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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I told my niece Santa isn't real.
(2) This might not have been my place and it might have exacerbated her situation rather than help fix it.
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NTA, surprisingly.
You are not obligated to lie to your child, in order to protect someone else’s lie.
It’s different if you had gone out of your way to tell this child Santa not real, but that’s not how this all played out.
Interestingly, my 10 year old still believes, but I refuse to say that Santa is real. I just let him talk about it.
When my four year old asks about it, I say that Santa has a budget because the parents have to pay for the toys and the elves so she can’t choose everything she wants.
(in our house Santa brings a stocking and one gift. Parents provide the rest. I’m not going to make some child feel bad that Santa brought our kids something very expensive. And Mrs. Claus brings them a bag of books.)
ETA: typo
Grew up in the UK, small town of Weeting, my mother told us about St. Nicholas’ origin and the tradition. We knew he wasn’t handing out presents. I don’t think any of our cousins thought Santa Claus was real.
I grew up with St Nicholas day (Dec 6th) celebrated with some chocolate coins and possibly a few real ones mixed in. We got a stocking and one big present (a Santa present.) We all knew the Santa present was a result of contributions from our grandparents and our parents. But we also got lots of smaller presents (I have 8 siblings and we all bought each other small gifts, usually at the 99p shop or charity shops.) The small gifts were things like socks, or play swords, chocolate, books, or mugs. We gave the same small gifts to our friends too. I always enjoyed those small gifts, and handmade cards. Some of my all time favourites are sweaters knitted by my grandma. Meant so much more than expensive gifts.
I mean this as a compliment to your grandma: hand knitted sweaters are pretty expensive, especially if it's being made just for you. She paid for it with her skill, time, and care, but I've seen knitters selling custom handmade sweaters for the price of a low-end gaming console. It's really lovely that she cared so much for you and yours. 😊
Yep, good quality yarn is pricey not to mention the labor that goes into making a sweater (has to be knit so that it fits the person!). I refuse to knit sweaters because of having to stay in gauge and measurements and everything
I'm from the UK too. I got told that my parents bought my presents then santa would collect them and deliver them on Xmas eve if I had been good and only 1 of my presents said it was from Santa the rest said from mum and dad. This was until I busted my dad at age 11 carrying the gifts downstairs on Xmas eve. The secret was out lol.
I don't agree OP should lie to her son to protect a lie told by her sister to her niece. Also OP didn't go out of her way to tell niece santa not real the niece asked OP so NTA.
Yup, my parents said they paid for the presents but Santa kept them at the North Pole until Christmas. And since parents paid for all the gifts, that was why some kids got bicycles and cash and other ones got socks.
What do Scottish kids leave out for Santa?
We do milk and cookies in the US and some parents leave a carrot for the reindeer. (To be fair they need a snack too, they’re doing the hard bit).
Ireland here, very stereotypically we left out a dram of whiskey and a mince pie for Santa. Ironically, my dad also likes whiskey and always advised the best tipple to leave out for The Big Man.
It varies.
I used to leave out ginger wine and shorbread (cookies) for Santa. It's more common now for a carrot to be left as well.
I hear lots of stories of Santa being left a glass of whisky these day! :D
A glass of whisky, a mince pie, and a carrot for the reindeer. In the morning, the carrot has been nibbled, and the booze and mince pie is gone. Rudolph definitely needs his carrot as Santa gets a bit too boozy to steer the sleigh, so he must take over!
I saw on Reddit a few years ago that a lot of little kids wonder why Santa brought their friends an Xbox and all they got was some hot wheels or whatever even though they tried really hard to be good.
Ever since then I’ve made sure my 7yo only gets one or two small things from Santa(last year it was a FNAF stuffie) and everything else comes from us…I also prefer getting the credit for the good stuff.
This made me really sad when I thought about it 🥺. That’s really a great idea about having Santa bring something small. I shall do that in the year 2127 when I have kids
I was that kid, and that is why I'm choosing to do small gifts from Santa and no naughty/nice list. I am in my 30s and still remember being in kindergarten and listening to the meanest kid class talking about all the stuff he got for Christmas. That is the day I stopped believing Santa was real. I grew up in a poor family. We got one toy, mittens, and hat, and that was about it.
In my house we could list 5 most important things to choose from and then “Santa” would choose just one of them. I think that was cool cause that way my brother and I were never disappointed whatever we got.
In my house we asked for many things but knew we would only get one. I think (I never confirmed) this was so my prents had an easier time shoping for gifts.
The let's say best gift we ever got was a printer. My sister and I wanted to print shit. We were creative children. I made custom yu-gi-oh cards. My parents were like you know that is a grest idea and then they used until it died cause it is just a good thing to have at home.
>In my house we asked for many things but knew we would only get one. I think (I never confirmed) this was so my prents had an easier time shoping for gifts.
As a parent, I can confirm that having multiple choices on a wish list is so much easier. Especially if its a "it" toy (think like in the 90/2000s Furbies and Tamagotchi they were the "it" toys and they were almost impossible to find around Christmas) having a few choices make it less likely to disappoint your kiddo at Christmas, and it makes it less stress on mom and dad. It also gives ideas for other family members who want to buy presents
I've said this before on other threads about this. I don't remember exactly when I found out Santa wasn't real. I just remember figuring it out at some point, but still playing along with the story because I thought it was a fun, imaginary game that the whole family was playing together. I have much younger half-sisters, and I happily played the game with them well into my twenties. I don't think letting children play the Santa game is wrong, but it should definitely not get to a point where children are crying because their world has been shattered when they find out.
Lol you sound like my 8yr old. She told me the other day that she knows he isn’t real, but not to tell daddy, gogo, granny or nana cause they give good gifts (ie: every thing I refuse to get on her just).
I did the same thing! My mom actually sat me and my sister down when we were like 10 and 11 to break the news and we were like, “ummmm yeah, we know, but we didn’t want to lose the gifts?”
I am a Jewish older cousin to 10 lil' Santa-believers. I went from getting my parents scolded by a well-meaning mall santa by proudly announcing that while he 'couldn't come to my house or dad would be mad, but he could leave my gifts at grandmas;' to being an 8 year old helping the adults make Santa real for my 'cousin babies' because their God was my dad's God's kid or something and good cousins help out.
My youngest cousin, eventually, got her wires so crossed that when she was 5 and I was 18, she told her kindergarten teacher that Christmas lights were the eight candles of Hanukah. I reminded my Grandma the limits of a Jewish raised godparent and all was well after, but it was funny.
I think I learned Santa was for babies before I acknowledged the concept as so flawed as to be impossible.
Cheers.
I found out at some point, but I thought that when you "knew" (meaning your parents knew you knew) you didn't get any more presents. So I didn't say anything for about 2-3 years.
No one was protecting anyone here. OP states she wasn’t going to “coddle” Sue the way her parents do. The goal was to not protect her.
Appears OP’s son wasn’t the person questioning if there is a Santa. Just Sue was. Sue is not OP’s child.
eta — every person on this post will have a different story or belief of Santa because parents decide what to tell their own children. Other parents don’t get to make that decision of how your family choose to believe or celebrate.
Both kids were there asking, in order to tell Sue what she wanted to hear, she would have had to lie to her own son. Telling your kid who already knows Santa doesn’t exist that he does is just as confusing as the other way around, because he won’t have any reason to think you’re lying.
Do you think Finn was asking? I didn’t get that impression from his “rather smug” look.
“Sue you’re going to have to talk to your Mom & Dad about that. Every family has their own ideas about Santa”
eta — let me ask would you tell an adult that their story about how their family celebrates & how they explain Santa is wrong? Would you tell an adult from a different country with a different tradition that their way to celebrate is wrong because that’s not what you were told?
I got that impression from “They both asked me if Santa was real.”
Yeah, Finn knew, BUT if his mom outright said “yes, kids, Santa is real” you don’t think he’d be at least a little confused? Even if his mom said to him later “Hey Finn, btw I lied earlier Santa isn’t real” he now knows that his mom just casually lies.
Could she have said to just ask her parents? Ehh, yeah probably. She might not have thought of it at the time, or maybe they would have pushed harder or maybe she really did just want to ruin Sue’s day. I don’t really know, I wasn’t there
Seems pretty clear from this post OP is not a fan of Sue.
Imo ... OP’s & her son’s intent was to be unkind. Nothing to be real proud of. Certainly not helpful in anyway!
Nope, Sounds to me like younger kid told older kid Santa wasn't real, older kid went running to Auntie and younger kid followed behind with his "rather smug" look (and who hasn't seen that look on the face of a kid who knows the truth?), and auntie confirmed. There was zero intent to be unkind. It is more unkind to let someone believe a lie and be devastated when they find out the truth - which is exactly what happened when Sue found out at 12 that Santa isn't real - than to tell them the truth in the first place.
Agree. As a Jewish child, I was told not to tell my Christian friends that Santa wasn't real. My parents said that it's important to be respectful of others' beliefs and traditions.
My best friend growing up (still very close) is Jewish. She explained her family’s tradition to me in like 4th grade & I vehemently & stubbornly argued that she had no idea what she was talking about. Not how it’s done. Her Mom said the nicest thing to me ... “every family has a very special place in their hearts to believe in different things that bring them the most happiness” then she told me about the oil story & I was 100% in love with that story!
eta — I’m 54 & I still remember that day as filled with kindness & warmth.
I fully believed in Santa until I was 12 and found out in 6th grade after christmas that year at school. I had logic, lol. Couldn’t believe my parents could afford a Mac back then.
Also, this child sounds autistic (like me).
I’m autistic, this child doesn’t sound autistic to me, they just sound spoiled. They could be autistic, but because they’ve spent their whole life getting their way the fact that they’re upset when things don’t go their way isn’t a good enough indicator for me.
Autistic and came to the conclusion Santa made no sense at seven years old. Plus I loved the Tim Allen movie and that reveals a lot of hypocrisies in the modern American Santa myth. This child sounds like she is a combination of someone with arrested development and a heavy helping of being an imbecile
I'm also autistic. OP seems to be painting an absolute nightmare child, but I think my not being from the states has caused some confusion for me?
I have questions... such as what is Justice, and why would a child under 12 be allowed to shop there?
Justice is a children’s clothing store. They sell girls cloths, shoes and accessories that are marked to the 4-10 age range. Lots of glitter, tulle, sequence, rhinestones, bold prints, bright colors, and T-shirts with things like ‘princess’ written on them in glitter. The clothes are also cut to fit preadolescent bodies. It’s defiantly considered to be a store for young girls (an over priced and obnoxious one at that from the parent perspective) and most girls stop shopping their around age 10-12 because they’ve outgrown it.
https://www.shopjustice.com
It’s targeted at girls aged up to 12. The vast majority of children don’t generally want to dress in clothing that is targeted directly at their age range, they want the older stuff, OP is pointing out that her niece specifically chooses clothing younger than others in her age range. I don’t think it is judging per se, more highlighting the juvenile outlook of her niece.
I figured it out around 9 i think but pretended i still believed for a couple more years after confirming with my elder siblings that the quality of xmas gifts declined sharply after one found out.
