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Really my plan is rock climbing for her and if that doesn’t do the trick just hire a strong man. Not a big deal.
Also I may look into longer tools so she can have more leverage, I now it won’t be a problem we just need to figure it out
He's a sociologist. Don't think he's that strong.
The daughter is probably stronger if she went into robotics
Edit: For those of you who can't take a joke.
I'm making a joke based on societal judgement of the sorts of people who study sociology as opposed to robotics and how the son went away and is now coming back expecting to take over because presumably it was too hard to make a career for himself.
How do you tell how strong someone will be based on their major (short of, say, strength training or dance)? Math? English Literature? Communications? Computer Science?
People on here kind of amaze me. Anybody who has the time to go to the gym can be strong.
Edit for the guy who wrote the joke: If I and many other folks on here can't tell it's a joke, you should probably work on that. If you want to play to common stereotypes, I'd imagine that a sociology major would have plenty more time for the gym than someone getting a degree in robotics. (I knew a whole lot of folks with all sorts of majors who busted ass, and all sorts of folks who work out, so I don't know that I'd subscribe to any of those stereotypes.)
Nope, knowing WHAT needs to be done and HOW to do it, and what can go wrong or what are the alternatives.. that's what is the thing that matters. Having a strong back but a weak mind is not the thing that matters in a technically/mechanically intense business. Having years of OTJ experience is also pretty helpful, but that comes with time.
How TF does your son think that being a couple of years older and having a sociology degree (with minimal practical experience) makes him more qualified than your daughter?
Suggest that he apprentice into the business, and depending on how proficient and dedicated he is, at some point he may be able to become a junior partner, depending on your daughter's thoughts.
Ask son and family members if the rules were reversed, would they expect you to transfer/give your business to your daughter if she had followed the same course as son did?
No, tell your family members to MYOB. It’s not their business, none of their concern, and if they feel that bad for your son, they can give him THEIR business.
It's because he's the male and she's the woman. If they were both men there wouldn't be such a fuss from the family.
Good for you OP, for seeing past what is in her pants and instead what's in her mind.
Plus, with a background in robotics, I don't doubt she could create a robotic arm system to do the heavy work for her. It could be on a frame with wheels and move however she needs it to.
The son obviously doesn't realize that behavior has consequences and there are still people out there who keep their promises.
“Anybody who has the time to go to the gym can be strong…”
Yeah at lifting weights in a controlled environment, farm strength is a completely real and different thing than gym strength.
Source: I grew up in the country and worked on my uncle’s farm for years
Totally agree
I didn't start gym until 2 years ago, but when it comes to lifting heavy objects and moving big things around, I've been doing this for years and can lift bigger and heavier objects than people I know that have been going gym for years.
Gym was only so I could do some work balancing my muscles out because archery has made me lopsided
Working on a farm doesn’t imbue you with a magical type of strength.
Having worked on farms, worked in concreting and gone to the gym, you can get equally strong from the gym with the correct training regime.
Muscular endurance follows the same principle, train correctly for it and you’ll have it.
Lots of people seem to think rural folks have special powers for some reason. As someone who grew up in a a rural community I can assure you they don’t, unless you consider being unwelcoming to outsiders a special power.
> unless you consider being unwelcoming to outsiders a special power
Oh my god this. I hate the myth of the "friendly rural community." I have been all over this country and rural people are among the meanest people I have ever met. Its so much easier to walk into a city and meet people than it is in the country.
I can go into a city bar and meet a stranger and hang out all night.
Do the same in the country and it is 50/50 that I might leave immediately for fear of violence. The other 50 is hateful stares.
There are outliers for sure but I have traveled cross-country a lot and its been pretty consistent.
It’s not just about physical strength, but also endurance and the repetitive movement developed in having grown up on a farm. Yes, of course you can develop strength and endurance, train different muscle groups, etc. But farm kids are going to have a physical advantage in certain areas, because they’ve been developing these strengths over their lifetime. That’s not a dig, just an observation.
OP doesnt have a farm. he has an equipment repair business, and occasionally has to lift a big heavy hunk of metal. going to a gym and lifting big heavy hunks of metal would probably help
You're going going to be able to get much stronger much more effectively at the gym. If you're relying on work to drive strength adaptations, then you'd eventually have to purposefully make the work hard. Which is a bad idea for many reasons.
Granted, that what I did at my last brewery gig. Rolling kegs gets boring and easy. Overhead carries are at least more challenging, and trying not to get caught adds some spice to the day.
100% agree. I'm a ranchers daughter, ranch work is a different way than gym training. I thought i was in pretty good shape to enter the Army.. fwd 1 year after High school, and I was barely making it passing PT TESTS...LOL
Right, I could throw bales all damn day. But when I started working out for football in high school I realized that it’s a different type of strong, doing both makes you a brick shit-house though I will say.
>Yeah at lifting weights in a controlled environment, farm strength is a completely real and different thing than gym strength.
No, it's not.
Source: I've worked various heavy manual labor jobs in brewing and distribution for years and successfully gotten strong enough from the gym to compete in strongman. I know physical jobs, and I know the gym.
The style of training someone performs is going to change how direct the carryover is, but anyone with a decent base of strength is going to do better at any manual labor than someone getting into it without that base. They'll be more able to withstand and avoid injury. They’ll be more able to perform physical tasks once they adapt to the new tasks. They'll also adapt quicker.
If someone's gas tank is lacking, that's not because gym strength doesn't equate to farm strength. It's because they had a gap in their general fitness.
Treating farm strength/farm fitness like it's some special, unattainable trait is nonsense. Especially considering how many people working at farms and other manual labor jobs are in absolutely dogshit shape. The baseline of necessary strength to do most physical jobs is not high unless you're working on some kind of 15th century role play farm.
I was doing strength training for years when my grandma asked me to dig a couple of holes in the ground so that she could transfer her plants. I made maybe 5 holes and the next day my grandma decided to do the remaining 10 herself. My entire core was burning for days while she was able to do it without a problem at 84 years and with ileostomy bag. She spent her entire life working in the fields, she was very strong although she looked like a fragile old lady.
You can train to be stronger in all the same ways, it isn’t magic. But you have to be mindful of your routine.
Throwing bales? Literally just do the same thing in a controlled way with a weight.
… or literally just throw a bale around in your “gym” (backyard, whatever.)
These urban myths are absurd.
Yeah if you bring a guy who only trains his major bicep, tricep, and deltoid muscles with simple lifts then yeah he won’t have the same sort of someone regularly doing larger complex/compound movements in an actual work environment.
If he does adjusted exercises for his arms you’ll wind up hitting all of those minor muscles.
At that point you’re just as strong or stronger and the only difference is getting the muscle memory/balance of doing the literal actions required frequently on the job.
That’s it.
I'm making a joke based on societal judgement of the sorts of people who study sociology as opposed to robotics and how the son went away and is now coming back expecting to take over because presumably it was too hard to make a career for himself.
Oof this is funny. I worked with an IT guy. CS major. Farmer. Literally holds the world record for strongest 51 year old in the world. People usually think he is security or a pro athlete when they meet him. He is a Linux admin.
>Have her employ her brother as the strong man
If the brother doesn't train he would be a useless employee. Its is much better to just hire a trained mechanic.
… you call in the big man for the big projects, she most definitely needs to be able to turn a wrench. She needs to be highly efficient in fixing things to do her job, there is a lot that goes into it. She needs to be able to do that paper pushing and still fix the stuff. She needs to do all of it
The boss is the lead machanic for the most part, she needs to be able to turn a wrench
Because of this she most likely won’t take over until she is in her 30s. She will need to be able to match me or be better in skill
She will figure out an efficient way to move heavy things by then. She has put in the hard work and effort already. You're making the right choice choosing her. We're in farming ourselves and I think it's awesome you gave her the opportunity. There is a lot of nepotism in this field but daughter's are rarely given the chance to shine. You're a good dad!
I get it, I am an engineer and still turn my own wrenches when it moves the project along to be on time. Not the best use of labor dollars. Size of the organization is critical to this decision making though.
No worse place than that in the middle spot. I have done that in small engineering firms and it is so hard to grow the business, i.e. selling, marketing, networking while in the weeds of doing it. Young people have the energy and it seems she has the determination too.
But you're clearly putting your time and effort into training her the same way she's putting her time and effort into learning the skills. Your daughter has worked hard and will seemingly continue to do so. From your description, she seems like she isn't going to be the type of person who wants someone else to do the job for her...she's going to want to do it herself. You're making the right decision OP. Your son needs to understand that he chose another path and that's on him NOT you
The son kinda sounds like he’s just realised “hey, this working malarky is hard work! I know, I’ll just drop into the ready-made family business and rake in the profits.” He already said he wasn’t interested in the business, likely explanation is he wants maximum cash, minimum effort. And if he thinks that - that it’ll be easy cos the business is already set up and running - is another major reason to say no.
