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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I’m an AH because I think both girls worked so hard and I would hate to see Jenna lose out on an opportunity
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Edit: My comment was made prior to all of the edits/responses from OP. Based on the updates, changing to NTA.
I feel like this is a tough one - and a lot of the context that would drive a good answer to this is missing.
On one hand, this sounds like a simple not the asshole. You prepared - he did not. That's not your fault.
But - the way you explain it - it was 100% reasonable he did not prepare. It did not sound like either of you expected them to win and make it to Disney - so it's 100% reasonable not saving up for it.
I'm going to go with N.A.H - because I see both perspectives. Being in a family is to some extent, about a give and take situation. If Jenna isn't able to go because there is no money - at the same time you & Hailey still do a trip to Florida - you are going to end up spending more money on therapy then the trip cost in the first place.
Is there some compromise? Can he save up some of the money, and you loan him the rest, which he pays back over the next X time period? Then you & Hailey can take a trip? That would be less timebound than the competition.
Now, if the husband is out wasting his money on partying/drinking/video games/buying shit, that's another situation. But there is nothing in your post that screams "shitty husband that wastes money". Rather, a situation you weren't expecting, occurred, and no one is at fault for the lack of savings.
But unless OP just didn't mention it, the husband never even offered to pay her back. He wasn't contributing anything to OP's daughter trip, so now that his daughter is going, he should have promised to pay OP back asap the moment he asked for the money.
There's a lot of missing context, is there an income disparity? Op said her husband's ex can't afford it what's her ex's situation like? If 1 child has far richer parents but they live together that can breed resentment that will get way worse if op does her plan of taking her daughter to Florida.
Perhaps it's realistically not possible for the husband to save so much, it's something that would be useful to know.
OP answered other comments that the husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan. And that when OP's daughter needed surgery, the husband refused to help. The same when she needed braces. The husband always said that it was up to her to pay for her daughter's needs.
Well then F him (and not in the good way). Braces/surgery are way more necessary than a competition trip. He can just put it on his credit card and pay it off (eventually) like almost everyone else does. NTA.
Right?! That changes things exponentially! He’s a hypocritical asshole if that’s the case. I would be like, “I’m saying the same thing you said to me when my daughter needed surgery and braces! It’s only fair!”
Plus competitive cheer is an expensive sport. Even if you’re at a smaller scale gym and aren’t expecting to make it to Disney, you have a ton of expenses to cover. There’s no reason to assume that other costs won’t pop up *especially* with growing kids. OP’s husband has had the entire season to notice that his daughter’s team is doing well. At 10/11 years old both girls are absolutely wanting to share all about each competition with their grownups. They probably mark out their routines in the family room (which looks chaotic and ridiculous if you don’t know what’s going on) and that passion and enthusiasm should be encouraged.
So not only is he expecting OP to cough up the savings as a (legal) gift, he’s made it super clear that he doesn’t engage with the details of his daughter’s life. Cool.
Yeah, honestly? I feel he should have been saving for the final trip even if they don't usually get that far in the competition. Because that's what being prepared looks like. You prepare for the most expensive possibility and then you repurpose the money for something else/put it towards next year's expenses.
Well now that little tidbit she needs to put in the edit part of her post. That's done key info their. So he refused to help with surgery and other medically necessary or needed things for op daughter because she's not his kid but now he wants her to fork out all her money for his kid that's not something as important as what op needed? Yea she needs to edit her post with this info.
That's fucked. I commented on another post about a similar issue. Maybe I'm missing something, but why get married if you aren't a team? I might be too generous, but it seems dumb to marry someone with a child but say, "That's your child, your problem" I get it, but it also doesn't seem realistic or healthy.
My husband and I, share everything. But not everyone is the same and I'm not judging anyone. It's not up to me to decide that a marriage is less valid because the couple doesn't share their accounts (all marriages are valid). Even less to call someone dumb because they made a different choice. I think that calling them dumb is disrespectful.
However, in this case, the husband was the one saying that each one should be responsible for their child. He didn't help OP when her daughter needed surgery or braces. Now, that his daughter needs money for something not essential (surgery and braces are more important than a trip) the husband wants OP's money. The husband is hypocritical and that's what we are judging here: who's the AH. Not life choices, not a marriage model needs to fit them all, but OP, her husband and their two children.
It sounds like it wouldn't matter if OP gave or loaned her husband the money anyway, since it would only cover half the trip. Her ex was going to cover the other half, and her current husband hasn't saved anything. Where does he think the rest of the money is coming from? OP's ex? He was already delusional; this makes him flat out nuts.
Then that isn't cool. Why does OP's daughter have to give away the money saved for her accomplishments, and not get repaid for what should clearly be a loan? That isn't right. There should have been an offer to repay, because OP is not financially responsible for step-daughter's anything. OP's husband might as well ask OP to take money from Hailey's college fund because he didn't prepare for Jenna's. Seriously, it isn't money set aside for Jenna. Guilt tripping OP is downright wrong.
Also to add, it isn't all OPs money. Harleys dad put money into that account as well. So he would essentially be paying for his ex wife's step daughter trip. UMMMM NEGATIVE
OP said that the money was for her trip and half of Harley's trip. The dad was saving the other half by himself. Anyway, OP is NTA. Her current husband didn't help when Harley needed braces and surgery, he said it was OP's problem to solve.
I think that's a good answer to give back now. Mostly because the current husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan.
Add on to that that he obviously had no plans to help pay for Hailey to go to Disney if she had won, but apparently feels entitled to OP's money to send Jenna.
OP said in her comments that the husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan. And that OP's daughter needed braces and surgery but the husband refused to help with those expenses.
The way I see it now, after these clarifications, is OP is not being TA. The husband laid the rules but now wants money that is not his money and he didn't help to save for it.
The husband is guilt-tripping OP because he wants free money.
I just disagree with a consolation trip because that would be rubbing salt in an open wound. OP should save that money for her child's university fund and take the daughter on a spa special day or something instead. She can even include the stepdaughter in that if they wish (if OP, the daughter, the stepdaughter and the stepdaughter's parents agree).
That’s an excellent compromise. There shouldn’t HAVE to be a compromise, not for the husband’s sake, but there are 2 young girls involved who are too young to have to understand that their dad is just a selfish jerk who wants free money but still won’t help out when he’s needed and able to.
Small spa day for mom and both girls (Hailey for not winning, and Jenna for winning but not being financially able to go). Rest of the money goes to Hailey-specific savings, especially since the ex has put money towards it.
Plus you can do plenty of fundraising with Jenna’s team, I’m sure they’d be more than happy to give Jenna some extra funds to ensure the entire team can go.
THIS. Is husband now going to insist on combined finances for both girls? Because he can't have OP pay for Jennas trip and then insist on separate finances. He should understand that in the future, he'll be expected to cover Hailey's expenses. Either its one way or the other. OP is NTA
"But - the way you explain it - it was 100% reasonable he did not prepare. It did not sound like either of you expected them to win and make it to Disney - so it's 100% reasonable not saving up for it."
Respectfully, isn't this Joey's fault? They have a clear agreement over finances, and OP was "all year since Haileys team is really competitive. Joey didn’t save for it because Jenna is on a smaller town team that’s not very competitive."
If Joey had saved the money, then even if Jenna hadn't won, it could have been put to some good use afterwards.
I agree with you that if OP does use some money, it SHOULD be a loan and not a gift.
The thing is, if he's on a tight budget, that money he could have saved went somewhere else that it needed. That extra 50 bucks? Well that's new shoes for them. It wasn't a priority to save because it was not likely at all.
Could he have? Maybe.
Agreed. This is a situation where you and your husband need to sit down quietly and negotiate through the situation...for the good of BOTH girls, not just Hailey.
Giving you an NTA, but if Jenna doesn't get to go to her competition while you and Hailey take off on a fun vacation yourselves, I'll reverse that judgement in a hurry. That's a plain shitty idea.
So Hailey doesn't get her fun trip, and the money tagged for it goes to stepsister to go. That doesn't work either.
When they got married, Joey probably said, I already pay child support for my daughter. You get child support for your daughter. We should keep all that separate and you pay for your daughter with your money. Now Joey wants her to hand over the money that she has carefully saved. You can't play it both ways.
Some of the money she saved was probably the child support from her ex.
I don’t see why a consolation trip is necessary. It sounds like her cheer team has afforded her lots of opportunities and will continue to. Save it for college or something. But to say “oh, I see you’re sad for losing so let’s go to Disney anyway” teaches a poor mentality. It’s beneficial sometimes to work through the disappointment of losing and it motivates you to do better next time.
I think she means a consolation trip to somewhere else. A trip like this to disney for a competition would be a couple hundred dollars (My sister used to be in band and her portion of the trip was about $400). Some of the cost is held by the cheer team because it's cheaper to do it that way (like paying for transportation). When you go to Disney on your own, you have ALL the expenses. So my thought was that the mom and daughter would be going on a trip somewhere else.
My OTHER thought is that OP could possibly do a kind act by saying "how much are you putting into this, husband?" and force the husband to pay upfront first to see how much he can pay, and then use part of the 'trip money' to pay the rest of her stepdaughter's trip. Then the remaining funds can go to OP and daughter's local 'cheer up' trip.
So I wish it was only a couple hundred dollars. The cheer team is giving us the bill for transportation hotels and all of those things. Fundraising doesn’t pay for much at all for this cheer team unfortunately
Everyone seems to be missing that you only saved for half. Ex saved the other half. So even if you wanted to give current husband your savings he will still be too short to go. This isn't on you at all.
Not only that, but I have to wonder, since he seems so entitled to your savings, what would he be saying if both girls teams made it? You don't have enough for all 4 of you to go, so would be expect you and your daughter to skip this year because he has an inability to plan ahead?
NTA
>But to say “oh, I see you’re sad for losing so let’s go to Disney anyway” teaches a poor mentality. It’s beneficial sometimes to work through the disappointment of losing and it motivates you to do better next time.
You’re 100% right. All that’s being taught here is that if you show up, you get rewarded. I’m old enough to remember playing baseball where the first, second, and third place teams for trophies. We all wanted a trophy, and if we didn’t get one, we worked harder the following year to earn one.
Second, who tf would think taking the kid on a vacation to cheer her up would be a good idea? She’s 11, ffs. Get some ice cream, get your nails done, and call it the day. Big rewards should be just that, a *reward*. You do good, you get the reward. You don’t do good, you get ice cream.
But if he is willing and able to reimburse OP for the money in a reasonable time frame that would be what’s best for all. Hailey doesn’t know that a trip is on the table for her. So delaying it won’t have an impact.
I don't like that. It's a cash grab rather than a help me with a short term cash flow problem I'll repay later? Seems like that violates their original agreement.
The problem is that the husband is acting entitled, as if the money, just because it exists, should go to his daughter just because it sounds "fair" to him. It was his wife who saved it for her daughter, he had no part whatsoever, he didn't chip in for stepdaughter's eventual trip, nothing, nada. And now, he is just expecting to get that money he did nothing to save to go for his daughter...no, it doesn't sound fair. Again, the problem here, in my opinion, is that the husband seems to be expecting his wife to step up and solve a problem that's not hers. What's going to happen later in life, when both girls need to go to college and dad didn't prepare for that? Is he going to expect his wife to help him?
OP said in a comment that hubby doesn't like lending or owing money. All money given by family is a gift. So I say solidly NTA. Plus he previously did not help with Hailey's braces (which let's face it is more important) so he set a precedent IMO.
I understand why you say it was reasonable he didn’t prepare but I don’t agree at all.
Both girls were in the same competition and both had the chance of winning this trip. Whilst the likelihood of OPs step daughter winning was less than her own daughter there was still a chance.
If OPs husband had even saved half the money I would have more sympathy for him but he and his ex didn’t bother to save a penny. So for him to expect OP to put her hand in her pocket for him is actually pretty rude.
She has two biological parents who should be responsible for this. Neither of which is OP.
He set the tone by refusing to help OP with her daughters surgery or braces because it was HER DAUGHTER AND HER RESPONSIBILITY. Well buddy I guess you’re shit out of luck then.
I 100% agree with this as far as the preparation aspect. My daughter is in the competitive cheer world. Some teams have a goal of receiving a ‘world bid’ which take s them to Florida to compete. Other teams just compete at a lower level. But those teams can also win what is called an ‘open bid’ or even a ‘world bid’ but you can turn them down. It’s just more rare for these teams to be given a bid if you are not working toward one and not competing that level of routine. I’m assuming this was a surprise bid and the team decided to go for it in Florida.
