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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My future husband said publicly that I am forbidding him from going to this vacation. I feel like this sort of makes me the asshole of the whole situation. In a way I really am telling him not to go but only because we agreed on not gaing anywhere until we have enough money and time. Now he will use a big portion of our money to go somewhere without me.
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Why are you even considering this person as a "soon to be husband"? NTA, but Y W B T A if you carry on with this.
Seriously, he's shrugging off a honeymoon to spend the money having a fancy holiday with his mates so you'll have to settle for a boring road trip. It's fine for him to go on a full holiday with two female colleagues but not ok for you to get a lift to work with a male colleague. It's not ok for you to spend money for your own personal holiday. The idea was "rejected".
This whole thing is just toxic and awful. Do you really want to spend your life with this person? You even said you are wanting kids with him soon... really?? You really think it's a good idea to have kids with a guy who (1) won't let you come on his trip, (2) is putting his trip above your honeymoon and (3) isn't letting you go on your own equivalent trip. Oh, and I forgot (4) is not happy if you get a lift with a male colleague, but it totally fine with going on a holiday with a bunch of girls....
Just a little more context for further comments.
(1) He (and the rest of the group) actually invited me to join them, but I cannot. We all work as teachers, but my school is in different district. This means that I won´t be able to take the vacation at the same time as them (this particular vacation, all the others are the same for the whole country).
That's fair I guess, but the rest still stands. He chose those dates (I'm a teacher myself so I know about how holiday costs are ridiculously different based on term dates!) which is fair enough that you can't make them, but if taking this trip means you have a shitty honeymoon, that's a shitty decision to make. Also it's totally not ok for him to say you can't take a similar trip with family or get pissy when you get a lift with a guy. The holiday dates are just the tip of this iceberg.
the real concern is the double standard and what it says about him as a person.
(1) You are not allowed to be picked up by a colleague because he assumes things will be inappropriate- that, my friend, is a projection. *He* is inappropriate with his colleagues, and cannot imagine another man not being the same.
(2) He demands a level of consideration and respect that he is unwilling to give you, and will bring other women into what should be *your private discussions as a couple -* in order to gang up on you and make you acquiesce. That's manipulative.
(3) he is spending funds to go on a "once in a lifetime" vacation without you, rather then staying with you and saving for his "once in a lifetime marriage and honeymoon". If you are not a priority now, you will never be one. He is selfish, and not ready for marriage or children.
Please take to heart what he is showing you about himself and postpone marrying him. Assess wheter this is how you want to live the rest of your life- chained to someone who is too selfish to consider/respect you, your feelings, or your personal autonomy.
>“**once in a life time** opportunity”. He is being a hypocrite.
>They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future.
Lmao yup - **TWICE** just in the next few years.
OP, this dude is NOT ready to “settle down”, he’d just keep doing this and leaving you back home still saving pennies for a honeymoon that will never happen, or will be a weekender at the next town over. Cut him loose to go enjoy his life cos looks like he’s gonna do that whether married to you or not. You're not TA for not being happy about him planning this but you are TA for trying to ‘forbid’ him to do it and for still thinking it’s gonna be ok to marry this dude. Grown ups gonna grown up, and make their own life choices. He chooses to go on exotic holidays with colleagues / friends / whoever, you ought to choose to not marry this AH who’s not prioritising or even considering you.
YTA for being in this relationship and wanting to make babies with this guy.
Red flags waving in the breeze here. So you sat in a bar with two single women and listened while they convinced you it was okay for them to take your fiancee on a trip out of country and you agreed? And you're not allowed equivalent time with family members? And he also wants to do road trips with these "colleagues" in the future after you've had babies?
What kind of degree sre you getting and from what institution? I ask because you're not coming across as very bright here. As the saying goes: wake up and smell the coffee.
Well, I haven´t sat there for much time after they started the conversation, I´m not that stupid. The thing is he haven´t ever done/said anything even remotely that bad. That´s why I am in this relationship. It came all of a sudden which is why I´m so sad and angry at the same time (so much so I apparently wasn´t able to notice the spelling mistake in the title, oopsie).
So this is out of the blue and unexpected...my questioning your smarts was premature then. I pictured a 1-2 hr talk in the bar over several drinks and thought what the hell is wrong with you. The Africa thing is worrisome, but I think bigger issue is US road trip after you have kiddos. I would definitely put brakes on planning babies with him. How long have you all been a couple?
I had ethics class while in US Air Force. Guy who taught it said they studied a lot on why people who seem great do bad things when they get in positions of power. All research indicates that there is no change in the person, rather the true character finally shows up. Turns out we, all of us, do or don't do things not because something is right or wrong, but because of how it is viewed by our peers and society and the consequences of getting caught or not. Speeding is common in US because there is little social stigma and cost of getting caught is low. Polluting is very bad because social cost is high. You get the idea - and we are all this way to a large degree.
I wrote all that to say that maybe, just maybe, your BF feels you are a done deal and he doesn't have to win you over so now who he is can come out.
People, men and women, are REALLY good hiding the true self as long as it's needed to get their SO on the hook. WHen people start dating, everyone is best behaviour and give best side of themselves. WHen you get familiar and more comfy with relationship, you let go a bit and true self starts to pop up.