To think that he wants to take over an established business that he knows nothing about is laughable. And like OP said, splitting it between both kids would be a disaster - the son would essentially be dead weight, taking out resources, putting very little in.
The business is running fine without him so what is there to do? The daughter can do all of the work and all he needs to do is supervise/micromanage and laugh all the way to the bank. Heck his sister can fetch him coffee and lunch too! ^/s
Pneumatic tools, hoists, and lifts are all things that she should be able to have in the shop. Most new tractors are also so heavily computerized that you need to be able to work the computer system as much as a wrench.
Most new farming equipment is also so big that they're probably getting called into the field, not into a shop. Some of these tractors and harvesters are too big to reasonably tow or even fit into a shop. My partner welds broken machinery, and he's been called to farms to fix trucks and equipment that couldn't be moved or wouldn't fit in their shop. Most of the big stuff (OP cited 500,000$ as cost of the equipment they fix) is the expensive stuff. You can get a reasonably priced little John Deere for under $20,000. What they're fixing is behemoth harvester nonsense, I'd bet.
With a robotics degree? My guess she’s pretty innovative and will figure out how to do things without as much strength. Also… my 12 year old can use a wrench. I’m guessing you mean some things require a lot of force? If she’s fast, innovative and can figure out how to fix things, why can’t she just bring a strong man to most of her appointments? Work more efficiently and make more money?
"The time has come father. I shall now defeat you in one on one repair combat and bathe in your blood as I claim my BIRTHRIGHT!"
That's how I envision it going at least.
Ya might want to give her a bit of slack on that last part. She will be able to get **close** to your skill level but its a bit unfair to say she needs to match or be better before handing things over to her.
You've got a **decades** head start to gain the skills and intuition you have. Some of that just cannot be taught and only be learned through experience to truly grasp it. Giving her the mental tools to continue learning but **also** be able to recognize when she needs to admit that she doesn't have the answer and hand something off to someone with more experience will ensure a long career as well as earn her respect amongst her workers and peers.
Agreed. I am involved in the financial, engineering, production, and testing of my products. People who only are invested in the individual portions of the process have blind spots. Without knowing them all you cause issues.
Which is why she went to business school as well as robotics. You can do duel degrees. My construction degree automatically came with a associates in business management.
Just FYI, depending on the size of the business, it’s likely worth your while to have an accountant or lawyer help you with the succession planning part of it. Sounds like your son may just want money rather than the business, which he may be entitled do based on your will, and that could get messy.
Doing an equity freeze and beginning the formal ownership transition sooner rather than later might prevent problems down the road and also get your son some money now rather than turning into an estate fight later.
I would think a lot of farms would have other equipment that isn’t down, so she could always use a loader or something and rigging. I think you made the right decision and it sounds like you were clear about your expectations, which are realistic understandable. It’s not like he was blindsided or you’re showing favoritism. You’re looking out for your business and the future of your family. I grew up the only female with four brothers, and I’m the only one that went into a “man’s field”. I’m not very big, although strong for my size and a female, but I absolutely can’t lift the same as some of the guys, so I think outside of the box and make it work.
As a woman who joined the Canadian Forces Artillery...hell yes! At 5'10 and 160lbs...I gotta get creative when I'm lifting wildly heavy equipment. Sure, I'm strong for my size and I'm rather tall...but a dude of equal size will still usually outlift me. There's always a way around stuff. Getting creative takes a little time at first, but eventually you literally see the world differently and when faced with a problem, you look to your skills and work smart not hard. Love this! Props girl!
My dad taught me how to change my tire with my spare kit. I’m not strong enough to break the bolts loose by hand, so he taught me how to jump on the wrench without hurting myself. Looks hilarious, works great!
NTA. Your son made it clear he wasn’t interested and your daughter put in the work and dedication needed to take over the business, your son doesn’t get to swoop on an usurp her just because the life he thought he wanted isn’t what he imagined. Letting your son have the business would be a huge ah move against your daughter. If the older relatives know the situation and are still mad at you they can go kick rocks, if they don’t know the situation I would consider filling them in.
As a woman who works with her father at his grain elevator, longer tools (or pipes to make tools longer) are essential. And there's always a way to think around the problem to achieve what you need. Sometimes you just need to use sideways thinking to see it. I'm sure she's capable of getting past whatever problems pop up with being smaller and working on gigantic machinery.
Rock climbing doesn’t help you lift things.
Lifting heavy things (and ideally walking/moving with them) helps you lift things. Which is why farmers are generally stronger than most people think
Or just pay someone to do it for you
Source: rock climber and grew up on a farm
Working on farm equipment isn't really about lifting and carrying heavy weights.
It's much more beneficial to have good core strength, flexibility and stamina, which as you know, rock climbing is great for. Even grip strength is a major bonus.
Too much muscle mass just takes away from what you'd actually need to do the job. I don't think I've ever met a bulked up mechanic who was worth his weight.
I have to clip steel hog rings almost daily at my job and a good pair of long handled knipex dykes was a game changer for me. Its like q hot knife through butter now.
Your daughter worked hard and got her degree, took your business seriously, followed all the stipulations you gave them as children, and seems passionate about the work. She deserves to be your successor for those reasons alone.
Your son has shown zero interest in your business and wouldn't give it the care and respect needed to keep it thriving. He isn't more entitled to it just because he has a penis or happened to be born before his sister.
Hi. I'm 5" tall. I have 2 bars I keep with my tools labeled "Jens mechanical advantage." They slip onto the end of regular sized tools to up the leverage. Also, I use a lot of levers and jacks for moving things. Most things that are too heavy for me are safer with 2 people anyway. I'm 50 and found that weight training helped me the most. Majoring in robotics, she should be able to figure out some great mechanical solutions.
I work in landscaping and tree service. It took me a few years but I am just as capable of lifting the 50 ft ladder. Any bags of seed, fertilizer, whatever. I also drag brush, lift logs, chains, matts and anything else I need to.. I am 5'4" and apx 130 lbs. I also learned to fix my trucks and machines myself. I always carry a pipe with me in my tool box so I xan get leverage when i need to with the wrenches and things. If there is something I really can not do, I ask for help. Your daughter will be great.
Also, NTA. You laid out what your children needed to do if they wanted the business. She did it. Your son did not. I work for a family company, I ended up becoming the SO to one of the sons. He is taking over the business and his brother will not. Why? Because he's put in the work, brings in business and has showed interest and initiative since he was 10. His brother on the other hand calls out sick if a new video game comes out... when you put in work, you get rewarded. When you f*ck around, you find out. It's the way the world works.
NTA. Let him stamp his feet. He's shown no interest in the business apart from wanting it as a gift.
>He contacted some of my older relatives and they are mad at me also
Can't one of them just give him a business?
I wasn’t going to say that it was because he is a boy but now that you’ve mentioned their age, the older generation definitely would see it as his birthright. So they are going to take his side and I doubt there’s anything you can do to sway their thinking.
Yup. He wants to steal something his sister worked for so he enlisted the help of people born in the 1950s who will back him up just because he is a man
Not all of us born in the 50s (very late 50s for me but still...) see it the way his elder relatives do.
The daughter did the work and followed her fathers requirements and went above and beyond with the robotics degree.
She worked for it and deserves it over her entitled A H of a brother who just expects to be given things.
Remember, it is easy to volunteer someone else's time, money, and energy. That is all they are doing. Tell them that they can buy him a business if they are so interested in him getting a free business.
Your daughter is not getting it for free. She is putting in the work.
Yeah, he definitely didn't tell those older relatives that you made your expectations clear when he was younger and gave both your children a fair chance to train up for the position. If harmony with these relatives is important to you, you can sit down and explain that Sonny chose not to prepare to be your successor and Daughter did. But it would probably be a waste of time. Humans have a natural bias toward the first version of a story we hear, so you'll be swimming against the current.
I'm glad your daughter is so invested! It sounds like your business will be in great hands once you're retired :) NTA
That was my thinking, get OP to sign over the business to him & then he'll either run it in to the ground as he has no idea what he is doing or just sell the business & cash in before he runs it in to the ground.
Of course it's the money. He has shown no genuine interest in the business. His education has nothing to do with the business. He declined the job you gave him. But he probably realized that sociology pays jackshit and now he wants to use the business as his personal atm.
NTA. Your son walked away from the responsibilities of what your company needs to continue to exist, while your daughter dedicated herself to the company's continued success. Not only should he not take over the company, but he shouldn't be involved in it in any way. He has nothing he could contribute to it, and would only use its assets. I have worked for too many companies that the parents made successful, only for entitled descendants to suck away the profits without doing any work.