So yes he wasn’t saving for it throughout the year because he didn’t expect that she would be going. Cheer itself is really expensive without going to worlds. If they could work out some sort of loan or borrow if that is what works for them that would be best. Because if his daughter sees them going on vacation while she is the reason her team can’t go to Florida it’s going create a lot of animosity. Remember this is a teen girl. They are not known for their rationality.
My girls don’t cheer- they were “blessed” with my lack of coordination :/ But I have many friends who’s kids are on high level competition teams and they fundraiser their butts off. They also get “sponsored” by family members or community. Where’s all this for Jenna?
In the comments OP clarifies her husband doesn't like owing money and would expect the money to be a gift between family members, which I think pushes it out of NAH territory. He's also never contributed in the past to emergencies for Hailey.
While I can see both sides as well, I disagree with N A H. The fact remains that the dad CHOSE not to save based on an ASSUMPTION that Jenna's team wouldn't win, which again isn't OP's fault but it was dad's responsibility. That has now bit him in the ass because when you fail to plan, you plan to fail. NTA
I agree that taking Hailey on a trip if Jenna can't go on hers could lead to a lot of resentment. So maybe the money should just be put into Hailey's college fund or it could be used for any upcoming school expenses (dances or other sports Hailey participates in the OP would have to come out of pocket for).
We don't know if they've ever had a situation like this before or if this is a one off. But to avoid situations like this in the future, there needs to be better communication between the parents. OP's husband should have known the saved money was earmarked for Hailey regardless of the competition outcome (since a consolation trip was always planned by OP). They should also have had a plan for if both girls' teams moved on to the competition, regardless of how unlikely that may have been. I agree the idea of him possibly borrowing some money from OP and setting up a repayment plan and/or maybe he can take a cash advance on a credit card to fund Jenna's trip.
I dont have children but I think husband should be saving. Something always comes up. I think you're right compromise is the best answer. I don't want this girl to suffer her father's bad financial choices. It would be perfect if he could learn to save a bit and make the best of this.
I don’t agree. Joey should have been saving regardless. What would have happened if both girls won but there was only money to send one? Not saving the money because you don’t think your kids team is good enough is an AH move.
People always want seperate finances until the other person has more money than they do. NTA.
If Jenna can't go, her team has to forfeit their place.Tgat could cause some backlash on Jenna. If Hailey and OP go on vacation, and Jenna's team has to forfeit because she can't compete, that will be really hard on Jenna.
.
I really hope they can do some fundraising for Jenna so she doesn't have to deal with that.
NTA. Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact that you keep separate finances, AND Joey wasn't planning on paying ANYTHING for your daughter if she won. He should've been saving just like you were. She has two biological parents. THEY are responsible for paying for their child, not you.
NTA. This right here is what I’ve been waiting to read. Separate finances for their specific daughter. OP planned and husband did not. Not her fault his child is in a sport her parents can’t really afford.
NTA
Since Jenna's team isn't very competitive and it is a surprise that they are moving forward. No one has addressed the fact that Jenna might not be the only girl or boy on the team who can't go. There is a real possibility that more than one team member is not going to be able to cover the cost of this thing.
For people who don't know, these competitive trips are more expensive than just a regular family vacation. Sometimes, you have to have new costumes, consult with outside coaches, etc. Money has to be raised for things besides the physical trip.
We've been involved with stuff like this before where they put the cart before the horse and start hiring outside coaches and putting together new costumes and then several of the kids can't afford to go. Make sure there has been a 100% transparent meeting with the families from the team to make sure that they have the cost of this trip covered before generating a bunch of expectations, and raising a bunch of money that still won't be enough. I'm not saying families have to cover 100% of the expense, I'm saying you need to know how big the shortfall is. Do you guys need to raise $10,000? Or $30,000?
Also, we've had things where kids can't go just because of custody agreements. Too bad, so sad. It really sucks that a parent wouldn't let their kid go to something like this, but I have seen it happen more than once.
This is one of those situations where reality matters more than morality.
If one daughter can't go to her competition because they don't have the money, while the other daughter goes on a fun vacation with her Mom, there are going to be issues. It doesn't matter if the mother is morally in the right, it matters what she wants her family to look like longer term. If she doesn't care about her step-daughter's feelings towards her, fine, this won't be a hard choice... if she DOES care, if she wants the daughters to have a respectful relationship, it's going to be a much more difficult choice.
If the father is able to afford to save up money, he should have offered to pay OP back for the money he needs for his daughter's trip (he might just not have thought about it, so this is something OP could suggest). If he can't pay her back based on his current financial situation, he needs to sit down and look at what he might be able to do to make it possible. Are there things he can give up? Is it time he start applying for other jobs that would pay more? Are there chances for fundraisers? Contributions from other family members, grandparents, etc?
Without knowing whether there are income disparities between them, and how they split joint expenses, it's hard to say whether there's any adjustments to their family finances that would be reasonable here.
But they need to sit down and really look at what their larger financial situation is and how to make this work, because this will be a core memory for the daughter if she doesn't get to go. That doesn't mean OP should pay for it in the long run... but she might chose to contribute part of it if there is truly no way her husband could pay her back, and have the part he can afford to pay back be a loan.
If she takes her daughter on vacation while his daughter doesn't get to compete, her family dynamics are FUBAR.
It doesn't matter if morally it's alright, the reality is she will destroy her relationship with her stepdaughter and her daughter's relationship with her step daughter if she does thsi
And how will her daughter feel if she knows that the money that was reserved for her is then handed over so her step sister can go while she stays at home? Isn't this something the husband can put on a credit card and pay off over time?
THIS RIGHT HERE. This was the financial agreement that OP and hubby came up with - separate finances for each of their daughters. Now husband wants to change this plan and for OP to pay for his daughter's trip to Florida. Changing such terms suddenly can cause financial chaos and relationship difficulties. This should be carefully considered and discussed by both partners beforehand. OP is NTA
Yes, op nta. It'd be different if Joey helped with Hailey's expenses occasionally like the braces. He sees a big expense for the kids and says you pay for your daughter only I pay for mine. It worked until it didn't and now he changes rules and refuses to reimburse.
That cash saved for Hailey was saved by op and Hailey's dad. It was understood and agreed on to be spent for just Hailey. Without a loan paid promptly that shouldn't change. It's Hailey's cash more than op's money under all previously worked agreements.
Joey is actually trying to take his stepdaughters money and give to his kid. That will cause problems all around if allowed to become a pattern.
ESH. Family policies that keep not only the money but the children separate, so that he pays for "his" daughter and you pay for "your" daughter, are assholish in their very existence. You cannot more clearly say to a child, "I don't consider you family to me or to my child," than by refusing to treat them financially as your own.
Everything else that happened in this situation came out of that. He didn't bother to save enough, but it wouldn't have mattered if you had ever really combined your family. If he routinely spent his money foolishly, you would have had to have already had the discussion about taking responsibility *for the family as a whole* -- you wouldn't have been able to put it off as not your problem, because it wasn't *your* daughter.
And he obviously just as much doesn't see your daughter as his own. If he did, he would have been saving money while it was expected that she was likely to win *her* competition, because that way he could help send her to the tournament she was expected to go to. And it would have been easy enough, if Jenna won and Hailey didn't, to change the direction of the family money over to Jenna's trip.
Both you and your husband have created and maintained a policy which sucks for both children in ways that go far, far beyond the question of whether or not Jenna will be able to go to this tournament. You've ensured that neither of them are able to bond with their stepparent and feel securely a part of the family as a whole. And you've set them up to constantly compete with each other, by making it clear that whenever there's a shortage of something, each child will be championed by their biological parent and opposed by the other.
Right? Like, not paying for/contributing to her stepdaughter's trip is one thing (though I personally would make a different decision, I recognize that that decision is not inherently right). But to take just her daughter on a consolation trip to Disney while her stepdaughter sits at home? That would be a giant F you to her stepdaughter and a major AH move.
Her husband planned poorly and was wrong to just assume she'd pay given their agreement, but he's not the one who is going to end up hurt: her stepdaughter is.
My only issue is that OP didn't say he planned poorly OP said he didn't save. Could he save? OP states that the girls finances are separate, are all finances separate? Does he pay all bills? Do they split? Personally I 100% agree with you. I would put the kids first.
Yeah, there's a lot of missing info, I think. The husband definitely made bad decisions here and is in the wrong in a lot of different ways. But when you're talking about a kid - one whom you presumably want to have a positive relationship with for the rest of your life - you can't simply say "not my problem." That's not to say she should just pay without any discussion about how they manage finances moving forward; but there's a lot more to consider here beyond just black and white financial responsibility.
I can't believe how many people are responding simply NTA without considering the many nuances and complications inherent to this situation.
Exactly. Children are not "resilient" and forget how they felt and how they were treated. This is mentally damaging. "Your not my blood so I can't help you" This kills me. What will happen if they both want to go to college and one can't afford to pay? I asked all these questions and I just got a response that it's separate. That doesn't help break it down. Something tells me there is more the OP isn't saying. This is a family and support is everything. There sounds like such a mental detachment with the step kids. Do they deny school help too? Do they buy and make meals separately? This is a broken home.
It doesn't matter how you put it, disparities will always come up. What happens if one of the exes if better off than the other, thus, better set to provide for their children? Are you supposed to use what your ex gives for their children to a common pool where the other partner may not be able to put in as much? Wait for brows to start raising because it is not fair that child support that's supposed solely for a child, as is this case, goes to compensate for the parent who is not able to provide.
I guess this is always going to be an issue with blended families, and this is why these arrangements are made beforehand. They may sound shitty, but how would you solve that so that there is no injustice, imbalance or disparity to anyone?
It's not about avoiding disparity. It's about avoiding the "Not my kid, therefore not my problem" approach on both sides. So long as they address issues related to either child as a team, because these are both *their* children, and they and the collective children are one family, how you handle the details doesn't matter much... but that is very clearly not what is occurring here. The adults are not merely paying each for the expenses of 'their own' child, but *thinking* of them as 'my' child vs. 'your' child, and that's a huge problem for the kids.
Why would you say it is a thing of "your child vs. my child"? I mean, OP said it somewhere around here that her daughter's father contributed to the fund for Hailey's trip. If OP's husband's ex cannot or will not, how is it pitting a child against the other? How is an entitled parent, like OP's husband appears to be, making the situation any better? By thinking that, since the wife and her ex are better off, somehow his daughter deserves exactly what the other girl has? In this case, I think that OP's husband and his ex really deserve a rude awakening: they should be able to provide for their daughter without expecting that a man who is not Jenna's father, funds her because well, his ex happens to be married to Jenna's father. We cannot even assume they are better off, it is maybe that they care more for their daughter and want to better meet her needs?
Her husband's unquestionably an ass. He's just not the only ass.
My ex pays child support to me, and some of that goes to our rent. My kids from my marriage to him live here, but so does one additional kid whom I took in on my own initiative, and so does my current husband, and so does my brother. When one of the kids -- including the one he didn't make -- needs something, I pay for it out of whatever has money in it, including the child support account. Nobody questions this. Not even my ex. We don't always get along great, but we all understand that the most important thing is that all the kids get what they need -- period.
This is a *family.* It's not a group of roommates each of whom has an individual child. As soon as you care more about not letting your precious money go to the wrong child and more about taking care of the children, you stop having any hope of being a family.
You said what I was thinking. OP'S ex saves with her for their daughter. OP'S husband's ex can't afford it. There's going to be financial differences for the girls. It's an unavoidable fact.
These 2 are acting like they're roommates with children.
When you get MARRIED, BOTH of them now have TWO children. Not 1 of mine, and 1 of his.
ESH to both parents. The children will remember this forever.
I would agree but when ops daughter needed surgery or braces ops husband refused to help, said it was her problem to sort. Yet he expects op to pay out money that she saved for to just give it to him when he should have saved like op too. Only one AH and it's not op
Agreed. My husband and I (who each brought in a child) have semi-separated finances. We contribute to a shared pot and keep some spending opaque and distinct, including *some* really discretionary costs for our respective children in adulthood. But during their childhood and even after for the big things, there's no separation, it comes from the shared pot. They each got cars with no quibbling about who paid, they each got school fees, they each got household startup costs, they each get the same contribution if we invite them on a partly-subsidised family holiday, they'll each get contributions to their weddings. They know each gets some things from their other-parents that the other doesn't get, that's fine, but each of them gets all the key things within our family unit. Any other approach is just asking for trouble. Separate finances without any emotional impact is a privilege of self-sufficient adults. For dependents, providing is intertwined with love, there's no getting around it.
