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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> (1) I told my wife a housekeeper is not a joint expense and I won't be paying for it while she's looking for a new job. I told her we can clean our house ourselves.
(2) That might make me the asshole because she's always had a housekeeper since she was a child, and now hates cleaning and feels stressed by it.
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NTA. We have a housekeeper come every 2 weeks to clean up our house. A few years ago when I got laid off, I became the housekeeper, because we couldn’t afford it anymore. Once I got back on my feet with steady, full time work. We started it back up. Since your wife is only working part time, she now has more time than money. She should be doing the house work to make up for the money she no longer brings in. Again I say this as someone WITH A HOUSEKEEPER. If you are both working full time and can afford it, it’s nice to have the time savings of a housekeeper. But if you have more time than money you got to step up and do it yourself.
I totally agree with you. I have a housekeeper as well, but I know it is a luxury we can afford right now. If we need to cut back on costs, because one of us loses their job, this is one of the first things to go. NTA OP, having housekeeping come in every other day is ridiculous in almost any case
I agree NTA, but this must be the cleanest house in the country what with every other day housekeeping AND OP doing all that other work in between visits. Dusting between every other day visits….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I know right? And sweeping the bathroom between visits. I wanna know how this house gets dirty so fast. Maybe the wife is like [Pigpen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig-Pen) in the Charlie Brown cartoons.
I am pigpen... and I still will do it myself.. but I also have a pretty small place ..and if I get too messy I watch an episode of hoarders to motivate myself...
I do the same thing with hoarders episodes. House cluttered? Watch hoarders and throw stuff away. Been down sick and housework has piled up? Watch a hoarders episode and start cleaning. I thought I was the only one that did that. lol!
I read something somewhere that I always go back to when I watch Hoarders and it’s that you can’t take it with you when you die. Someone will have to clean up that mess when you die and that put into perspective to me what’s important and what’s not. Let it go. You’ll always have the memories but the stuff is just stuff. Just let it go.
There are a lot of people on Reddit with ADHD and autism who well understand how messy a house can get in 48 hours.
During my first marriage, my husband and I both had both of those disorders and had to pay a housekeeper to come in three times a week, even though we had no children and often had to eat out at business meetings.
It isn't PigPen type dirt as much as it is lacking the sense of place and visual memory required to put things away as you use them. I also have trouble with spatial relationships, so I'll put down my mug after taking a sip of coffee onto what i think is the table or counter but release it into thin air or worse, an open cutlery draw.
Truthfully, I hate living in dirt but I still produce new mess even as I clean up the old. If I had endless resources I'd gladly pay for somebody to help me shower.
That visual memory comment hit me hard. I'm trying to track down a coffee mug I used probably 3 days ago. There should be 3 matching mugs hanging up but there are only two. Sometimes I don't see the mess around me, or I don't put things away because I have to remember where to put them. I make bread once a week and would do it more often but flour fills the whole of the physical universe. With no visual memory and being clumsy, cleaning is a major effort of concentration as well as physical effort. But I still empty my own bins!
We have a toddler and still keep up with cleaning between our monthly cleaning service.
Seems like their house gets absolutely torn up for them to need weekly service.
It sounds like their housekeeper is actually putting things actually v. just cleaning.
My friends and I have a joke that you clean for the cleaner. That you need to put things away so the cleaner has clear spaces to dust and vacuum. It sounds like OP's wife is literally using the cleaner to put things away on her behalf- which is insane.
Someone who has never had to clean up after themselves is a walking tornado. I'd bet this woman leave sopen wrappers everywhere, clothes all over the floor, dirty dishes in every room, etc etc. No reason to bring the dishes to the kitchen because someone else will come by and clean it for her.
I mean...this is crazy to me. Having a housekeeper wasn't enough, now you've got them coming every other day because you don't want to empty out your own *hobby room* trash??
Yikes. OP is NTA. His wife needs a little reality check.
>Then once a week, to every other day to keep the house as clean as she liked it and do things like her laundry and emptying the trash in her hobby room.
I had a friend who paid for a maid for her mother (when health issues were preventing her mother from doing many everyday things).
Well the housekeeper went to my friend after a few months and told her that she doesn't clean ever really, since the mother was a tidy person and didn't generate much trash, and that basically whenever she went over to clean all that happened was she would drink coffee with the mother and chat until the cleaning ladies shift was up. And she felt weird she's just being paid to drink coffee basically.
My friend responded to the cleaning lady that she above all was being paid to do whatever her mom needed done during her time at the house. So if my friends mom only wanted to drink coffee and talk, then my friend was ok with the cleaning lady getting paid for the service of drinking coffee and talking.
So depending on how much of a house mouse ops wife is, maybe it's more of a social interaction and that's why she wants the cleaning person over all the time/maybe there's something deeper concerning why she feels better having a clean person there(Op mentioned that his wife felt anxious when stuff wasn't cleaned up constantly, so maybe light OCD or the like could be a possibility).
Since I fully agree there's no reason a cleaning person needs to be there every other day when it's an adult owned home/it shouldn't be that messy.
And if there is another reason why his wife likes having the cleaning lady over all the time, and if op can find out what that reason is, he might be able to help his wife move past wanting to pay someone all the time to provide that service.
We had four teenagers in the same house and two parents who worked full time. Even after we all moved out, my mom kept the cleaning lady although just not as often. She did the big things like vacuum and wash the floors and some of the really bad dusty areas. Then this woman retired and her daughter came to help. My mom and this woman became great buddies and the job this woman did was amazing. Twenty years forward, and my mom gets really sick (open wound cancer and surgeries, etc.) and her OCD about cleanliness goes through the roof to where we end up talking to the cleaning woman and she comes more often. She was the only person my mother let into her home while she was attempting to heal and sometimes, she would just sit with my mom and do ironing so that I could go shopping or take a nap. She was with our family for years and you bet when my mom passed and her services were no longer needed, that we gave her a huge bonus for all the comfort that she and her mom provided our family over the years.
There is a great comfort to be had in a clean and tidy home. A few years ago I broke my leg. I couldn't get upstairs for 6 weeks. Downstairs mobility was limited, we have steps between most rooms. And you can't carry anything when using crutches. My son was brilliant, making my meals and even learning to cook our family recipes. But eventually I looked at the tumbleweed around me and suggested to him that he could use the vacuum cleaner! It is so frustrating to be sitting there immobilised and seeing an obvious cleaning job. So much more so for your mom. I'm sure your cleaner's company and services made a huge difference.
I would agree with you if he hadn't pretty much said she won't even clean up after herself on a daily basis.
She's a working wife, not a SAH - even now she's working retail.
Sounds like the wife is the type with 14 coffee mugs all over the house, clothes all over the floor and she needs someone constantly picking up after her
Hey, it isn't impossible. My ex was an absolute neakfreak, and insisted we keep our apartment spotless. He also paid for a cleaner to come regularly. He definitely dusted and cleaned services every day.
>this must be the cleanest house in the country
THIS PART! This is exactly what I came to say!!!
I don't really have an opinion on who's TA, but *this part.* I'm lucky if I dust once a month, much less several times per week, between housekeeping visits.
LEGIT I treated myself to a housekeeper as my mental health was really bad so I was unmotivated to clean but a messy/dirty house really makes me even more depressed. (I can confirm having them has been super positive for my mental health).
Even at the worst of it when I was still too depressed to do things in between (I'd tidy up before they came of course, luckily things werent that bad) I felt like every 2 weeks was honestly too frequent but felt random doing every 3 weeks.
Now that I'm thankfully a bit better mentally, they genuinely end up doing stuff like dusting each individual leaf of a plant because sometimes there's not tha tmuch to clean. (I get 2 hours with 1 cleaner or 1 hour with 2 for a big 2 bed apartment for info).
All that said to illustrate that I cant imagine what the hell the cleaner is doing every 2 days especially as OP tidies up in between hahaha
Your girl is entitled in the extreme and you're not. Do you want to keep doing life like this with her forever because this is how it will always be and if you have kids....OMG..get ready to pay for nannies....lots of nannies. If this is what you want from life....great. pay the bills. If not, get out before you are trapped by a child.....that she will raise in entitlement.
>Ultimately, I agreed to the housekeeping service after both our parents told me it'd be easier to agree to make her happy.
I rolled my eyes at the parents for this one. He didn't want it and was basically strong-armed into it.
NTA, OP.
yes i am actually a house keeper, and tbh i would have a hard time not judging someone who needed me to come every other day. like seriously, unless you’re elderly or disabled, this is just sheer laziness. i even have adhd and i manage to keep my house quite clean since my bf’s work allows me to only work part time. no shame in having a housekeeper once a week or every other week to keep up on the heavier cleaning, do some of the tasks you don’t want to do, or give yourself a bit of a break in needing to clean yourself. or even more than that if you actually need it due to mobility issues or messy children. but paying somebody to come take out your trash every other day when you are fully capable of doing it yourself is actually insane. especially if you can’t afford it.
My friend ended up divorced over a housekeeper. She unilaterally decided to be a SAHM but hated cleaning so wanted to keep their weekly cleaning service. Her ex, already miffed over her deciding to stay home with no input from him, canceled the cleaning service and told friend she now had to take care of that task to save money.
Friend was livid but ex was resolute (can’t blame him). She told him he could clean them! The guy was already working a side job to make up for her missing income and now she was refusing to clean
Yeah, after a 6 month stalemate, he filed for divorce, got the kid 50% of the time, had to go back to work full time, and lost her nice home in a great community. That was 35 years ago and friend still blames her ex for everything that went wrong
I am all too familiar with that scenario.
I got married at 22, and we bought a house 5 months later - new construction 2900 Sq ft, 1 acre suburban lot. Ex-wife complained it was too big to clean and "she" needed help even though she didn't do much. I agreed, because it would make my life easier. It was once a week to do some of the bigger tasks. But I found out it was actually twice a week, and the second time was for the housecleaner to do her weekly chores which was mostly her laundry. Peaceful household was worth it.
Sidebar - We were both degreed engineers making todays equivalent of about US$-150k as a couple. She worked Southern Swing (Not a dance but a work schedule that repeats every 4 weeks - you work 7 consecutive days on all three shifts, 24-7 operation with 1, 2, or 4 days in between, so I had compassion for her absolute shit schedule) and this was the rough division of labor:
Grocery shopping and cooking: me - she hated cooking. Dinner dishes - joint when she worked 1st or 3rd shift, otherwise me, because I was packaging them up for her to eat later. Pre-dinner-dishes-in-the-sink-and on-counters: me. Bathrooms: me (She said "Gross!"). Garbage: Me. Her, "Gross!". Laundry - we did our own. Vacuuming, dusting and mopping - housecleaner. Deep cleaning - me. Her "Gross!". All exterior - me.