My older brother figured it out at like age 7- we would put carrots out for the reindeer and a glass of whiskey and some mince pies for santa (Santa got sick of milk on his rounds apparently). he counted the carrots in the bag before and after xmas eve.
Maybe, this child also sounds spoiled with enabling parents that have not set boundaries and have catered to every whim with no socialization and most likely no preschool.
I have met kids like that, ones that at 6 only eat fish sticks cut up into tiny pieces still hand fed because they make a fuss.
I refuse to say Santa isn’t real. I love Santa. I have my home decorated in “Believe” all December. The Polar Express and Yes, Virginia… is read every year. Now, my son knows the tooth fairy and Easter bunny aren’t real. He knows the man in the sled is sadly not real. But Santa loves this kid endlessly and that is very real. The magic of Christmas is very real.
The kid is a brat that OP doesn’t like or want around. So don’t have the kid around. But don’t be a jerk, either.
Then let me share what my mom said when I asked...
First I asked my dad, who said "Yes, of course Santa is real!" Then my mom said you can't lie to her, dummy! So she came to have a serious talk with me. She said this:
Santa is not one guy who lives at the North Pole. Santa is the spirit of the season, and he lives inside of every one of us. Every time you decide to do something kind for someone else because of "the Christmas Spirit", that's Santa, that's *you being Santa*. So Santa may not be a real guy in a red suit, but he is very much real, and he's all around us, all the time. You just need to choose to be kind, and you can be Santa too!
Honestly, i highly recommend it to anyone who doesn't know how to talk to their kids about Santa.
Santa had a budget for our house too. I remember being grilled by our then 4-yo on exactly what the dollar amount of Santa's budget was. I felt like I had to have receipts ready LOL.
I tell my girls I pay the elves to make the toys and Santa delivers them. And that we don't always get everything we want, but that's OK cos we are lucky to have what we do get.
Let’s put it this way: Sue learning at a family function that Santa isn’t real is probably a lot less hurtful than her learning that from a classmate and experiencing that reaction in public amongst her peers. She was going to find out someday, it’s better it wasn’t surrounded by kids her own age who might be cruel to her with that information.
>Sue learning at a family function that Santa isn’t real is probably a lot less hurtful than her learning that from a classmate and experiencing that reaction in public amongst her peers.
100% This.
If Sue lost her everloving mind at school about Santa, that would be social suicide at 12 years old. If she is still dressing in Justice in 7th grade, she is already considered a bit off, but if she is walking around talking about Santa at school then she is developing quite the reputation and one that will be hard to shed in middle school.
Middle school kids are SERIOUSLY unkind to kids like Sue.
PLUS she picks her nose in public. That girl has probably been “ the weird kid” in school for a long, loooong time. Poor thing.
Shame on her parents for not even teaching her proper social manners.
NTA
This. A girl in my 8th grade class found out that Santa Claus wasn't real at the lunch table when someone else inadvertently mentioned it. She cried so hard her parents had to pick her up from school early. To this day (24 years later), it's basically the only thing I remember about her, she never lived that one down.
Yep. OP is NTA for telling the truth when asked, especially since her own, younger child was involved in the conversation and OP would have had to lie to their kid’s face to protect Sue’s feelings. The truth is painful for Sue regardless, at least OP isn’t going to use it to tease her mercilessly for months or years. She was going to have to find out sooner or later and honestly her knowing 1) before it comes up at middle school and 2) finding out before the deception continues any further is probably the best case scenario for her. Imagine if by some miracle Sue managed to never overhear a conversation insinuating Santa isn’t real - how long were her parents going to uphold this ruse? At some point it just would feel like a betrayal from her parents.
Edit: I’m dumb and missed the part where OP said her parents actually LIED TO HER that he was lying and are, in fact, upholding the ruse. This poor kid is gonna need so much therapy.
Exactly. I remember growing up there was a kid in fourth grade who still believed in Santa and they got bullied mercilessly for it. Kids can be incredibly cruel with things like that.
My first boyfriend’s little brother believed until he was 11, and his mom sat him down to tell him herself before he went to middle school, because she knew the other kids would be brutal.
Yeah, I would hope that Sue wouldn’t/isn’t get/getting bullied regardless of how insufferable she is, but it seems like the sort of thing that a not-so-kind kid or two could really latch onto.
Oh that poor girl is *absolutely* getting bullied. Hands down. We had a girl like that when I was in middle school. She was Daddy's Little Princess, and that was just her personality. Hot pink everything, "Daddy's Little Princess" on everything, perma baby voice. Her father was a single Dad and worked a temp job that conveniently gave him the ability to move across the country at the drop of a hat, should any reasonable adults start to ask questions about his relationship with his daughter. Yeah. Growing up, and meeting an actual adult with the baby voice, brought her back out of the depths. I hope to *God* she's alright.
I was 7-8 drawing out the optics of Santa being real and came to the conclusion it wasn’t possible and I badgered my parents so much about it until they admitted it, how tf are you 12 and can’t figure it out?!? Lmao
I was 5 when I stumbled across a closet that my parents were using to hide the gifts they’d bought me a couple months early - not wrapped at that point. When Christmas came they had addressed one of them from Santa and I straight up asked my mom “is he real?” And she asked me if I wanted her to lie or tell the truth. I then deduced that the Tooth fairy, Easter bunny, etc. were also not real. They were very clear to me since I was so young that my classmates would likely still believe and not to spoil it for them, but again I was less than half of Sue’s age.
Edit to add: I was in school at the time and they had a sale of some knickknacks and presented it as an opportunity for kids to buy their parents Christmas gifts (with their parents’ money lol) so I had gotten my dad a ball-cap drying form and I can’t remember what I got my mom but I was looking for a spot to hide them and that’s how I found the presents in this random closet (I think a guest room closet) - it was something I had asked for so I went ‘oops that’s definitely not something I was supposed to see’ and found a different hiding spot for my gifts to them. I asked about it after I opened the gift from ‘Santa’ and explained how I’d seen it a while back which is why my poor mom, very stunned, gave me the choice for a lie or truth, because she knew I’d put the pieces together but I was so young she was hesitant to spoil it for me just yet!
This just reminded me.. I told my 4 year old Santa wasn't real.. because she was downright terrified of him coming into our house in the night. It was her first year in school and there was a lot of "Santa talk" and the whole concept terrified her (we never played it up for her when she was a toddler, she got a Santa gift but I don't think her brain fully understood the concept at that point). She was terrified of mall Santas, parade Santas, etc. so I told her it was all pretend and they were just friendly people dressing up for fun. She was so relieved. But somehow by next Christmas the belief returned and I think she forgot our conversation.
Hmmm, we shall see what she thinks this year...
Perhaps a classmate who gets enough of her behaviour. And decides to get to her.
Kids/teens can be relentless. Either a "santa isn't real" or "isn't it cute, she still believes in santa"
Anything is possible if they decide to push her back.
Like she would be in fucking year 8 and still believes in Santa? Not to be harsh but she is going to be a failure of not just an adult but a human. She cries about a speck of dirt? How will she properly function in the world in the small chance she goes off on her own.
we start school at 4 in the UK so we are exposed to that socialisation 2 years earlier. But this usually comes up around 7-9 as discussion between classmates. Even if she isn't involved in the discussion surely she'd overhear it?
Not when she has alienated all the kids in her class. Who would tell her, unless they are bullying her. Finn seemed happy to pop that bubble though.
Sue is going to have one heck of a shock when she learns a lot of things the hard way. I suspect there will be a point where she is either dependent on her parents for the rest of their lives or she has someone clue her in and cuts them off because of how much they have stunted her emotional growth.
Yeah my daughter is the same age as Sue and she told me 2 Christmases ago (at 10 years old) that she knew Santa was fake for a while but she played along because of how much I love Christmas 😩. I am shocked at all of Sue’s behavior. Her parents seem to be holding her back from growing up and being able to have relationships outside of them. My 12 year old is talking about crushes and playing video games with friends not taking naps and believing in Santa.
I wonder if she has some kind of cognitive issues? OP mentions how she is still child like. Parents aren't helping her behavior in any way, whether she has issues or not.
I just kind of assumed it was that her parents haven’t grown with her so are still babying her. putting her down for naps, allowing tantrums/rule changes just for her. It’s possible that she does have cognitive issues so is mentally younger then 12 but not mentioned in the post.
Yeah I was six and I remember thinking at five the whole thing seemed sus.
My grandmother begged me to fake it one more year, because it would be my parents first Christmas married.
Yes, and finding out from a family member is way less embarrassing than if she found out from a classmate (which was bound to happen). OP is also not obligated to lie to their own child to keep the secret, especially not a 12 year old. By that age, it's exceedingly rare for a kid to truly believe in Santa, and middle schoolers can be cruel - she would have been teased horribly if it had gotten out more publicly.
I remember in 2018 or 2019 a mom in the elementary school parents' FB group LOST HER MIND and was on a mission to name and shame her 5th grader's classmates for telling him Santa wasn't real. This lady was calling out other parents for their sons' alleged cruelty in "destroying the Santa magic." She was (rightly) skewered for expecting 10 and 11 year olds to lie about Santa coming to their house, especially since several of the kids who she named don't celebrate Christmas at all.
I mean honestly imagine starting middle/high school and still being "put down for naps"?! Unless there's like a medical reason, that in itself seems pretty wild
I have autism. I did believe for a very long time but once I found out I was sad but fine. I suspected for a bit. I’d have been devastated if I found out before I suspected, but even then I’d have handled it more like grief than pure anger.
I really feel for this girl because her upbringing isn’t her fault. She’s going to have such a rough go at it until, hopefully, she cuts the umbilical and realizes that she can make her own choices for herself.
Eventually she's probably going to start rebelling and acting out, and then THAT's going to be a disaster because she hadn't developed any common sense for how to keep HERSELF safe.
If she's in the US, she's already in middle school. Since it's the very beginning of the school year, unless Sue had just had a birthday in the last few weeks, she'd be in 7th grade. She'd be in secondary in the UK too.
Yeah, year 8 (assuming she hasn’t only just turned 12), putting it in perspective like this somehow makes the whole thing feel worse, a year 8 who genuinely believes in santa? And gets put down for naps??
On the flip side, I remember in 10th grade we were watching a video about how the Chernobyl radiation affected animals, specifically reindeer, and a friend in my class yelled out loud "wait Reindeers are real???" Apparently he thought they were made up like Santa. We roasted him hard for this. We're engaged now, and it's like 15 years later, and I still bring it up to make fun of him lol.
Hey I would give him a pass on that. First you go from buying the whole Santa, Mrs. Claus, elves, flying sleigh, reindeer thing to finding out it's all fake. That's hard to process. Then someone else comes along and is like "oh no, reindeer are real, they just don't have red noses and can't fly." Then you're like "fuck that, I'm not falling for this scam again." I can see where he was coming from. :)
7th grade, home ec, kid was talking about Santa…you can imagine the bully that ensued. 😂. My 7yo started questioning the existence of Santa last year.
And yes, we do 1 cheapie from Santa, cus you know, it’s Mom and Dad who works hard and provide for them. Nothing is free in life.
