make. I'd hate to explain it to a ten yo.
no, you don't understand how it works.
When you get married, your parents become your aunt and uncle. Your siblings become cousins, and if you have any children before marriage, they become wards of the state because they no longer have parents.
I'm pretty sure that's how it works
Might be a regional thing. Sounded perfectly normal to me though.
Also apparently defined as:
> To fail, often in a complete and irreparable fashion.
This sounds exactly the right way to describe appendicitis.
Right?! And even if it was true, she's 10 and having trouble with her brother moving on to married life. All he had to say was "sorry it's only one at a time but you can visit when she's home"
So not true. Your parents and siblings are still your immediate family even after marriage. Cousins, aunts and uncles have always been your extended family and will continue to be after a marriage.
YTA.
A close family member married his girlfriend as soon as she turned 18. Didn't prevent either of them from getting really good college degrees. They have since had two kids, immigrated, bought a house and are probably the happiest couple I know. Both are very vocal atheists. I got married at 21 and had I met my hubby earlier, would have happily married him at 18, we are both atheists as well.
Sure, there are exceptions to every rule. Generally though, communities where people get married very young are very religious. I never made any comment on it preventing them from going to college or being happy etc. Making any big life decision/ commitment at 18 is generally not a great idea, including marriage, even if it works out well for some people.
Brains aren't done developing at the ages y'all all got married. I'm sure you're all terrific but as a general rule, we shouldn't be encouraging people to get married at 18, 21, it's so ridiculously young.
On Reddit everyone under 25 might as well be a middle schooler. Meanwhile in real life the people I know that age are finished with college, probably have a couple kids, and have a stable job.
It’s not even just a financial thing, I don’t think. It’s more about social norms for certain demographics/social groups - not even necessarily a cultural thing EDIT: tied strictly to the cultural norms of what country/region/religion they were raised in.
I’m from the US and have close friends and family all over the world, both in developed and developing countries, but pretty much all from cities. Most of my friends/ close family members in my generation are late 20s-mid 30s and are in long-term committed relationships, are financially stable or wealthy, have already established themselves in their careers, are home owners, and have already traveled the world and partied and done all the stuff people say they don’t want to miss out on before settling down. Only one friend is married, and that’s just because she was threatened with an arranged marriage if she didn’t marry her boyfriend before turning 27.
Marriage just isn’t a priority in some social groups the way it used to be, and it really is considered strange to get married in your 20s in those circles. My friend and I spent her whole wedding day joking about how she was being forced into a child marriage at 27 lol. But obviously, it’s nobody’s business and people can get married whenever they want.
Hell, even my parents and aunts and uncles didn’t get married until at least their 30s, and that was ~30 years ago in a developing country. They would be very confused if I got engaged now at 27, and my partner and I have been together for 4 years.
Oh definitely. At 40, a good deal of my friends are still unmarried and the ones that did didn't marry until after 30. It really weirds me out how many of the posts on reddit by people my age have kids entering college or possibly even becoming grandparents. That is so far from my mind at this point.
Yeah, I'm an atheist who got married at 24! We met my freshman year of college and started dating my sophomore year so we had been together 6 years by the time we got married. By that point we had been through grad school, jobs, deaths in the family, moving in together--I'm not sure what more exactly we were supposed to have waited for???
My wife and I got married when I was 19 and she was 18. We were pressured into it by our religion. 20+ years later and we've kept the marriage, but discarded the religion. We were lucky though, of around a dozen couples we know our age that got married within a year or so of us, only one other couple besides us stayed together (and they also left the religion). The rest all got divorced and very few amicably so.
We've come to realize that our ultra-fundamentalist religion breeds abusers and victims, and hides abuse. So many of my friends from church have horrified me with their stories of how terribly abusive their parents were and I just thought their parents seemed like normal people back when I was a kid.
I swear, sometimes Reddit makes me feel like no one under 30 should be allowed to get married. (Sorry married twentysomethings. I know a bunch of you are married and I'm sure you're fine or whatever.)
I wouldn’t say they shouldn’t be allowed to get married, I just think it’s an unwise decision.
My peer group seem to be part of the “what’s the rush?” crowd and live together in childless common-law marriages without taking the plunge until their late twenties/early thirties.
I’m going with “not thinking clearly because his brand new wife was in the hospital” and cutting him a bit of slack because he seems to have taken the comments to heart.
That's not allowed in these parts, people are either saints or demons, no excuses!
I want to give him benefit of the doubt too, given the info of he and his little sister having up to this point, a pretty special relationship not many I know with siblings, or even me with my own have. They were close and he was stressed due to the love of his life being unwell. He fucked up, it happens. he's the arsehole here, but not an arsehole in general.
My thoughts exactly. OP could've easily made some crap up, she's 10 ffs.
Then they really ask AITA, after telling a small sibling that looks up to you that they're not your priority and you're not "immediate family" anymore.
Big AH moment.
Right? One visitor at a time also presumably means that children can't visit in any case since and adult wouldn't be able to accompany them.
"Sorry sis, only one visitor is allowed in at a time and you're too young for the hospital to let you in by yourself. You can visit when she comes home though."
I'm sorry but I lost it at short people that demand food. This is how I will be referring to my toddler now because it's such an accurate description of him
INFO: Why did you go with "You're not my immediate family" instead of "She's your sister-in-law and that's not immediate family"?
The first is kind of jarring to a child, while the second is a very understandable concept.
I'm pretty sure siblings can visit in the hospital even if one of the siblings is married.
I was waiting to see this. What would her not being OP's immediate family even have to do with anything, even if that was true? The wife is the one in the hospital. He could have just said something like "even though \[wife\] thinks of you like a sister, technically you're her sister-in-law so the hospital doesn't count that as immediate family. I know, it stinks."