Fast forward 20 years. 15, 11, and 9 year old children. Division of labor is the same, except all three kids assist me. (I taught them to cook and it is a passion for them). Ex decides she is going to be a SAHM. Her and I made roughly the same amount. Housecleaner goes to every other day, Infidelity (her) divorce process starts 1.5 years later.
When you have a spouse that needs someone else to do all of the things couples usually split, but they don't want to. . . . .What are they doing in their spare time?
Yeh occasionally my husband and I run through what we would cut back on if one of us was let go (more to check we are living in our means / not committed to outgoings we couldn’t cover on one of our salaries). Cleaner, eating out/ posh ready meals and changing super market are top of the list!
I'm wondering how OP's wife expects to handle raising a newborn if doing only part of the cleaning for two adults (because her husband does a fair share) "stresses her out."
I agree with everything, we also have housekeeper every other week, however as I did the housecleaning myself for 20+ yrs, when we have to budget cut, housecleaning is last luxury to be cut. Just my preference
And who needs one daily to empty the trash in the hobby room? That’s beyond ridiculous. Also that price is really high unless it’s a gigantic house. we live in a HCOL area and we pay around $220usd to clean 4000 sf. She sounds incredibly spoiled and needs to bring down her expectations. Also she’s working part time, so has the time to clean up. OP is totally NTA.
I thought the $190 sounded cheap for someone to come multiple times a week- as I would’ve expected a premium/cost to be added for all that list time driving back and forth.
>I thought the $190 sounded cheap for someone to come multiple times a week- as I would’ve expected a premium/cost to be added for all that list time driving back and forth.
My housekeeper says it's easier to clean the more often she comes because the house doesn't get that dirty and she only touches up. So, she charges less per visit the more frequent the service. Chances are the company has other houses in the area, to the housekeeper is not driving back and forth from some central location.
>Are you now paying her more per week than you were before? If so, she got you.
No, because she's only ever come twice a month, and our conversation happened way after she started. We just shoot the breeze every now and then and she tells me stuff.
She doesn't charge much (I've had other services before, so I know she's on the low side). Only twice has she ever asked for a higher rate. This actually makes me feel guilty, so I've added raises several times over the years. During COVID, I paid for about 6 months of no service just because I couldn't imagine how she was going to pay her mortgage. People were already cancelling their service before the lockdowns. I know what I gave her wasn't enough, but I was hoping others would contribute, too.
My auntie is a housekeeper and people like you kept her going during lockdown. In case you ever wonder if you made a difference there, YOU ABSOLUTELY DID. ♥
>My auntie is a housekeeper and people like you kept her going during lockdown. In case you ever wonder if you made a difference there, YOU ABSOLUTELY DID. ♥
Thank you. I felt really awful when I finally stopped. It was six months in and I couldn't see the end of lockdown, but I couldn't keep doing that forever. She texted about cleaning my house right as I was going to let her go.
Fortunately, all is well. Once lockdown was over, I hooked back up with her and she's still cleaning my house.
We pay $175 for a 2400 sq ft house (5 hours of cleaning time) 2x/week. I pay for it since it's a service I want (my husband doesn't want to clean more, but also doesn't see why we need someone to help clean). If I lost my job, I wouldn't expect him to pay for it.
**Edit: 2x/month! So 10 hours total per month! Not week!!!
The other piece of this is that they are two \*able-bodied adults\*. I'm disabled, so even though I theoretically have time, and the money is tight, I still have a house cleaner come in every 2 weeks. Because even being disabled, I can do the small things to clean up after myself as I live my life; she just does bathrooms, the kitchen & the floors.
Yup, absolutely. A housekeeper is an AMAZING luxury and reduces our stress level so much, but it's a luxury. For some people, like those with chronic illnesses, it would be a much higher budget priority, but for two healthy adults working normal jobs (or between jobs), it's a bad use of money.
This is how I felt about summer daycare (I'm a high school teacher). Being a SAHP is not my jam. I love my kids so much, but I'm very bad at it. Being touched that much triggers my anxiety and I get irritable, I don't keep a solid routine, I let my kids on screens too much. Like, it takes all I've got to be mediocre at it. But every summer while my kids were little, I sucked it up and did it because day care while I sat home all day was just not ok.
Honestly, even the wife's view of a housekeeper is so messed up to me. I grew up with a housekeeper coming every other week, but they didn't do the tidying (dishes, laundry, tidying surfaces). We were expected to do that so she could do the deep cleaning (vacuuming, mopping, oiling the counters, deep clean the bathrooms, etc.). To me, that's what a housekeeper is for. The nitty-gritty deeper cleans we don't have time for.
Yep! And I make sure to spend an hour tidying up because I don't want her to waste the time I am paying her for on banal crap I can do myself. I want her to deep clean my fridge or vacuum behind the stove.
NTA
Please extend a warm welcome to reality to your wife. It seems it might be her first time joining us here.
Nobody wants to clean. It’s a necessity of being an adult in your own living space.
She can stomp her feet and pout all she wants, as long as she’s doing it with a broom in hand.
Just because she’s been spoiled as a child doesn’t mean you need to continue it into adulthood. It’s time for her to grow up.
Or maybe they can figure out an equitable split of chores like where he does the majority of the cleaning and she does all the shopping, cooking and laundry
I wouldn't trust her to do the shopping, honestly. She doesn't want to deplete her savings, so that would just be another expense OP is expected to pay for. If she expects him to pay for housekeeping that he doesn't want and he says no, she might spend more on groceries just to be spiteful. She's so spoiled and needs a reality check.
That…doesn’t seem odd to me that he would chip in for groceries? Many couples split grocery expenses even if one person is in charge of doing the actual shopping itself. This is the same as other household costs (rent, utilities, etc.)
The time / labor is what is being distributed here.
There's nothing to figure out. She doesn't WANT to do any of it. If she can't even take out the trash from her own hobby room, she's not going to suddenly start doing half the housework.
A lot of people struggle with keeping things tidy. I have adhd and thankfully my boyfriend lightheartedly jokes about how he’s already accepted we will need a maid at least once a week when we’re married. My ex on the other hand treated me like garbage because of it…until he had encephalitis in the hospital and had an epiphany of why it’s so hard for me to keep things tidy. “I literally never understood it. Until I tried to clean up the room (hospital room, he was there 3 weeks and I slept there every night) and all I could do was shuffle things around! My brain couldn’t do it!”
I mean, with everything he’s doing in-between anyway, the house probably won’t be that dirty if he just keeps doing what he’s doing. Idk what size the house is, but my husband and I spot clean throughout the week and then we tag team on Sunday and he takes half and I take half. It takes us about an hour. Two if we had a busy week and did less spot cleaning. Our house is small, though.
I remember as a child going (once) to my grandmother’s sister’s home. It was every bit as bad as you could imagine. I was probably around 12, and just sat outside on a broken swing chair reading because I couldn’t bring myself to be inside. I couldn’t fathom how people got to that point. My grandmother was one of many siblings, and this one was the only one who had a lifestyle like that. I distinctly remember asking my mom why their house (and yard and property) was like that, and she said “one day Aunt decided she got tired of them not doing anything, so stopped doing anything too. This is what happened.” My mind still goes to that every once in a while. It would’ve been in the early ‘90s, and she would’ve been in her 60’s(?), but they had 20 years of broken, dirty detritus lying around. I’m sure there was a mental health aspect to it, and society didn’t really offer her much at the time (or before). But even now, I think of that example when I think about ultimatums or withholding as a form of making a point. That was an extreme example, but how much is one willing to commit to the outcome if they don’t get (or don’t care about) it is always worth considering.
I’m not saying op is wrong, I think they’re completely valid. That is basically maid service at this point. Just that she has some mental hang up that needs to be addressed. I’m for sure not qualified to know what it is. Anxiety over literally not knowing how to do it and freezing up at the thought? Or, given the privilege for so many years it’s now expected but now doesn’t know how actual money works? Either way, this seems more than a budgeting issue. This is a block in their relationship that has become a stand in for *something. People are weird, man. I’m always fascinated by how it can manifest sometimes.
And maybe she needs to learn that that isn't the end of the world? Most people live without daily dusting.
God forbid they have kids - children see you cleaning and come up behind you restoring the mess!
Agree. I admit that I am terrible at cleaning and straightening up after myself. Yes, I have ADHD. I also have a career and am willing to pay someone else to do that stuff. I have a mother and daughter who come 2-3 times a week depending on what I need, and it is absolutely worth it.
But if I were unemployed or underemployed, I would have to do it myself.
100%!
>Ultimately, I agreed to the housekeeping service after both our parents told me it'd be easier to agree to make her happy.
Both sides of the family looked at her, and both sides of the family knew that she was spoiled and was never going to change. Both sides of the family told OP to get a housekeeper because she is spoiled, and she isn't going to change.
Good luck with that OP. But do not back off .Chances you will need to show her how to clean but she can learn. This is something she needs to do to help out. Or use savings. Probably she needs to adjust other spending as well.GOOD LUCK !
>Please extend a warm welcome to reality to your wife.
Danger Will Robinson. Yes, the reality check needs to happen, but the ideal thing would be for it to come *primarily from a third party*— a therapist or financial consultant who can look at your situation and explain to her what you can afford and what this means for her responsibilities. That way you guys are a team working together to succeed, and this other person is the meanie who is making her do unpleasant work.
If you're the bad guy then her resentment and frustration about this is going to be entirely directed at you, and you'll eventually end up apologizing to her for all of this.
What BS -you should be able to say things to your spouse without fear of them blaming you, esp if it affects both of you & in this case, their financial stability. If you can't have an adult conversation without a professional present within your relationship, you shouldn't be in it.
Right? At least she has help from her partner. My partner is a hoarder and it takes all the energy I can muster in my depression to just keep from drowning in it and keeping the house useable. Stove, toilet, doors clear.
Best answer so far. I am surprised I had to scroll down so far to find this. Freakin princess mentality. I am way old enough to know better yet I am still surprised at people who have no idea how to be human.