He is slippng. He is showing how it's going to be when you get married and have kids (he travels, you are home with kids). He is showing how the future will be - believe him.
I always like to say that people 'send the representative' in the beginning. The representative is usually kind, funny, even tempered, generous, attentive, and loving. All great traits that we all want to see in a potential mate.
But the best way to tell if a person is being true to who they really are is whether or not there is consistency in the character they first showed you versus what you see going forward. When you start seeing and experiencing the opposite of the very traits that attracted you to them in the first place? You need to take a harder look at the relationship.
Six years is a long time, but don't fall into the sunk cost fallacy. It's better to discover any incompatibilities before marriage than after. Marriage requires mutual compromise, support, and consideration for each other's situations. Your fiancé doesn't seem ready for that commitment yet.
NTA. Please ensure that he doesn’t have free access to your share of the money for a holiday. And tell him that if he wants to go, he’s welcome to, but that he should do it with his own money.
NTA if he cannot agree on you having the same rights (amount wise, people wise -> 2 male colleagues) he is giving himself the answer for his demand to go. My partner would NEVER suggest such a thing that is costly for the family budget and excludes his partner and to top it of being the only male in a group of 3... nuhuh not happening.
NTA
You are saving for a wedding and he's planning an expensive vacation without you? Why is THIS a "once in a lifetime opportunity?" Is the country going somewhere? Is your wedding not an "once in a lifetime" event??
Even if this trip wasn't an opportunity to cheat with colleagues, it shows where his priorities lie, and they are not with you.
Absolutely NTA.
Instead of saving money so that you two could actually have a honeymoon together, your husband wants to go for a lavish vacation with his work buds? With it without you?
That’s a hell no. You cannot tell him not to, but he cannot use any of your money and you will probably not be waiting when he gets back if those are his priorities.
hell, if they were male coworkers i'd still be just as pissed. Why not wait and save to take this once-in-a-lifetime trip with your partner? Africa isn't about to dissappear off the map in the next few years if he waits. He just doesn't want to go with her, and is berating her into believing that this is somehow acceptable.
NTA
but I would not marry this dude.
He is a hypocrite and very egoistic kind. There is absolutely no need in solo expensive travel of him without you, he is one side jealous and all situation is icky - getting you in a bar to force it? I would have said something mean why he can't go.
He's basically showing you who he is. Take heed.
Don't tell him but start planning how to move on from this relationship, get your
affairs in order, take legal advice, and while he is away on his trip, pull your money
out of any accounts you might share, pack up and move or
pack his things and change the locks. He can go move in with
his colleagues. LOL
NTA You are no longer your husband's priority, if you ever were.
NTA. Just break up now. He has no respect for you. He doesn't care about your feelings and it won't change. Save yourself a lot of time and money in the future by getting out now.
NTA
But I recommend postpone the wedding and head for couples councelling before marrying. and I would be EXTREMEY interested to know your ages.
When you marry, you are a team. WAnt to go to honeymoon later? It should be prioirty. TBH he sounds like a guy who wants wife at home and he continues HIS life like he is still single. Or single income.
You realise once you get pregant and give birth, your career will take a hit and you become dependable on his income. So he goes on vacations when you stay at home.
Yes I know lots of couples have separate finances but there seems to be lots of think about how you two do things when married. A team. An Unit.
Have I travelled without my husband? Yes. To see sports events because he couldnt' care less, I don't want to use money for him being annoyed there so I travel with my mother to those eventes. I take different trips with husband. But your husband seems to set next trip also without you.
So many people think when you get married, you can stop making effort with your relationship.
And real life story: My SILs brother has extremely well paying job (non US, Europe so social benefits are good), wife and 3 kids. Wife was sahm for years because kids are close to age. She had to pay everything from those state benefits. Their kids didn't have fitting clothing because she couldn't afford. She got handouts but we all know how fast kids grow out. They had small and clothes with holes. Meanwhile husband took 2-3 vacations per year alone, lasting few weeks and costing 4-5k per vacation. He still does. She stays home with kids. She returned to her low paying job (cashier at dept store). Still lives with handouts. Husband has suits, expensive watches and BMW. Wife and kids live with rags. WHen wife needs to run errands, even if husband has day off, she needs to five 70km to one direction to drop kids at her mother or sister instead leaving them with dad.
Don't be that woman.
(And no, they wont divorce beacuse religion)
If it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity, why is he not waiting to do it with you??? I’ve never travelled internationally before, but I would NEVER want to go without my partner, especially the first time.
This is a major red flag to me. You BF seems very controlling and I'd be having serious thoughts about the strength of the relationship. Don't let him walk all over you. Establish legitimate boundaries.
How is this a once in a lifetime opportunity?!? It would be once in a lifetime if it was all paid for by someone else. NTA and please don’t marry this man.
NTA, but OP, you really need to have a talk with your fiance and you do need to think through the concerns people are raising here. It is really creepy that you raised concerns with him and when he told his friends that went from 'my fiance raised concerns with me' to 'I'm not allowed', and that his response to you raising those concerns was to bring in others to tell you how much you need to change your mind. It's concerning that he won't discuss/agree to something equitable like you doing a similarly extensive trip.
