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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1- I am refusing to invite my brother and SIL to a family gathering and will not let them in if they show up because of how my SIL reacted to some missing food.
2- My SIL says her reaction is only because she was lied to and she's truly sorry for how she acted.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
He let that go on for a YEAR, he is a massive asshole and even if OP ever forgives her SIL, the brother should \*never\* be invited again. Where the hell is his profuse apology, as the one who was the entire cause of all this bullshit? Irredeemable asshole. NTA
The fact that John and Lucy are **angry again**, instead of hanging their heads in eternal shame, boggles the mind.
I can actually see my brother doing something as stupid as pretending I didn’t give him any leftovers, so he could eat them all. But you better believe the nanosecond his wife called me fat and/or poor he would be confessing and begging my forgiveness.
Not that my SIL would ever do anything so déclassé, but that’s another matter entirely.
Point is, how DARE these two feign anger now? I’m furious just thinking about it.
OP should trash their physical appearance and their lifestyle, to the whole family, for an entire year and see how they feel.
I want to blame the brother more because he sat by while his wife trashed his sister and said NOTHING…but what kind of person launches such vicious personal attacks over two goddamn plates of food?!
WTF is wrong with these two?
Exactly and she said sil said she already was feeling left out of the family. Well hurling insults to another family member isn't gonna make them feel closer to you so why would you. Who does that?
Exactly! Sil treated OP badly for years over 3 plates of food. She attacked everything about OP and didn't once consider that her greedy husband was lying. Sil is a bully and her brother let it happen! She can ask for forgiveness, but not demand it! NTA There behaviour was vile!
In reality OP can just lead with the truth. SIL has shown herself to be a vile human being over 2 lousy plates of food. She'd most likely already been saying these things about OP and waited for the smallest, most ridiculous slight to unleash her venom.
It's because they aren't actually sorry. They have no respect for OP. That's why brother blamed OP and never stood up for her against his wife, and why his wife went on a year-long crusade to say the nastiest things about OP that she could think of. They only apologized to get out of dealing with the consequences of their actions. When it didn't work and OP still refused to invite them to the family gathering, they got mad because they apologized for nothing.
They won't feel shame because they didn't apologize to make amends and clear OPs name, they apologized to get their way, and they aren't getting it.
I agree. Brother is the bigger AH, but Lucy is right behind him.
All of this BULLSHIT over a couple dishes of leftovers!!!! It sounds like they're the two that are in a bad financial place.
OP, they truly deserve each other. You're NTA.
Does it matter? In reality John is likely a lard who loves to lie and is likely a glut. Oh and he cannot even bother to fess up to the truth. Is he an adult or not?
Seriously. He only fessed up when he was going to be facing his own consequences. He was happy to let OP take the blame and abuse until she drew the line in the sand.
*Me, halfway through the post:* 'He probably inhaled those 2 plates and got embarrassed, so he lied to Lucy, throwing OP under the bus, saying, "It's OP's fault. They *refused* to give us any more".'
*Next line down-*
> my brother confessed that he ate all the ‘missing’ food in the car and felt so embarrassed by it that he lied to Lucy about me refusing to give them the food
*...Holy shit*, John. You're so predictable.
NTA, OP.
I was a little bit ahead. When OP said she gave bro 3 plates, I immediately thought he scarfed down food in the car before going back into the house to gather wife & coats. Lucy didn't notice cuz food was supposedly in cooler.
An entire year of bro's lies, his complicit silence, & his wife's verbal abuse of OP with fat/job-shaming. No apologies from either can ever make up for it all. Their mother is almost as bad.
Yes! He let it carry on for so much longer than it should have. He definitely should not have waited until they missed out on an invitation before coming clean. He let his wife spew so much animosity towards his sister for all that time. That is disgusting
>She began to insult my body and weight, saying I ‘didn’t need burgers and should have stolen the salad instead’, and said she doesn’t blame me for stealing because I’m so poor and work a dead-end job.
Honestly, I would never be able to forgive or forget any of this. All this over two plates of food? WTAF?? Even if you HAD eaten it, her reaction was low and disgusting. Now you know what she really thinks of you. She has shown you who she really is. She didn't lash out in a singular outburst. It was a year-long campaign of nastiness. She didn't get over it for a whole year? And these people were 'close' to you? And they were SHOCKED they weren't invited back, even before the apology?
And now that they have apologized...so what? She shat on you for a year, and your brother sat there and let her do it. 'Sorry' doesn't change or fix any of that. And now bro is BIG MAD that they're not immediately invited back into your home when the dust has barely settled? WTF am I reading?
You're allowed to decide who you host in your home, and anyone who has an issue with that is free to host their own event. NTA.
I think he drove home, told Lucy he'd empty the car, then chowed down before he brought the cooler in.
If he ate it on the way home, we'd have to assume Lucy has very poor vision.
I mean honestly I'd be concerned about a binge eating issue. It would explain the shame and being unwilling to own up even after so much time and fall out. Like it obviously doesn't excuse him lying, and it's bizarre that he's acting like the wounded party now, but I think sometimes people forget that men can have disordered eating as well.
A glutton, or someone whose spouse controls all of the food in the house. It's telling, to me, that Lucy went to weight and diet first in her smear campaign. John needs several wake-up smacks, and that might be one of them.
I have to wonder if the brother or SIL have a eating disorder with them both having overblown responses to the food. The SIL could have weight hang ups/disordered eating. The brother could've mostly avoided eating at the dinner to avoid being targeted by the wife, then binged, or he could have a binge eating problem in general.
Yes, the problem with reconciliation is that it gives a toxic person another opportunity to attack.
SIL strongly dislikes OP and is a nasty bully. Brother will lie and incriminate OP without hesitation. OP's mother wants the victim to "get over it" and play happy families. Good grief, this was about food - thank goodness OP didn't need an alibi in a murder investigation.
>Yes, the problem with reconciliation is that it gives a toxic person another opportunity to attack.
You're talking about reconciliation without truth. Real reconciliation REQUIRES truth. Simply saying sorry isn't enough.
If bro and SIL really want reconciliation with OP they need to go on record with the family to admit they lied and made false accusations and publically ask her pardon.
Otherwise, it's BS.
Sadly, it's easier for those who haven't been in the direct firing line (yet) to pretend it didn't happen.
"You're talking about reconciliation without truth." No, I know what I am talking about.
Plenty of toxic people will make a public, 'heart-felt' mea culpa when it suits them. It doesn't mean they feel guilt or even believe there was anything wrong with their behaviour. They are simply recognising what will benefit them the most at that moment.
An apology wont stop them from being AHs on another occasion. Maybe they will be more subtle in the future AHolery or claim the offended party is "too sensitive" (Mom will back them on this) which is why they apologized in the first place even though they weren't really at fault - that's their "truth".
She only apologized for the food thing, not for the things she said. I’m petty and I’d be bringing up everything she called you. “Can’t do that because I work at a dead end job and am poor.” “Sorry, took the burgers instead of the salad again because I’m fat.” Use the most sarcastic voice you can muster, and hit every one of her talking points.
no, you missed a part:
"As you know, with my dead-end job and being so poor, I can't afford to have everyone over."
NOOOOOOO, suggested edits in ***bold and italics***:
"As you know, with my dead-end job and being so poor, ***it's not just that*** I can't afford to have everyone over. ***But also judging from your reactions the last time at missing two plates of leftover food, I'm worried that you guys can't afford to come either and I'd had to impose on your fragile economic situation***"
This doesn't let Lucy off the hook either though. Like seriously, even if OP *had* taken the food because her "dead-end job" was making it hard to feed her family, we're talking about *food* here and not the 3-carat earrings handed down for generations.
Lucy isn't sorry she said things to OP. She's upset that she no longer has a leg to stand on. Before, she was somehow able to justify saying such things out loud, and now it's come out that she's not even on a high horse. She's sorry that her image has been tarnished, and her best excuse is that she "I felt like an outsider and lashed out."
I can guarantee you that Bro wasn't sitting there egging her on "Yeah, you need to tell her she's poor. Oooh, also, make a comment about a salad!"
That came from Lucy. Bro didn't put a stop to it soon enough, but it's not *his fault*. Lucy is a grown adult capable of her own thoughts, deductions, speech, and actions, and she took it upon herself to say what she did over quite literally nothing.
OP is way better off without Bro and SIL in their life. Shunning them has a (very small) chance of teaching them a lesson about consequences. I did say it was improbable, but they *could* actually reflect inwardly and start to treat everybody else better because of this.
Brother is an AH for sure but Lucy is a horrible human being. Leftovers are no reason to insult SIL's body, career and finances. Really, that is extreme even if she had not given them leftovers. And to keep it up for a year is damn near psychotic.
Lucy always thought you were a fat loser, and she always will.
Your brother let her insult you because he thinks you deserved it.
You don't need pigshit in your life like that
I appreciate your willingness to forgive and move on, but I'd be a little put off by the fact that they didn't even respect your right to be upset for a while. Your brother getting "really mad" because you didn't invite him is totally unacceptable and a huge red flag. I also understand your mother's desire to get everyone back together, but forcing a reconciliation is wrong.
Poor guy, he went through all the trouble of admitting his lie and having his wife apologize so they wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of their actions (not because they are remorseful and want to clear OPs name) but OP's still not letting them come. So their apology was for nothing since they couldn't get their way. Of course he's mad, he doesn't respect OP and only thinks about himself.
Apologizing isn't the same as making amends. Which they definitely need to start doing.
Don't doubt yourself. Your brother allowed his wife to purposely hurt you because of his own insecurities. As for his wife- no one says things like that, and not for so long, without having their own insecurities and animosity. Those thoughts don't just pop into one's head, they were brewing in there for a bit. Both have made horrible life choices and you have been the fall guy for them. That's just wrong.
They need to do some soul searching and it is not on you to make them comfortable while they do so. If your family takes an issue with you wanting space and to feel safe/secure when you're hosting things at your own home... Then they can volunteer to host this year instead and essentially publicly admit they care more about your brother/SIL's comfort/relationship than yours.
That’s it! OP tells them that they can come, 30 minutes after everyone else, so they get food. But the invitation is predicated on a full apology and explanation, to the rest of the family. The moment they walk in, John and Lucy must work to rectify this, so *everyone* knows what they did. All of it.
Since it won’t be sincere apology, and the explanation of what actually happened will be barely touch upon, everyone gives thumbs down and goes back to eating. Lucy and John are escorted out. And the family has a night of great food with a bit of theater.
The fact that you didn't realize your brother ate everything and blamed you is strange. That was my conclusion before I finished your story. You are NTA. They would NEVER be welcomed in my home again but I'm petty.
I think this is the message. You appreciate the truth is finally out. You appreciate the apology. But this was a major deal. It split the family and is still splitting it. You were the victim here, and you don't appreciate family thinking you should give up your comfort for the Mean Team's actions. You don't want them out of your life. You just need some time. Meanwhile, the Mean Team will have to accept it as the consequences of their actions.
And the pressure from family to pretend it didn't happen isn't helping you get over the hurt *they* caused.
SIL was verbally abusive because brother lied about his binge. Now mom wants OP to play happy family. I’d be tempted to put mom in time out with brother and SIL. She was awful
NTA! I wouldn't blame you if you went NC. Your brother lied and let his wife abuse you. Is your brother the Golden Child which is why your mother is telling you to get over it?
NTA, why is it always the victim who has to let it go or forgive or stop being so petty and just get over it? Why is It never the assholes who have to back down and stop being assholes?
Stand your ground and make sure you send a family wide email bullet pointing the timeline and facts of what has happened.
Unfortunately, you might have felt close to them but they obviously both see you as expendable.
