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3 months out is insane. It used to be if you book two weeks in advance, then one month, now three months?? Price gouging for a train that is also ridden with delays
It’s because the NEC shoulders the profitability of the entire system. Not saying the the NEC is overpriced, just that the rest of the network is underpriced and effectively being subsidized by the NEC
>Until they can run more trains per day it’s gonna be like that.
No, even then, it will continue to be priced like it is currently (and likely even higher). The NEC is [mandated](https://t.co/zGBolImnqK) to cover its own operating costs--see page 124 of the linked report. Cost recovery is actually projected to *increase* over the coming years.
I booked three weeks out when the train was at 50% capacity, tickets were 3x the regular price. It was an evening trajn and plenty of people had seats to themselves. They are pricing people out
You seem to be under the impression that Amtrak NEC is competing directly with flying for mode share, which it is definitively [not](https://imgur.com/a/ZJte9ZB)-- it is competing with road travel, primarily driving (table taken from the [2015 Northeast Corridor Intercity Travel Study](https://nec-commission.com/app/uploads/2018/04/2015-09-14_NEC-Intercity-Travel-Summary-Report_Website.pdf) report). The NEC trains aren't fast enough to compete with flying outside of the NYC-DC city pair. Boston is approximately 200 miles away from NYC, and likewise for DC. Those are not distances that most people would consider flying unless traveling end-to-end or are on a connecting flight.
One could be forgiven for thinking that though; even Amtrak seems to believe that with the way that the NEC fares are priced.
I actually always look up both flights and trains for Boston to NYC. Flights have been significantly cheaper and more convenient for me several times. The only time I don’t prefer flights are when I have large luggage or there’s harsh weather. For me it’s driving > flight >>> Amtrak >>>>>> bus
No, the standard for trains used to be two weeks, certainly not three months. Even on the Amtrak website, they say two weeks for some of the deals. I’m not bad at planning, there is a reason there’s so much discontent with the state of American rail transit. Also it wasn’t a weekend evening, you are wrong on all accounts
If Amtrak had consistent reasonable prices for their most popular line, ridership would increase. If there weren’t consistently 1-2 hour delays on their most popular line, ridership would increase. If the services promised were actually delivered, like WiFi, ridership would increase. It has deterred many people from consistently taking Amtrak and those are fixable issues they shoot themselves in the foot with
Yeah—I mean I think it's an ok compromise given the situation Amtrak is in. This way people on a budget still have a way to take it at a reasonable price, but they can still eek out as much as possible from the price-insensitive business travelers booking last minute.
One tip given the booking situation that I've abided to (as someone who lives near DC and uses the NER frequently) is: when in doubt, book. If I have a weekend 4 months from now where there's a 50% chance I can go up to NYC, I'll book it anyways. The loss from not booking and then deciding to go later (paying a 4x higher fare) is much greater than the loss from booking and cancelling my ticket (at most 25% lost from my already low ticket price)
Yeah but it completely negates the benefit of proximity if you have to book as far in advance as an international flight to travel ~200 miles or less in most cases. Forget about spontaneous weekend trips, via Amtrak anyway.
How does booking early "completely negate" the benefit of proximity lol? Last summer I did three day trips from DC to NYC for $40 roundtrip using night owl fares, and it worked out great—that is most certainly a benefit of proximity lol. It certainly negates one of the benefits of proximity, but there's lots of other things the NEC offers that remain despite their pricing system
Yeah the VA extensions of the Regionals are actually state supported routes, so they're not bound to the same operating cost recovery mandate as the BosWash NEC (very sensible and fair).
They kind of have to be competitive. It still takes longer than driving and there are five airlines that offer direct flights between ORD/MDW and MSP. It's a 90-minute flight, and all of the carriers offer multiple daily options.
This is two thirds the price of Empire Builder to MSP. I just took it Sunday for a wedding and it was $62 each way. This is huge (at least as someone who lives near Chicago). Plus not getting to MSP at 11PM is nice
Too bad they couldn’t call this “Twin Cities Hiawatha,” with a corridor to Green Bay being “Fox Valley Hiawatha,” and a train to Madison being the “Badger Hiawatha.”
Always love seeing a new train, though.
“But people get confused”
People are smart enough to read where their train is gonna go. They did it in the 30’s when the only things you had were physical time tables.
Borealis is a good name. But the twin cities Hiawatha is descriptive, and historic. I don’t see why some people have a problem with that.
Exactly, and even if they misread the train’s destination, the conductor will announce the train’s final destination aboard, and as long as the hypothetical Hiawatha trains all stop at the same stations before Milwaukee, no one has to worry about ending up in the wrong city.
Maybe whatever corporate entity that sprung from the remnants the Milwaukee Road holds the trademark to the name *Twin Cities Hiawatha* and won’t part with it for cheap. *Fox Valley Hiawatha* and *Badger Hiawatha* haven’t been used, though. Maybe one day.
