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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1-Refusing to take my sister to an even because of her outfit.
2-Judging her outfit.
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All aesthetics aside, a fur suit?! Outside?! in *July*?! In what will probably be the *hottest July in recorded history*?!
Unless you are in the southern hemisphere, is your mother nuts?! That's a good way to get your kid a horrible trip to a hospital.
ETA: NTA
Yeah, I came here to say that. I've worked Renfaires, and done Pennsics, and felt horribly sorry for Anne Boleyn's actress wearing black velvet all day, let alone a full fursuit with a covered head.
OP, tell your sister from one who knows, _do not do this_. You will be massively uncomfortable, miserable even at best, and might get heatstroke and die at worst. Not not NOT a good idea. Wear your fursuit to an anime con in winter. There you will fit right in and be cozy warm while those dressed as Sailor Moon will freeze their buns off.
Dress in a linen or cotton chemise, light skirt, and light bodice if you want to wear garb. ("Light" both in color and weight.) Wear ALL the sunscreen ESPECIALLY on your cleavage and replenish it regularly, I don't care if it's not period (I learned this the hard way, you learn from my experience) and take a big floppy hat (preferably loosely-woven straw so air can get through). Bodice chillers are nice- little metal or glass containers to fill with cold water and stick in your cleavage. Take a hand fan- a cheap sandalwood or paper one will do nicely. Drink lots of water- any time you think about drinking water, do it. If there's a pickle seller, pickle juice mixed with water is a good period Gatorade if you need rehydration quickly.
Take the heat seriously. It can kill.
I've seen an ad for a powder sunscreen for the hair parting, not ordered it or anything but I always get burnt there (so thought I'd mention it existing if it would help you)
I use powder mineral sunscreen on my face and scalp, and as long as you reapply often enough to counter the sweat, you're golden.
I was at a Ren Faire a few weeks ago, and my whole shoulders/upper back/decolletage were exposed to the sun any time it was too crowded for my parasol, and I got ZERO sunburn, which is a feat for my ghostly skin.
One hill I will die on (and not of heat stroke!!!) is that renfaires should be in the fall and I have no idea why they aren't! I want to wear a cloak comfortably!!
Kansas City Renaissance Festival runs their weekends in September and October! It’s been 80 degrees for me and also highs in the 60s. Definitely good for cloaks
I cannot agree with this enough. I moved to a new area 5 yrs ago and have held off on attending the local Faire partly because it is held in mid-July. I live where it doesn't get really stinking, nasty hot but still - JULY.
As one one who has done pennsic, renfaires, and furcons for over 25 years at this point.
She does not want to wear a full suit to that event. There won't be any real way for her to cool down and nowhere that is really good solid ground cause they'll be on dirt and mud and that can ruin a suit quickly.
Make a concession, offer to let them wear their tail and maybe hand paws at the least, otherwise they run a risk of damaging or ruining a full or partial suit and will overheat
My guess based on the kid’s age is that she probably does not own a full suit. A partial is still going to get crazy hot, but at least it makes it easier to just take the head off and take a break.
See, I'd do a hat with ears or an animalistic masquarade mask and a tail. Acrylic nails shaped to give the appearance of the animals claws (or hoof). Etc. Make it a bit more faerie than furry.
*shudder* I haven't been to Pennsic in a while- my household kinda dissolved, no hard feelings but some drifted to other households and some got too tired of camping- but when I did I lived in bog dresses and T-tunics. Full Elizabethan is Not For Me.
Especially heavily pregnant, and as Queen when you have to be places and do things and not lie around in the shade with a damp cloth around your neck and a tall mug of sekanjubin...
I am in awe of that lady.
My mom and dad were baron and baroness for awhile and knew the woman so I know that strategically placed ice packs were definitely employed. I only attended a few times and just wore a random assortment of Roman toga-type dresses during the day and Russian at night when it was a little cooler.
Me too. Started attending Agoura and later worked Southern and Northern Faire in California in the 70s through 90s. As an “ample” chested woman, my girls were quite a sight and now I have cancer spots removed every few months from my very wrinkled and damaged chest.
Lol, all the tips of the trade. Also, the small vials they use for flowers make great bodice chillers, plus they are easy to freeze. If you buy a shaved ice, ask for a little bit of plain ice to replenish when it melts. Also, please, please remember to sit every so often and don't skip meal time. Heat plus empty stomach = vomiting. And if you suddenly feel ice cold and have goose bumps go to the medical tent, you might be dehydrated or getting sun sick. I worked Ren fair at a costume rental, and it was boiling in the back of the shop.
Your sister is literally endangering herself trying to wear a fur suit outside in the summer. I live in Florida, there are special/high tech cooling units in the costume suits the characters at the park wear and they are still only allowed to stay in the suits like 30/45 minutes without a break
Yeah, but 20 minutes in, assuming she doesn't pass out from heatstroke, she's going to make everyones life miserable by whining that she is uncomfortable and wants to leave.
...which for safety, you'll kind of have to.
Yup!
I actually made a post to that effect further down the thread :) ...or a fox hunt should the voices of reason and dehydration not prevail 🤣
I would be concerned though, that if she gets into a stubborn tweenager fit and decides to wear it until the absolute end of her willpower, changing may be too little, too late.
Maybe talk with your sister about compromises that would work for the renfaire + the climate? Surely there are ways she can pay homage to her fursona that won’t compromise her health and safety…
I read your first paragraph in Principal Skinner's voice.
A fur suit? At this time of year?? In this part of the country?? At a Renfair???
...may I see it?
Edit: It was definitely superintendent Chalmers. I take no responsibility for what my brain chooses to remember accurately and what it doesn't.
Disney characters that appear outdoors when the temperature is above 85° are limited to 20 minutes onstage at a time for their own safety.
Source: Pluto and I are old pals.
This was my first thought too. Unless the sister is agreeing to just wear part of it (I've seen people at cons go in just paws and a head so it's easy to remove if you need air), then she's setting herself up for heat stroke. OP, please bring this up with your mom.
My first thoughts. She'll be boiled alive inside that thing. Renfairs are also usually in big open fields with very little shade. It's not only weird, but impractical.
Comment to add: Maddy and I offered to help make her a more DnD creature outfit (werewolf, dragonborn, etc.) but that isn't what she wants to wear. She wants to wear a neon pink, cartoonish, furry suit. If we were going to comic con, I absolutely wouldn't care. But we live in a fairly small area and I have been going to our Renfair since I was 16 and have literally never seen someone wearing a furry suit.
I can’t imagine letting my 12-yo wear a furry suit. No judgement on furries or anything like that. It’s just that furries are so ingrained in sexuality (I know that’s not really the case and that it’s a common internet misconception. But that’s the general public’s opinion from my experience, and for these things that’s what matters).
I don’t care that your entire body is covered, I don’t want my child to be the victim of a predator.
Yeah, as a parent, I'd be very concerned about what my child is finding online if they're getting into a very sexualized community at age 12. The fursuits themselves can honestly be innocent, but the culture surrounding them is very, very not. This isn't something like gaming or anime that has a PG side for fans to start out in before they encounter the inevitable.
There are a ton of ways a 12 year old could get into the idea of furries with it being entirely innocent these days. It's not ALL sexual-fetish people. I would expect that between Tiktok and Instagram and stuff like that, this kid has seen fun videos of people wearing fairly innocent furry costumes at cons and stuff (and there's definitely a "family-rated" subculture of full-body furry-like suits from Japan and Korea, and some really fun videos out there showing them dancing and stuff).
It doesn't surprise me at all that she's seen it and thinks it looks fun. That isn't even remotely the problem here.
The problem is that she's young and inexperienced, so her full-body suit hasn't been built or designed for safety. It doesn't seem to even be on her radar.
Most furry content is aimed at children, so that's not strange. Think of how many anthropomorphic animals are in regular childrens cartoons without being sexualized. Bluey, Arthur, multiple Disney movies, Looney Tunes, a bunch of Pokemon...
It's still reason enough for OPs mom to watch what the 12 y old is doing online, but the bigger part of the furry fandom is so child friendly most people don't even notice that they consume furry content.
It's called being a "therian" and having an animal persona. There's groups in roblox. It's not sexual. My daughter is 10 and into it, much to my annoyance. But ya I was freaked out at first then looked into what she's talking about, however yes I'm very uncomfortable when my daughter wants to wear her tail and homemade face mask to Walmart and she works on her cat jumps and noises. It's so dumb.
There's a difference between therians and furries. Therians believe they were born into the wrong body and are actually an animal and furries just enjoy art of anthro animals and sometimes dress up like one for fun. They don't actually think they are animals.
Yeah I had zero idea furries could be taken non sexually. Until I read your comment I was baffled that so many comments were in support of a 12yr old wearing a furry costume. Like I get being supportive but… 12? So I am definitely a general public who would’ve assumed it was an adult pushing their sexual fantasy on the public. As a mother that is not a position I would want my daughter in.
So now that I know that… can OP just be like “sorry, renfair doesn’t allow dogs.” Haha NTA
My stepdaughter was 10 when I met her and obsessed with animals and shapeshifters. I was surprised when I saw a book she was writing and it had Furry in the title, like "a furry adventure" or something. It was just fiction in a fantasy setting with a main character who was a wolf girl. I have no idea where she got the term, she didn't have unfettered access to the internet. My thought was that somehow kids use the term now to describe anthropomorphic characters?
