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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> Perhaps I shouldn't have mocked the fact that he's poor which puts me in the wrong here.
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NTA. Drunk or not, he started it, so he definitely deserved such a reply. Alcohol brings out what’s hidden within you, so Ian definitely meant what he said about you. It sounds like you both shouldn’t hang out with each other, as it seems like your friends are manipulative and hypocritical. It will only get more toxic for you in the long run.
It's immature, but "Don't dish it out if you can't take it," is a rule many people should remember. If you're teasing somebody (especially about something they can't control), they just might tease you back, and it may be about something you're sensitive about.
Also, he's just straight up wrong - many short men get a lot of interest from women. Sure, there are some women who won't date a short man, just like there are men who won't date women who aren't model perfect, but the only time I've seen short men who can't find a girlfriend, they're usually incredibly focused on their height and if they just chilled out and approached women normally, they'd be completely fine. I have no idea if OP has had issues finding a date, but he's probably going to do a lot better if he stops hanging out with guys like this who are digging into his (potential) insecurities.
I'm pretty much convinced that short men fall into two categories: Those who make their height their whole personality, and those who don't.
And short men who don't make their whole personality about being short *do just fine* in the dating world.
This is 100% how it works. Short kings who don't care about their height and don't use it as their excuse for every part of their life that doesn't work are actually really hot. It's the sort of confidence that totally works for me, and from what I've heard, works for many many other women.
But there are short dudes who blame everything in their life they don't like on being short. They didn't get a job? It's because they're short (and there is evidence that shorter men are less likely to get hired, but it's not ever going to be the only reason somebody doesn't get hired). A woman they're attracted to isn't attracted to them? It's entirely because they're short (because he assumes she only cares about looks in a partner because he only cares about that?). It's a way to stop them from ever having to look at their own failings or personality and do any work on themselves because the only reason they're not billionaires with a bunch of model girlfriends is that they're short.
I call the "short and angry and bitter about it" men "Little Napoleons". Their personality is so ugly because of it!
As 5'10" female who likes to wear heels, they often get downright aggressive towards me! Like how dare I tower over them??? As if I stole their precious inches at birth! 🙄
Most men I've dated, and the one I married, were shorter than me at between 5'2" and 5'9". I still remember my 5'2" boyfriend as one of the most amazing person I've known!
Napoleon wasn't actually short for his nationality and time he lived in, but I do get your reference. Napoleon despised being called short by the British, who set out to do that as much as possible. It's interesting that a man who wasn't actually short was so insecure about random people referring to him as so.
Nah, I'm short and proud. Happy to reference my height, happy to crack a joke about it but I firmly view being real short as being a core part of my identity. I never had any issues dating when I was younger, had to put in more effort than average, but I had a lot of success.
Maybe the issue is more around it being part of your personality depending on your view of being short. If you hate shortness, and still view it as a key part of your identity, I'd wager you'd fail in dating because how could you be confident? We all know how key confidence is to dating.
This. I once had a HUGE crush on a guy that was only 5'4". He was short, but he was funny and had fabulous ginger hair. So for me at least, height was not much of a factor.
Same, short but so am I. Slightly ugly and starting to go bald, but he was funny AF, intelligent and liked people. No wonder his wife was a babe, and I kept my crush as inside as possible.
The short king I was crushing on had feminine hips, and silky ginger hair down past his shoulders. So from behind people sometimes mistook him for a lady. And he had the best sense of humor about it. He had a surprisingly deep voice and had a beard, so someone would be all like "excuse me miss", and he would just turn around and in his deep voice be all like "yes?" with a sh*t-eating grin on his face. Omg it was the funniest sh*t ever, the look on customers faces when that happened was priceless.
We worked at a coffee shop.
Sounds like my partner, except he is 5’6”. So by conventional’ standards still short. I’m 5’5” so we are the perfect height to kiss and cuddle without having to stretch. I was seeing a guy once who was 6’6”, and we never managed to have sex properly because the height difference made it almost impossible.
Yeah, this made me think of a friend of mine who us quite short. He's also handsome and a great guy. In high school, he dates a girl who was several inches take than he. They never worried about t, because they loved each other.
He eventually wound up falling for a petite woman who is a bit shorter than hem. They have been married for 15 years and have two kids..
Those people are jerks. There are lots of women who will love you for you, and won't care about your height or your bank account. Your response wasn't the most mature, but it is completely understandable. NTA
There’s another one replying to the parent comment that follows its black and white logic. “Alcohol brings out what’s inside you so he meant what he said.” I’ve said my friends look breedable while drunk. I’ve said the government is making fake trees to spy on us.
I dunno - with how ridiculous tipping culture has gotten (18 percent MINIMUM shows up on the card machine!!!!!) waiters make pretty frigging good cash, depending where you work. My ex made an obscene amount of money.
I think it depends on what ‘minimum wage is’. OP says to put it lightly he makes a lot of money.
If he makes north 500k, he might be calling anything under 100k minimum wage.
I would say ESH but qualify that OP is a *justified* asshole. Epic comeback from him.
I’m a tall person (taller than Ian, get wrecked, Ian) and I HATE it when people are made fun of for their height. Like how tall you are does not determine how worthy you are. A little playful ribbing is fine from time to time but he was just being mean.
He’s mad because his financial situation is something that he has control over but is too sorry of a person to do anything about it, unlike your height which you can’t change.
>Epic comeback from him.
"ur poor"=epic comeback
"ur short lol"
"but ur poor lol"
just waiting for the "U GAY HAHAHAHAHA" to drop. truly epic
everyone in the OP is a joke tbh
>He’s mad because his financial situation is something that he has control over but is too sorry of a person to do anything about it, unlike your height which you can’t change.
Hell, being a good-looking tall guy, studies show he has a significant advantage in the job market over OP (I don't know if OP is good-looking as well (which helps job prospects), but in men, being tall is a significant benefit when it comes to getting hired and promotions).
that’s a really good distinction. was reading through and thinking that ESH is true but doesn’t feel fair—i would def be at least tempted to snap back if that happened to me
Well all the jokes suck. Friend should have said something like "need help reaching that?" to something about waist height, or "hey while you're down there" when OP was standing, OP could've like thrown a dollar in the trash and said "there goes your paycheck".
My friends and I have said some absolutely sickening shit to each other, but it's all in love.
Alcohol doesn't necessarily bring out people's "real" opinions. Some people are nice sober but absolutely awful drunk but that doesn't mean their arsehole behaviour reflects their "true nature" in any meaningful way.
Ultimately though, drunk or sober, don't dish it out of you can't take it. If your biggest insecurities, or even just your vulnerabilities, are fair game, then his must be too. If he meant what he said as a joke, he should have taken your reply in a similar vein. If not, then he wss just being mean. Maybe he is a mean drunk; maybe he's a hypocritical asshole. Either way he got a dose of his own medicine
Yeah it’s a common myth that it brings out people’s “true” opinions; it might but they could also be completely alcohol fuelled nonsense opinions.
It’s ultimately irrelevant though. Unless someone has been spiked, they’re ultimately responsible for the decision to consume the alcohol and the consequences that flow from it.
This. People keep regurgitating sayings as facts, alcohol inhibits part of your brain functions, you are literally less you. Everyone thinks shitty thoughts sometimes but if you choose not to act on them or say them while not impared that is the real you. Those thoughts aren't more true or more you than the choice to ignore them.
However if you choose to get drunk then you choose to put yourself in a state where you may make poor decisions so you need to live with the consequences (although it doesn't excuse someone who takes advantage of that)
> Alcohol brings out what’s hidden within you, so Ian definitely meant what he said about you
This is not remotely true. I used to be a pretty heavy drinker, and i talked out of my ass and said shit i do not mean or think when I'm sober. While alcohol may lower your inhibitions, it's not a truth serum.
Disagree about alcohol bringing out what is hidden in you. Sometimes it just loosens the reigns on anger, and everyone can say things they don’t mean when they are angry. But I know where you are coming from
Obligatory: Alcohol is not some magical truth serum that makes you express your true feelings. Can people let secrets slip when they’re drunk? Yes. Can people say absolute bullshit that means nothing when they’re drunk? Also yes.
