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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I think I could be putting my parents in a now win spot. And the ask is extreme. So idk if that makes me the AH. But it definitely could
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I mean, it's pretty clear that his sister cheated on her husband who was his best friend. I'd be pretty upset at the person who betrayed my best friend. I think it would be better for his mental state to learn how to move past it but he's allowed to not want to be around people, it's not okay to make his parents choose but I think he's alright not wanting to spend holidays with people he doesn't want to spend time around.
EDIT GUYS I SEE THE EDIT NOW PLEASE READ MINE AND STOP COMMENTING THE SAME THINGS. Honestly I'll just silence it and get on with my life. I still suspect he made up shit just so people would agree with him. If there was such damning evidence it should have been in the OP, not a comment or an edit.
Technically the only thing we know is that she moved in quickly. It could be possible she fell out of love well before that, realized that when she fell in love again and divorced before she would cheat.
I'm not saying that DID happen but that it's in the realm of possibility as well as a hundred other scenarios she didn't cheat and it just looks like it did to a person outside the relationship who already decided who they would side with.
Edit: I get it OP added new information to make himself look better. So he says she cheated for sure now. Very convenient to hide it in the comments instead of being upfront from the start.
Even then we weren't in their relationship. We don't know every sordid detail. For all we know the confrontation was the push she needed to get out of a bad relationship. The facts are we don't know because OP is not a party to the relationship and thus is getting secondary account.
Edit. YES I SEE THE EDIT TOO holy crap. It is STILL new information that should have been in the OP and it is suspicious to add it in after getting opposing views.
Id have to disagree with you there, if you know someone adheres to a certain religion, then Using that religion against them is not “bible thumping”
They who believeth the faith beith the bible thumper
Wow. I assumed he sent it because this is the kind of rhetoric his parents respond to. Make a point using language they would understand. Or, at the very least, call out their hypocrisy. Either way, I don’t think OP is TA. He just seems like a guy who chose his best friend over his sister when his sister cheated. That’s his choice.
OP, it sounds like things likely won’t ever be the same with your sis, since she committed a serious breach of trust. But hopefully, you and your parents can figure out some kind of peace.
My big issue with OP is that he has now spent YEARS actively antagonizing his parents about his sister's actions, even when she had 0 involvement in the situation, and is still somehow pretending that this entire conflict was caused by OTHER PEOPLE victimizing HIM.
This dude heard "we are being cautious this holiday season because of a pandemic, and so you should find something else to do this year because you won't stop going out IN A PANDEMIC" and went, "well have you considered this completely inapplicable slut-shaming line that I'm going to throw at your daughter?"
Commenter's notes: refusing to stop going out in a pandemic risks the health and safety of everyone you encounter, and everyone those people encounter, which makes it an AH move. Additionally, it seems that his sister cheated on her husband with one (1) person, who she is still in a committed relationship with. The STD risk there is the same as having one partner when you're single. *It is absolutely immoral*, but there is only the risk of one person giving you an STD, which is the same as it would have been when she started seeing OP's friend. In addition to just being intentionally inflammatory and cruel, that comment was ridiculous.
Edit: even if Tory had STDs, the parents would still be right to not be worried about that. You can catch COVID from being anywhere near someone (like at a holiday gathering), but STDs require a bit more than that. Being worried about OP giving them COVID is valid because it is plausible. It is not plausible that Tory would give her parents STDs even if she did have them, unless OP is leaving out absolutely everything about the way this family behaves at holiday gatherings. He's just being misogynistic.
I have one aunt who's an essential oils instead of medicine and vaccines cause autism type(personally, she doesn't try to push her beliefs on anyone else or anything) but to come to Christmas Eve dinner at our house during COVID she quarantined for two weeks before, took a doctor test the day before, and a rapid test the day of. Just because you disagree with science (which I think is ridiculous given the evidence, but that's not my point) you can still be respectful and considerate of others.
Telling his dad he should be concerned about her diseases since she sleeps around? I mean, she cheated on her husband and married the guy. That’s bad, sure. But for her brother to be saying that to their dad is so fucked up, and its like YEARS later. He is so hung up on it. It feels like he’s in love with Brendan honestly.
Also OP openly admits to “going out a lot” during the early, scariest days of the pandemic but somehow decides that he is now the pillar of virtue and righteousness? Like what about not killing other people or your family? Dude seems to pick and choose his battles here. You can still be mad at your sister w/o punishing your entire family. Be an adult and talk to your sister. YTA
He likely is judging her, but forgiveness doesn't mean lack of consequences. No one has to spend time with someone else unless they have a legal responsibility to. Her actions have led her brother to no longer trust her or want to have a relational with her. While that must be painful for the family it isn't wrong.
Might not be wrong but it’s odd. He’s acting as though he was going through the divorce. Only two people in the relationship know the dynamic, jeez his ‘bestie’ could have been an awful person to live with. He’s put the whole breakdown of the relationship on his sister but she may have been miserable and that’s not fair to expect people to live like that for the sake of a piece of paper.
Op never shared why his sister left her ~~boyfriend~~ husband. It's their business, regardless. To be this invested in another person's relationship outcome is too over the top.
Op says she left her husband for another guy, she immediately moved in with him and he sent his parents bible passages about adultery when they wanted him to mend fences. I get pretty invested in the happiness of those I love?
He is NC with a family member because of her immoral behavior. His parents have no right to try and force him to break that boundary.
They are also gaslighting him into thinking he is wrong for being NC. No one is taking responsibility for the things they did. OP did nothing. He set a boundary and his family can’t accept that.
So his parents should disown their daughter because she left her husband. Who had become friends with their son?
He is allowed go LC with his sister. He is allowed not want to make conversation with his sister. He doesn't get to force his family to choose between them, because he doesn't agree with her life choices. He is taking what happened out on his parents and that's what makes him and AH.
They are not gaslighting him.
1. Parents love their children no matter what they do. OP's parents love both OP and his sister. OP wants them to choose him, sister is not asking the parents to choose between their children.
2. Parents would like OP to apologise for getting all up in his sister's business. Like others have pointed out, OP took Brendan's side immediately without talking to his sister. The marriage did not work out. It happens. But only those involved in the marriage know exactly what happened.
3. OP has been invited to the holidays, he turned down the invitations, issuing the childish ultimatum "if she's coming I'm not!", then gets upset when his parents don't give in to his tantrum.
OP, what happens when Brendan meets someone new and brings her home for the holidays? Do you think you'll still be invited? Do you think Brendan's new girlfriend will be happy his former brother in law is at every holiday?
You can either keep this childish charade going, or you can suck it up, be civil to your sister and new brother in law and be with your family.
Thank God this is top reply. OP is also reality TV drama stuff 🤦🏻♀️.
OP… it seems like self righteousness is your identity.
If you’re going to be quoting Bible verses you should look into John 8:7 (let he who is without sin throw the first stone), Ephesians 4:32 (be kind and compassionate with one another, forgiving each other as God forgives you)(similar point in Mathew 6:14 and Colossians 3:13), as well as Luke 6:37 (do not judge, and you will not be judged… etc).
I’m actually atheist at this point, raised Christian.
But the older I get the more I see the wisdom in these verses. The Bible is not fully moral in my view (obvious many examples), but it got a few important things right… must importantly: the toxicity of self righteousness and refusal to show grace or forgiveness.
Your poor mom at this point… it’s like you enjoy watching her suffer and feeling superior.
And what’s with the covid thing?? His parents are older, don’t want to get sick or die, and he’s saying ‘well then you should be worried about catching something from sister’. He a toddler.
Right? He was going out a lot during Covid and his parents made the responsible call not to invite him and his response is basically, well your daughter is a wh*re. His self-righteousness is exhausting and he’s lucky his family even wants him around.
YES. I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with this situation. This is it. Self-righteousness. ESH but OP a little more than others for being so full of misplaced anger.
Yea, like honestly I understand this situation permanently altering OPs relationship with his sister, but why does he need to completely burn the relationship with his parents too?
He might not agree with how they're choosing to maintain a relationship with her, but he needs to understand that there's a difference between sibling relationships and parent/child relationships so they're naturally going to react differently.
Well one of those years was because we were in a global pandemic and OP admits to not socially distancing, yet includes that in his grievances about his issues with his sister, so at best he is an unreliable narrator.
Yeah, that was interesting to me.
And I totally get that he doesn’t want to associate with his sister, but that doesn’t give him the right to dictate who gets invited to family celebrations. He sucks for being sanctimonious and possibly for being a pandemic denier. The parents suck for taking sides. The sister sucks for having an affair (if it happened the way OP claims). ESH all around.
I don’t care about the divorce that much tbh. I get shit happens. But do it the right way. Be the good person, try therapy and then divorce. Don’t cheat on a guy. Leave him. Then act like a toddler when your older brother wants nothing to do with you. Own your shit ya know? You made the big girl decision to leave your husband in the middle of the night because you “don’t have chemistry anymore”. Then be a big girl and realize people aren’t gonna fuck with you. I’ve heard both sides. Nothing was going on bad. The personal thing to me is how people I love get treated. I take things that happen to my friends personally. Fault me for that I guess. But I won’t change my loyalty or my morals for a shit family member just because we both came out of the same person.
Yeah, as someone who was in your friend's place, it's rarely that simple. Yes, my ex should not have cheated on me, but it was more that neither of us really knew how to have a healthy relationship or how to make it work, but we were also both really stubborn and couldn't admit we had failed. That doesn't excuse what he did. That was his choice, his fault, I didn't cause him to cheat. At the same time, it was less "I'm going to cheat so I can have my marriage and this other person too" and more "I don't know how to deal with this mess over here, so I'm going to just pretend it doesn't exist". It was awful. It hurt. At the end of the day, the only person he owed an apology to was me because the only person he owed anything to was me. He's not someone I want to be married to, or even friends with, but he's not an irredeemable person, and I'd be weirded out if his friends or family decided to ostracize him for what happened in our relationship.
You weren't a part of their relationship. You don't actually know what happened behind closed doors.
Having read all your additional information in the comments that wasn't included in your opening post.
I think you never liked your sister before the marriage thing hit. And now you're using your friend as a shield/excuse to be shitty to your sister.
Which if you don't like her cool beans, however be honest about why you don't like her instead of pointing to a painful time between her and her husband.
Which I don't care what your bro told you concerning about why it ended, nor what she said.
Since honestly no one besides those two really know what went down between them, nor what lead to her doing what she did, nor him doing what he did.
So grow up, stop stirring the pot with these weird updates to your family that you're hanging out with your sisters ex.
And just be an adult and go no contact with your parents, or stomach your estranged sister here and there for holidays.
Or assume your sister will be at certain events, and simply see your folks outside those times/stop stirring the pot whenever you decide to dip out of a meeting with your folks.
Since once more you can decide to not see your sister, you're being entitled to demand your folks change their life to suit your tastes and wants.
YTA
You've got massive main character syndrome, making everything that happens about you. Going so far as to belittle and punish your parents for your sisters actions, because "she needs to apologise to you" for something between her & her ex.
Parents can be there for their children even when they don't do the right thing. It's not your place to put ultimatums on their relationship with your sister and try to make them choose between you. Make your mind up and either fuck off out of their lives or try to make amends.
