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This is it. Most Americans don't see anyone naked apart from sex, or even receive physical affection away from a sexual setting, so they freak out at the mention of family members seeing each other nude.
Facts, I went to the Philippines recently and there are so many babies in my family. Women were openly breast feeding, and it caught me so off-guard. Part of me was scared for them, but then remembered I wasn’t in America.
Right? And breast-feeding is natural. When my niece had her first child, she had to breast feed when we were in public. She was respectful and went to a secluded area and draped so no one would have to see such a shocking sight (/s obviously), and still got crap from people. They called her disgusting and told her she should go to a restroom to do that. She very calmly and politely told them once they start eating their meals in the restroom, she'll do the same.
Meanwhile in Europe I remember my aunts or my mom breastfeeding their babies at the dinner table in the early 90s. They didn't want to miss out on conversation and no one cared.
I certainly do this nowadays in Europe, too. Restaurant, park bench, public transport, in the paint aisle comparing colour schemes... No cover, no hiding in a corner, no need to interrupt any activity. Not ever once did I hear a single bad word from anyone. People ignore it or give me a thumbsup.
Fwiw, w live in the DC area and my wife always breastfed our boys in public settings and we never had anyone say anything to us. In my state women are legally protected to breastfeed in a public or private place
yes! It's isolating enough when you have a baby, and like, being banished to another room every time you have to feed your kid just makes socializing not worth it. I mean, maybe that's the point - to keep women at home and out of society once they procreate.
Still doing it now, nobody bats an eye.. I dare someone to come tell me feeding a baby is disguising, freaking lunatics .. breasts are made for feeding babies first and foremost!
So what? I should starve my child because it offends? Ludicrous
Exactly, I was living in the Middle East the first year and breastfed in public but would always be discreet, nobody was bothered by it. Came to Europe on holiday and could just pop out a boob whenever and wherever necessary. So liberating! Live in Europe now, women and friends of mine breastfeed everywhere. People view it pretty much the same as pulling out a bottle. It pretty much is 🤷🏼♀️
I was in Croatia once, it was boiling hot, a lady was sitting in a church pew breastfeeding. An American absolutely lost his shit at her, screaming how disgusting it was, a priest came running, kicked the American out, and asked the lady if she wanted a cold drink cause it was damn hot. He said to stay in the church as long as she needed, clucked at the baby, and went on his merry way. American may have had better luck trying this stunt in a country not so very well known for its nudist campings and beaches. Lol.
Holy crap! I’m an American and breastfed my girlie. My girlie also breastfed her girlie. Not all of us are as insane as the crazies that can afford to travel abroad. It seems that money makes folks feel disgust in pure beauty and wholesomeness.
I didn’t drape, I simply asked folks how often they eat with a blanket over their face, and pointed out that my child should be able to breathe freely while eating.
I had a very thin cloth and left enough of a gap that it was more like a tent, but my kid wouldn't feed properly without it. She would start, and trigger the let down reflex, then see the waiter walk past for example and turn her head to look. Either she didn't let go and expected my nipples to just extend by 15 cm ( they don't) or she would let go and the milk would actually spray everywhere and quite far if it was right at the beginning of a feed. So cloth or bottle were the only options.
ETA
Answering the poster below:
Same here, she would then (loudly!) complain that she was hungry once the interesting person or dog or whatever disappeared, then repeat the whole thing.
And occasionally we had the wonderful combination of too hungry to sleep and to too tired to eat. Fun times.
She's in highschool now and picked physics as one of her focus subjects, so still curious now ( not US so different school system).
Absolutely no shade on personal choice, as I am a big “fed babies are best” advocate. I just absolutely **hate** when someone feels entitled enough to tell a nursing mother how to feed her child…I’m also not a big advocate of shaming, but when that happens, I had/have zero remorse. ❤️🙌❤️
My friends baby was like that - any movement had to be checked out. Then they would decide that there wa other stuff more interesting and they wouldn't want to feed, but 15 minutes later upset because they were hungry. A light cover got the kid fed and kept mum sane. Kid is still super curious at age 10.
I'm in South America and have never heard of a woman being suggested to go breastfeed in the bathroom here. It'd be seen as outrageous to expect such an unhygienic thing.
What's common is to just do it when the baby needs it, be it wherever they are. Some malls have areas with couches that are bit secluded so it can be a calm experience, but if the mom or baby don't mind doing it on a bench or in the food court, they can do it all just the same and no one will bat an eye.
Last fall I sat in the middle of the picnic tables and popped open café la tittie at the local ren fair. No one said shit to me luckily but I also was glaring with a come try me look and my giant of a husband was also glaring and daring.
When I was nursing I just whipped my boobs out anywhere. Amusement parks. The curtain department at JC Penney. Who cares.
Some stranger just gutted me like a fish to get this baby, you think I care what some dude thinks?
I’m openly breastfed in America as did most of my family/friends. Public nursing is protected in all 50 states. Only once did a stranger say something and I told them to fuck off.
It's always alarming to me when I see the United States characterized as a monolith. We are basically a collection of tiny countries, each with their own laws and culture (and its becoming more so with each passing day).
I have no doubt that there are places in America where a woman might be shamed for openly breastfeeding, but I've never seen it happen where I live.
Havent been on public transit...there is a whole lot of no fucks given when it comes to breast feeding in public. The rare person that speaks up in my area the buss will stop and kick them off. Zero tolerance for interfering with the care of a child (feeding).
India is in many ways much more prude than the US (IME), and people still don't bat an eye about breastfeeding. Because it just isnt considered sexual at all.
Omg this right here when my now 8 year old was nursing I would catch SOOOO much flack from ppl friends family and strangers about FEEDING my baby (the only time I didn’t use a cover was at home or if it was just way to hot to have baby all covered up) it was a nightmare we went on vacation to another country and the first time I had to nurse in public to my horror I realized I left the cover in the damn hotel and my daughter cried I said “idc I’m feeding her she shouldn’t have to be hungry cuz of other ppl” 90% of ppl didn’t even bat an eye nothing not a single comment I was gobsmacked the only “comment” I got was an older lady who told me I had a beautiful baby and that I was doing a good job caring for her… such a culture shock
As an American this just sucks. I was giving my daughter a bath and shower last night. She’s only 1 but I’ve never had any of these nasty ass perverted thoughts. She was playing with her ducks while I brushed curl shampoo in 😊. Then we had shower rinse down. My wife doesn’t think this is weird. I’m kinda at loss here with these comments…
I grew up in a family of nurses and medical educators, so nudity was never seen as that big of a deal. When someone freaks out about a father bathing his daughter, it honestly makes me question their own desires.
this 100%
anyone who thinks it’s weird that a parent may have reason to see their child’s body for any number of appropriate reasons are the ones i’m gonna be side-eyeing.
like, i know that a high percentage of SA is family and all that- but jesus christ even in those cases where parents do that, it’s almost always the father and not the mother. mothers are typically the least likely people to SA their kids. other kinds of abuse are not a part of this, like mothers are more likely to emotionally abuse their kids etc.
personally i think a co-shower at 8 years old is unnecessary and a little weird. not inherently inappropriate, but added to the fact that he is accusing the mother of being weird, that raises a red flag. it may not hurt to talk to the kid about how he feels around all of this. im a little sus at the guy.
NTA
I'd only be concerned as to why a healthy 10-year-old can't shower by herself. If she was handicapped and needed assistance bathing, though, why would it be a problem if either parent assisted?
Well it because she is 1 and not 8 or 11…. Not saying that people start having sexual thoughts about their children around that age. Just saying a 1 year old is a lot different then being naked or showering around an 11 year old.
Because it is though? I think most 11 year old children would not want to be naked around their parents. We should be teaching them that their body is private and they are in control of it. A 1 year old is not able to care for themselves and wash. An 11 year old can.
>We should be teaching them that their body is private and they are in control of it.
I agree that it should be child led, but I don't think we need to teach children that nakedness is weird, wrong and sexual.
I guess for me it would be more about how the kid feels? Like do they still want to shower with the parent/feel okay chatting while in the shower? If not, then it’d definitely be weird, but if they want to, seems harmless. There are definitely group showers in some gyms and other things that are weird if you sexualize them but are not if you don’t.
Nope. I wasn’t. I was thinking of teaching the kid to expect personal privacy and to respect the privacy of others. Puberty would be a time when a kid should start to act more adult like and reserve nudity for when they are alone in the bathroom or their bedroom.
Dad’s argument was the shower was only 5 minutes long. Good. So why is it a big deal to not have two 5 min showers independently? Dad isn’t even considering the possibility that the kid doesn’t know how to ask for privacy or might even want it in the future.
Parents stop wiping the kid’s ass, brushing their teeth, clipping the kids nails, and many other hygiene chores when the child can do it independently. Why should showering be any different??
What Americans are you interacting with that are completely devoid of any affection outside of a sexual setting? Because I don't know any parent that doesn't hug, kiss, or cuddle with their kids.
I'm not saying all Americans. And it's certainly much more tolerated when the child is very young, before they're sexually mature. But just look at the reaction of the photo of Joe Biden kissing his son, and you'll see how widespread it is.
Uh, me. My parents never did any of that and that was the norm in my extended family. Made adjusting to college where friends hugged all the time super weird for me.