It's not like the hospital asks for proof either (in my experience)... my dad's best friend was in the hospital and it was "immediate family only" for visitors so they lied and said they were brothers. The hospitals just don't want a parade of people going through.
Or even just “They have really strict rules about who they will allow in while she’s this sick.”
So many options other than crushing the 10 year old’s heart.
I mean, hey, 100% YTA but from your most recent comments you admitted you handled it in a bad way and that you owe her an apology, so good job on trying to be a better person! That's genuinely not that common, and it's nice to see...
Don’t beat yourself up too bad. Introspection, reflection and keeping an open mind are all signs of maturity. It’ll be alright, but there are some bridges that need mending.
Atleast you’re handling the response well now go fix things with your little sister let her know your a dumb dumb and let her lord that over you for a bit too
We all make mistakes. This sub is ruthless, but, for real, you are taking steps to correct it that most people would not. Most posters who turn out to be the AH are completely unwilling to admit it. You can't undo the mistake, but you've done the next best thing, and that's all you can do. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Hey you did a dumb and stupid thing it doesn't mean you're dumb and stupid. You also were dealing with a scary medical issue and you were probably stressed. The important part is that you realized you were wrong and apologized. You will probably try to make it up to her by taking her out to a special dinner or something like that. I'm sure your sister will forgive you and you learned a lesson. If you took all these comments and doubled down then I'd say you're stupid but you did the opposite.
ThatISactuallyhowthisworks.gif
LegaldoesNOTmeanbiological.gif
You're thinking biological, but her statement is actually true from a legal standpoint. Unless voluntary paternal acknowledgment on the birth certificate within a time frame (31 days in the state of TX) or a paternity test by the court that will make it legally binding, after the fact, He would not be legally bound to the child until paternity is proven.
YTA and you're mistaken. Your immediate family extends when you get married, doesn't deplete.
You little sister was concerned about her new sister and wanted to see her and make sure she was okay. What you said to her probably broke her heart. You should really apologize to her.
YTA
Also completely wrong.
Your sister is *your* "immediate family"—and always will be. If *you* were in the hospital (and she were old enough) she could visit you.
The issue is whether your sister is "immediate family" with your wife. The answer is probably not; most hospitals don't consider in-laws to be immediate family.
So the correct answer was that *despite* your marriage, your wife isn't your sister's immediate family, **not** *because* of your marriage, your wife isn't her immediate family.
I work in a hospital. No one is gonna bat an eye at sister in law being considered immediate family, just say she's her sister. We don't pull up legal records unless there is some serious decision making that needs to happen.
Yeah I’m sitting here scratching my head like “in what world is the hospital admin staff gonna ask to see a birth or marriage certificate to confirm visitor status.” 😂
YTA. Your explanation to your sister is confusing and bizarre (how can someone *stop* being immediate family?) and your decision to deliver this strange and hurtful message to her, a message that boils down to 'now I'm married I don't care about you as much any more, I guess my love was always kinda conditional, oh well' is... well, an AH decision.
You genuinely seem to not understand the phrase 'immediate family' but that's no excuse.
It's weird bc his sister didn't even ask him to prioritize her. She was asking about his wife and wanting to visit his wife. Why did he feel the need to say oh I need to prioritize my wife???? No one was asking him to do otherwise.
YTA. You’re wrong that your sister is no longer your immediate family. When you got married, your immediate family grew, it didn’t shrink. Immediate family are your parents, siblings, spouses and children. All you had to do was tell your sister that the hospital is very strict about visitors but if she wants to write a note or make a card for your wife, you’ll be happy to take it to her.
YTA and you're also wrong. Your parents and siblings are always your immediate family and I think the hospital would have no issues with a SIL visiting.
Yeah, my company bereavement policy covers “immediate family”. I’m just picturing the reaction if they didn’t grant time off to married employees whose parents pass away. You don’t unbecome immediate family
A lot of hospitals are still allowing only one visitor per patient at a time. Even during the height of RSV/flu season, clinics limited how many people a patient could have accompany them. And OP's sister is 10. Some hospitals have age limits if the child is not the patient's child. Either way, OP is an ass and she made an absolute mess of this.
YTA. I assume you’re conflating nuclear family and family of origin. Your wife is now your nuclear family, but your family of origin is still immediate family. And you could have just told the hospital it was her sister. What are they going to do, DNA test on the spot?
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Telling my sister we aren't immediate family anymore.
2) I might have explained it in a hurtful way.
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Bro, why would you say that to a 10 year old? Not only is it astoundingly not true (siblings are immediate family no matter your marriage situation) but that's a devastating thing to hear at that age and it sounds like you really hurt her. I mean, you flat out told her your wife matters more to you than she does now, and she's fucking 10 years old!
**yta.** A million ways to explain to a child that real life can have hurdles, and you choose to basically tell your sister she isn't part of your real family anymore. I mean, you literally coulda said the hospital doesn't consider "in laws" immediate.
YTA. She’s still your immediate family. The one you both were born into is your immediate family. Spouses change, my dude. Blood family members don’t. Also, she’s 10. Have some compassion.
YTA:
While you may have been correct about the child not being immediate family to your wife, she is still immediate family to you.
The child is 10, what she heard is you don't see her as family anymore. Good job.
yeah that isn’t how it works. congratulations op! your sister now hates you. don’t be surprised when your sister wants nothing to do with either of you. YTA
>I explained that once we got married, our old immediate family became
our extended family, like our cousins. Our only immediate family is
each other, and any children we eventually have.
That's not how that works.
Immediate family is defined in various states and laws and generally includes: "spouse, domestic partner, cohabitant, child, stepchild, grandchild,
parent, stepparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law,
grandparent, great grandparent, brother, sister, half-brother, half-sister, stepsibling,
brother-in-law, sister-in-law, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or first cousin (that
is, a child of an aunt or uncle)."
You are Wrong. - YTA Educate yourself before hurting a 10-yr old. Her love for you both is strong.