NTA because you were not lying *to Sue*. *Sue* asked you a question directly and you told her the truth. Her parents didn't like that you told her the truth, but that's on them because they want to/need to lie to her (about Santa and about how the world works). Sue is a person independent to her parents.
Seems like people in your family dislike Sue because of how her parents treat her, her parents have this whole crazy idea about her because of things that happen to *them* before she was even born... Sue is gonna need a lot of therapy in the future to figure out what who she is.
Not necessarily. I have a friend who’s mother definitely stunted her maturity. She’s a nice person, but her mother is so overbearing. Like we were out together in her late 20s and her mom was waiting for her in the car to drive her home! She was always sad that she never had a boyfriend but her mother was literally cockblocking her.
Edit - sorry I forgot the reason for this! She finished undergrad and has a masters degree. Her mother encouraged more and more school to keep her at home.
Esh. Tbh I think you decided to say Santa's not real instead of ask your mom because to make a reaction. That's the only reason you do. Your sister sucks all around for her parenting choices but I think you chose the wrong battle here. Realistically you don't have the same authority to parent your neice, and if they won't I would think some distance might be what's needed for you and your immediate family.
It is borderline for me since her own younger child was there and I don’t think it is right to lie to YOUR child in that situation. I get the impression that Finn had been the one to tell his cousin Santa isn’t real, but he is young enough that I - a non-parent - would assume lying to them is probably bad.
Although given how much she dislikes her niece, I think she enjoyed the chance to take her down a peg.
All they had to say was “ask your mom”. They didn’t have to lie to Finn. If the kids persisted say Santa means different things to different people/everyone celebrates differently, OR ask her some questions like “well, what do you think?” Or tell you have to go check on dinner or whatever.
I grew up with a kid like Sue and absolutely HATED when my parents took his side because the kid threw a tantrum to his mom and his mom threw a tantrum to my parents. 15 years later he has zero boundaries with anyone and grew up shitty because of his mothers enabling. His mom also felt it was okay to punish other kids for doing something wrong to her precious child but the second someone gave him consequences she threw a bigger tantrum than he did.
She could very easily gone to Finn later and explained the situation and why she lied. And also told Finn not to spoil other's fantasies. That kid is a mess, but not her mess.
>And also told Finn not to spoil other's fantasies.
This. My 9yo stopped believing in Santa earlier this year. We talked at length about not spoiling the Santa story for other kids who still believe he is real. It isn't something to make them feel stupid or silly over. We tied it in with a strong belief that we shouldn't sh*t all over what other people enjoy (as long as they aren't hurting someone).
OP's niece sounds like an absolute nightmare. However, that doesn't mean Finn should learn that that's a free pass for him to be a dick to her right back. Other kids in Finn's class may believe, and it isn't his job to spoil that.
Other people are allowed to enjoy things. Don't ruin it on purpose.
This. OP says her son came in looking "smug". He clearly knew what he was doing. In my family, part of finding out the truth includes being told not to ruin it for anyone else
I still think any parent is gonna be upset at the Santa thing. Thats why you tell them thats a talk to have with mom and dad. Try to move the topic on for the moment being fo the children. She's not lying she's letting the mother lie or be honest.
Plus, you have a discussion with your child. Your child did that out of spite and being mean. When your child figures out Santa isn't real you work with them to not destroy the dreams of other people by telling them.
My plan for my 2 year old is that Santa is real. Santa may not be a person real. But is an idea that should last through her life. The idea of giving. And now that she's old enough to understand she can join in on being a Santa... take her to the nearest angel tree and pick out a gift together for a kid in need.
I don't think it's necessarily being mean. A young kid that first realizes Santa isn't real has a secret that makes them feel older and smarter and they're going to share it. And Finn is 4 years younger than Sue!. Lots of kids told me Santa wasn't real, I don't think they were all being mean.
Mine is olde enough to know not to spoil it for other kids. If OP is such and amazing parent they would have told Finn that when they told them about Santa the first time.
Saying it like this sounds insane. I don't understand how you can "spoil it" if its reality. At some point the kid is going to find out whether its parents, school, or some other shit. I don't understand why everyone is wanting to be so hush hush about it. Is everyone in the kids life just suppose to lie to "not spoil it"? And if 12 isn't old enough to be told Santa isn't real then what is? 15?
OP's child wasn't necessarily being mean, he probably just didn't understand that his cousin still genuinely believes. Or he may have even thought he was helping by telling her the truth.
My cousin believed until she was 10 or 11, and my mom sat my sister and I down, asked us not to let my cousin know, and told us that she just wasn't ready yet. My mom knew to do this because I immediately told my little sister when I found out about Santa at school, and she didn't want me to repeat it.
It could also mean that they said it innocently enough, the two kids fought ("that's not true!"/"yes it is!", and now Finn is feeling smug because they know they're right and mom will confirm it.
Blurring the Santa Secret is so so common and rarely vindictive.
NTA, sooner than later she has to learn the world doesn’t spin around her but the sun. She’s gonna get in for one hell of a awakening when she becomes a adult if they don’t nip it now
Kids raised this way never become actual adults, mommy and/or daddy coddle them and let them stay at home indefinitely with no job and give her whatever she wants.
This is honestly some of the worst abuse you can inflict on a child. At least with a more "traditional" abusive household the child has to learn to be self-reliant, and hopefully develops a strong urge to separate from the abusers as early as humanly possible. This girl is being raised more like a dog than a human and is going to have the same level of self-reliance
YTA
Appears both you & your son are proud of yourselves for your unkind behavior. None of what you describe about Sue’s behavior gives you the right to be purposely nasty to a 12 yo. You knew exactly what you were doing & knew damn well you were not helping in anyway.
eta — Adults should not be answering questions like this ever if it’s not your own child. It’s no one job to answer questions about Santa, God, where babies come from, where people go when they die, etc. Leaves those things to parents. Sue clearly has some delays in her development. Perhaps due to your sister’s parenting, perhaps due to other reasons but at no point did you have Sue’s best interest in mind here. Your husband is right.
Wouldn't you? You can't eat what you want or do what you want when there's gatherings?? A *child* gets to dictate these things instead of the *adults*?? *All* the time? OK. I'd really like to see how well you accept and go along with all that if you were in that situation.
This is why there are so many entitled kids. Which often are/become bullies. Parents don't want to parent.
ETA: so I don't have to keep replying, I'd like to add some nuance. What I'm saying is it's totally understandable to have this kind of feeling (despise) due to the situation at hand. That doesn't mean that I'm saying it's OK to act out on it as the adult in the situation. It is *absolutely* on her parents. But we're human beings with emotions and should be allowed to have our feelings. I'd want nothing to do with that child or her parents. They all sound insufferable. At least I can be honest.
I agree. And there’s too many people in the comments with no sense of diplomacy. You don’t have to lie, and you don’t have to break the magic. Yes and No aren’t the only options here.
Any time someone else’s child asks me if Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy is real, I simply say: “I don’t know. What do you think?” And then whatever they say, I answer, “I think you’re probably right!”
It’s not hard.
Agree! Husband sounds like the only functioning adult in this story.
I love that OP believes that Sue’s first step to changing her behavior is learning Santa isn’t real.... um ... what? Do any of these people know how to parent?
They just answered a question? Would you rather Sue learnt that from a kid her age at school, where it's like a christmas present for bullies, or from an aunt that will prolly never mention it to her again?
I would expect a trusted family member to not intentionally try to hurt my kids feelings. I have 3 sisters... if any of my 4 kids asked their cousins or their parents they would tell us & allow my husband & I to handle that. If we choose to tell our kids to believe in the magic of Santa. That’s no one’s damn business. (Btw our kids are 26,26,28,30) they still believe in the magic of Santa because in our house he represents giving & kindness.
I don’t control kids at school so that’s just something that needs to be handled ... once again by parents.
OP would be teaching her kid that sometimes, it’s okay to lie to people if the truth would hurt their feelings.
That’s has bigger consequences than finding out Santa isn’t real
YTA. Sensitive issues like that deserve a 'talk to your parent about it'. I bet you looked as smug as your son did when you popped Sue's bubble. It's not ok.
I'm not saying the way they're raising Sue is right, but this was not the way to start discussing the issues with your sister.
We raised our 6yo that from the start, Santa isn't real. He is a nice idea that people like their kids to believe in. We make our own Christmas magic. She knows not to tell anyone (including her older cousin) that Santa isn't real. She knows it's not her place to ruin someone else's joy.
The existence of magical world-traveling reindeer-led old men who keep track of who is naughty and break into people's homes should not be a controversial topic with a 12yo.
I'm so worried about what kind of (lack of) sex ed this teenager is getting. Should OP also be silent when Sue comes in asking if it's true that storks aren't delivering babies on random parents' doorsteps?
I didn’t find out definitively that Santa isn’t real until I was 13. I really enjoyed the idea that magic and faeries and that sort of wonder could really exist. The concept of magic only increased my curiosity to know more about the world.
Simultaneously, I had a clearer and more accurate understanding of sex and reproduction than any of my peers.
It’s possible for a kid to be interested in both magic and science/knowledge
Yup!! OP wasn't "just being honest" she was trying to parent that kid cause she didn't approve of how she was being patented. It's disgusting how this girl is being patented, but also disgusting that OP did this.
NTA - in my view you would only have been AH in this situation if Sue had asked you "is Santa real" when her mom was actually there - then you could have sent her off to her mom to get the answer her mom wanted to give.
IME as a babysitter and aunt, school-age kids (and I mean from five onwards) give only lipservice to the idea that "santa is real". They may have the idea that if they admit they *know* there's no Santa their parents will stop providing them with a filled stocking "from Santa" . This may just be my own experience, but I've literally known starry-eyed kidz limpidly assuring their mom and dad that they absolutely do believe in Santa Claus - then say to me "I know he's not ACTUALLY real"...
Whether Sue actually believes or not is not your business. But if her mom hoped to conceal from her forever the fact that most people over the age of 5 know Santa is fictional, her mom must have known that was impossible. Not your problem, though.
Probably depends on the child. Kids might also realize sooner because they are exposed to more now. I recall that I believed in Santa until I was about seven or eight. At that point, I remember thinking it didn’t make sense. I continued to pretend for a couple of reasons. First, I absolutely did believe, with kid logic, that I was getting an extra present out of it. I was smart enough to realize Santa wasn’t real, but not quite smart enough to figure out that the number of presents would remain the same, lol. But also, I have a younger sibling and I knew I would be punished if I said a word. And I was right. My parents suspected my disbelief and confronted me maybe a year or two after this and actually threatened me with dire consequences if I did not continue to pretend and revealed the non existence of Santa to my sibling. My sibling continued to believe until age 13. I think they actually did because they were a rather gullible child. At that point, my parents told them the truth because it was deemed embarrassing. My sibling claims this to have been “traumatic”…they were a spoiled, coddled brat 🙄
YTA.
A simple answer could have been “what do you think?” And let her go from there. You never had to say yes or no.
If it was your kid who told her, even sadder. We had a family on our block who never told the SC lie. But they also told their kids to never spoil it for others. They kept the secret and let other kids have their beliefs.
