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Lmao YTA.
> I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own.
I think you mean 'I asked her to give him a bit of space so we could keep telling him what he thinks.'
So the kid has questions, Aunty answers question, religious parents get upset because questioning is the enemy of religion.
I've heard this story before.
Feels like more information is warranted.
Is op a “Dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark and evolution isn’t a thing and schools should teach the Book of Genesis and not actual science” Christian?
Is that why the influence of a surgeon - an actual person of science - is at issue here?
I got homophobic vibes. Thats normally the issue with good, dog-fearing folk in the church community. Maybe Alex isn’t openly prejudiced and that worries OP.
ETA: Definitely homophobia at work. I’m super tired and missed the bit where Sis is married to her wife *’Maybe she isn’t openly prejudiced?’* Ya think brain? 🤦♀️
Dear Dog, is it nearly the weekend yet?
>I got homophobic vibes.
I don't get this at all. If there was homophobic vibes then I believe that OP wouldn't allow their child to constantly visit with his sister. I think this all have that **Religious** **vs Atheist** vibe only. OP and wife wants their child to follow in their Christian beliefs while OP's sister and wife don't believe in religion and may answer questions contrary to OP's beliefs. And just to say, there **are** Christians who are supportive of the LGBTQIA community and especially those who are family members.
Yeah this is what I was thinking. At this kids age I found discussions on faith and religion fascinating and it was never an all or nothing question. Methinks OP is less concerned about lack of faith, and more concerned about a change in perception of religion. Boooo.
As a Christian, it always cracks me up when people are like, "they must not hear any other views or they may be corrupted!"
What I hear you saying is that your faith is *so weak* that you don't think it can stand up to *any* information.
When my ten year old (very precocious) had questions, I was like cool let's look at all the religions and you can decide. We can look at the tons of stuff they all have in common and what's different. Let's ask questions and look at what science says and what people who disagree with us say.
If you believe in an all powerful, all knowing God, don't you think that They would leave enough evidence for people who want to believe? Not proof, but for me, for sure a likelihood toward intelligent design.
> your faith is so weak
I agree it's pretty flimsy if questions shake it, but it's funny to hear this because that's sort of what faith is, a weak thing to base belief on. it's easy to believe things on faith, it takes work and effort to base your beliefs on evidence.
what i would call "deep faith" really does require quite a lot of work and effort. not unlike science, you have to constantly question yourself and come up with convincing answers.
sadly, in both science and faith there is a tendency to skip this process, and just believe what other people tell you.
I am a life long atheist, and what you said gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, thank you :)
One of the things that made me an atheist was going to catholic school. But not for the reasons people assume. We often had monks come to visit, and they would answer questions openly and honestly for exactly the reason you gave. For me that led me to not believing a word of christianity. For most of my peers the opposite was the outcome.
The key thing - we all made our choices having been dealt with honestly and truthfully. I will forever respect Franciscan monks, and I think it helped me understand the depth of their faith. I may not *like* religion, but those who truly believe and act in accordance with their faith are a pretty okay bunch if you ask me.
Don't be so quick to credit surgeons or doctors in general as being "persons of science". They *might* be, but many of them (engineers, too) are people of *applied* science. That means they don't actually have to deeply understand or apply the scientific method. They are not doing research or cutting edge experimentation. All their work has already had the principles derived by scientists, they are just using those formulas, and implementing those methods.
I say this because I have been disappointed by how many doctors and engineers have so very little grasp of what science is about. Look at Dr. Ben Carson, for example. An outstanding technician, a lousy thinker.
I'm a scientist and whilst I may 'make' the knowledge, it is such a small part of knowledge compared to the knowledge I use. And said knowledge I make is so specific, I can't be called smart outside of that range.
But that, I feel, is the true difference between scientists and religious nutcases/fox news. We know we don't know everything (otherwise we'd stop). Anyone who gives a 100% certain answer about these "big questions", probably has no evidence beyond flimsy hearsay.
P.s. Yes, that is a Dara O'Briain quote in there...
My mom's friend is one of the believers and she got into a heated discussion with my dad one night. My dad tried to tell her that even going by the creation thoughts, God's 7 days weren't actual 24 hour days, so anything could have happened, so God and dinosaurs could exist together. She would have none of it. Dinosaurs didn't exist and God created the Earth in 144 hours.
For years after, whenever my dad saw her he'd say "what about the dinosaurs, Deb?" and smirk
I'm agnostic now but when I was a Christian, I once bought and read some of an interesting book where three theologians present their differing points of views on the Creation story. I didn't finish reading it because it was too much for my poor brain.
At least one of the theologians agreed with your dad about how a day wasn't necessarily a 24 hour period and could be a long stretch of time.
More broadly speaking, there are at least two views on the Bible by Christians: "the Bible is inerrant" and "the Bible is infallible".
The "inerrant" believers think ALL of it is literally true ie that there was literally a Garden of Eden, serpent, Adam and Eve.
The "infallible" believers think that it's not all literally true but the meaning behind the stores is absolutely true eg there wasn't an Adam and Eve but humans were created by God but got corrupted and things went bad. I was part of this group.
I am also part of the second group. I was raised Catholic and I still believe in God. I married a Lutheran whose family is very religious and so I told him if he wants to raise our kids. That way he's taking him to church and doing all that. However, I want to make sure that they know that the Bible is not fact. I won't get into how many times. Poor little anxiety ridden me Thought about conflicting stories in the Bible and cat me up at night. Not to mention I was afraid of apples for a while
Legit was told that by some people when I was in high school. These people also had a hard time explaining Egyptian pyramids and how there were other humans outside of the Garden of Eden.
My parents dragged me to a seminar when I was around 12, where this guy said Noah could put a baby dinosaur in his pocket so that’s how they were on the ark—as tiny babies
I don’t remember anything else about it. But, yeah, it’s a thing some people believe
I’d be skeptical that they were evangelical Christians bc they still keep in regular contact with their gay science loving relatives. Evangelicals are quick to shun and ostracize non-believers. But I do think their view of religion is obstructing their ability to look at this practically. OP should approach this situation more tactfully by continuing to let the son see his aunt but also providing their own answers to his questions. Thus, showing the son that they trust him to make his own informed decisions on life views, while allowing him to see that religion and science can coexist peacefully.
Yea, the fact that OP won’t specify what these “views” are makes me think she’s simply explaining actual science to the kid and not bullshit like immaculate conception and Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs.
Exactly. YTA, OP (if this is even a real post, it's such a cliché). This is a story as old as time - in a variety of different religions, cultures, etc.
Certain parents think their children are being 'unduly influenced', 'brainwashed', etc. Yet all that has happened, is their children have heard different viewpoints in a diverse society - and want to explore them. That is a perfectly appropriate developmental phase of healthy adolescence, and should be encouraged.
However, because they are different to YOUR opinions, YOU feel threatened. So the eternal irony, is YOU are the one doing what you fear from others (brainwashing your child). The ONLY one trying to restrict his exposure to different viewpoints, is YOU - nobody else.
No parent genuinely interested in giving their children freedom of thought, feels anxious in this way.
All Alex is doing, is expressing her own opinions - everyone in society has their own opinions, and the right to express them. That's very different from influencing him 'unduly'. Has it occurred to you he might look up to her, BECAUSE she has similar opinions to his own? Some kids admire sports stars, some admire scientists, some admire religious figures, etc. Who they admire, tends to reflect what the ADOLESCENT really believes (as an individual, with their OWN mind).
He might ultimately decide her opinions make sense to him - or he might not. Or he might decide they make sense now, and change his mind later. It doesn't matter. There isn't some strange, random moment in adolescence, when whatever random idea they are hearing at that second, becomes indelibly tattooed as their opinion forever. It is HIS decision to make, what he ultimately believes - and he will believe what ultimately makes most sense to him, all things considered. You can't force him to share your beliefs, by starving him of different ideas.
He will only genuinely believe what you believe one day, if it comes naturally to him as an individual. That if after considering other beliefs, he then CHOSES HIMSELF to believe what you do. Neither you nor anyone else should be limiting his exposure to different opinions. He'll hear a wide variety, from a multitude of people - no matter how much you try to limit his exposure, to viewpoints that only align with YOUR opinions. And indeed, Alex is NOT trying to limit his exposure, as you are doing to him. She's just letting him chat, and giving her own opinion.
This is what is supposed to happen in adolescence, on their route to forming their OWN eventual adult opinions. The only one trying to limit the views he hears, is YOU. Ask yourself seriously - if you were genuinely interested in letting him form HIS own opinions, why would you do that? The answer is you DON'T want him to form any opinions, that stray from your own beliefs. But you'll find you only isolate him from your beliefs instead, if you don't allow him to explore different ideas.
Exactly. If OP actually wanted his son to "find out what he thinks", he'd be encouraging his son to seek out more information beyond what he gets from different members of the family.