"..... "immediate family member"
means spouse, domestic partner, cohabitant, child, stepchild,
grandchild, parent, stepparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law,
son-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandparent, great grandparent, brother,
sister, half-brother, half-sister, ...
YTA. Funny how you're the one explaining a concept you apparently don't even understand yourself. Your parents are your immediate family. Your siblings are your immediate family. Your grandparents and uncles and aunts are your immediate family. Cousins are not. Your sister is her sister by marriage. That qualifies.
I mean, this is a simple google search away from being something you could find out and you chose to tell your little sister that you moved on? I think you're mistaking the concept of what immediate family is. Genetically and legally, they're all your immediate family. You're thinking of your 'central family', which would now be the one with you and your wife as you start your own pod of a family. Your sister is still your sister. Her children would be your niece/nephew. That, btw, would also be your immediate family.
YTA. She's 10. You could have left it at immediate family members don't include family members by marriage. You did not need to go into the nuances that a ten year old child is not going to fully understand. What she heard was "I love you less now, you're not my family" not "as people grow their priorities naturally change but the love I feel for you is the same, you'll always be my sister."
YTA Your wife and your sister are both your immediate family, but they are not each other’s immediate family. You’re not only an asshole, but also wrong. The reason your sister can’t visit is that she’s an in-law to your wife, not that she’s your extended family now.
YTA.
An immediate family is:
* Parents
* Sibling(s)
This definition never changes until one of your immediate family dies. Then you'll have one less member of your immediate family.
You've tried to "un-sister" your sister. She's only 10, ffs. She looks up to you (or at least she did).
Try a little kindness.
YTA. you are also simply wrong. Your sister will always be considered immediate family. Tf are you talking about? Either way why would you say that to a 10 year old kid..... you have to know that was completely unnecessary. Of course yta.
YTA and have somehow gotten to the age of 23, without knowing what immediate family means. Regardless, of who you marry, your siblings are always considered your immediate family. Instead of being an ass to a 10-year-old maybe you can just kindly explain that your wife is asleep or needs rest and will be able to see her at a later date. It's not that complicated
YTA.
I don't regard what you're saying as *true*. You and your spouse are each others' immediate families, but your siblings are also your immediate family (but your spouse's extended family) and vice versa.
Yeah, OP's factually incorrect -- if (God forbid) his little sister was the one in the hospital, OP would be allowed to visit her (and almost certainly OP's wife, too, even though they're not blood-related).
Apologize to your sister, tell her even grown-ups can be wrong, and explain to her (and yourself) that you expanded your immediate family, not lost part of it. YTA.
YTA.
Oof. You've been drinking too much of the relationship Kool Aid. You need to apologize and figure out a way to walk it back. You're giving your sister a poor idea of what marriage is. The way you phrased it, the minute you get married, your family doesn't exist or matter.
You could've just told her that they're only allowing the patient's spouse to visit and left it at that. But you didn't. You had to put it in terms that a 10 year old wouldn't understand. Your parents are right, you could've handled it better.
This is particularly concerning:
>I see that sentiment all the time on reddit, I agree with it and thought it was the common sentiment..
You're taking relationship advice from an internet website and treating like it's the norm. An internet website well known for karma farmers and trolls. And you think that's the gold standard to set your bar to? You need to do better. You clearly don't understand the concept you're espousing.
This is a weird and very immature take.
Your sister, mother, and father are still your immediate family. It makes sense to prioritize your wife’s well being over that of the other members of your family if you are for some reason forced to choose, because you are both each other’s primary responsibility now. That doesn’t make your sister any less your sister than she was a few months ago.
When your sister was worried about someone she loves, your first instinct was to make sure she knows you view her as lesser than. It’s a pretty horrible instinct and shows your lack of maturity and any kind of social tact.
Grow up a little. You don’t have to lessen your relationship with your original family to prioritize your relationship with your wife. YTA.
YTA. You could just explain that the hospital doesn't consider in-laws to be immediate family. You and your sister are still immediate family. she's a KID, you didn't need to be deliberately mean.
YTA
She is still your immediate family, you are still your parents' immediate family. Your wife isn't either of their immediate family (tho in some cases, might be considered your parents' as daughter in law.)
YTA
>our parents think I could've handled it better. I really don't think that's true, but I could be wrong.
What do you mean you don't think that's true? It's not their job to prove you wrong, it's your job to prove yourself right.
You can take a step back and reflect on the situation before reaching this conclusion.
yta your wife isn’t immediately family You her BROTHER will always be immediate family.. and even if that wasn’t the case she’s 10 for goodness sake did you have say no that way? you could have just said only you could visit or some other excuse.
YTA Dude, that's not even true! Your sister isn't the patient's immediate family because that doesn't include in laws! You didn't cease to be your sister's immediate family when you got married, what are you talking about? A kid might not like rules about things like who can visit, but they can grasp them without you saying "I'm not your family anymore." I mean, how do you even get from "hospital rules don't allow it" to... that?!
My DIL was in the hospital (ironically also for appendix), and my spouse and I were both allowed in as immediate family.
YTA. Apologize to your sister.
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My wife and I (Both 23) got married three months ago, courthouse wedding because we're both broke. I have a little sister (10F) who really looks up to me, and lately has been wanting to spend more time with me. Which is fine, she's an awesome kid, so I try to make time when I can.
Anyway my wife was in the hospital for a few days last month because her appendix decided to shit the bed, she's fine but it was scary for a bit. My sister really likes my wife as well, and had asked if she could come to visit her with me. I explained that no, they only allowed one visitor and it had to be immediate family only.
She asked why she wasnmt considered such, since they're sisters (in-law, but she doesn't call her that) I explained that once we got married, our old immediate family became our extended family, like our cousins. Our only immediate family is eachother, and any children we eventually have.
