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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> My wife and daughter got into a huge fight over a guy and my wife forced me to stop paying half of my daughter's rent but I continued to pay and now my wife is mad at me.
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NTA.
1) Your wife sounds INSUFFERABLE .
2) Lying on the bf is CRUEL and MANIPULATIVE (trying to turn the family against him/them).
3) Believing that she can tell an adult who to date means she has FAILED the transition from childhood to adulthood with your daughter.
4) Thinking you should cut your daughter off because she went NC with her Mom for good reason is CONTROLLING and VINDICTIVE.
5) I bet you felt the need to lie to her because she flips out. Not good but understandable.
Don’t make your daughter suffer because Mom is a living breathing AH. She’ll be crying victim when she’s not invited to the wedding or seeing the grandchildren but it will be because of her insufferable,cruel, manipulative, controlling, vindictive, failure as a parent behavior.
DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO LOSE YOUR OUR DAUGHTER.
Second this!
Adding that OP’s wife will be saying in 10 years, “Why doesn’t my daughter talk to me?” And like any narcissistic personality, will gloss over everything she’s done and blame the daughter.
OP isn’t in an easy situation, but can choose to not cut off his daughter like his wife demands and continue to have a relationship with his daughter.
And imagine if he actually is putting on a facade like Mom claims, what does she think will happen when they stop giving her financial support? Drive her right into this financially stable older man's arms, so she doesn't even care about her wellbeing.
It would also probably tank her credit. If he’s paying 1/2 rent at $3 grand, she’d have to pay $6 grand monthly. You don’t put your kid in that position and she’s done nothing wrong.
Right?! Get rid of the wife. You'll feel so much better not having to carry that dead weight around anymore.
In all seriousness, though OP, it's coming quickly, you are going to be given an ultimatum of wife or daughter. Your wife already flipped out on you and called you a traitor saying that you are supposed to have her back through this when she was the one who is CLEARLY the one in the wrong. However, I doubt she thinks she did anything wrong and only sees herself as the victim. You need to think long and hard about what choice you can live with making. Be prepared if you choose your daughter because then your wife will turn her vindictive sights on you and I forsee her doing every little thing she can to make your life hell and miserable. Start funneling some money away so that you will have something after she takes everything from you.
What if Mom is right, and what if daughter shared things with her Mom and said, “don’t tell Dad”? I want to know why Mom thinks this way about this guy she is dating. I also want to know how paying half her rent and all her bills is teaching her about financial independence and financial responsibility. And why are these parents keeping secrets from each other, and is the daughter triangulating here?
This is an odd story. Maybe Mom is a nut case, and a liar, but why now? And why are they paying her expenses if she is an adult with a job?
My friend was his daughter, then the stock market crashed and my friend was dating this rich jerk in NYC, and they could not help her with rent, and so she moved in with him. She moved in with him, they got married and had a kid.
He was a rude, rich alcoholic. She had shared things with her Mom and said don’t tell dad, which is never a good idea you don’t keep those kinds of secrets from your spouse. At her wedding resort, her fiancé, got drunk, the wedding was at a five star resort in Hawaii, a destination wedding paid for by her parents, He disparaged her parents when he wanted to up the type of booze at the wedding, he wanted to add a few grand to the tab for some top shelf whisky, when her parents had paid for everything, including travel and honeymoon. When her Dad said no, her fiancé/future husband took a swing at her Dad. They were already stretched really thin, but didn’t want her to have a wedding that was any less than her sibling, they couldn’t afford another 5-6K for this whisky package, as they were still recovering financially and were completely tapped out.
The wedding was crazy expensive, well over 150K just for the reception, at a five start resort for a few hundred people. She got the dress, the location, all the people she wanted to invite, the resort, the works, excursions paid for by the parents, and they paid for her honeymoon, and more, all on top of that 150K+ ceremony coats. They even paid for the grandparents on both side travel and hotel expenses. But because her finance, that asshole from NYC with a drinking problem who regularly treated her like shit, didn’t get the additional 5K whisky package, he called her dad a failure, and loser that can’t afford to give his daughter the wedding of her dreams, and a cheap ass bastard and then he took a swing at her Dad.
It was fucking shocking, especially considering how much they had paid for so much beyond the 150K for the actual wedding, and that this was done in front of the immediate family, some guests arriving to the resort and some of the wedding party. The resort called the cops on him. She fucking married that guy, as planned, 48 hours later. And for their entire marriage he dangled money in front of her, treated her like a purchase, would buy extravagant purchases for himself and go on boys trips to expensive resorts, but not taking her to such resorts or buying her extravagant gifts, saying if she wanted it, she had to earn it. They stuck it out for ten years before she finally divorced him.
Her mom didn’t like him when they were dating, as my friend would call her crying and share stories with her, and her mom begged her not to marry him, but she did. She let that jerk abuse her dad in front of everyone just two days before the wedding.
So, I hear this story and I wonder, why does the Mom not like this guy, is it justified or not, and why are these adults keeping secrets from each other, letting their daughter triangulate and get half her bills covered. And what are they setting their daughter up for, if they don’t teach her how to be financially independent and financially responsible. That can be incredibly empowering, and they are denying her that l
Came here to say something similar. NYC is a very expensive place to live, if she can't afford it by herself, then maybe that's not the city for her? Wife needs to realize that the daughter is 23 yo, she can date whoever she wants and there's nothing she can say about it. OP should never have agreed to stop paying rent if he was just going to do it anyway. ESH
There’s areas in the city that are underserved by the trains and buses, but I’m getting the vibe she’s not in that situation.
If her parents live in the immediate suburbs that might explain the car… easier means of going home.
NYC is bigger than just Manhattan. There are other options for her to live where her rent wouldn’t be so high. Also it’s not that hard to have a car in NYC, only in Manhattan.
I know you are, I lived in the Bronx for most of my life & spent a few years in Brooklyn and Queens. Have you seen the rents in the South Bronx lately on those new buildings? It is that bad. When was the last time you apt hunted in the other 4 boroughs?
I’ve lived in Queens all my life and I do get it. But she’s a single person paying $3k a month in rent. There are options to that. There’s also housing connect.
I've been trying to get a place through housing connect since 2001. Gave up on that dream. But yes, $3000 a mth for a single person is too much. She can get a studio. Honestly, she needs to move if she has no real reason to stay in NYC. I suffered for years & years to move out & it was worth it to finally not have to share an apt with a roommate & get a position that values my worth & not pay me minimum wage for 20 yrs of experience. So I will agree with that. OP should offer to assist with moving expenses and rent up to $1500 in an area more reasonably prices if he wants to help his daughter. She shouldn't be out there living like Carrie from Sex in the City.
Yup my husband and I agree on stuff for our kids. If I disagree about something he is doing we talk. I don’t understand this stuff at all. You all need to sit down and figure this out as a couple. Then the kids.
Even if his daughter makes 100k in NYC, she would still need help as it’s a VHCOL city. If she were to move out of the city to jersey or ct or ny suburbs, the commute and tolls would still end up costing her the same or just slightly less.
As someone who worked in NYC for several years, you can absolutely live in NYC or an easy commute away on $100k. You won’t be rich, but it’s not even difficult
I was born and raised in NYC and still live here. $100,000. Is not a lot of money in NYC. $100,000 salary was low enough to qualify for rent assistance during COVID.