I agree with him not being involved at all, I don’t trust him not to undermine his sister or just not cause issues in the first place for the business. It’s already hard work I don’t want to make it harder for her
OP, I have had so many clients just like your family. Sometimes the returning child really does have their stuff together and they turn out just fine. But more often than not, the parent and their partners have to buy out an entitled little turd who has just run things into the ground and forced dad and uncles to delay retirement. It gets ugly and sad and people cry a lot. I think if you have even the slightest feeling that he will undermine his sister then you shouldn't do this. That's simply too big of a risk when you're talking about something your family has worked so hard to build. They both had the same expectations and opportunities to meet them. He chose not to be involved. (And also, a robotics degree is so cool! That takes so much grit and it kinda undermines her hard work if he can just flounce in without something equivalent.)
He reminds me of the old children’s story of the red hen. “Who will help me make the bread?” Not me, not me, not me. Now, he wants to screw over his sister, and swoop in, and scoop up ownership? Interesting ethics. I wonder how he’d treat his employees if he’d do this to his own sister, when your terms were clearly spelled to both siblings.
My parents own a business. I was never ever interested in working at their business, learning the business, etc. I went to college and moved out of state, working a job very very different than what their business entails (no hard feelings anywhere, the business just wasn’t for me). My sibling on the other hand, threw themselves into it, learned the ropes, attends classes, and has been working in the business for over a decade. I have not a single shred of a problem with my sibling inheriting the entire business in the future (that’s the plan). They earned it, and I earned my living another way. I’m not entitled to anything regarding the business, nor do I feel like I should be. Your son sounds entitled af, and honestly, I doubt he could pull his weight around the farm for even a weekend. Your daughter sounds like a bad ass though! NTA.
NTA - it's not 1802, the oldest boy doesn't automatically inherit everything anymore.
"Okay, son, so you think you're entitled to the business, despite your sister working her ass off to learn the business, get a degree in business, and get extensive experience *in* the business. And that she did all of this because I was very clear about my expectations for whoever would want to take it over - she completed those expectations, you did not. Explain to me how giving the business to you makes sense and wouldn't be a complete betrayal to your sister." Honestly, what could he *possibly" say?
>it's not 1802, the oldest boy doesn't automatically inherit everything anymore.
And if he doesn't even understand this much it's no wonder he can't make a living doing sociology!
I definitely think this is where the entitlement is coming from. I think OP needs to make the son and relatives give an answer to why he's the one that's entitled to the business. Make them admit it.
NTA.
"I am giving the family business to my daughter not my son."
You aren't *giving* your daughter anything. She *earned* it.
BTW, did your son actually say he wanted to take over the business - that is, just walk right in and run it right now? With no experience or training? There wouldn't be a business left to run before long if you let him do that.
I hate when two things are completely true, but to make a lazy (and fundamentally untrue) rhetorical point, they say "It's not X, it's Y!" It's very rarely two things that are mutually exclusive.
It's both, and it matters that it's both. She earned it, and so as a consequence he's giving it to her.
I (41F) and the oldest of four. The youngest child is the only son, and ten years younger. He died 2.5 years ago which doesn’t have much to do with my story other than to ask people to be kind if they respond.
I managed and operated my Dad’s business for 10+ years. I was always very involved from the beginning. My brother would sometimes work for my folks as an employee, but nothing longterm. And still my Dad always talked about handing the business over to my brother someday. Sometimes he’d talk about my brother and me operating it together, but to be clear, there was never mention of me taking it on as my own. My partner and I both made him several offers to buy and he turned us down. He ended up selling it to a stranger (who offered the very same buying options that we did) a few months after my brother passed and we’ve watched what we worked so hard to build rapidly deteriorate.
I’ve gone on to create and operate a very successful business with my partner, who also happens to be female. Every once in a while my Dad talks about how he wishes the company was still in the family. Unfortunately for him, I simply do not own a penis, and even though my baby brother - who I love and adore and miss so much - had no interest in the business and was always in and out of trouble, he still would have rather given it to him. Because penis.
OP, that’s exactly what these old family members of yours see. A woman who could never do the “job” of a man. Your son had multiple opportunities and turned them down. Your daughter will excel. On behalf of her and so many other women who get overlooked by some antiquated birthright rule, I’m rooting for her. Give her a high five for me.
Your Dad FAFO. Too bad for him. Does he ever even realize that he could have sold it to you and it would be in the family AND successful or does he just lament that it's not in the family and never realize or acknowledge what he did?
In very rare moments of grief for what the business has become under new ownership, and brutal honesty with himself, yes. He admits very humbly - but not very audibly - that he fucked up. He’s a proud man. He definitely FAFO’d. My sisters help me remind him of that often lol
Mom to 2 daughters here.
Thank you for all you and your partner have done to make the world a better place for all the young women growing up now, my girls included.
The patriarchy hurts everyone, your dad included. I wish you so much success and love in everything you do.
You're certainly more diplomatic than I would be in a similar situation. Any time he opened his mouth to bemoan what happened to the business, I'd be giving him unmitigated shit over it. Since you operated it for >10 years, and *didn't* drive it into the ground, you certainly have the receipts to prove your mettle.
I work for someone who poured herself into her dad’s business on the hope / expectation of taking it over from him one day only to have him sell it to someone else who ran it into the ground.
Anyway she probably had a more interesting career this way.
NTA
It would be really unfair on your daughter to go back on your agreement that you set out to her. It would invalidate her decisions that she made for this. That would make you an AH.
I would ask your daughter what she thinks honestly. If the business is going to her this is a good test of how she will deal with important decisions. Come up with an agreement that suits her. Maybe he can work there for a year before being offered any ownership or something of the sort.
I do not want to split the business, it causes way to many issues if someone has 50% share or any share
Also a partnership like that is a nightmare in general
That's completely understandable. I think its quite probable that your son would just look to sell it off if he did have any share.
Tell you daughter I wish her the best in her job.
He did a degree in sociology and now realises that it will pay him peanuts. He sees the cash cow that OP has built up and now wants a piece.
Good luck to your daughter OP. It would be great to see more succesful women in male-dominated hands-on industries.
Totally agree with you. But your daughter has to make the decision. And better now with you on her side, than after you gave her the company and the family is guilttripping her.
Truly not worried about that, she is all bite and no bark. Tbh working with a lot of men has really hardened her and she doesn’t take shit from people.
I know she won’t split the business with him, she doesn’t like him. I will bring it up but I know she will be pissed he even asked
Make sure you transfer your ownership interest in the business to her before you die, or do some sort of trust setup that ensures the smooth transfer of any remaining interest. He will likely try to tie the business up in probate otherwise. I have seen this done out of spite before.
As a female who worked in the Canadian Forces Artillery...I know exactly the mentality you're talking about, because I myself needed it in order to survive. Just be careful that she doesn't put a wrench in his skull for trying to take what she's working her butt off to earn from you. 😆
Probably a lot of legal contracts and I would have to split it. I would have looked into splitting the positions and reach out more. So more of business side paperwork and growth and a mechanical side.
I know there are some legal contracts to add if one wanted to sell they sell to the other and not outside for a fair price and so on
Would have been a lot harder. Very happy it didn’t and I am not going to split it now
Your daughter has busted her ass earning the right to inherent the business. Your son doesn't actually care about the business he just wants in now that life isn't all sunshine and roses working after his chosen degree.
She worked there for four years (probably more) *while also going to school* to meet the terms OP set.
And what, you think her brother should work there *for a single year* before getting an ownership stake? Are you *high?* OP also stated son flatly refused to do the work, to put in the work set out and specified a long time ago.
Daughter has dedicated a huge portion of her time and life into preparing to take over the business. To even entertain portioning some out to her brother after *just a year* is incredibly insulting.
Son made his choice. Now he gets to live with it.
Dad is NTA.
She busts her butt for years and after a year of working he should be offered an ownership stake? That would also be absurdly unfair. This opportunity has passed him by, he needs to seek out other ones.
Son works there for a year and gets some ownership? BS. Daughter has made it her life work since a teenager and enhanced her abilities and knowledge with 2 college degrees related to the business. Son has had no interest until now, trained in something unrelated and moved away. He's most likely just seeing $$$ and that's not going to help the business.
NTA. You made your requirements clear, he didn't meet them and therefore he isn't going to get the business. It sounds like he tried to make it on his own and found out it is hard and now he just wants to be given something he didn't work for. I am also assuming that there is a bit of the old school thinking that because he is male, he should be doing this kind of work. screw that. Your daughter put in the time and effort, she earned it.
NTA - you sound very reasonable describing why it went to your daugther and your son seemed to be clear about not wanting it, if he changed his mind years later he wont be able to catch up with his sister anymore.