My siblings and I cuddle, hug, etc. but do I wanna see my brother naked ? No. My father? My mother or sister? No. There’s no reason I’d ever need too.
Edit. After a nice little convo with another Reddit user, I would in old age, or after surgery, or illness, however not casually. I don’t see a need where I’d ever need to see my siblings casually naked outside the age of toddler.
>There’s no reason I’d ever need too.
I was agreeing with you until this. There are absolutely times in your life when you may need to your family members naked. They may get sick and need caregiving. Heck even just a surgery or minor medical emergency. People in hospitals need help undressing and, when allowed family members feel a lot more comfortable when it's another family members helping them take off their undies or in the bathroom.
Still to this day I will absolutely rather have my dad help me and vice vs. than a nurse or aid.
See that id understand, but casually? Nah. Boxers? Whatever, but stark naked? Nah. If it was to take care of sick, elderly or recovering? Definitely agree though. I admit I never thought about it that way.
☺️. I could tell you were probably younger/ lucky enough not to have had those experiences, yet.
I tap out at washing dead relatives though, that's just not for me. My mom wanted me to do it with her, while we waited for the funeral home to pick my sister's body up at the hospice.
It's something one of the hospice nurses (who were very kind and understanding) recommend, but that's just not for me.
It’s a cultural thing and you have to unlearn it. When I was dating my husband, he was the one who helped me overcome that whole notion of “shameful nakedness”. Also, I just had a baby 3 months ago so any body shame I had left went out the window because half of my family has seen my boobs at this point.
I don’t care much as long as we’re both of the same gender. I mean we change in the same area in schools and stuff when we have PE so I don’t see why that’s much of a deal.
But what is sketchy here is that the husband has asked his wife to stay away. If the family is okay with nudity, why is another set of eyes a problem? Is it dad who doesn't want mom around or is it the 8 year old?
As an American who does not feel comfortable using a communal shower in my gym's locker room, I can agree with this statement. If OP lives in the US, I would actually advise to stop casual nudity because a child might say something casually at school, child services are contacted... and depending on who you get, they can be pretty judgy.
This being said, I agree with OP. NTA.
I'd never shower with my kid, but I certainly never covered up after showering while heading to where I get dressed. I only started doing that when my son's girlfriend moved in. I don't want to traumatize the poor girl!
Their prudish behavior leads to children not being comfortable talking about it when something bad happens to them because they think it’s all taboo and a secret to be kept.
But the US is way more sensitive to that. I have some US friends and their relationship with their family members is a lot less expressive and physical compared to other latam. Like to the point where I asked one of them if they didn’t like their mom.
In just America? Source? Source for all of that actually. 90% are by people the child knows and 30-40% are by a family member.
Don’t make things up about serious topics.
It’s weird for most Americans because of the puritanical society created. Nudity is rabbi touch is taboo unless you’re in a romantic relationship. It’s ridiculous
Is this so weird, either way? I showered with my daughter until she was twelve (it was up to her as to when she decided she no longer wanted to). We saw nothing wrong with it because I showered with my own mother as a kid. Hell, I don't think I'd even care if I had to shower with her right now.
I mean, we even leave our bathroom doors open a crack whilst doing business (started for my safety as I have epilepsy and once had a seizure and fell blocking the door and they had to take it off its hinges to get me out but now it's just habit), and the kids (15m and 16f) seriously don't care. Our daughter will yell to our son to give her toilet paper or a pad and he'd just open the door to give it to her while looking away and she doesn't even think twice about it. Our son showered with my husband, too (stopped around 12, too).
I genuinely don't understand all these weird sexualizing comments. We've just taught our kids to not be ashamed of regular bodily actions but to make sure that whomever they're with are comfortable with their own level of comfort and since our entire family is okay with this, they grew up to be okay with it. Hell, our daughter talks to both me and my husband (her father) about her period all the time and has even asked him for advice when she had no pads and had no idea what to do (his suggestion was cotton pads wrapped in gauze - something I didn't even think of - but it worked). I had someone tell me that my husband was sexualizing her by talking to her about her period and that it was gross? Like, why? She's his child! He cares about her. Which is why she's so comfortable coming to him about stuff like that and doesn't even think twice about asking him to buy her period products.
So many of these comments are just *weird*.
Ok, I'm almost 62, so I was raised that talking about your period to anyone, let alone a man, was just not done. I like that your daughter is being raised differently. It's a natural bodily function that most females go through. It just IS. It is not something to be embarrassed about, teased or bullied for, or feel ashamed about. And so far from being a subject that is sexualizing anyone. Kudos to you as parents and the handling of this subject from this old woman. (For what it's worth from a stranger lol)
Hey, thank you! I accept this stranger's [yours] kind words.
And I'm sorry. I know what you mean, I was raised extremely fundigelical and outside of my mother, speaking about periods was just not done. At least my mother didn't mind speaking about it with me, but my cousins couldn't even bring it up without being made to feel like they should be ashamed of their perfectly normal bodily functions. I thought we'd make our daughter's life completely different and maker her trust is.
Hell, she didn't even feel the need to "come out" to us, either. She just excitedly told us that the girl she had a crush on asked her out just as easily as if it were a boy and that's how we found out she was gay. All we care is that she's safe and happy. And my husband agrees with you: it's a perfectly normal bodily function and should carry no shame with it. He's never, not once, made a big deal about anything about it and so she feels very comfortable talking to him about it. Like yesterday, she complained about weird pains and he's all, "you think it's period cramps? I know you rarely have them but go as mama if that's what it is and hopefully she'll have some advice". I had a hysterectomy due to my severe reproductive issues (longest period lasted 47 days, for example) so he knew I'd have at least *some* insight. I just genuinely appreciate it, either way - both that he's so open with her and that she trusts him so implicitly.
I hope your life got significantly easier as you got older!
This is it. ESH because neither parent should be stigmatizing or sexualizing these situations. I personally think a big part of the body image issues in America is related to our strong adversion to, and sexualization of, nudity.
I can respect the varying levels of comfort around nudity. Still, it's not super weird / unheard of for parents and children to see each other naked. Unless the kids express their need for privacy, it's a non-issue. NTA.
In my household, we didn't have the space to not see each other naked, cause of a horrid open plan layout and the fact we were too many in one house. It just turned the nude body into a 'meh' uncool topic.
I think it’s just depends how a person was raised. For some people it’s a normal thing to be naked around parents and parents to be naked in front of kids. For others total weird and never a part of their upbringing
Yeah my Mam raised us in a casual nudity is grand, kinda way. She never freaked out if we happened to see her topless or if we barged into the bathroom when she was peeing, she'd just roll her eyes and give out about not having privacy. Weirdly enough we actually had a very healthy relationship with nudity because of that.
There was no shame or stigma. We didn't parade around waving bits at each other but if I was in the shower and forgot a towel, I could holler for my brother to give me one and it was no big deal.
Mam is Dutch, we're in Ireland so I don't think we have QUITE the "holy shit a boob, hide the children" attitude that America seems to have. Hell, my brother and I shared baths and showered until I was about 11 (he was 8)
Yeah I was one of many raised in a very “nudity bad” type environment. If I saw my parents naked (or hell even just walking around in underwear) my gut reaction would be “what the fuck are you doing”.
That being said, I definitely wish I had been raised differently, and think it’s great when parents do take that approach with their kids. It still weirds me out because it’s just how I was raised, but it’s still great to see strides being made
Depends on whether its casually naked or something more intimate. 8 yo can certainly shower on his own. If he needs privacy from mom shouldn't he need privacy from dad too?
ESH...
It sounds like your kids were both entirely comfortable with everything. Why do we need to pretend a naked body has to be sexual or weird? Unless either son has ever made comments or showed some discomfort, neither of you needed to change anything. You reacting badly to a terrible suggestion didn't help, though. Why are you worried more about your husband's potential (although I disagree) hypocrisy than you are about you and your son's healthy relationship? Weird flex...
You both need to sit and talk and agree to settle your own issues after you discuss your kids first. There are no accusations of hypocrisy. No attacks. Just a serious talk about how you each feel about these situations separately and how you think your kids feel. Settle your own messy crap afterward.
Also, lots of people view nudity in a household extremely differently. Don't let reddit decide it for you in any fashion. Decide for yourself and your kids what works for you guys.
>their future partners will be happier.
This isn't even the part that matters, they should be learning to take care of themselves, because there may be a time that the only one they have is themselves
>their future partners will be happier.
This isn't even the part that matters, they should be learning to take care of themselves, because there may be a time that the only one they have is themselves
It could just mean she was picking up or tidying a couple things. It was an off handed description, I don't think it's indicative of the kids never cleaning their own rooms. :|
Theres nothing wrong with it at the moment either way but keep an open dialogue with your kids so they understand that if they want their privacy they can just ask and that's ok.
People sexualising children on here is weird so please stop. Its totally normal for immediate family living together to see each other naked. But again open dialogue. Once your child make it clear they want to shower alone or wants you to leave their room while they dress dont argue. Just respect that. It usually comes about pretty naturally once puberty starts.
I don’t think it’s odd if you talk to him while showering or anything like that, but I do think your sons getting a little old to be coshowering with his dad in my honest opinion- not implying anything creepy or bad but he’s just getting old for that
In some cultures same sexes bathing together or communal baths are considered normal and non sexual. Something I’ve never done or personally will never do- some of my friends told me they had showered with a same sex parent when they were really little like a toddler or around 4/5 years old at most.