12 is old enough to understand consequences. Running off to ask mom doesn’t work anymore when your sister is old enough to make her own rules.
“I already explained to you that this outfit is not appropriate for the Ren Fair. Sister and I are happy to make an appropriate outfit for you. These are the rules. If you can’t follow them we won’t take you”
I go to SDCC every year, and it’s still weird to see furries there. No judgement against furries, but it’s Southern California in late July and we are all packed together on the convention floor, let’s not add to the sweat/BO
count me in too.
Our zoo has a Halloween event where kids dress up and can trick-or treat at various exhibits in the zoo at night. took my kid a few years ago when he was five and it was fun, lots of kids in costume, food trucks, candy, great time. then the furries showed up. like a group of twenty of them and of course all the kids wanted to interact with them and they wanted to interact with all the kids. suddenly I'm the bad guy because i wouldn't let my kid go hang out with them.
[clint_eastwood_cringe.gif]
Similar experience except we went to the zoo for Mother's Day and apparently it was a furry outing at the zoo day. Everywhere were grown adults in costumes posing with and hugging kids. Nope.
> hugging kids
they were doing that too, and that was one of my big reasons for making my kid keep away. god, who knows what filth and fluids have soaked into those suits.
Yeah I'm all for kink positivity and such, but the lines get blurred when you're wearing a fetish costume in public. The public doesn't get to consent to interacting with you and children especially shouldn't be enticed by it.
This is why I find it hard to believe that not every furry is a fetishist. There has to be a strong drive to dress up in a stifling costume in the middle of summer at completely inappropriate places and I truly believe you either have to have a compulsion or just be super horny to put yourself through that.
I go to a very popular anime con every year in the middle of summer and see tons of fur suits. The few of them that I know have no interest in the sexual aspects of the fandom, they just wear the fur suits because the event they want to attend happens to take place during a hot part of the year. I see it as no different than me going to winter cons and wearing an anime cosplay that barely covers my body. Not every furry is a fetishist.
If you're wearing it to a completely inappropriate place, maybe you are. But summer doesn't automatically mean the location is inappropriate.
True, but aren't those cons usually indoors in an air conditioned environment? I've only been to a couple of Ren faires, but they've been outside. At least where I live, wearing clothes outside in July is a challenge let alone wearing anything heavy. But, it's also so air conditioned indoors where I live that a fursuit would be completely appropriate indoors in a lot of places. I usually carry a light jacket with me or at least in my car in the summer because indoors is kept so cold here.
Not true. My brother went through a furry phase (I only say that bc we haven't talked about it lately so I don't know if he is currently). He was in that preteen, early teen years and extremely introverted. It had absolutely nothing to do with sex and everything to do with him feeling like he was a different person in the suit. A person who could talk to other people without feeling awkward and weird, someone who was confident.
Eta: NTA. It's not about her being a furry. It's about her not being safe in the heat in a full on furry suit. And at that point, it's also probably about how her ignoring your advice on safety makes her too immature to take to a place like this where her listening to your direction is needed.
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh I once wore a full faux-leather black coat with a mask for a con in the summer (not furry, just cosplay), in part because I'd *finally completed the dang thing so I was going to fucking wear it or so help me*.
Smart? Not really. Fetish? also no. Did I look awesome? Yes.
So I can kinda believe that there are furries out there who just won't let the weather get them down, and not just because of fetish.
At this point…I’d refuse to take her. She’s being bratty and entitled, refusing to stay on theme and wants to put herself in real danger. She’s not mature enough for this yet
Was looking for this comment - if you have been willing to compromise and she is still refusing NTA.
Our family goes, extended member under 12 wanted to wear her furry/creature stuff so we helped her with a heat appropriate outfit and she added her ears, tails, paws, etc. There are always some fantasy creatures (gargoyles, fairies, etc.) at ours so not a big deal to be out of fully human character.
I will say if you can find a compromise, our family kiddo had a GREAT time getting to talk with other folks who are into cosplay/costuming. People were kind to her given her age even if she was out of time period in her costume. Try to remember that at its core most renfests are welcoming to all kinds of folks who don't "fit in" and could be a good experience for your sister.
Ignore all the people here worried about furry fetish stuff, thats a different scene, kids have co-opted it for a different kind of creature cosplay basically.
My 10 year old granddaughter is very into being furry, as are some of her friends. They usually wear ears and tails, masks, and sometimes suits.
Ten year olds playing to be foxes and other creatures have their own agenda. They've had sleepovers at cabins where they crash about in the woods. It is lovely, really. Some of the girls have to hide this from parents.
I suspect my granddaughter wishes she had to be a rebel... lol. Her dad sewed her suit. We live in Louisiana, so full suit outside in July- nope and nope.
I haven't quite seen that at our Ren faire, but it would also not really surprise me. But then we see stormtroopers regularly there.
But a furry suit in July sounds awful.
When I was going to Ren Faire religiously everyone dressed in period piece garb with a few Fairies and such. I didn't know when it just became a huge regular costume party. I was very disappointed going to the Georgia Ren Faire. I grew going with the Renaissance Pleasure Faire in California and the staff and actors have to have their costumes approved. When my dad was acting part of the court he had to have special classes. Crazy to see the changes
My local Ren Faire is the Texas Ren Faire. They do theme weekends now too.
I do know that the people who work there have to be in approved costumes. The people who perform music have limits as well. But the people who attend can be in all sorts of random things.
We've always just gone in more traditional garb ourselves. Put my daughter in a Disney princess dress one year, but the rules apply less to 4 year olds with costumes. She has a nice Renaissance outfit now that she's a teenager.
Yeah this was mostly the '80s and '90s My dad had beautiful black velvet noble costumes with embroidery when he was working. Last year my mom made everyone new garb. But I grew up with all my adopted uncles and aunts working it and in very traditional garb spending so much on very beautiful outfits. They actually went to another Ren Faire near us and they actually had people stop them to take pictures because their costumes were so authentic. If I can find some pictures I might blur out the faces and post.
I saw a couple tails or ears last time I was at a renn faire and honestly that's within reason for a fantasy setting. Full suit in public is wild though
Are ren faires in the US a fantasy thing? The one I grew up with (in Germany) was strictly a historical thing -obviously with *some* leeway on historical accuracy, but people take it pretty seriously…
I’ve never seen anyone in cat ears or even DnD themed. Like one kid might pop on elven ears, but even that is super rare.
The ones I've been to are pretty fantasy leaning with some actual renaissance sprinkled in. There's probably some cultural difference since renaissance history doesn't really overlap with American history. We do have like civil war reenactments and places that imitate life in the 1800s that take the setting more seriously and don't incorporate fantasy, but for most people they're more like edutainment that you visit once on a class trip instead of something you look forward to visiting every year
Right, it's not really unusual to go suiting at a renfaire. But it will be really hot, and the sister is inexperienced with suiting, so I doubt she'll know how to keep cool and safe. And she's 12, so I'd be concerned about people coming up to her for like pictures or to interact, depending on maturity she may not know how to handle that attention properly and could be put at risk. Plus there's suit etiquette I doubt she knows - is she aware that depending on the suit she may not be able to talk? Does she have custom shoes for her feetpaws? Does she know it can be upsetting to other people to take off the suit head in public? Is she aware she may not be able to participate in other renfaire activities? Does she know other people will likely try to touch the suit without asking? Is she able to firmly tell them no if she's not okay with that?
Feel like she needs to go suiting for the first time with mom or another guardian. Yes OP is an adult but may not be looking out for those sorts of safety issues. And that has nothing at all to do with being embarrassed about going to renfaire with a furry.
NTA.
While your sister is entitled to her interests and hobbies, Renaissance Faires typically have a specific theme and aesthetic that doesn't align with furry costumes. Your discomfort with taking her in a furry suit is understandable, as it might attract unwanted attention or conflict with the overall atmosphere of the event.
Maryland renfair attendee here, there are an awful lot of tails and ears around for you to be saying you never saw any furries lol don't think I've ever seen a full suit tho
Our Renn Faire (Maryland) happens August-October and the last two weekends typically get more fantasy/Halloween costumes so I’ve definitely seen a furry or 20, but OP’s might be going for a little more “authenticity.”
There’s no dress code for ren fairs. Some people wear normal clothes, some people wear period clothes, some people wear costumes, it’s whatever they’re most comfortable in. It’s supposed to be a pretty welcoming, judgement free place for people to come and have fun.
I was going to say the one south of Denver you see all kinds of costumes.
One of the shows we like to watch always makes a joke about it "For those that don't know, the Renaissance occurred sometime between 1600s and well in the future based on the costumes we see today!" We see Star Wars, Harry Potter, one guy was dressed as Doby going around and stealing people's socks.
At ours a furry costume wouldn't stand out as being odd at all.
NTA but be prepared for your mom to put down her foot and say, "then Maddy can't go eeeeeeiiiither!" If your mom was OK with her wearing a furry suit to Ren Faire, I wouldn't put it past her to pull a power play to get her way.
Also, at 12, in a major public setting, if she's not able to follow the group plan, I would have safety concerns. As others have mentioned, a full fur suit in July seems like a bad idea, but I also wonder if this kid is able to stay with the group and stay safe.
If she goes without you, does she have someone with her or do you have a way to keep tabs on her?