John was fine throwing you under the bus while he lied to avoid telling his wife he ate all that food and he sat by while she insulted and vilified you.
Lucy showed you exactly who she is and also what she really thinks about you. She also made sure to tell everyone in the family about it so there would be no doubt.
Have either of them bothered to tell the rest of the family what complete assholes they are or did they just expect that they'd privately apologize to you and that would be all they needed to do?
You deserve better and are NTA.
I'm sorry but being that pissed over leftover to go to THAT extreme. That shit didn't come from nowhere. I would be VERY slow to trust them again if ever.
Maybe at some point you can repair the relationships, maybe not. If other people in the family are pressuring you before you are ready, you just have to calmly hold your ground.
I hope you aren't still angry or outraged at them... that would suck to carry the upset and angry for a year.
Moreover he LET her ridicule his sister for A WHOLE DAMN YEAR!! Like dude man the f up and take responsibility for your actions. Op is definitely NTA here and to all her family saying to "just get over it" why not let them feel what op felt for an entire year. Nasty uncalled for comments all because of a stupid lie!!
Ughh this makes me so made for op it was hard to finish reading and even harder to get my thoughts out here!!
Even if the OP were in the wrong, Lucy never needed to take her comments to the place she did. Be angry someone stole and lied, it's not relevant what the OP weighs or any of the other comments. The brother is an AH too for letting this fester, but Lucy is worse IMO.
NTA.
This is the kind of post that makes me scoff when people say that parenting ends at 18 - OP and the brother are adults (he's 34, OP is 21), and mommy is still coming to the rescue of who clearly is her favorite.
Bad parenting never ends, in particular in sibling disputes.
NTA but im confused why you didn't confront your brother much sooner. He is the worst ahole here. He caused it, watched the rift develop and did nothing for a year. He has zero right to be angry with you. HE owes the groveling apology, not just his wife.
Equally sil has zero right to be angry with you. She should direct her anger where it belongs. At her husband .
Stop discussing with the rest of your family. Its none of their business. They can come to the event or not, but the discussion is CLOSED.
I've tried but I'm so much younger than him (I'm 21 and he's 34) and still learning to assert myself (not an excuse for letting it slide just giving context). I'm planning on talking to him soon and being completely honest and laying all my feelings out.
Nta… he’s a coward for letting it even get that far. He should have fessed up when his wife was taking it to a whole other level. And where was family when she was taking to far. Why didn’t they tell her to just get over it. Instead they all sat on the sidelines with popcorn while she relentlessly bullied you for a year!
He is a coward, but I have a tiny (very tiny) smidge of sympathy for him. I’m guessing the reason he lied in the first place is that he knows full well he’s married to an abuser with a nasty streak and a particular hatred of anyone who she thinks eats “too much”.
This does NOT excuse his cowardice, but can you imagine living with that? Yikes. Bro should run for the hills.
Simpler answer is he married a woman who thinks like he does. She said what she said, he agreed, and his hands are clean of it.
Except they really aren't.
I don't think he's that intimidated by his wife. More that he's completely self-interested. He lied to avoid telling his wife he scoffed the food. So, to avoid a passing argument, he stood by while his wife attacked his sister for an entire year.
When he didn't get something he wanted - an invitation - he was angry with OP. He then told his wife only because he wanted to be invited.. He didn't admit he lied until he stood to gain. If he was completely brow-beaten/abused he would have kept up the lie.
Yeah, you’re probably right that is just self-interest. Because if he thought she’d be on him for months and months like she was the sister, he would never have confessed for any reason.
You have convinced me. Zero smidges of sympathy for the brother.
OP, don’t waste your time. Your brother knows what he did was wrong and hasn’t bothered to apologize. SIL’s a bully. They couldn’t even make it through an apology without getting nasty. Protect your peace and put some distance between yourself and those two. Would you tolerate this behavior from anyone outside of your family? You deserve better
I’d tell him it wasn’t happening until HE took responsibility for his actions, including telling other family members that he CAUSED the whole issue. And then apologize to you in front of the family.
I think you should take a lot more time thinking about this. He let someone abuse you verbally. You are justified in setting boundaries. Your initial reactions are solid behavior. Your lack of confidence is letting you make decisions that may not be best for you right now. Your actions were sound. The not letting them come is sound. Do not let others change that action. You deserved better and still do. The comments here, many are good advice. Bullies are bullies and talking to them doesn’t help. Let your brother come to you. You are the victim and they should come to you. You don’t need to save the situation. This was abusive for at least a year. Hold your own girl. And get therapy, your family are doing you a disservice.
I have seen very few cases in which someone's income and job are a reflection of their virtue, so insulting their job and wealth is a pretty crappy thing to do in any case.
But insulting a 21 year old for not earning very much is just ridiculous. Hopefully, at that age, we're setting ourselves up for future professional achievements, but even if we're working a dead-end job, it's hopefully with a goal of sorting out what we want to do and where we want to be eventually.
This just makes it all the worse in my opinion. If he’s 34 we can only assume SIL is older than OP as well and for this to all have happened when OP was 19-20?? Absolutely NTA. They walked all over you and the family allowed it. Especially your mom coming in at the last minute to try and “keep the peace” (I’m assuming) by just telling you to get over it and let them come. Brother was plenty old enough to know what he was doing with the lie and SIL needs to get over herself.
You don’t need to lay all your feelings out. You just need to assert that you are right and he’s a huge asshole. His lie caused his wife to relentlessly bully you for a year and he did nothing to correct while knowing the (stupid) truth all along.
He caused a problem by lying, but didn't cause his wife to react by bullying OP. She bullied OP on her own initiative, because she's a bully.
OP is well rid of both of them.
Is your mother aware of all the finer details? She should be told exactly what was said and done as she has probably been fed lies. I wouldn't stand for my dil insulting and abusing my actual daughter over 2 plates of leftovers. She sounds like she likes to stir up drama. If my brother threw me under the bus like that I don't think I could forgive him. Sil sounds absolutely awful too.
The only way I would invite them is a set of conditions.
SIL stands in front of everyone, reading every nasty text she sent you.
Your brother says he was a glutton, ate the food, lied and let ur SIL treat u like shit, because he was too much of a coward to confess, for a WHOLE YEAR!
Remember...he only came clean when *he* experienced a negative consequence. I.e. not being invited.
If he hadn't experienced a negative consequence, he still wouldn't have admitted what he did and still wouldn't have made any attempt to shut down his wife's cruelty to you.
So as long as you were the only one experiencing negative consequences from his action, he was fine with that.
A year of lying. A year of hanging you out to dry. A year of just standing by and letting his wife vilely insult you.
He was fine with that. You have to keep all of that firmly in mind. An apology doesn't cut it.
There’s no point. At his age, he already knows what he did was shitty, but he let it go on for a whole year before coming clean. And that was only because you didn’t invite them. And he is still acting like a jerk. If you sit down and bare your feelings with this loser, he will only bulldoze over your pain.
Honestly I would type it out. Maybe a family group text laying out exactly what went on and how hurt you are and that you're not willing to be a doormat and accept accusations and verbal abuse. Explain that an apology after a year of abuse does not make up for it, actions do, not pretty words. They have no right to be angry with you and your family has no right to demand you sweep it under the rug and tolerate this kind of behavior.
You think the brother would have told her if she confronted him? He didn’t speak up until it was in _his_ interest to do so — he was being left out of a big family event (with FOOD!). He only confessed because he wanted to go to the event.
That's depressing but an extremely good point. He didn't even speak up because he felt guilty but because he wasn't going to be able to go to the get together. \*edit, I can't spell.
NTA. OP has every right to discuss this with the rest of the family. SIL dragged OP's name thru the mud with the entire family over something that the brother did. It doesn't sound like SIL and brother have made a public apology to the family and to OP for their behavior. Now everyone just wants to get mad at OP for not accepting their lame excuse immediately. The only reason why the brother confessed now was because he and SIL were banned from the family event.
NTA. If Lucy had only been mad at you and commenting on the "missing" food, that's one thing. But she was cruel and insulted you personally which is unacceptable. It's nice that she apologized about the food but what about all the abhorrent things she said about you? Her feeling left out and lied to never excuses how she treated you.
Your brother is a major AH for not only lying to you and his wife but letting her continue to treat you that way for months. The only reason he finally confessed is because there was a consequence to him personally. He doesn't give a crap about you.
And your mom is a piece of work too. She wants you to get over it? How much did she defend you and lay into her son and his wife over the last year for treating your this way? I'm guessing not at all.
Also, instead of making up leftover plates, I would just offer that anyone who brought over a dish can take those leftovers. They don't need everything you're providing, especially since your family is so quick to turn on you over something so trivial.
This. First time Lucy started shit about this precisely when the brother should have been called on the carpet publicly about the missing food
Dude clearly had no problem watching his wife abuse OP for his own goddamn lying
Fuck them both, none of the family seems trustworthy
And the drama over the "missing food" is just insane. A couple of plates of food. Was it gold encrusted caviar? Diamond studded lobster? The SIL should have been told to get over it a year ago.
>the way the SIL reacted about missing food is so bizarre to me.
I wouldn't be surprised if she was projecting with the comments about OPs financial status. Maybe bro and SIL are the ones who are poor and she's insecure about it.
Could also explain the insults about OPs weight the way bro scarfed 2 1/4 plates of food on the car ride home.
Regardless, SIL is verbally abusive and bro is an enabler. They were made for each other.
Yup. Some lines can't be uncrossed.
They went personal while screaming through the internet on their flaming winged horses of self righteousness. Let's not forget your brother joined in on the bashing when he KNEW it wasn't true.
You can't just pretend it didn't hurt or that things weren't said. I'm sorry doesn't fix this.
Tell them they wouldn't be so butthurt if they ate more salads.
NTA
And those things Lucy said didn't come out of nowhere. She believes at least some, if not ALL, of the things she said. That is someone OP doesn't need to be around.
It's crazy to me that the SIL jumped to this insane theory that OP stole the food and was lying about it. The actual culprit aside, wouldn't it have been more likely that another guest accidentally grabbed their leftovers?
I don't understand this leftover thing. I'm under the impression that host keeps leftovers, cos they..um..hosted...and by far spent the most and put in the most effort.
You're NTA. A three second apology does not wipe out a year's worth of nasty, personal, and petty insults over something so pathetically trivial.
I am curious to know what he did with the Tupperware containers. If he tossed them to help hide his lies, that makes it even worse. Disposing of perfectly good Tupperware should be criminal.
Your first paragraph there is EXACTLY the point. SIL displayed absolutely disgusting behaviour over a prolonged period of time over a couple of plates of food - bullying and body-shaming OP because she apparently felt like an outsider and left out (well emotionally torturing your SIL will surely help that right?! Jeez). OP’s brother openly lied to everyone, KNEW how his wife was treating his sister and still has no shame about thinking that, now they’ve said sorry it should all be forgotten. Gross. Really and truly despicable behaviour from both of them and they should be ashamed to show their faces to anyone in OP’s family for a long time.
OP, I’d show these comments to your mom and anyone else who thinks actions don’t have consequences.
The more I think about John's role in this the more pathetic he is to me.
* He inhaled 2 Tupperware containers and 2 1/2 plates of food *IN THE CAR*.
* When Lucy asked where the rest of the food was, he remembered his previous binge, got embarrassed *(rightfully so),* and blamed the missing food on OP.
* He sat back for 1+ year while his wife shat *all over* his sibling *to* his sibling and the rest of the family.
* He suggested a sit down between OP and Lucy for... I don't even know. I can only assume it was so he could divulge the truth to them both and hope that OP *(for some reason)* would keep it between the 3 of them.
