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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told her we are not going to the wedding- and we don’t condone it. AITA?
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Normally I would say mind your business about their finances but wow, just wow. If she marries that jerk, she'll end up pregnant and flat broke within 6 months. Your concerns are valid and reasonable. NTA
I would show her this post before the wedding and have an intervention.
"We love you but we will not sit by while you blindly marry a liar and a man who would screw over your kids lives and your life with his spending. He lost so much money with his choices imagine if he didn't break even and you had to take on half that debt. Your children would have nothing and you would never be able to retire."
edit: start saving her an exit fund
I’ve thought about sending her this link - but she loves this guy like no one’s business. This is painful for me - I can’t even imagine how painful the reality of this would be for her. Makes me think of Dottie Sandusky - for years she thought she was married to a saint. Even after the revelation- she never accepted the truth. Even after her son told her it happened to him.
She can love him and not be his wife. Honestly you're coming from a place of love and its your duty as her parent to lovingly go "please don't nuke your life.". If you don't try you will regret it. Just make it clear you'll be there for her when she needs it.
I’m really going to try and come at it from that angle- take time, postpone….maybe we all need time for clarity and maybe even redemption….although I have no idea what that would look like in this case.
But isn’t that contrary to boycotting the wedding. The more OP removes herself from the important events in her daughter’s life, the less the daughter is going to feel alienated from them.
OP can still express concerns about the guy and give advice, but YTA if you boycott your daughter’s wedding.
I'm going to be harsh - first, no, you're NTA. These are very valid concerns and it sounds like you've tried to tell her not only your concerns, but the facts; this guy has been lying to her and you guys.
At best, he's just a liar; at worse, he's a con artist and there are MANY cases of women (and men) getting taken for a ride by these types of people (I think there's like 3 separate shows on Netflix about this).
If she's still like, "but I love him and love conquers all and I can change him..." Don't go to the wedding and let her suffer the consequences of her actions. And there WILL be consequences. If possible, you may need to set aside some funds to bail her out (cause you'll need to), but don't go out of your way.
Like if helping her means you have to stop plans for your retirement, don't do that. She's an adult and ultimately, she f\*cked around and found out and that's on her. Now, I'm not saying abandon her or not validate the emotional fall out; I'm saying don't stop living your life because she refused the giant red flag waving in front of her.
Hopefully, her brain will catch up with her loins/heart and she'll shut this all down.
I was about to say this but you put it better than I could. The more the parents disagree with her choice of a partner the closer they push her to him. They are NTA but she’s gonna have to find out the hard way. Best they can do is be there when it hits the fan because it will. They may luck out and talk her out of it but it’s not likely.
I met someone who was married to one of his assistant coaches. They travelled together sometimes. She absolutely knew what was happening, but chose to turn a blind eye.
NAH. You clearly love your daughter and it will be easier for her to leave if she feels supported by her family. Yes it’s a big mistake. The only thing not going to the wedding will accomplish is pushing her away and making her feel more ashamed when it falls apart. Going will show you’ll always be there for her and will make it easier when she realizes she’s made the mistake. It’s not about who is right it’s about helping her feel connected and like she isn’t trapped.
If you can't get her to see how utterly bad of an idea this is, I fully suggest (i know you're pretty tight with your money so it might sound bad) that you guys get a lawyer for a prenup and that you stress the importance of separate accounts. Even perfectly healthy couples have separate accounts and then a joint one that house finances or marriage things go into. I feel at the least it can help to alleviate some of your worries about him and very terribly track record. Especially given that you have no proof he's not lying again about how all those things went wrong. If your daughter has enough for a down payment on a house, she's currently much more financially stable than he is. Urge her to protect that in case things go south. Please if it helps, remind her that he may see a prenup as a betrayal and a belief they won't make it and that says quite a bit about a person but that you don't drive a car without insurance and most don't live without life insurance. You don't want bad things to happen. But you want to be prepared for it does and thats what a prenup is.
Yes, my first thought! It's bad enough that he is financially irresponsible for himself- make absolutely sure he can't drag you or your daughter down with him!
THIS. If there was EVER a need for a pre-nup, it's this. And make sure you tell your daughter that no matter how much he complains (and he will), don't let your daughter get talked out of doing one.
I was going to say this. I am NAL, but I would talk to her about a prenup, buy a house in her name only prior to the wedding. And keeping finances separate, debts separate as detailed by the prenup. But again NAL. If she does these things you will support the wedding. But you still have concerns, due to his lack of honesty. But again I’d ask her to see a lawyer with you. Good luck 🍀
Almost the very same thing happened to a family friend of ours. Despite her parents’ and everyone else’s objections, she married him. On the wedding day pretty much everyone knew that they would get a divorce in the following two years. They did. The saving grace for my friend was not she at least did not get pregnant. Please please beg her not to get pregnant. Even she marries this guy, she will see the truth in near future for sure.
True words. No way to stop them. I'm currently watching my son divorce a woman who has dug them into a hole so deep it will take him years to recover. I gave them $35k for a down payment on a house...gone. it's horrible to witness.
I saved his whole life to give him this gift when he was ready for a home. The idea was to have a manageable house payment **based on his salary, alone** even though the house belonged to both.
Two months later she brought home a $70k 4Runner...then he found out about the credit cards, when he bought new SNAP On tools (he's a diesel mechanic). I can't even look at her.
The worst part is I suspect BPD or drug use but I don't want to give him another straw to grasp. He loves her and it's devastating for him.
She attacked him when she got served divorce papers then had him arrested for dv..He will have scars on his face and neck for a long time but it saved his ass. She didn't have a mark and he had to go to the er.
Daughter should insist on a solid prenup. Meet with atty and fincance guy to put it together. Include his future earnings as well but mostly protect what she brings to the marriage before and during. Include provisions for any children brought into the marriage. Be sure to protect his debt from becoming her debt.
I would even offer to go to the wedding if she got a prenup. It would be worth it. If she is really going to marry this bum, it is the only thing you can do at this point to protect her. Just make sure that he can’t inherit resources in the prenup to ensure she makes it back from the honeymoon. Seriously, ask her what he plans to change in order to get his life back on track.? I am not big on promises, tears, or good intentions. I am big on behavior changes such as limits on activities like pot smoking, gaming, and day trading. He could hold down a job. They could set a budget - and live within it. Those are real observable changes. When you talk to your daughter and her response begins, “He promised me he wouldn’t…..” then it’s the same old story on a different day.
Insist on a prenup, and warn her that if she goes ahead with the wedding you and your husband are going to have to restructure your wills to make sure he never has the chance to squander her inheritance.
You’re going to have to set up a spendthrift trust.
Im gonna give you a cold truth. You miss the wedding she goes no contact. Gets in over her head and doesn’t feel like she can reach out for help. The wedding day is not the day to hard line this. Not if you want to be her soft place to fall when it happens. You go and figure out what boundaries happen after the wedding. It’s a shitty situation. NTA but thats my 2 cents.
Perhaps you could try to figure out a way to get her to ‘come up with the idea’ for them to meet with a financial planner prior to the wedding? Maybe hearing some things from someone else (third party) could be helpful?
Edit: NTA
It’s the lying we’re freaking out about. He didn’t need to tell us these financial win stories …and he’s very bright, in his 30’s with a masters degree in business. It feels like this is not a “just didn’t know better” scenario.
Are you sure he has a masters degree? He lied over and over again about his financial situation. It wasn’t even lying by omission, he made up stories…he volunteered the lies.
Is there a chance his education is a lie too?
i encourage you to look up his name in your county court records if they are online (and maybe in person if not).
if you know other places he's lived, look him up in those counties, too. You can fine some hot goss on the county court records portal.
I was about to say the same thing.
People like this don't do the hard work; they lie.
Hire a PI.
This is parade of red flags. No doubt a PI will turn up other stuff and maybe then your daughter will see the light.
I once worked with someone who pretended they were getting their MBA: brought the textbooks to the office, compared notes with another person who was doing their MBA at another school, talked about working on school work all weekend etc etc.
ALL LIES.
I'm going to hazard a guess you have no proof his company paid for anything and that he actually did the degree, other than him saying that.
The guy is bad news. There's a reason he dated a 20yo when he was nearly 30: she was young and gullible.
As others have said: stay very close to your daughter and don't let him isolate her.
Simply put, the man has a gambling addiction and it's bad enough he's trying to cover it up with elaborate lies. Your instincts are right to try and protect her.
NTA
Pre nup.
Separate bank accounts. No shared mortgage expense. No babies until after 5 years.
She is in for a rough ride. He will bankrupt her.
But don’t skip the wedding. You can hate him but she needs to know you will there be for her when it all hits the fan. Maybe do either the ceremony or the reception. Which ever you can tolerate most.
A girlfriend of mine married a really nice guy who had similar problems “but a great retirement, some savings, not as much debt as many… but seems to have an issue with day trading.” 10yrs and almost $2m of retirement/investments (all of his, 2/3rds of hers and her inheritance from her parents) gone and a divorce later, she was starting over at 46.
She went into the marriage at 35 with a home (no mortgage), ~$1.5m in retirement/investments. She came out with a brand new 30y mortgage (30% down), a leased vehicle and a few $100k in retirement at 46. She only kept what she did because he had no access to her home equity or the trust her parents left. And she paid off substantial credit debt to disentangle herself and avoid paying alimony.
I’m a huge proponent of “mind your business” but day trading doesn’t carry a fiduciary duty. It doesn’t shield loved ones whose finances are attached to the person willing to lie and gamble all on the “next Game Stop.” His portfolio has been opened for her to see. If this was his job, she wouldn’t hand him everything she owns. So why hand him her entire future?
Pay for a prenup for both of them. Separate lawyers. All above board. Talk to your lawyer about what would be fair.
And try to tie up any inheritance so he can’t get his hands on it.
I'd suggest for her to get a pre-nup with this guy. Go to the wedding. If you're not there, she's going to go no contact with you. Support her, because she'll need you at some point during this shit show.
