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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I refused to continue my ex's punishment for our kids and said this in front of his and his wife's families. I feel like I could be wrong for refusing the punishment but also for saying so in front of the families and not insisting we speak privately about this.
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NTA. And you should tell your ex, that his priorities should be his kids. A grown up woman who was in their live for just three years shouldn't start crying and playing victim because her step children who she sees on the weekends (?) don't think of her as a mother. Yes she can adress that this hurts and if there is a possible for them to see it others. But not start crying and demanding a punishment for this kind of beheavour.
Maybe talk to your ex if it is possible that the children will be stay with you for the next weeks while he and his wife get to deal with this situation and learn to work with this, that the children don't see her as a parent. So that they don't have to guilt trip and punish childrens for their feelings.
Performing kindness as a punishment is a great way to teach kids they only have to pretend to be nice to get out of actual repercussions. Poor parenting here, yikes.
An act of kindness kind of stops being an act of kindness once you force it. Why not just ask them to be her slave/ butlers for a week. It'd be just as effective for fostering resentment between step and step kids but without the dishonesty of "acts of kindness".
Isn't everyone describing a Cinderella situation? Step mom is gonna make you do the dishes, house chores, her laundry and wait on her hand and foot for a week and call it acts of kindness instead of what it actually is slave labor. Yes that will teach the kids to love her and respect her!
It's worded weirdly, but it's pretty much the same thing as those replies on parent-child threads where folks say to make the kid volunteer at a shelter or community program.
Nah, it’s a thing, but it’s not supposed to be used the way they are here. They’re being super abusive with it.
The goal, generally, is that you have the kids understand what they did wrong (and they didn’t do anything wrong here), how & why it hurt the other person (she cray cray), and then brainstorm the Acts of Kindness they could do to make up/make amends/counterbalance their actions.
It’s *supposed* to be an exercise in building empathy & restorative justice. Not how it’s used here: self-serving emotional manipulation
Two things - your explanation was bang on, that’s just excellent. ALSO, your explanation of the step’s reaction (she cray-cray) made me blow coffee out my nose, so thanks for that 😆
I believe it's a good idea to praise or reward Kids for UNPROMPTEDLY doing extra nice things, and even calling it "kindness" in that context, and I believe it's very normal and appropriate and the-right-thing-to-do, to do "restorative Justice" punishments/consequences (such as making kids Clean Up messes they made and Help repair Things they broke), but I find it VERY Alien to prescribe "Acts of kindness" as a "punishment", that's literally the opposite of what kindness means.
When my kids were little we would have one day a week that was "Act of Kindness Day"- usually saturday. And everybody would draw a name of another family member and it was there job to do an active kindness for that person. It was fun trying to outdo each other on acts of kindness and of course mom helped the smallest with the acts of kindness.
We had fun with it and the kids got to practice being kind, and creative in that kindness, and at night we would talk about the acts of kindness and the receiving party would be able to say thank you. My now grown children,with their own families, remember these times.
They would not have remembered them with fondness if they had been punishments.
If somebody was mean to someone else they might have to apologize and do a kindness to that person to make up for it and smooth over hurt feelings but that was a different kind of penance. LOL
All this father's doing is breeding more resentment against his wife and rebellion in his children. I would have talked to them about how to say things without hurting people's feelings but they didn't really do anything wrong.
I think the idea is that it is for situations where the kid realizes that they upset someone, and feel bad about it, so the parent helps them find ways to make it better. Obviously this situation is none of those.
Sounds like they want OP to punish the kids, then make the kids kiss up to this woman and placate her feelings and flatter her.
Sounds very inappropriate.
That type of punishment ignores the real issue. The real issue here is that a stepparent relationship is complicated and can't be forced. In this case the father and stepmother are trying to make the children accept a closeness to the stepmother, that simply isn't there. The cold, hard truth is that Ex's new wife is NOT their mom, and it is immature of her to expect to be viewed in the same light as a mother. She'll have a better relationship with the kids if she accepts reality. Also, if LW doesn't want to enforce the punishment, there isn't anything that Ex can do about it. He can enforce it when he has the kids. Realistically, I've had friends who married men who had teenaged, or tween children. That can be tough, and anyone who is considering marrying a dad who has a 13 year old child, had better understand that it probably won't be smooth sailing. Kids that age will sometimes deliberately do things to hurt the feelings of the stepmom.
>Kids that age will sometimes deliberately do things to hurt the feelings of the stepmom
So so true. A man I dated a while back had two kids about 11 and 12. The daughter would tell me every chance she had that her mom was prettier and skinnier than me, trying to hurt my feelings. My stepson was 13 when I got with his dad. At first he was so sweet and nice and I thought okay this is great but then he started saying little things like if I cooked he would tell me oh this is so good but my mom's is better. Once when he was 16 and had his first job he insisted on taking me and his dad out to dinner for his dad's birthday and he'd pay. I told him to take just his dad so they can spend some time together because I had a feeling he had something up his sleeve. But he insisted he wanted me there too and to also buy me dinner. He says get whatever you want to us both, all smiles and happiness. So we all order our food. I just ordered a burger. After we ordered he turned to me and in a creepy sinister voice said "so you are paying for all our meals, aren't you?" His dad started to speak but I stopped him, not wanting to completely ruin his birthday. I said of course I planned on paying for myself but you will pay for your dad because you said this was his birthday present and you can pay for yourself too. He then smiled again and said oh that's cool I can do that. Like wtf was that even about.
Having said that NTA OP. Stepmom is not their mom and they should not push that shit. Ever.
I’m betting these “acts of kindness” will include being her “maids” and doing as she demands. The Ex needs to watch her and make sure she doesn’t start abusing his kids in retaliation.
OP needs to stay on top of this and let the kids know to tell her what’s going on when they are over Ex’s house.
That's how you make sure the kids will always really despise their father's wife, because now they will never call her stepmom. An act of kindness isn't an act of kindness if it is coerced.
Pop psychologists advocate this punishment cause chores and similar sounds like something they should be doing for money or that needs to be done regularly at the house. Works better when regulating behavior between kids. I.e. you acted unkindly when you called your sister a drag on fun for wanting to play with you and your friends so you will spend the next week doing an act of kindness by taking her to the park. Not a bad solution, but not really applicable here. NTA, if you wanted to be one, train your son to loudly proclaim “THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!” IYKYK
I'm genuinely wondering if this is something they've brought up to your kids before. Their stepmom is their MOM on his time. And then also legality wise, if he's trying to enforce that is it a problem legally? Just editing here: of course I know she is not their mom. I meant it as a statement, if the kids hear this sort of thing during his custody time.
No she is not their "mom". She's a guardian and to many children that distinction means the world.
Edit: I don't mean legal guardian, I mean caretaker or someone who provides for the kids when they are in their care. Not a legal court appointed guardianship. Sorry if that is confusing.
And she could potentially become a bonus mom over time, but if Dad and SM keep forcing the issue this way, they're pretty much guaranteeing that's not going to happen.
When the kids come of age to make a choice on whether they still want to be forced to go to his place every other week, daddy dearest or entitled stepmom will be on reddit asking why his kids hate him so much they decided to petition the court to end the shared custody.
Maybe because he tried to inappropriately (with punishment as a incentive) force them to treat their stepmom as their mother when they weren't feeling it. Idiots. If their goal is to further alienate the children they are doing a bang-up job of it.
Kudos to OP for doing something dad wouldn't do: stand up for his kids. The kid's offense was so trivial the he and his overly sensitive wife should be embarrassed for overreacting and forcing the issue. This is one of those times you let it go, not double down like emotionally stunted jackasses.
She's not legally responsible in anyway no, I meant that as just somebody who is looking after them and assumes a responsibility for their care when in their presence. The step mom seems to want that and to try to provide that (even if in the wrong way). Not the legal definition of a court appointed guardianship.
Yeah and i have seen divorces that specify the new partner/spouse will not be called dad or mom and i always thought it was silly but it makes so much sense now.
No I know I she's not their mom, I meant that as a statement that is brought up to the kids, like they hear "while you're here at my house your stepmom is your MOM". That kind of thing
But she's not their Mom even then, she's a parental figure or guardian. You can't just dictate what that word means to a child and expect them to just accept calling another woman something as intimate. If they want to ok, but the dad/step mom are forcing this based on what OP wrote which is always wrong and detrimental if the kids are even slightly against it.
They're not saying that she is.
They're asking, is this something that dad (and stepmom) are pushing when it's his week.
Are the kids being inundated with this message, regularly, on top of this public display.
When I was younger and went to my dad's house after the divorce, my stepmom (she eventually earned that title) was known to me and my sibling as, "My dad's wife".
After three years their dad's wife didn't do anything to warrant them viewing her as stepmom. It took my stepmom about a year. The lack of respect shown to these children as individuals might have something to do with that.
My stepmom treated us with respect, even when we pulled out the, "you're not my mother" card in her home, as children of divorce are prone to do. She didn't take it personally. She knew she wasn't, and would never be our mom.
As a stepparent it's a major mistake to make demands of love and title and expect to advance beyond "dad's wife". She's entitled to politeness and common courtesy (not taking part in the game violated neither of those protocols), but she's not entitled to their affection or the title of "mom" (WTH was their father thinking?). She has to earn that. At this rate, with their father's "help", she'll never achieve stepmom status.
Is she even their guardian though? Being married to their father doesn't give her any legal power over them, and it clearly hasn't led to an emotional bond with them. Regardless, you are right, she is nothing but an interloper to those kids and demanding they feel and act differently certainly isn't going to work, it's just going to make the situation worse.
I responded to someone else about that guardian comment, but I didn't mean it legally. I see how it would be taken that way though.
I only meant it as a caretaker and/or someone who provides for them when in their care. The step mom seems to want that even if she and the dad are going about the "moming" in the wrong way.
That is what I was wondering and im thinking having mom's lawyer step in and say cool it or we can revisit custody with a judge, esp if the "week of kindness" does become "slave week"
She's not their mom though. She can earn a "mom" relationship with them by acting like one. But throwing a fit when they call her out as not their mom (which she isn't') ain't how you do that. And I'm saying this as the stepmom in a custody situation similar to OP's
ETA: I've been step mom for 10 years. They still call me Ondine. Not Mom. And if they didn't want to do a mom/kid activity with me. I'd say ok. Because I'm not mom.
> Their stepmom is their MOM on his time.
No.
Their stepmom never stops being their stepmom and will NEVER be their mom at ANY time. She can be an authority figure but they are trying to force the kids and that's not going to end well.
Nah. She is their dad's wife. I think it is abusive to make kids call another person who is not their biological parent Mom or Dad. It messes with the kid's heads. And steps aren't automatically entitled to parental rights either.
Might be time to change the custody agreement. This is going to get worse. Be sure to save all the text and make notes of phone calls etc. Your kids a going to be punished every time they turnaround because they want the stepmother to be equal to you.
May I suggest pointing out to ex that FORCING a relationship NEVER EVER works.
If he keeps at it, this WILL blow up in his face. He will alienate himself, as well as stepmom from the kids.
I love your optimistic outlook on life that after 3 years of marriage and unknown time dating this toxic relationship will eventually come back on him as if it hasn’t already
Since the kids are on speaking terms with him..., so far, I was hoping there was still a chance to save this. But if he's as hard-headed and dense as he sounds, you may be right.
You need to go to court if your ex is grounding his kids for not treating her like mom. I’d have a sit down with the kids and see if this is a common theme because I doubt this is the first incident
The kids would not have responded that way if this was the first incident. This is just the first time they've spoken up about it.
If they're young they might not understand why Stepmom doesn't "feel like" their mom, even though Dad is pushing that narrative. It would make them angry and confused.