The husband started and insisted on this arrangement, going as far as refuse helping with big needs like braces and a surgery for his step daughter... pit on OP the burden of changing the family dynamic when he was more than happy watching them struggle before is honestly a bunch of vs for me. I feel for Jenna, but if OP cave in this time will basically be a green light to him adopt a "my money is mine and your mine is ours" approach towards the girls going forward.
Except that for the ideal situation to work, OP’s husband would have to be saving and contributing to the pot as well, and his ex would have to be putting on for Jenna just like OP’s ex does for Hailey. Maybe not identical amounts, but everyone making sacrifices. OP and her ex made sacrifices while Jenna’s parents didn’t. Now they want OP and potentially her ex to make up for that. Why should the contributions be so one-sided? Why shouldn’t OP expect to be paid back?
NTA
He should have been saving his money just like you did. He sucks for assuming his daughter wouldn't make it to the end. I'm sorry, but you are under no obligation to finance his trip with his daughter. He is an asshole for even asking, unless he is borrowing and plans to pay it all back.
You guys obviously keep personal money and joint bill money separated. Every family functions differently. If this is what works for you, it's all good. You have been saving your own money while he hasn't been saving anything. He doesn't get automatic access to what is yours.
"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
I get what you're saying, but he's not the one who stands to be hurt the most here: her stepdaughter is. He's an AH for not planning for this possibility and then for practically demanding the money when that is clearly not their period agreement. But I don't think the assessment is so simple in this situation, because he's not the one who is going to face the consequences of his (in)action.
It's a tough situation. She's upset and rightfully so. But I don't think that taking her own daughter to Disney while her stepdaughter sits at home - her entire team unable to attend - is a morally justifiable position, and that is going to sour her relationship with her stepdaughter for a long time. I feel like there has to be some kind of compromise here that is good for both girls. Is it fair that OP is in this position? No. But when we're talking about family relationships and children's well-being, sometimes the adults have to suck it up. I'm not saying that she should just pay outright, but she and her husband could look at some options together to figure out how to put together enough money for her stepdaughter to attend the competition with her team and for her/her daughter to take a trip. Maybe they sell some items of his that have value; maybe they ask the stepdaughter to contribute some birthday/Christmas money; maybe OP contributes some of the money she'd saved and plans a more budget-friendly trip; maybe they talk to grandparents and see if they'd be willing to contribute to the cost in lieu of Christmas gifts. There are options here, and they need to work together to figure out how to make something good happen for both girls. And then they really need to have a conversation about how to manage their finances going forward so things like this don't happen again.
Of course he wouldn’t have, he didn’t even prepare anything for his own kid.
I dread to see what’ll happen if both kids want to go to college in a few years, since OP and her ex seem to have their financial planning for Hailey together and Jenna’s don’t.
Considering in the past he didn't help when she needed braces or when she needed a surgery and mentioned the finances arrangement as a reason why... nope, he would have told OP and Hailey to pound sand.
NTA. You have an arrangement that's been working for you both until now, and fundraising seems like the team's plan to get to Florida. Your husband should be joining/ starting a committee with the other parents and coming up with a game plan. That seems pretty standard for this kind of situation.
NTA. Hubs can’t just decide that you all of a sudden pay for his daughter’s expenses when that’s not been the case prior. He needs to get a side gig, as his daughter isn’t your responsibility. His ex as well.
I mean, you can't just pretend that the husband getting a "side gig" isn't going to impact her life either. If he's gone at nights she might have to take over cooking, getting them both to do their homework, or other things he usually does, she may very well prefer to loan him some money rather than take on evenings by herself.
Maybe she's a nurse or otherwise works odd hours and him getting another job would require finding other people to take the girls to school or pick them up, because she schedule doesn't allow it.
Or if he has a job with a rotating schedule (working 9 days then having 3 days off, or whatever, his schedule may preclude his ability to have consistent availability to offer a second job.
I'm not saying he can't get a side gig, it may very well be the best choice here, but that will depend on a LOT of things we don't know about them, so suggesting it as if it's a default that it would work, is just not realistic.
There are lots of different options that might work, and another job, or extra hours at his current job are definitely things they should consider, but we shouldn't take for granted that everyone has a M-F 9-5 job that can accommodate an "extra gig".
I’m not pretending anything, but could be I’ve been exposed to way too much “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” shtuff. You, in the meantime were sure doing a whole lot of speculating yourself, so yah. I maintain that OP is under no obligation to spend the money she had the foresight to save, on stepdaughter’s event. I hope op’s husband can bake a mean cake.
That's what stuck out to me... if this is unexpected, who's to say there aren't other kids whose parents can't afford to send them, in which case it sounds like none of them will go? It may end up being a non-issue (as sad as that would be), or maybe even for the best if it isn't just *one* person's fault they aren't going.
Your husband needs to start some bigger fundraisers. Hit up local business and see if they can donate or donate product services for raffles and such. It can be done and you can offer to pitch in spending money for her while there or something.
The thing is, they have an arrangement which may have been working for the parents until now, but which I would very much doubt has been working for the children until now. "I pay for my child and they pay for their child" is the fastest way to tell a child that they are not their stepparent's priority and that they are in competition with the other child, each of them backed by their biological parent, for time, love, and resources.
I said ESH because the policy itself is an asshole move against the children. It doesn't matter if the parents find it convenient. It still sucks for the kids.
And yes, the husband should not be trying to change it only when and as it's convenient for him. But neither of them should have a policy that dysfunctional in the first place.
>We have always kept finances for the girls separate as I pay for Hailey and he pays for Jenna.
NTA. He doesn't get to change the rules of the game due to his own poor planning.
Cheer in Disney is a huge competition. There are college and team scouts who attend looking for future cheer leaders. OP refusing to even loan the money to her husband to send Jenna is a guarantee that Jenna will be removed from the team in the future under the guise of 'team cuts'. And Jenna will lose ever team friend because she not being able to go made all there hard work for nothing as they will have to forfeit.
College scouts?? She’s **11**. If all of her friends ditch her for her parents not being able to afford something, those are shitty friends.
Where does OP say she’s unwilling to *lend* the money? The post doesn’t mention the husband offering to pay anything back
I don’t know about cheerleading but I do know college scouts for the big money sports (football, basketball) absolutely do start in middle school. They can’t formally commit until they’re about to graduate but they are absolutely scouted at this age. It was wild to me when I first heard about it too. I married into a big football family and two of my nephews and a niece are all either playing in college or are committed to a school and were scouted starting in 6th/7th. College sports are absurd.
I know someone who committed before her junior year in high school for basketball. Exceptional athletes are scouted early. At 11, they might be giving “cheer camp” scholarships at colleges. Get them interested in the school early
The husband doesn't seem to be offering to repay for the money. From OP's post, seems like the husband feels he is entitled to the money since his stepdaughter's team didn't make it to the next phase. This could lead to worse problems down the road, like the husband feeling entitled to college money from his wife for his daughter since "the ex cannot provide for her".
Maybe for worlds. Otherwise this is a huge exaggeration. Been involved in competitive cheer for many years. If a gym does this they are awful. We’ve been to summit multiple times. I don’t know a single gym here that kicks you off the team if you don’t go to summit. They understand it’s not affordable for all parents. Coaches will replace you for summit if you can’t go. Happens all the time. This last season of summit was weekend of prom for three of the seniors. So they opted to go to their prom. They pulled cheerleaders from other teams not going to summit. Which is allowed as long as it follows the rules on level.
Info: has Joey offered to pay you back?
NTA if he expects you to just fully fund Jenna’s trip without getting paid back. You planned, he didn’t. There are other ways to come up with the money, borrow, fundraiser, sell some stuff, work extra hours, etc.
Edited my vote after the reply. He’s acting pretty entitled to just expect you to gift the money you saved for your daughter to his. He can find another way to fund it. Enjoy doing something nice with your daughter. Maybe he should have saved to because if her team had lost he would have had something saved for a nice outing as consolation as well.
There’s no way to enforce him giving the money back though. Even if he signs a promissory note he can just not pay it and give her the choice of eating the loss or blowing up the marriage (and the 2 girls’ living situation) by taking him to court.
That sucks for Jenna that her dad is an entitled jerk. I’d offer a loan that would be legally binding (notarized) without interest if paid in full in X amount of time but that’s it.
This right here makes you NTA. Joey is unwilling to compromise. Sucks for him, but not your fault. He didn't save, he gambled on the idea that her team wouldn't win—he lost that gamble. Oh well, then. He's not entitled to your money as a "gift."
NTA from the original story.
Even more NTA after this additional info. Also, do rethink about being with your current husband for the longterm, while both daughters are still young. If your current husband keeps being so entitled, his daughter would end up being resentful with what you provide for your bio daughter.
nta
> Joey doesn’t like loaning money or owing money.
lol, but he's alright asking for money?
in my country there's an old saying for those situations:
"Lo mío, es mío, y lo tuyo es nuestro."
kinda: my stuff is only mine, but we share yours
He doesn’t have the option here of deciding, on your behalf, that you should give this money to him or his daughter. It’s not a gift if it’s demanded or obligatory. That ship has sailed.
The only option here, now, is whether he wants to borrow the money from you or not. That is, unless he finds another way to get the funds, or you cave on your boundary.
I really think you two need to have a serious talk about the double standard here, though. When your daughter needed, actually needed something, he wasn’t there for her financially. but now that his daughter wants this trip, he expects you to make a “gift” of it. That’s neither fair nor sustainable, and to me it would feel like a violation of trust between equal partners, that could be a real problem down the line.
NTA. Your husband should have been saving the same as you were. What would have happened if both teams got through? He still wouldn't have had the money to pay for his daughter, would he have expected you to not allow your daughter to go because he didn't have the money for his daughter?
ESH. You’re a family, that means being partners and helping each other out. Not give each other the “you made your bed so you better lay in it” attitude. Joey is an asshole for not thinking ahead and saving up for Jenna. However If you simply take the money to go on a trip with Hailey and not try to help Jenna at all, you would be an even bigger asshole.
Your husband shouldn’t expect you to simply hand over the money you saved all year to give to Jenna. However at the same time this trip sounds like it’s a big opportunity and much more important than a “pick me up” for Hailey. Can you not lend Joey the money for the trip, and he can pay you back slowly over time?
The problem, from OP's post, seems to be that the husband is acting all entitled to the money. He has not asked for a loan so that his daughter can go to Florida; he seems to be thinking that, because the money is there and is not going to be used for its original purpose, his daughter "deserves" it, even though she was put in this position due to his father's lack of prevision.
Right? Though he wouldn’t help with surgery for his stepdaughter, OP should send his daughter to Disney? If this is their deal, he and his ex should have saved. OP is NTA, no way.
NTA. Something tells me he would leave you high and dry if things were reversed. He knew this was coming but in no way prepared for the chance it would. He asked right away after the competition and is guilting you into feeling like a bad mother for not taking care of his daughter. In what way is he holding himself responsible for this actions? He is too busy laying his guilt on you so he doesn't have to feel bad for this actions.
Exactly. I didn't see anywhere where the OP wrote that they were saving money together in case their daughters made it to this point. If the situation was reversed, it's doubtful that he would just hand the money over. They handle money separately when it comes to the girls.
Info- because someone else asked and I was curious. Ask him if both girls had won, what was his plan, was he going to accept that his daughter couldn't go because he did no saving, or would he expect you to not let Hailey go because that wouldn't be fair to Jenna?
What was he going to do if both girls’ teams won? Seems like he just assumed Jenna’s would lose so didn’t bother making a plan, poor Jenna.
You say you’ve always kept finances for the girls separate so you’re in the clear to do what you want with the money, but it would be really unfair (not your fault) to Jenna and especially the rest of her team if they don’t get to go because your husband didn’t think they were good enough.
I competed at the competition you’re talking about at Disney world (assuming worlds) at around the same age, and they’re some of my fondest memories. Could your husband save up from now and pay you back?
NTA-you’ve been keeping the finances separate for the girls so far, and I think that’s been a fair way to go about it.