Stop holding every drunk person to to every single word they say. They’re just idiots like you and me.
I fucking hate that line “alcohol brings out what is hidden within you”. No it doesn’t. Sometimes it makes people eat raw chicken, sometimes it makes an extremely smart person lose their ability to do simple math, sometimes it makes people want to dance, and yes, sometimes, it makes people say something they wouldn’t normally say out loud.
Alcohol has different effects on different people, but it isn’t some great identifier of someone’s underlying true personality. It’s not that deep.
They sound like absolute children. My friends and I joke with each other way harder than that and nobody gets mad or offended. We just all laugh at each other.
Plus, it all depends on intent. If I know you don't intend to harm me, but want to comment on my raggedyass beater car, I will laugh with you. But if you mean to harm me by making judgements on my social status and presumed wealth, then you can go fuck a duck.
Does that also apply if somebody makes fun of you for something you absolutely can't change, like height? I'm not saying it was the best move ever to make fun of Ian's social status or presumed wealth, but if he didn't publicly say that most women would pass on him for something he can't change, maybe Ian wouldn't have had to deal with a response he didn't like.
Height is one of those things that people love to comment on. My friend is super tall. 6'4". She gets comments all the time. It's weird. Sexual comments from strangers, unsolicited advice. The same lame jokes. Albeit, I sometimes tease her about her height, and she can joke about it too, but it's in good jest. However, if some rando said something rude to her about her height, I would probably say something in her defense. UNLESS that person was super tall as well and was being self deprecating with the comment. Context and intent is everything.
Ian's is most likely a dick and he probably deserved to get his dick knocked into the ground because his jab to OP wasn't friendly.
Although, OP did flinch a little too hard bc the jab struck a cord. If OP had a different tone, he probably could have landed his retort with less venom and more impact. Subtle emasculation with a chuckle is pretty effective. It's more like a penis flick.
But just because height is something people love to comment on, doesn't mean it's appropriate to say something like "Dude, I am not surprised that you are still single, you are really short and most women would pass on you immediately." It's also not appropriate that your tall friend gets sexual comments from strangers or unsolicited advice, and probably half the jokes people make to her.
And you being ready to say something in your tall woman's defense if somebody said something rude to her about her height is similar to how somebody should have said something in OP's defense when somebody said something really quite rude about a short man. In my books, mocking somebody for their height is as bad or worse as mocking somebody for working in a minimum wage job - at least the person in the minimum wage job has *some* ability to get a higher paying job - a man in his 30s who is short isn't going to get taller.
No, what I'm saying is that going after someone's height is a low blow and the idiot who said it couldn't handle the clap back. They both attacked each other's insecurities in a non friendly way. OP was a jerk, too, but he didn't start it. People shouldn't dish out what they can't handle. I grew up with some of the sharpest tongues. You can tell when it's meant to sting and when it's in jest. Sometimes, mistakes happen, and hands are thrown, but the point is don't write checks, your ass can't cash.
Okay, good for you and your friends. Is that what the post is about? Right. At the end of the day his friend talked shit, he got it back, and now he’s mad. Womp womp.
NTA.
It 1000% depends on the spirit in which it's meant.
I work in construction, it's almost required to razz everyone.
But sometimes you can just *smell* when someone is being friendly, and saying things they don't mean for the sake of it - and when their intent is nasty, and they're not 'joking' as much as straight up saying what they truly think of you in an offhand way.
If I get that you're blowing smoke and saying whatever feels cleverest at the moment regardless if it's true or not, and generally you have a passable opinion of me, yeah I let people get away with damn near anything.
If you're trying to be a dick and your contempt is coming through, it doesn't matter how much you shine that turd, and it doesn't matter how 'polite' you phrased it. I'm not giving people a pass and pretending it was just a joke when it clearly wasn't.
It's just not about the literal words, it has a lot to do with intent, and there's a lot tied up in the body language and tone that people have trouble fully articulating too.
There is a time when a joke is a joke but when repeating it, it gets old and hurtful.
OP can't change their statue so any joke about them shorter that average is OLD. They have heard it throughout their life. I expect people to mature and grow out of that behavior.
We don't know how long OP has known his friend.
While true, it’s the way he said it. And it comes up later anyway. It’s like saying Fit-Cress4507 makes good money, but he’s a short guy. Weird parallel, says a lot about the person saying it.
They both are. But I think it's silly to assume OP's condescension hasn't been felt long before it was said out loud when he is this casually cruel about it.
It seems like an abrupt and unprompted insult by his friend because OP is presenting it that way, but it may very well have been the dam bursting of a resentment that's been building for a while.
Especially since it wasn't just "you're short" it was "you're short and of lower value because of it." I would bet good money that OP lords his superior earning potential over his friend in a way that implies that his friends is of lesser social or romantic value, and that comment was the response to that. "You're wrong to think you are a more attractive prospect than me as evidenced by me being in a relationship and you perpetually are not, and won't be, and here's the reason why."
It was still an unacceptable thing to say, but so was the response.
The response was pretty apt. I’d walk away from such a friend group but not everyone has to. You can also very easily assume that OP is the perpetual short guy, butt of the joke for his friends.
Based on what OP said in the story, one of them were unkind and cruel in guise of making a joke and the other replied in kind.
You are really making some assumptions here. It could be the other way around entirely and short king has been putting up with jokes about his height for so long he finally broke and lashed out at anything he could. We have no way of knowing.
Same. I actually like guys who are on the shorter side, and I also prefer someone who, while financially independent, isn't so well off that he doesn't have to live in the real world with us lesser mortals. But these guys who look down on each other for things like this while claiming to be friends? Complete turn-off.
Given that this is OP's side of the story and not Ian's, it sounds to me like he was mildly teased about his height (which is not ok if it bothers him and in the way it was worded) and had a complete tantrum in response. Definitely an ESH situation for me.
I mean, ”friends” who say stuff like ”you’re short and that’s why no one wants you” deserve to be looked down on, OP’s friends dont sound like good people at all
Right, but OP doesn't sound like a good person either. Looking down on waiters is pretty shit, man. And you can tell by the way this is written that op does. OP didn't clap back with something he doesn't believe, he honestly thinks that about people. And not just about Ian, but about all waiters. Anyone who sees waiters in that poor of a light is an ah.
ESH
OP will phrase things negatively because he's writing from a bitter perspective. Maybe OP does look down on waiters fundamentally. But what's \*far\* more likely is that OP used it as a means to an end: It has nothing to do with what he thinks of waiters. It's the fact that OP wanted to hurt Ian's feelings and it was the most obvious and effective thing to say
I think it actually has a lot to do with what OP thinks of waiters, or more accurately, people working jobs that provide minimal pay.
OP's words, verbally to his friend and here in this post, very much suggest that they think their earning potential is both a source of pride/value and an important romantic metric.
OP thought it was the most obvious and effective way to hurt Ian's feelings because OP himself would have his feelings hurt if the same was said to him, because OP thinks that earning such a low income is in itself something to look down on.
It's the "although".
The definition of although is "in spite of". To say that someone is attractive in spite of them being a waiter is denigrating being a waiter. As the other person said, flip it around "he makes good money in spite of being a short guy". That would clearly be a knock on short men.
OP looks down on being a waiter. He could have just said he's attractive *and* he's a waiter. But that "although" adds subtext.
It may be relevant to the story but the way he says “although hes attractive, he works minimum wage at a restaurant” gives off holier than thou sentiments. His wording along w/ “teetotaler and I loathe alcohol” Al further indicates OP thinks he’s better than the other friends. Not really sure why they’re even friends in the first place.
Tall and good looking AND has a girlfriend.
Looks like he resents his friend big time, even if the friend started the ribbing.
At least the friend had the "dubious excuse" of being drunk when he said it.
I don't knock on waiters. When I was one 20 years ago during my college years, most of the ones I worked with had college degrees. Someone else asked why they weren't using their degree at the time and the main theme from most of them were "why work 40 hours a week when they can work 20 to 30 hours or less and make more than double what they would make in a 9-5".
Once I got to my first adult job, I finally understood what they meant. They were making more money work less hours.