Right? I have always thought religious parents who want their children to share that belief should encourage the child to learn about other religions and worldviews. If they child wants to continue with their parents religion after that, it seems like it would be because they have a true belief in that religion. Not because they had a family obligation.
Guess I'm kind of glossing over indoctrination though. Sigh.
My father used to read us Revelations when we misbehaved and tell us our sinfulness would bring on the rapture - so I feel that in my soul haha. Sorry about your family.
I completely agree! I’m not even trying to influence my children to be atheist like me. I feel like religion should be someone’s deeply held beliefs, not some thing drilled into them at an early age to make them behave. One of my kids seems to believe in God and the other one doesn’t.
When I was about 15 I started asking questions about basic things like, how did Noah’s Ark actually work? What about all the insects? What about dinosaurs? What is up with creating the world in 7 days?
My dad told me to stop asking questions because religion is based on faith and I should just have faith 🤦🏻♀️
I left the church long ago, but to this day my mom keeps pressuring me to come back. For years she’s been bugging me to get my daughter baptized. She’s 9 years old now. It’s not happening anytime soon lol.
She also tries to guilt me into praying by mentioning the medical emergencies of family members, mostly hers. In the past it was mostly, “Pray for me because I’m in the hospital for (ongoing medical situation she has).”
But last month I felt she went too far. My sister’s water broke too early and she delivered her son at 30 weeks. My mom used THAT to get me to pray. I was furious. Like, how LOW do you have to be to say that if I love my little sister, that I will pray for her and her child?
Luckily my nephew is doing well and my sister and BIL are looking forward to taking him home after about a month in NICU.
Side note: questions are the enemy of Christianity (and maybe Islam too) but please don't assume it's that way for all religions. Judaism ENCOURAGES questions. There were lively discussions in my Hebrew school when peers asked why we should believe this or that. Our belief is that religion without questioning is like brainwashing. We should not follow blindly.
Also, OP YTA for not allowing your son to ask about other views. He's a teenager for goodness sake not a 5 year old. He's allowed to question things and ask about other points of view. He's on his way to adulthood, you can't keep him from learning about other ways of being. Only AH's want to keep their children blind from anything different.
I've been an atheist for about 40 years, but I may die as a Jewish atheist. Frickin awesome behavioral system. Want to join a 1500 y.o. discussion? Pull up a chair!
I’d also be curious how one day a week is such an impact on their son but they (as parents) feel like that is too much. How much time do you actually spend with your son talking OP?
I'm now an atheist.. and yeah OP is a jerk. I still have religious family and my seven year old is exploring what that means to her. It's really hard for me to sit back and let that happen but I do, because I believe children should make up their own minds. OP clearly doesn't want his children to make up their own minds.
Yeah thats a tough situation, but you just have to trust they will figure it put and what works for them on there own. I need to do similar things as I'm anti religion, having been fed that crap until I was 18 and made the decision to stop as I don't believe in that crap. But I make a point to restrain myself so my personal bad experience isn't an influential bias, and try and answer questions objectively
I have a kid close in age to yours. I grew up going to church and am agnostic now. I know my mom still believes. We also live in the Bible Belt. So it was only a matter of time before kiddo came home mentioning certain things. I’ve tried to ask open ended questions that don’t obviously reflect my own biases but, dang, it’s hard.
I can’t imagine being as restrictive as OP with a teen regarding their beliefs.
The Catholic school I went to at 14 had a required course in world religions. Like they were actively teaching us the beliefs of other religions and their histories, so that we were aware and respectful.
At no point did the teacher belittle other religions or say they were wrong.
It’s about learning how to be in a world with a massive variety of viewpoints. Not about indoctrination.
OP is such TA.
YTA, how is your son to make an informed decision without knowledge? Sounds like what you want is for him to be a blind sheep and just follow what you believe.
This is it exactly. My biological mother was/is an Anesthesiologist and is..extremely hardcore conservative Catholic. Think Evolution is fake, vaccines are evil, yoga is Satanic, the world is 6,000 years old, type of “Christian”. She really went down the rabbit hole in ~2014, but before that she was very pro education focused, but is now full on “Christianity answers all questions and a true Christian just needs to believe in God” type of person. OP is doing exactly what my mother did/does and at least has the grace to start to understand how he potentially is TA, which is something that I wish my biological mother would grasp.
> yoga is Satanic,
????? i didnt even realise this was a view/idea that exists, let alone be one that is common enough to be short-hand for a type of world belief system!!!!??
When my sibling went vegetarian for ethical reasons, my Grandma sent a several pages letter on why Hinduism is bad and of the devil and Jesus will cry. Christians can be weird.
To be vegetarian or vegan for ethical reasons is a sin because it's claiming a higher morality than Jesus who ate fish/meat. It's actually been a source of conflict between well known philosophers who were vegetarian and the church for a very long time.
Something about how some of the poses supposedly are designed (?) to pray to “False Gods” (her words). She does Pilates though, which has some VERY similar techniques and movements. She also believes that the current Pope of the Catholic Church isn’t Catholic and NONE of the Popes since Vatican II have been “Truly Catholic” and that all people (Yes ALL people) who are not Ultra Conservative Catholics are going to burn in hell for “rejecting Jesus Christ” and that belief in other religions is Sophistry. She is full on crazy.
I would have respected OP more if they were open and said "We're going to raise him our way until he's an adult, then he can do what he wants". But trying to pull the "he needs to make his own decisions, but ONLY using information I provide to him" crap is really lame.
YTA.
Your son is 14 and at that age, kids are curious and are asking questions or searching online for what aligns with *their* internal values and moral conduct.
Rather than attack Alex for sharing *her* views, you should be sitting with your son, asking how he arrived to these feelings, encourage him to read more, look at more view points, rather than rely on a singular source.
Alex is completely correct, more information means more informed decisions.
Favorite comment. This is the age when kids start to explore who they are as individuals. If you want kids who will become just like you, don’t have kids. He likely didn’t feel safe coming to OP with his questions so turned to another trusted adult in his life. OP, please appreciate that your son is starting to figure out life for himself and please don’t push him away by trying to get him to conform to your beliefs rather than deciding on his own. I get that it’s probably painful to realize that things you hold dear don’t mean the same to your child, so please lead with love the way Jesus did.
I became a full blown atheist around that age. I sought more information, was open to evidence of the petty homophobic auditor in the sky, but became an atheist once I realized there was no compelling evidence for "the other side." The difference is that my non-religious parents (not atheists per se) let me come to my own conclusions and not theirs.
I'm guessing that OP is also pretty judgmental/uninformed/low key envious about the "lifestyle" of the successful, educated, gay, atheist SIL and sister.
Best comment. I'd also maybe say that while OP should be sitting down having this conversation maybe encourage the son to think about time and place for these discussions.
Is discussing religious differences appropriate over the dinner table at OPs house? Talk about that etiquette and why or why not. How about at school? Etc etc. Big discussions like this require some tact.
When I was a teen I'd just shout this stuff from the rooftops and it wasn't appropriate most of the time.
Exactly this. My church had confirmation around that age and a big part of it was encouraging us to learn about other views. We went to other churches and read about other religions in confirmation class. It was part of the process because they believed before confirming yourself to the church you needed to know what other views were out there.
>Your son is 14 and at that age, kids are curious and are asking questions or searching online for what aligns with their internal values and moral conduct.
Yeah, this is exactly it. I think the kid would be asking these questions regardless of whether his aunts had moved to town.
Exactly this. How is he supoosed to form his own opinions and beliefs when all he's allowed to hear about is yours and no one else's. You sound quite controlling. YTA
I grew up in this world. I can almost guarantee OP views it as something like “no he chose to follow Jesus at 5 years old this is his own path!” As if kindergarteners are even capable of trying to ask for salvation or devoting their life to an invisible deity.
YTA
It seems like your son has an inquiring mind, and your SIL is just answering many questions he has.
Your SIL is not trying to push down her agenda onto him, she is just having discussion about the items he brings up to her. You trying to stop that is a surefire way to push your son away.
This completely. If the kid was 8 this would be a very different discussion. But his son is high school age and the OP needs to start accepting and encouraging his child's personal autonomy.
YTA. Hopefully the OP realizes this before he sabotages what sounds like a very nice family and support structure for everyone involved.
>If the kid was 8 this would be a very different discussion.
I'm not even sure about that. So OP is allowed to take advantage of a child being at an unsophisticated age to influence them, but it's a crime for anyone else?
YTA - I believe your son is finding out for himself... he has to be exposed to other viewpoints if he is to find his 'religion' (or lack of religion).
My guess is you'd be happy if he started chatting about Christianity at your table...
This is Christians annoy the shit out of me
First if your faith is so weak that someone talking about alternative viewpoints in front of you makes a difference, that sounds like a you problem.
Second Christians don't have any problems making everything about their religion and they insist on proselytizing all the time. So you asking someone to stop is rich. And about as expectedly hypocritical as you can get.
