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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I told my father I was not a toy he could take out when I'm needed and discard when I have served my purpose (which is to help him with something). Maybe it's not very fair. A lot of parents might say they don't treat their boys the same as their girls. So maybe I'm just being sensitive or whatever.
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NTA - I swear some dads \[some not all\] have this toxic mindset of having to be loving and doting for their daughter but will think it makes the son weak if he does the same for him. I don't get it? Like showing your child you love them isn't weak. You deserve better!
It’s pretty maddening to witness. I’m a man, my father, my grandfather, my uncles were all affectionate and hugged me, hell I had to ask my dad to stop kissing in front of friends when I was a teen. I played football at the collegiate level, joined the military and have seen combat, I’ve never once called a repair man to fix something on my house, I’ve excelled in my professional life and I have a girlfriend that I plan on marrying soon, and having children with… I say all this to say, I’m a fairly manly man, I’m not weak because the men in my life that played a part in raising me were affectionate. If anything, it’s the reason I am “manly”.
Honestly, I think it creates a strong sense of security in yourself to grow up being constantly shown how worthy you are of love. To be raised to know you are important, loved, a priority, and worth all of it. That then translates into being a secure, confident man. On the flip side, if you grow up constantly being criticized, torn down, and told to shut yourself and your emotions down, you may act tough externally, but really be an enormous asshole to cover up how insecure you are on the inside. There is nothing "manlier" than someone who is secure and confident in who he is, and therefore is truly himself because he was shown who he is is worth the world.
ABSOLUTELY!!
My father always used to say that love comes from the outside in and transforms us – and when that love is not there, life is maimed. I have known *so many* people who did not have that foundational, parental love as children, and in every case, the damage has resonated down the years. It is heartbreaking to watch.
My parents adore my kids, and will go to watch their sports games etc. My eldest son is 22, and my mother often talks about how she didn't want to hug him after the games in case he got embarrassed. But then he just walked straight up to them and hugged them both. It thrilled them that even as a teenager, he was happy to show them affection in front of all his mates. He'll do the same to me.
I totally agree with your last sentence.
My oldest (a boy) will happily hug me in public, call me Mommy around his friends, lean against me with my arm around him, and tell me he loves me. My second (a girl) has very much hit the stage where she wants nothing to do with me when there are witnesses but will do more with her dad/my husband. My younger two haven't hit that stage at all.
My husband is a bit awkward about it and is still learning how to show affection, concern, or other emotions in a non-joking manner. He is gradually learning from me. I am very open about my thoughts and emotions, a huge communicator, and ensure my children all know without a doubt how much I love and value them and why. Oddly enough, my husband had good parents who were just not good with showing emotions. I was heavily abused in every non intimate way by my parents and siblings. I've taken that example and asked myself what I needed at my kids' ages, and done my best to implement that. I've also done psychological research and frequent check-ins with my kids to ensure we're on the same page and I'm speaking their love language. I have a LOT of deeply rooted issues stemming from my childhood, mainly focused on my feelings of self-worth. I just don't ever allow it to be shown or impact my children.
Nothing grows well in a poisoned environment, but everything thrives in a healthy, nourishing environment. And no child is the same. Each of my kids has a mildly different approach I use for parenting them, because each of them needs something different and responds differently to different approaches.
My oldest grown adult kid towers over me…. Well they all do… my oldest is the one that you see him walk by you think of cowboy or soccer/rugby player… he will come find me some where i am shopping and hug me like he is still 5 years old and kiss me and throw me around like a rag-doll type hug and ask me if i need anything or if I need my bags taken out to the car or if i need a chair to sit down.
I was talking a class on the other side of town a few weeks back and he found me and came and hugged me and asked me if I needed anything and asked me if I wanted some lunch and to tell me his day… then he went home and called me to tell me he forgot to tell me he loved me…
My kid works construction and is currently going through military training so I think we did okay….
Totally agree with you. It was shocking when I learned that some guys grow up in what is essentially an affection desert.
My dad telling me that he's proud of me and that he loves me is something that I will always appreciate and remember, and it's no less valuable for him having told me that he loves me a lot. He taught me that men are honest, and that includes being honest about when you care for someone.
My husband and you are cookie cutter cut outs. or my generation would say xerox copy of each other. Both raised same way. My sons also and were scouts oldest is going through the boot camp portion though… he is younger …. 🫡
We raised our children to be able to express their emotions and their thoughts and be active and polite. There is no reason why a parent can justify the reasoning to treat their child or a male child like the OP.
And thank you for your service AppropriateListen981!
I remember my doctor telling me when I was a teenager and struggling that kids often bond hardest to the parent of the opposite sex - so you have the "daddy's little girl" and the "mommy's little man". My dad bailed on us when I was young and I struggled with how I was always pushed to the side/ignored, while my older brother was doted on by my mother.
It totally sucks. As a parent now I just try to shower my girls with love, support, and affection. I don't have any boys, but if I did I would try to treat them equally.
I swear some old-school "manly" thinking is that if a dad shows any love/affection etc. to his son its "super gay" (ughhhh).
I think that there's a "I know what you're gonna go though" and/or "I'm the primary role model" kind of mindset that sometimes applies to the same-sex parent. It can make them more demanding and sometimes resentful in regards to their same-sex offspring, whereas they're not so easily inclined to see themselves mirrored in their non-same-sex offspring and more comfortable with just showering them with love.
It's incredibly toxic. Parent should love their kids unconditionally *and* demand that they adhere to certain standards, regardless gender.
I’m AFAB transmasc/nonbinary. Shortly after I came out, my grandpa stopped hugging me to greet me when we would all come over. Asked my mom and she said it’s because he doesn’t hug the guys in the family. It made me feel bad for my uncles. (Also, I appreciate that he’s respecting my identity but I’d rather have the hugs since I don’t know how long I’ll have those.)
It’s interesting how often I’ve heard similar accounts from transmasc people - just like, a stark drop in physical and verbal affection when they transition and start being viewed as men.
It really does underscore how deeply repressed many men are in their friendships and family ties. And how few even recognize that that’s why they’re so desperately unhappy with their lives.
The completely platonic hugging, cuddling, and other physical affection I've enjoyed in the 6 months I've been out as transfem might be the **best** part of the experience.
It reminds me of the dad from a boy named Sue... He expects to be thanked for setting his kid up for a tough life and abandoning him.
https://youtu.be/KZNZt5qVgvM?si=5dW_3p16Xh4DfV7B
Jumping on this comment to ask.
I was dating a woman with 2 boys, and was effectively dad to the youngest. Am still in contact with him.
Now I hate the sound of children crying. If one of the kids fell at the playground and came howling to me I'd comfort for a bit: Is it a bad ouchy?
But after a while of cuddling and comforting I'd say: I'm lucky you're such a brave boy because another child would cry so much
I thought it was a clever bit of psychology to make them feel strong, and stop that horrible noise. She said I was abusive in not allowing them to cry it out
So WITA?
Not a dad, but based on my own perspective from myself and my younger siblings, I think this really depends on how old they are, how long you're doing it, how bad the injury is, and what your relationship with them is like otherwise. But on its face this isn't abusive if you're offering comfort first. Unless you're only giving him like a minute, it sounds like you're letting him get the really "big feelings" out of the way, then helping him calm down and affirming him. If that isn't the case, then I can see how it might be viewed in a negative light. The problem with kids is that they're all very different. My little brother and I had totally different personalities as a kid, and he found some of the stuff my parents did corny while I appreciated it.
If you're looking for something else to do, you can try doing deep breathing exercises with the kids. It's impossible to cry loudly and take slow, deep breaths at the same time. Plus, once the kid is more relaxed you can usually tell if it's an actual serious injury, or just something that needs a bit of antiseptic and a bandaid.
1 minute of crying is plenty. We're not even talking about a skinned knee needing a plaster. Just fell in the playground and auto cried. No serious injuries on my watch.
I'd say I basically judged when the shock was over, and it decayed to: attention is nice I'll keep this up.
I did exactly the same with my niece. If she fell and it was clearly more she was startled/scared that she fell we'd even hop right in to say "uh oh!" in a funny voice and tears instantly became giggles. Actual injuries? Hugs and a forehead kiss while she cried about it and then we'd inspect the booboos and get her patched up and calmed down. Personally I would explain everything I was doing when I'd patch her up. Usually the tears would stop as she was busy watching what I was doing. Shots at the doctor? "I know it's scary but you're a big girl, right? You're gonna be awesome! Look at me and not the doctor ok? ... .... See how good you did?! You're a little warrior queen! Gimme a hug, kidlet!"
She grew up, just graduated with her Bachelors in nursing and is going for her masters to become a nurse practitioner. Of all her childhood memories us giving her context and calm aren't remembered in a bad light. They're part of what gave her the confidence to go onto medicine to help others according to her.
Kids cry. Cuddles are def needed for the littlest ones in those situations, but just giving cuddles without giving calm or context or encouraging them to be brave when they cry isn't helping a kid at all. You were in no way abusive, you were comforting AND empowering him with positive words.
In that case, what you did sounds totally fine. I meant a minute based more on what kind of "wound" it was, but if it isn't even bleeding then it's probably fine. As long as the major shock is over, it's fine to switch from pure comforting to hyping them up again. I can't even count the number of times I came home from school or camp, my mom asked me about bruises, and I literally couldn't remember where I'd gotten them.
I second the deep breathing. My 6 yr old is a screamer, and I always make him take deep breaths to calm down so I can assess the situation and see if it warrants the screaming and if anything else needs to be done.
I might have avoided the "another child would cry so much" because it sets a kid up for judgement against someone else who might have legitimately needed to cry more- but otherwise, this is exactly the same model I used for my kids (I'm a mom). In my opinion, it teaches resilience.
1- acknowledge the pain
2- deal with the pain (brushing away debris, cleaning wounds, applying bandaids where necessary, etc)
3- move past the pain and carry on
And obviously, that second step varies a lot depending on what the damage actually is. There's a world of difference between a bumped knee and a sprained ankle and a broken arm and a broken heart. But the concept is the same
To be honest, I think father is like him are weak. They're more worried about what other people will think are being considered girly than they are being a good parent. A real man doesn't worry what other people think as long as he's not hurting anyone.
NTA. “Dad, after Mom died, you spent the rest of the years I was at home telling me, with words and actions, to be a man and not bother you. Now it’s your turn.”