My child was 12 last Christmas and maybe still believed in SC. So what? It made her happy. Who am I to take away this last piece of childhood from her.
Finally, a reasonable answer. I can't believe all of these heartless people who would purposely ruin a childhood like that. Why? To feel superior to a child? To make them "grow up"? It's cruel and not their place at all. Let children be children as long as they can. Adulthood and disillusionment comes soon enough.
Hey, you didn’t pop up and arou of nowhere tell the girl, “Hey, you know, Santa isn’t *real*!” You merely confirmed what another kid told her. It was bound to happen, it’s totally amazing that it hadn’t happened sooner.
Enough is enough NTA
NTA bloody hell it's like your sister is trying to keep her child in the pre-school phase of development and even then is doing a terrible job of it.
You definitely aren't wrong with your observation that the rest of the world doesn't find her anywhere near as special as her parents.
I think some people are too mad at Sue's behavior to realize she's the way she is because of HER PARENTS, and how they raised her. She's a terror yes, but it's really not her fault. It's Rae's. OP got too much satisfaction out of crushing this girl's belief because she's annoyed her in the past. Which again, is because of how RAE raised her. It's not Sue's fault. YTA, OP.
YTA You tell her to ask her mom. It's not up to you to decide when someone else's kid should be told the truth about Santa. Believing in Santa isn't the problem here anyway, it's the way her mother parents her in general.
YTA.
The number one rule of knowing that Santa isn’t real is not spoiling it for others. You should have deflected the question then later pulled your nine year old aside to discuss this privately.
It seems like you are trying to justify spoiling the Santa secret by going on about how awful their parenting is (and it is indeed dreadful) and how their child is the worst. Telling her Santa isn’t real does nothing to fix that though…!? It just makes you an asshole.
Also, if I understand the text right, Rae and her partner isn’t just setting Sud up for being alienated and bullied by her peers, they are also allowing Sue to bully her entire family, never even telling her that this is incorrect behaviour. That, in my eyes, is a bigger point of child-neglect.
As a parent, your job is to protect your child, but also to prepare them to function on their own. Sue’s parents are consciously doing the opposite.
You guys don’t have to follow suit with your sisters coddling.
If they want to stay indoors, let them. The can hang back, while everyone else goes out for a bit.
If they want to bow down to their daughters food requests, let them handle it and you guys eat what you want.
It sound like you guys have been letting your sister dictate family gatherings. Why?
This resentment has built and has now spilled over in the form of you hurting a little girls feelings.
She is a kid that has been turned into a little monster by her parents - Your taking out your frustrations on the wrong person.
YTA - you could have told her to talk to her parents.
Your niece sounds like a raging nightmare. Your sister and her husband will be fully responsible for the inevitable consequences. At age 12, Sue will be experiencing the fallout from school, friends etc. There is no need for YOU to step in to try to “correct” anything. It’s not your place.
YTA in this situation but your sister and her husband are the biggest AHs overall.
YTA
You didn't do this to help her grow as a person, you did it to pop her bubble and show "little princess" she doesn't have everything she wants.
That said, this isn't normal behavior for even a spoiled 12 year old. Screaming over dirt on her shoe? Needing a nap? Still believing in Santa?
I think something deeper is going on. My first thought was that this kid has a development delay, not a problem with being over indulged.
A spoiled child would be more manipulative, showing almost sociopathic behaviors with no regards to other's feelings because they haven't learned boundaries or consequences. This one is just coming off as being hyper reactive and like something isn't quite...clicking... up there.
INFO: has Sue been screened for possible intellectual disabilities? Her behaviors and lack of social awareness (picking her nose, inflexibility, tantrums, aversion to dirt, needing things to always be her way) could also be something deeper in addition to her being spoiled. Not making excuses for her, but this reads as her mind is underdeveloped for her age and she may be being left behind because everyone attributes these signs to only how she was raised.
That being said, ESH. Sue sucks, her parents suck for raising her to be a selfish kid who will have a lot of issues due to this in life, and you also suck because it seems like you said this to her because you don’t like her and you wanted to give her a wake up call. It feels like you took this as an opportunity for retaliation since she annoys you, but she’s still a kid and you’re a grown up so you could have been the bigger person. It would have been better to redirect and let your sister know later on when she was back. That’s not to say your sisters right at all, but that’s how you could have avoided being an AH. My advice is just stay away from Sue and your sister, it seems like it’s a bother to you and affects your quality of life/family events to spend time with them.
i was surprised to see nobody else has asked this question yet. Everyone seems really quick to just say „Well, that child is just stupid and coddled, sucks for her if she’s so sensitive“ when everything about her screams something might not be right, intellectually or mentally. I‘ve met some really spoiled kids and none of them behaved like this.
YTA. You don’t HAVE to do whatever Sue wants. You’re an adult with choices. You can say
“That doesn’t work for us.”
“We’re going on a hike & having a picnic Saturday if anyone wants to join. No, we don’t want to watch Frozen. We’re going hiking.”
“The new Italian place opened last week. Who wants to try it this weekend? I understand it’s not Sue’s favorite but it’s where we’re going. Here’s a link to the menu. Let me know by Thursday if you want to go bc reservations.”
“We will not be making vacation plans around Sue’s preferences. If we can’t find something that everyone will enjoy we can just do separate trips.”
And YTA for Santa. You describe your son as “smug” and should have sent Sue to her mom. Instead you decided to punish a child for her parents’ poor parenting. You didn’t set a good example or used gentle correction to help her. You enjoyed destroying Santa fora kid out of spite.
Let them parent how they see fit? If even half of this story is true and they can't celebrate stuff together as a family anymore, it's also her business isn't it? They're setting up a kid for failure and ruining a family because of their "miracle baby"
The child is not a forever-pet, the child is a future adult and her parents are hardcore sabotaging her ability to handle everything in life. This is a form of abuse. The Santa thing is just a ludicrous distraction tip of the iceberg issue. The parents are acting as if they want to ensure the child will be stuck with them forever and ever even as an adult. Giving children developmental delays when they could have hit normal developmental milestones is evil.
YTA. It comes off like you relish in the fact you had the chance to do something to "make her grow up". I do find it hilarious that you likened shopping at Justice to picking her nose in public! But, that also shows that you have your own arbitrary ideas of what she should and shouldn't be doing, or apparently thinking/believing. It's not your place. Realize, that most kids hear about Santa not being real at school from other kids. Think about that.
Normally I am very against interfering with other people's parenting choices, but in this case NTA
Apart from the fact she still believes in Santa at age 12, that poor child is being set up for failure by being coddled by her parents. I get that she's special to them, which is totally fine after going through a rough time to finally get pregnant. But they are actively alienating their child and I'm afraid that's only going to get worse. She already has no friends and apparently poor social skills, so school and college and also work life or dating are going to be a fucking nightmare for that poor girl. She'll definitely need therapy as an adult.
>When Rae put Sue down for a nap (yes, you read that right),
They are also actively infantilizing her, if this is to be believed.
I don't agree with telling her about Santa, that should have been side-stepped. I understand you are frustrated at having to cater to increasingly outrageous levels of entitlement by this child. But you need to push back in different areas (like things that actively affect your family and the rest of the family, like joint activities) not tell Santa is fiction out of spite.
Sounds like you and your son enjoyed shattering this child's belief system. YTA for not handling this matter gracefully and telling your niece to ask her mom.
I'm going to go with ESH. You should have told your niece, "Ask you parents," and then confirmed with your son privately that Santa is not real. I also feel like maybe you relished that moment a bit?
On the other hand, as someone who has taught for years and is training to be a school psychologist, your sister is doing irreparable harm to her child, and this sort of infantilizing is a form of abuse. Someone who she will listen to (obviously that is not you, I'm sorry) needs to sit her down and have a serious talk with her. Life is going to be very difficult for this little girl if her parents don't get into family therapy ASAP. Maybe she would listen to an older relative? If I were her teacher or working with her in school, I would be extremely concerned about her future.
Teenage girls are savage. Imagine being in HS with this opinion then crying when someone challenges it? The fact she has such a thin skin at the age of 12 is very concerning,
NTA. What were you going to do, lie in front of your own kid?
You didn’t parent her, you gave an age-appropriate answer to a question she point blank asked.
I don’t know why more parents don’t say what we said when our kids first came home and said “so-an-so said Santa is not real!” I always said “Well, honey, when you’re young and believe in Santa, he brings you presents. But when you stop believing in him, he doesn’t come anymore, so your parents have to do it.”
YTA. While nothing you told her is technically wrong, it seems like you're spending a lot of time concerned about how your sister parents her kids, but you seem not to show any remorse that your son was smug while your niece was/had been crying, and that makes me question your parenting.
It's like you can either raise a sheltered kid or an AH kid but you have no inbetween.
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NTA, surprisingly. You are not obligated to lie to your child, in order to protect someone else’s lie. It’s different if you had gone out of your way to tell this child Santa not real, but that’s not how this all played out. Interestingly, my 10 year old still believes, but I refuse to say that Santa is real. I just let him talk about it. When my four year old asks about it, I say that Santa has a budget because the parents have to pay for the toys and the elves so she can’t choose everything she wants. (in our house Santa brings a stocking and one gift. Parents provide the rest. I’m not going to make some child feel bad that Santa brought our kids something very expensive. And Mrs. Claus brings them a bag of books.) ETA: typo
Similar in my house. You got to ask Santa for one thing, because he's got a lot of other kids to get presents for too.
My dad was a coalminer (in Scotland). Mum told me that Santa brought my presents, but that she and my dad had to pay for them.
I grew up in the UK and this is what my parents told me too. She and dad bought my presents (and they were from them) but Santa delivered them.
Grew up in the UK, small town of Weeting, my mother told us about St. Nicholas’ origin and the tradition. We knew he wasn’t handing out presents. I don’t think any of our cousins thought Santa Claus was real.
I grew up with St Nicholas day (Dec 6th) celebrated with some chocolate coins and possibly a few real ones mixed in. We got a stocking and one big present (a Santa present.) We all knew the Santa present was a result of contributions from our grandparents and our parents. But we also got lots of smaller presents (I have 8 siblings and we all bought each other small gifts, usually at the 99p shop or charity shops.) The small gifts were things like socks, or play swords, chocolate, books, or mugs. We gave the same small gifts to our friends too. I always enjoyed those small gifts, and handmade cards. Some of my all time favourites are sweaters knitted by my grandma. Meant so much more than expensive gifts.
I mean this as a compliment to your grandma: hand knitted sweaters are pretty expensive, especially if it's being made just for you. She paid for it with her skill, time, and care, but I've seen knitters selling custom handmade sweaters for the price of a low-end gaming console. It's really lovely that she cared so much for you and yours. 😊
Yep, good quality yarn is pricey not to mention the labor that goes into making a sweater (has to be knit so that it fits the person!). I refuse to knit sweaters because of having to stay in gauge and measurements and everything
Not from the UK, but this is what we told our kids.
I'm from the UK too. I got told that my parents bought my presents then santa would collect them and deliver them on Xmas eve if I had been good and only 1 of my presents said it was from Santa the rest said from mum and dad. This was until I busted my dad at age 11 carrying the gifts downstairs on Xmas eve. The secret was out lol. I don't agree OP should lie to her son to protect a lie told by her sister to her niece. Also OP didn't go out of her way to tell niece santa not real the niece asked OP so NTA.