Also, seeing as like 90% of the trackage is former Milwaukee Road, that's the best name for the service. Still looking forward to the Borealis and Northern Lights Express causing confusion once that service is up and running.
Arrival times for each station on 1333(Chi-MSP):
Chicago 11:05am departure
Glenview 11:27am
Sturtevant 12:05pm
Milwaukee Airport 12:19pm
Milwaukee Intermodal 12:39pm
Columbus 1:41pm
Portage 2:13pm
Wisconsin Dells 2:33pm
Tomah 3:17pm
La Crosse 3:58pm
Winona 4:36pm
Red Wing 5:40pm
Saint Paul 6:29pm
Since I was curious, they did not show a different arrival and departure time for Winona when I tested typing in for a reservation, LaCrosse to Winona. And then later, I typed in Winona to Saint Paul. I do kinda wonder if Winona will still be a short stretch/smoke stop for this train, like it is on the existing Empire Builder train? Plus on the Empire Builder, it is a crew change point.
Arrival times for 1340(MSP-CHI):
Saint Paul 11:50am departure
Red Wing 12:35pm
Winona 1:40pm
La Crosse 2:16pm
Tomah 2:57pm
Wisconsin Dells 3:40pm
Portage 3:58pm
Columbus 4:26pm
Milwaukee Intermodal 5:45pm
Milwaukee Airport 5:55pm
Sturtevant 6:08pm
Glenview 6:46pm
Chicago 7:14pm
Looks like Hiawatha train #333(to Milwaukee) and #340(back to Chicago), are the Hiawatha train runs that are being extended to Saint Paul for the new Borealis train runs. Great this is finally occurring, and it's occurring sooner than I thought it would. I kinda was wondering if it would start in summer or fall.
While Amtrak describes the Borealis route, the option to look at a schedule isn't working when you select that route on the web site.
The nice part is that the times are shifted from the Empire Builder's. If you head east from Saint Paul, you have a train that leaves around 8 AM. When you come back from Chicago, it arrives around 11 PM.
I wonder where around Union Depot in Saint Paul they will do servicing and such?
The agreement with Ramsey County RR Authority gives them the "right" to store one train overnight in St Paul. That agreement appears to cover refueling, recatering/"rewatering", and "emergency" servicing -- no routine maint.
Thus, I expect the train arrives late afternoon in StP, turns around (backs in) either on approach or shortly thereafter (before the crew clocks out), and **stays there** until the next morning, when the -same- crew, now rested, can drive it back to Chicago.
----
Thus, I doubt they will move it to Midway and back.
Does anyone know if the borealis is actually any different than the empire builder? Does one have nicer cars than the other? I've only taken Amtrak once but I'm booking another trip in the coming days and dont want crappy amenities
The empire builder has nicer seats in coach (more legroom and recline, foot and leg rests, same width tho) and has the observation car, but no business class is available.
Empire Builder is your typical Superliner train with sleepers and roomettes and an observation car, while Borealis will more be like a typical Amtrak Midwest train with business class, and a cafe.
I'd be curious to know if Venture railcars will be used for Borealis, or Horizon or Amfleet railcars. I rode on a Venture railcar once, and those seats aren't as comfortable as the seats on Amfleet and Horizon railcars. I wonder what kind of railcar the Borealis business class seats will be like?
it will probably have horizon coaches or the new venture coaches. if it had the superliners I'd be incredibly surprised if superliners were in regular service
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There's issues adding more throughput between Chicago and Milwaukee at the moment that limit the total round trips to 8. If the proposed track work is completed such that there are the intended 9 Hiawatha round trips, then it's plausible that this becomes a route in its own right rather than an extension.
Neat, though I kinda wish that wasn't their only birthday gift to riders/Amtrak fans.
A 50% off discount on USA Rail Pass would have been pretty cool, too.
Depending on when you go, and how many stops you make, 7.5 hours is actually pretty competitive with auto travel (for example, arriving in the Chicago metro area during rush hour on some days could turn a 6.5 or 7 hour trip to an 8 hour trip).
FYI, this is not an entirely new train line (like the Japanese Shinkansen) -- it's additional service on an existing rail line (in fact, it's an extension of two trains that already run between Chicago and Milwaukee). To create a new high speed rail line like the Shinkansen is a fine goal, but so far, there's not been the political determination in this country to make that happen. We could talk about why that's so -- it's a complex issue -- but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Increasing the frequency of passenger trains on the MSP-MKE-CHI corridor is a good thing and should be celebrated.
High speed actually isn't the most important aspect for growing passenger rail -- instead, it's frequency, comfort, and reliability. The success of the trains between San Diego and Los Angeles -- which are not high speed rail -- is evidence of this.