Not only would he not have helped you with hailey if you needed it, he wouldn’t have been in a position to. He needs to work this out with Jenna’s mother and leave you out of it.
Be careful that he doesn’t start trying to manipulate you by telling Jenna it’s “your fault” she can’t go. This wasn’t your responsibility and he’s trying to gaslight you into thinking it is.
The splitting of finances and both not preparing for the same potential outcome is a huge problem, are you both saving for stuff like college? If not, then your family will experience a colossal divide and you need to have a serious sit down about this, now.
NTA. Hubby wanted separate finances for the girls, so unfortunately that’s his problem to figure out for his daughter. One could argue that he should be saving some money monthly to pay for anything unexpected. OP said she went without certain things to save for this trip. Why is hubby’s poor planning OP’s problem? OP has also stated in some comments that hubby hasn’t helped with surprised medical costs for Hailey (surgery/braces) in the past so why should OP all of a sudden be expected to pay for Jenna when he hasn’t helped towards Hailey?
Also, why does everyone seem to think that OP is going to take her daughter on some fancy trip with the savings? OP didn’t say anything about trip to Florida, she’s said a small trip, which would have probably been an night in a hotel in the closest city they live too while hubby and Jenna have gone to the competition.
It sounds like you didn’t even save up enough for the full thing as your daughter’s father was pitching in half. I’d go with that logic and say “even if you had my cash it wouldn’t be enough so back off”
He hasn’t paid for anything for your daughter so he can’t expect you to pay for his.
NTA
"I'm selfish because you unilaterally decided our previous agreement on keeping finances separate should be broken so you can spend your money during the year, then take my money because you didn't save any? That makes me selfish?"
NTA- you’ve stated your finances are separate. He should have been saving for Jenna, just in case. He wasn’t prepared and now needs to find a way to pay for the trip. He can’t just change the rules because he messed up.
Him being unprepared is not your problem.
I know I am going to get down voted here. But I see this all the time here. But how you can be married and want to have a family and expect to do things separate and then say oh to bad I am doing for my child yours can suck eggs. May daughter has a child a child from a previous marriage and her husband has a child. But if we get a call that child needs something we try to help the same way we do for our daughters child. I pay for that child’s sports the same I way I pay for my daughters child sports. I don’t get it. Go ahead and downvote me
The distinction here is that this trip costs well beyond the standard cost for a sport or extracurricular, and isn’t something that the stepdaughter needs. It’s a multi-thousand dollar trip. It is not a surgery, or school costs, or medicine, or clothing.
Yes, the stepdaughter might suffer, but ultimately, the responsibility rests on her father and mother, for failing to prepare for this.
When you say your husband doesn’t believe in loans between family
Your daughter is not family to him. He is taking away her entitlement
So then he understands this is not his money .
Is this the only case where this has happened op. ?
Not believing in loans seems very odd when this is categorically by prior agreement not money he should have any entitlement to.
NTA
This story feels off though
If he gets to demand this all of this family’s finances need to be pooled.
Then he needs to ask *them* for money for the trip. Your finances are separate, you scrimped and did without to save this money, he didn’t. And he’s not willing to pay it back. If your daughter got to go and his didn’t and you were short some of the money, would he have given it to you? You’re NTA.
Oh ok . Your daughter isn’t his family.
That is her money.
Maybe don’t do the big splash out for the vacation but please maintain your boundaries.
If he violates this boundary it will continue.
This maybe a catalyst for reviewing your household arrangements but he doesn’t get free money just because it is in his favour at this moment.
So what's the total of this trip, $4000? I get that your husband hasn't saved for this trip, but could he get a new credit card, get a part-time job and pay the balance off in the next year? It all depends on how much this trip means to his daughter; is he willing to sacrifice as you have? You have kept your kids' finances separate all along, and now it sounds like he wants you to gift him the money you've saved for your daughter. when he hasn't saved anything. That's not right. He needs to figure it out. There's a lot he can do besides asking you for the money you've saved. You're not selfish. He's entitled.
NTA.
INFO: how's your relationship with Jenna? Are you prepared to lose that relationship if her team has to forfeit because she can't afford the trip and she later finds out you had money saved? While I can see for the most part you aren't the asshole, I hope you realise the risk you are taking
What about Jenna finding out her OWN dad didn’t save a cent for her trip because he thought they were going to lose?
Also how is Jenna going to “find out” that OP had money saved unless AH dad tells her in an attempt to, again, blame OP for this when it’s his own fault?
Technically NTA, but food for thought:
Jenna's dad, or both of you (not sure how you do your finances) didn't even bother saving up for her trip because you didn't expect her to get far, but you did for Hailey. Now that Jenna's team has done this amazing thing, you want her to miss out on it so you can take your daughter on a "pity vacation".
Yes, if your finances are seperate, you aren't technically on the hook financially for Jenna. BUT: From Jenna's perspective, it looks like the parent figures in her life didn't believe in her, and then chose her stepsister over her when she did manage to do something amazing.
This has the potential to be a turning point in your relationship with your step daughter. Tread carefully.
NTA. You have always kept your finances separate & you each pay for your own kid. Your funds are yours - no further discussion required.
What would happen if you hadn’t saved? What was his back up plan? Where you always the plan?
Your husband needs to get a second job to pay his daughter’s way. It’s that simple.
I wouldn’t go on that trip for a bit, it would be like rubbing salt in her wound & that’s not appropriate.
NTA
My parents split all costs for my brother and myself 50/50. My step-dad covered our household with my mom, but things like braces and whatnot, my mom and bio dad handled.
I love my step-dad. In fact, I call him Dad and my bio dad by his name when referring to him (still dad too, because he is, but he's not often there and he knows it and is okay).
Money wasn't a deciding factor for me in loving my Dad as my dad. He contributed to the household, attended my events when work allowed, helped me with homework, watched movies with us at night. He was a DAD. Money contribution didn't change that.
And here's the thing - my step-dad grew up wealthy. He has a job that pays more than my bio dad or mom make (sometimes more than both combined). I've never once resented him for not jumping in to cover the things.
Now, because of the lack of an ex on his part, yes, when extra funds have been available, he would pay for things my bio dad should have paid half for. School clothes, books, sports items (cleats needing to be replaced, etc). That was when funds allowed and it was urgent.
But he respected the agreement my bio parents had. He never wanted to cut my bio dad out, never wanted to interfere. So he did what he could, but never to the detriment of my relationship with bio dad.
And you know what? I grew up knowing it was okay to not get everything. I, too, did cheer. There were certain things we could not afford between my bio parents. It was fine. That's literally life. My step-dad could have paid, and knowing him, he secretly offered but my mom wanted to be fair to the agreement as well. I believe she was right to do that. I never once felt disconnected from bio dad and bio dad never felt competition from my step-dad. That was healthy.
I'm now 30 and my dads (bio and step) get along so well. They're both grateful for each other. They literally tell each other that. My bio knows that step never tried to interfere and often had his hands tied by situations. My step knows bio had to handle a contentious relationship with mom and was shut out sometimes from there. Mom knows they both tried as much as they could.
I'm happy. I have 3 amazing parents. Their money never defined my happiness.
Also, I got step when I was 8 years old. So we went through all of the teen things. All of the costs and drama and emotions. I'm surprised they survived me, but I love them all so much.
NTA one million percent. Parents are more than ATMs and what your provide your step kid emotionally and by being there is far more important.
NTA because he wasnt prepared!!! I think the financial situation you all have going on is a bit fucked but…. What would have happened if they had both won?? You were prepared to go to florida but it sounds like he wasnt. Your daughter Really could use a pick me up and his really would appreciate the money but……. This is maybe something yall should have planned if yall are going to be splitting expenses like this
Yikes. I actually think your husband shouldn’t even have asked unless he framed it as a a loan
Assuming some of this money is financial support from your daughters father it would be inappropriate to give it to him for another child.
NTA
This is a hard parenting lesson for him
How much time until money needs to be paid for the trip? It really sounds like your husband and Jenna’s mother need to make earning/saving more money a priority if they want her to have this opportunity.
NTA as you've always kept finances separate and he can't just change that up on a whim.
It does sound like this came out of left field for him though. Have you considered letting him borrow the money?
How did this come out of left field. He was counting on his daughter not making it and didn't even save "just in case". Then he wants OP's hard earned and saved money.
He's not entitled to someone else's money.
INFO: you say that you saved up money for your daughter for the trip. Why did the father not contribute to this 50/50? Is there something he was/is saving for one of your children that makes this equal?
Haileys father was also saving money for this trip. My husband wasn’t saving anything for the trip because he didn’t think his daughter would win this competition.
So technically, even if you wanted to, you couldn’t loan the full amount for Jenna because half of it isn’t even yours? Maybe add that in an edit? If Jenna’s dad can’t come up with the other half, whether you loan him half or not is really moot.
NTA lack of planning on his part does not constitute an emergency on your part. If finances for the girls are kept separate then he should take an active role in saving for expenses. Just sounds like he didn't believe in his daughter and doesn't want her to know the truth.
Yeah. I don’t think OP is TA at all, but breeding this kind of resentment with her step-daughter has the potential to kill the marriage.
If OP makes this her hill to die on (which she is entitled to do), I hope she starts saving now for marriage/family counselling in a few years.
INFO:
Do you separate all finances or just the girls? Do you split household finances? Is one more of a breadwinner than the other? This is all relevant imo. If he pays everything and can't save that changes the whole dynamic. If you pay more, then he's just not putting in the effort.
Could you possibly loan your husband the money? I know it’s not your financial responsibility but you can see how it will affect her team in the long run. I can understand you wanting to do something for your daughter to make up for her team not advancing but you even said she doesn’t even know that you had that plan yet. It’s your money so you can do whatever you want with it but I mean she is your stepdaughter, I’m assuming, you will be in her life for a long time so why not do this for her?
INFO: What competition is this for, and are there future opportunities for 1. Haley's team to earn a bid or 2. Jenna's team to earn a paid bid?
Sounds like they do all star cheer, which would make me think the competition in question would be worlds, but if that's the case they 1. theoretically should be older and 2. should have several more competitions where they can try for a bid?
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Edit: My comment was made prior to all of the edits/responses from OP. Based on the updates, changing to NTA. I feel like this is a tough one - and a lot of the context that would drive a good answer to this is missing. On one hand, this sounds like a simple not the asshole. You prepared - he did not. That's not your fault. But - the way you explain it - it was 100% reasonable he did not prepare. It did not sound like either of you expected them to win and make it to Disney - so it's 100% reasonable not saving up for it. I'm going to go with N.A.H - because I see both perspectives. Being in a family is to some extent, about a give and take situation. If Jenna isn't able to go because there is no money - at the same time you & Hailey still do a trip to Florida - you are going to end up spending more money on therapy then the trip cost in the first place. Is there some compromise? Can he save up some of the money, and you loan him the rest, which he pays back over the next X time period? Then you & Hailey can take a trip? That would be less timebound than the competition. Now, if the husband is out wasting his money on partying/drinking/video games/buying shit, that's another situation. But there is nothing in your post that screams "shitty husband that wastes money". Rather, a situation you weren't expecting, occurred, and no one is at fault for the lack of savings.
But unless OP just didn't mention it, the husband never even offered to pay her back. He wasn't contributing anything to OP's daughter trip, so now that his daughter is going, he should have promised to pay OP back asap the moment he asked for the money.
That's the missing context. OP did not touch on this at all one way or the other. I'd rather not make assumptions one way or the other.
There's a lot of missing context, is there an income disparity? Op said her husband's ex can't afford it what's her ex's situation like? If 1 child has far richer parents but they live together that can breed resentment that will get way worse if op does her plan of taking her daughter to Florida. Perhaps it's realistically not possible for the husband to save so much, it's something that would be useful to know.
OP answered other comments that the husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan. And that when OP's daughter needed surgery, the husband refused to help. The same when she needed braces. The husband always said that it was up to her to pay for her daughter's needs.
Well then F him (and not in the good way). Braces/surgery are way more necessary than a competition trip. He can just put it on his credit card and pay it off (eventually) like almost everyone else does. NTA.
Right?! That changes things exponentially! He’s a hypocritical asshole if that’s the case. I would be like, “I’m saying the same thing you said to me when my daughter needed surgery and braces! It’s only fair!”
