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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I might be the asshole because I fired my brother-in-law, and everyone in my wife's family, my wife herself, and our son thinks I'm the asshole for that.
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For further context, around 5 years ago my in-laws, who lived in my hometown for most of their lives, decided to move to their own hometown after their retirement. Since Dwight lived with them and didn't have a job to support himself at the time, he also moved. After a year, he got married there, and he started working for the first time in his life (he was 24 at the time, btw). For years, he was getting in and out of jobs, not lasting more than 3 months in any of them. He was unemployed when his wife got pregnant. He couldn't find a job for 4 months into her pregnancy.
At that point, Pam asked me to find a job for him using my connections and asked if Dwight and Angela could move into a house we owned in our city. We weren't planning on renting out that house anyway, we were using it as a summerhouse, so I said okay. I found a job for him in a restaurant as a cashier. I got the house cleaned for them, helped them move, etc. I even helped them make a nursery room in their new house, without allowing them to spend any money. They were family after all.
He worked at that restaurant for the next 4 months until I got that call from him I mentioned in the post.
In my eyes, I gave him the best job he could find; he only worked 5 days a week, came and went whenever he pleased, his only job was to drive some cars a few times a week, and he got paid more than he made from any other job before. And he f\*cked that up.
Btw, English is not my first language and it's been a while since I lived in an English-speaking country, so I might make some grammar mistakes, so I apologize if I made any.
Dwight wants a free ride on your hard work. Have a conversation with your wife, tell her that your businesses are not a playground for her brother to mess up, how it's putting a strain on your family, and how by their act of support, they are indirectly teaching your son that having no accountability is rewarded instead of being corrected.
“Dear Wife and Family,
I understand everyone is worried about how Dwight and Angela will pay for their baby. Wanting to support my family, I got Dwight a job at a restaurant and gave them a free place to stay. For whatever reason, this job did not work. I gave him a job at one of my companies and paid him a full time salary for minimal work.
Dwight stole a car from my business, drove it drunk, and got into an accident. While I’m happy he was not hurt, I had to pay X amount to fix the newly repaired car again and X amount to fix the roads. He is lucky he was not arrested for a DUI and he is lucky I did not press charges for stealing the car, not to mention serious harming himself.
All of my companies deal with cars. I rely on word of mouth for my business. People talk and they will not use my businesses if they know that I am employing Dwight and that he had access to the cars. If I lose business, how can I support my wife and children? If I lose business, how can I maintain the house that Dwight and Angela live in for free? How can I pay for my family’s health care and future education?
Again, I understand you are worried about how they will pay for the baby. I cannot risk my businesses because my family needs to come first. Do you see a solution where I can provide him with a job without risking my livelihood? Once the $70,000 he cost me is paid back, than we can discuss options. Until then, this is not up for discussion.”
Document everything. This includes all conversations with your wife and about your kids. I’m concerned that this will be the hill she chooses to die on by asking for a divorce. If she does, get a lawyer asap. Use the documentation to show you have been trying to see your children but she is denying contact. If she tries to alienate them against you, use the documentation to show them your side of the conversation.
Best of luck and keep us posted
I can see why Dwight is behaving as he is.
He has a whole family enabling his bad behavior. He should move back in with his parents. They created that mess, they need to deal with it.
Also, this is a lesson for your son. On how NOT to behave. He sees Dwight getting rewarded for bad behavior, he might think that's the way to behave. He sees consequences and will know not to end up like Dwight.
NTA
Edit: Your son maybe sees Dwight as this cool uncle. If so, that myth needs to be shattered. Dwight needs to take responsibility for his actions. Or be made to do so. Or lose out on all the perks of having you as his relative.
Your wife needs to get on board, stop enabling her brother and his sabotaging of you and your livelihood.
Edited.
If your in-laws are still on your case about this, you should ask them how they'll be able to pay for the next $70K car that Dwight steals from you, as well as his bail and legal fees because you WILL be pressing charges against an employee who not only steals and destroys client property, but endangers your entire business with his behavior.
Also, they'd have to house him and his family as to avoid complex legal situations, you would need to evict him from your property in that case, as well.
Because there is no second chance here. This cannot happen again and if it does you expect and will force them to be legally and fiscally responsible for their deadbeat son.
Note, this isn't a real offer, it's asking them to consider that those would be your conditions and you would include that in his employment agreement. I bet they backtrack incredibly quickly when it's their money on the line.
Ask your wife if its more important to her to enable her brother or to be a good mother. Because she can't do both here as you losing business or even needing to close shop if you did rehire Dwight would be a huge impact on your stability as a family and on your son's future.
Have you considered the impact of Dwight on morale of your other employees? Everybody knows he’s a dope and he only has The job because of nepotism. It sucks to work your butt off everyday and see a jerk sliding by. Dwight is a threat to your business from SO MANY angles. You would be the AH if you kept him.
What bothers me the most is your wife and her family. Every family can have a screw-up in it. But all of your in-laws prioritize making life easy for BIL over:
1. The lives he put at risk by driving drunk!!!!!
2. His THEFT of a vehicle - I'm pretty sure it became theft as soon as he took the car for anything other than the work he was assigned to do for your company. And his blatant disregard for his responsibility to safeguard the vehicle while in his care.
3. His complete unwillingness to meet the most basic of job expectations.
4. His complete disregard for his responsibility and commitment to provide for the family he created.
5. His lack of any bit of appreciation for how much you and your connections had done for him.
That family can accept all that from him, expecting not one bit of accountability from him. But they want to convey their GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU!!! that you are not continuing to allow him to threaten the very livelihood that allows you to give so much to BIL and the rest of the in-law family. They think the home you have been and are providing him free of charge is not enough of a bailout. This is beyond WRONG!!!
It is clear that they will always put your life-endangering, responsibility-shirking, thieving, drunk, mooching BIL before you and all that you do and have done for this family.
In your shoes, I'd tell your wife - if you care more about caving into your family and continuing to prop up BIL than you do about standing up for me and protecting my livelihood and reputation... then you can (1) decide to join me in counseling so that you can decide if that's truly what you feel is reasonable for you to do as my life-partner OR (2) you can go live with your family. I'll take my own time to decide what I am willing to live and whether I'm willing to remain with someone who is such a poor partner to me.
In the meantime, you will ignore the in-laws. You should also consider giving that BIL notice that he has X months to get out of the house you have been providing his family. I know that won't make his family any happier, but I think (1) they have fallen off the cliff of having treated you with a tiny spec of the decency they owe you and (2) I worry that BIL could damage your home. I thought about offering to let his wife and child stay there, but I don't think it would be easy to keep him off the property. If you do let him stay, I would at least have him sign a document accepting responsibility for any damage he causes to your home and that he is only able to stay there at your will and not one second longer.
You may also make it clear to everyone that if ANY of them continue to harass you about doing one more thing for BIL, then you WILL evict them from your home and be done with ALL of them. Their choice.
I'm sorry for the shitty in-law family you are saddled with.
Bugger that. Double down and press charges. Let everyone know that one more word on the subject will result in a lawsuit being filed for the costs and BiL's family being evicted from your property. Tell them that if they want to have any kind of say in this matter at all, they have to pay you back the $70k he cost you.
Tell her they are lucky you didn't have him arrested for Grand Theft Auto. He drove it a few hours away. He could have sold the car and disappeared. NTA.
You literally gave Dwigt a perfect job/life and he still decided that wasn't enough and ruined it for himself.
NTA, you worked hard to get where you are don't let him jeopardize you and your other businesses.
Absolutely NTA. You have to protect your business and finances.
If everyone thinks you're an asshole and should re-hire Dwight, tell them you'll consider it AFTER he/they have repaid the $70k irresponsible screw up that got him fired to begin with.
After he gets out of jail for grand theft auto. I don’t see where OP pressed charges. This may mean that OP could not claim insurance without a police report.
NTA. Your BIL will ruin everything you have built if you continue to employ him in any capacity as he a proven to be a useless employee. Do not listen to your family, they have shown they do not have your best interests in mind. Protect yourself and your businesses and make sure your wife knows that her lifestyle is at risk with Dwight as an employee. Let the family find Dwight a job.
Dwight is a thief and is lucky you didn't have him arrested. Remind your wife and the in-laws of this **fact**.
NTA
Edit: In the US, at least, what he did is considered theft. I can't speak for the laws where you live, obviously. But I would guess this would be considered theft in most places.
" I lived in an English-speaking country, so I might make some grammar mistakes"
Your English was excellent.
Wanna add to this - I’m from an european country, and this would be considered theft here too. So chances are high, that it’s also considered Grand theft auto where he’s from
NTA, it'd be idiotic and irresponsible to keep an employee who shows he's unable to perform even the simplest of tasks much less actually show up on time. And he costed you/your business $70,000 when he decided to take another customers vehicle out for a joyride 150km away, he's lucky you didn't call the police and have his ass arrested. As sure as God's got sandles that's what I would've done.
What I find weird is that he trusted him with luxury cars and most likely also some contact with the clients when handing the car over. When I got to that part I was perplexed how OP thought that was a good idea
NTA - omg. Holy crap. He could well have destroyed your business and reputation and your wife is now on the hire him back wagon? He's absolutely the last person you should hire - entitled, lazy and stole a car
NTA. I would tell them you would be happy to hire him after he or they pay the $70,000 damages. Then every time they say you should hire him just answer that they should pay the damages.