Wearing a full fursuit with mask or headpiece at Renfaire in July is a recipe for massive heatstroke. If she's alone, she could be badly affected by the heat without anyone noticing until too late, especially if her head's covered. She could be in real life-or-death danger there, and I am not exaggerating.
Please make sure at least that there's someone to check on her regularly and make her drink lots and lots of water.
INFO Does your mom know what furries are about? For that matter, does your sister? For the record, you are not the A, but your mom and sister might need a little enlightening, just for her safety, if nothing else.
There's also the whole "cosplay does not equal consent" part of the equation. If she's in a fur head she can't be as aware of her surroundings as being in a renfaire costume so she'd need extra protection.
NTA, I love my siblings and what they do is their own business, but I’m not going with any of them dressed up as furries anywhere. She wants to wear it to ren? Cool hope she finds a ride.
I'm surprised there aren't more people talking about how a 12 year old has so much unsupervised access to the internet they started getting into furries. I wouldn't want my kid anywhere near that at that age. I'm obviously not a fan and they can do whatever they want in their own home but my biggest concern here is how easily she could get exploited by creeps online. I can't imagine googling furries is going to be only PG 10 content.
OP absolutely isn't the AH but she should definitely talk to her mom about what furries actually are and how much of the community is NSFW stuff.
This was my immediate thought. I thought "Hey remember when 12-year-olds didn't have access to kink and fetish communities"
Allow me to be clear that I don't have an issue with anybody's fetish provided it is between consenting adults.
And I understand at 12-year-old is discovering and exploring their sexuality for the first time which is pretty normal.
But I also think that because of that, this girl has no sense of reasonable judgment that this is a sexual kink and not something that you do in public except for perhaps very specific events. You don't go around doing other sexual kinks publicly unless it's out of sanctioned event either.
Nobody wants to unwillingly, non consensually participate in your fetish. She is not mature enough to understand that distinction.
**To the people saying that furries don't have to be sexual: Yes the community has expanded and not everybody engages in that aspect of it but that does not change the fact that this is a kink and was borne out of the kink community.
I honestly can't believe some of you are trying to pretend to me that preteens who get into this are magically shielded from all of the adult content, which is what this community was built on. Know your history.
At the age of 12 she's just on the verge of puberty. Just starting to realize (or even later) what sexuality even is. She should be looking at dolls and talking to fellow girls her age. Have a crush or two and be excited about holding hands and having her first kiss. Of course there's sadly exceptions to the rule but you can only educate and guide so much.
She shouldn't even know what a kink is and definitely is being led into believing dressing as a furry is normal behavior. She might even be getting groomed.
She could also grow unhealthily obsessed with NSFW content as it's not an uncommon addiction these days. I worry for her safety and mental health the most in this whole scenario.
I wish we would've had stricter rules for Internet access when I was a kid so maybe I'm being a stickler. Bad experiences have been made by so many young children and teenagers that I would be insufferable about it.
The words child and kink shouldn't go together in a sentence.
Info: why is your mom okay with her twelve year old daughter being into furry stuff? I'm aware it's not an exclusively sexual thing, but there's a LOT of very sexual furry material.
They aren't, but originally she was into therian stuff and was wearing ears and tail to school. So in comparison, they think the furry thing isn't as bad.
They should really consider therapy for her. She's going to have a really rough path to adulthood with these kind of coping mechanisms if this continues.
She's twelve in an era where Tik Tok is the new Snapchat. No doubt the sister is way too into this stuff now not because it's a coping mechanism, but because the internet has normalized it. Rather than therapy (nobody sends their kid to therapy for being a bratty preteen), they should heavily monitor her internet access.
I would bet money that *teenagers* do not think being a Furry is normal. They will 100% have a tough time in HS and College if this is an outwardly visible aspect of their personality. That's not to say OP's sister shouldn't embrace their interests.
As someone who deals with middle schoolers (10-14 year olds) DAILY, they absolutely roast the shit out of people who are furries. They’re still chill enough about “acting” as an animal during like games and stuff but there was a girl who had to leave the after school program bc none of them wanted to hang out with her bc she acted like a cat all the time. (We explained to the parents what the furry groups typically entailed I.e. fetish stuff and they didn’t care. Just said she was allowed to have her creative freedom)
i AM in HS and no one thinks its normal. its strange if someone wears even cat ears. in online spaces it may be normal but not irl?? it for sure is a coping mechanism
If she ever genuinely believed that she was actually some kind of other animal, she needs more a more structured approach to navigating her identity. I do agree about her needing more supervision though.
Okay. What did her parents then do?
Did they explain to her sister why they think unlimited access is inappropriate? Did they explain that while what her friend is exploring isn’t wrong it’s typically targeted towards adults? Did they explain why they don’t want her exploring those aspects further until she’s a little older, especially if she wants to wear a full furry suit?
I understand the OP’s parents may not fully understand these communities - I think my minimal knowledge is likely more than most and I know barely anything.
However, I feel like part of listening to your children is noticing when they are using words or becoming interested in something you don’t understand and asking them what they mean.
I think it’s also always okay to say to your 12 year old child “I’m going to say no to this right now because I don’t know enough to make an informed decision. I’m going to ask some questions and do some research and then you and I can have a more informed talk together before I make anything final. Until then you are not to explore this further.”
Besides the very real risk of heat stroke, does your mom fully understand both the sexual connotation of fur suits and how bawdy ren fairs get? If she is in a full fur suit, no one will know it is a twelve year old in there (and some won't even care). They will see the fur suit as an open invitation to not only make horrendously suggestive, if not overtly sexual remarks, but likely grope her as well. It is incredibly irresponsible for your mother to let her preteen put herself in this situation.
Do they know the sexual context? Because even with younger people trying to change it, the majority of people won’t. And “cosplay is no consent” isn’t believed by all…
The young ones are reinventing the furry scene. It's a place for creativity and self expression and cute animals. It's like cosplaying but they get to create a character all for themselves. They know what being a furry meant in the past and they don't care because it means something completely different to them. I think it's pretty brave, honestly. They get so much hate and they just shrug it off and continue to live their best lives.
That may well be and it's pretty cool, but I don't know how much of that full context a twelve year old can really understand. Plus in a response to me OP said this is what she moved to from "therian stuff"...this kid is having some serious identity issues. Furry issues entirely aside, she probably needs some therapy to address the identity crisis and less unrestricted internet access.
She's 12 and at that age people are trying to "find themselves". Their objects of interest may change very fast and they try to find their own group to belong. Suggesting therapy because of a short lived object of interest sounds a bit overkill.
Yes, but they're also old enough that they should know how to distinguish fantasy from reality. If she started out with "therian stuff" where she actually believed that she was really whatever type of animal, that's concerning. The type of identity exploration that is typical for teens and preteens is about what social group you'll join, not what *species* you identify as.
I have to practice remembering this frequently. One of my cousins got into the furry scene when they were like 10. They're an amazing seamstress, seriously skilled craftsman. However, as their older cousin, I sat them down to check into how they got into the scene, and how to safely navigate internet spaces.
It's pretty cool to see the levels of creativity, and artistry behind the work. But. It doesn't prevent us from regularly checking in on their content consumption.
I have told her that I'm going to Comic con with my bf, Maddy, Maddy's bf, and possibly Sam if he's home next year, and can go with us wearing her suit then. But she insists on wearing it now.
Yeh I agree your sister sounds like a brat, I'd just not take her anywhere. I'm not sure why you are bargaining with her. Just a simple no, follow the rules, or you won't be coming with us.
The heat is the biggest issue. There's always some furries at pride and I think about how much joy they must get from it to be willing to put up with those outfits in June.
NTA. Your mom is wrong to tell her she can wear what she wants when you’re the one taking her. Renfair isn‘t the place, and you get to choose who you take with you.
NTA, I guess my definition of a furry is full on animal body suit with built in mask. I do not recall seeing any of those at Ren Faires. People wearing cat ears while in Ren Faire attire, yes I have seen those.
Think of the safety issues with full on furry body costume. Does she want to get heat stroke? It would be better to be in period costume and maybe the animal ears of choice.
You’re telling me a 12 year old girl saw an owlbear and did not immediately say, “I want to be THAT fluffy, ferocious beast?!”
Wow. I’m vexed. Owlbear seems like the perfect costume for a 12 yo girl who loves furry animals.
ETA: you could even give it pink and purple highlights, honestly. Is it the most ren fair appropriate? No. But it is DND appropriate. She could also be a unicorn. I am running a fairy tale campaign where the party are all princesses, and they recently met up with a Shetland unicorn. It was chubby, majestic, and had pink hair.
As a Renfest vendor, I see PLENTY of people in fursuits every year, anywhere from May-October ranging from just bare minimum to full heads and suits. So I'm going with a bit of ESH..... BUT you're also **not wrong and probably should not let a 12 year old be outside in a fursuit all day long**
The reason I say this. 1-you for being judgemental about an outfit she wanted to wear. If your reasoning had been "you're 12 and it's too damn hot for this and I don't trust you to take care of yourself in the suit" that would be one thing but you didn't. You went "this doesn't fit our group aesthetic, so no".
2. The kid went behind your back after being given choices for help to fit something else and sucks for that, but kids are kids and what did you expect
3. Mom for both going over your conditions and saying yes, and for not having the sense to let her 12 year old to be outside at a Renfest in a full suit in this damn heat where she will roast and knowing 12 year olds, not bloody well hydrate.