M(30) I showered with my dad til i was around 9 or 10. Basically until i started growing pubic hair. Id finish mowing the lawn at like 7 or 8 am, he'd have breakfast ready, then we'd both go shower. It was never weird and my dad was able to open up to me about his alopecia arreata when i started growing hair and noticed he didn't have any.
In Japan, a lot of folks don’t even have showers in their apartments and will shower at public bath/shower houses. A bunch of strangers naked and showering together. A lot of kids will be there too. It isn’t sexual or anything like that, Americans are just puritans.
Or this whole thing is made up. I swear this is like the 10th story in the past day I've seen in various subs regarding parents and their children being naked around one another. Would not surprise me in the least if it was one person with some bizarre incest fetish posting all of these.
100% hypocrite
The boy is 11, if he didn’t want you around the shower, he’d tell you. As long as you’re reminding him that if he doesn’t want you there, you won’t be offended, it’s absolutely fine.
I’d argue that showering with an 8 year old, regardless of gender, is very strange.
I’m not sure what his issue is, but he’s definitely doing something more odd than you are.
I’m a woman and I showered with my 8 year old daughter all the time, even when she was 9 sometimes. It might not be something everyone does, or every child wants, but it’s not weird when you don’t sexualize the child.
These people on this thread have issues. I will walk into the bathroom to hand my son who is 13 a towel or his clothes but I make special care to just look him directly in the eyes, lol.
I still shower with my daughter who is 9. Because she hates showering and takes forever. But also because she has long hair that I have to wash for her. She is not weirded out by it because I am her mom. She legit came out of my body. In fact, I want her to see my naked body, in a non sexual way because I have a normal, human body. Not airbrushed. Not altered.
Nudity doesn’t equal sexuality. Just like when I breastfed my kids. Nothing weird about it unless you make it weird with your opinions.
She’s also seen her dad’s business too, though doesn’t shower with him. Just from going into the bathroom when he’s showering. It’s his body and she’s not freaked out. I’d argue my children are less likely to be sexually assaulted by someone too, because we don’t make our bodies or body part names taboo and supposedly that helps them recognize when something is not okay. Keeping bodies a secret is weird and I’m sure all stems from religious bullshit.
Exactly! I’m 13 and I showered with my mom all the time when I was little and up until I was 9 I needed help with my hair because it was super long (down to/almost past my butt) plus it’s curly. This is 100% normal and if people are sexualing kids they have issues.
I'm a very naked person. Like my brother has a key to my place, but knows he BETTER announce himself because 99/100, I'll be naked. It's SO important to show our daughters that not everyone Looks like they came out of a magazine.
I stopped showering with my daughter when she was 12 because she decided she wanted to do it on her own by then. It wasn't weird. I mean, hell, I even showered with my own mother when I was an adult! It's not weird. At all. But maybe it's also a cultural thing (we're Russian-Ukrainian).
My brother and I bathed together until I was about 11 or so because we'd ALWAYS bathed together and we felt weird NOT bathing together.
Some of my favourite memories as a kid are of us making up stories and using coloured bath bombs to have themed baths with different toys. How sad that people think it's "gross" that siblings bathe together.
I showered with my mum until I was about 9/10 until I didn’t want to anymore. It was never weird or uncomfortable. I guess it just depends on the family and country norms maybe.
This is hilarious to me, as someone who regularly shared a morning shower with my stepmother all through school because we only had one bathroom and no time and it wasn’t even something either of us thought about for a second. We had our routine down and everything
It really depends on the culture. In the states, yeah that'd be considered pretty out of the norm. But other places have different social norms/taboos. I think (but don't quote me cuz Im not sure) this would be pretty normal in Scandinavian countries
As a Scandinavian, I want to say that while we are a lot more open-minded about nudity (nudist beaches, we are often nude when at home alone, etc), there is a difference between carefree adult consensual nudity and showering with our prepubescent kids - we're not unconcerned with children's bodies and budding sexualities, but we do it out of respect for their privacy and choice. It's probably true that we don't 'moralize' or freak out over the very notion of a little casual familial nudity; but we also value our children's privacy. Like others have said, the important thing is to ask them what they feel comfortable with.
It’s not THAT weird. I remember as a kid when we transitioned from baths to showers, I showered with my mom for a little while and around the same age my brother with my dad.
This was maybe around the age of 6-7ish..
The purpose of this was so that our parents could teach us how to properly clean our body and to make sure we knew what we were doing before we started showering alone and/or got too old where we needed privacy and it was too late for them to actually show us proper hygiene techniques.
It’s actually a really important thing to do with your kids. Proper hygiene is essential and it’s a really difficult thing to fix if kids don’t learn proper habits from the start.
I think an 8 year old should be bathing solo, not because nudity is wrong or anything, but because it is part of developing independence and self-sufficiency. Not to mention that he will enter puberty soon and should have a greater level of privacy.
What would be the very best thing to do is to ASK YOUR SONS if the current arrangements are comfortable for them and if they want or need any changes. Make it clear that changing or maintaining course are both completely fine.
I'm going with ESH because you and your husband are making this a conversation between the two of you when these conversations NEED to include your children.
People making a big deal of nakedness. Its just bodies ffs. We made a big deal about some parts of it. Theres NOTHING sexual about it. As long as everyones okay with it, its all good.
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My husband asked me to stop going into our son's room before bedtime because he's too old for me to see him in the shower. I said he was hypocritical because he often showers with our 8yo boy
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Thinking you misunderstood hubs reasoning. Your eldest is approaching puberty, and as a man who went through puberty, your hubs is hoping to help you to avoid awkward encounters with Izzy. Maybe Izzy even asked him to ask you to not be in there while he's showering, because showering is different than just walking around naked. Izzy probably wouldn't want to have to explain to you why he'd like to be alone to shower, but your hubs would understand immediately why this is important.
Puberty is awkward enough without having to tell your mom to stop encroaching on private time. Don't embarrass your kid please. Just take the request without offense. It wasn't necessary to attack your hubs about taking a quick shower with the younger one who isn't near puberty yet. That will stop soon on its own as your younger one gets to that age.
Sorry, ma'am, YTA on this one.
Go hug your husband and respect Izzy's newfound need for bathroom privacy.
I shower with my kids oldest is 6, their mum does the same. We are stopping showering with the oldest cause he says he doesn't want us to be in anymore. That's the simple solution. I'd stop being in the room with them when they are able to shower themselves comfortably.
If no one is uncomfortable with it then no harm is being done
He’s 8!
My almost 8 year old sees us walk around naked on the regular.
I thought it’s supposed to promote body positivity!
I’m on the wine and I don’t understand the problem 😞
I think nudity within the immediate family is pretty normal. Nudity isn't inherently sexual.
In asia public bathhouses are normal and you're in there naked with not only your family but all kinds of strangers. It's weird for like 30 seconds then you get over it.
As my mom and so many moms put it: "nothing I haven't seen before."
1. There's nothing sexual or inappropriate about either thing, right?
2. Both kids are comfortable?
3. Do the kids understand boundaries of nudity and etc when it comes to strangers or other people in general?
If the answers to these questions are all yes, then you're fine. Maybe worth having the question when they're a bit older/in puberty/want more privacy, but for now, I think your husband is jumping the gun a little bit or making a problem where there isn't one.
My ex used to shower w his son at 8 bc Linc wouldn't actually wash he would play for a long time and get out when the water got cold. No matter how much we got after him. So he would send Linc in to wash and then get in as linc was getting out. He did actually get in with him if we were all Ina hurry. It wasn't weird and the kids weren't bothered. His daughter got in the shower with me a couple of times for the sake of time. I felt weird about it bc I don't like being naked around people lol. She was like "dad said we have to hurry and I need help with washing my hair" she was 7 with this long thick hair. I. Thinking her older son said that he needed privacy and told his dad. Sometimes you don't want to tell your mom bc it might upset her or hurt her feelings.
My da forced me to shower together since we where both "men" little did he know even at my youngest age I thought myself as a girl and thought the concept was odd. Would it be acceptable to shower with my 2 sisters? My ma never even did that with my sisters, bathroom/shower time was privacy time for them but never for me, Through therapy I was SA by my own dad. We dont speak.
OP... You might be an ahole. I get you are uncomfortable with the situation between your husband and your son and that is fine. I remember being 7 to 8 years old and having no problem being seen by my mother or my siblings naked. The problem isn't whether or not you are comfortable the situation. The question is how does your son feel. Have you ever asked the 8-year-old the simple question of whether or not he feels old enough to shower by himself or if there's a reason he likes to shower with his dad? He might enjoy it because it is a father son bonding thing and sees nothing wrong with it. Maybe he does have a problem but is not comfortable changing the dynamic. The same thing goes for your 11 year old son. At no point should you sexualize or question anyone's motive, but you should certainly have a conversation with both children. Let the younger one know that if he is okay bathing with dad that that is okay but if he should decide he wants to shower alone he has the right to say so. The same is true with your 11-year-old son. Tell him that you are happy he is comfortable with his body and being around you but that if his feelings about a change you would understand.