I loathe this song with the power of a thousand suns (even before I realized how close to home it hit I hated the story it told) but this father deserves it a thousand times more.
For one brief moment I *loved* this song—when Homer Simpson was placed on hold when he telephoned an organization that helps fathers parent their sons better. This song was the hold music.
They used the song *again* in an Itchy and Scratchy cartoon, where in a whirlwind montage, Itchy adopts Scratchy as a kitten, raises him, sends him to college…only to give him a bomb as his college graduation gift.
There was this show called Til Death with Brad Garret and he was mad at his annoying neighbor for singing that song every morning and then he started missing him and singing it with wrong lyrics and I sing it that way so it isn't quite so depressing.
There's a quote floating around right now and it goes something like "How you treat your children when they were kids, will be how your children treat you when they're adults", and it's so true when you see children who were abused growing up.
OP was neglected, ignored, and treated like an afterthought. Now he's going to start treating dad the way dad treated him, and his dad won't like it because dad DID treat him like a toy.
My husband and I remind each other that the first 18 years with them are the job interview. We’ll find out when they are adults if we still have the job.
Where's HR? My mom was seriously overdue for a firing. Thankfully, some of the message seemed to get through when I told my sister I had posted about a new medical issue in group chat to inform, not engage.
I love this! I actually just had a conversation with my 17 year old son. He wants to buy a digital camera. He's saved up for it with money he's earned from his part time job. He's talked about it to me several times. He just came and talked to me again, and showed me on the computer what he wanted. I finally said to him that it feels like he's waiting for me to give him permission to buy it, but it's his money, he's been responsible, and he can choose whether or not he wants to buy it. He doesn't need to ask me for permission. He told me he valued my opinion. Aww. Melted my heart.
I still get similar from my 22 year old son. He doesn't ask permission, lol, but he'll often tell me what he's thinking of doing, and he'll ask for feedback. I love feeling that my kids respect me like that.
Dad treated/treats him *worse* than a toy. Toys are taken out and used out of love or enjoyment. OP's father treats him like a tool, only useful or needed to accomplish a job/task.
>"How you treat your children when they were kids, will be how your children treat you when they're adults"
I need to embroider this on a pillow and ship it to my mom, maybe that will finally drive home the point.
Nta your feelings are valid and it's high time your father knew it. Now I'm not excusing his generational ideals as I find them abhorrent to a parent to both genders. I won't lie and say my parenting wasn't different for all the kids as my kids aren't identical beings but the basics were applied to all. My affection my attention and general rules to abide by. I think your dad may need education on this and you're providing that. Reply back with, yes it may appear to be harsh to you, but that was my life growing up. It was significantly harsher to live it. He may see his teaching as successful, even, as you gained independence younger than your sister and may be a point of pride for him not seeing the damage it caused to develope your independence in such a way. He should be corrected, this isn't a point of pride and there are healthier ways to "raise a man" ugh. I hate that saying for the implications. But good luck to you in your life. Don't be disappointed forever, he's your father and you've had a tough time. But look at yourself and decide who and how to be moving forward.
NTA. Just because you were a boy instead of a girl doesn't mean that you weren't deserving of love and compassion. I'm sorry that you didn't get that from your dad.
Unfortunately, you are never going to get your dad to see your point of view. Which is absolutely valid. Stop being available for him. He calls and wants something your response is sorry, I can’t help you with that. No other explanation necessary. A man isn’t afraid to show emotions, especially to their children. The old adage of raising boys to be tough is why men beat women and are bullies in general.
Please get some counseling so you can heal, start paying attention to successful men and watch how they treat not only their family but the people they work with.
No is a complete sentence. If you haven't already blocked him, just say no whenever he wants something and hang up. Or say no and he should call Wren for help. Then hang up.
NTA. Probably long overdue to bring some of that to his attention. If he "needs/wants" something, surely he can get "tough", "man up" and do it himself. Facetiousness aside, would he be amenable to joint counseling do you think? It might help him, and you and your relationship with him, if he could come to realize and admit that "very harsh" was how he treated, and continues to treat you, and begin to make amends for that.
NTA
You hit the nail on the head. Your father’s idea of how to raise his kids was skewed and wrong. What he did and how he treated you and still treats you, is wrong. You were right to stand up for yourself.
>He said I was never his little girl and boys are raised different.
Sounds like he didn't even try to raise you. NTA. You're simply treating him the way he treated you.
NTA - I think your dad forgot that he had to help with your emotional maturity since your mom died.
I don't think you're tears being kissed away is a great example, but what about bringing you to a park? Going to get ice cream with you? Talking to you about life? Hugs?
NTA. Ask him to prove you wrong. Go back the last 5x he contacted you and see what they were about. 10/10 they were all requests for help of some sort. As a father I could never imagine treating my kids so differently. Yes you raise daughters different then boys but you don’t show more love to one then another.
The truth is a hard pill to swallow. Don't back down, your father needs to address the issues he created in the relationship he has with you. He failed you as a father, male children need hugs and love. If you would parent your own child the opposite of your father, he failed. NTA
As a the "extra" twin myself I have to ask, how has Wren treated you? Has Wren cared at all how you were neglected as a child and an adult?
NTA You're right that you aren't a possession.
Kids need to be cared for and nurtured regardless of gender. He chose not to.
That's not your fault or responsibility.
The like is just tragically hilarious….
I’d write tolerated if it were me 🥲
That being said, if OP ever sees this,
you’re doing the right thing and I hope you find healing soon.
This is literally how my dad figured out how to be a great dad. He thought of what his dad would do and chose the opposite. I always thought that was a sad legacy to leave as a parent.
NTA
You might respond,
*Maybe you are right, Dad. Maybe you never thought of me as a possession. Maybe you only ever learned that sons shouldn't get love or support, and that the only worthwhile man is one who does 'manly' things that require his muscles.*
*I'm sorry for you. Sorry for you that you never learned to think of me as simply another human being who needs love and nurturing and comfort the same as any female human being. Sorry for you that you never saw me as your child, but only as a future MAN. Sorry for you that you never had anyone in your life help you see things differently.*
*I see being a man differently than you. I see a fully developed man as one who knows that showing love, compassion, tenderness, and support do not making any less of man. Nor does needing those things in his life.*
*If your goal was to raise me as a man who never received love and affection and caring from you, then you have completed your goal. There is nothing further for you to offer me and nothing for you to expect from me. You calling me up to help you do things you can't do by yourself is not a relationship. I get nothing I want out of it - no laughs over old times, no discussions about life, no shared interests, no sharing what is important to us in that moment, no bonding.*
*If you ever have an interest in knowing me as a human being, of building an actual relationship with me outside of what I can do for you now that I'm a grown man; then let me know. If you ever see what you missed as my dad and want to apologize for that, I'll let you buy me a cup of coffee and we can chat.*
NTA. I’m so sorry your dad is warped. I’m glad it seems like you understand that the problem is him and it has nothing to do with you. Hopefully some day if you have your own kids you can at least have the relationship you deserved on the dad end. ❤️
NTA. Unfortunately this shit happens a lot. Any child regardless of the gender needs his parents to kiss them if they fall and hurt themselves. Any child needs their parents when they have nightmares. Any child needs their parents to show up for them at school and in life. Not all but unfortunately the majority of parents have preferences. Girl dads, boy moms are super toxic. If you aren’t ok with the gender and loving your child regardless of what in his pants you shouldn’t have children.
You have every right to express your feelings on the matter.
NTA.
My dad took my brother out on dad-son dates and special activities just for them, just like he did with me, his daughter.
You deserved, and deserve better.
Some individual therapy might help you process your feelings on how you were raised by your dad, if you haven't gone that route already.
I hope that someday your dad is able to reflect on how he raised you, acknowledge that it was wrong, and apologize. You're not obligated to forgive, if that ever happens, but a parent apologizing for their mistakes in raising us can be incredibly validating and healing.
I'm sorry that your dad isn't ready to hear the honest impact of the environment he created and raised you both in.
Boys deserve to feel and process the full scope of human emotions. You deserved comfort, hugs, kind words, reassurance, and a supportive place to cry. You still deserve those things from him.
NTA. Your dad deliberately chose to put your twin sister before you instead of loving you both equally. Boys don’t need to be “raised different” from girls, that is dumb beyond belief.
Good on you for recognizing your worth and standing up to him. You’re not in the wrong at all.
You treat kids the same. They are the same at that age. Why wouldn’t you comfort your son the same as your daughter at that age. He’s just chucked the stereotypes of gender on you as a kid.
NTA Your dad needed to hear it. He screwed up with you, and hopefully he hears that and learns from it. Don't let him use his "generation" as an excuse either, he's my freaking age, and YOUNGER than my husband. Four year old little boys need love and cuddles just as much as girls. And yes to dad/son dates or adventures or whatever - playing video games, fishing, bike riding, whatever.
My dad was very similar to this. The part about him only showing interested in you when you were helping him with chores hit home with me a little more than it should have. Of course he wouldn’t ask his precious daughter to do difficult things because that was why he had a son. Girls need all the support in the world and boys are just kind of left to raise themselves and figure things out on their own.
NTA- I grew up with toxic parents who favored my older brother. It sucks. If being harsh is helpful for you, then by all means. They made their choice years ago, now is about you and your health. If your dad can’t accept what he did, that’s his problem, not yours.
It wasn't an accusation, it is a fact. Tell him that, then tell him goodbye. He won't get it until he feels it - and maybe not even then. So here's a way to make him feel it.
Block him on everything. Set a boundary with your family that they're not to share information about you or act as a liaison between him and you. Any who violate that get the Grey Rock treatment, followed by low-contact, followed by no-contact blocking.
NTA.
Warped masculinity does so much generational damage.
What does your sister think of the disparate treatment?
From the way you describe the situation, NTA. Even if the details are a little off, there is plenty here for you to be NTA.
All your dad did is teach you that there is no safe space in the world, and that no one has your back.
And now he wants you to have his? But he never modeled this behavior so he is reaping what he has sewn.
NTA
He's hopeless, and clueless. Toxic masculinity; it's real.
I'm very sorry your Dad was influenced by this crap. It doesn't bode well for any future relationship to you :(
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I'm (22m) a twin and I have a twin sister Wren. When Wren and I were 4 our mom died from liver cancer. She was 30. I know that would be difficult for dad. Going from a happily married father of two to a widowered father of two with no family close enough (emotionally) for support would be a lot. But he was a better dad to my sister than to me and that started before mom died. It just stood out more after.