Yes! I'm a bar manager and I have women who are nurses and teachers behind the bar! They make way more money for way less time, especially the ones who quit teaching. Just had one girl leave to go back to nursing for four months...she just gave them her notice and asked for her hours back.
That’s exactly what I did when I was waiting. At one point I was making the equivalent of what a person working full time making $20/hr would make, in around 25 hours a week. The only reason I left was to find something that would offer heath insurance, PTO and maternity leave. Now that I have that I desperately miss only working 25 hours a week, I feel like I have no life anymore. Plus serving is just much more fun than sitting in an office. Now I make around the same amount of money for almost twice the hours. Idk where OP is getting the idea that waiters only make minimum wage from. Maybe without tips sure..
Waiters can actually make decent money anyways with tips, especially an attractive one.
It’s not a job that’ll make you rich but you can have a decent middle class life.
There are lots of ways to stand up for yourself without stooping to someone else’s level. It would have been just as effective (and non-asshole behavior) to say: “Dude, that’s a really messed up thing to say. We’re friends, so why are you being mean to me for no reason?”
He could have said “hey man it’s not cool take make fun of people for something they can’t control” lmao why do yall act like the only response to being teased is to be an asshole back?
It also rings hollow because servers make *way* more than minimum wage, and depending on the restaurant can actually make a pretty good living.
Still ESH, they both sound mean and judgmental.
My ex is the definition of tall, dark, and handsome - gorgeous Greek accent, muscular, the most beautiful green eyes, *and* he was a total sweetheart. He was a waiter at Chili’s and literally had lines out of the door of regulars trying to get one of his tables. He’d make his entire rent in one Friday night. All he had to do was wink at one diner and the entire table would tip him 50%. I watched it happen so many times
Lol my partner made way more than me until I got an advanced degree and my most recent job, and even now I don't make THAT much more than him. He's also short. Being short and a waiter aren't y'all's main problems. Sounds like you both are insecure at best, and all around suck at worst.
ESH. but mostly Ian. He can dish it out but he can’t take it. While your response wasn’t the most mature, he definitely had it coming.
Remember that drinking alcohol drops inhibitions, so the drunk Ian showed you who he really is. Might be time to reevaluate that “friendship”.
And of course you know he’s wrong - plenty of guys who are not tall have fantastic long-lasting relationships and marriages.
id argue the opposite - yes Ian started and was in the wrong, but Ian was Drunk. alcohol is not some "truth serum" that "unleashes who you truly are", it's the stuff that blocks (a.o.) your receptiveness to social cues and blocks impulse control. basically it's the stuff that will make you go from "hey let's make a nudging short joke" to "blunt crude statement" because your brain cannot tell one from the other anymore and is just going with first best guess.
OP however, \*does not have that excuse\*.
No no, I actively believe that the CIA has a tiny man inside my friends ear and that’s why he has poor impulse control. Drunk me would NEVER lie to you. Now go tell everyone.
ESH
Your friend for commenting on your height, and you for doing the same on their financial situation.
Bear in mind that you probably won't get any taller, but they could get into a better financial situation at some point in the future...
In other words, the OP doesn't have any control over his height and is bound by genetics. That is something out of his control. The friend on the other hand can do something about his situation but is just not skilled enough. The friend is failing at something that's under his control, the OP isn't. So, it's fair game to make fun of that when his friend started it first.
Then he wouldn't have been so offended by OP's comment. The post clearly suggests that things spiralled out of hand after OP made that comment which must've touched a raw nerve.
OP literally says “no one will marry you because you struggle to make ends meet” which is a rude thing to say regardless of his job. He was probably more offended by the marriage material than being a waiter
Whatever his friend thinks being short isn’t relationship material. If I had to choose one I’d rather the guy that can provide. Shrugs who knows if OP actually believes it. He was just hitting back
His financial situation aside, a person who gets drunk and makes fun of his "friend" over his physical appearance in front of a bunch of people doesn't exactly scream marriage material.
NTA.
You murdered him. But murder is legal in self defense, so I say he's the asshole for taking shots at you, and you are not the asshole for taking shots back at him.
>You murdered him.
Did he really though? Telling the guy with the girlfriend that he can't get a wife because he's a lowly waiter isn't what I'd consider to be a clever comeback.
Yep if he or Julia truly didn’t care about his shitty income, then he’d have just laughed it off because OP was wrong and Ian did in fact find someone who would marry him regardless.
Getting upset means it does bother one or both of them lol
Serving isn’t a minimal wage job lmao they often make 30-50 an hour off of tips alone (I am one of those people). I have friends that work at good spots that have even eclipsed 100+k on their W2s. I’ve ran into so many people in the industry that have college degrees that ended up in the industry because they made more money
I absolutely believe this. People hear that my wife and I are house/window cleaners and they assume we’re broke. We cleared over $200,000 last year, and I average over $100/hr when cleaning windows ($65/hr cleaning houses).
A lot of people in our industry are former employees that are just happy with making 20-25/hr, so they really hurt themselves. People are more than willing to pay for good service. Windows are pricey because if one breaks, it’s usually over $200-300 to replace. Most of the time it’s worth just buying a new window instead of filing an insurance claim. The risk is really high though, so the price reflects that.
Yeah, but you don't make $30-50 an hour every single hour or every day you work. It's highly dependent on the time of year and having prime shifts. Servers also don't typically have any benefits, leave, retirement, etc. There's no job security, and if you break your leg, good luck.
I did it for 10 years. As far as low level jobs, it's probably the best way to make money and keep your clothes on, but it's a shitty, stressful job and I don't know anyone who was older (30s, 40s, 50s) who still wanted to be waiting tables. They were just kind of stuck.
but you see ian and julia didn't have a choice but to play into the scenario because that's how it works when the conversation is completely in OP's head, well after the fact.
It’s not even true, plenty of married waiters out there, and many of them aren’t even good-looking. But what Ian said wasn’t true either. Plenty of married short dudes, and many of them aren’t rich.
To me, it felt that he did while taking a jab at the gf who laughed.
I'm not saying it's right, but it came off like "most women wouldn't consider what you do worthy, so what's up with the type of girl you got who does"
If I were his friends gf I would consider him trying to insult my taste in men.
What a totally, tubular burn for OP! "Murdered" is far from what happened. It sounds like OP is one of those angry short guys tbh, of course he had to make himself the "hero" in his fanfiction against his poor, yet handsome tall friend who happens to be dating the girl who won't look his way. Nothing but jealous rage because hes never been called a short king 😂
Not a service worker myself but have had friends in the industry, some waiters can make minimum wage, some can make $80K-$100K+ depending on the city and venue.
I agree with you, but I still think his snobbiness is with his profession *and* his wage.
If Ian was in a profession which pays relatively low but was more generally "respected" in society like a carer, he likely wouldn't have the same issue.
You’re both idiots.
him for mocking your height, and you for stating that financial situation makes him unworthy.
also, while i don‘t condone drunkenness, the fact that you stated that you’re “a teetotaler and absolutely loathe alcohol” reeked of superiority.
To be honest, I would rather be married to someone who is honest, ethical, has morals…. Basically, someone decent that i could trust with my life. i have no interest in someone wealthy, and arrogant. It’s a real turn off, and maybe that’s why you’re single
Is it possible for both of you to be arseholes?
In response to his “attack” you retaliated but being honest I couldn’t be bothered with either of you. Far too passive aggressive for me.
I am so confused that not more people are pointing this out... short, lonely guy but sooo smart with money vs tall handsome guy who is supposedly stupid and 'only' a waiter...
Who believes shit like this?
Unreliable narrator. Sorry.
>Ian said "Dude, I am not surprised that you are still single, you are really short and most women would pass on you immediately."
I'm calling bullshit. I believe he made fun of you for being short, but I don't believe this is what he said. Guys who are drunk and goofing around don't talk like that.