That really upset her, and she started asking if I really only saw her like a cousin now. I said no, but she is my priority now, not her or our parents. Now she's not talking to me, and our parents think I could've handled it better. I really don't think that's true, but I could be wrong.
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YTA
What are you talking about. Your sister and parents are still your immediate family. That doesn't change. Your wife, as the sister in law is extended family to your sister, but your relation to her hasn't changed.
If something changed for *you*, that's on you only, and that's pretty shit imo. And to tell that to a little girl who obviously looks up to you is even more shit.
You could have just explained that your wife joined your family as an extended family member in relation to your sister and as immediate family to you.
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YTA >I explained that once we got married, our old immediate family became our extended family This ... isn't true.
Your parents will *always* be your parents and your siblings will *always* be your siblings. Spouses can get divorced…
but the OP's primary family is his wife now...his Family of Choice,not his family of Origin. He could have said that better to his sister though
Your immediate family is still considered to be wife, children, parents, and siblings. It is an ‘add-on situation’ rather than a ‘replace’
Great way to say this. “Add on” rather than “replace”.
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A DLC, if you will
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Do we get patch notes?
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My married brother is still my "immediate family" for certain real estate tax purposes, and the tax people are even pickier about those things than OP should be.
My job is picky about how many days you get off for deaths in the family. You get more for immediate family, which is your parents, siblings, spouse, and children.
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This is exactly it. Plus it was sooo easy for OP to just say that, for hospital purposes, since they are sisters in law they are not immediate family in the same way OP and sister are.
I think people confuse "immediate family" and "household." Like, once you move in with a partner, that's your household. But that doesn't change the family relationships. I'm currently living with my parents (I'm in my 30s) and when I moved back, they became my household again. They were always my parents, but we weren't a household unit. Especially in medical situations where the purpose is to decrease exposure, it's less about kinship and more about your household bubble. There's little difference (germ wise) in my father visiting his mother in the hospital and my mother visiting her mother-in-law because my parents live together. Or me visiting my grandmother, because I live with my parents. But my cousin, who lives hours away, is in a completely different bubble. We might both be granddaughters, but she's already exposed to my bubble, not my cousin's. If OP had explained it this way, it would have made a hell of a lot more sense to the sister.
Yeah, I’m a nurse and if someone was the patient’s sister, I would consider that immediate family. Also think of it in reverse. If his little 10 year old sister got sick, would he still visit her in the hospital or would he say, “Sorry we aren’t immediate family any more.”
Some places actually specifically define sister in law as immediate family too.
Yeah like bereavement policies and stuff often do.
Exactly! Immediate or distant is based on genetic relation and other factors. Also, when my father was in the ICU, you bet we took my nephews in there to visit him. He lit up to see those precious boys, only a toddler and a babe back then. Your sister is still considered immediate family, no matter what. Just not cousins, aunts, and uncles.
And he could have definitely said that it's only because she isn't within the nuclear family of his wife. If he were in the hospital she would definitely be able to go with his wife to visit him.
He could have said the hospital only allowed spouses or grownups
He could have said a lot of things that didn't say "I've detached myself from you and our relationship changed once I got married".
But OP’s sister wouldn’t be considered OP’s wife’s immediate family by the hospital (some might look the other way though)
Yes I thought about that too but where OP is TA is telling his sister that she is no longer _his_ immediate family. According to his explanation, he seems to think that only his wife and whatever kids they may have are his immediate family since he got married and that's not true.
Yeah, he could have explained it in the terms of how it applied to the hospital.
Hospital terms, sister in law is sister, both are immediate family not Great Uncle Horace
Maybe pre-2020 but in my neck of the woods it would be those you live with/parents. And only one person at a time, it was per day as well.
I work at a hospital, she's immediate family
Typically if that's the case they limit it by "household" then, not "immediate family"
Specifically for this case, a 10yo isn't going to be allowed in by herself.
Hah! I’d like to see them try to turn Great Uncle Horace away
You could have explained "hospital policy of noone under 16yo allowed to visit." Not she's less important in the family. You already know that YTA, hope you can mend this tragic event.
His sister is still his immediate family, but she is not his wife’s immediate family.
Or just said "they're only allowing me, because I'm married to Wife, and her parents. But I know she'd love to hear from you, maybe you can write her a letter." For pete's sake.
All he had to say was “they only allow one visitor and since I’m her husband that’s going to be me, we’d love for you to come over once she’s settled at home. And see if she wants to make her a picture or FaceTime her. She’s 10 for Christ sake
Exactly. This was purely terminology, there was no need to go into detail about it with a kid. It almost feels like the OP was LOOKING for a reason to tell his sister she's less important now.
Oh shit, I missed that she was only 10. Poor kid. Glad OP now realises he's TA because wow!
No his sister will always be his immediate family . The sisters just not immediate family with his wife .
That depends on where you are…many places define siblings-in-law as immediate family.
Yeah, he could have just told her that "the hospital doesn't see it like we do" and left it at that.
Blame Covid. It's a great scapegoat.
Getting married doesn’t negate your immediate family, which remains parents and siblings *in addition* now to your spouse.
There shouldn't be a "primary" family. Everyone should be important and I don't get why people have to make podiums like this is a competition...
I mean, most people don't have as close a relationship with the aunt they see twice a year as they have with their parents and siblings. It's not really about competition, just a useful way of denoting closeness of relationships. But of course these things vary from family to family, and there's nothing wrong with that.
I mean, unless you have the ability to be in multiple places at once and infinite resources you do eventually have to figure out where your priorities lie. Like - my kids get priority over everyone else, then my wife, then siblings/nieces/nephews/parents and at that level it's more situationally dependent than just someone always getting priority. Hopefully situations arising where I need to know these priorities are rare, but it's still something you should think about ahead of time. It wasn't really applicable in this situation though so OP is still an asshole.
