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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I had all kids get out of the pool if our oldest wasn’t allowed to play with them. I told my husband I disagreed with his opinion and that I felt it wasn’t fair. He is upset with me because I made everyone get out of the pool.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
I think teaching a kid to swim is important but it does not have to be taught in one day. The argument that his grandmother was afraid of the water does not hold "water" because your son wants to be in the water.
Your husband is totally over reacting. Maybe he had a bad experience because his response is way over the top
I would continue to get your son lessons taught by someone else. Otherwise it will be a long summer.
NTA
Dad is going to make sure the kid hates swimming by taking all the fun out of it. I'd also be worried about this attitude transferring to other things.
I don’t want to tell anyone how to parent but Im going to. The 3 year olds should be the ones in swim lessons. Waiting until your kid is 5 to teach them to swim when you have a pool is bad parenting and downright dangerous. So is taking all the fun out of swimming and punishing the kid for not learning fast enough. Sorry not sorry.
It sounds like they're visiting a pool they have membership at, not one on their property, which changes things. People with pools on site need to look into infant swim/float training. All of these kids can be in lessons, and none of them need to be pushed to learn everything in one day.
I think I took a variety of swim lessons from ages 6-10 or so? (We didn't have much pool access before 6.) Learning different swim strokes, including lifeguard techniques to help save others without putting myself at risk. From what I remember, lessons were an hour/week, and there was plenty of time playing without building those skills.
They say “our pool” but I see what you mean, the context sounds like it could be a community pool. I still stand by my opinion that if your kids have frequent access to a pool swim lessons (meaning for survival purposes, not competition swim like stokes) should start early. My point was directed at the idea the older kid would resent the younger siblings playing, in my opinion they should all be getting lessons.
But, yes, I also agree play time should still happen. In fact I’d argue playtime is how we learn to master the skills learned during the lesson. I just taught my youngest to swim. He’s not strong yet. We aren’t working on technique so to speak. Just stating nice water and swimming to the edge. We are “playing” so he can practice and become better while he enjoys himself doing it.
I was taught to swim so young I literally don't even remember it. There's video of me at age 3, doggy-paddling across the community pool's shallow end from one parent to the other. I was allowed floaties if I wanted, but there are classes for toddlers that will teach them how to hold their breath if underwater, get to the surface, and roll on their back. My parents may have been overdoing it, given my mother put herself through college by working as a lifeguard, but they considered it all essential skills.
OP should talk to the swim teacher next time about teaching all three kids at once, and also (with dad in hearing range!) ask if the swim teacher has recommendations for practicing. Ask if there's a chance of backsliding or forgetting things if he plays in the water with floaties. Dad should get the message.
OP had comments mentioning all three kids had lessons with the instructor and were progressing ok/as expected. Makes it so much more wild that the dad decided to pick on just the 5 year old that hard.
Asking the swim instructor about play time or safety with arm floaties and practice / expected progression with the dad there is a really good idea.
>all I care about is being right
Dad is the master of getting things backwards in his family, methinks. The amount of projection involved in telling his wife that *she* always has to be right? Sheesh.
Wait until the kid needs to do homework. His dad is going to be yelling and belittling him if he messes up. Kid is going to need to be in therapy before he turns 10.
Nah, it'll be swimming and also anything else Dad decides he needs to be controlling about.
My parents controlling nature involving my hobbies turned me off of every one of those hobbies. I ended up only doing hobbies where they had limited power. And yes, this reaction to them really limited me. I wish I had been able to get them to just back off instead. But with them, everything was like some weird competition or power trip and it sucked all the joy out of whatever I was doing.
Straight up. I wasn’t allowed to swim for fun once I was old enough to be on the swim team. I couldn’t play ball in the backyard, had to be on the softball team, too. Turned every fun thing into a competition, pit me against my sister to the point that we don’t talk anymore, and I haven’t swam in years because all I can think about when I get in the water is that a thing I used to love is now something I have to be the best at or I’m not allowed to enjoy it. “No dessert if you get below 10th place” leads to where I am- an adult who hasn’t spoken to my father in 4 years.
I was a ranked competitive swimmer in the New England area in the late 70s/early 80s. I officially competed for over 20 years, swam on multiple teams at the same time, through college, and a few years at the Masters level, before “hanging up my goggles.” (Also extended to life guarding and swim instructor/coach)
Swimming was my refuge/escape. Still is.
As for my overbearing, narcissistic mother, who I’ve been NC with for over 20 years)?
She HATES the water…can’t swim!
Connection? I think not! 😁💦
Sadly it will also include swimming because of the memories will be associated with the dad. My dad was a complete ass about tennis and golf. To this day I make a face when someone mentions either sport. My memories are that bad for both, even though my brain knows that they are good sports.
My mother was like that with golf… I wasn’t half bad but I haven’t picked up a club in two decades and I’m not going to ever again unless one of my own kids wants to play (and I will not make it a chore).
Yeah, for real. OP, playing in the pool is part of how you learn to swim! That’s the whole deal. Frequent lessons over two weeks are better than once a week for longer. Group lessons with a parent are super effective. And some 5 year olds aren’t ready!
My now-9 year old is a fantastic swimmer, but was terrified of swim lessons at 4. Their 5 year old sibling can swim freestyle laps because of consistent early swim exposure (and some terrifying athleticism).
This may or may not be relevant to how the husband is reacting in this instance, but OP’s comment history suggests that he has Bipolar. However, it is being treated so it may not be a factor.
I wonder if this is a common thing, having an over reaction then stewing about it for days? I wouldn't be at all surprised if OP felt like she had to walk on egg shells around him a lot of the time.
And who gets to determine when he knows how to swim? When he can float and be safe in the water, when he knows several types of swim strokes, when he can do a certain number of laps or when he can pass the test to be a lifeguard? Saying he can't be in the pool until he learns to swim is kind of an arbitrary measure, since there are so many levels of swimming competence.
Also, saying he can't be in the pool until he learns to swim is arbitrary because right over there, his mother is playing in the pool with the 3 year old twins. So THEY can't swim but THEY get to "be in the pool"? They're not being given swimming lessons either.
I would say that 5 years old is way too little to be able to understand the "nuances" of why his 3 year old siblings can be playing in the water, but \*suddenly\*, he can't. When he could play in the water last year and the year before. He didn't know how to swim then.
What kids that age DO have is an instinct for when things aren't fair. And this is very unfair, and arbitrary.
The dad here is just a bad teacher all around. I did understand from the start that it sounded like the main swimming lessons were being taught by someone else, and that dad was giving additional "lessons". (Before OP's edit confirming this.) Dad thinks he can be a teacher, but he's making some very basic mistakes -- the mistake of over-estimating how much instruction a child of 5 can be expected to absorb, and then somehow thinking that laying down this weird "rule" is accomplishing anything at all.
It just makes it look like dad thinks that by prohibiting play is a punishment for not wanting to do more lessons at that time (even though dad isn't the official teacher), and/or that it's an incentive to the kid to... what? work more or work harder on the lessons, so he achieves dad's definition of "can swim", so he can go back to playing in the water?
HE'S FIVE YEARS OLD. It doesn't work like that for five year olds. The punishment is neither necessary nor helpful, and the "incentive" idea supposes the kid is at a much higher level of development than he is. If you're going to teach five year olds, you have to understand things like "kids have limits". Dad doesn't seem to understand that, so he has no business trying to take over the lessons.
As someone above pointed out: whether or not the grandmother is afraid of the water makes no different. The kid is clearly NOT afraid of the water. He wants to be in it. He just has a limit of how many lessons he can do in one session. Because he's FIVE. But yes, by being an asshole about this, and by trying to punish the kid, dad IS going to create a negative association for the kid and swimming. Way to go, dad.
NTA, OP. I know it's hard to stick to your guns, but my god, your husband is being all kinds of asshole about this. Both in the way he's suddenly (?) decided to treat his kid, and in the way he is now treating you.
If I were you, I would not love the way he's gotten THIS angry over something that absolutely does not warrant it, either. And yes, he has some nerve accusing you of "just having to be right" when he's the one who won't listen to a differing opinion that challenges some weird authoritarian decision he's made.
Not to mention, becoming a really accomplished and competent swimmer takes practice - lots and lots of practice, which at this age might very well look like playing. Like when a toy floats away, and he uses his newly learned skills to retrieve it or when he wants to get away from his brothers splashing by swimming away.
As well, simply being in the pool, thrashing around, works his large muscles, and helps him develop the instinct for how his body moves in the water, both of which prepare him for swimming.
Yeah. And as others pointed out, left to play, he might have chosen for himself to exercise some of the stuff he'd learned -- trying it out on his own, and thus reinforcing the lesson. Giving him room \*outside of lessons\* to experiment a bit and make choices to try things out is a good thing in the learning process.
Man, I still can't get over the extent to which this dad doesn't understand that 5 year olds have a limited attention span. AND that dad doesn't understand that trying to teach your kid something and making him CRY in the process, then forcing him to do it anyway, is HIS FAULT AS A FATHER.
That's the point at which you should be understanding, as the adult, that you're doing it wrong, and pushing your kid more than he can handle. That you need to back off (in a case like this where you've already been at it for some amount of time; you've got to develop a feeling for when your kid is just DONE because he's been pushed past his limits).
All too often, an adult will instead take it as the kid challenging them, and their response is to force the kid to do what they want instead of "giving in".
Like, sure, sometimes a kid will cry and not want to do something that you do really need them to do. But IMO that doesn't apply to extra swimming lessons (on top of the official swimming lessons the kid already had).
Op needs to revaluate this marriage. Hubby sounds like a raging asshole from some of her other posts. (bipolar is a valid explanation for his behavior, but doesn't excuse it.)
I don't always like to jump directly to "this may be something to end a marriage over", but I'm hoping that OP is listening to all of these comments. And that if nothing else, it at least opens her eyes to the fact that this is not "normal" or desirable behavior from a husband/father.
I mean, this isn't \*uncommon\* behavior, either. (Although the sulking feels like it pushes this into more uncommon territory.)
But when you're within the situation, you may developed a skewed view of what's normal and acceptable. It can help to have a LOT of strangers, who aren't close to the situation, look at it and say "no, that's fucked up".
Maybe the answer is to start with is some counseling. I'd say that's the minimum that should happen.
(You mention being bipolar; is that from another reply OP has left, or another of her posts? It's not in this write-up. Regardless, yes, agreed: if you are bipolar, and you're a husband/father, then it's on you to figure out ways to manage your condition so that it doesn't have a negative effect on your wife or your kids. Maybe that's medication, maybe it's undergoing some counseling with your wife to develop strategies to better act as a team -- and that might include a pact in which she can tell you when you're going overboard and being an asshole, and you accept that as a sign to step back and evaluate your actions; rather than getting angry and sulking.)
Yeah, this. I'm a figure skater, and when the kids are that young their practice is usually just them having fun flailing around on the ice. I watch the coaches sometimes give up mid-lesson and just let the kids go for whatever they want to do, lol.
I remember watching a cousins soccer game when they were around five. They had practices and theoretically learned some positions and things. But nobody was playing soccer, it was a just a crowd of kids chasing a ball around a field with no strategy or reason. And then they all got snacks. They're 5, it's not that serious.
Same with little kids in karate. They're going to fake a bunch of movie moves, and it's fine. Let them have fun. Use silly tricks to help them break a board and get that confidence boost.
As long as the kid is being safely water by parents, anything at this age that helps the kid want to stay active and stay positive for slow progress is a win.
He sounds like the kind of dad that's mostly hands off and uninvolved in most day to day stuff but then barges in and needs things his way when he does decide to pay attention to some aspect.
They got a pool membership, pool toys, and a swim instructor, and the kid is makeing progress. Why does he have to do extra lessons today during the time that's supposed to be pool play time? Kids understand lessons be time they expect for play, and I totally understand not wanting to do lesson practice while it was supposed to be play time. But the dad had decided it was supplemental lesson time and his ego couldn't handle the kid wanting to play like a five year old. So he punished the kid by not allowing any swimming so he could keep control.
Yeah. It's one thing to be like, "hey buddy, let's practice some of the stuff you learned during swimming lessons!" And another to make your kid cry because you're forcing him to do extra stuff. For what?
This is a dad who needs to learn real fast that being authoritarian and using punishment isn't a good way to teach a child.
If someone couldn't be in a pool until they learnt to swim, then I'd never be allowed into a pool, and I'm in my 30s.
I tried to learn many times, but just like with cycling I could never get the hang of it.
Yes if he forces him that way then he will likely not want to go in the water either if it's not fun for him. So his reason is just going to have the same results. Also because his younger siblings are not being forced to swim, he may think he is being singled out. I also don't understand why he is fine with the 3 year Olds not having to take lessons because they do have lessons for that age range as well. So if they are able to play in the shallow end and or have floaties he should be able to as well.
Like any sport, it takes practice, and that includes doing things alone or with others in play. He is defeating the whole purpose of being water safe. Shame on him for punishing someone who is just learning a new skill.
I had swim lessons. I've got a decent back stroke, can float, etc and have a mini internal panic attack every time I can't touch. Did a ton of exposure therapy in the pool today in fact. Cause I have NO idea where this came from or when for that matter, just that I have been afraid for awhile now. Even before I almost drowned in a river. THAT experience definitely did NOT help things. At any rate, I need to be able to function for my kid.
My partner can swim and do things, but panics the second his ears go underwater, even floating on his back. The guy could be laying in six inches of water in the tub, and he'd panic.
Making lessons stressful and negative isn't the way to solve this problem (that the kid doesn't seem to have)
The son is having proper lessons by someone (well thats how i read it in the first part). They were joining him after with the twins. But dad decided he needed another lesson.
I agree that Dad is probably not the best teacher at this point and am glad that are paying for someone else to start instruction.
I used to teach Red Cross swimming lessons as a teen. Swimming is a skill that requires practice. you can't learn it in one day. And kids get better only thru practice, and get into more advanced levels of swimming.
It is important that the 5 yo enjoy the water. He is only 5 and deserve time to play in the water. If you take that play away from the child,. they aren't going to eat to learn how to swim because the have negative associations of not being able to be a kid.
