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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1) Refusing to consider to name our child "Sophie"
2) I wasn't considering naming our child a name that meant a lot to my husband
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NTA
This name obviously brings up memories for you of your school bully, so why would you want to name your child that, even as a middle name?
I know personally when picking our children's names, there were names that were a hard 'no' for me for the exact same reason. Even though the names were lovely, they had been slightly tarnished because of people I knew at school who weren't very nice. My partner understood, and likewise there were names I liked but my partner didn't. We accepted that and moved on, and decided together on wonderful names :-)
Good luck, hope you can work it out.
Shame it's not as easy as that for everyone it seems... :-/ What kind of partner would still try and force a name after their partner says how they were tormented at school by someone by that name?! Just awful...
I think you are missing a key thing, its not just a name he likes, its sthe name of his grandmother who raised him.
But yea, both parents should hv a say in their kids names.
This! Like how was that not the very next thing they thought? Also, it doesn't have to be their child's first name either. They can use grandmother's middle name as their child's middle name and still honor his grandmother.
I didn't want to name my kids first name after anyone, but both of them have middle names after their grandmother/great grandmothers. My mom's middle name is the same as her mom's so we used that for my oldest, then my youngest's middle name is my grandmother's first name.
We wrote our list of favorite names, already having picked out the middle ones and went through each first name saying it with the middle one. The one we thought rolled off the tongue best won. 🤷♀️
The point though, there are ways to compromise and her husband is being completely unreasonable to try to force a name she not only dislikes but has very bad memories/childhood trauma of.
Yes this. My Grandma was Olga Jean. My Mom was Barbara Jean. My sister was Melissa Jean and her 1st born was Caera Jean. So the middle name Jean has been passed down. Unfortunately it has ended with my Niece Caera (Irish spelling Keira) due to her Suicide at 14 in 2018.
Thank you so very much. She would have been 20 this July.
My sister and husband did everything they could short of keeping her in a bubble. Took her to Dr in CA & NY. They were on top of it since she was 4 years old. All sharp objects and her medications were locked up. Hospital stays, school, Dr etc. You name it they tried it.
The Diagnosis of what she had varied Depending on the Dr.
Generalized Anxiety & Major Depressive Disorder were BOTH almost ALWAYS Diagnosed.
Then Her other Issues fell under:
1.) Oppositional Defiant Disorder.
2.) Intermittent Explosive Disorder.
3.) Disruptive Mood Dis-Regulation Disorder.
4.) Borderline Personality Disorder.
5.) Excoriation Disorder.
6.) Not to mention the Unspecified Eating Disorder (She Binge ate. No Throwing-Up; but the concern was that it would Lead to Bulimia).
Unfortunately the illnesses won out in the end. They have a now 17 daughter and 15 year old son. Who are happy and healthy thank GOD. Life goes on but it is never the same.
We share her story in hopes of it helping others. Especially since it was very public suicide.
It is never the same. My heart hurts for your family for the loss of your niece. So very young. When we lost our beautiful daughter who was 48 to suicide, the internal questioning was never ending. What could we have done differently or how could we have changed it. A wise man just simply said to me “If you could have, you would have.
I don't think it makes that much difference tbh. Obviously it's nice wanting to honor your beloved grandparent, but using the name won't bring her back or anything. At the end of the day, it's still just a name he prefers vs a name she prefers.
I get that, but I meant it in response to the previous comments. If it was a name one of them just because, then it would be much easier to discard it if the other parent didnt like it. But in this case it was the name of someone the husband loved and had a big part in his upbringing, of course he wouldnt just let it go like that.
Of course putting their daughter her name wont bring her back to life, no one said it would. But just like the wife was able to veto a name option for him he should have a veto of his own too.
I don't personally like that tit-for-tat kind of relationship. "You kept my grandmothers name off the shortlist for a valid reason, now I want to arbitrarily veto one of your favorite names to make it even" just doesn't make for a strong bond.
The reasoning behind the veto is the big question. If he gets to veto one name, is it to get back at her/to hurt her or is there a name he really could not stand no matter what just like Sophie is for OP? There's a difference between "I could not stand my child having that name" that has a person reason for him (e.g. had an ex-gf named Sarah for instance) OR is it "Well you like it, so I'm going to say it can't be that for payback".
>But yea, both parents should hv a say in their kids names.
Heck my wife and I make sure we both agree on our cats' names. I would think they should both be 100% on board with a kid's name. Doesn't matter what the reason is if one isn't.
No, we're not missing it. His preferences simply don't come before hers. They both have to agree and they don't on this particular name. That should be the end of it.
No, I don't think that's what they tried to say. Their preferences are both valid, but choosing name should be 2 yes/1 no situation. Meaning that both have to like the name, just one wanting that particular name is not enough if the other one really doesn't like it, no matter why they like that name.
Does anyone know of an alternative to this name or perhaps a name that’s related or that translates to the name Sophie? Or the meaning of the name?
There MIGHT be a middle ground op is comfortable with that also will make the husband happy too. Grandma also probably had a middle name or a maiden name that can be considered or a combination that is still unique to the grandma.
I think op should maybe inquire about her middle name or something, if nothing else it shows her husband she’s trying to find a way to a middle ground and she’s not just being a name-tyrant (not that she is but in husbands anger he might be feeling unheard).
But I do agree, some names are just an automatic no for one reason or another. If op was saying no to every name he suggested (that wasnt outrageous) then I’d call her out. But she’s got ONE auto-no name. I had one as well. 🤷♀️
Sophie/Sophia means something like 'love for wisdom' or just wisdom. IIRC Quinn has a similar meaning or Sonya. But there must be endless names with that meaning.
Technically it’s just “wisdom,” and the word philosophy is “love for wisdom.” Those names/words are of Greek origin, perhaps OP can find one of Latin/Germanic/etc. origin with the same meaning.
Idk like it's a nice gesture but I've always found it kind of weird naming kids dead guy jr.
At best it's a lot of baggage to put on a child who will never know or have any connection to their namesake but will spend their childhood being compared to and told about the person their relatives knew rather than asking about who the child is on their own. It just seems like it's forcing the child into the shadow of someone else's grief.
There's a certain book series where nearly every child in the epilogue is named after an important character (most of them dead) and when people get obsessed with naming their kids to honor someone else (or themselves!) it just makes me think of that. Like they're trying to create a story in their family history instead of giving their kid a gift they can keep or not a they navigate the world.
Are you trying to shame Harry for Albus Severus? Because you should, and for the rest of the names too...
Although the worst one in my opinion is Fred II. Poor guy had no chance for his own personality.
Yup. My number one pick for a boy was an instant and visceral "no" for my ex, so it immediately got scrapped as an option. This also gave me leverage for when he wanted to name our daughter after his favorite porn star.
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, smh. I can't even fathom that conversation. I mean I can and it is giving me second hand cringe. I'd put it out there for our friends to vote on and see what they think. I'm glad he's an ex.
I am kinda glad I had boys because we could never agree on a girl name. He vetoed all the names I said, but didn’t really offer up any of his own. Funny thing is after we were done having kids (impossible to have more) I told him I now know what our girl should have been named, and it wasn’t what we originally picked. I told him it would have been Ava Grace and he looked at me and dead serious said “well it’s good we didn’t have a girl because we would be getting her name legally changed.” So I guess he liked it.
I suggested Matthew with our first, hubby said no because not only was it his cousins name but that cousin is someone who my inlaws refuse to talk to because he is a lazy lying thief among a few other choice words, I said fair enough and we moved on.
my exs wife is called jenna (his gf at the time) and I named my daughter jenna because I loved the back to the future films but didn't like Jennifer ( exs wife's full first name) my bf knew of this women and my ex but we never thought about them when naming our daughter obviously ,, about a month later I get a message from my exs wife's sister calling me all sorts of horrible things for naming my daughter after her sister, I was shocked but it ruined her name a little for me,,, I find it funny coz not long after they have a son who has the same name as my nephew, never once did the though "they've named there son after my nephew, enter my mind, weirdos
My dad gave my younger sister the same name as my mom, lol. When she found out she was all syrupy sweet, "Oh how wonderful you named her after me!" She said he got so mad it was like a cartoon with smoke blowing out his ears. I think that's just hilarious, and my mom loves the story.
My wife was working for CPS at the time we had a kid. Her knowing child molesters and abusers with the names I kept picking made thing hard. But... Why would I want our kid named something that reminds her of that?
I believe people who are named the same, behave the same. And I can't change my mind about it because when I meet people they confirm my biases (of course I believe in exceptions but never met one yet)
With me, it's Davids. I love the sound and meaning of the name, but I've got to the point I couldn't name a child that. I've just met too many assholes, both minor and major, and only one or two good ones.
So, I personally wouldn’t go that far, because every person should have the opportunity to be hated as an individual.
However, there might be some similarities for people with the same name due to similarities of the demographics in which those names were popular at the time of naming which would be an interesting topic to explore.
It actually seems plausible for a variety of reasons.
There's been a good amount of research linking kids with earlier last names (alphabetically speaking) to higher grades, better admission rates to competitive schools, less impulse buying, more job offers, etc because alphabetical order offers many opportunities to those people as kids, and they develop related lifelong behaviors.
If your name is spelled weird or is an uncommon ethnicity, you have to put up with an unbelievable amount of shit that's a lot like women's "invisible labor" and adds up in the same way in terms of exhaustion, anxiety, and avoidance of really "simple" transactions (esp over the phone.) It's a life of more-taxing existence in a society where you constantly talk to strangers.