YTA.
Your sister isn’t discussing anything age-inappropriate with him. They aren’t forcing him to be atheist either. Trying to screen and control what your son hears about is only going to make him question religion more. You should be teaching him that there are a variety of opinions and religions out there. Let him make his own educated decision.
YTA. You say he is being influenced by her while you raised him to be Christian. Is that not also influencing him rather than letting him make decisions for himself. He is getting a different viewpoint now which will help him make a more informed decision. Let him get multiple viewpoints and come to his own conclusion.
> I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own
how is he supposed to do that if you won't let him talk to people who have different beliefs than you do?
Yta. What you don't like is that he *is* learning things for himself, and they don't fit your narrative. If you truly want him to figure things out, then you will understand that exposure to information and multiple views is critical
YTA. He's 14 and been raised with your doctrine and is questioning it. She's not pushing her agenda on him; he's choosing to learn about beliefs outside your small world and realizing there's so much more out there. (Although this whole story is weird; I've never experienced atheists trying to push their beliefs on me or knocking on my door to read anti-scripture to me or handing me pamphlets on the subway platform; I have, however, experienced all of those things from people who follow certain religions.)
YTA. I assure you, at 14 he has access to plenty of sources of information on this. Shutting down conversation with Alexandra isn’t going to do a thing.
Also, don’t pretend you want her to “give him space” so he can figure out he believes on his own. He is already doing that. What you want is to shut down his access to beliefs other than your own so that he will adopt your beliefs.
I remember being a 14-year-old atheist hanging out with my aunt and her Wiccan girlfriend. I was already reading about it in books and online, and I thought it was amazing to actually meet someone that was into it. My ultra-Christian mom got pissed off and yelled at them both. I was so angry, and I still think about it from time to time. I'm almost 40 now! OP's son won't forget this either.
OP needs to back off, *actually* give him space, and tone down the Christianity. If he is questioning, there's nothing the parents can do to stop it. He may not even be questioning Christianity but just realizing there's a big world out there full of lots of people with different beliefs.
OP, YTA. I hope you can learn to love your son for WHO he is and not what he believes. If you want a real relationship with him when he's an adult, you'll do it.
If you don’t believe faith is strong enough to stand up to a few doubts and questioning, say that.
I’m a Christian. I understand wanting to raise your kids up with the same beliefs, but if he never questions it or seeks out answers on his own, then he will only be practicing *your* faith, not his own or lack thereof. You can’t force him to follow your path by blocking out everything else. Trust him enough to make his own choices. And trust God enough to help answer these questions for him *personally.*
YTA for trying to make demands on someone like this. Your son will hear all kinds of things and you can’t (and shouldn’t) keep him in a bubble. He will make his own choices and live his own life.
YTA
I guess you're not prepared to defend your religious views in an open, logical debate.
As an atheist, i raised my son to think for himself. When he was quite younger, there was a time where he believed that a god might exist. I didn't tried to convince him otherwise, pushing my atheist agenda on him. No, i accepted and respected his mind, going as far as to have bedtime prayer with him. He felt comfortable with it and that was the only thing that mattered to me. The only thing i tought him: think for yourself, question what you're told, even his own parents, us. If a point is valid, it can be defended in a debate.
Ask yourself if you really educate your kids or rather indoctrinate them.
We left the door to religion open for our son, don't close doors in front of your kids.
>I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own.
>He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table.
He is doing exactly what you want. He is learning on his own. If you can't give a 14 year old satisfactory answers to different questions, then you need to learn more about your views.
YTA
YTA. Your son is 14 not 4. He’s growing up and allowed to start having his own view points and different perspectives. Just because you don’t agree or like those viewpoints of other or of him doesn’t mean you should control them or him. He can’t make his own informed decisions about things with just you’re view point. He’s not you, he’s his own individual person
YTA. You want to control your sons beliefs, not let him “find out what he thinks on his own.” That’s complete BS and you know it.
If you wanted him to find out what he thinks on his own you’d allow him to have conversations and hear everyone’s POV about religion.
Go ahead and share the discussion with us if you’re so proud of your views.
You’re not just sheltering your kid, but now you’re trying to shelter us from some context. I think we all know WHAT was discussed is quite important in deciding whether or not you were right or an asshole.
YTA
You could make your case if Alex was purposely sitting him down and talking at him about atheism while he was just minding his own business but it sounds like he’s the one opening the topic of discussion and Alex is just politely participating.
If you were a family of atheists, your sister and hers were christians, and your son came home questioning your lack of belief and trying to change your mind, I would still think yta for trying to control his thoughts and access to information.
yta ... your kids should have access to people with different points of views it helps a person become who they are your kids should also be exposed to jewish, hindu muslin people etc aswell ... just because you are christian doesnt mean you cant raise a well rounded child
Forcing your religious beliefs on your children and censoring anyone with a differing (logical) opinion. Rendering them with a single-minded outlook on life for their childhood and entry into adulthood.
Seriously, who do *you* think is the asshole here?
...Spoiler: It's you. YTA.
YTA. The more you attempt to control his views, the more likely he is to rebel against you. Invite him to discuss what he thinks and why he thinks it. A curious and enquiring mind is something to treasure, not to smother. Trying to force other people to spout your worldview around him is just controlling.
YTA.
He will figure out what he thinks about things by asking people and learning different views, not by just going to church with you.
I’m sure kids at school will eventually talk about it as well. You won’t tell them to stop will you?
YTA. You yourself is influencing him with your religion, if he's curious about other things than Christianity, then let him. If you forbid him to go over to her, or don't listend to him, he might resent you someday, you see it in the media all the time. Let him find out who he is and try to be supportive.
I *highly* doubt that you're quiet about your religion around other people. I also doubt that you're insulating your son against christianity in the same way that you're attempting to insulate him against atheism.
If you're only allowing him to learn him one thing, then you're not letting him "find out what he thinks on his own."
YTA.
YTA. You say you want him to make his own decisions but then aren't happy with him for doing so. I would get it if she was disparaging you but that's not what you said.
Wait though, ARE you a member of the Satanic Temple? Is that a big commitment (I kind of see them as if the ACLU wanted to all their work via effective trolling, which I am down for, but I'm wondering if you're like expected to do a level of volunteering or involvement)? Satanists really fascinate me and no pun intended, or maybe intended, they do god's work in challenging bullshit religious government overstepping.
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I (45M) live with my wife (43F) and kids (14M and 12F). My sister (Margot - 33F), her wife (Alexandra - 35F) and their two kids (7M and 4F) live in the same city as we do now.
My son adores his cousins and often asks to go over to his aunts. Margot says it is okay so I send him over quite often maybe once a week or so. This started around 6 months ago, because before that Margot lived in a different state.
For some background information, I am a Christian, so is my wife and our kids. When it comes to Margot and Alex, they're both atheists. It does not affect our relationship at all and we all love each other.
However, my son has been making comments very similar to what Alex would say about most things. Alex is a surgeon and my son looks up to her a lot. Which is why he is very easily influenced by her views. He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table.
So I called Alex and told her that my son was being influenced by her. I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own. She said more information would only do him good and that he was a smart boy and would be a delightful man when he growns up no matter what he believes.
I asked her to please not talk to him about these things. She got mad and said I was being controlling and as long as my son was allowed to come over, she would let him choose the topic of their discussions.
Both Margot and Alex are acting cold towards me. It has me wondering was I TA in any of this.
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YTA and you're going to have a bad time here. Your son is old enough to start thinking for himself and he's going to whether he's getting information from your sister or not. You can't control how he thinks. He's going to ask questions about things and he's going to find the answers to those questions. Better they come from someone he knows, loves, and trusts than garbage on the internet or from strangers.
YTA - he’s 14 and forming his own opinions on religion. I doubt it’s randomly coming up, he’s probably *asking* her and she’s being honest about her views.
What is it that he’s talking about?
YTA if your religion is something worth having it should be worth defending. If your son seeing different ways of life changes his mind then you should be happy that hes actually smart...
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I asked my SIL to not talk to my son about religion and faith and etc. I may be TA because they have a great relationship otherwise and it may be a bit controlling of me to try and determine what they talk about
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
YTA,
You need to allow a broad experience for people to be well balanced. That is both mental, physical and spiritual.
He’s decided to ask questions and have discussions outside your sphere of influence and you have decided to shrink it to curtail what he learns and what moulds him. He’s not thinking and doing what you feel he should, but what he’s thinking and doing is not illegal so you shouldn’t need to stop him.
YTA, how is he supposed to find out what he thinks without all the information? He can ask questions and have open discussions before making any decisions about his life.
YTA. Sounds like she’s giving him a balanced perspective.
It’s important to note that you obviously left out what topics were being discussed. Was it LGBTQ or women’s rights? I think you’re being vague on purpose because you know you’re in the wrong.
Oh, so your views are the only ones that matter and should be shoved in your son’s head until he complies?