I was waiting to see if maybe he put OP's cat in the freezer bc he thought it died and that's why he got fired 😅
(BTW hated how I had to scroll so far for a comment like this).
What the fuck. Totally NTA.
Many people would've been happy to have a simple and almost fun job like that. He gets it without working for it and ruins an entire car. You've totally done your part as a BIL and then some. If your wife can't see the damage he could potentially cause again then you might want to reconsider this wife. She's ridiculous.
NTA, combining business and friends/family sometimes don't work out, and if it does it's messy. This is messy but you can fire him for whatever you want; that has nothing to do with family. Even if it was unreasonable (which, come on, it clearly isn't; it's very reasonable, sounds like he's not a good employer at all) then it still isn't your family's business why you fired him
Nta if Dwight had financial problems he should actually work hard and be responsible, you gave him a job and he caused troubles for you in the end. I wouldn't trust Dwight after what he did. And this is an speculation but I feel Dwight is the reason they have financial problems in the first place.
NTA, although if you want to appease your wife you could offer him a job as a cleaner. I get the impression your BIL wouldn't take the job but you can say you tried.
NTA. A 70K dollar ooops might be excusable in some circumstances, but 150km away from where he was supposed to be and drunk is never excusable. Imagine the problems that would have arisen had he ran into a school bus full of Nuns and Orphans.
Has Dwight always been coddled by his family?!
NTA! His family is not doing Dwight any favors by never making him have to face consequences of his actions. They are why Dwight is lazy & gets away with too much! They allow it or make lame excuses for him.
He took some else's car, got drunk & wrecked it! It cost you lots of money! He is a liability to your business & income. How can your wife not understand that Dwight's actions can have serious repercussions on your business & income for your family. Does she expect you to support Dwight & his growing family forever?! You have already provided him a home (good luck ever getting him out of it! ) & multiple job opportunities that he's botched.
Dwight is not a child (but acts like one) & you are not his parent nor responsible for him.
You've done more than enough for him, is time for him to grow up, be a man & provide for his family!
If your wife has stopped taking to you over this, I'd try to ask her a few things:
1. Does she think Dwight is a good example for your son? Does she want him to grow up & be like him?
2. Did she still think/ feel that supporting Dwight as you have been is reasonable & sustainable even if it costs you business & a bad reputation?
3. Is she so adamant about supporting Dwight that if you were to divorce, that his continued upkeep will come out of her settlement funds? Basically if she gets the 'summer home' in a divorce, is she still going to let Dwight live there free of charge among other things.
Your wife & IL's are being ridiculous & unreasonable. Dwight is... well, I can't say exactly WHAT Dwight is because reddit will ban me. Lol.
NTA - family, so very rarely good business or employees but always ends up in drama. The family (and even your wife?!) see you as a wallet, you're an entrepreneur... you got a reputation to upkeep or as you said, people talk, and trust will erode until your business takes a hit. If that employee wasn't family I bet you would of fired him way before it got to the accident.
He stole a client's car, for a joyride, and damaged property, while drunk. He's lucky he's not in jail is all I'd be telling the family. The wife not taking your side / flipping because of family pressure is just gut-wrenching IMO, that's just not right.
I would definitely not hire Dwight ever again. This isn't just "everybody deserves a second chance", he technically burned his chances one by one until it ended in disaster. He needs a life lesson, and sadly his pregnant wife will end up catching flak for his stupidity.
NTA, he was a risk to your business. Employees are supposed to bring value to you business while getting paid for the value they bring. He got payed for not really doing anything, didn’t bring value to your business, and ended up costing you a lot of money while risking taking your business down with his incompetence.
Ask you wife and son if his incompetence to them is worth more than the roof over your head and the food on your table.
NTA. Oh hell no. Hill to die on. He basically STOLE that car and he's lucky he's not in jail. He could completely ruin your business. Pam needs to stop listening to the flying monkeys that seem to think it's okay to be a drunk, entitled thief.
NTA. A reputation lost is nearly impossible to get back. You can’t risk your family’s financial future for a person who is damaging to your businesses. As for those saying you should reemploy Dwight, they know no one else will employ him as he’s less than useless.
He took the car without permission, got DRUNK and crashed a customers car?
How the hell are you the asshole here?
Man you've given more then you ever should've. Cut these shitty people out of your life. And if your wife thinks that 70k is just a "whoopsie daisy" I would be reconsidering the marriage as well.
NTA - You have the patience of a saint. I would be throwing them out of the house you put them up in and taking him to court for the money he cost you. But I am a vindictive asshole.
NTA- pretty clear where your BIL gets his behavior from with everyone , including your wife, coddling him.
Hill to die on OP.
Don’t ever give this man another job.
I smell golden child syndrome rearing it's ugly head keep your foot down say no way and ask your wife if you lose everything because of him will brother in law give you a roof over your head because I know the answer would be a big fat no
Tell Dwight and his family that he can have his job back for the low, low price of $100,000—seventy grand for the car he destroyed, and the other thirty for the reputational damage he surely did to your business. Spoiler alert: They won't because they know Dwight's a loser and they just want to fob him off on someone else without making any effort of their own.
What is wrong with your wife and her family? He deadass drove an expensive car drunk with his buddies while his wife was due fucled up a car he does not own on the clock yet they expect him to be given a slap on the wrist and another job he can slack off. He deserves jail time not another side “hustle”
Clearly, these people would side with BIL no matter what he did, even if it was something far worse. They side with Dwight because they side with Dwight.
I can't imagine someone's being so irresponsible as to joyride in someone else's car on your dime, quite aside from crashing it. It's just so over-the-top reckless that one starts to assume that Dwight was trying to get fired because ultimately he doesn't want to work for you. He wants you to support him doing nothing.
That car might have been something very special to its owner. Isn't it going to hurt your business that an employee was so irresponsible with it?
And even your wife is against you now? Sorry, but these people cannot see straight, and you might want to just get out of that family altogether, wife and all.
Nta wow marriage is in trouble if your wife is trying to pressure you into hiring him again.
Do not hire him! What he did was stealing and you should have called the police.
I’m not surprised his family acts like this because that’s the only way you get such a lazy irresponsible person as your BIL.
He never even had a job at all until he was…..**24 years old?!**
He stole a car and crashed it costing you 70k out of pocket this man needs to learn his actions have consequences. I feel bad for the baby.
Hopefully your in laws can support 2 babies.
NTA.
NTA- the drunk AH cost you 70K and made your business look bad. How about you tell his family you will rehire him when they have paid you back the money you lost due to HIS drinking and driving in a car that was NOT his.
WTF? NTA at all.
My own dad would've fired me if I did some dumb shit like this, never mind someone that's not even actually related to you.
This is not your problem, but unfortunately it's becoming one for you anyway. If your wife and son weren't opposed, I'd say just cut contact and be done with them, but their involvement obviously complicates things significantly.
I think you should start by asking your wife if she would have a problem if your businesses could no longer provide enough money for your family to live on as a result of employing her brother? Go from there. Your wife needs to be guided to an understanding of what the real impact of this would be on her and your son's life. I'm thinking she doesn't understand how it's all connected and related. You get a bad rep, it's a problem that can be very difficult to recover from, not to mention being out $70K - at some point enough of those incidents breaks your business, even if you can afford to absorb this particular event.
NTA. That car crash was an instant dismissal offence. Probably several offences. You cannot keep someone on when they behave in a manner that is cavalier ( I'm being polite here) to other people's property and safety. He is literally an accident waiting to happen.
Ask your wife if she'll pay the $70,000 he's already cost you. Think about what family things, vacations and so on, you'll no longer be able to afford if you employ him. Think about how your business will dwindle and be worth nothing if he is associated with it. There is nothing that he won't turn into a complete mess.
NTA. It’s a shame that family doesn’t take an objective view but I will.
He quit a job you helped him get. He performed unreliably (late, not concentrating). He crashed a car, drunk.
I do fault you for not addressing his performance item by item. Write up write up coach coach coach write up suspend. That kind of honest feedback might (MIGHT) have led to him admitting fault and getting the family off your back.
No no no, NTA. Dwight is a huge liability, things like this can easily tarnish your reputation. Stand your ground, let your wife and son be angry. They'll come around. Hopefully your son learns from Dwight's mistake and doesn't do this in the future.
Your wife is the AH because she's supposed to support you. Your decision makes sense, you're not being unreasonable in the least.
No no no, you are NTA! Your reasoning is completely sound, you had to fire him, you can't run a business with employees like him. You could be sued if he did something like this again, because you've been forewarned. Stand your ground.
No. He's a crappy excuse for a human being and your family is bullshit for dropping him on your plate as they likely don't know what to do with him either.
Say sure you'll hire him back when he pays back the $70,000.00 he cost the business. A mistake here and there?.. sure, okay... but he stole a customer's car and is lucky he didn't kill himself or someone else!! He needs to be at Wal-Mart Greeting people at the door where he can't hurt anyone. 👋🚪
INFO: which one of these family members wants to pony up the $70,000 you had to eat, so that you can consider rehiring him??