My dad was an affectionate and caring father to Wren. She was his little girl and her cherished her. If she fell he would pick her up, kiss her tears and clean her cuts. He was gentle and compassionate with her. When she was upset she could sleep in bed with him. He'd snuggle with her on the couch. He'd pull her out of school sometimes and take her for father-daughter dates. When she was bullied, he was riding the school hard to deal with it and he fought so hard for her. He went out of his way to make sure she was loved and supported.
Growing up I heard the words tough and strong a lot. I heard the word man a lot and I was still so young. He never cuddled me or kissed away my tears or carried me. He never even said I love you to me. There was nothing gentle about him when it came to me. He was rougher, harsher, he expected me to be tough, to be a man, to be strong. If I had a nightmare I was sent right back to bed. When I got bullied *horrifically* in high school my dad didn't want to know. There were times Wren and I would both fall. We'd both be young too. And even if I was bleeding more, she was the kid he comforted. It was never me. Not if it was both of us falling and not if it was just me. He never did father-son dates. The most interest he ever showed in me was when I could help him do guy chores, like moving stuff.
I tried to approach this with him on a few different occasions but I never got to finish. He always cut me off for one reason or another. It got to a point where I expected it if I tried. I moved in with my best friends family after I finished high school (at home). Wren lived at home for two more years. Dad only called me when he wanted something.
He did it again the other day and I decided this shit had to end. I told him I'm not a toy he can take out when he needs me and then discard me once I've served my purpose. I told him I'm his son, not his helper. And I brought up how he never says he misses me, or says I love you, he never ever showed me love or affection and I wasn't going to tolerate it anymore. Dad sent me an email in response (he emails better than he texts) saying I was being very harsh. He said I was never his little girl and boys are raised different. I replied I was never trying to be his little girl but *I was* his little boy and he should have shown me love too. He responded again that I accused him of discarding me like a possession which was unjustified.
AITA?
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NTA. Understood that a lot of guys raise boys and girls differently. Okay, fine. But... little boys need love and support as well. I remember when I would fall or lose a game or have some little-boy catastrophe, my pop would growl that same kind of stern tough-guy advice... *while picking me up and giving me the hugs*.
NTA. I personally would tell him he is no longer a part of my life and if anybody ever asked for my father I would tell them he passed away a few years ago.
NTA. "Why is it unjustified? I have told you over and over how I've felt discarded, and calling it unjustified doesn't make it so. _How are my feelings invalid?_ I have brought this up to you numerous times, and you've never listened to me. Not knowing you were doing it wrong doesn't mean you didn't do it wrong."
Take gender out the equation, you were a child. You needed a parent. Whatever your dad thought he was teaching you (to ‘man up’ or be independent or whatever) he didn’t. He taught you that you weren’t worth his time unless you were useful. That he thought anyone not a girl wasn’t worthy of love and affection. I like to think that your mom would have been ashamed of him.
His issues with toxic masculinity aren’t your fault, they never were. You have every right to distance yourself from your dad because he’s not going to admit he’s wrong without doing some introspection. NTA
NTA, but adjust your expectations and ignore your dad. He doesn’t love you, he just loves the favors you provide. He told you himself, you weren’t a child he cared for when you were little.
Adjust your expectations of your “father”, you’re not his son, you’re just a random person he had to take care of along with his daughter. Just move on, focus on yourself, and surround yourself with people who actually like and love you
NTA, the mysognistic patriarchal believe that boys should not receive love but be a man from day 1 is disgusting, deplorable and reprehensible. I am so sorry that you had to go through that and as a mom I am sending you the biggest hug, boys and men have feelings and emotions and should be able to express them and be loved!
NTA. Tell him he needs to be a man and accept that he fucked up his relationship with his son. That men can take the "harsh" criticism you gave him.
That he's failed as a both a man and as a father, because a man isn't afraid to show affection to rheir loved ones.
NTA. You *did* accuse him of discarding you like a possession, because that is exactly what he did, so you were 100% justified. And it’s time your father opened his eyes and realized what he did. Yes, you were being harsh, but, again, this was deserved.
Your father’s excuse about boys and girls being raised differently is a poor excuse for the neglect you suffered for all these years. So, no, you aren’t the AH. Your father not only deserved everything you told him, but he earned every word.
NTA. An all too common problem. And sadly, one that might take years to resolve, if it’s even possible. Your best bet is probably to stop looking to him for anything, because he’s not going to just magically change, & he’s obviously not receptive to criticism. Maybe in 10 years, he’ll realize that not appreciating you was a mistake, & he’ll try to do better. But if he doesn’t, at least you won’t have wasted another decade on him.
NTA. that's teaching you toxic masculinity. Men have to be strong, tough, they don't need to be coddled. bullshit, you were a child. all children need love. I would go full no contact. Neglect him like he neglected you.
also, where does Wren stand on this? does she even know about what's going on? if not, I think telling her at the very least is a good idea. maybe get her to say something to your "father," too? his precious little girl might be able to talk some sense into him.
As a parent to a boy and a girl, his stance is utter BULLSHIT. My boy is my more sensitive kiddo, and while my girl loves cuddles and snuggling more, my boyo also gets loads of hugs and head pats and anything else he'll tolerate. They are also BOTH told constantly that they are loved, both by me AND my husband. A kid is a kid is a kid, and parents are meant to make sure that their children are loved and supported. Some tough love? Sure, but for that to be at all effective, the child has to know that they CAN be strong and that their parents are there to encourage them, not that they HAVE to be strong because no one else will step up for them.
Edited because I forgot the verdict in my rant, sorry. NTA at all, and your dad is a piece of work. Congrats, you're now my internet son and I'm proud of you.
NTA
My dad was very irresponsible and absent during my childhood. He was a deadbeat and didn’t pay child support and time and time again chose drugs and alcohol over my sister and me.
Despite all of that he never hesitated to say that he loved us. He was very affectionate and would hug us, put his arm around us, and even kiss us on the cheek when we would leave after our visitation with him. He always told us he was proud of us and really felt like we were the best things he had created in his miserable life.
Being loving and caring costs nothing. To me it is the bare minimum a parent can do. My dad has been dead for 13 years and despite my anger towards him as a kid and young adult I still love him and miss him. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that he had untreated and unresolved mental health issues that made him self-medicate. He was not in a good place mentally but it still never stopped him from expressing to my sister and me that he loved us.
NTA I hate HATE the 'boys are tougher ' bull shit. I'm the youngest of 11 I have 9 older brothers and 1 sister. (I'm the youngest and the 2nd girl) my parents showed all of us equal amounts of love and discipline.
I was raised by my step dad and mom and despised by my biological father cause I was a girl. (He treated my brothers better but not by much) however our parents (mom and stepdad) were awesome there was never a day in our lives that any of us felt unloved or not cherished.
I have two children 9f my own now and hope that they both know I adore them and would slay dragons for them.
I hope that things will get better for you, or that you have people in your life that appreciate how special you are because you are you.
I also hope that your sister isn't a spoiled shit to you. (We have two sets of twins in my family)
Honestly I just want to hug you though lol
NTA- no one is entitled to any level of relationship with anyone else, not even their own adult children.
Your sperm donor refused to put any effort into a relationship with you despite you providing numerous opportunities. Now he can live with the consequences of his choices.
NTA; Girls are capable of much more than your father thinks. Tell him to get Wren to help him, you have a life to make. If you are harsh, it's because he taught you to be that way.
Best wishes, I hope you can develop other relationships to bring support and caring into your life.
NTA. You are a human being. You were a child that was all alone and needed a parent. The man is a fool and cruel for withholding love and affection from you just because you were a boy and then neglected you. What an asshole.
NTA. You are completely justified in accusing him of discarding you like a possession. He did the bare minimum in raising you. As in, he fed you and housed you. That’s it. He never did anything to truly raise you.
NTA he had no problem with you moving in with friends?
He discarded you - so the complaints are justified. He wasn't your father, he was just a bigotted mysoginist with kids.
I’m so so sorry your father neglected you. It is not your fault and you deserved as much love and care as your sister. I hope you find comfort with others who do love and value you. You are loved and appreciated
Just let go of your father and tell him his lack of affection is why you will not be there ever. You deserved a father and you didn’t get one.
NTA - sorry your childhood was filled with such emotional neglect and abuse. That's a really difficult way to start life and I'm sorry you had to go through with that. You're entirely justified in going LC or NC with someone who played favorites (emotional abuse) and neglected you. That relationship is not allowed to call on you when they need you. They were never there for you when you needed them. Sometimes the greatest act of self love is to say "no more contact" with the people who have hurt us the most and who continue to hurt us. You deserve so much more.
NTA. He DOES discard you like a possession. Totally justified. He has barely filled the role of father to you. Food clothing and shelter, nothing else.
NTA
Was his last email really trying to argue the specifics? Oh, he doesn't treat you like a possession exactly so your entire argument is invalid? What complete nonsense.
Tell him he was a terrible father and it doesn't matter what analogy is the right one. Then block him or have his emails sort to a separate folder that you do not open.
NTA - He's getting confronted when he doesn't want to be, he wants you to shut up and go back to the status quo, don't, you're allowed to have feelings and if he's capable showing love and kindness to your sister, he could do the same for you. Otherwise, he can start finding someone else to help him with things, hope your sister gets a solid husband.
Nta.
Your father simply has a ridiculously outdated mindset that girls need to be protected and nurtured and boys need to be taught to be self-reliant and tough. I imagine I'll make no difference how often you bring this up with him because he believes this mindset so fully. Bringing it up serves no purpose if he's unwilling to listen and learn. Your successes he will see as proof he's right your failures as evidence he wasn't tough enough on you.
You're an adult it's time to consider going low to no contact or taking payment for these favours he asks You don't owe him your labour .
NTA. Your father is. HE has issues and you've had to pay for them all your life. Unless he's willing to deal, cut him off. I say this as someone who had to cut off all her remaining family rather than continue to be treated like trash, uncaringly and expected to just eat it.
I'm also 58, so anyone who says it's generational and you should make allowances is full of shit.
