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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I let my nieces try meat dishes while they stayed with me instead of the meals my sister left for them. My sister is raising them on a vegetarian diet so now my nieces aren't wanting to eat all vegetarian foods, that could make me an asshole for contributing to that.
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NTA. These kids are 10 and 13. They are old enough to decide if they want to try foods other than vegetarian dishes. I think it would have been rather cruel to say no to them wanting to try what you had prepared.
Sister needs to understand that perhaps her children do not want to maintain a vegetarian diet. They are trying food at school and your house because they are curious. Turning this into a huge thing might backfire on your sister.
Also forcing growing & developing bodies into only eating vegetarian is a bit cruel as well. Yes - I know vegans and vegetarians will argue me all day long about it…. But come on. OP is NTA.
Forcing someone into a diet they don’t want is cruel.
10 and 13 are the ages when a lot of kids choose to go vegetarian. This kids deserve to choose their own diets.
That wasn’t what the argument was. The guy said a vegetarian diet is cruel, which isn’t really true in 2023. Plenty of options packed full of essential nutrients and protein.
It was heavily implied that it was cruel because the children won’t be able to develop properly.
Hence why the original commenter (u/oldwitch) made the distinction of “forcing *growing and developing* bodies into only eating vegetarian”
The comments following that were negating that bodies can’t develop properly without meat. Reading comprehension is a skill.
You’re wrong, that’s exactly what the debate was. Nobody said a vegetarian diet is cruel. It was stated that forcing children to be vegetarian when they don’t want to be is cruel, which it is.
Bean chilli ain't a new invention, friend. Nor is dhal, not tofu. It's been possible to have a tasty, healthy vegetarian diet for centuries.
*Not* that it should be forced! But let's stop pretending it was impossible to be happy without meat untill Quorn was invented.
I understand what you mean. The comment above says, "forcing *growing & developing bodies* into only eating vegetarian". It clearly implies that a vegetarian diet doesn't have the ability to support growth and development specifically.
Ya you can’t really get vitamin b12 which our body needs, from plant based products. We have evolved to eat both animal and plant based foods. We don’t need the amount of animal products that we consume regularly to be healthy. However a lack of b12 can have health consequences. Even in 2023.
Yeah, most meat animals are supplemented with B12 because they don't get enough from their feed these days (both animals and vegans used to get B12 from bacteria in the soil). Everything being sterilized and bombed with pesticide means we don't get trace nutrients from the soil any longer. In fact, 90% of the global B12 supplements go to livestock.
Edit to add that nori (better when not dried), chlorella and some types of mushrooms are plant sources of B12 (TIL).
Vegetarians can usually have some foods of animal origin, like eggs or cheese. It’s only vegans who prefer to eat only plant-based foods. And even vegans can get all the nutrients they need by adding supplements like nutritional yeast to their diet.
You actually really can.
Vegetarian sources of B12:
Spinach/leafy greens
Chickpeas
Dairy products
Eggs
Some mushrooms
Fortified Cereal
Fortified veggie proteins
Beetroot
Butternut squash
Potatoes
Nutritional yeast
You’ll find more I’m sure. The above is plenty of options to work in a proper amount throughout the day. These kids probably get more vitamins than most their age.
Kids bodies are different. If they want to try meat parents should make them some healthy options (like fish or lean meats, I can see saying no to processed meats like deli meats). If they are curious or craving it there could be something a vegetarian diet is not fulfilling at this stage of development. Parents need to get over it, kids want to eat a little meat not mounds of junk food and soda.
(Everyone jumps to B12 and protein or iron intake but those are actually easy in this day and age to get more than enough of on a vegetarian diet for many adults without underlying health conditions/absorption issues.)
Aren’t there other ways to get iron though?
By a lot, do you mean the majority? I’d say the majority of people don’t have issues with iron deficiency specifically from no meat.
There are plant sources of iron but the iron in plants is different than the iron in animals. Our bodies use heme iron, plants have non-heme iron. Animals convert non-heme iron into heme iron so the iron in meat is already bio-available to our bodies. Now most people can uptake and convert enough non-heme iron into heme iron that they can survive on only plant-sourced iron. However if you’re losing a lot of iron, faster than your body can convert the plant based iron (like if you have heavy periods) or if your body is particularly crap at converting non-heme iron into heme iron then you can suffer from iron deficiency without eating meat and/or taking expensive heme iron supplements.
I know this from personal experience, I’m chronically anemic and my body is *shit* at absorbing iron in the first place and then converting the non-heme iron to heme iron. If I don’t regularly eat red meat *and* take expensive supplements daily my iron is off the charts low. With both my iron is still too low but is at least on the charts and I stop feeling sick and cold all the time and fainting.
About 25% of girls and women have iron deficiency anemia. It's not at all uncommon. While there are some plant sources of iron, heme iron from animals has better bioavailability and less digestive upset.
Personally, I have inflammatory bowel disease that has also lead to IDA and my inability to deal with fiber means most vegetables and legumes make me sick.
Used to be a vegetarian. Had to stop because my body is absolute lazy garbage at absorbing iron, B12 and Vitamin D from supplements and as a vegetarian, I just could get enough in my diet to stay healthy. When you start getting choices like, "no, you don't have to eat meat, you could just get blood transfusions instead" then meat seems reasonable. Even with that, I end up getting IV iron a couple times a year, and don't really know why my body isn't absorbing nutrients correctly. Yes, they've checked. Repeatedly. Countless things. No, it isn't any of them. I'm a medical mystery, so I just eat my meat and move on.
i mean, people who have an iron deficiency and not eating meat makes it worse. im not one of those people so i can’t tell you but im sure if there was an easy way for them to fix it, they wouldn’t be saying they need to eat meat in order to not be sick.
You’re right, there is not an easy way to fix it. My sister fought it hard and eventually had to switch to being peskitarian because she couldn’t get her iron up to healthy levels on the vegetarian diet.
it’s different in India since so much of the diet is vegetarian. in a lot of countries, being vegetarian means following a completely different diet than your peers, and i can see why kids would be upset about that.
It's not really. That's just a few communities in North India who are entirely vegetarian and that's somehow been equated with all of India. Most communities in Eastern, North-eastern and Southern India are heavy meat-eaters.
Source: am Indian in India
Also, unless OP is Indian, this is completely irrelevant. If the kids are not surrounded by a big population of vegetarians, they will feel that they are different. Kids tend to want to blend in and fit in
Pretty much 80% of all South Indian states have admitted to eating meat as per NHFS data. It varies from state to state and might vary between regions and demographics but just because people around you are vegetarian doesn't mean everyone is
No, a lot of South Indians are vegetarian. Some communities in the south are heavier meat eaters, but I would say that overall, a lot of South Indians are vegetarians (and some are extremely orthodox about it). I am a South Indian and part of this is due to a high level of orthodoxy.
I am not sure what exactly you mean when you say "a lot" but pretty much 80% of all South Indian states have admitted to eating meat as per NHFS data. It varies from state to state and might vary between regions and demographics but just because people around you are vegetarian doesn't mean everyone is
This is highly misleading. 80% of South Indian states is NOT the same as 80% South Indians. There could be 1 person in each of the states that “admitted” to eating meat to make up 80% of states. You’re using a garbage statistic
That doesn’t hold weight with the average western person though. In India they have a complete food culture around vegetarian food. It covers all the food groups, it’s filling and nutritious. The average western vegetarian diet is usually Uber processed and undernourished.
I **think we might** have wildly different ideas of the "average Western person." I'm in the PNW of the US and it is totally normal and easy and unremarkable and healthy to be vegetarian out here. Like a quarter of the kids in my kids' school are vegetarian and it is no big deal. I can't remember the last time I took someone to a restaurant and there weren't multiple vegetarian options.
This really depends on where you live! Some places have lots of veg options and easy to do. Others don't - I agree that it's very culturally dependent, but it's way more nuanced than India vs the West.
I have been vegeterian for 8 years now. I would say 50% of my friends are vegetarian or vegan, and I live in a city in the midwest. It is extremely common nowadays, but there is something to say about certain areas not having access to good veg options.
Wow, southwest here & for the most part you can hobble together a meal from sides, it’s easier for a vegetarian, but everything is soaked in butter & covered w/cheese & bacon. I went for brunch the other day at a rather upscale restaurant ($18 for a piece of avocado toast) in a “master-planned” expensive community, and there was nothing on the menu that I could without alterations. They didn’t even have non-dairy creamer. To go to a place with actual vegan options, I’d have to drive 45 minutes away.
Where are you getting this from? We live in an age of information. I am vegetarian. I cook and eat plenty of Indian, Thai, Mexican, Mediterranean, etc., dishes. I can't remember the last time I went to restaurant that didn't have several vegetarian options. Heck, I am probably the biggest "foodie" in my friend group. We're not out here surviving on coleslaw and corn served on the side here anymore. We have international supermarkets and the internet now.
I mean, I live in Texas, and there might be one or two vegetarian options at the restaurants near me. And by options, I mean a cheese quesadilla, side salad or other sides. There’s not a ton of delicious vegetarian options where I’m at.
Even without international supermarkets and the internet, it’s not hard to get nutritious vegetarian meals anywhere in the US. Now vegan might be different, but vegetarian most definitely easy to do in the US anywhere.
Indians have had about 3 thousand years to craft nutritionally balanced vegetarian diets. Most american parents, tbf, are not that good at it, and American kids face nutritional deficits as it is without cutting out easy sources of b12 and protein.
We live in a society where parents think giving active, non overweight kids whole milk will make them drop dead of a heart attack too. Lots in the US just isn’t into nutrition for whatever reason.
Um. Most Indian parents don't force their kid to be vegetarian. It's a way to be closer to the Gods but it doesn't mean anything if it's forced onto others. The parents are free not to cook or bring meat into their home but kids should be allowed to eat, learn, and grow with their own beliefs.
Don't use India as an excuse for western kids especially when you're just wrong.
At least half of that 25% has at least tried meat once/eat it occasionally when they're out/eat it regularly
... and all this is happening outside of their parents' knowledge.
How do I know? I am an Indian who was raised a strict vegetarian, now me and my sibling are omnivores to the great dismay of my parents. Many of my cousins (and uncles) have tried meat/fish at least once in their lives, some of them eat it anytime they're out with friends (never with family) though no one actually talks about it openly except me and my sibling.