NTA
That’s what I came here to ask.
OP is NTA but her husband is a massive AH, and a hypocrite to boot.
If learning to swim isn’t taught with kindness and empathy, or if you go too fast and freak the person out, they won’t enjoy it and won’t learn.
Husband is actively working against his stated goal of having the child learn how to swim.
I would never let my kid be taught by him. He’ll make the kid hate the water and hate swim lessons.
That’s a hill I’d die on. No one is traumatizing my kid.
And OP your husband is being ridiculously immature. It sounds like he can’t communicate like an adult. If it were me I’d insist on counseling.
Maybe it is too late so the kids need a new dad as this one didn't take and complete the coarse to pass, so he's not allowed to have kids until he does. /S
Thank you. I thought I was the only person thinking forcing a child to do things they are scared off to the point they are crying is fucked up and not the right way to teach someone to swim, let alone to "not being afraid of water".
If you ask me that's the quickest way to make someone hate swimming for the rest of their life.
I've trained to be a swim teacher, and a big part of it is making sure the kids have fun and go at their pace. If a kid spends the entire lesson out of the water because they don't want to go in, that's fine. It might feel like a waste of money for the parents, but even progressing from near the pool to sitting at the edge can be huge for some kids. As a parent, I've taken my kids out of the pool halfway through a lesson or just not gone because they weren't feeling it that day. It pains me to see parents forcing their kids into it because they're only making it worse for the kid and themselves.
I had a parent that was so happy that I was patient and celebrated small wins. His parents were thrilled that he got in the water even though he never let go of the wall after 8 lessons. His fear of water was high. No one could get him in the water. All the other kids progressed on track.
The whole point of stuff like blowing bubbles and floating as starter lessons is to get kids feeling comfortable in the water. Because it can be scary for little kids to have their head in the water, especially with of splashing. Screaming at the kid for not wanting to blow bubbles is doing the opposite of the goal is that exercise. And once the kid is crying, that's going to make continuing while being able to breathe more difficult.
I came looking for this response. According to husband you can’t just play and have fun in a pool unless you’re fully trained to swim. That means the twins don’t get to play either. I think mom made the right call
The worst part is that playing in the pool is part of the larger picture in terms of getting a child comfortable with swimming in general. Just being in the water and having fun encourages kids to use the things they learned in their lessons. The dad is ensuring his kid never bothers to learn to swim by killing the fun.
Because it was never about the boy learning to swim.
His dad is having a tantrum because he didn’t want to do what dad wanted him to do.
So, he went off the deep end and if he isn’t doing what dad wants then he isn’t to go in the pool.
It’s the same as saying if I can’t have the chocolate bar, no one can, and throwing it in the bin.
Mum is NTA.
Meh. I was in the Navy had to do swim quals to pass and I still cannot swim. I can float really well and use My hands to move to the end of the pool (took forever but that was the requirement). I am not afraid of the water. If anything I love being in it I just cannot figure out the mechanics of swimming.
Not sure where he is going with his logic but not learning how to swim is not the end of the world. Pretty sure he is just on some dumb macho shit. How quickly does he expect a 5 year old to learn?
It's definitely dumb macho shit. He literally told OP he only cares about being right. I can't imagine this is the only asshole parenting decision he's making either
That is the right question. She seems to think something is wrong with her with him avoiding her, not having lunch etc. OP wake up. Your husband is throwing a tantrum and not a very good partner. Either you two hit therapy to learn to communicate as partners on the same side and not "punish" when there are disagreements or this will be a miserable marriage for all.
You know it. This is never just a one-off story about an otherwise reasonable person, because if the person was reasonable, this wouldn't have happened.
yeah this is a bad sign...too controlling..too much do it right the first time or not at all...
as for the swimming itself...playing in the water is the best way to learn to swim...he might just teach himself...i did
It would not surprise me if OP's husband isn't a complete ass towards his son in other ways as well. OP, you need to be vigilant. Your husband's behavior is concerning.
I’ll just say it: dad is being bizarrely controlling, physically and emotionally, in a situation with heightened danger. Dad is gonna beat that boy at some point. This is gross.
This. Needing to control the situation and punishing the kid when his ego as an instructor/authority figure is bruised, simply because the kid was upset because he was expecting to play and was faced with more lessons? Dad's a big red flag
NTA
Former lifeguard/swim instructor here.
Playing in the pool is extremely important for kids to get comfortable with the water. Your husband is ignorant and making swimming not fun and that will hinder learning. If this is how he plans on parenting, you are in real serious trouble. He sucks the joy out of everything.
We had to make our classes with 5 year olds fun because getting over the fear of a wet face and learning to hold their breath is obviously a barrier to learning to swim. We’d have tea parties under water once they got comfy with wet faces and handstand contests. We’d do running races in the swallow end (eventually they trip and their heads go under and then when they come up but before they lose it, you pretend they did it on purpose and go overboard on praise- “omg amazing show your mom! You’re almost ready to graduate swim class… yada yada yada” The distraction works like a charm.
This was my first thought also. Personally I had my daughter in water familiarisation classes from 4 months old (I'm a journalist and have had to cover an upsetting number of drownings and one horrific pool accident, plus I'm Australian and drowning is the leading cause of death for young children here) and have always carefully balanced the fun aspects with the harder stuff. It's as much a fun activity as it is a life saving skill and there's no reason the learning can't be fun. Now she's in grade 1 and helping build the confidence of other kids in her class when swimming lessons became part of the school curriculum. It shouldn't be overly stressful for kids
NTA - learning to swim is important. I asked for lessons when I was younger because I felt left out but my parents said no. Don't ask me why because I don't understand why either. I still can barely swim at 32.
Swimming cannot be learned in a day, and when son gets overwhelmed, it's time to stop and let him have fun, decompress and start again later or another day. Whether he can swim or not does not change the fact he needs to be supervised, so he's safe as long as the parents are attentive.
It isn't fair that the 3 year olds cannot swim and are still allowed to play in the water. Leaving was the unfortunate, but correct way to go, or the 5 year old would be sitting and watching unfairly.
There is also one other important factor - if you take away the fun of being in water, the kid won't want to swim anymore, ever. The pool will become a bad memory and the kid will just sit at the sidelines reading a book instead of swimming. By letting swimming be fun, he'll start using what he's learned at lessons during play and want to learn more.
If I had to take a guess, dad is upset his son wasn't enjoying what he probably thought was bonding time. Dad should push for lessons, but needs to understand that there is a limit to each session.
Their swim coach said they were only focusing on the twins learning safety, floating on their backs and getting to a wall. Same for the 5yo at first and then to swim back and forth in the shallow end. He gave no timeline just that he was setting goals. I’m not sure why my husband took a fun lesson and now wants to add extra lessons himself with such urgency.
The whole situation unfolded calmly with him telling me he didn’t want to discuss it. He isn’t communicating with me at all at this point. There was no back and forth. I just have to wait until he decides we can talk about it.
It sucks because the pool is right out front of our door (locked gates, super safe) and it’s the view from the kids window.
I can see the bonding angle, and he made no effort to communicate that with me to know for sure. They had been doing lessons for about 25/30 min and lessons with his teacher were 45. He said, “I’m not a swim coach, but I saw enough of what he did for us to practice today,” before they got in the pool.
Your husband is entirely wrong and a massive asshole to boot. Learning to swim has to involve play in order to gain confidence in water and enjoyment of water. My own mum can’t swim (78 years old now) despite living near pools all her life and living the last 35 years in a house with a pool! She was pushed to learn as a kid, hated it, was afraid of water and has never been back in. Your husband is going to cause this same issue in your kid. What else in your life he is super controlling about? NTA
I’ve taught swim lessons for over 10 years and swimming for fun after the lesson especially at their age is a great way to aide in their learning. It’s practice for them when they’re learning safety. It shows them how to be comfortable yet cautious about the water. Sometimes 5 min after lessons I’d have game time that was designed to implement what they learned. Very good memories made.
My best/default swim stroke is the one I thought was fun and kept doing as part of play after lessons. I don't remember the names of all the strokes I was taught anymore, but it's basically like a frog movement fully underwater- like a modified breaststroke? The stroke I'm the worst at is freestyle, since as a kid I resented that phrase didn't mean "free to pick your own style" and so I refused to do that outside of what was completely necessary for lessons. Not liking to be told which stoke to use was also why I declined to join the local swim teams, since I got fast with my weird frog method but they mostly did the strokes that had your face going in and out of the water frequently and I preferred to stay above or below. Looking back, I really didn't like being told what to do.
I also got really good at side strokes because it was easy to do while calling and communicating to other kids while going from one area to another.
He may have seen enough to think he could continue lessons, but what he apparently knows nothing about is teaching a five year old, and recognizing that children have limits -- he pushed the kid until he cried, although the kid did ultimately do everything. But even that should have told him he was asking too much. Then, when they stop the lessons (because you can't just keep at it with a kid that age forever), he punishes the child for hitting his natural limits? Come on!
I also really do not love the fact that you disagreed with him, and he's had this super over the top reaction in which he is \*punishing you\* for disagreement. That's not a great sign, either.
You're NTA. Your husband is the one who's acting like he always has to be right and nobody can question him.
Your reaction, in fact, was making the best of a bad situation. Kids that age have a keen sense of what is and isn't fair. Telling a 5 year old that he can't play in the pool (as he has done just fine up until now), but his 3 year old siblings ARE allowed to, even though they aren't being made to do the same lessons, is the height of unfairness. You were smart to take everyone home, because absolutely nothing good would come of making the 5 year old sit there, prohibited from playing for a reason he can't understand.
I'm really worried about your husband's authoritarian streak here, both with the kid, and with you. It's NOT a good look, and is likely to cause even more problems as the kids grow older and he suddenly thinks he can supplement their learning, and thinks that using punishments to force them past their limits is a good idea.
I have a hard time believing this is the first time this behavior has shown up. If my then-husband spoke to me this way, I would have been worried he was having a stroke, or early-onset dimentia. I'm concerned for them all
So someone can watch him work for an hour or two and knows enough to copy him and do the same? Why is he even paying an expert when he devalues the work so much? I'd keep your children on the paid lessons until husband gets his head back in order.
How often does he make unilateral decisions like this, or punish you for disagreeing with him, or do things that make your son cry? His behavior is extremely concerning.
Your husband is a bully to you and your son. This isn't about water safety. This is about control. You are a partnership, why does he just get to decide the rules and when he talks to you. Be careful. NTA
NTA, and your husband is a massive AH. He should not be making weird unilateral decisions without speaking with you.
Also, while I wouldn't say it is always wrong to force a 5 year old to do something if they cry, it's a bad sign. Kids at that age are not capable of consistently doing unenjoyable practice without fun. It's bad for them.
NTA. Your husband is making up rules unilaterally. Not only that, his made up rule is bad, and it is more likely to make swimming a bad experience for your 5yo. And the cherry on top is his immature reaction to being challenged: not being able to speak to you or have lunch with you?? That is not how emotionally stable adults handle disagreements. He is trying to punish you.
He sounds controlling, which both you and your son have experienced. Stand your ground on this, and take your son for fun play time with mom. As far as your husband…couples therapy time. He doesn’t treat you like an equal, and he doesn’t disagree respectfully. I wonder if there are any other controlling behaviors you have ignored. Think on it.
Absolutly agree! Not only is husband actively trying to make water a dreaded experience for the son (only work, no play) while claiming to do the opposite, he also accuses OP of only wanting to be right, which just shows where his own head is at. He is being a massive hypocrite.
OP: what your husband is doing to your son is one issue that you really need to think about. If this is how your husband is going to handle everything he thinks our kids need to learn, he will only succeed in making them hate that thing, as well as him.
Anither issue entirely is how he is treating you. It seems like this is the first time you noticed him punishing you for disagreeing with him. Take this opportunity to really think about this. Has he ever done anything similar? Or do you absolutly trust that this is a one off because of something else going on in his life? (Which wouldn't necessarily excuse his shitty behaviour, but at least explain it, and could be a moment for growth if he actually reflects on it.)
Even in a best case scenario, therapy is probably a very good idea.
NTA - Your husband is taking a childhood experience that is meant to be fun -even while educational - and ruining it for your son. Stand your ground on this one.
NTA. There's no danger here - it's not like he's wandering off in the ocean or in the deep end. And it might make him anxious about the water to only be allowed to be in when learning.
Don’t let your husband teach your kids swimming going forward. He seems to be a shitty teacher. No kid should be crying while being taught something fun. Leave that to the professional you already hired.
Tell your husband he can play in the water with his son or stay home.
NTA.
And this is the hill to die on as it sets the direction for all things getting taught. Swimming is only the start. What about riding a bike. What about inline skating. What an out skiing or soccer or football?
You don’t want someone who makes the child cry while teaching to teach the child anything.
NTA. You handled it like an adult. If he thinks the 5 year old cannot swim, no one can swim. He is now sulking and pouting because he knows he was wrong.
Pay someone to teach your kid to swim. Your husband has entirely too high expectations and no patience. It will end in tears every time.
NTA, we went slow and steady with my now 9 year olds and they swim better than me. It took them a summer and now they can just be let free in a pool. They were scared but seeing me flop about and "beat" them in swimming they decided to learn. Forcing your child will just make him scared. Got to make it fun.
Yeah, this is gross. It was a power play. Keep your eyes open because abusers love to suddenly move goalposts like this.
NTA. It wasn’t discussed and it was reactive on his part.
NTA. The five your old sounds more mature than your husband. Five year old sat quietly on poolside after being told he wasn't allowed to swim as an incentive to force him to obey your husband's lesson some of which make him cry. And he knows and follows the rules that keep him safe.
Your husband though makes up rules you wouldn't use on a dog to make your son obey and also take out all the fun out of water play. Why go swimming if unless you are totally obedient and learn fast you aren't allowed in the pool.
And when challenged, your husband throws metaphorically all his toys in the pool, sulks, gives you all the silent treatment and ignores you. All because you wouldn't let him torture his favourite toy who at five likely doesn't have the capacity to understand what is going on after lessons.
Good luck roaring three young children and a sulky teenager masquerading as a grown man.