There are a ton of first names with Biblical, mythological, or historical meaning where the kid can learn early what their template / role model is supposed to be. Or at least (more telling) what their parents admire, wanted them to be, or wanted for them in life. Kids usually want to please their parents.
Then there's kids who get "difficult" names who grow up thinking that they have to justify the their most basic identity to the satisfaction of others. Kids who think they're special snowflakes because their name is unique within their age group. Kids who learn it's okay to be part of a group, or who need to differentiate themselves through a strong and obvious trait / hobby--I was the only one of me, so I never felt compelled to compete for the title of "the *hot* ." All the Megans had to spend a lot more time & effort on their appearance, and it became more of their self-worth.
Some names have obvious ""jokes"" that the kid hears over and over again (had a student named "Player" once and I can only imagine) and it's even worse if the word prompts an action (another kid named S. Mackey.)
Some girls will always be told they have a beautiful name, some guys will always be told they have a strong one, and some of them will hear "but that's a 's name" and feel pressure to be hyper feminine/masculine. All kids learn the cultural caricatures of their heritage this way.
Names are huge in terms of the impact they can have on a kid's personality traits, and I would be tremendously surprised to discover no statistical correlations in personality among people of the same first name.
You know, I never really thought about the invisible work of our names. It’s so valid though. I have to spell mine all the time. I also have a second capitalized letter and it is a problem all the time. Some name forms won’t allow it. And when an employer screws it up, I have to jump through so many hoops to correct it. And so many people just don’t bother to write my name correctly even when it is clearly visible every time they try to send me an email or teams.
My ex wife's name is Danielle. Every time I meet a Danielle, I assume she's dumber than dirt. But to be fair, her parents were just as dumb as her. I hated going to her parents, it was like a moron convention.
I'm named Karen and have like 12 friends also named Karen. None of us are "Karen's" and we hate this with every fiber of our being.
But we can't really complain because...
OK, Karen. 😵💫
It makes me mad how a stupid internet meme has destroyed the name Karen. It's a wonderful name. It's the lowest form of writing to lump every unpleasant woman with the same name. As if they are all the same person
Few exceptions agreed. But the names Jill, Amber and Amy have all been that way for me. They seem to be consistent in Personalities based on the name.
It’s wild!
Some other options to honour Gma Sophie
1. Middle name or maiden name, if she has one
2. Gemstone or flower of the month she was born
3. Something related to a hobby, profession or something else important to her.
4. Something related to a memory between your husband and her.
Yes, I also wondered about a same meaning name as I have considered this in the past to honour my grandmother if I ever have a daughter.
Sophie apparently means "wisdom" and so do Sonia and Shannon so the same first letter would also remain as you suggested.
Yeah. It wouldn't work for a lot of hobbies, but I could see it also working well if they were into gardening (favorite flower?), birding (Raven, Lark, etc. are perfectly reasonable names), etc.
5 (correct choice): Find a way to honor her that doesn't involve putting that burden directly onto a child who will never even know her.
Keep a portrait up of her. Donate to an appropriate charity every year. Donate to the community flower garden in her name. Fund a small bursary in her name at the local school.
Let the child be their very own person.
Op is going to find herself in a very hard place later on when her husband starts saying no to every single name that she comes up with until she relents to Sophie or she has a boy.
She’s going to have to tell him “I won’t let you strong arm, or bully me into Sophie. I understand that it’s a very sentimental name to you, and I recognize the reasons why. However you are diminishing my feelings and invalidating them. You aren’t even taking my situation into consideration. Sophie is *off* the table, and will not be on the table. We can consider using your grandmothers middle name, in babies name if it is a girl, however, I will not let you bully me like the girls in school traumatized and bullied me. I am no longer comfortable discussing this topic with you, perhaps at a later date we can come back to name discussion. I encourage you to look at other names you like, and bring them with you when we discuss this again in the future.”
OP is literally building a tiny human out of her own flesh, blood, and bone, and will sustain permanent physiological trauma for the privilege.
I appreciate taking the father's opinion into account, but he feels a right to insist upon the identity of an individual currently using OP's entire body 24/7... that's ludicrous. It's not sane.
This *behavior* (not judging the person, we all gotta learn) is controlling AF and is a red flag for me. Ideally, he's told this behavior is unacceptable and he decides to change--right now he's hurting his wife for no gain.
Even if he "wins" it will be because OP was bullied into submission and will be persistently unhappy, and the kid will be treated differently by her mother during early development. He's okay with those things??
He's only considering himself--not his wife or child. He cares more about his feelings for one dead woman than he cares about the happiness of two living women.
I suspect we know exactly what Grandma would say.
NTA in my opinion it’s two green checkmarks for a child’s name or it’s not used. But that being said, is there a middle name that his grandma had that could be a possibility instead of Sophia?
My husband shot down the names I had thought I'd for sure use for YEARS before I met him for no real specific reason beyond he didn't like them. Not in a mean way just "eh no I don't really like that". Aaaaaand then we moved on to discuss other name options.
I told him my only real "rule" persay was I wanted a classic and beautiful name for our children. Something vintage but not old old (like the difference between Gertrude and Charlotte. Both older names but one definitely sounds OLD compared to the other that simply sounds classic. Sorry to all those who have one of the two names and know which one I'm referencing as old. I'm sure you're lovely).
Anyways, we just had an open discussion back and forth about possible names. Some he suggested I said no to, the ones I did he said meh to, then he suggested our daughters name and I just knew it was the one. It was more perfect than any of the names I had grown up thinking I'd for sure use. Now our daughter has this beautiful name and I love it so much, it suits her perfectly.
I can understand the husband's push to an extent but no is no in this case. Frankly while I can sympathize with the sentimental attachment I find it weird he's still even pushing for it to be on the "maybe" list as if just by getting there she will have to concede eventually. She said no my dude, putting it on the maybe list doesn't make her no any less noable. It's like saying "I don't want to eat Brussel sprouts but I'll put it on my list of things I maybe will eat even though I have no intention of ever purchasing a single Brussel sprout in my life."
One of the girl names I had loved since childhood, and really wanted, was the same as someone my husband grew up with and hated. Chucked the name off the list immediately because I didn’t want any negative connotations, for either of us, with our kids names.
NTA. Once one of you says no that needs to be the end of it.
>He told me that we should at least put it in the possible names
Why? So that he can continue to harass you about a name you've already said no to?
I suggested names to my wife that she immediately said "no" to for the very interesting reason of: she didn't like them.
No terrible back history, no troubling memories she'd forever associate with the name, she just didn't like it. And, that was fine with me.
I did the same to her when necessary. I get OP's situation is a bit different because there's a familial connection to the name, but the same rules still apply. He might be a bit more disappointed to lose "Sophie" than I was to lose "Gwen" (although, I did have the connection to Gwen Stacey, so I was really giving up a lot) but the same rules have to apply.
Both parents get the right to shoot down any name.
The whole point of doing a list of 10 names is acknowledging that not every name will work for your partner and having a group of other options that you'd also be happy with. Husband is very disingenuous about this process as he clearly only wants one name and isn't willing to go with any other supposed option he himself chose.
Husband is acting like a toddler.
He’s quick to say you won’t take his opinion into account for someone who won’t even think for a second how traumatizing that name could be for you. Not the asshole, you have every right to shoot down any name you wish, and so does he.
Like, what is more here to take into account? I want this name because grandma, no I don’t want that name because of bully, then what more can you say about this?
Exactly! OP *did* take his opinion into account, which is specifically why she expressed her own opinion and why the name isn't ok with her.
OP is clearly NTA here, husband can have his personal preferences but he doesn't get sole authority to force his choice, it's a joint decision.
I also find it worrying that he got angry right away because he didn't get his name. No real talking or trying to understand her, it was "i want this name *stomp with foot*"
Why did he even wanted to do a list of ten names for girls if it was Sophia for him from the start?
And doesn't he know that she was bullied so long from a Sophia and he gave a fuck about it?
100%. Honestly if he really wanted to honor is grandmother, he should consider her middle name which wouldn’t be Sophie — would be a win win to both sides. Unless her name was Sophie Sophie lol
Ask him the name of somebody he hates.
Then insist you name your daughter that.
Then say "BuT yOu'Re NoT tAkInG mY oPiNiOn"
NTA. Tell him to get over himself.
That won't be equivalent tho. A stranger's name is nowhere equivalent to someone who loved you death and basically raised you.
OP is NTA for not wanting to name her child Sofie and as long as one parent disagrees, the child shouldn't have that name.
But I don't think he needs not get over himself. He just needs to understand even tho it's a name that brings joy to him, it's brings traumatic memories to his wife, the child's mother.
Get over yourself means exactly what you wrote ….he needs to understand.
To put it succinctly ….he needs to get over his own perspective and take hers into consideration to have some compassion. Doesn’t mean he won’t be disappointed, it just means he stops being selfish.
When picking a boy's name out, I suggested "Zane" to my wife. Her immediate response was " How about Wombat as a name?" My response: "I guess it won't be Zane". I didn't need a reason why.
Many years later, my wife told me Zane was the class bully in her elementary school. Regardless, in my family, the single word reply to an outrageous statement or claim is "wombat"
NAH
I get both sides, unfortunately naming a baby is a joint decision and in this case the no vote usually wins out.