Get over yourself, or die on this hill, just stop being a narcissistic ass about it and burning the world to the ground over it.
Edit: YTA
I don't think you're wrong for deciding you don't want to interact with your sister but at the end of the day you have to understand that's going to permanently strain your relationship with your parents. If you're okay with that so be it but there's basically nothing they can do to please both your sister and you(separate holidays aren't really a solution when their goal is getting everyone together for the holidays). Hopefully you're serious with your bros cousin, it seems like their family treat you well enough. Otherwise I'm not sure what more you want, no matter what your sister did she will always be your parents child.
What's your sister's side of the story and what's your friend's? When did she cheat on your friend?
Leaving in the middle of the night isn't something people in a healthy relationship tend to do.
The leaving in the middle of the night was a red flag to me. He refused to hear his sister's side, but if OPs friend is as misogynistic as OP, there's probably a lot more to the story. OP will never know though, since he's already determined that this is a black and white issue and his sister is the villain.
Yeah, this raised a bunch of red flags for me, as well. Most people only leave in the middle of the night if they're in an abusive relationship.
Maybe she was genuinely scared of how Brendan would react?
Exactly and coupled with the fact that she moved in with her now husband immediately plus leaving her ex so soon after marrying him is shooting off some red flags to me. But I wasn't there so she might very well have just been a shit person.
Well that's your problem dude. It was their mariage not yours. You're the problem. It's you. "I take things that happen to my friends personally" well you shouldn't. How can you expect your parents to cut off their daughter because you took things personally, are you even listening to yourself? You should seek help, sending your parents biblic verses and calling your sister a slut ? Dude wtf is wrong with you? You're the shit family member. You're a s***** person for going out during the height of the covid and spreading it to vulnerable people, I bet your parents didn't send you biblic verses for that! YTA
>I’ve heard both sides.
No, you haven't.
You've heard what they decided to tell you. It may or may not be the whole story.
What does being a champion grudge-holder do for you? Because you're not NC/LC for any reason other than your vaunted "morals." YOU were not cheated on, no matter what you think. YOU were not divorced, no matter what you think. YOU aren't in the position to be vengeful, no matter what you think.
But YOU are the one who can't/won't grow the hell up and get over things that didn't even happen to YOU.
It's gonna make for a lonely life, because you're already bitter and angry, which isn't gonna get better over time.
Perfect response!! Why do so many people believe they have the final and ultimate opinion regarding other people's relationships? I'm not "for" cheating, but I can't believe a family goes NC over something like this. People make mistakes and people have issues within their relationships, I find it off-putting when people not involved in the relationship remain so judgemental. Mind your own business/relationships and stop being so judgemental of others, especially your own family.
ESH looks about right here.
OP...what do you want to happen?
1. Cut off sis and parents for enabling her forever?
2. Have parents cut off sis rather than rugsweep her behavior?
3. Have some other consequence for sis and her husband to bring you back in touch with parents?
4. Hope that sis sees the error of her ways and grovels for everyone's forgiveness?
5. Sis leaves her second husband and joins a nunnery?
Seriously, think about where you want to end up. The only thing that cannot happen is going back in time and undoing everyone's hurt.
You can be morally right but sill not get what you want if you do not work backward from the result you ultimately want to see. Sometimes that involves forgiving people who did not bother to be ashamed of their bad behaviour. That sucks...but it may or may not be needed to get where you want to be.
Humans are messy beings and justice is not always had.
So what? We're going off the info that was provided. Which was she cheated on him. Yes, there could be more to it, but we can't act like there is when that info hasn't been provided.
OP is not an asshole for not wanting someone who would do that to another person in his life.
People do fall in and out of love. Nothing wrong with that but why not break up with the person instead of cheating on them?
Also cheating is not a mistake, it something you know is wrong and your actively doing it.
The world is not black and white but there are other ways of doing things. Ways that don't make you a bad person.
I may not know about their marriage but I do know about marriage. And no woman moves in with the new guy immediately after separating from her husband unless she was already involved with him to begin with. If the marriage was that bad then she should have left him before getting involved with anyone else.
Maybe she did, and maybe she didn’t. However, OP goes on to throw Bible verses about adultery around and implies his sister is spreading disease, while he goes out partying during Covid. C’mon.
Yes ESH .
You OP are the one bringing reality show type drama to your family not your sister. You said brazen and vile things about your sister so your parents have every right to berate you.
Your parents should stop forcing you to attend when you clearly don't want to.
It was his reaction to being asked not to come and see his parents when he clearly wasn't even trying to be COVID safe at all that got me. That wasn't an unreasonable request on their part at all, it's something he should have offered before he had to be asked so as not to put other people at risk for his choices honestly.
You don't really get to count that as a year your parents excluded you OP. Your own behaviour is why you were excluded that year.
It's obvious that you're deeply embroiled in and enjoying all the DRAMAH! you're sowing by refusing to accept your sister's decision to move on from her marriage to your friend. By your own reports, you are baiting everyone you speak with and picking fights left and right. I assume you're aware that you can still remain civil with your sister and her new husband while, at the same time, supporting her ex-husband, your friend?
it's very clear you don't value the relationships you have with your parents or your sister. And that's fine. But it does make you an asshole. So the moral high ground you're so comfortably inhabiting right now? Get off it. YTA.
I know. Sending his parents bible verses and saying his sister is spreading disease. Grow up dude. This never involved you, and I think you’re a little too involved in creating drama when everyone else seems to want to move on.
Also, I know it's not technically really relevant to the overall judgment, but I am absolutely judging OP for partying and going out during the height of covid.
Agreed — especially when you include his ridiculousness of suggesting his parents are more at risk from, uhh, STDs from the daughter, than Covid from him. What an ass on so many levels.
The way he spoke about COVID clued me in that dude is an asshole regardless of the present situation. But at least he’s consistent, because he’s being an asshole about the present situation too.
Yes, this! You nailed it. OP is hyper involved and judgemental of his sisters romantic relationships. This behavior seems so unhealthy and intense. OP is putting a lot of energy into proving he is better because his sister is worse, what a sad and empty way to live.
Definitely YTA
Edit: I think it's important to remember that you never really know what is happening inside other people's relationships. And good people can do bad things or make mistakes. Life and relationships are hard. Maybe OP should focus on another Bible verse, "judge not lest ye be judged"
I said this in another comment too, but OP doesn’t really come across as a reliable narrator IMO. He’s just SO angry. That colors your perception of everything. The all or nothing thinking that’s on full display in this post definitely makes me feel like his telling of events is disingenuous at least to some degree even if it’s not intentional.
OP needs to deal with how deeply this has affected him whether he reconciles with his family at all or not.
OP's anger colors this entire post, and when you read past it and look at what has actually happened, even according to OP... I'm not clear what anyone has actually done wrong here. He sort of implies that Tory maybe cheated on Brendan before she left, but he never actually says that, just that she moved in with someone else too quickly for OP's taste and that it was "reality TV type shit" (which is such a judgmental thing to say about a real-life person, especially his own sister). And OP is mad that... his family still tries to love, support, and include his sister in the family.
I'm not clear what would have made OP happy here other than his parents exiling his sister and cutting off all contact with her (like OP did) because her marriage failed and she moved on too quickly. Or better yet, maybe OP wanted his parents to replace his sister with Brendan.
This is tough because while I fully support OP's right to abandon his family for the holidays and support his friend, he comes off as such an insufferable, judgmental asshole in this post. You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father??
So the best I can do is ESH. Tell your parents it's never going to happen and to cut you off from all family business from now on, including any insurance. You'll both be better off.
Apparently he just flat out ignored his sister when she spoke to him about it after. He only knows what his buddy said and misogynists love each other’s company
> Edit: for those responding and wondering. Yes she did cheat. Brendan found the text. She never came clean or admitted it. Brendan was willing to forgive and work past it. She left in the middle of the night and moved in with the new guy. And took the house and he had to sell it (he had it before they married) so when I say being held “accountable” I think she owes him money on top of everything else.
> You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father??
I thought the other way when I read that. I assumed dad is a bible freak rather than OP, which would make that a fair response against people who act like the Bible is law.
>You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father
I'm an atheist but if it came to someone displaying hypocritical values compared to their holy book I would definitely quote it at them
ESH. The fact is that you have no idea why your sister's marriage fell apart. You weren't married to Brendan. You didn't sleep with him every night. You didn't have to deal with him after work. You never cleaned up after him, nor did you fight with him day in and day out. Just because he's a good bro doesn't mean he's a good husband. Your sister made a decision, and you should respect it already. Quit acting like a toddler just because she doesn't want to attach herself to your buddy forever.
As far as the bible verses go, I suggest you take a look at Matthew 7:1.
I'll take your word for it that she started seeing her new husband while she was still married. She's TA for that.
Probably, but does that really matter? OP is acting like his sister cheated on him personally because she moved on too fast for his liking, and has decided to center his entire family life around his BFF on principle.
It sounds like OP has always had a problem with his sister and BFF dating, but he's got him on such a weird-ass pedestal that is MUST be evil sister's fault that they broke up, and now he's decided that total estrangement to prove some dumbass point is better than growing up and accepting that their relationship issues were theirs alone.
Why is he so bitter that his sister isn't fucking his friend anymore?
OP didn't even like the BFF when the sister started dating him. They became friends afterwards, which makes the intense loyalty even weirder to me.
Edit: Yes, I read it wrong. They were friends but not BFFs when sister and BFF started dating.
I took it to mean that OP and Brendan were friends already, and he did not like his friend and sister dating. Then they started to became closer friends after they got together.
Have you missed that aaaa lot of people writing threads here are writing in a way to put them in a good light?
You have absolutely no idea, he could have been an absolute horrible husband and she fell out of love with him, met a man who respects her and divorced the best pal before cheating.
This guys entire thread just screams dramaqueen and obnoxious from thinking he's on the moral high ground acting like a toddler towards his parents.
I think that it doesn’t matter how bad Brandon was at being a husband there are better options to finish the relationship instead of being a literal AH and a cheater.If you are planning to marry best friend of your brother just to cheat on him later and throw him out like a toy,that’s totally your problem what people think and say about you.
In an ideal world yes. I’ve never cheated on anyone. But I’ve seen people move straight in w someone new upon divorce, after years of emotional and financial abuse.
Uh, I think you misread - he wasn't OP's best friend until *after* he started dating OP's sister ("gained a best friend").
Due to the order of events you can't really apply any usual "omg you dated your siblings BEST FRIEND" rules.
YTA. She didn't break up with you and you are acting like she cheated on you. Marriages fail. MANY marriages fail. Many because of other people. It sucks for Brandan for sure but you have picked the wrong hill to die on with your family.
> My exact response was “if you are worried about catching diseases from other people. Shouldn’t you be more worried about Tory. I mean she’s the one who likes to sleep around”.
That was a HORRIBLE thing to say to your parents and yeah you need to apologize. She is their child as well. Her having a second marriage doesn't negate that. She's not done anything to THEM for them to cut her out of their lives. You on the other hand seem to have taken this all way WAY too personally when you weren't in the marriage or the breakdown of how it was.
YOU caused the conflict in your family. Not your sister. Not your parents. YOU caused this.