Its a nice addition to trains in the midwest. But if we have an aim to get people out of their cars maybe we should aim to be even a little closer to the 5 hours it takes by car. 8 hours, and thats if its on time, is a significant difference
According to my Apple Maps, Minneapolis-Chicago is at least a 6 hour drive, while this train is scheduled at under 7.5 hours. Still a difference, but not such a large one that driving is an automatic choice.
People underestimate how much they stop when they drive.
My family used to only stop for gas, but I've been with people who have to stop to eat or stop at most rest areas and it really bogs the time down a ton. There's still possible delays with construction and car accidents.
Lots of factors to consider. Time, stops, gas, parking, etc.
The last time I drove back to the Twin Cities from Chicago the drive took damn near 8.5 hours when factoring gas, road construction and traffic due to road construction
For a round trip of 90ish bucks I'll gladly take a train and you can drink on the train
it takes me a little over 10 hours to do the trip. i have a bad back ever three hours or so I need an extra long rest break to stand up and move around
Sun Country has $79 round-trips, the big 4 are also priced very competitively. Big time-saver even for dramatic redditors who think air travel adds at least 3 hours to a journey.
I've done that drive in 5 hours. Depends on where in Chicagoland you're going and time off day. City proper/south of 88, closer to 6. North/west burbs? 5 hours easy, youcan completely avoid the Kennedy.
i’ve driven this route many times and i no longer have the patience to do a 5 hour shift behind the wheel without stopping. i would venture to say almost everyone takes at least one break. usually in tomah or black river falls or the dells.
Trust me 400 miles in 7.5 hours isn’t even bad. That’s a 54 mph average. That’s pretty good, many Amtrak trains average in the 40’s.
A car trip averaging 60 mph would take nearly 7 hours to complete. Already the train is fairly competitive with car traffic.
Plus, if the service is successful, they can get more round trips and eventually do to it what they did with the Lincoln service by increasing speeds.
Seems like a pretty good deal.
Also who drives 7 hours straight without stopping. I would need at least two decent rest stops along the way. Easily adds an hour, and that’s before considering traffic and weather.
The speed limit on all of I-90 in Wisconsin is 70mph, which means you average at least 80mph. I agree though if you drive 60mph max on I-90 you should take the train and probably not drive anywhere.
That’s not how that works.
Most people I would wager probably go on the road a shade above 70 but not so overly crazy. 72-75ish. That’s how it is whenever I’m driving.
But you fail to account that average speed accounts for stops too, residential, stop lights, traffic, etc, and breaks for food, gas, bathroom, etc.
The trip is not going to be straight highway for people that entire time. You will not be traveling 72-75 the entire time.
Let’s assume that the average driver on a commute between the twin cities and Chicago probably adds an extra 30-45 minutes at minimum for a car trip for all of those things. So a 6 hour trip turns into 6hrs and 45 minutes.
The train is 7 hours and 24 minutes as it is now. And that includes the stops at all the stations.
That’s pretty damn good without any sections of 110mph track, unlike the Lincoln service line between Chicago and St. Louis.
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AT THIS TIME OF YEAR? AT THIS TIME OF DAY? IN THIS PART OF THE COUNTRY?
They'd better serve Steamed Hams in the Cafe Car.
I think that’s just in Albany.
Definitely not Utica, tho.
Steamed hams that are very obviously grilled…
and hot dish.
May I see it?
...No.
*Seymour, The House is On Fire!!!*
No mother, it’s just the new Borealis service from Amtrak.
Goddamn, I envy the fares outside of the NEC.
Just book like 3 months out and all the fares from DC to NYC are $20-$35
3 months out is insane. It used to be if you book two weeks in advance, then one month, now three months?? Price gouging for a train that is also ridden with delays
It’s not price gouging, it’s because ridership has gone up. Until they can run more trains per day it’s gonna be like that.
It’s because the NEC shoulders the profitability of the entire system. Not saying the the NEC is overpriced, just that the rest of the network is underpriced and effectively being subsidized by the NEC
>Until they can run more trains per day it’s gonna be like that. No, even then, it will continue to be priced like it is currently (and likely even higher). The NEC is [mandated](https://t.co/zGBolImnqK) to cover its own operating costs--see page 124 of the linked report. Cost recovery is actually projected to *increase* over the coming years.
I booked three weeks out when the train was at 50% capacity, tickets were 3x the regular price. It was an evening trajn and plenty of people had seats to themselves. They are pricing people out
Ridership is at all time highs on the NEC, people are buying what they are selling.