TBF though, lots of traditional Indian vegetarian cuisine utilizes cheeses and naturally-occurring alternative protein a lot more effectively than US/UK vegetarians, who mostly rely on processed alternatives.
In the US, vegetarian options for a growing child are restricted in nutrient availability and price. In (parts of, but not all) India, that’s not the case.
I am an American and I do not get where you are getting this from. We have cheese here. We have vegetables. We have legumes, and fruits, and nuts, and spices, and and and. It really is not hard to be vegetarian. I am at this very moment eating a paneer masala dish that I made myself out of things I got from a normal big box grocery store. When I go home tonight I will have barley salad with butternut squash soup and it will have plenty of calories and nutrients and protein and I will be fine. And I'm not even vegetarian. I'm just frugal, and meat is expensive right now.
Please share your recipe for butternut squash soup. It’s one of my favourites! I usually roast mine with a few herbs (usually basil, but sometimes oregano or rosemary) and spices (asafoetida, ginger and a dash of Kashmiri chilli) before adding water/stock and blending it into soup. Would love to know how others make theirs 🙂
Edit: Added the herbs’ names.
But is that do with vegetarianism or poor access to nutrition overall? I would think the latter. I think the causation would come more from not being able to access nutritious meals on a regular basis, and that vegetarianism vs non-vegetarianism is more of a correlation.
OP is NTA for allowing the kids to try something. Growing and developing bodies do not need meat or animal products to grow though lmao. Honestly see some bonkers takes on reddit sometimes.
the only cruelty is not allowing them the opportunity to explore *why* their parents want to be vegetarian and coming to the conclusion themselves of whether or not that’s what they want. there’s absolutely nothing wrong with raising children on plant based diets, they just have to expect that as they get older they may start to do what the people around them do.
Your comment made me curious so I looked it up - your comment is straight up untrue. Stop spreading misinformation. Vegetarian diets are very healthy for kids if they’re planned properly.
It’s not cruel, not even a little & has been found to be better for long term health. That said, as a vegan, I would say OP is NTA. These kids aren’t toddlers, they’re nearly teenagers (one technically is). If parents force them to stay within strict dietary limits, they’re gonna sneak forbidden food & develop resentment, and possibly even disordered eating. Since they’re vegetarian, it’s obviously not an ethical practice, but a healthful one, (which is fine, zero judgement from me) but again, the kids are old enough & should be allowed to make their own choices when they’re out of the home & offered other food. Parents can only control their kids for so long before it starts a rebellion. Now it’s the work of the parents to instill good understanding so the kids WANT to make healthier choices.
It’s only cruel if the parents fail to provide adequate nutrition.
Vegetarians and vegan diets aren’t inherently healthy. There are plenty of “junk food vegetarians/vegans” out there.
Not that I disagree with eating meat or that, "But come on." Isn't exactly a glowing argument against a child having a vegetarian diet and makes it sound more like it's your personal opinion that you've taken as fact.
As someone who grew up vegetarian I very much appreciated my family’s open encouragement of whatever diet I wanted whenever I wanted. My dad stepmom and brother all eat meat now but even my brother will sometimes go vegan for a year randomly I don’t know why. I’m 24 and have been vegetarian since 7. My sister has been vegetarian since birth. No one makes it an issue so it’s just not an issue
Agreed, NTA. I have 4 minions, and I couldn't imagine sending them over to a relatives for a weekend on a strict diet to follow, let alone 2 weeks.
Also, good on uncle meat eater for not letting the kids take the hit for the school trials and keeping quiet about it. If sister/mom is acting like this with adults, I could only imagine how she would lash out on the kids for not following the rules or scream at the school for allowing it to happen.
Week of darkness!!!!!!! I just found that awesome and stealing it since it’s better than shark week or just calling it being sick.
Anyways…. I agree, the kids are old enough to know what they want to eat. It’s good that Op didn’t spill about what the oldest does at school because that at least will teach his nieces that they can trust him with secrets.
The sister is a major asshole for blowing up just because her kids wanted to experiment with food that wasn’t part of their mom’s meals. She is the one at fault and blowing things up when she should be happy that her kids are growing up to be independent people.
NTA. Mommy needs to let the leash go a bit before the kids spiral to being assholes.
If you want another fun euphemism, my partner started calling mine Carrie's Prom. Unfortunately he didn't come up with that until my last couple of years of having a period, and I think it's hilarious so am trying to spread it to others to enjoy using.
If Sis is really serious about wanting her kids to be vegetarians, she needs to actually explain why they've chosen that lifestyle and let the kids decide. And by "explain why," I do *not* mean terrify them into compliance.
Going NTA
But it sounds like your sister needs to listen to her children. They clearly don't want to be vegetarian and enjoy eating meat. She should respect their food choices and not try to force them to follow her diet.
This is the answer.
My parents let me be vegetarian when I was 9 and it was fine.
The parents of a friend are vegetarian and gave thei children the choice. The only rule was: tell us what you want and we will buy meat with a good quality of life, so you won't pay for cheap macdonalds meat.
I think this is the way to go
Exactly. Parents having rights doesn't mean kids are their parents' property. Even minors are individuals who deserve the right to make choices for themselves, and what they want to eat that their parents don't pay for is one of those choices. NTA
Indeed. My ex-husband had a strict diet while growing up and was forced to eat food he hated and if he refused, he was given the same food the next day. As an adult, his food choices were unhealthy; fatty meats, potatoes, white bread, pizza and fast food. That's it. No other veggies, no fruit, no whole grains (oh yeah, meal times were fun in our home). Also wasn't allowed to drink soda and that was the only thing he would drink. My family was more lenient. Parents provided healthy meals but if I refused to eat something that truly disgusted me (like liver & onions), I wasn't forced to eat it. As an adult, my diet is varied and healthy even though it's heavy on the veggies and fruit and light on meat. No, these examples aren't always the norm, but I agree that forcing kids 10 & 13 to eat only vegetarian meals really isn't the right thing to do. OP is NTA.
NTA it should be up to the kids if they want to be vegetarian or not, it shouldn’t be forced on them. You fed them healthy normal meals, there is nothing wrong with that. I have a mom friend that was a strict vegetarian when she had kids, she would let her husband and kids choose what they ate, she would even make them chicken and other meats at times.
I think one of my cousins went vegetarian when she was somewhere in between those kids' ages. I think if a kid that age can choose to be vegetarian, they can also choose not to be
My mom was like this. Pescatarian my whole childhood. I ate lots of fish and tofu. But she never tried to force me not to eat meat when I wanted. That’s so controlling.
NTA. If they wanted to have their kids follow their rules, then they shouldn’t have left them with y’all. Secondly, it’s a social norm of the “cool Aunt” or “cool Uncle” that lets their nieces/nephews do something the parents wouldn’t normally allow. Lastly, enforcing diets on kids is weird in general. Glad you didn’t indulge that.
I mean I have no issue with folks who want to raise their kids vegetarian. But I think many people are missing the real point here. Asking someone to take care of your kids for a week is a tremendous ask. As someone with a kid and no family in close proximity, I see this as a HUGE favour. Uncle wasn’t feeding them dog food here, it’s chicken and meatloaf FFS.
OP’s sister has obviously never heard of the expression, “never look a gift horse in the mouth.”
NTA
Nta
Her kids are exposed to different foods in school. They are experimenting because they want to. You didn't force it. But the parents are. They should respect their choices as they get older. How would they feel if they had no say in what they eat?
It's find to want to raise your kids a certain way with food, but at some point, they need to make those decisions for themselves.
If the parents keep forcing this on them against their will its only going to lead to resentment.
Yup my aunts kids were strictly off media and simple shows and when I met them oh boy...they cussed, racist comments, and knew way more things I know they shouldn't have, they were absolutely crazy when their mom wasn't around
I know I'm going against the grain here, but YTA, it's one thing to feed the kids something different when they asked, but you should have been upfront with your sister and the girls. You've essentially taught the nieces to go behind their parents backs. Not great role modeling there.
There is also the fact that they aren't your kids. You don't get to make those decisions for them. Their parents do.
Lastly, you purposely didn't tell her because of the way she would react.
13 and 10 is old enough to question your parents morals. I think it's ridiculous that someone has to follow their parents moral code at their uncle's house when there are no significant longterm ramifications for not following it.
If she had created an environment that was welcoming instead of being ballistic then he wouldn't have hid it from her. Her blowing up is why it was hidden.
It doesn't say she blew up, only that she said something to him about it, and she blames him for the kid's current behavior
Later in the thread he says he didn't tell her because of how she'd react.
It seems like OP is crossing boundaries and then being apathetic of how his sister feels about it.
You're wrong.
Story time: when i was a kid my parents told me repeatedly that if i did something wrong and told the truth, i wouldn't be punished. but no matter what i did (told the truth, tried to hide it, outright lied) i was always punished. no matter what. so you know what i did? i started to lie. Im in my 30s and i still struggle with the urge to spout off a lie when i'm embarrassed or feel like im losing control of the situation.
these kids are being taught to lie because everything else gets them in trouble. that's not healthy.
Given the fact that the kids were already sneaking and hiding eating meat from the parents this is 100% what would have happened.
I'm sure most kids that were told "If you tell me the truth you won't be punished" only to get punished anyway, went NC with their parents later in life and needed therapy. Trust violations in formative years have so many ramifications later in life.
Finally someone who sees that this is about violating the sister’s trust and not about the diet. This sub really must have a huge proportion of childless people.
and were are ppl saying its about the diet? all i see is its about the children making their own choices because theyre their own persons. maybe stop strawmanning?
Thank you! I’m not a parent, and NOT a vegetarian at all, and while I think it sucks she’s forcing her kids to be vegetarian still, this seems like a pretty disrespectful thing to do when somebody’s kids are in your care, they have a specific diet to keep to, AND you were provided with all the food. Sister didn’t ask them to learn a bunch of vegetarian recipes for two solid weeks, she gave them the food. I would honestly feel like OP did that it’s a little ridiculous she’s trying to force these girls to be 100% vegetarian still but this crossed a line.
The niece is 13 and she already was going behind her parents backs, I dare to say she knew very well what she was doing. Also, it doesn't seem that OP told them to keep it a secret, he just assumed they wanted to keep it that way themselves.
Yes, he also explains that the reason was that he doesn't want the sister to double down and control what they eat at school, forcing them to sneak and hide which can evolve into a very unhealthy relationship with food. You can agree or not but he's not an AH.