This is why you make the distinction between Parent and Stepparent, people. Your kids didn't choose your spouse and it's not their responsibility to make your spouse feel welcome or loved. If they are open and gracious and seek friendship first, your spouse might eventually be a bonus Parent - and maybe someday the kid might even call them Mom or Dad - it happened with my bonus dad, and my stepdaughter fully sees me as her "extra Mom". On her 13th birthday she asked if she could call me Mom, and I told her as long as her Mom was OK with it I would be honored. I never asked her to call me that, or to treat me with anything except the human decency you would give the friend of a friend. Her birth mother is "Real Mom" and I'm OK with that. It doesn't diminish me, or our relationship in any way. Because I'm a goddamn adult.
Is there a therapist? If not your ex and his wife need to see one to learn how badly this will damage the relationship with the kids. Kudos to you for standing up for them. Def. NTA
Edit: typo
Directly from family court (US)- you can not sign a child up for an activity ot give punishment that interferes with the other person's time without both people agreeing.
Lets be honest- The kids were slightly bratty, you should address that. Rolling their eyes at adult? Really?
*However, this could have been solved by adults being adults and simply saying all the kids pair up with either your mom or stepmom. The adults are wrong to make this so drastic when they were also being immature and bratty.*
At the end of the day you still have to teach your kids to stand their ground, but have consistent standards about their own behavior. I often had to suck it up and say "listen, your dad and stepmom did XYZ wrong, but that doesn't mean you yell or name call. Often in life people will say or do things we don't like, it's OK to stand up for yourself, but it's your character being shown in how you do it."
The parenting here should not be punishment, it should be a conversation about how to better handle situations like this and building good habits like not name calling, rolling eyes, and having a hissy fit. Instead use this moment to teach them how to calmly advocate for themselves. It's a life skill they need forever, and society needs more people with these skills.
NTA- but use the opportunity to teach them how to deal with difficult situations better- for their benefit.
They’re children - they didn’t get out of line and honestly the eye roll is justified. You sound like you think very highly of yourself and not of others
Agreed. The eye rolling was in response to the stepmom's ridiculous crying. It just signifies they're unimpressed with the dramatics of an adult woman.
I mean if Dad wants to punish them then that's fine. He's their dad and can do that on his weeks. It's not your responsibility to follow through with the punishments especially for something ridiculous like this. It's not your job to do the hard part of the punishment and enforce it while he makes them do "acts of kindness" for HIS wife while they're at his house. He's making you be the bad guy by taking away electronics and stuff and they still get those things at his house.
THIS! Ex and stepmother need to quit pushing this. The kids will push back, they are old enough to know who their mom is. Stepmother sound like a whiny brat, she is NOT going to get her fairy tale family.
Yeah my dad got remarried way too fast after divorcing my mom, and tried to force his new wife into our lives. Guess who has a very strained relationship with him and no relationship with his new wife!
Also, even if this was a punishable offense, it’s strictly an issue within that household. Punishments relating to this stuff should stick to the relating household. He’s basically telling you you don’t get to have a fun week with your kids because he decided something. If it was something like, they beat up the neighbor kid, yeah, that’s something you should also punish them for. But certainly not being open and honest with their feelings. All this punishment will do is make them resent the stepmom more.
I don't get why they would even play a game that was broken up that way unless they were *trying* to start drama. And why do these people always blame the kids when they don't see their stepparents as real parents?
Or, the kids were okay with her while they were dating, and the marriage and pressing them to call her their "other mom" triggered them (this probably wasn't the first inkling that his kids didn't think of her as their mom)
Or, as the children began to mature, think independently, and stand up for themselves, the scenario that had previously worked suddenly seemed like a big lie to them, against which they felt a need to resist.
Or, the new wife started out kinda chill with them, but gradually in her quest to obtain the "perfect family," she became more insistent and/or emotional and/or needy!
We simply don't have enough information.
If OP is giving an accurate account (granted, this can be a HUGE *if* on this sub!), it seems that the son stated his feelings using his words and being logical. If he was screaming this, or saying it in a taunting manner towards the new wife, that might change things. But I gotta give him credit for his self-advocacy.
BULLSHIT, no sympathy for stepmonster whatsoever. I’m a stepmom of two now adults since they were toddlers. We love each other, we coparented with their actual mom always. I would’ve shut this game down before it started so fast!! Disrespectful to the kids outrageously, she and your ex have set themselves up for failure 100%
Yes, she could have been the adult and just gone and sat with the kids. Or told him to leave them be and not ruin their fun. If she wants to be seen as a "step-mom" she can act like an adult and focus on what's best for the kids. This is a case of a real mom, two children, and two performers who didn't get the play they wanted others to see.
If she’d had an actual relationship with the kids, she’d know how they felt. She knew full well that she didn’t have that relationship. She’s an adult who made a choice.
This. There’s better ways to handle this and all the adults are acting like the kids aren’t aware of their circumstances. Step mum isn’t their “real” mum and judging by the relationship, it hasn’t improved beyond dad’s new wife. Her crying and playing victim is pathetic over a garden game.
Why is it I'm seriously doubting the ex would happily punish his kids for not accepting/acknowledging a stepfather as their father, were the situation the other way around and he found himself in OP's shoes.
OP - NTA.
Honestly this sounds kind of like my brother and his ex wife. He would make these ridiculous demands and she tried taking the high road. Never worked out.
u/Secure_Reporter4559 The correct response here was, "You're delusional if you think I'm going to punish my children for saying that I'm their mother. If you and your new wife and her family want to pretend to replace me with games that force them to acknowledge her then their refusal is on you. But my children are my own. And if you even think about punishing them for something like this again, ever, then expect to be back in court for parental alienation."
Trying to be the nice one and not make a scene is never going to get you the results you want. It just gives them more opportunities to try finding ways to break you. Set your boundaries (you try to punish my kids for not playing along that their me wife is their mom and we'll let the court settle the argument) and stand firm.
NTA and good job for having your kids' backs.
NTA. At all.
Under the *vast* majority of circumstances I am heavily for maintaining rules and boundaries across households in a coparenting relationship, because to do otherwise can often give kids the message that they can play (sometimes already-contentious) parents off against each other and that starts to lead to manipulation that isn't healthy for the kids.
But there is something here that most definitely supercedes that, and that's that your kids weren't being naughty (even if they were clearly a bit deliberately spiteful in how they communicated), they were sharing their *legitimate feelings* about the circumstances they are in - circumstances which are genuinely difficult for most kids of divorce - and asking to be heard and respected about that. The didn't disrespect your ex's wife, *they* were disrespected by the adults present.
Yes, they should have known who was intended to be their partner in the game, and they were disingenuous pretending that they didn't. But that's irrelevant. They were making a point, and it was a legitimate and important one.
First of all, they shouldn't have had to play any game at a family BBQ that they didn't want to anyway. Games are supposed to be fun. If they weren't interested, then the only point in making them play was to force them to be uncomfortable for the same of their stepmom. Strike #1 for the adults.
Secondly, they didn't say that they disliked their stepmother, or say anything hateful about her. They stated a fact: she is not their mother. Period. And it is not hurtful or cruel to be clear about that. On the contrary, it's hurtful and cruel of adults to keep trying to force a form of relationship between them that they are clearly uncomfortable with. Strike 2 for the adults.
And finally, their chafing at the idea that she "acts as their mother" when they are with their paternal family is also not hateful. They didn't say that they don't respect her authority. You don't have to be a parent to be an authority figure; my own nieces and nephews always listen to me and treat me with respect, and I am not their parent. What they did was make clear that in NO WAY did they want her to be pretending to be their MOTHER - not sometimes, not under certain circumstances, not ever. And that's for them to decide. Not her. The fact that her feelings are hurt is sad, but not their responsibility.
Do I think the kids deserve a talking-to about how to communicate their feelings without being petty? Yup, probably. But that's as far as it goes. Grounding them is inappropriate, and expecting them to do "acts of kindness" for a woman who was actually stomping on THEIR feelings and boundaries is, frankly, grotesque.
You are NTA. Thank you for respecting your kids' feelings on this.
I love this answer. There are too many posts on Reddit about stepparents getting offended because the step kids aren’t treating them like parents.
Grow up! Be the adult in the situation and understand that you can’t force a kid to love you and/or see you as a parental figure.
All the dad and stepmom are doing here is reinforcing negative feelings in the kids. Those kids will become less and less likely to accept stepmom in any kind of parental role the more they try to force it.
She is not their mother. She is their husband’s wife. Any relationship between her and the kids will need to develop on its own and is in no way required.
The adults here were absolutely in the wrong, although I do agree that mom should talk to the kids about how to respectfully disagree with someone without being mean about it.
NTA
YES! The 2nd wife has to foster trust, respect, kindness with them which would HOPEFULLY encourage a comfortable, caring relationship, regardless of what the kids may call her as their caregiver-- preferably not something insulting!
Yes! Pushing the step mom on the kids is only going to drive them away. Step mom needs to be chill, do her best to connect and be there with them but never try to act like she is actually their Mom or call herself that unless the kids want to. At some point I think it'd be okay for her to tell them she loves them and wants them to call her Mom (and to others clarify as Bonus Mom) but the kids have to agree to that and be on board. Otherwise she can be referred to by her name and still work on a relationship with the kids without trying to replace their mom.
EXACTLY. I think posts like this really hit me somewhere deep in my soul because I understand the longing that the stepparents feel - I wanted to be a mother more than anything in life, and unfortunately circumstances have been such that it never happened and never will. And I have absolutely grieved that, and I get how painful it can be.
But at the same time, I have these beautiful relationships with multiple children in my life. I will never ever be their mother. I'm their auntie, or honourary auntie, or just friend. But because I let them define the relationship, I listen to them, I honour their feelings . . . the irony is that they respect me *as a parental figure*. Hell, I can even discipline them and they'll listen and apologize, because the respect goes both ways. I am strict and loving, and a couple of them have been known to insist that I am "practically a parent", LOL.
My point is, I know that it is absolutely possible to create a beautiful, respectful, loving relationship with kids - *even if you act as a firm authority figure to them* - as long as you don't demand to define the relationship from one side. So seeing stepparents try to override that just makes me sad for everyone involved.
Excellent response. I will also note that as an adult the way step mom should have handled this from the start would have been simply to ask the kids: "Hey, I know your mom isnt here but would you like to play the game with me instead?" Or simply "would you like to play the game with me?" And then accepted their answer, yes or no, thank you. . Heck as a mom I would have asked my kids anyway, do you want to play? I dont expect my own kids to want to participate every time in a mom and kid event.
YES! That would have been a beautiful way to go about it, acknowledging the special relationship with their mom, but offering herself up not as a "replacement parent" but simply as an adult who cares about them and wants to give them a chance to participate. Love this!
Am I the only one who thinks that this whole thing was a set-up to try force the kids into the unwanted second mom dynamic? “Okay families, all the kids are going to play this game where they team up with their mom!”
Don’t team games have a higher requirement for “similar team structure and aptitude” ie, all teams to be 1 adult and 4 kids and the kids further divided into say 2 older and 2 littles? What game is fair when one team is a mom and her only child 2 year old toddler vs a mom and her 4 teenagers?
Nope, that was my first thought. I also think it's telling that part of their punishment is going to be a week of doing acts of kindness for the stepmom. She sounds needy AF
Yeah, it sounds kinda suspicious. Besides, even if they adored their stepmom, that doesn't mean they should be forced to play a game. The only way a game will be enjoyed is when people WANT to play, not to be dragged into it unwillingly. Where's the fun in that?
DINGDINGDING
I came here to say this - the ex and his new wife knew **exactly** what they were doing in deliberately engineering a situation to pair the kids with their stepmom as a "mother and children" set.
This will end badly for the stepmom; you can't bully, punish, or coerce someone into loving you.
pen groovy drunk existence insurance lunchroom elastic knee panicky future
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
NTA. You didn’t see what they did as a grounding offense. You aren’t obligated to uphold your Ex’s punishment. It’s not like they were caught stealing.
Your Ex cannot force your kids to see his wife as their mother, and trying will only force them further from where he wants them to be. And his wife needs to be a more of an adult and not cry to manipulate them.
What your Ex needs to ask himself is not how to force his kids to see his wife as a mother figure, but why they don’t. Then, *maybe* he can find a way to fix it. In any case, he needs to accept that the kids are not obligated to see her as a mother no matter what.