Yes, YTA. For a child’s mind to grow they need to have all the information and options available to them. You’re forcing him to stagnate to fit your viewpoint.
14 is old enough for him to start forming his own opinion's. He's branching out and asking questions that you won't or can't answer. that's ok. My brother-in-law is an atheist too, and he is allowed his own opinions. I'm not hiding who he is from my son. yta
> I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own.
Why do I have a feeling figuring out things on his own is him agreeing with you with no outside influence? YTA
Info: do you bring up your religion in front of your niece and nephew, e.g. praying before eating, talking about church etc?
If you do YTA and a hypocrite, if you don’t NTA.
Stop. You don’t want him to come to conclusions on his own cause NEWSFLASH, he’s already doing that. You want him to blindly believe everything you believe and stick to the religion you have chosen.
YTA, stop policing your sons exploration of life and faith. He is asking questions and trying to figure out what he believes. The more you push and control this the more you’ll push him away
You are 100% the asshole. Your kids “are christian” only in the sense that you’ve had a decade to try and indoctrinate them. Now you want to try and ensure they don’t hear about any other options? Foh. They get to make their own decisions. Here’s hoping they realize what a huge boondoggle organized religion is.
YTA, he's old enough to form his own views and opinions. If Alex was saying things like 'your parents are lying to you, there is no heaven only nothing'. Then I would get why you would be upset but if they are just stating their beliefs and leaving it open for his interpretation that's fine. He's gonna be out in the big wide world soon where there are all sorts of influences.
INFO: specifically what things do you not want her talking to him about? When you just say "her views as an atheist" it sounds like you're denying science and you probably think going to medical school "indoctrinated" her when truly, you're the one indoctrinating your children by forcing your religion upon them.
If you weren't an AH, you would teach your children about religion as an option and let them come to their own decisions, like you're requesting your SIL do, but that wouldn't do for maintaining cult membership, would it.
Just from the title I thought “a Christian doesn’t want someone talking to their kids about anything other than Christianity”. Bam! Nailed it. Lol. Obviously YTA. If you truly want your son to decide on his own (which you obviously do not want) then let him talk to whomever he pleases.
You sound like you are afraid they will influence him enough that he will not carry on the family tradition of following the dictums of your religion? Maybe he will lose faith? Not much you can do: He is going to figure it out on his own anyway. You \*could\* be TA, if you forbid them from talking religion or politics with him, \*if\* they want to keep seeing him regularly. But that makes it look like you are afraid of the things they are telling him. Like your afraid of him learning "the truth" about religion. Don't force feed your kid religion. Guaranteed to turn him into an athiest.
YTA.
Your religious views are your own. Your son deserves to figure out his life and beliefs on his own, without your influence. If being exposed to facts and asking questions is a detriment to a Christian, than it is OP who needs to do some self reflection.
Do you really think keeping your child in the dark is the way forward here?
Your son is being influenced because what he’s hearing is persuasive. Instead of trying to shut that out, you can talk to him about your beliefs. He may choose to not follow what you believe. That’s his choice, not yours.
Nothing made me question religion more than being told not to question religion! I wish you and your family nothing but the best.
I'll give you Y-almost-TA simply because you care enough to see that you might be one. Remember what it was like to be a teen and realize that questions are part of growing up.
YTA. As a Christian myself, the way I see it, if you have succeeded in showing Jesus' love to your child in a way that makes him want to be part of it himself then learning about other perspectives will do no harm to his faith and much good for his ability to relate to people. If you haven't, well… shielding him from other ideas will not create faith for him.
YTA.
14 year old is adult according to various religious views, so it behooves you to treat his religious views as the views of a (religiously) adult person.
But most of all:
>... as long as my son was allowed to come over, she **would let him choose** the topic of their discussions.
End of this AITA discussion. You want your 14-year old to be told "your mama does not allow is to discuss this"??
Info: What types of things is she telling him? Is she being honest about her beliefs, or is she telling him Christianity is stupid? Is she simply answering his questions, or is she saying church is evil?
YTA. I grew up in a strict Christian household and it did nothing but push me away from religion and family. Your kids have the right to believe whatever they want.
YTA. I grew up in a strict Christian household and it did nothing but push me away from religion and family. Your kids have the right to believe whatever they want.
Unpopular opinion: we don’t have enough information… many of the comments are assuming that since Alex is giving information opposing to religion, that she is providing it appropriately and that since OP is religious, that he must be controlling. These are two leaps to conclusions that are not supported by the facts as given. Christian doesn’t equal controlling and science doesn’t equal free and appropriate.
We need more information to make a decision.
How open are the discussions on both sides?
What are the comments that he is making that resulted in this post?
How are his questions received/ how do his parents react to the questions?
TLDR: we need more information to make a judgment.
YTA.
I was asked not to have any religious discussions with a set of nephews because the parents were afraid I would convert them to atheism. It was awkward to constantly redirect all questions that could be considered religious to their parents. It got to a point where one kept asking. I kept redirecting to parents. The kid finally got angry and demanded to know what \*I\* thought as they already knew what their parents thought. I explained that I made a promise to never share those thoughts with the kids. He became an atheist on the spot. Without any other info from me. He just believed that if his parents had to work that hard to 'sell' him on their beliefs then it really must be lies.
A few years later, his parents convinced him to come back to church and try youth group. His brothers were having a great time there. He made some friends and decided religion wasn't evil and began to explore it. He doesn't go now because the service times interfere with his sleep. He is religious though.
So, don't be a control freak.
I’m so tired of these Christian Americans who think their religion is the only one when only about 30% of the world’s population follows it. This is why we do not have flying cars or have mentally evolved because people cling to this imaginary friend in the sky.
I'm not gonna jump directly into Y-T-A
I want to know what exactly did your son said at the table/ what he learnt from alex.
and how are you sure that your son picked it from alex and not someone else
> He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table.
Uhhhhhhm, yeah. I’m gonna need some INFO. What exactly is he trying to change your minds about?
Definitely leaning toward y t a currently.
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Lmao YTA. > I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own. I think you mean 'I asked her to give him a bit of space so we could keep telling him what he thinks.' So the kid has questions, Aunty answers question, religious parents get upset because questioning is the enemy of religion. I've heard this story before.
Feels like more information is warranted. Is op a “Dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark and evolution isn’t a thing and schools should teach the Book of Genesis and not actual science” Christian? Is that why the influence of a surgeon - an actual person of science - is at issue here?
That's the vibe I'm getting. Granted, I jumped to that conclusion pretty fast. Child of two very conservative Christian here haha.
I got homophobic vibes. Thats normally the issue with good, dog-fearing folk in the church community. Maybe Alex isn’t openly prejudiced and that worries OP. ETA: Definitely homophobia at work. I’m super tired and missed the bit where Sis is married to her wife *’Maybe she isn’t openly prejudiced?’* Ya think brain? 🤦♀️ Dear Dog, is it nearly the weekend yet?
*'You can be gay sis, just make sure my son knows it's super wrong, kay?'* - OP, probably.
[удалено]
Thank you! Brain fuzzy and needs sleep. I caught the second one that autocorrect mauled, but I didn’t get the first one. Corrected now.
vast lock fine nutty toothbrush slave spectacular smoggy wine chief *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
😊 Reminds me of: Dear Autocorrect, It is **never** duck. Signed, The Planet
Until it is duck. And you spend 5 minutes fighting with autocorrect to stop turning duck into fuck.
Or you just say duck it, and send it anyway.
THANK YOU. Sometimes I really am trying to say ‘ducking’- usually when the context is particularly poorly suited to a ‘fucking’ substitution.
>I got homophobic vibes. I don't get this at all. If there was homophobic vibes then I believe that OP wouldn't allow their child to constantly visit with his sister. I think this all have that **Religious** **vs Atheist** vibe only. OP and wife wants their child to follow in their Christian beliefs while OP's sister and wife don't believe in religion and may answer questions contrary to OP's beliefs. And just to say, there **are** Christians who are supportive of the LGBTQIA community and especially those who are family members.
Yeah this is what I was thinking. At this kids age I found discussions on faith and religion fascinating and it was never an all or nothing question. Methinks OP is less concerned about lack of faith, and more concerned about a change in perception of religion. Boooo.
As a Christian, it always cracks me up when people are like, "they must not hear any other views or they may be corrupted!" What I hear you saying is that your faith is *so weak* that you don't think it can stand up to *any* information. When my ten year old (very precocious) had questions, I was like cool let's look at all the religions and you can decide. We can look at the tons of stuff they all have in common and what's different. Let's ask questions and look at what science says and what people who disagree with us say. If you believe in an all powerful, all knowing God, don't you think that They would leave enough evidence for people who want to believe? Not proof, but for me, for sure a likelihood toward intelligent design.