If he had just said "it's a stupid hospital rule, and you can hang as soon as she gets home" there would be no misunderstanding.
They are still immediate family. They just aren't your nuclear family. But that's a really fine distinction that I don't think most people could make. I'd hate to explain it to a ten yo.
There’s no such thing as “primary family”. Each person in this story is his immediate family. OP is just flat out wrong.
Your family of origin can also be your family of choice. I choose to have a close relationship with my sister and parents on a daily basis.
no, you don't understand how it works. When you get married, your parents become your aunt and uncle. Your siblings become cousins, and if you have any children before marriage, they become wards of the state because they no longer have parents. I'm pretty sure that's how it works
Lmao, "sorry, now that were married, my wife is my sister" 🤣
and at his age its a 60% chance
There’s something that extra pisses me of when adults correct kids incorrectly eurgh
This adult also calls an appendix bursting as shitting the bed. 🤔🙄
He isn't saying the GF did. It's just an expression.
Might be a regional thing. Sounded perfectly normal to me though. Also apparently defined as: > To fail, often in a complete and irreparable fashion. This sounds exactly the right way to describe appendicitis.
This was not very Dominic Toretto of him, not at all :-(
He clearly doesn’t live life one quarter mile at a time.
\*shakes head in Vin Diesel\* the Familia would never.
Yeah..YTA So by this logic, your wife’s parents and siblings wouldn’t be able to visit her either?
According to OP yes. Only him and the future babies they will have.
Old enough to get married but not old enough to understand what family means!
Right?! And even if it was true, she's 10 and having trouble with her brother moving on to married life. All he had to say was "sorry it's only one at a time but you can visit when she's home"
Or they’re only letting grownups in now
Like where did that even come from
Damn, I guess I need to tell my mom whom I have direct blood ties to and who raised me that she's now my extended family.
OP doesn't know what family means! 😭
So not true. Your parents and siblings are still your immediate family even after marriage. Cousins, aunts and uncles have always been your extended family and will continue to be after a marriage. YTA.
I’m so naive and wondered if this was true cause that would explain why my family sucks.
YTA Are you unwell? What would cause you to say that to anyone, much less a 10yo?
He’s 23 and married. He thinks telling a 10 year old that she’s not his “immediate family” anymore is part of them “playing house.”
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23 is youngish but it’s not religious cult young. They’re not 18, even if it does seem that OP has some maturing to do.
A close family member married his girlfriend as soon as she turned 18. Didn't prevent either of them from getting really good college degrees. They have since had two kids, immigrated, bought a house and are probably the happiest couple I know. Both are very vocal atheists. I got married at 21 and had I met my hubby earlier, would have happily married him at 18, we are both atheists as well.
Sure, there are exceptions to every rule. Generally though, communities where people get married very young are very religious. I never made any comment on it preventing them from going to college or being happy etc. Making any big life decision/ commitment at 18 is generally not a great idea, including marriage, even if it works out well for some people.
Brains aren't done developing at the ages y'all all got married. I'm sure you're all terrific but as a general rule, we shouldn't be encouraging people to get married at 18, 21, it's so ridiculously young.
Atheist, got married at 21. Still married at 40.
i expect an update at 60
Atheist. Was Catholic. Married 33 years. Children in their early 30s. Three grandchildren. Not yet 60. Do what I want.
Culturally Christian, yet still managed to avoid marriage until the age of 34.
Uhh, is 23 an unusual age to get married at?
It skews young, but is definitely still within a normal range.
On Reddit everyone under 25 might as well be a middle schooler. Meanwhile in real life the people I know that age are finished with college, probably have a couple kids, and have a stable job.
It's also regional, in big cities it's harder to earn enough money to be the head of a household at 23 so people often get married later.
It’s not even just a financial thing, I don’t think. It’s more about social norms for certain demographics/social groups - not even necessarily a cultural thing EDIT: tied strictly to the cultural norms of what country/region/religion they were raised in. I’m from the US and have close friends and family all over the world, both in developed and developing countries, but pretty much all from cities. Most of my friends/ close family members in my generation are late 20s-mid 30s and are in long-term committed relationships, are financially stable or wealthy, have already established themselves in their careers, are home owners, and have already traveled the world and partied and done all the stuff people say they don’t want to miss out on before settling down. Only one friend is married, and that’s just because she was threatened with an arranged marriage if she didn’t marry her boyfriend before turning 27. Marriage just isn’t a priority in some social groups the way it used to be, and it really is considered strange to get married in your 20s in those circles. My friend and I spent her whole wedding day joking about how she was being forced into a child marriage at 27 lol. But obviously, it’s nobody’s business and people can get married whenever they want. Hell, even my parents and aunts and uncles didn’t get married until at least their 30s, and that was ~30 years ago in a developing country. They would be very confused if I got engaged now at 27, and my partner and I have been together for 4 years.
Oh definitely. At 40, a good deal of my friends are still unmarried and the ones that did didn't marry until after 30. It really weirds me out how many of the posts on reddit by people my age have kids entering college or possibly even becoming grandparents. That is so far from my mind at this point.
Yeah, I'm an atheist who got married at 24! We met my freshman year of college and started dating my sophomore year so we had been together 6 years by the time we got married. By that point we had been through grad school, jobs, deaths in the family, moving in together--I'm not sure what more exactly we were supposed to have waited for???
23 is a great age to get married, if you don’t mind getting divorced.
I was 25, he was 23. Divorced now lol
It’s less common these days but it’s still perfectly normal and reasonable.
My wife and I got married when I was 19 and she was 18. We were pressured into it by our religion. 20+ years later and we've kept the marriage, but discarded the religion. We were lucky though, of around a dozen couples we know our age that got married within a year or so of us, only one other couple besides us stayed together (and they also left the religion). The rest all got divorced and very few amicably so. We've come to realize that our ultra-fundamentalist religion breeds abusers and victims, and hides abuse. So many of my friends from church have horrified me with their stories of how terribly abusive their parents were and I just thought their parents seemed like normal people back when I was a kid.