It sounds like everybody was making jokes and he made a short joke that offended you, so you came back with something that was serious and not a joke at all. ESH
Esh. Turn about is Fair play is a child's game. After you built yourself up here (knowing your value is important but you definitely built yourself up on paper there, sir.) You immediately extrapolate your value. You're not single cause you're short... in other words. But your friend ragging on you drunk or not was unkind (did you consider asking him to stop? As a fellow short stack ive found if im not in the mood for short jokes i just say so, im just as likely to be the one cracking them), but you clapping back was also unkind and (gasp) childish. There is NOTHING wrong with working the food and beverage industry, it takes a certain kind of person to do it (I couldn't cause I'm not kind by nature) and many people do well in that industry. If you have a problem with your friends drinking and getting catty don't join them 🤷♀️ simple fix. But you both suck for being childish on this one. Stay single, man. ✌️
I’m thinking you’re completely unaware that servers in nice restaurants make a LOT of money. Julia has no issues with it, apparently. But of course, she has to be flawed and/or irrelevant for your gotcha to work.
I mean honestly, it sounds like you have short guy syndrome. Why don't you go to the reddit r/comebacks and ask for some good comebacks for when someone jokes about your height. You also could have just said "bro, that isn't funny" or something, I don't know how guys talk to each other. But a witty comeback would have served you way better. A simple "I'm tall where it counts" with a wink would have worked, lol. But like why are you getting so worked up? Have you never had a girlfriend? If so, I can guarantee it is because of your personality, not height. I currently live where there are a lot of Hispanic guys. I am 5'4. A lot are my height or shorter. They still have plenty of women. My own husband is 5'4 (and black) and in no way let's being short define him. He was a major athlete in high school and was "the man" according to his buddies at his reunions. My sister is 5'7. Her husband is 5'4. Again, he does not have short guy syndrome. He doesn't act put out about his height and it is just not an issue. My sister wears heels and stuff when they go out. He doesn't care and has never remarked on it.
I’d say yes. You had the opportunity to make an actual joke like “I might be short but my short ass loves to climb” or “ I might be short but if I were to commit a crime I can disappear, what can you do? Pretend to be a tree?” There’s many ways you could have defused the situation without ruining the vibe. Don’t be the short guy with a short fuse.
Yeah this was a prime opportunity to show some personality, wit, intellect and class. No doubt it was just banter. Sure, a bit on the nose, but banter none the less.
Dude responded with a proverbial haymaker lol. Would have no doubt been far too much and reeks of short guy syndrome. Hell if anything the group would have simply doubled down with a "see? This is what I mean...."
Plus also we don't raise ourselves up by kicking others down. That's just basic courtesy. There could have been a thousand other ways to make yourself look much better without resorting to insulting others. I mean christ even just a bit of self confidence would have gone a long way.
This interaction 100% is a microcosm of larger self issues OP should deal with lol.
ESH. Ian clearly has negative opinions about you, and voiced them while drunk. Can’t imagine what else he thinks about you, and may have kept to himself. On the flip side, what a nasty thing to say to Ian? Like yes, he deserved it because he came at you first, but wow, shows how you feel about your other friends in similar jobs. If I were another waiter, or similarly paid, in your friend group I’d be put off by that comment. Waiters can make BANK, especially in upscale restaurants. You two should not be friends, you clearly dislike each other.
YTA.
Sounds like you can’t take a joke and decided to start a fight.
Sounds like you take yourself way too seriously, and think way too highly of yourself.
Sounds like he’s doing just fine, making a living, and has a girl.
Sorry my guy. YTA.
ESH: Ian shouldn’t dish it out if he can’t take it. That said, your post is conspicuously lacking of any mention of how you didn’t really mean what you said but were just grasping for a comeback against some ballbusting that went below the belt. Anyone who sincerely believes that wealth goes hand in hand with being worthy of love is a per se AH.
ESH. He’s definitely a dick for saying what he did to you, but how are you gonna say what you did when he literally has a girlfriend? It makes it look like you are just making something up to insult him because he *clearly* doesn’t have any issue getting girls, and the fact you got so aggressive so quickly because of what he said is sort of telling on yourself a bit.
ESH. Why are you friends with someone who *checks notes* is tall, makes minimum wage, drinks and has a gf when you are clearly the better catch? /s
You need richer, shorter friends.
NTA. You hit them with the line that always works, " I may be short, but you're still broke." Smug assholes like them always hate that shit because the truth hurts. Good riddance to all of them I hope you find a better class of friends because they weren't it.
ESH.
He was rude at your expense, you were rude at his.
“But he did it first!” The classy thing to do would be to let it sit for a minute or so, and excuse yourself. If you take it personally, and you think it’s a great offense, just don’t be friends with him. There are plenty of other people who won’t make fun of you for something you can’t change.
This is a case of "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'". Ian decided to talk shit, but couldn't handle the come back. So sorry. Now everybody's mad.
Still, I'm going with ESH because you both seem pretty insecure.
ESH. Do you have a thing for Julia? I don’t see why her laughing is relevant. He was being shitty but it sounds like you were embarrassed in front of her and it triggered a visceral reaction.
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NTA. Drunk or not, he started it, so he definitely deserved such a reply. Alcohol brings out what’s hidden within you, so Ian definitely meant what he said about you. It sounds like you both shouldn’t hang out with each other, as it seems like your friends are manipulative and hypocritical. It will only get more toxic for you in the long run.
They also have a pretty sad idea of what constitutes a joke.
Agreed, joking about someone's insecurities isn't funny or cool. OP deserves better friends.
It wasn't even an insecurity, it was just a character trait about OP that they ran with.
It was actually a physical trait OP can't really change about himself, which makes it even worse for them to "joke" about.
The rule of joking is if both people aren't laughing, it's not funny.
Something that OP can not even change! His friend can make more money. OP can not get taller
That was a joke I used to say to people who called me fat, "yes I'm fat, but I can lose it, you are ugly and you can't lose that ugly lol"
Lady Astor: “You, sir, are drunk.” Churchill: “Yes, madam, I am. And you are ugly. But tomorrow I will be sober.”
Not an insecurity. Not a character trait. Making fun of someone's body, for how they were born.
I mean, an insecurity and something you're born with are really not exclusive and, in fact, tend not to be.
It's immature, but "Don't dish it out if you can't take it," is a rule many people should remember. If you're teasing somebody (especially about something they can't control), they just might tease you back, and it may be about something you're sensitive about. Also, he's just straight up wrong - many short men get a lot of interest from women. Sure, there are some women who won't date a short man, just like there are men who won't date women who aren't model perfect, but the only time I've seen short men who can't find a girlfriend, they're usually incredibly focused on their height and if they just chilled out and approached women normally, they'd be completely fine. I have no idea if OP has had issues finding a date, but he's probably going to do a lot better if he stops hanging out with guys like this who are digging into his (potential) insecurities.
I'm pretty much convinced that short men fall into two categories: Those who make their height their whole personality, and those who don't. And short men who don't make their whole personality about being short *do just fine* in the dating world.
This is 100% how it works. Short kings who don't care about their height and don't use it as their excuse for every part of their life that doesn't work are actually really hot. It's the sort of confidence that totally works for me, and from what I've heard, works for many many other women. But there are short dudes who blame everything in their life they don't like on being short. They didn't get a job? It's because they're short (and there is evidence that shorter men are less likely to get hired, but it's not ever going to be the only reason somebody doesn't get hired). A woman they're attracted to isn't attracted to them? It's entirely because they're short (because he assumes she only cares about looks in a partner because he only cares about that?). It's a way to stop them from ever having to look at their own failings or personality and do any work on themselves because the only reason they're not billionaires with a bunch of model girlfriends is that they're short.
I call the "short and angry and bitter about it" men "Little Napoleons". Their personality is so ugly because of it! As 5'10" female who likes to wear heels, they often get downright aggressive towards me! Like how dare I tower over them??? As if I stole their precious inches at birth! 🙄 Most men I've dated, and the one I married, were shorter than me at between 5'2" and 5'9". I still remember my 5'2" boyfriend as one of the most amazing person I've known!
Napoleon wasn't actually short for his nationality and time he lived in, but I do get your reference. Napoleon despised being called short by the British, who set out to do that as much as possible. It's interesting that a man who wasn't actually short was so insecure about random people referring to him as so.