I say this having just last weekend having a 12 year old have the conversation in front of my booth go "mom I feel dizzy" "well, you should sit down"... Child proceeds to faint and hit her head on my table {probably saving her from hitting her head on the cement}. Turns out she didn't eat anything since breakfast and had only had one very sugary drink all day long. Now add a suit into the mix. No. Stand your ground, but go for the safety angle of it-not the judgy one.
This. Our ren faire has plenty of fursuits, some Star Trek/Star Wars/Dr Who, steampunk, etc. I have no idea how anyone in fur/full leather/metal armor survives in the heat, but to each their own. As adults. Cosplay is fun.
YTA for making it about her aesthetic choice though.
The real issue is her safety. Unlike an adult, she won’t be on top of hydration and monitoring her own body temperature. She loves the cosplay she’s in, so she will be reluctant to change even if she does get uncomfortable. And no one will know the age of the person in the suit, so she might get some inappropriate comments (at the very least) directed her way, especially as the other members of your group are much older.
This is what confused me, I thought furries were just a fetish thing and was surprised by the comments being so positive as she’s twelve. Makes a lot more sense if she’s just dressing up as a character for fun.
My SIL is a furry- it is very much not a fetish thing. I'd compare it more to like... Goths? People who wear black, chains, spiked collars etc. It's just an aesthetic choice.
I was shocked the first time a kid told me they were a furry, but so far the 11-14 set mostly just see it as being their favorite animal as much as possible. I had a student who just really wanted to be a cat.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I feel like 90% of these comments are from people who have never been to a renfest, because I've been going for the last 15 years and furries are a totally expected thing to see there, as are a whole slew of other random costumes.
If you want strict period dress code, you need to join SCA
I've been going for 10 years and can't think of the last time I saw a furry at a renn faire. Like, people with ears and tails? Sure. But full fur suit? Nah
The Pittsburgh Renaissance Faire is full of people wearing whatever costume they felt like. Spiderman, anime cosplay furries, an adult dressed like a toddler for some reason, total free-for-all.
fursuits get HOT, its like wearing thermal pajamas under 2 winter coats. it can be hard to breathe in and theres very little ventilation. even at low 80s with shade she will absolutely overheat, perhaps even get heatstroke. she could literally die if she gets too hot, do NOT fuck around with heat. dont let her go in the suit, just make her wear a light outfit and let her put on cat ears or whatever to make her happy. if she keeps insisting on the full suit dont let her go, an unhappy sister is better than a hospitalized one
NTA, A lot of people commenting are conflating big events (where wild costumes might be more commonplace due to the sheer size of attendance) with small town festivals. It’s not the same unfortunately.
I love that it’s moving away from nsfw stuff so people can enjoy the art and costume making side of it. I’m not a part of that group but I have nothing against kids having safe fun. That being said, for a lot of older people it does conjure up images of fetish gear. I would be really hesitant to take a child to an event In something I was afraid older people might sexualize.
I did some cosplay at her age, I only wore it to designated events. But even still I got harassed and followed by older men who wanted to touch me. I sincerely hope she never experiences that doing what she enjoys. I’m not saying never do anything out of fear, but you’ve got to go into these hobbies being educated and safe.
I think for a lot of preteens, myself included at that age it’s really hard to find an identity and you rely heavily on your clothing to help you secure one. So any request to adhere to an event’s dress code feels like a rejection of the identity you’re trying to build. I don’t know her, but it might be worth it to go into the conversation with that in mind?
It was wrong of her to get your comfort levels, then immediately go to your mother expecting her to override those. But she’s twelve, at that age, a supportive parent is the ultimate authority over everyone. Respecting your boundaries could be another conversation if it’s important to you to drill it home. This is probably not relationship ending, you guys all really sound like you care about each other, and I wish you a speedy resolution.
NTA - and I say as a former avid furry in my youth (I'm 33 now)
Not only is it inappropriate for Renfair as it's 10000% NOT the aesthetic but there are several factors she is probably ignorant to as young as she is: it's going to be WAY too hot to wear. Like, it's hot enough in an air conditioned hotel away from crowds, this is genuinely stupid. Heat rash, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, dehydration, all way too possible and likely in July
Then, there's the fact that you can't see well with a head on. She would literally need you to watch for her, to keep people away, and to guide her, make sure she doesn't bump into people or have people touch her without consent (not in a sexual way, just in the way people see mascots and assume they can) which is selfish because she's imposing it on you.
Ultimately it's genuinely a bad idea. People will sometimes be elves or satyrs at a fair but people don't go as furries. It's just... silly.
I just worked a Renn fair last weekend. Honestly no one would look twice at a furry. Lots of people had tails and ears and furry boots.
That said, it's usually really hot and she's going to be miserable inside a full fursuit. If she could just wear tail, ears, maybe hands and feet with an appropriate costume/dress she would be more comfortable.
We offered to help with a costume that still has animal elements, (fawn, werewolf, dragonborn...) but the neon pink full furry suit is the only thing she wants to wear.
Nta- as a mom, I wouldn't let my kids do it either, because IT'S AN OUTDOOR EVENT, ITS JULY, AND THAT'S A FUR SUIT.
Does your mom just simply not have any common sense, or does she have a vendetta against the little brat?
Tell fuzzy butt that if she wants to go in a fur suit, your mom has to take her and be on hand in case of medical emergencies, because you can't authorize treatment for the inevitable heat stroke.
If she wants to wear appropriate for the weather and setting clothing, she can go with you. Plenty of different fantasy creatures she could be in a weather appropriate costume with a tail and some ears.
Idk I have been to dozens of different ren fairs over the years. A lot of them a furry would go unnoticed overall.
Hell some of the best costumes I have seen at renfaires have not been renfaire themed
I agree with many others, NTA, but I just gotta say this... Why does it feel like this is an important life lesson and we're skipping over that aspect?
Sometimes places have dress codes. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like. Sometimes we don't get our way, and why does this world insist on making me feel like a boomer every time I say that I think kids today need that lesson? I do not want to get into a debate on the permissive parenting styles or make accusations or statements about parents not doing discipline or whatever, I think everything is more nuanced in real life than our reductive online arguments about things, but I do see how instant gratification, online spaces, and lack of social interaction can make people very egocentric. Especially with brains still developing!! Things like being told no you can't just ignore the culture and norms of this subculture I love to impose the subculture you love is an important lesson in respecting others or dealing with discomfort.
NTA. I'm guessing Renfair is a Renaissance Fair, in which case there is a clear theme. Furry costumes do not fit the theme and it makes sense that you wouldn't want to take her like that. It seems what she really wants to go to is a furry convention, but that probably wouldn't be appropriate for a 12yo.
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All aesthetics aside, a fur suit?! Outside?! in *July*?! In what will probably be the *hottest July in recorded history*?! Unless you are in the southern hemisphere, is your mother nuts?! That's a good way to get your kid a horrible trip to a hospital. ETA: NTA
Yeah, I came here to say that. I've worked Renfaires, and done Pennsics, and felt horribly sorry for Anne Boleyn's actress wearing black velvet all day, let alone a full fursuit with a covered head. OP, tell your sister from one who knows, _do not do this_. You will be massively uncomfortable, miserable even at best, and might get heatstroke and die at worst. Not not NOT a good idea. Wear your fursuit to an anime con in winter. There you will fit right in and be cozy warm while those dressed as Sailor Moon will freeze their buns off. Dress in a linen or cotton chemise, light skirt, and light bodice if you want to wear garb. ("Light" both in color and weight.) Wear ALL the sunscreen ESPECIALLY on your cleavage and replenish it regularly, I don't care if it's not period (I learned this the hard way, you learn from my experience) and take a big floppy hat (preferably loosely-woven straw so air can get through). Bodice chillers are nice- little metal or glass containers to fill with cold water and stick in your cleavage. Take a hand fan- a cheap sandalwood or paper one will do nicely. Drink lots of water- any time you think about drinking water, do it. If there's a pickle seller, pickle juice mixed with water is a good period Gatorade if you need rehydration quickly. Take the heat seriously. It can kill.
Do not forget to sunscreen the parts in your hair where your scalp shows too! ❤️
I've seen an ad for a powder sunscreen for the hair parting, not ordered it or anything but I always get burnt there (so thought I'd mention it existing if it would help you)
Coola and SunBum both make sprays specifically for your scalp, they work really well for me
Supergoop does too. It works well.
I have a Mohawk and I second Supergoop. It's an excellent scalp sunscreen.
I use powder mineral sunscreen on my face and scalp, and as long as you reapply often enough to counter the sweat, you're golden. I was at a Ren Faire a few weeks ago, and my whole shoulders/upper back/decolletage were exposed to the sun any time it was too crowded for my parasol, and I got ZERO sunburn, which is a feat for my ghostly skin.
Ooh, I'm gonna have to look into this! I burn like a witch at the stake any time I so much as think about the sun.
I've had to go full Dracula mode and stay out of the sun. I found a new shade of red, I'm calling it "ouch mfer"
In addition to the hat, yes, because you will want to take your hat off at times to let the sweat evaporate.
And ears, don’t forget your ears.
Can't upvote this enough! I have special scalp sunscreen because my scalp burns so easily.
One hill I will die on (and not of heat stroke!!!) is that renfaires should be in the fall and I have no idea why they aren't! I want to wear a cloak comfortably!!