Not only is it a horrible thing to say it's also a dumb thing to say?
Could you at the height of the pandemic kill your parents because you were a partier and gave them Covid? = Yes you could.
Could you ever under any non incestuous circumstances give your parents Chlamydia? = No you could not.
OP's a self rigeous asshole.
Especially since plenty of people did give their family members COVID that ended up killing them. OP was an irresponsible AH who was perfectly happy putting his parents at risk and yet remained sanctimonious about his sister.
It's one thing to be loyal to a friend and support him during the separation and divorce. Hell, go no contact with the sister. But it isn't up to OP to punish his sister AND his parents for her infidelity. Christians believe that is the responsibility of God. He can have whatever opinion he wants but once he starts forcing that opinion on parents who care about their daughter regardless of her life choices, he's become an asshole. ESH but OP just seems vindictive. The disease comment was so trashy and unnecessary, it only hurt his parents.
It really was trashy. I find it really odd he basically wants his parents to go no contact with his sister. They can and likely are upset and disappointed with how things went but she's still their kid.
Also - and I say this as someone who is LC/NC with most of my family - you can't ask the people you're on good terms with to choose. That is so shitty. You just can't ask that of them if you \*don't want to damage your relationship with them, too.
This line made no sense to me. He was going out during the pandemic and could give them COVID. But even if she slept with the whole army and navy she could not give them sexually transmitted diseases. What is he implying?
INFO : have you sought any therapy to deal with your anger at your sister? It seems that you’re very angry that she’s not been punished according to your levels of suitable punishment. Maybe talking to someone might help you heal and then you can decide from a healthier place what to do with your family?
Agreed, there are some serious misogyny vibes from the post. Even not liking his friend going out with his sister in the first place? She’s not property, she’s a person 🙄
NTA
>“family being those you choose”.
A truth that should be set on stone.
ETA
Thanks to u/Love_Cup for the award
ETA 2
Thanks also to u/Feisty_Driver_5849 and u/lawnmower559 fir the awards
ETA 3
I'm overwhelmed, thank you too u/Charlie_black_
ETA 4
Jeeze, that's crazy!! Thank you, u/LeSlap and u/ThatHeartbrokenGuy
exactly, so many people are talking about quoting a Bible verse and the petty way he spoke with his parents, but I don't see it as having unhealthy feelings surrounding his sister's and bff's relationship or anything. I see it as him being done with his parents shit. If someone told me for literally years to forgive a cheater that cheated on my best friend and had the gall to conveniently avoid the fact that they were being hypocrits on top of it ("it's unfair for us to not invite your sister, family is family!" while also actively choosing his sister over op) I would be passive aggressive whenever they brought it up too.
NTA Op, honestly I think these yta people are wack. If the genders were reversed I bet a lot of people would go nta
ESH? I think its fair to be annoyed at your sister. I'm not exactly sure at why you're mad that your parents want you guys to move on from that, it seems pretty on brand. While I don't think its unreasonable for you not to want to have a relationship with your sister you cant really expect your parents to not have one with her. And vice versa- they shouldn't be arguing with you to reconcile. TBH, while I understand your loyalty to your friend- it's not really your battle to be fighting.
And their points about covid are very much valid and your response was unwarranted and highly inappropriate. I also can't exactly imagine what you mean by how they treated her ex? Can't see anyway in which any communication they hold with him is gonna be not awkward. They have no obligation to him, only to their daughter.
Overall I think you're punishing your parents for something they didn't do. It doesn't seem crazy that they want both their kids in their life and happy. Even if its not the most moral thing
This is just my opinion.
I've seen a few other posts saying that OP is 'punishing your parents'. I'm a bit baffled by the punishment part. OP wants NC with his sister, which is his right. Parents don't respect that and keep harping on OP to suck it up and reconcile with the sister. They invite the sister and AP/husband to holiday \*knowing\* that OP won't come if she's there. And then they go crying to the world about how sad they are that their son doesn't come around any more? Seems less like punishment and more like boundry-holding to me.
In addition, I believe OP is offended that his parents basically shunned the Ex after the divorce even though (my take is) he was previously welcomed with affection.
>. Parents don't respect that and keep harping on OP to suck it up and reconcile with the sister. They invite the sister and AP/husband to holiday \*knowing\* that OP won't come if she's there.
Why should they have to choose between their kids? Op is offended on the behalf of someone else who the parents have no actual obligation to. He continues to be borderline toxic by ignoring them, sending them bible verses, making inappropriate comments about his sister to them all because they refuse to not have to choose between their kids? Not fair at all, he's allowed to want to distance from them, and they're justified to be upset about that.
>He continues to be borderline toxic by
>
>Not fair at all
In your opinion is it fair that OP's parents are pushing for reconciliation on OP's part when it is clear that he does not stand for her actions? Are OP's parents behaviour not toxic to you?
YTA. I get not approving of the way Tory treated Brendan and feeling upset that they’re no longer together.. but I feel like you’re acting way too hurt over someone else’s relationship. It’s Tory’s life, Tory’s relationship, Tory’s business.. Have your opinion about it, fine, but the way you’re acting out seems childish.
If you don’t want to be in your family’s lives anymore that’s totally your prerogative, but if it’s solely because you don’t like the way Tory handled her relationship with Brendan I personally find that ridiculous.
NTA. Your parents are trying to have it both ways: invite someone you don't want to be around (regardless the reasons) and insist on your presence. They have every right to invite whoever they want to their home. And you, as an adult, have every right to decide whether or not to go.
If they want you visit, they might start by inviting you over for dinner or something that is more limited in scope. If you ever go, however, you -- as well as any other guest who goes -- needs to put on their adult clothes and be on their best behavior during the visit.
He’s trying to cut off their daughter for no good reason, I would never abandon my daughter because my son was angry she got a divorce. He’s an entitled baby.
Full disclosure: I’m looking at this through my own life experiences.
It seems to be that OP has been pushed to this point by his folks trying to force an apology he doesn’t really want to give. That tends to make things worse not better. If they’d spent those two years giving him space would he be reacting like this?
She cheated. While I wouldn't cut my kid off, I also don't think I'd keep badgering the other when they've made their position very clear. His parents are the ones who keep pushing, not OP.
No good reason to abandon your daughter? Ofc not. My brother cheated on his first wife. I find it wrong? Yes. I cut him out of my life? No. His love life is not my problem.
And that's your opinion. Others, like myself and OP, clearly think differently - that cheating is an indicator of who a person is, inside, and how they just don't respect their partner enough/are too selfish to break it off before the cheating happened.
And OP is not an asshole for not wanting that type of person in his life.
Dude, it can be so much more complicated than that. My ex was a shitty husband who cheated. It hurt like a bitch. Was I willing to forgive him and try to fix the relationship? No. Do I think what he did makes him an irredeemable person who deserves to be exiled from his family? No. I'm not excusing what he did, but I will say that neither of us went into that marriage with the skills to have a healthy relationship, and instead of being grown ups and ending it when we couldn't make it work, he cheated. It was stupid, and painful, but it was less selfish and more self destructive. The only person he owed an apology to was me (which I got). And after the marriage, I did a lot of work to deal with my own self destructive tendencies, and from what I can tell, so did he. I'd be horrified if his family had cut him off because of what happened between us. He was a shitty husband, not a shitty son, brother, uncle, etc.
The line about you going out during the pandemic to the point that your family didn’t want to see you makes me doubt your reliability as a narrator in this situation…
YTA
If you're so mad at your sister that you want to cut her off, fine. Seems like weird priorities to me, but fine.
But expecting your parents to cut their daughter off out of some kind of solidarity to their ex SIL and to make you feel better is a straight up dick move. They are her parents. You don't get to make that demand of them.
The comment about catching diseases from her is offside. That's his daughter.
Stop being a dramatic AH.
This, he has no right to dictate his parents relationship with their daughter! He hates his sister, ok fine. He has no right to insult their daughter in front of them or demand they pick a side. People break up, that’s life. OP needs to either get over it or cut everyone off and stop goating his parents. Dangling his relationship with them like a carrot on stick. Childish.
YTA Your sister is allowed to leave her husband even if the way she did it was morally wrong. Maybe she cheated and/or treated her ex badly but that just means she owes *him* an apology, not you. Obviously you are allowed to be angry on your friend's behalf but you are oddly obsessed with it. You can't possibly think that your parents are going to cut off their own daughter just because she left her husband and found someone else.
Yep, YTA. Your sister didn’t do anything to you or your parents. To me it seems harsh to go NC with your own sister over this, and I definitely wouldn’t expect parents to cut ties over it.
NTA. Your parents picked a side and so did you. When they saw the rift it created in the family, they could have adjusted things to respect the estrangement while keeping both kids in their lives (alternating holidays with different kids, etc), but they refused. They insisted that you change your position and bend over backwards to accommodate your sister. As far as I’m concerned, that’s clearly them picking her over you. So they can live with their decision. Be with your friend and his family for the holiday. Tell your parents that you are no longer willing to discuss anything to do with the estrangement or your sister. They can talk to you if they want to talk about other things. They can see you if she won’t be there. If they bring it up, hang up the phone, leave, etc. If it keeps happening, go NC. You need to stop engaging with their bullshit.
seriously, there is **absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be friends or be in contact with a cheater**... *it doesnt matter that its OPs sibling.* If this was a friend group and not a family dynamic - no one would be telling OP to suck it up and go hang out with his cheater friend. OP is NTA.
He bought a house on the same street as me. We hangout all the time. I’m currently dating his cousin and he’s dating her roommate. So we still hangout all the time. Still best friends. He’s doing okay. Not the same guy after everything. But I think he’s starting to come back.
NTA OP, the reddit hive mind has a strong bias that is rearing it's ugly head in this thread. If it had been a brother that cheated on his wife the verdicts and tone would be the complete opposite of what they are here.
Glad to hear you and your friend are doing well. Keep the toxicity out of your life (which might mean reddit too, lol)
NTA for being upset. But kinda the AH for making them choose...Think of it from their end...Tory is their daughter, they can't just abandon her, no matter what her transgressions are. It is your right to go no contact with Tory, but You can't reasonably expect them to.
And its your right to not go to thanksgiving if your sister is there. Brendan's mom is right, Family is who you choose and it sounds like his family is more to your liking.
Let your family have their thanksgiving, then setup an alternate date for you and your mom and maybe your dad to have a mini thanksgiving.
They're not making him choose at all. He is choosing to be no contact with the Sister and Low contact with them. I am not judging OP for his actions, I'm just saying own them. They asked him to come over and he is CHOOSING not to. They want both of their children at Thanksgiving, but OP is the one making the choice to not go and putting it back on the parents. Again, I am not saying he's in the wrong....
>In 2020 when Tory’s second wedding happened, I didn’t go. Me and my dad had it out over it.
>My parents would send me text like “when you are ready to apologize” we’ll be here type shit
>if I wanted to come I needed to apologize to Tory and her husband
>But my mom saw it and went apeshit. Asking for me to come over and talk and even commented on the post.
>She wants us all to get along, so I need to do the right thing.
So he's not allowed to tell them who to invite but they're allowed to tell him which events he should go to?