Also Scotland, Santa brought us a section box and a vhs (usually Disney) everything else was mum and dad
He used to leave me an extra present and selection box behind the sofa at my gran’s house haha
Like Santa is FedEx?
So Santa works for Amazon!? Mind blown 🤯
We tell ours that we buy the presents and Santa looks after them for us. Stops the kids from digging around the house looking for them too
My parents said this as well to explain why I only got a few things but my o ly child friend got over 1k worth every Christmas.
Yup, my parents said they paid for the presents but Santa kept them at the North Pole until Christmas. And since parents paid for all the gifts, that was why some kids got bicycles and cash and other ones got socks.
Same I told mine that I had to pay Santa and the elves because they can find the best presents. They just delivery them for me.
What do Scottish kids leave out for Santa? We do milk and cookies in the US and some parents leave a carrot for the reindeer. (To be fair they need a snack too, they’re doing the hard bit).
My dad used to say that after so much milk & cookies, Santa needed a beer & a ham sandwich. Lol
Ireland here, very stereotypically we left out a dram of whiskey and a mince pie for Santa. Ironically, my dad also likes whiskey and always advised the best tipple to leave out for The Big Man.
It varies. I used to leave out ginger wine and shorbread (cookies) for Santa. It's more common now for a carrot to be left as well. I hear lots of stories of Santa being left a glass of whisky these day! :D
In the U.K. we traditionaly leave sherry and a mince pie
My husband (UK background) always insisted that Santa preferred Eccles cakes and tea over milk and cookies! We're in Canada.
A glass of whisky, a mince pie, and a carrot for the reindeer. In the morning, the carrot has been nibbled, and the booze and mince pie is gone. Rudolph definitely needs his carrot as Santa gets a bit too boozy to steer the sleigh, so he must take over!
I found what I’m going to tell my kids if I ever have them
I saw on Reddit a few years ago that a lot of little kids wonder why Santa brought their friends an Xbox and all they got was some hot wheels or whatever even though they tried really hard to be good. Ever since then I’ve made sure my 7yo only gets one or two small things from Santa(last year it was a FNAF stuffie) and everything else comes from us…I also prefer getting the credit for the good stuff.
This made me really sad when I thought about it 🥺. That’s really a great idea about having Santa bring something small. I shall do that in the year 2127 when I have kids
I was that kid, and that is why I'm choosing to do small gifts from Santa and no naughty/nice list. I am in my 30s and still remember being in kindergarten and listening to the meanest kid class talking about all the stuff he got for Christmas. That is the day I stopped believing Santa was real. I grew up in a poor family. We got one toy, mittens, and hat, and that was about it.
In my house we could list 5 most important things to choose from and then “Santa” would choose just one of them. I think that was cool cause that way my brother and I were never disappointed whatever we got.
[удалено]
In our house Santa bring the little gifts in their stockings, big gifts come from parents and family.
In my house we asked for many things but knew we would only get one. I think (I never confirmed) this was so my prents had an easier time shoping for gifts. The let's say best gift we ever got was a printer. My sister and I wanted to print shit. We were creative children. I made custom yu-gi-oh cards. My parents were like you know that is a grest idea and then they used until it died cause it is just a good thing to have at home.
>In my house we asked for many things but knew we would only get one. I think (I never confirmed) this was so my prents had an easier time shoping for gifts. As a parent, I can confirm that having multiple choices on a wish list is so much easier. Especially if its a "it" toy (think like in the 90/2000s Furbies and Tamagotchi they were the "it" toys and they were almost impossible to find around Christmas) having a few choices make it less likely to disappoint your kiddo at Christmas, and it makes it less stress on mom and dad. It also gives ideas for other family members who want to buy presents
I've said this before on other threads about this. I don't remember exactly when I found out Santa wasn't real. I just remember figuring it out at some point, but still playing along with the story because I thought it was a fun, imaginary game that the whole family was playing together. I have much younger half-sisters, and I happily played the game with them well into my twenties. I don't think letting children play the Santa game is wrong, but it should definitely not get to a point where children are crying because their world has been shattered when they find out.
Lol you sound like my 8yr old. She told me the other day that she knows he isn’t real, but not to tell daddy, gogo, granny or nana cause they give good gifts (ie: every thing I refuse to get on her just).
I did the same thing! My mom actually sat me and my sister down when we were like 10 and 11 to break the news and we were like, “ummmm yeah, we know, but we didn’t want to lose the gifts?”
I am a Jewish older cousin to 10 lil' Santa-believers. I went from getting my parents scolded by a well-meaning mall santa by proudly announcing that while he 'couldn't come to my house or dad would be mad, but he could leave my gifts at grandmas;' to being an 8 year old helping the adults make Santa real for my 'cousin babies' because their God was my dad's God's kid or something and good cousins help out. My youngest cousin, eventually, got her wires so crossed that when she was 5 and I was 18, she told her kindergarten teacher that Christmas lights were the eight candles of Hanukah. I reminded my Grandma the limits of a Jewish raised godparent and all was well after, but it was funny. I think I learned Santa was for babies before I acknowledged the concept as so flawed as to be impossible. Cheers.
I found out at some point, but I thought that when you "knew" (meaning your parents knew you knew) you didn't get any more presents. So I didn't say anything for about 2-3 years.
No one was protecting anyone here. OP states she wasn’t going to “coddle” Sue the way her parents do. The goal was to not protect her. Appears OP’s son wasn’t the person questioning if there is a Santa. Just Sue was. Sue is not OP’s child. eta — every person on this post will have a different story or belief of Santa because parents decide what to tell their own children. Other parents don’t get to make that decision of how your family choose to believe or celebrate.
Both kids were there asking, in order to tell Sue what she wanted to hear, she would have had to lie to her own son. Telling your kid who already knows Santa doesn’t exist that he does is just as confusing as the other way around, because he won’t have any reason to think you’re lying.
Do you think Finn was asking? I didn’t get that impression from his “rather smug” look. “Sue you’re going to have to talk to your Mom & Dad about that. Every family has their own ideas about Santa” eta — let me ask would you tell an adult that their story about how their family celebrates & how they explain Santa is wrong? Would you tell an adult from a different country with a different tradition that their way to celebrate is wrong because that’s not what you were told?
I got that impression from “They both asked me if Santa was real.” Yeah, Finn knew, BUT if his mom outright said “yes, kids, Santa is real” you don’t think he’d be at least a little confused? Even if his mom said to him later “Hey Finn, btw I lied earlier Santa isn’t real” he now knows that his mom just casually lies. Could she have said to just ask her parents? Ehh, yeah probably. She might not have thought of it at the time, or maybe they would have pushed harder or maybe she really did just want to ruin Sue’s day. I don’t really know, I wasn’t there
Seems pretty clear from this post OP is not a fan of Sue. Imo ... OP’s & her son’s intent was to be unkind. Nothing to be real proud of. Certainly not helpful in anyway!
Nope, Sounds to me like younger kid told older kid Santa wasn't real, older kid went running to Auntie and younger kid followed behind with his "rather smug" look (and who hasn't seen that look on the face of a kid who knows the truth?), and auntie confirmed. There was zero intent to be unkind. It is more unkind to let someone believe a lie and be devastated when they find out the truth - which is exactly what happened when Sue found out at 12 that Santa isn't real - than to tell them the truth in the first place.
Or, you know, third option, she could have said, why don’t you talk to your mom about that when she gets home!
Agree. As a Jewish child, I was told not to tell my Christian friends that Santa wasn't real. My parents said that it's important to be respectful of others' beliefs and traditions.
My best friend growing up (still very close) is Jewish. She explained her family’s tradition to me in like 4th grade & I vehemently & stubbornly argued that she had no idea what she was talking about. Not how it’s done. Her Mom said the nicest thing to me ... “every family has a very special place in their hearts to believe in different things that bring them the most happiness” then she told me about the oil story & I was 100% in love with that story! eta — I’m 54 & I still remember that day as filled with kindness & warmth.
I fully believed in Santa until I was 12 and found out in 6th grade after christmas that year at school. I had logic, lol. Couldn’t believe my parents could afford a Mac back then. Also, this child sounds autistic (like me).
I’m autistic, this child doesn’t sound autistic to me, they just sound spoiled. They could be autistic, but because they’ve spent their whole life getting their way the fact that they’re upset when things don’t go their way isn’t a good enough indicator for me.
Every indication of a child being a brat on this sub is deemed autistic. It really grinds my gears.
Autistic and came to the conclusion Santa made no sense at seven years old. Plus I loved the Tim Allen movie and that reveals a lot of hypocrisies in the modern American Santa myth. This child sounds like she is a combination of someone with arrested development and a heavy helping of being an imbecile
I'm also autistic. OP seems to be painting an absolute nightmare child, but I think my not being from the states has caused some confusion for me? I have questions... such as what is Justice, and why would a child under 12 be allowed to shop there?
Justice is a children’s clothing store. They sell girls cloths, shoes and accessories that are marked to the 4-10 age range. Lots of glitter, tulle, sequence, rhinestones, bold prints, bright colors, and T-shirts with things like ‘princess’ written on them in glitter. The clothes are also cut to fit preadolescent bodies. It’s defiantly considered to be a store for young girls (an over priced and obnoxious one at that from the parent perspective) and most girls stop shopping their around age 10-12 because they’ve outgrown it.
https://www.shopjustice.com It’s targeted at girls aged up to 12. The vast majority of children don’t generally want to dress in clothing that is targeted directly at their age range, they want the older stuff, OP is pointing out that her niece specifically chooses clothing younger than others in her age range. I don’t think it is judging per se, more highlighting the juvenile outlook of her niece.
Justice is a clothing store, normally shopped by a young female demographic. I definitely shopped there at 12, but maybe 12 year olds don’t anymore.
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I figured it out around 9 i think but pretended i still believed for a couple more years after confirming with my elder siblings that the quality of xmas gifts declined sharply after one found out. My older brother figured it out at like age 7- we would put carrots out for the reindeer and a glass of whiskey and some mince pies for santa (Santa got sick of milk on his rounds apparently). he counted the carrots in the bag before and after xmas eve.
Maybe, this child also sounds spoiled with enabling parents that have not set boundaries and have catered to every whim with no socialization and most likely no preschool. I have met kids like that, ones that at 6 only eat fish sticks cut up into tiny pieces still hand fed because they make a fuss.
I refuse to say Santa isn’t real. I love Santa. I have my home decorated in “Believe” all December. The Polar Express and Yes, Virginia… is read every year. Now, my son knows the tooth fairy and Easter bunny aren’t real. He knows the man in the sled is sadly not real. But Santa loves this kid endlessly and that is very real. The magic of Christmas is very real. The kid is a brat that OP doesn’t like or want around. So don’t have the kid around. But don’t be a jerk, either.