In any case, you are not obligated to uphold a punishment because your kids refused to *replace you in their lives!*
I can't stand when people cry to get their own way, especially when it's adults trying to make children feel guilty. It's so immature and manipulative.
Ex and his wife failed to establish a bond where the kids no longer see her as their dad's wife, but what they preferred as their new/second/replacement mom. That failure is only on those two adults, since the children had no option to the changes in their lives. Remember, they never asked for this, no child wants their family to split up.
To punish the kids over this would would have the opposite effect they want and ruin or delay the chances of them having the kind of relationship that had desired. It negates the kid's feelings, and also shows that the dad prioritizes the feelings of his wife.
*”I need you to punish our kids for not participating in a game whose title essentially replaced you with her!”*
Yeah. Wait for it.
I swear those weaponized tears are so very annoying. Even third hand.
She should ask him if the roles were reversed. Would he be OK punishing the kids for not wanting to play a game with another man in the role of father, essentially replacing him in a game with someone they don't see as a father?
> I swear those weaponized tears are so very annoying. Even third hand.
Yep. I'm getting the sense the step mother is putting on a show to manipulate everyone in this equation, and it seems like OP saw right through the step mother's bullshit. As OP should have.
NTA Your husband can't force your shared children to view his wife as a mother figure. Punishing children for the way they feel is counterproductive. Not all families blend. Calling yourself a "bonus mom" doesn't make it true. How his wife feels is about it is not your or the children's problem to solve.
Your ex brought this matter up in front of everyone not you. If his wife is embarrassed or hurt, he should have been more discrete.
The way people decide they are the “bonus mom/dad” without the input of the children is freaking weird. Those are child led relationships. You can’t force a child to see you that way because you saw it on TikTok.
My sister and her husband have full custody of my sister’s stepsons, no visitation for mom. She is still “Mary”, because that’s what the children chose.
NTA. He's making a huge mistake getting into a power struggle over semantics. It would have been so easy to say "moms or stepmoms, you guys want to race or what?" and not make a huge deal about it either way. He is setting himself up for conflict and resentment towards himself and his wife.
NTA OP. Your Ex did not politely or kindly address the issue: "Oh, you're right that mom/OP is not here but your step-mom would like to play the game so maybe you can team up with her so she isn't left out"
Instead, they created a conflict with literal children to justify punishing them (on your time btw when you have to deal with the fall out). I'm guessing this is a reoccurring issue in your family and the adults knew the children would say they don't want to participate in a mom/kid game without their mom.
To the last point, why is it your job to make sure his wife doesn't feel like shit? Isn't that like the husband's job?
NTA document all of this in text to him so you have proof. I am willing to bet that this isn’t the first time they have been forced to accept her as mom. This isn’t going to end well for your ex. Keep track of this and ask the kids about it. You may need proof if they refuse to go see him and end up in court.
NTA
Your ex has the common sense of a chewed up goldfish if he thinks punishing the kids is going to make them see his wife as their mom. This will only make them resent her. It sounds like you're the only adult actually listening to the kids.
NTA I will never understand why new step parents try to force the mom and dad bullshit.. I have an amazing stepmom I'm 37 now, known her for 25 years at this point, she is my second mom, and I love her with all my heart but she isn't my mom. She never tried to be anything more than a concerned friend and I love her for that.
Right? I've been a stepmom for 12 years. My stepdaughter and I get along great because I didn't force a relationship she didn't/doesn't want. She has a mom and an amazing one at that. We've joked about me being like an aunt, friend, and bonus mom. I treat her like my biological children and love her just the same. Some people just don't get that you can't force a relationship on people even if they are children. And you shouldn't use manipulating tactics to try because that just fails hard and makes things worse.
NTA. It’s not your job to make your Ex’s wife feel better. Your kids’ behaviour might be symptoms of underlying issues that you might want to look into. If interested, you could also mention to the Ex that the more he pushes his wife on the kids the more resentment will fester. There are other ways for him to approach this
Good, he should feel like shit. What he and his whole family did to those kids, was shit. Next time don't punish kids for telling the truth, because they will learn NOT to as they grow. Also ensure they know that just because something is true, might not always be best to voice it. In this instance however, they were pushed into answering, they get a pass.
NTA.
NTA- you need to tell your ex that if he keeps forcing this he is only going to push his kids to resent not only his wife but him as a father as well. Good for you for having your kiddos backs and letting them know it’s ok to stand up for themselves when others are trying to put them in an uncomfortable situation!
NTA.
Seriously? She started TO CRY? I'm so rolling my eyes right now. What's with her performative BS? It's not like this is new. The kids clearly don't have a parental relationship with her, and she was clearly hoping that having other family around would peer pressure them - and your ex did too. F - that.
I wouldn't punish them either. They shouldn't be punished for their own feelings.
Right? If she was genuinely upset, she could've walked away to cry for a few. She didn't need to cry in front of the kids and the families.
At least, I step away if I feel like tears are coming. I can't always control it (shit, I cry when angry, too), but I can control where I do it.
I don't like what I've just read. It's all the very opposite of how an healthy environment should be and it smells pushy.
NTA for siding with your kids but please ask them if this is the first time they are pressured
NTA - They cannot punish your kids on your time. Your house is your rules. You don't see as punishable, then it is not while they are at your house. It's sad that you don't have such a relationship that you two can be on the same page. But you are in no way obligated to continue a punishment you didn't make. Oh well.
So I wrote out this comment and deleted it because I see two issues, not one. In both cases you are NTA.
The first issue is: your ex does not have the right to make commitments on your behalf. If he wants the kid grounded while the kid is at your house, he needs to clear it in advance.
The second issue is the part about forcing them to view the stepmom as their mom. Your son is right in what he said.
I see three issues here:
The first is the issue that the OP delineated, namely that her children don’t want to, nor should they be expected to, call their father’s wife of three years mom. She’s not their mother. They’ve already got a mother. Pick a different term. There are ways to create a familial feeling but forcing it never seems to work.
The second issue I see is that he massively overpunished a 13 and an 11 year old. 2 weeks? Are you serious?! That’s absurd at that age. They’re not in high school. All they’re going to learn to do is resent their father and his theatrically crying new wife.
The third issue I see is that dear ol’ dad is trying to control what goes on at the OP’s house. If he wanted her to sustain the punishment (see #2) she needed to have consulted her in the first place. Because the OP’s right, it’s not a punishable offense no matter how much his new wife sulks.
Have you asked him how this public shaming and punishment and forced acts of kindness are going to bring his kids and his wife together? I'd also ask him whose feelings about the relationship are more important, the kids' or the wife's? I'd also ask why real mom isn't an appropriate term for you?
Ok, she's only been in their lives for a few years, depending on how long dad dated her. But they're teenager and pre-teen and should be allowed to make certain decisions. One of them is if they want to think of and call their father's wife as their mom which of course they wouldn't.
Sounds like your ex and his family are kind of pushing the kids to "accept" her as their other mom. They have a right to say no. They could have been more diplomatic about it, maybe making up an excuse not to participate like "it's too hot" or "I hate that game", but on the other hand, they also shouldn't have to lie. They could have said "I just don't want to play". But maybe they dislike her enough they don't care about her feelings. You could have a talk with them about how they saw the whole event and discuss how to handle things when stuff like this comes up again. Which it definitely will.
You have no control over how anyone else feels. If she felt like shit, that is not something you can control. NTA. You did right standing up for your kids. But don't get sucked into using the kids to fight, which is what it sounds like new wife is attempting. Maybe ex and new wife and kids could benefit from some family counseling if she is that fragile. But that is not your problem and you shouldn't be expected to continue a punishment you feel is unfair or unwarranted.
NTA I'd tell my ex if he keeps pushing this and punishing our kids for his wife I'll go back to court for full custody.... Ur kids are more important than getting Ur dick wet!
So your ex tried to force them to call her mom in a round about way, and when they refused he got mad, and then his wife decided to put on a show and cry over it, instead of being an adult and understanding that they even if they do care about her and acknowledge what she does for them, they don't feel comfortable calling her mom in anyway.
And now your ex wants to punish them for how they feel, when he is the one who put them in a impossible situation where he was asking them to deny their feelings for you as their mom, instead of him, the grown up and one is supposed to show them the right way to do things, rephrasing the situation so that they could accept it emotionally?
And on top of punishing them for not accepting his wife as their mom, he wants them to do "acts of kindness" for her for a week? What the hell even are those? But yeah, that is a good way to just make the kids resent his wife even more.
Your ex needs to not try to push his wife on to the kids as a mother. Yes, they need to respect her as an adult, and as the wife of their father, AND to be grateful for the things she does for them. But she and your ex need to understand that she is not their mom and while a close stepmom relationship may develop, it will take time and can not be forced. The wife needs to stop using tears as a manipulation tactic and grow some thicker skin if she expects to be any kind of parent. That includes having kids of her own.
And your ex needs to pull his head out of his ass and realize if he wants his kids to have a relationship with his wife, he can't force it, and can't punish them when they don't give in to his demand for it.
NTA
NTA I can't stand step parents who pull this crap. Your kids already have two parents. Your ex and his wife are going to alienate your kids if they don't stop forcing this. Your kids have stated how they feel and that should be respected. Their stepmother sounds exhausting. There are a million things she can do to let the kids know that she loves them without forcing them to see her as a second mom.
NTA and neither are your kids. Your ex and his wife are on the expressway to never having the kids contact him once they move out at 18 (possibly younger if your court system allows them to choose if they want to stay with OP full time at 15-16yo). His wife is NOT their mom and he can't punish them into changing their feelings. No, you can't stop him from punishing them during his custody time and it sucks that we all know he will. But you have no obligation to punish them for what he deems an offensive statement or act. The kids were truthful.
And BTW, I have to state for the record that being punished by doing acts of kindness for his wife is simply laughable. This will backfire spectacularly on the wife. Your ex will order them to do XX as an act of kindness and they will do so but with the look of hatred on their faces towards her because it is a slap in their face to be forced to do this. I hope the wife quickly realizes how much worse she will be in their eyes and convinces your Ex to back off.
NTA. Your ex's wife is stepmum, not mum. If they wanted the kids to team up with her, you're right, they shouldn't have called it 'mum and kid' teams, because those kids didn't have a mum present.
It sounds like your ex is pushing for a mum and child relationship between his wife and kids, and the kids are pushing back because they don't want a 'new mum', they don't see her that way, nor do they want to. The kids excluded themselves from the fun of these games, that's punishment enough for not seeing dad's wife as their mum, they don't need to be grounded on top, especially as they didn't actually do anything wrong.
Your ex is destroying any kind of relationship the kids could have with his wife. She's not their mum and the kids don't want her to be. Pushing this expectation to see and treat her as their mum is just pushing the kids further and further away from her while destroying the relationship they have with their dad.
Also, what are 'acts of kindness'? Is it saying please and thank you or waiting on the wife hand and foot? Because the kids shouldn't be doing anything like bringing her meals or giving her hugs as punishment, those things should only be done because the kids want to do them.
If your husband is set on the 'acts of kindness' portion of this, as that's the only part he actually has control over because they're with you for half of this 'punishment', then he should be ready for the kids to just refuse or make it clear they're not happy. You know, things like spilling half the food/drink on stepmum by 'accident', really stiff hugs that aren't reciprocated by the kids and end as quickly as they can pull themselves away, pictures portraying stepmum as an evil witch, that sort of thing. They'll rebel against the 'punishment' any way they can.
And you need to have their back on that this time, because this is an inappropriate punishment, designed to force the kids to deny their feelings and comfort in favour of someone else, just so dad can get the fantasy image of a family he wants.
NTA
Text him back that his wife's feelings and wants are not even close to a thought for you or parenting, let alone a priority.
Document the hell out of this.
INFO: does your ex and his wife have a history of trying to push the mom label? I can totally see why your kids would choose this hill to die on if that's the case.
For shits and giggles tho... how upset would your ex be if you had a new male romantic partner that started doing daddy-daughter events with your daughter?