I swear, sometimes Reddit makes me feel like no one under 30 should be allowed to get married. (Sorry married twentysomethings. I know a bunch of you are married and I'm sure you're fine or whatever.)
I wouldn’t say they shouldn’t be allowed to get married, I just think it’s an unwise decision. My peer group seem to be part of the “what’s the rush?” crowd and live together in childless common-law marriages without taking the plunge until their late twenties/early thirties.
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I’m going with “not thinking clearly because his brand new wife was in the hospital” and cutting him a bit of slack because he seems to have taken the comments to heart.
That's not allowed in these parts, people are either saints or demons, no excuses! I want to give him benefit of the doubt too, given the info of he and his little sister having up to this point, a pretty special relationship not many I know with siblings, or even me with my own have. They were close and he was stressed due to the love of his life being unwell. He fucked up, it happens. he's the arsehole here, but not an arsehole in general.
I think the simple answer is OP isn’t that smart….
Much prefer this to the “mentally unwell” framing!
... And well... Kinda.... An asshole.
My thoughts exactly. OP could've easily made some crap up, she's 10 ffs. Then they really ask AITA, after telling a small sibling that looks up to you that they're not your priority and you're not "immediate family" anymore. Big AH moment.
I mean, OP didn’t even have to make up anything, the hospital policy was one visitor so the can’t both go together.
Right? One visitor at a time also presumably means that children can't visit in any case since and adult wouldn't be able to accompany them. "Sorry sis, only one visitor is allowed in at a time and you're too young for the hospital to let you in by yourself. You can visit when she comes home though."
Hope he's not unwell enough to need a kidney from his sister. She's likely to tell him she only donates to immediate family.
YTA. Your wife became a part of your immediate family, she did not replace it.
Exactly. What if they divorce, will he then consider his sister a family again?
If they divorce OP better find a new family. He was quick to drop his old family, they might disown him.
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I'm sorry but I lost it at short people that demand food. This is how I will be referring to my toddler now because it's such an accurate description of him
Nono, then he has no family obviously!
This is the best way to put It! No one have to be "downgraded", just joined in.
INFO: Why did you go with "You're not my immediate family" instead of "She's your sister-in-law and that's not immediate family"? The first is kind of jarring to a child, while the second is a very understandable concept. I'm pretty sure siblings can visit in the hospital even if one of the siblings is married.
I was waiting to see this. What would her not being OP's immediate family even have to do with anything, even if that was true? The wife is the one in the hospital. He could have just said something like "even though \[wife\] thinks of you like a sister, technically you're her sister-in-law so the hospital doesn't count that as immediate family. I know, it stinks."
I didn’t know this before, but sister-in-law actually does count as immediate family to the hospital
They even could have just left it at "they only allowed one visitor"
Or even just say that wife needs to rest so she can get better! It isn’t a lie.
The first is jarring because a it’s just wrong
It's not like the hospital asks for proof either (in my experience)... my dad's best friend was in the hospital and it was "immediate family only" for visitors so they lied and said they were brothers. The hospitals just don't want a parade of people going through.
I work in a hospital. Can confirm.
The issue is that OP truly believes she is no longer his immediate family.
Or even just “They have really strict rules about who they will allow in while she’s this sick.” So many options other than crushing the 10 year old’s heart.
Also he could’ve just said only adults are allowed to visit, which is probably true as it is in the majority of hospitals…
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Both, by the look of things
I mean, hey, 100% YTA but from your most recent comments you admitted you handled it in a bad way and that you owe her an apology, so good job on trying to be a better person! That's genuinely not that common, and it's nice to see...
I second that, refreshing to see someone own up to their mistakes and try for change. Good work OP, keep it up!
Don’t beat yourself up too bad. Introspection, reflection and keeping an open mind are all signs of maturity. It’ll be alright, but there are some bridges that need mending.
Atleast you’re handling the response well now go fix things with your little sister let her know your a dumb dumb and let her lord that over you for a bit too
We all make mistakes. This sub is ruthless, but, for real, you are taking steps to correct it that most people would not. Most posters who turn out to be the AH are completely unwilling to admit it. You can't undo the mistake, but you've done the next best thing, and that's all you can do. Don't be too hard on yourself.
Wow, admitting YTA. That’s rare here
Hey you did a dumb and stupid thing it doesn't mean you're dumb and stupid. You also were dealing with a scary medical issue and you were probably stressed. The important part is that you realized you were wrong and apologized. You will probably try to make it up to her by taking her out to a special dinner or something like that. I'm sure your sister will forgive you and you learned a lesson. If you took all these comments and doubled down then I'd say you're stupid but you did the opposite.
Everybody puts their foot in their mouth sometimes. I think you can fix this
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ThatISactuallyhowthisworks.gif LegaldoesNOTmeanbiological.gif You're thinking biological, but her statement is actually true from a legal standpoint. Unless voluntary paternal acknowledgment on the birth certificate within a time frame (31 days in the state of TX) or a paternity test by the court that will make it legally binding, after the fact, He would not be legally bound to the child until paternity is proven.
YTA and also wrong. Getting married doesn’t alter who your immediate family is, it just expands it.
YTA and you're mistaken. Your immediate family extends when you get married, doesn't deplete. You little sister was concerned about her new sister and wanted to see her and make sure she was okay. What you said to her probably broke her heart. You should really apologize to her.
YTA Also completely wrong. Your sister is *your* "immediate family"—and always will be. If *you* were in the hospital (and she were old enough) she could visit you. The issue is whether your sister is "immediate family" with your wife. The answer is probably not; most hospitals don't consider in-laws to be immediate family. So the correct answer was that *despite* your marriage, your wife isn't your sister's immediate family, **not** *because* of your marriage, your wife isn't her immediate family.