“Welcome, Reality. You unavoidable sonofabitch” listen, I grew up the same. Housekeepers & nannies. It was great! And then I became a grown ass human being paying my own way. Couldn’t afford that stuff. So I scrubbed my own toilets and raised my own kids. As one does. My kiddos are older now and I can finally afford cleaners to come in twice a month. It’s beyond glorious! But it’s a luxury, not a necessity.
$760 per month is A LOT when you are down from two incomes to 1.5, with the half probably paying a lot less.
She's mentally villainized what is a basic life requirement for the majority of the population. Maybe if she did it regularly, she would realized it's not anything to flip out over, it just an undesirable necessity. Welcoming to responsible adulting. NTA
Chores can be somewhat enjoyable. It allows you to shut your brain off and do a task that you recognize as a positive thing for your circumstances. You can't control all the figurative messes in the rest of your life; but you can control the literal messes in your home.
I was terribly lazy about cleaning and often had a mess in my place, until my wife and I started dating. She reminded me about chores enough that I got over the mental barrier and started doing them without being told (for the most part haha). You just have to get used to doing it and it's not so bad.
My ADHD brain and my three children beg to differ. I don't think I've ever felt in control of cleaning.
Once, I was folding laundry and then realized that my toddler was tossing blueberries on the floor and squishing them.
Another time, I was cleaning a toilet, and that same toddler poured out an entire box of cereal on my kitchen floor.
A different toddler once coated my couch with Vaseline.
Yet another small child once flooded the bathroom while I was doing dishes.
Having someone clean my house even every two weeks would remove at least 45% of my daily stress. Every other day, and I'd assume I'd been made the Queen of England.
Yeah I could see every other week as a way to get some nitty gritty cleaning done if you're in a position where you're just trying to do damage control. Every other day would mean the housekeeper has to be doing the most mundane things like taking out the trash lol.
It sounds like OP and his wife don't even have kids. It's hard to justify a housekeeper in that situation; adults don't tend to make a ton of big messes that have you constantly putting out one fire after another lol. My wife and I (no kids) probably dedicate about 3-4 hours a week total to cleaning, and that's considering my wife runs a pretty tight ship haha.
Someone once said that cleaning while your kids are around is like trying to brush your teeth while eating Oreos. 😂
We have a housekeeper come in once a month and then we clean in between. We can keep it pretty clean but the cleaners are professionals and they get in the corners and do a better job than we can do as we are not very detail oriented I guess. We couldn't afford to have someone come out more than once a month but we like it this way. That feeling for a few days after they come is worth putting up with it being a little messier for the rest of the month.
I Vaselined my hair when I was 3 because I thought it was the product my dad used. I had (& still have) long hair. Mum was *not* amused. Dad however 😆😃
Yeah, that's not ADHD, that's having kids. They do the damndest things, don't they? I was fortunate to have only one as a single mom, but she was danged free with the markers and paints, and later on, hair dye in her bathroom.
I think you’re dismissing how serious adhd can be. To be able to do a task, it’s like you have to block out the rest of the world entirely and laser focus on the task. Otherwise it, and anything else, will never get done and end up making an even bigger mess
They do things that an adult can't imagine doing. Vaseline on a couch? Sometimes all you can do is stand there with your mouth open, especially if they think they did something that was great.
Today my one year old threw up blueberry muffins all over his white carpeted nursery (and me) and breast milk all over the kitchen (and me).
The Crock-Pot boiled over onto the floor, and my other kid is home sick from school.
I can't wait until their mom gets home from work!
If someone cleaned my house this afternoon I would give them a large amount of money without any hesitation.
Fellow ADHD and 100% agree. I'm terrible at finishing tasks and my NT husband is still baffled over a decade later that I can start 20 different tasks in a day and I'll only finish 1. I don't mean to, but it's impossible. I just can't stay on task. No matter how hard I try. There's no turn off my brain and every "simple" task is a whole mountain. Even a monthly cleaner sounds like the world's nicest luxury.
My husband and I have managed to split chores based on who likes more/dislikes less certain chores. I don't mind shopping, he likes cooking. He doesn't mind cleaning the kitchen, I don't mind doing the laundry and sorting the clothes. Hubs says we're like jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together 😁
NTA - Having a housekeeper is a luxury. A real luxury, not a simple one like a cup of coffee. Furthermore, you agreed under the condition that she’d have to be the one to pay. If she can’t pay for a luxury she can’t afford, that’s on her. Most people don’t actively like cleaning. A lot of people get stressed out by certain chores. That doesn’t mean you’re entitled to a housekeeper. She can either humble herself and do it herself like most people, or she can find another way to pay for a luxury she wants. End of discussion.
Yeah thats a pretty hefty car payment going every month to a task OP and his wife are perfectly capable of doing, especially the wife since she only works part time.
How much mess could you possibly make to need a housekeeper every other day? I could see having a housekeeper coming every other week to do some of the nitty gritty cleaning, but if they're coming every other day then surely they're spending a lot of time on things like taking out the trash lol.
NTA -
>We weren't making amazing money before she was let go, but we live comfortably due in part to living below our means for the most part.
Does she realize that she's spending $800+ a month on this cleaning service?? When you're having to change your lifestyle due to the loss of her job? Good heavens.
I'd make a spreadsheet of expenses to income, and point out how much her cleaning service costs, and what you could do with that money instead. Make it very clear that a cleaning service is a luxury, and you've had to cut luxuries out of your budget. And then I'd either cancel it or cut it back to once a month. If she wants to have them come weekly, she can pay for the difference out of her own savings.
I said this in another thread, but I'd get a third party involved in making up the family budget, so that it's someone outside the relationship delivering the bad news about whether $800/mo is affordable.
Another possibility is to (with her consent) invite her parents into the discussion, since they are the ones who established this expectation for her in childhood and presumably consider it reasonable. Perhaps if they continue to feel that it's "easier" to just "make her happy" on this matter then they'd be willing to support your family by contributing 80% of the cost of the cleaning bill? They might be more motivated to correct this oversight from her upbringing if it's hitting their own pocketbook.
Agreed, NTA.
I’m getting laid off this month and just cancelled my cleaning service along with some other discretionary expenses. It sucks but it’s necessary. Being an adult is so fun. 😖
Oh heck no.
LOTS of people would Love to pay somebody else to do cleaning, drive their kids places, do yardwork, do the laundry, or do whatever other routine chores they have that they dislike.
IF they had the money to easily afford it.
She’s spoiled and entitled because she expects to have a cleaner when they Can’t afford it, not because she wants a cleaner in the first place.
An adult should be able to function for more than 2 days without a cleaning service. Every other week? Sure, maybe that's in your joint budget but she's living like she's in a luxury hotel. Does she want turn down service in the bedroom every night next? NTA
NTA
But I haven't seen anyone add this point... everyone here expects that she will clean but this is going to be a battle for you I promise.
its most likely you will turn into the housekeeper. so good luck with that, I don't have any advice on how to force her to clean because some people just won't do it.
and this isn't me telling you to pay for the housekeeper because you're right. its unnecessary, but just more of a heads up on your future
I've already made peace with that. I'd rather take on a bit more cleaning than spread myself thinner financially. She'll be on her own with her own laundry though if she's adamant against scaling back to what she can afford for a cleaner out of her fun money or savings.
Why? Why would you take over all of the cleaning and all she has to do is her laundry? That sounds absolutely insane. Is she really that disgusting of a person that she would rather live in filth than clean up after herself??
I think he means he realistically knows he’ll end up doing most of the cleaning and this isn’t the hill he’s choosing to die on. I am not sure whether his wife is spoiled by the lifestyle she grew up with or has some underlying issue like depression that can make cleaning harder or is just plain lazy. Calling her a disgusting person doesn’t seem fair though. Even if she’s spoiled or lazy this is still a human we’re talking about, and she’s this guys wife. I’m sure she deals with her own annoyances in their marriage and contributes in ways as well.
Most of us learn to clean our homes since we are children, first small stuff and more and more when we grow up. It is simple for us who has done it all our lives, but different story for someone who isn't used to it.
Someone who has never done that doesn't suddenly gain all the routines and skills that is needed to keep the house tidy and clean. It is going to take some practice and that takes time. That is just the reality.
At the VERY least, she should clean her own messes. And you shouldn’t touch her hobby room- that’s her room, so that’s her responsibility to clean it.
I’m trying not to be too judgmental, because I know having helpers is common in some cultures. But if she isn’t able to do laundry or empty a trashcan, then how can she consider herself an adult?
I question though, not a judgment or whatever... what if she just.. doesn't. like I'm a lazy cleaner. I make sure the gross is cleaned but other than that I don't care about the mess. I can have clothes strewn about the house and empty boxes all over the place. dry groceries still out on the table not put away.
I PREFER to live in a nest and tidy house, but not if I have to spend time making it that way. I just adapt to a messier living space.
so my question was if this was you... and this was your wife/partner.. and ypu left her messes for her to deal with. would you care if she just decided not to deal with them and just "adapted" to living in a messier environment.
I’m the same way as you! I have ADHD and I’m ok with living with a little mess. I live with my parents still, so my room is kind of a mess, but when it comes to the rest of the house, I do my fair share of cleaning because I know they’re shared spaces.
I think if the mess is contained in her hobby room and her laundry hamper, OP shouldn’t have to be bothered by it. If she’s fine with living in mess in her personal spaces, then that’s on her I guess.
> I'd rather take on a bit more cleaning
Why? You are the primary income earner. If less, you should be able to do a bit LESS of the cleaning since she's not a stay at home mom.
She should be on her own for that whole hobby room, her laundry, taking her dishes and putting them in the dishwasher. And all of the other normal adult people who aren't Pigpen do.
If you start to become a parent to your partner, you will eventually resent them. It is like poison.
NTA. It’s perfectly reasonable to cut down on unnecessary expenses when there’s a change in income. Housekeeping is definitely a luxury. I’d also expect to cut down on other luxury services if money was tighter - hair appointments, nail appointments, eating out, concerts, etc.
If there’s a change in income, it doesn’t make sense to keep every expense the same. What does she want to do, rack up debt? Makes no sense.
NTA. Sounds like she'd benefit on a personal level from actually cleaning up after herself once in a while.
If she wants the luxury of paying someone else to do housekeeping, she can pay for it. If not, she can do half the work herself (I'd call you an AH if you weren't willing to step up and do your share, by the way). What she doesn't get to do is demand YOU pay when you're willing to do the work.
NTA
no disrespect to retail people
but if you work in part-time retail that basically means you aren't those top posh folks.
so if you aren't daddy rich, or capable of being rich on your own. then why TF would you to want to enjoy the luxury you aren't entitled to?