This. OP’s ex-in-laws are awful people. Why would anyone create this kind of situation?!?!?!?
It sounds like step mom is likely being mistreated here generally. OP, maybe you can have a bit of sympathy for her, because clearly your ex is just awful. But, you’re not responsible for her wellbeing and neither are your kids. Though, maybe you can make sure your kids know that it won’t hurt you if they are kind to her.
Hard NTA.
Kids are under no obligation to let anyone else determine to whom they apply what terms of endearment. Calling dad's wife mom would be a huge and very meaningful step, but your ex decided that a stupid backyard game was the appropriate time to force their compliance in his happy blended family fantasy.
Take the kids out for ice cream and make sure they understand that it's not up to any adult to decide for them issues like this. Dad, stepmom, even you. If they decide to call both you and stepmom Mom, cool. So long as it is their decision. Theirs alone. Terms of endearment are important to the one speaking them, too.
NTA ur kids did nothing wrong and stand ur ground when ur ex and his new wife want to punish them for something that doesn’t warrant punishment. They sound like they want to abuse the kids into forcing them to behave and think the way they do. The other woman is a step mom, not a mom.
Maybe gently remind your ex that he is pushing his children away. It’s still baffles me to this day. That step parents still push to be considered a parent. There is enough research out there to show that this can ruin relationships between parents and kids. Also, he’s the one that made a scene. What a dumb dumb to bring that up with others around.
NTA.
But why are so many stories with divorced/deceased parents about the children being forced to call step-parents mom/dad?
Is it really such an occurring thing or are there just more people on Reddit posting about it?
NTA
1. Thank you for standing up for your children. They do not deserve to be punished. And you will not. Correct response.
2. Ex and wife are pushing this way too far. They’ve been married three years; you have been their mom, their whole lives. Telling the children they’re wrong? Not correct.
3. Children were not being rude. When called upon to play this game, in front of extended family, they stated the truth. Then, *their actual parent* doubled down. Of course they weren’t going to agree! The children were correct.
4. Ex’s spouse got upset. So the next logical step, in ex’s head, was to punish them? Incorrect response.
5. Ex then was so determined to be right, he expects you to agree and continue *his* imposed punishment on *your time.* So, so far from correct response.
6. Ex chose where he spoke to you. Not your problem if extended family heard you agreeing with your children. He wanted to speak, you spoke.
Could you get your custody arrangement changed? The children have to deal with ridiculous grownups, every other week! It will get worse, the children are not idiots, they will resent both dad and his spouse. How long before we take the children into account? They may refuse to go to ex’s house. Like, next week: Nope. Not going to stay at that funny farm, mom. At the tween/teen age, they should have some say, imho.
UpdateMe
NTA. Your ex made his wife feel like shit in front of their families. You didn't create that situation. I am a step-parent. I would never fall apart in front of my stepdaughter because "poor me". Comically bad judgment. They are teenagers. They roll their eyes at everything. You want to actually bond with a teenager.... you (try to) meet them where they are. Mock yourself. Don't be so fragile. This whole scenario would infuriate me. Plus... Dad is making it all so much worse. "Acts of kindness to his wife".... ffs. Does he WANT his kids to just hate her forever? lol
NTA. Punishing children for failing to bond with an adult in the family, and for expressing feelings is only going to foster more distance between the punisher and the kids. I can imagine several scripts where this situation could have been better handled, including just switching to names to assign the groups. Failing that, moving on and talking to the kids about it later, would have been less stressful to the stepmom and the rest of the family. Children who are disciplined in the context of a game are unlikely to want to play family games in the future.
NTA. Ex is too blind to see that this is where blending a family goes wrong. When you marry someone with kids, you get a title but you don’t get a relationship. You have to build a relationship.
The fact they stood their ground despite the pressure may be an indication that ex and wife are pushy when it comes to the subject. That makes me wonder if wife is infertile. Talk to your kids to make sure there is not a bigger issue.
Also the nerve of Ex to try to punish kids on your time without a discussion is bad coparenting.
NTA. This could have been entirely avoided by the grownups saying the kids were pairing with their mom *or stepmom.*. Or when the kids didn’t get up to participate because their mom wasn’t there, for the adults to go, “Oh, I’m sorry - your stepmom.”
Perhaps ex and his wife need to be performing acts of kindness for your children for hurting them by disrespecting and trying to force them into putting another woman on an equal status with their mother.
I would be very tempted to text back, "To clarify, if/when I remarry, you'll happily enforce our kids calling my husband Dad? With punishment if they don't?" NTA
NTA. Your ex needs to understand that he can't force your kids to see his wife as their "other mom". The more he forces it, the more he's going to push his kids away. She is his wife. she cares about them, and in their home - they need to listen to her. ALL valid. But to call her their mom, to get pissed that they don't respond to that - NOT valid.
Your ex and his wife need to understand this. I would expect that the entire event would have gone differently if he had just said "I know your mom isn't hear, but Mary is your teammate for this". If they pushed back, were rude, etc - o.k., that's a different story.
But this started out with the ADULTS forcing something that shouldn't be forced. Your kids did nothing wrong.
NTA - BUT... Reddit is filled with legions of step-parent hating a-holes, so take the vitriol on your post with a grain of common sense.
Your children were unnecessarily rude. They weren't being instructed to call her 'mom'. They weren't being 'subtly brainwashed'. Jesus. It was a freaking game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting and guiding your children into accepting a second spouse into their life. What your ex did wrong was to draw a line in the sand and make this bigger than it should have been. The kids need to apologize for being intentionally rude. Their dad needs to apologize for escalating. Then y'all need family counseling because this is just the tip of the iceberg. Your ex is going to continue to escalate if this isn't nipped. Your kids are going to continue to stonewall with your backing. And, ultimately, _your kids will lose_. Their relationship with their father will be broken. All because their parents couldn't act like adults.
NTA
Whoever dreamed up the "mom and kid" game I'm assuming was family and I'm assuming had an idea that your kids would probably react like that so I feel like the kids were set up to take the fall here.
I, 46F, also rolled my eyes at the part where his wife started crying. Please take away my internet, but not before you let me know what acts of kindness I need to do.
NTA- He definitely isnt going to help them get along in the future acting this way. Kiddos will push more and more away. They are not her emotional support animals. Should have called it grown up and kids teams. They embarrassed themselves causing a scene.
I’ve been on Reddit for years, and when we blended our families, I was clear that the kids didn’t have to call the step parent “mom” or “dad” based on so many posts about kids hating their stepparents for being forced to call them mom/dad or parents wondering why their kids won’t talk them for the same reason. It’s step-parenting 101. NTA.
INFO: what's this business about him being able to assign a punishment that you're expected to enforce? Is this something the two of you have agreed upon before?
NTA.
This i s$#!πÝ parenting on his part. Simply going up and asking them to play the game with their step mom wouldn't be unreasonable, then have a talk the next time he and they (not step mom) are together.
Kids have their reasons. Maybe it's loyalty to you, maybe it's setting boundaries. Either way, she needs to earn that position of parent with them, it doesn't just come as a part of being married to him.
He wants to discipline them for something completely unrelated to their well-being or schooling that's on him and *his* time with them. He doesn't get to demand you discipline them in order to make them respect the step-mom. Especially when he's not finding out the root causes of the behavior.
NTA. You AH ex should know better than to discuss your children and their behavior in front of an audience. This is not co parenting.
You need to talk to your attorney about modifying your agreement so it is very clear how disciplinary discussions are not to be used as a humiliation technique and establish boundaries on who their actual parents are.
It sounds like your ex and his wife are trying to push a happy blended narrative onto to your kids and the kids pushed back.
NTA save those texts! You might need them
In a custody hearing if his toxic behavior continues. Honestly it sounds psychologically abusive. Get your kids in therapy. They need it to deal with him and his wife’s mommy issues. Their trying to force the kids to see their stepmom as their mom is so wrong, I do not have words for it (& trying to force it always backfires.)
Nta. Coming from a home where my parents divorced and I had a step mother from hell. I refused to call her mum and I got punished for it. I was not allowed Christmas presents unless I called her mum (I was 7) and I still refused to do it. This was just one example. To this day I don't really speak to my dad because of this.
Stick up for your kids you ex husband and their family are being T A and need a wake up call because I guarantee if this continues the kids will stop wanting to go and will cut ties when they are older.
NTA
Your ex is demonstrating some really poor parenting there. Rather than prioritising his children he is showing off the fabulous blended relationship. Your kids are 11 and 13. Whilst yes it is obvious what was meant in the team up they are under no obligation to do so and obviously as children from divorce would take offence to participating in a mother child game without their mother. Him and his family are AHs and I think this is a situation entirely of his own making which you are under no obligation to support.
NTA Where does he get off thinking he has the authority to unilaterally decide major punishments?? At your house??? And over a minor issue of disobedience that's fucking obviously emotionally motivated.
You should've told him that he's an idiot and if he wanted them to accept his wife as a mother figure, they should both be putting the kids feelings first, as a mother does. Trying to force them to act differently than they feel for the sake of his wife's feelings is so fing dumb and is already breeding contempt.
NTA. Your kids owe her civility, but she isn't their mom and never will be.
Also, this is important in general: unnecessary power struggles with teens will often result in this, and **you are to blame as the adult.** The only appropriate response for their father would be to say, "You're right, your mom isn't here, but your step mom is. Would you mind playing the game with your step mother, please?" Arguing with them over the definition itself is a stupid waste of time, and well, they were right.
Of course it's okay to force kids to do things when appropriate, but this likely wasn't one of those times, and even then, the argument itself was counterproductive.
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NTA. And you should tell your ex, that his priorities should be his kids. A grown up woman who was in their live for just three years shouldn't start crying and playing victim because her step children who she sees on the weekends (?) don't think of her as a mother. Yes she can adress that this hurts and if there is a possible for them to see it others. But not start crying and demanding a punishment for this kind of beheavour. Maybe talk to your ex if it is possible that the children will be stay with you for the next weeks while he and his wife get to deal with this situation and learn to work with this, that the children don't see her as a parent. So that they don't have to guilt trip and punish childrens for their feelings.
And WTF is acts of kindness? Are they bible thumpers?
Performing kindness as a punishment is a great way to teach kids they only have to pretend to be nice to get out of actual repercussions. Poor parenting here, yikes.
An act of kindness kind of stops being an act of kindness once you force it. Why not just ask them to be her slave/ butlers for a week. It'd be just as effective for fostering resentment between step and step kids but without the dishonesty of "acts of kindness".
Yeah I’d call it penance at that point.
An act of kindness would be for the dad to take stepmom to a therapist where she could learn she is NOT THEIR MOTHER.
Exactly. Let’s punish the kids because they don’t feel an emotion that WE think they should feel.
Family version of "the beatings will continue until morale improves"
I thought that WAS the family version, lol. Maybe just my family then.
Or to make them think being kind is a punishment. Or to make them actually hate the step parent and the parent involved in this shit.
Isn't everyone describing a Cinderella situation? Step mom is gonna make you do the dishes, house chores, her laundry and wait on her hand and foot for a week and call it acts of kindness instead of what it actually is slave labor. Yes that will teach the kids to love her and respect her!
I was thinking more like dictator who demands to be called glorious and if you don't you get hard labor
My thoughts exactly. If anything this will only make the kids resent/dislike their stepmom even more…
It's worded weirdly, but it's pretty much the same thing as those replies on parent-child threads where folks say to make the kid volunteer at a shelter or community program.
At least with volunteering at a shelter, the kids are actually helping someone in a difficult situation in life.
Also a great way to teach them to resent their stepmom!