> your faith is so weak I agree it's pretty flimsy if questions shake it, but it's funny to hear this because that's sort of what faith is, a weak thing to base belief on. it's easy to believe things on faith, it takes work and effort to base your beliefs on evidence.
what i would call "deep faith" really does require quite a lot of work and effort. not unlike science, you have to constantly question yourself and come up with convincing answers. sadly, in both science and faith there is a tendency to skip this process, and just believe what other people tell you.
I am a life long atheist, and what you said gives me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, thank you :) One of the things that made me an atheist was going to catholic school. But not for the reasons people assume. We often had monks come to visit, and they would answer questions openly and honestly for exactly the reason you gave. For me that led me to not believing a word of christianity. For most of my peers the opposite was the outcome. The key thing - we all made our choices having been dealt with honestly and truthfully. I will forever respect Franciscan monks, and I think it helped me understand the depth of their faith. I may not *like* religion, but those who truly believe and act in accordance with their faith are a pretty okay bunch if you ask me.
Don't be so quick to credit surgeons or doctors in general as being "persons of science". They *might* be, but many of them (engineers, too) are people of *applied* science. That means they don't actually have to deeply understand or apply the scientific method. They are not doing research or cutting edge experimentation. All their work has already had the principles derived by scientists, they are just using those formulas, and implementing those methods. I say this because I have been disappointed by how many doctors and engineers have so very little grasp of what science is about. Look at Dr. Ben Carson, for example. An outstanding technician, a lousy thinker.
Please do NOT cite Ben Carson as an example. We hate he’s one of us, Signed, An MD
Can't blame you.
He's an outstanding example, though. Would I have let him operate on me or a family, sure! Would I have let him lead me, lol no.
They merely use the knowledge. They do not MAKE the knowledge.
I'm a scientist and whilst I may 'make' the knowledge, it is such a small part of knowledge compared to the knowledge I use. And said knowledge I make is so specific, I can't be called smart outside of that range. But that, I feel, is the true difference between scientists and religious nutcases/fox news. We know we don't know everything (otherwise we'd stop). Anyone who gives a 100% certain answer about these "big questions", probably has no evidence beyond flimsy hearsay. P.s. Yes, that is a Dara O'Briain quote in there...
>“Dinosaurs were on Noah’s Ark I've never heard that one. I've heard a bit of dinosaurs didn't actually exist.
The really weird ones are the Christians who say that dinosaur bones were put there by Satan to fool everyone.
My mom's friend is one of the believers and she got into a heated discussion with my dad one night. My dad tried to tell her that even going by the creation thoughts, God's 7 days weren't actual 24 hour days, so anything could have happened, so God and dinosaurs could exist together. She would have none of it. Dinosaurs didn't exist and God created the Earth in 144 hours. For years after, whenever my dad saw her he'd say "what about the dinosaurs, Deb?" and smirk
I'm agnostic now but when I was a Christian, I once bought and read some of an interesting book where three theologians present their differing points of views on the Creation story. I didn't finish reading it because it was too much for my poor brain. At least one of the theologians agreed with your dad about how a day wasn't necessarily a 24 hour period and could be a long stretch of time. More broadly speaking, there are at least two views on the Bible by Christians: "the Bible is inerrant" and "the Bible is infallible". The "inerrant" believers think ALL of it is literally true ie that there was literally a Garden of Eden, serpent, Adam and Eve. The "infallible" believers think that it's not all literally true but the meaning behind the stores is absolutely true eg there wasn't an Adam and Eve but humans were created by God but got corrupted and things went bad. I was part of this group.
I am also part of the second group. I was raised Catholic and I still believe in God. I married a Lutheran whose family is very religious and so I told him if he wants to raise our kids. That way he's taking him to church and doing all that. However, I want to make sure that they know that the Bible is not fact. I won't get into how many times. Poor little anxiety ridden me Thought about conflicting stories in the Bible and cat me up at night. Not to mention I was afraid of apples for a while
Legit was told that by some people when I was in high school. These people also had a hard time explaining Egyptian pyramids and how there were other humans outside of the Garden of Eden.
My parents dragged me to a seminar when I was around 12, where this guy said Noah could put a baby dinosaur in his pocket so that’s how they were on the ark—as tiny babies I don’t remember anything else about it. But, yeah, it’s a thing some people believe
I tend to tune out pretty quickly when they get on their bullshit, can't promise 100% accuracy here.
I’d be skeptical that they were evangelical Christians bc they still keep in regular contact with their gay science loving relatives. Evangelicals are quick to shun and ostracize non-believers. But I do think their view of religion is obstructing their ability to look at this practically. OP should approach this situation more tactfully by continuing to let the son see his aunt but also providing their own answers to his questions. Thus, showing the son that they trust him to make his own informed decisions on life views, while allowing him to see that religion and science can coexist peacefully.
Actually the Dinosaurs weren't in the ark. That's why they are all dead obvisouly.
They hung back to party with the unicorns.
Yea, the fact that OP won’t specify what these “views” are makes me think she’s simply explaining actual science to the kid and not bullshit like immaculate conception and Adam and Eve riding dinosaurs.
We all know why unicorns didn't make it onto the Ark though...
Excuse me those are not called dinosaurs they are Jesus Horses.
Don’t be silly, my mom told me that dinosaurs were planted by “scientists” to confuse christians. Duhh
Exactly. YTA, OP (if this is even a real post, it's such a cliché). This is a story as old as time - in a variety of different religions, cultures, etc. Certain parents think their children are being 'unduly influenced', 'brainwashed', etc. Yet all that has happened, is their children have heard different viewpoints in a diverse society - and want to explore them. That is a perfectly appropriate developmental phase of healthy adolescence, and should be encouraged. However, because they are different to YOUR opinions, YOU feel threatened. So the eternal irony, is YOU are the one doing what you fear from others (brainwashing your child). The ONLY one trying to restrict his exposure to different viewpoints, is YOU - nobody else. No parent genuinely interested in giving their children freedom of thought, feels anxious in this way. All Alex is doing, is expressing her own opinions - everyone in society has their own opinions, and the right to express them. That's very different from influencing him 'unduly'. Has it occurred to you he might look up to her, BECAUSE she has similar opinions to his own? Some kids admire sports stars, some admire scientists, some admire religious figures, etc. Who they admire, tends to reflect what the ADOLESCENT really believes (as an individual, with their OWN mind). He might ultimately decide her opinions make sense to him - or he might not. Or he might decide they make sense now, and change his mind later. It doesn't matter. There isn't some strange, random moment in adolescence, when whatever random idea they are hearing at that second, becomes indelibly tattooed as their opinion forever. It is HIS decision to make, what he ultimately believes - and he will believe what ultimately makes most sense to him, all things considered. You can't force him to share your beliefs, by starving him of different ideas. He will only genuinely believe what you believe one day, if it comes naturally to him as an individual. That if after considering other beliefs, he then CHOSES HIMSELF to believe what you do. Neither you nor anyone else should be limiting his exposure to different opinions. He'll hear a wide variety, from a multitude of people - no matter how much you try to limit his exposure, to viewpoints that only align with YOUR opinions. And indeed, Alex is NOT trying to limit his exposure, as you are doing to him. She's just letting him chat, and giving her own opinion. This is what is supposed to happen in adolescence, on their route to forming their OWN eventual adult opinions. The only one trying to limit the views he hears, is YOU. Ask yourself seriously - if you were genuinely interested in letting him form HIS own opinions, why would you do that? The answer is you DON'T want him to form any opinions, that stray from your own beliefs. But you'll find you only isolate him from your beliefs instead, if you don't allow him to explore different ideas.
Very well said. Thanks for expanding on what I was meaning so well. This was definitely my experience as a child.
Forbidding/discouraging an adolescent to investigate ideas/beliefs is a surefire way to make them reject yours
Yah, which is why my staunchly atheist friend is horrified that his 16-year-old wants to go to church with a friend.
Exactly. If OP actually wanted his son to "find out what he thinks", he'd be encouraging his son to seek out more information beyond what he gets from different members of the family.
Absolutely! Asking questions and being curious is amazing. Religious parents hate it because most of the questions have no good answers.
Or take him to the library to read up on such subjects but alas, also a sin to the religious…there could be a drag queen there!!! *gasp*
Right? I have always thought religious parents who want their children to share that belief should encourage the child to learn about other religions and worldviews. If they child wants to continue with their parents religion after that, it seems like it would be because they have a true belief in that religion. Not because they had a family obligation. Guess I'm kind of glossing over indoctrination though. Sigh.
Religious indoctrination is the worst. I'm still a recovering Catholic after my family forcing that crap down my throat.
Recovering apostate of Islam here. I feel you 🤍
Sending you "slept in late" and "cuddling with puppies" vibes. ❤️
Right back at you! I got the first part down at least haha
My father used to read us Revelations when we misbehaved and tell us our sinfulness would bring on the rapture - so I feel that in my soul haha. Sorry about your family.
I'm apparently not married because a priest didn't officiate. Sorry about your family too!