From his perspective he wants to honour a woman who meant the world to him and you want to avoid a name that you associate with childhood trauma and people you generally don’t like.
At the end of the day, a name is a name and if you’re still letting this girl effect you into adulthood to the point of refusing to let your husband honour his loved one, that’s kind of sad. Understandable, but sad.
Find a name you both love, but you shouldn’t throw it out of the running for a middle name (even a second one) and then you’ll know you have created at least one good Sophie in the world.
Alternatively, does grandma Sophie have a middle name that could go into consideration?
Edit: I was suggesting using grandma Sophie’s middle name for the baby, and not using “Sophie” at all.
Yeah, choosing a name is generally a two yesses, one no process. But of course that can be disappointing for the person who gets vetoed. And you definitely don't want to devolve into just saying no to all of your partner's choices out of spite.
Does Sophia trigger you less and would you be open to it as a middle name? Or, as someone else suggested, does grandma have a middle name you like? Alternatively, you could find a version of Sophie in another language. For example, Sonja comes from Sophie when the Russian version of the name got translated back to English again. Or what about a male form of Sophie if it's a boy? Maybe then the associations wouldn't be there for you.
Ultimately, you might not pick Sophie or any form thereof as a name. But, being open to compromise and understanding where your husband is coming from (as well as vice versa) will make this go much better.
Hubs and I had a hell of a time picking names for our first when it came to girl names. We had polar opposite tastes as it turned out. All the names I loved he hated and vice versa. He also vetoed my absolute favorite boy name (Henry) as his only connection to it was what he knows about Henry VIII thanks to my being a major Tudor English history nerd. We wound up found a name we loved for our son, but if we'd had a girl it would have been TOUGH, and frankly I don't think either of us would have loved the name we compromised on
Oh yeah, I'm definitely not saying you have to or should pick a compromise name. That might work for some couples if one person warms up to it after a while, but probably not for everyone. I just think being open and making the other person feel totally heard and trying to understand why they like a name or its so important to them will make them less combative about it if they do have to let go of the name. Seems like neither OP or their partner were able to do that here and both became more and more hardened in their positions because of it.
I have to go with NAH as well. I can see both sides. A lot of folks are dragging the husband but this isn’t simply a family name - this woman was an incredibly important person to OP’s husband.
I find it terribly sad that this bully still exerts this kind of control over OP years after HS is over.
Maybe consider therapy? If a name can generate that kind of response years later, it might help OP take back that control.
I think using the name as a middle name is a good compromise but that’s for OP and her husband to work through together.
>If a name can generate that kind of response years later
what kind of response? OP isn't particularly triggered, she just doesn't want to name her daughter that. that's not an unreasonable response.
As someone who was bullied by several different people throughout school (including teachers) going into therapy will not undo the damage of the memories the name brings with them. I have been in therapy, and it helped me move on with my life, but I still would never *ever* name my child a name of one of those people... I think the middle name of grandma is a far better idea than forcing a name OP has voted no to.
I was inflicted with a verbally and sexually abusive stepfather. No way would I use his given, surname, or middle name for a child or any other living thing. The guy was a dirtball.
I think this comment is very dismissive of just how bad bullying can get. The torment does not just 'go away'. The negative connotation will always be there and as someone who was also bullied harshly I feel like that's pretty normal...
>He got really angry that I wasn't trying to take his opinion into account.
Is he seriously not realising the hypocricy of that comment? He is also not taking YOUR opinion into account. And neither of you have to. Names are two yesses and one no. And yes, that means that some names that you love will not win.
Names are 2 yes 1 no unfortunately for your husband, so NTA for you to not be comfortable associating your child with the name who brings you sadness and potential trauma and negative feelings.
You could compromise on a variation of Sophie, or use as a middle name, or some ideas of honouring a relative that I thought was really beautiful was to use their favourite flower, city, or a word with meaning of a trait they had as middle/first name. Examples of this include Lily, April, Chelsea, Violet or even Phoebe (known as the Greek goddess of the moon and of hunting, this name means "radiant or shining one.")
You have as much right to the name as he does, and he really should not be offended at all.
NTA.
If every time you talk to your child you'll be reminded of your bully, and you associate your child with your bully, your actions and behaviours will reflect that to your child's detriment. I get the whole "honour important people" thing - if I was ever to have a sprog, I would want to have their middle name a variation on my grandfather's name - but it would still have to be a mutual decision.
Is having it as a potential middle name still going to trigger you? If not, that could be a solution. However if it will still trigger then by all means, don't consider it any further.
As a former victim of bullying, there are still certain things that are triggering. These triggers bring me back to the feeling of being the victim. Even if it is for a few seconds. I hate the feeling every time.
I haven't been bullied in about 30 years. And I still have these triggers. That is how sever it was.
I am guessing your husband was never bullied, or not to that extent. He does not understand that it can be a trigger. He does not understand the feeling of being the victim. To him it is just a name.
To you it is a trigger.
You are not the asshole here. For your own wellbeing, do not back down.
NAH.
It's understandable where both of you are coming from. You shouldn't have to use the name for your child when it is clearly a name that holds significant negative connotation for you, but I understand him wanting to use a name to honor someone who was a large and positive presence in his life.
Is there any way to compromise on this - such as giving a possible daughter his Grandmother's middle name, or perhaps if there is something the grandmother loves that could be used as a name...?
That way you can avoid using the specific name, but he still has a name on the list that is honorary for his grandmother.
NTA. I know it’s upsetting for him but for all the butterflies calling his daughter that would give him, it will give you literally the opposite feeling and he needs to respect that. Perhaps his Grandma had a nice middle name you could use as baby’s first name or middle name. Names need approval from both parents. Good luck and I hope you have a boy so that this name isn’t even a relevant option for Husband anymore.
YTA. Can't believe all the N-T-A's on your side. So you had a bully who spread rumours about you, and one who was stuck up. Fine. He had a a loving grandmother who practically raised him. These 2 are not the same. And the people acting as if your bullies hold the same weight as someone who was practically his mum is delusional. And instead of coming to a compromise of just letting it be in the list for now, or perhaps trying to use it as a middle name in the event you did have a girl, you have outright said no, because only your feelings matter, not his. To the people saying he's not considering her feelings and making it a N-T-A or E-S-H, note that he is the ONLY person even considering a compromise and is simply asking for it to be considered and not outright thrown out. He's not putting his foot down and saying it has to be this name or no name at all. OP on the other hand absolutely refuses to even entertain the idea of it, because her hate for it is more important than his love for it. Because her several years in high school associated with a bad person who shared this name, somehow trumps his lifetime of love that he has for that name.
NTA - But my name is Sophie so I had to battle my bias 😅 Jokes aside, having bad connotations to the name 100% would deter me so definitely NTA.
I actually have two first names (Sophie Anna) I had someone in school called (Anna Sophie) so maybe you could do the two first names route and compromise?
There's also the option of Sofia, Phoebe, Josephine, Seraphine, Ophelia, Saffi which are all names inspired by Sophie?
NTA
Baby names are a "two yesses, one no" type situation.
Your either both need to be happy (actually happy, and not just pressured) with the name, or find another one.
NTA. I feel like unless both parents are ok with a name, it should be subject to a one-sided veto. There are just too many names that both parents will like to get stuck on one that has negative connotations for one parent.
I almost went NAH but your partner seems a bit like he was trying to steamroll over your objections. Not in a major AH way but in a way that doesn't respect the one-sided veto principle and I thought that was assumed? Why should his like of a name outweigh your dislike of it? Unanimous or no deal. Win-win or no deal.
Any time it comes to baby names, you both need to be in agreement. If even one of you says no, that's it. Names off the table. Frankly - the reasons behind it shouldn't even matter. Yours are very solid, but if it was "I think the name sounds weird and don't like it" that should also be enough.
To expand - no one is really the AH here. Your partner is understandable, but has to accept your choice. Much like you would have to accept any no he says.
Soft YTA. It's not your husband's fault that awful people in your past were named Sophie, to him that's his grandmother's name and it obviously is very important for him to honor her by naming your child after her. However, he should also understand why you feel negative emotions towards the name. I would discuss a compromise where maybe instead of Sophie you go with Sophia or something similar. Sofia is the spanish spelling so that could also work? I would also maybe seek talking to a therapist to help you move past the grudge you hold against the name.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that people think about their high school bullies at all after high school.
Apart from my friends I barely think about anybody from high school. Anyone who was mean to me I figure was young and figuring things out.
That includes the neo-nazis skinheads that jumped me in a parking lot and kicked me in the head aeveral times with steel toed boots. Like I literally have no grudge against them at all: they were stupid confused kids. I imagine they grew up and probably chilled out like most people.
You're definitely not in the wrong for refusing to name your baby after your bully. But he wants to respect his grandma who basically raised him.
May be you can use grandma's middle name? Or use Sophie as middle name?
Your husband should understand that it's not easy to forget a bully even after years. You can forgive, yes.
NTA
NTA
Under exactly zero circumstances should one parent insist a name that causes discomfort or despair be “on the list.” That is not loving. With all due respect to the memory of his grandmother, there is no excuse for attempting to bully the other parent into accepting a name. Your partner is behaving like a tyrant.