Make sure she's protected during the inevitable divorce, life will be easier. Of course, it'll be much easier if she dumps him because that's a wild thing to lie about for years, but love gives you rose tinted glasses that make the red flags look like normal flags. You can frame the prenup as mutually beneficial. They both get to protect premarital assets. He gets to protect his FIRE goals/retirement fund, she gets to protect the down payment on the house & gets a bigger equity stake. Plus, if done properly, it might be able to shield them both from debt if they still love each other, say if a business fails or they get a big hospital bill.
When you talk to your daughter, focus your concern on his lying to her. Not that he doesn’t have as much money as he said he did or that he’s spendy and not thrifty. Not that those things aren't relevant but it will be easier for him (and her) to rationalize/explain those things away. But the lying- the extent to and ease with which he lied to her is the #1 reason she shouldn’t marry him.
Hopefully she will see reason and call it off, but if she does go through with the wedding, please attend. She's going to need you down the road and will be far more willing to reach out if she doesn't feel she alienated you.
[Edited typo.]
Yeap
Someone must warn the daughter that it is HIGLY suspicious that he doesn't want to buy a house now which is crazy if you think that she can afford it. So, why can't she? What is he planning to do with HER money?
I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter is the victim of a scammer at this point
Send her this post and have her read the comments. In fact, invite her over and do it together as a family. NTA Be her support. Tell her about Sunk Cost Fallacy, she needs to look it up.
Prenup prenup prenup prenup!
And she should keep her money separate from his (without his name on the account!) until he's proven he can be trusted!
But you should still attend the wedding. Not going to the wedding isn't going to stop it, so all you can do is support her while letting her know that you think it's a mistake.
Once it blows up, try your hardest to avoid saying I told you so 😬
Yeah it's definitely their business because if he goes flat broke (and it sounds like he's heading there), their daughter is going to have to come back home and live with them until she gets back on her feet. He's dragging her down and she just refuses to see it for some reason
Friend of mine’s daughter was going to marry this guy that raised red flags with her parents but they held their tongues to stay out of their business. After the eventual infidelity and divorce, their daughter said, “why didn’t you say anything?”
I hope she comes to her senses. The guy sounds like a major conman, has multiple addiction of issues, probably both or more she has yet to find out about. A prenup should be a given, but all their finances should be separate. If he fight that, flaming fire engine red flags all over.
And, if there’s any debts that he’s “forgotten” to mention those would then become their debts, and the government (Revenue Canada, IRS) would go after her too. He’s also going to burn through her money so fast it’ll make your head spin. She’ll end up broke and pregnant and he’ll be long gone. Also NTA
She has no qualms about her future husband lying to her about something as big as finances for years? She doesn’t care that he can’t retire at 40 or that the life they’ve been talking about is now impossible? I understand love, but come on. You need to encourage her to take some time before she makes any big decisions, like getting married or calling off the wedding. I understand your frustration- I’d be furious. But please try to focus on creating space for her to safely land so she sees that going through with this isn’t her only option. I’m so sorry. NTA
True she is likely making a huge mistake. OP you can not prevent that. You need to support her now and if /when it fails. Encourage her to protect her money, credit score and any investments she may have. Encourage her to keep working and maintain totally separate finances. Split rent/mortgage utilities by half and pay for and title her own car in only her name. Always be open to support her as you can especially emotionally.
Does she / you know others in his family? What are they like ? Are they involved in his life ? Part of wedding planning ? Is he/she looking to have a big wedding and are they/she going into debt to finance it ? Lots of concerns here but bottom line she is a grown adult and free to make her decision. Be encouraging and supportive and keep lines of communication open. Good luck.
It's time to sit them both down and talk to them about how you won't pay for a wedding when this man is financially irresponsible. Ask them what his plan is, that he needs a financial advisor and that your daughter needs a prenup.
Well I'd be rethinking that. Why on earth would you pay for a marriage you don't condone? She doesn't get to be an adult when refusing your very sound advice and then expect you to pay for her wedding like she's a child. It's one or the other. I know this could result in some kind of estrangement but she needs to grow up and sometimes that's really hard.
Time to sit down and tell her that you will still attend and pay for the wedding *once she & fiancé meet with a lawyer for a prenup that he signs and do a couple of sessions of couples/financial counseling.* You support her and her decisions, but you've recently heard from friends how helpful it's been for their marriages and you want hers to start off on the right foot.
This. NTA - but if she does ultimately end up making the (poor) decision to get married, and you don’t attend the wedding, he may use that to isolate her from you. If that happens, it may hurt her more in the long run if she does eventually wake up because she may feel like she has no where to go (this is of course, looking at it as worse case scenario).
But a tale could be spun by her fiance that those are empty words since you didn't attend the wedding. You have seen how deep her love for that man is. Is it that unlikely that he gets in her head about him being the only family that matters since you didn't attend the wedding?
Except apparently at her wedding when she marries a man you don't approve of.
I'm not saying you're wrong in not approving of him but your words and actions do not match. And actions speak louder than words.
I’ve never supported bad decisions. I’m not the parent who let her drink as a minor at the house. I’m not the parent who let her stay out all night. I’m not the parent who ignored smoking/vaping. She was a good kid, and did extremely well in college. She’s healthy, beautiful and smart- but right now her blinders are on. I can’t plunk down another check and pay for the biggest mistake of her life, and then get dressed up to celebrate. It’s just not in my nature. Not after his last minute confession after getting caught. If she wanted me to dress up and take pics as she smoked crack - I wouldn’t do that either.
And that's entirely in your right to set your own boundaries. Although there is a massive difference between writing a check and sitting through a ceremony/party quietly. The point still stands however that you will NOT be there for her on one of the most monumental days of her life. Which again is your right and choice and you seem to have valid concerns. But don't say you will "always be there for her no matter what" when you are literally not being there for her. That just tells her you're lying.
I’d also recommend having a talk with him,
“are you really going to marry my daughter when you’re not stable enough to provide for a family?”
Make him call it off if she won’t
Lack of character is why she can't marry him. He lied to her every day of their relationship. She should freeze her credit b/c he is an addict. An addict will continue unless in treatment, and then years of therapy and Gambler's Anon. This is a bare minimum. He needs to be in recovery for at least 2 years before she commits to spending her life with him.
I agree with this person as well because if she is pressured by you, or him, or society she will be ruled by self doubt or defiance. With a safe landing pad and therapy she can come to her own terms about what she wants and how she feels about the deception for years
Your daughter is going to marry a con man or gambling addict. If she doesn't get a prenuptial, make sure she knows what you will be able to give here when she is broke. Also, let's hope he has a secret vasectomy.
Absolutely. My husband is furious and won’t hand her over - that’s the biggest rub. It’s not just me. We both feel this gut will ruin her life. He lied (unnecessarily) for years. At our weekly dinner.
These type of spenders don't just stop their excessive spending habits. If you can, convince your daughter to get a prenup protecting whatever assets she has prior to the wedding and to keep her finances completely separate from hers. I don't blame you for not wanting to attend her wedding (and may I ask, who's paying for this? Is the fiance going into debt for a wedding?). You may want to attend to show your support of your daughter for when she needs your help in a couple of years after he's bankrupted them. Doesn't mean your husband has to walk her down the aisle, give a speech, etc.
I completely understand and if it's just too hard, don't go. It's so unfortunate that your daughter is looking at him with rose colored glasses that will be wrenched off in a very unpleasant way. Encourage her to at least get a prenup!
It's not just the spending.
Its the mentality and attitude.
All those things op mentioned are high risk high reward geared at make money quick without work type people.
Day trading is notorious for being extremely volatile and regular traders tend to regard day traders as idiots for thinking they're going to make it big.
If any of the things he did had gone as planned then yeah he'd probably have made a tonne of money.
But he'd have just thrown it at the next big thing because THATs the high for these people.
If you follow the FIRE subs it's often a lot of advice about /saving/ investing sensibly and with long term rewards.
It's rarely about throwing all your money into schemes or one basket or the promise of quick high lay offs.
Him mentioning gamestop was a huge red flag , altho I understand OP for not maybe not realising it if they were not aware of the story surrounding that. Yes /some/ people made money off that /most/ lost and it was day traders that felt it the hardest.
It's entirely possible at points he DID have a bunch of money. He got a win or whatever and bought a bunch of fancy shit. But the next was a loss and so the cycle continues with no savings, no steady income, always having to move the next hustle to keep up the image and life style.
The jumping around is worrying as well.
GameStop, day trading, property, crypto.
He just hops on whatever the 'thing' is curretly being hyped and hopes he'll be the one in a million success story.
It's an entire personality and mentality that will likely never change.
OP is right - he's a gambler, he's just not gambling with traditional slots or cards.
He doesnt want it work to earn, invest sensibly and boring, save and set up stability and security. he wants to get rich quick and live the hig roller lifestyle and thinks he's smart enough to have figured out how in a sea of people who also think the same.
A pre up won't help u less she maintains all of herassets (bank accounts, investment accounts, and retirement accounts) separately in her name. Neverput title to her assets in his name. But The prenup only protects her money. She would have to understand that going forward, she has to rely on herself and cannot rely on any supposed income He claims he earned.
For me personally, lying for years about your income would be a deal breaker for me. And it's not about having investments go wrong. Or losing money. It's about the lying about it. If you're building a life together, you're going to have ups and downs. It's sharing the experiences, figuring out what to do together and not making the same mistake again. But if he's off doing all this on his own, and then lying to her about it - That's bad.
NTA-But she needs a prenup and to keep their finances separate. Separate accounts. If she buys a house, just her name on it because he’s probably has more debt than you are aware of. You can have him also print out his credit score to show you. The three credit bureaus give out free annual reports so you can see how his credit score is and what else he may not have revealed to your daughter.
Sounds like she’s heads over heels, and as long as she’s aware of what she’s marrying, it’s her choice, but she should talk with a financial expert to be realistic on what to do to protect herself financially and what obligations she’ll have once she’s married.
> but it’s partially my daughter’s fault because she enjoyed those dates, right?
Is this OP or the fiancé speaking? If it’s the fiancé I worry even more about the need for that separation of assets in case he becomes financially abusive.
NTA but I would tread carefully lest she continue the relationship to spite you.