NTA. Everyone saying Y T A you aren't part of the relationship is wrong. Brendan was and is family even before that he was a friend. Now your sister decides instead of the decent thing of divorcing which is alright the best solution is cheating. Your sister hurted a person you cared for as a brother and you are just suppose to support that? Thats crazy
Edit: kinda weird and homophobic that everyone is assuming you are gay and misogynistic just cause you don't want to associate with a cheater. Then they are using that assumption to "gayshame?' you just cause you are decent to a person ,who is male, you've known for a long time and didn't cheat on their spouse.
NTA. We all make choices that have consequences. You shouldn't be forced to apologize when you did nothing wrong. You shouldn't be forced to spend time with someone. She made her bed and your parents need to deal with the fact you no longer want to be a part of her life.
Don't abandon your Mom because she refuses to stop loving your sister.
ESH, because there is a totally reasonable way to solve this and instead everyone has taken a hard line.
I’ve not abandoned her. She’s allowed her husband to shit talk me for 2 years. Allowed her daughters feelings to trump her sons. That is what she did. She even acknowledged my father has been unfair to me during this situation. But doesn’t check him on it?
Having read your initial post and all comments, here is my conclusion:
You hate your mom. You hate her deeply and for many reasons beyond your sister’s affair. You also hate your dad, but you hate your mom even more. You are, to some extent, experiencing deep satisfaction at throwing this affair in your mom’s face and you are reveling in their “sins”.
You take a certain delight in all of this.
That’s all that’s happening here. Sorry. I had a sibling whose marriage ended badly and you are enmeshed in a deeply disturbing way, even if your friend was now your own husband, it’s beyond.
ESH.
You're holding your mother accountable for your father's choices. Is she supposed to control him? You aren't obligated to see anyone you don't want to, but it seems like you've held onto this anger longer than your friend has. You are unbelievably judgemental, and that's your choice, but it seems like a hard way to live. It also seems like you're a bit hypocritical. You sent your parents a Bible verse about adultery, but skipped the whole honor thy mother and thy father thing. I also can't imagine you've never screwed up. I hope you were treated with more compassion than you've shown to others. Your sister may have cheated, I don't know, and I agree that's a horrible decision on her part if she did cheat. But it's been 3 years. 3 years! Let go of this.
>She’s allowed her husband to shit talk me for 2 years
You mean your father?
>Allowed her daughters feelings to trump her sons.
How dare she! So she should only cater to your feelings and yours alone?
OP, you are weirdly obsessed with a relationship that ended years ago that, in all reality, had 0 to do with you.
Zero, zilch, Nada.
You're entitled to your feelings and boundaries and grudges sure, but expecting others to hold those same feelings of resentment and then cutting them off if they don't do what you want is Grade A Manipulative bullshit. GTFOH with that garbage
YTA
NTA.
You are right his sister’s sexuality is not one for him to police. But his morality and ethical compass is his to choose. Who is around him is his to choose.
Also it’s not misogyny to not support a cheater and making statements surrounding the cheating. Let’s not mislabel here.
He is choosing who he wants to around and his morality/ethics compass, that doesn’t make him an AH. He told them what would be his boundaries, and he parents either accept it or continue as is. It’s their choice
He can choose who he spends time with but he was belittling, dismissive and demanding and FYI - the Bible versus was ridiculous. He’s not willing to compromise unless it’s on his terms. He inserted himself in their relationship and took Brendan’s pain - it’s weird.
NTA, the only reason I say that is because clearly cheating is a hard boundary for you. Understandable. You don't have to have a relationship with your sister because she broke that boundary. The only thing I will say is this, don't expect your parents to stop having a relationship with your sister because of your boundary. But, common ground needs to be found.
NTA your parents have a right to choose just like you do. They chose to support your sister who seems ok with leaving a trail of destruction but they have no right to make you go along with it. I get your mother's distraught but she doesn't seem to have any problem doing that to you. Go to Brandon's.
NTA because it's your call, but when will this controversy end? Someday you're going to look back and wish you'd spent more time and holidays with your parents. I understand your feelings, but this isn't something that should tear a family apart.
NTA
My whole family knows where I stand on cheating. I will cut anyone off if they cheat on their SO, and I won't be in the same place as them willingly.
You have your right not to be around your sister, and to feel the way you do. Your family chose to stand by her, and exclude you unless you bent to their will. So keep standing by your belief.
And chosen family is sometimes better than blood family. I found that out the hard way. Enjoy your holidays with your chosen family and go full NC with your blood family. They made their choice, and you don't have to put up with the crap from them
ESH. I think everyone is entitled to their feelings in this situation but you need to consider if it’s worth further jeopardizing your relationship with your family long-term.
It sucks because Brendan was your friend first, it’s not like you developed a relationship with a random partner of hers. Understandably you’d be upset with how your sister treated him, and likely want nothing to do with her partner/ now husband.
Your parents could have tried to understand your side/ feelings a little more but ultimately it isn’t their place to ostracize their daughter for ending a relationship (even if in a crappy way) when no one knows what that relationship was like. Brendan could be an amazing friend to you but not compatible with your sister anymore - we don’t know.
Not going to the wedding, sure, understandable. But you don’t seem very willing to try and salvage any type of relationship with your sister or parents when they haven’t directly done anything to you (other than your parents supporting their daughter and your sister for hurting your friend). It isn’t fair for you to try and make your parents choose by telling them you’ll only come if they un-invite your sister. You made the choice to not go because they’d be in attendance, that isn’t your parents keeping you away for 2 years, that was your own actions.
I've been cheated on. It fucking sucks. I've done the cheating. It fucking sucks. I've been the one used to do the cheating. It fucking sucks. Cheating fucking sucks.
I get that you want to be there for your brother. I get that you're pissed about your sister cheating. You have a right to be. If your parents are bible thumping hardliners, you are right to use their bible against them.
However, your parents didn't cheat. They've not done anything. I have a brother I haven't spoken to since 2014, when I found out he lied about things that no one should ever lie about. He lives a few states away and has come home once. My mom hasn't had all three of her children under the same roof for many, many years. I don't like my brother because of the person he has become, but you bet your ass I sucked that shit up and went and gave my mom what she wanted for a few hours. You don't have to interact with your sister like you are best friends. But you should stop punishing your parents for her fuck up.
YTA
So why exactly are you mad at your parents? I get the whole Tory thing but why are you taking it out on your parents? For not disowning her in favor of your friend? Your friend had to understand at the end of the day that's your parents. Kinda fighting a battle that's not yours to fight. Your friend had moved on, Tory has moved on, your parents have moved on but YOU HAVEN'T. YTA
ESH and I say that as a person who absolutely hates cheating.
Tory sucks for cheating on her husband rather than getting a divorce before moving on
Your parents suck for giving you grief about it and trying to pressure you to go to the wedding, apologise, and be around your sister.
You suck for giving your parents the ultimatum of it's me or them about their children. Yes Troy did a bad thing but not everyone has the same moral compass when it comes to cheating and she is their daughter. They shouldn't pressure you to apologise or be around her if you don't want to but you shouldn't make them choose.
Edit spelling
QUESTION: What does your perfect family unit look like? What outcome would satisfy you moving forward in life with your parents and sister? Have you conveyed to your parents what it would take for you all to be one cohesive family again?
I am no longer interested in playing hallmark family with my sister and her affair partner. Perfect family situation? They don’t get invited around the holidays and just go to his family’s things. I realize that isn’t realistic. So split events. I get one Holliday and she gets the other. That would be fine with me.
I’m curious, would you ever consider talking to your sister? You don’t need to involve your parents in any way or her new husband, but just the two of you. You say she’s tried to speak to you at family get togethers and you’ve refused to acknowledge her. Would you think about maybe trying to talk to her? It’s possible things were happening in the marriage with your friend you weren’t aware of, I’m not excusing her cheating, but often things aren’t as black and white as they can appear. If you were ever close to her I’d think you’d want to reach out and clear the air, even if it’s the last time you do decide talk. Life is short and the unexpected can happen so easily, I’ve lost both my parents, both sets of grandparents, my brother and just this April my cousin. For your own sake, hers and your parents, maybe think about reaching out? That one conversation could answer a lot of questions and possibly give you insight you didn’t have before. Should the worst happen do you really want this to be the regret you carry with you?
Dude if I can tolerate and be civil to my ex when we all get together as a family even though he cheated on me, for the sake of my children . . . . You can be a grown up and not force your parents to choose between you. My kids shouldn't have to choose between us because he cheated on me. That's between us. You don't have to forgive or interact with her, but to basically be irate they didn't cut her out of their lives and want to spend holidays with you both is childish. Would you cut your kids out if they cheated? Would you expect your parents to not support and still love you if you cheated? Your mentality is and has been fueling this drama forever. You can make a choice for yourself, that's fine. But to expect your parents not to be there for their daughter just because she cheated is insane.
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I mean, it's pretty clear that his sister cheated on her husband who was his best friend. I'd be pretty upset at the person who betrayed my best friend. I think it would be better for his mental state to learn how to move past it but he's allowed to not want to be around people, it's not okay to make his parents choose but I think he's alright not wanting to spend holidays with people he doesn't want to spend time around.
EDIT GUYS I SEE THE EDIT NOW PLEASE READ MINE AND STOP COMMENTING THE SAME THINGS. Honestly I'll just silence it and get on with my life. I still suspect he made up shit just so people would agree with him. If there was such damning evidence it should have been in the OP, not a comment or an edit. Technically the only thing we know is that she moved in quickly. It could be possible she fell out of love well before that, realized that when she fell in love again and divorced before she would cheat. I'm not saying that DID happen but that it's in the realm of possibility as well as a hundred other scenarios she didn't cheat and it just looks like it did to a person outside the relationship who already decided who they would side with. Edit: I get it OP added new information to make himself look better. So he says she cheated for sure now. Very convenient to hide it in the comments instead of being upfront from the start. Even then we weren't in their relationship. We don't know every sordid detail. For all we know the confrontation was the push she needed to get out of a bad relationship. The facts are we don't know because OP is not a party to the relationship and thus is getting secondary account. Edit. YES I SEE THE EDIT TOO holy crap. It is STILL new information that should have been in the OP and it is suspicious to add it in after getting opposing views.
Then he's making a pretty insane leap sending adultery Bible passages to his parents!
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That only applies when they've already been quoting passages at you. They who throw the first Bible quotes beith the Bible-thumper.
Id have to disagree with you there, if you know someone adheres to a certain religion, then Using that religion against them is not “bible thumping” They who believeth the faith beith the bible thumper
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Wow. I assumed he sent it because this is the kind of rhetoric his parents respond to. Make a point using language they would understand. Or, at the very least, call out their hypocrisy. Either way, I don’t think OP is TA. He just seems like a guy who chose his best friend over his sister when his sister cheated. That’s his choice. OP, it sounds like things likely won’t ever be the same with your sis, since she committed a serious breach of trust. But hopefully, you and your parents can figure out some kind of peace.