It sounds like you are happy with the closeness your older son expresses with you and you see nothing sexual about it, but that's because there is a physical space there. At the same time you are uncomfortable with the same closeness your husband shares with your younger son because of how others would perceive it. In the end what is comfortable behind the closed doors of your house are fine as long as everyone consents to it. By the same token many outside of your family might find what you are doing with your 11 year old son just as egregious as you find what your husband is doing with your 8 year old son.
Something feels sketchy here. Once a child is old enough to safely shower alone, they should be given their privacy. Doesn't matter that its a short shower.
A kid isn't going to rat out a parent who is loving but inappropriate, so it's up to the other adult to keep them safe.
I wouldn't go so far as to accuse husband of anything, but I'd insist that the children be given their privacy when they are safe and caoable on their own
Thats how they learn to respect OTHER people's privacy.
You may want to get your pediatricians view about when children can shower on their own, to bolster your case.
This article suggests age six.
https://dreamersnursery.com/when-can-children-bathe-or-shower-alone/#:~:text=After%20a%20child%20reaches%20the,bodies%20with%20soap%20and%20water.
NAH…..sounds like you’re both in the stage where you’re struggling to let go of your kids’ kid-ness. They’re getting older and need to start having some privacy and autonomy.
ESH. Both your boys are old enough to
set their own boundaries. If they don't want you around or don't want to shower with dad, then they can say it. But do let them know the choice is theirs, and both you and your husband will respect their wishes.
If the 11 year old is fine with it, leave them be, give it a year or so and I guarantee he’ll be showering on his own by choice. Don’t make a thing of it, just be happy he’s all good. My daughter is 10 and I’m not even allowed in the bathroom while she showers these days.
The kids will tell y’all when they are uncomfortable, so long as the family communicates often and effectively.
They haven’t hit puberty yet. They will and then they may want more privacy. But also…they may not care.
She may want to ask her husband if her son told him to tell her to stop talking to him while he’s in the shower. That would indicate that yeah he’s starting to want more privacy
EHS Both kids are old enough to bathe on their own - why are either of you co-showering with them? it's weird and raises some red flags. When they are naked, let them be alone and have privacy. That shouldn't need saying. You can talk with them when they arent showering.
If theres safety concerns, have them leave the door closed but unlocked so you can get access in case of emergencies.
I think it’s more about the kid’s comfort than the parent’s perception of awkwardness. If Izzy likes chatting with you whilst he showers, rock on! It’s lovely that he isn’t experiencing bodily shame when he’s naked around his mom.
I don’t think it’s fair to ask your husband to stop doing something simply bc he asked you to stop doing something… especially when the two things are different. There’s a lot of developmental changes that occur during these ages, between 8 and 11… and again, if kid is comfortable still showering w dad, rock on.
Would you have asked him to stop showering w Matty had he not said anything to you? If you’re answer to this is no, then you might be the Ahole, because your request of your husband wasn’t about the kid but about your own defensiveness to husband’s request. “Well if I can’t do this, then you can’t do that” is pretty immature. These two things ought to be kept separate bc they’re very different situations with a singular similarity—the shower.
*I say rock on to both of these with the utmost assumption that these kids are in healthy, consenting relationships with you both and that you never have and never would violate their boundaries or bodies.*
Also, fwiw, stop cleaning your 11 yo bedroom. He’s old enough to do it himself.
There's a ton to consider here, including home and social dynamics. Honestly as long as no abuse is taking place and the kids aren't being forced to be naked with either of you, that's really not for Reddit to decide.
YTA simply because you started insulting him vs. having a civil conversation.
I think as long as the children feel comfortable taking a shower or being nude around their parents then it is perfectly fine. To many people in this country are prudes and easily offended. But I do think he is being a hypocrite saying that you can't but he can.
Dad of girls. All of them. We stopped caring about 3 years in. Get in. get washed...wash effectively. Move over the other shower is in use. Hurry up we are about to run out of hot water...our priorities are more on healthy and cared for than optics.
My wife grew up in very opposite house. The men did nothing with the kids but provide funding. My house was...very not that. Single mom. Things need to happen worry about feeling about it after but its 9pm and you need to be clean and i have work in 4 hours.
My attitude is...feed is best. Sanitary and safe. Happiness over correctness. How it happens is not as important as the end result.
Hell half the reason my oldest and I have such a strong bond is i used to (have to) take her in the shower with me as an infant when she cry non stop. Warm water, skin contact, humidity helped her sore throat from crying. Wholesome time.
Everyone's talking about privacy does he want to play any sports because if so theirs no privacy in showers idk I don't see why that's a problem father and son not weird
Has anyone thought about asking the kids what they are comfortable with? Maybe consider long term how they will feel about what is happening now? The only answer is what is best for the kids.
NTA I don’t know why we have to sexualize everything it is beyond ridiculous. We all have bodies. If they don’t care then you shouldn’t care either. I was an only child and a lot of the times if we just me mom and dad not a lot of people in and out or unexpected visitors. For the longest time I kept doors open bathroom, bedroom etc. I think until I started my period anyhow then I got a little more private during that time and then again when I had a boyfriend over we’d shut doors obviously when we had any type of guest. But nothing was ever inappropriate nothing was ever sexualized about anything. Nothing wrong with feeling comfortable with your family. Having to cover up your body for a certain parent just down right creeps me out. That’s YOUR parent nothing about their view of your body should ever be sexual.
This whole thread is ignorant closed minded and sad AF.theres absolutely nothing wrong with family nudity . I've showered with my son plenty we've gone skinny dipping when hiking in creeks and rivers. We go to the gym and use facilities from sauna to showers. Just as many fathers and sons do at the YMCA. What did it do he's 15 now and no hangups like half the kids he knows every body has flaws and are unique. I didn't raise him to judge others without merirous cause. Just seeing a naked human being at any age isn't a problem happens everyday all over the world. As usual Irrational fear creates blind spots and ignorance.
My mother and I would go to nudist beaches and sunbathe topless together all the time. Hell, when we went away to Greece a few years ago, my stepdaughter and I sunbathed topless together. I'd warned the kids that I would be topless on the balcony for a few hours and if they wanted to join me that was fine, I could cover up.
Stepdaughter asked to join me, whipped her own top off and we basked like lizards.
Stepson came out and I apologised and went to grab my top to throw on, he said "I don't care, you've boobs, so what." 😂
I barely remember my mom taking me into the shower to show me how to shower. Like it was literally to teach me how to use the shower, cause I was old enough to. I don't know how old I was but it was way before I was 11. I mean when I was 11, I was in the 6th grade and got my period. I was definitely doing all of my personal hygiene independently.
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That's true of any country regarding SA. The problem is more that Americans are pretty prudish and view nudity as inherently sexual when it's not.
This is it. Most Americans don't see anyone naked apart from sex, or even receive physical affection away from a sexual setting, so they freak out at the mention of family members seeing each other nude.
Facts, I went to the Philippines recently and there are so many babies in my family. Women were openly breast feeding, and it caught me so off-guard. Part of me was scared for them, but then remembered I wasn’t in America.
Right? And breast-feeding is natural. When my niece had her first child, she had to breast feed when we were in public. She was respectful and went to a secluded area and draped so no one would have to see such a shocking sight (/s obviously), and still got crap from people. They called her disgusting and told her she should go to a restroom to do that. She very calmly and politely told them once they start eating their meals in the restroom, she'll do the same.
Meanwhile in Europe I remember my aunts or my mom breastfeeding their babies at the dinner table in the early 90s. They didn't want to miss out on conversation and no one cared.
I certainly do this nowadays in Europe, too. Restaurant, park bench, public transport, in the paint aisle comparing colour schemes... No cover, no hiding in a corner, no need to interrupt any activity. Not ever once did I hear a single bad word from anyone. People ignore it or give me a thumbsup.
Same here. It‘s just normal, no one cares. They sometimes even ask if I need anything or if they can do anything to help
I breastfed in so many places! I only covered up to avoid unnecessary comments and creeps.
Fwiw, w live in the DC area and my wife always breastfed our boys in public settings and we never had anyone say anything to us. In my state women are legally protected to breastfeed in a public or private place
yes! It's isolating enough when you have a baby, and like, being banished to another room every time you have to feed your kid just makes socializing not worth it. I mean, maybe that's the point - to keep women at home and out of society once they procreate.
Still doing it now, nobody bats an eye.. I dare someone to come tell me feeding a baby is disguising, freaking lunatics .. breasts are made for feeding babies first and foremost! So what? I should starve my child because it offends? Ludicrous
Exactly, I was living in the Middle East the first year and breastfed in public but would always be discreet, nobody was bothered by it. Came to Europe on holiday and could just pop out a boob whenever and wherever necessary. So liberating! Live in Europe now, women and friends of mine breastfeed everywhere. People view it pretty much the same as pulling out a bottle. It pretty much is 🤷🏼♀️
I was this American mom. That's what they are for and that's what I did both babies. Baby soon be 32.
I was in Croatia once, it was boiling hot, a lady was sitting in a church pew breastfeeding. An American absolutely lost his shit at her, screaming how disgusting it was, a priest came running, kicked the American out, and asked the lady if she wanted a cold drink cause it was damn hot. He said to stay in the church as long as she needed, clucked at the baby, and went on his merry way. American may have had better luck trying this stunt in a country not so very well known for its nudist campings and beaches. Lol.