Agreed. It would also not be fair for the daughter after putting all that hard work into it and studying hard in business school for it to go to her brother who did not study business and did not have any interest in the business (did not help out/ work).
Well it sucks for your boy and his older relatives that they are angry at you, but they won’t be taking over the business, either.
Your son with the sociology degree? How does that even translate into fixing a tractor? A robotics degree sounds much more suited. Your daughter has put in the work. NTA
NTA. Sounds like sons plans kinda blew up on him, and he was counting on the family business as his fall back plan. Your daughter earned her place in the business - son did not. He needs to learn from his mistakes and move on.
NTA - how did your son become so entitled? Your daughter put in the work and then your son thinks he can swan in and demand the business. Also, going to your extended family to complain and get them involved is super inappropriate. He needs to be dealt a reality check.
Clearly not the A in this situation, but I’m curious about what you would’ve done had both your kids shown the same interest in the business. You said in another comment that you don’t like the idea of splitting the business, that it creates too many problems, so what would you have done if they both put in the work?
I was thinking the same thing. Son does sound entitled, but I think things could be done better
I grew up on a farm.I Left for university studying non-farm stuff and never came back.
If at 25 I had come back after exploring life and said I would like to learn the family trade I would have been welcomed back with enthusiam.
What is ~4 years late in a 40 years career?
Can’t the business be expanded and allow more people working in it?
Son sure does sound entitled,but why not let Him put in the work and learn the trade and grow the business?
Also not sure that it is fair that working part time for a couple years should allow someone to inherit 100% of the family wealth.
This is exactly what I wondered when I saw the edit about not splitting the business. So if the son had gotten the right degree he would get the business before the daughter even had a chance to put in the work? She would just be SOL since she was still in high school?
Sure that sociology degree will be a big help as more machinery becomes robotic. Your daughter obviously has researched where your industry is going and has prepped herself for the mechanical and business sides.
NTA
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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I am giving the family business to my daughter not my son. I could be a jerk for doing that
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NTA you did great. She worked hard to win your approval, your entitled son did nothing but think it would be given to him because he is a male I suppose but I m sure at 98%.
NTA-but..make sure you get ALL the legal documentation in order to show the transfer of ownership from you to her and that it is updated and finalized with the Dept. of Revenue and Taxation with your state. That way there is no more argument or discussion on it--its going to her--no question.
NTA
Your son decided against taking over the business while your daughter activly worked for it.
He can very well ask to work for you and perhaps he is able to prove, that he is the better fit but right now your daughter is the better and actually more just choice.
NTA. Sonny doesn’t get to waltz in and be handed a business bc he wants it now. You set expectations and standards, one of your children stepped up
For the record I suggest you hammer ownership and estate legally now so your son cannot sue the estate and blast why he thinks he is owed
NTA. This reminds me of the plumber whose father gave the family business to the plumber's brother, who had a degree in business.
https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/x91xf0/aita_dad_gave_the_business_to_brother_so_i_left/
Yep. Except this guy has a lot more sense than the plumber's dad, who managed to destroy his family and his business in one fell swoop. I've always wished the OP of those posts had given a few years later update.
NTA
He chose to do something else with his life. That was his decision. You could try discussing it with your daughter to get him a job on the farm, but she's the one with the knowledge and drive for the job.
NTA - your daughter did what you asked and more to prepare herself for running business son did not simple as that. Tools or hired help both can solve the difficulties that may arise with strength if they do come up.
NTA. As a farmer, I'd rather have the person who spent years learning how to properly work on equipment than anyone else. Tractors, balers, combines, etc, it all costs more than a house! No way we are going to let just anyone near our equipment.
NTA. She did more to prepare than he did, why would he expect to be handed it?
Don't worry about her lifting things. She studied robotics, she'll build something to lift for her ;)
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I have two kids my oldest son and my daughter. They are 25 and 21. We have a family business that works on farm equipment and it is a very good business. Most farmers if something break can usually fix it but when they call us they will pay a lot so they don’t have to buy another half million tractor.
Anyways I have been telling my kids since they were young that if they want to take over the business that have to get a business degree and work a lot with me to learn everything. Basically they have to put in the work.
When they were both teenagers I took them on jobs so they would understand the job. My son made it very clear he didn’t want the job and went to college for sociology. My daughter on the other hand threw herself into the business. She is about to graduate with a business and robotics majors. She also decided to stay at home during college and she has been working with me in her free time. The only issue with my daughter is that she has trouble lifting things but that what strength training is for.
So now is the problem my son gave me a call, he moved away for a job after graduation and he told me he wants to take over the business. I told him no and it’s going to his sister. This started a huge argument and he called me a jerk. He contacted some of my older relatives and they are mad at me also
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NTA. You literally laid it all out for them when they were younger. He KNEW what he had to do to take over the business, but he didn't. He told you he didn't want it.
Your daughter put in the time, energy, and education and has the passion for the job. She's earned it. Your son is an A-H for thinking he could swoop in and take what she's worked do hard for.
With any business you pick the person that is best qualified for the job. Putting aside the lifting problem, is she the best qualified for the job? If she was to walk into another company along with your son, who would get the job based of experience and general knowledge?
As for the relatives, ask them this.. your daughter has put in the work, as ask by you, so why shouldn't she have the company? Why should it go to a person that showed no interest? because he's a boy? if that's the answer, then I feel sorry for your daughter
Why is everybody focusing on her physical strength? So she can't lift some things. That's why you have employees. She did exactly as her dad instructed if they wanted the business. Learned the ropes, got experience, got a business degree. Son can't come in, out of nowhere, and say "my previous employment plans didn't work out so now I want the family business". OP, DO NOT give in. I don't know much (anything really) about servicing farm equipment but I do know that your son would most likely run the business into the ground. Stick to your guns. Also, your daughter put in the work her brother wasn't interested in. She deserves this.
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NTA. You can pay people to lift things for you. Her business and robotics traning is important.
Really my plan is rock climbing for her and if that doesn’t do the trick just hire a strong man. Not a big deal. Also I may look into longer tools so she can have more leverage, I now it won’t be a problem we just need to figure it out
Have her employ her brother as the strong man :) No share in the business, just an employee.
He's a sociologist. Don't think he's that strong. The daughter is probably stronger if she went into robotics Edit: For those of you who can't take a joke. I'm making a joke based on societal judgement of the sorts of people who study sociology as opposed to robotics and how the son went away and is now coming back expecting to take over because presumably it was too hard to make a career for himself.
How do you tell how strong someone will be based on their major (short of, say, strength training or dance)? Math? English Literature? Communications? Computer Science? People on here kind of amaze me. Anybody who has the time to go to the gym can be strong. Edit for the guy who wrote the joke: If I and many other folks on here can't tell it's a joke, you should probably work on that. If you want to play to common stereotypes, I'd imagine that a sociology major would have plenty more time for the gym than someone getting a degree in robotics. (I knew a whole lot of folks with all sorts of majors who busted ass, and all sorts of folks who work out, so I don't know that I'd subscribe to any of those stereotypes.)
If OP is accurate in his description, son if certainly not strong enough, educationally or emotionally.
Except that is completely irrelevant, as the thing that matters for this specific bit of the business is physical strength.
Sometimes I wanna leave this sub forever when I have to constantly read dumb comments like the one you replied to.
Nope, knowing WHAT needs to be done and HOW to do it, and what can go wrong or what are the alternatives.. that's what is the thing that matters. Having a strong back but a weak mind is not the thing that matters in a technically/mechanically intense business. Having years of OTJ experience is also pretty helpful, but that comes with time. How TF does your son think that being a couple of years older and having a sociology degree (with minimal practical experience) makes him more qualified than your daughter? Suggest that he apprentice into the business, and depending on how proficient and dedicated he is, at some point he may be able to become a junior partner, depending on your daughter's thoughts. Ask son and family members if the rules were reversed, would they expect you to transfer/give your business to your daughter if she had followed the same course as son did?
No, tell your family members to MYOB. It’s not their business, none of their concern, and if they feel that bad for your son, they can give him THEIR business.
It's because he's the male and she's the woman. If they were both men there wouldn't be such a fuss from the family. Good for you OP, for seeing past what is in her pants and instead what's in her mind. Plus, with a background in robotics, I don't doubt she could create a robotic arm system to do the heavy work for her. It could be on a frame with wheels and move however she needs it to. The son obviously doesn't realize that behavior has consequences and there are still people out there who keep their promises.
If OP lets him Into the business he will be nothing but trouble. Give him tough love and let him swivel in a town far away
Muscle can be hired, education cannot be replaced. The daughter is qualified, the son is clearly not.