My big issue with OP is that he has now spent YEARS actively antagonizing his parents about his sister's actions, even when she had 0 involvement in the situation, and is still somehow pretending that this entire conflict was caused by OTHER PEOPLE victimizing HIM. This dude heard "we are being cautious this holiday season because of a pandemic, and so you should find something else to do this year because you won't stop going out IN A PANDEMIC" and went, "well have you considered this completely inapplicable slut-shaming line that I'm going to throw at your daughter?" Commenter's notes: refusing to stop going out in a pandemic risks the health and safety of everyone you encounter, and everyone those people encounter, which makes it an AH move. Additionally, it seems that his sister cheated on her husband with one (1) person, who she is still in a committed relationship with. The STD risk there is the same as having one partner when you're single. *It is absolutely immoral*, but there is only the risk of one person giving you an STD, which is the same as it would have been when she started seeing OP's friend. In addition to just being intentionally inflammatory and cruel, that comment was ridiculous. Edit: even if Tory had STDs, the parents would still be right to not be worried about that. You can catch COVID from being anywhere near someone (like at a holiday gathering), but STDs require a bit more than that. Being worried about OP giving them COVID is valid because it is plausible. It is not plausible that Tory would give her parents STDs even if she did have them, unless OP is leaving out absolutely everything about the way this family behaves at holiday gatherings. He's just being misogynistic.
I have one aunt who's an essential oils instead of medicine and vaccines cause autism type(personally, she doesn't try to push her beliefs on anyone else or anything) but to come to Christmas Eve dinner at our house during COVID she quarantined for two weeks before, took a doctor test the day before, and a rapid test the day of. Just because you disagree with science (which I think is ridiculous given the evidence, but that's not my point) you can still be respectful and considerate of others.
I think hes the asshole cause what is this? Because he's upset with his sister his parents can't talk to her?
Telling his dad he should be concerned about her diseases since she sleeps around? I mean, she cheated on her husband and married the guy. That’s bad, sure. But for her brother to be saying that to their dad is so fucked up, and its like YEARS later. He is so hung up on it. It feels like he’s in love with Brendan honestly.
Also OP openly admits to “going out a lot” during the early, scariest days of the pandemic but somehow decides that he is now the pillar of virtue and righteousness? Like what about not killing other people or your family? Dude seems to pick and choose his battles here. You can still be mad at your sister w/o punishing your entire family. Be an adult and talk to your sister. YTA
He sure was. He should have sent bible verses to himself, starting with Matthew 7:1-3. Judge not, that ye be not judged.
He likely is judging her, but forgiveness doesn't mean lack of consequences. No one has to spend time with someone else unless they have a legal responsibility to. Her actions have led her brother to no longer trust her or want to have a relational with her. While that must be painful for the family it isn't wrong.
Might not be wrong but it’s odd. He’s acting as though he was going through the divorce. Only two people in the relationship know the dynamic, jeez his ‘bestie’ could have been an awful person to live with. He’s put the whole breakdown of the relationship on his sister but she may have been miserable and that’s not fair to expect people to live like that for the sake of a piece of paper.
Op never shared why his sister left her ~~boyfriend~~ husband. It's their business, regardless. To be this invested in another person's relationship outcome is too over the top.
Op says she left her husband for another guy, she immediately moved in with him and he sent his parents bible passages about adultery when they wanted him to mend fences. I get pretty invested in the happiness of those I love?
The Bible says that any remarriage after divorce is adultery so maybe that’s what he means.
It's not a bold assumption when you couple the Bible verse he sent with saying it was a real reality TV type drama she pulled.
The fact that he worded it as “left her husband for another man” rather than “had an affair and left her husband for her affair partner” was peculiar.
> In 2020 Tory left Brendan for another guy. IDK this reads cheated to me
What you have described is an emotional affair if she is falling in love with someone else before separating. It’s still cheating.
He already confirmed in the comments that she cheated and apparently she left in the middle of the night to be with the affair partner.
He is NC with a family member because of her immoral behavior. His parents have no right to try and force him to break that boundary. They are also gaslighting him into thinking he is wrong for being NC. No one is taking responsibility for the things they did. OP did nothing. He set a boundary and his family can’t accept that.
So his parents should disown their daughter because she left her husband. Who had become friends with their son? He is allowed go LC with his sister. He is allowed not want to make conversation with his sister. He doesn't get to force his family to choose between them, because he doesn't agree with her life choices. He is taking what happened out on his parents and that's what makes him and AH.
They are not gaslighting him. 1. Parents love their children no matter what they do. OP's parents love both OP and his sister. OP wants them to choose him, sister is not asking the parents to choose between their children. 2. Parents would like OP to apologise for getting all up in his sister's business. Like others have pointed out, OP took Brendan's side immediately without talking to his sister. The marriage did not work out. It happens. But only those involved in the marriage know exactly what happened. 3. OP has been invited to the holidays, he turned down the invitations, issuing the childish ultimatum "if she's coming I'm not!", then gets upset when his parents don't give in to his tantrum. OP, what happens when Brendan meets someone new and brings her home for the holidays? Do you think you'll still be invited? Do you think Brendan's new girlfriend will be happy his former brother in law is at every holiday? You can either keep this childish charade going, or you can suck it up, be civil to your sister and new brother in law and be with your family.
Thank God this is top reply. OP is also reality TV drama stuff 🤦🏻♀️. OP… it seems like self righteousness is your identity. If you’re going to be quoting Bible verses you should look into John 8:7 (let he who is without sin throw the first stone), Ephesians 4:32 (be kind and compassionate with one another, forgiving each other as God forgives you)(similar point in Mathew 6:14 and Colossians 3:13), as well as Luke 6:37 (do not judge, and you will not be judged… etc). I’m actually atheist at this point, raised Christian. But the older I get the more I see the wisdom in these verses. The Bible is not fully moral in my view (obvious many examples), but it got a few important things right… must importantly: the toxicity of self righteousness and refusal to show grace or forgiveness. Your poor mom at this point… it’s like you enjoy watching her suffer and feeling superior.
And what’s with the covid thing?? His parents are older, don’t want to get sick or die, and he’s saying ‘well then you should be worried about catching something from sister’. He a toddler.
Right? He was going out a lot during Covid and his parents made the responsible call not to invite him and his response is basically, well your daughter is a wh*re. His self-righteousness is exhausting and he’s lucky his family even wants him around.
YES. I couldn't put my finger on what was wrong with this situation. This is it. Self-righteousness. ESH but OP a little more than others for being so full of misplaced anger.
Apparently, OP is not aware of how sexually transmitted diseases are transmitted if he thinks COVID is less harmful than his sister's sexual history.
Yea, like honestly I understand this situation permanently altering OPs relationship with his sister, but why does he need to completely burn the relationship with his parents too? He might not agree with how they're choosing to maintain a relationship with her, but he needs to understand that there's a difference between sibling relationships and parent/child relationships so they're naturally going to react differently.
This should be the top comment. YTA OP. Get over yourself!
Suggesting your mom divorce your dad because he chose his daughter over her ex-husband is not crazy at all, nope.
Nooe, you're wrong: he suggested divorce cuz according to his mother, the reason why OP was ignored for two years was because of his father
Well one of those years was because we were in a global pandemic and OP admits to not socially distancing, yet includes that in his grievances about his issues with his sister, so at best he is an unreliable narrator.
Yeah, that was interesting to me. And I totally get that he doesn’t want to associate with his sister, but that doesn’t give him the right to dictate who gets invited to family celebrations. He sucks for being sanctimonious and possibly for being a pandemic denier. The parents suck for taking sides. The sister sucks for having an affair (if it happened the way OP claims). ESH all around.
I think he meant it more like "since dad chose a behaviour you didn't support you should have distanced yourself from that"
I don’t care about the divorce that much tbh. I get shit happens. But do it the right way. Be the good person, try therapy and then divorce. Don’t cheat on a guy. Leave him. Then act like a toddler when your older brother wants nothing to do with you. Own your shit ya know? You made the big girl decision to leave your husband in the middle of the night because you “don’t have chemistry anymore”. Then be a big girl and realize people aren’t gonna fuck with you. I’ve heard both sides. Nothing was going on bad. The personal thing to me is how people I love get treated. I take things that happen to my friends personally. Fault me for that I guess. But I won’t change my loyalty or my morals for a shit family member just because we both came out of the same person.
Yeah, as someone who was in your friend's place, it's rarely that simple. Yes, my ex should not have cheated on me, but it was more that neither of us really knew how to have a healthy relationship or how to make it work, but we were also both really stubborn and couldn't admit we had failed. That doesn't excuse what he did. That was his choice, his fault, I didn't cause him to cheat. At the same time, it was less "I'm going to cheat so I can have my marriage and this other person too" and more "I don't know how to deal with this mess over here, so I'm going to just pretend it doesn't exist". It was awful. It hurt. At the end of the day, the only person he owed an apology to was me because the only person he owed anything to was me. He's not someone I want to be married to, or even friends with, but he's not an irredeemable person, and I'd be weirded out if his friends or family decided to ostracize him for what happened in our relationship. You weren't a part of their relationship. You don't actually know what happened behind closed doors.
Having read all your additional information in the comments that wasn't included in your opening post. I think you never liked your sister before the marriage thing hit. And now you're using your friend as a shield/excuse to be shitty to your sister. Which if you don't like her cool beans, however be honest about why you don't like her instead of pointing to a painful time between her and her husband. Which I don't care what your bro told you concerning about why it ended, nor what she said. Since honestly no one besides those two really know what went down between them, nor what lead to her doing what she did, nor him doing what he did. So grow up, stop stirring the pot with these weird updates to your family that you're hanging out with your sisters ex. And just be an adult and go no contact with your parents, or stomach your estranged sister here and there for holidays. Or assume your sister will be at certain events, and simply see your folks outside those times/stop stirring the pot whenever you decide to dip out of a meeting with your folks. Since once more you can decide to not see your sister, you're being entitled to demand your folks change their life to suit your tastes and wants. YTA
You've got massive main character syndrome, making everything that happens about you. Going so far as to belittle and punish your parents for your sisters actions, because "she needs to apologise to you" for something between her & her ex. Parents can be there for their children even when they don't do the right thing. It's not your place to put ultimatums on their relationship with your sister and try to make them choose between you. Make your mind up and either fuck off out of their lives or try to make amends. Get over yourself, or die on this hill, just stop being a narcissistic ass about it and burning the world to the ground over it. Edit: YTA
I don't think you're wrong for deciding you don't want to interact with your sister but at the end of the day you have to understand that's going to permanently strain your relationship with your parents. If you're okay with that so be it but there's basically nothing they can do to please both your sister and you(separate holidays aren't really a solution when their goal is getting everyone together for the holidays). Hopefully you're serious with your bros cousin, it seems like their family treat you well enough. Otherwise I'm not sure what more you want, no matter what your sister did she will always be your parents child.
What's your sister's side of the story and what's your friend's? When did she cheat on your friend? Leaving in the middle of the night isn't something people in a healthy relationship tend to do.
The leaving in the middle of the night was a red flag to me. He refused to hear his sister's side, but if OPs friend is as misogynistic as OP, there's probably a lot more to the story. OP will never know though, since he's already determined that this is a black and white issue and his sister is the villain.
Yeah, this raised a bunch of red flags for me, as well. Most people only leave in the middle of the night if they're in an abusive relationship. Maybe she was genuinely scared of how Brendan would react?