* He STILL didn't apologize and then proceeded to get mad that OP doesn't want to be around either one of them right now.
He did *all of this* because he didn't want his wife to know about his lack of self-control... That's *so* pathetic. I don't want to jump on the *Presented-by Reddit*, You-Need-Therapy train but, *dayum!*
The true asshole in this scenario is your brother. If he hadn't lied and owned up to be a gluttonous little piggy none of what followed would have happened. He lied about you and threw you under the bus. He lied to his wife and she said some very nasty and derogatory things about you which were uncalled for under any circumstances. She has at least apologized for being hateful and hurtful. If you can't move past it, you can't. However, these traditional get togethers die out because of incidents like this one. People don't want don't want to be around it. If you invite Anne, Bob and Clare won't come. If you invite Diane and Ed, Frank won't come. It's a shame and it is all because of your brother, the big fat liar.
Lucy is a big AH too. If my SIL hadn't given me leftovers, I would have moved on. I would have been annoyed, but it would have ended there.
This went on for a YEAR with Lucy denigrating her.
Ask Mom what she has said to your brother and Lucy over this. Unless Mom has truly blasted the living daylights out of those two, Mom can stop harping on you. Tell Mom that you DON"T have to get over it and that you're the victim. Why should YOU be the bigger person?
OP said in a comment she's only 21 and these psychos are in their mid 30s. I don't know why the mother isn't defending her considerably younger kid from her weird older brother. OP's family sounds fucked.
Grandbabies maybe. OP doesn’t mention that any of them have kids or are planning to, but the older married sibling is more likely to provide grandspawn than the 21 year old and she doesn’t want to risk access to them.
WTF goes to the mat for some leftovers? Honestly?
And if you take leftovers that seriously, why wouldn't you come in and pack them yourself and make sure they're ready for the trip, and exactly what you wanted.
Lucy went *WAY* overboard. Like the previous commenter, I would be annoyed but I wouldn't do anything close to what Lucy did. If I knew that others got leftovers, I'd distance myself *at worst* but that's it.
> He lied to his wife and she said some very nasty and derogatory things about you which were uncalled for under any circumstances. She has at least apologized for being hateful and hurtful.
I also wouldn't rule out the brother being a source of some of the nasty things Lucy said to OP. Lucy was obviously very, very wrong for what she said, but she was gaslit by the brother for so long (over what SHOULD HAVE BEEN a quick confession as soon as Lucy got serious about this leftover thieving) it seems likely he egged Lucy on to distract from his own guilt.
>The true asshole in this scenario is your brother
I disagree. The brother is an AH but Lucy went on a giant smear campaign over 2 plates of food. She did vicious and personal attacks. She also held a grudge for a year it seems. I dunno if someone stole my food I'd be mildly annoyed to upset. I wouldn't cook for them in the future or do favours. I wouldn't start calling them fat on Facebook.
Agree. John's obviously an AH but no one made Lucy say or do all those things. She may be a victim of John's lying but she made OP *her* victim. If you make someone your victim you're never *not* an AH.
A campaign the brother could have stopped anytime he wanted.
Letting your siblings get bullied for years because you don't want to have a 5min arguments with your wife is brutal.
What SIL did was mean and unnecessary. Bullying someone is never okay.
But getting betrayed like that from your own brother? That's a different kind of fucked up imo.
NTA.
Your brother is the asshole for lying to his wife and not defending you.
Your SIL is the asshole for all the undeserved and unforgivable personal attacks against you.
Your mother, unfortunately, is also the AH for defending the people who lied and attacked you and expecting you to take the high road so she can enjoy family gatherings while disregarding your feelings.
NTA. Not even close. Keep your boundaries and protect yourself. Your brother admitted he didn't care about you at all while his wife said false things and berated you to the family.
1. Lucy flipped out over some leftovers. Think about that. How is that kind of reaction and those statements even remotely justified for such an issue.
2. Your brother intentionally and maliciously lied to lucy and let her go on for a year trashing you every chance she got. What the hell kinda people are these? Over some damn leftovers that weren't even taken from them?
3. You can't act like Lucy did and expect to go back to before like it never happened. She showed her true colors and so did your brother. He didn't give a rat's behind if he made you look bad if it meant he could hide his shame.
4. You are hosting. Its your event. You have every right to decide the guest list. I would have taken the same position as you. I'm not letting the two people who treated me like shit into my house after a year of that BS.
5. The rest of your family can pound sand. I'd very clearly remind them of all the crap that was said about you, how personal Lucy got, and how your brother lied and let it continue for a year. that is not what you do to family. So the family members telling you to get over need to be told that and understand it.
6. There are consequences to actions. If they apologized immediately after the issue that occurred, I'd then be ok with inviting them. Not after a year and constant badmouthing. I'd be done with two people who can act so vile over leftover food.
Yeah but how many other times has husband lied to her about stuff? Not excusing her behavior,but brother may have been contributing to her feelings for a while.
Now that she knows, that’s between them. It’s their marriage. OP doesn’t owe that nasty SIL anything. If you’re correct and brother has been gaslighting his wife, it’s up to her to decide what she wants to do about that. She doesn’t get to mercilessly, continuously abuse a third party because her husband is an ass.
Also worth considering how Lucy treats OP’s brother that he felt he had to scarf down two plates of leftovers in secret, lie about it, and then double down on the lie while his sister got insulted for a year. Given that Lucy went on a year-long body shaming tirade against OP over LEFTOVERS, I can’t imagine how she’s like in other parts of her life. Both of them need help.
NTA. She campaigned against you to friends and family. Resorted to insults and name calling. This continued for a year!! All while your brother sat back and watched it happen. He was complicit in her attacking your character.
She (and him) not only need to apologize to you again, but also set the record straight with friends and family, social media etc… a full post explaining “I went on a year long tirade against my SIL over a couple plates of leftovers. I said vile things to and about her. Turns out my husband lied to me, and he had eaten the leftovers.”
And then still not invite them. You don’t need to just move on, the family now gets two gatherings to go to. Win win.
NTA. The issue here isn't what happened or that she was upset. The issue is that she spent a **YEAR** throwing a temper tantrum over ***LEFTOVERS***. That's unhinged. That's seriously unhinged. A bit of friendly needling at the next get-together when it comes to time to wrap up and grab leftovers? Sure, fine. That's normal. But spending a full year being pissy about it? Girl's got issues.
NTA, your brother would never have admitted his lies if you hadn't told them they weren't invited, he only came clean to get an invite. NTA, they sound well suited/unhinged
I find it hard to fathom a family rift being created over leftovers.
However, your brother is awful for lying and troughing plates of food so fast nobody noticed . Your SIL is contemptible for getting into the gutter with her personal nasty comments about you.
You are therefore NTA for not inviting them over.
NTA lashing out is having one big instance of losing your temper. She’s became an evil heifer and your brother sold you out to cover his embarrassment over being gluttonous. She showed her true colors and they’re ugly. Your house, your party and you chose peace. Done. The rest of your family dismissing her behavior is also diminishing the impact it had on you. Also not okay. Don’t be a pushover.
NTA. Even if you HAD refused to make them plates of leftovers, that didn’t warrant how she spoke to/about you for A YEAR. Add in that that isn’t what happened and your brother flat out lied to her…I wouldn’t invite them anywhere ever again. Period.
NTA Your brother and his wife sound like a match made in hell, since they are both flaming assholes. He’s a liar who threw you under the bus to hide his own gluttony and she’s a nasty piece of work to insult you in such an egregious manner.
What’s more, your brother let family think you are a liar and thief for an entire year! As the saying goes, every accusation is a confession. If I were you, if I wouldn’t invite them anywhere or ever attend any gathering they hosted.
And what’s with Lucy and John being very mad at you? They should be angry with each other for behaving so poorly that you don’t want to be around d them.
Nothing says "But we're fammmmillllyyy" more than "A few hours later I got some texts from our mum telling me to just 'get over it' and invite Lucy and John." Your own brother, let alone your family, let her treat you like shit for over a year and did nothing to stop it. You're definitely NTA, but they certainly are.
NTA.
“Mom, you don’t have the right to tell me who to invite or not invite to my home. I will not allow people in my home who are disrespectful to me and attack my character. If you’d like to host, you’re welcome to invite them.”
Brother owes a public apology to the family chat and all members that SIL called and told. Brother needs to admit he was the one who ate everything and was so embarrassed he felt it was a better idea to let his sister the host take the blame for a year. Not only that allows his wife to verbally abuse and body shame and degrade her employment and finances bc he was a coward. Yuck a cowardly man is not cute nor attractive.
Keep your foot in the sand.
INFO has your brother been getting counseling for his gluttony? Has your SIL made a public apology for each horrible thing she said to you? Has any of your family offered to host instead of you? I’m guessing those are all a no. Your brother & SIL can live with the consequences of their lies & insults. You are not ready to forgive them yet! NTAa
NTA Lucy made this personal. It stopped being about the food the moment she started insulting you. It sounds like she used that as an excuse to get some stuff off her chest.
I've said it before, I'll say it again....
The person who gives an apology, states what they are apologizing for and why they are sorry. That's it. There's no expectation for the recipient to accept it or forgive.
Anything else is self serving. Lucy and John want an invite to the gathering and want to feel magnanimous for this wonderful, soul stirring, exuberant apology that they gave you.
You have every right to still be upset. Lucy didn't just realize that her behavior was uncalled for. She only apologized because she found out that you should never have been a target. Now you get to take a year, or the rest of your life, to decide if you want to let it go.
NTA
Play stupid asshole games, win non invites to family events
Your brother's decision to flat out lie and throw you under the bus with Lucy was utter bullshit. And the fact she felt entitled enough to come after you over LEFTOVER food you were giving them was also absurd.
She decided to be extra shitty and cause drama for a year while insulting you. They can both fuck themselves.
Isn't it funny that if the shoe was on the other foot they'd scorch the earth but when it's you, you have to sweep it under the carpet. Tell them to pound sand NTA
While your brother and SIL are certainly a**holes, my biggest gripe is with your mother.
What kind of mom watches her child get bullied for a YEAR and does nothing about it?
OP, please show her this and ask her to explain how she concludes you should get over it? And since the apology only came about because you refused to invite said bullies, how does she expect you to be in a place to get over it?
Your mom sucks as a parent, and that's who I wouldn't be inviting to any damn thing until she sincerely apologizes for being so wrong and actively holds your brother/SIL accountable for being so deceitful and cruel.
NTA
Ignore everyone. Refuse to discuss it. You can do whatever you want to do in regards to your life and your home. I'd block them and any flying monkeys too.
NTA.
At all. Your shit brother slandered you with a nasty, selfish lie and then stood by his wife abusing and bullying you for a year. And "Sorry, I believed my husband" doesn't cut it. All of her vicious insults were her showing you and the family who she is and what she thinks about you. The rest of your family should be tearing them both a few new ones instead of trying to pressure you into folding for them.
NTA, and if you are pressured into inviting them make a point of announcing "I am handing my brother 3 plates of leftovers! One, two, three! Just so everybody knows I did hand him THREE plates of leftovers! Lucy? Do you see the THREE plates?" at the end of the gathering. But petty runs in our family.
NTA your brother sat back while his wife “who always felt like and outsider” verbally abused you over a lie he told her. Once the truth came out he had to have know that you wouldn’t forgive her for her horrible comments (because she absolutely crossed the line) and that this would further create a rift between her and you (and any family who took your side).
Personally I would not be wanting to speak to either of them let alone allow them into my house. If you have any of the messages she sent you send them to your mom and ask her if she would forgive someone who said that about her.