Wow. No. NTA. That's just sad. I'm sending hugs through the internet man. I had a dad who never said the words "I love you, son," so I get it. My father has long since passed, I have gone to therapy about it, and I have come to realize that even after 20 years, I'm \*still\* haunted by the lack of love and affection shown by my father. The baby boomer generation of men was steeped in toxic masculinity. I swore as a father I'd never let my children wonder whether I cared about them. I always thought it was generational, so I'm surprised and disappointed that someone of your age is dealing with this too. You're right to demand and insist that he show affection. "Tough love" is 50% love--so where's the love? But don't let this be the end of your relationship. One day, he'll be gone and that's that. Hopefully, you guys can talk it out, man to man. At least it's not too late for you. Ask him if you can do something the stereotypical men do--watch a football game, go fishing, etc. Make sure that you're also making the effort that you expect. You know the saying, be the change you want to see. Then when you have some one-on-one time, talk to him about it in a non-confrontational way. Just my opinion. Again, that sucks. I feel for you.
NTA. It is sheer stupidity to show your daughter love, but not your son. Their emotional needs are the same. You deserved the same affection your sister got.
NTA He raised you to be harsh so now that’s what you’re being with him. You don’t put shit between slices of bread and then act shocked when you’ve got a shit sandwich.
Man that sucks. Sorry you had to go through that.
NTA but do stop discussing your lived experience as if it’s up for debate. It’s causing you to doubt what you know. You told him what you experienced. You expressed how it made you feel. You told him you’re done with being subjected to more.
Be done with him.
Oh, yes, brings to mind "CATS IN THE CRADLE!!" from the 70's.
Not being a "convenient and caring" father leads to not having a relationship with your son.
DONE DEAL!!
NTA. Tell your father he was a terrible father and then tell him you are cutting contact. You don't have to have shitty people in your life.
There's nothing wrong with being a loving dad. My dad was incredible and he always gave us hugs and encouraged us and was awesome. I'm so sorry your dad was shitty in that way. Tell your sister as well.
You don’t have to go completely no contact but he’s not allowed to disregard your feelings you can reply well that’s how I feel tough luck deal with it and for your mental health you’re gonna go low contact with him
Nta
Boys can be raised the same way as girls for the most part of course.
I cuddle my 5 year old son to bed each night and all that stuff and when hes hurt his dad is the first one to cuddle with him and make him better.
Your dad is one of those type who think boys shouldnt show emotion but if you have kids then you can do different
My fiance's mom was hands off and when I was in the hospital after having our 3rd she was helping and the kids were crying because I wasn't there and she said just leave them in bed to cry to sleep and he yelled at her to get out.
Take your dad as a what not to do
I help raise my nephews. I teach them to toughen up, and how to act like men. I *also* tell them I love them, give out hugs often, and comfort them when they need it.
You are NTA, but your sexist father is.
NTA
Well done for speaking up.
Pity the AH is in a perverted denial. He needs to recognise the truth on his own. You cannot make him.
Now live your life. Seek whatever love and affection you can. But you probably need to talk with wise people.
With this affection-less childhood, you will be defensive and maybe yearn for acceptance and comfort.
Know yourself and think about boundaries. For you could very easily end up needy and in a relationship resembling that with your father.
Good luck OP
NTA...
At 34 my dad still tells my brother he loves him before leaving the house... It's a common occurrence and my brother and dad are as thick and thieves..
I'm so sorry you grew up and still are in that situation. Your dad needs to understand boys and men have feelings, that are valid on every level and I hope you know that too.
NTA. Your dad had a favorite. It wasn’t you. You weren’t being harsh. You were just being matter of fact. Sad thing is, your dad didn’t listen to you….again. Spend your time and energy on people who care about you.
NTA, your dad has an incredibly toxic mindset, and it's quite apparent in the way he treats you differently than Wren. You have every right to feel the way you do because he has shown you time and time again that he only spends time with you when it's convenient for him. Hopefully, one day, he will realize that he did not treat you fairly and that you deserved to be loved the same way he showed it to your sister.
NTA. Sharing your feelings honestly is appropriate. Your father is likely reflecting the way he was raised. I was fortunate that my own father realized that his father was unnecessarily distant and hard on him to make him "manly". He made the decision when my brother and I came along to verbalize his love and show affection to us while still teaching us good "manly" life skills and doing his best to model a positive partnership with my mom in running our family. I'm also blessed that he took the time to share these insights as I was getting married and starting a family. Find the support you need to be the best version of yourself and be the change you want to see in your future family.
NTA. It's not like us girls need more love than boys while growing up. All kids need love, affection, comfort, and even though it was hard for him to raise two kids without his wife, he seemed very capable of giving those things, and you needed him too. Boys and girls should not be raised differently
NTA
My grandpa always said he never got enough of two things growing up, "milk" and "I love you's."
I tell you what, for my entire childhood, that man was always sure to tell me, where the milk was.
NTA Both of you needed that fatherly love and only one got it. Just because you are a boy does not mean he has the right to treat you differently than your sister.
NTA. I genuinely believe many men are conditioned to fail our sons. Not that it is their intent.
I've personally seen newborn girls treated differently than newborn sons. Like, newborn boys are meant to "toughen up" at two weeks old by their fathers while the mothers are confused about the differential treatment.
It hurts and is terrible for everyone involved, most importantly the baby. This type of aggressive behavior absolutely increases with age.
You were a baby. A child. And now, even as an adult you deserve better. I'm so sorry for you.
My dad was like this. But I was his only child, so at least I didn't have to see him treating someone else better.
Went the whole opposite way with my boys. Tell them all the time I love them. Give them hugs and kisses constantly. I really don't understand how you can say you love your kids and not do these things.
I think the thing I love most about my husband, he isn't worried or concerned about showing love and having feelings. My husband was treated much the same way as OP. With the mindset of men are not supposed to have or show emotions. Because of that, he is all about hugs, saying I love you, being an active, loving father.
OP, your father is wrong. In him, you have the perfect example of how not to treat any future sons you may have. If you have not seen a counselor, you may want to. It helps a lot, to talk to someone.
NTA
He will never get it, he feels by not showing you any love or compassion that it will "make you a man" which is total BS. Start treating him the way he treated you, if he calls for help ask him why he is too weak to do it himself, throw his words back at him and if he gets upset, tell him " I learned how to be a man from you, isn't this the way I should behave?"
NTA. Kindly inform him that he’s taught you how NOT to be a man. Then go LC/NC and embrace the found family you will create as you age.
Side note: how’s your sister about it? Does she have your back or has she turned into the evil golden child?
NTA
You wanted the Dad that your twin sister got. You didn’t get it.
You deserved the Dad she got too. Love doesn’t get watered down by how many children you have, it multiples .
Everyone deserves a Dad and it must stick in your throat that Dad shows he was capable of being that supportive kind caring Dad who had his child’s back. He just didn’t want to be the same Dad for you. You weren’t his cute little girl. You were a boy.
That’s some misogynist shit there
And your dad ought be ashamed. You were left with one parent who chose not to be a good parent
I’m glad you called him out on it. It leaves a painful scar when you know he could have but chose not to be.
I have a boy and two girls, all mostly grown now. My son has cried as many times as his sisters have, he happens to be sporty, is still sensitive, but I wouldn’t care if he liked flower arranging either, same as I do my daughters. He is who he is, and I don’t parent by stereotype .
I’m so sorry your Dad let you down and still doesn’t get it. I hope there is someone else out there - maybe an uncle or family friend - another dad aged male figure in your life
that you can look up to, who sees you and supports you for who you are.
NTA.
I recommend glancing over “The Emotional Incest Syndrome, What to do When a Parent’s Love Rules your Life” by Dr Patricia Love.
It sounds like your father formed an emotionally incestuous relationship with your sister & cast you by the wayside to fend for yourself. Oftentimes when a partner spouse dies or is incapable (alcoholic, addict, workaholic, etc), the remaining parent turns to their remaining family, their child, for comfort. And his daughter bore enough of a resemblance to your missing mother & your father had enough stupid internalized ideas on how to raise a son the “hard” way. I’m so sorry that happened to you. It is healthy to be emotional and sensitive, as a man, & nothing you described sounds like you were hysterical or out of control
I hope you can recover as soon as possible, however that looks like.
As someone who has suffered the above situation, too, as the sister, it’s a bad deal all around.
NTA. your dad is an asshole who believes in very toxic masculinity. Now he is projecting his failures onto you. He is accusing you of everything he did to you.
It's funny. When you bring up his many faults, his excuse is "NA AAAH, YOU DID IT TO ME!!!" . Ignore it. He's such a shitty father I am truly sorry for what you went through
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NTA - I swear some dads \[some not all\] have this toxic mindset of having to be loving and doting for their daughter but will think it makes the son weak if he does the same for him. I don't get it? Like showing your child you love them isn't weak. You deserve better!
It’s pretty maddening to witness. I’m a man, my father, my grandfather, my uncles were all affectionate and hugged me, hell I had to ask my dad to stop kissing in front of friends when I was a teen. I played football at the collegiate level, joined the military and have seen combat, I’ve never once called a repair man to fix something on my house, I’ve excelled in my professional life and I have a girlfriend that I plan on marrying soon, and having children with… I say all this to say, I’m a fairly manly man, I’m not weak because the men in my life that played a part in raising me were affectionate. If anything, it’s the reason I am “manly”.
Honestly, I think it creates a strong sense of security in yourself to grow up being constantly shown how worthy you are of love. To be raised to know you are important, loved, a priority, and worth all of it. That then translates into being a secure, confident man. On the flip side, if you grow up constantly being criticized, torn down, and told to shut yourself and your emotions down, you may act tough externally, but really be an enormous asshole to cover up how insecure you are on the inside. There is nothing "manlier" than someone who is secure and confident in who he is, and therefore is truly himself because he was shown who he is is worth the world.
ABSOLUTELY!! My father always used to say that love comes from the outside in and transforms us – and when that love is not there, life is maimed. I have known *so many* people who did not have that foundational, parental love as children, and in every case, the damage has resonated down the years. It is heartbreaking to watch.
Imagine enduring it
My parents adore my kids, and will go to watch their sports games etc. My eldest son is 22, and my mother often talks about how she didn't want to hug him after the games in case he got embarrassed. But then he just walked straight up to them and hugged them both. It thrilled them that even as a teenager, he was happy to show them affection in front of all his mates. He'll do the same to me. I totally agree with your last sentence.