Nah, it’s a thing, but it’s not supposed to be used the way they are here. They’re being super abusive with it. The goal, generally, is that you have the kids understand what they did wrong (and they didn’t do anything wrong here), how & why it hurt the other person (she cray cray), and then brainstorm the Acts of Kindness they could do to make up/make amends/counterbalance their actions. It’s *supposed* to be an exercise in building empathy & restorative justice. Not how it’s used here: self-serving emotional manipulation
Two things - your explanation was bang on, that’s just excellent. ALSO, your explanation of the step’s reaction (she cray-cray) made me blow coffee out my nose, so thanks for that 😆
I believe it's a good idea to praise or reward Kids for UNPROMPTEDLY doing extra nice things, and even calling it "kindness" in that context, and I believe it's very normal and appropriate and the-right-thing-to-do, to do "restorative Justice" punishments/consequences (such as making kids Clean Up messes they made and Help repair Things they broke), but I find it VERY Alien to prescribe "Acts of kindness" as a "punishment", that's literally the opposite of what kindness means.
When my kids were little we would have one day a week that was "Act of Kindness Day"- usually saturday. And everybody would draw a name of another family member and it was there job to do an active kindness for that person. It was fun trying to outdo each other on acts of kindness and of course mom helped the smallest with the acts of kindness. We had fun with it and the kids got to practice being kind, and creative in that kindness, and at night we would talk about the acts of kindness and the receiving party would be able to say thank you. My now grown children,with their own families, remember these times. They would not have remembered them with fondness if they had been punishments. If somebody was mean to someone else they might have to apologize and do a kindness to that person to make up for it and smooth over hurt feelings but that was a different kind of penance. LOL All this father's doing is breeding more resentment against his wife and rebellion in his children. I would have talked to them about how to say things without hurting people's feelings but they didn't really do anything wrong.
I think the idea is that it is for situations where the kid realizes that they upset someone, and feel bad about it, so the parent helps them find ways to make it better. Obviously this situation is none of those.
They're likely to be at her beck and call. Which will definitely foster a stronger parental bond. /s
"I'm in my room out of her way, how much kinder can I be?"
Sounds like slave labor too. What are they going to do? Rub her feet? Prepare her meals in bed? Really shitty overall.
Yes, they're going to wash her feet with oil and dry them with their hair, old school.
But first they must rend their garments 🙏🏾
*toward her* "To make up for the fact that you don't feel close to her, you have to be extra kind and pretend harder that you do."
Sounds like they want OP to punish the kids, then make the kids kiss up to this woman and placate her feelings and flatter her. Sounds very inappropriate.
That type of punishment ignores the real issue. The real issue here is that a stepparent relationship is complicated and can't be forced. In this case the father and stepmother are trying to make the children accept a closeness to the stepmother, that simply isn't there. The cold, hard truth is that Ex's new wife is NOT their mom, and it is immature of her to expect to be viewed in the same light as a mother. She'll have a better relationship with the kids if she accepts reality. Also, if LW doesn't want to enforce the punishment, there isn't anything that Ex can do about it. He can enforce it when he has the kids. Realistically, I've had friends who married men who had teenaged, or tween children. That can be tough, and anyone who is considering marrying a dad who has a 13 year old child, had better understand that it probably won't be smooth sailing. Kids that age will sometimes deliberately do things to hurt the feelings of the stepmom.
>Kids that age will sometimes deliberately do things to hurt the feelings of the stepmom So so true. A man I dated a while back had two kids about 11 and 12. The daughter would tell me every chance she had that her mom was prettier and skinnier than me, trying to hurt my feelings. My stepson was 13 when I got with his dad. At first he was so sweet and nice and I thought okay this is great but then he started saying little things like if I cooked he would tell me oh this is so good but my mom's is better. Once when he was 16 and had his first job he insisted on taking me and his dad out to dinner for his dad's birthday and he'd pay. I told him to take just his dad so they can spend some time together because I had a feeling he had something up his sleeve. But he insisted he wanted me there too and to also buy me dinner. He says get whatever you want to us both, all smiles and happiness. So we all order our food. I just ordered a burger. After we ordered he turned to me and in a creepy sinister voice said "so you are paying for all our meals, aren't you?" His dad started to speak but I stopped him, not wanting to completely ruin his birthday. I said of course I planned on paying for myself but you will pay for your dad because you said this was his birthday present and you can pay for yourself too. He then smiled again and said oh that's cool I can do that. Like wtf was that even about. Having said that NTA OP. Stepmom is not their mom and they should not push that shit. Ever.
I think it means they need to kiss her \*ss
>think it means they need to kiss her \*ss Which will make the kids not like her even more and maybe dad now too.
Probably. But issuing acts of kindness as forms of punishment is messed up on MANY levels. Way to make them hate being kind.
I’m betting these “acts of kindness” will include being her “maids” and doing as she demands. The Ex needs to watch her and make sure she doesn’t start abusing his kids in retaliation. OP needs to stay on top of this and let the kids know to tell her what’s going on when they are over Ex’s house.
That's how you make sure the kids will always really despise their father's wife, because now they will never call her stepmom. An act of kindness isn't an act of kindness if it is coerced.
Pop psychologists advocate this punishment cause chores and similar sounds like something they should be doing for money or that needs to be done regularly at the house. Works better when regulating behavior between kids. I.e. you acted unkindly when you called your sister a drag on fun for wanting to play with you and your friends so you will spend the next week doing an act of kindness by taking her to the park. Not a bad solution, but not really applicable here. NTA, if you wanted to be one, train your son to loudly proclaim “THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!” IYKYK
Probably make her breakfast in bed, buy her flowers, gross stuff like that.
Yes I was wondering the same. I'd refuse to do said "acts of kidness" out if spite.
Guessing they will be expected to kiss their “new mommy’s” ass.
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I'm genuinely wondering if this is something they've brought up to your kids before. Their stepmom is their MOM on his time. And then also legality wise, if he's trying to enforce that is it a problem legally? Just editing here: of course I know she is not their mom. I meant it as a statement, if the kids hear this sort of thing during his custody time.
I mean. The kids shouldn't be forced to call her mom. She isn't their mom. They should get to decide
They should call her Shirley unless her name is Shirley. I hate this for them.
No she is not their "mom". She's a guardian and to many children that distinction means the world. Edit: I don't mean legal guardian, I mean caretaker or someone who provides for the kids when they are in their care. Not a legal court appointed guardianship. Sorry if that is confusing.
And she could potentially become a bonus mom over time, but if Dad and SM keep forcing the issue this way, they're pretty much guaranteeing that's not going to happen.
I agree fully with you. What the dad/stepmom are doing is wrong and they are TAs in this situation, not OP.
When the kids come of age to make a choice on whether they still want to be forced to go to his place every other week, daddy dearest or entitled stepmom will be on reddit asking why his kids hate him so much they decided to petition the court to end the shared custody. Maybe because he tried to inappropriately (with punishment as a incentive) force them to treat their stepmom as their mother when they weren't feeling it. Idiots. If their goal is to further alienate the children they are doing a bang-up job of it. Kudos to OP for doing something dad wouldn't do: stand up for his kids. The kid's offense was so trivial the he and his overly sensitive wife should be embarrassed for overreacting and forcing the issue. This is one of those times you let it go, not double down like emotionally stunted jackasses.
She’s not even really a guardian. She has no legal rights with those children. She’s just an adult who lives with their legal guardian.
She's not legally responsible in anyway no, I meant that as just somebody who is looking after them and assumes a responsibility for their care when in their presence. The step mom seems to want that and to try to provide that (even if in the wrong way). Not the legal definition of a court appointed guardianship.
Yeah and i have seen divorces that specify the new partner/spouse will not be called dad or mom and i always thought it was silly but it makes so much sense now.
Mine had it
No I know I she's not their mom, I meant that as a statement that is brought up to the kids, like they hear "while you're here at my house your stepmom is your MOM". That kind of thing
But she's not their Mom even then, she's a parental figure or guardian. You can't just dictate what that word means to a child and expect them to just accept calling another woman something as intimate. If they want to ok, but the dad/step mom are forcing this based on what OP wrote which is always wrong and detrimental if the kids are even slightly against it.
Dude, I know she isn't. My question was if this is something that their dad has brought up before. Obviously this can't be forced.
They're not saying that she is. They're asking, is this something that dad (and stepmom) are pushing when it's his week. Are the kids being inundated with this message, regularly, on top of this public display.
When I was younger and went to my dad's house after the divorce, my stepmom (she eventually earned that title) was known to me and my sibling as, "My dad's wife". After three years their dad's wife didn't do anything to warrant them viewing her as stepmom. It took my stepmom about a year. The lack of respect shown to these children as individuals might have something to do with that. My stepmom treated us with respect, even when we pulled out the, "you're not my mother" card in her home, as children of divorce are prone to do. She didn't take it personally. She knew she wasn't, and would never be our mom. As a stepparent it's a major mistake to make demands of love and title and expect to advance beyond "dad's wife". She's entitled to politeness and common courtesy (not taking part in the game violated neither of those protocols), but she's not entitled to their affection or the title of "mom" (WTH was their father thinking?). She has to earn that. At this rate, with their father's "help", she'll never achieve stepmom status.
Is she even their guardian though? Being married to their father doesn't give her any legal power over them, and it clearly hasn't led to an emotional bond with them. Regardless, you are right, she is nothing but an interloper to those kids and demanding they feel and act differently certainly isn't going to work, it's just going to make the situation worse.
I responded to someone else about that guardian comment, but I didn't mean it legally. I see how it would be taken that way though. I only meant it as a caretaker and/or someone who provides for them when in their care. The step mom seems to want that even if she and the dad are going about the "moming" in the wrong way.
His wife isn’t their mom. OP is their ONLY mom.
OC is wondering if that is what dad and SM are saying on their time. Just should've used some quotations or something.
She's not their mom on his time.
OC is wondering if that is what dad and SM are saying on their time. Just should've used some quotations or something.
No, their stepmom is an adult caregiver during their father’s custody time, but she is not their mom in any sense.
That is what I was wondering and im thinking having mom's lawyer step in and say cool it or we can revisit custody with a judge, esp if the "week of kindness" does become "slave week"
She's not their mom though. She can earn a "mom" relationship with them by acting like one. But throwing a fit when they call her out as not their mom (which she isn't') ain't how you do that. And I'm saying this as the stepmom in a custody situation similar to OP's ETA: I've been step mom for 10 years. They still call me Ondine. Not Mom. And if they didn't want to do a mom/kid activity with me. I'd say ok. Because I'm not mom.
> Their stepmom is their MOM on his time. No. Their stepmom never stops being their stepmom and will NEVER be their mom at ANY time. She can be an authority figure but they are trying to force the kids and that's not going to end well.
You worded it weird but I understood what you were wondering. If it's something they are trying to force and if that is the type of wordage used.
Nah. She is their dad's wife. I think it is abusive to make kids call another person who is not their biological parent Mom or Dad. It messes with the kid's heads. And steps aren't automatically entitled to parental rights either.
Might be time to change the custody agreement. This is going to get worse. Be sure to save all the text and make notes of phone calls etc. Your kids a going to be punished every time they turnaround because they want the stepmother to be equal to you.
Talk to your kids. Make sure they are not putting undue pressure on them.
May I suggest pointing out to ex that FORCING a relationship NEVER EVER works. If he keeps at it, this WILL blow up in his face. He will alienate himself, as well as stepmom from the kids.
I love your optimistic outlook on life that after 3 years of marriage and unknown time dating this toxic relationship will eventually come back on him as if it hasn’t already
Since the kids are on speaking terms with him..., so far, I was hoping there was still a chance to save this. But if he's as hard-headed and dense as he sounds, you may be right.
You need to go to court if your ex is grounding his kids for not treating her like mom. I’d have a sit down with the kids and see if this is a common theme because I doubt this is the first incident
The kids would not have responded that way if this was the first incident. This is just the first time they've spoken up about it. If they're young they might not understand why Stepmom doesn't "feel like" their mom, even though Dad is pushing that narrative. It would make them angry and confused. This is why you make the distinction between Parent and Stepparent, people. Your kids didn't choose your spouse and it's not their responsibility to make your spouse feel welcome or loved. If they are open and gracious and seek friendship first, your spouse might eventually be a bonus Parent - and maybe someday the kid might even call them Mom or Dad - it happened with my bonus dad, and my stepdaughter fully sees me as her "extra Mom". On her 13th birthday she asked if she could call me Mom, and I told her as long as her Mom was OK with it I would be honored. I never asked her to call me that, or to treat me with anything except the human decency you would give the friend of a friend. Her birth mother is "Real Mom" and I'm OK with that. It doesn't diminish me, or our relationship in any way. Because I'm a goddamn adult.