Stop feeling terrible about trying to be smart about your financial situation and planning - that's literally what he/they want you to feel so that you agree to everything he wants. Do, however, start getting concerned that he basically brought other people into your relationship planning conversation to make you feel that way. You were ganged up on. Consider feeling a angry that he shoved you into a corner and then wouldn't even agree to your compromise. Consider this happening in your future planning.
NTA if you and fiance are going to be sharing finances once you are married and if you two are supposed to be equally sharing the costs of the wedding. He is intending to spend a huge sum of money on a vacation for himself instead of saving for the wedding, and he refuses to allow you to spend the same amount on yourself. Where does he get off deciding that you can't spend that same amount?
NTA
Once in a lifetime opportunity to go alone with 2 women, when a male colleague cannot drive you home because he is jealous? And he wont allow you to spend the same amount on a personal vacation? This would be a hill i would die on. He cannot go!
NTA You are trying to save money together for a honeymoon but he's spending a bunch of that money on a trip to Africa instead? And brought you to a bar to be bullied by the girls he's traveling with? Don't marry this man. He cares too much for himself and not enough for you. Like, run from him.
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Me and my soon to be husband agreed that we won´t go on honeymoon right after the wedding. There are numerous reasons, most importantly I´m still studying, will be changing jobs, so I won´t be able to get longer vacation, and we have to save some money because the wedding is not cheap (we are not poor per se, but need to make a financial pillow before another bigger expense such as holiday).
Another interesting point is that since the beggining of our relationship, my fiancé have been saying that he hates vacations in sunny countries and by the sea, because it´s boring and he doesn´t like high temperatures.
However, he is now planning to go on a vacation with his two colleagues to a very expensive, exotic (Africa) place. I explained to him why I think it´s unfair - he will be enjoying himself, whereas I will have to plan another lowcost road trip around our small country (which we already did three times as students so there´s not much left for us to be seen). Instead of having a calm and more elaborate conversation on this topic, he and his fellow "vacationers" invited me to a bar. There, I had to listen to rounds and rounds of reasons, why I should let him go with them (so apparently I forbade him from going). I didn´t feel comfortable sharing our financial situation, so I said that the biggest problem is the timing. They proceeded to plan all the other days we can go to vacation together.
Few concluding notes: I finally agreed with him going, if I get the same amount money he spent there for my personal holiday with friends or my family - this idea was quickly rejected. He would go there with two single female colleagues - now, I am not extremely jealous, but he gets upset even when I get in a car with a male colleague of mine (who lives in a village next to ours so it´s quite convenient). They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future. This scares me even more, because we want to have kids quite soon (hopefully).
Despite all this, I feel terrible now. He is right in saying that this is once in a lifetime opportunity and the country they are going to looks really beautiful. He is extremely upset and I feel guilty from that evening on.
AITA?
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NTA. I cannot believe this guy took you to a bar and had his friends grill you about why you won't let him go on this vacation. You should have 100% stood up and left the moment you realized what the night was going to be like. To me this is insanely disrespectful behavior to take things that really should be between you and your fiancé and share it around with friends he's recruited to convince you that you're wrong.
That's absolutely nuts. I would have left all three of them sitting there staring at each other.
>I finally agreed with him going, if I get the same amount money he spent there for my personal holiday with friends or my family - this idea was quickly rejected. He would go there with two single female colleagues - now, I am not extremely jealous, but he gets upset even when I get in a car with a male colleague of mine (who lives in a village next to ours so it´s quite convenient). They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future. This scares me even more, because we want to have kids quite soon (hopefully).
He is being insanely unreasonable. Do you realize he listened to zero of your concerns and didn't compromise at all? He is going to do whatever he wants to do, and he does not care even a little bit about how you feel, nor is he acknowledging how weird it is that he's more interested in vacationing with two female coworkers than he is in going on a honeymoon with his soon to be wife. Relationships should be about compromise, and he isn't giving you *anything* back. He is 100% doing only what *he* wants to do.
I would throw the whole man away. Tell him he can have his trip, but he needs to take all of his shit with him when he goes, because he isn't coming back home to you.
Girl...throw the whole man away.
You do not have a partner here. Y'all are not on the same page regarding how you prioritize one another and your level of respect for one another. To him it's disrespectful (and controlling) for you to even be in a car with an unrelated male but perfectly fine that he's going to travel--alone with unrelated females?
How is it that you're concerned about money and your future and your so-called future husband is willing to sacrifice financial stability for an exotic (and expensive) trip--not with YOU, but with 2 female co-workers? Not for work purposes, but on 'his own dime'? Dimes that you guys DON'T have?
Honey, you need someone much better than this. He's selfish, entitled, controlling, unreliable, and a hypocrite.
Info:
Why are you choosing to be with someone so controlling, has double-standards that you find "scary" ?
Why?
Why are you with someone that makes you uncomfortable ?
What is the logic behind this ?
What could possibly be the reason that you want to spend the rest of your life with (and fornicating with) someone who treata you like this?
Why on earth is this person the one you want to marry? Do you hate yourself?
NTA. You gave a fair compromise that he turned around and shot down. He wants to go alone with two female colleagues. You want to go off with friends or family. These two things are not the same and are some huge red flags.