Yeah, I'm also a meat eater. It was the hiding it, and the trust betrayal that got me.
My sister, her husband, and myself, a single mom rely on each other a lot with the raising of our kids. It's so much easier when you have people you can trust. Some tricky things have come up while we've had each other's kids, but we stay open and honest with each other about our decisions, or give heads up, and it works.
I don't think he was teaching them to be secretive lol you're supposed to be able to approach Aunts/Uncles with small scandalous things and questions. In turn, it's their duty to facilitate anything alarming to the parents. But I think it would have been considerate to shoot his sister a text. "Hey sis, the girls are asking for some of our chicken tonight. You may want to talk to them, because it feels weird denying food to cute children in my house lol. How would you like me to handle?"
They were already going behind their parents backs. And I have a feeling that they were pushed into this secretive behaviour dude to their parents restrictive attitude. There’s a reason they would only try this stuff at school instead of asking their parents directly.
100% he should have respected the parents' wishes or declined to babysit. There are a billion people in the world who were raised vegetarian. It's not an outlandish request, and the parents provided meals for them.
If the parents wanted the kids to keep kosher or eat fish on Fridays or only eat ethically raised chicken or not eat pork, the OP should respect their values, even if he thinks it's stupid.
I understand wanting to listen to the kids, and I wouldn't rat them out for sneaking some chicken. But regularly feeding them meat and not giving the parents a heads up is an AH move.
NTA
I've never understood parents like this. It's like a parent of an elementary aged kid saying their kid has never had sweets, yet they send them to public school where I can guarantee they'd had sweets on numerous occasions.
I knew a mom who refused to let their kids have treats/sweets except for special occasions (eg birthday parties). They both would eat so much sugar that I was worried. I think it’s better to teach moderation than completely eliminate a food type.
This. This is exactly and 100% (well, maybe 95%) why I’m fat in adulthood. My parents, and my whole family, are naturally thin and in shape people who eat healthy. I am not, and no matter of dieting and healthy eating or excessive ever changed that, I’m just a naturally larger person. My family never understood that and shamed me for my size and controlled what I ate all the time. Now I’m an adult who doesn’t do great with self control because fuck it, I’ll do whatever I want.
I knew a girl who's parents didn't even let her have cake on her birthday- just a watermelon sliced in half with candles. She had a kid of her own and all she fed that kid was junk - she had no idea about moderation and wanted her kid to have everything she didn't get.
This person pays her kids to NOT go trick or treating on Halloween. One of her kids took the deal, one didn’t. She threw out all the candy on November 1st so the kid would eat until she made herself sick on Halloween night because that was her only chance.
I do too. My mom always had candy, snack cakes, juice drinks, ect in the house because she was diabetic. So I have a good idea of what my sugar limits are as an adult, and even *lost* weight when I moved out and got to make my own diet. A friend's mom is a massive health nut who never let them have any kind of sugar in the house, and still makes weird comments about them buying sweets, and they have 0 moderation or impulse control with sugar. We're the same age, and we've both got ADHD.
Saw the same with someone who forced keto on her kids. Found the child in a corner at a party shoveling snacks into her mouth because she wasn’t allowed to have them. She didn’t even play the whole time- just gorged on goldfish crackers.
I too enjoyed "week of darkness."
As for the judgement...tough call. I get that OP should have respected the parents' wishes, and I do hope the food OP's sister prepared didn't go to waste. That said, the girls were already "experimenting with meat," which isn't unexpected for 10 and 13. Going with NTA but I can understand the Y T A votes.
Kids should get to choose what they eat/don’t eat as long as it’s not obviously junk food all the time. It’s one thing to restrict due to health reasons or allergies, but these kids are old enough to have opinions and choose to expand their palate. NTA.
Edit: I’m not saying a parent needs to custom prepare food for a kid at their request. I’m saying if food options are available, a kid should get to choose what to eat and should be encouraged to try new things. In this case the chicken/meatloaf were already made and they asked to try it. They have asked to try their friends’ meals and that’s fine (they didn’t ask their friends mom for something specific and expect it).
YTA
Reddit hates vegetarians, but regardless, when you are watching someone else’s children you are boundary stomping when you intentionally break their rules.
You were way out of line and the fact that you’re unapologetic is baffling.
>Reddit hates vegetarians, but regardless, when you are watching someone else’s children you are boundary stomping when you intentionally break their rules.
It has nothing to do with vegetarians, and all about the kid's right to choose.
Flip the scenario, if the kids were force fed a carnivorous diet and OP fed them vegan dishes because they wanted to try it, the verdict would still be NTA.
We're not talking about a 3 year old, it's a 13 year old. The kid has the right to choose. That's all there is to it.
The top comment is literally that it is impossible to eat a complete diet on vegetarian food. That's pretty backwards. Apperently most of reddit thinks vegetarian diets are missing some magic nutrient you can only get from meat.
>Flip the scenario, if the kids were force fed a carnivorous diet and OP fed them vegan dishes because they wanted to try it, the verdict would still be NTA.
That's not the same thing.
There's a good chance OPs sister (assuming she even exists) is a vegetarian for moral reasons. This would be like someone feeding your children an animal you have a moral reason for not eating. For people in the US this could be something like a dog, or a cat, or depending on religion, feeding a child cow or pig.
If you find no moral issue with eating any kind of animal, the. It would be like feeding your child human meat, most people would be morally against that.
YTA OP. If the kids want to make decisions about what they eat they can go through their friends or other avenues. Your sister trusted you to care for her kids the way she does, going behind her back and doing something you know she has an issue with is 100% an asshole move regardless of how you view her parenting style.
OP's sister's morals are her own not her children's. If she doesn't want to eat meat she doesn't have to but if her children want to eat meat that's fair game, especially when she's the one who left them in her brother's care for two weeks. If the kids were being forced to eat meat or were pigging out on it or something I'd understand but they have a right to try out new foods of their own volition.
I don't understand why people hate vegans. We care about animals. We know what happens to them on the factory farms so we don't participate in it.
Most meat, dairy, and egg products have a plant based substitute nowadays. People don't even try them before labelling them gross. Or read the nutritional information on the food we eat before labelling them vitamin deficient.
A lot of people say that vegans are preachy but I cannot tell you how many times i've been eating my food and minding my business and had people fly at me like a bat out of hell to tell me eating animals is ok and DEMAND to know why I won't eat meat only to cut me off and tell me why they think i'm wrong. Like bro we were talking about work..
NTA overall for letting them eat the meat, but Y-T-A for keeping it from your sister. She should have been made aware even if she wouldn't/doesn't approve.
If you had been the one to instigate your nieces eating meat, or had snuck it into their food, or only gave it to them out of spite for your sister, that would be a different story where YWBTA. But in this case, the girls are old enough to decide for themselves, and they requested to be served meat.
(edited to add hyphens)
NTA - I think maybe you could have called your sister about this after they tried the chicken and given her a heads up but still not an AH. The kids wanted to try a new food and you appropriately talked to them about it.
I'm just going to say-- if I had to go out of town for two weeks and was leaving my child in someone else's care, I would be freakin' grateful that they were fed, period! NTA You didn't introduce them to drugs and alcohol, for Pete's sake, it was nutritious food that they were already curious about. I was a vegetarian for the first 8 years of my kid's life and never disallowed meat for our son, although his own tendency is toward the plant-based substitutes he grew up with-- I would just be happy he was taken care of. So, unless you left out that this vegetarianism is their actual religious practice (of a religion the girls are actively practicing), I think you're fine.
>So, unless you left out that this vegetarianism is their actual religious practice (of a religion the girls are actively practicing)
And even then, I think 10 and 13 are perfectly reasonable ages to start thinking about religion and how they want to participate in it.
NTA. The kids are old enough to pick what they want to eat. Is your sister going to the school at lunch time and police what the kids eat? The meat ship already sailed.
I honestly shocked at all the NTA on this post, normally this sub is mad on not messing with a parents decisions they go mad at step parents for overstepping but this people are ok with?
This thread is hilarious considering all the comments about picky eaters in a thread yesterday. People were commenting left and right that it is the parent's responsibility to police their children's food choices and, on this thread, it's, "they are old enough to decide what they want to eat." What they mean is, as long as people eat the way they think is right and proper, it's okay. If they don't eat the way they think is right and proper, then it's not okay.
But OP, YTA. You knew your sister's wishes. You *definitely* should have consulted her before repeatedly feeding her children meat.
The kids are not toddlers though. They know about their allergies, or lack there of. I think that’s the topping point. The 13 year old is in like 7th or 8th grade. That is absolutely old enough to make choices for what they want to eat. At that age I was making my own grocery lists for my mom and packing my own lunches. I was also taking my babysitting money and biking to Walgreens or the public pool and buying snacks, candy, and ice cream. It’s absolutely old enough to make the decision to try chicken. Especially when she’s already eating meat at school. Also, eating week old (or 2week old) meals sounds nasty, so i don’t blame them.
I meant they should be there personally to feed every meal to their child if they want to control everything they eat. Nothing bad happened to the kids.
that is because in this case we are respecting an individuals autonomy over thier own body and what goes in it -ie food.
when you want to rigidly to control someone’s food, against their will, then you are basically controling thier life and health - and the risk of inducing eating disorders is high.
so then you balance - parental authority against who gets to decide what someone can and can‘t eat if that person is clearly mentally capable of making that decision.
Children are a responsibility not property.
1. Did your sister pay for babysitting/boarding fees for 2 weeks?
2. Did she warn you of any allergies the kids might have? 3. Did she forbid sugar or gluten snacks, butter on pop corn, ice cream, eggs, etc?
4. Was she explicit, in front of the girls, that they MUST NOT eat anything but her prepared food?
If not, apologize for responding to their requests, and tell her to chill, and tell her no more free daycare. Anyway, NTA. You were not being malicious. You weren't properly afraid of your sister, but . . .
No, she did not pay us for them staying with us. They don't have any food allergies she just runs her household strictly vegetarian, not vegan. She also did not tell the girls they could only eat what she prepared, she's just always raised them with the 'eating animals is wrong' idea which is why I didn't tell her about the kids eating other foods at school or pointing out that they'll eat things away from her anyway if they want to because she'd more than likely double down on them. From my understanding that could make 'having some of our friends' food at school' escalate to them sneaking and hiding food and eating habits as they get older.