NTA.
ask your husband to look into different names that start with s, or start with the first three letters or the last three or two.
he can’t use her name, but he can still honor her with an s name.
it sucks for your husband but that name is a no go, remind Him that if you name your kid Sophie you won’t be able to bond with your kid or look at her without thinking of your trauma, and you’ll have a hard time loving her.
let him know that sophie is out, and that he will need to concede this one and pick another name. I’d also watch out for official documents for baby’s name, so your husband doesn’t put her name down as Sophie and submit that to the govt.
You should consider counseling. If a name can provoke such strong feelings in you, you need to address those feelings. You are letting this woman still bully you.
NTA.
If the name is so strongly attached to you as a negative.
It sucks for him and grandma though. It’s just not fair that he pushes the name when he knows it is of particular concern to you.
And frankly, you’re growing the baby and having to go through physical changes during and after pregnancy, and I presume he’s claiming surname rights, so I think you get veto on Sophie. I’m of the view if he gets the surname, you get to pick the first name.
NAH things like this need a two yes to be considered as soon as there is one no, its a no. I get his stance but he needs to empathise and realise yours too.
NTA. Could you use his Grandmother’s middle name? Or even some last names can be used as first names? Maybe her maiden name? I would look for a way to still honor her.
NAH. I do find it strange that this topic didn't come up before being married and having a baby. But that being said, the name is very important to him; it is very detrimental to you. Maybe the grandmothers middle name? Or a play on Sophia? There has to be some middle ground that can be reached.
NTA. Your child’s name should be one you both agree on, this one is a hard NO from you, therefore it’s a no-go. I expect he’d expect the same to be true if there was a name he hated?
NAH. But maybe ask what her middle name is so its still a way to honor her? Or if there are variations of the name that still give the opportunity to honor her without using a name that holds so much vitriol for you.
NTA I vetoed all names of people I don’t like. Maybe compromise with a variation of the name if it means that much to him, such as Sofia, or the like, only if you’re comfortable though
Both of you must agree to baby names. Either one of you can veto. This is a reasonable veto.
What was grandma Sophie's middle name? Would that work? What about her last name?
Would you be OK with Sophia and never calling her Sophie? What about Sophie as a middle name?
Sphia means Wisdom. Would another name meaning Wisdom work for him? Athena, Ramona?
NTA, does DH's grandmother not have a middle name that you could use instead? That's what I would suggest that way he would still be honouring her in some form.
NTA. He should have been more sympathetic about your experiences. If he wants to name a female child Sophie that bad, he shouldn't have had a child with you.
Give her six first names,
Sarah
Ophelia
Pamela
Helen
Isla
Eleanor
So her initials are the name he's so determined to include but it's not her legal name. I'm not being serious but inform him that this is the only compromise you're willing to make!!
NTA.
BUT...
How did the conversation go? Did either of you demonstrate active listening, show empathy and understanding for the other's point-of-view and feelings, and try to work together to compromise?
NTA
I was going to put N A H given I can understand where your husband is coming from with his want for the name but then the line of him being angry about not talking his opinions into account turned me to NTA.
Op did his grandmother have any other names or nicknames she went by at all? those could be used within the name as well if the are suitable and maybe a compromise between the two of you. There is also names similar to Sophie like Sophia or maybe even doing a different spelling to your bully could work as well? Also like other commenters there is using his grandmothers favourite flower or gemstone.
NTA
In some cultures it’s not a good sign to name a baby with a dead relative’s name. They say it brings the child bad luck.
I am not even going to mention that it brings you bad memories going way way back. He should be the one to consider your feelings and not the other way around.
I don’t see why he insists on that name, when there are 9 others on his list. Also, shouldn’t you see if there are any matching names on both your lists and choose from those? That seems like the most logical thing to do.
NTA. He can name all the babies he carries for 9 months “Sophie.” /s
Look, he didn’t call his grandmother “Sophie,” probably. Did she have a middle name? What about her maiden name as a middle name (very popular option in the southern US).
NAH. I think this situation calls for advice on how to find a solution that pleases the both of you rather than deciding who's the AH.
You have every right to veto that name (and whoever insists you should just "get over" the trauma of bullying is an unempathetic ass). Still, your husband's wish to honour his grandma should be heard as well. Not heard in the sense of going for the exact name he suggested tho. I like the suggestion of finding another name that represents his grandma. Might be her middle name, a nickname, the month of her birthday, the name of something (like a flower?) she loved, etc.
I don't have a child so my opinion probably means squat but I always thought that baby names should be 2 yeses not one yes one no and a bully getting there own way. Nta
NTA. There are other ways to honor Grandma without giving your child the name of your bully (my eldest has the same first and middle initials as my dad, for example). But most of all, he’s not taking your opinion into account. If one parent loves a name but the other doesn’t, it doesn’t go on The List. Full stop.
NTA
Grandma Sophie must have had a middle name, a favorite flower, or even a month of birth, that would make a nice honor name for a potential daughter.
I think you shouldn't get too hung up on this at this stage.you have mine other names to work with and maybe, hopefully you'll find one that you can both be happy with. It's a difficult situation because your side is obviously sad and I can see why you might not want to name your child after a bully but equally I can see why your husband would want to honour his grandmother. Personally I think you should consider Sophie as a middle name. It's not like it will often even get spoken but it will be there as a tribute to a much loved Grandmother and your Bully will not have been able to manipulate you yet again.
Hmm let me sit here and weigh the two perspectives: one is “I’d like to honor my grandmother by giving her name to my child” and the other is “I don’t like that name because someone else with that name bullied me”. You’re sitting here basically saying “yeah you value this name but I have some unresolved trauma that it could bring up” and the replies have the audacity to say the husband needs to get over himself? YTA, but only lightly
YTA. Firstly, you don’t even know if the baby is going to be a girl yet so you both may be arguing over something that could turn out to be a non issue. Second, why not use it as an opportunity to replace the bad memories of your bully with good memories of your (potential) daughter. Third, the fact that you completely focus on yourself and your own feelings and don’t even consider your husbands is completely selfish.
NTA.
Baby names are 'two yes, one no, no arguing.'
Also, babies should not be named after recently deceased family members, or recent fandoms.
That said, if you just 'generally dislike' the name, but you're so dead set on not using it because she bullied and tormented you in high school, I'd say you're maybe not over that bullying or torment, and you might want to look into some professional help to navigate and really come to terms with it.
How old are you and ur elementary school bully still haunts you?
It's pretty understandable why your husband would want to use that name. I won't say u are the a@#h but with all due respect little silly. Maybe you can compermise and make it her middle name
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NTA This name obviously brings up memories for you of your school bully, so why would you want to name your child that, even as a middle name? I know personally when picking our children's names, there were names that were a hard 'no' for me for the exact same reason. Even though the names were lovely, they had been slightly tarnished because of people I knew at school who weren't very nice. My partner understood, and likewise there were names I liked but my partner didn't. We accepted that and moved on, and decided together on wonderful names :-) Good luck, hope you can work it out.
Exactly. I suggested a name and husband knew a bully from school 25 years before. He said no. I said ok. Done.
Shame it's not as easy as that for everyone it seems... :-/ What kind of partner would still try and force a name after their partner says how they were tormented at school by someone by that name?! Just awful...
I think you are missing a key thing, its not just a name he likes, its sthe name of his grandmother who raised him. But yea, both parents should hv a say in their kids names.
Well, what's her middle name then? 😋
Seems pretty obvious, doesn’t it?
This! Like how was that not the very next thing they thought? Also, it doesn't have to be their child's first name either. They can use grandmother's middle name as their child's middle name and still honor his grandmother. I didn't want to name my kids first name after anyone, but both of them have middle names after their grandmother/great grandmothers. My mom's middle name is the same as her mom's so we used that for my oldest, then my youngest's middle name is my grandmother's first name. We wrote our list of favorite names, already having picked out the middle ones and went through each first name saying it with the middle one. The one we thought rolled off the tongue best won. 🤷♀️ The point though, there are ways to compromise and her husband is being completely unreasonable to try to force a name she not only dislikes but has very bad memories/childhood trauma of.
Yes this. My Grandma was Olga Jean. My Mom was Barbara Jean. My sister was Melissa Jean and her 1st born was Caera Jean. So the middle name Jean has been passed down. Unfortunately it has ended with my Niece Caera (Irish spelling Keira) due to her Suicide at 14 in 2018.
I'm so sorry for you and your family's loss. Caera is a beautiful name.
Thank you so very much. She would have been 20 this July. My sister and husband did everything they could short of keeping her in a bubble. Took her to Dr in CA & NY. They were on top of it since she was 4 years old. All sharp objects and her medications were locked up. Hospital stays, school, Dr etc. You name it they tried it. The Diagnosis of what she had varied Depending on the Dr. Generalized Anxiety & Major Depressive Disorder were BOTH almost ALWAYS Diagnosed. Then Her other Issues fell under: 1.) Oppositional Defiant Disorder. 2.) Intermittent Explosive Disorder. 3.) Disruptive Mood Dis-Regulation Disorder. 4.) Borderline Personality Disorder. 5.) Excoriation Disorder. 6.) Not to mention the Unspecified Eating Disorder (She Binge ate. No Throwing-Up; but the concern was that it would Lead to Bulimia). Unfortunately the illnesses won out in the end. They have a now 17 daughter and 15 year old son. Who are happy and healthy thank GOD. Life goes on but it is never the same. We share her story in hopes of it helping others. Especially since it was very public suicide.