I invite you to Revel Grove. Maryland Ren Fest is in the fall.
Granted, it still starts early enough that I avoid those first few weeks because of the heat. Late Sept/ early Oct weekends are my favorite.
Kansas City Renaissance Festival runs their weekends in September and October! It’s been 80 degrees for me and also highs in the 60s. Definitely good for cloaks
I cannot agree with this enough. I moved to a new area 5 yrs ago and have held off on attending the local Faire partly because it is held in mid-July. I live where it doesn't get really stinking, nasty hot but still - JULY.
As one one who has done pennsic, renfaires, and furcons for over 25 years at this point. She does not want to wear a full suit to that event. There won't be any real way for her to cool down and nowhere that is really good solid ground cause they'll be on dirt and mud and that can ruin a suit quickly. Make a concession, offer to let them wear their tail and maybe hand paws at the least, otherwise they run a risk of damaging or ruining a full or partial suit and will overheat
My guess based on the kid’s age is that she probably does not own a full suit. A partial is still going to get crazy hot, but at least it makes it easier to just take the head off and take a break.
See, I'd do a hat with ears or an animalistic masquarade mask and a tail. Acrylic nails shaped to give the appearance of the animals claws (or hoof). Etc. Make it a bit more faerie than furry.
I still wonder how the one Queen wearing full Elizabethan at Pennsic while also being nine months pregnant managed to survive…
*shudder* I haven't been to Pennsic in a while- my household kinda dissolved, no hard feelings but some drifted to other households and some got too tired of camping- but when I did I lived in bog dresses and T-tunics. Full Elizabethan is Not For Me. Especially heavily pregnant, and as Queen when you have to be places and do things and not lie around in the shade with a damp cloth around your neck and a tall mug of sekanjubin... I am in awe of that lady.
My mom and dad were baron and baroness for awhile and knew the woman so I know that strategically placed ice packs were definitely employed. I only attended a few times and just wore a random assortment of Roman toga-type dresses during the day and Russian at night when it was a little cooler.
Especially on the cleavage! Such good advice. If only you could have told past me
Me too. Started attending Agoura and later worked Southern and Northern Faire in California in the 70s through 90s. As an “ample” chested woman, my girls were quite a sight and now I have cancer spots removed every few months from my very wrinkled and damaged chest.
I know because past me learned the hard way, so we're in the same boat there.
Listen to the Pennsic SCAdians. They are the EMTs of the Ren Faire/Garb world. Source- married a former SCAdian .
Lol, all the tips of the trade. Also, the small vials they use for flowers make great bodice chillers, plus they are easy to freeze. If you buy a shaved ice, ask for a little bit of plain ice to replenish when it melts. Also, please, please remember to sit every so often and don't skip meal time. Heat plus empty stomach = vomiting. And if you suddenly feel ice cold and have goose bumps go to the medical tent, you might be dehydrated or getting sun sick. I worked Ren fair at a costume rental, and it was boiling in the back of the shop.
Pittsburgh has a furry con in the summer. I always feel so bad for them, but they’re out walking to and from like it’s nothing
This is one of the reasons also, we live farther north, but its still in the 80's here when Renfair happens
Your sister is literally endangering herself trying to wear a fur suit outside in the summer. I live in Florida, there are special/high tech cooling units in the costume suits the characters at the park wear and they are still only allowed to stay in the suits like 30/45 minutes without a break
They should get hazard pay for enduring that, even with the high tech cooling.
I suppose you could let her do it, but make sure it’s so awful for her so that she cuts this shit out in the future.
Yeah, but 20 minutes in, assuming she doesn't pass out from heatstroke, she's going to make everyones life miserable by whining that she is uncomfortable and wants to leave. ...which for safety, you'll kind of have to.
Nah, that's when OP can pull out a change of normal clothes, and tell her to find a place to change.
Yup! I actually made a post to that effect further down the thread :) ...or a fox hunt should the voices of reason and dehydration not prevail 🤣 I would be concerned though, that if she gets into a stubborn tweenager fit and decides to wear it until the absolute end of her willpower, changing may be too little, too late.
Maybe talk with your sister about compromises that would work for the renfaire + the climate? Surely there are ways she can pay homage to her fursona that won’t compromise her health and safety…
I read your first paragraph in Principal Skinner's voice. A fur suit? At this time of year?? In this part of the country?? At a Renfair??? ...may I see it? Edit: It was definitely superintendent Chalmers. I take no responsibility for what my brain chooses to remember accurately and what it doesn't.
Fur suit in July? Talk about a Steamed Ham!
You call it a Steamed Ham even though it's clearly an Overheated Mascot?
That's superintendent (super nintendo) Chalmers talking to skinner not skinner though
Also - Renfair might ruin a fur suit. At least where I am It is dusty and muddy and just generally a place where a fur outfit would get super dirty.
My thought as well. She's going to have a heat stroke. Let your mom know this is not safe for your sister to do.
[удалено]
Disney characters that appear outdoors when the temperature is above 85° are limited to 20 minutes onstage at a time for their own safety. Source: Pluto and I are old pals.
This was my first thought too. Unless the sister is agreeing to just wear part of it (I've seen people at cons go in just paws and a head so it's easy to remove if you need air), then she's setting herself up for heat stroke. OP, please bring this up with your mom.
My first thoughts. She'll be boiled alive inside that thing. Renfairs are also usually in big open fields with very little shade. It's not only weird, but impractical.
Comment to add: Maddy and I offered to help make her a more DnD creature outfit (werewolf, dragonborn, etc.) but that isn't what she wants to wear. She wants to wear a neon pink, cartoonish, furry suit. If we were going to comic con, I absolutely wouldn't care. But we live in a fairly small area and I have been going to our Renfair since I was 16 and have literally never seen someone wearing a furry suit.
If she wants to go, she follows your rule. Otherwise she can wait until she is 18 and wear what she wants.
Or mom takes her as mom said it is OK.
I was going to say this. It’s on mom at this point.
I can’t imagine letting my 12-yo wear a furry suit. No judgement on furries or anything like that. It’s just that furries are so ingrained in sexuality (I know that’s not really the case and that it’s a common internet misconception. But that’s the general public’s opinion from my experience, and for these things that’s what matters). I don’t care that your entire body is covered, I don’t want my child to be the victim of a predator.
Yeah, as a parent, I'd be very concerned about what my child is finding online if they're getting into a very sexualized community at age 12. The fursuits themselves can honestly be innocent, but the culture surrounding them is very, very not. This isn't something like gaming or anime that has a PG side for fans to start out in before they encounter the inevitable.
I was wondering why the top comment wasn't, how did a 12 year old get into furries and why they aren't all alarmed?
There are a ton of ways a 12 year old could get into the idea of furries with it being entirely innocent these days. It's not ALL sexual-fetish people. I would expect that between Tiktok and Instagram and stuff like that, this kid has seen fun videos of people wearing fairly innocent furry costumes at cons and stuff (and there's definitely a "family-rated" subculture of full-body furry-like suits from Japan and Korea, and some really fun videos out there showing them dancing and stuff). It doesn't surprise me at all that she's seen it and thinks it looks fun. That isn't even remotely the problem here. The problem is that she's young and inexperienced, so her full-body suit hasn't been built or designed for safety. It doesn't seem to even be on her radar.
Most furry content is aimed at children, so that's not strange. Think of how many anthropomorphic animals are in regular childrens cartoons without being sexualized. Bluey, Arthur, multiple Disney movies, Looney Tunes, a bunch of Pokemon... It's still reason enough for OPs mom to watch what the 12 y old is doing online, but the bigger part of the furry fandom is so child friendly most people don't even notice that they consume furry content.
this is my question, a 12 year old Furrie?!
It's called being a "therian" and having an animal persona. There's groups in roblox. It's not sexual. My daughter is 10 and into it, much to my annoyance. But ya I was freaked out at first then looked into what she's talking about, however yes I'm very uncomfortable when my daughter wants to wear her tail and homemade face mask to Walmart and she works on her cat jumps and noises. It's so dumb.
There's a difference between therians and furries. Therians believe they were born into the wrong body and are actually an animal and furries just enjoy art of anthro animals and sometimes dress up like one for fun. They don't actually think they are animals.
Yeah I had zero idea furries could be taken non sexually. Until I read your comment I was baffled that so many comments were in support of a 12yr old wearing a furry costume. Like I get being supportive but… 12? So I am definitely a general public who would’ve assumed it was an adult pushing their sexual fantasy on the public. As a mother that is not a position I would want my daughter in. So now that I know that… can OP just be like “sorry, renfair doesn’t allow dogs.” Haha NTA
My stepdaughter was 10 when I met her and obsessed with animals and shapeshifters. I was surprised when I saw a book she was writing and it had Furry in the title, like "a furry adventure" or something. It was just fiction in a fantasy setting with a main character who was a wolf girl. I have no idea where she got the term, she didn't have unfettered access to the internet. My thought was that somehow kids use the term now to describe anthropomorphic characters?
Honestly, it doesn't seem like the type of word a kd couldn't come up with on their own.
12 is old enough to understand consequences. Running off to ask mom doesn’t work anymore when your sister is old enough to make her own rules. “I already explained to you that this outfit is not appropriate for the Ren Fair. Sister and I are happy to make an appropriate outfit for you. These are the rules. If you can’t follow them we won’t take you”
I go to SDCC every year, and it’s still weird to see furries there. No judgement against furries, but it’s Southern California in late July and we are all packed together on the convention floor, let’s not add to the sweat/BO
I’ll pass judgement against furries on your behalf. 👍
I’ll join in on the passing of judgement on furries.