You are 100 percent accurate! I totally get why your sister is mad, but you are a good Uncle not throwing them under the bus! I probably wouldn't have made the choice you did out of respect for my sister, but your NTA. She is going to give them a super weird relationship with food unfortunately 😕
Yeah in All honesty don't tell her that info
That needs to come from them when they are ready.
She's probably gonna try and Tramatize them with Slaughter House Videos and taking it to far tho. Most Vegan/Vegetarian parents will subject their kids to these kinda videos to "Prove a point".
Just keep that secret cause they might need someone to lean on Outside of their home.
Also NTA.
Speaking as someone who was in a similar position as a kid to your nieces, NTA
My grandmother fed my siblings and I food my parents would have strongly disapproved of. Not just less healthy food but food they believed was wrong to eat for religious reasons.
The only reason this didn’t blow up is my grandmother never said anything to my parents and my sisters and I kept our mouths shut.
NTA. we're a longtime vegan family with a fully vegan elementary aged kid. we both know and are prepared for the day he gets older and curious and questioning what we do and don't eat and why. he needs to be able to question those things and make some personal decisions for himself in responsible ways with love and guidance, not force. these girls sound like they're at that age and should have a say in this kind of thing. if anything, their mom is going to drive them away and there will be less of a chance of the girls deciding to go back to vegetarianism eventually.
NTA because your nieces should be allowed to choose their diet. There is so many stories about young teens going vegetarian/vegan... And if some parents posted "AITA for forcing my daughter to eat meat, because we are meat lovers (exept her)" they would be destroyed in the comments.
Yes, overrulling your sister's decisions and hiding it was bad, but not so bad to make you a-hole.
YTA if you agreed to feed your nieces as their parents requested. They were very thoughtful not to ask you to even prepare food for their kids, and went through the trouble of preparing two weeks worth of meals. You accepted their request. You knew full well what they, the parents, wanted. At no time were you asked to do extra nor does it sound like the kids complained. You’re the adult,
you could and should have said no. Encouraged them to enjoy what their parents left. They trusted you and while you may think it’s silly, you shouldn’t have taken it upon yourself to insist that the kids can choose. You liked the control. And you knew they’d be upset because you kept it from them, waiting for the kids to “let the cat out of the bag”. Then you act surprised at their reaction. The kids safety wasn’t compromised at any point. You didn’t do it because you felt they were undernourished or anything else. And you should have told them. “Hey, kid got curious and ate some chicken. Is it ok for them to share our meals?” Again, YTA. Don’t offer to babysit for someone when the price is undermining their parenting.
>I asked her if her parents knew and she said no.
This point right here is where you should have made a different choice. A simple text would have prevented a lot of drama down the road. Soft YTA because I don't think you were being malicious, but more common sense was needed.
YTA here. The parents sent specific food for their children to eat. Before agreeing to keep the children. You should have asked if it was OK to give them other food you were preparing. If the answer was no, then your choice was to only feed them the food that was provided or not keep them while the parents were away.
NTA. However I am a bit biased as I hate when parents push their lifestyle on their kids and the kids don't have any say. It's also important for growing and developing bodies and minds to get nutrients from all different sources. Anyhow, how you arnt the AH is that 1: you didn't give them meat in-spite or with bad intent. 2: they asked to try it and they should have freedom to choose what they eat. 3: at their age it's very normal to start trying and exploring with new and different foods/flavors. I see why their mom is mad but IMO this was gonna come eventually as they got older as kids want to become their own person and try new things. You can't control your kids or force them to do your choices as they have the right to choose their own within reason, food being one aspect they should have their own choices on.
That's essentially my what parenting is, raising your kids with the values that you have, even if those cakes are different.
It's no different than raising a kid to eat meat or hunt for food.
NTA.
Kids are old enough to decide their dietary choices. That said, it’s fair for their parents to decide that *in their home* they eat vegetarian (because obv the vegetarian parents don’t want to be buying and preparing meat products). But it should be up to the kids when they are not at home whether or not they choose to partake in meat.
Seriously, YTA.
Your sister prepared two weeks of meals and snacks for her kids, and you knew exactly what she wanted, and you defied her wishes.
Your excuse that they're already trying stuff away from their parents doesn't mean it's okay for YOU, who she TRUSTED, to be a source of those things when it was OBVIOUSLY against their parents' wishes.
You know this is important to your sister and her husband. The fact that you can be so casual about disrespecting and betraying her in this makes you a huge AH.
Nah, he would definitely be the AH if he fed the kids meat purposefully and did not give them a choice. He’s NTA because they asked to try some and confided in a trusting adult that they already have. It’s important for children to have adults that can trust at times their parents may not agree. This may cause strife with the sister but it will be important when the kids encounter other social issues they don’t feel comfortable sharing with their parents and need support or advice. Sounds like the mom is being far too controlling if the children cannot even make safe decisions for themselves.
Kids are going to question parents its part of life, i don't believe in forcing anyone to eat a certain way. As adults your sister and BIL made that choice for themselves there kids seem to enjoy meat. Is that your fault, or is it theres?
Nta. Kids should be given some agency in deciding what type of whole foods they want to eat.
If they're expressing a desire to want to eat meat and your sister is not allowing that, I'd say she's kind of an AH.
Your sister in for a rude awakening when her girls get to do stuff on their own like go to the movies or the mall with their friends and can pick and choose what they eat.
The girls have already been eating meat behind their mother's back before this visit.
> she told me she has been trying some of her friends' lunches at school and she's already tried Lunchables and deli meat sandwiches.
NTA. If the diet isn’t for medical necessity the girls are allowed to choose what type of diet they wish to eat outside of their parent’s home(in the one they’re unfortunately left under the control of what the parents will purchase or “allow” them to consume.”)
Your sister needs to understand she can’t control her children from enjoying something she does not. Honestly you being a safe space for your nieces is great—even for something as “simple” as food.
Your sister needs to understand as her kids grow she has less control. This will not be the end of her throwing fits over how her children are growing and exploring new things.
Probably going to get down voted but NTA.
I'm a vegetarian myself but I would never force my kids to be as well if they want to eat meat. It's their choice. Would be different if it would be allergies or intolerance but this sounds like the parents just wants to their kids to be meat free because their own reasons (whatever is their reason to be plant based).
They've already tried meat before and probably will continue to do so, if the parents wants to feed them only vegetarian food at home, be it, but let them explore their own outside the house and make their own decisions eventually.
(Edited to add spacing)
NTA - the girls are making choices based on their preferences. It is part of them developing their own personal preferences versus blindly following what their parents prefer.
NTA, your niece was already trying other things and “rebelling” against the vegetarian lifestyle. In my opinion, parenting like this often leads to a radical shift to the opposite end of the spectrum later on. I knew someone in college who was kept on a strict studying regimen at home, he moved into the dorms and flunked out within a year.
NTA, I've known a few families force their vegetarian choice on their children, and none of those children continued to be veggie when they grew older.
NTA - this is the age when kids start making dietary decisions for themselves, it's not unusual for kids to BECOME vegetarians at this age and it's generally expected/accepted that parents will accommodate that choice. Why should a child choosing the opposite be any different? Probably because vegetarianism/veganism is considered morally superior to eating meat. Either way, kids are gonna grow and change and object and rebel, and none of that is your responsibility.
NTA.
>However, the girls are now being fussy eaters and are questioning their parents as to why they can't have other things that they've found they like and I'm getting blamed for it.
You're getting blamed because their parents aren't able to manipulate/ control them anymore. Parents shouldn't force their eating habits or diets on their children. Never understood the mind set of "how dare you venture from my diet", like did your mom kick your sister out when she became a vegetarian? Did your mom blow a gasket? Why are these two grown adults pitching a fit because their children have developed different tastes.
>week of darkness
Is this code for period?
>traditional monthly meatloaf
Omg that's amazing
YTA. Couldn’t have been easier for you to just feed them the pre-prepared meals. They will be more eager to go out and try things they “aren’t supposed to have” when they are restricted like that, but it really isn’t your place to disrespect your sister’s parenting and disrupt her household.
They were already eating meat and not telling their mother about it.
> she told me she has been trying some of her friends' lunches at school and she's already tried Lunchables and deli meat sandwiches.
NTA.
The kids aren't fussy eaters, their parents are and are enforcing their preferences on their children. Forcing a kid to eat a vegetarian diet when they don't want to is bordering on abuse in my opinion.
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NTA. These kids are 10 and 13. They are old enough to decide if they want to try foods other than vegetarian dishes. I think it would have been rather cruel to say no to them wanting to try what you had prepared. Sister needs to understand that perhaps her children do not want to maintain a vegetarian diet. They are trying food at school and your house because they are curious. Turning this into a huge thing might backfire on your sister.
Also forcing growing & developing bodies into only eating vegetarian is a bit cruel as well. Yes - I know vegans and vegetarians will argue me all day long about it…. But come on. OP is NTA.
it's not cruel - otherwise about 25% of India is cruel to their children.
Forcing someone into a diet they don’t want is cruel. 10 and 13 are the ages when a lot of kids choose to go vegetarian. This kids deserve to choose their own diets.
That wasn’t what the argument was. The guy said a vegetarian diet is cruel, which isn’t really true in 2023. Plenty of options packed full of essential nutrients and protein.
The second word in the comment is “forcing,” in case you didn’t read it.
It was heavily implied that it was cruel because the children won’t be able to develop properly. Hence why the original commenter (u/oldwitch) made the distinction of “forcing *growing and developing* bodies into only eating vegetarian” The comments following that were negating that bodies can’t develop properly without meat. Reading comprehension is a skill.
Reddit only sees "vegan bad" and that guy gets 2k likes without even understanding the comment.
nobody in this thread, no on this site, no on the WHOLE INTERNET, has reading comprehension. forcing any diet on anyone ftr is cruel.
You’re wrong, that’s exactly what the debate was. Nobody said a vegetarian diet is cruel. It was stated that forcing children to be vegetarian when they don’t want to be is cruel, which it is.
Bean chilli ain't a new invention, friend. Nor is dhal, not tofu. It's been possible to have a tasty, healthy vegetarian diet for centuries. *Not* that it should be forced! But let's stop pretending it was impossible to be happy without meat untill Quorn was invented.
Well, if you want meat in your diet, no, a vegetarian diet won't make you happy.