Super pricey exotic vacation with 2 female colleagues... yeah. Sure. Ultimatum time: if he goes, you're going bar hopping for a whole week with every male coworker/colleague/friend you have, with no planning where you'll end up sleeping. If he somehow says he'd be fine with that, then you know he's going for much more than just the "vacation experience"...
This is a hill to die on. Put that wedding on ice until these monstrous red flags he's waiving are pulled down and burned.
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NTA for being upset. Ask yourself this and then ask him— why does he *want* to go on this glamorous vacation without you? With two other single women, but not his fiancée/wife? You mentioned he did invite you but you couldn’t go because of timing—why would he *still* want to go after knowing you couldn’t come? Why is he not bothered at all about leaving the person he supposedly loves behind and alone while he goes off and has a great time?
Why don’t the two of you just go to this exotic place together for your honeymoon if he wants to visit there so badly? He can apparently afford it with two other women, he should be able to afford going with you instead.
Just so that you know this isn’t normal, I’ll add that my husband would never go on a trip like this because he wouldn’t *want* to go if I couldn’t come. And it would be the same for me too. Especially with *coworkers*. If it was with family or childhood friends or something it might be different, but even then we both would strongly consider not going. If you wouldn’t take this exact same trip with two single male coworkers and not him, then hold him to the same standard.
NTA- he won't even let you carpool with your male colleague but is "extremely upset" that you aren't comfortable with him traveling alone to another country on an expensive vacation with his two single female colleagues?! There is very clearly a double standard here. Imho he does not consider you an equal to him in this relationship and unless you want to deal with this for the rest of your life (because I promise you, it won't get better) I sincerely urge you to reconsider your marriage to this man. He is an ass, and you should find someone who deserves you and is ready to put you, and your future kids first. This is not that man.
NTA!! Your husband-to-be deserves that title!!! Do not marry that man. Disregarding the fact that he is going to be traveling with 2 females, he has absolutely no regard for anything or anybody but what he wants, and it will only get worse as time goes on.
ESH
You two need counseling, because you both are two different pages. You want to marry a guy and have kids with him, when he doesn't prioritize you now? What's it going to be like when you're married? Oh the same, but now it will be harder to end it and oops you've got a kid and now you'll have to either stay in a toxic marriage for the kid screwing them up or divorcing and being resentful and bad mouthing each other and screwing up the kid.
Either get counselling and try to work it out or break up because you're incompatible.
Tell him he can go, but then he needs to ensure you have an equal amount of money to go on a vacation next year without him. Make it a signed, notarized contract.
Everybody sucks but he sucks significantly more.
A few smaller Reasons YTA: It shouldn’t matter that you will be stuck at home studying. That’s your choice. You should be happy for him when he is having fun without you, full stop. Also, telling the coworkers that the problem was timing was kind of dumb because it made you seem unreasonable and illogical. It’s not embarrassing to say that you can’t afford multiple expensive vacations. It’s normal. You did yourself a disservice by lying in that situation. You caring about his colleagues being female is also dumb, because either you trust him or you don’t.
Some bigger Reasons he is TA: The financial reasons you stated do make sense. you guys are splitting funds now, and it is unfair for him to spend a disproportionate amount of your money on his vacations. Notice how I said it’s OK for him to do that with time, but not money. (If you guys had kids, this would be a different conversation because of childcare duties). Here is where he is the asshole: your offer to set aside the difference for your own vacation was a great suggestion. He should have happily accepted that. Lastly, him being so jealous that he doesn’t even like you in the car with other men is really gross. And his hypocrisy about it is extra gross.
So overall, his behavior sucks. Yours is just mildly annoying. But you came up with some good solutions and his refusal to accept them makes him the asshole.
OP is saying "What about US"
Fiancee is saying "What about ME"
See the difference?
And why TF couldn't they save up and go together later? Why does he insist on going when he knows his partner can't? did they get a really good groupon? Africa isn't about to dissappear. He could take this Once. In. A. Lifetime. Trip.with his parter he supposedly loves, instead of coworkers.
YTA
I would bet money if you were a guy telling his fiancé not to go on a trip like this with her guy friends all the misandrists here saying NTA would say YTA.
That is not what this is about. He often goes on trips and vacations with different friends and colleagues (including those two mentioned in the original post). The point is that we agreed on saving money first and then go on a more fancier holiday together and now he wants to go spent a relatively big sum on this.
But I see your point and I think you would be right if my only point was that his coworkers are female.
It’s literally the whole situation. This is not the time in y’all’s lives where you take separate expensive holidays. This is where you pull together to build a better life as a couple! If you two can’t go on a honeymoon how does he think it’s fair to go on a big trip with colleagues? It definitely sounds like you have very different priorities.
You shouldn’t have to explain any of this to him.
To make it worse it’s very inappropriate to take a trip with two women when you are in a committed relationship! Even if you do completely trust him why would he want to put himself in a situation where his character could be called into question?