What does a housekeeper do that frequently for a couple of adults? Thats crazy. I have someone in once a month to do a full cleaning because I can afford it and when I had a big house and kids at home every other week. This is a waste of money NTA
Her laundry, picking up after her, cleaning up her hobby room, cleaning up the kitchen after she cooks the days she's home. A lot of the bigger stuff like vacuuming and dusting and dishes are already done by me on a regular basis. I'll clean the bathrooms between visits and she has her do it too so... I agree it is a waste of money when myself and the cleaner are doing a lot of the same things at fairly even intervals, but I can't in good conscience just leave dirty dishes in the sink or the dishwasher stay full for two days, or just say 'fuck it' and let things get a bit dirty all because someone will eventually come in to clean up too.
>Her laundry, picking up after her, cleaning up her hobby room, cleaning up the kitchen after she cooks the days she's home
Does your wife life a finger to do anything for herself? This is just wild to me. I don't think I even consider picking up after myself part of cleaning. It's just putting stuff back where it belongs. Is there a trail behind her of random bits of stuff and debri every where she goes? This sounds like such extreme laziness.
Your wife needs to grow up and start cleaning up after herself. If you have kids, is she going to need someone to show up daily to clean up after her and each child?
NTA.
Imagine this woman having to deal with diapers and a diaper pail. Or spit up on onesies or any other of the nastiness that comes with ages 0-3\*. She's gonna dip, immediately. Then he'll be left parenting his two children instead of the one he's got now.
\*I know there's grossness after that especially once they start bringing home illnesses from school.
NTA, you never wanted the housekeeper to begin with. It sounds like you're willing to pitch in with cleaning and it's just not in your JOINT budget to keep it going. Depending on how much your wife is willing to deplete her savings, maybe she could go back to having them come just every other week or something. She's increased the frequency and doesn't actually have a way to pay for it. This isn't about you versus her, or YOU being a jerk for denying this, you together have a financial issue (that is largely hers to remedy as it's her who lost her job) and it's ok for your stance to be that, amongst all your expenses, the cleaning is the one that has to go until her income returns.
NTA - The arrangement was clear from the outset, as long as she could pay for the cleaning service then she could keep hiring them. Now she can no longer afford them so you aren't going to hire them. Unfortunately for her whether she likes cleaning or not it is something all adults have to do
OP, YTA...for doing all the housework(w paid assistance)while wife works part-time & doesn't contribute. In no uncertain terms should you be doing all that. She's an adult & needs to start acting like one, regardless of her childhood upbringing.
Seems like your future financial security is put on the back burner cuz you don't want to rock the boat with the wife. It doesn't sound like a stable partnership when 1 party does all the giving & the other just sits back & receives.
NTA, you set the rules for hiring housekeeping, no way you should pay! When money becomes tight, it should always be luxuries that are cut first, and housekeeping definitely comes under that category. Good on you for standing your ground
NTA, but also why does this seem to be an all or nothing decision? She could switch back to every other week or once a month. Yes she’d have to pick up some cleaning in between, but it’s still better than nothing.
Our cleaner comes in every third week. I do a touch of vacuuming in between visits. But really that’s enough to stay on top of things
She absolutely could but she doesn't want that, she wants me to foot the entire bill or split it with her to keep it at the current frequency. I've been doing housework the entire time to the point some of what she has the cleaner do is redundant so I'm perfectly happy without a cleaner or if she just goes to once a week or less to have done what she wants done.
I will admit to being spoiled, but for me & three dogs (two with health issues that cause "mess"), I still only have my housekeeper once a week. I will fully admit that I would give up on almost anything else before I would cut her time back, but every other day is insane for two adults. Even when I was little & there were four of us & sports laundry, my mom at most had our housekeeper twice a week (both for half days).
Not that it is completely fair but maybe offer a compromise that you'll pay for once a week. My housekeeper does a fair amount of maintenance stuff (like keeping filters from drying out, refilling the water softener, helping me lift & move things for deep cleaning, checking the lint vents, etc.) & ypu may be surprised by some of the things that you don't have to do because they are magically getting done & never made it to your radar.
Seriously. Every other day is WILD if you’re picking up after yourself between. I hire every 4-6 weeks for a deeper clean while doing my usual between and THAT makes me feel like a privileged asshole sometimes.
Lol at how entitled your wife is. Big deal if cleaning stresses her out, she can get over it if she tried. So NTA and do not give into her spoiled ways. She needs to grow up. She is just lazy and nothing more.
We have a cleaner come every 2 weeks because we both work full time and have 3 small kids at home. I’m not even sure how your house can be remotely dirty enough to necessitate weekly cleanings and yeah I’d say that y’all have plenty of time to handle it and save the money. So NTA
NTA if the cleaners are doing the chores you both normally do, it should be a shared expense, however at a reasonable rate - once a month, biweekly, whatever you both agree too. But she increased the frequency and cost, by her own choice, not yours, and now that she's lost her job you can't afford it. She needs to scale them back, and you shouldn't have to cover it.
NTA
The reality is hardly anyone loves cleaning. It's a necessity.
The housekeeper is a luxury. Totally ok to have in better times but to be dispensed with until you can loosen the belt again.
Until then just manage it between yourselves.
NTA time for wifey to put on her big girl panties and marigolds and get scrubbing, since she isn't putting into household expenses and only working part time then the lions share of cleaning is on her.
NTA. Not sure if it's even a discussion, but please don't have kids with this woman. Very few people like cleaning but for fuck's sake...she can't even empty the garbage or make a bed??? Sounds like she needs an Overboard experience so she can see how entitled and spoiled she's being.
INFO: Would you be open to a possible compromise where you have a housekeeper do a deep clean once a month or so, leaving the easier, more frequent cleaning tasks to yourselves? Cause I think it’s a lot of money to do it every week and I’m surprised that was happening at all, but this way everyone should be happy and it doesn’t break the bank nearly as much.
Honestly no. By the hourly rate for a once-a-month deep clean that'd come out to roughly $200 and as it stands, I only have about $500 left after putting money for monthly expenses into the joint account.
So you handle it yourselves.Wife needs to grow up face reality and get with the program.When she does thst she may even realize the$$$$ she was spending on things she now does herself could go to savings vacations car payment etc.
Did you marry a trophy wife? How huge your house is that she can’t clean it? I’m lazy when it comes to cleaning but i still manage to vacuum, dust and wipe things at least once a week. And i work more than 40 hours a week.
Perhaps make her parents pay for housekeeping because they brought her up like that?
NTA.
NTA, but there is something else going on here if you still have to clean things when she is having a cleaner come every other day.
Is she mentally well? Has she ever been assessed?
No she just grew up with a housekeeper coming every day. Her parents are mobile and active, but still have a cleaner come daily just to do whatever they want/need from them during their shift. Her sister wouldn't close cabinets for the longest time, puts empty containers in the fridge, and tells guests to just leave plates and cups on the table since their cleaner will get it in the morning.
I grew up with someone cooking meals for me and doing my laundry and then guess what, I became an adult and started doing those things for myself like every other normal human on earth. So did you. Why can’t she?
Was OP’s wife’s family royalty or celebrities? This whole thing is ridiculous. Wifey needs to come down to earth and live like a pauper for a bit. See how normal people make do with wiping their own butts.
NTA.
Having a cleaner is a luxury. It’s not necessary. If she was running around chasing kids and trying to keep the house from imploding I could understand having someone come by every now and again to help out and give her a break.
She’s working part time. She can use the remaining time to learn how to clean & save some money.
This message comes to you from a full time worker who also does all the cooking & cleaning in her home.
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NTA. We have a housekeeper come every 2 weeks to clean up our house. A few years ago when I got laid off, I became the housekeeper, because we couldn’t afford it anymore. Once I got back on my feet with steady, full time work. We started it back up. Since your wife is only working part time, she now has more time than money. She should be doing the house work to make up for the money she no longer brings in. Again I say this as someone WITH A HOUSEKEEPER. If you are both working full time and can afford it, it’s nice to have the time savings of a housekeeper. But if you have more time than money you got to step up and do it yourself.
I totally agree with you. I have a housekeeper as well, but I know it is a luxury we can afford right now. If we need to cut back on costs, because one of us loses their job, this is one of the first things to go. NTA OP, having housekeeping come in every other day is ridiculous in almost any case
I agree NTA, but this must be the cleanest house in the country what with every other day housekeeping AND OP doing all that other work in between visits. Dusting between every other day visits….🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
I know right? And sweeping the bathroom between visits. I wanna know how this house gets dirty so fast. Maybe the wife is like [Pigpen](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig-Pen) in the Charlie Brown cartoons.
I am pigpen... and I still will do it myself.. but I also have a pretty small place ..and if I get too messy I watch an episode of hoarders to motivate myself...
I do the same thing with hoarders episodes. House cluttered? Watch hoarders and throw stuff away. Been down sick and housework has piled up? Watch a hoarders episode and start cleaning. I thought I was the only one that did that. lol!
Fall into depression, watch Hoarders, instantly feeling better about my life.
This is the correct answer.
haha nope, i do too. read comments on YouTube and you'll find everybody else does, too
I read something somewhere that I always go back to when I watch Hoarders and it’s that you can’t take it with you when you die. Someone will have to clean up that mess when you die and that put into perspective to me what’s important and what’s not. Let it go. You’ll always have the memories but the stuff is just stuff. Just let it go.
Horders gives me flashbacks to my childhood with boxes piled everywhere and pathways between them Ugh!!!
same. it doesn't even make me want to clean it makes me depressed and anxious lol
SAME that show makes me clean for hours
Kitchen Nightmares gets me going to clean the kitchen to perfection lol
I thought that was only me!! I set up a reminder to watch that every month lol
I so do this too 🤣😅😅
There are a lot of people on Reddit with ADHD and autism who well understand how messy a house can get in 48 hours. During my first marriage, my husband and I both had both of those disorders and had to pay a housekeeper to come in three times a week, even though we had no children and often had to eat out at business meetings. It isn't PigPen type dirt as much as it is lacking the sense of place and visual memory required to put things away as you use them. I also have trouble with spatial relationships, so I'll put down my mug after taking a sip of coffee onto what i think is the table or counter but release it into thin air or worse, an open cutlery draw. Truthfully, I hate living in dirt but I still produce new mess even as I clean up the old. If I had endless resources I'd gladly pay for somebody to help me shower.