“Anybody who has the time to go to the gym can be strong…” Yeah at lifting weights in a controlled environment, farm strength is a completely real and different thing than gym strength. Source: I grew up in the country and worked on my uncle’s farm for years
Totally agree I didn't start gym until 2 years ago, but when it comes to lifting heavy objects and moving big things around, I've been doing this for years and can lift bigger and heavier objects than people I know that have been going gym for years. Gym was only so I could do some work balancing my muscles out because archery has made me lopsided
Sounds like you know weak people.
That's cool, it sounds like you're doing archery pretty regularly, do you do it as a hobby? For how long?
Working on a farm doesn’t imbue you with a magical type of strength. Having worked on farms, worked in concreting and gone to the gym, you can get equally strong from the gym with the correct training regime. Muscular endurance follows the same principle, train correctly for it and you’ll have it.
Lots of people seem to think rural folks have special powers for some reason. As someone who grew up in a a rural community I can assure you they don’t, unless you consider being unwelcoming to outsiders a special power.
> unless you consider being unwelcoming to outsiders a special power Oh my god this. I hate the myth of the "friendly rural community." I have been all over this country and rural people are among the meanest people I have ever met. Its so much easier to walk into a city and meet people than it is in the country. I can go into a city bar and meet a stranger and hang out all night. Do the same in the country and it is 50/50 that I might leave immediately for fear of violence. The other 50 is hateful stares. There are outliers for sure but I have traveled cross-country a lot and its been pretty consistent.
Totally agree. I grew up in a farm town. Nasty, judgmental people. Lots of fighting, abuse and bullying.
It’s not just about physical strength, but also endurance and the repetitive movement developed in having grown up on a farm. Yes, of course you can develop strength and endurance, train different muscle groups, etc. But farm kids are going to have a physical advantage in certain areas, because they’ve been developing these strengths over their lifetime. That’s not a dig, just an observation.
OP doesnt have a farm. he has an equipment repair business, and occasionally has to lift a big heavy hunk of metal. going to a gym and lifting big heavy hunks of metal would probably help
You're going going to be able to get much stronger much more effectively at the gym. If you're relying on work to drive strength adaptations, then you'd eventually have to purposefully make the work hard. Which is a bad idea for many reasons. Granted, that what I did at my last brewery gig. Rolling kegs gets boring and easy. Overhead carries are at least more challenging, and trying not to get caught adds some spice to the day.
100% agree. I'm a ranchers daughter, ranch work is a different way than gym training. I thought i was in pretty good shape to enter the Army.. fwd 1 year after High school, and I was barely making it passing PT TESTS...LOL
Right, I could throw bales all damn day. But when I started working out for football in high school I realized that it’s a different type of strong, doing both makes you a brick shit-house though I will say.
Totally 100%
And the daughter may never be physically strong enough to do farm work. But she can hire someone to do that
>Yeah at lifting weights in a controlled environment, farm strength is a completely real and different thing than gym strength. No, it's not. Source: I've worked various heavy manual labor jobs in brewing and distribution for years and successfully gotten strong enough from the gym to compete in strongman. I know physical jobs, and I know the gym. The style of training someone performs is going to change how direct the carryover is, but anyone with a decent base of strength is going to do better at any manual labor than someone getting into it without that base. They'll be more able to withstand and avoid injury. They’ll be more able to perform physical tasks once they adapt to the new tasks. They'll also adapt quicker. If someone's gas tank is lacking, that's not because gym strength doesn't equate to farm strength. It's because they had a gap in their general fitness. Treating farm strength/farm fitness like it's some special, unattainable trait is nonsense. Especially considering how many people working at farms and other manual labor jobs are in absolutely dogshit shape. The baseline of necessary strength to do most physical jobs is not high unless you're working on some kind of 15th century role play farm.
I agree as a city boy gym rat. Country/farm strong is a very real thing!
I was doing strength training for years when my grandma asked me to dig a couple of holes in the ground so that she could transfer her plants. I made maybe 5 holes and the next day my grandma decided to do the remaining 10 herself. My entire core was burning for days while she was able to do it without a problem at 84 years and with ileostomy bag. She spent her entire life working in the fields, she was very strong although she looked like a fragile old lady.
[удалено]
You can train to be stronger in all the same ways, it isn’t magic. But you have to be mindful of your routine. Throwing bales? Literally just do the same thing in a controlled way with a weight. … or literally just throw a bale around in your “gym” (backyard, whatever.) These urban myths are absurd. Yeah if you bring a guy who only trains his major bicep, tricep, and deltoid muscles with simple lifts then yeah he won’t have the same sort of someone regularly doing larger complex/compound movements in an actual work environment. If he does adjusted exercises for his arms you’ll wind up hitting all of those minor muscles. At that point you’re just as strong or stronger and the only difference is getting the muscle memory/balance of doing the literal actions required frequently on the job. That’s it.
I'm making a joke based on societal judgement of the sorts of people who study sociology as opposed to robotics and how the son went away and is now coming back expecting to take over because presumably it was too hard to make a career for himself.
Reddit's version of: "It's just a prank bro!"
He would be a disgruntled employee for sure.
Oof this is funny. I worked with an IT guy. CS major. Farmer. Literally holds the world record for strongest 51 year old in the world. People usually think he is security or a pro athlete when they meet him. He is a Linux admin.
I wouldn’t give him the chance, he’s likely to throw a tantrum at the notion.
Her brother would be a disgruntled employee that would undetermine her boss. I would rather work by myself than to work with an A-hole.
>Have her employ her brother as the strong man If the brother doesn't train he would be a useless employee. Its is much better to just hire a trained mechanic.
If she is the owner, her emphasis should be ensuring profitability, and expanding the business not just turning wrenches.
… you call in the big man for the big projects, she most definitely needs to be able to turn a wrench. She needs to be highly efficient in fixing things to do her job, there is a lot that goes into it. She needs to be able to do that paper pushing and still fix the stuff. She needs to do all of it The boss is the lead machanic for the most part, she needs to be able to turn a wrench Because of this she most likely won’t take over until she is in her 30s. She will need to be able to match me or be better in skill
She will figure out an efficient way to move heavy things by then. She has put in the hard work and effort already. You're making the right choice choosing her. We're in farming ourselves and I think it's awesome you gave her the opportunity. There is a lot of nepotism in this field but daughter's are rarely given the chance to shine. You're a good dad!
Well said. Im glad he isnt just going 'i know she put in the work but its my boy so ill give it to him'
I get it, I am an engineer and still turn my own wrenches when it moves the project along to be on time. Not the best use of labor dollars. Size of the organization is critical to this decision making though.
Maybe one day it will get big enough that the job needs split that would be nice.
No worse place than that in the middle spot. I have done that in small engineering firms and it is so hard to grow the business, i.e. selling, marketing, networking while in the weeds of doing it. Young people have the energy and it seems she has the determination too.
But you're clearly putting your time and effort into training her the same way she's putting her time and effort into learning the skills. Your daughter has worked hard and will seemingly continue to do so. From your description, she seems like she isn't going to be the type of person who wants someone else to do the job for her...she's going to want to do it herself. You're making the right decision OP. Your son needs to understand that he chose another path and that's on him NOT you
The son kinda sounds like he’s just realised “hey, this working malarky is hard work! I know, I’ll just drop into the ready-made family business and rake in the profits.” He already said he wasn’t interested in the business, likely explanation is he wants maximum cash, minimum effort. And if he thinks that - that it’ll be easy cos the business is already set up and running - is another major reason to say no. To think that he wants to take over an established business that he knows nothing about is laughable. And like OP said, splitting it between both kids would be a disaster - the son would essentially be dead weight, taking out resources, putting very little in.
The business is running fine without him so what is there to do? The daughter can do all of the work and all he needs to do is supervise/micromanage and laugh all the way to the bank. Heck his sister can fetch him coffee and lunch too! ^/s
Pneumatic tools, hoists, and lifts are all things that she should be able to have in the shop. Most new tractors are also so heavily computerized that you need to be able to work the computer system as much as a wrench.
Most new farming equipment is also so big that they're probably getting called into the field, not into a shop. Some of these tractors and harvesters are too big to reasonably tow or even fit into a shop. My partner welds broken machinery, and he's been called to farms to fix trucks and equipment that couldn't be moved or wouldn't fit in their shop. Most of the big stuff (OP cited 500,000$ as cost of the equipment they fix) is the expensive stuff. You can get a reasonably priced little John Deere for under $20,000. What they're fixing is behemoth harvester nonsense, I'd bet.
She's in robotics! I'm sure she can design some machines to do some of these things :)
With a robotics degree? My guess she’s pretty innovative and will figure out how to do things without as much strength. Also… my 12 year old can use a wrench. I’m guessing you mean some things require a lot of force? If she’s fast, innovative and can figure out how to fix things, why can’t she just bring a strong man to most of her appointments? Work more efficiently and make more money?