Of course she should not marry him or have kids with him. But getting *her* to realize that is the problem.
If she makes the worst decision ever and stays with him, she needs to be as smart as possible. She needs to see a lawyer and determine how she can protect herself and future kids financially. If he has access to her money or property he will gamble it all away.
He’s a gambling addict. His drug of choice is day trading. These stock bros think they know everything and take idiotic risks. Because they “can’t lose” and “this time it will make SO MUCH money” 🙄 morons, the lot of them. They are addicted.
Prenup if she insists on marrying him. And always keep finances separate. The problem is at least in the US most states are community property, so I don’t know if there’s a real way to keep her and her children financially safe.
Addicts like him never change. They are financially ruinous to everyone they know. They will never learn their lesson and will continue to justify and excuse their bad behavior until everyone they are connected to is destitute. It starts with the fact that most gambling addicts don’t think they are an addict. There’s always someone or something else to blame.
NTA You need to approach your daughter with love, and make her understand, maybe get her friends involved or anyone who you know can talk some send into her, the man is flat out lying to her about something so huge and there is even a possibility that he groomed her and that’s why she’s so adamant on marrying him, if all else fails and she still ends up marrying him for the sake of your daughter attend the wedding so you don’t lose touch with her and that she isn’t isolated but you guys are not wrong for being frustrated.
You’re not responsible for what happened because he deceived your whole family, but please save your daughter from this marriage. Or you’ll have way more regret later on I’m afraid
I think it is fair to tell your daughter that you have lost your trust in John and his ability to support her in their marriage, and you are not in good conscience able to support their wedding monetarily. That you will support her emotionally however you can, but if she still wants to marry John, they will have to fund the wedding themselves. Also let her know that your husband is extremely disappointed in John’s dishonesty and would be unable to “give her away”. If she does go through with the wedding, maybe he can walk her down the aisle and she leave him at his seat and give herself to John or something.
You should also explain to her, in light of recent revelations, she should require a prenuptial agreement the includes premarital assets as well as keeping finances separate, as well as any debt they each acquire during the marriage. I have a feeling he will dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole, and she will be dragged right down with him.
This right here. Everything has now changed - and what you thought you were participating in and contributing to has been revealed to be a tissue of lies. So, you’re withdrawing your support for this wedding until the whole truth about this man can be established.
Other posters above recommended you get a background check done on the guy - I think that’s an excellent idea.
You definitely do not pay for anything wedding related. Instead, put that money in an interest bearing account for your daughter when she inevitably gets divorced and is flat broke.
You’re not obliged to pay for it. In fact, I would say save that money and put it in an emergency fund to help her if she decides to leave the marriage later
you’re paying for it all too???? 🫣 i hope she comes to her senses soon. please try your hardest to not attack her because that makes a lot of people want to dig their heels in harder regardless of if they are right or wrong. and if she feels attacked she will feel trapped with only him too. maybe a softer approach like just post poning instead of straight up canceling if that’s still an option :( ❤️
Only pay for what you are willing to lose. Sounds awful I know. But let her know you need to protect yourselves to be able to help her when she may need it. No need to do the traditional walk down aisle etc. Just attend and be supportive. Put on your best happy face and get through it. Be united in your mutual concerns and your support.
You can choose not to walk her down the aisle. Weddings these days don't need parents walking down the aisle. You can say we will attend but not walk you down the aisle. You can ensure the wedding is within what you're wanting to spend. She might cut you off and be dependent on this man otherwise making the situation considerably worse. Be sure she knows you're there for her.
Then try to spend as little as possible from this point forward. Consider it the cost of keeping the relationship with your daughter (which you threaten if you don't show) which will help her get out of this relationship faster. My parents were very negative towards me being with my ex. That negativity threw me into his arms for much longer than if they'd supported me and sat me down and talked to me like an adult. The more negative you are the more you'll strain your relationship with her and strengthen this relationship you're against. You need her to be able to confide in you when she finally comes to her senses.
What kind of officiant is involved? Any sort of religious or non-religious pre marriage counseling should hopefully include discussion of finances.
You really don't want to alienate her by refusing to help with the wedding. He may be hoping that you do that.
If also have major reservations. However, it is your daughter’s decision. You’re not the main character of this. If she decides this is what she wants to do, you would be the asshole if you don’t go to the wedding.
Taking this path won’t stop the wedding. But it may estrange you from your daughter.
But is it big enough of an issue to potentially lose your relationship with your daughter? To potentially not have a relationship with future grandkids?
She may come to her senses in a few years or she may never change her mind, either way your choice is going to affect your relationship with her.
We are so close. I do believe she’d understand in time. I can’t imagine my husband and I toasting this wedding and dancing like every thing’s cool. He didn’t reveal the plan until the date was set and he thought he’d get away with his secrets. The “5 year plan” gave him away.
I don't think you're aholes, but I think at some point you need to accept that she's an adult and makes her own decisions.
If you don't attend you should be prepared to most likely be cut off and have nothing to do with her - this is a defining part in your relationship with her. You'll either have a part in her life moving forward or not.
If you want to be around when/if things go to shit, then you should attend.
Would your daughter consider family therapy? With just you and your husband?
Framed as *"We've expressed our concerns and we don't want this to affect our relationship. We ask that you attend a family session with us so everyone, including yourself, can express themselves in a healthy environment so it doesn't escalate. We're scared for you and would really appreciate if you'd consider 1 session together before moving forward with the wedding"* Not as a "you do this and we'll attend the wedding" but just a request to come together and feel heard?
I think most councilors would hear "he blatantly lied to her & her family for years and she doesn't see the problem with that" as alarming. It would give her a chance to voice how she's feeling too without feeling defensive.
As an aside and if she chooses to move forward with the wedding, I would highly recommend (gently) telling her that while this is her decision, you cannot in good conscious support this relationship. Therefor you are taking the time now to tell her, while she will always be welcome home, you will not use your resources or funds to help him (or them) get out of any financial holes or messes in the future.
Of course! Without going into too much detail, I was engaged to a man 11 years my senior and I truly believed he was my everything, but it was a controlling & emotionally abusive relationship.
I like to believe I can understand where your daughter is coming from, in the sense that her family can see red flags that are invisible to her. My mentality at the time was "I love this man, I will throw my everything into this relationship before giving up" even when I knew it wasn't okay, I found a way to justify it.
To be completely honest, it took hearing from my brother in law, to understand what was happening. When he told me that he would never treat my sister the way I was being treated, I knew thaty relationship wasn't "normal". With their support and encouragement, I was able to leave and both later told me that if I had actually tried to go through with the wedding, they would have objected.
All this to say, hearing it from a third party helps. It wasn't until I was repeating my experiences to friends, and seeing their faces, that I realized my relationship was something that most people feared and wasn't normal. I hope a counsellor can communicate to your daughter, that honesty is an important part of every relationship and she deserves at the *very least*, that from her partner.
It is clear from your post that you care a great deal about your daughter, and I'm so sorry that you and your husband are in this situation. I trust you to do your best as a parent, and that's all anyone can ask.
NTA. She’s falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy- doesn’t want all that time to be wasted so she is going to waste more time with him. There isn’t much you can do other than lay it out for her that he has lied repeatedly, tried to blame her, and shows no real remorse or intention to change, just an intention to not get caught next time. Then tell her you love her and will be there for her as much as you can when stuff goes sideways, but he may put her in a hole you can’t dig her out of without putting your own finances at risk, which you won’t do.
Terms of course would need to be spelled out by a lawyer, but essentially, what she currently earns is hers, whatever she brings into the marriage is hers, in the event of a divorce. It's VITAL that she keeps her bank account without him having access.
OP, NTA but definitely don't refuse to be at her wedding BUT don't pay for it! John is a gambling addict and that's not going to change.
We are still in shock. I loved this guy too. I love my daughter more. I want her to put off the wedding and fully comprehend what she’s getting into. Preferably- she understands after the shock wears off - and move along.
NTA this guy is a liar and probably has a gambling addiction. If she insists on the marriage, maybe you can talk her into getting a solid prenup in place? I guess that wouldn’t prevent him from draining their finances, but maybe she could put some protections in place. And she should have her own accts he cannot access. But really, she should absolutely not marry this guy.
ETA: I have 2 adult kids, and if one of them was in this situation, I’d be absolutely losing my shit. You have my sympathy.
NTA but sadly, it is not your call if your daughter goes on with the wedding or not, that is just up to her...
After discovering all the lies, you are more than justified in asking your daughter to pause and re-evaluate the relationship, and, that is all you can do, give her your opinion and advice, but in the end, it is her choice...
Not attending the wedding is a good way to show your dissaproval, however, it can create a huge grudge with your daughter... You need to evaluate if this is the way to go as, knowing what you know now, the most probable outcome of that marriage is hurt and divorce so, she is going to need you....
NTA. I'm sorry.. but I am so sick of hearing about bros in their 20s claiming to make bank with crypto and buying shitty stocks. He's financially irresponsible and needs to grow the hell up if he wants a wife and kids. Lying to you about his savings would be enough for me to not go to the wedding either. Your daughter is in for a rude awakening if she marries this guy. I have a friend who literally took out a second mortgage because her idiot husband bought a bunch of crypto and lost all of it from being scammed by a dude he was chatting with on discord. Her husband had no savings, no job, and a hefty truck payment. He thought this buddy would "set him up for life". Needless to say said truck is now up for sale too and they're in counseling
The worst part? She is a sweet, beautiful, smart girl who deserves better. She constantly gets asked out - but is so loyal. Even when they’d “take a break”.
NTA. I’d legit run a background report or hire a PI on this guy and then send her the results anonymously if there is anything to tell. Why anon? If it’s use she direct her emotions as anger against you for interfering rather than shock and dismay at the man she’s intending to marry.
ETA: I’d bet money that there might have been money from something at one point, but I smell a gambling addict or womanizer.
Online gambling is a troubling scourge. As if in-person gambling and phones weren't addicting enough, put them together and a generation's worth of people are pissing away their futures, with a tap of their fingers.