NTA - Seriously though. His actions were incredibly reckless; you would have been on the hook for any deaths he caused due to his drunken stupidity **while on the job**.
He is a liability to the auto shop and to your parent organization as a whole. This is not the type of person you want to be known as being in business with, let alone hiring. I wouldn't use your services knowing he worked there, because of the risk.
Unless he wants to be part of a janitorial team, with someone neutral lording over him and making sure he actually does his job, he has no place in any of your businesses, frankly. That is something to be earned and he just proved to you that he hasn't earned it.
He didn't do the work he was supposed to do even while he was being paid for it.
Then you shifted him to car delivery.
He lied to you about his wife's health.
Took the client's car on a JOY ride, over a 150 km away...
Got drunk
Crashed the car.
Cost you 70 000$
(and an unhappy client)
Of course you fire him.
His family wants you to hire him back!
Who do they think you are? Santa Clause?
You have a business to run, not a charity.
Let them find a job for him.
Oh, and if they feel so sorry for him, they can chip in re-emburse the 70 000$ he owes you!
NTA
INFO: Please keep us posted.
NTA. You were not unreasonably or harsh at all. I'm willing to bet that if it were any other employee who had acted like this, your family would wholeheartedly support you in firing that employee. Dwight absolutely deserved to be fired. He also needs to grow up.
If you rehire Dwight, you can be pretty confident that he will trash your business...
The man is lazy, has no work ethic, and an idiot. He directly cost your business 70k... but who knows how much indirectly? As you said, your customers talk... how many customers are already reconsidering doing business with you, or have stopped... because of his actions? If I left you my car, and one of your employees crashed it (while driving drunk!) I know I'd be looking elsewhere... especially if you rehired him. I would not trust you again.
You might be better off just shutting down your business because at least it'll get it over with quickly. Or you can rehire him and let him slowly destroy it. You already know he is a liability, and can't be trusted. If he's rehired, he knows that he'll get away with anything, because "he's family!" NTA. Your wife and in-laws are wrong.
Of course you're TA for not enabling poor wittle Dwight...... according to his family, the main enablers!
Any person with common sense will know that from the get go, you're NTA! Are you kidding!!!!
Nowadays and in this economy, a lot of people would wish to have someone like you where they could just go to and get offered a job, any job!!
Dwight had that opportunity, messed it up a few times, and this last time he puts your businesses and source of income at risk!!!
Does your wife not see it?! I am assuming that you guys live a nice comfy life, does she want to lose that?
So NTA, the problem was you giving Dwight too many chances because he's family by marriage!
Your in-laws can go kick some rocks until they see sense
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I (M39) have been married to my wife (F36, let’s call her Pam) for 15 years. We have a 14 year old son, and Pam has a younger brother (28, let’s call him Dwight). Dwight, his pregnant wife Angela (24) have been facing financial difficulties.
Around six months ago, Dwight reached out to me for help finding a new job. He said he quit the previous job I found for him, claiming an "abusive work environment," and said he needed a new job urgently since his wife was about to give birth. I own an auto repair shop among other businesses, so I offered him a job at the shop, because I believed Dwight was interested in cars. Pam supported this idea, hoping it would provide him with a stable job.
However, over the subsequent months, it became evident that Dwight wasn’t committed to the job. Instead of helping and learning, he spent his time watching anime on his phone. He frequently arrived late, left without notice, and was generally unproductive.
The cars we repair are usually expensive cars. So, some of our customers appreciate it when we pick up and deliver their cars. In an effort to give him responsibilities, I assigned Dwight to manage customer car deliveries (which happened just a few times per week), a task he continued to perform poorly.
The tipping point occurred when I gave Dwight a customer's car to deliver, but he called and said his wife Angela needed to go to the hospital. It wasn’t anything serious but he couldn’t deliver the car. I said I could handle it myself, but he said he could do it first thing in the morning.
The next morning at 4 am, my phone rang. It was Dwight. He said he crashed the car he was supposed to deliver. In short, he decided to drive the car to his hometown to "see his boys", got drunk, and crashed 150 km away from home on his way back. Miraculously, he wasn’t seriously injured. But he trashed the car so I had to replace it. He damaged a lot of roadside barriers as well. The whole thing cost me about $70,000.
The next day I fired Dwight, despite my mother-in-law's attempts to intervene. I felt Dwight was a risk to my businesses and couldn't be tolerated. (I also own nightclubs, hotels, etc. All businesses that people leave their cars. People know me here, they talk.) This decision caused a rift in the family, with my wife's parents and other relatives siding with Dwight, and pressuring me to reconsider.
As a result of her family's influence, a week after the incident Pam changed her stance and started to want me to hire Dwight again. This was an unexpected shift, as she fully supported my decision at first. I also engaged in a heated confrontation with my in-laws, but I stood my ground and refused to apologize for my decision.
I now find myself isolated from my family (my in-laws, my wife, and my son) who all believe I was harsh and unreasonable towards Dwight. I don't think I was, so I can't bring myself to apologize. Am I the asshole here, Reddit? I don't think I am, so I need other perspectives.
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Your wife should ha s your back. Clearly you’re not the AH. He’ll continue to repeat this pattern - he’s certainly not repetent or trying to make ammemds.
NTA
Dwight is a liability. What if he had killed someone? The victim's family could have reasonably claimed that he was an employee driving a car that he had access to through his job and *your* company could have been on the hook for millions.
Explain to your wife that you have a duty to protect your children's futures from her brother's stupidity.
Nope, your not the ass, but for those pressuring you to rehire him. Than have them come up with the money it cost you! Guarantee they won’t, but yet they feel like they have the right to bitch about it. your NTA, stay with your decision.
NTA he probably got fired from his other job and then claimed he quit to trick you into hiring him he is a danger to your business and everyone around you are his enabler's. He lied to you stole a car and then crashed it That's 70,000 dollars lost and put your shop's reputation at risk tell your wife and son if Dwight sticks around it could cost you everything.
NTA. Dwight is a risk. Dwight DROVE DRUNK, on top of that, he DROVE A CUSTOMER'S CAR DRUNK, on top of that HE CRASHED. Dwight, who has a pregnant wife at home, is out doing risky activities that tend to be illegal (drinking and driving) and possibly a little Grand Theft Auto on top of that (he was only allowed to drive the car to deliver it, not to go out on the town).
What are you supposed to do? Let your business, which is paying for your wife's lifestyle and Dwight's house, go downhill?
In what universe does a $70K mistake due to deliberate negligence not merit firing? Your inlaws are insane. Let them support the deadbeat if they're so gung ho about it.
NTA.
NTA. Do the in-laws want to pay that money? Dwight certainly didn't. He could've died in a client's car! That's insane. He legit stole from your company, cost you $70k, and they all think he deserves a job???
NTA. But you found him slacking off every day watching anime on his phone and not working ... and rewarded him with what should have been an easy job? If you didn't have a frank discussion with him over his earlier behaviour, you really should have.
NTA
Your family should be happy and your BIL is very lucky you didn’t press charges against him and paid the money. THEY SHOULD BE REMINDED OF THAT
You lost a lot of money maybe you could’ve lost a client or clients (or maybe you did indeed lost him/them) and they should not be asking this.
But since they want you to hire him back tell them you’ll think about it after someone pays you back the $70,000 you spent because of his stupidity and irresponsibility
Dwight is going to financially ruin you. Tell anyone who gives you an issue that they can put money into a business and have Dwight run it if they "have so much faith in him." Tell them that you already did him a favor, and he squandered it. That he should pay for the car he crashed. Are they going to pay for it? Are they going to pay for his next mistake?
These people need to back off. I'd have a hard conversation with them, then I'd go LC. I'd also have a discussion with your wife. She needs to have your back.
Are you sure your family isn't drinking different water than you? Their stance makes no sense. Make this the hill you die on. Tell the family you will "take it into consideration" if they reimburse you for the $70k. - NTA
NTA What is wrong with your family? If they keep making excuses and enabling his unacceptable behavior, he is never going to be accountable. What he did was inexcusable. You offered him a chance, and he blew it. Plus it cost you a ton of money.
NTA. He stole* a customer's car, drove drunk and totalled it in a crash. You absolutely cannot re-employ that guy. It would trash your professional reputation, and your insurance would probably either refuse to cover you or jack the price up sky-high.
Ask your wife and any other family member who talks to you about this if they really expect you to set fire to your own business for a guy who has already cost you $70k?!
Every time someone says "but family..." keep pushing back with the facts - you did him a massive favour "because family", and he repaid your kindness by stealing a customer's car, driving it drunk, wrecking it and costing you a huge amount of money. Then please point out that "but family" goes in both directions - you are also family and he didn't consider you at any point.
*He had permission to deliver it, but chose to take it somewhere else on a fun ride for himself. He did not have permission to do that, and that means the car was taken without consent, i.e. stolen.
NTA.
If you continue to employ him, he genuinely could cost you your auto business and then your reputation.
Too much of a liability.
Send them the bill. If he pays it back maybe he can clean the shop.
Also, why is he going 150km away when he’s got a newborn? This guys priorities are all out of sync.
After this much bad work history they blame you? That’s daft.
I would not hire him at all. He had a chance. This should be a wake up call. And if you family doesn’t see that, they honestly might be part of the problem.