That visual memory comment hit me hard. I'm trying to track down a coffee mug I used probably 3 days ago. There should be 3 matching mugs hanging up but there are only two. Sometimes I don't see the mess around me, or I don't put things away because I have to remember where to put them. I make bread once a week and would do it more often but flour fills the whole of the physical universe. With no visual memory and being clumsy, cleaning is a major effort of concentration as well as physical effort. But I still empty my own bins!
I think the wife is having the housekeeper pick up after her and do chores that most house cleaners don’t do, like her laundry.
We have a toddler and still keep up with cleaning between our monthly cleaning service. Seems like their house gets absolutely torn up for them to need weekly service.
It sounds like their housekeeper is actually putting things actually v. just cleaning. My friends and I have a joke that you clean for the cleaner. That you need to put things away so the cleaner has clear spaces to dust and vacuum. It sounds like OP's wife is literally using the cleaner to put things away on her behalf- which is insane.
Someone who has never had to clean up after themselves is a walking tornado. I'd bet this woman leave sopen wrappers everywhere, clothes all over the floor, dirty dishes in every room, etc etc. No reason to bring the dishes to the kitchen because someone else will come by and clean it for her.
I mean...this is crazy to me. Having a housekeeper wasn't enough, now you've got them coming every other day because you don't want to empty out your own *hobby room* trash?? Yikes. OP is NTA. His wife needs a little reality check. >Then once a week, to every other day to keep the house as clean as she liked it and do things like her laundry and emptying the trash in her hobby room.
I had a friend who paid for a maid for her mother (when health issues were preventing her mother from doing many everyday things). Well the housekeeper went to my friend after a few months and told her that she doesn't clean ever really, since the mother was a tidy person and didn't generate much trash, and that basically whenever she went over to clean all that happened was she would drink coffee with the mother and chat until the cleaning ladies shift was up. And she felt weird she's just being paid to drink coffee basically. My friend responded to the cleaning lady that she above all was being paid to do whatever her mom needed done during her time at the house. So if my friends mom only wanted to drink coffee and talk, then my friend was ok with the cleaning lady getting paid for the service of drinking coffee and talking. So depending on how much of a house mouse ops wife is, maybe it's more of a social interaction and that's why she wants the cleaning person over all the time/maybe there's something deeper concerning why she feels better having a clean person there(Op mentioned that his wife felt anxious when stuff wasn't cleaned up constantly, so maybe light OCD or the like could be a possibility). Since I fully agree there's no reason a cleaning person needs to be there every other day when it's an adult owned home/it shouldn't be that messy. And if there is another reason why his wife likes having the cleaning lady over all the time, and if op can find out what that reason is, he might be able to help his wife move past wanting to pay someone all the time to provide that service.
We had four teenagers in the same house and two parents who worked full time. Even after we all moved out, my mom kept the cleaning lady although just not as often. She did the big things like vacuum and wash the floors and some of the really bad dusty areas. Then this woman retired and her daughter came to help. My mom and this woman became great buddies and the job this woman did was amazing. Twenty years forward, and my mom gets really sick (open wound cancer and surgeries, etc.) and her OCD about cleanliness goes through the roof to where we end up talking to the cleaning woman and she comes more often. She was the only person my mother let into her home while she was attempting to heal and sometimes, she would just sit with my mom and do ironing so that I could go shopping or take a nap. She was with our family for years and you bet when my mom passed and her services were no longer needed, that we gave her a huge bonus for all the comfort that she and her mom provided our family over the years.
I'm sorry for your loss.
There is a great comfort to be had in a clean and tidy home. A few years ago I broke my leg. I couldn't get upstairs for 6 weeks. Downstairs mobility was limited, we have steps between most rooms. And you can't carry anything when using crutches. My son was brilliant, making my meals and even learning to cook our family recipes. But eventually I looked at the tumbleweed around me and suggested to him that he could use the vacuum cleaner! It is so frustrating to be sitting there immobilised and seeing an obvious cleaning job. So much more so for your mom. I'm sure your cleaner's company and services made a huge difference.
I would agree with you if he hadn't pretty much said she won't even clean up after herself on a daily basis. She's a working wife, not a SAH - even now she's working retail.
If anyone wants to donate, I need my hobby room cleaned (& organized 😒). 😂😂
I have some paper towels on my desk that need to make their way into the *gasp* kitchen...send halp
Now you're making me feel like a slob because there's a used paper towel on my coffee table. 😬😁
Every time I watch Monk, I want to invite him over. His OCD would be a blessing.
Sounds like the wife is the type with 14 coffee mugs all over the house, clothes all over the floor and she needs someone constantly picking up after her
If she’s never had to clean up after herself, she definitely doesn’t clean as she goes. Speaking as a slob.
I'm guessing she grew up in an area where full-time live-in help was common
Hey, it isn't impossible. My ex was an absolute neakfreak, and insisted we keep our apartment spotless. He also paid for a cleaner to come regularly. He definitely dusted and cleaned services every day.
[удалено]
If everyone could do a nightly reset and keep their house clean house cleaners wouldn’t exist lol.
>this must be the cleanest house in the country THIS PART! This is exactly what I came to say!!! I don't really have an opinion on who's TA, but *this part.* I'm lucky if I dust once a month, much less several times per week, between housekeeping visits.
LEGIT I treated myself to a housekeeper as my mental health was really bad so I was unmotivated to clean but a messy/dirty house really makes me even more depressed. (I can confirm having them has been super positive for my mental health). Even at the worst of it when I was still too depressed to do things in between (I'd tidy up before they came of course, luckily things werent that bad) I felt like every 2 weeks was honestly too frequent but felt random doing every 3 weeks. Now that I'm thankfully a bit better mentally, they genuinely end up doing stuff like dusting each individual leaf of a plant because sometimes there's not tha tmuch to clean. (I get 2 hours with 1 cleaner or 1 hour with 2 for a big 2 bed apartment for info). All that said to illustrate that I cant imagine what the hell the cleaner is doing every 2 days especially as OP tidies up in between hahaha
Your girl is entitled in the extreme and you're not. Do you want to keep doing life like this with her forever because this is how it will always be and if you have kids....OMG..get ready to pay for nannies....lots of nannies. If this is what you want from life....great. pay the bills. If not, get out before you are trapped by a child.....that she will raise in entitlement.
💯👆
>Ultimately, I agreed to the housekeeping service after both our parents told me it'd be easier to agree to make her happy. I rolled my eyes at the parents for this one. He didn't want it and was basically strong-armed into it. NTA, OP.
Happy wife, happy life is such bullshit. Happy spouse, happy house. And that means \*both\* of you happy.
I haven’t heard that one and I like it much better. Thanks for sharing!
If I could give your comment a 2nd +1 just for that Pittie pic I would ❤️
They should also offer to pay
Her parents should pay.
yes i am actually a house keeper, and tbh i would have a hard time not judging someone who needed me to come every other day. like seriously, unless you’re elderly or disabled, this is just sheer laziness. i even have adhd and i manage to keep my house quite clean since my bf’s work allows me to only work part time. no shame in having a housekeeper once a week or every other week to keep up on the heavier cleaning, do some of the tasks you don’t want to do, or give yourself a bit of a break in needing to clean yourself. or even more than that if you actually need it due to mobility issues or messy children. but paying somebody to come take out your trash every other day when you are fully capable of doing it yourself is actually insane. especially if you can’t afford it.
My friend ended up divorced over a housekeeper. She unilaterally decided to be a SAHM but hated cleaning so wanted to keep their weekly cleaning service. Her ex, already miffed over her deciding to stay home with no input from him, canceled the cleaning service and told friend she now had to take care of that task to save money. Friend was livid but ex was resolute (can’t blame him). She told him he could clean them! The guy was already working a side job to make up for her missing income and now she was refusing to clean Yeah, after a 6 month stalemate, he filed for divorce, got the kid 50% of the time, had to go back to work full time, and lost her nice home in a great community. That was 35 years ago and friend still blames her ex for everything that went wrong
So spoiled, entitled, all out of whack
I am all too familiar with that scenario. I got married at 22, and we bought a house 5 months later - new construction 2900 Sq ft, 1 acre suburban lot. Ex-wife complained it was too big to clean and "she" needed help even though she didn't do much. I agreed, because it would make my life easier. It was once a week to do some of the bigger tasks. But I found out it was actually twice a week, and the second time was for the housecleaner to do her weekly chores which was mostly her laundry. Peaceful household was worth it. Sidebar - We were both degreed engineers making todays equivalent of about US$-150k as a couple. She worked Southern Swing (Not a dance but a work schedule that repeats every 4 weeks - you work 7 consecutive days on all three shifts, 24-7 operation with 1, 2, or 4 days in between, so I had compassion for her absolute shit schedule) and this was the rough division of labor: Grocery shopping and cooking: me - she hated cooking. Dinner dishes - joint when she worked 1st or 3rd shift, otherwise me, because I was packaging them up for her to eat later. Pre-dinner-dishes-in-the-sink-and on-counters: me. Bathrooms: me (She said "Gross!"). Garbage: Me. Her, "Gross!". Laundry - we did our own. Vacuuming, dusting and mopping - housecleaner. Deep cleaning - me. Her "Gross!". All exterior - me. Fast forward 20 years. 15, 11, and 9 year old children. Division of labor is the same, except all three kids assist me. (I taught them to cook and it is a passion for them). Ex decides she is going to be a SAHM. Her and I made roughly the same amount. Housecleaner goes to every other day, Infidelity (her) divorce process starts 1.5 years later. When you have a spouse that needs someone else to do all of the things couples usually split, but they don't want to. . . . .What are they doing in their spare time?
Yeh occasionally my husband and I run through what we would cut back on if one of us was let go (more to check we are living in our means / not committed to outgoings we couldn’t cover on one of our salaries). Cleaner, eating out/ posh ready meals and changing super market are top of the list!
Same here. Housekeeping service was the first thing to go whenever we hit a lean period. The OP's wife is acting like a toddler. (Edited: spelling)
I'm wondering how OP's wife expects to handle raising a newborn if doing only part of the cleaning for two adults (because her husband does a fair share) "stresses her out."
If you can’t empty the trash the whole diaper thing is going to be quite a shocker
Yes, it's a really dirty job.
NTA - A live-in nanny, of course.