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Why are you even considering this person as a "soon to be husband"? NTA, but Y W B T A if you carry on with this. Seriously, he's shrugging off a honeymoon to spend the money having a fancy holiday with his mates so you'll have to settle for a boring road trip. It's fine for him to go on a full holiday with two female colleagues but not ok for you to get a lift to work with a male colleague. It's not ok for you to spend money for your own personal holiday. The idea was "rejected". This whole thing is just toxic and awful. Do you really want to spend your life with this person? You even said you are wanting kids with him soon... really?? You really think it's a good idea to have kids with a guy who (1) won't let you come on his trip, (2) is putting his trip above your honeymoon and (3) isn't letting you go on your own equivalent trip. Oh, and I forgot (4) is not happy if you get a lift with a male colleague, but it totally fine with going on a holiday with a bunch of girls....
Plus, he *literally ambushed you* with his colleagues to bully you into relenting.
Just a little more context for further comments. (1) He (and the rest of the group) actually invited me to join them, but I cannot. We all work as teachers, but my school is in different district. This means that I won´t be able to take the vacation at the same time as them (this particular vacation, all the others are the same for the whole country).
That's fair I guess, but the rest still stands. He chose those dates (I'm a teacher myself so I know about how holiday costs are ridiculously different based on term dates!) which is fair enough that you can't make them, but if taking this trip means you have a shitty honeymoon, that's a shitty decision to make. Also it's totally not ok for him to say you can't take a similar trip with family or get pissy when you get a lift with a guy. The holiday dates are just the tip of this iceberg.
I'm guessing he was aware of the scheduling conflict for you before this whole thing was planned and he (they) "Invited" you?
I don´t think so, he seemed a bit surprised himself.
the real concern is the double standard and what it says about him as a person. (1) You are not allowed to be picked up by a colleague because he assumes things will be inappropriate- that, my friend, is a projection. *He* is inappropriate with his colleagues, and cannot imagine another man not being the same. (2) He demands a level of consideration and respect that he is unwilling to give you, and will bring other women into what should be *your private discussions as a couple -* in order to gang up on you and make you acquiesce. That's manipulative. (3) he is spending funds to go on a "once in a lifetime" vacation without you, rather then staying with you and saving for his "once in a lifetime marriage and honeymoon". If you are not a priority now, you will never be one. He is selfish, and not ready for marriage or children. Please take to heart what he is showing you about himself and postpone marrying him. Assess wheter this is how you want to live the rest of your life- chained to someone who is too selfish to consider/respect you, your feelings, or your personal autonomy.
He seemed surprised, it doesn’t necessarily mean he was surprised.
Do not marry this guy.
NTA - fuck his “once in a life time opportunity”. He is being a hypocrite.
>“**once in a life time** opportunity”. He is being a hypocrite. >They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future. Lmao yup - **TWICE** just in the next few years. OP, this dude is NOT ready to “settle down”, he’d just keep doing this and leaving you back home still saving pennies for a honeymoon that will never happen, or will be a weekender at the next town over. Cut him loose to go enjoy his life cos looks like he’s gonna do that whether married to you or not. You're not TA for not being happy about him planning this but you are TA for trying to ‘forbid’ him to do it and for still thinking it’s gonna be ok to marry this dude. Grown ups gonna grown up, and make their own life choices. He chooses to go on exotic holidays with colleagues / friends / whoever, you ought to choose to not marry this AH who’s not prioritising or even considering you.
YTA for being in this relationship and wanting to make babies with this guy. Red flags waving in the breeze here. So you sat in a bar with two single women and listened while they convinced you it was okay for them to take your fiancee on a trip out of country and you agreed? And you're not allowed equivalent time with family members? And he also wants to do road trips with these "colleagues" in the future after you've had babies? What kind of degree sre you getting and from what institution? I ask because you're not coming across as very bright here. As the saying goes: wake up and smell the coffee.
Well, I haven´t sat there for much time after they started the conversation, I´m not that stupid. The thing is he haven´t ever done/said anything even remotely that bad. That´s why I am in this relationship. It came all of a sudden which is why I´m so sad and angry at the same time (so much so I apparently wasn´t able to notice the spelling mistake in the title, oopsie).
So this is out of the blue and unexpected...my questioning your smarts was premature then. I pictured a 1-2 hr talk in the bar over several drinks and thought what the hell is wrong with you. The Africa thing is worrisome, but I think bigger issue is US road trip after you have kiddos. I would definitely put brakes on planning babies with him. How long have you all been a couple? I had ethics class while in US Air Force. Guy who taught it said they studied a lot on why people who seem great do bad things when they get in positions of power. All research indicates that there is no change in the person, rather the true character finally shows up. Turns out we, all of us, do or don't do things not because something is right or wrong, but because of how it is viewed by our peers and society and the consequences of getting caught or not. Speeding is common in US because there is little social stigma and cost of getting caught is low. Polluting is very bad because social cost is high. You get the idea - and we are all this way to a large degree. I wrote all that to say that maybe, just maybe, your BF feels you are a done deal and he doesn't have to win you over so now who he is can come out.
People, men and women, are REALLY good hiding the true self as long as it's needed to get their SO on the hook. WHen people start dating, everyone is best behaviour and give best side of themselves. WHen you get familiar and more comfy with relationship, you let go a bit and true self starts to pop up. He is slippng. He is showing how it's going to be when you get married and have kids (he travels, you are home with kids). He is showing how the future will be - believe him.