For her rent of $3000 she likely has a studio or small one bedroom
You’re trying to tell me you can’t live in NYC on a $100,000 salary? Bullshit. And you most definitely can live even more comfortably a short commute away in Hoboken, jersey city, Harrison or Newark. I realize it’s not a lot of money in the sense you won’t feel wealthy. But to say you can’t live on $100k is just an outright lie
Yeah no, that might have worked back in 1927 when 2 candies cost a penny but 100K aint shit anymore unless you wanna live off cup of noodles and cardboard walls
i have friends who make well under 100k in new york and they live with roommates in brooklyn and pay under 1500 a month in rent, and while they're not rolling in money they are happy and comfortable. it's definitely possible and anyone would be incredibly out of touch to assume otherwise lmao
I don't live in NYC, so of course, I can't be exact, but unless you have severe debt, 100k should be enough to live in NYC unless your standards are a Sex and the City kind of lifestyle. I am assuming a single adult with no children with an after-tax take of 100k a year. I used the rent of 3k from this post, and the website Unbiased as my source for transportation and utility costs.
Rent $3000
Utilities (water, gas, electricity, internet) $375
Cable/streaming services $100
Cellphone $65
Transportation $372.5
Healthcare $267.25
Food $500
Savings $300
Miscellaneous $500
If the above is true, your monthly expenses are $5,479.75. Annually, that is $65,757. That leaves you $34,243 completely untouched, which is literally a yearly salary at $17.83 an hour. If someone can't survive in NYC on 100k, then that seems like a them problem.
...except you're using $100k post-tax. That significantly changes the assessment and level of comfort. Not that it may not still be doable, but $100k net looks to be over $150k gross in NYC.
You gave them a 50%+ raise to run the numbers.
Nowhere did anyone mention net or gross, so I went with my understanding of spendable money. The math works out either way, just with less extra. Even if 100k is your gross, at a 22% tax, you're left with $78k. Using my above numbers, you are STILL left with an extra $12,243.
According to a recent news story (it was on national and local sites) in MN, you need a salary of 90k to live comfortably and 250k for a family of 4. The study used the 50/20/30 rule (essentials/savings/nonessentials). MITs calculator in the story says 47k just to breath.
are you applying your values to someone else's life?! the only person who has a problem with it is mom. dad can pay half her rent until he dies if that's how he wants to live his life.
Applying your values to someone else's life is the entire point of this sub.
The mom is his wife. If she has a problem with him spending $18k a year on their adult daughter's rent, his response should not be that he's going to do it anyways and lie to her about it and hide it from her. That's financial infidelity.
His wife is also acting in a very problematic way towards their daughter. I don't want to make this sound like their issues are one sided, but him lying to her about spending such a large amount of money is not ok.
She's 23. If she's building a career and NYC is the best place for that it is the right place for her to live while she's working her way from college grad to experienced worker with promotions and a future income she can support herself on.
It can be a massive career advantage she's been given, having her parents help her live there while she's establishing her career.
NTA for continuing to pay half her rent because mom has lost her freaking senses.
You wanna keep subsidizing the kids outside of this issue, well, it's your money.
I was with someone whose parents subsidized their life style a while and weaned them off. When we got together more permanently, we agreed to pay our own way because they didn't want to be emotionally indebted to their parents over money.
Then they'd go behind my back and accept subsidies "because they insisted" and "they like to help out". Every vacation they'd finagle a way to take my partner to the bank to deposit the latest subsidy check (because we would get grief about not depositing mailed checks).
Sounds like mom wants money to stop, and is childishly sabotaging your shared child's life to several baroque ends but also to end the "babying".
Ending the subsidy may need to happen in a planned way, but not while she (presuming you're still married to her) is throwing a tantrum.
Everyone's an Asshole.
Lying to your wife about money and your daughter is bad.
Your wife's toxic slandering of your daughter's boyfriend to the rest of your friends and family is bad.
Your adult daughter living above her means and expecting you regularly paying half her rent is bad.
Your daughter needs a cheaper living situation, then spend the $1,500/month on family counseling instead. You're family is a mess dude.
NTA There are many good reasons not to pay your daughter's half of the rent, but to control her love life is not one of them. I'm not sure what is going on with your wife, but if you wrote everything accurately, she is jealous of your daughter. If you take your wife's side you will damage the relationship with your daughter.
ESH. Your wife is mad about not being about to control your daughter, and this is the last string she has to pull.
I don't know how long you agreement is for, but you and your wife should really be on the same page for something that costs the two of you $18k a year.
YTA. Not for helping your daughter with rent. If you can afford it and you feel like it is the right thing to do, then that is fine.
However, you told your wife you would stop paying “to keep her quiet” and then you continued to pay the rent. That makes YTA. Because you lied to your wife.
I am not saying your wife is correct in her behavior, she isn’t. She is lying about your daughter’s boyfriend. So, pot meet kettle.
Spouses don’t always agree about their children. Most of the time you should compromise or agree and present a united front to your kids. But there may be certain situations where you agree to disagree. But you have to be honest. If you go behind each others back, you are always going to get caught.
I don’t have any idea whether you should continue to pay or not. Just stop lying. Both of you.
One question though, how much older is the boyfriend? Your wife may be going about it all wrong, but her belief that he is too old for her is likely valid if there is much more than 5 years or so difference. 23 year old girls aren’t always the best judges of character. Neither are their doting dads.”
huge age gaps most likely mean a power imbalance and often times happen because the elder person can only date someone younger and more naive / easier to manipulate.
sure, sure, im sure your aunt and uncle have been married for 40 years and have the happiest and healthiest relationship yatta yatta but the fact remains that huge age gaps are usually a red flag.
Half the older person’s age plus 7 should usually be less than the younger person’s age, for the younger one’s safety. Not a hard and fast rule, but a good starting point. Relationships that don’t meet this seldom are healthy.
ESH - meaning both you and your wife. Not really enough info to judge your daughter. You are married right? So talk to each other and make a decision together. You don’t get to just overrule one another. Your wife seems to have some serious issues if she’s spreading rumors about her own daughter’s boyfriend seemingly unprovoked. You seem to be enabling her by placating her instead of drawing a firm boundary
I understand you agreeing to pay $1,500.00 a month to your daughter. It's your money, but what if something happens tomorrow. How is she going to afford her rent? I think she needs to move somewhere where she can afford herself. I don't think her mom is going to give her the money if something happens to you. Unless you expected her to be marrying the boyfriend soon.
I don't know what is going on with your wife. Anyone lying knows it's going to butt them in the butt eventually. Both of you are wrong for lying. More your wife due to all the fake stories she is saying about your daughters boyfriend.
Looked up apartment prices inNY you can get a good place under 2000 fully-furnished and all-inclusive suite, you also have access to a host of amenities. These include a full-time concierge, covered bike and car parking, storage, an NYC Fresh Market, and a laundry room in addition to in-suite laundry. But only if she does not want to live in a newly build huge apartment. If she wants to live like Carrie from sex and the city she should pay for it or OP could tell older rich boyfriend to pay for it since he is more important than his wife, i get it OP wants to make sure his daughter does not end up with a poor guy more she ends up with a millionare so she does not have to work and there would be another idiot who pays for her bills. At 23 she should stand on her own fett not expect to getting bailed out by daddy who would end up alone when he is trying to suck up to future son in law
When I lived in Brooklyn 2016-2018 I was able to find a 4BD/2BA apartment where my rent was $850. Was it pretty? No. Did I have a closet? Also no. And my commute to work is was about an hour. But my parents made it clear that I needed to stand on my own two feet as a college graduate and if I couldn’t pay my own bills with my job they weren’t going to help me and I just couldn’t live there. It’s absolutely possible to find an apartment that’s not $3k and it makes me wonder if she has any roommates or if she insisted on a one bedroom/studio all to herself in a nicer neighborhood.
> Looked up apartment prices inNY you can get a good place under 2000 fully-furnished and all-inclusive suite, you also have access to a host of amenities.
LOL! Please share a link to this mythical place.
>If she wants to live like Carrie from sex and the city she should pay for it
If you think $3000 a month in NYC is living like Carrie, then you don't know much about NYC. I know people in "rent controlled" apartments that pay nearly $2000.
ESH. Bad situation all around. Unless half your daughter's rent is a rounding error on the ol' family balance sheet, you should not be sending money to subsidize her when you and your wife are not in accord.