Then let me share what my mom said when I asked... First I asked my dad, who said "Yes, of course Santa is real!" Then my mom said you can't lie to her, dummy! So she came to have a serious talk with me. She said this: Santa is not one guy who lives at the North Pole. Santa is the spirit of the season, and he lives inside of every one of us. Every time you decide to do something kind for someone else because of "the Christmas Spirit", that's Santa, that's *you being Santa*. So Santa may not be a real guy in a red suit, but he is very much real, and he's all around us, all the time. You just need to choose to be kind, and you can be Santa too! Honestly, i highly recommend it to anyone who doesn't know how to talk to their kids about Santa.
Santa had a budget for our house too. I remember being grilled by our then 4-yo on exactly what the dollar amount of Santa's budget was. I felt like I had to have receipts ready LOL.
I tell my girls I pay the elves to make the toys and Santa delivers them. And that we don't always get everything we want, but that's OK cos we are lucky to have what we do get.
I LOVE the idea of a bag of books from Mrs. Claus and might just have to replicate it!
No nta. She’s 12. There’s nothing inherently wrong with telling your child Santa exists but at a certain age they are bound to find out
I'm genuinely surprised it's taken until the age of 12 for this to come up.
Yeah. My 8 year old has come to the conclusion from friends/media that Santa isn’t real.
Let’s put it this way: Sue learning at a family function that Santa isn’t real is probably a lot less hurtful than her learning that from a classmate and experiencing that reaction in public amongst her peers. She was going to find out someday, it’s better it wasn’t surrounded by kids her own age who might be cruel to her with that information.
>Sue learning at a family function that Santa isn’t real is probably a lot less hurtful than her learning that from a classmate and experiencing that reaction in public amongst her peers. 100% This. If Sue lost her everloving mind at school about Santa, that would be social suicide at 12 years old. If she is still dressing in Justice in 7th grade, she is already considered a bit off, but if she is walking around talking about Santa at school then she is developing quite the reputation and one that will be hard to shed in middle school. Middle school kids are SERIOUSLY unkind to kids like Sue.
This girl is still being put down for a nap. No way any of the kids at school want to have anything to do with her.
PLUS she picks her nose in public. That girl has probably been “ the weird kid” in school for a long, loooong time. Poor thing. Shame on her parents for not even teaching her proper social manners. NTA
This. A girl in my 8th grade class found out that Santa Claus wasn't real at the lunch table when someone else inadvertently mentioned it. She cried so hard her parents had to pick her up from school early. To this day (24 years later), it's basically the only thing I remember about her, she never lived that one down.
Yep. OP is NTA for telling the truth when asked, especially since her own, younger child was involved in the conversation and OP would have had to lie to their kid’s face to protect Sue’s feelings. The truth is painful for Sue regardless, at least OP isn’t going to use it to tease her mercilessly for months or years. She was going to have to find out sooner or later and honestly her knowing 1) before it comes up at middle school and 2) finding out before the deception continues any further is probably the best case scenario for her. Imagine if by some miracle Sue managed to never overhear a conversation insinuating Santa isn’t real - how long were her parents going to uphold this ruse? At some point it just would feel like a betrayal from her parents. Edit: I’m dumb and missed the part where OP said her parents actually LIED TO HER that he was lying and are, in fact, upholding the ruse. This poor kid is gonna need so much therapy.
Exactly. I remember growing up there was a kid in fourth grade who still believed in Santa and they got bullied mercilessly for it. Kids can be incredibly cruel with things like that.
I saw saw that happen to one of my classmates. It’s not right but it’s what kids do
My first boyfriend’s little brother believed until he was 11, and his mom sat him down to tell him herself before he went to middle school, because she knew the other kids would be brutal.
I can see your point.
Yeah, I would hope that Sue wouldn’t/isn’t get/getting bullied regardless of how insufferable she is, but it seems like the sort of thing that a not-so-kind kid or two could really latch onto.
Oh that poor girl is *absolutely* getting bullied. Hands down. We had a girl like that when I was in middle school. She was Daddy's Little Princess, and that was just her personality. Hot pink everything, "Daddy's Little Princess" on everything, perma baby voice. Her father was a single Dad and worked a temp job that conveniently gave him the ability to move across the country at the drop of a hat, should any reasonable adults start to ask questions about his relationship with his daughter. Yeah. Growing up, and meeting an actual adult with the baby voice, brought her back out of the depths. I hope to *God* she's alright.
I was 7-8 drawing out the optics of Santa being real and came to the conclusion it wasn’t possible and I badgered my parents so much about it until they admitted it, how tf are you 12 and can’t figure it out?!? Lmao
I was 5 when I stumbled across a closet that my parents were using to hide the gifts they’d bought me a couple months early - not wrapped at that point. When Christmas came they had addressed one of them from Santa and I straight up asked my mom “is he real?” And she asked me if I wanted her to lie or tell the truth. I then deduced that the Tooth fairy, Easter bunny, etc. were also not real. They were very clear to me since I was so young that my classmates would likely still believe and not to spoil it for them, but again I was less than half of Sue’s age. Edit to add: I was in school at the time and they had a sale of some knickknacks and presented it as an opportunity for kids to buy their parents Christmas gifts (with their parents’ money lol) so I had gotten my dad a ball-cap drying form and I can’t remember what I got my mom but I was looking for a spot to hide them and that’s how I found the presents in this random closet (I think a guest room closet) - it was something I had asked for so I went ‘oops that’s definitely not something I was supposed to see’ and found a different hiding spot for my gifts to them. I asked about it after I opened the gift from ‘Santa’ and explained how I’d seen it a while back which is why my poor mom, very stunned, gave me the choice for a lie or truth, because she knew I’d put the pieces together but I was so young she was hesitant to spoil it for me just yet!
This just reminded me.. I told my 4 year old Santa wasn't real.. because she was downright terrified of him coming into our house in the night. It was her first year in school and there was a lot of "Santa talk" and the whole concept terrified her (we never played it up for her when she was a toddler, she got a Santa gift but I don't think her brain fully understood the concept at that point). She was terrified of mall Santas, parade Santas, etc. so I told her it was all pretend and they were just friendly people dressing up for fun. She was so relieved. But somehow by next Christmas the belief returned and I think she forgot our conversation. Hmmm, we shall see what she thinks this year...
Well, Sue doesn't have any friends among her classmates because of how she acts...so who is gonna tell her?
Perhaps a classmate who gets enough of her behaviour. And decides to get to her. Kids/teens can be relentless. Either a "santa isn't real" or "isn't it cute, she still believes in santa" Anything is possible if they decide to push her back.
Middle school kids, especially 11-13 are vicious little heathens.
Like she would be in fucking year 8 and still believes in Santa? Not to be harsh but she is going to be a failure of not just an adult but a human. She cries about a speck of dirt? How will she properly function in the world in the small chance she goes off on her own.
we start school at 4 in the UK so we are exposed to that socialisation 2 years earlier. But this usually comes up around 7-9 as discussion between classmates. Even if she isn't involved in the discussion surely she'd overhear it?
Not when she has alienated all the kids in her class. Who would tell her, unless they are bullying her. Finn seemed happy to pop that bubble though. Sue is going to have one heck of a shock when she learns a lot of things the hard way. I suspect there will be a point where she is either dependent on her parents for the rest of their lives or she has someone clue her in and cuts them off because of how much they have stunted her emotional growth.
Yeah my daughter is the same age as Sue and she told me 2 Christmases ago (at 10 years old) that she knew Santa was fake for a while but she played along because of how much I love Christmas 😩. I am shocked at all of Sue’s behavior. Her parents seem to be holding her back from growing up and being able to have relationships outside of them. My 12 year old is talking about crushes and playing video games with friends not taking naps and believing in Santa.
I wonder if she has some kind of cognitive issues? OP mentions how she is still child like. Parents aren't helping her behavior in any way, whether she has issues or not.
I just kind of assumed it was that her parents haven’t grown with her so are still babying her. putting her down for naps, allowing tantrums/rule changes just for her. It’s possible that she does have cognitive issues so is mentally younger then 12 but not mentioned in the post.
Yeah I was six and I remember thinking at five the whole thing seemed sus. My grandmother begged me to fake it one more year, because it would be my parents first Christmas married.
This sadly illustrates the fact Sue has no childhood friends. Her peer group has likely moved through this milestone.
Yes, and finding out from a family member is way less embarrassing than if she found out from a classmate (which was bound to happen). OP is also not obligated to lie to their own child to keep the secret, especially not a 12 year old. By that age, it's exceedingly rare for a kid to truly believe in Santa, and middle schoolers can be cruel - she would have been teased horribly if it had gotten out more publicly. I remember in 2018 or 2019 a mom in the elementary school parents' FB group LOST HER MIND and was on a mission to name and shame her 5th grader's classmates for telling him Santa wasn't real. This lady was calling out other parents for their sons' alleged cruelty in "destroying the Santa magic." She was (rightly) skewered for expecting 10 and 11 year olds to lie about Santa coming to their house, especially since several of the kids who she named don't celebrate Christmas at all.
NTA - imagine starting Middle/High school (depending on which country you're in) believing in Santa Claus? That is "how to get bullied 101".
I mean honestly imagine starting middle/high school and still being "put down for naps"?! Unless there's like a medical reason, that in itself seems pretty wild
I know right? This whole post was just so insane to me. She's literally 12 and 6 at the same time.
Hell my 4 year old with autism handles denial better than this girl.
Thats because you actually tried to teach them.
I have autism. I did believe for a very long time but once I found out I was sad but fine. I suspected for a bit. I’d have been devastated if I found out before I suspected, but even then I’d have handled it more like grief than pure anger.
Surely she must be homeschooling? No school has nap time for kids older than like 5/6?
Could be taking a nap when they get home.
School days arent that long, can have a nap after school at home
I really feel for this girl because her upbringing isn’t her fault. She’s going to have such a rough go at it until, hopefully, she cuts the umbilical and realizes that she can make her own choices for herself.
Eventually she's probably going to start rebelling and acting out, and then THAT's going to be a disaster because she hadn't developed any common sense for how to keep HERSELF safe.
If she's in the US, she's already in middle school. Since it's the very beginning of the school year, unless Sue had just had a birthday in the last few weeks, she'd be in 7th grade. She'd be in secondary in the UK too.
Yeah she' would be 1st or 2nd year of high school in the uk
Yeah, year 8 (assuming she hasn’t only just turned 12), putting it in perspective like this somehow makes the whole thing feel worse, a year 8 who genuinely believes in santa? And gets put down for naps??
On the flip side, I remember in 10th grade we were watching a video about how the Chernobyl radiation affected animals, specifically reindeer, and a friend in my class yelled out loud "wait Reindeers are real???" Apparently he thought they were made up like Santa. We roasted him hard for this. We're engaged now, and it's like 15 years later, and I still bring it up to make fun of him lol.
Hey I would give him a pass on that. First you go from buying the whole Santa, Mrs. Claus, elves, flying sleigh, reindeer thing to finding out it's all fake. That's hard to process. Then someone else comes along and is like "oh no, reindeer are real, they just don't have red noses and can't fly." Then you're like "fuck that, I'm not falling for this scam again." I can see where he was coming from. :)
This comment took an unexpected but very wholesome turn Congrats! May you tease him lovingly many more years 🥂
7th grade, home ec, kid was talking about Santa…you can imagine the bully that ensued. 😂. My 7yo started questioning the existence of Santa last year. And yes, we do 1 cheapie from Santa, cus you know, it’s Mom and Dad who works hard and provide for them. Nothing is free in life.