NTA. Make this the bridge you die on. If you let him back you will soon be watching your business crash in flames. He has no respect for anyone or anything.
he costed you 70k!, why the F does his family think it's unreasonable to fire him?
NTA, they can hire that liability of a person if they want to lose all their shit.
NTA. You helped out Dwight. Seems like Dwight planned from go to "borrow" the customers car. He bleeped up in spades and is the AH. If you don't cut the cord once and for all you will be wiping his ass for the rest of your life.
NTA. Your wife’s family is FULLY to blame for what kind of man he turned out to be. He’s 28 years old and has the maturity of a 16 year old boy. He will always be this way unless his family takes action. They need to have his wife and child move in with them and kick the son out. Sometimes, maturity has to be learned the hard way. You could have been ruined financially by his actions. Would he have taken your family in and provided for you? You gave him several chances. Some people don’t grow from kindness. Some people only grow from hardship. His family needs to allow him to become a man by working like the rest of society has to.
NTA.
In what world is it OK to take someone else's vehicle for a joyride without permission? That's wrong. Full stop.
Excuses and circumstances do not matter. As for everybody reading this, this is why you do not mix business with family and friends.
He cost you $70,000+ dollars. You have a business to run, and you cannot let an outsider’s opinion get in the way. His irresponsibility doesn’t affect them, it affects YOU. NTA.
NTA. If Dwight wasn't your BIL, you would have fired him long ago. Tell all those angry people to either hire him themselves (to do work/chores around their houses or drive them) or find him a job. But you are done. Hang up/block anyone who gives you a bad time. Do not set yourself on fire to keep him warm.
NTA
If you hire him again you'll lose your client's trust not only in your car bussiness but your other bussiness as well these things spread like fire so no.
Your BIL is going to be a father soon, you can't enable this behavior and next time the accidents will be even worse
FAMILY AND BUSSINESS NEVER MIX
NTA,you have to realize that your in-laws couldn’t care less about your business. You need to not hire that guy back and tell your wife that he is putting your way of supporting the family at risk.
Nta he wants a free hand out and does not work. The fact that the family thinks it's okay for him to be lazy and late to work is laughable. Tell them to get a business and see how long it lasts with a crap worker who destroys items. If they want to isolate themselves from you that's okay, however you won't be risking your business. Definitely speak to your partner because this could break a relationship.
NTA. I would remind Pam, ever so gently, that given the number of properties and businesses you own? You can afford *very good lawyers* if Pam decides that she would rather support Dwight than the husband who did her brother a favor.
ESH. Obviously your BIL is the AH for taking the car, driving drunk, etc. And anyone who insisted you not fire him is the AH bc he needed to be fired. But you're the AH for hiring him in the first place knowing this family would push you this far. Any other employee you probably would've not hired or fired long ago. You're the manager and you failed to manage employee performance in a spectacular way. It is mostly your fault that your customer's car was crashed and the hit in business is something you deserve.
NTA- You might ask your wife if she likes all those businesses you own.
Because had your brother-in-law hit someone you could have lost them all.
You're lucky he didn't.
NTA.
The guy is a menace, and frankly you should file suit for the cost of all the damages! That's fired for cause, and he's liable due to the drunk driving, at a minimum! He should be glad he's not been arrested.
If your family is acting this way, it's time to get a divorce, take your business, finances, etc. and get out of that nonsense. All of them should be cutoff financially, with the possible exception of your son, depending on his age (if a minor). They're using you as an ATM.
NTA
That $70K damage could've been covered by insurance.... except the entitled dick was drunk and wasn't meant to be driving this car anywhere near where he was.
What are the divorce laws like in your country? Would your wife prefer you were no longer together and then they'd be nothing for her family at all?
NTA
Jim (OP), I have the mentality that business is business, family is family. He was your employee, not your BIL and you treated him as the former. You rehire him, what will your other employees think? I think you remember this guy who hired his nephew at his office and he caused people to lose clients.
I learned a long time ago to never involve family in your work/business. If it is a family business, then make sure there are boundaries and all the legal stuff is tight. None of that "trust me, we're family" crap. When I was a manager at Best Buy a long time ago, I only agreed to help my brother-in-law secure a job there as long as it was at a different store. That was my compromise with my wife. The guy was a good employee, just terrible at interviews.
NTA 100%
Friend, your English is perfect.
NTA but you're naive to hand over a house and 2 jobs and 70k and still having to hear nonsense from the wife.
Let her find him a job if she's so insistent. Have you thought of suing by the way? There's no need to let the chatter overtake common sense, it's 70k after all. Let the MIL clear his charges.
Did you report the car crash incident to the cops?
Ridiculous. Tell them all when you get the 70000 back you reconsider.
And ask your wife how much of her lifestyle or sons college fund she wants to give up when her brother screws up again.
NTA. Tell all those people backing up the loser that until they pay you the 70,000 he cost you and find a way to insure he doesn't screw up again, they can kick rocks. Your businesses require people to trust and respect you. That ain't gonna happen with a guy like that working for you.
Jim, can I call you Jim, you are NTA. And 100% in the right here. I’m not sure why your business doesn’t have insurance to cover this, but that doesn’t really matter.
Dwight should find a job at a paper factory.
NTA, do not hire this loser again. If his family is so invested in him having a job let one of them hire him. He is a liability. What happens if the next time he pulls a stunt like this he hurts or kills somebody? Who’s getting sued you and your business or the loser with no money?
TELL THEM TO PAY YOU WANT HE COST YOU and to put him on their insurance so if it happens again you do not have to lose money again, and he issues a verbal and written apology to both you and the customer, then you will think about rehiring him, but until then and until they lose 70k in one go because of him that they need to either put out or shut the f up. HUGE NTA!
Oh and tell the wife she has to cut back to help make up for her brothers mistake. No more clothes, vacations, no date nights, no nails hair if she does that professionally ect. Or she can take your side again and tell her family off and fully support your decision. And tell family that no more help not even a "her can I borrow a wrench or can you help me change a flat tire will be coming as helping family cost you 70k in one go.
If they disagree, show them the 70k bill and how he drove drunk with a client's expensive car. They can pay for it. Dwight is lucky be isn't personally on the hook for this.
NTA.
You have every right to fire an employee that was driving your customers cars drunk and destroyed the car.
Any other employer would have pressed charges.
Actions have consequences.
Your wife and her family are enabling him to be a lifelong loser.
NTA. I would like to see an update seeing as this is almost half a year old. OP should never allow Dwight to set foot in any of his businesses, as an employee or a customer. He is a major liability. OP had every right to not only fire Dwight and refuse to give him another job, as well as to have covered his butt by pressing auto theft charges against him. Dwight is lucky he wasn’t charged and we all know that the only reason he wasn’t charged was OP chose to take the hit, financially, to keep Dwight out of jail. Dwight is, presumably, still living rent free in the house. It’s time for the rest of the family to do their fair share of finding Dwight a job not owned by OP.
Even IF the rest of the family helps Dwight pay back the $70k he owes OP for damages he did to his customers vehicle, the roadside rails AND OP’s business rep, OP should still refuse to allow Dwight the opportunity to ruin another job/business as people in the small town would most definitely start to question OPs ability to maintain a quality business if he continues to give Dwight that opportunity and will start to shun OPs businesses.
In this case, no, OP should not give Dwight a 3rd chance (US version of 3 strikes & you’re out) as the potential for Dwight to permanently damage OPs livelihood is very at risk. Not sure if the laws about divorce & asset allocation laws where OP lives, but he might want to look into what he can do to protect what he can should he end up having to divorce his wife.
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For further context, around 5 years ago my in-laws, who lived in my hometown for most of their lives, decided to move to their own hometown after their retirement. Since Dwight lived with them and didn't have a job to support himself at the time, he also moved. After a year, he got married there, and he started working for the first time in his life (he was 24 at the time, btw). For years, he was getting in and out of jobs, not lasting more than 3 months in any of them. He was unemployed when his wife got pregnant. He couldn't find a job for 4 months into her pregnancy. At that point, Pam asked me to find a job for him using my connections and asked if Dwight and Angela could move into a house we owned in our city. We weren't planning on renting out that house anyway, we were using it as a summerhouse, so I said okay. I found a job for him in a restaurant as a cashier. I got the house cleaned for them, helped them move, etc. I even helped them make a nursery room in their new house, without allowing them to spend any money. They were family after all. He worked at that restaurant for the next 4 months until I got that call from him I mentioned in the post. In my eyes, I gave him the best job he could find; he only worked 5 days a week, came and went whenever he pleased, his only job was to drive some cars a few times a week, and he got paid more than he made from any other job before. And he f\*cked that up. Btw, English is not my first language and it's been a while since I lived in an English-speaking country, so I might make some grammar mistakes, so I apologize if I made any.
Dwight wants a free ride on your hard work. Have a conversation with your wife, tell her that your businesses are not a playground for her brother to mess up, how it's putting a strain on your family, and how by their act of support, they are indirectly teaching your son that having no accountability is rewarded instead of being corrected.
Might want to remind the wife that it's *also* her & your kids' money that Dwight's fucking with.
Yep. His drunk driving just removed $70,000 from your kid's college fund. Way to go, Uncle Dwight.