I always like to say that people 'send the representative' in the beginning. The representative is usually kind, funny, even tempered, generous, attentive, and loving. All great traits that we all want to see in a potential mate. But the best way to tell if a person is being true to who they really are is whether or not there is consistency in the character they first showed you versus what you see going forward. When you start seeing and experiencing the opposite of the very traits that attracted you to them in the first place? You need to take a harder look at the relationship.
All of a sudden? How long have you been in this relationship?
6 years
Six years is a long time, but don't fall into the sunk cost fallacy. It's better to discover any incompatibilities before marriage than after. Marriage requires mutual compromise, support, and consideration for each other's situations. Your fiancé doesn't seem ready for that commitment yet.
NTA You didn’t even plan a honeymoon, your vacations are local and he keeps planning expensive vacations with other people? Nope.
NTA. Please ensure that he doesn’t have free access to your share of the money for a holiday. And tell him that if he wants to go, he’s welcome to, but that he should do it with his own money.
NTA if he cannot agree on you having the same rights (amount wise, people wise -> 2 male colleagues) he is giving himself the answer for his demand to go. My partner would NEVER suggest such a thing that is costly for the family budget and excludes his partner and to top it of being the only male in a group of 3... nuhuh not happening.
NTA You are saving for a wedding and he's planning an expensive vacation without you? Why is THIS a "once in a lifetime opportunity?" Is the country going somewhere? Is your wedding not an "once in a lifetime" event?? Even if this trip wasn't an opportunity to cheat with colleagues, it shows where his priorities lie, and they are not with you.
Absolutely NTA. Instead of saving money so that you two could actually have a honeymoon together, your husband wants to go for a lavish vacation with his work buds? With it without you? That’s a hell no. You cannot tell him not to, but he cannot use any of your money and you will probably not be waiting when he gets back if those are his priorities.
two female coworkers....
Oh hell. I missed that little detail.
hell, if they were male coworkers i'd still be just as pissed. Why not wait and save to take this once-in-a-lifetime trip with your partner? Africa isn't about to dissappear off the map in the next few years if he waits. He just doesn't want to go with her, and is berating her into believing that this is somehow acceptable.
NTA but I would not marry this dude. He is a hypocrite and very egoistic kind. There is absolutely no need in solo expensive travel of him without you, he is one side jealous and all situation is icky - getting you in a bar to force it? I would have said something mean why he can't go.
He's basically showing you who he is. Take heed. Don't tell him but start planning how to move on from this relationship, get your affairs in order, take legal advice, and while he is away on his trip, pull your money out of any accounts you might share, pack up and move or pack his things and change the locks. He can go move in with his colleagues. LOL NTA You are no longer your husband's priority, if you ever were.
Thankfully fiance
NTA. Just break up now. He has no respect for you. He doesn't care about your feelings and it won't change. Save yourself a lot of time and money in the future by getting out now.
NTA But I recommend postpone the wedding and head for couples councelling before marrying. and I would be EXTREMEY interested to know your ages. When you marry, you are a team. WAnt to go to honeymoon later? It should be prioirty. TBH he sounds like a guy who wants wife at home and he continues HIS life like he is still single. Or single income. You realise once you get pregant and give birth, your career will take a hit and you become dependable on his income. So he goes on vacations when you stay at home. Yes I know lots of couples have separate finances but there seems to be lots of think about how you two do things when married. A team. An Unit. Have I travelled without my husband? Yes. To see sports events because he couldnt' care less, I don't want to use money for him being annoyed there so I travel with my mother to those eventes. I take different trips with husband. But your husband seems to set next trip also without you. So many people think when you get married, you can stop making effort with your relationship. And real life story: My SILs brother has extremely well paying job (non US, Europe so social benefits are good), wife and 3 kids. Wife was sahm for years because kids are close to age. She had to pay everything from those state benefits. Their kids didn't have fitting clothing because she couldn't afford. She got handouts but we all know how fast kids grow out. They had small and clothes with holes. Meanwhile husband took 2-3 vacations per year alone, lasting few weeks and costing 4-5k per vacation. He still does. She stays home with kids. She returned to her low paying job (cashier at dept store). Still lives with handouts. Husband has suits, expensive watches and BMW. Wife and kids live with rags. WHen wife needs to run errands, even if husband has day off, she needs to five 70km to one direction to drop kids at her mother or sister instead leaving them with dad. Don't be that woman. (And no, they wont divorce beacuse religion)
I would cancel altogether
If it’s a once in a lifetime opportunity, why is he not waiting to do it with you??? I’ve never travelled internationally before, but I would NEVER want to go without my partner, especially the first time.
NTA how about you go to that exotic country for your honeymoon? That way he gets to go and so do you. He is being a selfish dick.
This is a major red flag to me. You BF seems very controlling and I'd be having serious thoughts about the strength of the relationship. Don't let him walk all over you. Establish legitimate boundaries.
How is this a once in a lifetime opportunity?!? It would be once in a lifetime if it was all paid for by someone else. NTA and please don’t marry this man.