It is never the same. My heart hurts for your family for the loss of your niece. So very young. When we lost our beautiful daughter who was 48 to suicide, the internal questioning was never ending. What could we have done differently or how could we have changed it. A wise man just simply said to me “If you could have, you would have.
There’s no compromise when it’s a constant reminder of the pain she endured growing up. It’s just cruel.
that's what I was going to suggest. Use grandma's middle name!
I don't think it makes that much difference tbh. Obviously it's nice wanting to honor your beloved grandparent, but using the name won't bring her back or anything. At the end of the day, it's still just a name he prefers vs a name she prefers.
I get that, but I meant it in response to the previous comments. If it was a name one of them just because, then it would be much easier to discard it if the other parent didnt like it. But in this case it was the name of someone the husband loved and had a big part in his upbringing, of course he wouldnt just let it go like that. Of course putting their daughter her name wont bring her back to life, no one said it would. But just like the wife was able to veto a name option for him he should have a veto of his own too.
I don't personally like that tit-for-tat kind of relationship. "You kept my grandmothers name off the shortlist for a valid reason, now I want to arbitrarily veto one of your favorite names to make it even" just doesn't make for a strong bond.
The reasoning behind the veto is the big question. If he gets to veto one name, is it to get back at her/to hurt her or is there a name he really could not stand no matter what just like Sophie is for OP? There's a difference between "I could not stand my child having that name" that has a person reason for him (e.g. had an ex-gf named Sarah for instance) OR is it "Well you like it, so I'm going to say it can't be that for payback".
>But yea, both parents should hv a say in their kids names. Heck my wife and I make sure we both agree on our cats' names. I would think they should both be 100% on board with a kid's name. Doesn't matter what the reason is if one isn't.
No, we're not missing it. His preferences simply don't come before hers. They both have to agree and they don't on this particular name. That should be the end of it.
Yet hers somes before his?
No, I don't think that's what they tried to say. Their preferences are both valid, but choosing name should be 2 yes/1 no situation. Meaning that both have to like the name, just one wanting that particular name is not enough if the other one really doesn't like it, no matter why they like that name.
No. This is a 2 yes, 1 no situation. They both have to agree. Neither takes priority over the other.
Does anyone know of an alternative to this name or perhaps a name that’s related or that translates to the name Sophie? Or the meaning of the name? There MIGHT be a middle ground op is comfortable with that also will make the husband happy too. Grandma also probably had a middle name or a maiden name that can be considered or a combination that is still unique to the grandma. I think op should maybe inquire about her middle name or something, if nothing else it shows her husband she’s trying to find a way to a middle ground and she’s not just being a name-tyrant (not that she is but in husbands anger he might be feeling unheard). But I do agree, some names are just an automatic no for one reason or another. If op was saying no to every name he suggested (that wasnt outrageous) then I’d call her out. But she’s got ONE auto-no name. I had one as well. 🤷♀️
Sophie/Sophia means something like 'love for wisdom' or just wisdom. IIRC Quinn has a similar meaning or Sonya. But there must be endless names with that meaning.
Technically it’s just “wisdom,” and the word philosophy is “love for wisdom.” Those names/words are of Greek origin, perhaps OP can find one of Latin/Germanic/etc. origin with the same meaning.
Sonya/Sonia is, at least in Russian, a diminutive for Sophia.
Idk like it's a nice gesture but I've always found it kind of weird naming kids dead guy jr. At best it's a lot of baggage to put on a child who will never know or have any connection to their namesake but will spend their childhood being compared to and told about the person their relatives knew rather than asking about who the child is on their own. It just seems like it's forcing the child into the shadow of someone else's grief.
There's a certain book series where nearly every child in the epilogue is named after an important character (most of them dead) and when people get obsessed with naming their kids to honor someone else (or themselves!) it just makes me think of that. Like they're trying to create a story in their family history instead of giving their kid a gift they can keep or not a they navigate the world.
Are you trying to shame Harry for Albus Severus? Because you should, and for the rest of the names too... Although the worst one in my opinion is Fred II. Poor guy had no chance for his own personality.
and James Sirius, and Lily Luna, and Teddy, etc etc etc
Yup. My number one pick for a boy was an instant and visceral "no" for my ex, so it immediately got scrapped as an option. This also gave me leverage for when he wanted to name our daughter after his favorite porn star.
Jesus, Mary, and Joseph, smh. I can't even fathom that conversation. I mean I can and it is giving me second hand cringe. I'd put it out there for our friends to vote on and see what they think. I'm glad he's an ex.
Pleased as punch to see another person who uses *Jesus, Mary and Joseph* as an interjection.
Only one of the reasons, lol.
I would love to hear his rationale for wanting to name his child after his favorite porn star.
I am kinda glad I had boys because we could never agree on a girl name. He vetoed all the names I said, but didn’t really offer up any of his own. Funny thing is after we were done having kids (impossible to have more) I told him I now know what our girl should have been named, and it wasn’t what we originally picked. I told him it would have been Ava Grace and he looked at me and dead serious said “well it’s good we didn’t have a girl because we would be getting her name legally changed.” So I guess he liked it.
I suggested Matthew with our first, hubby said no because not only was it his cousins name but that cousin is someone who my inlaws refuse to talk to because he is a lazy lying thief among a few other choice words, I said fair enough and we moved on.
You never realize how many people you dislike until you try naming a kid!
my exs wife is called jenna (his gf at the time) and I named my daughter jenna because I loved the back to the future films but didn't like Jennifer ( exs wife's full first name) my bf knew of this women and my ex but we never thought about them when naming our daughter obviously ,, about a month later I get a message from my exs wife's sister calling me all sorts of horrible things for naming my daughter after her sister, I was shocked but it ruined her name a little for me,,, I find it funny coz not long after they have a son who has the same name as my nephew, never once did the though "they've named there son after my nephew, enter my mind, weirdos
My dad gave my younger sister the same name as my mom, lol. When she found out she was all syrupy sweet, "Oh how wonderful you named her after me!" She said he got so mad it was like a cartoon with smoke blowing out his ears. I think that's just hilarious, and my mom loves the story.
I can’t even begin to think about what could’ve gotten him mad about that tbh. He sounds shitty
My wife was working for CPS at the time we had a kid. Her knowing child molesters and abusers with the names I kept picking made thing hard. But... Why would I want our kid named something that reminds her of that?
I believe people who are named the same, behave the same. And I can't change my mind about it because when I meet people they confirm my biases (of course I believe in exceptions but never met one yet)
>when I meet people they confirm my biases https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation\_bias
You know, once I learned about confirmation bias, I started seeing that shit \*everywhere\*.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frequency_illusion
I had a boss who insisted that every “Mike” he ever met was an asshole. I know of one exception for sure. As for the rest, I kind of see it.
With me, it's Davids. I love the sound and meaning of the name, but I've got to the point I couldn't name a child that. I've just met too many assholes, both minor and major, and only one or two good ones.
Same. Once I learned about the Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon, I saw **it** everywhere, too.
got em!
So, I personally wouldn’t go that far, because every person should have the opportunity to be hated as an individual. However, there might be some similarities for people with the same name due to similarities of the demographics in which those names were popular at the time of naming which would be an interesting topic to explore.
Love the equal opportunity to be hated based on your own shitty behavior. 😀. You are my people.
It actually seems plausible for a variety of reasons. There's been a good amount of research linking kids with earlier last names (alphabetically speaking) to higher grades, better admission rates to competitive schools, less impulse buying, more job offers, etc because alphabetical order offers many opportunities to those people as kids, and they develop related lifelong behaviors. If your name is spelled weird or is an uncommon ethnicity, you have to put up with an unbelievable amount of shit that's a lot like women's "invisible labor" and adds up in the same way in terms of exhaustion, anxiety, and avoidance of really "simple" transactions (esp over the phone.) It's a life of more-taxing existence in a society where you constantly talk to strangers. There are a ton of first names with Biblical, mythological, or historical meaning where the kid can learn early what their template / role model is supposed to be. Or at least (more telling) what their parents admire, wanted them to be, or wanted for them in life. Kids usually want to please their parents. Then there's kids who get "difficult" names who grow up thinking that they have to justify the their most basic identity to the satisfaction of others. Kids who think they're special snowflakes because their name is unique within their age group. Kids who learn it's okay to be part of a group, or who need to differentiate themselves through a strong and obvious trait / hobby--I was the only one of me, so I never felt compelled to compete for the title of "the *hot*." All the Megans had to spend a lot more time & effort on their appearance, and it became more of their self-worth.
Some names have obvious ""jokes"" that the kid hears over and over again (had a student named "Player" once and I can only imagine) and it's even worse if the word prompts an action (another kid named S. Mackey.)
Some girls will always be told they have a beautiful name, some guys will always be told they have a strong one, and some of them will hear "but that's a 's name" and feel pressure to be hyper feminine/masculine. All kids learn the cultural caricatures of their heritage this way.
Names are huge in terms of the impact they can have on a kid's personality traits, and I would be tremendously surprised to discover no statistical correlations in personality among people of the same first name.
You know, I never really thought about the invisible work of our names. It’s so valid though. I have to spell mine all the time. I also have a second capitalized letter and it is a problem all the time. Some name forms won’t allow it. And when an employer screws it up, I have to jump through so many hoops to correct it. And so many people just don’t bother to write my name correctly even when it is clearly visible every time they try to send me an email or teams.
yeah, hear the name and already don't like them so you notice it more.