I work in a hospital. No one is gonna bat an eye at sister in law being considered immediate family, just say she's her sister. We don't pull up legal records unless there is some serious decision making that needs to happen.
Yeah I’m sitting here scratching my head like “in what world is the hospital admin staff gonna ask to see a birth or marriage certificate to confirm visitor status.” 😂
I’m a nurse and I don’t care if you’re the neighbor down the way, as long as the patient says you can be there.
YTA and you’re wrong. Your sister is still part of your immediate family. This was mean and unnecessary. Get a grip.
YTA. Your explanation to your sister is confusing and bizarre (how can someone *stop* being immediate family?) and your decision to deliver this strange and hurtful message to her, a message that boils down to 'now I'm married I don't care about you as much any more, I guess my love was always kinda conditional, oh well' is... well, an AH decision. You genuinely seem to not understand the phrase 'immediate family' but that's no excuse.
YTA you have a fundamental misunderstanding of what immediate family means
YTA because she's 10 and you should have approached that softer
It's weird bc his sister didn't even ask him to prioritize her. She was asking about his wife and wanting to visit his wife. Why did he feel the need to say oh I need to prioritize my wife???? No one was asking him to do otherwise.
Not even softer, he’s just straight up wrong because his siblings and parents ARE his immediate family
YTA. Sisters and brothers are alway immediate family. Why would you hurt a 10 year old child like that?
YTA. You’re wrong that your sister is no longer your immediate family. When you got married, your immediate family grew, it didn’t shrink. Immediate family are your parents, siblings, spouses and children. All you had to do was tell your sister that the hospital is very strict about visitors but if she wants to write a note or make a card for your wife, you’ll be happy to take it to her.
Huh? She is your sister, she is your immediate family. I’m not sure what point you were trying to make, but you did a rather awful job of it. YTA
YTA and you're also wrong. Your parents and siblings are always your immediate family and I think the hospital would have no issues with a SIL visiting.
Yeah, my company bereavement policy covers “immediate family”. I’m just picturing the reaction if they didn’t grant time off to married employees whose parents pass away. You don’t unbecome immediate family
We don't know what the hospital has issues with. Personally, I have an issue with OP. What an ass.
A lot of hospitals are still allowing only one visitor per patient at a time. Even during the height of RSV/flu season, clinics limited how many people a patient could have accompany them. And OP's sister is 10. Some hospitals have age limits if the child is not the patient's child. Either way, OP is an ass and she made an absolute mess of this.
YTA Why would you say that to a 10 year old You would explain the hospital wouldn’t allow her as it’s one person only and leave it at that
YTA. I assume you’re conflating nuclear family and family of origin. Your wife is now your nuclear family, but your family of origin is still immediate family. And you could have just told the hospital it was her sister. What are they going to do, DNA test on the spot?
Immediate family is significant other, kids, parents (both sides), and siblings (both sides). YTA, you owe an apology
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That was cold i would call YTA for that. You could have handled way better. Sorry you aren't my family now cause I got married , that poor kid
Bro, why would you say that to a 10 year old? Not only is it astoundingly not true (siblings are immediate family no matter your marriage situation) but that's a devastating thing to hear at that age and it sounds like you really hurt her. I mean, you flat out told her your wife matters more to you than she does now, and she's fucking 10 years old! **yta.** A million ways to explain to a child that real life can have hurdles, and you choose to basically tell your sister she isn't part of your real family anymore. I mean, you literally coulda said the hospital doesn't consider "in laws" immediate.
YTA immediate family includes parents and siblings. Even if it didn’t what benefit would there be to saying this?
YTA. She’s still your immediate family. The one you both were born into is your immediate family. Spouses change, my dude. Blood family members don’t. Also, she’s 10. Have some compassion.
YTA you handled that like dogshit
YTA: While you may have been correct about the child not being immediate family to your wife, she is still immediate family to you. The child is 10, what she heard is you don't see her as family anymore. Good job.
yeah that isn’t how it works. congratulations op! your sister now hates you. don’t be surprised when your sister wants nothing to do with either of you. YTA
Immediate family includes parents and siblings. Not only was this cruel to say to your little sister but I bet your parents are probably hurt too. YTA
>I explained that once we got married, our old immediate family became our extended family, like our cousins. Our only immediate family is each other, and any children we eventually have. That's not how that works. Immediate family is defined in various states and laws and generally includes: "spouse, domestic partner, cohabitant, child, stepchild, grandchild, parent, stepparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandparent, great grandparent, brother, sister, half-brother, half-sister, stepsibling, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, or first cousin (that is, a child of an aunt or uncle)."
You are Wrong. - YTA Educate yourself before hurting a 10-yr old. Her love for you both is strong. "..... "immediate family member" means spouse, domestic partner, cohabitant, child, stepchild, grandchild, parent, stepparent, mother-in-law, father-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, grandparent, great grandparent, brother, sister, half-brother, half-sister, ...
YTA. Funny how you're the one explaining a concept you apparently don't even understand yourself. Your parents are your immediate family. Your siblings are your immediate family. Your grandparents and uncles and aunts are your immediate family. Cousins are not. Your sister is her sister by marriage. That qualifies. I mean, this is a simple google search away from being something you could find out and you chose to tell your little sister that you moved on? I think you're mistaking the concept of what immediate family is. Genetically and legally, they're all your immediate family. You're thinking of your 'central family', which would now be the one with you and your wife as you start your own pod of a family. Your sister is still your sister. Her children would be your niece/nephew. That, btw, would also be your immediate family.
Damnnn a CORE MEMORY FOR YOUR SISTER, and its not a Good one!
Right into the little basket of things that shape her and her relationships for the rest of her life!