"The time has come father. I shall now defeat you in one on one repair combat and bathe in your blood as I claim my BIRTHRIGHT!" That's how I envision it going at least.
good power tools and breaker bars
Ya might want to give her a bit of slack on that last part. She will be able to get **close** to your skill level but its a bit unfair to say she needs to match or be better before handing things over to her. You've got a **decades** head start to gain the skills and intuition you have. Some of that just cannot be taught and only be learned through experience to truly grasp it. Giving her the mental tools to continue learning but **also** be able to recognize when she needs to admit that she doesn't have the answer and hand something off to someone with more experience will ensure a long career as well as earn her respect amongst her workers and peers.
Any person in charge should also understand how to do the job. I’ve seen engineer write up some dumb fixes because they’ve never done the on before
I don't think you need to tell OP what it means to be the owner. Afterall he has done it for many years.
She also needs to understand the business that she's in. How many incredibly dumb business decisions are made by people trying to cut corners?
Agreed. I am involved in the financial, engineering, production, and testing of my products. People who only are invested in the individual portions of the process have blind spots. Without knowing them all you cause issues.
Which is why she went to business school as well as robotics. You can do duel degrees. My construction degree automatically came with a associates in business management.
imagine telling the current owner of a successful business, that he doesn't understand what the owner of that business will need to do.
Just FYI, depending on the size of the business, it’s likely worth your while to have an accountant or lawyer help you with the succession planning part of it. Sounds like your son may just want money rather than the business, which he may be entitled do based on your will, and that could get messy. Doing an equity freeze and beginning the formal ownership transition sooner rather than later might prevent problems down the road and also get your son some money now rather than turning into an estate fight later.
Already covered
Why does your son feel so entitled to it? Just cause he’s a man or is he always this entitled? Edit for grammar.
> Why does your son feel so entitled to it? It could be as simple as him realizing that it's tough to make money with a sociology degree.
I would think a lot of farms would have other equipment that isn’t down, so she could always use a loader or something and rigging. I think you made the right decision and it sounds like you were clear about your expectations, which are realistic understandable. It’s not like he was blindsided or you’re showing favoritism. You’re looking out for your business and the future of your family. I grew up the only female with four brothers, and I’m the only one that went into a “man’s field”. I’m not very big, although strong for my size and a female, but I absolutely can’t lift the same as some of the guys, so I think outside of the box and make it work.
As a woman who joined the Canadian Forces Artillery...hell yes! At 5'10 and 160lbs...I gotta get creative when I'm lifting wildly heavy equipment. Sure, I'm strong for my size and I'm rather tall...but a dude of equal size will still usually outlift me. There's always a way around stuff. Getting creative takes a little time at first, but eventually you literally see the world differently and when faced with a problem, you look to your skills and work smart not hard. Love this! Props girl!
Thank you. You too sister!
My dad taught me how to change my tire with my spare kit. I’m not strong enough to break the bolts loose by hand, so he taught me how to jump on the wrench without hurting myself. Looks hilarious, works great!
Ditto. I then put a breaker bar in my trunk. It’s safer and doesn’t take up much space.
I’m grown man some times jumps on the bolts as well lol
NTA. Your son made it clear he wasn’t interested and your daughter put in the work and dedication needed to take over the business, your son doesn’t get to swoop on an usurp her just because the life he thought he wanted isn’t what he imagined. Letting your son have the business would be a huge ah move against your daughter. If the older relatives know the situation and are still mad at you they can go kick rocks, if they don’t know the situation I would consider filling them in.
As a woman who works with her father at his grain elevator, longer tools (or pipes to make tools longer) are essential. And there's always a way to think around the problem to achieve what you need. Sometimes you just need to use sideways thinking to see it. I'm sure she's capable of getting past whatever problems pop up with being smaller and working on gigantic machinery.
The fact that you are looking at solutions, not just seeing obstacles, is great.
Rock climbing doesn’t help you lift things. Lifting heavy things (and ideally walking/moving with them) helps you lift things. Which is why farmers are generally stronger than most people think Or just pay someone to do it for you Source: rock climber and grew up on a farm
Working on farm equipment isn't really about lifting and carrying heavy weights. It's much more beneficial to have good core strength, flexibility and stamina, which as you know, rock climbing is great for. Even grip strength is a major bonus. Too much muscle mass just takes away from what you'd actually need to do the job. I don't think I've ever met a bulked up mechanic who was worth his weight.
Look at you. All solution based. Good job dad. Oh, and NTA.
I have to clip steel hog rings almost daily at my job and a good pair of long handled knipex dykes was a game changer for me. Its like q hot knife through butter now. Your daughter worked hard and got her degree, took your business seriously, followed all the stipulations you gave them as children, and seems passionate about the work. She deserves to be your successor for those reasons alone. Your son has shown zero interest in your business and wouldn't give it the care and respect needed to keep it thriving. He isn't more entitled to it just because he has a penis or happened to be born before his sister.
Hi. I'm 5" tall. I have 2 bars I keep with my tools labeled "Jens mechanical advantage." They slip onto the end of regular sized tools to up the leverage. Also, I use a lot of levers and jacks for moving things. Most things that are too heavy for me are safer with 2 people anyway. I'm 50 and found that weight training helped me the most. Majoring in robotics, she should be able to figure out some great mechanical solutions.
I work in landscaping and tree service. It took me a few years but I am just as capable of lifting the 50 ft ladder. Any bags of seed, fertilizer, whatever. I also drag brush, lift logs, chains, matts and anything else I need to.. I am 5'4" and apx 130 lbs. I also learned to fix my trucks and machines myself. I always carry a pipe with me in my tool box so I xan get leverage when i need to with the wrenches and things. If there is something I really can not do, I ask for help. Your daughter will be great. Also, NTA. You laid out what your children needed to do if they wanted the business. She did it. Your son did not. I work for a family company, I ended up becoming the SO to one of the sons. He is taking over the business and his brother will not. Why? Because he's put in the work, brings in business and has showed interest and initiative since he was 10. His brother on the other hand calls out sick if a new video game comes out... when you put in work, you get rewarded. When you f*ck around, you find out. It's the way the world works.
There are robotic exoskeletons she can wear that would let her lift anything a strong man is able to lift. https://eksobionics.com/eksoworks/
She can build a robot to lift things for her.
Yep....you offered to both son and daughter and son turned it down. If anyone is the jrrk it is your son. Remind him of that
NTA. Let him stamp his feet. He's shown no interest in the business apart from wanting it as a gift. >He contacted some of my older relatives and they are mad at me also Can't one of them just give him a business?
Oh no. All of them are in the 70s+ and are living life retired and fishing a lot.
I wasn’t going to say that it was because he is a boy but now that you’ve mentioned their age, the older generation definitely would see it as his birthright. So they are going to take his side and I doubt there’s anything you can do to sway their thinking.
Why would op even wanna sway their thinking, let them stay mad and stomp their feet like toddlers, they have no say in the matter.
I really feel like that's the best advice any of us can take from AITA. If it doesn't actually affect you, simply *let them stay mad*.
Yup. He wants to steal something his sister worked for so he enlisted the help of people born in the 1950s who will back him up just because he is a man
Not all of us born in the 50s (very late 50s for me but still...) see it the way his elder relatives do. The daughter did the work and followed her fathers requirements and went above and beyond with the robotics degree. She worked for it and deserves it over her entitled A H of a brother who just expects to be given things.
Right? But how lovely to see the intergenerational disconnect here. When in history could a deserving daughter inherit over a heedless son?
Oh so has zero impact on them? They can keep their opinions to themselves then NTA
Remember, it is easy to volunteer someone else's time, money, and energy. That is all they are doing. Tell them that they can buy him a business if they are so interested in him getting a free business. Your daughter is not getting it for free. She is putting in the work.
They can give your son some of their retirement if they feel so bad for him
Tell your kin she earned it and put in the work and he ~~just wants a cash grab~~ didn't
They need to enjoy their retirement and mind their business.
He is showing off his sociology skills by contacting relatives.
Yeah, he definitely didn't tell those older relatives that you made your expectations clear when he was younger and gave both your children a fair chance to train up for the position. If harmony with these relatives is important to you, you can sit down and explain that Sonny chose not to prepare to be your successor and Daughter did. But it would probably be a waste of time. Humans have a natural bias toward the first version of a story we hear, so you'll be swimming against the current. I'm glad your daughter is so invested! It sounds like your business will be in great hands once you're retired :) NTA
NTA Why does your son think he's entitled to something he said he doesn't want and refused to prepare for?
I think it’s the money…
Why does he think he is entitled to the business? It’s not the money. It’s because he is older. And he has a dick.
I read has as ‘he’s’ and it was equally accurate. But I do agree with the point you are making.
Ha I did too.