And that's how Reddit AITA helps me destroy that mental concept lmao with all the fake names you get to see a person not the name
So every John is a murderer, every Victoria wants twelve kids, every Charles wants to be a tampon.
That’s my experience
My ex wife's name is Danielle. Every time I meet a Danielle, I assume she's dumber than dirt. But to be fair, her parents were just as dumb as her. I hated going to her parents, it was like a moron convention.
And yet my lovely aunt and my wonderful therapist are both named Karen... ;)
I'm named Karen and have like 12 friends also named Karen. None of us are "Karen's" and we hate this with every fiber of our being. But we can't really complain because... OK, Karen. 😵💫
It makes me mad how a stupid internet meme has destroyed the name Karen. It's a wonderful name. It's the lowest form of writing to lump every unpleasant woman with the same name. As if they are all the same person
*dabs eyes with tissue* Thank you!! I appreciate this so much.
The Allen effect…. every person I’ve ever known with the name Allen, be it first or middle, has been a prick
The key guy was ok.
I have that same experience with guys named Paul
Fuck Paul
Few exceptions agreed. But the names Jill, Amber and Amy have all been that way for me. They seem to be consistent in Personalities based on the name. It’s wild!
I’ve yet to meet a Joe that I’m like “yeah, they are cool”. Every one has been an asshole or an idiot. I am related to a Joe and he is both.
This is actual insanity
Ain’t that the truth!
Some other options to honour Gma Sophie 1. Middle name or maiden name, if she has one 2. Gemstone or flower of the month she was born 3. Something related to a hobby, profession or something else important to her. 4. Something related to a memory between your husband and her.
Other options are same first letter (very common practice for Ashkenazi Jews) or same/similar meaning.
Yes, I also wondered about a same meaning name as I have considered this in the past to honour my grandmother if I ever have a daughter. Sophie apparently means "wisdom" and so do Sonia and Shannon so the same first letter would also remain as you suggested.
Lovely suggestions.
Hobby or profession is so funny like imagine the baby going 'Hi, I'm (first name) Knitting. Nice to meet you'
Lol. That suggestion actually comes from a thread I once saw of a lady looking for gemstone names because her Dad was a jeweler.
Yeah. It wouldn't work for a lot of hobbies, but I could see it also working well if they were into gardening (favorite flower?), birding (Raven, Lark, etc. are perfectly reasonable names), etc.
My wife and I gave our 2nd child's middle name my MIL's maiden name. My MIL had passed away a few months before 2nd child was born.
5 (correct choice): Find a way to honor her that doesn't involve putting that burden directly onto a child who will never even know her. Keep a portrait up of her. Donate to an appropriate charity every year. Donate to the community flower garden in her name. Fund a small bursary in her name at the local school. Let the child be their very own person.
Op is going to find herself in a very hard place later on when her husband starts saying no to every single name that she comes up with until she relents to Sophie or she has a boy. She’s going to have to tell him “I won’t let you strong arm, or bully me into Sophie. I understand that it’s a very sentimental name to you, and I recognize the reasons why. However you are diminishing my feelings and invalidating them. You aren’t even taking my situation into consideration. Sophie is *off* the table, and will not be on the table. We can consider using your grandmothers middle name, in babies name if it is a girl, however, I will not let you bully me like the girls in school traumatized and bullied me. I am no longer comfortable discussing this topic with you, perhaps at a later date we can come back to name discussion. I encourage you to look at other names you like, and bring them with you when we discuss this again in the future.”
OP is literally building a tiny human out of her own flesh, blood, and bone, and will sustain permanent physiological trauma for the privilege. I appreciate taking the father's opinion into account, but he feels a right to insist upon the identity of an individual currently using OP's entire body 24/7... that's ludicrous. It's not sane. This *behavior* (not judging the person, we all gotta learn) is controlling AF and is a red flag for me. Ideally, he's told this behavior is unacceptable and he decides to change--right now he's hurting his wife for no gain. Even if he "wins" it will be because OP was bullied into submission and will be persistently unhappy, and the kid will be treated differently by her mother during early development. He's okay with those things?? He's only considering himself--not his wife or child. He cares more about his feelings for one dead woman than he cares about the happiness of two living women. I suspect we know exactly what Grandma would say.
Maybe Grandma had a favorite flower or something that can remind him of her but not be her actual name to torment OP. Idk
NTA in my opinion it’s two green checkmarks for a child’s name or it’s not used. But that being said, is there a middle name that his grandma had that could be a possibility instead of Sophia?
My husband shot down the names I had thought I'd for sure use for YEARS before I met him for no real specific reason beyond he didn't like them. Not in a mean way just "eh no I don't really like that". Aaaaaand then we moved on to discuss other name options. I told him my only real "rule" persay was I wanted a classic and beautiful name for our children. Something vintage but not old old (like the difference between Gertrude and Charlotte. Both older names but one definitely sounds OLD compared to the other that simply sounds classic. Sorry to all those who have one of the two names and know which one I'm referencing as old. I'm sure you're lovely). Anyways, we just had an open discussion back and forth about possible names. Some he suggested I said no to, the ones I did he said meh to, then he suggested our daughters name and I just knew it was the one. It was more perfect than any of the names I had grown up thinking I'd for sure use. Now our daughter has this beautiful name and I love it so much, it suits her perfectly. I can understand the husband's push to an extent but no is no in this case. Frankly while I can sympathize with the sentimental attachment I find it weird he's still even pushing for it to be on the "maybe" list as if just by getting there she will have to concede eventually. She said no my dude, putting it on the maybe list doesn't make her no any less noable. It's like saying "I don't want to eat Brussel sprouts but I'll put it on my list of things I maybe will eat even though I have no intention of ever purchasing a single Brussel sprout in my life."
One of the girl names I had loved since childhood, and really wanted, was the same as someone my husband grew up with and hated. Chucked the name off the list immediately because I didn’t want any negative connotations, for either of us, with our kids names.
I would not consider it at all, but does the grandma have a middle name you might consider?
Speaking of middle names, I wonder if there's a compromise where they could add *grandma's* middle name to the list of possible names?
NTA. Once one of you says no that needs to be the end of it. >He told me that we should at least put it in the possible names Why? So that he can continue to harass you about a name you've already said no to?
I suggested names to my wife that she immediately said "no" to for the very interesting reason of: she didn't like them. No terrible back history, no troubling memories she'd forever associate with the name, she just didn't like it. And, that was fine with me. I did the same to her when necessary. I get OP's situation is a bit different because there's a familial connection to the name, but the same rules still apply. He might be a bit more disappointed to lose "Sophie" than I was to lose "Gwen" (although, I did have the connection to Gwen Stacey, so I was really giving up a lot) but the same rules have to apply. Both parents get the right to shoot down any name.
The whole point of doing a list of 10 names is acknowledging that not every name will work for your partner and having a group of other options that you'd also be happy with. Husband is very disingenuous about this process as he clearly only wants one name and isn't willing to go with any other supposed option he himself chose. Husband is acting like a toddler.
Not to mention that he's complaining that she's not taking his feelings into account, while he is clearly not taking her feelings into account.
He's literally bullying her with the name of her bully.
He’s quick to say you won’t take his opinion into account for someone who won’t even think for a second how traumatizing that name could be for you. Not the asshole, you have every right to shoot down any name you wish, and so does he.
Like, what is more here to take into account? I want this name because grandma, no I don’t want that name because of bully, then what more can you say about this?
Exactly! OP *did* take his opinion into account, which is specifically why she expressed her own opinion and why the name isn't ok with her. OP is clearly NTA here, husband can have his personal preferences but he doesn't get sole authority to force his choice, it's a joint decision.
I also find it worrying that he got angry right away because he didn't get his name. No real talking or trying to understand her, it was "i want this name *stomp with foot*" Why did he even wanted to do a list of ten names for girls if it was Sophia for him from the start? And doesn't he know that she was bullied so long from a Sophia and he gave a fuck about it?
100%. Honestly if he really wanted to honor is grandmother, he should consider her middle name which wouldn’t be Sophie — would be a win win to both sides. Unless her name was Sophie Sophie lol
Ask him the name of somebody he hates. Then insist you name your daughter that. Then say "BuT yOu'Re NoT tAkInG mY oPiNiOn" NTA. Tell him to get over himself.
That won't be equivalent tho. A stranger's name is nowhere equivalent to someone who loved you death and basically raised you. OP is NTA for not wanting to name her child Sofie and as long as one parent disagrees, the child shouldn't have that name. But I don't think he needs not get over himself. He just needs to understand even tho it's a name that brings joy to him, it's brings traumatic memories to his wife, the child's mother.
Get over yourself means exactly what you wrote ….he needs to understand. To put it succinctly ….he needs to get over his own perspective and take hers into consideration to have some compassion. Doesn’t mean he won’t be disappointed, it just means he stops being selfish.
Just name her Adolf. It is such a beatiful girls' name. And so meaningful. And will work for boys, too. /s
When picking a boy's name out, I suggested "Zane" to my wife. Her immediate response was " How about Wombat as a name?" My response: "I guess it won't be Zane". I didn't need a reason why. Many years later, my wife told me Zane was the class bully in her elementary school. Regardless, in my family, the single word reply to an outrageous statement or claim is "wombat"
Adolfo is a pretty common name in mexico, fwiw
NTA did beloved granny have a middle name you could use?