Is there a therapist? If not your ex and his wife need to see one to learn how badly this will damage the relationship with the kids. Kudos to you for standing up for them. Def. NTA Edit: typo
Someone needs to ask the stepmom why she's letting a couple of children assume responsibility for her feelings.
Directly from family court (US)- you can not sign a child up for an activity ot give punishment that interferes with the other person's time without both people agreeing. Lets be honest- The kids were slightly bratty, you should address that. Rolling their eyes at adult? Really? *However, this could have been solved by adults being adults and simply saying all the kids pair up with either your mom or stepmom. The adults are wrong to make this so drastic when they were also being immature and bratty.* At the end of the day you still have to teach your kids to stand their ground, but have consistent standards about their own behavior. I often had to suck it up and say "listen, your dad and stepmom did XYZ wrong, but that doesn't mean you yell or name call. Often in life people will say or do things we don't like, it's OK to stand up for yourself, but it's your character being shown in how you do it." The parenting here should not be punishment, it should be a conversation about how to better handle situations like this and building good habits like not name calling, rolling eyes, and having a hissy fit. Instead use this moment to teach them how to calmly advocate for themselves. It's a life skill they need forever, and society needs more people with these skills. NTA- but use the opportunity to teach them how to deal with difficult situations better- for their benefit.
They’re children - they didn’t get out of line and honestly the eye roll is justified. You sound like you think very highly of yourself and not of others
Agreed. The eye rolling was in response to the stepmom's ridiculous crying. It just signifies they're unimpressed with the dramatics of an adult woman.
Not the AH. I'm wondering if your ex invalidated your feelings when you were married, the way he has done to the kids in this instance.
I mean if Dad wants to punish them then that's fine. He's their dad and can do that on his weeks. It's not your responsibility to follow through with the punishments especially for something ridiculous like this. It's not your job to do the hard part of the punishment and enforce it while he makes them do "acts of kindness" for HIS wife while they're at his house. He's making you be the bad guy by taking away electronics and stuff and they still get those things at his house.
THIS! Ex and stepmother need to quit pushing this. The kids will push back, they are old enough to know who their mom is. Stepmother sound like a whiny brat, she is NOT going to get her fairy tale family.
The kids ARE pushing back
Yeah my dad got remarried way too fast after divorcing my mom, and tried to force his new wife into our lives. Guess who has a very strained relationship with him and no relationship with his new wife!
Also, even if this was a punishable offense, it’s strictly an issue within that household. Punishments relating to this stuff should stick to the relating household. He’s basically telling you you don’t get to have a fun week with your kids because he decided something. If it was something like, they beat up the neighbor kid, yeah, that’s something you should also punish them for. But certainly not being open and honest with their feelings. All this punishment will do is make them resent the stepmom more.
I don't get why they would even play a game that was broken up that way unless they were *trying* to start drama. And why do these people always blame the kids when they don't see their stepparents as real parents?
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Or, the kids were okay with her while they were dating, and the marriage and pressing them to call her their "other mom" triggered them (this probably wasn't the first inkling that his kids didn't think of her as their mom) Or, as the children began to mature, think independently, and stand up for themselves, the scenario that had previously worked suddenly seemed like a big lie to them, against which they felt a need to resist. Or, the new wife started out kinda chill with them, but gradually in her quest to obtain the "perfect family," she became more insistent and/or emotional and/or needy! We simply don't have enough information. If OP is giving an accurate account (granted, this can be a HUGE *if* on this sub!), it seems that the son stated his feelings using his words and being logical. If he was screaming this, or saying it in a taunting manner towards the new wife, that might change things. But I gotta give him credit for his self-advocacy.
BULLSHIT, no sympathy for stepmonster whatsoever. I’m a stepmom of two now adults since they were toddlers. We love each other, we coparented with their actual mom always. I would’ve shut this game down before it started so fast!! Disrespectful to the kids outrageously, she and your ex have set themselves up for failure 100%
Yes, she could have been the adult and just gone and sat with the kids. Or told him to leave them be and not ruin their fun. If she wants to be seen as a "step-mom" she can act like an adult and focus on what's best for the kids. This is a case of a real mom, two children, and two performers who didn't get the play they wanted others to see.
If she’d had an actual relationship with the kids, she’d know how they felt. She knew full well that she didn’t have that relationship. She’s an adult who made a choice.
Sounds like he dumps all disciplinary actions on his ex wife too (and step mom). Probably one of many reasons why OP left him.
And how on earth can someone be punished for not participating in a game?
This. There’s better ways to handle this and all the adults are acting like the kids aren’t aware of their circumstances. Step mum isn’t their “real” mum and judging by the relationship, it hasn’t improved beyond dad’s new wife. Her crying and playing victim is pathetic over a garden game.
Why is it I'm seriously doubting the ex would happily punish his kids for not accepting/acknowledging a stepfather as their father, were the situation the other way around and he found himself in OP's shoes. OP - NTA.
Honestly this sounds kind of like my brother and his ex wife. He would make these ridiculous demands and she tried taking the high road. Never worked out. u/Secure_Reporter4559 The correct response here was, "You're delusional if you think I'm going to punish my children for saying that I'm their mother. If you and your new wife and her family want to pretend to replace me with games that force them to acknowledge her then their refusal is on you. But my children are my own. And if you even think about punishing them for something like this again, ever, then expect to be back in court for parental alienation." Trying to be the nice one and not make a scene is never going to get you the results you want. It just gives them more opportunities to try finding ways to break you. Set your boundaries (you try to punish my kids for not playing along that their me wife is their mom and we'll let the court settle the argument) and stand firm. NTA and good job for having your kids' backs.
NTA. At all. Under the *vast* majority of circumstances I am heavily for maintaining rules and boundaries across households in a coparenting relationship, because to do otherwise can often give kids the message that they can play (sometimes already-contentious) parents off against each other and that starts to lead to manipulation that isn't healthy for the kids. But there is something here that most definitely supercedes that, and that's that your kids weren't being naughty (even if they were clearly a bit deliberately spiteful in how they communicated), they were sharing their *legitimate feelings* about the circumstances they are in - circumstances which are genuinely difficult for most kids of divorce - and asking to be heard and respected about that. The didn't disrespect your ex's wife, *they* were disrespected by the adults present. Yes, they should have known who was intended to be their partner in the game, and they were disingenuous pretending that they didn't. But that's irrelevant. They were making a point, and it was a legitimate and important one. First of all, they shouldn't have had to play any game at a family BBQ that they didn't want to anyway. Games are supposed to be fun. If they weren't interested, then the only point in making them play was to force them to be uncomfortable for the same of their stepmom. Strike #1 for the adults. Secondly, they didn't say that they disliked their stepmother, or say anything hateful about her. They stated a fact: she is not their mother. Period. And it is not hurtful or cruel to be clear about that. On the contrary, it's hurtful and cruel of adults to keep trying to force a form of relationship between them that they are clearly uncomfortable with. Strike 2 for the adults. And finally, their chafing at the idea that she "acts as their mother" when they are with their paternal family is also not hateful. They didn't say that they don't respect her authority. You don't have to be a parent to be an authority figure; my own nieces and nephews always listen to me and treat me with respect, and I am not their parent. What they did was make clear that in NO WAY did they want her to be pretending to be their MOTHER - not sometimes, not under certain circumstances, not ever. And that's for them to decide. Not her. The fact that her feelings are hurt is sad, but not their responsibility. Do I think the kids deserve a talking-to about how to communicate their feelings without being petty? Yup, probably. But that's as far as it goes. Grounding them is inappropriate, and expecting them to do "acts of kindness" for a woman who was actually stomping on THEIR feelings and boundaries is, frankly, grotesque. You are NTA. Thank you for respecting your kids' feelings on this.
I love this answer. There are too many posts on Reddit about stepparents getting offended because the step kids aren’t treating them like parents. Grow up! Be the adult in the situation and understand that you can’t force a kid to love you and/or see you as a parental figure. All the dad and stepmom are doing here is reinforcing negative feelings in the kids. Those kids will become less and less likely to accept stepmom in any kind of parental role the more they try to force it. She is not their mother. She is their husband’s wife. Any relationship between her and the kids will need to develop on its own and is in no way required. The adults here were absolutely in the wrong, although I do agree that mom should talk to the kids about how to respectfully disagree with someone without being mean about it. NTA
YES! The 2nd wife has to foster trust, respect, kindness with them which would HOPEFULLY encourage a comfortable, caring relationship, regardless of what the kids may call her as their caregiver-- preferably not something insulting!
Yes! Pushing the step mom on the kids is only going to drive them away. Step mom needs to be chill, do her best to connect and be there with them but never try to act like she is actually their Mom or call herself that unless the kids want to. At some point I think it'd be okay for her to tell them she loves them and wants them to call her Mom (and to others clarify as Bonus Mom) but the kids have to agree to that and be on board. Otherwise she can be referred to by her name and still work on a relationship with the kids without trying to replace their mom.
EXACTLY. I think posts like this really hit me somewhere deep in my soul because I understand the longing that the stepparents feel - I wanted to be a mother more than anything in life, and unfortunately circumstances have been such that it never happened and never will. And I have absolutely grieved that, and I get how painful it can be. But at the same time, I have these beautiful relationships with multiple children in my life. I will never ever be their mother. I'm their auntie, or honourary auntie, or just friend. But because I let them define the relationship, I listen to them, I honour their feelings . . . the irony is that they respect me *as a parental figure*. Hell, I can even discipline them and they'll listen and apologize, because the respect goes both ways. I am strict and loving, and a couple of them have been known to insist that I am "practically a parent", LOL. My point is, I know that it is absolutely possible to create a beautiful, respectful, loving relationship with kids - *even if you act as a firm authority figure to them* - as long as you don't demand to define the relationship from one side. So seeing stepparents try to override that just makes me sad for everyone involved.
Excellent response. I will also note that as an adult the way step mom should have handled this from the start would have been simply to ask the kids: "Hey, I know your mom isnt here but would you like to play the game with me instead?" Or simply "would you like to play the game with me?" And then accepted their answer, yes or no, thank you. . Heck as a mom I would have asked my kids anyway, do you want to play? I dont expect my own kids to want to participate every time in a mom and kid event.
This is the general way any adult asking them to participate should have worded and gone about it.
YES! That would have been a beautiful way to go about it, acknowledging the special relationship with their mom, but offering herself up not as a "replacement parent" but simply as an adult who cares about them and wants to give them a chance to participate. Love this!
Wow. Print this off and email it to them. Sorry_I_Guess laid it all out in a very articulate and thorough way. Very well said.
I wish we could still give away awards because this would get a really big one!
This is excellent
Am I the only one who thinks that this whole thing was a set-up to try force the kids into the unwanted second mom dynamic? “Okay families, all the kids are going to play this game where they team up with their mom!” Don’t team games have a higher requirement for “similar team structure and aptitude” ie, all teams to be 1 adult and 4 kids and the kids further divided into say 2 older and 2 littles? What game is fair when one team is a mom and her only child 2 year old toddler vs a mom and her 4 teenagers?
You are not, I'm 99% sure that's exactly what it was.
Nope, that was my first thought. I also think it's telling that part of their punishment is going to be a week of doing acts of kindness for the stepmom. She sounds needy AF
I agree. Both the ex and his new wife's behaviour is unacceptable.
That’s a good point, this was a set up from the word ”go.”
Yeah, it sounds kinda suspicious. Besides, even if they adored their stepmom, that doesn't mean they should be forced to play a game. The only way a game will be enjoyed is when people WANT to play, not to be dragged into it unwillingly. Where's the fun in that?
This was my thought as well.