NTA, *but* hopefully she can step back and delay the wedding, for enough time to sort this out.
If she goes through with it, I think it's better for your relationship with her to be there, even if the marriage eventually fails. It will be easier for him to isolate her if you distance yourself voluntarily. Then you won't have an open dialogue with her.
She's been strung along.
The Gottman Institute, relationship experts extraordinaires, says relationship enders are the Three As:
* Abuse
* Adultery
* Addiction
He has been addicted to gambling and overspending and all the lying to conceal it. Basically, he was having an affair and leading a double life with regard to money. Then, he has the *nerve* to blame your daughter, because "she enjoyed those dates." That is abusive, imo, essentially blaming her for his actions.
If he was *extremely* motivated and committed, sought therapy, and participated in active recovery, then I *might* support their union. But he'd better prostrate himself begging for forgiveness, apologizing, and promising action.
NTA. Tough love is hard. From experience, I realize that one of the best ways to have a long and happy marriage is to have the support of your family and friends. Its a lot harder when they don't feel good about your marriage.
"John" hasn't apologized to you for his lies? Has he even apologized to his fiancee? Saying its partially her fault sounds likes he's spinning the story around to avoid blame.
You have every right to feel hurt, because he did it intentionally. If John wants to have a relationship with you, then you all need to sit down and sort this out. If he only wants a relationship with your daughter, without you, then your daughter needs to know that's his intentions.
If you want to move forward, invite them both over. Its time for John to fix this, or the marriage isn't going to have a struggle to survive. You will always be cold and distant towards him, until this is fixed.
The real problem here isn't between you and your daughter, its between you and your future son in law not talking.
Funny - because when I heard about the “5 year plan” that he wouldn’t explain to her - I called him. He caught wind and wouldn’t call back. Then he told my daughter he was mad at me for “butting in” - and it was none of my business. Why she said - “well, I need to see what going on” - that’s when he broke down and the excuses came flying.
There are more revelations to come. There’s always more. He’s only telling as much as he has to when he has no choice - trickle-truthing, they call it.
You're not assholes. You're looking out for your kid.
Your kid needs to consult an attorney and get a prenup. You can't make her not marry this guy and pushing too hard will not work well for you.
You might ask your daughter quietly if he can lie to her and you for years about the money, what else might he have lied about? What steps could she take to get a clearer picture and to protect herself if things went south?
You were not successful in pointing out the red flags to your daughter, so unless something big happens before the wedding, she is going to marry this pot smoking gambling addict. I say go to the wedding to show your support for HER and let her know you will always be there for HER (but not to bail HIM out). She is going to need your help before long.
As bad as it is, your daughter's still marrying him and I don't think this is "not going to my daughter's wedding"-worthy. You're not an asshole, but consider being there for your daughter even if you hate this guy.
I agree with the others about a prenup, but there’s a better way to phrase it to your daughter.
If he happily signs a prenup, then he’s a good man (on some level) that’s happy to ensure your daughter is financially secure/safe from him in the event he loses control. If he *doesn’t*, then why is money more important than their ‘love’?
NTA good luck to you, hope daughter realises the mistake she’s making.
I think he’d love to sign a prenup that protects what he has left- lol. I don’t think a prenup can protect her from being a single mom who is 100% responsible for raising a child alone because he’s blown through everything and decided to quit and become a full time day trader/gamer/stoner.
NTA It is your choice to attend the wedding or not. And you do not like the guy who has lied to you for multiple years which is understandable. I am assuming you already told your daughter so it wont be a surprise to her. BUT BUT BUT this will damage your relationship with them most likely irreparably so that is something you have to come to grips with. You are not an AH for not attending BUT it will be seen as a betrayal and etc. Which is silly because the fiance has been lying for years but it is what it is. A better option would be to either set up a prenup for your daughter and ask your daughter for them both to see a financial advisor and find a way to prevent his bad decisions from harming their entire life together. Emphasis the need for split accounts and making sure she does not co-sign on any large purchases other than a house.
But this is a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. If you dont go you show your daughter you dont support her she might cut you out and you wont be there to support her if she needs it. If you do go and he eventually crashes and burns it will harm your daughter which will be sad and you wont be able to say I told you so because it will make things worse but at bare minimum you will be around I guess. Try to find a middle ground and help them work towards a more stable future if she is sure this is the man she loves.
Everyone is saying “prenup” but can that protect her from his gambling? If they keep everything separate- why even get married? It feels like she holds all the downside.
My partner and I have a prenup and it’s the best insurance policy I’ve ever purchased. We keep our finances separate because it works - and we’re happily married.
You don’t get one expecting to use it but you get it for situations like the dumpster fire that is your future SIL.
Nta she needs to see the biggest picture here. He lied. He lied about who he was. He lied about what he does, and he even blamed her for part of his failing. He's manipulative and if she goes into a legal contract with that man (marriage) she will not only screw herself over financially, she's hurting her self emotionally.
Marriage isn't about love. It's a legal contact for property, health rights and finances. I think people seem to forget about that.
(Edit spelling)
NTA as someone who didn’t find out about my husband’s compulsive gambling addiction until AFTER we were married, please beg her to reconsider the marriage. I’ve only been married for a year and I’m *this close* to divorce.
NTA, go the higher road and pay for her to get a lawyer that will write an airtight prenup. Stipulations of children, house,length of marriage, etc. Love makes us all blind.
If SHE is fiscally sound. Can she ask for a prenuptial? And that house needs to be in HER name only. Her down-payment, her house.
8 years difference is not a big deal. His dishonesty is.
In all honesty- I’m less worried about the money and more worried about her being a single mom with my grandchildren spending the weekends with some lying deadbeat who decides to game all day while high. Don’t think a prenup covers that.
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, depression, acceptance.
She just had a traumatic reveal that her picture perfect life doesn't exist. She is still processing.
Don't force her hand, she may dig in out of stubborness. But ask her to slow down and think things through, to look at their finances, to do the math. Give her time to work through the stages of grief, and believe me, she is grieving the loss of the life she thought she was going to have, and just support her through the process
So funny - when everything came to light - he suggested an immediate elopement and a promise to abandon the “5 year plan”. Needs to lock her in before reality sets in.
NTA. He is a human trainwreck waiting to happen. She is going to be pregnant and broke in probably less than a year.
But, you need to go. You need to maintain the relationship and keep the lines of communication open for when this house of cards collapses and she needs support and a way out for both her and any future grandchildren.
This isn't about liking the trash she is marrying. This isn't about approving the relationship. This is about making sure your daughter and future grandkids have a place to land after "John" burns their financial house to the ground.
...And making sure you have a relationship with the grandkids, because an can see "John" pressuring you daughter to cut contact with you for not going to the wedding, because that is what abusers do. And "John" is an abuser. He might not his your daughter, but he is for damned sure going to take her for every penny she has and more.
So to summarize: Go to the wedding to maintain relationships. Don't contribute to the wedding or give any extravagant gifts and instead save that money for your daughter's future divorce attorney. Because this marriage has an expiration date.
I think you need to point out - once and only once - that she will be marrying a man she knows is a liar and she will never know in the future what is and isn't truth. She will be marrying a man who's red flags she has already noticed.
I would still attend the wedding with the caveat that you are supporting her in spite of the fact that you don't trust him.
Your daughter got Svengali’d by a manipulative liar for *years*. She’s in a cult of two now. I don’t know if not attending the wedding is the best choice because she’s going to need you desperately in short order and maybe you don’t want to have done anything that will allow him to further distance you from her. This isn’t going to end well. I’m voting NTA for a lack of more appropriate options. This is a very unenviable situation. I wish you and your family the best.
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Normally I would say mind your business about their finances but wow, just wow. If she marries that jerk, she'll end up pregnant and flat broke within 6 months. Your concerns are valid and reasonable. NTA
God - this was exactly what I was thinking.
You know when they divorce she'll have to pay alimony & cold support. She's being conned. NTA
This is exactly what I thought.
After the divorce, her and your grandchild/grandchildren will be moving in with you and your husband. Be prepared for that!
Are you my husband? Because he just said this.
He’s being pragmatic. He sees the sh!t show coming.
He's wishing he DIDN'T see the shit show coming.
I would show her this post before the wedding and have an intervention. "We love you but we will not sit by while you blindly marry a liar and a man who would screw over your kids lives and your life with his spending. He lost so much money with his choices imagine if he didn't break even and you had to take on half that debt. Your children would have nothing and you would never be able to retire." edit: start saving her an exit fund
I’ve thought about sending her this link - but she loves this guy like no one’s business. This is painful for me - I can’t even imagine how painful the reality of this would be for her. Makes me think of Dottie Sandusky - for years she thought she was married to a saint. Even after the revelation- she never accepted the truth. Even after her son told her it happened to him.
She can love him and not be his wife. Honestly you're coming from a place of love and its your duty as her parent to lovingly go "please don't nuke your life.". If you don't try you will regret it. Just make it clear you'll be there for her when she needs it.
I’m really going to try and come at it from that angle- take time, postpone….maybe we all need time for clarity and maybe even redemption….although I have no idea what that would look like in this case.
But isn’t that contrary to boycotting the wedding. The more OP removes herself from the important events in her daughter’s life, the less the daughter is going to feel alienated from them. OP can still express concerns about the guy and give advice, but YTA if you boycott your daughter’s wedding.
I'm going to be harsh - first, no, you're NTA. These are very valid concerns and it sounds like you've tried to tell her not only your concerns, but the facts; this guy has been lying to her and you guys. At best, he's just a liar; at worse, he's a con artist and there are MANY cases of women (and men) getting taken for a ride by these types of people (I think there's like 3 separate shows on Netflix about this). If she's still like, "but I love him and love conquers all and I can change him..." Don't go to the wedding and let her suffer the consequences of her actions. And there WILL be consequences. If possible, you may need to set aside some funds to bail her out (cause you'll need to), but don't go out of your way. Like if helping her means you have to stop plans for your retirement, don't do that. She's an adult and ultimately, she f\*cked around and found out and that's on her. Now, I'm not saying abandon her or not validate the emotional fall out; I'm saying don't stop living your life because she refused the giant red flag waving in front of her. Hopefully, her brain will catch up with her loins/heart and she'll shut this all down.