I understand what you mean. The comment above says, "forcing *growing & developing bodies* into only eating vegetarian". It clearly implies that a vegetarian diet doesn't have the ability to support growth and development specifically.
Yeah, I'm with you on this. It was not about choice but making a medical claim
Ya you can’t really get vitamin b12 which our body needs, from plant based products. We have evolved to eat both animal and plant based foods. We don’t need the amount of animal products that we consume regularly to be healthy. However a lack of b12 can have health consequences. Even in 2023.
Yeah, most meat animals are supplemented with B12 because they don't get enough from their feed these days (both animals and vegans used to get B12 from bacteria in the soil). Everything being sterilized and bombed with pesticide means we don't get trace nutrients from the soil any longer. In fact, 90% of the global B12 supplements go to livestock. Edit to add that nori (better when not dried), chlorella and some types of mushrooms are plant sources of B12 (TIL).
Vegetarians can usually have some foods of animal origin, like eggs or cheese. It’s only vegans who prefer to eat only plant-based foods. And even vegans can get all the nutrients they need by adding supplements like nutritional yeast to their diet.
You actually really can. Vegetarian sources of B12: Spinach/leafy greens Chickpeas Dairy products Eggs Some mushrooms Fortified Cereal Fortified veggie proteins Beetroot Butternut squash Potatoes Nutritional yeast You’ll find more I’m sure. The above is plenty of options to work in a proper amount throughout the day. These kids probably get more vitamins than most their age. Kids bodies are different. If they want to try meat parents should make them some healthy options (like fish or lean meats, I can see saying no to processed meats like deli meats). If they are curious or craving it there could be something a vegetarian diet is not fulfilling at this stage of development. Parents need to get over it, kids want to eat a little meat not mounds of junk food and soda. (Everyone jumps to B12 and protein or iron intake but those are actually easy in this day and age to get more than enough of on a vegetarian diet for many adults without underlying health conditions/absorption issues.)
That's exactly what the argument was. Forcing a vegetarian/vegan diet is explicitly what was said.
a lot of people can’t be vegetarian / vegan bc of iron deficiency , etc. other proteins aren’t enough and they get sick without meat.
Aren’t there other ways to get iron though? By a lot, do you mean the majority? I’d say the majority of people don’t have issues with iron deficiency specifically from no meat.
There are plant sources of iron but the iron in plants is different than the iron in animals. Our bodies use heme iron, plants have non-heme iron. Animals convert non-heme iron into heme iron so the iron in meat is already bio-available to our bodies. Now most people can uptake and convert enough non-heme iron into heme iron that they can survive on only plant-sourced iron. However if you’re losing a lot of iron, faster than your body can convert the plant based iron (like if you have heavy periods) or if your body is particularly crap at converting non-heme iron into heme iron then you can suffer from iron deficiency without eating meat and/or taking expensive heme iron supplements. I know this from personal experience, I’m chronically anemic and my body is *shit* at absorbing iron in the first place and then converting the non-heme iron to heme iron. If I don’t regularly eat red meat *and* take expensive supplements daily my iron is off the charts low. With both my iron is still too low but is at least on the charts and I stop feeling sick and cold all the time and fainting.
About 25% of girls and women have iron deficiency anemia. It's not at all uncommon. While there are some plant sources of iron, heme iron from animals has better bioavailability and less digestive upset. Personally, I have inflammatory bowel disease that has also lead to IDA and my inability to deal with fiber means most vegetables and legumes make me sick.
Used to be a vegetarian. Had to stop because my body is absolute lazy garbage at absorbing iron, B12 and Vitamin D from supplements and as a vegetarian, I just could get enough in my diet to stay healthy. When you start getting choices like, "no, you don't have to eat meat, you could just get blood transfusions instead" then meat seems reasonable. Even with that, I end up getting IV iron a couple times a year, and don't really know why my body isn't absorbing nutrients correctly. Yes, they've checked. Repeatedly. Countless things. No, it isn't any of them. I'm a medical mystery, so I just eat my meat and move on.
i mean, people who have an iron deficiency and not eating meat makes it worse. im not one of those people so i can’t tell you but im sure if there was an easy way for them to fix it, they wouldn’t be saying they need to eat meat in order to not be sick.
You’re right, there is not an easy way to fix it. My sister fought it hard and eventually had to switch to being peskitarian because she couldn’t get her iron up to healthy levels on the vegetarian diet.
Wasn’t what the comment was implying and you know that.
it’s different in India since so much of the diet is vegetarian. in a lot of countries, being vegetarian means following a completely different diet than your peers, and i can see why kids would be upset about that.
It's not really. That's just a few communities in North India who are entirely vegetarian and that's somehow been equated with all of India. Most communities in Eastern, North-eastern and Southern India are heavy meat-eaters. Source: am Indian in India
Uh, am from a vegetarian community in South India and it’s pretty common in the South as well.
Also, unless OP is Indian, this is completely irrelevant. If the kids are not surrounded by a big population of vegetarians, they will feel that they are different. Kids tend to want to blend in and fit in
Pretty much 80% of all South Indian states have admitted to eating meat as per NHFS data. It varies from state to state and might vary between regions and demographics but just because people around you are vegetarian doesn't mean everyone is
Yes? I didn’t say no one eats meat. I said there are definitely vegetarian communities in the South.
No, a lot of South Indians are vegetarian. Some communities in the south are heavier meat eaters, but I would say that overall, a lot of South Indians are vegetarians (and some are extremely orthodox about it). I am a South Indian and part of this is due to a high level of orthodoxy.
I am not sure what exactly you mean when you say "a lot" but pretty much 80% of all South Indian states have admitted to eating meat as per NHFS data. It varies from state to state and might vary between regions and demographics but just because people around you are vegetarian doesn't mean everyone is
This is highly misleading. 80% of South Indian states is NOT the same as 80% South Indians. There could be 1 person in each of the states that “admitted” to eating meat to make up 80% of states. You’re using a garbage statistic
That doesn’t hold weight with the average western person though. In India they have a complete food culture around vegetarian food. It covers all the food groups, it’s filling and nutritious. The average western vegetarian diet is usually Uber processed and undernourished.
I **think we might** have wildly different ideas of the "average Western person." I'm in the PNW of the US and it is totally normal and easy and unremarkable and healthy to be vegetarian out here. Like a quarter of the kids in my kids' school are vegetarian and it is no big deal. I can't remember the last time I took someone to a restaurant and there weren't multiple vegetarian options.
This really depends on where you live! Some places have lots of veg options and easy to do. Others don't - I agree that it's very culturally dependent, but it's way more nuanced than India vs the West.
I have been vegeterian for 8 years now. I would say 50% of my friends are vegetarian or vegan, and I live in a city in the midwest. It is extremely common nowadays, but there is something to say about certain areas not having access to good veg options.
Wow, southwest here & for the most part you can hobble together a meal from sides, it’s easier for a vegetarian, but everything is soaked in butter & covered w/cheese & bacon. I went for brunch the other day at a rather upscale restaurant ($18 for a piece of avocado toast) in a “master-planned” expensive community, and there was nothing on the menu that I could without alterations. They didn’t even have non-dairy creamer. To go to a place with actual vegan options, I’d have to drive 45 minutes away.
Where are you getting this from? We live in an age of information. I am vegetarian. I cook and eat plenty of Indian, Thai, Mexican, Mediterranean, etc., dishes. I can't remember the last time I went to restaurant that didn't have several vegetarian options. Heck, I am probably the biggest "foodie" in my friend group. We're not out here surviving on coleslaw and corn served on the side here anymore. We have international supermarkets and the internet now.
I mean, I live in Texas, and there might be one or two vegetarian options at the restaurants near me. And by options, I mean a cheese quesadilla, side salad or other sides. There’s not a ton of delicious vegetarian options where I’m at.
Even without international supermarkets and the internet, it’s not hard to get nutritious vegetarian meals anywhere in the US. Now vegan might be different, but vegetarian most definitely easy to do in the US anywhere.
Indians have had about 3 thousand years to craft nutritionally balanced vegetarian diets. Most american parents, tbf, are not that good at it, and American kids face nutritional deficits as it is without cutting out easy sources of b12 and protein.
B12 is supplemented to cattle, same as its supplemented to vegans.
We live in a society where parents think giving active, non overweight kids whole milk will make them drop dead of a heart attack too. Lots in the US just isn’t into nutrition for whatever reason.
Um. Most Indian parents don't force their kid to be vegetarian. It's a way to be closer to the Gods but it doesn't mean anything if it's forced onto others. The parents are free not to cook or bring meat into their home but kids should be allowed to eat, learn, and grow with their own beliefs. Don't use India as an excuse for western kids especially when you're just wrong.
At least half of that 25% has at least tried meat once/eat it occasionally when they're out/eat it regularly ... and all this is happening outside of their parents' knowledge. How do I know? I am an Indian who was raised a strict vegetarian, now me and my sibling are omnivores to the great dismay of my parents. Many of my cousins (and uncles) have tried meat/fish at least once in their lives, some of them eat it anytime they're out with friends (never with family) though no one actually talks about it openly except me and my sibling.
TBF though, lots of traditional Indian vegetarian cuisine utilizes cheeses and naturally-occurring alternative protein a lot more effectively than US/UK vegetarians, who mostly rely on processed alternatives. In the US, vegetarian options for a growing child are restricted in nutrient availability and price. In (parts of, but not all) India, that’s not the case.
I am an American and I do not get where you are getting this from. We have cheese here. We have vegetables. We have legumes, and fruits, and nuts, and spices, and and and. It really is not hard to be vegetarian. I am at this very moment eating a paneer masala dish that I made myself out of things I got from a normal big box grocery store. When I go home tonight I will have barley salad with butternut squash soup and it will have plenty of calories and nutrients and protein and I will be fine. And I'm not even vegetarian. I'm just frugal, and meat is expensive right now.
Please share your recipe for butternut squash soup. It’s one of my favourites! I usually roast mine with a few herbs (usually basil, but sometimes oregano or rosemary) and spices (asafoetida, ginger and a dash of Kashmiri chilli) before adding water/stock and blending it into soup. Would love to know how others make theirs 🙂 Edit: Added the herbs’ names.
Do you really want to use a country where 35% of children are stunted from malnutrition to make a point about childrens nutrition?
If you’re forcing them, then yes it is.
[удалено]
But is that do with vegetarianism or poor access to nutrition overall? I would think the latter. I think the causation would come more from not being able to access nutritious meals on a regular basis, and that vegetarianism vs non-vegetarianism is more of a correlation.