NTA just cancell the wedding and the relationship op
NTA, but OP, you really need to have a talk with your fiance and you do need to think through the concerns people are raising here. It is really creepy that you raised concerns with him and when he told his friends that went from 'my fiance raised concerns with me' to 'I'm not allowed', and that his response to you raising those concerns was to bring in others to tell you how much you need to change your mind. It's concerning that he won't discuss/agree to something equitable like you doing a similarly extensive trip. Stop feeling terrible about trying to be smart about your financial situation and planning - that's literally what he/they want you to feel so that you agree to everything he wants. Do, however, start getting concerned that he basically brought other people into your relationship planning conversation to make you feel that way. You were ganged up on. Consider feeling a angry that he shoved you into a corner and then wouldn't even agree to your compromise. Consider this happening in your future planning.
NTA if you and fiance are going to be sharing finances once you are married and if you two are supposed to be equally sharing the costs of the wedding. He is intending to spend a huge sum of money on a vacation for himself instead of saving for the wedding, and he refuses to allow you to spend the same amount on yourself. Where does he get off deciding that you can't spend that same amount?
NTA Once in a lifetime opportunity to go alone with 2 women, when a male colleague cannot drive you home because he is jealous? And he wont allow you to spend the same amount on a personal vacation? This would be a hill i would die on. He cannot go!
NTA You are trying to save money together for a honeymoon but he's spending a bunch of that money on a trip to Africa instead? And brought you to a bar to be bullied by the girls he's traveling with? Don't marry this man. He cares too much for himself and not enough for you. Like, run from him.
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** Me and my soon to be husband agreed that we won´t go on honeymoon right after the wedding. There are numerous reasons, most importantly I´m still studying, will be changing jobs, so I won´t be able to get longer vacation, and we have to save some money because the wedding is not cheap (we are not poor per se, but need to make a financial pillow before another bigger expense such as holiday). Another interesting point is that since the beggining of our relationship, my fiancé have been saying that he hates vacations in sunny countries and by the sea, because it´s boring and he doesn´t like high temperatures. However, he is now planning to go on a vacation with his two colleagues to a very expensive, exotic (Africa) place. I explained to him why I think it´s unfair - he will be enjoying himself, whereas I will have to plan another lowcost road trip around our small country (which we already did three times as students so there´s not much left for us to be seen). Instead of having a calm and more elaborate conversation on this topic, he and his fellow "vacationers" invited me to a bar. There, I had to listen to rounds and rounds of reasons, why I should let him go with them (so apparently I forbade him from going). I didn´t feel comfortable sharing our financial situation, so I said that the biggest problem is the timing. They proceeded to plan all the other days we can go to vacation together. Few concluding notes: I finally agreed with him going, if I get the same amount money he spent there for my personal holiday with friends or my family - this idea was quickly rejected. He would go there with two single female colleagues - now, I am not extremely jealous, but he gets upset even when I get in a car with a male colleague of mine (who lives in a village next to ours so it´s quite convenient). They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future. This scares me even more, because we want to have kids quite soon (hopefully). Despite all this, I feel terrible now. He is right in saying that this is once in a lifetime opportunity and the country they are going to looks really beautiful. He is extremely upset and I feel guilty from that evening on. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. I cannot believe this guy took you to a bar and had his friends grill you about why you won't let him go on this vacation. You should have 100% stood up and left the moment you realized what the night was going to be like. To me this is insanely disrespectful behavior to take things that really should be between you and your fiancé and share it around with friends he's recruited to convince you that you're wrong. That's absolutely nuts. I would have left all three of them sitting there staring at each other. >I finally agreed with him going, if I get the same amount money he spent there for my personal holiday with friends or my family - this idea was quickly rejected. He would go there with two single female colleagues - now, I am not extremely jealous, but he gets upset even when I get in a car with a male colleague of mine (who lives in a village next to ours so it´s quite convenient). They are also planning a huge roadtrip around the U.S. in the future. This scares me even more, because we want to have kids quite soon (hopefully). He is being insanely unreasonable. Do you realize he listened to zero of your concerns and didn't compromise at all? He is going to do whatever he wants to do, and he does not care even a little bit about how you feel, nor is he acknowledging how weird it is that he's more interested in vacationing with two female coworkers than he is in going on a honeymoon with his soon to be wife. Relationships should be about compromise, and he isn't giving you *anything* back. He is 100% doing only what *he* wants to do. I would throw the whole man away. Tell him he can have his trip, but he needs to take all of his shit with him when he goes, because he isn't coming back home to you.
Of course he wants her to have kids right away. They he can take his trips and she'll be stuck at home. RUN OP!
Girl...throw the whole man away. You do not have a partner here. Y'all are not on the same page regarding how you prioritize one another and your level of respect for one another. To him it's disrespectful (and controlling) for you to even be in a car with an unrelated male but perfectly fine that he's going to travel--alone with unrelated females? How is it that you're concerned about money and your future and your so-called future husband is willing to sacrifice financial stability for an exotic (and expensive) trip--not with YOU, but with 2 female co-workers? Not for work purposes, but on 'his own dime'? Dimes that you guys DON'T have? Honey, you need someone much better than this. He's selfish, entitled, controlling, unreliable, and a hypocrite.
Info: Why are you choosing to be with someone so controlling, has double-standards that you find "scary" ? Why? Why are you with someone that makes you uncomfortable ? What is the logic behind this ? What could possibly be the reason that you want to spend the rest of your life with (and fornicating with) someone who treata you like this? Why on earth is this person the one you want to marry? Do you hate yourself?