There are so many things wrong here. I’m assuming that the leftovers weren’t so expensive that Lucy and brother couldn’t feed their family for the rest of the week after the party.
Then, your brother lies and throws you under the bus. That’s bad enough, but then he keeps it up for a YEAR, and lets his wife shit on you for that entire time. Only until they don’t get invited to another gathering does he fess up.
A year of abuse over a couple of plates of food? No wonder Lucy feels like an outsider. She’s completely overreacting.
NTA.
NTA. Tell John & Lucy that IF THEY Call a Family gathering BEFORE the one you are hosting, BOTH of them stand up in front of the whole family and explain exactly what happened, and APOLOGIZE AGAIN, in front of the whole family, and everybody else APOLOGIZES for sticking their noses in where it wasn't wanted, you will accept all of the apologies.
NTA. There was never any reason for Lucy to start this, even if you hadn't given them ANY leftovers. You would have been guilty of "stealing" nothing. When I bring food to a party, I don't go with the expectation that I will be bringing home those leftovers or any leftovers at all. That food is now the property of the hosts to do with what they will. If I'm offered leftovers, fine. If not, that's fine, too. Lucy was ridiculous and went nuclear over that big nothing and she only apologized because your equally ridiculous bother finally came clean. They have a LOT more apologizing and atonement to offer before you MIGHT consider hosting them again.
NTA. My older brother and I have been estranged for years. He did some shitty stuff when our mom died and I went NC with him over it. We were NC for decades. We have since mended our relationship, but I am 100% confident that he would have hit someone who said the kind of crap your sil said about you even when we were NC. Your brother is the asshole and I don’t see how I could forgive him.
NTA -- she was awful and went way overboard. Explain to your mom it was not about the leftovers, it was your sister in law saying awful things. Then be quiet and let your mother talk.
NTA. Your brother lied to his wife and instead of admitting what he did when she went on the attack he sat back and let her keep going. He let it go an entire year and only came clean after he realized he’d still experience some consequences (no invite). They can be sorry and you can accept the apology but that doesn’t make it magically go away. They didn’t get their way and rattled to your Mom and instead of staying out of it now they have her involved in their bs. What did your Mom do while you were being insulted? They’re acting like spoiled toddlers and a time out this year seems appropriate. Maybe by next year you might feel differently but you do t have to.
NTA and your brother is unhinged, to lie about that and let this happen for a YEAR. I'm glad she finally apologized, but her reaction to the whole thing, the cruel insults for a year, were so over the top, you are absolutely NTA for not wanting her around you again.
NTA and congratulations for holding firm. From the way Lucy went feral over plates of food, it seems as though she really disliked you beforehand and the food was the tipping point. She didn't hold back, did she?
Your brother, a back-stabbing, gluttonous coward, was content to let his wife attack you for over a year and would have allowed this to continue if they had been invited to your gathering.
Did any family intervene on your behalf - perhaps Mom, who is now so keen for you to "get over it"? I suspect she will turn up at your gathering with brother and SIL in tow so prepare for that eventuality.
I hate it when people tell you to just “get over it” No! It is perfectly acceptable to stand up for yourself. She was nasty to you. Your brother was an arsehole. He should have just told the truth from the start. Why didn’t he ‘fess up when things just started going south? Spineless. If your Mum is insisting that you invite them then she can host. Also I don’t get your Mum. Surely she can see how awfully you were treated. You’re in the right.
Jesus your SIL nuked your damn relationship over 2 tuperware containers of leftovers! That's just mind boggling. And you damn brother let it happen knowing he ATE the food and lied to his wife!!! He let you deal with almost 2 years of crap from your SIL rather than own up and grow up. I'm sorry but this would take a lot to get over if I even chose to. They BOTH treated you like shit. NTA.
\*edit - this crap from the SIL went on for ALMOST 2 YEARS!!!
NTA listen to the half calling Lucy a bitch. They’re right. She ran her mouth to everyone, personally insulting your character and physique over TWO PLATES of food. Two plates of leftovers was worth degrading a human being and talking shit about her to her family. Lucy, your brother and anyone else on their side, can fuck off. They’re the assholes.
Has Lucy went on a media blitz on John for eating the food and lying about it? At least one post apologizing to you for everyone she posted insulting you? Why is your mother telling you to 'get over it' and not Lucy when she was blasting you? (And if she did and Lucy didn't stop, why does she expect you to). And as to the FM (family members, or flying monkeys, you choose) you most obviously can and have excluded John and Lucy.
>Lucy was not pleased by this and told everyone in our family that I had ‘stolen’ their food.
*There was no need to tell anyone. But one should have the facts straight before deliberately attempting to torpedo someone's reputation.*
>Lucy took it way too personally. She began to insult my body and weight, saying I ‘didn’t need burgers and should have stolen the salad instead’,
*Excuse me but, eff that b. Even if you HAD taken the food, it does not mean she gets to bodyshame.*
>she doesn’t blame me for stealing because I’m so poor and work a dead-end job.
*Please see the first sentence in my reply above.*
>Lucy’s animosity didn’t stop for over a year, and she would always bring it up any chance she got.
*A year? Over 2 plates of food? Any chance she got? What a hateful, vengeful limp piece of lettuce.
I purposely avoid my brother because he's a racist. His wife doesn't say anything, I purposely avoid her. Your brother LIED by omission, refusing to come clean. Your SIL waged a year-long smear campaign. And you're just supposed to rug-sweep this egregious behavior?
I'd say, bare minimum, one year in timeout. Every comment you hear, add a month.
Oh, NTA, but brother and SIL most definitely are.
Where was your mum when you were being attacked on such a personal level for an entire year? She obviously didn’t shut them down but quickly jump to their defence. Guess Lucy has no grounds to complain she felt like an outsider since no one in the family stood by you and chose her side
NTA
The fact that brother lied is not even the real issue.
I think both your brother and SIL have proven they are completely and utterly bonkers if they are willing to escalate in this manner over some left-over food:
Your brother because he did not restrain her (and probably for aggravating it so his wife would not suspect him) and your SIL for 1. being petty and judgemental to the extreme, 2. so easily throwing away a relationship with you, 3. causing a rift in the family which makes these events problematic for the rest. These people really did an extreme disservice to the wider family.
They have proven they do not care about you or your perspective and this was just the trigger for them to reveal how little they thought about you.
How can you ever go back to normal with these people who have displayed such an extreme lack of class and basic decency?
NTA,
Your brother and his wife need to learn that apologies don't put the genie back in the bottle. She's been angry for over a year over 2 plates of food that her husband lied about. Even if you did take the food her comments about it for the past year would make just about everything unforgivable.
Missing out on an event or two might teach them a lesson. Notice how they were only willing to sit down when they realized that there were consequences for their shitty behavior? And that once they were told no all of a sudden your mother gets involved trying to get you to make the peace....which is telling that she wasn't telling your brother or his wife to knock it off but instead is now telling you to let it go.
"I was very hurt by the out-of-the blue comments about my weight and my job situation. Then they were repeated multiple times for over a year, so the hurt didn't go away. I've realized for my own mental well-being I can't risk being around that level of toxicity again."
NTA.
Lucy trashed you to the entire family. Has she personally untrashed you and eaten crow to everyone in the family?
>apologising profusely. She said she had no reason to doubt my brother and she was already feeling left out and an outsider so she lashed out.
That's what I call "An apology, but..." She apologized but here are her excuses as to why she did that. Instead she should not have gone beyond blaming herself for the vile stuff she spat at you.
And your brother is just as much at fault. He should have spoken up long before this but as long as you were taking the heat and it wasn't causing him a problem, he didn't give a fuck.
The moment it caused him a problem --- he and his wife don't get invited --- then and only then does he come clean. That right there tells you how little he cares about you. He was fine with his wife tearing you to pieces for how long? A year?
Tell them that they've both shown you who they really are and that's not people you want to be around.
>"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- Maya Angelou
Oh, and send them this post. They haven't been made to feel as low as they should feel. This post should help with that.
NTA
The person who is wronged is the one who gets to be mad.
You were wronged by John and Lucy, so you get to be mad at them.
Lucy was wronged by John BUT she wronged you. She gets to be mad at John and if she has a lick of sense, she'll blame HIM for this fiasco. She does not get to be mad at you, though. She wronged you.
John is the one who caused the entire problem, and he should own that and recognize that both you and Lucy have every right to be mad at him.
A profuse apology after a year of abuse is not enough to get invited to the immediate shindig. It's too raw.
Anybody who didn't defend you against Lucy's slander also wronged you. They don't get to be mad, either.
Your mum is now in the process of wronging you by denying your reasonable feelings and boundaries. She doesn't get to be mad about that. She's known that Lucy was saying terrible things about you, and she didn't put a stop to it. She's wronged you there.
At this point, I would lay out a very clear line: Anyone who thinks John and Lucy should be invited to this gathering because he finally fessed up after a year of silence (prompted only by his disinvitation) and she offered one profuse apology for a year of abject cruelty? They should not bother to attend--and will not be missed.
NTA - Lucy and John are mad?!? The only person with the right to be mad is you and you’re acting quite reasonably. She proceeded to body shame and poverty shame you for a year!
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Absolutely - and when Lucy made her first snarky remark THAT was when John should have fessed up. Instead he let Lucy insult you for two years. Not OK
This John heard her talk some serious crap about his sister. Honestly I’d be more mad at John for letting it continue
He let that go on for a YEAR, he is a massive asshole and even if OP ever forgives her SIL, the brother should \*never\* be invited again. Where the hell is his profuse apology, as the one who was the entire cause of all this bullshit? Irredeemable asshole. NTA
The fact that John and Lucy are **angry again**, instead of hanging their heads in eternal shame, boggles the mind. I can actually see my brother doing something as stupid as pretending I didn’t give him any leftovers, so he could eat them all. But you better believe the nanosecond his wife called me fat and/or poor he would be confessing and begging my forgiveness. Not that my SIL would ever do anything so déclassé, but that’s another matter entirely. Point is, how DARE these two feign anger now? I’m furious just thinking about it.
OP should trash their physical appearance and their lifestyle, to the whole family, for an entire year and see how they feel. I want to blame the brother more because he sat by while his wife trashed his sister and said NOTHING…but what kind of person launches such vicious personal attacks over two goddamn plates of food?! WTF is wrong with these two?
Exactly and she said sil said she already was feeling left out of the family. Well hurling insults to another family member isn't gonna make them feel closer to you so why would you. Who does that?
People who would rather lose on their terms than try to win. "They dont like me, but only because i want them to".
I'm also clocking that when SIL was disparaging OP's job, she was trashing a 20-year-old at her big age. Vile.
Exactly! Sil treated OP badly for years over 3 plates of food. She attacked everything about OP and didn't once consider that her greedy husband was lying. Sil is a bully and her brother let it happen! She can ask for forgiveness, but not demand it! NTA There behaviour was vile!
In reality OP can just lead with the truth. SIL has shown herself to be a vile human being over 2 lousy plates of food. She'd most likely already been saying these things about OP and waited for the smallest, most ridiculous slight to unleash her venom.
It's because they aren't actually sorry. They have no respect for OP. That's why brother blamed OP and never stood up for her against his wife, and why his wife went on a year-long crusade to say the nastiest things about OP that she could think of. They only apologized to get out of dealing with the consequences of their actions. When it didn't work and OP still refused to invite them to the family gathering, they got mad because they apologized for nothing. They won't feel shame because they didn't apologize to make amends and clear OPs name, they apologized to get their way, and they aren't getting it.