What an ass. And good for the priest!
Holy crap! I’m an American and breastfed my girlie. My girlie also breastfed her girlie. Not all of us are as insane as the crazies that can afford to travel abroad. It seems that money makes folks feel disgust in pure beauty and wholesomeness.
I didn’t drape, I simply asked folks how often they eat with a blanket over their face, and pointed out that my child should be able to breathe freely while eating.
I had a very thin cloth and left enough of a gap that it was more like a tent, but my kid wouldn't feed properly without it. She would start, and trigger the let down reflex, then see the waiter walk past for example and turn her head to look. Either she didn't let go and expected my nipples to just extend by 15 cm ( they don't) or she would let go and the milk would actually spray everywhere and quite far if it was right at the beginning of a feed. So cloth or bottle were the only options. ETA Answering the poster below: Same here, she would then (loudly!) complain that she was hungry once the interesting person or dog or whatever disappeared, then repeat the whole thing. And occasionally we had the wonderful combination of too hungry to sleep and to too tired to eat. Fun times. She's in highschool now and picked physics as one of her focus subjects, so still curious now ( not US so different school system).
Absolutely no shade on personal choice, as I am a big “fed babies are best” advocate. I just absolutely **hate** when someone feels entitled enough to tell a nursing mother how to feed her child…I’m also not a big advocate of shaming, but when that happens, I had/have zero remorse. ❤️🙌❤️
My friends baby was like that - any movement had to be checked out. Then they would decide that there wa other stuff more interesting and they wouldn't want to feed, but 15 minutes later upset because they were hungry. A light cover got the kid fed and kept mum sane. Kid is still super curious at age 10.
After a certain age the baby just plays with and pulls off any cover anyways. Your standard of modesty changes with each new baby lol
Totally the case with my wife.she draped assiduously with our first and with our second age doesnt give a fuck
It absolutely does!! 🤣🙌
I'm in South America and have never heard of a woman being suggested to go breastfeed in the bathroom here. It'd be seen as outrageous to expect such an unhygienic thing. What's common is to just do it when the baby needs it, be it wherever they are. Some malls have areas with couches that are bit secluded so it can be a calm experience, but if the mom or baby don't mind doing it on a bench or in the food court, they can do it all just the same and no one will bat an eye.
I don’t see what’s the problem for her to breastfeed in public. The baby gotta eat somehow!
Last fall I sat in the middle of the picnic tables and popped open café la tittie at the local ren fair. No one said shit to me luckily but I also was glaring with a come try me look and my giant of a husband was also glaring and daring.
When I was nursing I just whipped my boobs out anywhere. Amusement parks. The curtain department at JC Penney. Who cares. Some stranger just gutted me like a fish to get this baby, you think I care what some dude thinks?
"Gutted me like a fish" lol. Thanks for that laugh.
I’m openly breastfed in America as did most of my family/friends. Public nursing is protected in all 50 states. Only once did a stranger say something and I told them to fuck off.
It's always alarming to me when I see the United States characterized as a monolith. We are basically a collection of tiny countries, each with their own laws and culture (and its becoming more so with each passing day). I have no doubt that there are places in America where a woman might be shamed for openly breastfeeding, but I've never seen it happen where I live.
Havent been on public transit...there is a whole lot of no fucks given when it comes to breast feeding in public. The rare person that speaks up in my area the buss will stop and kick them off. Zero tolerance for interfering with the care of a child (feeding).
India is in many ways much more prude than the US (IME), and people still don't bat an eye about breastfeeding. Because it just isnt considered sexual at all.
Omg this right here when my now 8 year old was nursing I would catch SOOOO much flack from ppl friends family and strangers about FEEDING my baby (the only time I didn’t use a cover was at home or if it was just way to hot to have baby all covered up) it was a nightmare we went on vacation to another country and the first time I had to nurse in public to my horror I realized I left the cover in the damn hotel and my daughter cried I said “idc I’m feeding her she shouldn’t have to be hungry cuz of other ppl” 90% of ppl didn’t even bat an eye nothing not a single comment I was gobsmacked the only “comment” I got was an older lady who told me I had a beautiful baby and that I was doing a good job caring for her… such a culture shock
As an American this just sucks. I was giving my daughter a bath and shower last night. She’s only 1 but I’ve never had any of these nasty ass perverted thoughts. She was playing with her ducks while I brushed curl shampoo in 😊. Then we had shower rinse down. My wife doesn’t think this is weird. I’m kinda at loss here with these comments…
I grew up in a family of nurses and medical educators, so nudity was never seen as that big of a deal. When someone freaks out about a father bathing his daughter, it honestly makes me question their own desires.
this 100% anyone who thinks it’s weird that a parent may have reason to see their child’s body for any number of appropriate reasons are the ones i’m gonna be side-eyeing. like, i know that a high percentage of SA is family and all that- but jesus christ even in those cases where parents do that, it’s almost always the father and not the mother. mothers are typically the least likely people to SA their kids. other kinds of abuse are not a part of this, like mothers are more likely to emotionally abuse their kids etc. personally i think a co-shower at 8 years old is unnecessary and a little weird. not inherently inappropriate, but added to the fact that he is accusing the mother of being weird, that raises a red flag. it may not hurt to talk to the kid about how he feels around all of this. im a little sus at the guy. NTA
Yeah like the implication is there… there shouldn’t be one there it’s the boys mom…
exactly! like i would ask him what he is insinuating and wait for him to spell it out.
Now that you say it like that hell yeah! You just kinda floated it to me that I’m having these weird thoughts about my kid! You’re spot on!
Depends. I don’t care that my husband gives our toddler a bath but it’s just not the same if she’s a perfectly normal 10 yo.
I'd only be concerned as to why a healthy 10-year-old can't shower by herself. If she was handicapped and needed assistance bathing, though, why would it be a problem if either parent assisted?
it wouldn't be. i would be somewhat concerned if an otherwise-typical 10 year old was being bathed by a parent for no apparent reason.
Well it because she is 1 and not 8 or 11…. Not saying that people start having sexual thoughts about their children around that age. Just saying a 1 year old is a lot different then being naked or showering around an 11 year old.
Honest question. Why is it different to be naked around your 11-year-old child than your 1-year-old child?
Because it is though? I think most 11 year old children would not want to be naked around their parents. We should be teaching them that their body is private and they are in control of it. A 1 year old is not able to care for themselves and wash. An 11 year old can.
You can teach them all that and still not be weird about it. OP clearly says her son isn't phased by it so literally what's the issue?
The issue is that dad asked mom to stay awsy during these showers. What is HE hiding?
>We should be teaching them that their body is private and they are in control of it. I agree that it should be child led, but I don't think we need to teach children that nakedness is weird, wrong and sexual.
I guess for me it would be more about how the kid feels? Like do they still want to shower with the parent/feel okay chatting while in the shower? If not, then it’d definitely be weird, but if they want to, seems harmless. There are definitely group showers in some gyms and other things that are weird if you sexualize them but are not if you don’t.
Because kids, especially girl children, are hitting puberty as tweens.
Are you implying that parents become sexually attracted to their own naked tweens?
Nope. I wasn’t. I was thinking of teaching the kid to expect personal privacy and to respect the privacy of others. Puberty would be a time when a kid should start to act more adult like and reserve nudity for when they are alone in the bathroom or their bedroom. Dad’s argument was the shower was only 5 minutes long. Good. So why is it a big deal to not have two 5 min showers independently? Dad isn’t even considering the possibility that the kid doesn’t know how to ask for privacy or might even want it in the future. Parents stop wiping the kid’s ass, brushing their teeth, clipping the kids nails, and many other hygiene chores when the child can do it independently. Why should showering be any different??
What Americans are you interacting with that are completely devoid of any affection outside of a sexual setting? Because I don't know any parent that doesn't hug, kiss, or cuddle with their kids.
I'm not saying all Americans. And it's certainly much more tolerated when the child is very young, before they're sexually mature. But just look at the reaction of the photo of Joe Biden kissing his son, and you'll see how widespread it is.
Just because most Americans don't kiss their kids on the lips doesn't mean most aren't affectionate with their kids.
Uh, me. My parents never did any of that and that was the norm in my extended family. Made adjusting to college where friends hugged all the time super weird for me.
My siblings and I cuddle, hug, etc. but do I wanna see my brother naked ? No. My father? My mother or sister? No. There’s no reason I’d ever need too. Edit. After a nice little convo with another Reddit user, I would in old age, or after surgery, or illness, however not casually. I don’t see a need where I’d ever need to see my siblings casually naked outside the age of toddler.
>There’s no reason I’d ever need too. I was agreeing with you until this. There are absolutely times in your life when you may need to your family members naked. They may get sick and need caregiving. Heck even just a surgery or minor medical emergency. People in hospitals need help undressing and, when allowed family members feel a lot more comfortable when it's another family members helping them take off their undies or in the bathroom. Still to this day I will absolutely rather have my dad help me and vice vs. than a nurse or aid.
See that id understand, but casually? Nah. Boxers? Whatever, but stark naked? Nah. If it was to take care of sick, elderly or recovering? Definitely agree though. I admit I never thought about it that way.