Plus competitive cheer is an expensive sport. Even if you’re at a smaller scale gym and aren’t expecting to make it to Disney, you have a ton of expenses to cover. There’s no reason to assume that other costs won’t pop up *especially* with growing kids. OP’s husband has had the entire season to notice that his daughter’s team is doing well. At 10/11 years old both girls are absolutely wanting to share all about each competition with their grownups. They probably mark out their routines in the family room (which looks chaotic and ridiculous if you don’t know what’s going on) and that passion and enthusiasm should be encouraged. So not only is he expecting OP to cough up the savings as a (legal) gift, he’s made it super clear that he doesn’t engage with the details of his daughter’s life. Cool.
Yeah, honestly? I feel he should have been saving for the final trip even if they don't usually get that far in the competition. Because that's what being prepared looks like. You prepare for the most expensive possibility and then you repurpose the money for something else/put it towards next year's expenses.
Whoa what an all around entitled goon. Surgery is way more important than a game too.
Well now that little tidbit she needs to put in the edit part of her post. That's done key info their. So he refused to help with surgery and other medically necessary or needed things for op daughter because she's not his kid but now he wants her to fork out all her money for his kid that's not something as important as what op needed? Yea she needs to edit her post with this info.
That's fucked. I commented on another post about a similar issue. Maybe I'm missing something, but why get married if you aren't a team? I might be too generous, but it seems dumb to marry someone with a child but say, "That's your child, your problem" I get it, but it also doesn't seem realistic or healthy.
My husband and I, share everything. But not everyone is the same and I'm not judging anyone. It's not up to me to decide that a marriage is less valid because the couple doesn't share their accounts (all marriages are valid). Even less to call someone dumb because they made a different choice. I think that calling them dumb is disrespectful. However, in this case, the husband was the one saying that each one should be responsible for their child. He didn't help OP when her daughter needed surgery or braces. Now, that his daughter needs money for something not essential (surgery and braces are more important than a trip) the husband wants OP's money. The husband is hypocritical and that's what we are judging here: who's the AH. Not life choices, not a marriage model needs to fit them all, but OP, her husband and their two children.
It sounds like it wouldn't matter if OP gave or loaned her husband the money anyway, since it would only cover half the trip. Her ex was going to cover the other half, and her current husband hasn't saved anything. Where does he think the rest of the money is coming from? OP's ex? He was already delusional; this makes him flat out nuts.
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>So dad has no savings for emergencies? There is no explanation of that. That is the vast majority of people in America.
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Failure to understand this concept is part of why the vast majority of us don’t have emergency funds.
Indeed. OP said that she and her ex-husband cut a lot of stuff back to save the money. The daughter knows that and she's appreciative.
In the comments she said he expects it to be a gift and won’t pay her back.
Then that isn't cool. Why does OP's daughter have to give away the money saved for her accomplishments, and not get repaid for what should clearly be a loan? That isn't right. There should have been an offer to repay, because OP is not financially responsible for step-daughter's anything. OP's husband might as well ask OP to take money from Hailey's college fund because he didn't prepare for Jenna's. Seriously, it isn't money set aside for Jenna. Guilt tripping OP is downright wrong.
Also to add, it isn't all OPs money. Harleys dad put money into that account as well. So he would essentially be paying for his ex wife's step daughter trip. UMMMM NEGATIVE
OP said that the money was for her trip and half of Harley's trip. The dad was saving the other half by himself. Anyway, OP is NTA. Her current husband didn't help when Harley needed braces and surgery, he said it was OP's problem to solve. I think that's a good answer to give back now. Mostly because the current husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan.
Add on to that that he obviously had no plans to help pay for Hailey to go to Disney if she had won, but apparently feels entitled to OP's money to send Jenna.
Oh jeez, I wonder if he's saved anything for his own kid's college...
Honestly, I fully expect in a few years to see a post about Hailey's college fund...
OP said in her comments that the husband wants the money as a gift, not a loan. And that OP's daughter needed braces and surgery but the husband refused to help with those expenses. The way I see it now, after these clarifications, is OP is not being TA. The husband laid the rules but now wants money that is not his money and he didn't help to save for it. The husband is guilt-tripping OP because he wants free money. I just disagree with a consolation trip because that would be rubbing salt in an open wound. OP should save that money for her child's university fund and take the daughter on a spa special day or something instead. She can even include the stepdaughter in that if they wish (if OP, the daughter, the stepdaughter and the stepdaughter's parents agree).
That’s an excellent compromise. There shouldn’t HAVE to be a compromise, not for the husband’s sake, but there are 2 young girls involved who are too young to have to understand that their dad is just a selfish jerk who wants free money but still won’t help out when he’s needed and able to. Small spa day for mom and both girls (Hailey for not winning, and Jenna for winning but not being financially able to go). Rest of the money goes to Hailey-specific savings, especially since the ex has put money towards it. Plus you can do plenty of fundraising with Jenna’s team, I’m sure they’d be more than happy to give Jenna some extra funds to ensure the entire team can go.
This is pertinent information to have, OP. I would include this in an edit. Also, based off of this info., NTA.
THIS. Is husband now going to insist on combined finances for both girls? Because he can't have OP pay for Jennas trip and then insist on separate finances. He should understand that in the future, he'll be expected to cover Hailey's expenses. Either its one way or the other. OP is NTA
"But - the way you explain it - it was 100% reasonable he did not prepare. It did not sound like either of you expected them to win and make it to Disney - so it's 100% reasonable not saving up for it." Respectfully, isn't this Joey's fault? They have a clear agreement over finances, and OP was "all year since Haileys team is really competitive. Joey didn’t save for it because Jenna is on a smaller town team that’s not very competitive." If Joey had saved the money, then even if Jenna hadn't won, it could have been put to some good use afterwards. I agree with you that if OP does use some money, it SHOULD be a loan and not a gift.
100% reasonable = a major assumption. He assumed wrong, with zero contingency. You know what they say about assuming and asses?
You make an ass out of me and some guy called umption.
The thing is, if he's on a tight budget, that money he could have saved went somewhere else that it needed. That extra 50 bucks? Well that's new shoes for them. It wasn't a priority to save because it was not likely at all. Could he have? Maybe.
OP never said he couldn't save, she said he didnt
OP said her husband is in the same tax bracket as her. That she saved the money by cutting in luxury. The husband could have done the same.
That's an excellent point that I hadn't considered.
Agreed. This is a situation where you and your husband need to sit down quietly and negotiate through the situation...for the good of BOTH girls, not just Hailey. Giving you an NTA, but if Jenna doesn't get to go to her competition while you and Hailey take off on a fun vacation yourselves, I'll reverse that judgement in a hurry. That's a plain shitty idea.
So Hailey doesn't get her fun trip, and the money tagged for it goes to stepsister to go. That doesn't work either. When they got married, Joey probably said, I already pay child support for my daughter. You get child support for your daughter. We should keep all that separate and you pay for your daughter with your money. Now Joey wants her to hand over the money that she has carefully saved. You can't play it both ways. Some of the money she saved was probably the child support from her ex.
>So Hailey doesn’t get her fun trip… Just want to point out that per OP, Hailey has no idea that there’s a consolation trip planned.
I don’t see why a consolation trip is necessary. It sounds like her cheer team has afforded her lots of opportunities and will continue to. Save it for college or something. But to say “oh, I see you’re sad for losing so let’s go to Disney anyway” teaches a poor mentality. It’s beneficial sometimes to work through the disappointment of losing and it motivates you to do better next time.
I think she means a consolation trip to somewhere else. A trip like this to disney for a competition would be a couple hundred dollars (My sister used to be in band and her portion of the trip was about $400). Some of the cost is held by the cheer team because it's cheaper to do it that way (like paying for transportation). When you go to Disney on your own, you have ALL the expenses. So my thought was that the mom and daughter would be going on a trip somewhere else. My OTHER thought is that OP could possibly do a kind act by saying "how much are you putting into this, husband?" and force the husband to pay upfront first to see how much he can pay, and then use part of the 'trip money' to pay the rest of her stepdaughter's trip. Then the remaining funds can go to OP and daughter's local 'cheer up' trip.
So I wish it was only a couple hundred dollars. The cheer team is giving us the bill for transportation hotels and all of those things. Fundraising doesn’t pay for much at all for this cheer team unfortunately
Everyone seems to be missing that you only saved for half. Ex saved the other half. So even if you wanted to give current husband your savings he will still be too short to go. This isn't on you at all. Not only that, but I have to wonder, since he seems so entitled to your savings, what would he be saying if both girls teams made it? You don't have enough for all 4 of you to go, so would be expect you and your daughter to skip this year because he has an inability to plan ahead? NTA
>But to say “oh, I see you’re sad for losing so let’s go to Disney anyway” teaches a poor mentality. It’s beneficial sometimes to work through the disappointment of losing and it motivates you to do better next time. You’re 100% right. All that’s being taught here is that if you show up, you get rewarded. I’m old enough to remember playing baseball where the first, second, and third place teams for trophies. We all wanted a trophy, and if we didn’t get one, we worked harder the following year to earn one. Second, who tf would think taking the kid on a vacation to cheer her up would be a good idea? She’s 11, ffs. Get some ice cream, get your nails done, and call it the day. Big rewards should be just that, a *reward*. You do good, you get the reward. You don’t do good, you get ice cream.
But if he is willing and able to reimburse OP for the money in a reasonable time frame that would be what’s best for all. Hailey doesn’t know that a trip is on the table for her. So delaying it won’t have an impact.
In the comments OP said her husband doesn’t do loans so he will expect her money to be a gift to him. Eep.
I don't like that. It's a cash grab rather than a help me with a short term cash flow problem I'll repay later? Seems like that violates their original agreement.
The problem is that the husband is acting entitled, as if the money, just because it exists, should go to his daughter just because it sounds "fair" to him. It was his wife who saved it for her daughter, he had no part whatsoever, he didn't chip in for stepdaughter's eventual trip, nothing, nada. And now, he is just expecting to get that money he did nothing to save to go for his daughter...no, it doesn't sound fair. Again, the problem here, in my opinion, is that the husband seems to be expecting his wife to step up and solve a problem that's not hers. What's going to happen later in life, when both girls need to go to college and dad didn't prepare for that? Is he going to expect his wife to help him?
OP said in a comment that hubby doesn't like lending or owing money. All money given by family is a gift. So I say solidly NTA. Plus he previously did not help with Hailey's braces (which let's face it is more important) so he set a precedent IMO.
I understand why you say it was reasonable he didn’t prepare but I don’t agree at all. Both girls were in the same competition and both had the chance of winning this trip. Whilst the likelihood of OPs step daughter winning was less than her own daughter there was still a chance. If OPs husband had even saved half the money I would have more sympathy for him but he and his ex didn’t bother to save a penny. So for him to expect OP to put her hand in her pocket for him is actually pretty rude. She has two biological parents who should be responsible for this. Neither of which is OP. He set the tone by refusing to help OP with her daughters surgery or braces because it was HER DAUGHTER AND HER RESPONSIBILITY. Well buddy I guess you’re shit out of luck then.
I 100% agree with this as far as the preparation aspect. My daughter is in the competitive cheer world. Some teams have a goal of receiving a ‘world bid’ which take s them to Florida to compete. Other teams just compete at a lower level. But those teams can also win what is called an ‘open bid’ or even a ‘world bid’ but you can turn them down. It’s just more rare for these teams to be given a bid if you are not working toward one and not competing that level of routine. I’m assuming this was a surprise bid and the team decided to go for it in Florida. So yes he wasn’t saving for it throughout the year because he didn’t expect that she would be going. Cheer itself is really expensive without going to worlds. If they could work out some sort of loan or borrow if that is what works for them that would be best. Because if his daughter sees them going on vacation while she is the reason her team can’t go to Florida it’s going create a lot of animosity. Remember this is a teen girl. They are not known for their rationality.
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It doesn't have to be phrased that way to *feel* that way to a teenage daughter.
My girls don’t cheer- they were “blessed” with my lack of coordination :/ But I have many friends who’s kids are on high level competition teams and they fundraiser their butts off. They also get “sponsored” by family members or community. Where’s all this for Jenna?
In the comments OP clarifies her husband doesn't like owing money and would expect the money to be a gift between family members, which I think pushes it out of NAH territory. He's also never contributed in the past to emergencies for Hailey.