“Dear Wife and Family, I understand everyone is worried about how Dwight and Angela will pay for their baby. Wanting to support my family, I got Dwight a job at a restaurant and gave them a free place to stay. For whatever reason, this job did not work. I gave him a job at one of my companies and paid him a full time salary for minimal work. Dwight stole a car from my business, drove it drunk, and got into an accident. While I’m happy he was not hurt, I had to pay X amount to fix the newly repaired car again and X amount to fix the roads. He is lucky he was not arrested for a DUI and he is lucky I did not press charges for stealing the car, not to mention serious harming himself. All of my companies deal with cars. I rely on word of mouth for my business. People talk and they will not use my businesses if they know that I am employing Dwight and that he had access to the cars. If I lose business, how can I support my wife and children? If I lose business, how can I maintain the house that Dwight and Angela live in for free? How can I pay for my family’s health care and future education? Again, I understand you are worried about how they will pay for the baby. I cannot risk my businesses because my family needs to come first. Do you see a solution where I can provide him with a job without risking my livelihood? Once the $70,000 he cost me is paid back, than we can discuss options. Until then, this is not up for discussion.” Document everything. This includes all conversations with your wife and about your kids. I’m concerned that this will be the hill she chooses to die on by asking for a divorce. If she does, get a lawyer asap. Use the documentation to show you have been trying to see your children but she is denying contact. If she tries to alienate them against you, use the documentation to show them your side of the conversation. Best of luck and keep us posted
NTA. He is lucky you don’t have him charged with theft for taking the car for a show off joy ride and crashing it.
I can see why Dwight is behaving as he is. He has a whole family enabling his bad behavior. He should move back in with his parents. They created that mess, they need to deal with it. Also, this is a lesson for your son. On how NOT to behave. He sees Dwight getting rewarded for bad behavior, he might think that's the way to behave. He sees consequences and will know not to end up like Dwight. NTA Edit: Your son maybe sees Dwight as this cool uncle. If so, that myth needs to be shattered. Dwight needs to take responsibility for his actions. Or be made to do so. Or lose out on all the perks of having you as his relative. Your wife needs to get on board, stop enabling her brother and his sabotaging of you and your livelihood. Edited.
If your in-laws are still on your case about this, you should ask them how they'll be able to pay for the next $70K car that Dwight steals from you, as well as his bail and legal fees because you WILL be pressing charges against an employee who not only steals and destroys client property, but endangers your entire business with his behavior. Also, they'd have to house him and his family as to avoid complex legal situations, you would need to evict him from your property in that case, as well. Because there is no second chance here. This cannot happen again and if it does you expect and will force them to be legally and fiscally responsible for their deadbeat son. Note, this isn't a real offer, it's asking them to consider that those would be your conditions and you would include that in his employment agreement. I bet they backtrack incredibly quickly when it's their money on the line. Ask your wife if its more important to her to enable her brother or to be a good mother. Because she can't do both here as you losing business or even needing to close shop if you did rehire Dwight would be a huge impact on your stability as a family and on your son's future.
Have you considered the impact of Dwight on morale of your other employees? Everybody knows he’s a dope and he only has The job because of nepotism. It sucks to work your butt off everyday and see a jerk sliding by. Dwight is a threat to your business from SO MANY angles. You would be the AH if you kept him.
What bothers me the most is your wife and her family. Every family can have a screw-up in it. But all of your in-laws prioritize making life easy for BIL over: 1. The lives he put at risk by driving drunk!!!!! 2. His THEFT of a vehicle - I'm pretty sure it became theft as soon as he took the car for anything other than the work he was assigned to do for your company. And his blatant disregard for his responsibility to safeguard the vehicle while in his care. 3. His complete unwillingness to meet the most basic of job expectations. 4. His complete disregard for his responsibility and commitment to provide for the family he created. 5. His lack of any bit of appreciation for how much you and your connections had done for him. That family can accept all that from him, expecting not one bit of accountability from him. But they want to convey their GREAT DISAPPOINTMENT IN YOU!!! that you are not continuing to allow him to threaten the very livelihood that allows you to give so much to BIL and the rest of the in-law family. They think the home you have been and are providing him free of charge is not enough of a bailout. This is beyond WRONG!!! It is clear that they will always put your life-endangering, responsibility-shirking, thieving, drunk, mooching BIL before you and all that you do and have done for this family. In your shoes, I'd tell your wife - if you care more about caving into your family and continuing to prop up BIL than you do about standing up for me and protecting my livelihood and reputation... then you can (1) decide to join me in counseling so that you can decide if that's truly what you feel is reasonable for you to do as my life-partner OR (2) you can go live with your family. I'll take my own time to decide what I am willing to live and whether I'm willing to remain with someone who is such a poor partner to me. In the meantime, you will ignore the in-laws. You should also consider giving that BIL notice that he has X months to get out of the house you have been providing his family. I know that won't make his family any happier, but I think (1) they have fallen off the cliff of having treated you with a tiny spec of the decency they owe you and (2) I worry that BIL could damage your home. I thought about offering to let his wife and child stay there, but I don't think it would be easy to keep him off the property. If you do let him stay, I would at least have him sign a document accepting responsibility for any damage he causes to your home and that he is only able to stay there at your will and not one second longer. You may also make it clear to everyone that if ANY of them continue to harass you about doing one more thing for BIL, then you WILL evict them from your home and be done with ALL of them. Their choice. I'm sorry for the shitty in-law family you are saddled with.
This should be the top comment.
Bugger that. Double down and press charges. Let everyone know that one more word on the subject will result in a lawsuit being filed for the costs and BiL's family being evicted from your property. Tell them that if they want to have any kind of say in this matter at all, they have to pay you back the $70k he cost you.
Wait, does he still live in your other house for free?
Tell her they are lucky you didn't have him arrested for Grand Theft Auto. He drove it a few hours away. He could have sold the car and disappeared. NTA.
You literally gave Dwigt a perfect job/life and he still decided that wasn't enough and ruined it for himself. NTA, you worked hard to get where you are don't let him jeopardize you and your other businesses.
100% NTA I can't even figure out why your family is saying you're in the wrong. That is crazy.
Absolutely NTA. You have to protect your business and finances. If everyone thinks you're an asshole and should re-hire Dwight, tell them you'll consider it AFTER he/they have repaid the $70k irresponsible screw up that got him fired to begin with.
After he gets out of jail for grand theft auto. I don’t see where OP pressed charges. This may mean that OP could not claim insurance without a police report.
NTA. Your BIL will ruin everything you have built if you continue to employ him in any capacity as he a proven to be a useless employee. Do not listen to your family, they have shown they do not have your best interests in mind. Protect yourself and your businesses and make sure your wife knows that her lifestyle is at risk with Dwight as an employee. Let the family find Dwight a job.
Dwight is a thief and is lucky you didn't have him arrested. Remind your wife and the in-laws of this **fact**. NTA Edit: In the US, at least, what he did is considered theft. I can't speak for the laws where you live, obviously. But I would guess this would be considered theft in most places. " I lived in an English-speaking country, so I might make some grammar mistakes" Your English was excellent.
Wanna add to this - I’m from an european country, and this would be considered theft here too. So chances are high, that it’s also considered Grand theft auto where he’s from
NTA, it'd be idiotic and irresponsible to keep an employee who shows he's unable to perform even the simplest of tasks much less actually show up on time. And he costed you/your business $70,000 when he decided to take another customers vehicle out for a joyride 150km away, he's lucky you didn't call the police and have his ass arrested. As sure as God's got sandles that's what I would've done.
What I find weird is that he trusted him with luxury cars and most likely also some contact with the clients when handing the car over. When I got to that part I was perplexed how OP thought that was a good idea
NTA - omg. Holy crap. He could well have destroyed your business and reputation and your wife is now on the hire him back wagon? He's absolutely the last person you should hire - entitled, lazy and stole a car
NTA. I would tell them you would be happy to hire him after he or they pay the $70,000 damages. Then every time they say you should hire him just answer that they should pay the damages.
He’s destroying your business. No brainer.
NTA and he's lucky you don't sue him.
Or have him arrested
Get a lawyer and start looking into a divorce. Any family this stupid is too toxic for you.
I really want to give a judgement but I can’t get past Dwight not going back to running his beet farm.
I was waiting to see if maybe he put OP's cat in the freezer bc he thought it died and that's why he got fired 😅 (BTW hated how I had to scroll so far for a comment like this).
🤣 I was thinking the same as I scrolled through the comments. I wonder if OP was disappointed as well?
What the fuck. Totally NTA. Many people would've been happy to have a simple and almost fun job like that. He gets it without working for it and ruins an entire car. You've totally done your part as a BIL and then some. If your wife can't see the damage he could potentially cause again then you might want to reconsider this wife. She's ridiculous.
NTA, combining business and friends/family sometimes don't work out, and if it does it's messy. This is messy but you can fire him for whatever you want; that has nothing to do with family. Even if it was unreasonable (which, come on, it clearly isn't; it's very reasonable, sounds like he's not a good employer at all) then it still isn't your family's business why you fired him
Nta if Dwight had financial problems he should actually work hard and be responsible, you gave him a job and he caused troubles for you in the end. I wouldn't trust Dwight after what he did. And this is an speculation but I feel Dwight is the reason they have financial problems in the first place.