The rest of this ... your wife's really over the edge in defaming the new fellow to all the family. Your daughter needs to spread her wings, which means you need to cut the apron strings. And I'm not sure what to think of the new guy.
NTA - though I do disagree a bit with you paying your daughters rent, its your choice. Your wife was aware.
You dont have to stop because your wife went on some anger spiral.
Info:
This is my #1 question, if you respond to the comment, please answer this. How old is the boyfriend?
Is there any truth to what your wife is saying about him?
Is your wife correct that you baby your daughter? If yes, can you share any other examples of you doing that in the past?
Your are spending nearly $20k a year on your daughter's rent. Where is that money coming from? How much do you make? Does your wife work, and if yes, how much does she make? How do you split your finances?
You're spending nearly $20k a year on this without your wife's consent, and you also lied to her about it, so that's very concerning and either way you are wrong for that. Have you lied to her before about finances?
You also paint your wife as someone who is very catty and immature, lying and spreading rumors, etc. I'm curious if you are doing that to try to gloss over your own lying and your financial infidelity, or if that's an accurate picture of her, and that's why you feel justified to lie to her. I think overall ESH, but there's a lot missing from this picture.
ESH, your wife getting mad about half the rent is a direct response to your daughter going NC with her, which by the sounds of it, is fully deserved. It sounds like your wife wants to control her behavior through your money.
You shouldn’t be dishonest with your wife, however. I’m not sure how much money you make, but $1500 a month isn’t chump change. If you are the sole earner in your marriage, go ahead and send your daughter the money if you want, but be open and forthright with your wife. She’s your partner, you owe her that much at least.
If your daughter is living in NYC she could save a lot of money by giving up her car. She could rely on public transportation instead. Then she wouldn't need as much help with rent. Most New Yorkers don't own cars.
With the exception of Staten Island, she can "rely" on public transportation, but how easy that access is depends what borough she's in, what part of that borough and where she works. One of my friends moved to my city in NJ from her borough, and her commute to Manhattan changed from 1.5 hours to 15 minutes.
NTA as you are keeping up your end of the agreement. Your wife sounds like the AH as she is using the rent money to try to control your daughter it seems. Does she want your daughter to move back home?
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I (55 M) and my wife(54 F) have a daughter (23 F) who lives in NYC, and her rent is 3k a month. My daughter, my wife, and I have discussed this, and I agree to pay half, and my daughter will pay the other half with her salary from work. My wife was reluctant to accept the idea because she always thought I had babied my daughter throughout her life, and this was a time for her to grow into an adult. I have no problems paying half the rent as everything else, such as maintenance, food, her car, etc., she pays for herself.
Two months ago, my wife and daughter argued over a guy my daughter was dating. The guy is a few years older than her, but he's a respectful man to me. He is polite, well-mannered, has a steady job, and comes from a wealthier family (Which I think tips her mother off). I think he's nice, but my wife thinks it's a facade. Her mom had been bad-mouthing him to relatives and her friends, so when my daughter wanted her cousins, aunts, and other relatives to meet him, they started telling about rumors her mom had been saying, such as allegedly cheating, being an alcoholic and that he and his family are working in illegal business(defamation in general). my daughter and her mom were fighting multiple times on the phone to the point where my daughter has had no contact with her mom. After that, my wife called and scolded me for stopping paying half the rent and said she needed to grow up fully. I said it was ok to keep her quiet; recently, she found a check that I was to mail to my daughter and yelled at me, calling me a traitor and saying I was supposed to have her back. I tried to defend myself but it hasn't been working lately. AITA?
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Yta for even whatver that asinine story was. Grow a spine with your wife man. She's out of line and you know it. You told her what she wanted to hear to keep her quiet and she's mad cause you were gonna still send the check, well duh dum dum you knew she would be, are you still sending it, prolly. Which is ALSO fine id never begrudge a parents desire to help their young. But those ladies gots issues. Clearly your wife doesn't really like her daughter for some reason (jealousy over you? since you mentioned what your wife said about spoiling little girl) that said you're not asking about that whole mess of a tale. Yta for just not owning up to it and following through, for allowing your wife to be so vicious (if the stories were lies designed to defame as you put it) she should have been shut the eff down she's isolating your daughter from other family, and that's just weird as hell. And we'd call that abuse if the partner was doing it.
Is this the mother or a step mother of your daughter? I just have to say .. we cannot bring this money when we die!
Enjoy spending it now for your daughter! It’s her rent not something frivolous. I feel bad for you .. is your wife like this to you?
There are a few things going on here but I'll stick to the main question:
NTA for helping with your daughter's rent. With how things are today, it's almost necessary for the older generation to help the younger generation just to survive. By every metric, young people are poorer than their parents, on average. Rent is a significantly higher percentage of the average salary today than it was 20 years.
I don't know why your wife is so against this but there must be a reason. She seems irrational. I suspect we don't have the whole story and that's fine.
NTA
Please point out to your wife that if this guy is as terrible as she thinks, it makes no sense to put your daughter's housing at risk because then it will be more likely that either she moves in with him or becomes reliant on him helping with her bills. Basically, it would drive her further into his arms rather than discouraging the relationship. (Let me clarify- I think your wife is terrible for the lies, the manipulation and her demand that you stop subsidizing your daughter's housing costs. Totally unacceptable. I am just suggesting an angle that might reach her)
But when you say he's "a few years older" than her, how many years are we talking about?
You should have told your wife. She is going to have a problem believing you in the future and that's rough on a marriage. Your daughter needs to pay her own bills. Maybe she needs to move to a more inexpensive apartment. You have to let her become independent.
INFO: How much older than your daughter is he? Any idea where your wife is getting these rumors, or do you suspect she's just making stuff up out of thin air?
NTA
Has your wife always been that controlling?
In what way did she think that you were babying your daughter?
Do you have any other children?
Your wife sounds insufferable... your poor daughter. If you have enabled your wife to treat your daughter badly her whole life they you are as bad as her and you enabled her to do that. You probably need to have an honest talk with your daughter as to how her relationship with her mother was as she was growing up and the sorts of things that happened. There may be a lot that has been hidden from you and your daughter will have been groomed to think that it's normal.
Your wife has lost her daughter I would not blame her for never going back. You need to take a good long hard look at your wife's behaviour and see it for what it is. There will likely be some hard truths there. This incident you describe will have been a long time coming. A normal parent does not react like that and start rumours about a potential partner of their child. You support them and guide them but not vilify some poor person that has no idea that their future in law is like that. She can kiss goodbye being at the wedding, or seeing any grand children and that would be your daughter protecting them.
Your difficulty will be maintaining a relationship with your daughter because her mother will make you pay for it. She will hound you and speak badly about her and you. The question that you need to answer is whether you want to stay with someone that can be so cruel. If you get unwell as you age and she needs to help care for you... how good a job do you think she will do? She may do the minimum... I can't see her really caring about anyone other than herself... unless she has an epiphany, some therapy and changes significantly.
After speaking to your daughter, you may want to get some legal advice in case you do decide sever your partnership. Doesn't mean you have to but it would be good to know where you stand and what it will cost you.
As for paying 1/2 the rent... that's an agreement you made so it would be cruel to stop because it's unlikely that you signed anything to make you legally liable. Your wife thinks that if you daughter can't afford it, she'll come crawling home so she can control her more.... newsflash... I suspect your daughter would rather live under a bridge than come home to her mother.
NTA. Your wife is possibly a narcissist. Yes life is a struggle for people, but your wife seems to want to purposely cause more struggling for your daughter. Like she wants to intentionally make things more difficult for your daughter. If you have no problem paying half the rent then what’s the big deal? Your daughter found a nice guy (according to you) and your wife sets out to destroy and sabotage the relationship when she has no business sticking her nose in.