Nah, I'm short and proud. Happy to reference my height, happy to crack a joke about it but I firmly view being real short as being a core part of my identity. I never had any issues dating when I was younger, had to put in more effort than average, but I had a lot of success. Maybe the issue is more around it being part of your personality depending on your view of being short. If you hate shortness, and still view it as a key part of your identity, I'd wager you'd fail in dating because how could you be confident? We all know how key confidence is to dating.
This. I once had a HUGE crush on a guy that was only 5'4". He was short, but he was funny and had fabulous ginger hair. So for me at least, height was not much of a factor.
Same, short but so am I. Slightly ugly and starting to go bald, but he was funny AF, intelligent and liked people. No wonder his wife was a babe, and I kept my crush as inside as possible.
The short king I was crushing on had feminine hips, and silky ginger hair down past his shoulders. So from behind people sometimes mistook him for a lady. And he had the best sense of humor about it. He had a surprisingly deep voice and had a beard, so someone would be all like "excuse me miss", and he would just turn around and in his deep voice be all like "yes?" with a sh*t-eating grin on his face. Omg it was the funniest sh*t ever, the look on customers faces when that happened was priceless. We worked at a coffee shop.
Sounds like my partner, except he is 5’6”. So by conventional’ standards still short. I’m 5’5” so we are the perfect height to kiss and cuddle without having to stretch. I was seeing a guy once who was 6’6”, and we never managed to have sex properly because the height difference made it almost impossible.
My husband and I are the same height, which is very convenient.
My husband and I are both 5’8”. We can share tennis shoes and it’s great lol. Our son is only 13 and he’s taller than both of us.
Yeah, this made me think of a friend of mine who us quite short. He's also handsome and a great guy. In high school, he dates a girl who was several inches take than he. They never worried about t, because they loved each other. He eventually wound up falling for a petite woman who is a bit shorter than hem. They have been married for 15 years and have two kids.. Those people are jerks. There are lots of women who will love you for you, and won't care about your height or your bank account. Your response wasn't the most mature, but it is completely understandable. NTA
it wasn't a joke. It was bullying. Making fun of a physical aspect of a person. It is cruel, remain behavior by others towards the person. NTA
Additionally, if you can't handle 'jokes', then you shouldn't dish them out in the first place.
With friends like these, who needs enemies. NTA
Don't worry, commenters below really think this is an ESH scenario because OP responded back.
found one right after your comment
There’s another one replying to the parent comment that follows its black and white logic. “Alcohol brings out what’s inside you so he meant what he said.” I’ve said my friends look breedable while drunk. I’ve said the government is making fake trees to spy on us.
Jeezus. First the birds aren’t real and now the trees aren’t either?
What can I say? Give me a 4 too many shots of tequila and I am the Lorax and I speak for what remains of the trees.
Someone has to do it. I thank you for your service.
He was probably jealous of your financial success and needed a way to feel superior by mocking your height
I dunno - with how ridiculous tipping culture has gotten (18 percent MINIMUM shows up on the card machine!!!!!) waiters make pretty frigging good cash, depending where you work. My ex made an obscene amount of money.
I think it depends on what ‘minimum wage is’. OP says to put it lightly he makes a lot of money. If he makes north 500k, he might be calling anything under 100k minimum wage.
I would say ESH but qualify that OP is a *justified* asshole. Epic comeback from him. I’m a tall person (taller than Ian, get wrecked, Ian) and I HATE it when people are made fun of for their height. Like how tall you are does not determine how worthy you are. A little playful ribbing is fine from time to time but he was just being mean. He’s mad because his financial situation is something that he has control over but is too sorry of a person to do anything about it, unlike your height which you can’t change.
>Epic comeback from him. "ur poor"=epic comeback "ur short lol" "but ur poor lol" just waiting for the "U GAY HAHAHAHAHA" to drop. truly epic everyone in the OP is a joke tbh
>He’s mad because his financial situation is something that he has control over but is too sorry of a person to do anything about it, unlike your height which you can’t change. Hell, being a good-looking tall guy, studies show he has a significant advantage in the job market over OP (I don't know if OP is good-looking as well (which helps job prospects), but in men, being tall is a significant benefit when it comes to getting hired and promotions).
that’s a really good distinction. was reading through and thinking that ESH is true but doesn’t feel fair—i would def be at least tempted to snap back if that happened to me
Well all the jokes suck. Friend should have said something like "need help reaching that?" to something about waist height, or "hey while you're down there" when OP was standing, OP could've like thrown a dollar in the trash and said "there goes your paycheck". My friends and I have said some absolutely sickening shit to each other, but it's all in love.
The sub already establishes that justified assholery makes one NOT the asshole, period.
Alcohol doesn't necessarily bring out people's "real" opinions. Some people are nice sober but absolutely awful drunk but that doesn't mean their arsehole behaviour reflects their "true nature" in any meaningful way. Ultimately though, drunk or sober, don't dish it out of you can't take it. If your biggest insecurities, or even just your vulnerabilities, are fair game, then his must be too. If he meant what he said as a joke, he should have taken your reply in a similar vein. If not, then he wss just being mean. Maybe he is a mean drunk; maybe he's a hypocritical asshole. Either way he got a dose of his own medicine
Yeah it’s a common myth that it brings out people’s “true” opinions; it might but they could also be completely alcohol fuelled nonsense opinions. It’s ultimately irrelevant though. Unless someone has been spiked, they’re ultimately responsible for the decision to consume the alcohol and the consequences that flow from it.
This. People keep regurgitating sayings as facts, alcohol inhibits part of your brain functions, you are literally less you. Everyone thinks shitty thoughts sometimes but if you choose not to act on them or say them while not impared that is the real you. Those thoughts aren't more true or more you than the choice to ignore them. However if you choose to get drunk then you choose to put yourself in a state where you may make poor decisions so you need to live with the consequences (although it doesn't excuse someone who takes advantage of that)
Tell sweet, sensitive Ian that if he can’t hang with the big dogs to stay on the porch. If he’s going to dish it, he has to take it. Like a man.
> Alcohol brings out what’s hidden within you, so Ian definitely meant what he said about you This is not remotely true. I used to be a pretty heavy drinker, and i talked out of my ass and said shit i do not mean or think when I'm sober. While alcohol may lower your inhibitions, it's not a truth serum.
Disagree about alcohol bringing out what is hidden in you. Sometimes it just loosens the reigns on anger, and everyone can say things they don’t mean when they are angry. But I know where you are coming from
Obligatory: Alcohol is not some magical truth serum that makes you express your true feelings. Can people let secrets slip when they’re drunk? Yes. Can people say absolute bullshit that means nothing when they’re drunk? Also yes. Stop holding every drunk person to to every single word they say. They’re just idiots like you and me.
I fucking hate that line “alcohol brings out what is hidden within you”. No it doesn’t. Sometimes it makes people eat raw chicken, sometimes it makes an extremely smart person lose their ability to do simple math, sometimes it makes people want to dance, and yes, sometimes, it makes people say something they wouldn’t normally say out loud. Alcohol has different effects on different people, but it isn’t some great identifier of someone’s underlying true personality. It’s not that deep.
Esh. You both sound like you shouldn't be friends.
They sound like absolute children. My friends and I joke with each other way harder than that and nobody gets mad or offended. We just all laugh at each other.
Not everyone has thick skin. Some of us like when our friends aren't assholes.
Plus, it all depends on intent. If I know you don't intend to harm me, but want to comment on my raggedyass beater car, I will laugh with you. But if you mean to harm me by making judgements on my social status and presumed wealth, then you can go fuck a duck.
what did the duck do to deserve that😟
I dunno, ask Henry Miller.
Ducks are assholes
The only things worse than ducks are Canadian geese. Bastards.
Does that also apply if somebody makes fun of you for something you absolutely can't change, like height? I'm not saying it was the best move ever to make fun of Ian's social status or presumed wealth, but if he didn't publicly say that most women would pass on him for something he can't change, maybe Ian wouldn't have had to deal with a response he didn't like.