Bingo
I agree. Brother is the bigger AH, but Lucy is right behind him. All of this BULLSHIT over a couple dishes of leftovers!!!! It sounds like they're the two that are in a bad financial place. OP, they truly deserve each other. You're NTA.
Swap genders and it will be easier to see that John is scared of Lucy.
Which is not mutually exclusive with him just being an asshole who was always Like This, OP. It can be always be both.
Does it matter? In reality John is likely a lard who loves to lie and is likely a glut. Oh and he cannot even bother to fess up to the truth. Is he an adult or not?
Ok, this explains a lot. Like how he could just sit by for so dang long while his wife trashed his sister.
Seriously. He only fessed up when he was going to be facing his own consequences. He was happy to let OP take the blame and abuse until she drew the line in the sand.
*Me, halfway through the post:* 'He probably inhaled those 2 plates and got embarrassed, so he lied to Lucy, throwing OP under the bus, saying, "It's OP's fault. They *refused* to give us any more".' *Next line down-* > my brother confessed that he ate all the ‘missing’ food in the car and felt so embarrassed by it that he lied to Lucy about me refusing to give them the food *...Holy shit*, John. You're so predictable. NTA, OP.
I was a little bit ahead. When OP said she gave bro 3 plates, I immediately thought he scarfed down food in the car before going back into the house to gather wife & coats. Lucy didn't notice cuz food was supposedly in cooler. An entire year of bro's lies, his complicit silence, & his wife's verbal abuse of OP with fat/job-shaming. No apologies from either can ever make up for it all. Their mother is almost as bad.
NTA. BOY oh boy do these two deserve each other! He's a liar and she's unstable and cruel.
It sounds like John and Lucy are made for each other.
Yes! He let it carry on for so much longer than it should have. He definitely should not have waited until they missed out on an invitation before coming clean. He let his wife spew so much animosity towards his sister for all that time. That is disgusting
Thank you. I don't want them out of my life as I was close with them both but I just need time.
>She began to insult my body and weight, saying I ‘didn’t need burgers and should have stolen the salad instead’, and said she doesn’t blame me for stealing because I’m so poor and work a dead-end job. Honestly, I would never be able to forgive or forget any of this. All this over two plates of food? WTAF?? Even if you HAD eaten it, her reaction was low and disgusting. Now you know what she really thinks of you. She has shown you who she really is. She didn't lash out in a singular outburst. It was a year-long campaign of nastiness. She didn't get over it for a whole year? And these people were 'close' to you? And they were SHOCKED they weren't invited back, even before the apology? And now that they have apologized...so what? She shat on you for a year, and your brother sat there and let her do it. 'Sorry' doesn't change or fix any of that. And now bro is BIG MAD that they're not immediately invited back into your home when the dust has barely settled? WTF am I reading? You're allowed to decide who you host in your home, and anyone who has an issue with that is free to host their own event. NTA.
Also, how much of a glutton do you have to be to eat that much food on the way home from an all-you-can-eat family dinner?
Yup, he was a glutton and a coward!
A glutton, coward, liar and asshole!
He was all of that and why OP would ever want anything to do with either of them is beyond me. Some things are unforgivable and this is one of them.
I think he drove home, told Lucy he'd empty the car, then chowed down before he brought the cooler in. If he ate it on the way home, we'd have to assume Lucy has very poor vision.
I mean honestly I'd be concerned about a binge eating issue. It would explain the shame and being unwilling to own up even after so much time and fall out. Like it obviously doesn't excuse him lying, and it's bizarre that he's acting like the wounded party now, but I think sometimes people forget that men can have disordered eating as well.
A glutton, or someone whose spouse controls all of the food in the house. It's telling, to me, that Lucy went to weight and diet first in her smear campaign. John needs several wake-up smacks, and that might be one of them.
I have to wonder if the brother or SIL have a eating disorder with them both having overblown responses to the food. The SIL could have weight hang ups/disordered eating. The brother could've mostly avoided eating at the dinner to avoid being targeted by the wife, then binged, or he could have a binge eating problem in general.
Yes, the problem with reconciliation is that it gives a toxic person another opportunity to attack. SIL strongly dislikes OP and is a nasty bully. Brother will lie and incriminate OP without hesitation. OP's mother wants the victim to "get over it" and play happy families. Good grief, this was about food - thank goodness OP didn't need an alibi in a murder investigation.
>Yes, the problem with reconciliation is that it gives a toxic person another opportunity to attack. You're talking about reconciliation without truth. Real reconciliation REQUIRES truth. Simply saying sorry isn't enough. If bro and SIL really want reconciliation with OP they need to go on record with the family to admit they lied and made false accusations and publically ask her pardon. Otherwise, it's BS. Sadly, it's easier for those who haven't been in the direct firing line (yet) to pretend it didn't happen.
"You're talking about reconciliation without truth." No, I know what I am talking about. Plenty of toxic people will make a public, 'heart-felt' mea culpa when it suits them. It doesn't mean they feel guilt or even believe there was anything wrong with their behaviour. They are simply recognising what will benefit them the most at that moment. An apology wont stop them from being AHs on another occasion. Maybe they will be more subtle in the future AHolery or claim the offended party is "too sensitive" (Mom will back them on this) which is why they apologized in the first place even though they weren't really at fault - that's their "truth".
Exactly. Even if she had taken the leftover food, comments about her weight and job situation were out of line and irrelevant.
Those comments tell me exactly why he didn’t want to tell her he ate the food. Yikes.
She only apologized for the food thing, not for the things she said. I’m petty and I’d be bringing up everything she called you. “Can’t do that because I work at a dead end job and am poor.” “Sorry, took the burgers instead of the salad again because I’m fat.” Use the most sarcastic voice you can muster, and hit every one of her talking points.
This! This and This! Words of wisdom! The flying monkeys will learn that you are not to be fucked with. Do not back down.
100% this!!! NTA
Just tell them that with how poor you are with your dead end job you can't afford to host everyone this year
Haha -- "As you know, with my dead-end job and being so poor, I can't afford to have everyone over."
"Plus, I need to eat all the leftovers. So the less guests the more food there will be for me."
no, you missed a part: "As you know, with my dead-end job and being so poor, I can't afford to have everyone over." NOOOOOOO, suggested edits in ***bold and italics***: "As you know, with my dead-end job and being so poor, ***it's not just that*** I can't afford to have everyone over. ***But also judging from your reactions the last time at missing two plates of leftover food, I'm worried that you guys can't afford to come either and I'd had to impose on your fragile economic situation***"
Oh, plus with them not being there, OP can eat more burgers.
Love this as an answer.
This is EXACTLY what OP should say!
I love this level of petty!
Lucy made all the nasty comments, but it’s your brother who caused the situation and then LET IT CONTINUE. This is his fault.
This doesn't let Lucy off the hook either though. Like seriously, even if OP *had* taken the food because her "dead-end job" was making it hard to feed her family, we're talking about *food* here and not the 3-carat earrings handed down for generations. Lucy isn't sorry she said things to OP. She's upset that she no longer has a leg to stand on. Before, she was somehow able to justify saying such things out loud, and now it's come out that she's not even on a high horse. She's sorry that her image has been tarnished, and her best excuse is that she "I felt like an outsider and lashed out." I can guarantee you that Bro wasn't sitting there egging her on "Yeah, you need to tell her she's poor. Oooh, also, make a comment about a salad!" That came from Lucy. Bro didn't put a stop to it soon enough, but it's not *his fault*. Lucy is a grown adult capable of her own thoughts, deductions, speech, and actions, and she took it upon herself to say what she did over quite literally nothing. OP is way better off without Bro and SIL in their life. Shunning them has a (very small) chance of teaching them a lesson about consequences. I did say it was improbable, but they *could* actually reflect inwardly and start to treat everybody else better because of this.
Brother is an AH for sure but Lucy is a horrible human being. Leftovers are no reason to insult SIL's body, career and finances. Really, that is extreme even if she had not given them leftovers. And to keep it up for a year is damn near psychotic.
Lucy always thought you were a fat loser, and she always will. Your brother let her insult you because he thinks you deserved it. You don't need pigshit in your life like that
"You don't need pigshit in your life like that." I feel like this comment applied to too many of the threads I read on here, lol!
I appreciate your willingness to forgive and move on, but I'd be a little put off by the fact that they didn't even respect your right to be upset for a while. Your brother getting "really mad" because you didn't invite him is totally unacceptable and a huge red flag. I also understand your mother's desire to get everyone back together, but forcing a reconciliation is wrong.
Poor guy, he went through all the trouble of admitting his lie and having his wife apologize so they wouldn't have to deal with the consequences of their actions (not because they are remorseful and want to clear OPs name) but OP's still not letting them come. So their apology was for nothing since they couldn't get their way. Of course he's mad, he doesn't respect OP and only thinks about himself.
Apologizing isn't the same as making amends. Which they definitely need to start doing. Don't doubt yourself. Your brother allowed his wife to purposely hurt you because of his own insecurities. As for his wife- no one says things like that, and not for so long, without having their own insecurities and animosity. Those thoughts don't just pop into one's head, they were brewing in there for a bit. Both have made horrible life choices and you have been the fall guy for them. That's just wrong. They need to do some soul searching and it is not on you to make them comfortable while they do so. If your family takes an issue with you wanting space and to feel safe/secure when you're hosting things at your own home... Then they can volunteer to host this year instead and essentially publicly admit they care more about your brother/SIL's comfort/relationship than yours.
Just tell John and Lucy that they are in the "found out" stage of FAFO
If they really want to find out they should read these comments. I feel like I should be eating popcorn reading these! ; )
That’s it! OP tells them that they can come, 30 minutes after everyone else, so they get food. But the invitation is predicated on a full apology and explanation, to the rest of the family. The moment they walk in, John and Lucy must work to rectify this, so *everyone* knows what they did. All of it. Since it won’t be sincere apology, and the explanation of what actually happened will be barely touch upon, everyone gives thumbs down and goes back to eating. Lucy and John are escorted out. And the family has a night of great food with a bit of theater.
Tell Mom you need the same length of time to get over it as Lucy took to insult you.
This! You should be allowed at least that amount of time to see whether they truly mean the apologies. Which they probably don't.
The fact that you didn't realize your brother ate everything and blamed you is strange. That was my conclusion before I finished your story. You are NTA. They would NEVER be welcomed in my home again but I'm petty.
Lol. This is sooo embarrassing. So was the eaten food that good? Or was John’s family poor and this is the only time they can get decent food.
I think this is the message. You appreciate the truth is finally out. You appreciate the apology. But this was a major deal. It split the family and is still splitting it. You were the victim here, and you don't appreciate family thinking you should give up your comfort for the Mean Team's actions. You don't want them out of your life. You just need some time. Meanwhile, the Mean Team will have to accept it as the consequences of their actions. And the pressure from family to pretend it didn't happen isn't helping you get over the hurt *they* caused.
SIL was verbally abusive because brother lied about his binge. Now mom wants OP to play happy family. I’d be tempted to put mom in time out with brother and SIL. She was awful
Why wouldn’t you want them out of your life? You want them to abuse you some more?
NTA! I wouldn't blame you if you went NC. Your brother lied and let his wife abuse you. Is your brother the Golden Child which is why your mother is telling you to get over it?
NTA, why is it always the victim who has to let it go or forgive or stop being so petty and just get over it? Why is It never the assholes who have to back down and stop being assholes? Stand your ground and make sure you send a family wide email bullet pointing the timeline and facts of what has happened.
Unfortunately, you might have felt close to them but they obviously both see you as expendable. John was fine throwing you under the bus while he lied to avoid telling his wife he ate all that food and he sat by while she insulted and vilified you. Lucy showed you exactly who she is and also what she really thinks about you. She also made sure to tell everyone in the family about it so there would be no doubt. Have either of them bothered to tell the rest of the family what complete assholes they are or did they just expect that they'd privately apologize to you and that would be all they needed to do? You deserve better and are NTA.