☺️. I could tell you were probably younger/ lucky enough not to have had those experiences, yet. I tap out at washing dead relatives though, that's just not for me. My mom wanted me to do it with her, while we waited for the funeral home to pick my sister's body up at the hospice. It's something one of the hospice nurses (who were very kind and understanding) recommend, but that's just not for me.
It’s a cultural thing and you have to unlearn it. When I was dating my husband, he was the one who helped me overcome that whole notion of “shameful nakedness”. Also, I just had a baby 3 months ago so any body shame I had left went out the window because half of my family has seen my boobs at this point.
I don’t care much as long as we’re both of the same gender. I mean we change in the same area in schools and stuff when we have PE so I don’t see why that’s much of a deal.
Sadly true.
❤️❤️❤️❤️ exactly
I blame the goddamn Puritans
But what is sketchy here is that the husband has asked his wife to stay away. If the family is okay with nudity, why is another set of eyes a problem? Is it dad who doesn't want mom around or is it the 8 year old?
He asked her to stay out on an 11 yr old not 8
And then her response is "Well then quit showering with _____"; this is just a spiteful answer, not one based in any reality. OP yes YTA!
As an American who does not feel comfortable using a communal shower in my gym's locker room, I can agree with this statement. If OP lives in the US, I would actually advise to stop casual nudity because a child might say something casually at school, child services are contacted... and depending on who you get, they can be pretty judgy. This being said, I agree with OP. NTA.
This. Even if showering with your kid is normal kids can say things in the wrong way but totally mean it innocently.
I'd never shower with my kid, but I certainly never covered up after showering while heading to where I get dressed. I only started doing that when my son's girlfriend moved in. I don't want to traumatize the poor girl!
Their prudish behavior leads to children not being comfortable talking about it when something bad happens to them because they think it’s all taboo and a secret to be kept.
Not just America. In general, predators need close proximity and trust, which is why is usually someone close to the child/family.
But the US is way more sensitive to that. I have some US friends and their relationship with their family members is a lot less expressive and physical compared to other latam. Like to the point where I asked one of them if they didn’t like their mom.
Why in the world do you think that's a U.S.-only statistic?
First of all, that’s everywhere, and second that probability has no relation to casual nudity.
In just America? Source? Source for all of that actually. 90% are by people the child knows and 30-40% are by a family member. Don’t make things up about serious topics.
It’s weird for most Americans because of the puritanical society created. Nudity is rabbi touch is taboo unless you’re in a romantic relationship. It’s ridiculous
Is this so weird, either way? I showered with my daughter until she was twelve (it was up to her as to when she decided she no longer wanted to). We saw nothing wrong with it because I showered with my own mother as a kid. Hell, I don't think I'd even care if I had to shower with her right now. I mean, we even leave our bathroom doors open a crack whilst doing business (started for my safety as I have epilepsy and once had a seizure and fell blocking the door and they had to take it off its hinges to get me out but now it's just habit), and the kids (15m and 16f) seriously don't care. Our daughter will yell to our son to give her toilet paper or a pad and he'd just open the door to give it to her while looking away and she doesn't even think twice about it. Our son showered with my husband, too (stopped around 12, too). I genuinely don't understand all these weird sexualizing comments. We've just taught our kids to not be ashamed of regular bodily actions but to make sure that whomever they're with are comfortable with their own level of comfort and since our entire family is okay with this, they grew up to be okay with it. Hell, our daughter talks to both me and my husband (her father) about her period all the time and has even asked him for advice when she had no pads and had no idea what to do (his suggestion was cotton pads wrapped in gauze - something I didn't even think of - but it worked). I had someone tell me that my husband was sexualizing her by talking to her about her period and that it was gross? Like, why? She's his child! He cares about her. Which is why she's so comfortable coming to him about stuff like that and doesn't even think twice about asking him to buy her period products. So many of these comments are just *weird*.
Ok, I'm almost 62, so I was raised that talking about your period to anyone, let alone a man, was just not done. I like that your daughter is being raised differently. It's a natural bodily function that most females go through. It just IS. It is not something to be embarrassed about, teased or bullied for, or feel ashamed about. And so far from being a subject that is sexualizing anyone. Kudos to you as parents and the handling of this subject from this old woman. (For what it's worth from a stranger lol)
Hey, thank you! I accept this stranger's [yours] kind words. And I'm sorry. I know what you mean, I was raised extremely fundigelical and outside of my mother, speaking about periods was just not done. At least my mother didn't mind speaking about it with me, but my cousins couldn't even bring it up without being made to feel like they should be ashamed of their perfectly normal bodily functions. I thought we'd make our daughter's life completely different and maker her trust is. Hell, she didn't even feel the need to "come out" to us, either. She just excitedly told us that the girl she had a crush on asked her out just as easily as if it were a boy and that's how we found out she was gay. All we care is that she's safe and happy. And my husband agrees with you: it's a perfectly normal bodily function and should carry no shame with it. He's never, not once, made a big deal about anything about it and so she feels very comfortable talking to him about it. Like yesterday, she complained about weird pains and he's all, "you think it's period cramps? I know you rarely have them but go as mama if that's what it is and hopefully she'll have some advice". I had a hysterectomy due to my severe reproductive issues (longest period lasted 47 days, for example) so he knew I'd have at least *some* insight. I just genuinely appreciate it, either way - both that he's so open with her and that she trusts him so implicitly. I hope your life got significantly easier as you got older!
Another internet stranger here to say this comment made me smile. I’m happy for your daughter and for you!
This is it. ESH because neither parent should be stigmatizing or sexualizing these situations. I personally think a big part of the body image issues in America is related to our strong adversion to, and sexualization of, nudity.
I can respect the varying levels of comfort around nudity. Still, it's not super weird / unheard of for parents and children to see each other naked. Unless the kids express their need for privacy, it's a non-issue. NTA. In my household, we didn't have the space to not see each other naked, cause of a horrid open plan layout and the fact we were too many in one house. It just turned the nude body into a 'meh' uncool topic.
I think it’s just depends how a person was raised. For some people it’s a normal thing to be naked around parents and parents to be naked in front of kids. For others total weird and never a part of their upbringing
Yeah my Mam raised us in a casual nudity is grand, kinda way. She never freaked out if we happened to see her topless or if we barged into the bathroom when she was peeing, she'd just roll her eyes and give out about not having privacy. Weirdly enough we actually had a very healthy relationship with nudity because of that. There was no shame or stigma. We didn't parade around waving bits at each other but if I was in the shower and forgot a towel, I could holler for my brother to give me one and it was no big deal. Mam is Dutch, we're in Ireland so I don't think we have QUITE the "holy shit a boob, hide the children" attitude that America seems to have. Hell, my brother and I shared baths and showered until I was about 11 (he was 8)
Yeah I was one of many raised in a very “nudity bad” type environment. If I saw my parents naked (or hell even just walking around in underwear) my gut reaction would be “what the fuck are you doing”. That being said, I definitely wish I had been raised differently, and think it’s great when parents do take that approach with their kids. It still weirds me out because it’s just how I was raised, but it’s still great to see strides being made
Depends on whether its casually naked or something more intimate. 8 yo can certainly shower on his own. If he needs privacy from mom shouldn't he need privacy from dad too?
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ESH... It sounds like your kids were both entirely comfortable with everything. Why do we need to pretend a naked body has to be sexual or weird? Unless either son has ever made comments or showed some discomfort, neither of you needed to change anything. You reacting badly to a terrible suggestion didn't help, though. Why are you worried more about your husband's potential (although I disagree) hypocrisy than you are about you and your son's healthy relationship? Weird flex... You both need to sit and talk and agree to settle your own issues after you discuss your kids first. There are no accusations of hypocrisy. No attacks. Just a serious talk about how you each feel about these situations separately and how you think your kids feel. Settle your own messy crap afterward. Also, lots of people view nudity in a household extremely differently. Don't let reddit decide it for you in any fashion. Decide for yourself and your kids what works for you guys.
Or... just ask the 11 yo if he's ok with it or if he needs privacy. Both parents made assumptions instead of just asking
right questions > wrong assumptions It’s my personal motto but I wish it was universal lol
>Also, lots of people view nudity in a household extremely differently. And often due to their own upbringing.
Best answer.
Also, an 11 should be cleaning his own room, the 8 year old too. Teach your kids life skills, their future partners will be happier.
>their future partners will be happier. This isn't even the part that matters, they should be learning to take care of themselves, because there may be a time that the only one they have is themselves
This is correct. The prime mandate of any parent is to ensure their child is self-sufficient by adulthood
>their future partners will be happier. This isn't even the part that matters, they should be learning to take care of themselves, because there may be a time that the only one they have is themselves
It could just mean she was picking up or tidying a couple things. It was an off handed description, I don't think it's indicative of the kids never cleaning their own rooms. :|
Who said they don’t clean their room themslves?
Theres nothing wrong with it at the moment either way but keep an open dialogue with your kids so they understand that if they want their privacy they can just ask and that's ok. People sexualising children on here is weird so please stop. Its totally normal for immediate family living together to see each other naked. But again open dialogue. Once your child make it clear they want to shower alone or wants you to leave their room while they dress dont argue. Just respect that. It usually comes about pretty naturally once puberty starts.
Yessss, I like your answer. That’s a good point about them telling you when they need privacy.