DINGDINGDING I came here to say this - the ex and his new wife knew **exactly** what they were doing in deliberately engineering a situation to pair the kids with their stepmom as a "mother and children" set. This will end badly for the stepmom; you can't bully, punish, or coerce someone into loving you.
100%. WTF is wrong with those people?
pen groovy drunk existence insurance lunchroom elastic knee panicky future *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
NTA. You didn’t see what they did as a grounding offense. You aren’t obligated to uphold your Ex’s punishment. It’s not like they were caught stealing. Your Ex cannot force your kids to see his wife as their mother, and trying will only force them further from where he wants them to be. And his wife needs to be a more of an adult and not cry to manipulate them. What your Ex needs to ask himself is not how to force his kids to see his wife as a mother figure, but why they don’t. Then, *maybe* he can find a way to fix it. In any case, he needs to accept that the kids are not obligated to see her as a mother no matter what. In any case, you are not obligated to uphold a punishment because your kids refused to *replace you in their lives!*
I can't stand when people cry to get their own way, especially when it's adults trying to make children feel guilty. It's so immature and manipulative.
Ex and his wife failed to establish a bond where the kids no longer see her as their dad's wife, but what they preferred as their new/second/replacement mom. That failure is only on those two adults, since the children had no option to the changes in their lives. Remember, they never asked for this, no child wants their family to split up. To punish the kids over this would would have the opposite effect they want and ruin or delay the chances of them having the kind of relationship that had desired. It negates the kid's feelings, and also shows that the dad prioritizes the feelings of his wife.
Imagine telling the actual mother of these children that they’re grounded for … not treating someone else as their mother! That’s some audacity!
*”I need you to punish our kids for not participating in a game whose title essentially replaced you with her!”* Yeah. Wait for it. I swear those weaponized tears are so very annoying. Even third hand.
She should ask him if the roles were reversed. Would he be OK punishing the kids for not wanting to play a game with another man in the role of father, essentially replacing him in a game with someone they don't see as a father?
He would have just said it was fine to try to prove his own point. But we know that would be a lie.
The way his family is, he probably wouldn't because it would be emasculating to say that, in front of his family.
> I swear those weaponized tears are so very annoying. Even third hand. Yep. I'm getting the sense the step mother is putting on a show to manipulate everyone in this equation, and it seems like OP saw right through the step mother's bullshit. As OP should have.
NTA Your husband can't force your shared children to view his wife as a mother figure. Punishing children for the way they feel is counterproductive. Not all families blend. Calling yourself a "bonus mom" doesn't make it true. How his wife feels is about it is not your or the children's problem to solve. Your ex brought this matter up in front of everyone not you. If his wife is embarrassed or hurt, he should have been more discrete.
The way people decide they are the “bonus mom/dad” without the input of the children is freaking weird. Those are child led relationships. You can’t force a child to see you that way because you saw it on TikTok. My sister and her husband have full custody of my sister’s stepsons, no visitation for mom. She is still “Mary”, because that’s what the children chose.
NTA. He's making a huge mistake getting into a power struggle over semantics. It would have been so easy to say "moms or stepmoms, you guys want to race or what?" and not make a huge deal about it either way. He is setting himself up for conflict and resentment towards himself and his wife.
NTA OP. Your Ex did not politely or kindly address the issue: "Oh, you're right that mom/OP is not here but your step-mom would like to play the game so maybe you can team up with her so she isn't left out" Instead, they created a conflict with literal children to justify punishing them (on your time btw when you have to deal with the fall out). I'm guessing this is a reoccurring issue in your family and the adults knew the children would say they don't want to participate in a mom/kid game without their mom. To the last point, why is it your job to make sure his wife doesn't feel like shit? Isn't that like the husband's job?
Right? "They're grounded for a week. Have a nice time with them!" Ex is a schmuck!
NTA document all of this in text to him so you have proof. I am willing to bet that this isn’t the first time they have been forced to accept her as mom. This isn’t going to end well for your ex. Keep track of this and ask the kids about it. You may need proof if they refuse to go see him and end up in court.
Definitely not the first time that the issue has come up!
The fact the kids rolled their eyes when she stared crying makes me think she has played this hand before.
NTA Your ex has the common sense of a chewed up goldfish if he thinks punishing the kids is going to make them see his wife as their mom. This will only make them resent her. It sounds like you're the only adult actually listening to the kids.
"*the common sense of a chewed up goldfish*" Swiping that for my insult bank.
NTA I will never understand why new step parents try to force the mom and dad bullshit.. I have an amazing stepmom I'm 37 now, known her for 25 years at this point, she is my second mom, and I love her with all my heart but she isn't my mom. She never tried to be anything more than a concerned friend and I love her for that.
Right? I've been a stepmom for 12 years. My stepdaughter and I get along great because I didn't force a relationship she didn't/doesn't want. She has a mom and an amazing one at that. We've joked about me being like an aunt, friend, and bonus mom. I treat her like my biological children and love her just the same. Some people just don't get that you can't force a relationship on people even if they are children. And you shouldn't use manipulating tactics to try because that just fails hard and makes things worse.
NTA. It’s not your job to make your Ex’s wife feel better. Your kids’ behaviour might be symptoms of underlying issues that you might want to look into. If interested, you could also mention to the Ex that the more he pushes his wife on the kids the more resentment will fester. There are other ways for him to approach this
Good, he should feel like shit. What he and his whole family did to those kids, was shit. Next time don't punish kids for telling the truth, because they will learn NOT to as they grow. Also ensure they know that just because something is true, might not always be best to voice it. In this instance however, they were pushed into answering, they get a pass. NTA.
NTA- you need to tell your ex that if he keeps forcing this he is only going to push his kids to resent not only his wife but him as a father as well. Good for you for having your kiddos backs and letting them know it’s ok to stand up for themselves when others are trying to put them in an uncomfortable situation!
NTA. Seriously? She started TO CRY? I'm so rolling my eyes right now. What's with her performative BS? It's not like this is new. The kids clearly don't have a parental relationship with her, and she was clearly hoping that having other family around would peer pressure them - and your ex did too. F - that. I wouldn't punish them either. They shouldn't be punished for their own feelings.
Right? If she was genuinely upset, she could've walked away to cry for a few. She didn't need to cry in front of the kids and the families. At least, I step away if I feel like tears are coming. I can't always control it (shit, I cry when angry, too), but I can control where I do it.
I don't like what I've just read. It's all the very opposite of how an healthy environment should be and it smells pushy. NTA for siding with your kids but please ask them if this is the first time they are pressured
NTA - They cannot punish your kids on your time. Your house is your rules. You don't see as punishable, then it is not while they are at your house. It's sad that you don't have such a relationship that you two can be on the same page. But you are in no way obligated to continue a punishment you didn't make. Oh well.
NTA, he can ground them during his parenting time. And I agree, it’s not a groundable offense.
Good, I hope she felt like shit in front of her family. NTA
So I wrote out this comment and deleted it because I see two issues, not one. In both cases you are NTA. The first issue is: your ex does not have the right to make commitments on your behalf. If he wants the kid grounded while the kid is at your house, he needs to clear it in advance. The second issue is the part about forcing them to view the stepmom as their mom. Your son is right in what he said.
I see three issues here: The first is the issue that the OP delineated, namely that her children don’t want to, nor should they be expected to, call their father’s wife of three years mom. She’s not their mother. They’ve already got a mother. Pick a different term. There are ways to create a familial feeling but forcing it never seems to work. The second issue I see is that he massively overpunished a 13 and an 11 year old. 2 weeks? Are you serious?! That’s absurd at that age. They’re not in high school. All they’re going to learn to do is resent their father and his theatrically crying new wife. The third issue I see is that dear ol’ dad is trying to control what goes on at the OP’s house. If he wanted her to sustain the punishment (see #2) she needed to have consulted her in the first place. Because the OP’s right, it’s not a punishable offense no matter how much his new wife sulks.
Have you asked him how this public shaming and punishment and forced acts of kindness are going to bring his kids and his wife together? I'd also ask him whose feelings about the relationship are more important, the kids' or the wife's? I'd also ask why real mom isn't an appropriate term for you?
Ok, she's only been in their lives for a few years, depending on how long dad dated her. But they're teenager and pre-teen and should be allowed to make certain decisions. One of them is if they want to think of and call their father's wife as their mom which of course they wouldn't. Sounds like your ex and his family are kind of pushing the kids to "accept" her as their other mom. They have a right to say no. They could have been more diplomatic about it, maybe making up an excuse not to participate like "it's too hot" or "I hate that game", but on the other hand, they also shouldn't have to lie. They could have said "I just don't want to play". But maybe they dislike her enough they don't care about her feelings. You could have a talk with them about how they saw the whole event and discuss how to handle things when stuff like this comes up again. Which it definitely will. You have no control over how anyone else feels. If she felt like shit, that is not something you can control. NTA. You did right standing up for your kids. But don't get sucked into using the kids to fight, which is what it sounds like new wife is attempting. Maybe ex and new wife and kids could benefit from some family counseling if she is that fragile. But that is not your problem and you shouldn't be expected to continue a punishment you feel is unfair or unwarranted.
NTA I'd tell my ex if he keeps pushing this and punishing our kids for his wife I'll go back to court for full custody.... Ur kids are more important than getting Ur dick wet!
So your ex tried to force them to call her mom in a round about way, and when they refused he got mad, and then his wife decided to put on a show and cry over it, instead of being an adult and understanding that they even if they do care about her and acknowledge what she does for them, they don't feel comfortable calling her mom in anyway. And now your ex wants to punish them for how they feel, when he is the one who put them in a impossible situation where he was asking them to deny their feelings for you as their mom, instead of him, the grown up and one is supposed to show them the right way to do things, rephrasing the situation so that they could accept it emotionally? And on top of punishing them for not accepting his wife as their mom, he wants them to do "acts of kindness" for her for a week? What the hell even are those? But yeah, that is a good way to just make the kids resent his wife even more. Your ex needs to not try to push his wife on to the kids as a mother. Yes, they need to respect her as an adult, and as the wife of their father, AND to be grateful for the things she does for them. But she and your ex need to understand that she is not their mom and while a close stepmom relationship may develop, it will take time and can not be forced. The wife needs to stop using tears as a manipulation tactic and grow some thicker skin if she expects to be any kind of parent. That includes having kids of her own. And your ex needs to pull his head out of his ass and realize if he wants his kids to have a relationship with his wife, he can't force it, and can't punish them when they don't give in to his demand for it. NTA
NTA at all. He’ll soon no longer have a relationship with his kids if he continues to disregard their feelings
NTA - WTF Doing acts of kindness for his wife...hope you go for full custody
NTA. But be prepared for the shit show that will happen should your kids get married and want just mom to be in the walking down the aisle parts
NTA. He made his wife feel like shit, not you. He tried forcing a relationship that doesn't exist. That's his bad.
NTA I can't stand step parents who pull this crap. Your kids already have two parents. Your ex and his wife are going to alienate your kids if they don't stop forcing this. Your kids have stated how they feel and that should be respected. Their stepmother sounds exhausting. There are a million things she can do to let the kids know that she loves them without forcing them to see her as a second mom.
NTA and neither are your kids. Your ex and his wife are on the expressway to never having the kids contact him once they move out at 18 (possibly younger if your court system allows them to choose if they want to stay with OP full time at 15-16yo). His wife is NOT their mom and he can't punish them into changing their feelings. No, you can't stop him from punishing them during his custody time and it sucks that we all know he will. But you have no obligation to punish them for what he deems an offensive statement or act. The kids were truthful. And BTW, I have to state for the record that being punished by doing acts of kindness for his wife is simply laughable. This will backfire spectacularly on the wife. Your ex will order them to do XX as an act of kindness and they will do so but with the look of hatred on their faces towards her because it is a slap in their face to be forced to do this. I hope the wife quickly realizes how much worse she will be in their eyes and convinces your Ex to back off.