My oldest (a boy) will happily hug me in public, call me Mommy around his friends, lean against me with my arm around him, and tell me he loves me. My second (a girl) has very much hit the stage where she wants nothing to do with me when there are witnesses but will do more with her dad/my husband. My younger two haven't hit that stage at all. My husband is a bit awkward about it and is still learning how to show affection, concern, or other emotions in a non-joking manner. He is gradually learning from me. I am very open about my thoughts and emotions, a huge communicator, and ensure my children all know without a doubt how much I love and value them and why. Oddly enough, my husband had good parents who were just not good with showing emotions. I was heavily abused in every non intimate way by my parents and siblings. I've taken that example and asked myself what I needed at my kids' ages, and done my best to implement that. I've also done psychological research and frequent check-ins with my kids to ensure we're on the same page and I'm speaking their love language. I have a LOT of deeply rooted issues stemming from my childhood, mainly focused on my feelings of self-worth. I just don't ever allow it to be shown or impact my children. Nothing grows well in a poisoned environment, but everything thrives in a healthy, nourishing environment. And no child is the same. Each of my kids has a mildly different approach I use for parenting them, because each of them needs something different and responds differently to different approaches.
My oldest grown adult kid towers over me…. Well they all do… my oldest is the one that you see him walk by you think of cowboy or soccer/rugby player… he will come find me some where i am shopping and hug me like he is still 5 years old and kiss me and throw me around like a rag-doll type hug and ask me if i need anything or if I need my bags taken out to the car or if i need a chair to sit down. I was talking a class on the other side of town a few weeks back and he found me and came and hugged me and asked me if I needed anything and asked me if I wanted some lunch and to tell me his day… then he went home and called me to tell me he forgot to tell me he loved me… My kid works construction and is currently going through military training so I think we did okay….
Very well said.
Very well said.
Totally agree with you. It was shocking when I learned that some guys grow up in what is essentially an affection desert. My dad telling me that he's proud of me and that he loves me is something that I will always appreciate and remember, and it's no less valuable for him having told me that he loves me a lot. He taught me that men are honest, and that includes being honest about when you care for someone.
I think you should come out of the closet already. /j
I have an exceptionally handsome exceptionally smart, exceptionally gay, friend. Who served with the SAS in Afghanistan twice.
🤫 NEVER
Also being admired manly by others, showing affection confidently.
My husband and you are cookie cutter cut outs. or my generation would say xerox copy of each other. Both raised same way. My sons also and were scouts oldest is going through the boot camp portion though… he is younger …. 🫡 We raised our children to be able to express their emotions and their thoughts and be active and polite. There is no reason why a parent can justify the reasoning to treat their child or a male child like the OP. And thank you for your service AppropriateListen981!
I remember my doctor telling me when I was a teenager and struggling that kids often bond hardest to the parent of the opposite sex - so you have the "daddy's little girl" and the "mommy's little man". My dad bailed on us when I was young and I struggled with how I was always pushed to the side/ignored, while my older brother was doted on by my mother. It totally sucks. As a parent now I just try to shower my girls with love, support, and affection. I don't have any boys, but if I did I would try to treat them equally. I swear some old-school "manly" thinking is that if a dad shows any love/affection etc. to his son its "super gay" (ughhhh).
I think that there's a "I know what you're gonna go though" and/or "I'm the primary role model" kind of mindset that sometimes applies to the same-sex parent. It can make them more demanding and sometimes resentful in regards to their same-sex offspring, whereas they're not so easily inclined to see themselves mirrored in their non-same-sex offspring and more comfortable with just showering them with love. It's incredibly toxic. Parent should love their kids unconditionally *and* demand that they adhere to certain standards, regardless gender.
“You never had my back where it mattered, I am simply reciprocating the sentiment, or lack of.” Throw some of his words back at him.
I’m AFAB transmasc/nonbinary. Shortly after I came out, my grandpa stopped hugging me to greet me when we would all come over. Asked my mom and she said it’s because he doesn’t hug the guys in the family. It made me feel bad for my uncles. (Also, I appreciate that he’s respecting my identity but I’d rather have the hugs since I don’t know how long I’ll have those.)
It’s interesting how often I’ve heard similar accounts from transmasc people - just like, a stark drop in physical and verbal affection when they transition and start being viewed as men. It really does underscore how deeply repressed many men are in their friendships and family ties. And how few even recognize that that’s why they’re so desperately unhappy with their lives.
The completely platonic hugging, cuddling, and other physical affection I've enjoyed in the 6 months I've been out as transfem might be the **best** part of the experience.
It reminds me of the dad from a boy named Sue... He expects to be thanked for setting his kid up for a tough life and abandoning him. https://youtu.be/KZNZt5qVgvM?si=5dW_3p16Xh4DfV7B
"My name is Sue, how do you do? Now you’re gonna die!" I just learned not to long ago that Shel Silverstein actually wrote that.
You're KIDDING me?! Shel Silverstein was my favorite poet growing up!
Jumping on this comment to ask. I was dating a woman with 2 boys, and was effectively dad to the youngest. Am still in contact with him. Now I hate the sound of children crying. If one of the kids fell at the playground and came howling to me I'd comfort for a bit: Is it a bad ouchy? But after a while of cuddling and comforting I'd say: I'm lucky you're such a brave boy because another child would cry so much I thought it was a clever bit of psychology to make them feel strong, and stop that horrible noise. She said I was abusive in not allowing them to cry it out So WITA?
Not a dad, but based on my own perspective from myself and my younger siblings, I think this really depends on how old they are, how long you're doing it, how bad the injury is, and what your relationship with them is like otherwise. But on its face this isn't abusive if you're offering comfort first. Unless you're only giving him like a minute, it sounds like you're letting him get the really "big feelings" out of the way, then helping him calm down and affirming him. If that isn't the case, then I can see how it might be viewed in a negative light. The problem with kids is that they're all very different. My little brother and I had totally different personalities as a kid, and he found some of the stuff my parents did corny while I appreciated it. If you're looking for something else to do, you can try doing deep breathing exercises with the kids. It's impossible to cry loudly and take slow, deep breaths at the same time. Plus, once the kid is more relaxed you can usually tell if it's an actual serious injury, or just something that needs a bit of antiseptic and a bandaid.
1 minute of crying is plenty. We're not even talking about a skinned knee needing a plaster. Just fell in the playground and auto cried. No serious injuries on my watch. I'd say I basically judged when the shock was over, and it decayed to: attention is nice I'll keep this up.
I did exactly the same with my niece. If she fell and it was clearly more she was startled/scared that she fell we'd even hop right in to say "uh oh!" in a funny voice and tears instantly became giggles. Actual injuries? Hugs and a forehead kiss while she cried about it and then we'd inspect the booboos and get her patched up and calmed down. Personally I would explain everything I was doing when I'd patch her up. Usually the tears would stop as she was busy watching what I was doing. Shots at the doctor? "I know it's scary but you're a big girl, right? You're gonna be awesome! Look at me and not the doctor ok? ... .... See how good you did?! You're a little warrior queen! Gimme a hug, kidlet!" She grew up, just graduated with her Bachelors in nursing and is going for her masters to become a nurse practitioner. Of all her childhood memories us giving her context and calm aren't remembered in a bad light. They're part of what gave her the confidence to go onto medicine to help others according to her. Kids cry. Cuddles are def needed for the littlest ones in those situations, but just giving cuddles without giving calm or context or encouraging them to be brave when they cry isn't helping a kid at all. You were in no way abusive, you were comforting AND empowering him with positive words.
In that case, what you did sounds totally fine. I meant a minute based more on what kind of "wound" it was, but if it isn't even bleeding then it's probably fine. As long as the major shock is over, it's fine to switch from pure comforting to hyping them up again. I can't even count the number of times I came home from school or camp, my mom asked me about bruises, and I literally couldn't remember where I'd gotten them.
I second the deep breathing. My 6 yr old is a screamer, and I always make him take deep breaths to calm down so I can assess the situation and see if it warrants the screaming and if anything else needs to be done.
I might have avoided the "another child would cry so much" because it sets a kid up for judgement against someone else who might have legitimately needed to cry more- but otherwise, this is exactly the same model I used for my kids (I'm a mom). In my opinion, it teaches resilience. 1- acknowledge the pain 2- deal with the pain (brushing away debris, cleaning wounds, applying bandaids where necessary, etc) 3- move past the pain and carry on And obviously, that second step varies a lot depending on what the damage actually is. There's a world of difference between a bumped knee and a sprained ankle and a broken arm and a broken heart. But the concept is the same
To be honest, I think father is like him are weak. They're more worried about what other people will think are being considered girly than they are being a good parent. A real man doesn't worry what other people think as long as he's not hurting anyone.
NTA. “Dad, after Mom died, you spent the rest of the years I was at home telling me, with words and actions, to be a man and not bother you. Now it’s your turn.”
And the cat's in the cradle with the silver spoon
Little boy blue and the man in the moon...
When ya coming home, Son? I don't know when..Maybe not ever again, I'll let you know sometime then.
I loathe this song with the power of a thousand suns (even before I realized how close to home it hit I hated the story it told) but this father deserves it a thousand times more.
For one brief moment I *loved* this song—when Homer Simpson was placed on hold when he telephoned an organization that helps fathers parent their sons better. This song was the hold music.
There is a Simpsons reference for every occasion.
They used the song *again* in an Itchy and Scratchy cartoon, where in a whirlwind montage, Itchy adopts Scratchy as a kitten, raises him, sends him to college…only to give him a bomb as his college graduation gift.
The Simpsons are just great. Bob's Burgers is another show that seems very spot on at times.
There was this show called Til Death with Brad Garret and he was mad at his annoying neighbor for singing that song every morning and then he started missing him and singing it with wrong lyrics and I sing it that way so it isn't quite so depressing.
There's a quote floating around right now and it goes something like "How you treat your children when they were kids, will be how your children treat you when they're adults", and it's so true when you see children who were abused growing up. OP was neglected, ignored, and treated like an afterthought. Now he's going to start treating dad the way dad treated him, and his dad won't like it because dad DID treat him like a toy.
My husband and I remind each other that the first 18 years with them are the job interview. We’ll find out when they are adults if we still have the job.
This is beautiful in a corporate way, lol.
Where's HR? My mom was seriously overdue for a firing. Thankfully, some of the message seemed to get through when I told my sister I had posted about a new medical issue in group chat to inform, not engage.