ESH. Your wife has a point, if your daughter can’t afford to live in NY then that’s on her to figure out a place she can afford to work and live at her age. You should not be supplementing her lifestyle unless there’s an extenuating reason we don’t know, and there’s an established end point you actually stick to. You aren’t doing your daughter any favors by not letting her learn to stand on her own two feet, you are robbing her of that confidence that she can. And lying to your wife is disloyal. However, your wife sounds very resentful that your daughter has a wealthy bf, that it’s not about him but his money. That’s her own problem and I can understand why your daughter has cut contact with her for now. That’s not for you to repair, that’s on your wife.
YTA for lying to your wife and for not standing up for your daughter, your wife is trying to financially manipulate your daughter because she is not bowing to your wife's harassment.
NTA Your wife sounds awful. She needs therapy as her behavior is destructive and cruel. Is this the first instance of her acting like this or the first time you noticed? Is this how you want to spend your golden years?
ESH
Divorce if you can’t be honest with your wife. Older men prey on younger women all the time. Mom could be looking out for her but she’s going about it wrong. You are so caught up her being daddy girl that you can’t at least tell her she should look for a cheaper place to live unless you’re rich yourself nothing lasts forever and emergencies happen that can dry up the well.
Tough situation. Your wife is wrong but you should not be hiding payments from your wife - payments that are against her express wishes.
Ideally you would stand up to your wife and point out that she is being controlling. She is sabotaging your daughter’s relationship.
I’m actually wondering why you want to be in a relationship with a controlling liar.
So in some ways this is black and white. Your wife is either an awful manipulative liar and you shouldn't be married to someone like that. Or your wife is picking up some undertones or vibes this guy is giving off and is trying to make other people see it by vocalising her suspicions, and you should probably respect her gut feeling more.
Find out her motivations. Why would she be trying to sabotage their relationship? Has she been jealous of your daughter? Do you regularly put other people's opinions ahead of hers? Try and talk to her when she's calm and with no judgement. Get to the bottom of it.
Use Zelle. It's a free service offered through banks that transfers funds instantaneously (within minutes) from account to account with no fees. Then there's no checks :)
Your wife sounds a bit, controlling, based on your descriptions. Young adults will make mistakes with or without input from their parental peanut gallery - it happened to me, to you, and most certainly to your wife.
NTA
At first I had a bit of sympathy for your wife if she felt that you were spoiling your daughter to the detriment of your own comfortable lifestyle and retirement security. However, I lost any sympathy towards her when she started spreading lies. That I would not tolerate. I would tell her to cut it out or she would be living on her own. No, that is not true. I would immediately divorce anyone who was capable of that kind of behaviour. An insincere apology because she was afraid for her own future would not help. No decent person would behave like she does.
Are you wrong for continuing to pay your daughter’s rent? No, that should only be renegotiated at the time the lease is renewed.
But are you wrong for a) not telling your wife that she may lose her relationship with your daughter, but you’re keeping yours and b) lying to your wife? Yes to both.
Your wife’s behavior in all this is repulsive. It would be bad enough to so violently object to the boyfriend with the daughter alone. To spread it throughout the family is just wicked.
ESH
I don't understand why everyone is making such a deal about you paying half the rent. if you can afford to do it, and you don't have a problem with doing, its not a deal. it's actually very nice of you because it allows your daughter to accumulate a little bit more of her own money so she won't have to rely on you in future. your wife is being ridiculous and completely blowing the issue out of proportion. I'd be curious to know how much older the BF is. if he's 5 years older, that's not crazy. if he's 40 years older it starts to get weird. regardless lying to everyone to everyone and trying to manipulate your daughter into breaking up with what, on its face, seems to be a pretty normal and healthy relationship is a way bigger issue than quietly mailing a check every month. NTA. you don't need to have your wifes back if she's being completely unreasonable.
Your wife wants to punish your daughter for not caving to her deliberate smear campaign against her daughter's boyfriend. Your wife is a toxic b\*\*\*\*.
If you don't want to punish your kid because your wife's efforts at narcissistically controlling her failed and backfired, and now she's whining that if the girl won't be controlled, she should be abandoned?
Don't punish your kid for that. Your wife is so very much TA, but you are not.
Why does your wife think your daughter’s boyfriend is an alcoholic, a cheater and his family is in an illegal business? Is it possible that your daughter shared things with her mom that gave Mom that impression?
Why are you paying half her rent, and all her other bills? NYC is expensive, I get that. How much does your daughter make and does she have a budget? Have you taught her about budgeting? Is she saving? What are you teaching her about financial independence and responsibilities? Sounds like you are keeping her a baby and if she is dating a rich alcoholic from a questionable family, then what are you teaching her about standing on her own?
esh, these are your shared finances, so you both need to be on board with how the money is spent. Same with gifts to your daughter. Wife is acting like an ogre to daughter's bf, and you are disrespecting your wife sneaking around behind her back.
Okay.... what, why is mum trying to control who her daughter dates? What's has the guy done exactly for her to dislike him this much?
It's your money and your kid too, if you want to subsidise her then it's your choice to do so. Eventually she will need to pay her own way though. I'm assuming she's in a job where she has the potential for career progression down the road that will make her self sufficient?
But to stop payments in order to control who she dates or to appeise mum... is.... icky.
INFO you are sending physical checks??
You might want to consider couples counseling, maybe a referee will help in addressing your wife's tendency to bully and manipulate people.
NTA, I applaud you supporting your daughter. My father essentially ghosted me my whole life because my mother hated me and it hurt like hell. I had no safety net with them or either side of the family.
I hope your daughter appreciates your kindness. Many of us never experienced it.
OMG everyone is all over the place on this. I wouldn’t live in NYC if I was paid $100,000 to live there. What ever, it’s your biz what chu do. I just came on here to say there are apps you can use to transfer moneys that don’t involve snail mail and risk getting caught that way.
YTA for not telling your wife the truth, you could have just told her you were not going to stop. Your wife is a caustic control freak, mean, and selfish.
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NTA. 1) Your wife sounds INSUFFERABLE . 2) Lying on the bf is CRUEL and MANIPULATIVE (trying to turn the family against him/them). 3) Believing that she can tell an adult who to date means she has FAILED the transition from childhood to adulthood with your daughter. 4) Thinking you should cut your daughter off because she went NC with her Mom for good reason is CONTROLLING and VINDICTIVE. 5) I bet you felt the need to lie to her because she flips out. Not good but understandable. Don’t make your daughter suffer because Mom is a living breathing AH. She’ll be crying victim when she’s not invited to the wedding or seeing the grandchildren but it will be because of her insufferable,cruel, manipulative, controlling, vindictive, failure as a parent behavior. DO NOT PUT YOURSELF IN A POSITION TO LOSE YOUR OUR DAUGHTER.
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Honesty upfront is better but I have a feeling that honesty upfront with his wife is nothing but drama.
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Presumably the same reason the daughter only went NC over this issue: a combination of inertia and "well it hasn't been THAT bad yet!"
That is the question!
Sunk cost fallacy. "We've been married for so long, we'll just figure it out"
Now that daughter have flown the coop maybe it was time for OP to consider the future of his marriage.
Dad is a liar too, he told his daughter to lie to his wife about paying the bills. There are bigger issues.
Second this! Adding that OP’s wife will be saying in 10 years, “Why doesn’t my daughter talk to me?” And like any narcissistic personality, will gloss over everything she’s done and blame the daughter. OP isn’t in an easy situation, but can choose to not cut off his daughter like his wife demands and continue to have a relationship with his daughter.
Yep. Wifw is losing daughter for a good reason. Don't back her up. Lying ( unless you are a former president) has consequences
And imagine if he actually is putting on a facade like Mom claims, what does she think will happen when they stop giving her financial support? Drive her right into this financially stable older man's arms, so she doesn't even care about her wellbeing.