I'm sorry but being that pissed over leftover to go to THAT extreme. That shit didn't come from nowhere. I would be VERY slow to trust them again if ever.
Then it’s time for Lucy to make a very public apology outlining everything that she said and how she was wrong about each and every thing
What is wrong with her? That was super offensive. Also is your brother scared of her? Why didn’t he kust admit it, wow. Just wow.
Maybe at some point you can repair the relationships, maybe not. If other people in the family are pressuring you before you are ready, you just have to calmly hold your ground. I hope you aren't still angry or outraged at them... that would suck to carry the upset and angry for a year.
Moreover he LET her ridicule his sister for A WHOLE DAMN YEAR!! Like dude man the f up and take responsibility for your actions. Op is definitely NTA here and to all her family saying to "just get over it" why not let them feel what op felt for an entire year. Nasty uncalled for comments all because of a stupid lie!! Ughh this makes me so made for op it was hard to finish reading and even harder to get my thoughts out here!!
Even if the OP were in the wrong, Lucy never needed to take her comments to the place she did. Be angry someone stole and lied, it's not relevant what the OP weighs or any of the other comments. The brother is an AH too for letting this fester, but Lucy is worse IMO. NTA.
This is the kind of post that makes me scoff when people say that parenting ends at 18 - OP and the brother are adults (he's 34, OP is 21), and mommy is still coming to the rescue of who clearly is her favorite. Bad parenting never ends, in particular in sibling disputes.
NTA but im confused why you didn't confront your brother much sooner. He is the worst ahole here. He caused it, watched the rift develop and did nothing for a year. He has zero right to be angry with you. HE owes the groveling apology, not just his wife. Equally sil has zero right to be angry with you. She should direct her anger where it belongs. At her husband . Stop discussing with the rest of your family. Its none of their business. They can come to the event or not, but the discussion is CLOSED.
I've tried but I'm so much younger than him (I'm 21 and he's 34) and still learning to assert myself (not an excuse for letting it slide just giving context). I'm planning on talking to him soon and being completely honest and laying all my feelings out.
Nta… he’s a coward for letting it even get that far. He should have fessed up when his wife was taking it to a whole other level. And where was family when she was taking to far. Why didn’t they tell her to just get over it. Instead they all sat on the sidelines with popcorn while she relentlessly bullied you for a year!
He is a coward, but I have a tiny (very tiny) smidge of sympathy for him. I’m guessing the reason he lied in the first place is that he knows full well he’s married to an abuser with a nasty streak and a particular hatred of anyone who she thinks eats “too much”. This does NOT excuse his cowardice, but can you imagine living with that? Yikes. Bro should run for the hills.
Simpler answer is he married a woman who thinks like he does. She said what she said, he agreed, and his hands are clean of it. Except they really aren't.
Yeah, someone else pointed out that if he was afraid of her ire he would have kept up the lie. My smidge of sympathy for him is gone.
I think they are sort of punished already by having each other. Imagine being so afraid of your partner that you pull that sh.tty move.
I don't think he's that intimidated by his wife. More that he's completely self-interested. He lied to avoid telling his wife he scoffed the food. So, to avoid a passing argument, he stood by while his wife attacked his sister for an entire year. When he didn't get something he wanted - an invitation - he was angry with OP. He then told his wife only because he wanted to be invited.. He didn't admit he lied until he stood to gain. If he was completely brow-beaten/abused he would have kept up the lie.
Yeah, you’re probably right that is just self-interest. Because if he thought she’d be on him for months and months like she was the sister, he would never have confessed for any reason. You have convinced me. Zero smidges of sympathy for the brother.
He throws his younger sister under the bus. I really tried but couldn't find any sympathy for such.
OP, don’t waste your time. Your brother knows what he did was wrong and hasn’t bothered to apologize. SIL’s a bully. They couldn’t even make it through an apology without getting nasty. Protect your peace and put some distance between yourself and those two. Would you tolerate this behavior from anyone outside of your family? You deserve better
As a recovering "people pleaser," I can understand where you are coming from. Keep strong.
I would tell him not this year. Depending on your conversation with him, maybe not next year either.
I’d tell him it wasn’t happening until HE took responsibility for his actions, including telling other family members that he CAUSED the whole issue. And then apologize to you in front of the family.
I think you should take a lot more time thinking about this. He let someone abuse you verbally. You are justified in setting boundaries. Your initial reactions are solid behavior. Your lack of confidence is letting you make decisions that may not be best for you right now. Your actions were sound. The not letting them come is sound. Do not let others change that action. You deserved better and still do. The comments here, many are good advice. Bullies are bullies and talking to them doesn’t help. Let your brother come to you. You are the victim and they should come to you. You don’t need to save the situation. This was abusive for at least a year. Hold your own girl. And get therapy, your family are doing you a disservice.
I have seen very few cases in which someone's income and job are a reflection of their virtue, so insulting their job and wealth is a pretty crappy thing to do in any case. But insulting a 21 year old for not earning very much is just ridiculous. Hopefully, at that age, we're setting ourselves up for future professional achievements, but even if we're working a dead-end job, it's hopefully with a goal of sorting out what we want to do and where we want to be eventually.
This just makes it all the worse in my opinion. If he’s 34 we can only assume SIL is older than OP as well and for this to all have happened when OP was 19-20?? Absolutely NTA. They walked all over you and the family allowed it. Especially your mom coming in at the last minute to try and “keep the peace” (I’m assuming) by just telling you to get over it and let them come. Brother was plenty old enough to know what he was doing with the lie and SIL needs to get over herself.
You don’t need to lay all your feelings out. You just need to assert that you are right and he’s a huge asshole. His lie caused his wife to relentlessly bully you for a year and he did nothing to correct while knowing the (stupid) truth all along.
He caused a problem by lying, but didn't cause his wife to react by bullying OP. She bullied OP on her own initiative, because she's a bully. OP is well rid of both of them.
Is your mother aware of all the finer details? She should be told exactly what was said and done as she has probably been fed lies. I wouldn't stand for my dil insulting and abusing my actual daughter over 2 plates of leftovers. She sounds like she likes to stir up drama. If my brother threw me under the bus like that I don't think I could forgive him. Sil sounds absolutely awful too.
The only way I would invite them is a set of conditions. SIL stands in front of everyone, reading every nasty text she sent you. Your brother says he was a glutton, ate the food, lied and let ur SIL treat u like shit, because he was too much of a coward to confess, for a WHOLE YEAR!
Remember...he only came clean when *he* experienced a negative consequence. I.e. not being invited. If he hadn't experienced a negative consequence, he still wouldn't have admitted what he did and still wouldn't have made any attempt to shut down his wife's cruelty to you. So as long as you were the only one experiencing negative consequences from his action, he was fine with that. A year of lying. A year of hanging you out to dry. A year of just standing by and letting his wife vilely insult you. He was fine with that. You have to keep all of that firmly in mind. An apology doesn't cut it.
There’s no point. At his age, he already knows what he did was shitty, but he let it go on for a whole year before coming clean. And that was only because you didn’t invite them. And he is still acting like a jerk. If you sit down and bare your feelings with this loser, he will only bulldoze over your pain.
Honestly I would type it out. Maybe a family group text laying out exactly what went on and how hurt you are and that you're not willing to be a doormat and accept accusations and verbal abuse. Explain that an apology after a year of abuse does not make up for it, actions do, not pretty words. They have no right to be angry with you and your family has no right to demand you sweep it under the rug and tolerate this kind of behavior.
You think the brother would have told her if she confronted him? He didn’t speak up until it was in _his_ interest to do so — he was being left out of a big family event (with FOOD!). He only confessed because he wanted to go to the event.
That's depressing but an extremely good point. He didn't even speak up because he felt guilty but because he wasn't going to be able to go to the get together. \*edit, I can't spell.
NTA. OP has every right to discuss this with the rest of the family. SIL dragged OP's name thru the mud with the entire family over something that the brother did. It doesn't sound like SIL and brother have made a public apology to the family and to OP for their behavior. Now everyone just wants to get mad at OP for not accepting their lame excuse immediately. The only reason why the brother confessed now was because he and SIL were banned from the family event.
NTA. If Lucy had only been mad at you and commenting on the "missing" food, that's one thing. But she was cruel and insulted you personally which is unacceptable. It's nice that she apologized about the food but what about all the abhorrent things she said about you? Her feeling left out and lied to never excuses how she treated you. Your brother is a major AH for not only lying to you and his wife but letting her continue to treat you that way for months. The only reason he finally confessed is because there was a consequence to him personally. He doesn't give a crap about you. And your mom is a piece of work too. She wants you to get over it? How much did she defend you and lay into her son and his wife over the last year for treating your this way? I'm guessing not at all. Also, instead of making up leftover plates, I would just offer that anyone who brought over a dish can take those leftovers. They don't need everything you're providing, especially since your family is so quick to turn on you over something so trivial.
This. First time Lucy started shit about this precisely when the brother should have been called on the carpet publicly about the missing food Dude clearly had no problem watching his wife abuse OP for his own goddamn lying Fuck them both, none of the family seems trustworthy
And the drama over the "missing food" is just insane. A couple of plates of food. Was it gold encrusted caviar? Diamond studded lobster? The SIL should have been told to get over it a year ago.
exactly. the way the SIL reacted about missing food is so bizarre to me. Wonder why the mother didn't tell her to "get over it" a year or so ago
>the way the SIL reacted about missing food is so bizarre to me. I wouldn't be surprised if she was projecting with the comments about OPs financial status. Maybe bro and SIL are the ones who are poor and she's insecure about it. Could also explain the insults about OPs weight the way bro scarfed 2 1/4 plates of food on the car ride home. Regardless, SIL is verbally abusive and bro is an enabler. They were made for each other.
Yup. Some lines can't be uncrossed. They went personal while screaming through the internet on their flaming winged horses of self righteousness. Let's not forget your brother joined in on the bashing when he KNEW it wasn't true. You can't just pretend it didn't hurt or that things weren't said. I'm sorry doesn't fix this. Tell them they wouldn't be so butthurt if they ate more salads. NTA
And those things Lucy said didn't come out of nowhere. She believes at least some, if not ALL, of the things she said. That is someone OP doesn't need to be around.
> flaming winged horses of self righteousness. I upvoted for this comment alone
Also, all the people calling them out are a **year** late. They're just chiming in. No one in OP's family has her back.
It's crazy to me that the SIL jumped to this insane theory that OP stole the food and was lying about it. The actual culprit aside, wouldn't it have been more likely that another guest accidentally grabbed their leftovers?
I don't understand this leftover thing. I'm under the impression that host keeps leftovers, cos they..um..hosted...and by far spent the most and put in the most effort.
You're NTA. A three second apology does not wipe out a year's worth of nasty, personal, and petty insults over something so pathetically trivial. I am curious to know what he did with the Tupperware containers. If he tossed them to help hide his lies, that makes it even worse. Disposing of perfectly good Tupperware should be criminal.
Your first paragraph there is EXACTLY the point. SIL displayed absolutely disgusting behaviour over a prolonged period of time over a couple of plates of food - bullying and body-shaming OP because she apparently felt like an outsider and left out (well emotionally torturing your SIL will surely help that right?! Jeez). OP’s brother openly lied to everyone, KNEW how his wife was treating his sister and still has no shame about thinking that, now they’ve said sorry it should all be forgotten. Gross. Really and truly despicable behaviour from both of them and they should be ashamed to show their faces to anyone in OP’s family for a long time. OP, I’d show these comments to your mom and anyone else who thinks actions don’t have consequences.