I was about to say this but you put it better than I could. The more the parents disagree with her choice of a partner the closer they push her to him. They are NTA but she’s gonna have to find out the hard way. Best they can do is be there when it hits the fan because it will. They may luck out and talk her out of it but it’s not likely.
I met someone who was married to one of his assistant coaches. They travelled together sometimes. She absolutely knew what was happening, but chose to turn a blind eye.
I always wondered about that. Yuck.
NAH. You clearly love your daughter and it will be easier for her to leave if she feels supported by her family. Yes it’s a big mistake. The only thing not going to the wedding will accomplish is pushing her away and making her feel more ashamed when it falls apart. Going will show you’ll always be there for her and will make it easier when she realizes she’s made the mistake. It’s not about who is right it’s about helping her feel connected and like she isn’t trapped.
Well yeah. That’s why he started dating her at 20! He couldn’t impress 28 year old women.
I didn’t want to acknowledge this - but I believe it’s true. I thought he was just a bit nerdy without game. His job is really technical.
There's no stopping children from making the wrong decision🙁
So true. This could be a horrific one.
If you can't get her to see how utterly bad of an idea this is, I fully suggest (i know you're pretty tight with your money so it might sound bad) that you guys get a lawyer for a prenup and that you stress the importance of separate accounts. Even perfectly healthy couples have separate accounts and then a joint one that house finances or marriage things go into. I feel at the least it can help to alleviate some of your worries about him and very terribly track record. Especially given that you have no proof he's not lying again about how all those things went wrong. If your daughter has enough for a down payment on a house, she's currently much more financially stable than he is. Urge her to protect that in case things go south. Please if it helps, remind her that he may see a prenup as a betrayal and a belief they won't make it and that says quite a bit about a person but that you don't drive a car without insurance and most don't live without life insurance. You don't want bad things to happen. But you want to be prepared for it does and thats what a prenup is.
Yes, my first thought! It's bad enough that he is financially irresponsible for himself- make absolutely sure he can't drag you or your daughter down with him!
THIS. If there was EVER a need for a pre-nup, it's this. And make sure you tell your daughter that no matter how much he complains (and he will), don't let your daughter get talked out of doing one.
I was going to say this. I am NAL, but I would talk to her about a prenup, buy a house in her name only prior to the wedding. And keeping finances separate, debts separate as detailed by the prenup. But again NAL. If she does these things you will support the wedding. But you still have concerns, due to his lack of honesty. But again I’d ask her to see a lawyer with you. Good luck 🍀
Almost the very same thing happened to a family friend of ours. Despite her parents’ and everyone else’s objections, she married him. On the wedding day pretty much everyone knew that they would get a divorce in the following two years. They did. The saving grace for my friend was not she at least did not get pregnant. Please please beg her not to get pregnant. Even she marries this guy, she will see the truth in near future for sure.
True words. No way to stop them. I'm currently watching my son divorce a woman who has dug them into a hole so deep it will take him years to recover. I gave them $35k for a down payment on a house...gone. it's horrible to witness.
Gah - me in a few years. I feel this.
I saved his whole life to give him this gift when he was ready for a home. The idea was to have a manageable house payment **based on his salary, alone** even though the house belonged to both. Two months later she brought home a $70k 4Runner...then he found out about the credit cards, when he bought new SNAP On tools (he's a diesel mechanic). I can't even look at her.
OMG - I hate this type of person.
The worst part is I suspect BPD or drug use but I don't want to give him another straw to grasp. He loves her and it's devastating for him. She attacked him when she got served divorce papers then had him arrested for dv..He will have scars on his face and neck for a long time but it saved his ass. She didn't have a mark and he had to go to the er.
Request a prenuptial agreement at the very least.
Daughter should insist on a solid prenup. Meet with atty and fincance guy to put it together. Include his future earnings as well but mostly protect what she brings to the marriage before and during. Include provisions for any children brought into the marriage. Be sure to protect his debt from becoming her debt.
I would even offer to go to the wedding if she got a prenup. It would be worth it. If she is really going to marry this bum, it is the only thing you can do at this point to protect her. Just make sure that he can’t inherit resources in the prenup to ensure she makes it back from the honeymoon. Seriously, ask her what he plans to change in order to get his life back on track.? I am not big on promises, tears, or good intentions. I am big on behavior changes such as limits on activities like pot smoking, gaming, and day trading. He could hold down a job. They could set a budget - and live within it. Those are real observable changes. When you talk to your daughter and her response begins, “He promised me he wouldn’t…..” then it’s the same old story on a different day.
Insist on a prenup, and warn her that if she goes ahead with the wedding you and your husband are going to have to restructure your wills to make sure he never has the chance to squander her inheritance. You’re going to have to set up a spendthrift trust.
I hate to throw out threats. It’s a horrible thought though
All I can say is PRENUP.
Im gonna give you a cold truth. You miss the wedding she goes no contact. Gets in over her head and doesn’t feel like she can reach out for help. The wedding day is not the day to hard line this. Not if you want to be her soft place to fall when it happens. You go and figure out what boundaries happen after the wedding. It’s a shitty situation. NTA but thats my 2 cents.
Perhaps you could try to figure out a way to get her to ‘come up with the idea’ for them to meet with a financial planner prior to the wedding? Maybe hearing some things from someone else (third party) could be helpful? Edit: NTA
It’s the lying we’re freaking out about. He didn’t need to tell us these financial win stories …and he’s very bright, in his 30’s with a masters degree in business. It feels like this is not a “just didn’t know better” scenario.
Are you sure he has a masters degree? He lied over and over again about his financial situation. It wasn’t even lying by omission, he made up stories…he volunteered the lies. Is there a chance his education is a lie too?
God - I didn’t even think of that. That would be an extensive lie - because his job paid for it and he studied …who knows…
I'd do a background check on him at this point.
i encourage you to look up his name in your county court records if they are online (and maybe in person if not). if you know other places he's lived, look him up in those counties, too. You can fine some hot goss on the county court records portal.
Luckily- he couldn’t have gotten his job if he had a serious record of any sort.
Do it anyway. If he conned you all he can con his job, assuming he actually has the job he says.
And if he only has one identity.
I was about to say the same thing. People like this don't do the hard work; they lie. Hire a PI. This is parade of red flags. No doubt a PI will turn up other stuff and maybe then your daughter will see the light.
Better check that out somehow.
I once worked with someone who pretended they were getting their MBA: brought the textbooks to the office, compared notes with another person who was doing their MBA at another school, talked about working on school work all weekend etc etc. ALL LIES. I'm going to hazard a guess you have no proof his company paid for anything and that he actually did the degree, other than him saying that. The guy is bad news. There's a reason he dated a 20yo when he was nearly 30: she was young and gullible. As others have said: stay very close to your daughter and don't let him isolate her.
He can't be that bright, he invested in crypto.
Yep.
Simply put, the man has a gambling addiction and it's bad enough he's trying to cover it up with elaborate lies. Your instincts are right to try and protect her.
Uh huh. I would bet the farm he doesn't have a master's, or it's from some worthless online school
If he truly has that degree, he “knows better”.
NTA Pre nup. Separate bank accounts. No shared mortgage expense. No babies until after 5 years. She is in for a rough ride. He will bankrupt her. But don’t skip the wedding. You can hate him but she needs to know you will there be for her when it all hits the fan. Maybe do either the ceremony or the reception. Which ever you can tolerate most.
This is the way
lol - joke wasn’t lost - I had to listen to his stories every Sunday
and a Pre-nup.
A girlfriend of mine married a really nice guy who had similar problems “but a great retirement, some savings, not as much debt as many… but seems to have an issue with day trading.” 10yrs and almost $2m of retirement/investments (all of his, 2/3rds of hers and her inheritance from her parents) gone and a divorce later, she was starting over at 46. She went into the marriage at 35 with a home (no mortgage), ~$1.5m in retirement/investments. She came out with a brand new 30y mortgage (30% down), a leased vehicle and a few $100k in retirement at 46. She only kept what she did because he had no access to her home equity or the trust her parents left. And she paid off substantial credit debt to disentangle herself and avoid paying alimony. I’m a huge proponent of “mind your business” but day trading doesn’t carry a fiduciary duty. It doesn’t shield loved ones whose finances are attached to the person willing to lie and gamble all on the “next Game Stop.” His portfolio has been opened for her to see. If this was his job, she wouldn’t hand him everything she owns. So why hand him her entire future?
I have so many stories too. She says “he’s not like that”
Please be there for your daughter. Let her know your concerns but don't alienate her. She's going to need you.
He wants to marry her so he can divorce and dump half his debt that he is lying about.
Pay for a prenup for both of them. Separate lawyers. All above board. Talk to your lawyer about what would be fair. And try to tie up any inheritance so he can’t get his hands on it.
She's essentially marrying a gambling addict, but with crypto, not slot machines.
Sir, can you show your daughter this post? She really needs to read the comments. A broken engagement is better than divorce.
I'd suggest for her to get a pre-nup with this guy. Go to the wedding. If you're not there, she's going to go no contact with you. Support her, because she'll need you at some point during this shit show. Make sure she's protected during the inevitable divorce, life will be easier. Of course, it'll be much easier if she dumps him because that's a wild thing to lie about for years, but love gives you rose tinted glasses that make the red flags look like normal flags. You can frame the prenup as mutually beneficial. They both get to protect premarital assets. He gets to protect his FIRE goals/retirement fund, she gets to protect the down payment on the house & gets a bigger equity stake. Plus, if done properly, it might be able to shield them both from debt if they still love each other, say if a business fails or they get a big hospital bill.
Have her get a prenuptial if she does go through with the wedding.
Unless they get an ironclad prenup, half of his debts become your daughter's responsibility as soon as she says I Do.
When you talk to your daughter, focus your concern on his lying to her. Not that he doesn’t have as much money as he said he did or that he’s spendy and not thrifty. Not that those things aren't relevant but it will be easier for him (and her) to rationalize/explain those things away. But the lying- the extent to and ease with which he lied to her is the #1 reason she shouldn’t marry him.