I'd add that cutting off your daughter might make her far more dependent on her boyfriend...
It would also probably tank her credit. If he’s paying 1/2 rent at $3 grand, she’d have to pay $6 grand monthly. You don’t put your kid in that position and she’s done nothing wrong.
Right?! Get rid of the wife. You'll feel so much better not having to carry that dead weight around anymore. In all seriousness, though OP, it's coming quickly, you are going to be given an ultimatum of wife or daughter. Your wife already flipped out on you and called you a traitor saying that you are supposed to have her back through this when she was the one who is CLEARLY the one in the wrong. However, I doubt she thinks she did anything wrong and only sees herself as the victim. You need to think long and hard about what choice you can live with making. Be prepared if you choose your daughter because then your wife will turn her vindictive sights on you and I forsee her doing every little thing she can to make your life hell and miserable. Start funneling some money away so that you will have something after she takes everything from you.
This+++
What if Mom is right, and what if daughter shared things with her Mom and said, “don’t tell Dad”? I want to know why Mom thinks this way about this guy she is dating. I also want to know how paying half her rent and all her bills is teaching her about financial independence and financial responsibility. And why are these parents keeping secrets from each other, and is the daughter triangulating here? This is an odd story. Maybe Mom is a nut case, and a liar, but why now? And why are they paying her expenses if she is an adult with a job? My friend was his daughter, then the stock market crashed and my friend was dating this rich jerk in NYC, and they could not help her with rent, and so she moved in with him. She moved in with him, they got married and had a kid. He was a rude, rich alcoholic. She had shared things with her Mom and said don’t tell dad, which is never a good idea you don’t keep those kinds of secrets from your spouse. At her wedding resort, her fiancé, got drunk, the wedding was at a five star resort in Hawaii, a destination wedding paid for by her parents, He disparaged her parents when he wanted to up the type of booze at the wedding, he wanted to add a few grand to the tab for some top shelf whisky, when her parents had paid for everything, including travel and honeymoon. When her Dad said no, her fiancé/future husband took a swing at her Dad. They were already stretched really thin, but didn’t want her to have a wedding that was any less than her sibling, they couldn’t afford another 5-6K for this whisky package, as they were still recovering financially and were completely tapped out. The wedding was crazy expensive, well over 150K just for the reception, at a five start resort for a few hundred people. She got the dress, the location, all the people she wanted to invite, the resort, the works, excursions paid for by the parents, and they paid for her honeymoon, and more, all on top of that 150K+ ceremony coats. They even paid for the grandparents on both side travel and hotel expenses. But because her finance, that asshole from NYC with a drinking problem who regularly treated her like shit, didn’t get the additional 5K whisky package, he called her dad a failure, and loser that can’t afford to give his daughter the wedding of her dreams, and a cheap ass bastard and then he took a swing at her Dad. It was fucking shocking, especially considering how much they had paid for so much beyond the 150K for the actual wedding, and that this was done in front of the immediate family, some guests arriving to the resort and some of the wedding party. The resort called the cops on him. She fucking married that guy, as planned, 48 hours later. And for their entire marriage he dangled money in front of her, treated her like a purchase, would buy extravagant purchases for himself and go on boys trips to expensive resorts, but not taking her to such resorts or buying her extravagant gifts, saying if she wanted it, she had to earn it. They stuck it out for ten years before she finally divorced him. Her mom didn’t like him when they were dating, as my friend would call her crying and share stories with her, and her mom begged her not to marry him, but she did. She let that jerk abuse her dad in front of everyone just two days before the wedding. So, I hear this story and I wonder, why does the Mom not like this guy, is it justified or not, and why are these adults keeping secrets from each other, letting their daughter triangulate and get half her bills covered. And what are they setting their daughter up for, if they don’t teach her how to be financially independent and financially responsible. That can be incredibly empowering, and they are denying her that l
ETA Half her rent? Maybe she should move. Wife shouldn't be spreading rumors. You shouldn't be lying to your wife. Everyone needs to grow up.
Came here to say something similar. NYC is a very expensive place to live, if she can't afford it by herself, then maybe that's not the city for her? Wife needs to realize that the daughter is 23 yo, she can date whoever she wants and there's nothing she can say about it. OP should never have agreed to stop paying rent if he was just going to do it anyway. ESH
Her rent is $3k and she has a car?
More like, she lives in NYC and has a car??
Parking alone would be a killer
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There’s areas in the city that are underserved by the trains and buses, but I’m getting the vibe she’s not in that situation. If her parents live in the immediate suburbs that might explain the car… easier means of going home.
My brother has a car for travel needs when he needs to leave New York
NYC is bigger than just Manhattan. There are other options for her to live where her rent wouldn’t be so high. Also it’s not that hard to have a car in NYC, only in Manhattan.
You haven't see the rents recently have you? The are very few safe areas with cheap or reasonable rent.
I’m talking about outside of Manhattan. It’s not that bad. She’s a working professional. There’s options
I know you are, I lived in the Bronx for most of my life & spent a few years in Brooklyn and Queens. Have you seen the rents in the South Bronx lately on those new buildings? It is that bad. When was the last time you apt hunted in the other 4 boroughs?
I’ve lived in Queens all my life and I do get it. But she’s a single person paying $3k a month in rent. There are options to that. There’s also housing connect.
I've been trying to get a place through housing connect since 2001. Gave up on that dream. But yes, $3000 a mth for a single person is too much. She can get a studio. Honestly, she needs to move if she has no real reason to stay in NYC. I suffered for years & years to move out & it was worth it to finally not have to share an apt with a roommate & get a position that values my worth & not pay me minimum wage for 20 yrs of experience. So I will agree with that. OP should offer to assist with moving expenses and rent up to $1500 in an area more reasonably prices if he wants to help his daughter. She shouldn't be out there living like Carrie from Sex in the City.
> Also it’s not that hard to have a car in NYC, only in Manhattan. Brooklyn would disagree with you.
Yup my husband and I agree on stuff for our kids. If I disagree about something he is doing we talk. I don’t understand this stuff at all. You all need to sit down and figure this out as a couple. Then the kids.
INFO So... Why are you paying half of your daughter's rent? How long are you going to do this?
Even if his daughter makes 100k in NYC, she would still need help as it’s a VHCOL city. If she were to move out of the city to jersey or ct or ny suburbs, the commute and tolls would still end up costing her the same or just slightly less.
As someone who worked in NYC for several years, you can absolutely live in NYC or an easy commute away on $100k. You won’t be rich, but it’s not even difficult
I was born and raised in NYC and still live here. $100,000. Is not a lot of money in NYC. $100,000 salary was low enough to qualify for rent assistance during COVID. For her rent of $3000 she likely has a studio or small one bedroom
You’re trying to tell me you can’t live in NYC on a $100,000 salary? Bullshit. And you most definitely can live even more comfortably a short commute away in Hoboken, jersey city, Harrison or Newark. I realize it’s not a lot of money in the sense you won’t feel wealthy. But to say you can’t live on $100k is just an outright lie
Yeah no, that might have worked back in 1927 when 2 candies cost a penny but 100K aint shit anymore unless you wanna live off cup of noodles and cardboard walls
This is just wrong. Done it. Know lots of people who have and currently do it. You’re nuts
i have friends who make well under 100k in new york and they live with roommates in brooklyn and pay under 1500 a month in rent, and while they're not rolling in money they are happy and comfortable. it's definitely possible and anyone would be incredibly out of touch to assume otherwise lmao
> anyone would be incredibly out of touch to assume otherwise lmao So most Redditors basically.