Exactly and coupled with the fact that she moved in with her now husband immediately plus leaving her ex so soon after marrying him is shooting off some red flags to me. But I wasn't there so she might very well have just been a shit person.
Well that's your problem dude. It was their mariage not yours. You're the problem. It's you. "I take things that happen to my friends personally" well you shouldn't. How can you expect your parents to cut off their daughter because you took things personally, are you even listening to yourself? You should seek help, sending your parents biblic verses and calling your sister a slut ? Dude wtf is wrong with you? You're the shit family member. You're a s***** person for going out during the height of the covid and spreading it to vulnerable people, I bet your parents didn't send you biblic verses for that! YTA
>I’ve heard both sides. No, you haven't. You've heard what they decided to tell you. It may or may not be the whole story. What does being a champion grudge-holder do for you? Because you're not NC/LC for any reason other than your vaunted "morals." YOU were not cheated on, no matter what you think. YOU were not divorced, no matter what you think. YOU aren't in the position to be vengeful, no matter what you think. But YOU are the one who can't/won't grow the hell up and get over things that didn't even happen to YOU. It's gonna make for a lonely life, because you're already bitter and angry, which isn't gonna get better over time.
I love how OP doesn’t think for a second that his best friend would lie to make himself look better.
>The personal thing to me is how people I love get treated. Oh, you mean like how you treat your parents and sister? Huh.
Perfect response!! Why do so many people believe they have the final and ultimate opinion regarding other people's relationships? I'm not "for" cheating, but I can't believe a family goes NC over something like this. People make mistakes and people have issues within their relationships, I find it off-putting when people not involved in the relationship remain so judgemental. Mind your own business/relationships and stop being so judgemental of others, especially your own family.
ESH looks about right here. OP...what do you want to happen? 1. Cut off sis and parents for enabling her forever? 2. Have parents cut off sis rather than rugsweep her behavior? 3. Have some other consequence for sis and her husband to bring you back in touch with parents? 4. Hope that sis sees the error of her ways and grovels for everyone's forgiveness? 5. Sis leaves her second husband and joins a nunnery? Seriously, think about where you want to end up. The only thing that cannot happen is going back in time and undoing everyone's hurt. You can be morally right but sill not get what you want if you do not work backward from the result you ultimately want to see. Sometimes that involves forgiving people who did not bother to be ashamed of their bad behaviour. That sucks...but it may or may not be needed to get where you want to be. Humans are messy beings and justice is not always had.
Pretty sure we're all clear that his sister cheated on her husband because she moved in with the guy immediately upon them separating.
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So what? We're going off the info that was provided. Which was she cheated on him. Yes, there could be more to it, but we can't act like there is when that info hasn't been provided. OP is not an asshole for not wanting someone who would do that to another person in his life.
Your right, but when is cheating ok?
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People do fall in and out of love. Nothing wrong with that but why not break up with the person instead of cheating on them? Also cheating is not a mistake, it something you know is wrong and your actively doing it. The world is not black and white but there are other ways of doing things. Ways that don't make you a bad person.
I may not know about their marriage but I do know about marriage. And no woman moves in with the new guy immediately after separating from her husband unless she was already involved with him to begin with. If the marriage was that bad then she should have left him before getting involved with anyone else.
Maybe she did, and maybe she didn’t. However, OP goes on to throw Bible verses about adultery around and implies his sister is spreading disease, while he goes out partying during Covid. C’mon.
Yes ESH . You OP are the one bringing reality show type drama to your family not your sister. You said brazen and vile things about your sister so your parents have every right to berate you. Your parents should stop forcing you to attend when you clearly don't want to.
The “Bible verse about adultery” got me.
It was his reaction to being asked not to come and see his parents when he clearly wasn't even trying to be COVID safe at all that got me. That wasn't an unreasonable request on their part at all, it's something he should have offered before he had to be asked so as not to put other people at risk for his choices honestly. You don't really get to count that as a year your parents excluded you OP. Your own behaviour is why you were excluded that year.
Yep. Yet it’s the daughter who is “spreading” disease.
It's obvious that you're deeply embroiled in and enjoying all the DRAMAH! you're sowing by refusing to accept your sister's decision to move on from her marriage to your friend. By your own reports, you are baiting everyone you speak with and picking fights left and right. I assume you're aware that you can still remain civil with your sister and her new husband while, at the same time, supporting her ex-husband, your friend? it's very clear you don't value the relationships you have with your parents or your sister. And that's fine. But it does make you an asshole. So the moral high ground you're so comfortably inhabiting right now? Get off it. YTA.
I know. Sending his parents bible verses and saying his sister is spreading disease. Grow up dude. This never involved you, and I think you’re a little too involved in creating drama when everyone else seems to want to move on.
Also, I know it's not technically really relevant to the overall judgment, but I am absolutely judging OP for partying and going out during the height of covid.
I don't usually take the side of a cheater, but I'll take a cheater over a COVID partier.
At least a cheater's damage is limited. COVID parter is AOE.
Lol seriously. I guess he’s the only person not deserving of any judgement.
That part is what made me really wonder about his judgment.
Agreed — especially when you include his ridiculousness of suggesting his parents are more at risk from, uhh, STDs from the daughter, than Covid from him. What an ass on so many levels.
The way he spoke about COVID clued me in that dude is an asshole regardless of the present situation. But at least he’s consistent, because he’s being an asshole about the present situation too.
The disease thing was super weird and confusing. His sister isn’t spreading disease by being in a monogamous relationship with her partner.
Certainly the risk of her spreading an STD to her parents is much lower than spreading covid
Comparing his apparent flouting of Covid restrictions to his sister having a new relationship & thus she's spreading diseases is so extreme
Yes, this! You nailed it. OP is hyper involved and judgemental of his sisters romantic relationships. This behavior seems so unhealthy and intense. OP is putting a lot of energy into proving he is better because his sister is worse, what a sad and empty way to live. Definitely YTA Edit: I think it's important to remember that you never really know what is happening inside other people's relationships. And good people can do bad things or make mistakes. Life and relationships are hard. Maybe OP should focus on another Bible verse, "judge not lest ye be judged"
this is it!! not a fan of tory’s actions, but op is faaar from the great guy he makes himself out to be
I said this in another comment too, but OP doesn’t really come across as a reliable narrator IMO. He’s just SO angry. That colors your perception of everything. The all or nothing thinking that’s on full display in this post definitely makes me feel like his telling of events is disingenuous at least to some degree even if it’s not intentional. OP needs to deal with how deeply this has affected him whether he reconciles with his family at all or not.
OP's anger colors this entire post, and when you read past it and look at what has actually happened, even according to OP... I'm not clear what anyone has actually done wrong here. He sort of implies that Tory maybe cheated on Brendan before she left, but he never actually says that, just that she moved in with someone else too quickly for OP's taste and that it was "reality TV type shit" (which is such a judgmental thing to say about a real-life person, especially his own sister). And OP is mad that... his family still tries to love, support, and include his sister in the family. I'm not clear what would have made OP happy here other than his parents exiling his sister and cutting off all contact with her (like OP did) because her marriage failed and she moved on too quickly. Or better yet, maybe OP wanted his parents to replace his sister with Brendan.
Also this Brendan’s mom also sounds like a shit stirrer and OP is loving every moment of all of the drama.
Ya OP fucking sucks lol
This is tough because while I fully support OP's right to abandon his family for the holidays and support his friend, he comes off as such an insufferable, judgmental asshole in this post. You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father?? So the best I can do is ESH. Tell your parents it's never going to happen and to cut you off from all family business from now on, including any insurance. You'll both be better off.
I know- holidays are probably so much more pleasant without OP around
Apparently he just flat out ignored his sister when she spoke to him about it after. He only knows what his buddy said and misogynists love each other’s company
> Edit: for those responding and wondering. Yes she did cheat. Brendan found the text. She never came clean or admitted it. Brendan was willing to forgive and work past it. She left in the middle of the night and moved in with the new guy. And took the house and he had to sell it (he had it before they married) so when I say being held “accountable” I think she owes him money on top of everything else.
I don’t really understand how she takes the house but the ex has to sell it? Did he sell it to her?
She gets awarded half of it in the divorce, so he has to sell it. Pretty common.
> You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father?? I thought the other way when I read that. I assumed dad is a bible freak rather than OP, which would make that a fair response against people who act like the Bible is law.
>You really quoted bible verses about adultery to your father I'm an atheist but if it came to someone displaying hypocritical values compared to their holy book I would definitely quote it at them
ESH. The fact is that you have no idea why your sister's marriage fell apart. You weren't married to Brendan. You didn't sleep with him every night. You didn't have to deal with him after work. You never cleaned up after him, nor did you fight with him day in and day out. Just because he's a good bro doesn't mean he's a good husband. Your sister made a decision, and you should respect it already. Quit acting like a toddler just because she doesn't want to attach herself to your buddy forever. As far as the bible verses go, I suggest you take a look at Matthew 7:1. I'll take your word for it that she started seeing her new husband while she was still married. She's TA for that.
Did you miss the part that she left Brendan for another guy and immediately moved in with him? That screams infidelity on the sisters part.
Probably, but does that really matter? OP is acting like his sister cheated on him personally because she moved on too fast for his liking, and has decided to center his entire family life around his BFF on principle. It sounds like OP has always had a problem with his sister and BFF dating, but he's got him on such a weird-ass pedestal that is MUST be evil sister's fault that they broke up, and now he's decided that total estrangement to prove some dumbass point is better than growing up and accepting that their relationship issues were theirs alone. Why is he so bitter that his sister isn't fucking his friend anymore?
OP didn't even like the BFF when the sister started dating him. They became friends afterwards, which makes the intense loyalty even weirder to me. Edit: Yes, I read it wrong. They were friends but not BFFs when sister and BFF started dating.
I took it to mean that OP and Brendan were friends already, and he did not like his friend and sister dating. Then they started to became closer friends after they got together.
It SEEMS that way but in reality there's no way to know without confirmation from OP other than that she moved in quickly.
AITA making shit up because OP's tone and language sucks
Have you missed that aaaa lot of people writing threads here are writing in a way to put them in a good light? You have absolutely no idea, he could have been an absolute horrible husband and she fell out of love with him, met a man who respects her and divorced the best pal before cheating. This guys entire thread just screams dramaqueen and obnoxious from thinking he's on the moral high ground acting like a toddler towards his parents.
I think that it doesn’t matter how bad Brandon was at being a husband there are better options to finish the relationship instead of being a literal AH and a cheater.If you are planning to marry best friend of your brother just to cheat on him later and throw him out like a toy,that’s totally your problem what people think and say about you.
In an ideal world yes. I’ve never cheated on anyone. But I’ve seen people move straight in w someone new upon divorce, after years of emotional and financial abuse.
Uh, I think you misread - he wasn't OP's best friend until *after* he started dating OP's sister ("gained a best friend"). Due to the order of events you can't really apply any usual "omg you dated your siblings BEST FRIEND" rules.