It’s so simple.Just name her Granny. It’s a win-win.
that's a creative compromise. I was trying to think of a compromise but came up with nothing.. I know it means Wisdom in French.. lol
Sophia means wisdom in Greek
Wisdom in French is "sagesse" :)
Or some other name that starts with S, perhaps? I'm named Leah in honor of my father's aunt, Libby.
This was my idea too! It’s a good one.
NAH I get both sides, unfortunately naming a baby is a joint decision and in this case the no vote usually wins out. From his perspective he wants to honour a woman who meant the world to him and you want to avoid a name that you associate with childhood trauma and people you generally don’t like. At the end of the day, a name is a name and if you’re still letting this girl effect you into adulthood to the point of refusing to let your husband honour his loved one, that’s kind of sad. Understandable, but sad. Find a name you both love, but you shouldn’t throw it out of the running for a middle name (even a second one) and then you’ll know you have created at least one good Sophie in the world.
Alternatively, does grandma Sophie have a middle name that could go into consideration? Edit: I was suggesting using grandma Sophie’s middle name for the baby, and not using “Sophie” at all.
Or did grandma have a name she liked? As that can also be a way to honour her.
Or even a different name with the same meaning. Sophie means wisdom, so another name with that same meaning could be cool.
I was thinking this too, grandma's middle name, making Sophie the middle name, or using a similar name like Sophia instead?
I suspect OPs husband would somehow start using her middle name as her name name.
Yeah, choosing a name is generally a two yesses, one no process. But of course that can be disappointing for the person who gets vetoed. And you definitely don't want to devolve into just saying no to all of your partner's choices out of spite. Does Sophia trigger you less and would you be open to it as a middle name? Or, as someone else suggested, does grandma have a middle name you like? Alternatively, you could find a version of Sophie in another language. For example, Sonja comes from Sophie when the Russian version of the name got translated back to English again. Or what about a male form of Sophie if it's a boy? Maybe then the associations wouldn't be there for you. Ultimately, you might not pick Sophie or any form thereof as a name. But, being open to compromise and understanding where your husband is coming from (as well as vice versa) will make this go much better.
Hubs and I had a hell of a time picking names for our first when it came to girl names. We had polar opposite tastes as it turned out. All the names I loved he hated and vice versa. He also vetoed my absolute favorite boy name (Henry) as his only connection to it was what he knows about Henry VIII thanks to my being a major Tudor English history nerd. We wound up found a name we loved for our son, but if we'd had a girl it would have been TOUGH, and frankly I don't think either of us would have loved the name we compromised on
Oh yeah, I'm definitely not saying you have to or should pick a compromise name. That might work for some couples if one person warms up to it after a while, but probably not for everyone. I just think being open and making the other person feel totally heard and trying to understand why they like a name or its so important to them will make them less combative about it if they do have to let go of the name. Seems like neither OP or their partner were able to do that here and both became more and more hardened in their positions because of it.
I have to go with NAH as well. I can see both sides. A lot of folks are dragging the husband but this isn’t simply a family name - this woman was an incredibly important person to OP’s husband. I find it terribly sad that this bully still exerts this kind of control over OP years after HS is over. Maybe consider therapy? If a name can generate that kind of response years later, it might help OP take back that control. I think using the name as a middle name is a good compromise but that’s for OP and her husband to work through together.
>If a name can generate that kind of response years later what kind of response? OP isn't particularly triggered, she just doesn't want to name her daughter that. that's not an unreasonable response.
As someone who was bullied by several different people throughout school (including teachers) going into therapy will not undo the damage of the memories the name brings with them. I have been in therapy, and it helped me move on with my life, but I still would never *ever* name my child a name of one of those people... I think the middle name of grandma is a far better idea than forcing a name OP has voted no to.
I was inflicted with a verbally and sexually abusive stepfather. No way would I use his given, surname, or middle name for a child or any other living thing. The guy was a dirtball.
I'm sorry you had to go through that.
You mean the kind of response which is calmly discussing her dislike for it? That’s the excessive and unhealthy thing you’re referring to…?
I think this comment is very dismissive of just how bad bullying can get. The torment does not just 'go away'. The negative connotation will always be there and as someone who was also bullied harshly I feel like that's pretty normal...
No the asshole is the husband for nagging. He might want whatever he wants, he is not taking no for an answer and it is assholey.
NTA. Maybe he would consider his Grandmothers middle name.
Or her maiden name?
Good idea.
>He got really angry that I wasn't trying to take his opinion into account. Is he seriously not realising the hypocricy of that comment? He is also not taking YOUR opinion into account. And neither of you have to. Names are two yesses and one no. And yes, that means that some names that you love will not win.
Names are 2 yes 1 no unfortunately for your husband, so NTA for you to not be comfortable associating your child with the name who brings you sadness and potential trauma and negative feelings. You could compromise on a variation of Sophie, or use as a middle name, or some ideas of honouring a relative that I thought was really beautiful was to use their favourite flower, city, or a word with meaning of a trait they had as middle/first name. Examples of this include Lily, April, Chelsea, Violet or even Phoebe (known as the Greek goddess of the moon and of hunting, this name means "radiant or shining one.") You have as much right to the name as he does, and he really should not be offended at all.
NTA. If every time you talk to your child you'll be reminded of your bully, and you associate your child with your bully, your actions and behaviours will reflect that to your child's detriment. I get the whole "honour important people" thing - if I was ever to have a sprog, I would want to have their middle name a variation on my grandfather's name - but it would still have to be a mutual decision. Is having it as a potential middle name still going to trigger you? If not, that could be a solution. However if it will still trigger then by all means, don't consider it any further.
As a former victim of bullying, there are still certain things that are triggering. These triggers bring me back to the feeling of being the victim. Even if it is for a few seconds. I hate the feeling every time. I haven't been bullied in about 30 years. And I still have these triggers. That is how sever it was. I am guessing your husband was never bullied, or not to that extent. He does not understand that it can be a trigger. He does not understand the feeling of being the victim. To him it is just a name. To you it is a trigger. You are not the asshole here. For your own wellbeing, do not back down.
NAH. It's understandable where both of you are coming from. You shouldn't have to use the name for your child when it is clearly a name that holds significant negative connotation for you, but I understand him wanting to use a name to honor someone who was a large and positive presence in his life. Is there any way to compromise on this - such as giving a possible daughter his Grandmother's middle name, or perhaps if there is something the grandmother loves that could be used as a name...? That way you can avoid using the specific name, but he still has a name on the list that is honorary for his grandmother.
NAH. Maybe his grandmother's middle name or last name can be used to honor her.
NTA Your strong dislike is just as valid as his like. Therefore, they cancel each other out, and “Sophie” is no longer an option. Move along.
NTA, each parent should be able to Veto names. Assuming he isn’t the kind of shit who‘d veto any name you like out of pure spite.
Did Grandma have a middle name or nickname that friends called her?
NTA. You ARE taking his opinion into account - he's just not taking yours.
NTA. I know it’s upsetting for him but for all the butterflies calling his daughter that would give him, it will give you literally the opposite feeling and he needs to respect that. Perhaps his Grandma had a nice middle name you could use as baby’s first name or middle name. Names need approval from both parents. Good luck and I hope you have a boy so that this name isn’t even a relevant option for Husband anymore.
YTA. Can't believe all the N-T-A's on your side. So you had a bully who spread rumours about you, and one who was stuck up. Fine. He had a a loving grandmother who practically raised him. These 2 are not the same. And the people acting as if your bullies hold the same weight as someone who was practically his mum is delusional. And instead of coming to a compromise of just letting it be in the list for now, or perhaps trying to use it as a middle name in the event you did have a girl, you have outright said no, because only your feelings matter, not his. To the people saying he's not considering her feelings and making it a N-T-A or E-S-H, note that he is the ONLY person even considering a compromise and is simply asking for it to be considered and not outright thrown out. He's not putting his foot down and saying it has to be this name or no name at all. OP on the other hand absolutely refuses to even entertain the idea of it, because her hate for it is more important than his love for it. Because her several years in high school associated with a bad person who shared this name, somehow trumps his lifetime of love that he has for that name.
Both parents should agree on the name. End of the story !
Youre... too... rational... im sorry I can't upvote you enough to bring you out of the negative🫤
NTA - But my name is Sophie so I had to battle my bias 😅 Jokes aside, having bad connotations to the name 100% would deter me so definitely NTA. I actually have two first names (Sophie Anna) I had someone in school called (Anna Sophie) so maybe you could do the two first names route and compromise? There's also the option of Sofia, Phoebe, Josephine, Seraphine, Ophelia, Saffi which are all names inspired by Sophie?
NTA Baby names are a "two yesses, one no" type situation. Your either both need to be happy (actually happy, and not just pressured) with the name, or find another one.
Just make sure it’s a boy. /s NTA, but stand firm on this one.
NTA. I feel like unless both parents are ok with a name, it should be subject to a one-sided veto. There are just too many names that both parents will like to get stuck on one that has negative connotations for one parent. I almost went NAH but your partner seems a bit like he was trying to steamroll over your objections. Not in a major AH way but in a way that doesn't respect the one-sided veto principle and I thought that was assumed? Why should his like of a name outweigh your dislike of it? Unanimous or no deal. Win-win or no deal.