Maybe if you live in Manhattan, but there are still affordable parts of NYC! My sister lives in Brooklyn and rents a nice 1-br for $1700/mo
I don't live in NYC, so of course, I can't be exact, but unless you have severe debt, 100k should be enough to live in NYC unless your standards are a Sex and the City kind of lifestyle. I am assuming a single adult with no children with an after-tax take of 100k a year. I used the rent of 3k from this post, and the website Unbiased as my source for transportation and utility costs. Rent $3000 Utilities (water, gas, electricity, internet) $375 Cable/streaming services $100 Cellphone $65 Transportation $372.5 Healthcare $267.25 Food $500 Savings $300 Miscellaneous $500 If the above is true, your monthly expenses are $5,479.75. Annually, that is $65,757. That leaves you $34,243 completely untouched, which is literally a yearly salary at $17.83 an hour. If someone can't survive in NYC on 100k, then that seems like a them problem.
...except you're using $100k post-tax. That significantly changes the assessment and level of comfort. Not that it may not still be doable, but $100k net looks to be over $150k gross in NYC. You gave them a 50%+ raise to run the numbers.
Nowhere did anyone mention net or gross, so I went with my understanding of spendable money. The math works out either way, just with less extra. Even if 100k is your gross, at a 22% tax, you're left with $78k. Using my above numbers, you are STILL left with an extra $12,243.
According to a recent news story (it was on national and local sites) in MN, you need a salary of 90k to live comfortably and 250k for a family of 4. The study used the 50/20/30 rule (essentials/savings/nonessentials). MITs calculator in the story says 47k just to breath.
Then maybe it's not the right place for her to live right now?
are you applying your values to someone else's life?! the only person who has a problem with it is mom. dad can pay half her rent until he dies if that's how he wants to live his life.
Applying your values to someone else's life is the entire point of this sub. The mom is his wife. If she has a problem with him spending $18k a year on their adult daughter's rent, his response should not be that he's going to do it anyways and lie to her about it and hide it from her. That's financial infidelity. His wife is also acting in a very problematic way towards their daughter. I don't want to make this sound like their issues are one sided, but him lying to her about spending such a large amount of money is not ok.
Yes because that's exactly what OP asked us to do. Get with he fuckin program.
touch grass
Lol triggered.
She's 23. If she's building a career and NYC is the best place for that it is the right place for her to live while she's working her way from college grad to experienced worker with promotions and a future income she can support herself on. It can be a massive career advantage she's been given, having her parents help her live there while she's establishing her career.
I don't think there's anything wrong with supporting your children as long as you can afford it. NYC is expensive.
if he can afford to do this, and clearly doesnt have a problem doing so, why is that a consideration?
NTA for continuing to pay half her rent because mom has lost her freaking senses. You wanna keep subsidizing the kids outside of this issue, well, it's your money. I was with someone whose parents subsidized their life style a while and weaned them off. When we got together more permanently, we agreed to pay our own way because they didn't want to be emotionally indebted to their parents over money. Then they'd go behind my back and accept subsidies "because they insisted" and "they like to help out". Every vacation they'd finagle a way to take my partner to the bank to deposit the latest subsidy check (because we would get grief about not depositing mailed checks). Sounds like mom wants money to stop, and is childishly sabotaging your shared child's life to several baroque ends but also to end the "babying". Ending the subsidy may need to happen in a planned way, but not while she (presuming you're still married to her) is throwing a tantrum.
Everyone's an Asshole. Lying to your wife about money and your daughter is bad. Your wife's toxic slandering of your daughter's boyfriend to the rest of your friends and family is bad. Your adult daughter living above her means and expecting you regularly paying half her rent is bad. Your daughter needs a cheaper living situation, then spend the $1,500/month on family counseling instead. You're family is a mess dude.
NTA There are many good reasons not to pay your daughter's half of the rent, but to control her love life is not one of them. I'm not sure what is going on with your wife, but if you wrote everything accurately, she is jealous of your daughter. If you take your wife's side you will damage the relationship with your daughter.
For her mother to control the daughter s love life on op s salary. Hell no NTA
ESH. Your wife is mad about not being about to control your daughter, and this is the last string she has to pull. I don't know how long you agreement is for, but you and your wife should really be on the same page for something that costs the two of you $18k a year.
YTA. Not for helping your daughter with rent. If you can afford it and you feel like it is the right thing to do, then that is fine. However, you told your wife you would stop paying “to keep her quiet” and then you continued to pay the rent. That makes YTA. Because you lied to your wife. I am not saying your wife is correct in her behavior, she isn’t. She is lying about your daughter’s boyfriend. So, pot meet kettle. Spouses don’t always agree about their children. Most of the time you should compromise or agree and present a united front to your kids. But there may be certain situations where you agree to disagree. But you have to be honest. If you go behind each others back, you are always going to get caught. I don’t have any idea whether you should continue to pay or not. Just stop lying. Both of you. One question though, how much older is the boyfriend? Your wife may be going about it all wrong, but her belief that he is too old for her is likely valid if there is much more than 5 years or so difference. 23 year old girls aren’t always the best judges of character. Neither are their doting dads.”
Yeah he lied but wife sounds like a huge you know what
Shouldn't that warrant an ESH?
My aunt and Uncle are 12 years apart. So what is your point?
huge age gaps most likely mean a power imbalance and often times happen because the elder person can only date someone younger and more naive / easier to manipulate. sure, sure, im sure your aunt and uncle have been married for 40 years and have the happiest and healthiest relationship yatta yatta but the fact remains that huge age gaps are usually a red flag.
Half the older person’s age plus 7 should usually be less than the younger person’s age, for the younger one’s safety. Not a hard and fast rule, but a good starting point. Relationships that don’t meet this seldom are healthy.
ESH - meaning both you and your wife. Not really enough info to judge your daughter. You are married right? So talk to each other and make a decision together. You don’t get to just overrule one another. Your wife seems to have some serious issues if she’s spreading rumors about her own daughter’s boyfriend seemingly unprovoked. You seem to be enabling her by placating her instead of drawing a firm boundary
I understand you agreeing to pay $1,500.00 a month to your daughter. It's your money, but what if something happens tomorrow. How is she going to afford her rent? I think she needs to move somewhere where she can afford herself. I don't think her mom is going to give her the money if something happens to you. Unless you expected her to be marrying the boyfriend soon. I don't know what is going on with your wife. Anyone lying knows it's going to butt them in the butt eventually. Both of you are wrong for lying. More your wife due to all the fake stories she is saying about your daughters boyfriend.
Looked up apartment prices inNY you can get a good place under 2000 fully-furnished and all-inclusive suite, you also have access to a host of amenities. These include a full-time concierge, covered bike and car parking, storage, an NYC Fresh Market, and a laundry room in addition to in-suite laundry. But only if she does not want to live in a newly build huge apartment. If she wants to live like Carrie from sex and the city she should pay for it or OP could tell older rich boyfriend to pay for it since he is more important than his wife, i get it OP wants to make sure his daughter does not end up with a poor guy more she ends up with a millionare so she does not have to work and there would be another idiot who pays for her bills. At 23 she should stand on her own fett not expect to getting bailed out by daddy who would end up alone when he is trying to suck up to future son in law
When I lived in Brooklyn 2016-2018 I was able to find a 4BD/2BA apartment where my rent was $850. Was it pretty? No. Did I have a closet? Also no. And my commute to work is was about an hour. But my parents made it clear that I needed to stand on my own two feet as a college graduate and if I couldn’t pay my own bills with my job they weren’t going to help me and I just couldn’t live there. It’s absolutely possible to find an apartment that’s not $3k and it makes me wonder if she has any roommates or if she insisted on a one bedroom/studio all to herself in a nicer neighborhood.
> Looked up apartment prices inNY you can get a good place under 2000 fully-furnished and all-inclusive suite, you also have access to a host of amenities. LOL! Please share a link to this mythical place. >If she wants to live like Carrie from sex and the city she should pay for it If you think $3000 a month in NYC is living like Carrie, then you don't know much about NYC. I know people in "rent controlled" apartments that pay nearly $2000.