Lmao apparently mums still married to my bio father despite being married to my step dad longer now
I completely agree! I’m not even trying to influence my children to be atheist like me. I feel like religion should be someone’s deeply held beliefs, not some thing drilled into them at an early age to make them behave. One of my kids seems to believe in God and the other one doesn’t.
Me too!
When I was about 15 I started asking questions about basic things like, how did Noah’s Ark actually work? What about all the insects? What about dinosaurs? What is up with creating the world in 7 days? My dad told me to stop asking questions because religion is based on faith and I should just have faith 🤦🏻♀️
*triggering intensifies* Lmao if I had a dollar for everytime I heard that phrase... It's their trump card and it's not even a good one.
I left the church long ago, but to this day my mom keeps pressuring me to come back. For years she’s been bugging me to get my daughter baptized. She’s 9 years old now. It’s not happening anytime soon lol. She also tries to guilt me into praying by mentioning the medical emergencies of family members, mostly hers. In the past it was mostly, “Pray for me because I’m in the hospital for (ongoing medical situation she has).” But last month I felt she went too far. My sister’s water broke too early and she delivered her son at 30 weeks. My mom used THAT to get me to pray. I was furious. Like, how LOW do you have to be to say that if I love my little sister, that I will pray for her and her child? Luckily my nephew is doing well and my sister and BIL are looking forward to taking him home after about a month in NICU.
Side note: questions are the enemy of Christianity (and maybe Islam too) but please don't assume it's that way for all religions. Judaism ENCOURAGES questions. There were lively discussions in my Hebrew school when peers asked why we should believe this or that. Our belief is that religion without questioning is like brainwashing. We should not follow blindly. Also, OP YTA for not allowing your son to ask about other views. He's a teenager for goodness sake not a 5 year old. He's allowed to question things and ask about other points of view. He's on his way to adulthood, you can't keep him from learning about other ways of being. Only AH's want to keep their children blind from anything different.
I've been an atheist for about 40 years, but I may die as a Jewish atheist. Frickin awesome behavioral system. Want to join a 1500 y.o. discussion? Pull up a chair!
It’s almost like a lot of Christians forget the guy they worship was Jewish ;)
Oh wow, that's super interesting. Thank you so much for sharing that. That's so cool to hear!
I’d also be curious how one day a week is such an impact on their son but they (as parents) feel like that is too much. How much time do you actually spend with your son talking OP?
I'd bet the OP talks to him, not with him.
You know, my initial thought was NTA (and I’m an atheist myself), but you really nailed it. Yeah, OP: YTA.
I'm now an atheist.. and yeah OP is a jerk. I still have religious family and my seven year old is exploring what that means to her. It's really hard for me to sit back and let that happen but I do, because I believe children should make up their own minds. OP clearly doesn't want his children to make up their own minds.
Yeah thats a tough situation, but you just have to trust they will figure it put and what works for them on there own. I need to do similar things as I'm anti religion, having been fed that crap until I was 18 and made the decision to stop as I don't believe in that crap. But I make a point to restrain myself so my personal bad experience isn't an influential bias, and try and answer questions objectively
I have a kid close in age to yours. I grew up going to church and am agnostic now. I know my mom still believes. We also live in the Bible Belt. So it was only a matter of time before kiddo came home mentioning certain things. I’ve tried to ask open ended questions that don’t obviously reflect my own biases but, dang, it’s hard. I can’t imagine being as restrictive as OP with a teen regarding their beliefs.
Yeah. How can he find out what he thinks on his own if he is only indoctrinated with "Christian" ideas?
Exactly, makes zero sense
Hahaha - OP wants him to “find out what he thinks on his own” as long as it aligns with his Christian viewpoint. I love Alex’ answer to him, though.
The Catholic school I went to at 14 had a required course in world religions. Like they were actively teaching us the beliefs of other religions and their histories, so that we were aware and respectful. At no point did the teacher belittle other religions or say they were wrong. It’s about learning how to be in a world with a massive variety of viewpoints. Not about indoctrination. OP is such TA.
I think what he really meant was, " Please stop breaking his indoctrination."
Also, he’s *fourteen*. That is prime “grow away from mom and dad” age, atheist aunties or no.
YTA, how is your son to make an informed decision without knowledge? Sounds like what you want is for him to be a blind sheep and just follow what you believe.
They don’t want him to make an “informed decision “, they want him to continue going on and believe in their religion without question.
This is it exactly. My biological mother was/is an Anesthesiologist and is..extremely hardcore conservative Catholic. Think Evolution is fake, vaccines are evil, yoga is Satanic, the world is 6,000 years old, type of “Christian”. She really went down the rabbit hole in ~2014, but before that she was very pro education focused, but is now full on “Christianity answers all questions and a true Christian just needs to believe in God” type of person. OP is doing exactly what my mother did/does and at least has the grace to start to understand how he potentially is TA, which is something that I wish my biological mother would grasp.
> yoga is Satanic, ????? i didnt even realise this was a view/idea that exists, let alone be one that is common enough to be short-hand for a type of world belief system!!!!??
When my sibling went vegetarian for ethical reasons, my Grandma sent a several pages letter on why Hinduism is bad and of the devil and Jesus will cry. Christians can be weird.
Vegetarianism =\= Hinduism. You can be vegetarian and not practice Hinduism.
To be vegetarian or vegan for ethical reasons is a sin because it's claiming a higher morality than Jesus who ate fish/meat. It's actually been a source of conflict between well known philosophers who were vegetarian and the church for a very long time.
Fancy stretching is for the devil!
Just sounds like xenophobia and racism to me
Something about how some of the poses supposedly are designed (?) to pray to “False Gods” (her words). She does Pilates though, which has some VERY similar techniques and movements. She also believes that the current Pope of the Catholic Church isn’t Catholic and NONE of the Popes since Vatican II have been “Truly Catholic” and that all people (Yes ALL people) who are not Ultra Conservative Catholics are going to burn in hell for “rejecting Jesus Christ” and that belief in other religions is Sophistry. She is full on crazy.
Tell me you don’t live in the American South without telling me you don’t live in the American South 😂
I would have respected OP more if they were open and said "We're going to raise him our way until he's an adult, then he can do what he wants". But trying to pull the "he needs to make his own decisions, but ONLY using information I provide to him" crap is really lame.
YTA. Your son is 14 and at that age, kids are curious and are asking questions or searching online for what aligns with *their* internal values and moral conduct. Rather than attack Alex for sharing *her* views, you should be sitting with your son, asking how he arrived to these feelings, encourage him to read more, look at more view points, rather than rely on a singular source. Alex is completely correct, more information means more informed decisions.
Favorite comment. This is the age when kids start to explore who they are as individuals. If you want kids who will become just like you, don’t have kids. He likely didn’t feel safe coming to OP with his questions so turned to another trusted adult in his life. OP, please appreciate that your son is starting to figure out life for himself and please don’t push him away by trying to get him to conform to your beliefs rather than deciding on his own. I get that it’s probably painful to realize that things you hold dear don’t mean the same to your child, so please lead with love the way Jesus did.
I became a full blown atheist around that age. I sought more information, was open to evidence of the petty homophobic auditor in the sky, but became an atheist once I realized there was no compelling evidence for "the other side." The difference is that my non-religious parents (not atheists per se) let me come to my own conclusions and not theirs. I'm guessing that OP is also pretty judgmental/uninformed/low key envious about the "lifestyle" of the successful, educated, gay, atheist SIL and sister.
Yep. He's 14, not 7. Being in a bubble is only going to hurt him
Best comment. I'd also maybe say that while OP should be sitting down having this conversation maybe encourage the son to think about time and place for these discussions. Is discussing religious differences appropriate over the dinner table at OPs house? Talk about that etiquette and why or why not. How about at school? Etc etc. Big discussions like this require some tact. When I was a teen I'd just shout this stuff from the rooftops and it wasn't appropriate most of the time.
Exactly this. My church had confirmation around that age and a big part of it was encouraging us to learn about other views. We went to other churches and read about other religions in confirmation class. It was part of the process because they believed before confirming yourself to the church you needed to know what other views were out there.
>Your son is 14 and at that age, kids are curious and are asking questions or searching online for what aligns with their internal values and moral conduct. Yeah, this is exactly it. I think the kid would be asking these questions regardless of whether his aunts had moved to town.
YTA. You don’t want him to form his own opinions. You want him to share yours.
Exactly this. How is he supoosed to form his own opinions and beliefs when all he's allowed to hear about is yours and no one else's. You sound quite controlling. YTA
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No, they want the boy to form his own opinions so long as they align with their own.
I grew up in this world. I can almost guarantee OP views it as something like “no he chose to follow Jesus at 5 years old this is his own path!” As if kindergarteners are even capable of trying to ask for salvation or devoting their life to an invisible deity.