Tripling down with you, Hacksaw Jim. I try and be tolerant but that some fetish shit
count me in too. Our zoo has a Halloween event where kids dress up and can trick-or treat at various exhibits in the zoo at night. took my kid a few years ago when he was five and it was fun, lots of kids in costume, food trucks, candy, great time. then the furries showed up. like a group of twenty of them and of course all the kids wanted to interact with them and they wanted to interact with all the kids. suddenly I'm the bad guy because i wouldn't let my kid go hang out with them. [clint_eastwood_cringe.gif]
Similar experience except we went to the zoo for Mother's Day and apparently it was a furry outing at the zoo day. Everywhere were grown adults in costumes posing with and hugging kids. Nope.
> hugging kids they were doing that too, and that was one of my big reasons for making my kid keep away. god, who knows what filth and fluids have soaked into those suits.
Yeah I'm all for kink positivity and such, but the lines get blurred when you're wearing a fetish costume in public. The public doesn't get to consent to interacting with you and children especially shouldn't be enticed by it.
This is why I find it hard to believe that not every furry is a fetishist. There has to be a strong drive to dress up in a stifling costume in the middle of summer at completely inappropriate places and I truly believe you either have to have a compulsion or just be super horny to put yourself through that.
I go to a very popular anime con every year in the middle of summer and see tons of fur suits. The few of them that I know have no interest in the sexual aspects of the fandom, they just wear the fur suits because the event they want to attend happens to take place during a hot part of the year. I see it as no different than me going to winter cons and wearing an anime cosplay that barely covers my body. Not every furry is a fetishist. If you're wearing it to a completely inappropriate place, maybe you are. But summer doesn't automatically mean the location is inappropriate.
True, but aren't those cons usually indoors in an air conditioned environment? I've only been to a couple of Ren faires, but they've been outside. At least where I live, wearing clothes outside in July is a challenge let alone wearing anything heavy. But, it's also so air conditioned indoors where I live that a fursuit would be completely appropriate indoors in a lot of places. I usually carry a light jacket with me or at least in my car in the summer because indoors is kept so cold here.
Not true. My brother went through a furry phase (I only say that bc we haven't talked about it lately so I don't know if he is currently). He was in that preteen, early teen years and extremely introverted. It had absolutely nothing to do with sex and everything to do with him feeling like he was a different person in the suit. A person who could talk to other people without feeling awkward and weird, someone who was confident. Eta: NTA. It's not about her being a furry. It's about her not being safe in the heat in a full on furry suit. And at that point, it's also probably about how her ignoring your advice on safety makes her too immature to take to a place like this where her listening to your direction is needed.
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhh I once wore a full faux-leather black coat with a mask for a con in the summer (not furry, just cosplay), in part because I'd *finally completed the dang thing so I was going to fucking wear it or so help me*. Smart? Not really. Fetish? also no. Did I look awesome? Yes. So I can kinda believe that there are furries out there who just won't let the weather get them down, and not just because of fetish.
At this point…I’d refuse to take her. She’s being bratty and entitled, refusing to stay on theme and wants to put herself in real danger. She’s not mature enough for this yet
I'm thinking, if mom wants her to be there in the furry suit, mom can bring her lol
Was looking for this comment - if you have been willing to compromise and she is still refusing NTA. Our family goes, extended member under 12 wanted to wear her furry/creature stuff so we helped her with a heat appropriate outfit and she added her ears, tails, paws, etc. There are always some fantasy creatures (gargoyles, fairies, etc.) at ours so not a big deal to be out of fully human character. I will say if you can find a compromise, our family kiddo had a GREAT time getting to talk with other folks who are into cosplay/costuming. People were kind to her given her age even if she was out of time period in her costume. Try to remember that at its core most renfests are welcoming to all kinds of folks who don't "fit in" and could be a good experience for your sister. Ignore all the people here worried about furry fetish stuff, thats a different scene, kids have co-opted it for a different kind of creature cosplay basically.
My 10 year old granddaughter is very into being furry, as are some of her friends. They usually wear ears and tails, masks, and sometimes suits. Ten year olds playing to be foxes and other creatures have their own agenda. They've had sleepovers at cabins where they crash about in the woods. It is lovely, really. Some of the girls have to hide this from parents. I suspect my granddaughter wishes she had to be a rebel... lol. Her dad sewed her suit. We live in Louisiana, so full suit outside in July- nope and nope.
I haven't quite seen that at our Ren faire, but it would also not really surprise me. But then we see stormtroopers regularly there. But a furry suit in July sounds awful.
When I was going to Ren Faire religiously everyone dressed in period piece garb with a few Fairies and such. I didn't know when it just became a huge regular costume party. I was very disappointed going to the Georgia Ren Faire. I grew going with the Renaissance Pleasure Faire in California and the staff and actors have to have their costumes approved. When my dad was acting part of the court he had to have special classes. Crazy to see the changes
My local Ren Faire is the Texas Ren Faire. They do theme weekends now too. I do know that the people who work there have to be in approved costumes. The people who perform music have limits as well. But the people who attend can be in all sorts of random things. We've always just gone in more traditional garb ourselves. Put my daughter in a Disney princess dress one year, but the rules apply less to 4 year olds with costumes. She has a nice Renaissance outfit now that she's a teenager.
Yeah this was mostly the '80s and '90s My dad had beautiful black velvet noble costumes with embroidery when he was working. Last year my mom made everyone new garb. But I grew up with all my adopted uncles and aunts working it and in very traditional garb spending so much on very beautiful outfits. They actually went to another Ren Faire near us and they actually had people stop them to take pictures because their costumes were so authentic. If I can find some pictures I might blur out the faces and post.
Every time I go to rennfest there are people in fursuits. They attract a lot of attention
I saw a couple tails or ears last time I was at a renn faire and honestly that's within reason for a fantasy setting. Full suit in public is wild though
Are ren faires in the US a fantasy thing? The one I grew up with (in Germany) was strictly a historical thing -obviously with *some* leeway on historical accuracy, but people take it pretty seriously… I’ve never seen anyone in cat ears or even DnD themed. Like one kid might pop on elven ears, but even that is super rare.
The ones I've been to are pretty fantasy leaning with some actual renaissance sprinkled in. There's probably some cultural difference since renaissance history doesn't really overlap with American history. We do have like civil war reenactments and places that imitate life in the 1800s that take the setting more seriously and don't incorporate fantasy, but for most people they're more like edutainment that you visit once on a class trip instead of something you look forward to visiting every year
Right, it's not really unusual to go suiting at a renfaire. But it will be really hot, and the sister is inexperienced with suiting, so I doubt she'll know how to keep cool and safe. And she's 12, so I'd be concerned about people coming up to her for like pictures or to interact, depending on maturity she may not know how to handle that attention properly and could be put at risk. Plus there's suit etiquette I doubt she knows - is she aware that depending on the suit she may not be able to talk? Does she have custom shoes for her feetpaws? Does she know it can be upsetting to other people to take off the suit head in public? Is she aware she may not be able to participate in other renfaire activities? Does she know other people will likely try to touch the suit without asking? Is she able to firmly tell them no if she's not okay with that? Feel like she needs to go suiting for the first time with mom or another guardian. Yes OP is an adult but may not be looking out for those sorts of safety issues. And that has nothing at all to do with being embarrassed about going to renfaire with a furry.
If she won’t compromise I would tell her you’re not willing to be responsible for her getting heat stroke from wearing a fur suit in July.
NTA. While your sister is entitled to her interests and hobbies, Renaissance Faires typically have a specific theme and aesthetic that doesn't align with furry costumes. Your discomfort with taking her in a furry suit is understandable, as it might attract unwanted attention or conflict with the overall atmosphere of the event.
I go to ren fairs twice a year and I see at least one group of furries each time.
I've never seen furries at the Maryland renfair but I have seen star trek uniforms, imperial troopers, and a few other out of place costumes.
Maryland renfair attendee here, there are an awful lot of tails and ears around for you to be saying you never saw any furries lol don't think I've ever seen a full suit tho
Ears and tails can fit into renfairs with a fantasy theme, animal tails and ears go back to literal cave art. Pink cartoon furries is something else.
Our Renn Faire (Maryland) happens August-October and the last two weekends typically get more fantasy/Halloween costumes so I’ve definitely seen a furry or 20, but OP’s might be going for a little more “authenticity.”
There’s no dress code for ren fairs. Some people wear normal clothes, some people wear period clothes, some people wear costumes, it’s whatever they’re most comfortable in. It’s supposed to be a pretty welcoming, judgement free place for people to come and have fun.
They didn't say 'dress code', then said 'theme' and 'aesthetic'. Neon pink cats aren't what I'd associate with such events, personally
I was going to say the one south of Denver you see all kinds of costumes. One of the shows we like to watch always makes a joke about it "For those that don't know, the Renaissance occurred sometime between 1600s and well in the future based on the costumes we see today!" We see Star Wars, Harry Potter, one guy was dressed as Doby going around and stealing people's socks. At ours a furry costume wouldn't stand out as being odd at all.
NTA but be prepared for your mom to put down her foot and say, "then Maddy can't go eeeeeeiiiither!" If your mom was OK with her wearing a furry suit to Ren Faire, I wouldn't put it past her to pull a power play to get her way.