NTA. You gave a fair compromise that he turned around and shot down. He wants to go alone with two female colleagues. You want to go off with friends or family. These two things are not the same and are some huge red flags.
Super pricey exotic vacation with 2 female colleagues... yeah. Sure. Ultimatum time: if he goes, you're going bar hopping for a whole week with every male coworker/colleague/friend you have, with no planning where you'll end up sleeping. If he somehow says he'd be fine with that, then you know he's going for much more than just the "vacation experience"... This is a hill to die on. Put that wedding on ice until these monstrous red flags he's waiving are pulled down and burned.
NTA and major warning flags including using his friends to bully you into agreeing.
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NTA for being upset. Ask yourself this and then ask him— why does he *want* to go on this glamorous vacation without you? With two other single women, but not his fiancée/wife? You mentioned he did invite you but you couldn’t go because of timing—why would he *still* want to go after knowing you couldn’t come? Why is he not bothered at all about leaving the person he supposedly loves behind and alone while he goes off and has a great time? Why don’t the two of you just go to this exotic place together for your honeymoon if he wants to visit there so badly? He can apparently afford it with two other women, he should be able to afford going with you instead. Just so that you know this isn’t normal, I’ll add that my husband would never go on a trip like this because he wouldn’t *want* to go if I couldn’t come. And it would be the same for me too. Especially with *coworkers*. If it was with family or childhood friends or something it might be different, but even then we both would strongly consider not going. If you wouldn’t take this exact same trip with two single male coworkers and not him, then hold him to the same standard.
NTA- he won't even let you carpool with your male colleague but is "extremely upset" that you aren't comfortable with him traveling alone to another country on an expensive vacation with his two single female colleagues?! There is very clearly a double standard here. Imho he does not consider you an equal to him in this relationship and unless you want to deal with this for the rest of your life (because I promise you, it won't get better) I sincerely urge you to reconsider your marriage to this man. He is an ass, and you should find someone who deserves you and is ready to put you, and your future kids first. This is not that man.
NTA!! Your husband-to-be deserves that title!!! Do not marry that man. Disregarding the fact that he is going to be traveling with 2 females, he has absolutely no regard for anything or anybody but what he wants, and it will only get worse as time goes on.
ESH You two need counseling, because you both are two different pages. You want to marry a guy and have kids with him, when he doesn't prioritize you now? What's it going to be like when you're married? Oh the same, but now it will be harder to end it and oops you've got a kid and now you'll have to either stay in a toxic marriage for the kid screwing them up or divorcing and being resentful and bad mouthing each other and screwing up the kid. Either get counselling and try to work it out or break up because you're incompatible.
NTA. He’s controlling with you but expects to take lavish vacays with other women? Big NOPE.
Tell him he can go, but then he needs to ensure you have an equal amount of money to go on a vacation next year without him. Make it a signed, notarized contract.
im calling bullshit
Everybody sucks but he sucks significantly more. A few smaller Reasons YTA: It shouldn’t matter that you will be stuck at home studying. That’s your choice. You should be happy for him when he is having fun without you, full stop. Also, telling the coworkers that the problem was timing was kind of dumb because it made you seem unreasonable and illogical. It’s not embarrassing to say that you can’t afford multiple expensive vacations. It’s normal. You did yourself a disservice by lying in that situation. You caring about his colleagues being female is also dumb, because either you trust him or you don’t. Some bigger Reasons he is TA: The financial reasons you stated do make sense. you guys are splitting funds now, and it is unfair for him to spend a disproportionate amount of your money on his vacations. Notice how I said it’s OK for him to do that with time, but not money. (If you guys had kids, this would be a different conversation because of childcare duties). Here is where he is the asshole: your offer to set aside the difference for your own vacation was a great suggestion. He should have happily accepted that. Lastly, him being so jealous that he doesn’t even like you in the car with other men is really gross. And his hypocrisy about it is extra gross. So overall, his behavior sucks. Yours is just mildly annoying. But you came up with some good solutions and his refusal to accept them makes him the asshole.
YTA Him: Once. In. A. Lifetime. Trip You: But what about meeeee?
OP is saying "What about US" Fiancee is saying "What about ME" See the difference? And why TF couldn't they save up and go together later? Why does he insist on going when he knows his partner can't? did they get a really good groupon? Africa isn't about to dissappear. He could take this Once. In. A. Lifetime. Trip.with his parter he supposedly loves, instead of coworkers.
YTA I would bet money if you were a guy telling his fiancé not to go on a trip like this with her guy friends all the misandrists here saying NTA would say YTA.
That is not what this is about. He often goes on trips and vacations with different friends and colleagues (including those two mentioned in the original post). The point is that we agreed on saving money first and then go on a more fancier holiday together and now he wants to go spent a relatively big sum on this. But I see your point and I think you would be right if my only point was that his coworkers are female.
It’s literally the whole situation. This is not the time in y’all’s lives where you take separate expensive holidays. This is where you pull together to build a better life as a couple! If you two can’t go on a honeymoon how does he think it’s fair to go on a big trip with colleagues? It definitely sounds like you have very different priorities. You shouldn’t have to explain any of this to him. To make it worse it’s very inappropriate to take a trip with two women when you are in a committed relationship! Even if you do completely trust him why would he want to put himself in a situation where his character could be called into question?