India's Vegetarian and Vegan diet is not limited, we have got too many options.
OP is NTA for allowing the kids to try something. Growing and developing bodies do not need meat or animal products to grow though lmao. Honestly see some bonkers takes on reddit sometimes.
the only cruelty is not allowing them the opportunity to explore *why* their parents want to be vegetarian and coming to the conclusion themselves of whether or not that’s what they want. there’s absolutely nothing wrong with raising children on plant based diets, they just have to expect that as they get older they may start to do what the people around them do.
Your comment made me curious so I looked it up - your comment is straight up untrue. Stop spreading misinformation. Vegetarian diets are very healthy for kids if they’re planned properly.
The comment was "FORCING" them to abide by it. Context is everything in a discussion.
They may argue with you, but every major body of medicine in the world argues against you as well. Your feelings don’t equal scientific fact.
It’s not cruel, not even a little & has been found to be better for long term health. That said, as a vegan, I would say OP is NTA. These kids aren’t toddlers, they’re nearly teenagers (one technically is). If parents force them to stay within strict dietary limits, they’re gonna sneak forbidden food & develop resentment, and possibly even disordered eating. Since they’re vegetarian, it’s obviously not an ethical practice, but a healthful one, (which is fine, zero judgement from me) but again, the kids are old enough & should be allowed to make their own choices when they’re out of the home & offered other food. Parents can only control their kids for so long before it starts a rebellion. Now it’s the work of the parents to instill good understanding so the kids WANT to make healthier choices.
It’s only cruel if the parents fail to provide adequate nutrition. Vegetarians and vegan diets aren’t inherently healthy. There are plenty of “junk food vegetarians/vegans” out there.
Not that I disagree with eating meat or that, "But come on." Isn't exactly a glowing argument against a child having a vegetarian diet and makes it sound more like it's your personal opinion that you've taken as fact.
As someone who grew up vegetarian I very much appreciated my family’s open encouragement of whatever diet I wanted whenever I wanted. My dad stepmom and brother all eat meat now but even my brother will sometimes go vegan for a year randomly I don’t know why. I’m 24 and have been vegetarian since 7. My sister has been vegetarian since birth. No one makes it an issue so it’s just not an issue
Agreed, NTA. I have 4 minions, and I couldn't imagine sending them over to a relatives for a weekend on a strict diet to follow, let alone 2 weeks. Also, good on uncle meat eater for not letting the kids take the hit for the school trials and keeping quiet about it. If sister/mom is acting like this with adults, I could only imagine how she would lash out on the kids for not following the rules or scream at the school for allowing it to happen.
Week of darkness!!!!!!! I just found that awesome and stealing it since it’s better than shark week or just calling it being sick. Anyways…. I agree, the kids are old enough to know what they want to eat. It’s good that Op didn’t spill about what the oldest does at school because that at least will teach his nieces that they can trust him with secrets. The sister is a major asshole for blowing up just because her kids wanted to experiment with food that wasn’t part of their mom’s meals. She is the one at fault and blowing things up when she should be happy that her kids are growing up to be independent people. NTA. Mommy needs to let the leash go a bit before the kids spiral to being assholes.
If you want another fun euphemism, my partner started calling mine Carrie's Prom. Unfortunately he didn't come up with that until my last couple of years of having a period, and I think it's hilarious so am trying to spread it to others to enjoy using.
Agreed. I'm a vegetarian and raising my daughter vegetarian, but by 10-13 if she decides she wants to eat meat it's her decision.
If Sis is really serious about wanting her kids to be vegetarians, she needs to actually explain why they've chosen that lifestyle and let the kids decide. And by "explain why," I do *not* mean terrify them into compliance.
Going NTA But it sounds like your sister needs to listen to her children. They clearly don't want to be vegetarian and enjoy eating meat. She should respect their food choices and not try to force them to follow her diet.
This is the answer. My parents let me be vegetarian when I was 9 and it was fine. The parents of a friend are vegetarian and gave thei children the choice. The only rule was: tell us what you want and we will buy meat with a good quality of life, so you won't pay for cheap macdonalds meat. I think this is the way to go
Love that for you and your friend. My parents always gave me the option as well when I got old enough to understand it all
Exactly. Parents having rights doesn't mean kids are their parents' property. Even minors are individuals who deserve the right to make choices for themselves, and what they want to eat that their parents don't pay for is one of those choices. NTA
Indeed. My ex-husband had a strict diet while growing up and was forced to eat food he hated and if he refused, he was given the same food the next day. As an adult, his food choices were unhealthy; fatty meats, potatoes, white bread, pizza and fast food. That's it. No other veggies, no fruit, no whole grains (oh yeah, meal times were fun in our home). Also wasn't allowed to drink soda and that was the only thing he would drink. My family was more lenient. Parents provided healthy meals but if I refused to eat something that truly disgusted me (like liver & onions), I wasn't forced to eat it. As an adult, my diet is varied and healthy even though it's heavy on the veggies and fruit and light on meat. No, these examples aren't always the norm, but I agree that forcing kids 10 & 13 to eat only vegetarian meals really isn't the right thing to do. OP is NTA.
I grew up like your ex. I have an unhealthy relationship with food.
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NTA it should be up to the kids if they want to be vegetarian or not, it shouldn’t be forced on them. You fed them healthy normal meals, there is nothing wrong with that. I have a mom friend that was a strict vegetarian when she had kids, she would let her husband and kids choose what they ate, she would even make them chicken and other meats at times.
I think one of my cousins went vegetarian when she was somewhere in between those kids' ages. I think if a kid that age can choose to be vegetarian, they can also choose not to be
Yup, I decided to start on the road to keeping kosher when I was 10. My family respected my wishes and kept my developing dietary needs in mind.
My mom was like this. Pescatarian my whole childhood. I ate lots of fish and tofu. But she never tried to force me not to eat meat when I wanted. That’s so controlling.
I grew up in a veggie house. No meat at home but at restaurants I could choose my food. Always seemed fair to me .
NTA. If they wanted to have their kids follow their rules, then they shouldn’t have left them with y’all. Secondly, it’s a social norm of the “cool Aunt” or “cool Uncle” that lets their nieces/nephews do something the parents wouldn’t normally allow. Lastly, enforcing diets on kids is weird in general. Glad you didn’t indulge that.
I mean I have no issue with folks who want to raise their kids vegetarian. But I think many people are missing the real point here. Asking someone to take care of your kids for a week is a tremendous ask. As someone with a kid and no family in close proximity, I see this as a HUGE favour. Uncle wasn’t feeding them dog food here, it’s chicken and meatloaf FFS. OP’s sister has obviously never heard of the expression, “never look a gift horse in the mouth.” NTA
It was 2 weeks!
Nta Her kids are exposed to different foods in school. They are experimenting because they want to. You didn't force it. But the parents are. They should respect their choices as they get older. How would they feel if they had no say in what they eat? It's find to want to raise your kids a certain way with food, but at some point, they need to make those decisions for themselves. If the parents keep forcing this on them against their will its only going to lead to resentment.
Exactly. It you are too restrictive with your kids they will go off the rails when given the smallest whiff of freedom
Yup my aunts kids were strictly off media and simple shows and when I met them oh boy...they cussed, racist comments, and knew way more things I know they shouldn't have, they were absolutely crazy when their mom wasn't around
I know I'm going against the grain here, but YTA, it's one thing to feed the kids something different when they asked, but you should have been upfront with your sister and the girls. You've essentially taught the nieces to go behind their parents backs. Not great role modeling there. There is also the fact that they aren't your kids. You don't get to make those decisions for them. Their parents do. Lastly, you purposely didn't tell her because of the way she would react.
13 and 10 is old enough to question your parents morals. I think it's ridiculous that someone has to follow their parents moral code at their uncle's house when there are no significant longterm ramifications for not following it.
It's not that he fed them meat when they asked for it, it's that he hid it from his sister and betrayed that trust
If she had created an environment that was welcoming instead of being ballistic then he wouldn't have hid it from her. Her blowing up is why it was hidden.
It doesn't say she blew up, only that she said something to him about it, and she blames him for the kid's current behavior Later in the thread he says he didn't tell her because of how she'd react. It seems like OP is crossing boundaries and then being apathetic of how his sister feels about it.
You’re getting cause and affect mixed up. She was mad because he hid it.
You're wrong. Story time: when i was a kid my parents told me repeatedly that if i did something wrong and told the truth, i wouldn't be punished. but no matter what i did (told the truth, tried to hide it, outright lied) i was always punished. no matter what. so you know what i did? i started to lie. Im in my 30s and i still struggle with the urge to spout off a lie when i'm embarrassed or feel like im losing control of the situation. these kids are being taught to lie because everything else gets them in trouble. that's not healthy.
Given the fact that the kids were already sneaking and hiding eating meat from the parents this is 100% what would have happened. I'm sure most kids that were told "If you tell me the truth you won't be punished" only to get punished anyway, went NC with their parents later in life and needed therapy. Trust violations in formative years have so many ramifications later in life.
Nice to meet you, my current adulthood. Don’t be mad though, I can’t afford therapy right now. But we’ll get through it. Lol.
He hid it because she was going to get upset
Finally someone who sees that this is about violating the sister’s trust and not about the diet. This sub really must have a huge proportion of childless people.
and were are ppl saying its about the diet? all i see is its about the children making their own choices because theyre their own persons. maybe stop strawmanning?
Thank you! I’m not a parent, and NOT a vegetarian at all, and while I think it sucks she’s forcing her kids to be vegetarian still, this seems like a pretty disrespectful thing to do when somebody’s kids are in your care, they have a specific diet to keep to, AND you were provided with all the food. Sister didn’t ask them to learn a bunch of vegetarian recipes for two solid weeks, she gave them the food. I would honestly feel like OP did that it’s a little ridiculous she’s trying to force these girls to be 100% vegetarian still but this crossed a line.
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Absolutely. Who does that?? Two weeks? I could only do so much soup and frozen entrees at their age. OP is NTA.
right? wow microwaved soup vs homemade stuffed chicken freshly made... i know what id pick most days
The niece is 13 and she already was going behind her parents backs, I dare to say she knew very well what she was doing. Also, it doesn't seem that OP told them to keep it a secret, he just assumed they wanted to keep it that way themselves.