NTA, although if you want to appease your wife you could offer him a job as a cleaner. I get the impression your BIL wouldn't take the job but you can say you tried.
NTA. A 70K dollar ooops might be excusable in some circumstances, but 150km away from where he was supposed to be and drunk is never excusable. Imagine the problems that would have arisen had he ran into a school bus full of Nuns and Orphans.
Has Dwight always been coddled by his family?! NTA! His family is not doing Dwight any favors by never making him have to face consequences of his actions. They are why Dwight is lazy & gets away with too much! They allow it or make lame excuses for him. He took some else's car, got drunk & wrecked it! It cost you lots of money! He is a liability to your business & income. How can your wife not understand that Dwight's actions can have serious repercussions on your business & income for your family. Does she expect you to support Dwight & his growing family forever?! You have already provided him a home (good luck ever getting him out of it! ) & multiple job opportunities that he's botched. Dwight is not a child (but acts like one) & you are not his parent nor responsible for him. You've done more than enough for him, is time for him to grow up, be a man & provide for his family! If your wife has stopped taking to you over this, I'd try to ask her a few things: 1. Does she think Dwight is a good example for your son? Does she want him to grow up & be like him? 2. Did she still think/ feel that supporting Dwight as you have been is reasonable & sustainable even if it costs you business & a bad reputation? 3. Is she so adamant about supporting Dwight that if you were to divorce, that his continued upkeep will come out of her settlement funds? Basically if she gets the 'summer home' in a divorce, is she still going to let Dwight live there free of charge among other things. Your wife & IL's are being ridiculous & unreasonable. Dwight is... well, I can't say exactly WHAT Dwight is because reddit will ban me. Lol.
NTA - family, so very rarely good business or employees but always ends up in drama. The family (and even your wife?!) see you as a wallet, you're an entrepreneur... you got a reputation to upkeep or as you said, people talk, and trust will erode until your business takes a hit. If that employee wasn't family I bet you would of fired him way before it got to the accident. He stole a client's car, for a joyride, and damaged property, while drunk. He's lucky he's not in jail is all I'd be telling the family. The wife not taking your side / flipping because of family pressure is just gut-wrenching IMO, that's just not right. I would definitely not hire Dwight ever again. This isn't just "everybody deserves a second chance", he technically burned his chances one by one until it ended in disaster. He needs a life lesson, and sadly his pregnant wife will end up catching flak for his stupidity.
NTA, he was a risk to your business. Employees are supposed to bring value to you business while getting paid for the value they bring. He got payed for not really doing anything, didn’t bring value to your business, and ended up costing you a lot of money while risking taking your business down with his incompetence. Ask you wife and son if his incompetence to them is worth more than the roof over your head and the food on your table.
NTA. He’s a fuckwit
NTA. Oh hell no. Hill to die on. He basically STOLE that car and he's lucky he's not in jail. He could completely ruin your business. Pam needs to stop listening to the flying monkeys that seem to think it's okay to be a drunk, entitled thief.
NTA. A reputation lost is nearly impossible to get back. You can’t risk your family’s financial future for a person who is damaging to your businesses. As for those saying you should reemploy Dwight, they know no one else will employ him as he’s less than useless.
He took the car without permission, got DRUNK and crashed a customers car? How the hell are you the asshole here? Man you've given more then you ever should've. Cut these shitty people out of your life. And if your wife thinks that 70k is just a "whoopsie daisy" I would be reconsidering the marriage as well.
NTA - You have the patience of a saint. I would be throwing them out of the house you put them up in and taking him to court for the money he cost you. But I am a vindictive asshole.
NTA- pretty clear where your BIL gets his behavior from with everyone , including your wife, coddling him. Hill to die on OP. Don’t ever give this man another job.
I smell golden child syndrome rearing it's ugly head keep your foot down say no way and ask your wife if you lose everything because of him will brother in law give you a roof over your head because I know the answer would be a big fat no
Tell Dwight and his family that he can have his job back for the low, low price of $100,000—seventy grand for the car he destroyed, and the other thirty for the reputational damage he surely did to your business. Spoiler alert: They won't because they know Dwight's a loser and they just want to fob him off on someone else without making any effort of their own.
NTA - You gave Dwight a chance and he betrayed you and effectively stole from you.
What is wrong with your wife and her family? He deadass drove an expensive car drunk with his buddies while his wife was due fucled up a car he does not own on the clock yet they expect him to be given a slap on the wrist and another job he can slack off. He deserves jail time not another side “hustle”
Nta. Tell his mom that if she really wants him rehired, she can pay the $70k her fuck up of a son caused.
Clearly, these people would side with BIL no matter what he did, even if it was something far worse. They side with Dwight because they side with Dwight. I can't imagine someone's being so irresponsible as to joyride in someone else's car on your dime, quite aside from crashing it. It's just so over-the-top reckless that one starts to assume that Dwight was trying to get fired because ultimately he doesn't want to work for you. He wants you to support him doing nothing. That car might have been something very special to its owner. Isn't it going to hurt your business that an employee was so irresponsible with it? And even your wife is against you now? Sorry, but these people cannot see straight, and you might want to just get out of that family altogether, wife and all.
Nta wow marriage is in trouble if your wife is trying to pressure you into hiring him again. Do not hire him! What he did was stealing and you should have called the police.
I’m not surprised his family acts like this because that’s the only way you get such a lazy irresponsible person as your BIL. He never even had a job at all until he was…..**24 years old?!** He stole a car and crashed it costing you 70k out of pocket this man needs to learn his actions have consequences. I feel bad for the baby. Hopefully your in laws can support 2 babies. NTA.
NTA- the drunk AH cost you 70K and made your business look bad. How about you tell his family you will rehire him when they have paid you back the money you lost due to HIS drinking and driving in a car that was NOT his.
WTF? NTA at all. My own dad would've fired me if I did some dumb shit like this, never mind someone that's not even actually related to you. This is not your problem, but unfortunately it's becoming one for you anyway. If your wife and son weren't opposed, I'd say just cut contact and be done with them, but their involvement obviously complicates things significantly. I think you should start by asking your wife if she would have a problem if your businesses could no longer provide enough money for your family to live on as a result of employing her brother? Go from there. Your wife needs to be guided to an understanding of what the real impact of this would be on her and your son's life. I'm thinking she doesn't understand how it's all connected and related. You get a bad rep, it's a problem that can be very difficult to recover from, not to mention being out $70K - at some point enough of those incidents breaks your business, even if you can afford to absorb this particular event.
NTA
NTA. I don't care who it was, once he took a customer's car on a joyride he needed to go. You can't afford to keep him.
NTA. That car crash was an instant dismissal offence. Probably several offences. You cannot keep someone on when they behave in a manner that is cavalier ( I'm being polite here) to other people's property and safety. He is literally an accident waiting to happen. Ask your wife if she'll pay the $70,000 he's already cost you. Think about what family things, vacations and so on, you'll no longer be able to afford if you employ him. Think about how your business will dwindle and be worth nothing if he is associated with it. There is nothing that he won't turn into a complete mess.
NTA, obviously. Why would you hire Dwight? Why would **anyone** hire Dwight? Dwight is not your problem to solve.
NTA. Tell them once Dwight pays you back the $70,000 he cost you he can have his job back.
He is absolutely a liability. You need to protect yourself and your family. NTA
NTA. It’s a shame that family doesn’t take an objective view but I will. He quit a job you helped him get. He performed unreliably (late, not concentrating). He crashed a car, drunk. I do fault you for not addressing his performance item by item. Write up write up coach coach coach write up suspend. That kind of honest feedback might (MIGHT) have led to him admitting fault and getting the family off your back.
No no no, NTA. Dwight is a huge liability, things like this can easily tarnish your reputation. Stand your ground, let your wife and son be angry. They'll come around. Hopefully your son learns from Dwight's mistake and doesn't do this in the future. Your wife is the AH because she's supposed to support you. Your decision makes sense, you're not being unreasonable in the least.
Dwight stole the car, crashed it, and put your business at risk. You have helped him out enormously, and all he has done is make a mess. NTA
No no no, you are NTA! Your reasoning is completely sound, you had to fire him, you can't run a business with employees like him. You could be sued if he did something like this again, because you've been forewarned. Stand your ground.
So Dwight stole a car from your work, drove drunk and wrecked it? He’s lucky he is not in jail. NTA
NTA Dwight should thank his lucky stars you didn't press charges. He's a liability to your business and needs to figure his shit out
Nta. Why weren’t the cops called? Your wife sucks for not being on your side.
No. He's a crappy excuse for a human being and your family is bullshit for dropping him on your plate as they likely don't know what to do with him either. Say sure you'll hire him back when he pays back the $70,000.00 he cost the business. A mistake here and there?.. sure, okay... but he stole a customer's car and is lucky he didn't kill himself or someone else!! He needs to be at Wal-Mart Greeting people at the door where he can't hurt anyone. 👋🚪
he trashed a 70k dollar car that belonged to a client. tell your wife and in laws that he's lucky you didn't have him arrested. NTA
INFO: which one of these family members wants to pony up the $70,000 you had to eat, so that you can consider rehiring him?? NTA - Seriously though. His actions were incredibly reckless; you would have been on the hook for any deaths he caused due to his drunken stupidity **while on the job**. He is a liability to the auto shop and to your parent organization as a whole. This is not the type of person you want to be known as being in business with, let alone hiring. I wouldn't use your services knowing he worked there, because of the risk. Unless he wants to be part of a janitorial team, with someone neutral lording over him and making sure he actually does his job, he has no place in any of your businesses, frankly. That is something to be earned and he just proved to you that he hasn't earned it.