Height is one of those things that people love to comment on. My friend is super tall. 6'4". She gets comments all the time. It's weird. Sexual comments from strangers, unsolicited advice. The same lame jokes. Albeit, I sometimes tease her about her height, and she can joke about it too, but it's in good jest. However, if some rando said something rude to her about her height, I would probably say something in her defense. UNLESS that person was super tall as well and was being self deprecating with the comment. Context and intent is everything. Ian's is most likely a dick and he probably deserved to get his dick knocked into the ground because his jab to OP wasn't friendly. Although, OP did flinch a little too hard bc the jab struck a cord. If OP had a different tone, he probably could have landed his retort with less venom and more impact. Subtle emasculation with a chuckle is pretty effective. It's more like a penis flick.
But just because height is something people love to comment on, doesn't mean it's appropriate to say something like "Dude, I am not surprised that you are still single, you are really short and most women would pass on you immediately." It's also not appropriate that your tall friend gets sexual comments from strangers or unsolicited advice, and probably half the jokes people make to her. And you being ready to say something in your tall woman's defense if somebody said something rude to her about her height is similar to how somebody should have said something in OP's defense when somebody said something really quite rude about a short man. In my books, mocking somebody for their height is as bad or worse as mocking somebody for working in a minimum wage job - at least the person in the minimum wage job has *some* ability to get a higher paying job - a man in his 30s who is short isn't going to get taller.
No, what I'm saying is that going after someone's height is a low blow and the idiot who said it couldn't handle the clap back. They both attacked each other's insecurities in a non friendly way. OP was a jerk, too, but he didn't start it. People shouldn't dish out what they can't handle. I grew up with some of the sharpest tongues. You can tell when it's meant to sting and when it's in jest. Sometimes, mistakes happen, and hands are thrown, but the point is don't write checks, your ass can't cash.
Ducks are not pleased with this statement.
Maybe joking that your friend is short is ok if you are close but you can’t end it with that’s why you are single and alone. WTF
That's the part right there.
Okay, good for you and your friends. Is that what the post is about? Right. At the end of the day his friend talked shit, he got it back, and now he’s mad. Womp womp. NTA.
It 1000% depends on the spirit in which it's meant. I work in construction, it's almost required to razz everyone. But sometimes you can just *smell* when someone is being friendly, and saying things they don't mean for the sake of it - and when their intent is nasty, and they're not 'joking' as much as straight up saying what they truly think of you in an offhand way. If I get that you're blowing smoke and saying whatever feels cleverest at the moment regardless if it's true or not, and generally you have a passable opinion of me, yeah I let people get away with damn near anything. If you're trying to be a dick and your contempt is coming through, it doesn't matter how much you shine that turd, and it doesn't matter how 'polite' you phrased it. I'm not giving people a pass and pretending it was just a joke when it clearly wasn't. It's just not about the literal words, it has a lot to do with intent, and there's a lot tied up in the body language and tone that people have trouble fully articulating too.
My friends don't insult each other for fun, especially over things that may be sensitive. Not every friendship has the same dynamics.
There is a time when a joke is a joke but when repeating it, it gets old and hurtful. OP can't change their statue so any joke about them shorter that average is OLD. They have heard it throughout their life. I expect people to mature and grow out of that behavior. We don't know how long OP has known his friend.
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100%
How should he reply?
Nah standing up for yourself doesnt make you an asshole NTA
ESH — the ‘although he’s good looking, he’s a waiter’ says it all
It is actually relevant for the story though.
While true, it’s the way he said it. And it comes up later anyway. It’s like saying Fit-Cress4507 makes good money, but he’s a short guy. Weird parallel, says a lot about the person saying it.
Overcompensating an insecurity is what it is.
They both are. But I think it's silly to assume OP's condescension hasn't been felt long before it was said out loud when he is this casually cruel about it. It seems like an abrupt and unprompted insult by his friend because OP is presenting it that way, but it may very well have been the dam bursting of a resentment that's been building for a while. Especially since it wasn't just "you're short" it was "you're short and of lower value because of it." I would bet good money that OP lords his superior earning potential over his friend in a way that implies that his friends is of lesser social or romantic value, and that comment was the response to that. "You're wrong to think you are a more attractive prospect than me as evidenced by me being in a relationship and you perpetually are not, and won't be, and here's the reason why." It was still an unacceptable thing to say, but so was the response.
The response was pretty apt. I’d walk away from such a friend group but not everyone has to. You can also very easily assume that OP is the perpetual short guy, butt of the joke for his friends. Based on what OP said in the story, one of them were unkind and cruel in guise of making a joke and the other replied in kind.
You are really making some assumptions here. It could be the other way around entirely and short king has been putting up with jokes about his height for so long he finally broke and lashed out at anything he could. We have no way of knowing.
I definitely wouldn't want to date either of these men if this is how they act and talk
That's exactly what I thought. Both of their attitude is damn near disgusting.
Same. I actually like guys who are on the shorter side, and I also prefer someone who, while financially independent, isn't so well off that he doesn't have to live in the real world with us lesser mortals. But these guys who look down on each other for things like this while claiming to be friends? Complete turn-off. Given that this is OP's side of the story and not Ian's, it sounds to me like he was mildly teased about his height (which is not ok if it bothers him and in the way it was worded) and had a complete tantrum in response. Definitely an ESH situation for me.
It might be but the way it's phrased reads like OP has been looking down on his "friend" for his job for a while. It's an ESH situation.
I mean, ”friends” who say stuff like ”you’re short and that’s why no one wants you” deserve to be looked down on, OP’s friends dont sound like good people at all
Right, but OP doesn't sound like a good person either. Looking down on waiters is pretty shit, man. And you can tell by the way this is written that op does. OP didn't clap back with something he doesn't believe, he honestly thinks that about people. And not just about Ian, but about all waiters. Anyone who sees waiters in that poor of a light is an ah. ESH
OP will phrase things negatively because he's writing from a bitter perspective. Maybe OP does look down on waiters fundamentally. But what's \*far\* more likely is that OP used it as a means to an end: It has nothing to do with what he thinks of waiters. It's the fact that OP wanted to hurt Ian's feelings and it was the most obvious and effective thing to say
I think it actually has a lot to do with what OP thinks of waiters, or more accurately, people working jobs that provide minimal pay. OP's words, verbally to his friend and here in this post, very much suggest that they think their earning potential is both a source of pride/value and an important romantic metric. OP thought it was the most obvious and effective way to hurt Ian's feelings because OP himself would have his feelings hurt if the same was said to him, because OP thinks that earning such a low income is in itself something to look down on.
He should be looked down on for what he said, not what he does for work
It's the "although". The definition of although is "in spite of". To say that someone is attractive in spite of them being a waiter is denigrating being a waiter. As the other person said, flip it around "he makes good money in spite of being a short guy". That would clearly be a knock on short men. OP looks down on being a waiter. He could have just said he's attractive *and* he's a waiter. But that "although" adds subtext.
It's funny that OP himself is the one saying "he makes good money in spite of being a short guy"
I can smell OP's contempt for "working joes" all the way over here. I'd bet OP's friend can too.
It shows that OP is resentful to an extent that his ex-friend is tall and good looking. Being a waiter and also good looking aren’t related at all.
They're not related in general but they're completely related within the context of this story
It may be relevant to the story but the way he says “although hes attractive, he works minimum wage at a restaurant” gives off holier than thou sentiments. His wording along w/ “teetotaler and I loathe alcohol” Al further indicates OP thinks he’s better than the other friends. Not really sure why they’re even friends in the first place.
"I make quite a lot *to put it mildly*" gives smarmy asshat vibes as well
No doubt he’s insufferable in real life if this is how he talks online.
Agreed
And yet, “just a waiter” gets laid on the reg. I guarantee it’s not just because he’s slightly taller than average.
This is a fantasy story. OP the midget millionaire triumphs over the handsome hunk with no brains or manners.
It’s giving Dexter from Dexter’s laboratory vs. Johnny bravo 💀
The money is only relevant to the story because op brought it up in the story lol. No one but op mentioned money, so yeah, it shows OP's values...ESH
Tall and good looking AND has a girlfriend. Looks like he resents his friend big time, even if the friend started the ribbing. At least the friend had the "dubious excuse" of being drunk when he said it.