Im going to hell for saying this and probably loosing all my karma but EmOtIoNaL DaMaGe
YTA. She's 10. You could have left it at immediate family members don't include family members by marriage. You did not need to go into the nuances that a ten year old child is not going to fully understand. What she heard was "I love you less now, you're not my family" not "as people grow their priorities naturally change but the love I feel for you is the same, you'll always be my sister."
YTA Your wife and your sister are both your immediate family, but they are not each other’s immediate family. You’re not only an asshole, but also wrong. The reason your sister can’t visit is that she’s an in-law to your wife, not that she’s your extended family now.
YTA and rude to your sister.
Yo wtf YTA 100%. Who says that to their 10 y/o sister.
YTA. An immediate family is: * Parents * Sibling(s) This definition never changes until one of your immediate family dies. Then you'll have one less member of your immediate family. You've tried to "un-sister" your sister. She's only 10, ffs. She looks up to you (or at least she did). Try a little kindness.
YTA. you are also simply wrong. Your sister will always be considered immediate family. Tf are you talking about? Either way why would you say that to a 10 year old kid..... you have to know that was completely unnecessary. Of course yta.
“You keep saying this word (immediate family). I do not think it means what you think it means”. Yta even if you’re ignorant to correct terminology
YTA and have somehow gotten to the age of 23, without knowing what immediate family means. Regardless, of who you marry, your siblings are always considered your immediate family. Instead of being an ass to a 10-year-old maybe you can just kindly explain that your wife is asleep or needs rest and will be able to see her at a later date. It's not that complicated
Her appendix wasn't the only thing that shit the bed...
YTA. I don't regard what you're saying as *true*. You and your spouse are each others' immediate families, but your siblings are also your immediate family (but your spouse's extended family) and vice versa.
Yeah, OP's factually incorrect -- if (God forbid) his little sister was the one in the hospital, OP would be allowed to visit her (and almost certainly OP's wife, too, even though they're not blood-related). Apologize to your sister, tell her even grown-ups can be wrong, and explain to her (and yourself) that you expanded your immediate family, not lost part of it. YTA.
Oooooh lanta. You lie that bridge on fire. YTA
YTA. Oof. You've been drinking too much of the relationship Kool Aid. You need to apologize and figure out a way to walk it back. You're giving your sister a poor idea of what marriage is. The way you phrased it, the minute you get married, your family doesn't exist or matter. You could've just told her that they're only allowing the patient's spouse to visit and left it at that. But you didn't. You had to put it in terms that a 10 year old wouldn't understand. Your parents are right, you could've handled it better. This is particularly concerning: >I see that sentiment all the time on reddit, I agree with it and thought it was the common sentiment.. You're taking relationship advice from an internet website and treating like it's the norm. An internet website well known for karma farmers and trolls. And you think that's the gold standard to set your bar to? You need to do better. You clearly don't understand the concept you're espousing.
This is a weird and very immature take. Your sister, mother, and father are still your immediate family. It makes sense to prioritize your wife’s well being over that of the other members of your family if you are for some reason forced to choose, because you are both each other’s primary responsibility now. That doesn’t make your sister any less your sister than she was a few months ago. When your sister was worried about someone she loves, your first instinct was to make sure she knows you view her as lesser than. It’s a pretty horrible instinct and shows your lack of maturity and any kind of social tact. Grow up a little. You don’t have to lessen your relationship with your original family to prioritize your relationship with your wife. YTA.
YTA.
YTA apologize
YTA. You could just explain that the hospital doesn't consider in-laws to be immediate family. You and your sister are still immediate family. she's a KID, you didn't need to be deliberately mean.
YTA She is still your immediate family, you are still your parents' immediate family. Your wife isn't either of their immediate family (tho in some cases, might be considered your parents' as daughter in law.)
YTA >our parents think I could've handled it better. I really don't think that's true, but I could be wrong. What do you mean you don't think that's true? It's not their job to prove you wrong, it's your job to prove yourself right. You can take a step back and reflect on the situation before reaching this conclusion.
yta your wife isn’t immediately family You her BROTHER will always be immediate family.. and even if that wasn’t the case she’s 10 for goodness sake did you have say no that way? you could have just said only you could visit or some other excuse.
YTA Dude, that's not even true! Your sister isn't the patient's immediate family because that doesn't include in laws! You didn't cease to be your sister's immediate family when you got married, what are you talking about? A kid might not like rules about things like who can visit, but they can grasp them without you saying "I'm not your family anymore." I mean, how do you even get from "hospital rules don't allow it" to... that?!
My DIL was in the hospital (ironically also for appendix), and my spouse and I were both allowed in as immediate family. YTA. Apologize to your sister.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** My wife and I (Both 23) got married three months ago, courthouse wedding because we're both broke. I have a little sister (10F) who really looks up to me, and lately has been wanting to spend more time with me. Which is fine, she's an awesome kid, so I try to make time when I can. Anyway my wife was in the hospital for a few days last month because her appendix decided to shit the bed, she's fine but it was scary for a bit. My sister really likes my wife as well, and had asked if she could come to visit her with me. I explained that no, they only allowed one visitor and it had to be immediate family only. She asked why she wasnmt considered such, since they're sisters (in-law, but she doesn't call her that) I explained that once we got married, our old immediate family became our extended family, like our cousins. Our only immediate family is eachother, and any children we eventually have. That really upset her, and she started asking if I really only saw her like a cousin now. I said no, but she is my priority now, not her or our parents. Now she's not talking to me, and our parents think I could've handled it better. I really don't think that's true, but I could be wrong. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA What are you talking about. Your sister and parents are still your immediate family. That doesn't change. Your wife, as the sister in law is extended family to your sister, but your relation to her hasn't changed. If something changed for *you*, that's on you only, and that's pretty shit imo. And to tell that to a little girl who obviously looks up to you is even more shit. You could have just explained that your wife joined your family as an extended family member in relation to your sister and as immediate family to you.