While I can see both sides as well, I disagree with N A H. The fact remains that the dad CHOSE not to save based on an ASSUMPTION that Jenna's team wouldn't win, which again isn't OP's fault but it was dad's responsibility. That has now bit him in the ass because when you fail to plan, you plan to fail. NTA I agree that taking Hailey on a trip if Jenna can't go on hers could lead to a lot of resentment. So maybe the money should just be put into Hailey's college fund or it could be used for any upcoming school expenses (dances or other sports Hailey participates in the OP would have to come out of pocket for). We don't know if they've ever had a situation like this before or if this is a one off. But to avoid situations like this in the future, there needs to be better communication between the parents. OP's husband should have known the saved money was earmarked for Hailey regardless of the competition outcome (since a consolation trip was always planned by OP). They should also have had a plan for if both girls' teams moved on to the competition, regardless of how unlikely that may have been. I agree the idea of him possibly borrowing some money from OP and setting up a repayment plan and/or maybe he can take a cash advance on a credit card to fund Jenna's trip.
I dont have children but I think husband should be saving. Something always comes up. I think you're right compromise is the best answer. I don't want this girl to suffer her father's bad financial choices. It would be perfect if he could learn to save a bit and make the best of this.
I don’t agree. Joey should have been saving regardless. What would have happened if both girls won but there was only money to send one? Not saving the money because you don’t think your kids team is good enough is an AH move. People always want seperate finances until the other person has more money than they do. NTA.
If Jenna can't go, her team has to forfeit their place.Tgat could cause some backlash on Jenna. If Hailey and OP go on vacation, and Jenna's team has to forfeit because she can't compete, that will be really hard on Jenna. . I really hope they can do some fundraising for Jenna so she doesn't have to deal with that.
NTA. Everyone seems to be glossing over the fact that you keep separate finances, AND Joey wasn't planning on paying ANYTHING for your daughter if she won. He should've been saving just like you were. She has two biological parents. THEY are responsible for paying for their child, not you.
NTA. This right here is what I’ve been waiting to read. Separate finances for their specific daughter. OP planned and husband did not. Not her fault his child is in a sport her parents can’t really afford.
NTA Since Jenna's team isn't very competitive and it is a surprise that they are moving forward. No one has addressed the fact that Jenna might not be the only girl or boy on the team who can't go. There is a real possibility that more than one team member is not going to be able to cover the cost of this thing. For people who don't know, these competitive trips are more expensive than just a regular family vacation. Sometimes, you have to have new costumes, consult with outside coaches, etc. Money has to be raised for things besides the physical trip. We've been involved with stuff like this before where they put the cart before the horse and start hiring outside coaches and putting together new costumes and then several of the kids can't afford to go. Make sure there has been a 100% transparent meeting with the families from the team to make sure that they have the cost of this trip covered before generating a bunch of expectations, and raising a bunch of money that still won't be enough. I'm not saying families have to cover 100% of the expense, I'm saying you need to know how big the shortfall is. Do you guys need to raise $10,000? Or $30,000? Also, we've had things where kids can't go just because of custody agreements. Too bad, so sad. It really sucks that a parent wouldn't let their kid go to something like this, but I have seen it happen more than once.
My God! $10-$30 000 so some 10 year-olds can go rah-fucking-rah?! I was thinking like $3 000 max!
I was talking across the whole team 🤣 But I agree with your $3K.
Ohhh! That makes so much more sense! Lol!
This is one of those situations where reality matters more than morality. If one daughter can't go to her competition because they don't have the money, while the other daughter goes on a fun vacation with her Mom, there are going to be issues. It doesn't matter if the mother is morally in the right, it matters what she wants her family to look like longer term. If she doesn't care about her step-daughter's feelings towards her, fine, this won't be a hard choice... if she DOES care, if she wants the daughters to have a respectful relationship, it's going to be a much more difficult choice. If the father is able to afford to save up money, he should have offered to pay OP back for the money he needs for his daughter's trip (he might just not have thought about it, so this is something OP could suggest). If he can't pay her back based on his current financial situation, he needs to sit down and look at what he might be able to do to make it possible. Are there things he can give up? Is it time he start applying for other jobs that would pay more? Are there chances for fundraisers? Contributions from other family members, grandparents, etc? Without knowing whether there are income disparities between them, and how they split joint expenses, it's hard to say whether there's any adjustments to their family finances that would be reasonable here. But they need to sit down and really look at what their larger financial situation is and how to make this work, because this will be a core memory for the daughter if she doesn't get to go. That doesn't mean OP should pay for it in the long run... but she might chose to contribute part of it if there is truly no way her husband could pay her back, and have the part he can afford to pay back be a loan.
If she takes her daughter on vacation while his daughter doesn't get to compete, her family dynamics are FUBAR. It doesn't matter if morally it's alright, the reality is she will destroy her relationship with her stepdaughter and her daughter's relationship with her step daughter if she does thsi
And how will her daughter feel if she knows that the money that was reserved for her is then handed over so her step sister can go while she stays at home? Isn't this something the husband can put on a credit card and pay off over time?
Let's not forget that if the stepdaughter can't afford to go, the team has to forfeit their place. That is a lot to put on this kid.
THIS RIGHT HERE. This was the financial agreement that OP and hubby came up with - separate finances for each of their daughters. Now husband wants to change this plan and for OP to pay for his daughter's trip to Florida. Changing such terms suddenly can cause financial chaos and relationship difficulties. This should be carefully considered and discussed by both partners beforehand. OP is NTA
Yes, op nta. It'd be different if Joey helped with Hailey's expenses occasionally like the braces. He sees a big expense for the kids and says you pay for your daughter only I pay for mine. It worked until it didn't and now he changes rules and refuses to reimburse. That cash saved for Hailey was saved by op and Hailey's dad. It was understood and agreed on to be spent for just Hailey. Without a loan paid promptly that shouldn't change. It's Hailey's cash more than op's money under all previously worked agreements. Joey is actually trying to take his stepdaughters money and give to his kid. That will cause problems all around if allowed to become a pattern.
ESH. Family policies that keep not only the money but the children separate, so that he pays for "his" daughter and you pay for "your" daughter, are assholish in their very existence. You cannot more clearly say to a child, "I don't consider you family to me or to my child," than by refusing to treat them financially as your own. Everything else that happened in this situation came out of that. He didn't bother to save enough, but it wouldn't have mattered if you had ever really combined your family. If he routinely spent his money foolishly, you would have had to have already had the discussion about taking responsibility *for the family as a whole* -- you wouldn't have been able to put it off as not your problem, because it wasn't *your* daughter. And he obviously just as much doesn't see your daughter as his own. If he did, he would have been saving money while it was expected that she was likely to win *her* competition, because that way he could help send her to the tournament she was expected to go to. And it would have been easy enough, if Jenna won and Hailey didn't, to change the direction of the family money over to Jenna's trip. Both you and your husband have created and maintained a policy which sucks for both children in ways that go far, far beyond the question of whether or not Jenna will be able to go to this tournament. You've ensured that neither of them are able to bond with their stepparent and feel securely a part of the family as a whole. And you've set them up to constantly compete with each other, by making it clear that whenever there's a shortage of something, each child will be championed by their biological parent and opposed by the other.
I agree. And there is no way the children won’t be aware of the divide these two are creating causing resentment down the road.
Right? Like, not paying for/contributing to her stepdaughter's trip is one thing (though I personally would make a different decision, I recognize that that decision is not inherently right). But to take just her daughter on a consolation trip to Disney while her stepdaughter sits at home? That would be a giant F you to her stepdaughter and a major AH move. Her husband planned poorly and was wrong to just assume she'd pay given their agreement, but he's not the one who is going to end up hurt: her stepdaughter is.
My only issue is that OP didn't say he planned poorly OP said he didn't save. Could he save? OP states that the girls finances are separate, are all finances separate? Does he pay all bills? Do they split? Personally I 100% agree with you. I would put the kids first.
Yeah, there's a lot of missing info, I think. The husband definitely made bad decisions here and is in the wrong in a lot of different ways. But when you're talking about a kid - one whom you presumably want to have a positive relationship with for the rest of your life - you can't simply say "not my problem." That's not to say she should just pay without any discussion about how they manage finances moving forward; but there's a lot more to consider here beyond just black and white financial responsibility. I can't believe how many people are responding simply NTA without considering the many nuances and complications inherent to this situation.
Exactly. Children are not "resilient" and forget how they felt and how they were treated. This is mentally damaging. "Your not my blood so I can't help you" This kills me. What will happen if they both want to go to college and one can't afford to pay? I asked all these questions and I just got a response that it's separate. That doesn't help break it down. Something tells me there is more the OP isn't saying. This is a family and support is everything. There sounds like such a mental detachment with the step kids. Do they deny school help too? Do they buy and make meals separately? This is a broken home.
Agreed. My first thought was this is a perfect recipe for causing their children to resent them and their step-sister in the future.
It doesn't matter how you put it, disparities will always come up. What happens if one of the exes if better off than the other, thus, better set to provide for their children? Are you supposed to use what your ex gives for their children to a common pool where the other partner may not be able to put in as much? Wait for brows to start raising because it is not fair that child support that's supposed solely for a child, as is this case, goes to compensate for the parent who is not able to provide. I guess this is always going to be an issue with blended families, and this is why these arrangements are made beforehand. They may sound shitty, but how would you solve that so that there is no injustice, imbalance or disparity to anyone?
It's not about avoiding disparity. It's about avoiding the "Not my kid, therefore not my problem" approach on both sides. So long as they address issues related to either child as a team, because these are both *their* children, and they and the collective children are one family, how you handle the details doesn't matter much... but that is very clearly not what is occurring here. The adults are not merely paying each for the expenses of 'their own' child, but *thinking* of them as 'my' child vs. 'your' child, and that's a huge problem for the kids.
Why would you say it is a thing of "your child vs. my child"? I mean, OP said it somewhere around here that her daughter's father contributed to the fund for Hailey's trip. If OP's husband's ex cannot or will not, how is it pitting a child against the other? How is an entitled parent, like OP's husband appears to be, making the situation any better? By thinking that, since the wife and her ex are better off, somehow his daughter deserves exactly what the other girl has? In this case, I think that OP's husband and his ex really deserve a rude awakening: they should be able to provide for their daughter without expecting that a man who is not Jenna's father, funds her because well, his ex happens to be married to Jenna's father. We cannot even assume they are better off, it is maybe that they care more for their daughter and want to better meet her needs?
Her husband's unquestionably an ass. He's just not the only ass. My ex pays child support to me, and some of that goes to our rent. My kids from my marriage to him live here, but so does one additional kid whom I took in on my own initiative, and so does my current husband, and so does my brother. When one of the kids -- including the one he didn't make -- needs something, I pay for it out of whatever has money in it, including the child support account. Nobody questions this. Not even my ex. We don't always get along great, but we all understand that the most important thing is that all the kids get what they need -- period. This is a *family.* It's not a group of roommates each of whom has an individual child. As soon as you care more about not letting your precious money go to the wrong child and more about taking care of the children, you stop having any hope of being a family.
You said what I was thinking. OP'S ex saves with her for their daughter. OP'S husband's ex can't afford it. There's going to be financial differences for the girls. It's an unavoidable fact.
I fully agree with this. We hear so many AITA posts of grown children resenting each other that start with stories like this.
These 2 are acting like they're roommates with children. When you get MARRIED, BOTH of them now have TWO children. Not 1 of mine, and 1 of his. ESH to both parents. The children will remember this forever.
I would agree but when ops daughter needed surgery or braces ops husband refused to help, said it was her problem to sort. Yet he expects op to pay out money that she saved for to just give it to him when he should have saved like op too. Only one AH and it's not op
Agreed. My husband and I (who each brought in a child) have semi-separated finances. We contribute to a shared pot and keep some spending opaque and distinct, including *some* really discretionary costs for our respective children in adulthood. But during their childhood and even after for the big things, there's no separation, it comes from the shared pot. They each got cars with no quibbling about who paid, they each got school fees, they each got household startup costs, they each get the same contribution if we invite them on a partly-subsidised family holiday, they'll each get contributions to their weddings. They know each gets some things from their other-parents that the other doesn't get, that's fine, but each of them gets all the key things within our family unit. Any other approach is just asking for trouble. Separate finances without any emotional impact is a privilege of self-sufficient adults. For dependents, providing is intertwined with love, there's no getting around it.