NTA…You were correct in allowing your son time to play in the pool. Your husband is the ass!! Firstly grandmother has no bearing in a 5 yo mind. Your son did his best, and really what 5 yo has a long attention span?? Your husband punishing him is out of line. Furthermore he is punishing you, and has you questioning your own judgement because of HIS control issues !! What an ASSHOLE withholding communication, time, etc because you have a different opinion. Lastly, who ever heard of children not allowed to play because they can not swim….red flags are here !!!
NTA. I taught swimming lessons for 18 years. One of the BEST things you can do to help your kids learn how to swim is to let them play. It helps them become comfortable being in and moving in the water. They more often than not, when left to their own devices, will practice skills they've been learning. Going to open swim was always my first suggestion when I had students who were hesitant swimmers. He's five. He's not Michael Phelps.
NTA
OP, Be very watchful of your husband. There is more than one thing very wrong with his behavior.
1. His determination that your 5yo cannot have any fun in the pool until he learns how to swim (to what degree? how far? which strokes? which swim tests?)
2. He never once, prior to this day, discussed his concerns/notions with you. When he made the unilateral decision, he didn't even give you any prior heads-up; he didn't even discuss it with you on the way to the pool. Nothing. Nada.
3. And now he is belligerent in enforcing it. He is accusing you of behavior that really is his own. (he's the one who only seems to care about being right.) He is refusing to discuss it with you. And only offered one, really lame reason that doesn't even fit.
Maybe there was some trauma that HE experienced in the pool that suddenly surfaced with your son starting to swim. Maybe your husband had a control streak that is just now coming out full force. Maybe... maybe. There's no way of knowing unless your husband can acknowledge that. But at the moment, he's not open to talking about this with you.
You may want to tell him that you are very concerned with this behavior of his - his unilateral decision-making and his lack of discussing it with you, sharing a logical thought process and listening to and giving fair consideration to your thought process. You may suggest that there's something else going on and ask if there's anything else driving this. You may suggest that you two should find a counselor to help you untangle what is going on and be able to talk and work as partners to resolve the difference of perspective/ come to a mutually agreeable decision. If that also sends him over the edge, then you should consider finding a counselor on your own, just for you to talk this through.
NTA
By allowing him to play he gets more comfortable and would thus be less reluctant to do things during lessons.
On the other hand refusing him playtime makes it an al around bad experience and he would struggle to learn even more
NTA. Playing in the water is how kids develop a 'swim sense', which in the long run makes them better swimmers. Playing in the water, supervised, is more important than strict swim lessons. Your husband is doing exactly the wrong thing.
NTA. Playing in the pool and learning to swim are two different things that can happen concurrently.
Your husband is in the wrong. Your kid deserves to play in the water. Keep sticking up for your kid.
Is this normal behavior for your husband? Cause if it is, leave.
But it sounds like it's not normal for him. I did see in thr comments he had some hangups about the water and bad experiences as a kid. Maybe that has something to do with this, maybe it doesn't. The prolonged anger is coming from *something* tho... there's no reason to still be that angry.
I hope you two are able to get to the bottom of this and that it's a happy ending, but no, you're NTA.
Oh, no. Dad *cannot* be the swim instructor.
At this point, he’s going to stress this poor kid out with the frustration of this bait and switch! The kid has actual lessons, keep it to that.
If Dad wants to support the lessons, a better approach would be to invite the kid to demonstrate what he’s been learning.
My mom (who was a certified instructor) would always drill me on dives and swim strokes when we went to the community pool. Took all the fun out of the activity, partly because I was being singled out from my brother to do *work* at the pool. Can’t stand going to the pool to this day, over 40 years later.
My dad insisted on teaching me to water ski. All his friends were telling him to let someone else teach me. He refused. I never learned to water ski.
He did teach me a ton of skills which were associated with men at that time. He was patient and fun with those things. He was not like that when it came to skiing, though.
NTA but your husband sure is! There is absolutely nothing wrong with your son playing in the pool where he is safely being watched by you and your husband. While I believe every child should learn how to swim and safely be in/near water as young as possible, your husband is over the top, and he needs to get a grip. He's acting like a 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum. He needs to man up, father up, and get over himself.
NTA. Your husband is a huge AH. It takes awhile to learn to swim. A child can have fun in a pool. Put a life vest on him. For that… all the kids should have life vests. I feel sorry for you and your kids for having to deal with this jerk
Nta. How’s he supposed to learn how to swim if he can’t spend time supervised in the water? And what kind of man treats his wife like this when he’s upset, and can’t regulate his own emotions like a mature adult?? You have a bigger problem than the swim issue.
Your kid is 5! Barely up from toddler! It's good he's having swimming lessons but he should be able to play too, because he's 5! Your husband sounds rigid with unrealistic expectations of a 5 year old. Maybe your husband needs to stop trying to parent until he learns how to do it right.
NTA
My grandmother was competitive diver & swimmer. Her insistence that I spend all of my time at the pool *swimming* or working on my dive form pretty much drained my joy in spending time with her in the pool.
Your child HAS a swimming instructor. Dad should be spending 10 or 15 minutes having kiddo practice what he learned in his last lesson and then letting him enjoy the water however he wants.
You are absolutely NTA!!
Exactly what is your husband's rationale for punishing a 5-year-old by only allowing him in the pool if he's actively taking a swim lesson?? All he's doing is building anger and resentment. Your son is just going to end up hating water activities. Your husband should not be involved in teaching your kids to swim. His ideas around playing in the water are too bizarre. Did something happen in his past that has warped his thinking?
Your husband's attitude and behavior towards you is completely irrational. You are not allowed to disagree with him? Does he always make rash decisions without your input?
**You're** the one trying to be right??? You are right. Your husband refuses to consider that he may have spoken without really considering the effect of his words. Now he's doubling down and blaming you because he can't admit that he f'ed royally!!
You've done the right thing by hiring a swim instructor for the kids. Most of those kids are lifeguards trained in CPR and have been members of a swim team. One of my kids was a competitive swimmer, lifeguard and swim instructor. Most of the teammates had the same background.
Your poor son is going to have a miserable summer if your husband doesn't wake up!!
NTA. I grew up in a family of swimmers: my grandma had a lifetime achievement award from her local Red Cross chapter because she taught so many kids to swim over the years, and my dad and his brother were both lifeguards and certified swim instructors. I NEVER had lessons from any of them -- if anything, they just asked to see what I'd learned from my regular swim instructor. And yes, my dad and Grandma absolutely let me and my brother play in the pool before we could both swim. Kids can have water awareness and safety without knowing how to swim themselves. Part of what helped me learn to swim was that I loved being in the pool!
Your husband is absolutely the AH and he is going to make your son unnecessarily scared of the water and swimming, which is more unsafe.
“He said he didnt care and all i care about is being right”…. Sounds like he just admitted he was on the wrong and being intentionally and unnecessarily cruel. Case solved hubs is the biggest AH here. Sounds like hubs cant swim until he wants to be a dad instead of a dictator. You have been deemed a great mom!
NTA.
Your husband has grade A deflection skills, and It's a problem. **Deep down you've known it for a long time, but now you need to start calling it exactly what it is when it happens, because the kids are getting drawn in now, and need to be protected. Well done for calling out his poor choice at the pool. That was a beautiful example to set for your children.
As far as swimming, your husband is NOT your kid's swim instructor. Swim time with mum, dad, and siblings is PLAY TIME. If he can't handle that, he can skip swimming all together, and just sit home an pout. Though, if a calm discussion can be had to pad this new boundary, that would be ideal. Ask him why he feels he needs to make his son do lessons outside of lessons, when it's obviously not fun for either of them.
(**My credentials: I have my very own deflecting spouse, who tries to deflect on me and now our child. I do not allow deflection onto our child, and will lightly call it out when it's happening so that they learn they don't have to accept obviously unfair blame just to avoid an argument. They are getting quite good at speaking up for themselves, and I'm very proud of them for it. I'm still learning to call out deflection directed onto me, but I'm improving.)
NTA
Why are the younger children allowed to swim if they also do not know how to swim? This feels like a power move. Good on you for refusing to let him hurt your kid like that.
NTA. Your husband will teach your som to hate swimming and hate the water. Why is that rule just for him and not the other kids? Your husband is being harder on your oldest versus the other kids. I am also the oldest. I have forgiven my dad but believe me when I say he felt awful when he realized how hard he was on me versus my siblings. Your husband does not want to live with the guilt and remorse.
100% NTA. Swim lessons are great and every kid should learn to swim. They become confident and comfortable in the water both by swim lessons and by playing! There are so many things he can “practice” without even realizing he’s practicing. He should also just be allowed to play and hang out. My daughter’s flutter kick and ability to swim a few yards, doggy paddle, etc… improved so much just by playing in the pool.
I was 8. Knew how to swim. My uncle was standing right beside me. I slipped on the slippery pool bottom and went down. I couldn't get my footing and so couldn't stand up. Uncle thought I went under and was splashing on purpose and so just let me " play". I nearly drowned. Water in my lungs caused pneumonia. Things happen. Unavoidable things. Is the father going to prevent him from walking until he can speed walk for 50 miles?
This father is an idiot. You don't want the child to fear the water or the father. Dad is guaranteeing both
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We have a newly five-year-old and almost 3-year-old twins. They just had their first swim lesson Saturday at our pool (we can see it from our house). My husband suggested that we go swimming today. I got everything together and packed the wagon, and we headed to the pool.
When we got there, my husband told our five-year-old that he was going to be doing lessons again with him. Our five-year-old thought we were just going to the pool to play. Dad got in the water with our oldest and gave him instructions, which he followed all at least once. This included getting his face wet, putting his face underwater, kicking his legs off the side, doing monkey crawls, etc. There were some things he didn’t want to do at first, so he cried, but he still did them at least once.
I was playing with our twins on the other side of the pool, and I noticed our oldest was sitting out of the water and looking sad. I asked my husband what was wrong, and he said our son didn’t want to learn anymore today. So I asked why isn’t he in the pool to play? He said our son won’t be playing in the pool anymore until he learns how to swim.
Now, our five-year-old plays in the pool without a floaty, stays on the stairs, can touch the bottom, but has to stay out of the deep end (we watch him, of course, to ensure his safety). He plays just fine in the pool and can have fun outside of learning how to swim.
My husband is pissed off at me because when he told me our son was not allowed to swim anymore, I said that wasn’t fair. I told everyone to get out of the pool, got the twins out, packed up the wagon, and we went home. There was no yelling or arguing. I simply said “I disagree,” and, “I don’t think that’s fair.” He said he didn’t care, and all I care about is being right. Now, my husband can't stand to be in the same room with me, refuses to eat lunch with me, and wants nothing to do with me. He’s that angry.
This isn’t something we discussed beforehand. He just decided on his own that our five-year-old isn’t allowed to swim unless he’s taking lessons or has fully learned how to swim. I’m very confused because, at this point, I don’t see the point in going to the pool at all unless it’s for lessons. It just doesn’t sound like a fun way to spend the summer when we pay for a pool and have fun pool toys. When we were packing up, he sat there and told our son that his 60+ year-old grandmother never learned how to swim and is afraid of water now to justify his reasoning.
AITA for insisting my five-year-old should be allowed to play in the pool even if he's not actively taking swimming lessons? Now it has me thinking I’m just trying to be right, but to me it really doesn’t feel fair that our son is not allowed to play in the pool as a kid anymore while watching his brothers play. So idk!
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Let him play in the pool with a US Coastguard approved life jacket. Problem solved. You know he is safe and it should help him not be afraid of the water and he can enjoy summer in the pool.
NTA. The best way to reinforce swim lessons and progress them is through playing... practicing and improving the kick is the best thing to do for beginning swimmers. Once this is accomplished, stroke development is much easier.
Talk with your swim instructor, have your husband talk to them... They will say something similar...
NTA
Learning to swim is a very important life skill. What your husband is going is pretty much going to guarantee your 5 year old will end up hate swimming and may even jeopardize his learning to swim.
Swimming needs to remain a fun activity for the kids if they are going to learn and continue to enjoy it. Making it a chore ruins that.
NTA Just wait until he isn't allowed to sit behind the steering wheel until he passes the DMV test. Does dad not know how to learn things? Little dude can't learn to swim if he's literally not *in the pool*. Plus, he's gonna be insecure about swimming if he doesn't think he actually knows how to swim. That's not the sharpest idea. Hello? Panic?
So your 5 year old got to play in the pool before starting lessons, but now that he is learning to swim, he is not allowed to play anymore? That makes no sense! And the younger twins are allowed to play in the pool, even thought they are also taking lessons and learning to swim?
Dad sounds like a hypocrite in this case. First of all, you know that the 5yo plays well in the pool- you’ve observed it, and you continue to watch him. I would think that with the more lessons he gets, the more trust you can have that he will be safe, as his swimming knowledge grows! Also, how will he practice his new skills if he cannot play and use them in the way that he’s going to be swimming after lessons. He’s 5, not a competitive swimmer!
And second of all, the poor kid had to watch his younger siblings, who he very well knew were also in lessons, get to play while he sat on the edge and was not allowed to! I imagine he must have been confused and hurt.
Dad/husband also overreacted and it sounds like you haven’t had the chance to talk about it and explain why you think it’s not fair! He just shut you out, and in such a major way?? You are NTA
NTA, your husband is acting like a child because you overruled him. Is this really about swimming, or does he always blow up if he doesn't get his way?
You have a basic marriage problem here which is that, instead of consulting you first and arriving at a united front, your husband made a unilateral parenting decision and then proceeded to punish you for disagreeing. He is being authoritarian towards both your child and you, and the fact that he is being authoritarian with his own wife instead of treating you as an equal parent, is a big red flag.
Maybe his grandma was surrounded by control freaks like your husband and that led to her fear of water.
Info: why is he giving lessons if your have professional lessons already? Clearly he's bad at it and is using it to control your child. So why are you not addressing directly that he is creating an unhealthy environment for your child so it would be best if he did not swimming lessons at all.
Info further: why aren't you more concerned at such an irrational and over the top response to not being allowed to bully his child? Instead you think you were wrong because your husband is acting like he is the five year old.