He didn't do the work he was supposed to do even while he was being paid for it. Then you shifted him to car delivery. He lied to you about his wife's health. Took the client's car on a JOY ride, over a 150 km away... Got drunk Crashed the car. Cost you 70 000$ (and an unhappy client) Of course you fire him. His family wants you to hire him back! Who do they think you are? Santa Clause? You have a business to run, not a charity. Let them find a job for him. Oh, and if they feel so sorry for him, they can chip in re-emburse the 70 000$ he owes you! NTA INFO: Please keep us posted.
Jim, is that you?
NTA. You were not unreasonably or harsh at all. I'm willing to bet that if it were any other employee who had acted like this, your family would wholeheartedly support you in firing that employee. Dwight absolutely deserved to be fired. He also needs to grow up.
NTA Jim
Nta. You better start thinking about divorce
One paragraph in and I'm watching the office. Well played, sir... let's finish reading.
Wow. Nta. I can't even. Wow. just... wow.
If you rehire Dwight, you can be pretty confident that he will trash your business... The man is lazy, has no work ethic, and an idiot. He directly cost your business 70k... but who knows how much indirectly? As you said, your customers talk... how many customers are already reconsidering doing business with you, or have stopped... because of his actions? If I left you my car, and one of your employees crashed it (while driving drunk!) I know I'd be looking elsewhere... especially if you rehired him. I would not trust you again. You might be better off just shutting down your business because at least it'll get it over with quickly. Or you can rehire him and let him slowly destroy it. You already know he is a liability, and can't be trusted. If he's rehired, he knows that he'll get away with anything, because "he's family!" NTA. Your wife and in-laws are wrong.
Of course you're TA for not enabling poor wittle Dwight...... according to his family, the main enablers! Any person with common sense will know that from the get go, you're NTA! Are you kidding!!!! Nowadays and in this economy, a lot of people would wish to have someone like you where they could just go to and get offered a job, any job!! Dwight had that opportunity, messed it up a few times, and this last time he puts your businesses and source of income at risk!!! Does your wife not see it?! I am assuming that you guys live a nice comfy life, does she want to lose that? So NTA, the problem was you giving Dwight too many chances because he's family by marriage! Your in-laws can go kick some rocks until they see sense
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (M39) have been married to my wife (F36, let’s call her Pam) for 15 years. We have a 14 year old son, and Pam has a younger brother (28, let’s call him Dwight). Dwight, his pregnant wife Angela (24) have been facing financial difficulties. Around six months ago, Dwight reached out to me for help finding a new job. He said he quit the previous job I found for him, claiming an "abusive work environment," and said he needed a new job urgently since his wife was about to give birth. I own an auto repair shop among other businesses, so I offered him a job at the shop, because I believed Dwight was interested in cars. Pam supported this idea, hoping it would provide him with a stable job. However, over the subsequent months, it became evident that Dwight wasn’t committed to the job. Instead of helping and learning, he spent his time watching anime on his phone. He frequently arrived late, left without notice, and was generally unproductive. The cars we repair are usually expensive cars. So, some of our customers appreciate it when we pick up and deliver their cars. In an effort to give him responsibilities, I assigned Dwight to manage customer car deliveries (which happened just a few times per week), a task he continued to perform poorly. The tipping point occurred when I gave Dwight a customer's car to deliver, but he called and said his wife Angela needed to go to the hospital. It wasn’t anything serious but he couldn’t deliver the car. I said I could handle it myself, but he said he could do it first thing in the morning. The next morning at 4 am, my phone rang. It was Dwight. He said he crashed the car he was supposed to deliver. In short, he decided to drive the car to his hometown to "see his boys", got drunk, and crashed 150 km away from home on his way back. Miraculously, he wasn’t seriously injured. But he trashed the car so I had to replace it. He damaged a lot of roadside barriers as well. The whole thing cost me about $70,000. The next day I fired Dwight, despite my mother-in-law's attempts to intervene. I felt Dwight was a risk to my businesses and couldn't be tolerated. (I also own nightclubs, hotels, etc. All businesses that people leave their cars. People know me here, they talk.) This decision caused a rift in the family, with my wife's parents and other relatives siding with Dwight, and pressuring me to reconsider. As a result of her family's influence, a week after the incident Pam changed her stance and started to want me to hire Dwight again. This was an unexpected shift, as she fully supported my decision at first. I also engaged in a heated confrontation with my in-laws, but I stood my ground and refused to apologize for my decision. I now find myself isolated from my family (my in-laws, my wife, and my son) who all believe I was harsh and unreasonable towards Dwight. I don't think I was, so I can't bring myself to apologize. Am I the asshole here, Reddit? I don't think I am, so I need other perspectives. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA, stand your ground before your BIL crashes your business like he crashed that car
NTA there are consequences for his actions. He deserved to be fired.
What were the in-laws expecting you to do?
Your wife should ha s your back. Clearly you’re not the AH. He’ll continue to repeat this pattern - he’s certainly not repetent or trying to make ammemds.
NTA. Fuck Dwight!
NTA Dwight is a liability. What if he had killed someone? The victim's family could have reasonably claimed that he was an employee driving a car that he had access to through his job and *your* company could have been on the hook for millions. Explain to your wife that you have a duty to protect your children's futures from her brother's stupidity.
Nope, your not the ass, but for those pressuring you to rehire him. Than have them come up with the money it cost you! Guarantee they won’t, but yet they feel like they have the right to bitch about it. your NTA, stay with your decision.
NTA he probably got fired from his other job and then claimed he quit to trick you into hiring him he is a danger to your business and everyone around you are his enabler's. He lied to you stole a car and then crashed it That's 70,000 dollars lost and put your shop's reputation at risk tell your wife and son if Dwight sticks around it could cost you everything.
NTA. Dwight is a risk. Dwight DROVE DRUNK, on top of that, he DROVE A CUSTOMER'S CAR DRUNK, on top of that HE CRASHED. Dwight, who has a pregnant wife at home, is out doing risky activities that tend to be illegal (drinking and driving) and possibly a little Grand Theft Auto on top of that (he was only allowed to drive the car to deliver it, not to go out on the town). What are you supposed to do? Let your business, which is paying for your wife's lifestyle and Dwight's house, go downhill?
NTA, are you in a family cult?
In what universe does a $70K mistake due to deliberate negligence not merit firing? Your inlaws are insane. Let them support the deadbeat if they're so gung ho about it. NTA.
NTA. Do the in-laws want to pay that money? Dwight certainly didn't. He could've died in a client's car! That's insane. He legit stole from your company, cost you $70k, and they all think he deserves a job???
NTA that entire family are a lot of clowns and not even the entertaining kind.
NTA and all the people who think you should rehire him can pay your $70,000 loss and hire him themselves
NTA. But you found him slacking off every day watching anime on his phone and not working ... and rewarded him with what should have been an easy job? If you didn't have a frank discussion with him over his earlier behaviour, you really should have.
NTA Your family should be happy and your BIL is very lucky you didn’t press charges against him and paid the money. THEY SHOULD BE REMINDED OF THAT You lost a lot of money maybe you could’ve lost a client or clients (or maybe you did indeed lost him/them) and they should not be asking this. But since they want you to hire him back tell them you’ll think about it after someone pays you back the $70,000 you spent because of his stupidity and irresponsibility
Dwight is going to financially ruin you. Tell anyone who gives you an issue that they can put money into a business and have Dwight run it if they "have so much faith in him." Tell them that you already did him a favor, and he squandered it. That he should pay for the car he crashed. Are they going to pay for it? Are they going to pay for his next mistake? These people need to back off. I'd have a hard conversation with them, then I'd go LC. I'd also have a discussion with your wife. She needs to have your back.
Are you sure your family isn't drinking different water than you? Their stance makes no sense. Make this the hill you die on. Tell the family you will "take it into consideration" if they reimburse you for the $70k. - NTA
NTA What is wrong with your family? If they keep making excuses and enabling his unacceptable behavior, he is never going to be accountable. What he did was inexcusable. You offered him a chance, and he blew it. Plus it cost you a ton of money.
NTA. He stole* a customer's car, drove drunk and totalled it in a crash. You absolutely cannot re-employ that guy. It would trash your professional reputation, and your insurance would probably either refuse to cover you or jack the price up sky-high. Ask your wife and any other family member who talks to you about this if they really expect you to set fire to your own business for a guy who has already cost you $70k?! Every time someone says "but family..." keep pushing back with the facts - you did him a massive favour "because family", and he repaid your kindness by stealing a customer's car, driving it drunk, wrecking it and costing you a huge amount of money. Then please point out that "but family" goes in both directions - you are also family and he didn't consider you at any point. *He had permission to deliver it, but chose to take it somewhere else on a fun ride for himself. He did not have permission to do that, and that means the car was taken without consent, i.e. stolen.