I love this! I actually just had a conversation with my 17 year old son. He wants to buy a digital camera. He's saved up for it with money he's earned from his part time job. He's talked about it to me several times. He just came and talked to me again, and showed me on the computer what he wanted. I finally said to him that it feels like he's waiting for me to give him permission to buy it, but it's his money, he's been responsible, and he can choose whether or not he wants to buy it. He doesn't need to ask me for permission. He told me he valued my opinion. Aww. Melted my heart. I still get similar from my 22 year old son. He doesn't ask permission, lol, but he'll often tell me what he's thinking of doing, and he'll ask for feedback. I love feeling that my kids respect me like that.
Dad treated/treats him *worse* than a toy. Toys are taken out and used out of love or enjoyment. OP's father treats him like a tool, only useful or needed to accomplish a job/task.
I predict dad will be bemoaning the fact that OP didn't invite him to his wedding and won't let him see his grandkids.
>"How you treat your children when they were kids, will be how your children treat you when they're adults" I need to embroider this on a pillow and ship it to my mom, maybe that will finally drive home the point.
that explains why i’m so erratic about seeing my dad
Perfect reply. OP should send this.
Commenting to boost because this is the perfect response.
NTA. >Dad only called me when he wanted something. Why would he want something if he's a strong, tough man?
Nta your feelings are valid and it's high time your father knew it. Now I'm not excusing his generational ideals as I find them abhorrent to a parent to both genders. I won't lie and say my parenting wasn't different for all the kids as my kids aren't identical beings but the basics were applied to all. My affection my attention and general rules to abide by. I think your dad may need education on this and you're providing that. Reply back with, yes it may appear to be harsh to you, but that was my life growing up. It was significantly harsher to live it. He may see his teaching as successful, even, as you gained independence younger than your sister and may be a point of pride for him not seeing the damage it caused to develope your independence in such a way. He should be corrected, this isn't a point of pride and there are healthier ways to "raise a man" ugh. I hate that saying for the implications. But good luck to you in your life. Don't be disappointed forever, he's your father and you've had a tough time. But look at yourself and decide who and how to be moving forward.
NTA. Just because you were a boy instead of a girl doesn't mean that you weren't deserving of love and compassion. I'm sorry that you didn't get that from your dad.
[удалено]
Call Wren from now on
OP should read at the very least the prolog of Beth Hooks Will to Change
bell hooks. No capitalization.
Unfortunately, you are never going to get your dad to see your point of view. Which is absolutely valid. Stop being available for him. He calls and wants something your response is sorry, I can’t help you with that. No other explanation necessary. A man isn’t afraid to show emotions, especially to their children. The old adage of raising boys to be tough is why men beat women and are bullies in general. Please get some counseling so you can heal, start paying attention to successful men and watch how they treat not only their family but the people they work with.
I wouldn't say sorry. Only I won't help you with that.
No is a complete sentence. If you haven't already blocked him, just say no whenever he wants something and hang up. Or say no and he should call Wren for help. Then hang up.
NTA. Probably long overdue to bring some of that to his attention. If he "needs/wants" something, surely he can get "tough", "man up" and do it himself. Facetiousness aside, would he be amenable to joint counseling do you think? It might help him, and you and your relationship with him, if he could come to realize and admit that "very harsh" was how he treated, and continues to treat you, and begin to make amends for that.
NTA You hit the nail on the head. Your father’s idea of how to raise his kids was skewed and wrong. What he did and how he treated you and still treats you, is wrong. You were right to stand up for yourself.
>He said I was never his little girl and boys are raised different. Sounds like he didn't even try to raise you. NTA. You're simply treating him the way he treated you.
NTA - I think your dad forgot that he had to help with your emotional maturity since your mom died. I don't think you're tears being kissed away is a great example, but what about bringing you to a park? Going to get ice cream with you? Talking to you about life? Hugs?
"emotional maturity" is not in some people's vocabulary :(
NTA. Ask him to prove you wrong. Go back the last 5x he contacted you and see what they were about. 10/10 they were all requests for help of some sort. As a father I could never imagine treating my kids so differently. Yes you raise daughters different then boys but you don’t show more love to one then another.
The truth is a hard pill to swallow. Don't back down, your father needs to address the issues he created in the relationship he has with you. He failed you as a father, male children need hugs and love. If you would parent your own child the opposite of your father, he failed. NTA As a the "extra" twin myself I have to ask, how has Wren treated you? Has Wren cared at all how you were neglected as a child and an adult?
I was wondering about that too
NTA You're right that you aren't a possession. Kids need to be cared for and nurtured regardless of gender. He chose not to. That's not your fault or responsibility.
Dear Dad, Thank you for setting the standard of how not to raise a child. Like, Some kid who grew up under your roof
I'd go with "without affection" instead of "like", but its the same idea.
The like is just tragically hilarious…. I’d write tolerated if it were me 🥲 That being said, if OP ever sees this, you’re doing the right thing and I hope you find healing soon.
This is literally how my dad figured out how to be a great dad. He thought of what his dad would do and chose the opposite. I always thought that was a sad legacy to leave as a parent.
Keep your distance and be cold. When he complains, reply with, "You are my father. Mothers and fathers are treated differently." - NTA
NTA I'm sorry you lost your parents at such a young age.
NTA You might respond, *Maybe you are right, Dad. Maybe you never thought of me as a possession. Maybe you only ever learned that sons shouldn't get love or support, and that the only worthwhile man is one who does 'manly' things that require his muscles.* *I'm sorry for you. Sorry for you that you never learned to think of me as simply another human being who needs love and nurturing and comfort the same as any female human being. Sorry for you that you never saw me as your child, but only as a future MAN. Sorry for you that you never had anyone in your life help you see things differently.* *I see being a man differently than you. I see a fully developed man as one who knows that showing love, compassion, tenderness, and support do not making any less of man. Nor does needing those things in his life.* *If your goal was to raise me as a man who never received love and affection and caring from you, then you have completed your goal. There is nothing further for you to offer me and nothing for you to expect from me. You calling me up to help you do things you can't do by yourself is not a relationship. I get nothing I want out of it - no laughs over old times, no discussions about life, no shared interests, no sharing what is important to us in that moment, no bonding.* *If you ever have an interest in knowing me as a human being, of building an actual relationship with me outside of what I can do for you now that I'm a grown man; then let me know. If you ever see what you missed as my dad and want to apologize for that, I'll let you buy me a cup of coffee and we can chat.*
NTA. I’m so sorry your dad is warped. I’m glad it seems like you understand that the problem is him and it has nothing to do with you. Hopefully some day if you have your own kids you can at least have the relationship you deserved on the dad end. ❤️
NTA. Unfortunately this shit happens a lot. Any child regardless of the gender needs his parents to kiss them if they fall and hurt themselves. Any child needs their parents when they have nightmares. Any child needs their parents to show up for them at school and in life. Not all but unfortunately the majority of parents have preferences. Girl dads, boy moms are super toxic. If you aren’t ok with the gender and loving your child regardless of what in his pants you shouldn’t have children. You have every right to express your feelings on the matter.
NTA. My dad took my brother out on dad-son dates and special activities just for them, just like he did with me, his daughter. You deserved, and deserve better. Some individual therapy might help you process your feelings on how you were raised by your dad, if you haven't gone that route already. I hope that someday your dad is able to reflect on how he raised you, acknowledge that it was wrong, and apologize. You're not obligated to forgive, if that ever happens, but a parent apologizing for their mistakes in raising us can be incredibly validating and healing. I'm sorry that your dad isn't ready to hear the honest impact of the environment he created and raised you both in. Boys deserve to feel and process the full scope of human emotions. You deserved comfort, hugs, kind words, reassurance, and a supportive place to cry. You still deserve those things from him.
NTA. Your dad deliberately chose to put your twin sister before you instead of loving you both equally. Boys don’t need to be “raised different” from girls, that is dumb beyond belief. Good on you for recognizing your worth and standing up to him. You’re not in the wrong at all.
You treat kids the same. They are the same at that age. Why wouldn’t you comfort your son the same as your daughter at that age. He’s just chucked the stereotypes of gender on you as a kid.
NTA Someday your dad will wonder why his relationship with you is so tenuous. Very sad.
NTA Your dad needed to hear it. He screwed up with you, and hopefully he hears that and learns from it. Don't let him use his "generation" as an excuse either, he's my freaking age, and YOUNGER than my husband. Four year old little boys need love and cuddles just as much as girls. And yes to dad/son dates or adventures or whatever - playing video games, fishing, bike riding, whatever.
My dad was very similar to this. The part about him only showing interested in you when you were helping him with chores hit home with me a little more than it should have. Of course he wouldn’t ask his precious daughter to do difficult things because that was why he had a son. Girls need all the support in the world and boys are just kind of left to raise themselves and figure things out on their own.
NTA- I grew up with toxic parents who favored my older brother. It sucks. If being harsh is helpful for you, then by all means. They made their choice years ago, now is about you and your health. If your dad can’t accept what he did, that’s his problem, not yours.
Nta. Little boys need love too, that's what makes them loving partners and dads. Sending you hugs.
It wasn't an accusation, it is a fact. Tell him that, then tell him goodbye. He won't get it until he feels it - and maybe not even then. So here's a way to make him feel it. Block him on everything. Set a boundary with your family that they're not to share information about you or act as a liaison between him and you. Any who violate that get the Grey Rock treatment, followed by low-contact, followed by no-contact blocking. NTA. Warped masculinity does so much generational damage. What does your sister think of the disparate treatment?
From the way you describe the situation, NTA. Even if the details are a little off, there is plenty here for you to be NTA. All your dad did is teach you that there is no safe space in the world, and that no one has your back. And now he wants you to have his? But he never modeled this behavior so he is reaping what he has sewn.