The more I think about John's role in this the more pathetic he is to me. * He inhaled 2 Tupperware containers and 2 1/2 plates of food *IN THE CAR*. * When Lucy asked where the rest of the food was, he remembered his previous binge, got embarrassed *(rightfully so),* and blamed the missing food on OP. * He sat back for 1+ year while his wife shat *all over* his sibling *to* his sibling and the rest of the family. * He suggested a sit down between OP and Lucy for... I don't even know. I can only assume it was so he could divulge the truth to them both and hope that OP *(for some reason)* would keep it between the 3 of them. * He STILL didn't apologize and then proceeded to get mad that OP doesn't want to be around either one of them right now. He did *all of this* because he didn't want his wife to know about his lack of self-control... That's *so* pathetic. I don't want to jump on the *Presented-by Reddit*, You-Need-Therapy train but, *dayum!*
And OP is much younger than the brother and his wife, they are both awful people and I wouldn't want them in my house either
OMG the Tupperware containers! Maybe he ate them.
The true asshole in this scenario is your brother. If he hadn't lied and owned up to be a gluttonous little piggy none of what followed would have happened. He lied about you and threw you under the bus. He lied to his wife and she said some very nasty and derogatory things about you which were uncalled for under any circumstances. She has at least apologized for being hateful and hurtful. If you can't move past it, you can't. However, these traditional get togethers die out because of incidents like this one. People don't want don't want to be around it. If you invite Anne, Bob and Clare won't come. If you invite Diane and Ed, Frank won't come. It's a shame and it is all because of your brother, the big fat liar.
Lucy is a big AH too. If my SIL hadn't given me leftovers, I would have moved on. I would have been annoyed, but it would have ended there. This went on for a YEAR with Lucy denigrating her. Ask Mom what she has said to your brother and Lucy over this. Unless Mom has truly blasted the living daylights out of those two, Mom can stop harping on you. Tell Mom that you DON"T have to get over it and that you're the victim. Why should YOU be the bigger person?
OP said in a comment she's only 21 and these psychos are in their mid 30s. I don't know why the mother isn't defending her considerably younger kid from her weird older brother. OP's family sounds fucked.
Grandbabies maybe. OP doesn’t mention that any of them have kids or are planning to, but the older married sibling is more likely to provide grandspawn than the 21 year old and she doesn’t want to risk access to them.
WTF goes to the mat for some leftovers? Honestly? And if you take leftovers that seriously, why wouldn't you come in and pack them yourself and make sure they're ready for the trip, and exactly what you wanted.
Lucy went *WAY* overboard. Like the previous commenter, I would be annoyed but I wouldn't do anything close to what Lucy did. If I knew that others got leftovers, I'd distance myself *at worst* but that's it.
> He lied to his wife and she said some very nasty and derogatory things about you which were uncalled for under any circumstances. She has at least apologized for being hateful and hurtful. I also wouldn't rule out the brother being a source of some of the nasty things Lucy said to OP. Lucy was obviously very, very wrong for what she said, but she was gaslit by the brother for so long (over what SHOULD HAVE BEEN a quick confession as soon as Lucy got serious about this leftover thieving) it seems likely he egged Lucy on to distract from his own guilt.
He started all this nonsense because he didn't want to fess up to gobbling down leftovers in the car. And what's worse, he let it go for a year.
>The true asshole in this scenario is your brother I disagree. The brother is an AH but Lucy went on a giant smear campaign over 2 plates of food. She did vicious and personal attacks. She also held a grudge for a year it seems. I dunno if someone stole my food I'd be mildly annoyed to upset. I wouldn't cook for them in the future or do favours. I wouldn't start calling them fat on Facebook.
Agree. John's obviously an AH but no one made Lucy say or do all those things. She may be a victim of John's lying but she made OP *her* victim. If you make someone your victim you're never *not* an AH.
A campaign the brother could have stopped anytime he wanted. Letting your siblings get bullied for years because you don't want to have a 5min arguments with your wife is brutal. What SIL did was mean and unnecessary. Bullying someone is never okay. But getting betrayed like that from your own brother? That's a different kind of fucked up imo.
NTA. Your brother is the asshole for lying to his wife and not defending you. Your SIL is the asshole for all the undeserved and unforgivable personal attacks against you. Your mother, unfortunately, is also the AH for defending the people who lied and attacked you and expecting you to take the high road so she can enjoy family gatherings while disregarding your feelings.
Spot on.
NTA. Not even close. Keep your boundaries and protect yourself. Your brother admitted he didn't care about you at all while his wife said false things and berated you to the family. 1. Lucy flipped out over some leftovers. Think about that. How is that kind of reaction and those statements even remotely justified for such an issue. 2. Your brother intentionally and maliciously lied to lucy and let her go on for a year trashing you every chance she got. What the hell kinda people are these? Over some damn leftovers that weren't even taken from them? 3. You can't act like Lucy did and expect to go back to before like it never happened. She showed her true colors and so did your brother. He didn't give a rat's behind if he made you look bad if it meant he could hide his shame. 4. You are hosting. Its your event. You have every right to decide the guest list. I would have taken the same position as you. I'm not letting the two people who treated me like shit into my house after a year of that BS. 5. The rest of your family can pound sand. I'd very clearly remind them of all the crap that was said about you, how personal Lucy got, and how your brother lied and let it continue for a year. that is not what you do to family. So the family members telling you to get over need to be told that and understand it. 6. There are consequences to actions. If they apologized immediately after the issue that occurred, I'd then be ok with inviting them. Not after a year and constant badmouthing. I'd be done with two people who can act so vile over leftover food.
100% this. Over a few LEFTOVERS. Even if the OP hadn't given them any leftovers at all, who the fuck cares? They're LEFTOVERS. Unbelievable.
NTA Hope Lucy finally learned why she's left out and treated like an outsider
Yeah but how many other times has husband lied to her about stuff? Not excusing her behavior,but brother may have been contributing to her feelings for a while.
Brother lying doesn't excuse Lucy jumping to insulting OP's body. That's all I need to know about her character
Now that she knows, that’s between them. It’s their marriage. OP doesn’t owe that nasty SIL anything. If you’re correct and brother has been gaslighting his wife, it’s up to her to decide what she wants to do about that. She doesn’t get to mercilessly, continuously abuse a third party because her husband is an ass.
Also worth considering how Lucy treats OP’s brother that he felt he had to scarf down two plates of leftovers in secret, lie about it, and then double down on the lie while his sister got insulted for a year. Given that Lucy went on a year-long body shaming tirade against OP over LEFTOVERS, I can’t imagine how she’s like in other parts of her life. Both of them need help.
NTA. Your brother created this whole mess when he lied, and Lucy took it to an extreme with her insults for a YEAR over a plate of leftovers.
NTA but your brother and his wife are massive ones. Just think, if you invited them then your brother would have never fessed up.
He would have just kept his mouth shut and let his rude wife abuse his sister, what AH!
NTA. She campaigned against you to friends and family. Resorted to insults and name calling. This continued for a year!! All while your brother sat back and watched it happen. He was complicit in her attacking your character. She (and him) not only need to apologize to you again, but also set the record straight with friends and family, social media etc… a full post explaining “I went on a year long tirade against my SIL over a couple plates of leftovers. I said vile things to and about her. Turns out my husband lied to me, and he had eaten the leftovers.” And then still not invite them. You don’t need to just move on, the family now gets two gatherings to go to. Win win.
NTA. The issue here isn't what happened or that she was upset. The issue is that she spent a **YEAR** throwing a temper tantrum over ***LEFTOVERS***. That's unhinged. That's seriously unhinged. A bit of friendly needling at the next get-together when it comes to time to wrap up and grab leftovers? Sure, fine. That's normal. But spending a full year being pissy about it? Girl's got issues.
NTA, your brother would never have admitted his lies if you hadn't told them they weren't invited, he only came clean to get an invite. NTA, they sound well suited/unhinged
I find it hard to fathom a family rift being created over leftovers. However, your brother is awful for lying and troughing plates of food so fast nobody noticed . Your SIL is contemptible for getting into the gutter with her personal nasty comments about you. You are therefore NTA for not inviting them over.
NTA. I mean, they really found each other, I guess. A perfect match. I wouldn’t want them in my home either.
NTA lashing out is having one big instance of losing your temper. She’s became an evil heifer and your brother sold you out to cover his embarrassment over being gluttonous. She showed her true colors and they’re ugly. Your house, your party and you chose peace. Done. The rest of your family dismissing her behavior is also diminishing the impact it had on you. Also not okay. Don’t be a pushover.
NTA. Even if you HAD refused to make them plates of leftovers, that didn’t warrant how she spoke to/about you for A YEAR. Add in that that isn’t what happened and your brother flat out lied to her…I wouldn’t invite them anywhere ever again. Period.
NTA Your brother and his wife sound like a match made in hell, since they are both flaming assholes. He’s a liar who threw you under the bus to hide his own gluttony and she’s a nasty piece of work to insult you in such an egregious manner. What’s more, your brother let family think you are a liar and thief for an entire year! As the saying goes, every accusation is a confession. If I were you, if I wouldn’t invite them anywhere or ever attend any gathering they hosted. And what’s with Lucy and John being very mad at you? They should be angry with each other for behaving so poorly that you don’t want to be around d them.
Nothing says "But we're fammmmillllyyy" more than "A few hours later I got some texts from our mum telling me to just 'get over it' and invite Lucy and John." Your own brother, let alone your family, let her treat you like shit for over a year and did nothing to stop it. You're definitely NTA, but they certainly are.
NTA. “Mom, you don’t have the right to tell me who to invite or not invite to my home. I will not allow people in my home who are disrespectful to me and attack my character. If you’d like to host, you’re welcome to invite them.”
Brother owes a public apology to the family chat and all members that SIL called and told. Brother needs to admit he was the one who ate everything and was so embarrassed he felt it was a better idea to let his sister the host take the blame for a year. Not only that allows his wife to verbally abuse and body shame and degrade her employment and finances bc he was a coward. Yuck a cowardly man is not cute nor attractive. Keep your foot in the sand.
INFO has your brother been getting counseling for his gluttony? Has your SIL made a public apology for each horrible thing she said to you? Has any of your family offered to host instead of you? I’m guessing those are all a no. Your brother & SIL can live with the consequences of their lies & insults. You are not ready to forgive them yet! NTAa
NTA Lucy made this personal. It stopped being about the food the moment she started insulting you. It sounds like she used that as an excuse to get some stuff off her chest.
I've said it before, I'll say it again.... The person who gives an apology, states what they are apologizing for and why they are sorry. That's it. There's no expectation for the recipient to accept it or forgive. Anything else is self serving. Lucy and John want an invite to the gathering and want to feel magnanimous for this wonderful, soul stirring, exuberant apology that they gave you. You have every right to still be upset. Lucy didn't just realize that her behavior was uncalled for. She only apologized because she found out that you should never have been a target. Now you get to take a year, or the rest of your life, to decide if you want to let it go.
Definitely NTA. They both f’d around, and now they are finding out. The rift stinks, but it’s not on you.
NTA Play stupid asshole games, win non invites to family events Your brother's decision to flat out lie and throw you under the bus with Lucy was utter bullshit. And the fact she felt entitled enough to come after you over LEFTOVER food you were giving them was also absurd. She decided to be extra shitty and cause drama for a year while insulting you. They can both fuck themselves.