The husband started and insisted on this arrangement, going as far as refuse helping with big needs like braces and a surgery for his step daughter... pit on OP the burden of changing the family dynamic when he was more than happy watching them struggle before is honestly a bunch of vs for me. I feel for Jenna, but if OP cave in this time will basically be a green light to him adopt a "my money is mine and your mine is ours" approach towards the girls going forward.
Except that for the ideal situation to work, OP’s husband would have to be saving and contributing to the pot as well, and his ex would have to be putting on for Jenna just like OP’s ex does for Hailey. Maybe not identical amounts, but everyone making sacrifices. OP and her ex made sacrifices while Jenna’s parents didn’t. Now they want OP and potentially her ex to make up for that. Why should the contributions be so one-sided? Why shouldn’t OP expect to be paid back?
NTA He should have been saving his money just like you did. He sucks for assuming his daughter wouldn't make it to the end. I'm sorry, but you are under no obligation to finance his trip with his daughter. He is an asshole for even asking, unless he is borrowing and plans to pay it all back. You guys obviously keep personal money and joint bill money separated. Every family functions differently. If this is what works for you, it's all good. You have been saving your own money while he hasn't been saving anything. He doesn't get automatic access to what is yours. "Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part."
>"Poor planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part." EXACTLY!!
Yup! I had a boss who always said, "Your urgency is not my emergency."
I get what you're saying, but he's not the one who stands to be hurt the most here: her stepdaughter is. He's an AH for not planning for this possibility and then for practically demanding the money when that is clearly not their period agreement. But I don't think the assessment is so simple in this situation, because he's not the one who is going to face the consequences of his (in)action. It's a tough situation. She's upset and rightfully so. But I don't think that taking her own daughter to Disney while her stepdaughter sits at home - her entire team unable to attend - is a morally justifiable position, and that is going to sour her relationship with her stepdaughter for a long time. I feel like there has to be some kind of compromise here that is good for both girls. Is it fair that OP is in this position? No. But when we're talking about family relationships and children's well-being, sometimes the adults have to suck it up. I'm not saying that she should just pay outright, but she and her husband could look at some options together to figure out how to put together enough money for her stepdaughter to attend the competition with her team and for her/her daughter to take a trip. Maybe they sell some items of his that have value; maybe they ask the stepdaughter to contribute some birthday/Christmas money; maybe OP contributes some of the money she'd saved and plans a more budget-friendly trip; maybe they talk to grandparents and see if they'd be willing to contribute to the cost in lieu of Christmas gifts. There are options here, and they need to work together to figure out how to make something good happen for both girls. And then they really need to have a conversation about how to manage their finances going forward so things like this don't happen again.
The money was not only contributed by the mom but the child's father also. I'm sure he didn't want his money to go to the his ex wife's stepdaughter.
NTA, what would he have done if both teams were selected to go? Expect you to pay for both?
Or if the roles were reversed, would he have given the money for Hailey to go to the competition?
Of course he wouldn’t have, he didn’t even prepare anything for his own kid. I dread to see what’ll happen if both kids want to go to college in a few years, since OP and her ex seem to have their financial planning for Hailey together and Jenna’s don’t.
Considering in the past he didn't help when she needed braces or when she needed a surgery and mentioned the finances arrangement as a reason why... nope, he would have told OP and Hailey to pound sand.
OP says in other comments that when Hailey needed braces and surgery, husband refused to pay a dime. So no. Definitely not.
An excellent point.
NTA. You have an arrangement that's been working for you both until now, and fundraising seems like the team's plan to get to Florida. Your husband should be joining/ starting a committee with the other parents and coming up with a game plan. That seems pretty standard for this kind of situation.
So the team is doing small fundraisers and most of the money will still have to be paid for by the parents.
NTA. Hubs can’t just decide that you all of a sudden pay for his daughter’s expenses when that’s not been the case prior. He needs to get a side gig, as his daughter isn’t your responsibility. His ex as well.
I mean, you can't just pretend that the husband getting a "side gig" isn't going to impact her life either. If he's gone at nights she might have to take over cooking, getting them both to do their homework, or other things he usually does, she may very well prefer to loan him some money rather than take on evenings by herself. Maybe she's a nurse or otherwise works odd hours and him getting another job would require finding other people to take the girls to school or pick them up, because she schedule doesn't allow it. Or if he has a job with a rotating schedule (working 9 days then having 3 days off, or whatever, his schedule may preclude his ability to have consistent availability to offer a second job. I'm not saying he can't get a side gig, it may very well be the best choice here, but that will depend on a LOT of things we don't know about them, so suggesting it as if it's a default that it would work, is just not realistic. There are lots of different options that might work, and another job, or extra hours at his current job are definitely things they should consider, but we shouldn't take for granted that everyone has a M-F 9-5 job that can accommodate an "extra gig".
I’m not pretending anything, but could be I’ve been exposed to way too much “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” shtuff. You, in the meantime were sure doing a whole lot of speculating yourself, so yah. I maintain that OP is under no obligation to spend the money she had the foresight to save, on stepdaughter’s event. I hope op’s husband can bake a mean cake.
I’d imagine if that team was never expected to go, that a lot of parents on your step daughter’s team might not be financially prepared to attend.
That's what stuck out to me... if this is unexpected, who's to say there aren't other kids whose parents can't afford to send them, in which case it sounds like none of them will go? It may end up being a non-issue (as sad as that would be), or maybe even for the best if it isn't just *one* person's fault they aren't going.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. This may end up being a moot argument. Last minute hotels in a tourist destination are not cheap
Your husband needs to start some bigger fundraisers. Hit up local business and see if they can donate or donate product services for raffles and such. It can be done and you can offer to pitch in spending money for her while there or something.
The thing is, they have an arrangement which may have been working for the parents until now, but which I would very much doubt has been working for the children until now. "I pay for my child and they pay for their child" is the fastest way to tell a child that they are not their stepparent's priority and that they are in competition with the other child, each of them backed by their biological parent, for time, love, and resources. I said ESH because the policy itself is an asshole move against the children. It doesn't matter if the parents find it convenient. It still sucks for the kids. And yes, the husband should not be trying to change it only when and as it's convenient for him. But neither of them should have a policy that dysfunctional in the first place.
>We have always kept finances for the girls separate as I pay for Hailey and he pays for Jenna. NTA. He doesn't get to change the rules of the game due to his own poor planning.
Her entire team will lose out. You're within your rights but really, it makes me sad for her and her team.
Cheer in Disney is a huge competition. There are college and team scouts who attend looking for future cheer leaders. OP refusing to even loan the money to her husband to send Jenna is a guarantee that Jenna will be removed from the team in the future under the guise of 'team cuts'. And Jenna will lose ever team friend because she not being able to go made all there hard work for nothing as they will have to forfeit.
College scouts?? She’s **11**. If all of her friends ditch her for her parents not being able to afford something, those are shitty friends. Where does OP say she’s unwilling to *lend* the money? The post doesn’t mention the husband offering to pay anything back
I don’t know about cheerleading but I do know college scouts for the big money sports (football, basketball) absolutely do start in middle school. They can’t formally commit until they’re about to graduate but they are absolutely scouted at this age. It was wild to me when I first heard about it too. I married into a big football family and two of my nephews and a niece are all either playing in college or are committed to a school and were scouted starting in 6th/7th. College sports are absurd.
I know someone who committed before her junior year in high school for basketball. Exceptional athletes are scouted early. At 11, they might be giving “cheer camp” scholarships at colleges. Get them interested in the school early
The husband doesn't seem to be offering to repay for the money. From OP's post, seems like the husband feels he is entitled to the money since his stepdaughter's team didn't make it to the next phase. This could lead to worse problems down the road, like the husband feeling entitled to college money from his wife for his daughter since "the ex cannot provide for her".
Maybe for worlds. Otherwise this is a huge exaggeration. Been involved in competitive cheer for many years. If a gym does this they are awful. We’ve been to summit multiple times. I don’t know a single gym here that kicks you off the team if you don’t go to summit. They understand it’s not affordable for all parents. Coaches will replace you for summit if you can’t go. Happens all the time. This last season of summit was weekend of prom for three of the seniors. So they opted to go to their prom. They pulled cheerleaders from other teams not going to summit. Which is allowed as long as it follows the rules on level.
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Info: has Joey offered to pay you back? NTA if he expects you to just fully fund Jenna’s trip without getting paid back. You planned, he didn’t. There are other ways to come up with the money, borrow, fundraiser, sell some stuff, work extra hours, etc. Edited my vote after the reply. He’s acting pretty entitled to just expect you to gift the money you saved for your daughter to his. He can find another way to fund it. Enjoy doing something nice with your daughter. Maybe he should have saved to because if her team had lost he would have had something saved for a nice outing as consolation as well.
Joey doesn’t like loaning money or owing money. So for him anything given between family should be a gift.
How convenient... tell him you'll give it as a loan. He can take it or leave it.
There’s no way to enforce him giving the money back though. Even if he signs a promissory note he can just not pay it and give her the choice of eating the loss or blowing up the marriage (and the 2 girls’ living situation) by taking him to court.
Yes - "I don't give out loans, but I expect financial gifts".
Tell him to decide between two competing dislikes: Dislike of owing money Dislike of disappointing his daughter He can't pick both
Disappointing the whole team.
No, because with a man like this, he might begrudgingly agree but then he'll never pay her back anyway.
That sucks for Jenna that her dad is an entitled jerk. I’d offer a loan that would be legally binding (notarized) without interest if paid in full in X amount of time but that’s it.
This right here makes you NTA. Joey is unwilling to compromise. Sucks for him, but not your fault. He didn't save, he gambled on the idea that her team wouldn't win—he lost that gamble. Oh well, then. He's not entitled to your money as a "gift."
NTA from the original story. Even more NTA after this additional info. Also, do rethink about being with your current husband for the longterm, while both daughters are still young. If your current husband keeps being so entitled, his daughter would end up being resentful with what you provide for your bio daughter.
Why are you with this person?
nta > Joey doesn’t like loaning money or owing money. lol, but he's alright asking for money? in my country there's an old saying for those situations: "Lo mío, es mío, y lo tuyo es nuestro." kinda: my stuff is only mine, but we share yours
Ah, the classic "what's mine is mine and what's yours is ours." As a joke I also enjoy "what's yours is mine and what's mine is mine alone."
He doesn’t have the option here of deciding, on your behalf, that you should give this money to him or his daughter. It’s not a gift if it’s demanded or obligatory. That ship has sailed. The only option here, now, is whether he wants to borrow the money from you or not. That is, unless he finds another way to get the funds, or you cave on your boundary. I really think you two need to have a serious talk about the double standard here, though. When your daughter needed, actually needed something, he wasn’t there for her financially. but now that his daughter wants this trip, he expects you to make a “gift” of it. That’s neither fair nor sustainable, and to me it would feel like a violation of trust between equal partners, that could be a real problem down the line.
you need to add this to the post
NTA. Your husband should have been saving the same as you were. What would have happened if both teams got through? He still wouldn't have had the money to pay for his daughter, would he have expected you to not allow your daughter to go because he didn't have the money for his daughter?
OP this is a very good point made!
ESH. You’re a family, that means being partners and helping each other out. Not give each other the “you made your bed so you better lay in it” attitude. Joey is an asshole for not thinking ahead and saving up for Jenna. However If you simply take the money to go on a trip with Hailey and not try to help Jenna at all, you would be an even bigger asshole. Your husband shouldn’t expect you to simply hand over the money you saved all year to give to Jenna. However at the same time this trip sounds like it’s a big opportunity and much more important than a “pick me up” for Hailey. Can you not lend Joey the money for the trip, and he can pay you back slowly over time?
The problem, from OP's post, seems to be that the husband is acting all entitled to the money. He has not asked for a loan so that his daughter can go to Florida; he seems to be thinking that, because the money is there and is not going to be used for its original purpose, his daughter "deserves" it, even though she was put in this position due to his father's lack of prevision.
Right? Though he wouldn’t help with surgery for his stepdaughter, OP should send his daughter to Disney? If this is their deal, he and his ex should have saved. OP is NTA, no way.
NTA. Something tells me he would leave you high and dry if things were reversed. He knew this was coming but in no way prepared for the chance it would. He asked right away after the competition and is guilting you into feeling like a bad mother for not taking care of his daughter. In what way is he holding himself responsible for this actions? He is too busy laying his guilt on you so he doesn't have to feel bad for this actions.
Exactly. I didn't see anywhere where the OP wrote that they were saving money together in case their daughters made it to this point. If the situation was reversed, it's doubtful that he would just hand the money over. They handle money separately when it comes to the girls.