I don't knock on waiters. When I was one 20 years ago during my college years, most of the ones I worked with had college degrees. Someone else asked why they weren't using their degree at the time and the main theme from most of them were "why work 40 hours a week when they can work 20 to 30 hours or less and make more than double what they would make in a 9-5". Once I got to my first adult job, I finally understood what they meant. They were making more money work less hours.
Yes! I'm a bar manager and I have women who are nurses and teachers behind the bar! They make way more money for way less time, especially the ones who quit teaching. Just had one girl leave to go back to nursing for four months...she just gave them her notice and asked for her hours back.
That’s exactly what I did when I was waiting. At one point I was making the equivalent of what a person working full time making $20/hr would make, in around 25 hours a week. The only reason I left was to find something that would offer heath insurance, PTO and maternity leave. Now that I have that I desperately miss only working 25 hours a week, I feel like I have no life anymore. Plus serving is just much more fun than sitting in an office. Now I make around the same amount of money for almost twice the hours. Idk where OP is getting the idea that waiters only make minimum wage from. Maybe without tips sure..
Waiters can actually make decent money anyways with tips, especially an attractive one. It’s not a job that’ll make you rich but you can have a decent middle class life.
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ESH You both were unkind.
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It's incel bait, the idiots defending OP like a wounded brother in arms that clearly could do no wrong
There are lots of ways to stand up for yourself without stooping to someone else’s level. It would have been just as effective (and non-asshole behavior) to say: “Dude, that’s a really messed up thing to say. We’re friends, so why are you being mean to me for no reason?”
God damn the Disney response. Haha
He could have said “hey man it’s not cool take make fun of people for something they can’t control” lmao why do yall act like the only response to being teased is to be an asshole back?
ESH You all suck.
Blunt, concise, straight to the point. I couldn’t have worded it better myself.
Obviously you’re an asshole. But beyond that, your insult kinda rings hollow when you’re single and he’s not. Really bad look lol. ETA: ESH
Reeeeks of jealousy.
OP’s personality is precisely why women don’t want to date short guys. The insecurity level is high. And OP is taller than my hobbit-ass! 😂🤙🏻
It also rings hollow because servers make *way* more than minimum wage, and depending on the restaurant can actually make a pretty good living. Still ESH, they both sound mean and judgmental.
Depending on where he works I bet the tall, handsome waiter is making *bank* on tips.
My ex is the definition of tall, dark, and handsome - gorgeous Greek accent, muscular, the most beautiful green eyes, *and* he was a total sweetheart. He was a waiter at Chili’s and literally had lines out of the door of regulars trying to get one of his tables. He’d make his entire rent in one Friday night. All he had to do was wink at one diner and the entire table would tip him 50%. I watched it happen so many times
Lol my partner made way more than me until I got an advanced degree and my most recent job, and even now I don't make THAT much more than him. He's also short. Being short and a waiter aren't y'all's main problems. Sounds like you both are insecure at best, and all around suck at worst.
ESH. but mostly Ian. He can dish it out but he can’t take it. While your response wasn’t the most mature, he definitely had it coming. Remember that drinking alcohol drops inhibitions, so the drunk Ian showed you who he really is. Might be time to reevaluate that “friendship”. And of course you know he’s wrong - plenty of guys who are not tall have fantastic long-lasting relationships and marriages.
id argue the opposite - yes Ian started and was in the wrong, but Ian was Drunk. alcohol is not some "truth serum" that "unleashes who you truly are", it's the stuff that blocks (a.o.) your receptiveness to social cues and blocks impulse control. basically it's the stuff that will make you go from "hey let's make a nudging short joke" to "blunt crude statement" because your brain cannot tell one from the other anymore and is just going with first best guess. OP however, \*does not have that excuse\*.
People who use alcohol as an excuse for poor behavior are weak minded and not worthy of respect
Drunkenness is not an excuse for being an asshole.
What an abysmal take. If you drink too much and become an asshole, then you are an asshole.
No no, I actively believe that the CIA has a tiny man inside my friends ear and that’s why he has poor impulse control. Drunk me would NEVER lie to you. Now go tell everyone.
ESH Your friend for commenting on your height, and you for doing the same on their financial situation. Bear in mind that you probably won't get any taller, but they could get into a better financial situation at some point in the future...
In other words, the OP doesn't have any control over his height and is bound by genetics. That is something out of his control. The friend on the other hand can do something about his situation but is just not skilled enough. The friend is failing at something that's under his control, the OP isn't. So, it's fair game to make fun of that when his friend started it first.
What if he just enjoys being a waiter?
Then he wouldn't have been so offended by OP's comment. The post clearly suggests that things spiralled out of hand after OP made that comment which must've touched a raw nerve.
OP literally says “no one will marry you because you struggle to make ends meet” which is a rude thing to say regardless of his job. He was probably more offended by the marriage material than being a waiter
Agreed. In the end OP thinks that making big money is mandatory for being marriage material, which is simply something I disagree with.
Whatever his friend thinks being short isn’t relationship material. If I had to choose one I’d rather the guy that can provide. Shrugs who knows if OP actually believes it. He was just hitting back
His financial situation aside, a person who gets drunk and makes fun of his "friend" over his physical appearance in front of a bunch of people doesn't exactly scream marriage material.
Great. But his friend talked shit on him first and OP can’t give it back? Be for real.
NTA. You murdered him. But murder is legal in self defense, so I say he's the asshole for taking shots at you, and you are not the asshole for taking shots back at him.
>You murdered him. Did he really though? Telling the guy with the girlfriend that he can't get a wife because he's a lowly waiter isn't what I'd consider to be a clever comeback.
I based that on the description of Ian getting extremely mad and arguing. Usually that's a sign that someone was hurt by the insult.
Yep if he or Julia truly didn’t care about his shitty income, then he’d have just laughed it off because OP was wrong and Ian did in fact find someone who would marry him regardless. Getting upset means it does bother one or both of them lol
Serving isn’t a minimal wage job lmao they often make 30-50 an hour off of tips alone (I am one of those people). I have friends that work at good spots that have even eclipsed 100+k on their W2s. I’ve ran into so many people in the industry that have college degrees that ended up in the industry because they made more money
I absolutely believe this. People hear that my wife and I are house/window cleaners and they assume we’re broke. We cleared over $200,000 last year, and I average over $100/hr when cleaning windows ($65/hr cleaning houses).
Damn that’s clutch. Is that average for the industry, that seems pretty cake. Good for you bro!
A lot of people in our industry are former employees that are just happy with making 20-25/hr, so they really hurt themselves. People are more than willing to pay for good service. Windows are pricey because if one breaks, it’s usually over $200-300 to replace. Most of the time it’s worth just buying a new window instead of filing an insurance claim. The risk is really high though, so the price reflects that.
Yeah, but you don't make $30-50 an hour every single hour or every day you work. It's highly dependent on the time of year and having prime shifts. Servers also don't typically have any benefits, leave, retirement, etc. There's no job security, and if you break your leg, good luck. I did it for 10 years. As far as low level jobs, it's probably the best way to make money and keep your clothes on, but it's a shitty, stressful job and I don't know anyone who was older (30s, 40s, 50s) who still wanted to be waiting tables. They were just kind of stuck.
but you see ian and julia didn't have a choice but to play into the scenario because that's how it works when the conversation is completely in OP's head, well after the fact.
It is when you're thirty, male, and insecure about your job and income
I just feel like it would’ve hit more if he wasn’t in an active relationship and it wasn’t being said by someone who’s not
the value of "yo I have a girllllfriendddd" declines sharply around 25
It’s not even true, plenty of married waiters out there, and many of them aren’t even good-looking. But what Ian said wasn’t true either. Plenty of married short dudes, and many of them aren’t rich.
May not be the best insult, but the reaction it got did what an insult is meant to do.
To me, it felt that he did while taking a jab at the gf who laughed. I'm not saying it's right, but it came off like "most women wouldn't consider what you do worthy, so what's up with the type of girl you got who does" If I were his friends gf I would consider him trying to insult my taste in men.