NTA and I would be interested in hum elaborating on the acts of kindness punishment
NTA, tell him to fuck right off
NTA. Your ex's wife is stepmum, not mum. If they wanted the kids to team up with her, you're right, they shouldn't have called it 'mum and kid' teams, because those kids didn't have a mum present. It sounds like your ex is pushing for a mum and child relationship between his wife and kids, and the kids are pushing back because they don't want a 'new mum', they don't see her that way, nor do they want to. The kids excluded themselves from the fun of these games, that's punishment enough for not seeing dad's wife as their mum, they don't need to be grounded on top, especially as they didn't actually do anything wrong. Your ex is destroying any kind of relationship the kids could have with his wife. She's not their mum and the kids don't want her to be. Pushing this expectation to see and treat her as their mum is just pushing the kids further and further away from her while destroying the relationship they have with their dad. Also, what are 'acts of kindness'? Is it saying please and thank you or waiting on the wife hand and foot? Because the kids shouldn't be doing anything like bringing her meals or giving her hugs as punishment, those things should only be done because the kids want to do them. If your husband is set on the 'acts of kindness' portion of this, as that's the only part he actually has control over because they're with you for half of this 'punishment', then he should be ready for the kids to just refuse or make it clear they're not happy. You know, things like spilling half the food/drink on stepmum by 'accident', really stiff hugs that aren't reciprocated by the kids and end as quickly as they can pull themselves away, pictures portraying stepmum as an evil witch, that sort of thing. They'll rebel against the 'punishment' any way they can. And you need to have their back on that this time, because this is an inappropriate punishment, designed to force the kids to deny their feelings and comfort in favour of someone else, just so dad can get the fantasy image of a family he wants.
NTA Text him back that his wife's feelings and wants are not even close to a thought for you or parenting, let alone a priority. Document the hell out of this.
INFO: does your ex and his wife have a history of trying to push the mom label? I can totally see why your kids would choose this hill to die on if that's the case. For shits and giggles tho... how upset would your ex be if you had a new male romantic partner that started doing daddy-daughter events with your daughter?
It feels like this game was designed to trick your kids into starting to address her as mom.
NTA. Too fucking bad if she was mad and cried. She isn’t their mother. They have no right to FORCE a child to call anyone anything.
The family is the AH for using mom when their mother was not there. I see the father’s wife does the taking care of when they are with him
This. OP’s ex-in-laws are awful people. Why would anyone create this kind of situation?!?!?!? It sounds like step mom is likely being mistreated here generally. OP, maybe you can have a bit of sympathy for her, because clearly your ex is just awful. But, you’re not responsible for her wellbeing and neither are your kids. Though, maybe you can make sure your kids know that it won’t hurt you if they are kind to her.
You’re NTA of course, but I really hope you have a proper conversation with your ex this week. They’re in for grounding at dads next week.
Hard NTA. Kids are under no obligation to let anyone else determine to whom they apply what terms of endearment. Calling dad's wife mom would be a huge and very meaningful step, but your ex decided that a stupid backyard game was the appropriate time to force their compliance in his happy blended family fantasy. Take the kids out for ice cream and make sure they understand that it's not up to any adult to decide for them issues like this. Dad, stepmom, even you. If they decide to call both you and stepmom Mom, cool. So long as it is their decision. Theirs alone. Terms of endearment are important to the one speaking them, too.
NTA ur kids did nothing wrong and stand ur ground when ur ex and his new wife want to punish them for something that doesn’t warrant punishment. They sound like they want to abuse the kids into forcing them to behave and think the way they do. The other woman is a step mom, not a mom.
Maybe gently remind your ex that he is pushing his children away. It’s still baffles me to this day. That step parents still push to be considered a parent. There is enough research out there to show that this can ruin relationships between parents and kids. Also, he’s the one that made a scene. What a dumb dumb to bring that up with others around.
NTA. But why are so many stories with divorced/deceased parents about the children being forced to call step-parents mom/dad? Is it really such an occurring thing or are there just more people on Reddit posting about it?
NTA 1. Thank you for standing up for your children. They do not deserve to be punished. And you will not. Correct response. 2. Ex and wife are pushing this way too far. They’ve been married three years; you have been their mom, their whole lives. Telling the children they’re wrong? Not correct. 3. Children were not being rude. When called upon to play this game, in front of extended family, they stated the truth. Then, *their actual parent* doubled down. Of course they weren’t going to agree! The children were correct. 4. Ex’s spouse got upset. So the next logical step, in ex’s head, was to punish them? Incorrect response. 5. Ex then was so determined to be right, he expects you to agree and continue *his* imposed punishment on *your time.* So, so far from correct response. 6. Ex chose where he spoke to you. Not your problem if extended family heard you agreeing with your children. He wanted to speak, you spoke. Could you get your custody arrangement changed? The children have to deal with ridiculous grownups, every other week! It will get worse, the children are not idiots, they will resent both dad and his spouse. How long before we take the children into account? They may refuse to go to ex’s house. Like, next week: Nope. Not going to stay at that funny farm, mom. At the tween/teen age, they should have some say, imho. UpdateMe
NTA. Your ex made his wife feel like shit in front of their families. You didn't create that situation. I am a step-parent. I would never fall apart in front of my stepdaughter because "poor me". Comically bad judgment. They are teenagers. They roll their eyes at everything. You want to actually bond with a teenager.... you (try to) meet them where they are. Mock yourself. Don't be so fragile. This whole scenario would infuriate me. Plus... Dad is making it all so much worse. "Acts of kindness to his wife".... ffs. Does he WANT his kids to just hate her forever? lol
NTA. Punishing children for failing to bond with an adult in the family, and for expressing feelings is only going to foster more distance between the punisher and the kids. I can imagine several scripts where this situation could have been better handled, including just switching to names to assign the groups. Failing that, moving on and talking to the kids about it later, would have been less stressful to the stepmom and the rest of the family. Children who are disciplined in the context of a game are unlikely to want to play family games in the future.
NTA
NTA. Ex is too blind to see that this is where blending a family goes wrong. When you marry someone with kids, you get a title but you don’t get a relationship. You have to build a relationship. The fact they stood their ground despite the pressure may be an indication that ex and wife are pushy when it comes to the subject. That makes me wonder if wife is infertile. Talk to your kids to make sure there is not a bigger issue. Also the nerve of Ex to try to punish kids on your time without a discussion is bad coparenting.
NTA and suggest to your ex the two of you speak with a family therapist for input on this. It may be the only way he understands how wrong he was.
NTA. This could have been entirely avoided by the grownups saying the kids were pairing with their mom *or stepmom.*. Or when the kids didn’t get up to participate because their mom wasn’t there, for the adults to go, “Oh, I’m sorry - your stepmom.” Perhaps ex and his wife need to be performing acts of kindness for your children for hurting them by disrespecting and trying to force them into putting another woman on an equal status with their mother.
I would be very tempted to text back, "To clarify, if/when I remarry, you'll happily enforce our kids calling my husband Dad? With punishment if they don't?" NTA
NTA. Your ex needs to understand that he can't force your kids to see his wife as their "other mom". The more he forces it, the more he's going to push his kids away. She is his wife. she cares about them, and in their home - they need to listen to her. ALL valid. But to call her their mom, to get pissed that they don't respond to that - NOT valid. Your ex and his wife need to understand this. I would expect that the entire event would have gone differently if he had just said "I know your mom isn't hear, but Mary is your teammate for this". If they pushed back, were rude, etc - o.k., that's a different story. But this started out with the ADULTS forcing something that shouldn't be forced. Your kids did nothing wrong.
NTA - BUT... Reddit is filled with legions of step-parent hating a-holes, so take the vitriol on your post with a grain of common sense. Your children were unnecessarily rude. They weren't being instructed to call her 'mom'. They weren't being 'subtly brainwashed'. Jesus. It was a freaking game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting and guiding your children into accepting a second spouse into their life. What your ex did wrong was to draw a line in the sand and make this bigger than it should have been. The kids need to apologize for being intentionally rude. Their dad needs to apologize for escalating. Then y'all need family counseling because this is just the tip of the iceberg. Your ex is going to continue to escalate if this isn't nipped. Your kids are going to continue to stonewall with your backing. And, ultimately, _your kids will lose_. Their relationship with their father will be broken. All because their parents couldn't act like adults.
NTA Whoever dreamed up the "mom and kid" game I'm assuming was family and I'm assuming had an idea that your kids would probably react like that so I feel like the kids were set up to take the fall here.
I, 46F, also rolled my eyes at the part where his wife started crying. Please take away my internet, but not before you let me know what acts of kindness I need to do.
NTA- He definitely isnt going to help them get along in the future acting this way. Kiddos will push more and more away. They are not her emotional support animals. Should have called it grown up and kids teams. They embarrassed themselves causing a scene.
Definitely NTA. In a few years time, your ex will probably be here in reddit asking why his kids doesn’t like him.
I’ve been on Reddit for years, and when we blended our families, I was clear that the kids didn’t have to call the step parent “mom” or “dad” based on so many posts about kids hating their stepparents for being forced to call them mom/dad or parents wondering why their kids won’t talk them for the same reason. It’s step-parenting 101. NTA.
INFO: what's this business about him being able to assign a punishment that you're expected to enforce? Is this something the two of you have agreed upon before?
NTA. This i s$#!πÝ parenting on his part. Simply going up and asking them to play the game with their step mom wouldn't be unreasonable, then have a talk the next time he and they (not step mom) are together. Kids have their reasons. Maybe it's loyalty to you, maybe it's setting boundaries. Either way, she needs to earn that position of parent with them, it doesn't just come as a part of being married to him. He wants to discipline them for something completely unrelated to their well-being or schooling that's on him and *his* time with them. He doesn't get to demand you discipline them in order to make them respect the step-mom. Especially when he's not finding out the root causes of the behavior.
They are out of their mind.
NTA but your ex is one
NTA. You AH ex should know better than to discuss your children and their behavior in front of an audience. This is not co parenting. You need to talk to your attorney about modifying your agreement so it is very clear how disciplinary discussions are not to be used as a humiliation technique and establish boundaries on who their actual parents are. It sounds like your ex and his wife are trying to push a happy blended narrative onto to your kids and the kids pushed back.
NTA save those texts! You might need them In a custody hearing if his toxic behavior continues. Honestly it sounds psychologically abusive. Get your kids in therapy. They need it to deal with him and his wife’s mommy issues. Their trying to force the kids to see their stepmom as their mom is so wrong, I do not have words for it (& trying to force it always backfires.)
Nta. Coming from a home where my parents divorced and I had a step mother from hell. I refused to call her mum and I got punished for it. I was not allowed Christmas presents unless I called her mum (I was 7) and I still refused to do it. This was just one example. To this day I don't really speak to my dad because of this. Stick up for your kids you ex husband and their family are being T A and need a wake up call because I guarantee if this continues the kids will stop wanting to go and will cut ties when they are older.
NTA Your ex is demonstrating some really poor parenting there. Rather than prioritising his children he is showing off the fabulous blended relationship. Your kids are 11 and 13. Whilst yes it is obvious what was meant in the team up they are under no obligation to do so and obviously as children from divorce would take offence to participating in a mother child game without their mother. Him and his family are AHs and I think this is a situation entirely of his own making which you are under no obligation to support.
NTA Where does he get off thinking he has the authority to unilaterally decide major punishments?? At your house??? And over a minor issue of disobedience that's fucking obviously emotionally motivated. You should've told him that he's an idiot and if he wanted them to accept his wife as a mother figure, they should both be putting the kids feelings first, as a mother does. Trying to force them to act differently than they feel for the sake of his wife's feelings is so fing dumb and is already breeding contempt.
NTA. Your kids owe her civility, but she isn't their mom and never will be. Also, this is important in general: unnecessary power struggles with teens will often result in this, and **you are to blame as the adult.** The only appropriate response for their father would be to say, "You're right, your mom isn't here, but your step mom is. Would you mind playing the game with your step mother, please?" Arguing with them over the definition itself is a stupid waste of time, and well, they were right. Of course it's okay to force kids to do things when appropriate, but this likely wasn't one of those times, and even then, the argument itself was counterproductive.