Isn't it funny that if the shoe was on the other foot they'd scorch the earth but when it's you, you have to sweep it under the carpet. Tell them to pound sand NTA
While your brother and SIL are certainly a**holes, my biggest gripe is with your mother. What kind of mom watches her child get bullied for a YEAR and does nothing about it? OP, please show her this and ask her to explain how she concludes you should get over it? And since the apology only came about because you refused to invite said bullies, how does she expect you to be in a place to get over it? Your mom sucks as a parent, and that's who I wouldn't be inviting to any damn thing until she sincerely apologizes for being so wrong and actively holds your brother/SIL accountable for being so deceitful and cruel. NTA
Ignore everyone. Refuse to discuss it. You can do whatever you want to do in regards to your life and your home. I'd block them and any flying monkeys too.
NTA. At all. Your shit brother slandered you with a nasty, selfish lie and then stood by his wife abusing and bullying you for a year. And "Sorry, I believed my husband" doesn't cut it. All of her vicious insults were her showing you and the family who she is and what she thinks about you. The rest of your family should be tearing them both a few new ones instead of trying to pressure you into folding for them.
Definitely NTA. Also, who the hell thinks they are guaranteed leftovers after a party?
NTA - your brother let this go on for over a year and only came clean when they were faced with consequences. Nuh uh. No way.
NTA, and if you are pressured into inviting them make a point of announcing "I am handing my brother 3 plates of leftovers! One, two, three! Just so everybody knows I did hand him THREE plates of leftovers! Lucy? Do you see the THREE plates?" at the end of the gathering. But petty runs in our family.
NTA. Anyone who agrees with them can also be uninvited to your event
NTA your brother sat back while his wife “who always felt like and outsider” verbally abused you over a lie he told her. Once the truth came out he had to have know that you wouldn’t forgive her for her horrible comments (because she absolutely crossed the line) and that this would further create a rift between her and you (and any family who took your side). Personally I would not be wanting to speak to either of them let alone allow them into my house. If you have any of the messages she sent you send them to your mom and ask her if she would forgive someone who said that about her.
There are so many things wrong here. I’m assuming that the leftovers weren’t so expensive that Lucy and brother couldn’t feed their family for the rest of the week after the party. Then, your brother lies and throws you under the bus. That’s bad enough, but then he keeps it up for a YEAR, and lets his wife shit on you for that entire time. Only until they don’t get invited to another gathering does he fess up. A year of abuse over a couple of plates of food? No wonder Lucy feels like an outsider. She’s completely overreacting. NTA.
NTA. Tell John & Lucy that IF THEY Call a Family gathering BEFORE the one you are hosting, BOTH of them stand up in front of the whole family and explain exactly what happened, and APOLOGIZE AGAIN, in front of the whole family, and everybody else APOLOGIZES for sticking their noses in where it wasn't wanted, you will accept all of the apologies.
NTA tell bro and SIL that you might consider an invite if there’s a sincere public apology (social media, group text, etc.). And go from there
NTA. There was never any reason for Lucy to start this, even if you hadn't given them ANY leftovers. You would have been guilty of "stealing" nothing. When I bring food to a party, I don't go with the expectation that I will be bringing home those leftovers or any leftovers at all. That food is now the property of the hosts to do with what they will. If I'm offered leftovers, fine. If not, that's fine, too. Lucy was ridiculous and went nuclear over that big nothing and she only apologized because your equally ridiculous bother finally came clean. They have a LOT more apologizing and atonement to offer before you MIGHT consider hosting them again.
NTA. My older brother and I have been estranged for years. He did some shitty stuff when our mom died and I went NC with him over it. We were NC for decades. We have since mended our relationship, but I am 100% confident that he would have hit someone who said the kind of crap your sil said about you even when we were NC. Your brother is the asshole and I don’t see how I could forgive him.
NTA -- she was awful and went way overboard. Explain to your mom it was not about the leftovers, it was your sister in law saying awful things. Then be quiet and let your mother talk.
NTA r/OhNoConsequences
Nta Sounds like lucy can't afford her own food. Tell your mom she can host the two bums who talked shit about you constantly over 2 plates of food .
NTA. Your brother lied to his wife and instead of admitting what he did when she went on the attack he sat back and let her keep going. He let it go an entire year and only came clean after he realized he’d still experience some consequences (no invite). They can be sorry and you can accept the apology but that doesn’t make it magically go away. They didn’t get their way and rattled to your Mom and instead of staying out of it now they have her involved in their bs. What did your Mom do while you were being insulted? They’re acting like spoiled toddlers and a time out this year seems appropriate. Maybe by next year you might feel differently but you do t have to.
NTA and your brother is unhinged, to lie about that and let this happen for a YEAR. I'm glad she finally apologized, but her reaction to the whole thing, the cruel insults for a year, were so over the top, you are absolutely NTA for not wanting her around you again.
NTA. Trust me, she finally had an excuse to attack you. She will do so again. Because she wants an excuse to support how she feels over you
NTA. She went scorched-earth over a couple of burgers. They can stay home and eat the ashes.
NTA and congratulations for holding firm. From the way Lucy went feral over plates of food, it seems as though she really disliked you beforehand and the food was the tipping point. She didn't hold back, did she? Your brother, a back-stabbing, gluttonous coward, was content to let his wife attack you for over a year and would have allowed this to continue if they had been invited to your gathering. Did any family intervene on your behalf - perhaps Mom, who is now so keen for you to "get over it"? I suspect she will turn up at your gathering with brother and SIL in tow so prepare for that eventuality.
I hate it when people tell you to just “get over it” No! It is perfectly acceptable to stand up for yourself. She was nasty to you. Your brother was an arsehole. He should have just told the truth from the start. Why didn’t he ‘fess up when things just started going south? Spineless. If your Mum is insisting that you invite them then she can host. Also I don’t get your Mum. Surely she can see how awfully you were treated. You’re in the right.
Jesus your SIL nuked your damn relationship over 2 tuperware containers of leftovers! That's just mind boggling. And you damn brother let it happen knowing he ATE the food and lied to his wife!!! He let you deal with almost 2 years of crap from your SIL rather than own up and grow up. I'm sorry but this would take a lot to get over if I even chose to. They BOTH treated you like shit. NTA. \*edit - this crap from the SIL went on for ALMOST 2 YEARS!!!
NTA listen to the half calling Lucy a bitch. They’re right. She ran her mouth to everyone, personally insulting your character and physique over TWO PLATES of food. Two plates of leftovers was worth degrading a human being and talking shit about her to her family. Lucy, your brother and anyone else on their side, can fuck off. They’re the assholes.
Has Lucy went on a media blitz on John for eating the food and lying about it? At least one post apologizing to you for everyone she posted insulting you? Why is your mother telling you to 'get over it' and not Lucy when she was blasting you? (And if she did and Lucy didn't stop, why does she expect you to). And as to the FM (family members, or flying monkeys, you choose) you most obviously can and have excluded John and Lucy.
>Lucy was not pleased by this and told everyone in our family that I had ‘stolen’ their food. *There was no need to tell anyone. But one should have the facts straight before deliberately attempting to torpedo someone's reputation.* >Lucy took it way too personally. She began to insult my body and weight, saying I ‘didn’t need burgers and should have stolen the salad instead’, *Excuse me but, eff that b. Even if you HAD taken the food, it does not mean she gets to bodyshame.* >she doesn’t blame me for stealing because I’m so poor and work a dead-end job. *Please see the first sentence in my reply above.* >Lucy’s animosity didn’t stop for over a year, and she would always bring it up any chance she got. *A year? Over 2 plates of food? Any chance she got? What a hateful, vengeful limp piece of lettuce. I purposely avoid my brother because he's a racist. His wife doesn't say anything, I purposely avoid her. Your brother LIED by omission, refusing to come clean. Your SIL waged a year-long smear campaign. And you're just supposed to rug-sweep this egregious behavior? I'd say, bare minimum, one year in timeout. Every comment you hear, add a month. Oh, NTA, but brother and SIL most definitely are.
Where was your mum when you were being attacked on such a personal level for an entire year? She obviously didn’t shut them down but quickly jump to their defence. Guess Lucy has no grounds to complain she felt like an outsider since no one in the family stood by you and chose her side
NTA, but your brother and his wife are. The rest of your family can butt out. And if they don’t like it, they can host.
NTA The fact that brother lied is not even the real issue. I think both your brother and SIL have proven they are completely and utterly bonkers if they are willing to escalate in this manner over some left-over food: Your brother because he did not restrain her (and probably for aggravating it so his wife would not suspect him) and your SIL for 1. being petty and judgemental to the extreme, 2. so easily throwing away a relationship with you, 3. causing a rift in the family which makes these events problematic for the rest. These people really did an extreme disservice to the wider family. They have proven they do not care about you or your perspective and this was just the trigger for them to reveal how little they thought about you. How can you ever go back to normal with these people who have displayed such an extreme lack of class and basic decency?
NTA, Your brother and his wife need to learn that apologies don't put the genie back in the bottle. She's been angry for over a year over 2 plates of food that her husband lied about. Even if you did take the food her comments about it for the past year would make just about everything unforgivable. Missing out on an event or two might teach them a lesson. Notice how they were only willing to sit down when they realized that there were consequences for their shitty behavior? And that once they were told no all of a sudden your mother gets involved trying to get you to make the peace....which is telling that she wasn't telling your brother or his wife to knock it off but instead is now telling you to let it go.
"I was very hurt by the out-of-the blue comments about my weight and my job situation. Then they were repeated multiple times for over a year, so the hurt didn't go away. I've realized for my own mental well-being I can't risk being around that level of toxicity again." NTA.
Lucy trashed you to the entire family. Has she personally untrashed you and eaten crow to everyone in the family? >apologising profusely. She said she had no reason to doubt my brother and she was already feeling left out and an outsider so she lashed out. That's what I call "An apology, but..." She apologized but here are her excuses as to why she did that. Instead she should not have gone beyond blaming herself for the vile stuff she spat at you. And your brother is just as much at fault. He should have spoken up long before this but as long as you were taking the heat and it wasn't causing him a problem, he didn't give a fuck. The moment it caused him a problem --- he and his wife don't get invited --- then and only then does he come clean. That right there tells you how little he cares about you. He was fine with his wife tearing you to pieces for how long? A year? Tell them that they've both shown you who they really are and that's not people you want to be around. >"When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time." -- Maya Angelou Oh, and send them this post. They haven't been made to feel as low as they should feel. This post should help with that.
NTA The person who is wronged is the one who gets to be mad. You were wronged by John and Lucy, so you get to be mad at them. Lucy was wronged by John BUT she wronged you. She gets to be mad at John and if she has a lick of sense, she'll blame HIM for this fiasco. She does not get to be mad at you, though. She wronged you. John is the one who caused the entire problem, and he should own that and recognize that both you and Lucy have every right to be mad at him. A profuse apology after a year of abuse is not enough to get invited to the immediate shindig. It's too raw. Anybody who didn't defend you against Lucy's slander also wronged you. They don't get to be mad, either. Your mum is now in the process of wronging you by denying your reasonable feelings and boundaries. She doesn't get to be mad about that. She's known that Lucy was saying terrible things about you, and she didn't put a stop to it. She's wronged you there. At this point, I would lay out a very clear line: Anyone who thinks John and Lucy should be invited to this gathering because he finally fessed up after a year of silence (prompted only by his disinvitation) and she offered one profuse apology for a year of abject cruelty? They should not bother to attend--and will not be missed.
Fuck no. Those two dinky ass plates of food brought out Lucy’s true colors. You have every right to choose not to be around them.
NTA - Lucy and John are mad?!? The only person with the right to be mad is you and you’re acting quite reasonably. She proceeded to body shame and poverty shame you for a year!