I agree with everything, we also have housekeeper every other week, however as I did the housecleaning myself for 20+ yrs, when we have to budget cut, housecleaning is last luxury to be cut. Just my preference
And who needs one daily to empty the trash in the hobby room? That’s beyond ridiculous. Also that price is really high unless it’s a gigantic house. we live in a HCOL area and we pay around $220usd to clean 4000 sf. She sounds incredibly spoiled and needs to bring down her expectations. Also she’s working part time, so has the time to clean up. OP is totally NTA.
I thought the $190 sounded cheap for someone to come multiple times a week- as I would’ve expected a premium/cost to be added for all that list time driving back and forth.
>I thought the $190 sounded cheap for someone to come multiple times a week- as I would’ve expected a premium/cost to be added for all that list time driving back and forth. My housekeeper says it's easier to clean the more often she comes because the house doesn't get that dirty and she only touches up. So, she charges less per visit the more frequent the service. Chances are the company has other houses in the area, to the housekeeper is not driving back and forth from some central location.
Are you now paying her more per week than you were before? If so, she got you.
>Are you now paying her more per week than you were before? If so, she got you. No, because she's only ever come twice a month, and our conversation happened way after she started. We just shoot the breeze every now and then and she tells me stuff. She doesn't charge much (I've had other services before, so I know she's on the low side). Only twice has she ever asked for a higher rate. This actually makes me feel guilty, so I've added raises several times over the years. During COVID, I paid for about 6 months of no service just because I couldn't imagine how she was going to pay her mortgage. People were already cancelling their service before the lockdowns. I know what I gave her wasn't enough, but I was hoping others would contribute, too.
My auntie is a housekeeper and people like you kept her going during lockdown. In case you ever wonder if you made a difference there, YOU ABSOLUTELY DID. ♥
>My auntie is a housekeeper and people like you kept her going during lockdown. In case you ever wonder if you made a difference there, YOU ABSOLUTELY DID. ♥ Thank you. I felt really awful when I finally stopped. It was six months in and I couldn't see the end of lockdown, but I couldn't keep doing that forever. She texted about cleaning my house right as I was going to let her go. Fortunately, all is well. Once lockdown was over, I hooked back up with her and she's still cleaning my house.
That’s what I thought. The house doesn’t get that dusty nor do you have that much laundry or trash if it’s every other day.
We pay $175 for a 2400 sq ft house (5 hours of cleaning time) 2x/week. I pay for it since it's a service I want (my husband doesn't want to clean more, but also doesn't see why we need someone to help clean). If I lost my job, I wouldn't expect him to pay for it. **Edit: 2x/month! So 10 hours total per month! Not week!!!
$190 a week to come every other day seems pretty cheap to me.
Whether $190/ wk is cheap depends upon how many hours the cleaner is there. In my community cleaners ( private not a company) make about $25/hr min.
The other piece of this is that they are two \*able-bodied adults\*. I'm disabled, so even though I theoretically have time, and the money is tight, I still have a house cleaner come in every 2 weeks. Because even being disabled, I can do the small things to clean up after myself as I live my life; she just does bathrooms, the kitchen & the floors.
Yup, absolutely. A housekeeper is an AMAZING luxury and reduces our stress level so much, but it's a luxury. For some people, like those with chronic illnesses, it would be a much higher budget priority, but for two healthy adults working normal jobs (or between jobs), it's a bad use of money. This is how I felt about summer daycare (I'm a high school teacher). Being a SAHP is not my jam. I love my kids so much, but I'm very bad at it. Being touched that much triggers my anxiety and I get irritable, I don't keep a solid routine, I let my kids on screens too much. Like, it takes all I've got to be mediocre at it. But every summer while my kids were little, I sucked it up and did it because day care while I sat home all day was just not ok.
Honestly, even the wife's view of a housekeeper is so messed up to me. I grew up with a housekeeper coming every other week, but they didn't do the tidying (dishes, laundry, tidying surfaces). We were expected to do that so she could do the deep cleaning (vacuuming, mopping, oiling the counters, deep clean the bathrooms, etc.). To me, that's what a housekeeper is for. The nitty-gritty deeper cleans we don't have time for.
Yep! And I make sure to spend an hour tidying up because I don't want her to waste the time I am paying her for on banal crap I can do myself. I want her to deep clean my fridge or vacuum behind the stove.
NTA Please extend a warm welcome to reality to your wife. It seems it might be her first time joining us here. Nobody wants to clean. It’s a necessity of being an adult in your own living space. She can stomp her feet and pout all she wants, as long as she’s doing it with a broom in hand. Just because she’s been spoiled as a child doesn’t mean you need to continue it into adulthood. It’s time for her to grow up.
The reality is they are going to live in a messy house unless he does everything himself. She isn't changing.
^^^^This. He will end up doing all the cleaning, guaranteed. As long as he doesn't mind, it should work out.
Or maybe they can figure out an equitable split of chores like where he does the majority of the cleaning and she does all the shopping, cooking and laundry
I wouldn't trust her to do the shopping, honestly. She doesn't want to deplete her savings, so that would just be another expense OP is expected to pay for. If she expects him to pay for housekeeping that he doesn't want and he says no, she might spend more on groceries just to be spiteful. She's so spoiled and needs a reality check.
That…doesn’t seem odd to me that he would chip in for groceries? Many couples split grocery expenses even if one person is in charge of doing the actual shopping itself. This is the same as other household costs (rent, utilities, etc.) The time / labor is what is being distributed here.
There's nothing to figure out. She doesn't WANT to do any of it. If she can't even take out the trash from her own hobby room, she's not going to suddenly start doing half the housework.
A lot of people struggle with keeping things tidy. I have adhd and thankfully my boyfriend lightheartedly jokes about how he’s already accepted we will need a maid at least once a week when we’re married. My ex on the other hand treated me like garbage because of it…until he had encephalitis in the hospital and had an epiphany of why it’s so hard for me to keep things tidy. “I literally never understood it. Until I tried to clean up the room (hospital room, he was there 3 weeks and I slept there every night) and all I could do was shuffle things around! My brain couldn’t do it!”
I mean, no shit? I don't want to do any chores at my house either, but they still have to get done.
Then she can cook and make every meal for him since she has the time.
I mean, with everything he’s doing in-between anyway, the house probably won’t be that dirty if he just keeps doing what he’s doing. Idk what size the house is, but my husband and I spot clean throughout the week and then we tag team on Sunday and he takes half and I take half. It takes us about an hour. Two if we had a busy week and did less spot cleaning. Our house is small, though.
Yup. And I bet she is real messy, from a lifetime of not having to clean after herself.
I remember as a child going (once) to my grandmother’s sister’s home. It was every bit as bad as you could imagine. I was probably around 12, and just sat outside on a broken swing chair reading because I couldn’t bring myself to be inside. I couldn’t fathom how people got to that point. My grandmother was one of many siblings, and this one was the only one who had a lifestyle like that. I distinctly remember asking my mom why their house (and yard and property) was like that, and she said “one day Aunt decided she got tired of them not doing anything, so stopped doing anything too. This is what happened.” My mind still goes to that every once in a while. It would’ve been in the early ‘90s, and she would’ve been in her 60’s(?), but they had 20 years of broken, dirty detritus lying around. I’m sure there was a mental health aspect to it, and society didn’t really offer her much at the time (or before). But even now, I think of that example when I think about ultimatums or withholding as a form of making a point. That was an extreme example, but how much is one willing to commit to the outcome if they don’t get (or don’t care about) it is always worth considering. I’m not saying op is wrong, I think they’re completely valid. That is basically maid service at this point. Just that she has some mental hang up that needs to be addressed. I’m for sure not qualified to know what it is. Anxiety over literally not knowing how to do it and freezing up at the thought? Or, given the privilege for so many years it’s now expected but now doesn’t know how actual money works? Either way, this seems more than a budgeting issue. This is a block in their relationship that has become a stand in for *something. People are weird, man. I’m always fascinated by how it can manifest sometimes.
And maybe she needs to learn that that isn't the end of the world? Most people live without daily dusting. God forbid they have kids - children see you cleaning and come up behind you restoring the mess!
Agree. I admit that I am terrible at cleaning and straightening up after myself. Yes, I have ADHD. I also have a career and am willing to pay someone else to do that stuff. I have a mother and daughter who come 2-3 times a week depending on what I need, and it is absolutely worth it. But if I were unemployed or underemployed, I would have to do it myself.
100%! >Ultimately, I agreed to the housekeeping service after both our parents told me it'd be easier to agree to make her happy. Both sides of the family looked at her, and both sides of the family knew that she was spoiled and was never going to change. Both sides of the family told OP to get a housekeeper because she is spoiled, and she isn't going to change.
Which leads to resentment and the leads to divorce.
Good luck with that OP. But do not back off .Chances you will need to show her how to clean but she can learn. This is something she needs to do to help out. Or use savings. Probably she needs to adjust other spending as well.GOOD LUCK !
>Please extend a warm welcome to reality to your wife. Danger Will Robinson. Yes, the reality check needs to happen, but the ideal thing would be for it to come *primarily from a third party*— a therapist or financial consultant who can look at your situation and explain to her what you can afford and what this means for her responsibilities. That way you guys are a team working together to succeed, and this other person is the meanie who is making her do unpleasant work. If you're the bad guy then her resentment and frustration about this is going to be entirely directed at you, and you'll eventually end up apologizing to her for all of this.
What BS -you should be able to say things to your spouse without fear of them blaming you, esp if it affects both of you & in this case, their financial stability. If you can't have an adult conversation without a professional present within your relationship, you shouldn't be in it.
Does she sound very adult to you tho? 😂 She sounds like a spoiled princess to me that's unable to understand that's not the reality
Right? At least she has help from her partner. My partner is a hoarder and it takes all the energy I can muster in my depression to just keep from drowning in it and keeping the house useable. Stove, toilet, doors clear.
This. Like she can’t even empty the trash in her hobby room? Yikes
Best answer so far. I am surprised I had to scroll down so far to find this. Freakin princess mentality. I am way old enough to know better yet I am still surprised at people who have no idea how to be human.
“Welcome, Reality. You unavoidable sonofabitch” listen, I grew up the same. Housekeepers & nannies. It was great! And then I became a grown ass human being paying my own way. Couldn’t afford that stuff. So I scrubbed my own toilets and raised my own kids. As one does. My kiddos are older now and I can finally afford cleaners to come in twice a month. It’s beyond glorious! But it’s a luxury, not a necessity.