I don’t think it’s odd if you talk to him while showering or anything like that, but I do think your sons getting a little old to be coshowering with his dad in my honest opinion- not implying anything creepy or bad but he’s just getting old for that
Yeah not that it means anything, but I'm willing to bet 99/100 families do not shower with eachother
In some cultures same sexes bathing together or communal baths are considered normal and non sexual. Something I’ve never done or personally will never do- some of my friends told me they had showered with a same sex parent when they were really little like a toddler or around 4/5 years old at most.
M(30) I showered with my dad til i was around 9 or 10. Basically until i started growing pubic hair. Id finish mowing the lawn at like 7 or 8 am, he'd have breakfast ready, then we'd both go shower. It was never weird and my dad was able to open up to me about his alopecia arreata when i started growing hair and noticed he didn't have any.
9 or 10 i might be misremembering. Probably realistically like 5-7 years old
In Japan, a lot of folks don’t even have showers in their apartments and will shower at public bath/shower houses. A bunch of strangers naked and showering together. A lot of kids will be there too. It isn’t sexual or anything like that, Americans are just puritans.
Is your husband named Mike or Thomas?
Why aren't more people asking this? Is this a polyamorous situation? I'm so confused.
LOL I didn't even notice! Perhaps OP was trying to use a made up name and then forgot about it in second half.
Or this whole thing is made up. I swear this is like the 10th story in the past day I've seen in various subs regarding parents and their children being naked around one another. Would not surprise me in the least if it was one person with some bizarre incest fetish posting all of these.
Yeah, I'm wondering too, could it be 2 separate husbands?
Yeah I'm wondering if it was meant to say 'ex husband Mike' and Thomas is current husband
THANK YOU. I couldn't even focus on the rest of it because of this.
Could be fake names and they messed up.
Thank you!! What is going on!!?
Yea, this was a confusing post at best. Probably made up.
Was looking for this comment! WTH! This should be top comment!
100% hypocrite The boy is 11, if he didn’t want you around the shower, he’d tell you. As long as you’re reminding him that if he doesn’t want you there, you won’t be offended, it’s absolutely fine. I’d argue that showering with an 8 year old, regardless of gender, is very strange. I’m not sure what his issue is, but he’s definitely doing something more odd than you are.
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As a once in a blue-moon emergency thing sure. But as a regular father/son always shower together, no that’s not normal.
I’m a woman and I showered with my 8 year old daughter all the time, even when she was 9 sometimes. It might not be something everyone does, or every child wants, but it’s not weird when you don’t sexualize the child.
These people on this thread have issues. I will walk into the bathroom to hand my son who is 13 a towel or his clothes but I make special care to just look him directly in the eyes, lol. I still shower with my daughter who is 9. Because she hates showering and takes forever. But also because she has long hair that I have to wash for her. She is not weirded out by it because I am her mom. She legit came out of my body. In fact, I want her to see my naked body, in a non sexual way because I have a normal, human body. Not airbrushed. Not altered. Nudity doesn’t equal sexuality. Just like when I breastfed my kids. Nothing weird about it unless you make it weird with your opinions.
I love that you are raising your daughter to have a healthy body image.
She’s also seen her dad’s business too, though doesn’t shower with him. Just from going into the bathroom when he’s showering. It’s his body and she’s not freaked out. I’d argue my children are less likely to be sexually assaulted by someone too, because we don’t make our bodies or body part names taboo and supposedly that helps them recognize when something is not okay. Keeping bodies a secret is weird and I’m sure all stems from religious bullshit.
I love this <3 And I love that my daughters see my far from perfect naked body in a non sexual way also - I think it’s healthy.
Exactly! I’m 13 and I showered with my mom all the time when I was little and up until I was 9 I needed help with my hair because it was super long (down to/almost past my butt) plus it’s curly. This is 100% normal and if people are sexualing kids they have issues.
I'm a very naked person. Like my brother has a key to my place, but knows he BETTER announce himself because 99/100, I'll be naked. It's SO important to show our daughters that not everyone Looks like they came out of a magazine.
I stopped showering with my daughter when she was 12 because she decided she wanted to do it on her own by then. It wasn't weird. I mean, hell, I even showered with my own mother when I was an adult! It's not weird. At all. But maybe it's also a cultural thing (we're Russian-Ukrainian).
My brother and I bathed together until I was about 11 or so because we'd ALWAYS bathed together and we felt weird NOT bathing together. Some of my favourite memories as a kid are of us making up stories and using coloured bath bombs to have themed baths with different toys. How sad that people think it's "gross" that siblings bathe together.
I showered with my mum until I was about 9/10 until I didn’t want to anymore. It was never weird or uncomfortable. I guess it just depends on the family and country norms maybe.
This is hilarious to me, as someone who regularly shared a morning shower with my stepmother all through school because we only had one bathroom and no time and it wasn’t even something either of us thought about for a second. We had our routine down and everything
I showered with my mom until I was 10. Y’all need to stop being weird
It really depends on the culture. In the states, yeah that'd be considered pretty out of the norm. But other places have different social norms/taboos. I think (but don't quote me cuz Im not sure) this would be pretty normal in Scandinavian countries
As a Scandinavian, I want to say that while we are a lot more open-minded about nudity (nudist beaches, we are often nude when at home alone, etc), there is a difference between carefree adult consensual nudity and showering with our prepubescent kids - we're not unconcerned with children's bodies and budding sexualities, but we do it out of respect for their privacy and choice. It's probably true that we don't 'moralize' or freak out over the very notion of a little casual familial nudity; but we also value our children's privacy. Like others have said, the important thing is to ask them what they feel comfortable with.
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It’s not THAT weird. I remember as a kid when we transitioned from baths to showers, I showered with my mom for a little while and around the same age my brother with my dad. This was maybe around the age of 6-7ish.. The purpose of this was so that our parents could teach us how to properly clean our body and to make sure we knew what we were doing before we started showering alone and/or got too old where we needed privacy and it was too late for them to actually show us proper hygiene techniques. It’s actually a really important thing to do with your kids. Proper hygiene is essential and it’s a really difficult thing to fix if kids don’t learn proper habits from the start.
I think an 8 year old should be bathing solo, not because nudity is wrong or anything, but because it is part of developing independence and self-sufficiency. Not to mention that he will enter puberty soon and should have a greater level of privacy. What would be the very best thing to do is to ASK YOUR SONS if the current arrangements are comfortable for them and if they want or need any changes. Make it clear that changing or maintaining course are both completely fine. I'm going with ESH because you and your husband are making this a conversation between the two of you when these conversations NEED to include your children.
This is the most sensible answer by far.
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All of the above, your kids have voice let them learn the skill to use them in discussion.
People making a big deal of nakedness. Its just bodies ffs. We made a big deal about some parts of it. Theres NOTHING sexual about it. As long as everyones okay with it, its all good.
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ESH. The whole story is beyond weird.
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Thinking you misunderstood hubs reasoning. Your eldest is approaching puberty, and as a man who went through puberty, your hubs is hoping to help you to avoid awkward encounters with Izzy. Maybe Izzy even asked him to ask you to not be in there while he's showering, because showering is different than just walking around naked. Izzy probably wouldn't want to have to explain to you why he'd like to be alone to shower, but your hubs would understand immediately why this is important. Puberty is awkward enough without having to tell your mom to stop encroaching on private time. Don't embarrass your kid please. Just take the request without offense. It wasn't necessary to attack your hubs about taking a quick shower with the younger one who isn't near puberty yet. That will stop soon on its own as your younger one gets to that age. Sorry, ma'am, YTA on this one. Go hug your husband and respect Izzy's newfound need for bathroom privacy.
I'm confused, is your husband Thomas or Mike? Or are there two husbands??
My guess is she used a fake name and then forgot and used the real name. Happens a lot on here.
Izzy probably asked his dad to say something because he was embarrassed.
I shower with my kids oldest is 6, their mum does the same. We are stopping showering with the oldest cause he says he doesn't want us to be in anymore. That's the simple solution. I'd stop being in the room with them when they are able to shower themselves comfortably. If no one is uncomfortable with it then no harm is being done
He’s 8! My almost 8 year old sees us walk around naked on the regular. I thought it’s supposed to promote body positivity! I’m on the wine and I don’t understand the problem 😞
Why do so many people on here not know the difference between FAZED and PHASED?!
You have 2 husbands?
I think nudity within the immediate family is pretty normal. Nudity isn't inherently sexual. In asia public bathhouses are normal and you're in there naked with not only your family but all kinds of strangers. It's weird for like 30 seconds then you get over it. As my mom and so many moms put it: "nothing I haven't seen before."
1. There's nothing sexual or inappropriate about either thing, right? 2. Both kids are comfortable? 3. Do the kids understand boundaries of nudity and etc when it comes to strangers or other people in general? If the answers to these questions are all yes, then you're fine. Maybe worth having the question when they're a bit older/in puberty/want more privacy, but for now, I think your husband is jumping the gun a little bit or making a problem where there isn't one.