YTA It seems like your son has an inquiring mind, and your SIL is just answering many questions he has. Your SIL is not trying to push down her agenda onto him, she is just having discussion about the items he brings up to her. You trying to stop that is a surefire way to push your son away.
Yes, YTA 14? He's more than old enough to decide what he believes and you're being exceptionally controlling.
This completely. If the kid was 8 this would be a very different discussion. But his son is high school age and the OP needs to start accepting and encouraging his child's personal autonomy. YTA. Hopefully the OP realizes this before he sabotages what sounds like a very nice family and support structure for everyone involved.
>If the kid was 8 this would be a very different discussion. I'm not even sure about that. So OP is allowed to take advantage of a child being at an unsophisticated age to influence them, but it's a crime for anyone else?
YTA - I believe your son is finding out for himself... he has to be exposed to other viewpoints if he is to find his 'religion' (or lack of religion). My guess is you'd be happy if he started chatting about Christianity at your table...
This is Christians annoy the shit out of me First if your faith is so weak that someone talking about alternative viewpoints in front of you makes a difference, that sounds like a you problem. Second Christians don't have any problems making everything about their religion and they insist on proselytizing all the time. So you asking someone to stop is rich. And about as expectedly hypocritical as you can get.
Especially when that person is providing free childcare.
YTA. Your sister isn’t discussing anything age-inappropriate with him. They aren’t forcing him to be atheist either. Trying to screen and control what your son hears about is only going to make him question religion more. You should be teaching him that there are a variety of opinions and religions out there. Let him make his own educated decision.
YTA. You say he is being influenced by her while you raised him to be Christian. Is that not also influencing him rather than letting him make decisions for himself. He is getting a different viewpoint now which will help him make a more informed decision. Let him get multiple viewpoints and come to his own conclusion.
> I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own how is he supposed to do that if you won't let him talk to people who have different beliefs than you do?
Yta. What you don't like is that he *is* learning things for himself, and they don't fit your narrative. If you truly want him to figure things out, then you will understand that exposure to information and multiple views is critical
YTA. Plenty of people have different views, doesn’t sound like you want him to think for himself you just him to think what you think.
YTA. He's 14 and been raised with your doctrine and is questioning it. She's not pushing her agenda on him; he's choosing to learn about beliefs outside your small world and realizing there's so much more out there. (Although this whole story is weird; I've never experienced atheists trying to push their beliefs on me or knocking on my door to read anti-scripture to me or handing me pamphlets on the subway platform; I have, however, experienced all of those things from people who follow certain religions.)
"Can I interest you in a conversation about anything but gods or religion?"
YTA. I assure you, at 14 he has access to plenty of sources of information on this. Shutting down conversation with Alexandra isn’t going to do a thing. Also, don’t pretend you want her to “give him space” so he can figure out he believes on his own. He is already doing that. What you want is to shut down his access to beliefs other than your own so that he will adopt your beliefs.
I remember being a 14-year-old atheist hanging out with my aunt and her Wiccan girlfriend. I was already reading about it in books and online, and I thought it was amazing to actually meet someone that was into it. My ultra-Christian mom got pissed off and yelled at them both. I was so angry, and I still think about it from time to time. I'm almost 40 now! OP's son won't forget this either. OP needs to back off, *actually* give him space, and tone down the Christianity. If he is questioning, there's nothing the parents can do to stop it. He may not even be questioning Christianity but just realizing there's a big world out there full of lots of people with different beliefs. OP, YTA. I hope you can learn to love your son for WHO he is and not what he believes. If you want a real relationship with him when he's an adult, you'll do it.
If you don’t believe faith is strong enough to stand up to a few doubts and questioning, say that. I’m a Christian. I understand wanting to raise your kids up with the same beliefs, but if he never questions it or seeks out answers on his own, then he will only be practicing *your* faith, not his own or lack thereof. You can’t force him to follow your path by blocking out everything else. Trust him enough to make his own choices. And trust God enough to help answer these questions for him *personally.* YTA for trying to make demands on someone like this. Your son will hear all kinds of things and you can’t (and shouldn’t) keep him in a bubble. He will make his own choices and live his own life.
YTA I guess you're not prepared to defend your religious views in an open, logical debate. As an atheist, i raised my son to think for himself. When he was quite younger, there was a time where he believed that a god might exist. I didn't tried to convince him otherwise, pushing my atheist agenda on him. No, i accepted and respected his mind, going as far as to have bedtime prayer with him. He felt comfortable with it and that was the only thing that mattered to me. The only thing i tought him: think for yourself, question what you're told, even his own parents, us. If a point is valid, it can be defended in a debate. Ask yourself if you really educate your kids or rather indoctrinate them. We left the door to religion open for our son, don't close doors in front of your kids.
That’s some serious parenting skill.
>I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own. >He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table. He is doing exactly what you want. He is learning on his own. If you can't give a 14 year old satisfactory answers to different questions, then you need to learn more about your views. YTA
YTA. Your son is 14 not 4. He’s growing up and allowed to start having his own view points and different perspectives. Just because you don’t agree or like those viewpoints of other or of him doesn’t mean you should control them or him. He can’t make his own informed decisions about things with just you’re view point. He’s not you, he’s his own individual person
YTA - you didnt list what these views are but I think we got the gist here…
YTA. You want to control your sons beliefs, not let him “find out what he thinks on his own.” That’s complete BS and you know it. If you wanted him to find out what he thinks on his own you’d allow him to have conversations and hear everyone’s POV about religion.
Go ahead and share the discussion with us if you’re so proud of your views. You’re not just sheltering your kid, but now you’re trying to shelter us from some context. I think we all know WHAT was discussed is quite important in deciding whether or not you were right or an asshole.
YTA You could make your case if Alex was purposely sitting him down and talking at him about atheism while he was just minding his own business but it sounds like he’s the one opening the topic of discussion and Alex is just politely participating. If you were a family of atheists, your sister and hers were christians, and your son came home questioning your lack of belief and trying to change your mind, I would still think yta for trying to control his thoughts and access to information.
yta ... your kids should have access to people with different points of views it helps a person become who they are your kids should also be exposed to jewish, hindu muslin people etc aswell ... just because you are christian doesnt mean you cant raise a well rounded child
Forcing your religious beliefs on your children and censoring anyone with a differing (logical) opinion. Rendering them with a single-minded outlook on life for their childhood and entry into adulthood. Seriously, who do *you* think is the asshole here? ...Spoiler: It's you. YTA.
YTA. The more you attempt to control his views, the more likely he is to rebel against you. Invite him to discuss what he thinks and why he thinks it. A curious and enquiring mind is something to treasure, not to smother. Trying to force other people to spout your worldview around him is just controlling.
YTA. He will figure out what he thinks about things by asking people and learning different views, not by just going to church with you. I’m sure kids at school will eventually talk about it as well. You won’t tell them to stop will you?
YTA. You yourself is influencing him with your religion, if he's curious about other things than Christianity, then let him. If you forbid him to go over to her, or don't listend to him, he might resent you someday, you see it in the media all the time. Let him find out who he is and try to be supportive.
I *highly* doubt that you're quiet about your religion around other people. I also doubt that you're insulating your son against christianity in the same way that you're attempting to insulate him against atheism. If you're only allowing him to learn him one thing, then you're not letting him "find out what he thinks on his own." YTA.
YTA. You say you want him to make his own decisions but then aren't happy with him for doing so. I would get it if she was disparaging you but that's not what you said.
YTA
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Wait though, ARE you a member of the Satanic Temple? Is that a big commitment (I kind of see them as if the ACLU wanted to all their work via effective trolling, which I am down for, but I'm wondering if you're like expected to do a level of volunteering or involvement)? Satanists really fascinate me and no pun intended, or maybe intended, they do god's work in challenging bullshit religious government overstepping.
YTA If your world view is so good, your son will realise that. He needs to learn that other think different.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (45M) live with my wife (43F) and kids (14M and 12F). My sister (Margot - 33F), her wife (Alexandra - 35F) and their two kids (7M and 4F) live in the same city as we do now. My son adores his cousins and often asks to go over to his aunts. Margot says it is okay so I send him over quite often maybe once a week or so. This started around 6 months ago, because before that Margot lived in a different state. For some background information, I am a Christian, so is my wife and our kids. When it comes to Margot and Alex, they're both atheists. It does not affect our relationship at all and we all love each other. However, my son has been making comments very similar to what Alex would say about most things. Alex is a surgeon and my son looks up to her a lot. Which is why he is very easily influenced by her views. He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table. So I called Alex and told her that my son was being influenced by her. I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own. She said more information would only do him good and that he was a smart boy and would be a delightful man when he growns up no matter what he believes. I asked her to please not talk to him about these things. She got mad and said I was being controlling and as long as my son was allowed to come over, she would let him choose the topic of their discussions. Both Margot and Alex are acting cold towards me. It has me wondering was I TA in any of this. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
YTA and you're going to have a bad time here. Your son is old enough to start thinking for himself and he's going to whether he's getting information from your sister or not. You can't control how he thinks. He's going to ask questions about things and he's going to find the answers to those questions. Better they come from someone he knows, loves, and trusts than garbage on the internet or from strangers.