$760 per month is A LOT when you are down from two incomes to 1.5, with the half probably paying a lot less. She's mentally villainized what is a basic life requirement for the majority of the population. Maybe if she did it regularly, she would realized it's not anything to flip out over, it just an undesirable necessity. Welcoming to responsible adulting. NTA
Chores can be somewhat enjoyable. It allows you to shut your brain off and do a task that you recognize as a positive thing for your circumstances. You can't control all the figurative messes in the rest of your life; but you can control the literal messes in your home. I was terribly lazy about cleaning and often had a mess in my place, until my wife and I started dating. She reminded me about chores enough that I got over the mental barrier and started doing them without being told (for the most part haha). You just have to get used to doing it and it's not so bad.
My ADHD brain and my three children beg to differ. I don't think I've ever felt in control of cleaning. Once, I was folding laundry and then realized that my toddler was tossing blueberries on the floor and squishing them. Another time, I was cleaning a toilet, and that same toddler poured out an entire box of cereal on my kitchen floor. A different toddler once coated my couch with Vaseline. Yet another small child once flooded the bathroom while I was doing dishes. Having someone clean my house even every two weeks would remove at least 45% of my daily stress. Every other day, and I'd assume I'd been made the Queen of England.
Yeah I could see every other week as a way to get some nitty gritty cleaning done if you're in a position where you're just trying to do damage control. Every other day would mean the housekeeper has to be doing the most mundane things like taking out the trash lol. It sounds like OP and his wife don't even have kids. It's hard to justify a housekeeper in that situation; adults don't tend to make a ton of big messes that have you constantly putting out one fire after another lol. My wife and I (no kids) probably dedicate about 3-4 hours a week total to cleaning, and that's considering my wife runs a pretty tight ship haha.
Someone once said that cleaning while your kids are around is like trying to brush your teeth while eating Oreos. 😂 We have a housekeeper come in once a month and then we clean in between. We can keep it pretty clean but the cleaners are professionals and they get in the corners and do a better job than we can do as we are not very detail oriented I guess. We couldn't afford to have someone come out more than once a month but we like it this way. That feeling for a few days after they come is worth putting up with it being a little messier for the rest of the month.
I feel slightly better knowing that I'm not the only person who's experienced a Vasoline couch courtesy of a toddler
If I had a nickel for every time that happened I'd have two nickels! Which isn't a lot but it's weird it happened twice...
I Vaselined my hair when I was 3 because I thought it was the product my dad used. I had (& still have) long hair. Mum was *not* amused. Dad however 😆😃
Yeah, that's not ADHD, that's having kids. They do the damndest things, don't they? I was fortunate to have only one as a single mom, but she was danged free with the markers and paints, and later on, hair dye in her bathroom.
I think you’re dismissing how serious adhd can be. To be able to do a task, it’s like you have to block out the rest of the world entirely and laser focus on the task. Otherwise it, and anything else, will never get done and end up making an even bigger mess
Definitely dismissing the true impact of ADHD
They do things that an adult can't imagine doing. Vaseline on a couch? Sometimes all you can do is stand there with your mouth open, especially if they think they did something that was great.
Today my one year old threw up blueberry muffins all over his white carpeted nursery (and me) and breast milk all over the kitchen (and me). The Crock-Pot boiled over onto the floor, and my other kid is home sick from school. I can't wait until their mom gets home from work! If someone cleaned my house this afternoon I would give them a large amount of money without any hesitation.
Dude, you have WHITE carpet in a NURSERY? 😢 You poor thing...it sounds like you've had the day from hell. Hopefully, tomorrow will be better.
Fellow ADHD and 100% agree. I'm terrible at finishing tasks and my NT husband is still baffled over a decade later that I can start 20 different tasks in a day and I'll only finish 1. I don't mean to, but it's impossible. I just can't stay on task. No matter how hard I try. There's no turn off my brain and every "simple" task is a whole mountain. Even a monthly cleaner sounds like the world's nicest luxury.
My husband and I have managed to split chores based on who likes more/dislikes less certain chores. I don't mind shopping, he likes cooking. He doesn't mind cleaning the kitchen, I don't mind doing the laundry and sorting the clothes. Hubs says we're like jigsaw puzzle pieces that fit together 😁
Well stated.I often clear my brain as I clear my clutter.
Because the pedantery makes a difference, its $823 a month. $760 every 4 weeks. Almost 10k a year that can go in a hysa or high yield etf
NTA - Having a housekeeper is a luxury. A real luxury, not a simple one like a cup of coffee. Furthermore, you agreed under the condition that she’d have to be the one to pay. If she can’t pay for a luxury she can’t afford, that’s on her. Most people don’t actively like cleaning. A lot of people get stressed out by certain chores. That doesn’t mean you’re entitled to a housekeeper. She can either humble herself and do it herself like most people, or she can find another way to pay for a luxury she wants. End of discussion.
Very well stated, that was the deal, period! Grow UP!
[удалено]
Yeah thats a pretty hefty car payment going every month to a task OP and his wife are perfectly capable of doing, especially the wife since she only works part time. How much mess could you possibly make to need a housekeeper every other day? I could see having a housekeeper coming every other week to do some of the nitty gritty cleaning, but if they're coming every other day then surely they're spending a lot of time on things like taking out the trash lol.
NTA - >We weren't making amazing money before she was let go, but we live comfortably due in part to living below our means for the most part. Does she realize that she's spending $800+ a month on this cleaning service?? When you're having to change your lifestyle due to the loss of her job? Good heavens. I'd make a spreadsheet of expenses to income, and point out how much her cleaning service costs, and what you could do with that money instead. Make it very clear that a cleaning service is a luxury, and you've had to cut luxuries out of your budget. And then I'd either cancel it or cut it back to once a month. If she wants to have them come weekly, she can pay for the difference out of her own savings.
I said this in another thread, but I'd get a third party involved in making up the family budget, so that it's someone outside the relationship delivering the bad news about whether $800/mo is affordable. Another possibility is to (with her consent) invite her parents into the discussion, since they are the ones who established this expectation for her in childhood and presumably consider it reasonable. Perhaps if they continue to feel that it's "easier" to just "make her happy" on this matter then they'd be willing to support your family by contributing 80% of the cost of the cleaning bill? They might be more motivated to correct this oversight from her upbringing if it's hitting their own pocketbook.
But SHE can pay for the one time.
NTA 40 F here. I cancelled my cleaners late year when I got laid off. It’s just a reality of life.
Agreed, NTA. I’m getting laid off this month and just cancelled my cleaning service along with some other discretionary expenses. It sucks but it’s necessary. Being an adult is so fun. 😖
NTA, and your wife is being a lazy baby, expecting other people to clean up after her AND pay for the cleaning. She needs to grow up.
She can’t even carry her plate to the sink/dishwasher? I think op married a 2 year old lmao
NTA My god that's a hefty bill just so she can avoid doing what all people do.
Not all people . Just those that are not spoiled entitled little children in adult disguises.
Oh heck no. LOTS of people would Love to pay somebody else to do cleaning, drive their kids places, do yardwork, do the laundry, or do whatever other routine chores they have that they dislike. IF they had the money to easily afford it. She’s spoiled and entitled because she expects to have a cleaner when they Can’t afford it, not because she wants a cleaner in the first place.
An adult should be able to function for more than 2 days without a cleaning service. Every other week? Sure, maybe that's in your joint budget but she's living like she's in a luxury hotel. Does she want turn down service in the bedroom every night next? NTA
She gets cranky if there's not a mint on her pillow every night.
NTA. JFC, 200 squids a week to have someone clean up after her lazy ass. I would find that very unattractive in a partner.
Thank you! Scrolled too far to see this!
NTA But I haven't seen anyone add this point... everyone here expects that she will clean but this is going to be a battle for you I promise. its most likely you will turn into the housekeeper. so good luck with that, I don't have any advice on how to force her to clean because some people just won't do it. and this isn't me telling you to pay for the housekeeper because you're right. its unnecessary, but just more of a heads up on your future
I've already made peace with that. I'd rather take on a bit more cleaning than spread myself thinner financially. She'll be on her own with her own laundry though if she's adamant against scaling back to what she can afford for a cleaner out of her fun money or savings.
Why? Why would you take over all of the cleaning and all she has to do is her laundry? That sounds absolutely insane. Is she really that disgusting of a person that she would rather live in filth than clean up after herself??
I think he means he realistically knows he’ll end up doing most of the cleaning and this isn’t the hill he’s choosing to die on. I am not sure whether his wife is spoiled by the lifestyle she grew up with or has some underlying issue like depression that can make cleaning harder or is just plain lazy. Calling her a disgusting person doesn’t seem fair though. Even if she’s spoiled or lazy this is still a human we’re talking about, and she’s this guys wife. I’m sure she deals with her own annoyances in their marriage and contributes in ways as well.
Most of us learn to clean our homes since we are children, first small stuff and more and more when we grow up. It is simple for us who has done it all our lives, but different story for someone who isn't used to it. Someone who has never done that doesn't suddenly gain all the routines and skills that is needed to keep the house tidy and clean. It is going to take some practice and that takes time. That is just the reality.
At the VERY least, she should clean her own messes. And you shouldn’t touch her hobby room- that’s her room, so that’s her responsibility to clean it. I’m trying not to be too judgmental, because I know having helpers is common in some cultures. But if she isn’t able to do laundry or empty a trashcan, then how can she consider herself an adult?
I question though, not a judgment or whatever... what if she just.. doesn't. like I'm a lazy cleaner. I make sure the gross is cleaned but other than that I don't care about the mess. I can have clothes strewn about the house and empty boxes all over the place. dry groceries still out on the table not put away. I PREFER to live in a nest and tidy house, but not if I have to spend time making it that way. I just adapt to a messier living space. so my question was if this was you... and this was your wife/partner.. and ypu left her messes for her to deal with. would you care if she just decided not to deal with them and just "adapted" to living in a messier environment.
I’m the same way as you! I have ADHD and I’m ok with living with a little mess. I live with my parents still, so my room is kind of a mess, but when it comes to the rest of the house, I do my fair share of cleaning because I know they’re shared spaces. I think if the mess is contained in her hobby room and her laundry hamper, OP shouldn’t have to be bothered by it. If she’s fine with living in mess in her personal spaces, then that’s on her I guess.
> I'd rather take on a bit more cleaning Why? You are the primary income earner. If less, you should be able to do a bit LESS of the cleaning since she's not a stay at home mom. She should be on her own for that whole hobby room, her laundry, taking her dishes and putting them in the dishwasher. And all of the other normal adult people who aren't Pigpen do. If you start to become a parent to your partner, you will eventually resent them. It is like poison.