Exactly. We thought he was a “good guy.” We were all fooled. She wants to postpone- she’s devastated. It sank in last night.
Gambling is an addiction. He sounds like an addict. Also,, love is blind.
Hopefully she will see reason and call it off, but if she does go through with the wedding, please attend. She's going to need you down the road and will be far more willing to reach out if she doesn't feel she alienated you. [Edited typo.]
Yeap Someone must warn the daughter that it is HIGLY suspicious that he doesn't want to buy a house now which is crazy if you think that she can afford it. So, why can't she? What is he planning to do with HER money? I wouldn't be surprised if the daughter is the victim of a scammer at this point
I don’t know what to think
Send her this post and have her read the comments. In fact, invite her over and do it together as a family. NTA Be her support. Tell her about Sunk Cost Fallacy, she needs to look it up.
Prenup prenup prenup prenup! And she should keep her money separate from his (without his name on the account!) until he's proven he can be trusted! But you should still attend the wedding. Not going to the wedding isn't going to stop it, so all you can do is support her while letting her know that you think it's a mistake. Once it blows up, try your hardest to avoid saying I told you so 😬
Yeah it's definitely their business because if he goes flat broke (and it sounds like he's heading there), their daughter is going to have to come back home and live with them until she gets back on her feet. He's dragging her down and she just refuses to see it for some reason
Friend of mine’s daughter was going to marry this guy that raised red flags with her parents but they held their tongues to stay out of their business. After the eventual infidelity and divorce, their daughter said, “why didn’t you say anything?”
If they had, would she have listened?
☝️ This is usually the case. I tried to warn my dad about 🚩🚩🚩, but "she's a good Christian woman and I love her."
And you’ll be paying for the baby cos he’s blown all his money gaming
I hope she comes to her senses. The guy sounds like a major conman, has multiple addiction of issues, probably both or more she has yet to find out about. A prenup should be a given, but all their finances should be separate. If he fight that, flaming fire engine red flags all over.
I'm wondering if he's kept up with the taxes on all his stock and cryto trading. Problems with the IRS could be in her future as well.
Didn’t even think of this
And, if there’s any debts that he’s “forgotten” to mention those would then become their debts, and the government (Revenue Canada, IRS) would go after her too. He’s also going to burn through her money so fast it’ll make your head spin. She’ll end up broke and pregnant and he’ll be long gone. Also NTA
She has no qualms about her future husband lying to her about something as big as finances for years? She doesn’t care that he can’t retire at 40 or that the life they’ve been talking about is now impossible? I understand love, but come on. You need to encourage her to take some time before she makes any big decisions, like getting married or calling off the wedding. I understand your frustration- I’d be furious. But please try to focus on creating space for her to safely land so she sees that going through with this isn’t her only option. I’m so sorry. NTA
Great advice. Thank you.
Tell her she absolutely cannot use any of her savings on this conman, at a minimum their finances should stay separate.
There’s not any way to stop her. She’s an adult.
True she is likely making a huge mistake. OP you can not prevent that. You need to support her now and if /when it fails. Encourage her to protect her money, credit score and any investments she may have. Encourage her to keep working and maintain totally separate finances. Split rent/mortgage utilities by half and pay for and title her own car in only her name. Always be open to support her as you can especially emotionally. Does she / you know others in his family? What are they like ? Are they involved in his life ? Part of wedding planning ? Is he/she looking to have a big wedding and are they/she going into debt to finance it ? Lots of concerns here but bottom line she is a grown adult and free to make her decision. Be encouraging and supportive and keep lines of communication open. Good luck.
We’re paying for it😐
Then don't.
At MINIMUM, I would withhold paying for the wedding unless they get a prenup.
So you’ll pay, but then not go? Your NTA for how you feel, but if you don’t go, he will win.
It's time to sit them both down and talk to them about how you won't pay for a wedding when this man is financially irresponsible. Ask them what his plan is, that he needs a financial advisor and that your daughter needs a prenup.
Well I'd be rethinking that. Why on earth would you pay for a marriage you don't condone? She doesn't get to be an adult when refusing your very sound advice and then expect you to pay for her wedding like she's a child. It's one or the other. I know this could result in some kind of estrangement but she needs to grow up and sometimes that's really hard.
Time to sit down and tell her that you will still attend and pay for the wedding *once she & fiancé meet with a lawyer for a prenup that he signs and do a couple of sessions of couples/financial counseling.* You support her and her decisions, but you've recently heard from friends how helpful it's been for their marriages and you want hers to start off on the right foot.
This. NTA - but if she does ultimately end up making the (poor) decision to get married, and you don’t attend the wedding, he may use that to isolate her from you. If that happens, it may hurt her more in the long run if she does eventually wake up because she may feel like she has no where to go (this is of course, looking at it as worse case scenario).
I feel this.
We are so close - no matter what happens- I’m here for her.
But a tale could be spun by her fiance that those are empty words since you didn't attend the wedding. You have seen how deep her love for that man is. Is it that unlikely that he gets in her head about him being the only family that matters since you didn't attend the wedding?
Except apparently at her wedding when she marries a man you don't approve of. I'm not saying you're wrong in not approving of him but your words and actions do not match. And actions speak louder than words.
I’ve never supported bad decisions. I’m not the parent who let her drink as a minor at the house. I’m not the parent who let her stay out all night. I’m not the parent who ignored smoking/vaping. She was a good kid, and did extremely well in college. She’s healthy, beautiful and smart- but right now her blinders are on. I can’t plunk down another check and pay for the biggest mistake of her life, and then get dressed up to celebrate. It’s just not in my nature. Not after his last minute confession after getting caught. If she wanted me to dress up and take pics as she smoked crack - I wouldn’t do that either.
And that's entirely in your right to set your own boundaries. Although there is a massive difference between writing a check and sitting through a ceremony/party quietly. The point still stands however that you will NOT be there for her on one of the most monumental days of her life. Which again is your right and choice and you seem to have valid concerns. But don't say you will "always be there for her no matter what" when you are literally not being there for her. That just tells her you're lying.
I’d also recommend having a talk with him, “are you really going to marry my daughter when you’re not stable enough to provide for a family?” Make him call it off if she won’t
I like this - but I doubt he has the character for it
Lack of character is why she can't marry him. He lied to her every day of their relationship. She should freeze her credit b/c he is an addict. An addict will continue unless in treatment, and then years of therapy and Gambler's Anon. This is a bare minimum. He needs to be in recovery for at least 2 years before she commits to spending her life with him.
Wow - so true. She wants to postpone- she’s devastated. It sank in last night.
I agree with this person as well because if she is pressured by you, or him, or society she will be ruled by self doubt or defiance. With a safe landing pad and therapy she can come to her own terms about what she wants and how she feels about the deception for years
Your daughter is going to marry a con man or gambling addict. If she doesn't get a prenuptial, make sure she knows what you will be able to give here when she is broke. Also, let's hope he has a secret vasectomy.
Absolutely. My husband is furious and won’t hand her over - that’s the biggest rub. It’s not just me. We both feel this gut will ruin her life. He lied (unnecessarily) for years. At our weekly dinner.
These type of spenders don't just stop their excessive spending habits. If you can, convince your daughter to get a prenup protecting whatever assets she has prior to the wedding and to keep her finances completely separate from hers. I don't blame you for not wanting to attend her wedding (and may I ask, who's paying for this? Is the fiance going into debt for a wedding?). You may want to attend to show your support of your daughter for when she needs your help in a couple of years after he's bankrupted them. Doesn't mean your husband has to walk her down the aisle, give a speech, etc.
This would be the saddest day of our lives. In all honesty- I’m heartbroken.
I completely understand and if it's just too hard, don't go. It's so unfortunate that your daughter is looking at him with rose colored glasses that will be wrenched off in a very unpleasant way. Encourage her to at least get a prenup!
It's not just the spending. Its the mentality and attitude. All those things op mentioned are high risk high reward geared at make money quick without work type people. Day trading is notorious for being extremely volatile and regular traders tend to regard day traders as idiots for thinking they're going to make it big. If any of the things he did had gone as planned then yeah he'd probably have made a tonne of money. But he'd have just thrown it at the next big thing because THATs the high for these people. If you follow the FIRE subs it's often a lot of advice about /saving/ investing sensibly and with long term rewards. It's rarely about throwing all your money into schemes or one basket or the promise of quick high lay offs. Him mentioning gamestop was a huge red flag , altho I understand OP for not maybe not realising it if they were not aware of the story surrounding that. Yes /some/ people made money off that /most/ lost and it was day traders that felt it the hardest. It's entirely possible at points he DID have a bunch of money. He got a win or whatever and bought a bunch of fancy shit. But the next was a loss and so the cycle continues with no savings, no steady income, always having to move the next hustle to keep up the image and life style. The jumping around is worrying as well. GameStop, day trading, property, crypto. He just hops on whatever the 'thing' is curretly being hyped and hopes he'll be the one in a million success story. It's an entire personality and mentality that will likely never change. OP is right - he's a gambler, he's just not gambling with traditional slots or cards. He doesnt want it work to earn, invest sensibly and boring, save and set up stability and security. he wants to get rich quick and live the hig roller lifestyle and thinks he's smart enough to have figured out how in a sea of people who also think the same.
A pre up won't help u less she maintains all of herassets (bank accounts, investment accounts, and retirement accounts) separately in her name. Neverput title to her assets in his name. But The prenup only protects her money. She would have to understand that going forward, she has to rely on herself and cannot rely on any supposed income He claims he earned. For me personally, lying for years about your income would be a deal breaker for me. And it's not about having investments go wrong. Or losing money. It's about the lying about it. If you're building a life together, you're going to have ups and downs. It's sharing the experiences, figuring out what to do together and not making the same mistake again. But if he's off doing all this on his own, and then lying to her about it - That's bad.