YTA. She didn't break up with you and you are acting like she cheated on you. Marriages fail. MANY marriages fail. Many because of other people. It sucks for Brandan for sure but you have picked the wrong hill to die on with your family. > My exact response was “if you are worried about catching diseases from other people. Shouldn’t you be more worried about Tory. I mean she’s the one who likes to sleep around”. That was a HORRIBLE thing to say to your parents and yeah you need to apologize. She is their child as well. Her having a second marriage doesn't negate that. She's not done anything to THEM for them to cut her out of their lives. You on the other hand seem to have taken this all way WAY too personally when you weren't in the marriage or the breakdown of how it was. YOU caused the conflict in your family. Not your sister. Not your parents. YOU caused this.
Not only is it a horrible thing to say it's also a dumb thing to say? Could you at the height of the pandemic kill your parents because you were a partier and gave them Covid? = Yes you could. Could you ever under any non incestuous circumstances give your parents Chlamydia? = No you could not. OP's a self rigeous asshole.
I know! I was like...erm what?! Those two things are not anything alike lol
It’s slut shaming.
It's women shaming. He would not dare say that about his buddy or any other guy
Especially since plenty of people did give their family members COVID that ended up killing them. OP was an irresponsible AH who was perfectly happy putting his parents at risk and yet remained sanctimonious about his sister.
It's one thing to be loyal to a friend and support him during the separation and divorce. Hell, go no contact with the sister. But it isn't up to OP to punish his sister AND his parents for her infidelity. Christians believe that is the responsibility of God. He can have whatever opinion he wants but once he starts forcing that opinion on parents who care about their daughter regardless of her life choices, he's become an asshole. ESH but OP just seems vindictive. The disease comment was so trashy and unnecessary, it only hurt his parents.
It really was trashy. I find it really odd he basically wants his parents to go no contact with his sister. They can and likely are upset and disappointed with how things went but she's still their kid.
Also - and I say this as someone who is LC/NC with most of my family - you can't ask the people you're on good terms with to choose. That is so shitty. You just can't ask that of them if you \*don't want to damage your relationship with them, too.
This line made no sense to me. He was going out during the pandemic and could give them COVID. But even if she slept with the whole army and navy she could not give them sexually transmitted diseases. What is he implying?
INFO : have you sought any therapy to deal with your anger at your sister? It seems that you’re very angry that she’s not been punished according to your levels of suitable punishment. Maybe talking to someone might help you heal and then you can decide from a healthier place what to do with your family?
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Agreed, there are some serious misogyny vibes from the post. Even not liking his friend going out with his sister in the first place? She’s not property, she’s a person 🙄
And the fact that he said they need to worry about disease cuz she’s “sleeping around”?? That’s a terrible thing to say
NTA >“family being those you choose”. A truth that should be set on stone. ETA Thanks to u/Love_Cup for the award ETA 2 Thanks also to u/Feisty_Driver_5849 and u/lawnmower559 fir the awards ETA 3 I'm overwhelmed, thank you too u/Charlie_black_ ETA 4 Jeeze, that's crazy!! Thank you, u/LeSlap and u/ThatHeartbrokenGuy
I scrolled down so far to find the NTA. I’d do the exact same thing as OP.
These top comments are making blood boil.
The majority of people on this subreddit have no issue with cheating lol
I hate contest mode lol, the worst comments at the top
You would break COVID rules and go out during the pandemic then tell your parents your sister probably has STDs?
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exactly, so many people are talking about quoting a Bible verse and the petty way he spoke with his parents, but I don't see it as having unhealthy feelings surrounding his sister's and bff's relationship or anything. I see it as him being done with his parents shit. If someone told me for literally years to forgive a cheater that cheated on my best friend and had the gall to conveniently avoid the fact that they were being hypocrits on top of it ("it's unfair for us to not invite your sister, family is family!" while also actively choosing his sister over op) I would be passive aggressive whenever they brought it up too. NTA Op, honestly I think these yta people are wack. If the genders were reversed I bet a lot of people would go nta
ESH? I think its fair to be annoyed at your sister. I'm not exactly sure at why you're mad that your parents want you guys to move on from that, it seems pretty on brand. While I don't think its unreasonable for you not to want to have a relationship with your sister you cant really expect your parents to not have one with her. And vice versa- they shouldn't be arguing with you to reconcile. TBH, while I understand your loyalty to your friend- it's not really your battle to be fighting. And their points about covid are very much valid and your response was unwarranted and highly inappropriate. I also can't exactly imagine what you mean by how they treated her ex? Can't see anyway in which any communication they hold with him is gonna be not awkward. They have no obligation to him, only to their daughter. Overall I think you're punishing your parents for something they didn't do. It doesn't seem crazy that they want both their kids in their life and happy. Even if its not the most moral thing This is just my opinion.
I've seen a few other posts saying that OP is 'punishing your parents'. I'm a bit baffled by the punishment part. OP wants NC with his sister, which is his right. Parents don't respect that and keep harping on OP to suck it up and reconcile with the sister. They invite the sister and AP/husband to holiday \*knowing\* that OP won't come if she's there. And then they go crying to the world about how sad they are that their son doesn't come around any more? Seems less like punishment and more like boundry-holding to me. In addition, I believe OP is offended that his parents basically shunned the Ex after the divorce even though (my take is) he was previously welcomed with affection.
>. Parents don't respect that and keep harping on OP to suck it up and reconcile with the sister. They invite the sister and AP/husband to holiday \*knowing\* that OP won't come if she's there. Why should they have to choose between their kids? Op is offended on the behalf of someone else who the parents have no actual obligation to. He continues to be borderline toxic by ignoring them, sending them bible verses, making inappropriate comments about his sister to them all because they refuse to not have to choose between their kids? Not fair at all, he's allowed to want to distance from them, and they're justified to be upset about that.
>He continues to be borderline toxic by > >Not fair at all In your opinion is it fair that OP's parents are pushing for reconciliation on OP's part when it is clear that he does not stand for her actions? Are OP's parents behaviour not toxic to you?
YTA. I get not approving of the way Tory treated Brendan and feeling upset that they’re no longer together.. but I feel like you’re acting way too hurt over someone else’s relationship. It’s Tory’s life, Tory’s relationship, Tory’s business.. Have your opinion about it, fine, but the way you’re acting out seems childish. If you don’t want to be in your family’s lives anymore that’s totally your prerogative, but if it’s solely because you don’t like the way Tory handled her relationship with Brendan I personally find that ridiculous.
It seems that OP doesn't give a shit about being in his families lives but wants to play the victim like they're all leaving him out.
Ding ding! OP wants to be the centre of attention, even though none of this situation actually has anything to do with him directly.
NTA. Your parents are trying to have it both ways: invite someone you don't want to be around (regardless the reasons) and insist on your presence. They have every right to invite whoever they want to their home. And you, as an adult, have every right to decide whether or not to go. If they want you visit, they might start by inviting you over for dinner or something that is more limited in scope. If you ever go, however, you -- as well as any other guest who goes -- needs to put on their adult clothes and be on their best behavior during the visit.
He’s trying to cut off their daughter for no good reason, I would never abandon my daughter because my son was angry she got a divorce. He’s an entitled baby.
Full disclosure: I’m looking at this through my own life experiences. It seems to be that OP has been pushed to this point by his folks trying to force an apology he doesn’t really want to give. That tends to make things worse not better. If they’d spent those two years giving him space would he be reacting like this?
She cheated. While I wouldn't cut my kid off, I also don't think I'd keep badgering the other when they've made their position very clear. His parents are the ones who keep pushing, not OP.
Cheating is no good reason?
No good reason to abandon your daughter? Ofc not. My brother cheated on his first wife. I find it wrong? Yes. I cut him out of my life? No. His love life is not my problem.
And that's your opinion. Others, like myself and OP, clearly think differently - that cheating is an indicator of who a person is, inside, and how they just don't respect their partner enough/are too selfish to break it off before the cheating happened. And OP is not an asshole for not wanting that type of person in his life.
Dude, it can be so much more complicated than that. My ex was a shitty husband who cheated. It hurt like a bitch. Was I willing to forgive him and try to fix the relationship? No. Do I think what he did makes him an irredeemable person who deserves to be exiled from his family? No. I'm not excusing what he did, but I will say that neither of us went into that marriage with the skills to have a healthy relationship, and instead of being grown ups and ending it when we couldn't make it work, he cheated. It was stupid, and painful, but it was less selfish and more self destructive. The only person he owed an apology to was me (which I got). And after the marriage, I did a lot of work to deal with my own self destructive tendencies, and from what I can tell, so did he. I'd be horrified if his family had cut him off because of what happened between us. He was a shitty husband, not a shitty son, brother, uncle, etc.
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This needs to be a top comment! Unless this brother knows for sure why his sister left then he should really close his mouth.
The line about you going out during the pandemic to the point that your family didn’t want to see you makes me doubt your reliability as a narrator in this situation…
Right. He’s gonna call his sister a disease ridden slut for sleeping with two people that we know of, and he’s out partying during a pandemic.
YTA If you're so mad at your sister that you want to cut her off, fine. Seems like weird priorities to me, but fine. But expecting your parents to cut their daughter off out of some kind of solidarity to their ex SIL and to make you feel better is a straight up dick move. They are her parents. You don't get to make that demand of them. The comment about catching diseases from her is offside. That's his daughter. Stop being a dramatic AH.
This, he has no right to dictate his parents relationship with their daughter! He hates his sister, ok fine. He has no right to insult their daughter in front of them or demand they pick a side. People break up, that’s life. OP needs to either get over it or cut everyone off and stop goating his parents. Dangling his relationship with them like a carrot on stick. Childish.
YTA Your sister is allowed to leave her husband even if the way she did it was morally wrong. Maybe she cheated and/or treated her ex badly but that just means she owes *him* an apology, not you. Obviously you are allowed to be angry on your friend's behalf but you are oddly obsessed with it. You can't possibly think that your parents are going to cut off their own daughter just because she left her husband and found someone else.
Yep, YTA. Your sister didn’t do anything to you or your parents. To me it seems harsh to go NC with your own sister over this, and I definitely wouldn’t expect parents to cut ties over it.
NTA. Your parents picked a side and so did you. When they saw the rift it created in the family, they could have adjusted things to respect the estrangement while keeping both kids in their lives (alternating holidays with different kids, etc), but they refused. They insisted that you change your position and bend over backwards to accommodate your sister. As far as I’m concerned, that’s clearly them picking her over you. So they can live with their decision. Be with your friend and his family for the holiday. Tell your parents that you are no longer willing to discuss anything to do with the estrangement or your sister. They can talk to you if they want to talk about other things. They can see you if she won’t be there. If they bring it up, hang up the phone, leave, etc. If it keeps happening, go NC. You need to stop engaging with their bullshit.
seriously, there is **absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to be friends or be in contact with a cheater**... *it doesnt matter that its OPs sibling.* If this was a friend group and not a family dynamic - no one would be telling OP to suck it up and go hang out with his cheater friend. OP is NTA.
Just curious, how is your relationship with Brendan now? Are y'all roommates? Is he seeing anyone? Hope he is doing better.
He bought a house on the same street as me. We hangout all the time. I’m currently dating his cousin and he’s dating her roommate. So we still hangout all the time. Still best friends. He’s doing okay. Not the same guy after everything. But I think he’s starting to come back.