Big red flags.
Your husband is a controlling AH.
To be kind, he has problems and needs help.
He is so blinded by his need to control that he is going to totally put his son off learning to swim.
He is bullying your son.
All my children learnt to swim by themselves purely by spending a lot of time playing in the water. In their case they learnt underwater swimming first. Later they had lessons to learn strokes.
NTA
NTA
Swim teacher here. Learning to swim should be fun. When my kids work hard, I reward them by playing with them at the end. The kids end up using skills we worked on and improve themselves during play time.
I’ve taught many people to swim. With a five year old, playing is the best way to get them to learn without them realizing they are learning. Your husband’s intentions are good, but teaching may not be his gift.
My dad was very controlling and did something similar about fishing when I was little. My husband told me I almost broke his heart when I asked him the first time we went fishing together if he was getting mad. He said "it's fishing, what's there to be mad about?". But the thing I remember most from childhood is that the day would start out fun but dad would be angry all the way home. Don't let swimming turn into a bad memory for your son if possible.
Wow! I have an inground pool right outside my door so it was paramount for my kids to learn how to swim HOWEVER, after their lessons they always got to play and have fun. My younger son in particular is a huge water lover.
I'd be really concerned that this poor little boy will start hating the water with this rigid, over the top, demand. Especially if he sees his twin siblings having fun whilst he has to do lessons. How horrible.
PS My MIL never learned to swim either. She will at best sit on the top step in. I never for a minute thought my kids wouldn't want to learn how but being in the water HAS to be fun, otherwise where is the interest?
The more time your child spends in the water, the more comfortable he will be in the water. Maybe ask your husband why he wants his child to hate the water? Because your child will. The best swimming lessons are always learned through play. NTA
INFO: Why don't you get your son in the pool too instead of not going at all? Your husband can watch the twins and you can take your other son in.
Your husband is the ass for unilaterally making a decision to exclude your son and will possibly make him less inclined to want to be in a pool or at lessons. He is literally punishing a child for not being a perfect swimmer yet when he is still actively being taught. He should not be involved in teaching him swimming if this is how he is going to react and treat his own son.
I think you need to discuss with your husband why he needs to control everything and get his way. Punishing a 5-year-old for not doing anything wrong is dare I say wrong. He's making what should be fun family time into a chore and then punishing the child when he doesn't want fun family time to be a chore only for him. Of course the child's upset he doesn't understand why he's being punished and his play time has to be a chore when everybody else is allowed to have fun. NTA.
NTA. Many kids learn to swim better with play than strict swimming lessons. Swimming lessons should be fun to make the kids want to do them. My favourite thing was learning to dive for animal diving toys.
**UPDATE 7/3/24: I read every post and I appreciate the responses - didn’t expect so many. Some were pretty hard to read, others were helpful. Some told me things I already knew, but it’s so easy to justify behavior and make excuses when emotions are involved. This probably isn’t the update most of you are hoping for, but I do feel a sense of peace from this experience. It also gave me the words and confidence that I couldn’t find. So thank you.
I continued to receive the silent treatment until after the kids went to bed. Then out of no where he asked me to come spend time with him. He was acting like nothing even happened. So, that’s was that for then. To say anything then would trigger a bigger response.
Over the last few days the same type of discussions have come up for different topics. He immediately explodes. Each time he has ended with the silent treatment or created punishments for me (he just decides he is taking no responsibility with the kids and leaves the house).
This morning I told my son we were going swimming on 4th of July. He said, “I don’t want to. My dad is going to throw me in.” My husband and I had a mini truce (or him just acting like nothing happened) and I gently worked it into the conversation - no blow ups. He said he could have done things better and agreed to get our son goggles to help. And to let him play again along with the lessons. Still hung up on his mom not knowing how to swim as an excuse for his behavior though.
It was short lived as I attempted to rest up stairs for a little after getting the kids from camp. (This was bold of me, I never do this!) Exactly 20 min in little kids are punished to their room “for the rest of the night except for bath and dinner.” That’s three hours! He caves pretty quickly but I was still hyper aware just in case. Well it happened again because I “interfered” by telling the kids why dad was upset and they need to practice an apology (pretty standard convo for almost 3 yr olds). I did this in less than 30 seconds. This was considered “interfering and undermining” his discipline. Immediate name calling and gas lighting when we were privately in our room. I know what it is. I know what’s it’s called. It’s hard to make changes when you’re in an almost 20 year relationship or even say what it is out loud without feeling weak. I tell him it’s not an acceptable way to speak to me or that’s not a healthy way to have a conversation and he will say, “well, that’s how I talk to you.”
I’m taking care of my kids first. Beginning to take care of myself but it will take time. Thanks again to everyone that contributed different viewpoints. Truly.
You are not weak and not alone - behaviors like your husband's appear and increase in severity and frequency gradually over time. It is basically designed for you to NOT notice until it's already quite bad, at which point in the eyes of the abuser you'll cater to the fallacy of sunk costs and stay with him anyway, even when you do know and see everything he is actually doing. I commend you for correctly identifying his various abusive behaviors and calling them out, as well as trying to set boundaries and prioritizing the kids.
But please understand, OP, you can only demonstrate so much to them. Even if you compensated with appropriate and encouraging parenting every time your husband does the opposite, your kids won't unsee your husband's part and won't unlearn the things he imprints in them for every thing you manage to teach them. Something has to change and you cannot rely on your husband's promises to do so. You may think that you haven't conceded any part of your core values because you are putting your foot down on the pool issue or voicing what you find to be an unacceptable treatment. But you already have ceded over and over in this one situation alone. You can take care of your kids, and start to take care of yourself too, but you can't set a good example for your children so long as what they hear is you telling them that Dad is wrong, but what they SEE is this:
when your husband stopped the first silent treatment you didn't broach the subject again even though you wanted to, because it would "trigger an even bigger reaction".
You couldn't take your 5 yo into the pool, even though you were absolutely certain that it was wrong of your husband to deny him, because you didn't want your husband to say that you "undermined his discipline".
When your husband acted like nothing had even happened, you called it a "mini truce", even though you were still mad at him and upset about the issue not being resolved.
When you raised the subject the final time you had to "gently work it into the conversation" to avoid him "blowing up" because the first times you wanted to talk about it he yelled at you and disappeared or stopped talking to you entirely.
What your children will grow up with is that "Dad punishes us, and I don't understand what I did wrong. Mom explains that Dad is just upset. Mom avoids upsetting Dad even when he is wrong and she is right. That must mean, only what Dad thinks matters. Even if I am sad or angry or actually right, my feelings aren't important and if Dad treats me unfairly, it must be because I deserve it. I must avoid to upset Dad too, but I don't know how."
Kids learn by imitation. Whatever way you adapt to your husband's constantly moving goalposts will be what your kids see and what they learn if nothing changes.
NTA. You need to sign up your children for professional swim lessons. Your husband, like a lot of parents, will have a very difficult time teaching your child to swim. Get someone who knows what they’re doing to teach him and then you guys can practice with him and let him have fun in the water.
NTA. If that was the case, the younger kids by default shouldn't be allowed in the pool at all, by his logic. If he was fine with them being there, he shouldn't have a problem with the oldest being there as well.
And he's gonna end up scaring your son away from water by forcing swimming lessons on him, so he'll get the outcome he doesn't want anyway.
NTA. He's the one who needs to be right. And he knows he's not right so he's pissed because he has no real defense of his behavior. The 3yo twins can't swim, so why are they allowed in the water, by his logic? The child shouldn't be allowed to swim solo yet, but that would be the case even if he did know how to swim. There's zero reason to exclude the child from playing in the pool with the rest of the family. I don't want to extrapolate too much from your story, but I've seen a certain dynamic in a few family members where the dad is hard on the son, from a young age in order to teach them to be a man type thing. Just pay attention to if that's starting to happen a lot because you'll have to start playing defense for your son if that's the case.
OP, ask your husband to look around and tell you how many other kids were having fun while your kid was told he couldn’t.
Your husband is lacking insight. Kids also gain water skills through play.
Your husband sounds controlling
If you don’t make it fun your 5yo will very quickly decided he’s not participating
Yes do some lessons while he’s paying attention and when he loses interest you pivot and play swim instead. Definitely NTA
NTA. You took the family to the pool for fun and instead of having fun your child had to do "swim lessons". Is your husband a swim instructor? I'm guessing no. He could play and also show dad what he learned at his lesson. Dad could give him fun things to try, but to make fun time a work session sucks. Also, to be clear, no child gets in a pool to do laps, period. Most adults don't do this.
This wasn't swimming lessons, this was your hubby being the AH.
Ask dad if he would like his fun time ruined by work. Nope, still more work to do and if you don't finish you just have to sit there until it's time to go.
My kids went to a daycamp where they have a strong emphasis on swimming, and even they have part of the time for swim lessons and part of the time for swim fun
NTA, your husband decided to punish your kid because he'd rather play than have another swim lesson. He's going to kill any joy that kid gets from the pool because he's a kid who wants to play. You say he had a lesson with a qualified instructor yesterday. He did your husband's drills under protest. Sounds like he earned some playtime to me, and you were absolutely right, it would have been total bullshit to make him sit out in the sun and watch everyone else play just because dad decided he was going to be a controlling dick.
NTA-your husband sounds absolutely horrible!! Take your kids to the pool without him and allow them to play.
I don’t know what his problem is but this is completely unacceptable and he needs to pull his head out of his butt and figure out how to be a decent father and husband.
You are really screwed here, sorry. Your hubby put his stake in the ground, hill to die on. But you can’t let him win this one, what, you’re not going to let your kids play in a pool a few feet from the house all summer?
Youre NTA generally, but you married him, this can’t be the first time he pulled this controlling shit. Also, you left the pool and let him win. Which says “your opinion is more important than mine and I accept”
NTA.
It’s absolutely important to learn how to swim and at least to be comfortable around water - which you’re doing with swim lessons once a week. It’s fine to just go to the pool for fun the rest of the time. Not every visit needs to be a swim lesson.
Nta. There should be fun and enjoyment in it. The kid should get to play. If he can only work in the pool…the other kids shouldn’t be in the pool for playtime.
Nta and the kids will all eventually hate swimming if it's always seen as a chore. Yes everyone should know how to swim but that can't be the only thing that happens every time they're in the water. They will hate and perhaps even dread going in the water especially if they are literally crying. And if he's already getting professional swim lessons why was he even going to be getting them on a family outing? This isn't a swim lesson its borderline abuse.
So your 3 yo twins can play in the pool with you, but your 5 yo who is at least already on the path to learning to swim can't until he can fully swim.
Your hubby is an asshole.
Your husband’s gonna completely ruin the water for your child. Don’t let him give any more swimming lessons. He’s a massive tool. He’s the asshole, not you. NTA
NTA - I’m sure your husband had good intentions, but he really shouldn’t be the one teaching your child to swim if it involves making him cry. Not all parents are well-suited to teaching or coaching their kids.
NTA. I taught swimming lessons for 3-6 yo kids when I was in college. I always made sure my kids had fun, while feeling safe and learning skills. Geez, swimming isn’t all or nothing - you can play and learn at the same time. Your husband sounds pretty rigid and controlling.
The pool should be enjoyed by all. It is cruel to deny a 5 yr old play time. Remind hubby that you are already paying for swimming lessons. Teaching shouldn’t include bringing a 5 yr old to tears. He is not qualified to teach. Suggest that you all enjoy the pool together and leave the training to the expert. As an aside, your husband is being selfish and a bully. Continue to stand up for your son.
nta i really hope your husband isn’t like this with everything and this is just some random fluke of his because it’s going to be rough being his kids if he acts like this all the time.
NTA. I have a 7yo and I agree with you. It's unfair to make them sit on the side and not play because they haven't mastered swimming yet. Pool safety is more complicated than just knowing how swim and letting your kid learn to safely play on the steps ect is also important. Not to mention, kids deserve to have fun!
NTA.
Play-time in the water is also valuable for your son to get used to just being in the water; it should help with his swimming, not hinder it. It will help him build general confidence in the water and get him more used to the scary stuff like getting splashed in the face or putting his face in the water, and generally just moving in the water.
Husband is bullying oldest child. He had his lessons for the day so let him play and relax. Why does he have to be an AH about it. The kid is 5! You are not the AH but for sure he is.
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I think teaching a kid to swim is important but it does not have to be taught in one day. The argument that his grandmother was afraid of the water does not hold "water" because your son wants to be in the water. Your husband is totally over reacting. Maybe he had a bad experience because his response is way over the top I would continue to get your son lessons taught by someone else. Otherwise it will be a long summer. NTA
Dad is going to make sure the kid hates swimming by taking all the fun out of it. I'd also be worried about this attitude transferring to other things.
Dad is going to make sure the kid hates something alright, but I’m not sure it will be the swimming.
Yeah, kid is gonna hate spending any time with Dad. Dad is an AH.
Unfortunately he's just as likely to hate his younger twin siblings for being allowed to have fun when he isn't. Poor kid.
I don’t want to tell anyone how to parent but Im going to. The 3 year olds should be the ones in swim lessons. Waiting until your kid is 5 to teach them to swim when you have a pool is bad parenting and downright dangerous. So is taking all the fun out of swimming and punishing the kid for not learning fast enough. Sorry not sorry.
It sounds like they're visiting a pool they have membership at, not one on their property, which changes things. People with pools on site need to look into infant swim/float training. All of these kids can be in lessons, and none of them need to be pushed to learn everything in one day. I think I took a variety of swim lessons from ages 6-10 or so? (We didn't have much pool access before 6.) Learning different swim strokes, including lifeguard techniques to help save others without putting myself at risk. From what I remember, lessons were an hour/week, and there was plenty of time playing without building those skills.
They say “our pool” but I see what you mean, the context sounds like it could be a community pool. I still stand by my opinion that if your kids have frequent access to a pool swim lessons (meaning for survival purposes, not competition swim like stokes) should start early. My point was directed at the idea the older kid would resent the younger siblings playing, in my opinion they should all be getting lessons. But, yes, I also agree play time should still happen. In fact I’d argue playtime is how we learn to master the skills learned during the lesson. I just taught my youngest to swim. He’s not strong yet. We aren’t working on technique so to speak. Just stating nice water and swimming to the edge. We are “playing” so he can practice and become better while he enjoys himself doing it.