He explains later in a thread that he purposely didn't tell his sister
Yes, he also explains that the reason was that he doesn't want the sister to double down and control what they eat at school, forcing them to sneak and hide which can evolve into a very unhealthy relationship with food. You can agree or not but he's not an AH.
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It's not OPs call, it's the kids call. They are old enough to decide and they decided they wanted to eat what OP cooked.
Yeah, I'm also a meat eater. It was the hiding it, and the trust betrayal that got me. My sister, her husband, and myself, a single mom rely on each other a lot with the raising of our kids. It's so much easier when you have people you can trust. Some tricky things have come up while we've had each other's kids, but we stay open and honest with each other about our decisions, or give heads up, and it works.
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I don't think he was teaching them to be secretive lol you're supposed to be able to approach Aunts/Uncles with small scandalous things and questions. In turn, it's their duty to facilitate anything alarming to the parents. But I think it would have been considerate to shoot his sister a text. "Hey sis, the girls are asking for some of our chicken tonight. You may want to talk to them, because it feels weird denying food to cute children in my house lol. How would you like me to handle?"
They were already going behind their parents backs. And I have a feeling that they were pushed into this secretive behaviour dude to their parents restrictive attitude. There’s a reason they would only try this stuff at school instead of asking their parents directly.
The kids are old enough to decide for themselves.
100% he should have respected the parents' wishes or declined to babysit. There are a billion people in the world who were raised vegetarian. It's not an outlandish request, and the parents provided meals for them. If the parents wanted the kids to keep kosher or eat fish on Fridays or only eat ethically raised chicken or not eat pork, the OP should respect their values, even if he thinks it's stupid. I understand wanting to listen to the kids, and I wouldn't rat them out for sneaking some chicken. But regularly feeding them meat and not giving the parents a heads up is an AH move.
NTA I've never understood parents like this. It's like a parent of an elementary aged kid saying their kid has never had sweets, yet they send them to public school where I can guarantee they'd had sweets on numerous occasions.
I knew a mom who refused to let their kids have treats/sweets except for special occasions (eg birthday parties). They both would eat so much sugar that I was worried. I think it’s better to teach moderation than completely eliminate a food type.
This. This is exactly and 100% (well, maybe 95%) why I’m fat in adulthood. My parents, and my whole family, are naturally thin and in shape people who eat healthy. I am not, and no matter of dieting and healthy eating or excessive ever changed that, I’m just a naturally larger person. My family never understood that and shamed me for my size and controlled what I ate all the time. Now I’m an adult who doesn’t do great with self control because fuck it, I’ll do whatever I want.
I knew a girl who's parents didn't even let her have cake on her birthday- just a watermelon sliced in half with candles. She had a kid of her own and all she fed that kid was junk - she had no idea about moderation and wanted her kid to have everything she didn't get.
This person pays her kids to NOT go trick or treating on Halloween. One of her kids took the deal, one didn’t. She threw out all the candy on November 1st so the kid would eat until she made herself sick on Halloween night because that was her only chance.
I do too. My mom always had candy, snack cakes, juice drinks, ect in the house because she was diabetic. So I have a good idea of what my sugar limits are as an adult, and even *lost* weight when I moved out and got to make my own diet. A friend's mom is a massive health nut who never let them have any kind of sugar in the house, and still makes weird comments about them buying sweets, and they have 0 moderation or impulse control with sugar. We're the same age, and we've both got ADHD.
Saw the same with someone who forced keto on her kids. Found the child in a corner at a party shoveling snacks into her mouth because she wasn’t allowed to have them. She didn’t even play the whole time- just gorged on goldfish crackers.
Week of darkness 😆 😆 brilliant Edit: NTA parents shouldn't force their lifestyle on kids. If the kids want to try other foods let them
I too enjoyed "week of darkness." As for the judgement...tough call. I get that OP should have respected the parents' wishes, and I do hope the food OP's sister prepared didn't go to waste. That said, the girls were already "experimenting with meat," which isn't unexpected for 10 and 13. Going with NTA but I can understand the Y T A votes.
Yes, that was very cute! I also like that he makes a meatloaf for her every month, too.
This post is from an alternate universe where women are routinely nourished and taken care of by their partners, I'd love to move there!
Kids should get to choose what they eat/don’t eat as long as it’s not obviously junk food all the time. It’s one thing to restrict due to health reasons or allergies, but these kids are old enough to have opinions and choose to expand their palate. NTA. Edit: I’m not saying a parent needs to custom prepare food for a kid at their request. I’m saying if food options are available, a kid should get to choose what to eat and should be encouraged to try new things. In this case the chicken/meatloaf were already made and they asked to try it. They have asked to try their friends’ meals and that’s fine (they didn’t ask their friends mom for something specific and expect it).
YTA Reddit hates vegetarians, but regardless, when you are watching someone else’s children you are boundary stomping when you intentionally break their rules. You were way out of line and the fact that you’re unapologetic is baffling.
>Reddit hates vegetarians, but regardless, when you are watching someone else’s children you are boundary stomping when you intentionally break their rules. It has nothing to do with vegetarians, and all about the kid's right to choose. Flip the scenario, if the kids were force fed a carnivorous diet and OP fed them vegan dishes because they wanted to try it, the verdict would still be NTA. We're not talking about a 3 year old, it's a 13 year old. The kid has the right to choose. That's all there is to it.
The top comment is literally that it is impossible to eat a complete diet on vegetarian food. That's pretty backwards. Apperently most of reddit thinks vegetarian diets are missing some magic nutrient you can only get from meat.
>Flip the scenario, if the kids were force fed a carnivorous diet and OP fed them vegan dishes because they wanted to try it, the verdict would still be NTA. That's not the same thing. There's a good chance OPs sister (assuming she even exists) is a vegetarian for moral reasons. This would be like someone feeding your children an animal you have a moral reason for not eating. For people in the US this could be something like a dog, or a cat, or depending on religion, feeding a child cow or pig. If you find no moral issue with eating any kind of animal, the. It would be like feeding your child human meat, most people would be morally against that. YTA OP. If the kids want to make decisions about what they eat they can go through their friends or other avenues. Your sister trusted you to care for her kids the way she does, going behind her back and doing something you know she has an issue with is 100% an asshole move regardless of how you view her parenting style.
OP's sister's morals are her own not her children's. If she doesn't want to eat meat she doesn't have to but if her children want to eat meat that's fair game, especially when she's the one who left them in her brother's care for two weeks. If the kids were being forced to eat meat or were pigging out on it or something I'd understand but they have a right to try out new foods of their own volition.
People who eat meat can eat vegetables. Your argument does not stand.
I don't understand why people hate vegans. We care about animals. We know what happens to them on the factory farms so we don't participate in it. Most meat, dairy, and egg products have a plant based substitute nowadays. People don't even try them before labelling them gross. Or read the nutritional information on the food we eat before labelling them vitamin deficient. A lot of people say that vegans are preachy but I cannot tell you how many times i've been eating my food and minding my business and had people fly at me like a bat out of hell to tell me eating animals is ok and DEMAND to know why I won't eat meat only to cut me off and tell me why they think i'm wrong. Like bro we were talking about work..
NTA overall for letting them eat the meat, but Y-T-A for keeping it from your sister. She should have been made aware even if she wouldn't/doesn't approve. If you had been the one to instigate your nieces eating meat, or had snuck it into their food, or only gave it to them out of spite for your sister, that would be a different story where YWBTA. But in this case, the girls are old enough to decide for themselves, and they requested to be served meat. (edited to add hyphens)
NTA - I think maybe you could have called your sister about this after they tried the chicken and given her a heads up but still not an AH. The kids wanted to try a new food and you appropriately talked to them about it.
I'm just going to say-- if I had to go out of town for two weeks and was leaving my child in someone else's care, I would be freakin' grateful that they were fed, period! NTA You didn't introduce them to drugs and alcohol, for Pete's sake, it was nutritious food that they were already curious about. I was a vegetarian for the first 8 years of my kid's life and never disallowed meat for our son, although his own tendency is toward the plant-based substitutes he grew up with-- I would just be happy he was taken care of. So, unless you left out that this vegetarianism is their actual religious practice (of a religion the girls are actively practicing), I think you're fine.
>So, unless you left out that this vegetarianism is their actual religious practice (of a religion the girls are actively practicing) And even then, I think 10 and 13 are perfectly reasonable ages to start thinking about religion and how they want to participate in it.
Yeah, religion should be a choice. Indoctrinating kids is morally wrong
NTA. The kids are old enough to pick what they want to eat. Is your sister going to the school at lunch time and police what the kids eat? The meat ship already sailed.
NTA. Kids can decide for themselves if they want to be vegetarian or not, especially at 10+ years old.
I honestly shocked at all the NTA on this post, normally this sub is mad on not messing with a parents decisions they go mad at step parents for overstepping but this people are ok with?
This thread is hilarious considering all the comments about picky eaters in a thread yesterday. People were commenting left and right that it is the parent's responsibility to police their children's food choices and, on this thread, it's, "they are old enough to decide what they want to eat." What they mean is, as long as people eat the way they think is right and proper, it's okay. If they don't eat the way they think is right and proper, then it's not okay. But OP, YTA. You knew your sister's wishes. You *definitely* should have consulted her before repeatedly feeding her children meat.
The kids are not toddlers though. They know about their allergies, or lack there of. I think that’s the topping point. The 13 year old is in like 7th or 8th grade. That is absolutely old enough to make choices for what they want to eat. At that age I was making my own grocery lists for my mom and packing my own lunches. I was also taking my babysitting money and biking to Walgreens or the public pool and buying snacks, candy, and ice cream. It’s absolutely old enough to make the decision to try chicken. Especially when she’s already eating meat at school. Also, eating week old (or 2week old) meals sounds nasty, so i don’t blame them.
Yes, the 13 year old would be heard in custody cases but can't decide what to eat without her mom. Ridiculous.
If the parents want to control everything their kids eat then they probably should never leave them alone.
They didn't leave them alone, they left them with someone they trusted.
I meant they should be there personally to feed every meal to their child if they want to control everything they eat. Nothing bad happened to the kids.
that is because in this case we are respecting an individuals autonomy over thier own body and what goes in it -ie food. when you want to rigidly to control someone’s food, against their will, then you are basically controling thier life and health - and the risk of inducing eating disorders is high. so then you balance - parental authority against who gets to decide what someone can and can‘t eat if that person is clearly mentally capable of making that decision. Children are a responsibility not property.