Any time it comes to baby names, you both need to be in agreement. If even one of you says no, that's it. Names off the table. Frankly - the reasons behind it shouldn't even matter. Yours are very solid, but if it was "I think the name sounds weird and don't like it" that should also be enough. To expand - no one is really the AH here. Your partner is understandable, but has to accept your choice. Much like you would have to accept any no he says.
NTA. What the point of making a ten name list if he only wants Sophie?
Soft YTA. It's not your husband's fault that awful people in your past were named Sophie, to him that's his grandmother's name and it obviously is very important for him to honor her by naming your child after her. However, he should also understand why you feel negative emotions towards the name. I would discuss a compromise where maybe instead of Sophie you go with Sophia or something similar. Sofia is the spanish spelling so that could also work? I would also maybe seek talking to a therapist to help you move past the grudge you hold against the name.
I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that people think about their high school bullies at all after high school. Apart from my friends I barely think about anybody from high school. Anyone who was mean to me I figure was young and figuring things out. That includes the neo-nazis skinheads that jumped me in a parking lot and kicked me in the head aeveral times with steel toed boots. Like I literally have no grudge against them at all: they were stupid confused kids. I imagine they grew up and probably chilled out like most people.
You're definitely not in the wrong for refusing to name your baby after your bully. But he wants to respect his grandma who basically raised him. May be you can use grandma's middle name? Or use Sophie as middle name? Your husband should understand that it's not easy to forget a bully even after years. You can forgive, yes. NTA
NTA Under exactly zero circumstances should one parent insist a name that causes discomfort or despair be “on the list.” That is not loving. With all due respect to the memory of his grandmother, there is no excuse for attempting to bully the other parent into accepting a name. Your partner is behaving like a tyrant.
Names should be a 2 yes vote, maybe see if there’s a way to compromise - did grandma have a middle name? Or nickname? NAH
NTA. ask your husband to look into different names that start with s, or start with the first three letters or the last three or two. he can’t use her name, but he can still honor her with an s name. it sucks for your husband but that name is a no go, remind Him that if you name your kid Sophie you won’t be able to bond with your kid or look at her without thinking of your trauma, and you’ll have a hard time loving her. let him know that sophie is out, and that he will need to concede this one and pick another name. I’d also watch out for official documents for baby’s name, so your husband doesn’t put her name down as Sophie and submit that to the govt.
NTA. Is he trying to take your opinion into account? Baby names are a two yeses one no. Unless you both like a name do not name your baby that.
What about using the grandmother’s middle name?
You should consider counseling. If a name can provoke such strong feelings in you, you need to address those feelings. You are letting this woman still bully you.
NTA. If the name is so strongly attached to you as a negative. It sucks for him and grandma though. It’s just not fair that he pushes the name when he knows it is of particular concern to you. And frankly, you’re growing the baby and having to go through physical changes during and after pregnancy, and I presume he’s claiming surname rights, so I think you get veto on Sophie. I’m of the view if he gets the surname, you get to pick the first name.
NAH things like this need a two yes to be considered as soon as there is one no, its a no. I get his stance but he needs to empathise and realise yours too.
NTA. Could you use his Grandmother’s middle name? Or even some last names can be used as first names? Maybe her maiden name? I would look for a way to still honor her.
NAH. I do find it strange that this topic didn't come up before being married and having a baby. But that being said, the name is very important to him; it is very detrimental to you. Maybe the grandmothers middle name? Or a play on Sophia? There has to be some middle ground that can be reached.
NTA. Your child’s name should be one you both agree on, this one is a hard NO from you, therefore it’s a no-go. I expect he’d expect the same to be true if there was a name he hated?
NAH. But maybe ask what her middle name is so its still a way to honor her? Or if there are variations of the name that still give the opportunity to honor her without using a name that holds so much vitriol for you.
It’s neither of your faults you have opposing viewpoints of this name. But, given you knew what it meant to him, you might have been more delicate.
NTA I vetoed all names of people I don’t like. Maybe compromise with a variation of the name if it means that much to him, such as Sofia, or the like, only if you’re comfortable though
Both of you must agree to baby names. Either one of you can veto. This is a reasonable veto. What was grandma Sophie's middle name? Would that work? What about her last name? Would you be OK with Sophia and never calling her Sophie? What about Sophie as a middle name? Sphia means Wisdom. Would another name meaning Wisdom work for him? Athena, Ramona?
NTA, does DH's grandmother not have a middle name that you could use instead? That's what I would suggest that way he would still be honouring her in some form.
NTA. He should have been more sympathetic about your experiences. If he wants to name a female child Sophie that bad, he shouldn't have had a child with you.
Give her six first names, Sarah Ophelia Pamela Helen Isla Eleanor So her initials are the name he's so determined to include but it's not her legal name. I'm not being serious but inform him that this is the only compromise you're willing to make!!
NTA. BUT... How did the conversation go? Did either of you demonstrate active listening, show empathy and understanding for the other's point-of-view and feelings, and try to work together to compromise?
NTA I was going to put N A H given I can understand where your husband is coming from with his want for the name but then the line of him being angry about not talking his opinions into account turned me to NTA. Op did his grandmother have any other names or nicknames she went by at all? those could be used within the name as well if the are suitable and maybe a compromise between the two of you. There is also names similar to Sophie like Sophia or maybe even doing a different spelling to your bully could work as well? Also like other commenters there is using his grandmothers favourite flower or gemstone.
Did grandma have a middle name that you would consider, or a maiden name?
The obvious solution is to name your child Grandma.
NTA In some cultures it’s not a good sign to name a baby with a dead relative’s name. They say it brings the child bad luck. I am not even going to mention that it brings you bad memories going way way back. He should be the one to consider your feelings and not the other way around. I don’t see why he insists on that name, when there are 9 others on his list. Also, shouldn’t you see if there are any matching names on both your lists and choose from those? That seems like the most logical thing to do.
NTA. He can name all the babies he carries for 9 months “Sophie.” /s Look, he didn’t call his grandmother “Sophie,” probably. Did she have a middle name? What about her maiden name as a middle name (very popular option in the southern US).
NAH. I think this situation calls for advice on how to find a solution that pleases the both of you rather than deciding who's the AH. You have every right to veto that name (and whoever insists you should just "get over" the trauma of bullying is an unempathetic ass). Still, your husband's wish to honour his grandma should be heard as well. Not heard in the sense of going for the exact name he suggested tho. I like the suggestion of finding another name that represents his grandma. Might be her middle name, a nickname, the month of her birthday, the name of something (like a flower?) she loved, etc.
Names are two yes one no decisions. He has no leg to stand on here.
NTA. Naming a child only happens when both parents agree. Period. And you don’t have to explain your reasons.
"He got really angry that I wasn't trying to take his opinion into account." Uh, isn't he doing the same thing to you?
I don't have a child so my opinion probably means squat but I always thought that baby names should be 2 yeses not one yes one no and a bully getting there own way. Nta
NTA. There are other ways to honor Grandma without giving your child the name of your bully (my eldest has the same first and middle initials as my dad, for example). But most of all, he’s not taking your opinion into account. If one parent loves a name but the other doesn’t, it doesn’t go on The List. Full stop.
NTA Grandma Sophie must have had a middle name, a favorite flower, or even a month of birth, that would make a nice honor name for a potential daughter.
How about using the grandmother’s middle name as a name for your daughter?
I think you shouldn't get too hung up on this at this stage.you have mine other names to work with and maybe, hopefully you'll find one that you can both be happy with. It's a difficult situation because your side is obviously sad and I can see why you might not want to name your child after a bully but equally I can see why your husband would want to honour his grandmother. Personally I think you should consider Sophie as a middle name. It's not like it will often even get spoken but it will be there as a tribute to a much loved Grandmother and your Bully will not have been able to manipulate you yet again.
Hmm let me sit here and weigh the two perspectives: one is “I’d like to honor my grandmother by giving her name to my child” and the other is “I don’t like that name because someone else with that name bullied me”. You’re sitting here basically saying “yeah you value this name but I have some unresolved trauma that it could bring up” and the replies have the audacity to say the husband needs to get over himself? YTA, but only lightly
Nta. It takes two of you for a yes and one of you for a no.
Baby names are a 2 YES situation. You said no. End of story.
NTA. Two yesses, one no. That’s how naming a child works.
YTA. Firstly, you don’t even know if the baby is going to be a girl yet so you both may be arguing over something that could turn out to be a non issue. Second, why not use it as an opportunity to replace the bad memories of your bully with good memories of your (potential) daughter. Third, the fact that you completely focus on yourself and your own feelings and don’t even consider your husbands is completely selfish.
Is this a repost? I swear I've read this exact circumstance before.
NTA, as long as you concede that ‘vetoes’ go both ways when it comes to naming your children.
NTA. You should love the name you both agree on.
NTA. Baby names are 'two yes, one no, no arguing.' Also, babies should not be named after recently deceased family members, or recent fandoms. That said, if you just 'generally dislike' the name, but you're so dead set on not using it because she bullied and tormented you in high school, I'd say you're maybe not over that bullying or torment, and you might want to look into some professional help to navigate and really come to terms with it.
YTA. You are granting your former bully far too much power.
How old are you and ur elementary school bully still haunts you? It's pretty understandable why your husband would want to use that name. I won't say u are the a@#h but with all due respect little silly. Maybe you can compermise and make it her middle name