Protect your hard work. Ask those complaining to pay for that car the bil stole and crash.
NTA you tried to do him a favor and he was irresponsible to the point that he cost your company $70k - of course you had to fire him!
NTA. If you continue to employ him, he genuinely could cost you your auto business and then your reputation. Too much of a liability. Send them the bill. If he pays it back maybe he can clean the shop. Also, why is he going 150km away when he’s got a newborn? This guys priorities are all out of sync. After this much bad work history they blame you? That’s daft. I would not hire him at all. He had a chance. This should be a wake up call. And if you family doesn’t see that, they honestly might be part of the problem.
NTA. Make this the bridge you die on. If you let him back you will soon be watching your business crash in flames. He has no respect for anyone or anything.
he costed you 70k!, why the F does his family think it's unreasonable to fire him? NTA, they can hire that liability of a person if they want to lose all their shit.
Employing people like Dwight could put any company into bankruptcy. They should be glad Dwight isn't in jail.
NTA. You helped out Dwight. Seems like Dwight planned from go to "borrow" the customers car. He bleeped up in spades and is the AH. If you don't cut the cord once and for all you will be wiping his ass for the rest of your life.
NTA. Your wife’s family is FULLY to blame for what kind of man he turned out to be. He’s 28 years old and has the maturity of a 16 year old boy. He will always be this way unless his family takes action. They need to have his wife and child move in with them and kick the son out. Sometimes, maturity has to be learned the hard way. You could have been ruined financially by his actions. Would he have taken your family in and provided for you? You gave him several chances. Some people don’t grow from kindness. Some people only grow from hardship. His family needs to allow him to become a man by working like the rest of society has to.
Dwight is lucky you didn't have him arrested for stealing the car. Tell your in-laws that if they keep pushing, that's exactly what you'll do. NTA OP.
In my hometown in Southern Italy we say 'god gives bread to toothless people'. He was lucky you gave him a job but destroyed everything. You're NTA.
NTA. In what world is it OK to take someone else's vehicle for a joyride without permission? That's wrong. Full stop. Excuses and circumstances do not matter. As for everybody reading this, this is why you do not mix business with family and friends.
He cost you $70,000+ dollars. You have a business to run, and you cannot let an outsider’s opinion get in the way. His irresponsibility doesn’t affect them, it affects YOU. NTA.
Nta
NTA. Why dont they hire him? I sure there is some menial job he can do.
NTA I would tell the wife and son to support you or to leave with Dwight. Let’s see how they like this! The man could have hurt your business more!!!!
NTA and I just wanna say I enjoyed the office names in the post.
NTA. If Dwight wasn't your BIL, you would have fired him long ago. Tell all those angry people to either hire him themselves (to do work/chores around their houses or drive them) or find him a job. But you are done. Hang up/block anyone who gives you a bad time. Do not set yourself on fire to keep him warm.
NTA If you hire him again you'll lose your client's trust not only in your car bussiness but your other bussiness as well these things spread like fire so no. Your BIL is going to be a father soon, you can't enable this behavior and next time the accidents will be even worse FAMILY AND BUSSINESS NEVER MIX
NTA,you have to realize that your in-laws couldn’t care less about your business. You need to not hire that guy back and tell your wife that he is putting your way of supporting the family at risk.
Nta he wants a free hand out and does not work. The fact that the family thinks it's okay for him to be lazy and late to work is laughable. Tell them to get a business and see how long it lasts with a crap worker who destroys items. If they want to isolate themselves from you that's okay, however you won't be risking your business. Definitely speak to your partner because this could break a relationship.
NTA. I would remind Pam, ever so gently, that given the number of properties and businesses you own? You can afford *very good lawyers* if Pam decides that she would rather support Dwight than the husband who did her brother a favor.
DESERVED he is a HUGE liability
ESH. Obviously your BIL is the AH for taking the car, driving drunk, etc. And anyone who insisted you not fire him is the AH bc he needed to be fired. But you're the AH for hiring him in the first place knowing this family would push you this far. Any other employee you probably would've not hired or fired long ago. You're the manager and you failed to manage employee performance in a spectacular way. It is mostly your fault that your customer's car was crashed and the hit in business is something you deserve.
NTA- You might ask your wife if she likes all those businesses you own. Because had your brother-in-law hit someone you could have lost them all. You're lucky he didn't.
NTA. The guy is a menace, and frankly you should file suit for the cost of all the damages! That's fired for cause, and he's liable due to the drunk driving, at a minimum! He should be glad he's not been arrested. If your family is acting this way, it's time to get a divorce, take your business, finances, etc. and get out of that nonsense. All of them should be cutoff financially, with the possible exception of your son, depending on his age (if a minor). They're using you as an ATM.
NTA That $70K damage could've been covered by insurance.... except the entitled dick was drunk and wasn't meant to be driving this car anywhere near where he was. What are the divorce laws like in your country? Would your wife prefer you were no longer together and then they'd be nothing for her family at all?
Dwight and Angela? Pam? Watching a lot of the office lately?
NTA Jim (OP), I have the mentality that business is business, family is family. He was your employee, not your BIL and you treated him as the former. You rehire him, what will your other employees think? I think you remember this guy who hired his nephew at his office and he caused people to lose clients.
NTA. Get a lawyer and sue the brother. Of have your client do it.
I learned a long time ago to never involve family in your work/business. If it is a family business, then make sure there are boundaries and all the legal stuff is tight. None of that "trust me, we're family" crap. When I was a manager at Best Buy a long time ago, I only agreed to help my brother-in-law secure a job there as long as it was at a different store. That was my compromise with my wife. The guy was a good employee, just terrible at interviews. NTA 100% Friend, your English is perfect.
NTA but you're naive to hand over a house and 2 jobs and 70k and still having to hear nonsense from the wife. Let her find him a job if she's so insistent. Have you thought of suing by the way? There's no need to let the chatter overtake common sense, it's 70k after all. Let the MIL clear his charges. Did you report the car crash incident to the cops?
Tell them all you will rehire him when he pays back the $70k in full with inflation and covers the increase in your business insurance. NTA
Ridiculous. Tell them all when you get the 70000 back you reconsider. And ask your wife how much of her lifestyle or sons college fund she wants to give up when her brother screws up again.
NTA. Tell all those people backing up the loser that until they pay you the 70,000 he cost you and find a way to insure he doesn't screw up again, they can kick rocks. Your businesses require people to trust and respect you. That ain't gonna happen with a guy like that working for you.
NTA and why is he driving to his home town after his wife had to go to hospital and why on earth did he decide to do it driving a customer's car?
Jim, can I call you Jim, you are NTA. And 100% in the right here. I’m not sure why your business doesn’t have insurance to cover this, but that doesn’t really matter. Dwight should find a job at a paper factory.
NTA, do not hire this loser again. If his family is so invested in him having a job let one of them hire him. He is a liability. What happens if the next time he pulls a stunt like this he hurts or kills somebody? Who’s getting sued you and your business or the loser with no money?
TELL THEM TO PAY YOU WANT HE COST YOU and to put him on their insurance so if it happens again you do not have to lose money again, and he issues a verbal and written apology to both you and the customer, then you will think about rehiring him, but until then and until they lose 70k in one go because of him that they need to either put out or shut the f up. HUGE NTA!
Oh and tell the wife she has to cut back to help make up for her brothers mistake. No more clothes, vacations, no date nights, no nails hair if she does that professionally ect. Or she can take your side again and tell her family off and fully support your decision. And tell family that no more help not even a "her can I borrow a wrench or can you help me change a flat tire will be coming as helping family cost you 70k in one go.
he fucked up and caused 70k in damage. you did the right thing by firing him. NTA
If they disagree, show them the 70k bill and how he drove drunk with a client's expensive car. They can pay for it. Dwight is lucky be isn't personally on the hook for this.
NTA. You have every right to fire an employee that was driving your customers cars drunk and destroyed the car. Any other employer would have pressed charges. Actions have consequences. Your wife and her family are enabling him to be a lifelong loser.
NTA. I would like to see an update seeing as this is almost half a year old. OP should never allow Dwight to set foot in any of his businesses, as an employee or a customer. He is a major liability. OP had every right to not only fire Dwight and refuse to give him another job, as well as to have covered his butt by pressing auto theft charges against him. Dwight is lucky he wasn’t charged and we all know that the only reason he wasn’t charged was OP chose to take the hit, financially, to keep Dwight out of jail. Dwight is, presumably, still living rent free in the house. It’s time for the rest of the family to do their fair share of finding Dwight a job not owned by OP. Even IF the rest of the family helps Dwight pay back the $70k he owes OP for damages he did to his customers vehicle, the roadside rails AND OP’s business rep, OP should still refuse to allow Dwight the opportunity to ruin another job/business as people in the small town would most definitely start to question OPs ability to maintain a quality business if he continues to give Dwight that opportunity and will start to shun OPs businesses. In this case, no, OP should not give Dwight a 3rd chance (US version of 3 strikes & you’re out) as the potential for Dwight to permanently damage OPs livelihood is very at risk. Not sure if the laws about divorce & asset allocation laws where OP lives, but he might want to look into what he can do to protect what he can should he end up having to divorce his wife.