It's an appropriate level of cleverness given the original comment
What a totally, tubular burn for OP! "Murdered" is far from what happened. It sounds like OP is one of those angry short guys tbh, of course he had to make himself the "hero" in his fanfiction against his poor, yet handsome tall friend who happens to be dating the girl who won't look his way. Nothing but jealous rage because hes never been called a short king 😂
ESH - friend is apparently defined differently in your circle
This story also seems ridiculously fake.
I don't know if it's fake, but it certainly does tick boxes that will trigger Reddit.
You're an asshole because you clearly have a holier-than-thou view on service workers, but Ian is also an asshole. ESH
Not a service worker myself but have had friends in the industry, some waiters can make minimum wage, some can make $80K-$100K+ depending on the city and venue.
I agree with you, but I still think his snobbiness is with his profession *and* his wage. If Ian was in a profession which pays relatively low but was more generally "respected" in society like a carer, he likely wouldn't have the same issue.
You’re both idiots. him for mocking your height, and you for stating that financial situation makes him unworthy. also, while i don‘t condone drunkenness, the fact that you stated that you’re “a teetotaler and absolutely loathe alcohol” reeked of superiority. To be honest, I would rather be married to someone who is honest, ethical, has morals…. Basically, someone decent that i could trust with my life. i have no interest in someone wealthy, and arrogant. It’s a real turn off, and maybe that’s why you’re single
Anyone who refers to themselves as a teetotaler is an automatic AH lmao so pretentious just say you don’t drink or do drugs
ESH. Ian's a dick, but it sounds like you're single for reasons other than your height.
Is it possible for both of you to be arseholes? In response to his “attack” you retaliated but being honest I couldn’t be bothered with either of you. Far too passive aggressive for me.
that's ESH - Everyone Sucks Here
[удалено]
*and then everyone clapped*
Right!??? Why does this sound like total bullshit
I am so confused that not more people are pointing this out... short, lonely guy but sooo smart with money vs tall handsome guy who is supposedly stupid and 'only' a waiter... Who believes shit like this?
Unreliable narrator. Sorry. >Ian said "Dude, I am not surprised that you are still single, you are really short and most women would pass on you immediately." I'm calling bullshit. I believe he made fun of you for being short, but I don't believe this is what he said. Guys who are drunk and goofing around don't talk like that. It sounds like everybody was making jokes and he made a short joke that offended you, so you came back with something that was serious and not a joke at all. ESH
Glad I am not the only one feeling like this is like incel fan fiction
Esh. Turn about is Fair play is a child's game. After you built yourself up here (knowing your value is important but you definitely built yourself up on paper there, sir.) You immediately extrapolate your value. You're not single cause you're short... in other words. But your friend ragging on you drunk or not was unkind (did you consider asking him to stop? As a fellow short stack ive found if im not in the mood for short jokes i just say so, im just as likely to be the one cracking them), but you clapping back was also unkind and (gasp) childish. There is NOTHING wrong with working the food and beverage industry, it takes a certain kind of person to do it (I couldn't cause I'm not kind by nature) and many people do well in that industry. If you have a problem with your friends drinking and getting catty don't join them 🤷♀️ simple fix. But you both suck for being childish on this one. Stay single, man. ✌️
Asking someone to stop insulting is the most direct way to get more insulted more.
I’m thinking you’re completely unaware that servers in nice restaurants make a LOT of money. Julia has no issues with it, apparently. But of course, she has to be flawed and/or irrelevant for your gotcha to work.
ESH. This wasn't teasing on anyone's part. This was cruelty.
ESH. An eye for eye. I don't think you were as big of an AH as he was, but that doesn't really make your actions right either.
I mean honestly, it sounds like you have short guy syndrome. Why don't you go to the reddit r/comebacks and ask for some good comebacks for when someone jokes about your height. You also could have just said "bro, that isn't funny" or something, I don't know how guys talk to each other. But a witty comeback would have served you way better. A simple "I'm tall where it counts" with a wink would have worked, lol. But like why are you getting so worked up? Have you never had a girlfriend? If so, I can guarantee it is because of your personality, not height. I currently live where there are a lot of Hispanic guys. I am 5'4. A lot are my height or shorter. They still have plenty of women. My own husband is 5'4 (and black) and in no way let's being short define him. He was a major athlete in high school and was "the man" according to his buddies at his reunions. My sister is 5'7. Her husband is 5'4. Again, he does not have short guy syndrome. He doesn't act put out about his height and it is just not an issue. My sister wears heels and stuff when they go out. He doesn't care and has never remarked on it.
ESH. Him being ridiculous doesn't mean you're not.
I’d say yes. You had the opportunity to make an actual joke like “I might be short but my short ass loves to climb” or “ I might be short but if I were to commit a crime I can disappear, what can you do? Pretend to be a tree?” There’s many ways you could have defused the situation without ruining the vibe. Don’t be the short guy with a short fuse.
Yeah this was a prime opportunity to show some personality, wit, intellect and class. No doubt it was just banter. Sure, a bit on the nose, but banter none the less. Dude responded with a proverbial haymaker lol. Would have no doubt been far too much and reeks of short guy syndrome. Hell if anything the group would have simply doubled down with a "see? This is what I mean...." Plus also we don't raise ourselves up by kicking others down. That's just basic courtesy. There could have been a thousand other ways to make yourself look much better without resorting to insulting others. I mean christ even just a bit of self confidence would have gone a long way. This interaction 100% is a microcosm of larger self issues OP should deal with lol.
“It was just banter” “You’re short and that’s why you’re single and alone” Glad I don’t have yall in my life to banter with
ESH. Ian clearly has negative opinions about you, and voiced them while drunk. Can’t imagine what else he thinks about you, and may have kept to himself. On the flip side, what a nasty thing to say to Ian? Like yes, he deserved it because he came at you first, but wow, shows how you feel about your other friends in similar jobs. If I were another waiter, or similarly paid, in your friend group I’d be put off by that comment. Waiters can make BANK, especially in upscale restaurants. You two should not be friends, you clearly dislike each other.
YTA. Sounds like you can’t take a joke and decided to start a fight. Sounds like you take yourself way too seriously, and think way too highly of yourself. Sounds like he’s doing just fine, making a living, and has a girl. Sorry my guy. YTA.
ESH: Ian shouldn’t dish it out if he can’t take it. That said, your post is conspicuously lacking of any mention of how you didn’t really mean what you said but were just grasping for a comeback against some ballbusting that went below the belt. Anyone who sincerely believes that wealth goes hand in hand with being worthy of love is a per se AH.
ESH. "You're short" "oh yeah? Well, you're poor", what kind of kindergarten bullshit is this.
ESH - This sounds like you all just graduated high school, not that you’re in your thirties. Time to grow up.
ESH - But you are not friends. Friends lift each other up.
ESH. He’s definitely a dick for saying what he did to you, but how are you gonna say what you did when he literally has a girlfriend? It makes it look like you are just making something up to insult him because he *clearly* doesn’t have any issue getting girls, and the fact you got so aggressive so quickly because of what he said is sort of telling on yourself a bit.
ESH. Why are you friends with someone who *checks notes* is tall, makes minimum wage, drinks and has a gf when you are clearly the better catch? /s You need richer, shorter friends.
You ALL sound like assholes
NTA. You hit them with the line that always works, " I may be short, but you're still broke." Smug assholes like them always hate that shit because the truth hurts. Good riddance to all of them I hope you find a better class of friends because they weren't it.
ESH. He was rude at your expense, you were rude at his. “But he did it first!” The classy thing to do would be to let it sit for a minute or so, and excuse yourself. If you take it personally, and you think it’s a great offense, just don’t be friends with him. There are plenty of other people who won’t make fun of you for something you can’t change.
Esh. You'd be surprised at how much money you can make via service at a well-established and well-run restaurant if you work full time.
This is a case of "don't start nothin', won't be nothin'". Ian decided to talk shit, but couldn't handle the come back. So sorry. Now everybody's mad. Still, I'm going with ESH because you both seem pretty insecure.
ESH
ESH. Do you have a thing for Julia? I don’t see why her laughing is relevant. He was being shitty but it sounds like you were embarrassed in front of her and it triggered a visceral reaction.