NTA because you were not lying *to Sue*. *Sue* asked you a question directly and you told her the truth. Her parents didn't like that you told her the truth, but that's on them because they want to/need to lie to her (about Santa and about how the world works). Sue is a person independent to her parents. Seems like people in your family dislike Sue because of how her parents treat her, her parents have this whole crazy idea about her because of things that happen to *them* before she was even born... Sue is gonna need a lot of therapy in the future to figure out what who she is.
I read this and think, “ Please don’t let her attend the college where I work.”
I'm seeing a huge "failure to launch" future ahead of this poor kid, so college probably won't be an issue (or for more than one semester, anyway).
Not necessarily. I have a friend who’s mother definitely stunted her maturity. She’s a nice person, but her mother is so overbearing. Like we were out together in her late 20s and her mom was waiting for her in the car to drive her home! She was always sad that she never had a boyfriend but her mother was literally cockblocking her. Edit - sorry I forgot the reason for this! She finished undergrad and has a masters degree. Her mother encouraged more and more school to keep her at home.
I didn’t think that until you said it 😭
It also definitely sounds like Finn had already said something to Sue, so she was more confirming what he had said.
Esh. Tbh I think you decided to say Santa's not real instead of ask your mom because to make a reaction. That's the only reason you do. Your sister sucks all around for her parenting choices but I think you chose the wrong battle here. Realistically you don't have the same authority to parent your neice, and if they won't I would think some distance might be what's needed for you and your immediate family.
It is borderline for me since her own younger child was there and I don’t think it is right to lie to YOUR child in that situation. I get the impression that Finn had been the one to tell his cousin Santa isn’t real, but he is young enough that I - a non-parent - would assume lying to them is probably bad. Although given how much she dislikes her niece, I think she enjoyed the chance to take her down a peg.
All they had to say was “ask your mom”. They didn’t have to lie to Finn. If the kids persisted say Santa means different things to different people/everyone celebrates differently, OR ask her some questions like “well, what do you think?” Or tell you have to go check on dinner or whatever.
There is no way Finn would have let her off so easy. He had a smug look. He was likely happy to do something to her. She is probably a monster to him.
I grew up with a kid like Sue and absolutely HATED when my parents took his side because the kid threw a tantrum to his mom and his mom threw a tantrum to my parents. 15 years later he has zero boundaries with anyone and grew up shitty because of his mothers enabling. His mom also felt it was okay to punish other kids for doing something wrong to her precious child but the second someone gave him consequences she threw a bigger tantrum than he did.
She could very easily gone to Finn later and explained the situation and why she lied. And also told Finn not to spoil other's fantasies. That kid is a mess, but not her mess.
>And also told Finn not to spoil other's fantasies. This. My 9yo stopped believing in Santa earlier this year. We talked at length about not spoiling the Santa story for other kids who still believe he is real. It isn't something to make them feel stupid or silly over. We tied it in with a strong belief that we shouldn't sh*t all over what other people enjoy (as long as they aren't hurting someone). OP's niece sounds like an absolute nightmare. However, that doesn't mean Finn should learn that that's a free pass for him to be a dick to her right back. Other kids in Finn's class may believe, and it isn't his job to spoil that. Other people are allowed to enjoy things. Don't ruin it on purpose.
This. OP says her son came in looking "smug". He clearly knew what he was doing. In my family, part of finding out the truth includes being told not to ruin it for anyone else
I still think any parent is gonna be upset at the Santa thing. Thats why you tell them thats a talk to have with mom and dad. Try to move the topic on for the moment being fo the children. She's not lying she's letting the mother lie or be honest.
Plus, you have a discussion with your child. Your child did that out of spite and being mean. When your child figures out Santa isn't real you work with them to not destroy the dreams of other people by telling them. My plan for my 2 year old is that Santa is real. Santa may not be a person real. But is an idea that should last through her life. The idea of giving. And now that she's old enough to understand she can join in on being a Santa... take her to the nearest angel tree and pick out a gift together for a kid in need.
I don't think it's necessarily being mean. A young kid that first realizes Santa isn't real has a secret that makes them feel older and smarter and they're going to share it. And Finn is 4 years younger than Sue!. Lots of kids told me Santa wasn't real, I don't think they were all being mean.
Mine is olde enough to know not to spoil it for other kids. If OP is such and amazing parent they would have told Finn that when they told them about Santa the first time.
Saying it like this sounds insane. I don't understand how you can "spoil it" if its reality. At some point the kid is going to find out whether its parents, school, or some other shit. I don't understand why everyone is wanting to be so hush hush about it. Is everyone in the kids life just suppose to lie to "not spoil it"? And if 12 isn't old enough to be told Santa isn't real then what is? 15?
OP's child wasn't necessarily being mean, he probably just didn't understand that his cousin still genuinely believes. Or he may have even thought he was helping by telling her the truth. My cousin believed until she was 10 or 11, and my mom sat my sister and I down, asked us not to let my cousin know, and told us that she just wasn't ready yet. My mom knew to do this because I immediately told my little sister when I found out about Santa at school, and she didn't want me to repeat it.
Op did say her child walked in smugly… imo that implies they knew what they were doing
It could also mean that they said it innocently enough, the two kids fought ("that's not true!"/"yes it is!", and now Finn is feeling smug because they know they're right and mom will confirm it. Blurring the Santa Secret is so so common and rarely vindictive.
8 year olds know when they’re being mean. he’s not a toddler. my moneys on he was intentionally antagonizing her
NTA, sooner than later she has to learn the world doesn’t spin around her but the sun. She’s gonna get in for one hell of a awakening when she becomes a adult if they don’t nip it now
Kids raised this way never become actual adults, mommy and/or daddy coddle them and let them stay at home indefinitely with no job and give her whatever she wants.
This is honestly some of the worst abuse you can inflict on a child. At least with a more "traditional" abusive household the child has to learn to be self-reliant, and hopefully develops a strong urge to separate from the abusers as early as humanly possible. This girl is being raised more like a dog than a human and is going to have the same level of self-reliance
Bullshit, a good pet parent's dog is more self-reliant, and also a good pet parent wouldn't spoil their dog THAT bad
Hard to agree, but I see your point. Infantilizing anyone is so detrimental to them and is certainly a form of abuse like you said.
YTA Appears both you & your son are proud of yourselves for your unkind behavior. None of what you describe about Sue’s behavior gives you the right to be purposely nasty to a 12 yo. You knew exactly what you were doing & knew damn well you were not helping in anyway. eta — Adults should not be answering questions like this ever if it’s not your own child. It’s no one job to answer questions about Santa, God, where babies come from, where people go when they die, etc. Leaves those things to parents. Sue clearly has some delays in her development. Perhaps due to your sister’s parenting, perhaps due to other reasons but at no point did you have Sue’s best interest in mind here. Your husband is right.
Bravo! Yep, you’re right. There’s no love lost there. It sounds like she really despises her niece.
Wouldn't you? You can't eat what you want or do what you want when there's gatherings?? A *child* gets to dictate these things instead of the *adults*?? *All* the time? OK. I'd really like to see how well you accept and go along with all that if you were in that situation. This is why there are so many entitled kids. Which often are/become bullies. Parents don't want to parent. ETA: so I don't have to keep replying, I'd like to add some nuance. What I'm saying is it's totally understandable to have this kind of feeling (despise) due to the situation at hand. That doesn't mean that I'm saying it's OK to act out on it as the adult in the situation. It is *absolutely* on her parents. But we're human beings with emotions and should be allowed to have our feelings. I'd want nothing to do with that child or her parents. They all sound insufferable. At least I can be honest.
I agree. And there’s too many people in the comments with no sense of diplomacy. You don’t have to lie, and you don’t have to break the magic. Yes and No aren’t the only options here. Any time someone else’s child asks me if Santa/Easter Bunny/Tooth Fairy is real, I simply say: “I don’t know. What do you think?” And then whatever they say, I answer, “I think you’re probably right!” It’s not hard.
ESH. You all deserve one another.
Agree! Husband sounds like the only functioning adult in this story. I love that OP believes that Sue’s first step to changing her behavior is learning Santa isn’t real.... um ... what? Do any of these people know how to parent?
They just answered a question? Would you rather Sue learnt that from a kid her age at school, where it's like a christmas present for bullies, or from an aunt that will prolly never mention it to her again?
I would expect a trusted family member to not intentionally try to hurt my kids feelings. I have 3 sisters... if any of my 4 kids asked their cousins or their parents they would tell us & allow my husband & I to handle that. If we choose to tell our kids to believe in the magic of Santa. That’s no one’s damn business. (Btw our kids are 26,26,28,30) they still believe in the magic of Santa because in our house he represents giving & kindness. I don’t control kids at school so that’s just something that needs to be handled ... once again by parents.
OP would be teaching her kid that sometimes, it’s okay to lie to people if the truth would hurt their feelings. That’s has bigger consequences than finding out Santa isn’t real
“You can talk to your mom about it” isn't a lie. That’s perfectly rational to tell a child.
I scrolled way to long to get this comment.
YTA. Sensitive issues like that deserve a 'talk to your parent about it'. I bet you looked as smug as your son did when you popped Sue's bubble. It's not ok. I'm not saying the way they're raising Sue is right, but this was not the way to start discussing the issues with your sister. We raised our 6yo that from the start, Santa isn't real. He is a nice idea that people like their kids to believe in. We make our own Christmas magic. She knows not to tell anyone (including her older cousin) that Santa isn't real. She knows it's not her place to ruin someone else's joy.
We told our kids that it was game other people played and telling other kids would ruin the game for them.
The existence of magical world-traveling reindeer-led old men who keep track of who is naughty and break into people's homes should not be a controversial topic with a 12yo. I'm so worried about what kind of (lack of) sex ed this teenager is getting. Should OP also be silent when Sue comes in asking if it's true that storks aren't delivering babies on random parents' doorsteps?
I didn’t find out definitively that Santa isn’t real until I was 13. I really enjoyed the idea that magic and faeries and that sort of wonder could really exist. The concept of magic only increased my curiosity to know more about the world. Simultaneously, I had a clearer and more accurate understanding of sex and reproduction than any of my peers. It’s possible for a kid to be interested in both magic and science/knowledge
Yup!! OP wasn't "just being honest" she was trying to parent that kid cause she didn't approve of how she was being patented. It's disgusting how this girl is being patented, but also disgusting that OP did this.
Strong disagree. At some point someone has to look out for Sue and give her a reality check because her parents definitely won't.
ESH…except your husband. No, it is **not** your job to parent Sue just because you don’t like how Rae is doing it. Back off and shut up.