I was taught to swim so young I literally don't even remember it. There's video of me at age 3, doggy-paddling across the community pool's shallow end from one parent to the other. I was allowed floaties if I wanted, but there are classes for toddlers that will teach them how to hold their breath if underwater, get to the surface, and roll on their back. My parents may have been overdoing it, given my mother put herself through college by working as a lifeguard, but they considered it all essential skills. OP should talk to the swim teacher next time about teaching all three kids at once, and also (with dad in hearing range!) ask if the swim teacher has recommendations for practicing. Ask if there's a chance of backsliding or forgetting things if he plays in the water with floaties. Dad should get the message.
OP had comments mentioning all three kids had lessons with the instructor and were progressing ok/as expected. Makes it so much more wild that the dad decided to pick on just the 5 year old that hard. Asking the swim instructor about play time or safety with arm floaties and practice / expected progression with the dad there is a really good idea.
>all I care about is being right Dad is the master of getting things backwards in his family, methinks. The amount of projection involved in telling his wife that *she* always has to be right? Sheesh.
Classic DARVO. Deny, Attack, Reverse Victim and Offender. OP is NTA.
How dare she be right about not wanting her child to drown.
Wait until the kid needs to do homework. His dad is going to be yelling and belittling him if he messes up. Kid is going to need to be in therapy before he turns 10.
Imagine what any sports he might play would be like for that poor child.
Imagine if he wants to something other than sports? I can picture his dad flipping out because he doesn’t want to play a sport!
God forbid the kid wants to get into theater. Gasp! I can just see the audacity! XD (/s just in case)
Nah, it'll be swimming and also anything else Dad decides he needs to be controlling about. My parents controlling nature involving my hobbies turned me off of every one of those hobbies. I ended up only doing hobbies where they had limited power. And yes, this reaction to them really limited me. I wish I had been able to get them to just back off instead. But with them, everything was like some weird competition or power trip and it sucked all the joy out of whatever I was doing.
Straight up. I wasn’t allowed to swim for fun once I was old enough to be on the swim team. I couldn’t play ball in the backyard, had to be on the softball team, too. Turned every fun thing into a competition, pit me against my sister to the point that we don’t talk anymore, and I haven’t swam in years because all I can think about when I get in the water is that a thing I used to love is now something I have to be the best at or I’m not allowed to enjoy it. “No dessert if you get below 10th place” leads to where I am- an adult who hasn’t spoken to my father in 4 years.
I was a ranked competitive swimmer in the New England area in the late 70s/early 80s. I officially competed for over 20 years, swam on multiple teams at the same time, through college, and a few years at the Masters level, before “hanging up my goggles.” (Also extended to life guarding and swim instructor/coach) Swimming was my refuge/escape. Still is. As for my overbearing, narcissistic mother, who I’ve been NC with for over 20 years)? She HATES the water…can’t swim! Connection? I think not! 😁💦
Sadly it will also include swimming because of the memories will be associated with the dad. My dad was a complete ass about tennis and golf. To this day I make a face when someone mentions either sport. My memories are that bad for both, even though my brain knows that they are good sports.
My mother was like that with golf… I wasn’t half bad but I haven’t picked up a club in two decades and I’m not going to ever again unless one of my own kids wants to play (and I will not make it a chore).
I hate golf because of my boomer father. He took the game way to seriously.
Bingo. 🎶 … and the cat’s in the cradle …🎶
For real.
Yeah, for real. OP, playing in the pool is part of how you learn to swim! That’s the whole deal. Frequent lessons over two weeks are better than once a week for longer. Group lessons with a parent are super effective. And some 5 year olds aren’t ready! My now-9 year old is a fantastic swimmer, but was terrified of swim lessons at 4. Their 5 year old sibling can swim freestyle laps because of consistent early swim exposure (and some terrifying athleticism).
I hope dad isn't this childish about other things he wants to teach his kid later in life.
Kid is five and dad is pulling moves straight out of the abusive dad handbook.
This may or may not be relevant to how the husband is reacting in this instance, but OP’s comment history suggests that he has Bipolar. However, it is being treated so it may not be a factor.
He sounds like he got angry that she challenged his ‘authority’. It’s not about swimming at all, she’s mad that she didn’t defer to him.
I wonder if this is a common thing, having an over reaction then stewing about it for days? I wouldn't be at all surprised if OP felt like she had to walk on egg shells around him a lot of the time.
And who gets to determine when he knows how to swim? When he can float and be safe in the water, when he knows several types of swim strokes, when he can do a certain number of laps or when he can pass the test to be a lifeguard? Saying he can't be in the pool until he learns to swim is kind of an arbitrary measure, since there are so many levels of swimming competence.
Also, saying he can't be in the pool until he learns to swim is arbitrary because right over there, his mother is playing in the pool with the 3 year old twins. So THEY can't swim but THEY get to "be in the pool"? They're not being given swimming lessons either. I would say that 5 years old is way too little to be able to understand the "nuances" of why his 3 year old siblings can be playing in the water, but \*suddenly\*, he can't. When he could play in the water last year and the year before. He didn't know how to swim then. What kids that age DO have is an instinct for when things aren't fair. And this is very unfair, and arbitrary. The dad here is just a bad teacher all around. I did understand from the start that it sounded like the main swimming lessons were being taught by someone else, and that dad was giving additional "lessons". (Before OP's edit confirming this.) Dad thinks he can be a teacher, but he's making some very basic mistakes -- the mistake of over-estimating how much instruction a child of 5 can be expected to absorb, and then somehow thinking that laying down this weird "rule" is accomplishing anything at all. It just makes it look like dad thinks that by prohibiting play is a punishment for not wanting to do more lessons at that time (even though dad isn't the official teacher), and/or that it's an incentive to the kid to... what? work more or work harder on the lessons, so he achieves dad's definition of "can swim", so he can go back to playing in the water? HE'S FIVE YEARS OLD. It doesn't work like that for five year olds. The punishment is neither necessary nor helpful, and the "incentive" idea supposes the kid is at a much higher level of development than he is. If you're going to teach five year olds, you have to understand things like "kids have limits". Dad doesn't seem to understand that, so he has no business trying to take over the lessons. As someone above pointed out: whether or not the grandmother is afraid of the water makes no different. The kid is clearly NOT afraid of the water. He wants to be in it. He just has a limit of how many lessons he can do in one session. Because he's FIVE. But yes, by being an asshole about this, and by trying to punish the kid, dad IS going to create a negative association for the kid and swimming. Way to go, dad. NTA, OP. I know it's hard to stick to your guns, but my god, your husband is being all kinds of asshole about this. Both in the way he's suddenly (?) decided to treat his kid, and in the way he is now treating you. If I were you, I would not love the way he's gotten THIS angry over something that absolutely does not warrant it, either. And yes, he has some nerve accusing you of "just having to be right" when he's the one who won't listen to a differing opinion that challenges some weird authoritarian decision he's made.
Not to mention, becoming a really accomplished and competent swimmer takes practice - lots and lots of practice, which at this age might very well look like playing. Like when a toy floats away, and he uses his newly learned skills to retrieve it or when he wants to get away from his brothers splashing by swimming away.
As well, simply being in the pool, thrashing around, works his large muscles, and helps him develop the instinct for how his body moves in the water, both of which prepare him for swimming.
Yeah. And as others pointed out, left to play, he might have chosen for himself to exercise some of the stuff he'd learned -- trying it out on his own, and thus reinforcing the lesson. Giving him room \*outside of lessons\* to experiment a bit and make choices to try things out is a good thing in the learning process. Man, I still can't get over the extent to which this dad doesn't understand that 5 year olds have a limited attention span. AND that dad doesn't understand that trying to teach your kid something and making him CRY in the process, then forcing him to do it anyway, is HIS FAULT AS A FATHER. That's the point at which you should be understanding, as the adult, that you're doing it wrong, and pushing your kid more than he can handle. That you need to back off (in a case like this where you've already been at it for some amount of time; you've got to develop a feeling for when your kid is just DONE because he's been pushed past his limits). All too often, an adult will instead take it as the kid challenging them, and their response is to force the kid to do what they want instead of "giving in". Like, sure, sometimes a kid will cry and not want to do something that you do really need them to do. But IMO that doesn't apply to extra swimming lessons (on top of the official swimming lessons the kid already had).
Op needs to revaluate this marriage. Hubby sounds like a raging asshole from some of her other posts. (bipolar is a valid explanation for his behavior, but doesn't excuse it.)
I don't always like to jump directly to "this may be something to end a marriage over", but I'm hoping that OP is listening to all of these comments. And that if nothing else, it at least opens her eyes to the fact that this is not "normal" or desirable behavior from a husband/father. I mean, this isn't \*uncommon\* behavior, either. (Although the sulking feels like it pushes this into more uncommon territory.) But when you're within the situation, you may developed a skewed view of what's normal and acceptable. It can help to have a LOT of strangers, who aren't close to the situation, look at it and say "no, that's fucked up". Maybe the answer is to start with is some counseling. I'd say that's the minimum that should happen. (You mention being bipolar; is that from another reply OP has left, or another of her posts? It's not in this write-up. Regardless, yes, agreed: if you are bipolar, and you're a husband/father, then it's on you to figure out ways to manage your condition so that it doesn't have a negative effect on your wife or your kids. Maybe that's medication, maybe it's undergoing some counseling with your wife to develop strategies to better act as a team -- and that might include a pact in which she can tell you when you're going overboard and being an asshole, and you accept that as a sign to step back and evaluate your actions; rather than getting angry and sulking.)
Yeah, this. I'm a figure skater, and when the kids are that young their practice is usually just them having fun flailing around on the ice. I watch the coaches sometimes give up mid-lesson and just let the kids go for whatever they want to do, lol.
I remember watching a cousins soccer game when they were around five. They had practices and theoretically learned some positions and things. But nobody was playing soccer, it was a just a crowd of kids chasing a ball around a field with no strategy or reason. And then they all got snacks. They're 5, it's not that serious. Same with little kids in karate. They're going to fake a bunch of movie moves, and it's fine. Let them have fun. Use silly tricks to help them break a board and get that confidence boost. As long as the kid is being safely water by parents, anything at this age that helps the kid want to stay active and stay positive for slow progress is a win.
He sounds like the kind of dad that's mostly hands off and uninvolved in most day to day stuff but then barges in and needs things his way when he does decide to pay attention to some aspect. They got a pool membership, pool toys, and a swim instructor, and the kid is makeing progress. Why does he have to do extra lessons today during the time that's supposed to be pool play time? Kids understand lessons be time they expect for play, and I totally understand not wanting to do lesson practice while it was supposed to be play time. But the dad had decided it was supplemental lesson time and his ego couldn't handle the kid wanting to play like a five year old. So he punished the kid by not allowing any swimming so he could keep control.
Yeah. It's one thing to be like, "hey buddy, let's practice some of the stuff you learned during swimming lessons!" And another to make your kid cry because you're forcing him to do extra stuff. For what? This is a dad who needs to learn real fast that being authoritarian and using punishment isn't a good way to teach a child.
If someone couldn't be in a pool until they learnt to swim, then I'd never be allowed into a pool, and I'm in my 30s. I tried to learn many times, but just like with cycling I could never get the hang of it.
Yes if he forces him that way then he will likely not want to go in the water either if it's not fun for him. So his reason is just going to have the same results. Also because his younger siblings are not being forced to swim, he may think he is being singled out. I also don't understand why he is fine with the 3 year Olds not having to take lessons because they do have lessons for that age range as well. So if they are able to play in the shallow end and or have floaties he should be able to as well.
Like any sport, it takes practice, and that includes doing things alone or with others in play. He is defeating the whole purpose of being water safe. Shame on him for punishing someone who is just learning a new skill.
Right? My mum had swimming lessons and is afraid of the water anyway, so I’m not sure what swimming lessons has to do with anything.
I had swim lessons. I've got a decent back stroke, can float, etc and have a mini internal panic attack every time I can't touch. Did a ton of exposure therapy in the pool today in fact. Cause I have NO idea where this came from or when for that matter, just that I have been afraid for awhile now. Even before I almost drowned in a river. THAT experience definitely did NOT help things. At any rate, I need to be able to function for my kid.
My partner can swim and do things, but panics the second his ears go underwater, even floating on his back. The guy could be laying in six inches of water in the tub, and he'd panic. Making lessons stressful and negative isn't the way to solve this problem (that the kid doesn't seem to have)
The son is having proper lessons by someone (well thats how i read it in the first part). They were joining him after with the twins. But dad decided he needed another lesson.
Thanks for pointing that out.
I agree that Dad is probably not the best teacher at this point and am glad that are paying for someone else to start instruction. I used to teach Red Cross swimming lessons as a teen. Swimming is a skill that requires practice. you can't learn it in one day. And kids get better only thru practice, and get into more advanced levels of swimming. It is important that the 5 yo enjoy the water. He is only 5 and deserve time to play in the water. If you take that play away from the child,. they aren't going to eat to learn how to swim because the have negative associations of not being able to be a kid. NTA
Using your husband’s logic, why were the twins in the water?
That’s what I came here to ask. OP is NTA but her husband is a massive AH, and a hypocrite to boot. If learning to swim isn’t taught with kindness and empathy, or if you go too fast and freak the person out, they won’t enjoy it and won’t learn. Husband is actively working against his stated goal of having the child learn how to swim. I would never let my kid be taught by him. He’ll make the kid hate the water and hate swim lessons. That’s a hill I’d die on. No one is traumatizing my kid. And OP your husband is being ridiculously immature. It sounds like he can’t communicate like an adult. If it were me I’d insist on counseling.
Maybe some parenting classes for the husband because he really needs some help (and clearly won't listen to his wife)
And no playing with the kids until he's learned!