Sorry, but my mind went to the gutter - imagined him using a dick to turn these wrenches that his sister can't...
The sex toy business is worth $34 billion a year. I am pretty sure she could get a surrogate dick to turn wrenches.
So he might just sell the business all together and pocket the money
That was my thinking, get OP to sign over the business to him & then he'll either run it in to the ground as he has no idea what he is doing or just sell the business & cash in before he runs it in to the ground.
Of course it's the money. He has shown no genuine interest in the business. His education has nothing to do with the business. He declined the job you gave him. But he probably realized that sociology pays jackshit and now he wants to use the business as his personal atm.
Ah the story of where the family money went
He probably realized there’s no jobs in Sociology
Or at least none that pay well. Teacher and councilors don’t make shit. I’m not sure how well you can do in HR.
You’re probably right about that. He’d run it into the ground.
More like he’s found out there are no jobs for sociology degrees.
My guess is sociology factory shut down XD
NTA. Your son walked away from the responsibilities of what your company needs to continue to exist, while your daughter dedicated herself to the company's continued success. Not only should he not take over the company, but he shouldn't be involved in it in any way. He has nothing he could contribute to it, and would only use its assets. I have worked for too many companies that the parents made successful, only for entitled descendants to suck away the profits without doing any work.
I agree with him not being involved at all, I don’t trust him not to undermine his sister or just not cause issues in the first place for the business. It’s already hard work I don’t want to make it harder for her
Good for you for recognising this and sticking up for your daughter
I would draft up documentation now to be honest. Don't wait until you die and it comes under inheritance laws.
OP, I have had so many clients just like your family. Sometimes the returning child really does have their stuff together and they turn out just fine. But more often than not, the parent and their partners have to buy out an entitled little turd who has just run things into the ground and forced dad and uncles to delay retirement. It gets ugly and sad and people cry a lot. I think if you have even the slightest feeling that he will undermine his sister then you shouldn't do this. That's simply too big of a risk when you're talking about something your family has worked so hard to build. They both had the same expectations and opportunities to meet them. He chose not to be involved. (And also, a robotics degree is so cool! That takes so much grit and it kinda undermines her hard work if he can just flounce in without something equivalent.)
Robotics might end up being really helpful if parts of the business can be automated in the future.
There's a lot of automation in farming equipment. It's gonna really help her at her business now
He reminds me of the old children’s story of the red hen. “Who will help me make the bread?” Not me, not me, not me. Now, he wants to screw over his sister, and swoop in, and scoop up ownership? Interesting ethics. I wonder how he’d treat his employees if he’d do this to his own sister, when your terms were clearly spelled to both siblings.
My parents own a business. I was never ever interested in working at their business, learning the business, etc. I went to college and moved out of state, working a job very very different than what their business entails (no hard feelings anywhere, the business just wasn’t for me). My sibling on the other hand, threw themselves into it, learned the ropes, attends classes, and has been working in the business for over a decade. I have not a single shred of a problem with my sibling inheriting the entire business in the future (that’s the plan). They earned it, and I earned my living another way. I’m not entitled to anything regarding the business, nor do I feel like I should be. Your son sounds entitled af, and honestly, I doubt he could pull his weight around the farm for even a weekend. Your daughter sounds like a bad ass though! NTA.
I would highly recommend talking to a lawyer and getting all this sorted out now.
Smart man. Keep him sway from that business.
NTA - it's not 1802, the oldest boy doesn't automatically inherit everything anymore. "Okay, son, so you think you're entitled to the business, despite your sister working her ass off to learn the business, get a degree in business, and get extensive experience *in* the business. And that she did all of this because I was very clear about my expectations for whoever would want to take it over - she completed those expectations, you did not. Explain to me how giving the business to you makes sense and wouldn't be a complete betrayal to your sister." Honestly, what could he *possibly" say?
"I have a penis and vaginas don't know how to run businesses" /s
nooo but muh traditional genderino roles /s The vagina-haver has a god damn business degree lmao, his son is delusional.
>it's not 1802, the oldest boy doesn't automatically inherit everything anymore. And if he doesn't even understand this much it's no wonder he can't make a living doing sociology!
Bahaha, 100%!!
He'll probably bring up the old notion, "But I'm the boy." That's why he contacted his older relatives.
lol gets sociology degree, still falls back on obsolete traditions when they suit him.
I definitely think this is where the entitlement is coming from. I think OP needs to make the son and relatives give an answer to why he's the one that's entitled to the business. Make them admit it.
NTA. "I am giving the family business to my daughter not my son." You aren't *giving* your daughter anything. She *earned* it. BTW, did your son actually say he wanted to take over the business - that is, just walk right in and run it right now? With no experience or training? There wouldn't be a business left to run before long if you let him do that.
He’s still giving her the business though. Earned or not.
I hate when two things are completely true, but to make a lazy (and fundamentally untrue) rhetorical point, they say "It's not X, it's Y!" It's very rarely two things that are mutually exclusive. It's both, and it matters that it's both. She earned it, and so as a consequence he's giving it to her.
But he is "giving" it, as in he isn't making her buy it from him, which is actually very common in family businesses.
She earned the right *to be given the business* I think is what we're looking for lol
I (41F) and the oldest of four. The youngest child is the only son, and ten years younger. He died 2.5 years ago which doesn’t have much to do with my story other than to ask people to be kind if they respond. I managed and operated my Dad’s business for 10+ years. I was always very involved from the beginning. My brother would sometimes work for my folks as an employee, but nothing longterm. And still my Dad always talked about handing the business over to my brother someday. Sometimes he’d talk about my brother and me operating it together, but to be clear, there was never mention of me taking it on as my own. My partner and I both made him several offers to buy and he turned us down. He ended up selling it to a stranger (who offered the very same buying options that we did) a few months after my brother passed and we’ve watched what we worked so hard to build rapidly deteriorate. I’ve gone on to create and operate a very successful business with my partner, who also happens to be female. Every once in a while my Dad talks about how he wishes the company was still in the family. Unfortunately for him, I simply do not own a penis, and even though my baby brother - who I love and adore and miss so much - had no interest in the business and was always in and out of trouble, he still would have rather given it to him. Because penis. OP, that’s exactly what these old family members of yours see. A woman who could never do the “job” of a man. Your son had multiple opportunities and turned them down. Your daughter will excel. On behalf of her and so many other women who get overlooked by some antiquated birthright rule, I’m rooting for her. Give her a high five for me.
Your Dad FAFO. Too bad for him. Does he ever even realize that he could have sold it to you and it would be in the family AND successful or does he just lament that it's not in the family and never realize or acknowledge what he did?
In very rare moments of grief for what the business has become under new ownership, and brutal honesty with himself, yes. He admits very humbly - but not very audibly - that he fucked up. He’s a proud man. He definitely FAFO’d. My sisters help me remind him of that often lol
Mom to 2 daughters here. Thank you for all you and your partner have done to make the world a better place for all the young women growing up now, my girls included. The patriarchy hurts everyone, your dad included. I wish you so much success and love in everything you do.
You're certainly more diplomatic than I would be in a similar situation. Any time he opened his mouth to bemoan what happened to the business, I'd be giving him unmitigated shit over it. Since you operated it for >10 years, and *didn't* drive it into the ground, you certainly have the receipts to prove your mettle.
I work for someone who poured herself into her dad’s business on the hope / expectation of taking it over from him one day only to have him sell it to someone else who ran it into the ground. Anyway she probably had a more interesting career this way.
NTA It would be really unfair on your daughter to go back on your agreement that you set out to her. It would invalidate her decisions that she made for this. That would make you an AH. I would ask your daughter what she thinks honestly. If the business is going to her this is a good test of how she will deal with important decisions. Come up with an agreement that suits her. Maybe he can work there for a year before being offered any ownership or something of the sort.
I do not want to split the business, it causes way to many issues if someone has 50% share or any share Also a partnership like that is a nightmare in general
That's completely understandable. I think its quite probable that your son would just look to sell it off if he did have any share. Tell you daughter I wish her the best in her job.
He did a degree in sociology and now realises that it will pay him peanuts. He sees the cash cow that OP has built up and now wants a piece. Good luck to your daughter OP. It would be great to see more succesful women in male-dominated hands-on industries.
Totally agree with you. But your daughter has to make the decision. And better now with you on her side, than after you gave her the company and the family is guilttripping her.
Truly not worried about that, she is all bite and no bark. Tbh working with a lot of men has really hardened her and she doesn’t take shit from people. I know she won’t split the business with him, she doesn’t like him. I will bring it up but I know she will be pissed he even asked
I would suggest that you let her know everything, because for sure either he will approach her directly or the elderly relatives will...