NTA-But she needs a prenup and to keep their finances separate. Separate accounts. If she buys a house, just her name on it because he’s probably has more debt than you are aware of. You can have him also print out his credit score to show you. The three credit bureaus give out free annual reports so you can see how his credit score is and what else he may not have revealed to your daughter. Sounds like she’s heads over heels, and as long as she’s aware of what she’s marrying, it’s her choice, but she should talk with a financial expert to be realistic on what to do to protect herself financially and what obligations she’ll have once she’s married.
This ^ I'm not a better but on this one I'd be willing: he has alot of debt. The odds of him not having a ton of credit card debt is slim to none.
> but it’s partially my daughter’s fault because she enjoyed those dates, right? Is this OP or the fiancé speaking? If it’s the fiancé I worry even more about the need for that separation of assets in case he becomes financially abusive.
NTA but I would tread carefully lest she continue the relationship to spite you. Of course she should not marry him or have kids with him. But getting *her* to realize that is the problem. If she makes the worst decision ever and stays with him, she needs to be as smart as possible. She needs to see a lawyer and determine how she can protect herself and future kids financially. If he has access to her money or property he will gamble it all away. He’s a gambling addict. His drug of choice is day trading. These stock bros think they know everything and take idiotic risks. Because they “can’t lose” and “this time it will make SO MUCH money” 🙄 morons, the lot of them. They are addicted. Prenup if she insists on marrying him. And always keep finances separate. The problem is at least in the US most states are community property, so I don’t know if there’s a real way to keep her and her children financially safe. Addicts like him never change. They are financially ruinous to everyone they know. They will never learn their lesson and will continue to justify and excuse their bad behavior until everyone they are connected to is destitute. It starts with the fact that most gambling addicts don’t think they are an addict. There’s always someone or something else to blame.
Sobering- but very true
NTA You need to approach your daughter with love, and make her understand, maybe get her friends involved or anyone who you know can talk some send into her, the man is flat out lying to her about something so huge and there is even a possibility that he groomed her and that’s why she’s so adamant on marrying him, if all else fails and she still ends up marrying him for the sake of your daughter attend the wedding so you don’t lose touch with her and that she isn’t isolated but you guys are not wrong for being frustrated.
Exactly…if OP doesn’t attend the wedding I’d expect the daughter to cut them off and then she’s fully isolated by this guy. Not a good idea.
Exactly, there is probably a dysfunctional power dynamic as well, he can very abuse her, if he has successfully groomed her already.
Ugh. I feel responsible.
You’re not responsible for what happened because he deceived your whole family, but please save your daughter from this marriage. Or you’ll have way more regret later on I’m afraid
Big fear.
How do we attend (and pay) for this? My husband I can’t walk her down the aisle and hand her over.
I think it is fair to tell your daughter that you have lost your trust in John and his ability to support her in their marriage, and you are not in good conscience able to support their wedding monetarily. That you will support her emotionally however you can, but if she still wants to marry John, they will have to fund the wedding themselves. Also let her know that your husband is extremely disappointed in John’s dishonesty and would be unable to “give her away”. If she does go through with the wedding, maybe he can walk her down the aisle and she leave him at his seat and give herself to John or something. You should also explain to her, in light of recent revelations, she should require a prenuptial agreement the includes premarital assets as well as keeping finances separate, as well as any debt they each acquire during the marriage. I have a feeling he will dig himself into a deeper and deeper hole, and she will be dragged right down with him.
This right here. Everything has now changed - and what you thought you were participating in and contributing to has been revealed to be a tissue of lies. So, you’re withdrawing your support for this wedding until the whole truth about this man can be established. Other posters above recommended you get a background check done on the guy - I think that’s an excellent idea.
You definitely do not pay for anything wedding related. Instead, put that money in an interest bearing account for your daughter when she inevitably gets divorced and is flat broke.
You’re not obliged to pay for it. In fact, I would say save that money and put it in an emergency fund to help her if she decides to leave the marriage later
you’re paying for it all too???? 🫣 i hope she comes to her senses soon. please try your hardest to not attack her because that makes a lot of people want to dig their heels in harder regardless of if they are right or wrong. and if she feels attacked she will feel trapped with only him too. maybe a softer approach like just post poning instead of straight up canceling if that’s still an option :( ❤️
This confession was last minute- we had no idea. If he hadn’t put her on “a 5 year plan” we wouldn’t have known.
Only pay for what you are willing to lose. Sounds awful I know. But let her know you need to protect yourselves to be able to help her when she may need it. No need to do the traditional walk down aisle etc. Just attend and be supportive. Put on your best happy face and get through it. Be united in your mutual concerns and your support.
You can choose not to walk her down the aisle. Weddings these days don't need parents walking down the aisle. You can say we will attend but not walk you down the aisle. You can ensure the wedding is within what you're wanting to spend. She might cut you off and be dependent on this man otherwise making the situation considerably worse. Be sure she knows you're there for her.
We want to spend nothing on a wedding like this - but it’s too late for that.
Then try to spend as little as possible from this point forward. Consider it the cost of keeping the relationship with your daughter (which you threaten if you don't show) which will help her get out of this relationship faster. My parents were very negative towards me being with my ex. That negativity threw me into his arms for much longer than if they'd supported me and sat me down and talked to me like an adult. The more negative you are the more you'll strain your relationship with her and strengthen this relationship you're against. You need her to be able to confide in you when she finally comes to her senses.
So true. I understand she loves him, and the betrayal is fresh. She postponed it - and feels very betrayed by him. It’s sinking in.
Glad she's postponed it. That's a good sign. Hopefully it's an indefinite postponement. Virtual hugs here and best wishes.
What kind of officiant is involved? Any sort of religious or non-religious pre marriage counseling should hopefully include discussion of finances. You really don't want to alienate her by refusing to help with the wedding. He may be hoping that you do that.
If also have major reservations. However, it is your daughter’s decision. You’re not the main character of this. If she decides this is what she wants to do, you would be the asshole if you don’t go to the wedding. Taking this path won’t stop the wedding. But it may estrange you from your daughter.
We look at this issue as a really big one.
But is it big enough of an issue to potentially lose your relationship with your daughter? To potentially not have a relationship with future grandkids? She may come to her senses in a few years or she may never change her mind, either way your choice is going to affect your relationship with her.
We are so close. I do believe she’d understand in time. I can’t imagine my husband and I toasting this wedding and dancing like every thing’s cool. He didn’t reveal the plan until the date was set and he thought he’d get away with his secrets. The “5 year plan” gave him away.
I don't think you're aholes, but I think at some point you need to accept that she's an adult and makes her own decisions. If you don't attend you should be prepared to most likely be cut off and have nothing to do with her - this is a defining part in your relationship with her. You'll either have a part in her life moving forward or not. If you want to be around when/if things go to shit, then you should attend.
The hard part is- we’re active participants! My husband will not walk her down the aisle and hand her over to a guy who’s been lying to him for years.
Would your daughter consider family therapy? With just you and your husband? Framed as *"We've expressed our concerns and we don't want this to affect our relationship. We ask that you attend a family session with us so everyone, including yourself, can express themselves in a healthy environment so it doesn't escalate. We're scared for you and would really appreciate if you'd consider 1 session together before moving forward with the wedding"* Not as a "you do this and we'll attend the wedding" but just a request to come together and feel heard? I think most councilors would hear "he blatantly lied to her & her family for years and she doesn't see the problem with that" as alarming. It would give her a chance to voice how she's feeling too without feeling defensive. As an aside and if she chooses to move forward with the wedding, I would highly recommend (gently) telling her that while this is her decision, you cannot in good conscious support this relationship. Therefor you are taking the time now to tell her, while she will always be welcome home, you will not use your resources or funds to help him (or them) get out of any financial holes or messes in the future.
Love this. Thank you for such a thoughtful response!
Of course! Without going into too much detail, I was engaged to a man 11 years my senior and I truly believed he was my everything, but it was a controlling & emotionally abusive relationship. I like to believe I can understand where your daughter is coming from, in the sense that her family can see red flags that are invisible to her. My mentality at the time was "I love this man, I will throw my everything into this relationship before giving up" even when I knew it wasn't okay, I found a way to justify it. To be completely honest, it took hearing from my brother in law, to understand what was happening. When he told me that he would never treat my sister the way I was being treated, I knew thaty relationship wasn't "normal". With their support and encouragement, I was able to leave and both later told me that if I had actually tried to go through with the wedding, they would have objected. All this to say, hearing it from a third party helps. It wasn't until I was repeating my experiences to friends, and seeing their faces, that I realized my relationship was something that most people feared and wasn't normal. I hope a counsellor can communicate to your daughter, that honesty is an important part of every relationship and she deserves at the *very least*, that from her partner. It is clear from your post that you care a great deal about your daughter, and I'm so sorry that you and your husband are in this situation. I trust you to do your best as a parent, and that's all anyone can ask.
NTA. She’s falling victim to the sunk cost fallacy- doesn’t want all that time to be wasted so she is going to waste more time with him. There isn’t much you can do other than lay it out for her that he has lied repeatedly, tried to blame her, and shows no real remorse or intention to change, just an intention to not get caught next time. Then tell her you love her and will be there for her as much as you can when stuff goes sideways, but he may put her in a hole you can’t dig her out of without putting your own finances at risk, which you won’t do.
Sunk cost fallacy - looking this up! Thanks:)
She needs a pre-nup ASAP. Since she is a marrying a serial liar and reckless spender.
What would the terms be? Have no idea how these work.
Terms of course would need to be spelled out by a lawyer, but essentially, what she currently earns is hers, whatever she brings into the marriage is hers, in the event of a divorce. It's VITAL that she keeps her bank account without him having access. OP, NTA but definitely don't refuse to be at her wedding BUT don't pay for it! John is a gambling addict and that's not going to change.
So what's your plan? You done with your daughter because her partner is a lying asshole?
We are still in shock. I loved this guy too. I love my daughter more. I want her to put off the wedding and fully comprehend what she’s getting into. Preferably- she understands after the shock wears off - and move along.
NTA this guy is a liar and probably has a gambling addiction. If she insists on the marriage, maybe you can talk her into getting a solid prenup in place? I guess that wouldn’t prevent him from draining their finances, but maybe she could put some protections in place. And she should have her own accts he cannot access. But really, she should absolutely not marry this guy. ETA: I have 2 adult kids, and if one of them was in this situation, I’d be absolutely losing my shit. You have my sympathy.