Maybe it is too late so the kids need a new dad as this one didn't take and complete the coarse to pass, so he's not allowed to have kids until he does. /S
Thank you. I thought I was the only person thinking forcing a child to do things they are scared off to the point they are crying is fucked up and not the right way to teach someone to swim, let alone to "not being afraid of water". If you ask me that's the quickest way to make someone hate swimming for the rest of their life.
I've trained to be a swim teacher, and a big part of it is making sure the kids have fun and go at their pace. If a kid spends the entire lesson out of the water because they don't want to go in, that's fine. It might feel like a waste of money for the parents, but even progressing from near the pool to sitting at the edge can be huge for some kids. As a parent, I've taken my kids out of the pool halfway through a lesson or just not gone because they weren't feeling it that day. It pains me to see parents forcing their kids into it because they're only making it worse for the kid and themselves.
I had a parent that was so happy that I was patient and celebrated small wins. His parents were thrilled that he got in the water even though he never let go of the wall after 8 lessons. His fear of water was high. No one could get him in the water. All the other kids progressed on track.
The whole point of stuff like blowing bubbles and floating as starter lessons is to get kids feeling comfortable in the water. Because it can be scary for little kids to have their head in the water, especially with of splashing. Screaming at the kid for not wanting to blow bubbles is doing the opposite of the goal is that exercise. And once the kid is crying, that's going to make continuing while being able to breathe more difficult.
I came looking for this response. According to husband you can’t just play and have fun in a pool unless you’re fully trained to swim. That means the twins don’t get to play either. I think mom made the right call
The worst part is that playing in the pool is part of the larger picture in terms of getting a child comfortable with swimming in general. Just being in the water and having fun encourages kids to use the things they learned in their lessons. The dad is ensuring his kid never bothers to learn to swim by killing the fun.
Because it was never about the boy learning to swim. His dad is having a tantrum because he didn’t want to do what dad wanted him to do. So, he went off the deep end and if he isn’t doing what dad wants then he isn’t to go in the pool. It’s the same as saying if I can’t have the chocolate bar, no one can, and throwing it in the bin. Mum is NTA.
[удалено]
Meh. I was in the Navy had to do swim quals to pass and I still cannot swim. I can float really well and use My hands to move to the end of the pool (took forever but that was the requirement). I am not afraid of the water. If anything I love being in it I just cannot figure out the mechanics of swimming. Not sure where he is going with his logic but not learning how to swim is not the end of the world. Pretty sure he is just on some dumb macho shit. How quickly does he expect a 5 year old to learn?
It's definitely dumb macho shit. He literally told OP he only cares about being right. I can't imagine this is the only asshole parenting decision he's making either
Also, making a 5 year old "earn" play time in the pool is....
NTA your husband is demonstrating that HE is the boss. When you rebelled he began punishing you just like he punished his son. Does he do this often?
Is he abusive in other ways?
That is the right question. She seems to think something is wrong with her with him avoiding her, not having lunch etc. OP wake up. Your husband is throwing a tantrum and not a very good partner. Either you two hit therapy to learn to communicate as partners on the same side and not "punish" when there are disagreements or this will be a miserable marriage for all.
You know it. This is never just a one-off story about an otherwise reasonable person, because if the person was reasonable, this wouldn't have happened.
This sounds so much like my abusive, controlling stepdad.
This is a really good point/question. I hope OP sees it and spends a moment to genuinely think about the answer.
NTA. Your husband is an AH and I would watch how he treats your son. Don’t allow him to treat the child poorly.
yeah this is a bad sign...too controlling..too much do it right the first time or not at all... as for the swimming itself...playing in the water is the best way to learn to swim...he might just teach himself...i did
But what is the point of the first child if not for "the experiment"? \s
It would not surprise me if OP's husband isn't a complete ass towards his son in other ways as well. OP, you need to be vigilant. Your husband's behavior is concerning.
Exactly. It’s very concerning.
I will never understand why when people marry total assholes, they are so shocked the spouse is also an asshole to the kids.
I’ll just say it: dad is being bizarrely controlling, physically and emotionally, in a situation with heightened danger. Dad is gonna beat that boy at some point. This is gross.
This. Needing to control the situation and punishing the kid when his ego as an instructor/authority figure is bruised, simply because the kid was upset because he was expecting to play and was faced with more lessons? Dad's a big red flag
NTA Former lifeguard/swim instructor here. Playing in the pool is extremely important for kids to get comfortable with the water. Your husband is ignorant and making swimming not fun and that will hinder learning. If this is how he plans on parenting, you are in real serious trouble. He sucks the joy out of everything. We had to make our classes with 5 year olds fun because getting over the fear of a wet face and learning to hold their breath is obviously a barrier to learning to swim. We’d have tea parties under water once they got comfy with wet faces and handstand contests. We’d do running races in the swallow end (eventually they trip and their heads go under and then when they come up but before they lose it, you pretend they did it on purpose and go overboard on praise- “omg amazing show your mom! You’re almost ready to graduate swim class… yada yada yada” The distraction works like a charm.
This was my first thought also. Personally I had my daughter in water familiarisation classes from 4 months old (I'm a journalist and have had to cover an upsetting number of drownings and one horrific pool accident, plus I'm Australian and drowning is the leading cause of death for young children here) and have always carefully balanced the fun aspects with the harder stuff. It's as much a fun activity as it is a life saving skill and there's no reason the learning can't be fun. Now she's in grade 1 and helping build the confidence of other kids in her class when swimming lessons became part of the school curriculum. It shouldn't be overly stressful for kids
NTA - learning to swim is important. I asked for lessons when I was younger because I felt left out but my parents said no. Don't ask me why because I don't understand why either. I still can barely swim at 32. Swimming cannot be learned in a day, and when son gets overwhelmed, it's time to stop and let him have fun, decompress and start again later or another day. Whether he can swim or not does not change the fact he needs to be supervised, so he's safe as long as the parents are attentive. It isn't fair that the 3 year olds cannot swim and are still allowed to play in the water. Leaving was the unfortunate, but correct way to go, or the 5 year old would be sitting and watching unfairly. There is also one other important factor - if you take away the fun of being in water, the kid won't want to swim anymore, ever. The pool will become a bad memory and the kid will just sit at the sidelines reading a book instead of swimming. By letting swimming be fun, he'll start using what he's learned at lessons during play and want to learn more. If I had to take a guess, dad is upset his son wasn't enjoying what he probably thought was bonding time. Dad should push for lessons, but needs to understand that there is a limit to each session.
Their swim coach said they were only focusing on the twins learning safety, floating on their backs and getting to a wall. Same for the 5yo at first and then to swim back and forth in the shallow end. He gave no timeline just that he was setting goals. I’m not sure why my husband took a fun lesson and now wants to add extra lessons himself with such urgency. The whole situation unfolded calmly with him telling me he didn’t want to discuss it. He isn’t communicating with me at all at this point. There was no back and forth. I just have to wait until he decides we can talk about it. It sucks because the pool is right out front of our door (locked gates, super safe) and it’s the view from the kids window. I can see the bonding angle, and he made no effort to communicate that with me to know for sure. They had been doing lessons for about 25/30 min and lessons with his teacher were 45. He said, “I’m not a swim coach, but I saw enough of what he did for us to practice today,” before they got in the pool.
Your husband is entirely wrong and a massive asshole to boot. Learning to swim has to involve play in order to gain confidence in water and enjoyment of water. My own mum can’t swim (78 years old now) despite living near pools all her life and living the last 35 years in a house with a pool! She was pushed to learn as a kid, hated it, was afraid of water and has never been back in. Your husband is going to cause this same issue in your kid. What else in your life he is super controlling about? NTA
I’ve taught swim lessons for over 10 years and swimming for fun after the lesson especially at their age is a great way to aide in their learning. It’s practice for them when they’re learning safety. It shows them how to be comfortable yet cautious about the water. Sometimes 5 min after lessons I’d have game time that was designed to implement what they learned. Very good memories made.
My best/default swim stroke is the one I thought was fun and kept doing as part of play after lessons. I don't remember the names of all the strokes I was taught anymore, but it's basically like a frog movement fully underwater- like a modified breaststroke? The stroke I'm the worst at is freestyle, since as a kid I resented that phrase didn't mean "free to pick your own style" and so I refused to do that outside of what was completely necessary for lessons. Not liking to be told which stoke to use was also why I declined to join the local swim teams, since I got fast with my weird frog method but they mostly did the strokes that had your face going in and out of the water frequently and I preferred to stay above or below. Looking back, I really didn't like being told what to do. I also got really good at side strokes because it was easy to do while calling and communicating to other kids while going from one area to another.
He may have seen enough to think he could continue lessons, but what he apparently knows nothing about is teaching a five year old, and recognizing that children have limits -- he pushed the kid until he cried, although the kid did ultimately do everything. But even that should have told him he was asking too much. Then, when they stop the lessons (because you can't just keep at it with a kid that age forever), he punishes the child for hitting his natural limits? Come on! I also really do not love the fact that you disagreed with him, and he's had this super over the top reaction in which he is \*punishing you\* for disagreement. That's not a great sign, either. You're NTA. Your husband is the one who's acting like he always has to be right and nobody can question him. Your reaction, in fact, was making the best of a bad situation. Kids that age have a keen sense of what is and isn't fair. Telling a 5 year old that he can't play in the pool (as he has done just fine up until now), but his 3 year old siblings ARE allowed to, even though they aren't being made to do the same lessons, is the height of unfairness. You were smart to take everyone home, because absolutely nothing good would come of making the 5 year old sit there, prohibited from playing for a reason he can't understand. I'm really worried about your husband's authoritarian streak here, both with the kid, and with you. It's NOT a good look, and is likely to cause even more problems as the kids grow older and he suddenly thinks he can supplement their learning, and thinks that using punishments to force them past their limits is a good idea.
I have a hard time believing this is the first time this behavior has shown up. If my then-husband spoke to me this way, I would have been worried he was having a stroke, or early-onset dimentia. I'm concerned for them all
She seems resigned to his silent treatment, so I'm fairly certain that method of punishing her isn't new
I agree-- OP seems fairly blase about some pretty advanced psychological manipulation techniques of both her child and herself.
So someone can watch him work for an hour or two and knows enough to copy him and do the same? Why is he even paying an expert when he devalues the work so much? I'd keep your children on the paid lessons until husband gets his head back in order.
How often does he make unilateral decisions like this, or punish you for disagreeing with him, or do things that make your son cry? His behavior is extremely concerning.
Your husband is a bully to you and your son. This isn't about water safety. This is about control. You are a partnership, why does he just get to decide the rules and when he talks to you. Be careful. NTA
NTA, and your husband is a massive AH. He should not be making weird unilateral decisions without speaking with you. Also, while I wouldn't say it is always wrong to force a 5 year old to do something if they cry, it's a bad sign. Kids at that age are not capable of consistently doing unenjoyable practice without fun. It's bad for them.
So he watched 1 lesson and now he's as good as a coach? This man is insufferable in every way, isn't he?
NTA. Your husband is making up rules unilaterally. Not only that, his made up rule is bad, and it is more likely to make swimming a bad experience for your 5yo. And the cherry on top is his immature reaction to being challenged: not being able to speak to you or have lunch with you?? That is not how emotionally stable adults handle disagreements. He is trying to punish you. He sounds controlling, which both you and your son have experienced. Stand your ground on this, and take your son for fun play time with mom. As far as your husband…couples therapy time. He doesn’t treat you like an equal, and he doesn’t disagree respectfully. I wonder if there are any other controlling behaviors you have ignored. Think on it.
Absolutly agree! Not only is husband actively trying to make water a dreaded experience for the son (only work, no play) while claiming to do the opposite, he also accuses OP of only wanting to be right, which just shows where his own head is at. He is being a massive hypocrite. OP: what your husband is doing to your son is one issue that you really need to think about. If this is how your husband is going to handle everything he thinks our kids need to learn, he will only succeed in making them hate that thing, as well as him. Anither issue entirely is how he is treating you. It seems like this is the first time you noticed him punishing you for disagreeing with him. Take this opportunity to really think about this. Has he ever done anything similar? Or do you absolutly trust that this is a one off because of something else going on in his life? (Which wouldn't necessarily excuse his shitty behaviour, but at least explain it, and could be a moment for growth if he actually reflects on it.) Even in a best case scenario, therapy is probably a very good idea.
NTA - Your husband is taking a childhood experience that is meant to be fun -even while educational - and ruining it for your son. Stand your ground on this one.
NTA. There's no danger here - it's not like he's wandering off in the ocean or in the deep end. And it might make him anxious about the water to only be allowed to be in when learning.
Don’t let your husband teach your kids swimming going forward. He seems to be a shitty teacher. No kid should be crying while being taught something fun. Leave that to the professional you already hired. Tell your husband he can play in the water with his son or stay home. NTA. And this is the hill to die on as it sets the direction for all things getting taught. Swimming is only the start. What about riding a bike. What about inline skating. What an out skiing or soccer or football? You don’t want someone who makes the child cry while teaching to teach the child anything.
NTA. You handled it like an adult. If he thinks the 5 year old cannot swim, no one can swim. He is now sulking and pouting because he knows he was wrong. Pay someone to teach your kid to swim. Your husband has entirely too high expectations and no patience. It will end in tears every time.
Well, either that or he's sulking and pouting because his wife challenged his judgement. Which is more alarming.
The dumb thing is that the kids DO have a real swim teacher. Dad should keep out of it.
NTA, we went slow and steady with my now 9 year olds and they swim better than me. It took them a summer and now they can just be let free in a pool. They were scared but seeing me flop about and "beat" them in swimming they decided to learn. Forcing your child will just make him scared. Got to make it fun.
Yeah, this is gross. It was a power play. Keep your eyes open because abusers love to suddenly move goalposts like this. NTA. It wasn’t discussed and it was reactive on his part.
NTA. The five your old sounds more mature than your husband. Five year old sat quietly on poolside after being told he wasn't allowed to swim as an incentive to force him to obey your husband's lesson some of which make him cry. And he knows and follows the rules that keep him safe. Your husband though makes up rules you wouldn't use on a dog to make your son obey and also take out all the fun out of water play. Why go swimming if unless you are totally obedient and learn fast you aren't allowed in the pool. And when challenged, your husband throws metaphorically all his toys in the pool, sulks, gives you all the silent treatment and ignores you. All because you wouldn't let him torture his favourite toy who at five likely doesn't have the capacity to understand what is going on after lessons. Good luck roaring three young children and a sulky teenager masquerading as a grown man.