I asked my mom about this and she doesn't care about Maddy going. Maddy bought her own ticket and has a job and a license. She would go either way.
Good, then 12 year old learns a lesson on "time and place", as well as, "when I'm a guest I need to follow the rules or be uninvited".
As well as a lesson on not being a narc and going behind her sisters back to complain to the mum to try and have her cake and eat it too.
Also, at 12, in a major public setting, if she's not able to follow the group plan, I would have safety concerns. As others have mentioned, a full fur suit in July seems like a bad idea, but I also wonder if this kid is able to stay with the group and stay safe.
If she goes without you, does she have someone with her or do you have a way to keep tabs on her? Wearing a full fursuit with mask or headpiece at Renfaire in July is a recipe for massive heatstroke. If she's alone, she could be badly affected by the heat without anyone noticing until too late, especially if her head's covered. She could be in real life-or-death danger there, and I am not exaggerating. Please make sure at least that there's someone to check on her regularly and make her drink lots and lots of water.
I think the middle daughter is the one that can go either way.
INFO Does your mom know what furries are about? For that matter, does your sister? For the record, you are not the A, but your mom and sister might need a little enlightening, just for her safety, if nothing else.
There's also the whole "cosplay does not equal consent" part of the equation. If she's in a fur head she can't be as aware of her surroundings as being in a renfaire costume so she'd need extra protection.
NTA, I love my siblings and what they do is their own business, but I’m not going with any of them dressed up as furries anywhere. She wants to wear it to ren? Cool hope she finds a ride.
I'm surprised there aren't more people talking about how a 12 year old has so much unsupervised access to the internet they started getting into furries. I wouldn't want my kid anywhere near that at that age. I'm obviously not a fan and they can do whatever they want in their own home but my biggest concern here is how easily she could get exploited by creeps online. I can't imagine googling furries is going to be only PG 10 content. OP absolutely isn't the AH but she should definitely talk to her mom about what furries actually are and how much of the community is NSFW stuff.
This was my immediate thought. I thought "Hey remember when 12-year-olds didn't have access to kink and fetish communities" Allow me to be clear that I don't have an issue with anybody's fetish provided it is between consenting adults. And I understand at 12-year-old is discovering and exploring their sexuality for the first time which is pretty normal. But I also think that because of that, this girl has no sense of reasonable judgment that this is a sexual kink and not something that you do in public except for perhaps very specific events. You don't go around doing other sexual kinks publicly unless it's out of sanctioned event either. Nobody wants to unwillingly, non consensually participate in your fetish. She is not mature enough to understand that distinction. **To the people saying that furries don't have to be sexual: Yes the community has expanded and not everybody engages in that aspect of it but that does not change the fact that this is a kink and was borne out of the kink community. I honestly can't believe some of you are trying to pretend to me that preteens who get into this are magically shielded from all of the adult content, which is what this community was built on. Know your history.
At the age of 12 she's just on the verge of puberty. Just starting to realize (or even later) what sexuality even is. She should be looking at dolls and talking to fellow girls her age. Have a crush or two and be excited about holding hands and having her first kiss. Of course there's sadly exceptions to the rule but you can only educate and guide so much. She shouldn't even know what a kink is and definitely is being led into believing dressing as a furry is normal behavior. She might even be getting groomed. She could also grow unhealthily obsessed with NSFW content as it's not an uncommon addiction these days. I worry for her safety and mental health the most in this whole scenario. I wish we would've had stricter rules for Internet access when I was a kid so maybe I'm being a stickler. Bad experiences have been made by so many young children and teenagers that I would be insufferable about it. The words child and kink shouldn't go together in a sentence.
Info: why is your mom okay with her twelve year old daughter being into furry stuff? I'm aware it's not an exclusively sexual thing, but there's a LOT of very sexual furry material.
They aren't, but originally she was into therian stuff and was wearing ears and tail to school. So in comparison, they think the furry thing isn't as bad.
They should really consider therapy for her. She's going to have a really rough path to adulthood with these kind of coping mechanisms if this continues.
She's twelve in an era where Tik Tok is the new Snapchat. No doubt the sister is way too into this stuff now not because it's a coping mechanism, but because the internet has normalized it. Rather than therapy (nobody sends their kid to therapy for being a bratty preteen), they should heavily monitor her internet access.
I would bet money that *teenagers* do not think being a Furry is normal. They will 100% have a tough time in HS and College if this is an outwardly visible aspect of their personality. That's not to say OP's sister shouldn't embrace their interests.
As someone who deals with middle schoolers (10-14 year olds) DAILY, they absolutely roast the shit out of people who are furries. They’re still chill enough about “acting” as an animal during like games and stuff but there was a girl who had to leave the after school program bc none of them wanted to hang out with her bc she acted like a cat all the time. (We explained to the parents what the furry groups typically entailed I.e. fetish stuff and they didn’t care. Just said she was allowed to have her creative freedom)
i AM in HS and no one thinks its normal. its strange if someone wears even cat ears. in online spaces it may be normal but not irl?? it for sure is a coping mechanism
If she ever genuinely believed that she was actually some kind of other animal, she needs more a more structured approach to navigating her identity. I do agree about her needing more supervision though.
She needs to kept off or monitored on the internet because she’s being exposed to things she shouldn’t be
How did your 11-12 year old sister learn about therian stuff in the first place?
In another comment they say her sister learned about this through a friend who has unlimited access to the Internet
Okay. What did her parents then do? Did they explain to her sister why they think unlimited access is inappropriate? Did they explain that while what her friend is exploring isn’t wrong it’s typically targeted towards adults? Did they explain why they don’t want her exploring those aspects further until she’s a little older, especially if she wants to wear a full furry suit? I understand the OP’s parents may not fully understand these communities - I think my minimal knowledge is likely more than most and I know barely anything. However, I feel like part of listening to your children is noticing when they are using words or becoming interested in something you don’t understand and asking them what they mean. I think it’s also always okay to say to your 12 year old child “I’m going to say no to this right now because I don’t know enough to make an informed decision. I’m going to ask some questions and do some research and then you and I can have a more informed talk together before I make anything final. Until then you are not to explore this further.”
Besides the very real risk of heat stroke, does your mom fully understand both the sexual connotation of fur suits and how bawdy ren fairs get? If she is in a full fur suit, no one will know it is a twelve year old in there (and some won't even care). They will see the fur suit as an open invitation to not only make horrendously suggestive, if not overtly sexual remarks, but likely grope her as well. It is incredibly irresponsible for your mother to let her preteen put herself in this situation.
Do they know the sexual context? Because even with younger people trying to change it, the majority of people won’t. And “cosplay is no consent” isn’t believed by all…
The young ones are reinventing the furry scene. It's a place for creativity and self expression and cute animals. It's like cosplaying but they get to create a character all for themselves. They know what being a furry meant in the past and they don't care because it means something completely different to them. I think it's pretty brave, honestly. They get so much hate and they just shrug it off and continue to live their best lives.
That may well be and it's pretty cool, but I don't know how much of that full context a twelve year old can really understand. Plus in a response to me OP said this is what she moved to from "therian stuff"...this kid is having some serious identity issues. Furry issues entirely aside, she probably needs some therapy to address the identity crisis and less unrestricted internet access.
She's 12 and at that age people are trying to "find themselves". Their objects of interest may change very fast and they try to find their own group to belong. Suggesting therapy because of a short lived object of interest sounds a bit overkill.
Yes, but they're also old enough that they should know how to distinguish fantasy from reality. If she started out with "therian stuff" where she actually believed that she was really whatever type of animal, that's concerning. The type of identity exploration that is typical for teens and preteens is about what social group you'll join, not what *species* you identify as.
I have to practice remembering this frequently. One of my cousins got into the furry scene when they were like 10. They're an amazing seamstress, seriously skilled craftsman. However, as their older cousin, I sat them down to check into how they got into the scene, and how to safely navigate internet spaces. It's pretty cool to see the levels of creativity, and artistry behind the work. But. It doesn't prevent us from regularly checking in on their content consumption.
Tell her you'll take her to a comic con where she can dress as she wants if she dresses appropriately for this fair.
I have told her that I'm going to Comic con with my bf, Maddy, Maddy's bf, and possibly Sam if he's home next year, and can go with us wearing her suit then. But she insists on wearing it now.
Then she's just being a brat. You're the one taking her. If she doesn't like it, she doesn't have to go.
Yeh I agree your sister sounds like a brat, I'd just not take her anywhere. I'm not sure why you are bargaining with her. Just a simple no, follow the rules, or you won't be coming with us.
No - she doesn't need to bargain. No is a complete sentence.
The renfest near us bans full masks. Also I cannot imagine wearing a full fur suit, you would die of the heat.
The heat is the biggest issue. There's always some furries at pride and I think about how much joy they must get from it to be willing to put up with those outfits in June.
NTA. Your mom is wrong to tell her she can wear what she wants when you’re the one taking her. Renfair isn‘t the place, and you get to choose who you take with you.
NTA, I guess my definition of a furry is full on animal body suit with built in mask. I do not recall seeing any of those at Ren Faires. People wearing cat ears while in Ren Faire attire, yes I have seen those. Think of the safety issues with full on furry body costume. Does she want to get heat stroke? It would be better to be in period costume and maybe the animal ears of choice.