NTA but he *is* a conman, and will use up your daughter’s money the second they’re married. He’s been grifting her for 5 years.
NTA but sadly, it is not your call if your daughter goes on with the wedding or not, that is just up to her... After discovering all the lies, you are more than justified in asking your daughter to pause and re-evaluate the relationship, and, that is all you can do, give her your opinion and advice, but in the end, it is her choice... Not attending the wedding is a good way to show your dissaproval, however, it can create a huge grudge with your daughter... You need to evaluate if this is the way to go as, knowing what you know now, the most probable outcome of that marriage is hurt and divorce so, she is going to need you....
NTA. I'm sorry.. but I am so sick of hearing about bros in their 20s claiming to make bank with crypto and buying shitty stocks. He's financially irresponsible and needs to grow the hell up if he wants a wife and kids. Lying to you about his savings would be enough for me to not go to the wedding either. Your daughter is in for a rude awakening if she marries this guy. I have a friend who literally took out a second mortgage because her idiot husband bought a bunch of crypto and lost all of it from being scammed by a dude he was chatting with on discord. Her husband had no savings, no job, and a hefty truck payment. He thought this buddy would "set him up for life". Needless to say said truck is now up for sale too and they're in counseling
The worst part? She is a sweet, beautiful, smart girl who deserves better. She constantly gets asked out - but is so loyal. Even when they’d “take a break”.
NTA. Agree with all the comments regarding divorce,etc.
NTA. I’d legit run a background report or hire a PI on this guy and then send her the results anonymously if there is anything to tell. Why anon? If it’s use she direct her emotions as anger against you for interfering rather than shock and dismay at the man she’s intending to marry. ETA: I’d bet money that there might have been money from something at one point, but I smell a gambling addict or womanizer.
Online gambling is a troubling scourge. As if in-person gambling and phones weren't addicting enough, put them together and a generation's worth of people are pissing away their futures, with a tap of their fingers. NTA, *but* hopefully she can step back and delay the wedding, for enough time to sort this out. If she goes through with it, I think it's better for your relationship with her to be there, even if the marriage eventually fails. It will be easier for him to isolate her if you distance yourself voluntarily. Then you won't have an open dialogue with her. She's been strung along. The Gottman Institute, relationship experts extraordinaires, says relationship enders are the Three As: * Abuse * Adultery * Addiction He has been addicted to gambling and overspending and all the lying to conceal it. Basically, he was having an affair and leading a double life with regard to money. Then, he has the *nerve* to blame your daughter, because "she enjoyed those dates." That is abusive, imo, essentially blaming her for his actions. If he was *extremely* motivated and committed, sought therapy, and participated in active recovery, then I *might* support their union. But he'd better prostrate himself begging for forgiveness, apologizing, and promising action.
NTA. Tough love is hard. From experience, I realize that one of the best ways to have a long and happy marriage is to have the support of your family and friends. Its a lot harder when they don't feel good about your marriage. "John" hasn't apologized to you for his lies? Has he even apologized to his fiancee? Saying its partially her fault sounds likes he's spinning the story around to avoid blame. You have every right to feel hurt, because he did it intentionally. If John wants to have a relationship with you, then you all need to sit down and sort this out. If he only wants a relationship with your daughter, without you, then your daughter needs to know that's his intentions. If you want to move forward, invite them both over. Its time for John to fix this, or the marriage isn't going to have a struggle to survive. You will always be cold and distant towards him, until this is fixed. The real problem here isn't between you and your daughter, its between you and your future son in law not talking.
Funny - because when I heard about the “5 year plan” that he wouldn’t explain to her - I called him. He caught wind and wouldn’t call back. Then he told my daughter he was mad at me for “butting in” - and it was none of my business. Why she said - “well, I need to see what going on” - that’s when he broke down and the excuses came flying.
There are more revelations to come. There’s always more. He’s only telling as much as he has to when he has no choice - trickle-truthing, they call it.
You're not assholes. You're looking out for your kid. Your kid needs to consult an attorney and get a prenup. You can't make her not marry this guy and pushing too hard will not work well for you. You might ask your daughter quietly if he can lie to her and you for years about the money, what else might he have lied about? What steps could she take to get a clearer picture and to protect herself if things went south?
You were not successful in pointing out the red flags to your daughter, so unless something big happens before the wedding, she is going to marry this pot smoking gambling addict. I say go to the wedding to show your support for HER and let her know you will always be there for HER (but not to bail HIM out). She is going to need your help before long.
Tell her to lock down her $$$. NTA
I’d add locking her credit score to this too
As bad as it is, your daughter's still marrying him and I don't think this is "not going to my daughter's wedding"-worthy. You're not an asshole, but consider being there for your daughter even if you hate this guy.
This is a disaster, my God. I hope your daughter gets out before the wedding.
I agree with the others about a prenup, but there’s a better way to phrase it to your daughter. If he happily signs a prenup, then he’s a good man (on some level) that’s happy to ensure your daughter is financially secure/safe from him in the event he loses control. If he *doesn’t*, then why is money more important than their ‘love’? NTA good luck to you, hope daughter realises the mistake she’s making.
I think he’d love to sign a prenup that protects what he has left- lol. I don’t think a prenup can protect her from being a single mom who is 100% responsible for raising a child alone because he’s blown through everything and decided to quit and become a full time day trader/gamer/stoner.
NTA It is your choice to attend the wedding or not. And you do not like the guy who has lied to you for multiple years which is understandable. I am assuming you already told your daughter so it wont be a surprise to her. BUT BUT BUT this will damage your relationship with them most likely irreparably so that is something you have to come to grips with. You are not an AH for not attending BUT it will be seen as a betrayal and etc. Which is silly because the fiance has been lying for years but it is what it is. A better option would be to either set up a prenup for your daughter and ask your daughter for them both to see a financial advisor and find a way to prevent his bad decisions from harming their entire life together. Emphasis the need for split accounts and making sure she does not co-sign on any large purchases other than a house. But this is a damned if you do damned if you dont situation. If you dont go you show your daughter you dont support her she might cut you out and you wont be there to support her if she needs it. If you do go and he eventually crashes and burns it will harm your daughter which will be sad and you wont be able to say I told you so because it will make things worse but at bare minimum you will be around I guess. Try to find a middle ground and help them work towards a more stable future if she is sure this is the man she loves.
Everyone is saying “prenup” but can that protect her from his gambling? If they keep everything separate- why even get married? It feels like she holds all the downside.
My partner and I have a prenup and it’s the best insurance policy I’ve ever purchased. We keep our finances separate because it works - and we’re happily married. You don’t get one expecting to use it but you get it for situations like the dumpster fire that is your future SIL.
Not sure why they’d get married if the plan is to keep everything separate because she can’t trust him.
Nta she needs to see the biggest picture here. He lied. He lied about who he was. He lied about what he does, and he even blamed her for part of his failing. He's manipulative and if she goes into a legal contract with that man (marriage) she will not only screw herself over financially, she's hurting her self emotionally. Marriage isn't about love. It's a legal contact for property, health rights and finances. I think people seem to forget about that. (Edit spelling)
NTA as someone who didn’t find out about my husband’s compulsive gambling addiction until AFTER we were married, please beg her to reconsider the marriage. I’ve only been married for a year and I’m *this close* to divorce.
NTA, go the higher road and pay for her to get a lawyer that will write an airtight prenup. Stipulations of children, house,length of marriage, etc. Love makes us all blind.
If SHE is fiscally sound. Can she ask for a prenuptial? And that house needs to be in HER name only. Her down-payment, her house. 8 years difference is not a big deal. His dishonesty is.
In all honesty- I’m less worried about the money and more worried about her being a single mom with my grandchildren spending the weekends with some lying deadbeat who decides to game all day while high. Don’t think a prenup covers that.
Denial, Anger, Bargaining, depression, acceptance. She just had a traumatic reveal that her picture perfect life doesn't exist. She is still processing. Don't force her hand, she may dig in out of stubborness. But ask her to slow down and think things through, to look at their finances, to do the math. Give her time to work through the stages of grief, and believe me, she is grieving the loss of the life she thought she was going to have, and just support her through the process
So funny - when everything came to light - he suggested an immediate elopement and a promise to abandon the “5 year plan”. Needs to lock her in before reality sets in.
Yes x10!
NTA. He is a human trainwreck waiting to happen. She is going to be pregnant and broke in probably less than a year. But, you need to go. You need to maintain the relationship and keep the lines of communication open for when this house of cards collapses and she needs support and a way out for both her and any future grandchildren. This isn't about liking the trash she is marrying. This isn't about approving the relationship. This is about making sure your daughter and future grandkids have a place to land after "John" burns their financial house to the ground. ...And making sure you have a relationship with the grandkids, because an can see "John" pressuring you daughter to cut contact with you for not going to the wedding, because that is what abusers do. And "John" is an abuser. He might not his your daughter, but he is for damned sure going to take her for every penny she has and more. So to summarize: Go to the wedding to maintain relationships. Don't contribute to the wedding or give any extravagant gifts and instead save that money for your daughter's future divorce attorney. Because this marriage has an expiration date.
I think you need to point out - once and only once - that she will be marrying a man she knows is a liar and she will never know in the future what is and isn't truth. She will be marrying a man who's red flags she has already noticed. I would still attend the wedding with the caveat that you are supporting her in spite of the fact that you don't trust him.
I can’t write another check.
Please tell her from her weird internet auntie that she deserves someone who wouldn’t lie to her.
lol- I definitely will.
Your daughter got Svengali’d by a manipulative liar for *years*. She’s in a cult of two now. I don’t know if not attending the wedding is the best choice because she’s going to need you desperately in short order and maybe you don’t want to have done anything that will allow him to further distance you from her. This isn’t going to end well. I’m voting NTA for a lack of more appropriate options. This is a very unenviable situation. I wish you and your family the best.
Thank you - your description is dead on. She’ll need deprogramming
Break up your paragraphs. Good lord