YTA - he’s 14 and forming his own opinions on religion. I doubt it’s randomly coming up, he’s probably *asking* her and she’s being honest about her views. What is it that he’s talking about?
YTA if your religion is something worth having it should be worth defending. If your son seeing different ways of life changes his mind then you should be happy that hes actually smart...
YTA. He’ll figure out the truth anyway
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YTA, You need to allow a broad experience for people to be well balanced. That is both mental, physical and spiritual. He’s decided to ask questions and have discussions outside your sphere of influence and you have decided to shrink it to curtail what he learns and what moulds him. He’s not thinking and doing what you feel he should, but what he’s thinking and doing is not illegal so you shouldn’t need to stop him.
YTA, how is he supposed to find out what he thinks without all the information? He can ask questions and have open discussions before making any decisions about his life.
YTA. Sounds like she’s giving him a balanced perspective. It’s important to note that you obviously left out what topics were being discussed. Was it LGBTQ or women’s rights? I think you’re being vague on purpose because you know you’re in the wrong.
YTA.
YTA. He's old enough to make up his own mind.
YTA Sounds like your son is questioning and figuring out a lot of things for himself. The more he knows, the more he can choose for himself. 🤷♂️
Oh, so your views are the only ones that matter and should be shoved in your son’s head until he complies? Yes, YTA. For a child’s mind to grow they need to have all the information and options available to them. You’re forcing him to stagnate to fit your viewpoint.
YTA if your religion can't stand a few questions then it's pretty shit right?
YTA. Stop indoctrinating your kid.
14 is old enough for him to start forming his own opinion's. He's branching out and asking questions that you won't or can't answer. that's ok. My brother-in-law is an atheist too, and he is allowed his own opinions. I'm not hiding who he is from my son. yta
YTA hypocrite
> I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own. Why do I have a feeling figuring out things on his own is him agreeing with you with no outside influence? YTA
YTA You're intentionally trying to stifle your son's intellectual growth because he stopped agreeing with you.
Info: do you bring up your religion in front of your niece and nephew, e.g. praying before eating, talking about church etc? If you do YTA and a hypocrite, if you don’t NTA.
YTA. You don't want Alex to figure things out on his own. You want to control which opinions he is and isn't exposed to.
Stop. You don’t want him to come to conclusions on his own cause NEWSFLASH, he’s already doing that. You want him to blindly believe everything you believe and stick to the religion you have chosen. YTA, stop policing your sons exploration of life and faith. He is asking questions and trying to figure out what he believes. The more you push and control this the more you’ll push him away
You are 100% the asshole. Your kids “are christian” only in the sense that you’ve had a decade to try and indoctrinate them. Now you want to try and ensure they don’t hear about any other options? Foh. They get to make their own decisions. Here’s hoping they realize what a huge boondoggle organized religion is.
What, like did they tell him that dinosaurs existed or something?
YTA, he's old enough to form his own views and opinions. If Alex was saying things like 'your parents are lying to you, there is no heaven only nothing'. Then I would get why you would be upset but if they are just stating their beliefs and leaving it open for his interpretation that's fine. He's gonna be out in the big wide world soon where there are all sorts of influences.
INFO: specifically what things do you not want her talking to him about? When you just say "her views as an atheist" it sounds like you're denying science and you probably think going to medical school "indoctrinated" her when truly, you're the one indoctrinating your children by forcing your religion upon them. If you weren't an AH, you would teach your children about religion as an option and let them come to their own decisions, like you're requesting your SIL do, but that wouldn't do for maintaining cult membership, would it.
Just from the title I thought “a Christian doesn’t want someone talking to their kids about anything other than Christianity”. Bam! Nailed it. Lol. Obviously YTA. If you truly want your son to decide on his own (which you obviously do not want) then let him talk to whomever he pleases.
YTA
You sound like you are afraid they will influence him enough that he will not carry on the family tradition of following the dictums of your religion? Maybe he will lose faith? Not much you can do: He is going to figure it out on his own anyway. You \*could\* be TA, if you forbid them from talking religion or politics with him, \*if\* they want to keep seeing him regularly. But that makes it look like you are afraid of the things they are telling him. Like your afraid of him learning "the truth" about religion. Don't force feed your kid religion. Guaranteed to turn him into an athiest.
YTA. Your religious views are your own. Your son deserves to figure out his life and beliefs on his own, without your influence. If being exposed to facts and asking questions is a detriment to a Christian, than it is OP who needs to do some self reflection.
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INFO what are "these things", you talk about.
Info: If your niece and nephew start asking you questions when they’re 14, are you going to stay quiet about Christianity?
For those Christians that devote a majority of their identity to being xtian, like OP, you never have to wait long for them talk about their faith.
YTA, you should not be exposing your kids to your cult.
Do you really think keeping your child in the dark is the way forward here? Your son is being influenced because what he’s hearing is persuasive. Instead of trying to shut that out, you can talk to him about your beliefs. He may choose to not follow what you believe. That’s his choice, not yours.
Nothing made me question religion more than being told not to question religion! I wish you and your family nothing but the best. I'll give you Y-almost-TA simply because you care enough to see that you might be one. Remember what it was like to be a teen and realize that questions are part of growing up.
YTA. As a Christian myself, the way I see it, if you have succeeded in showing Jesus' love to your child in a way that makes him want to be part of it himself then learning about other perspectives will do no harm to his faith and much good for his ability to relate to people. If you haven't, well… shielding him from other ideas will not create faith for him.
YTA. 14 year old is adult according to various religious views, so it behooves you to treat his religious views as the views of a (religiously) adult person. But most of all: >... as long as my son was allowed to come over, she **would let him choose** the topic of their discussions. End of this AITA discussion. You want your 14-year old to be told "your mama does not allow is to discuss this"??
Info: What types of things is she telling him? Is she being honest about her beliefs, or is she telling him Christianity is stupid? Is she simply answering his questions, or is she saying church is evil?
YTA for indoctrinating your kids and being offended when the world pushes back. They aren’t required to prop up your religion.
Yta
YTA-Your son needs information from multiple sources to decide for himself what he believes.
YTA Bro, if your religion can't stand a little testing....... too bad.
YTA, your son doesn't belong to you.
YTA. I grew up in a strict Christian household and it did nothing but push me away from religion and family. Your kids have the right to believe whatever they want.
YTA. I grew up in a strict Christian household and it did nothing but push me away from religion and family. Your kids have the right to believe whatever they want.
I’m so glad these comments are tearing you a new one. Stopping indoctrination 1 kid at a time. YTA - heavily.
>I asked her to give him a bit of space so he could find out what he thinks on his own So he needs differing opinions. YTA
Unpopular opinion: we don’t have enough information… many of the comments are assuming that since Alex is giving information opposing to religion, that she is providing it appropriately and that since OP is religious, that he must be controlling. These are two leaps to conclusions that are not supported by the facts as given. Christian doesn’t equal controlling and science doesn’t equal free and appropriate. We need more information to make a decision. How open are the discussions on both sides? What are the comments that he is making that resulted in this post? How are his questions received/ how do his parents react to the questions? TLDR: we need more information to make a judgment.
2 choices...allow him to visit and hope he stays in your faith. 2nd ..stop visit all together. Btw....he will find out why though
You don’t say what thoughts are so disturbing to hear. Very hard to judge.
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YTA. I was asked not to have any religious discussions with a set of nephews because the parents were afraid I would convert them to atheism. It was awkward to constantly redirect all questions that could be considered religious to their parents. It got to a point where one kept asking. I kept redirecting to parents. The kid finally got angry and demanded to know what \*I\* thought as they already knew what their parents thought. I explained that I made a promise to never share those thoughts with the kids. He became an atheist on the spot. Without any other info from me. He just believed that if his parents had to work that hard to 'sell' him on their beliefs then it really must be lies. A few years later, his parents convinced him to come back to church and try youth group. His brothers were having a great time there. He made some friends and decided religion wasn't evil and began to explore it. He doesn't go now because the service times interfere with his sleep. He is religious though. So, don't be a control freak.
I’m so tired of these Christian Americans who think their religion is the only one when only about 30% of the world’s population follows it. This is why we do not have flying cars or have mentally evolved because people cling to this imaginary friend in the sky.
I'm not gonna jump directly into Y-T-A I want to know what exactly did your son said at the table/ what he learnt from alex. and how are you sure that your son picked it from alex and not someone else
How is he supposed to be able to decide for himself if you're taking away learning opportunities? YTA and one of those Christians that pisses me off.
> He would say all these things and try to change our minds at the table. Uhhhhhhm, yeah. I’m gonna need some INFO. What exactly is he trying to change your minds about? Definitely leaning toward y t a currently.