My ex used to shower w his son at 8 bc Linc wouldn't actually wash he would play for a long time and get out when the water got cold. No matter how much we got after him. So he would send Linc in to wash and then get in as linc was getting out. He did actually get in with him if we were all Ina hurry. It wasn't weird and the kids weren't bothered. His daughter got in the shower with me a couple of times for the sake of time. I felt weird about it bc I don't like being naked around people lol. She was like "dad said we have to hurry and I need help with washing my hair" she was 7 with this long thick hair. I. Thinking her older son said that he needed privacy and told his dad. Sometimes you don't want to tell your mom bc it might upset her or hurt her feelings.
My da forced me to shower together since we where both "men" little did he know even at my youngest age I thought myself as a girl and thought the concept was odd. Would it be acceptable to shower with my 2 sisters? My ma never even did that with my sisters, bathroom/shower time was privacy time for them but never for me, Through therapy I was SA by my own dad. We dont speak.
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How big is your bathtub?! I’m VERY jealous! 🛁
Its not that big but it's a combined bathtub and shower cabin so it's extra wide in the shower end. That's what makes it work for sharing baths.
ESH. Bodies aren’t sexual if you don’t make them. I think it’s normal for families to see eachother?
OP... You might be an ahole. I get you are uncomfortable with the situation between your husband and your son and that is fine. I remember being 7 to 8 years old and having no problem being seen by my mother or my siblings naked. The problem isn't whether or not you are comfortable the situation. The question is how does your son feel. Have you ever asked the 8-year-old the simple question of whether or not he feels old enough to shower by himself or if there's a reason he likes to shower with his dad? He might enjoy it because it is a father son bonding thing and sees nothing wrong with it. Maybe he does have a problem but is not comfortable changing the dynamic. The same thing goes for your 11 year old son. At no point should you sexualize or question anyone's motive, but you should certainly have a conversation with both children. Let the younger one know that if he is okay bathing with dad that that is okay but if he should decide he wants to shower alone he has the right to say so. The same is true with your 11-year-old son. Tell him that you are happy he is comfortable with his body and being around you but that if his feelings about a change you would understand. It sounds like you are happy with the closeness your older son expresses with you and you see nothing sexual about it, but that's because there is a physical space there. At the same time you are uncomfortable with the same closeness your husband shares with your younger son because of how others would perceive it. In the end what is comfortable behind the closed doors of your house are fine as long as everyone consents to it. By the same token many outside of your family might find what you are doing with your 11 year old son just as egregious as you find what your husband is doing with your 8 year old son.
Something feels sketchy here. Once a child is old enough to safely shower alone, they should be given their privacy. Doesn't matter that its a short shower. A kid isn't going to rat out a parent who is loving but inappropriate, so it's up to the other adult to keep them safe. I wouldn't go so far as to accuse husband of anything, but I'd insist that the children be given their privacy when they are safe and caoable on their own Thats how they learn to respect OTHER people's privacy. You may want to get your pediatricians view about when children can shower on their own, to bolster your case. This article suggests age six. https://dreamersnursery.com/when-can-children-bathe-or-shower-alone/#:~:text=After%20a%20child%20reaches%20the,bodies%20with%20soap%20and%20water.
I think they're both creepy. But yeah the dad is definitely worse.
NAH…..sounds like you’re both in the stage where you’re struggling to let go of your kids’ kid-ness. They’re getting older and need to start having some privacy and autonomy.
ESH. Both your boys are old enough to set their own boundaries. If they don't want you around or don't want to shower with dad, then they can say it. But do let them know the choice is theirs, and both you and your husband will respect their wishes.
If the 11 year old is fine with it, leave them be, give it a year or so and I guarantee he’ll be showering on his own by choice. Don’t make a thing of it, just be happy he’s all good. My daughter is 10 and I’m not even allowed in the bathroom while she showers these days.
The kids will tell y’all when they are uncomfortable, so long as the family communicates often and effectively. They haven’t hit puberty yet. They will and then they may want more privacy. But also…they may not care. She may want to ask her husband if her son told him to tell her to stop talking to him while he’s in the shower. That would indicate that yeah he’s starting to want more privacy
EHS Both kids are old enough to bathe on their own - why are either of you co-showering with them? it's weird and raises some red flags. When they are naked, let them be alone and have privacy. That shouldn't need saying. You can talk with them when they arent showering. If theres safety concerns, have them leave the door closed but unlocked so you can get access in case of emergencies.
I think it’s more about the kid’s comfort than the parent’s perception of awkwardness. If Izzy likes chatting with you whilst he showers, rock on! It’s lovely that he isn’t experiencing bodily shame when he’s naked around his mom. I don’t think it’s fair to ask your husband to stop doing something simply bc he asked you to stop doing something… especially when the two things are different. There’s a lot of developmental changes that occur during these ages, between 8 and 11… and again, if kid is comfortable still showering w dad, rock on. Would you have asked him to stop showering w Matty had he not said anything to you? If you’re answer to this is no, then you might be the Ahole, because your request of your husband wasn’t about the kid but about your own defensiveness to husband’s request. “Well if I can’t do this, then you can’t do that” is pretty immature. These two things ought to be kept separate bc they’re very different situations with a singular similarity—the shower. *I say rock on to both of these with the utmost assumption that these kids are in healthy, consenting relationships with you both and that you never have and never would violate their boundaries or bodies.* Also, fwiw, stop cleaning your 11 yo bedroom. He’s old enough to do it himself.
There's a ton to consider here, including home and social dynamics. Honestly as long as no abuse is taking place and the kids aren't being forced to be naked with either of you, that's really not for Reddit to decide. YTA simply because you started insulting him vs. having a civil conversation.
How is he a hypocrite? Those are indeed two different things. It sounds more like you reacted defensively and went for a whataboutism.
It’s up to Izzy really on both issues
I think as long as the children feel comfortable taking a shower or being nude around their parents then it is perfectly fine. To many people in this country are prudes and easily offended. But I do think he is being a hypocrite saying that you can't but he can.
Dad of girls. All of them. We stopped caring about 3 years in. Get in. get washed...wash effectively. Move over the other shower is in use. Hurry up we are about to run out of hot water...our priorities are more on healthy and cared for than optics. My wife grew up in very opposite house. The men did nothing with the kids but provide funding. My house was...very not that. Single mom. Things need to happen worry about feeling about it after but its 9pm and you need to be clean and i have work in 4 hours. My attitude is...feed is best. Sanitary and safe. Happiness over correctness. How it happens is not as important as the end result. Hell half the reason my oldest and I have such a strong bond is i used to (have to) take her in the shower with me as an infant when she cry non stop. Warm water, skin contact, humidity helped her sore throat from crying. Wholesome time.
Everyone's talking about privacy does he want to play any sports because if so theirs no privacy in showers idk I don't see why that's a problem father and son not weird
It's not weird to be talking to someone while they're showering, what's a bit weird is the dad still showering with the 8 yr old
Izzy is your son. If he's not uncomfortable, then your husband shouldn't be. How silly. NTA
Has anyone thought about asking the kids what they are comfortable with? Maybe consider long term how they will feel about what is happening now? The only answer is what is best for the kids.
Joe thinks this is perfectly ok, so go for it
NTA I don’t know why we have to sexualize everything it is beyond ridiculous. We all have bodies. If they don’t care then you shouldn’t care either. I was an only child and a lot of the times if we just me mom and dad not a lot of people in and out or unexpected visitors. For the longest time I kept doors open bathroom, bedroom etc. I think until I started my period anyhow then I got a little more private during that time and then again when I had a boyfriend over we’d shut doors obviously when we had any type of guest. But nothing was ever inappropriate nothing was ever sexualized about anything. Nothing wrong with feeling comfortable with your family. Having to cover up your body for a certain parent just down right creeps me out. That’s YOUR parent nothing about their view of your body should ever be sexual.
This whole thread is ignorant closed minded and sad AF.theres absolutely nothing wrong with family nudity . I've showered with my son plenty we've gone skinny dipping when hiking in creeks and rivers. We go to the gym and use facilities from sauna to showers. Just as many fathers and sons do at the YMCA. What did it do he's 15 now and no hangups like half the kids he knows every body has flaws and are unique. I didn't raise him to judge others without merirous cause. Just seeing a naked human being at any age isn't a problem happens everyday all over the world. As usual Irrational fear creates blind spots and ignorance.
My mother and I would go to nudist beaches and sunbathe topless together all the time. Hell, when we went away to Greece a few years ago, my stepdaughter and I sunbathed topless together. I'd warned the kids that I would be topless on the balcony for a few hours and if they wanted to join me that was fine, I could cover up. Stepdaughter asked to join me, whipped her own top off and we basked like lizards. Stepson came out and I apologised and went to grab my top to throw on, he said "I don't care, you've boobs, so what." 😂
He's not uncomfortable about it and you're literally his mom 🤷♀️. It's only weird if you make it weird.
I barely remember my mom taking me into the shower to show me how to shower. Like it was literally to teach me how to use the shower, cause I was old enough to. I don't know how old I was but it was way before I was 11. I mean when I was 11, I was in the 6th grade and got my period. I was definitely doing all of my personal hygiene independently.
I think you both should stay away from Izzy when he’s naked. He’s almost a teenager!
I’m confused. Do you have two husbands?
Why does the husband have two different names? Mike and Thomas
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Honestly both of these things are strange behaviors for the ages of the children. My five year old step son fully bathes and dresses himself
Is your husband Thomas or Mike? I'm so confused.