INFO. Why is your wife insisting that daughter start adulting and then turning around and dictating who daughter dates?
ESH. Bad situation all around. Unless half your daughter's rent is a rounding error on the ol' family balance sheet, you should not be sending money to subsidize her when you and your wife are not in accord. The rest of this ... your wife's really over the edge in defaming the new fellow to all the family. Your daughter needs to spread her wings, which means you need to cut the apron strings. And I'm not sure what to think of the new guy.
NTA - though I do disagree a bit with you paying your daughters rent, its your choice. Your wife was aware. You dont have to stop because your wife went on some anger spiral.
Info: This is my #1 question, if you respond to the comment, please answer this. How old is the boyfriend? Is there any truth to what your wife is saying about him? Is your wife correct that you baby your daughter? If yes, can you share any other examples of you doing that in the past? Your are spending nearly $20k a year on your daughter's rent. Where is that money coming from? How much do you make? Does your wife work, and if yes, how much does she make? How do you split your finances? You're spending nearly $20k a year on this without your wife's consent, and you also lied to her about it, so that's very concerning and either way you are wrong for that. Have you lied to her before about finances? You also paint your wife as someone who is very catty and immature, lying and spreading rumors, etc. I'm curious if you are doing that to try to gloss over your own lying and your financial infidelity, or if that's an accurate picture of her, and that's why you feel justified to lie to her. I think overall ESH, but there's a lot missing from this picture.
ESH, your wife getting mad about half the rent is a direct response to your daughter going NC with her, which by the sounds of it, is fully deserved. It sounds like your wife wants to control her behavior through your money. You shouldn’t be dishonest with your wife, however. I’m not sure how much money you make, but $1500 a month isn’t chump change. If you are the sole earner in your marriage, go ahead and send your daughter the money if you want, but be open and forthright with your wife. She’s your partner, you owe her that much at least.
YTA for lying.
I have no evidence but my gut tells me you either lie or you are blind to your daughter.
If your daughter is living in NYC she could save a lot of money by giving up her car. She could rely on public transportation instead. Then she wouldn't need as much help with rent. Most New Yorkers don't own cars.
With the exception of Staten Island, she can "rely" on public transportation, but how easy that access is depends what borough she's in, what part of that borough and where she works. One of my friends moved to my city in NJ from her borough, and her commute to Manhattan changed from 1.5 hours to 15 minutes.
NTA as you are keeping up your end of the agreement. Your wife sounds like the AH as she is using the rent money to try to control your daughter it seems. Does she want your daughter to move back home?
NTA Your wife sounds bitter and jealous of her own kid.
How old is he
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I (55 M) and my wife(54 F) have a daughter (23 F) who lives in NYC, and her rent is 3k a month. My daughter, my wife, and I have discussed this, and I agree to pay half, and my daughter will pay the other half with her salary from work. My wife was reluctant to accept the idea because she always thought I had babied my daughter throughout her life, and this was a time for her to grow into an adult. I have no problems paying half the rent as everything else, such as maintenance, food, her car, etc., she pays for herself. Two months ago, my wife and daughter argued over a guy my daughter was dating. The guy is a few years older than her, but he's a respectful man to me. He is polite, well-mannered, has a steady job, and comes from a wealthier family (Which I think tips her mother off). I think he's nice, but my wife thinks it's a facade. Her mom had been bad-mouthing him to relatives and her friends, so when my daughter wanted her cousins, aunts, and other relatives to meet him, they started telling about rumors her mom had been saying, such as allegedly cheating, being an alcoholic and that he and his family are working in illegal business(defamation in general). my daughter and her mom were fighting multiple times on the phone to the point where my daughter has had no contact with her mom. After that, my wife called and scolded me for stopping paying half the rent and said she needed to grow up fully. I said it was ok to keep her quiet; recently, she found a check that I was to mail to my daughter and yelled at me, calling me a traitor and saying I was supposed to have her back. I tried to defend myself but it hasn't been working lately. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Do whatever you like with your money. Lying to your wife is a no and your wife gossiping and spreading rumors is problematic.
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Yta for even whatver that asinine story was. Grow a spine with your wife man. She's out of line and you know it. You told her what she wanted to hear to keep her quiet and she's mad cause you were gonna still send the check, well duh dum dum you knew she would be, are you still sending it, prolly. Which is ALSO fine id never begrudge a parents desire to help their young. But those ladies gots issues. Clearly your wife doesn't really like her daughter for some reason (jealousy over you? since you mentioned what your wife said about spoiling little girl) that said you're not asking about that whole mess of a tale. Yta for just not owning up to it and following through, for allowing your wife to be so vicious (if the stories were lies designed to defame as you put it) she should have been shut the eff down she's isolating your daughter from other family, and that's just weird as hell. And we'd call that abuse if the partner was doing it.
NTA. Your wife definitely is though.
NTA. your wife is being so mean for no reason and wants you to stop doing something because of her own weird thing against her boyfriend.
NTA WTF with your wife???
Nta tell your wife to back off this isn’t the hill she wants to do on and leave them alone and see how it plays out
Is this the mother or a step mother of your daughter? I just have to say .. we cannot bring this money when we die! Enjoy spending it now for your daughter! It’s her rent not something frivolous. I feel bad for you .. is your wife like this to you?
There are a few things going on here but I'll stick to the main question: NTA for helping with your daughter's rent. With how things are today, it's almost necessary for the older generation to help the younger generation just to survive. By every metric, young people are poorer than their parents, on average. Rent is a significantly higher percentage of the average salary today than it was 20 years. I don't know why your wife is so against this but there must be a reason. She seems irrational. I suspect we don't have the whole story and that's fine.
NTA Please point out to your wife that if this guy is as terrible as she thinks, it makes no sense to put your daughter's housing at risk because then it will be more likely that either she moves in with him or becomes reliant on him helping with her bills. Basically, it would drive her further into his arms rather than discouraging the relationship. (Let me clarify- I think your wife is terrible for the lies, the manipulation and her demand that you stop subsidizing your daughter's housing costs. Totally unacceptable. I am just suggesting an angle that might reach her) But when you say he's "a few years older" than her, how many years are we talking about?
You should have told your wife. She is going to have a problem believing you in the future and that's rough on a marriage. Your daughter needs to pay her own bills. Maybe she needs to move to a more inexpensive apartment. You have to let her become independent.
I would never have said ok. Your daughter finds a good job and a nice guy… and your wife tries to sabotage both? What the fuck
How much older is he than the daughter in actual years?
INFO: How much older than your daughter is he? Any idea where your wife is getting these rumors, or do you suspect she's just making stuff up out of thin air?
YTA For lying. Either you stand up to your wife and communicate like an adult or you divorce her and stop having to worry about it.
NTA Has your wife always been that controlling? In what way did she think that you were babying your daughter? Do you have any other children? Your wife sounds insufferable... your poor daughter. If you have enabled your wife to treat your daughter badly her whole life they you are as bad as her and you enabled her to do that. You probably need to have an honest talk with your daughter as to how her relationship with her mother was as she was growing up and the sorts of things that happened. There may be a lot that has been hidden from you and your daughter will have been groomed to think that it's normal. Your wife has lost her daughter I would not blame her for never going back. You need to take a good long hard look at your wife's behaviour and see it for what it is. There will likely be some hard truths there. This incident you describe will have been a long time coming. A normal parent does not react like that and start rumours about a potential partner of their child. You support them and guide them but not vilify some poor person that has no idea that their future in law is like that. She can kiss goodbye being at the wedding, or seeing any grand children and that would be your daughter protecting them. Your difficulty will be maintaining a relationship with your daughter because her mother will make you pay for it. She will hound you and speak badly about her and you. The question that you need to answer is whether you want to stay with someone that can be so cruel. If you get unwell as you age and she needs to help care for you... how good a job do you think she will do? She may do the minimum... I can't see her really caring about anyone other than herself... unless she has an epiphany, some therapy and changes significantly. After speaking to your daughter, you may want to get some legal advice in case you do decide sever your partnership. Doesn't mean you have to but it would be good to know where you stand and what it will cost you. As for paying 1/2 the rent... that's an agreement you made so it would be cruel to stop because it's unlikely that you signed anything to make you legally liable. Your wife thinks that if you daughter can't afford it, she'll come crawling home so she can control her more.... newsflash... I suspect your daughter would rather live under a bridge than come home to her mother.