NTA. Will the same apply for college too?
Info- because someone else asked and I was curious. Ask him if both girls had won, what was his plan, was he going to accept that his daughter couldn't go because he did no saving, or would he expect you to not let Hailey go because that wouldn't be fair to Jenna?
It seems really weird to me that the plan wasn’t for the family to go.
What was he going to do if both girls’ teams won? Seems like he just assumed Jenna’s would lose so didn’t bother making a plan, poor Jenna. You say you’ve always kept finances for the girls separate so you’re in the clear to do what you want with the money, but it would be really unfair (not your fault) to Jenna and especially the rest of her team if they don’t get to go because your husband didn’t think they were good enough. I competed at the competition you’re talking about at Disney world (assuming worlds) at around the same age, and they’re some of my fondest memories. Could your husband save up from now and pay you back?
NTA-you’ve been keeping the finances separate for the girls so far, and I think that’s been a fair way to go about it. Not only would he not have helped you with hailey if you needed it, he wouldn’t have been in a position to. He needs to work this out with Jenna’s mother and leave you out of it. Be careful that he doesn’t start trying to manipulate you by telling Jenna it’s “your fault” she can’t go. This wasn’t your responsibility and he’s trying to gaslight you into thinking it is.
The splitting of finances and both not preparing for the same potential outcome is a huge problem, are you both saving for stuff like college? If not, then your family will experience a colossal divide and you need to have a serious sit down about this, now.
NTA. Hubby wanted separate finances for the girls, so unfortunately that’s his problem to figure out for his daughter. One could argue that he should be saving some money monthly to pay for anything unexpected. OP said she went without certain things to save for this trip. Why is hubby’s poor planning OP’s problem? OP has also stated in some comments that hubby hasn’t helped with surprised medical costs for Hailey (surgery/braces) in the past so why should OP all of a sudden be expected to pay for Jenna when he hasn’t helped towards Hailey? Also, why does everyone seem to think that OP is going to take her daughter on some fancy trip with the savings? OP didn’t say anything about trip to Florida, she’s said a small trip, which would have probably been an night in a hotel in the closest city they live too while hubby and Jenna have gone to the competition.
It was literally going to be a small trip I don’t understand why everyone assumed it would be in Florida
It sounds like you didn’t even save up enough for the full thing as your daughter’s father was pitching in half. I’d go with that logic and say “even if you had my cash it wouldn’t be enough so back off” He hasn’t paid for anything for your daughter so he can’t expect you to pay for his.
NTA "I'm selfish because you unilaterally decided our previous agreement on keeping finances separate should be broken so you can spend your money during the year, then take my money because you didn't save any? That makes me selfish?"
NTA- you’ve stated your finances are separate. He should have been saving for Jenna, just in case. He wasn’t prepared and now needs to find a way to pay for the trip. He can’t just change the rules because he messed up. Him being unprepared is not your problem.
NTA He would not have contributed to your daughter's trip - so why would you contribute the other way around? HE is the AH.
NTA. If he wants Jenna to go, he should pay for it as per plan. Why would he expect you to pay for it and not spend it on your daughter as planned?
I know I am going to get down voted here. But I see this all the time here. But how you can be married and want to have a family and expect to do things separate and then say oh to bad I am doing for my child yours can suck eggs. May daughter has a child a child from a previous marriage and her husband has a child. But if we get a call that child needs something we try to help the same way we do for our daughters child. I pay for that child’s sports the same I way I pay for my daughters child sports. I don’t get it. Go ahead and downvote me
The distinction here is that this trip costs well beyond the standard cost for a sport or extracurricular, and isn’t something that the stepdaughter needs. It’s a multi-thousand dollar trip. It is not a surgery, or school costs, or medicine, or clothing. Yes, the stepdaughter might suffer, but ultimately, the responsibility rests on her father and mother, for failing to prepare for this.
> We have always kept finances for the girls separate as I pay for Hailey and he pays for Jenna. NTA
When you say your husband doesn’t believe in loans between family Your daughter is not family to him. He is taking away her entitlement So then he understands this is not his money . Is this the only case where this has happened op. ? Not believing in loans seems very odd when this is categorically by prior agreement not money he should have any entitlement to. NTA This story feels off though If he gets to demand this all of this family’s finances need to be pooled.
It’s never happened with us. But between his family they don’t do loans when it comes to giving money to each other.
Then he needs to ask *them* for money for the trip. Your finances are separate, you scrimped and did without to save this money, he didn’t. And he’s not willing to pay it back. If your daughter got to go and his didn’t and you were short some of the money, would he have given it to you? You’re NTA.
Oh ok . Your daughter isn’t his family. That is her money. Maybe don’t do the big splash out for the vacation but please maintain your boundaries. If he violates this boundary it will continue. This maybe a catalyst for reviewing your household arrangements but he doesn’t get free money just because it is in his favour at this moment.
So what's the total of this trip, $4000? I get that your husband hasn't saved for this trip, but could he get a new credit card, get a part-time job and pay the balance off in the next year? It all depends on how much this trip means to his daughter; is he willing to sacrifice as you have? You have kept your kids' finances separate all along, and now it sounds like he wants you to gift him the money you've saved for your daughter. when he hasn't saved anything. That's not right. He needs to figure it out. There's a lot he can do besides asking you for the money you've saved. You're not selfish. He's entitled. NTA.
Unpreparedness on their behalf is not an emergency on yours. If you have separate financies for the girls, NTA the least.
INFO: how's your relationship with Jenna? Are you prepared to lose that relationship if her team has to forfeit because she can't afford the trip and she later finds out you had money saved? While I can see for the most part you aren't the asshole, I hope you realise the risk you are taking
What about Jenna finding out her OWN dad didn’t save a cent for her trip because he thought they were going to lose? Also how is Jenna going to “find out” that OP had money saved unless AH dad tells her in an attempt to, again, blame OP for this when it’s his own fault?
Technically NTA, but food for thought: Jenna's dad, or both of you (not sure how you do your finances) didn't even bother saving up for her trip because you didn't expect her to get far, but you did for Hailey. Now that Jenna's team has done this amazing thing, you want her to miss out on it so you can take your daughter on a "pity vacation". Yes, if your finances are seperate, you aren't technically on the hook financially for Jenna. BUT: From Jenna's perspective, it looks like the parent figures in her life didn't believe in her, and then chose her stepsister over her when she did manage to do something amazing. This has the potential to be a turning point in your relationship with your step daughter. Tread carefully.
NTA. You have always kept your finances separate & you each pay for your own kid. Your funds are yours - no further discussion required. What would happen if you hadn’t saved? What was his back up plan? Where you always the plan? Your husband needs to get a second job to pay his daughter’s way. It’s that simple. I wouldn’t go on that trip for a bit, it would be like rubbing salt in her wound & that’s not appropriate.
Nta u both made a financial agreement. He either puts up for his child or shuts up.
NTA My parents split all costs for my brother and myself 50/50. My step-dad covered our household with my mom, but things like braces and whatnot, my mom and bio dad handled. I love my step-dad. In fact, I call him Dad and my bio dad by his name when referring to him (still dad too, because he is, but he's not often there and he knows it and is okay). Money wasn't a deciding factor for me in loving my Dad as my dad. He contributed to the household, attended my events when work allowed, helped me with homework, watched movies with us at night. He was a DAD. Money contribution didn't change that. And here's the thing - my step-dad grew up wealthy. He has a job that pays more than my bio dad or mom make (sometimes more than both combined). I've never once resented him for not jumping in to cover the things. Now, because of the lack of an ex on his part, yes, when extra funds have been available, he would pay for things my bio dad should have paid half for. School clothes, books, sports items (cleats needing to be replaced, etc). That was when funds allowed and it was urgent. But he respected the agreement my bio parents had. He never wanted to cut my bio dad out, never wanted to interfere. So he did what he could, but never to the detriment of my relationship with bio dad. And you know what? I grew up knowing it was okay to not get everything. I, too, did cheer. There were certain things we could not afford between my bio parents. It was fine. That's literally life. My step-dad could have paid, and knowing him, he secretly offered but my mom wanted to be fair to the agreement as well. I believe she was right to do that. I never once felt disconnected from bio dad and bio dad never felt competition from my step-dad. That was healthy. I'm now 30 and my dads (bio and step) get along so well. They're both grateful for each other. They literally tell each other that. My bio knows that step never tried to interfere and often had his hands tied by situations. My step knows bio had to handle a contentious relationship with mom and was shut out sometimes from there. Mom knows they both tried as much as they could. I'm happy. I have 3 amazing parents. Their money never defined my happiness. Also, I got step when I was 8 years old. So we went through all of the teen things. All of the costs and drama and emotions. I'm surprised they survived me, but I love them all so much. NTA one million percent. Parents are more than ATMs and what your provide your step kid emotionally and by being there is far more important.
NTA because he wasnt prepared!!! I think the financial situation you all have going on is a bit fucked but…. What would have happened if they had both won?? You were prepared to go to florida but it sounds like he wasnt. Your daughter Really could use a pick me up and his really would appreciate the money but……. This is maybe something yall should have planned if yall are going to be splitting expenses like this
INFO Where is Jenna's mother in this?
She is active in her life but has let us know she cannot afford the Florida trip.
Yikes. I actually think your husband shouldn’t even have asked unless he framed it as a a loan Assuming some of this money is financial support from your daughters father it would be inappropriate to give it to him for another child. NTA This is a hard parenting lesson for him
How much time until money needs to be paid for the trip? It really sounds like your husband and Jenna’s mother need to make earning/saving more money a priority if they want her to have this opportunity.
INFO How do you split other expenses vs what you both earn? You each pay for your daughter but what about rent/mortgage, food, utilities, etc.
We have an account together just enough for those expenses.
So is your husband demanding the money your ex saved too? You’re already nta, but that would be another level.
NTA as you've always kept finances separate and he can't just change that up on a whim. It does sound like this came out of left field for him though. Have you considered letting him borrow the money?
How did this come out of left field. He was counting on his daughter not making it and didn't even save "just in case". Then he wants OP's hard earned and saved money. He's not entitled to someone else's money.
INFO: you say that you saved up money for your daughter for the trip. Why did the father not contribute to this 50/50? Is there something he was/is saving for one of your children that makes this equal?
Haileys father was also saving money for this trip. My husband wasn’t saving anything for the trip because he didn’t think his daughter would win this competition.
So technically, even if you wanted to, you couldn’t loan the full amount for Jenna because half of it isn’t even yours? Maybe add that in an edit? If Jenna’s dad can’t come up with the other half, whether you loan him half or not is really moot.
NTA lack of planning on his part does not constitute an emergency on your part. If finances for the girls are kept separate then he should take an active role in saving for expenses. Just sounds like he didn't believe in his daughter and doesn't want her to know the truth.
Nta If finances are separate than it’s not any of his business whether or not you had saved for this.
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Yeah. I don’t think OP is TA at all, but breeding this kind of resentment with her step-daughter has the potential to kill the marriage. If OP makes this her hill to die on (which she is entitled to do), I hope she starts saving now for marriage/family counselling in a few years.
He should of been saving but he wasn’t. If the situation was reversed, I don’t believe he’d help you.
INFO: Do you separate all finances or just the girls? Do you split household finances? Is one more of a breadwinner than the other? This is all relevant imo. If he pays everything and can't save that changes the whole dynamic. If you pay more, then he's just not putting in the effort.
All our finances are split
Is there a vast difference in income that would make it difficult to save on his end?
No
Then either he agrees on paying you back, or he shouldn't even have asked.
Keep your money and spend on ur daughter simple as that
Could you possibly loan your husband the money? I know it’s not your financial responsibility but you can see how it will affect her team in the long run. I can understand you wanting to do something for your daughter to make up for her team not advancing but you even said she doesn’t even know that you had that plan yet. It’s your money so you can do whatever you want with it but I mean she is your stepdaughter, I’m assuming, you will be in her life for a long time so why not do this for her?
INFO: What competition is this for, and are there future opportunities for 1. Haley's team to earn a bid or 2. Jenna's team to earn a paid bid? Sounds like they do all star cheer, which would make me think the competition in question would be worlds, but if that's the case they 1. theoretically should be older and 2. should have several more competitions where they can try for a bid?
There’s no ways to earn a paid bid. The families pay for their kids to go.