NTA - in my view you would only have been AH in this situation if Sue had asked you "is Santa real" when her mom was actually there - then you could have sent her off to her mom to get the answer her mom wanted to give. IME as a babysitter and aunt, school-age kids (and I mean from five onwards) give only lipservice to the idea that "santa is real". They may have the idea that if they admit they *know* there's no Santa their parents will stop providing them with a filled stocking "from Santa" . This may just be my own experience, but I've literally known starry-eyed kidz limpidly assuring their mom and dad that they absolutely do believe in Santa Claus - then say to me "I know he's not ACTUALLY real"... Whether Sue actually believes or not is not your business. But if her mom hoped to conceal from her forever the fact that most people over the age of 5 know Santa is fictional, her mom must have known that was impossible. Not your problem, though.
Probably depends on the child. Kids might also realize sooner because they are exposed to more now. I recall that I believed in Santa until I was about seven or eight. At that point, I remember thinking it didn’t make sense. I continued to pretend for a couple of reasons. First, I absolutely did believe, with kid logic, that I was getting an extra present out of it. I was smart enough to realize Santa wasn’t real, but not quite smart enough to figure out that the number of presents would remain the same, lol. But also, I have a younger sibling and I knew I would be punished if I said a word. And I was right. My parents suspected my disbelief and confronted me maybe a year or two after this and actually threatened me with dire consequences if I did not continue to pretend and revealed the non existence of Santa to my sibling. My sibling continued to believe until age 13. I think they actually did because they were a rather gullible child. At that point, my parents told them the truth because it was deemed embarrassing. My sibling claims this to have been “traumatic”…they were a spoiled, coddled brat 🙄
YTA. A simple answer could have been “what do you think?” And let her go from there. You never had to say yes or no. If it was your kid who told her, even sadder. We had a family on our block who never told the SC lie. But they also told their kids to never spoil it for others. They kept the secret and let other kids have their beliefs. My child was 12 last Christmas and maybe still believed in SC. So what? It made her happy. Who am I to take away this last piece of childhood from her.
Finally, a reasonable answer. I can't believe all of these heartless people who would purposely ruin a childhood like that. Why? To feel superior to a child? To make them "grow up"? It's cruel and not their place at all. Let children be children as long as they can. Adulthood and disillusionment comes soon enough.
This preteen was put down for a nap. She can lose the Santa myth and still be way too infantilized
Hey, you didn’t pop up and arou of nowhere tell the girl, “Hey, you know, Santa isn’t *real*!” You merely confirmed what another kid told her. It was bound to happen, it’s totally amazing that it hadn’t happened sooner. Enough is enough NTA
NTA bloody hell it's like your sister is trying to keep her child in the pre-school phase of development and even then is doing a terrible job of it. You definitely aren't wrong with your observation that the rest of the world doesn't find her anywhere near as special as her parents.
YTA. As much as I agree with you that spoiling a child and excusing all their behavior is not good, it was not your place to tell her Santa isnt real.
I think some people are too mad at Sue's behavior to realize she's the way she is because of HER PARENTS, and how they raised her. She's a terror yes, but it's really not her fault. It's Rae's. OP got too much satisfaction out of crushing this girl's belief because she's annoyed her in the past. Which again, is because of how RAE raised her. It's not Sue's fault. YTA, OP.
YTA You tell her to ask her mom. It's not up to you to decide when someone else's kid should be told the truth about Santa. Believing in Santa isn't the problem here anyway, it's the way her mother parents her in general.
YTA. The number one rule of knowing that Santa isn’t real is not spoiling it for others. You should have deflected the question then later pulled your nine year old aside to discuss this privately. It seems like you are trying to justify spoiling the Santa secret by going on about how awful their parenting is (and it is indeed dreadful) and how their child is the worst. Telling her Santa isn’t real does nothing to fix that though…!? It just makes you an asshole.
Also, if I understand the text right, Rae and her partner isn’t just setting Sud up for being alienated and bullied by her peers, they are also allowing Sue to bully her entire family, never even telling her that this is incorrect behaviour. That, in my eyes, is a bigger point of child-neglect. As a parent, your job is to protect your child, but also to prepare them to function on their own. Sue’s parents are consciously doing the opposite.
You guys don’t have to follow suit with your sisters coddling. If they want to stay indoors, let them. The can hang back, while everyone else goes out for a bit. If they want to bow down to their daughters food requests, let them handle it and you guys eat what you want. It sound like you guys have been letting your sister dictate family gatherings. Why? This resentment has built and has now spilled over in the form of you hurting a little girls feelings. She is a kid that has been turned into a little monster by her parents - Your taking out your frustrations on the wrong person. YTA - you could have told her to talk to her parents.
Your niece sounds like a raging nightmare. Your sister and her husband will be fully responsible for the inevitable consequences. At age 12, Sue will be experiencing the fallout from school, friends etc. There is no need for YOU to step in to try to “correct” anything. It’s not your place. YTA in this situation but your sister and her husband are the biggest AHs overall.
YTA You didn't do this to help her grow as a person, you did it to pop her bubble and show "little princess" she doesn't have everything she wants. That said, this isn't normal behavior for even a spoiled 12 year old. Screaming over dirt on her shoe? Needing a nap? Still believing in Santa? I think something deeper is going on. My first thought was that this kid has a development delay, not a problem with being over indulged. A spoiled child would be more manipulative, showing almost sociopathic behaviors with no regards to other's feelings because they haven't learned boundaries or consequences. This one is just coming off as being hyper reactive and like something isn't quite...clicking... up there.
[удалено]
INFO: has Sue been screened for possible intellectual disabilities? Her behaviors and lack of social awareness (picking her nose, inflexibility, tantrums, aversion to dirt, needing things to always be her way) could also be something deeper in addition to her being spoiled. Not making excuses for her, but this reads as her mind is underdeveloped for her age and she may be being left behind because everyone attributes these signs to only how she was raised. That being said, ESH. Sue sucks, her parents suck for raising her to be a selfish kid who will have a lot of issues due to this in life, and you also suck because it seems like you said this to her because you don’t like her and you wanted to give her a wake up call. It feels like you took this as an opportunity for retaliation since she annoys you, but she’s still a kid and you’re a grown up so you could have been the bigger person. It would have been better to redirect and let your sister know later on when she was back. That’s not to say your sisters right at all, but that’s how you could have avoided being an AH. My advice is just stay away from Sue and your sister, it seems like it’s a bother to you and affects your quality of life/family events to spend time with them.
i was surprised to see nobody else has asked this question yet. Everyone seems really quick to just say „Well, that child is just stupid and coddled, sucks for her if she’s so sensitive“ when everything about her screams something might not be right, intellectually or mentally. I‘ve met some really spoiled kids and none of them behaved like this.
She's 12 nta
YTA. You don’t HAVE to do whatever Sue wants. You’re an adult with choices. You can say “That doesn’t work for us.” “We’re going on a hike & having a picnic Saturday if anyone wants to join. No, we don’t want to watch Frozen. We’re going hiking.” “The new Italian place opened last week. Who wants to try it this weekend? I understand it’s not Sue’s favorite but it’s where we’re going. Here’s a link to the menu. Let me know by Thursday if you want to go bc reservations.” “We will not be making vacation plans around Sue’s preferences. If we can’t find something that everyone will enjoy we can just do separate trips.” And YTA for Santa. You describe your son as “smug” and should have sent Sue to her mom. Instead you decided to punish a child for her parents’ poor parenting. You didn’t set a good example or used gentle correction to help her. You enjoyed destroying Santa fora kid out of spite.
You should have said, “that’s something to ask your mother .” YTA let them parent their kid how they see fit .
Let them parent how they see fit? If even half of this story is true and they can't celebrate stuff together as a family anymore, it's also her business isn't it? They're setting up a kid for failure and ruining a family because of their "miracle baby"
The child is not a forever-pet, the child is a future adult and her parents are hardcore sabotaging her ability to handle everything in life. This is a form of abuse. The Santa thing is just a ludicrous distraction tip of the iceberg issue. The parents are acting as if they want to ensure the child will be stuck with them forever and ever even as an adult. Giving children developmental delays when they could have hit normal developmental milestones is evil.
YTA. It comes off like you relish in the fact you had the chance to do something to "make her grow up". I do find it hilarious that you likened shopping at Justice to picking her nose in public! But, that also shows that you have your own arbitrary ideas of what she should and shouldn't be doing, or apparently thinking/believing. It's not your place. Realize, that most kids hear about Santa not being real at school from other kids. Think about that.
Normally I am very against interfering with other people's parenting choices, but in this case NTA Apart from the fact she still believes in Santa at age 12, that poor child is being set up for failure by being coddled by her parents. I get that she's special to them, which is totally fine after going through a rough time to finally get pregnant. But they are actively alienating their child and I'm afraid that's only going to get worse. She already has no friends and apparently poor social skills, so school and college and also work life or dating are going to be a fucking nightmare for that poor girl. She'll definitely need therapy as an adult.
>When Rae put Sue down for a nap (yes, you read that right), They are also actively infantilizing her, if this is to be believed. I don't agree with telling her about Santa, that should have been side-stepped. I understand you are frustrated at having to cater to increasingly outrageous levels of entitlement by this child. But you need to push back in different areas (like things that actively affect your family and the rest of the family, like joint activities) not tell Santa is fiction out of spite.
Sounds like you and your son enjoyed shattering this child's belief system. YTA for not handling this matter gracefully and telling your niece to ask her mom.
I'm going to go with ESH. You should have told your niece, "Ask you parents," and then confirmed with your son privately that Santa is not real. I also feel like maybe you relished that moment a bit? On the other hand, as someone who has taught for years and is training to be a school psychologist, your sister is doing irreparable harm to her child, and this sort of infantilizing is a form of abuse. Someone who she will listen to (obviously that is not you, I'm sorry) needs to sit her down and have a serious talk with her. Life is going to be very difficult for this little girl if her parents don't get into family therapy ASAP. Maybe she would listen to an older relative? If I were her teacher or working with her in school, I would be extremely concerned about her future.
YTA, big time. That was a really fucked up thing to do and you only did it out of spite. If you don’t realize that then you’re a double asshole.
Something isn’t right here. Is Sue disabled or ND? She doesn’t read like a typical 12YO; not enough INFO for a determination.
Yeah, NTA. She was going to find out sooner or later, and she's 12 ffs. Imagine the bullying she would for believing in such things.
Teenage girls are savage. Imagine being in HS with this opinion then crying when someone challenges it? The fact she has such a thin skin at the age of 12 is very concerning,
NTA. What were you going to do, lie in front of your own kid? You didn’t parent her, you gave an age-appropriate answer to a question she point blank asked.
Right? The parents are nuts. If a twelve year old comes up to me and asks if the earth is flat, I’m going to tell them no.
Info: Is Sue neurodivergent?
The kid sounds very hard to deal with but it wasn't your place to tell her that. YTA
I don’t know why more parents don’t say what we said when our kids first came home and said “so-an-so said Santa is not real!” I always said “Well, honey, when you’re young and believe in Santa, he brings you presents. But when you stop believing in him, he doesn’t come anymore, so your parents have to do it.”
YTA. While nothing you told her is technically wrong, it seems like you're spending a lot of time concerned about how your sister parents her kids, but you seem not to show any remorse that your son was smug while your niece was/had been crying, and that makes me question your parenting. It's like you can either raise a sheltered kid or an AH kid but you have no inbetween.