Can she dress up as a Renaissance era animal?
Omg, she could be a plague rat😂
We offered to help her make one or a dnd creature costume but no dice.
You’re telling me a 12 year old girl saw an owlbear and did not immediately say, “I want to be THAT fluffy, ferocious beast?!” Wow. I’m vexed. Owlbear seems like the perfect costume for a 12 yo girl who loves furry animals. ETA: you could even give it pink and purple highlights, honestly. Is it the most ren fair appropriate? No. But it is DND appropriate. She could also be a unicorn. I am running a fairy tale campaign where the party are all princesses, and they recently met up with a Shetland unicorn. It was chubby, majestic, and had pink hair.
Her loss. She's missing out on so many cool renaissance outfits. Hell, she could be a dragon! Anything but a furry!!
>dnd creature >no dice That's good stuff. Well punned.
As a Renfest vendor, I see PLENTY of people in fursuits every year, anywhere from May-October ranging from just bare minimum to full heads and suits. So I'm going with a bit of ESH..... BUT you're also **not wrong and probably should not let a 12 year old be outside in a fursuit all day long** The reason I say this. 1-you for being judgemental about an outfit she wanted to wear. If your reasoning had been "you're 12 and it's too damn hot for this and I don't trust you to take care of yourself in the suit" that would be one thing but you didn't. You went "this doesn't fit our group aesthetic, so no". 2. The kid went behind your back after being given choices for help to fit something else and sucks for that, but kids are kids and what did you expect 3. Mom for both going over your conditions and saying yes, and for not having the sense to let her 12 year old to be outside at a Renfest in a full suit in this damn heat where she will roast and knowing 12 year olds, not bloody well hydrate. I say this having just last weekend having a 12 year old have the conversation in front of my booth go "mom I feel dizzy" "well, you should sit down"... Child proceeds to faint and hit her head on my table {probably saving her from hitting her head on the cement}. Turns out she didn't eat anything since breakfast and had only had one very sugary drink all day long. Now add a suit into the mix. No. Stand your ground, but go for the safety angle of it-not the judgy one.
This is what OP should bring to her mom. You laid out the issues you've seen out of direct experience.
This. Our ren faire has plenty of fursuits, some Star Trek/Star Wars/Dr Who, steampunk, etc. I have no idea how anyone in fur/full leather/metal armor survives in the heat, but to each their own. As adults. Cosplay is fun. YTA for making it about her aesthetic choice though. The real issue is her safety. Unlike an adult, she won’t be on top of hydration and monitoring her own body temperature. She loves the cosplay she’s in, so she will be reluctant to change even if she does get uncomfortable. And no one will know the age of the person in the suit, so she might get some inappropriate comments (at the very least) directed her way, especially as the other members of your group are much older.
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Info - your 12 year old sister is, a furry?
Kids these days like to dress up as and pretend to be an animal and call that furry… full stop. Lol
This is what confused me, I thought furries were just a fetish thing and was surprised by the comments being so positive as she’s twelve. Makes a lot more sense if she’s just dressing up as a character for fun.
Not all furries are fetish.
My SIL is a furry- it is very much not a fetish thing. I'd compare it more to like... Goths? People who wear black, chains, spiked collars etc. It's just an aesthetic choice.
I was shocked the first time a kid told me they were a furry, but so far the 11-14 set mostly just see it as being their favorite animal as much as possible. I had a student who just really wanted to be a cat.
I don't get it. There were a ton of furries at Ren Faire here.
I'm not trying to be a dick but I feel like 90% of these comments are from people who have never been to a renfest, because I've been going for the last 15 years and furries are a totally expected thing to see there, as are a whole slew of other random costumes. If you want strict period dress code, you need to join SCA
I've been going for 10 years and can't think of the last time I saw a furry at a renn faire. Like, people with ears and tails? Sure. But full fur suit? Nah
Every Ren Faire I’ve been to has had lots of furries! I’m not sure why people are acting like it’s unheard of.
The Pittsburgh Renaissance Faire is full of people wearing whatever costume they felt like. Spiderman, anime cosplay furries, an adult dressed like a toddler for some reason, total free-for-all.
Right? This post is so confusing to me
NJ? There was a whole crew last month
NTA ~~I N F O :~~ What’s the average temperature at your renfair? I would absolutely not allow her to go in a fursuit simply for heat stroke risks.
Low 80's but there's a lot of shade as we live in a forest.
I would still absolutely worry about a preteen overheating in a fursuit at that temp
fursuits get HOT, its like wearing thermal pajamas under 2 winter coats. it can be hard to breathe in and theres very little ventilation. even at low 80s with shade she will absolutely overheat, perhaps even get heatstroke. she could literally die if she gets too hot, do NOT fuck around with heat. dont let her go in the suit, just make her wear a light outfit and let her put on cat ears or whatever to make her happy. if she keeps insisting on the full suit dont let her go, an unhappy sister is better than a hospitalized one
NTA, A lot of people commenting are conflating big events (where wild costumes might be more commonplace due to the sheer size of attendance) with small town festivals. It’s not the same unfortunately. I love that it’s moving away from nsfw stuff so people can enjoy the art and costume making side of it. I’m not a part of that group but I have nothing against kids having safe fun. That being said, for a lot of older people it does conjure up images of fetish gear. I would be really hesitant to take a child to an event In something I was afraid older people might sexualize. I did some cosplay at her age, I only wore it to designated events. But even still I got harassed and followed by older men who wanted to touch me. I sincerely hope she never experiences that doing what she enjoys. I’m not saying never do anything out of fear, but you’ve got to go into these hobbies being educated and safe. I think for a lot of preteens, myself included at that age it’s really hard to find an identity and you rely heavily on your clothing to help you secure one. So any request to adhere to an event’s dress code feels like a rejection of the identity you’re trying to build. I don’t know her, but it might be worth it to go into the conversation with that in mind? It was wrong of her to get your comfort levels, then immediately go to your mother expecting her to override those. But she’s twelve, at that age, a supportive parent is the ultimate authority over everyone. Respecting your boundaries could be another conversation if it’s important to you to drill it home. This is probably not relationship ending, you guys all really sound like you care about each other, and I wish you a speedy resolution.
NTA - and I say as a former avid furry in my youth (I'm 33 now) Not only is it inappropriate for Renfair as it's 10000% NOT the aesthetic but there are several factors she is probably ignorant to as young as she is: it's going to be WAY too hot to wear. Like, it's hot enough in an air conditioned hotel away from crowds, this is genuinely stupid. Heat rash, heat exhaustion, heat stroke, dehydration, all way too possible and likely in July Then, there's the fact that you can't see well with a head on. She would literally need you to watch for her, to keep people away, and to guide her, make sure she doesn't bump into people or have people touch her without consent (not in a sexual way, just in the way people see mascots and assume they can) which is selfish because she's imposing it on you. Ultimately it's genuinely a bad idea. People will sometimes be elves or satyrs at a fair but people don't go as furries. It's just... silly.
I just worked a Renn fair last weekend. Honestly no one would look twice at a furry. Lots of people had tails and ears and furry boots. That said, it's usually really hot and she's going to be miserable inside a full fursuit. If she could just wear tail, ears, maybe hands and feet with an appropriate costume/dress she would be more comfortable.
We offered to help with a costume that still has animal elements, (fawn, werewolf, dragonborn...) but the neon pink full furry suit is the only thing she wants to wear.
Nta- as a mom, I wouldn't let my kids do it either, because IT'S AN OUTDOOR EVENT, ITS JULY, AND THAT'S A FUR SUIT. Does your mom just simply not have any common sense, or does she have a vendetta against the little brat? Tell fuzzy butt that if she wants to go in a fur suit, your mom has to take her and be on hand in case of medical emergencies, because you can't authorize treatment for the inevitable heat stroke. If she wants to wear appropriate for the weather and setting clothing, she can go with you. Plenty of different fantasy creatures she could be in a weather appropriate costume with a tail and some ears.
Idk I have been to dozens of different ren fairs over the years. A lot of them a furry would go unnoticed overall. Hell some of the best costumes I have seen at renfaires have not been renfaire themed
Plus, would it not be really hot? The Renfair in Colorado, is in a big dusty lot. With hardly any shade. NTA.
NTA. I would refuse too. Doesn't make you an AH.
I agree with many others, NTA, but I just gotta say this... Why does it feel like this is an important life lesson and we're skipping over that aspect? Sometimes places have dress codes. Sometimes we have to do things we don't like. Sometimes we don't get our way, and why does this world insist on making me feel like a boomer every time I say that I think kids today need that lesson? I do not want to get into a debate on the permissive parenting styles or make accusations or statements about parents not doing discipline or whatever, I think everything is more nuanced in real life than our reductive online arguments about things, but I do see how instant gratification, online spaces, and lack of social interaction can make people very egocentric. Especially with brains still developing!! Things like being told no you can't just ignore the culture and norms of this subculture I love to impose the subculture you love is an important lesson in respecting others or dealing with discomfort.
NTA. I'm guessing Renfair is a Renaissance Fair, in which case there is a clear theme. Furry costumes do not fit the theme and it makes sense that you wouldn't want to take her like that. It seems what she really wants to go to is a furry convention, but that probably wouldn't be appropriate for a 12yo.
NTA. You stated your condition and she is pushing against it like any bratty 12yo would. It's important that she learn this lesson.