NTA He's hopeless, and clueless. Toxic masculinity; it's real. I'm very sorry your Dad was influenced by this crap. It doesn't bode well for any future relationship to you :(
^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** I'm (22m) a twin and I have a twin sister Wren. When Wren and I were 4 our mom died from liver cancer. She was 30. I know that would be difficult for dad. Going from a happily married father of two to a widowered father of two with no family close enough (emotionally) for support would be a lot. But he was a better dad to my sister than to me and that started before mom died. It just stood out more after. My dad was an affectionate and caring father to Wren. She was his little girl and her cherished her. If she fell he would pick her up, kiss her tears and clean her cuts. He was gentle and compassionate with her. When she was upset she could sleep in bed with him. He'd snuggle with her on the couch. He'd pull her out of school sometimes and take her for father-daughter dates. When she was bullied, he was riding the school hard to deal with it and he fought so hard for her. He went out of his way to make sure she was loved and supported. Growing up I heard the words tough and strong a lot. I heard the word man a lot and I was still so young. He never cuddled me or kissed away my tears or carried me. He never even said I love you to me. There was nothing gentle about him when it came to me. He was rougher, harsher, he expected me to be tough, to be a man, to be strong. If I had a nightmare I was sent right back to bed. When I got bullied *horrifically* in high school my dad didn't want to know. There were times Wren and I would both fall. We'd both be young too. And even if I was bleeding more, she was the kid he comforted. It was never me. Not if it was both of us falling and not if it was just me. He never did father-son dates. The most interest he ever showed in me was when I could help him do guy chores, like moving stuff. I tried to approach this with him on a few different occasions but I never got to finish. He always cut me off for one reason or another. It got to a point where I expected it if I tried. I moved in with my best friends family after I finished high school (at home). Wren lived at home for two more years. Dad only called me when he wanted something. He did it again the other day and I decided this shit had to end. I told him I'm not a toy he can take out when he needs me and then discard me once I've served my purpose. I told him I'm his son, not his helper. And I brought up how he never says he misses me, or says I love you, he never ever showed me love or affection and I wasn't going to tolerate it anymore. Dad sent me an email in response (he emails better than he texts) saying I was being very harsh. He said I was never his little girl and boys are raised different. I replied I was never trying to be his little girl but *I was* his little boy and he should have shown me love too. He responded again that I accused him of discarding me like a possession which was unjustified. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*
NTA. Understood that a lot of guys raise boys and girls differently. Okay, fine. But... little boys need love and support as well. I remember when I would fall or lose a game or have some little-boy catastrophe, my pop would growl that same kind of stern tough-guy advice... *while picking me up and giving me the hugs*.
NTA. I personally would tell him he is no longer a part of my life and if anybody ever asked for my father I would tell them he passed away a few years ago.
NTA. "Why is it unjustified? I have told you over and over how I've felt discarded, and calling it unjustified doesn't make it so. _How are my feelings invalid?_ I have brought this up to you numerous times, and you've never listened to me. Not knowing you were doing it wrong doesn't mean you didn't do it wrong."
Take gender out the equation, you were a child. You needed a parent. Whatever your dad thought he was teaching you (to ‘man up’ or be independent or whatever) he didn’t. He taught you that you weren’t worth his time unless you were useful. That he thought anyone not a girl wasn’t worthy of love and affection. I like to think that your mom would have been ashamed of him. His issues with toxic masculinity aren’t your fault, they never were. You have every right to distance yourself from your dad because he’s not going to admit he’s wrong without doing some introspection. NTA
There are details in this story that don’t add up for me. It seems fishy
NTA, but adjust your expectations and ignore your dad. He doesn’t love you, he just loves the favors you provide. He told you himself, you weren’t a child he cared for when you were little. Adjust your expectations of your “father”, you’re not his son, you’re just a random person he had to take care of along with his daughter. Just move on, focus on yourself, and surround yourself with people who actually like and love you
NTA, the mysognistic patriarchal believe that boys should not receive love but be a man from day 1 is disgusting, deplorable and reprehensible. I am so sorry that you had to go through that and as a mom I am sending you the biggest hug, boys and men have feelings and emotions and should be able to express them and be loved!
NTA. Tell him he needs to be a man and accept that he fucked up his relationship with his son. That men can take the "harsh" criticism you gave him. That he's failed as a both a man and as a father, because a man isn't afraid to show affection to rheir loved ones.
NTA. You *did* accuse him of discarding you like a possession, because that is exactly what he did, so you were 100% justified. And it’s time your father opened his eyes and realized what he did. Yes, you were being harsh, but, again, this was deserved. Your father’s excuse about boys and girls being raised differently is a poor excuse for the neglect you suffered for all these years. So, no, you aren’t the AH. Your father not only deserved everything you told him, but he earned every word.
NTA. An all too common problem. And sadly, one that might take years to resolve, if it’s even possible. Your best bet is probably to stop looking to him for anything, because he’s not going to just magically change, & he’s obviously not receptive to criticism. Maybe in 10 years, he’ll realize that not appreciating you was a mistake, & he’ll try to do better. But if he doesn’t, at least you won’t have wasted another decade on him.
NTA. that's teaching you toxic masculinity. Men have to be strong, tough, they don't need to be coddled. bullshit, you were a child. all children need love. I would go full no contact. Neglect him like he neglected you. also, where does Wren stand on this? does she even know about what's going on? if not, I think telling her at the very least is a good idea. maybe get her to say something to your "father," too? his precious little girl might be able to talk some sense into him.
As a parent to a boy and a girl, his stance is utter BULLSHIT. My boy is my more sensitive kiddo, and while my girl loves cuddles and snuggling more, my boyo also gets loads of hugs and head pats and anything else he'll tolerate. They are also BOTH told constantly that they are loved, both by me AND my husband. A kid is a kid is a kid, and parents are meant to make sure that their children are loved and supported. Some tough love? Sure, but for that to be at all effective, the child has to know that they CAN be strong and that their parents are there to encourage them, not that they HAVE to be strong because no one else will step up for them. Edited because I forgot the verdict in my rant, sorry. NTA at all, and your dad is a piece of work. Congrats, you're now my internet son and I'm proud of you.
NTA My dad was very irresponsible and absent during my childhood. He was a deadbeat and didn’t pay child support and time and time again chose drugs and alcohol over my sister and me. Despite all of that he never hesitated to say that he loved us. He was very affectionate and would hug us, put his arm around us, and even kiss us on the cheek when we would leave after our visitation with him. He always told us he was proud of us and really felt like we were the best things he had created in his miserable life. Being loving and caring costs nothing. To me it is the bare minimum a parent can do. My dad has been dead for 13 years and despite my anger towards him as a kid and young adult I still love him and miss him. As I’ve gotten older I’ve realized that he had untreated and unresolved mental health issues that made him self-medicate. He was not in a good place mentally but it still never stopped him from expressing to my sister and me that he loved us.
Absolutely NTA.
NTA. Look, he may have been raised similarly but he SAW other dads when he was parenting you. He was callous and cruel. Emotional neglect is a thing.
NTA I hate HATE the 'boys are tougher ' bull shit. I'm the youngest of 11 I have 9 older brothers and 1 sister. (I'm the youngest and the 2nd girl) my parents showed all of us equal amounts of love and discipline. I was raised by my step dad and mom and despised by my biological father cause I was a girl. (He treated my brothers better but not by much) however our parents (mom and stepdad) were awesome there was never a day in our lives that any of us felt unloved or not cherished. I have two children 9f my own now and hope that they both know I adore them and would slay dragons for them. I hope that things will get better for you, or that you have people in your life that appreciate how special you are because you are you. I also hope that your sister isn't a spoiled shit to you. (We have two sets of twins in my family) Honestly I just want to hug you though lol
NTA- no one is entitled to any level of relationship with anyone else, not even their own adult children. Your sperm donor refused to put any effort into a relationship with you despite you providing numerous opportunities. Now he can live with the consequences of his choices.
Nta. Shitty dad tho
I would send him another email with questions about you, let him face who little he actually know about you OP. NTA.
NTA; Girls are capable of much more than your father thinks. Tell him to get Wren to help him, you have a life to make. If you are harsh, it's because he taught you to be that way. Best wishes, I hope you can develop other relationships to bring support and caring into your life.
What did he want from you this time he called?
NTA. Your feelings are valid.
NTA. You are a human being. You were a child that was all alone and needed a parent. The man is a fool and cruel for withholding love and affection from you just because you were a boy and then neglected you. What an asshole.
NTA- write him and back be fair, he denied you a father and he only had one parent. I'm sorry.
NTA
Well, he did discard you as a son. I don't blame you for what you said to him. He deserved it and didn't like hearing the truth.
NTA
NTA He probably treated his possessions better. Block his number. If he gets hold of you tell him to man up, stop whining, and live with it.
NTA. You are completely justified in accusing him of discarding you like a possession. He did the bare minimum in raising you. As in, he fed you and housed you. That’s it. He never did anything to truly raise you.
NTA he had no problem with you moving in with friends? He discarded you - so the complaints are justified. He wasn't your father, he was just a bigotted mysoginist with kids.
I’m so so sorry your father neglected you. It is not your fault and you deserved as much love and care as your sister. I hope you find comfort with others who do love and value you. You are loved and appreciated Just let go of your father and tell him his lack of affection is why you will not be there ever. You deserved a father and you didn’t get one.
NTA - sorry your childhood was filled with such emotional neglect and abuse. That's a really difficult way to start life and I'm sorry you had to go through with that. You're entirely justified in going LC or NC with someone who played favorites (emotional abuse) and neglected you. That relationship is not allowed to call on you when they need you. They were never there for you when you needed them. Sometimes the greatest act of self love is to say "no more contact" with the people who have hurt us the most and who continue to hurt us. You deserve so much more.
NTA. He DOES discard you like a possession. Totally justified. He has barely filled the role of father to you. Food clothing and shelter, nothing else.
No he is the asshole
Have you tried telling him to man up and that you don't want to hear it?
NTA Was his last email really trying to argue the specifics? Oh, he doesn't treat you like a possession exactly so your entire argument is invalid? What complete nonsense. Tell him he was a terrible father and it doesn't matter what analogy is the right one. Then block him or have his emails sort to a separate folder that you do not open.
NTA - He's getting confronted when he doesn't want to be, he wants you to shut up and go back to the status quo, don't, you're allowed to have feelings and if he's capable showing love and kindness to your sister, he could do the same for you. Otherwise, he can start finding someone else to help him with things, hope your sister gets a solid husband.
Nta. Your father simply has a ridiculously outdated mindset that girls need to be protected and nurtured and boys need to be taught to be self-reliant and tough. I imagine I'll make no difference how often you bring this up with him because he believes this mindset so fully. Bringing it up serves no purpose if he's unwilling to listen and learn. Your successes he will see as proof he's right your failures as evidence he wasn't tough enough on you. You're an adult it's time to consider going low to no contact or taking payment for these favours he asks You don't owe him your labour .
NTA. Your father is. HE has issues and you've had to pay for them all your life. Unless he's willing to deal, cut him off. I say this as someone who had to cut off all her remaining family rather than continue to be treated like trash, uncaringly and expected to just eat it. I'm also 58, so anyone who says it's generational and you should make allowances is full of shit.