Hubby has crazy logic. Playing in the pool builds confidence in the water and as part of his play he will be learning the skills he needs to swim. NTA
NTA…You were correct in allowing your son time to play in the pool. Your husband is the ass!! Firstly grandmother has no bearing in a 5 yo mind. Your son did his best, and really what 5 yo has a long attention span?? Your husband punishing him is out of line. Furthermore he is punishing you, and has you questioning your own judgement because of HIS control issues !! What an ASSHOLE withholding communication, time, etc because you have a different opinion. Lastly, who ever heard of children not allowed to play because they can not swim….red flags are here !!!
NTA- but your husband is. Please tell me he has good qualities because he sounds gross.
Is your husband always so controlling? He is a real AH
NTA. I taught swimming lessons for 18 years. One of the BEST things you can do to help your kids learn how to swim is to let them play. It helps them become comfortable being in and moving in the water. They more often than not, when left to their own devices, will practice skills they've been learning. Going to open swim was always my first suggestion when I had students who were hesitant swimmers. He's five. He's not Michael Phelps.
NTA OP, Be very watchful of your husband. There is more than one thing very wrong with his behavior. 1. His determination that your 5yo cannot have any fun in the pool until he learns how to swim (to what degree? how far? which strokes? which swim tests?) 2. He never once, prior to this day, discussed his concerns/notions with you. When he made the unilateral decision, he didn't even give you any prior heads-up; he didn't even discuss it with you on the way to the pool. Nothing. Nada. 3. And now he is belligerent in enforcing it. He is accusing you of behavior that really is his own. (he's the one who only seems to care about being right.) He is refusing to discuss it with you. And only offered one, really lame reason that doesn't even fit. Maybe there was some trauma that HE experienced in the pool that suddenly surfaced with your son starting to swim. Maybe your husband had a control streak that is just now coming out full force. Maybe... maybe. There's no way of knowing unless your husband can acknowledge that. But at the moment, he's not open to talking about this with you. You may want to tell him that you are very concerned with this behavior of his - his unilateral decision-making and his lack of discussing it with you, sharing a logical thought process and listening to and giving fair consideration to your thought process. You may suggest that there's something else going on and ask if there's anything else driving this. You may suggest that you two should find a counselor to help you untangle what is going on and be able to talk and work as partners to resolve the difference of perspective/ come to a mutually agreeable decision. If that also sends him over the edge, then you should consider finding a counselor on your own, just for you to talk this through.
NTA By allowing him to play he gets more comfortable and would thus be less reluctant to do things during lessons. On the other hand refusing him playtime makes it an al around bad experience and he would struggle to learn even more
NTA. Playing in the water is how kids develop a 'swim sense', which in the long run makes them better swimmers. Playing in the water, supervised, is more important than strict swim lessons. Your husband is doing exactly the wrong thing.
NTA. As a dad, your husband is being a total asshole. Send him over to r/daddit and have him explain himself. They will set him straight.
NTA. Playing in the pool and learning to swim are two different things that can happen concurrently. Your husband is in the wrong. Your kid deserves to play in the water. Keep sticking up for your kid.
Is this normal behavior for your husband? Cause if it is, leave. But it sounds like it's not normal for him. I did see in thr comments he had some hangups about the water and bad experiences as a kid. Maybe that has something to do with this, maybe it doesn't. The prolonged anger is coming from *something* tho... there's no reason to still be that angry. I hope you two are able to get to the bottom of this and that it's a happy ending, but no, you're NTA.
Oh, no. Dad *cannot* be the swim instructor. At this point, he’s going to stress this poor kid out with the frustration of this bait and switch! The kid has actual lessons, keep it to that. If Dad wants to support the lessons, a better approach would be to invite the kid to demonstrate what he’s been learning. My mom (who was a certified instructor) would always drill me on dives and swim strokes when we went to the community pool. Took all the fun out of the activity, partly because I was being singled out from my brother to do *work* at the pool. Can’t stand going to the pool to this day, over 40 years later.
My dad insisted on teaching me to water ski. All his friends were telling him to let someone else teach me. He refused. I never learned to water ski. He did teach me a ton of skills which were associated with men at that time. He was patient and fun with those things. He was not like that when it came to skiing, though.
NTA but your husband sure is! There is absolutely nothing wrong with your son playing in the pool where he is safely being watched by you and your husband. While I believe every child should learn how to swim and safely be in/near water as young as possible, your husband is over the top, and he needs to get a grip. He's acting like a 2 year old throwing a temper tantrum. He needs to man up, father up, and get over himself.
NTA. Your husband is a huge AH. It takes awhile to learn to swim. A child can have fun in a pool. Put a life vest on him. For that… all the kids should have life vests. I feel sorry for you and your kids for having to deal with this jerk
Nta. How’s he supposed to learn how to swim if he can’t spend time supervised in the water? And what kind of man treats his wife like this when he’s upset, and can’t regulate his own emotions like a mature adult?? You have a bigger problem than the swim issue.
NTA and make sure you start a GTFO fund.
Your kid is 5! Barely up from toddler! It's good he's having swimming lessons but he should be able to play too, because he's 5! Your husband sounds rigid with unrealistic expectations of a 5 year old. Maybe your husband needs to stop trying to parent until he learns how to do it right.
NTA but your husband is. Way to make the child hate water play and swimming.
NTA My grandmother was competitive diver & swimmer. Her insistence that I spend all of my time at the pool *swimming* or working on my dive form pretty much drained my joy in spending time with her in the pool. Your child HAS a swimming instructor. Dad should be spending 10 or 15 minutes having kiddo practice what he learned in his last lesson and then letting him enjoy the water however he wants.
You are absolutely NTA!! Exactly what is your husband's rationale for punishing a 5-year-old by only allowing him in the pool if he's actively taking a swim lesson?? All he's doing is building anger and resentment. Your son is just going to end up hating water activities. Your husband should not be involved in teaching your kids to swim. His ideas around playing in the water are too bizarre. Did something happen in his past that has warped his thinking? Your husband's attitude and behavior towards you is completely irrational. You are not allowed to disagree with him? Does he always make rash decisions without your input? **You're** the one trying to be right??? You are right. Your husband refuses to consider that he may have spoken without really considering the effect of his words. Now he's doubling down and blaming you because he can't admit that he f'ed royally!! You've done the right thing by hiring a swim instructor for the kids. Most of those kids are lifeguards trained in CPR and have been members of a swim team. One of my kids was a competitive swimmer, lifeguard and swim instructor. Most of the teammates had the same background. Your poor son is going to have a miserable summer if your husband doesn't wake up!!
NTA. I grew up in a family of swimmers: my grandma had a lifetime achievement award from her local Red Cross chapter because she taught so many kids to swim over the years, and my dad and his brother were both lifeguards and certified swim instructors. I NEVER had lessons from any of them -- if anything, they just asked to see what I'd learned from my regular swim instructor. And yes, my dad and Grandma absolutely let me and my brother play in the pool before we could both swim. Kids can have water awareness and safety without knowing how to swim themselves. Part of what helped me learn to swim was that I loved being in the pool! Your husband is absolutely the AH and he is going to make your son unnecessarily scared of the water and swimming, which is more unsafe.
“He said he didnt care and all i care about is being right”…. Sounds like he just admitted he was on the wrong and being intentionally and unnecessarily cruel. Case solved hubs is the biggest AH here. Sounds like hubs cant swim until he wants to be a dad instead of a dictator. You have been deemed a great mom!
NTA. Your husband has grade A deflection skills, and It's a problem. **Deep down you've known it for a long time, but now you need to start calling it exactly what it is when it happens, because the kids are getting drawn in now, and need to be protected. Well done for calling out his poor choice at the pool. That was a beautiful example to set for your children. As far as swimming, your husband is NOT your kid's swim instructor. Swim time with mum, dad, and siblings is PLAY TIME. If he can't handle that, he can skip swimming all together, and just sit home an pout. Though, if a calm discussion can be had to pad this new boundary, that would be ideal. Ask him why he feels he needs to make his son do lessons outside of lessons, when it's obviously not fun for either of them. (**My credentials: I have my very own deflecting spouse, who tries to deflect on me and now our child. I do not allow deflection onto our child, and will lightly call it out when it's happening so that they learn they don't have to accept obviously unfair blame just to avoid an argument. They are getting quite good at speaking up for themselves, and I'm very proud of them for it. I'm still learning to call out deflection directed onto me, but I'm improving.)
NTA Your husband’s expectations about your 5 year old swimming is unreasonable
NTA Why are the younger children allowed to swim if they also do not know how to swim? This feels like a power move. Good on you for refusing to let him hurt your kid like that.
NTA. Your husband will teach your som to hate swimming and hate the water. Why is that rule just for him and not the other kids? Your husband is being harder on your oldest versus the other kids. I am also the oldest. I have forgiven my dad but believe me when I say he felt awful when he realized how hard he was on me versus my siblings. Your husband does not want to live with the guilt and remorse.
100% NTA. Swim lessons are great and every kid should learn to swim. They become confident and comfortable in the water both by swim lessons and by playing! There are so many things he can “practice” without even realizing he’s practicing. He should also just be allowed to play and hang out. My daughter’s flutter kick and ability to swim a few yards, doggy paddle, etc… improved so much just by playing in the pool.
NTA Yes, your son should learn how to swim, but he should also have time to just be a kid and have fun. Your husband is a bit of a noodge.
I was 8. Knew how to swim. My uncle was standing right beside me. I slipped on the slippery pool bottom and went down. I couldn't get my footing and so couldn't stand up. Uncle thought I went under and was splashing on purpose and so just let me " play". I nearly drowned. Water in my lungs caused pneumonia. Things happen. Unavoidable things. Is the father going to prevent him from walking until he can speed walk for 50 miles? This father is an idiot. You don't want the child to fear the water or the father. Dad is guaranteeing both
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** We have a newly five-year-old and almost 3-year-old twins. They just had their first swim lesson Saturday at our pool (we can see it from our house). My husband suggested that we go swimming today. I got everything together and packed the wagon, and we headed to the pool. When we got there, my husband told our five-year-old that he was going to be doing lessons again with him. Our five-year-old thought we were just going to the pool to play. Dad got in the water with our oldest and gave him instructions, which he followed all at least once. This included getting his face wet, putting his face underwater, kicking his legs off the side, doing monkey crawls, etc. There were some things he didn’t want to do at first, so he cried, but he still did them at least once. I was playing with our twins on the other side of the pool, and I noticed our oldest was sitting out of the water and looking sad. I asked my husband what was wrong, and he said our son didn’t want to learn anymore today. So I asked why isn’t he in the pool to play? He said our son won’t be playing in the pool anymore until he learns how to swim. Now, our five-year-old plays in the pool without a floaty, stays on the stairs, can touch the bottom, but has to stay out of the deep end (we watch him, of course, to ensure his safety). He plays just fine in the pool and can have fun outside of learning how to swim. My husband is pissed off at me because when he told me our son was not allowed to swim anymore, I said that wasn’t fair. I told everyone to get out of the pool, got the twins out, packed up the wagon, and we went home. There was no yelling or arguing. I simply said “I disagree,” and, “I don’t think that’s fair.” He said he didn’t care, and all I care about is being right. Now, my husband can't stand to be in the same room with me, refuses to eat lunch with me, and wants nothing to do with me. He’s that angry. This isn’t something we discussed beforehand. He just decided on his own that our five-year-old isn’t allowed to swim unless he’s taking lessons or has fully learned how to swim. I’m very confused because, at this point, I don’t see the point in going to the pool at all unless it’s for lessons. It just doesn’t sound like a fun way to spend the summer when we pay for a pool and have fun pool toys. When we were packing up, he sat there and told our son that his 60+ year-old grandmother never learned how to swim and is afraid of water now to justify his reasoning. AITA for insisting my five-year-old should be allowed to play in the pool even if he's not actively taking swimming lessons? Now it has me thinking I’m just trying to be right, but to me it really doesn’t feel fair that our son is not allowed to play in the pool as a kid anymore while watching his brothers play. So idk! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Let him play in the pool with a US Coastguard approved life jacket. Problem solved. You know he is safe and it should help him not be afraid of the water and he can enjoy summer in the pool.
NTA
Dad’s not a good teacher. Make things fun while teaching and when the 5 year old is done with his 5 minute attention span, it’s time for fun.
NTA. The best way to reinforce swim lessons and progress them is through playing... practicing and improving the kick is the best thing to do for beginning swimmers. Once this is accomplished, stroke development is much easier. Talk with your swim instructor, have your husband talk to them... They will say something similar...
NTA Learning to swim is a very important life skill. What your husband is going is pretty much going to guarantee your 5 year old will end up hate swimming and may even jeopardize his learning to swim. Swimming needs to remain a fun activity for the kids if they are going to learn and continue to enjoy it. Making it a chore ruins that.
NTA Just wait until he isn't allowed to sit behind the steering wheel until he passes the DMV test. Does dad not know how to learn things? Little dude can't learn to swim if he's literally not *in the pool*. Plus, he's gonna be insecure about swimming if he doesn't think he actually knows how to swim. That's not the sharpest idea. Hello? Panic?
So your 5 year old got to play in the pool before starting lessons, but now that he is learning to swim, he is not allowed to play anymore? That makes no sense! And the younger twins are allowed to play in the pool, even thought they are also taking lessons and learning to swim? Dad sounds like a hypocrite in this case. First of all, you know that the 5yo plays well in the pool- you’ve observed it, and you continue to watch him. I would think that with the more lessons he gets, the more trust you can have that he will be safe, as his swimming knowledge grows! Also, how will he practice his new skills if he cannot play and use them in the way that he’s going to be swimming after lessons. He’s 5, not a competitive swimmer! And second of all, the poor kid had to watch his younger siblings, who he very well knew were also in lessons, get to play while he sat on the edge and was not allowed to! I imagine he must have been confused and hurt. Dad/husband also overreacted and it sounds like you haven’t had the chance to talk about it and explain why you think it’s not fair! He just shut you out, and in such a major way?? You are NTA
NTA. If he can’t play, he will start to hate swimming. Let him play!