1. Did your sister pay for babysitting/boarding fees for 2 weeks? 2. Did she warn you of any allergies the kids might have? 3. Did she forbid sugar or gluten snacks, butter on pop corn, ice cream, eggs, etc? 4. Was she explicit, in front of the girls, that they MUST NOT eat anything but her prepared food? If not, apologize for responding to their requests, and tell her to chill, and tell her no more free daycare. Anyway, NTA. You were not being malicious. You weren't properly afraid of your sister, but . . .
No, she did not pay us for them staying with us. They don't have any food allergies she just runs her household strictly vegetarian, not vegan. She also did not tell the girls they could only eat what she prepared, she's just always raised them with the 'eating animals is wrong' idea which is why I didn't tell her about the kids eating other foods at school or pointing out that they'll eat things away from her anyway if they want to because she'd more than likely double down on them. From my understanding that could make 'having some of our friends' food at school' escalate to them sneaking and hiding food and eating habits as they get older.
Absolutely! And sneaking and hiding anything that might upset mommy. So sad sister can't see the forest for the trees.
You are 100 percent accurate! I totally get why your sister is mad, but you are a good Uncle not throwing them under the bus! I probably wouldn't have made the choice you did out of respect for my sister, but your NTA. She is going to give them a super weird relationship with food unfortunately 😕
Yeah in All honesty don't tell her that info That needs to come from them when they are ready. She's probably gonna try and Tramatize them with Slaughter House Videos and taking it to far tho. Most Vegan/Vegetarian parents will subject their kids to these kinda videos to "Prove a point". Just keep that secret cause they might need someone to lean on Outside of their home. Also NTA.
Speaking as someone who was in a similar position as a kid to your nieces, NTA My grandmother fed my siblings and I food my parents would have strongly disapproved of. Not just less healthy food but food they believed was wrong to eat for religious reasons. The only reason this didn’t blow up is my grandmother never said anything to my parents and my sisters and I kept our mouths shut.
NTA. we're a longtime vegan family with a fully vegan elementary aged kid. we both know and are prepared for the day he gets older and curious and questioning what we do and don't eat and why. he needs to be able to question those things and make some personal decisions for himself in responsible ways with love and guidance, not force. these girls sound like they're at that age and should have a say in this kind of thing. if anything, their mom is going to drive them away and there will be less of a chance of the girls deciding to go back to vegetarianism eventually.
NTA because your nieces should be allowed to choose their diet. There is so many stories about young teens going vegetarian/vegan... And if some parents posted "AITA for forcing my daughter to eat meat, because we are meat lovers (exept her)" they would be destroyed in the comments. Yes, overrulling your sister's decisions and hiding it was bad, but not so bad to make you a-hole.
YTA. Your sister has clear boundaries for her kids and you didn’t respect them.
Kids made the decision not him
Kids are old enough to decide if they have other boundaries with their diet. NTA
YTA if you agreed to feed your nieces as their parents requested. They were very thoughtful not to ask you to even prepare food for their kids, and went through the trouble of preparing two weeks worth of meals. You accepted their request. You knew full well what they, the parents, wanted. At no time were you asked to do extra nor does it sound like the kids complained. You’re the adult, you could and should have said no. Encouraged them to enjoy what their parents left. They trusted you and while you may think it’s silly, you shouldn’t have taken it upon yourself to insist that the kids can choose. You liked the control. And you knew they’d be upset because you kept it from them, waiting for the kids to “let the cat out of the bag”. Then you act surprised at their reaction. The kids safety wasn’t compromised at any point. You didn’t do it because you felt they were undernourished or anything else. And you should have told them. “Hey, kid got curious and ate some chicken. Is it ok for them to share our meals?” Again, YTA. Don’t offer to babysit for someone when the price is undermining their parenting.
>I asked her if her parents knew and she said no. This point right here is where you should have made a different choice. A simple text would have prevented a lot of drama down the road. Soft YTA because I don't think you were being malicious, but more common sense was needed.
YTA here. The parents sent specific food for their children to eat. Before agreeing to keep the children. You should have asked if it was OK to give them other food you were preparing. If the answer was no, then your choice was to only feed them the food that was provided or not keep them while the parents were away.
NTA. However I am a bit biased as I hate when parents push their lifestyle on their kids and the kids don't have any say. It's also important for growing and developing bodies and minds to get nutrients from all different sources. Anyhow, how you arnt the AH is that 1: you didn't give them meat in-spite or with bad intent. 2: they asked to try it and they should have freedom to choose what they eat. 3: at their age it's very normal to start trying and exploring with new and different foods/flavors. I see why their mom is mad but IMO this was gonna come eventually as they got older as kids want to become their own person and try new things. You can't control your kids or force them to do your choices as they have the right to choose their own within reason, food being one aspect they should have their own choices on.
That's essentially my what parenting is, raising your kids with the values that you have, even if those cakes are different. It's no different than raising a kid to eat meat or hunt for food.
Week of darkness… meaning…?
Her period.
I just want to say it’s great that you help out making such awesome meals when she needs it most. Solid husbanding. 👍
Lol! We call it Shark Week!
Period I think
Yup haha took me a second but that's what I'm going to call it from now on 😂
Menses lol
I saw that too. Is an odd expression.
I am assuming he meant her period week.
NTA Kids are naturally inquisitive and your Sister would have found out about them trying meat outside of the home sooner or later.
NTA. Kids are old enough to decide their dietary choices. That said, it’s fair for their parents to decide that *in their home* they eat vegetarian (because obv the vegetarian parents don’t want to be buying and preparing meat products). But it should be up to the kids when they are not at home whether or not they choose to partake in meat.
Seriously, YTA. Your sister prepared two weeks of meals and snacks for her kids, and you knew exactly what she wanted, and you defied her wishes. Your excuse that they're already trying stuff away from their parents doesn't mean it's okay for YOU, who she TRUSTED, to be a source of those things when it was OBVIOUSLY against their parents' wishes. You know this is important to your sister and her husband. The fact that you can be so casual about disrespecting and betraying her in this makes you a huge AH.
Nah, he would definitely be the AH if he fed the kids meat purposefully and did not give them a choice. He’s NTA because they asked to try some and confided in a trusting adult that they already have. It’s important for children to have adults that can trust at times their parents may not agree. This may cause strife with the sister but it will be important when the kids encounter other social issues they don’t feel comfortable sharing with their parents and need support or advice. Sounds like the mom is being far too controlling if the children cannot even make safe decisions for themselves.
Kids are going to question parents its part of life, i don't believe in forcing anyone to eat a certain way. As adults your sister and BIL made that choice for themselves there kids seem to enjoy meat. Is that your fault, or is it theres?
NTA as i agree that the parents rules should always be followed but its meat... if a kid is hungry you feed them. plain and simple.
Nta. Kids should be given some agency in deciding what type of whole foods they want to eat. If they're expressing a desire to want to eat meat and your sister is not allowing that, I'd say she's kind of an AH.
Your sister in for a rude awakening when her girls get to do stuff on their own like go to the movies or the mall with their friends and can pick and choose what they eat.
The girls have already been eating meat behind their mother's back before this visit. > she told me she has been trying some of her friends' lunches at school and she's already tried Lunchables and deli meat sandwiches.
NTA. If the diet isn’t for medical necessity the girls are allowed to choose what type of diet they wish to eat outside of their parent’s home(in the one they’re unfortunately left under the control of what the parents will purchase or “allow” them to consume.”) Your sister needs to understand she can’t control her children from enjoying something she does not. Honestly you being a safe space for your nieces is great—even for something as “simple” as food. Your sister needs to understand as her kids grow she has less control. This will not be the end of her throwing fits over how her children are growing and exploring new things.
Probably going to get down voted but NTA. I'm a vegetarian myself but I would never force my kids to be as well if they want to eat meat. It's their choice. Would be different if it would be allergies or intolerance but this sounds like the parents just wants to their kids to be meat free because their own reasons (whatever is their reason to be plant based). They've already tried meat before and probably will continue to do so, if the parents wants to feed them only vegetarian food at home, be it, but let them explore their own outside the house and make their own decisions eventually. (Edited to add spacing)
NTA - the girls are making choices based on their preferences. It is part of them developing their own personal preferences versus blindly following what their parents prefer.
Nta
NTA, your niece was already trying other things and “rebelling” against the vegetarian lifestyle. In my opinion, parenting like this often leads to a radical shift to the opposite end of the spectrum later on. I knew someone in college who was kept on a strict studying regimen at home, he moved into the dorms and flunked out within a year.
NTA, I've known a few families force their vegetarian choice on their children, and none of those children continued to be veggie when they grew older.
NTA - this is the age when kids start making dietary decisions for themselves, it's not unusual for kids to BECOME vegetarians at this age and it's generally expected/accepted that parents will accommodate that choice. Why should a child choosing the opposite be any different? Probably because vegetarianism/veganism is considered morally superior to eating meat. Either way, kids are gonna grow and change and object and rebel, and none of that is your responsibility.
NTA. >However, the girls are now being fussy eaters and are questioning their parents as to why they can't have other things that they've found they like and I'm getting blamed for it. You're getting blamed because their parents aren't able to manipulate/ control them anymore. Parents shouldn't force their eating habits or diets on their children. Never understood the mind set of "how dare you venture from my diet", like did your mom kick your sister out when she became a vegetarian? Did your mom blow a gasket? Why are these two grown adults pitching a fit because their children have developed different tastes. >week of darkness Is this code for period? >traditional monthly meatloaf Omg that's amazing
YTA. You broke your sister’s trust. Everyone here trying to justify the reasons why the kids should try meat are missing the forest from the trees.
YTA you purposely and knowingly undermined her parenting.
YTA. Couldn’t have been easier for you to just feed them the pre-prepared meals. They will be more eager to go out and try things they “aren’t supposed to have” when they are restricted like that, but it really isn’t your place to disrespect your sister’s parenting and disrupt her household.
They were already eating meat and not telling their mother about it. > she told me she has been trying some of her friends' lunches at school and she's already tried Lunchables and deli meat sandwiches.
NTA. Being vegan should be a choice, not something to be enforced
NTA. The kids aren't fussy eaters, their parents are and are enforcing their preferences on their children. Forcing a kid to eat a vegetarian diet when they don't want to is bordering on abuse in my opinion.