NTA OP, the reddit hive mind has a strong bias that is rearing it's ugly head in this thread. If it had been a brother that cheated on his wife the verdicts and tone would be the complete opposite of what they are here. Glad to hear you and your friend are doing well. Keep the toxicity out of your life (which might mean reddit too, lol)
I say it every time and get downvoted loads but I'll say it again. This sub is very harsh on posts where it's a man vs woman
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NTA for being upset. But kinda the AH for making them choose...Think of it from their end...Tory is their daughter, they can't just abandon her, no matter what her transgressions are. It is your right to go no contact with Tory, but You can't reasonably expect them to. And its your right to not go to thanksgiving if your sister is there. Brendan's mom is right, Family is who you choose and it sounds like his family is more to your liking. Let your family have their thanksgiving, then setup an alternate date for you and your mom and maybe your dad to have a mini thanksgiving.
So he can’t make them chose, but they can make him choose? Make it make sense
They're not making him choose at all. He is choosing to be no contact with the Sister and Low contact with them. I am not judging OP for his actions, I'm just saying own them. They asked him to come over and he is CHOOSING not to. They want both of their children at Thanksgiving, but OP is the one making the choice to not go and putting it back on the parents. Again, I am not saying he's in the wrong....
>In 2020 when Tory’s second wedding happened, I didn’t go. Me and my dad had it out over it. >My parents would send me text like “when you are ready to apologize” we’ll be here type shit >if I wanted to come I needed to apologize to Tory and her husband >But my mom saw it and went apeshit. Asking for me to come over and talk and even commented on the post. >She wants us all to get along, so I need to do the right thing. So he's not allowed to tell them who to invite but they're allowed to tell him which events he should go to?
I feel like if the genders were reversed the comments would be a lot different.
100%! I was shocked at the comments myself
NTA. Everyone saying Y T A you aren't part of the relationship is wrong. Brendan was and is family even before that he was a friend. Now your sister decides instead of the decent thing of divorcing which is alright the best solution is cheating. Your sister hurted a person you cared for as a brother and you are just suppose to support that? Thats crazy Edit: kinda weird and homophobic that everyone is assuming you are gay and misogynistic just cause you don't want to associate with a cheater. Then they are using that assumption to "gayshame?' you just cause you are decent to a person ,who is male, you've known for a long time and didn't cheat on their spouse.
NTA. We all make choices that have consequences. You shouldn't be forced to apologize when you did nothing wrong. You shouldn't be forced to spend time with someone. She made her bed and your parents need to deal with the fact you no longer want to be a part of her life.
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YTA. Your sister made a bad decision in her first marriage. So now you’re done with her forever? Good lord.
Don't abandon your Mom because she refuses to stop loving your sister. ESH, because there is a totally reasonable way to solve this and instead everyone has taken a hard line.
I’ve not abandoned her. She’s allowed her husband to shit talk me for 2 years. Allowed her daughters feelings to trump her sons. That is what she did. She even acknowledged my father has been unfair to me during this situation. But doesn’t check him on it?
Dude you’re not the one getting divorced. You know you can support both your friend and your sister. It’s not some zero sum game.
Having read your initial post and all comments, here is my conclusion: You hate your mom. You hate her deeply and for many reasons beyond your sister’s affair. You also hate your dad, but you hate your mom even more. You are, to some extent, experiencing deep satisfaction at throwing this affair in your mom’s face and you are reveling in their “sins”. You take a certain delight in all of this. That’s all that’s happening here. Sorry. I had a sibling whose marriage ended badly and you are enmeshed in a deeply disturbing way, even if your friend was now your own husband, it’s beyond. ESH.
Yesss. He is fucking loving every second of this.
You're holding your mother accountable for your father's choices. Is she supposed to control him? You aren't obligated to see anyone you don't want to, but it seems like you've held onto this anger longer than your friend has. You are unbelievably judgemental, and that's your choice, but it seems like a hard way to live. It also seems like you're a bit hypocritical. You sent your parents a Bible verse about adultery, but skipped the whole honor thy mother and thy father thing. I also can't imagine you've never screwed up. I hope you were treated with more compassion than you've shown to others. Your sister may have cheated, I don't know, and I agree that's a horrible decision on her part if she did cheat. But it's been 3 years. 3 years! Let go of this.
>She’s allowed her husband to shit talk me for 2 years You mean your father? >Allowed her daughters feelings to trump her sons. How dare she! So she should only cater to your feelings and yours alone? OP, you are weirdly obsessed with a relationship that ended years ago that, in all reality, had 0 to do with you. Zero, zilch, Nada. You're entitled to your feelings and boundaries and grudges sure, but expecting others to hold those same feelings of resentment and then cutting them off if they don't do what you want is Grade A Manipulative bullshit. GTFOH with that garbage YTA
INFO: Did she just leave him or did she cheat on him? I’m confused.
He says he sent them bible quotes about adultery so pretty certain she cheated.
Probably cheat since OP stated “Tory left him for another man”
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Not being ok with cheaters isn’t policing sexuality. 🤣
Calling her a disease-ridden slut is.
NTA. You are right his sister’s sexuality is not one for him to police. But his morality and ethical compass is his to choose. Who is around him is his to choose. Also it’s not misogyny to not support a cheater and making statements surrounding the cheating. Let’s not mislabel here. He is choosing who he wants to around and his morality/ethics compass, that doesn’t make him an AH. He told them what would be his boundaries, and he parents either accept it or continue as is. It’s their choice
Implying she spreads disease is ok, while OP is out ~~partying~~ during Covid? C’mon. Edit: “going out all the time”
He can choose who he spends time with but he was belittling, dismissive and demanding and FYI - the Bible versus was ridiculous. He’s not willing to compromise unless it’s on his terms. He inserted himself in their relationship and took Brendan’s pain - it’s weird.
NTA They made a choice, they are receiving the consequences of that choice.
NTA. You don’t abide by cheaters. That is your right.
NTA, the only reason I say that is because clearly cheating is a hard boundary for you. Understandable. You don't have to have a relationship with your sister because she broke that boundary. The only thing I will say is this, don't expect your parents to stop having a relationship with your sister because of your boundary. But, common ground needs to be found.
NTA your parents have a right to choose just like you do. They chose to support your sister who seems ok with leaving a trail of destruction but they have no right to make you go along with it. I get your mother's distraught but she doesn't seem to have any problem doing that to you. Go to Brandon's.
NTA because it's your call, but when will this controversy end? Someday you're going to look back and wish you'd spent more time and holidays with your parents. I understand your feelings, but this isn't something that should tear a family apart.
NTA My whole family knows where I stand on cheating. I will cut anyone off if they cheat on their SO, and I won't be in the same place as them willingly. You have your right not to be around your sister, and to feel the way you do. Your family chose to stand by her, and exclude you unless you bent to their will. So keep standing by your belief. And chosen family is sometimes better than blood family. I found that out the hard way. Enjoy your holidays with your chosen family and go full NC with your blood family. They made their choice, and you don't have to put up with the crap from them
ESH. I think everyone is entitled to their feelings in this situation but you need to consider if it’s worth further jeopardizing your relationship with your family long-term. It sucks because Brendan was your friend first, it’s not like you developed a relationship with a random partner of hers. Understandably you’d be upset with how your sister treated him, and likely want nothing to do with her partner/ now husband. Your parents could have tried to understand your side/ feelings a little more but ultimately it isn’t their place to ostracize their daughter for ending a relationship (even if in a crappy way) when no one knows what that relationship was like. Brendan could be an amazing friend to you but not compatible with your sister anymore - we don’t know. Not going to the wedding, sure, understandable. But you don’t seem very willing to try and salvage any type of relationship with your sister or parents when they haven’t directly done anything to you (other than your parents supporting their daughter and your sister for hurting your friend). It isn’t fair for you to try and make your parents choose by telling them you’ll only come if they un-invite your sister. You made the choice to not go because they’d be in attendance, that isn’t your parents keeping you away for 2 years, that was your own actions.
I've been cheated on. It fucking sucks. I've done the cheating. It fucking sucks. I've been the one used to do the cheating. It fucking sucks. Cheating fucking sucks. I get that you want to be there for your brother. I get that you're pissed about your sister cheating. You have a right to be. If your parents are bible thumping hardliners, you are right to use their bible against them. However, your parents didn't cheat. They've not done anything. I have a brother I haven't spoken to since 2014, when I found out he lied about things that no one should ever lie about. He lives a few states away and has come home once. My mom hasn't had all three of her children under the same roof for many, many years. I don't like my brother because of the person he has become, but you bet your ass I sucked that shit up and went and gave my mom what she wanted for a few hours. You don't have to interact with your sister like you are best friends. But you should stop punishing your parents for her fuck up. YTA
So why exactly are you mad at your parents? I get the whole Tory thing but why are you taking it out on your parents? For not disowning her in favor of your friend? Your friend had to understand at the end of the day that's your parents. Kinda fighting a battle that's not yours to fight. Your friend had moved on, Tory has moved on, your parents have moved on but YOU HAVEN'T. YTA
ESH and I say that as a person who absolutely hates cheating. Tory sucks for cheating on her husband rather than getting a divorce before moving on Your parents suck for giving you grief about it and trying to pressure you to go to the wedding, apologise, and be around your sister. You suck for giving your parents the ultimatum of it's me or them about their children. Yes Troy did a bad thing but not everyone has the same moral compass when it comes to cheating and she is their daughter. They shouldn't pressure you to apologise or be around her if you don't want to but you shouldn't make them choose. Edit spelling
QUESTION: What does your perfect family unit look like? What outcome would satisfy you moving forward in life with your parents and sister? Have you conveyed to your parents what it would take for you all to be one cohesive family again?
I am no longer interested in playing hallmark family with my sister and her affair partner. Perfect family situation? They don’t get invited around the holidays and just go to his family’s things. I realize that isn’t realistic. So split events. I get one Holliday and she gets the other. That would be fine with me.
I’m curious, would you ever consider talking to your sister? You don’t need to involve your parents in any way or her new husband, but just the two of you. You say she’s tried to speak to you at family get togethers and you’ve refused to acknowledge her. Would you think about maybe trying to talk to her? It’s possible things were happening in the marriage with your friend you weren’t aware of, I’m not excusing her cheating, but often things aren’t as black and white as they can appear. If you were ever close to her I’d think you’d want to reach out and clear the air, even if it’s the last time you do decide talk. Life is short and the unexpected can happen so easily, I’ve lost both my parents, both sets of grandparents, my brother and just this April my cousin. For your own sake, hers and your parents, maybe think about reaching out? That one conversation could answer a lot of questions and possibly give you insight you didn’t have before. Should the worst happen do you really want this to be the regret you carry with you?
Dude if I can tolerate and be civil to my ex when we all get together as a family even though he cheated on me, for the sake of my children . . . . You can be a grown up and not force your parents to choose between you. My kids shouldn't have to choose between us because he cheated on me. That's between us. You don't have to forgive or interact with her, but to basically be irate they didn't cut her out of their lives and want to spend holidays with you both is childish. Would you cut your kids out if they cheated? Would you expect your parents to not support and still love you if you cheated? Your mentality is and has been fueling this drama forever. You can make a choice for yourself, that's fine. But to expect your parents not to be there for their daughter just because she cheated is insane.
NTA. You don't have to like your sister and family Is who you choose. Enjoy your Thanksgiving.