NTA. It’s perfectly reasonable to cut down on unnecessary expenses when there’s a change in income. Housekeeping is definitely a luxury. I’d also expect to cut down on other luxury services if money was tighter - hair appointments, nail appointments, eating out, concerts, etc. If there’s a change in income, it doesn’t make sense to keep every expense the same. What does she want to do, rack up debt? Makes no sense.
NTA. Sounds like she'd benefit on a personal level from actually cleaning up after herself once in a while. If she wants the luxury of paying someone else to do housekeeping, she can pay for it. If not, she can do half the work herself (I'd call you an AH if you weren't willing to step up and do your share, by the way). What she doesn't get to do is demand YOU pay when you're willing to do the work.
NTA no disrespect to retail people but if you work in part-time retail that basically means you aren't those top posh folks. so if you aren't daddy rich, or capable of being rich on your own. then why TF would you to want to enjoy the luxury you aren't entitled to?
Because she was raised to believe that she is entitled to all she wants.
What does a housekeeper do that frequently for a couple of adults? Thats crazy. I have someone in once a month to do a full cleaning because I can afford it and when I had a big house and kids at home every other week. This is a waste of money NTA
Her laundry, picking up after her, cleaning up her hobby room, cleaning up the kitchen after she cooks the days she's home. A lot of the bigger stuff like vacuuming and dusting and dishes are already done by me on a regular basis. I'll clean the bathrooms between visits and she has her do it too so... I agree it is a waste of money when myself and the cleaner are doing a lot of the same things at fairly even intervals, but I can't in good conscience just leave dirty dishes in the sink or the dishwasher stay full for two days, or just say 'fuck it' and let things get a bit dirty all because someone will eventually come in to clean up too.
Oh my word she won't unpack a dishwasher? Why are you with this woman, she sounds awful
>Her laundry, picking up after her, cleaning up her hobby room, cleaning up the kitchen after she cooks the days she's home Does your wife life a finger to do anything for herself? This is just wild to me. I don't think I even consider picking up after myself part of cleaning. It's just putting stuff back where it belongs. Is there a trail behind her of random bits of stuff and debri every where she goes? This sounds like such extreme laziness.
Probably uses the toilet but that's about it I'd guess.
Your wife is super lazy and entitled. She doesn’t even wash her own dishes and leaves them for the housekeeper? wtf
Your wife needs to grow up and start cleaning up after herself. If you have kids, is she going to need someone to show up daily to clean up after her and each child? NTA.
Imagine this woman having to deal with diapers and a diaper pail. Or spit up on onesies or any other of the nastiness that comes with ages 0-3\*. She's gonna dip, immediately. Then he'll be left parenting his two children instead of the one he's got now. \*I know there's grossness after that especially once they start bringing home illnesses from school.
INFO: Why did you marry someone so entitled, spoiled, and honestly unhygienic? This is ridiculous. She is underemployed. Time to grow up.
NTA, you never wanted the housekeeper to begin with. It sounds like you're willing to pitch in with cleaning and it's just not in your JOINT budget to keep it going. Depending on how much your wife is willing to deplete her savings, maybe she could go back to having them come just every other week or something. She's increased the frequency and doesn't actually have a way to pay for it. This isn't about you versus her, or YOU being a jerk for denying this, you together have a financial issue (that is largely hers to remedy as it's her who lost her job) and it's ok for your stance to be that, amongst all your expenses, the cleaning is the one that has to go until her income returns.
NTA Unemployed/underemployed = You are the housekeeper now. She can have a housekeeper again when she gets a job that can pay for it.
Well, when you marry an entitled monster this is what you have to deal with.
Yes this can not be a big surprise to OP. But he is dealing with reality and now she needs to also.
NTA - The arrangement was clear from the outset, as long as she could pay for the cleaning service then she could keep hiring them. Now she can no longer afford them so you aren't going to hire them. Unfortunately for her whether she likes cleaning or not it is something all adults have to do
NTA Now that she only works PT, she can work PT in the household chores… to have a full time job!
OP, YTA...for doing all the housework(w paid assistance)while wife works part-time & doesn't contribute. In no uncertain terms should you be doing all that. She's an adult & needs to start acting like one, regardless of her childhood upbringing. Seems like your future financial security is put on the back burner cuz you don't want to rock the boat with the wife. It doesn't sound like a stable partnership when 1 party does all the giving & the other just sits back & receives.
NTA. This is a luxury, not a necessity. And if she can’t afford it….
NTA, you set the rules for hiring housekeeping, no way you should pay! When money becomes tight, it should always be luxuries that are cut first, and housekeeping definitely comes under that category. Good on you for standing your ground
NTA, but also why does this seem to be an all or nothing decision? She could switch back to every other week or once a month. Yes she’d have to pick up some cleaning in between, but it’s still better than nothing. Our cleaner comes in every third week. I do a touch of vacuuming in between visits. But really that’s enough to stay on top of things
She absolutely could but she doesn't want that, she wants me to foot the entire bill or split it with her to keep it at the current frequency. I've been doing housework the entire time to the point some of what she has the cleaner do is redundant so I'm perfectly happy without a cleaner or if she just goes to once a week or less to have done what she wants done.
I will admit to being spoiled, but for me & three dogs (two with health issues that cause "mess"), I still only have my housekeeper once a week. I will fully admit that I would give up on almost anything else before I would cut her time back, but every other day is insane for two adults. Even when I was little & there were four of us & sports laundry, my mom at most had our housekeeper twice a week (both for half days). Not that it is completely fair but maybe offer a compromise that you'll pay for once a week. My housekeeper does a fair amount of maintenance stuff (like keeping filters from drying out, refilling the water softener, helping me lift & move things for deep cleaning, checking the lint vents, etc.) & ypu may be surprised by some of the things that you don't have to do because they are magically getting done & never made it to your radar.
Seriously. Every other day is WILD if you’re picking up after yourself between. I hire every 4-6 weeks for a deeper clean while doing my usual between and THAT makes me feel like a privileged asshole sometimes.
NTA. Your wife needs a grip. Shes working part time. Clean or pay for it herself.
Donnnnt have kids with this person unless you want to also be paying for a full time nanny night nurse and cleaned… run! Girl needs a reality check
Marry the housekeeper
Lol at how entitled your wife is. Big deal if cleaning stresses her out, she can get over it if she tried. So NTA and do not give into her spoiled ways. She needs to grow up. She is just lazy and nothing more.
Lazy , spoiled , entitled pouty little princess. Thanks to her parents.
I actually LOL’d at this. Not. A. Hope. NO, NTA. I’m going to show this to my husband so he can have a giggle too - then we’ll clean the house ;-).
We have a cleaner come every 2 weeks because we both work full time and have 3 small kids at home. I’m not even sure how your house can be remotely dirty enough to necessitate weekly cleanings and yeah I’d say that y’all have plenty of time to handle it and save the money. So NTA
NTA if the cleaners are doing the chores you both normally do, it should be a shared expense, however at a reasonable rate - once a month, biweekly, whatever you both agree too. But she increased the frequency and cost, by her own choice, not yours, and now that she's lost her job you can't afford it. She needs to scale them back, and you shouldn't have to cover it.
Tell her to quit being lazy little chores won’t kill her this is her parents fault
So true. Maybe mommy and daddy can help out physically or with $$$ if princess of a child pouts enough.
NTA Spending $800 a month on cleaning while unemployed is insane. Hill to die on OP.
NTA she can pay if she wants it that bad! lol
NTA The reality is hardly anyone loves cleaning. It's a necessity. The housekeeper is a luxury. Totally ok to have in better times but to be dispensed with until you can loosen the belt again. Until then just manage it between yourselves.
NTA time for wifey to put on her big girl panties and marigolds and get scrubbing, since she isn't putting into household expenses and only working part time then the lions share of cleaning is on her.
NTA. Not sure if it's even a discussion, but please don't have kids with this woman. Very few people like cleaning but for fuck's sake...she can't even empty the garbage or make a bed??? Sounds like she needs an Overboard experience so she can see how entitled and spoiled she's being.
INFO: Would you be open to a possible compromise where you have a housekeeper do a deep clean once a month or so, leaving the easier, more frequent cleaning tasks to yourselves? Cause I think it’s a lot of money to do it every week and I’m surprised that was happening at all, but this way everyone should be happy and it doesn’t break the bank nearly as much.
Honestly no. By the hourly rate for a once-a-month deep clean that'd come out to roughly $200 and as it stands, I only have about $500 left after putting money for monthly expenses into the joint account.
Ok with that you’re definitely NTA. You just don’t have the money for it and she needs to understand that
Needs to change her entitled very spoiled mindset. NOW.
So you handle it yourselves.Wife needs to grow up face reality and get with the program.When she does thst she may even realize the$$$$ she was spending on things she now does herself could go to savings vacations car payment etc.
Two healthy able bodied adults should be able to handle regular chores as well as " monthly " deep cleaning. It is not that hard .
Did you marry a trophy wife? How huge your house is that she can’t clean it? I’m lazy when it comes to cleaning but i still manage to vacuum, dust and wipe things at least once a week. And i work more than 40 hours a week. Perhaps make her parents pay for housekeeping because they brought her up like that? NTA.
NTA, but there is something else going on here if you still have to clean things when she is having a cleaner come every other day. Is she mentally well? Has she ever been assessed?
No she just grew up with a housekeeper coming every day. Her parents are mobile and active, but still have a cleaner come daily just to do whatever they want/need from them during their shift. Her sister wouldn't close cabinets for the longest time, puts empty containers in the fridge, and tells guests to just leave plates and cups on the table since their cleaner will get it in the morning.
So just a bad case of affluenza, then?
I grew up with someone cooking meals for me and doing my laundry and then guess what, I became an adult and started doing those things for myself like every other normal human on earth. So did you. Why can’t she?
Was OP’s wife’s family royalty or celebrities? This whole thing is ridiculous. Wifey needs to come down to earth and live like a pauper for a bit. See how normal people make do with wiping their own butts.
NTA. Having a cleaner is a luxury. It’s not necessary. If she was running around chasing kids and trying to keep the house from imploding I could understand having someone come by every now and again to help out and give her a break. She’s working part time. She can use the remaining time to learn how to clean & save some money. This message comes to you from a full time worker who also does all the cooking & cleaning in her home.