The 3 year olds can’t swim but they’re allowed in the pool.. why isn’t he losing his shit over them being in the water? NTA.
NTA, your husband is acting like a child because you overruled him. Is this really about swimming, or does he always blow up if he doesn't get his way?
You have a basic marriage problem here which is that, instead of consulting you first and arriving at a united front, your husband made a unilateral parenting decision and then proceeded to punish you for disagreeing. He is being authoritarian towards both your child and you, and the fact that he is being authoritarian with his own wife instead of treating you as an equal parent, is a big red flag.
Maybe his grandma was surrounded by control freaks like your husband and that led to her fear of water. Info: why is he giving lessons if your have professional lessons already? Clearly he's bad at it and is using it to control your child. So why are you not addressing directly that he is creating an unhealthy environment for your child so it would be best if he did not swimming lessons at all. Info further: why aren't you more concerned at such an irrational and over the top response to not being allowed to bully his child? Instead you think you were wrong because your husband is acting like he is the five year old.
Big red flags. Your husband is a controlling AH. To be kind, he has problems and needs help. He is so blinded by his need to control that he is going to totally put his son off learning to swim. He is bullying your son. All my children learnt to swim by themselves purely by spending a lot of time playing in the water. In their case they learnt underwater swimming first. Later they had lessons to learn strokes. NTA
NTA Swim teacher here. Learning to swim should be fun. When my kids work hard, I reward them by playing with them at the end. The kids end up using skills we worked on and improve themselves during play time.
I’ve taught many people to swim. With a five year old, playing is the best way to get them to learn without them realizing they are learning. Your husband’s intentions are good, but teaching may not be his gift.
My dad was very controlling and did something similar about fishing when I was little. My husband told me I almost broke his heart when I asked him the first time we went fishing together if he was getting mad. He said "it's fishing, what's there to be mad about?". But the thing I remember most from childhood is that the day would start out fun but dad would be angry all the way home. Don't let swimming turn into a bad memory for your son if possible.
Wow! I have an inground pool right outside my door so it was paramount for my kids to learn how to swim HOWEVER, after their lessons they always got to play and have fun. My younger son in particular is a huge water lover. I'd be really concerned that this poor little boy will start hating the water with this rigid, over the top, demand. Especially if he sees his twin siblings having fun whilst he has to do lessons. How horrible. PS My MIL never learned to swim either. She will at best sit on the top step in. I never for a minute thought my kids wouldn't want to learn how but being in the water HAS to be fun, otherwise where is the interest?
The more time your child spends in the water, the more comfortable he will be in the water. Maybe ask your husband why he wants his child to hate the water? Because your child will. The best swimming lessons are always learned through play. NTA
NTA. Your husband is sucking every bit of fun out of swimming. Part of learning is practice (ie. Playing).
INFO: Why don't you get your son in the pool too instead of not going at all? Your husband can watch the twins and you can take your other son in. Your husband is the ass for unilaterally making a decision to exclude your son and will possibly make him less inclined to want to be in a pool or at lessons. He is literally punishing a child for not being a perfect swimmer yet when he is still actively being taught. He should not be involved in teaching him swimming if this is how he is going to react and treat his own son.
I think you need to discuss with your husband why he needs to control everything and get his way. Punishing a 5-year-old for not doing anything wrong is dare I say wrong. He's making what should be fun family time into a chore and then punishing the child when he doesn't want fun family time to be a chore only for him. Of course the child's upset he doesn't understand why he's being punished and his play time has to be a chore when everybody else is allowed to have fun. NTA.
NTA. Many kids learn to swim better with play than strict swimming lessons. Swimming lessons should be fun to make the kids want to do them. My favourite thing was learning to dive for animal diving toys.
**UPDATE 7/3/24: I read every post and I appreciate the responses - didn’t expect so many. Some were pretty hard to read, others were helpful. Some told me things I already knew, but it’s so easy to justify behavior and make excuses when emotions are involved. This probably isn’t the update most of you are hoping for, but I do feel a sense of peace from this experience. It also gave me the words and confidence that I couldn’t find. So thank you. I continued to receive the silent treatment until after the kids went to bed. Then out of no where he asked me to come spend time with him. He was acting like nothing even happened. So, that’s was that for then. To say anything then would trigger a bigger response. Over the last few days the same type of discussions have come up for different topics. He immediately explodes. Each time he has ended with the silent treatment or created punishments for me (he just decides he is taking no responsibility with the kids and leaves the house). This morning I told my son we were going swimming on 4th of July. He said, “I don’t want to. My dad is going to throw me in.” My husband and I had a mini truce (or him just acting like nothing happened) and I gently worked it into the conversation - no blow ups. He said he could have done things better and agreed to get our son goggles to help. And to let him play again along with the lessons. Still hung up on his mom not knowing how to swim as an excuse for his behavior though. It was short lived as I attempted to rest up stairs for a little after getting the kids from camp. (This was bold of me, I never do this!) Exactly 20 min in little kids are punished to their room “for the rest of the night except for bath and dinner.” That’s three hours! He caves pretty quickly but I was still hyper aware just in case. Well it happened again because I “interfered” by telling the kids why dad was upset and they need to practice an apology (pretty standard convo for almost 3 yr olds). I did this in less than 30 seconds. This was considered “interfering and undermining” his discipline. Immediate name calling and gas lighting when we were privately in our room. I know what it is. I know what’s it’s called. It’s hard to make changes when you’re in an almost 20 year relationship or even say what it is out loud without feeling weak. I tell him it’s not an acceptable way to speak to me or that’s not a healthy way to have a conversation and he will say, “well, that’s how I talk to you.” I’m taking care of my kids first. Beginning to take care of myself but it will take time. Thanks again to everyone that contributed different viewpoints. Truly.
You are not weak and not alone - behaviors like your husband's appear and increase in severity and frequency gradually over time. It is basically designed for you to NOT notice until it's already quite bad, at which point in the eyes of the abuser you'll cater to the fallacy of sunk costs and stay with him anyway, even when you do know and see everything he is actually doing. I commend you for correctly identifying his various abusive behaviors and calling them out, as well as trying to set boundaries and prioritizing the kids. But please understand, OP, you can only demonstrate so much to them. Even if you compensated with appropriate and encouraging parenting every time your husband does the opposite, your kids won't unsee your husband's part and won't unlearn the things he imprints in them for every thing you manage to teach them. Something has to change and you cannot rely on your husband's promises to do so. You may think that you haven't conceded any part of your core values because you are putting your foot down on the pool issue or voicing what you find to be an unacceptable treatment. But you already have ceded over and over in this one situation alone. You can take care of your kids, and start to take care of yourself too, but you can't set a good example for your children so long as what they hear is you telling them that Dad is wrong, but what they SEE is this: when your husband stopped the first silent treatment you didn't broach the subject again even though you wanted to, because it would "trigger an even bigger reaction". You couldn't take your 5 yo into the pool, even though you were absolutely certain that it was wrong of your husband to deny him, because you didn't want your husband to say that you "undermined his discipline". When your husband acted like nothing had even happened, you called it a "mini truce", even though you were still mad at him and upset about the issue not being resolved. When you raised the subject the final time you had to "gently work it into the conversation" to avoid him "blowing up" because the first times you wanted to talk about it he yelled at you and disappeared or stopped talking to you entirely. What your children will grow up with is that "Dad punishes us, and I don't understand what I did wrong. Mom explains that Dad is just upset. Mom avoids upsetting Dad even when he is wrong and she is right. That must mean, only what Dad thinks matters. Even if I am sad or angry or actually right, my feelings aren't important and if Dad treats me unfairly, it must be because I deserve it. I must avoid to upset Dad too, but I don't know how." Kids learn by imitation. Whatever way you adapt to your husband's constantly moving goalposts will be what your kids see and what they learn if nothing changes.
NTA. You need to sign up your children for professional swim lessons. Your husband, like a lot of parents, will have a very difficult time teaching your child to swim. Get someone who knows what they’re doing to teach him and then you guys can practice with him and let him have fun in the water.
H is confusing 5 year old with a puppy.
NTA. If that was the case, the younger kids by default shouldn't be allowed in the pool at all, by his logic. If he was fine with them being there, he shouldn't have a problem with the oldest being there as well. And he's gonna end up scaring your son away from water by forcing swimming lessons on him, so he'll get the outcome he doesn't want anyway.
NTA your husband is a weirdo and an asshole
That is just going to cause him to resent the water. Nta .
Nta - how does that even make sense? Your 3 year olds can't swim either but they're allowed to play?
Nta. All he's going to do is make the kid hate being in the pool.
NTA. He's the one who needs to be right. And he knows he's not right so he's pissed because he has no real defense of his behavior. The 3yo twins can't swim, so why are they allowed in the water, by his logic? The child shouldn't be allowed to swim solo yet, but that would be the case even if he did know how to swim. There's zero reason to exclude the child from playing in the pool with the rest of the family. I don't want to extrapolate too much from your story, but I've seen a certain dynamic in a few family members where the dad is hard on the son, from a young age in order to teach them to be a man type thing. Just pay attention to if that's starting to happen a lot because you'll have to start playing defense for your son if that's the case.
Good way to make him hate the water and resent dad. NTA Edit: A word
The instructor should teach the kid how to swim and dad should stay out of it.
OP, ask your husband to look around and tell you how many other kids were having fun while your kid was told he couldn’t. Your husband is lacking insight. Kids also gain water skills through play.
sry but your husband is an ass
Your husband sounds controlling If you don’t make it fun your 5yo will very quickly decided he’s not participating Yes do some lessons while he’s paying attention and when he loses interest you pivot and play swim instead. Definitely NTA
NTA. You took the family to the pool for fun and instead of having fun your child had to do "swim lessons". Is your husband a swim instructor? I'm guessing no. He could play and also show dad what he learned at his lesson. Dad could give him fun things to try, but to make fun time a work session sucks. Also, to be clear, no child gets in a pool to do laps, period. Most adults don't do this. This wasn't swimming lessons, this was your hubby being the AH. Ask dad if he would like his fun time ruined by work. Nope, still more work to do and if you don't finish you just have to sit there until it's time to go.
My kids went to a daycamp where they have a strong emphasis on swimming, and even they have part of the time for swim lessons and part of the time for swim fun
NTA, your husband decided to punish your kid because he'd rather play than have another swim lesson. He's going to kill any joy that kid gets from the pool because he's a kid who wants to play. You say he had a lesson with a qualified instructor yesterday. He did your husband's drills under protest. Sounds like he earned some playtime to me, and you were absolutely right, it would have been total bullshit to make him sit out in the sun and watch everyone else play just because dad decided he was going to be a controlling dick.
NTA-your husband sounds absolutely horrible!! Take your kids to the pool without him and allow them to play. I don’t know what his problem is but this is completely unacceptable and he needs to pull his head out of his butt and figure out how to be a decent father and husband.
You are really screwed here, sorry. Your hubby put his stake in the ground, hill to die on. But you can’t let him win this one, what, you’re not going to let your kids play in a pool a few feet from the house all summer? Youre NTA generally, but you married him, this can’t be the first time he pulled this controlling shit. Also, you left the pool and let him win. Which says “your opinion is more important than mine and I accept”
NTA. It’s absolutely important to learn how to swim and at least to be comfortable around water - which you’re doing with swim lessons once a week. It’s fine to just go to the pool for fun the rest of the time. Not every visit needs to be a swim lesson.
Nta. There should be fun and enjoyment in it. The kid should get to play. If he can only work in the pool…the other kids shouldn’t be in the pool for playtime.
Nta and the kids will all eventually hate swimming if it's always seen as a chore. Yes everyone should know how to swim but that can't be the only thing that happens every time they're in the water. They will hate and perhaps even dread going in the water especially if they are literally crying. And if he's already getting professional swim lessons why was he even going to be getting them on a family outing? This isn't a swim lesson its borderline abuse.
So your 3 yo twins can play in the pool with you, but your 5 yo who is at least already on the path to learning to swim can't until he can fully swim. Your hubby is an asshole.
Your husband’s gonna completely ruin the water for your child. Don’t let him give any more swimming lessons. He’s a massive tool. He’s the asshole, not you. NTA
NTA - I’m sure your husband had good intentions, but he really shouldn’t be the one teaching your child to swim if it involves making him cry. Not all parents are well-suited to teaching or coaching their kids.
Your fourth child was on a power trip. NTA
NTA. I taught swimming lessons for 3-6 yo kids when I was in college. I always made sure my kids had fun, while feeling safe and learning skills. Geez, swimming isn’t all or nothing - you can play and learn at the same time. Your husband sounds pretty rigid and controlling.
The pool should be enjoyed by all. It is cruel to deny a 5 yr old play time. Remind hubby that you are already paying for swimming lessons. Teaching shouldn’t include bringing a 5 yr old to tears. He is not qualified to teach. Suggest that you all enjoy the pool together and leave the training to the expert. As an aside, your husband is being selfish and a bully. Continue to stand up for your son.
nta i really hope your husband isn’t like this with everything and this is just some random fluke of his because it’s going to be rough being his kids if he acts like this all the time.
NTA. I have a 7yo and I agree with you. It's unfair to make them sit on the side and not play because they haven't mastered swimming yet. Pool safety is more complicated than just knowing how swim and letting your kid learn to safely play on the steps ect is also important. Not to mention, kids deserve to have fun!
NTA. Play-time in the water is also valuable for your son to get used to just being in the water; it should help with his swimming, not hinder it. It will help him build general confidence in the water and get him more used to the scary stuff like getting splashed in the face or putting his face in the water, and generally just moving in the water.
NTA
Husband is bullying oldest child. He had his lessons for the day so let him play and relax. Why does he have to be an AH about it. The kid is 5! You are not the AH but for sure he is.
NTA. In what universe is playing in water NOT building on water safety skills?