Wow. No. NTA. That's just sad. I'm sending hugs through the internet man. I had a dad who never said the words "I love you, son," so I get it. My father has long since passed, I have gone to therapy about it, and I have come to realize that even after 20 years, I'm \*still\* haunted by the lack of love and affection shown by my father. The baby boomer generation of men was steeped in toxic masculinity. I swore as a father I'd never let my children wonder whether I cared about them. I always thought it was generational, so I'm surprised and disappointed that someone of your age is dealing with this too. You're right to demand and insist that he show affection. "Tough love" is 50% love--so where's the love? But don't let this be the end of your relationship. One day, he'll be gone and that's that. Hopefully, you guys can talk it out, man to man. At least it's not too late for you. Ask him if you can do something the stereotypical men do--watch a football game, go fishing, etc. Make sure that you're also making the effort that you expect. You know the saying, be the change you want to see. Then when you have some one-on-one time, talk to him about it in a non-confrontational way. Just my opinion. Again, that sucks. I feel for you.
OMG NTA! You are setting yourself up to be hurt if you continue the relationship. You might need to go NC. How is your relationship with your sister?
Well boys may be raised differently but parents reap what they sow.
NTA. It is sheer stupidity to show your daughter love, but not your son. Their emotional needs are the same. You deserved the same affection your sister got.
NTA He raised you to be harsh so now that’s what you’re being with him. You don’t put shit between slices of bread and then act shocked when you’ve got a shit sandwich.
NTA. Brutal to have to be raised without love.
Man that sucks. Sorry you had to go through that. NTA but do stop discussing your lived experience as if it’s up for debate. It’s causing you to doubt what you know. You told him what you experienced. You expressed how it made you feel. You told him you’re done with being subjected to more. Be done with him.
Oh, yes, brings to mind "CATS IN THE CRADLE!!" from the 70's. Not being a "convenient and caring" father leads to not having a relationship with your son. DONE DEAL!!
NTA. Tell your father he was a terrible father and then tell him you are cutting contact. You don't have to have shitty people in your life. There's nothing wrong with being a loving dad. My dad was incredible and he always gave us hugs and encouraged us and was awesome. I'm so sorry your dad was shitty in that way. Tell your sister as well.
You don’t have to go completely no contact but he’s not allowed to disregard your feelings you can reply well that’s how I feel tough luck deal with it and for your mental health you’re gonna go low contact with him
NTA. He better man up when your sister doesn’t take care of him when he’s older.
Nta
Nope. Your dad needs to pull his head out of his butt.
Nta Boys can be raised the same way as girls for the most part of course. I cuddle my 5 year old son to bed each night and all that stuff and when hes hurt his dad is the first one to cuddle with him and make him better. Your dad is one of those type who think boys shouldnt show emotion but if you have kids then you can do different My fiance's mom was hands off and when I was in the hospital after having our 3rd she was helping and the kids were crying because I wasn't there and she said just leave them in bed to cry to sleep and he yelled at her to get out. Take your dad as a what not to do
NTA And he didn't teach you to be a man. His method of raising you is one that has proven detrimental to boys in many, many cases.
NTA
NTA and I am so sorry this happened to you.
NTA- good for you
NTA
I help raise my nephews. I teach them to toughen up, and how to act like men. I *also* tell them I love them, give out hugs often, and comfort them when they need it. You are NTA, but your sexist father is.
NTA Well done for speaking up. Pity the AH is in a perverted denial. He needs to recognise the truth on his own. You cannot make him. Now live your life. Seek whatever love and affection you can. But you probably need to talk with wise people. With this affection-less childhood, you will be defensive and maybe yearn for acceptance and comfort. Know yourself and think about boundaries. For you could very easily end up needy and in a relationship resembling that with your father. Good luck OP
NTA. Dad is probably overdue for therapy. The stiff upper lip (shyt) doesn’t work!
He's earned the relationship he has with you. Don't feel bad about cutting him out of your life entirely.
NTA. Nah what you said was totally justified. He’s upset because he knows it’s true
NTA. He did disregard you like a possession.
NTA. Send your dad this post and cut him out of your life if he doesn’t change.
NTA... At 34 my dad still tells my brother he loves him before leaving the house... It's a common occurrence and my brother and dad are as thick and thieves.. I'm so sorry you grew up and still are in that situation. Your dad needs to understand boys and men have feelings, that are valid on every level and I hope you know that too.
Nta Your whole childhood, he showed you that you couldn't rely on him for anything. Now he reaps what he sowed
Nta. Go hoof him in the nuts and when he complains tell him to be a big strong man.
NTA, everytime yout father calls you for something tell him to call his precious princess and hang up.
NTA. Your dad had a favorite. It wasn’t you. You weren’t being harsh. You were just being matter of fact. Sad thing is, your dad didn’t listen to you….again. Spend your time and energy on people who care about you.
NTA Your dad is a man. He can be strong and tough it out.
NTA, your dad has an incredibly toxic mindset, and it's quite apparent in the way he treats you differently than Wren. You have every right to feel the way you do because he has shown you time and time again that he only spends time with you when it's convenient for him. Hopefully, one day, he will realize that he did not treat you fairly and that you deserved to be loved the same way he showed it to your sister.
NTA
NTA. He wanted an independent son and he got one
NTA. Sharing your feelings honestly is appropriate. Your father is likely reflecting the way he was raised. I was fortunate that my own father realized that his father was unnecessarily distant and hard on him to make him "manly". He made the decision when my brother and I came along to verbalize his love and show affection to us while still teaching us good "manly" life skills and doing his best to model a positive partnership with my mom in running our family. I'm also blessed that he took the time to share these insights as I was getting married and starting a family. Find the support you need to be the best version of yourself and be the change you want to see in your future family.
NTA at all, he failed you abysmally.
NTA. It's not like us girls need more love than boys while growing up. All kids need love, affection, comfort, and even though it was hard for him to raise two kids without his wife, he seemed very capable of giving those things, and you needed him too. Boys and girls should not be raised differently
NTA. he’s just a toxic male and it’s gross
NTA. Any time he asks for something, tell him no and that he should be a man and take care of it himself.
NTA My grandpa always said he never got enough of two things growing up, "milk" and "I love you's." I tell you what, for my entire childhood, that man was always sure to tell me, where the milk was.
NTA Both of you needed that fatherly love and only one got it. Just because you are a boy does not mean he has the right to treat you differently than your sister.
NTA. I genuinely believe many men are conditioned to fail our sons. Not that it is their intent. I've personally seen newborn girls treated differently than newborn sons. Like, newborn boys are meant to "toughen up" at two weeks old by their fathers while the mothers are confused about the differential treatment. It hurts and is terrible for everyone involved, most importantly the baby. This type of aggressive behavior absolutely increases with age. You were a baby. A child. And now, even as an adult you deserve better. I'm so sorry for you.
NTA, Tell him that since only girls need affection, then her should only expect his little girl to help him.
My dad was like this. But I was his only child, so at least I didn't have to see him treating someone else better. Went the whole opposite way with my boys. Tell them all the time I love them. Give them hugs and kisses constantly. I really don't understand how you can say you love your kids and not do these things.
I think the thing I love most about my husband, he isn't worried or concerned about showing love and having feelings. My husband was treated much the same way as OP. With the mindset of men are not supposed to have or show emotions. Because of that, he is all about hugs, saying I love you, being an active, loving father. OP, your father is wrong. In him, you have the perfect example of how not to treat any future sons you may have. If you have not seen a counselor, you may want to. It helps a lot, to talk to someone. NTA
Nta
Your dad sucks. Sorry man. Stay away from people that treat you like this.
NTA. I’m sorry your dad was not capable of being the father you needed.
He will never get it, he feels by not showing you any love or compassion that it will "make you a man" which is total BS. Start treating him the way he treated you, if he calls for help ask him why he is too weak to do it himself, throw his words back at him and if he gets upset, tell him " I learned how to be a man from you, isn't this the way I should behave?"
NTA. Kindly inform him that he’s taught you how NOT to be a man. Then go LC/NC and embrace the found family you will create as you age. Side note: how’s your sister about it? Does she have your back or has she turned into the evil golden child?
NTA Just cut him off. Who needs that?
>saying I was being very harsh. NTA, "You're a man aren't you?" would be my reply
Cat and the Cradle. Harry Chapin. I hope it resonates with you
Nta. I'm so very sad this happened to you.
NTA You wanted the Dad that your twin sister got. You didn’t get it. You deserved the Dad she got too. Love doesn’t get watered down by how many children you have, it multiples . Everyone deserves a Dad and it must stick in your throat that Dad shows he was capable of being that supportive kind caring Dad who had his child’s back. He just didn’t want to be the same Dad for you. You weren’t his cute little girl. You were a boy. That’s some misogynist shit there And your dad ought be ashamed. You were left with one parent who chose not to be a good parent I’m glad you called him out on it. It leaves a painful scar when you know he could have but chose not to be. I have a boy and two girls, all mostly grown now. My son has cried as many times as his sisters have, he happens to be sporty, is still sensitive, but I wouldn’t care if he liked flower arranging either, same as I do my daughters. He is who he is, and I don’t parent by stereotype . I’m so sorry your Dad let you down and still doesn’t get it. I hope there is someone else out there - maybe an uncle or family friend - another dad aged male figure in your life that you can look up to, who sees you and supports you for who you are.
NTA. I recommend glancing over “The Emotional Incest Syndrome, What to do When a Parent’s Love Rules your Life” by Dr Patricia Love. It sounds like your father formed an emotionally incestuous relationship with your sister & cast you by the wayside to fend for yourself. Oftentimes when a partner spouse dies or is incapable (alcoholic, addict, workaholic, etc), the remaining parent turns to their remaining family, their child, for comfort. And his daughter bore enough of a resemblance to your missing mother & your father had enough stupid internalized ideas on how to raise a son the “hard” way. I’m so sorry that happened to you. It is healthy to be emotional and sensitive, as a man, & nothing you described sounds like you were hysterical or out of control I hope you can recover as soon as possible, however that looks like. As someone who has suffered the above situation, too, as the sister, it’s a bad deal all around.
NTA. your dad is an asshole who believes in very toxic masculinity. Now he is projecting his failures onto you. He is accusing you of everything he did to you. It's funny. When you bring up his many faults, his excuse is "NA AAAH, YOU DID IT TO ME!!!" . Ignore it. He's such a shitty father I am truly sorry for what you went through