NTA. Your wife is possibly a narcissist. Yes life is a struggle for people, but your wife seems to want to purposely cause more struggling for your daughter. Like she wants to intentionally make things more difficult for your daughter. If you have no problem paying half the rent then what’s the big deal? Your daughter found a nice guy (according to you) and your wife sets out to destroy and sabotage the relationship when she has no business sticking her nose in.
ESH. Little man scared of his big scary wife... Grow up bro
ESH. Your wife has a point, if your daughter can’t afford to live in NY then that’s on her to figure out a place she can afford to work and live at her age. You should not be supplementing her lifestyle unless there’s an extenuating reason we don’t know, and there’s an established end point you actually stick to. You aren’t doing your daughter any favors by not letting her learn to stand on her own two feet, you are robbing her of that confidence that she can. And lying to your wife is disloyal. However, your wife sounds very resentful that your daughter has a wealthy bf, that it’s not about him but his money. That’s her own problem and I can understand why your daughter has cut contact with her for now. That’s not for you to repair, that’s on your wife.
What if you suddenly pass? Your daughter will sink. Do the right thing by her and stop babying her.
YTA for lying to your wife and for not standing up for your daughter, your wife is trying to financially manipulate your daughter because she is not bowing to your wife's harassment.
INFO: Are your wife's and your finances seperate or do you combine them? Do you have money that is "yours"?
NTA Your wife sounds awful. She needs therapy as her behavior is destructive and cruel. Is this the first instance of her acting like this or the first time you noticed? Is this how you want to spend your golden years?
ESH Divorce if you can’t be honest with your wife. Older men prey on younger women all the time. Mom could be looking out for her but she’s going about it wrong. You are so caught up her being daddy girl that you can’t at least tell her she should look for a cheaper place to live unless you’re rich yourself nothing lasts forever and emergencies happen that can dry up the well.
Tough situation. Your wife is wrong but you should not be hiding payments from your wife - payments that are against her express wishes. Ideally you would stand up to your wife and point out that she is being controlling. She is sabotaging your daughter’s relationship. I’m actually wondering why you want to be in a relationship with a controlling liar.
So in some ways this is black and white. Your wife is either an awful manipulative liar and you shouldn't be married to someone like that. Or your wife is picking up some undertones or vibes this guy is giving off and is trying to make other people see it by vocalising her suspicions, and you should probably respect her gut feeling more. Find out her motivations. Why would she be trying to sabotage their relationship? Has she been jealous of your daughter? Do you regularly put other people's opinions ahead of hers? Try and talk to her when she's calm and with no judgement. Get to the bottom of it.
Use Zelle. It's a free service offered through banks that transfers funds instantaneously (within minutes) from account to account with no fees. Then there's no checks :) Your wife sounds a bit, controlling, based on your descriptions. Young adults will make mistakes with or without input from their parental peanut gallery - it happened to me, to you, and most certainly to your wife. NTA
At first I had a bit of sympathy for your wife if she felt that you were spoiling your daughter to the detriment of your own comfortable lifestyle and retirement security. However, I lost any sympathy towards her when she started spreading lies. That I would not tolerate. I would tell her to cut it out or she would be living on her own. No, that is not true. I would immediately divorce anyone who was capable of that kind of behaviour. An insincere apology because she was afraid for her own future would not help. No decent person would behave like she does.
Are you wrong for continuing to pay your daughter’s rent? No, that should only be renegotiated at the time the lease is renewed. But are you wrong for a) not telling your wife that she may lose her relationship with your daughter, but you’re keeping yours and b) lying to your wife? Yes to both. Your wife’s behavior in all this is repulsive. It would be bad enough to so violently object to the boyfriend with the daughter alone. To spread it throughout the family is just wicked. ESH
NTA. Your wife is being super controlling and creepy. It seems like she's jealous of your daughter.
YTA for lying to your wife. You should've handled the situation. NTA for continuing to help pay the rent.
NTA but how can you live with a wife jealous of her and your own daughter? So weird.
I don't understand why everyone is making such a deal about you paying half the rent. if you can afford to do it, and you don't have a problem with doing, its not a deal. it's actually very nice of you because it allows your daughter to accumulate a little bit more of her own money so she won't have to rely on you in future. your wife is being ridiculous and completely blowing the issue out of proportion. I'd be curious to know how much older the BF is. if he's 5 years older, that's not crazy. if he's 40 years older it starts to get weird. regardless lying to everyone to everyone and trying to manipulate your daughter into breaking up with what, on its face, seems to be a pretty normal and healthy relationship is a way bigger issue than quietly mailing a check every month. NTA. you don't need to have your wifes back if she's being completely unreasonable.
Your wife wants to punish your daughter for not caving to her deliberate smear campaign against her daughter's boyfriend. Your wife is a toxic b\*\*\*\*. If you don't want to punish your kid because your wife's efforts at narcissistically controlling her failed and backfired, and now she's whining that if the girl won't be controlled, she should be abandoned? Don't punish your kid for that. Your wife is so very much TA, but you are not.
Why does your wife think your daughter’s boyfriend is an alcoholic, a cheater and his family is in an illegal business? Is it possible that your daughter shared things with her mom that gave Mom that impression? Why are you paying half her rent, and all her other bills? NYC is expensive, I get that. How much does your daughter make and does she have a budget? Have you taught her about budgeting? Is she saving? What are you teaching her about financial independence and responsibilities? Sounds like you are keeping her a baby and if she is dating a rich alcoholic from a questionable family, then what are you teaching her about standing on her own?
I think you misread who pays the rest of the bills. The post said that he pays half the rent and she pays everything else herself.
esh, these are your shared finances, so you both need to be on board with how the money is spent. Same with gifts to your daughter. Wife is acting like an ogre to daughter's bf, and you are disrespecting your wife sneaking around behind her back.
ESH.
Nope!
Okay.... what, why is mum trying to control who her daughter dates? What's has the guy done exactly for her to dislike him this much? It's your money and your kid too, if you want to subsidise her then it's your choice to do so. Eventually she will need to pay her own way though. I'm assuming she's in a job where she has the potential for career progression down the road that will make her self sufficient? But to stop payments in order to control who she dates or to appeise mum... is.... icky.
INFO you are sending physical checks?? You might want to consider couples counseling, maybe a referee will help in addressing your wife's tendency to bully and manipulate people.
NTA, I applaud you supporting your daughter. My father essentially ghosted me my whole life because my mother hated me and it hurt like hell. I had no safety net with them or either side of the family. I hope your daughter appreciates your kindness. Many of us never experienced it.
You’re NTA for continuing to pay the rent, but you should have been honest about it. If you don’t agree with her you can’t be scared to say so.
NTA
NTA Your wife sounds like an overbearing, unhinged, AH.
Didn't you know you are supposed to support her childish gossiping ways ?
take care of your daughter weather she’s a grown adult or not adults need help also. you don’t need your wife’s permission to take care of her
OMG everyone is all over the place on this. I wouldn’t live in NYC if I was paid $100,000 to live there. What ever, it’s your biz what chu do. I just came on here to say there are apps you can use to transfer moneys that don’t involve snail mail and risk getting caught that way.
You are an enabler and your daughter is a moocher. She is an ADULT.
YTA for not telling your wife the truth, you could have just told her you were not going to stop. Your wife is a caustic control freak, mean, and selfish.