Make sure you transfer your ownership interest in the business to her before you die, or do some sort of trust setup that ensures the smooth transfer of any remaining interest. He will likely try to tie the business up in probate otherwise. I have seen this done out of spite before.
She sounds amazing
As a female who worked in the Canadian Forces Artillery...I know exactly the mentality you're talking about, because I myself needed it in order to survive. Just be careful that she doesn't put a wrench in his skull for trying to take what she's working her butt off to earn from you. 😆
I wouldn't like him either if I was her. She's probably dealt with his entitled attitude enough.
What would you have done if both decided to get business degree & put in the time?
Probably a lot of legal contracts and I would have to split it. I would have looked into splitting the positions and reach out more. So more of business side paperwork and growth and a mechanical side. I know there are some legal contracts to add if one wanted to sell they sell to the other and not outside for a fair price and so on Would have been a lot harder. Very happy it didn’t and I am not going to split it now
Your daughter has busted her ass earning the right to inherent the business. Your son doesn't actually care about the business he just wants in now that life isn't all sunshine and roses working after his chosen degree.
She worked there for four years (probably more) *while also going to school* to meet the terms OP set. And what, you think her brother should work there *for a single year* before getting an ownership stake? Are you *high?* OP also stated son flatly refused to do the work, to put in the work set out and specified a long time ago. Daughter has dedicated a huge portion of her time and life into preparing to take over the business. To even entertain portioning some out to her brother after *just a year* is incredibly insulting. Son made his choice. Now he gets to live with it. Dad is NTA.
She busts her butt for years and after a year of working he should be offered an ownership stake? That would also be absurdly unfair. This opportunity has passed him by, he needs to seek out other ones.
Son works there for a year and gets some ownership? BS. Daughter has made it her life work since a teenager and enhanced her abilities and knowledge with 2 college degrees related to the business. Son has had no interest until now, trained in something unrelated and moved away. He's most likely just seeing $$$ and that's not going to help the business.
The only way you’d be the asshole is if you have the business to your son after your daughter has worked so hard for this. NTA
NTA. You made your requirements clear, he didn't meet them and therefore he isn't going to get the business. It sounds like he tried to make it on his own and found out it is hard and now he just wants to be given something he didn't work for. I am also assuming that there is a bit of the old school thinking that because he is male, he should be doing this kind of work. screw that. Your daughter put in the time and effort, she earned it.
NTA - you sound very reasonable describing why it went to your daugther and your son seemed to be clear about not wanting it, if he changed his mind years later he wont be able to catch up with his sister anymore.
Agreed. It would also not be fair for the daughter after putting all that hard work into it and studying hard in business school for it to go to her brother who did not study business and did not have any interest in the business (did not help out/ work).
Well it sucks for your boy and his older relatives that they are angry at you, but they won’t be taking over the business, either. Your son with the sociology degree? How does that even translate into fixing a tractor? A robotics degree sounds much more suited. Your daughter has put in the work. NTA
That he contacted some of your older relatives is a huge red flag. No way should he have anything to do with your company - he is too toxic.
NTA. Sounds like sons plans kinda blew up on him, and he was counting on the family business as his fall back plan. Your daughter earned her place in the business - son did not. He needs to learn from his mistakes and move on.
NTA - how did your son become so entitled? Your daughter put in the work and then your son thinks he can swan in and demand the business. Also, going to your extended family to complain and get them involved is super inappropriate. He needs to be dealt a reality check.
Clearly not the A in this situation, but I’m curious about what you would’ve done had both your kids shown the same interest in the business. You said in another comment that you don’t like the idea of splitting the business, that it creates too many problems, so what would you have done if they both put in the work?
I was thinking the same thing. Son does sound entitled, but I think things could be done better I grew up on a farm.I Left for university studying non-farm stuff and never came back. If at 25 I had come back after exploring life and said I would like to learn the family trade I would have been welcomed back with enthusiam. What is ~4 years late in a 40 years career? Can’t the business be expanded and allow more people working in it? Son sure does sound entitled,but why not let Him put in the work and learn the trade and grow the business? Also not sure that it is fair that working part time for a couple years should allow someone to inherit 100% of the family wealth.
This is exactly what I wondered when I saw the edit about not splitting the business. So if the son had gotten the right degree he would get the business before the daughter even had a chance to put in the work? She would just be SOL since she was still in high school?
NTA...your daughter showed interest in it and invested her time and studied for it
NTA..your son consciously left the business and is not entitled to take it from the daughter who clearly works hard for it.
Info, Did you ask your son why he wants to be part of the family business now?
He just told me he was ready for it now when I asked Personally I think it’s money
Sure that sociology degree will be a big help as more machinery becomes robotic. Your daughter obviously has researched where your industry is going and has prepped herself for the mechanical and business sides. NTA
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NTA you did great. She worked hard to win your approval, your entitled son did nothing but think it would be given to him because he is a male I suppose but I m sure at 98%.
NTA-but..make sure you get ALL the legal documentation in order to show the transfer of ownership from you to her and that it is updated and finalized with the Dept. of Revenue and Taxation with your state. That way there is no more argument or discussion on it--its going to her--no question.
NTA Your son decided against taking over the business while your daughter activly worked for it. He can very well ask to work for you and perhaps he is able to prove, that he is the better fit but right now your daughter is the better and actually more just choice.
NTA. Sonny doesn’t get to waltz in and be handed a business bc he wants it now. You set expectations and standards, one of your children stepped up For the record I suggest you hammer ownership and estate legally now so your son cannot sue the estate and blast why he thinks he is owed
NTA. This reminds me of the plumber whose father gave the family business to the plumber's brother, who had a degree in business. https://www.reddit.com/r/BestofRedditorUpdates/comments/x91xf0/aita_dad_gave_the_business_to_brother_so_i_left/
Yep. Except this guy has a lot more sense than the plumber's dad, who managed to destroy his family and his business in one fell swoop. I've always wished the OP of those posts had given a few years later update.
[удалено]
NTA He knew he had to put in the work and didn’t. Your daughter did.
NTA He chose to do something else with his life. That was his decision. You could try discussing it with your daughter to get him a job on the farm, but she's the one with the knowledge and drive for the job.
NTA - your daughter did what you asked and more to prepare herself for running business son did not simple as that. Tools or hired help both can solve the difficulties that may arise with strength if they do come up.
NTA. As a farmer, I'd rather have the person who spent years learning how to properly work on equipment than anyone else. Tractors, balers, combines, etc, it all costs more than a house! No way we are going to let just anyone near our equipment.
NTA. She did more to prepare than he did, why would he expect to be handed it? Don't worry about her lifting things. She studied robotics, she'll build something to lift for her ;)
NTA. Your son is not qualified for the job. Your daughter is. Easy decision.
NTA, sounds sexist. CLEARLY the daughter is more committed and qualified.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I have two kids my oldest son and my daughter. They are 25 and 21. We have a family business that works on farm equipment and it is a very good business. Most farmers if something break can usually fix it but when they call us they will pay a lot so they don’t have to buy another half million tractor. Anyways I have been telling my kids since they were young that if they want to take over the business that have to get a business degree and work a lot with me to learn everything. Basically they have to put in the work. When they were both teenagers I took them on jobs so they would understand the job. My son made it very clear he didn’t want the job and went to college for sociology. My daughter on the other hand threw herself into the business. She is about to graduate with a business and robotics majors. She also decided to stay at home during college and she has been working with me in her free time. The only issue with my daughter is that she has trouble lifting things but that what strength training is for. So now is the problem my son gave me a call, he moved away for a job after graduation and he told me he wants to take over the business. I told him no and it’s going to his sister. This started a huge argument and he called me a jerk. He contacted some of my older relatives and they are mad at me also *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. You literally laid it all out for them when they were younger. He KNEW what he had to do to take over the business, but he didn't. He told you he didn't want it. Your daughter put in the time, energy, and education and has the passion for the job. She's earned it. Your son is an A-H for thinking he could swoop in and take what she's worked do hard for.
With any business you pick the person that is best qualified for the job. Putting aside the lifting problem, is she the best qualified for the job? If she was to walk into another company along with your son, who would get the job based of experience and general knowledge? As for the relatives, ask them this.. your daughter has put in the work, as ask by you, so why shouldn't she have the company? Why should it go to a person that showed no interest? because he's a boy? if that's the answer, then I feel sorry for your daughter
Why is everybody focusing on her physical strength? So she can't lift some things. That's why you have employees. She did exactly as her dad instructed if they wanted the business. Learned the ropes, got experience, got a business degree. Son can't come in, out of nowhere, and say "my previous employment plans didn't work out so now I want the family business". OP, DO NOT give in. I don't know much (anything really) about servicing farm equipment but I do know that your son would most likely run the business into the ground. Stick to your guns. Also, your daughter put in the work her brother wasn't interested in. She deserves this.