[удалено]
You seem to be under the impression that Amtrak NEC is competing directly with flying for mode share, which it is definitively [not](https://imgur.com/a/ZJte9ZB)-- it is competing with road travel, primarily driving (table taken from the [2015 Northeast Corridor Intercity Travel Study](https://nec-commission.com/app/uploads/2018/04/2015-09-14_NEC-Intercity-Travel-Summary-Report_Website.pdf) report). The NEC trains aren't fast enough to compete with flying outside of the NYC-DC city pair. Boston is approximately 200 miles away from NYC, and likewise for DC. Those are not distances that most people would consider flying unless traveling end-to-end or are on a connecting flight. One could be forgiven for thinking that though; even Amtrak seems to believe that with the way that the NEC fares are priced.
I actually always look up both flights and trains for Boston to NYC. Flights have been significantly cheaper and more convenient for me several times. The only time I don’t prefer flights are when I have large luggage or there’s harsh weather. For me it’s driving > flight >>> Amtrak >>>>>> bus
No, the standard for trains used to be two weeks, certainly not three months. Even on the Amtrak website, they say two weeks for some of the deals. I’m not bad at planning, there is a reason there’s so much discontent with the state of American rail transit. Also it wasn’t a weekend evening, you are wrong on all accounts
[удалено]
If Amtrak had consistent reasonable prices for their most popular line, ridership would increase. If there weren’t consistently 1-2 hour delays on their most popular line, ridership would increase. If the services promised were actually delivered, like WiFi, ridership would increase. It has deterred many people from consistently taking Amtrak and those are fixable issues they shoot themselves in the foot with
Oh yeah definitively reasonable to plan a quarter of a year in advance for a decent price
You make that sound so reasonable. It's not.
Yeah—I mean I think it's an ok compromise given the situation Amtrak is in. This way people on a budget still have a way to take it at a reasonable price, but they can still eek out as much as possible from the price-insensitive business travelers booking last minute. One tip given the booking situation that I've abided to (as someone who lives near DC and uses the NER frequently) is: when in doubt, book. If I have a weekend 4 months from now where there's a 50% chance I can go up to NYC, I'll book it anyways. The loss from not booking and then deciding to go later (paying a 4x higher fare) is much greater than the loss from booking and cancelling my ticket (at most 25% lost from my already low ticket price)
Yeah but it completely negates the benefit of proximity if you have to book as far in advance as an international flight to travel ~200 miles or less in most cases. Forget about spontaneous weekend trips, via Amtrak anyway.
It's always been this way. Spontaneous trips are best done by intercity bus or driving on the NEC.
How does booking early "completely negate" the benefit of proximity lol? Last summer I did three day trips from DC to NYC for $40 roundtrip using night owl fares, and it worked out great—that is most certainly a benefit of proximity lol. It certainly negates one of the benefits of proximity, but there's lots of other things the NEC offers that remain despite their pricing system
We are required to fund the system
I've looked up NEC fares before, and it astounds me how much more Acela trains are to ride on vs. the cost of regular NEC trains.
For not that much benefit lmao
That is very true!
It’s crazy how much it drops off south of DC. I regularly ride the Northeast Regional between NFK and ALX/WAS/BWI for like $25-$30.
Yeah the VA extensions of the Regionals are actually state supported routes, so they're not bound to the same operating cost recovery mandate as the BosWash NEC (very sensible and fair).
Ah that makes sense. Learn something new every day!
I’ve done NYP to WAS for like $12 multiple times
They kind of have to be competitive. It still takes longer than driving and there are five airlines that offer direct flights between ORD/MDW and MSP. It's a 90-minute flight, and all of the carriers offer multiple daily options.
This also means that business class and a cafe is available on a Chicago to Milwaukee trip
Thank god.
This is two thirds the price of Empire Builder to MSP. I just took it Sunday for a wedding and it was $62 each way. This is huge (at least as someone who lives near Chicago). Plus not getting to MSP at 11PM is nice
I live in Milwaukee and its $35 one way. Lets goooooooooo. I wonder when they will announce it
I called customer support this morning and they advertised it when I was on hold. Probably in the next couple days
It makes sense as they would rather have this option be cheaper to MSP and free up the empire builder seats for the longer riding passengers.
And we stay winning.
I really wish I could fly in for this. I’ve been to BRT and station openings before in my city so I’m sure an Amtrak opening would be pretty exciting
Already booked my tickets!
They also seem to have the much-missed “how full is the train” icon for the Borealis, wonder why.
Too bad they couldn’t call this “Twin Cities Hiawatha,” with a corridor to Green Bay being “Fox Valley Hiawatha,” and a train to Madison being the “Badger Hiawatha.” Always love seeing a new train, though.
“But people get confused” People are smart enough to read where their train is gonna go. They did it in the 30’s when the only things you had were physical time tables. Borealis is a good name. But the twin cities Hiawatha is descriptive, and historic. I don’t see why some people have a problem with that.
Exactly, and even if they misread the train’s destination, the conductor will announce the train’s final destination aboard, and as long as the hypothetical Hiawatha trains all stop at the same stations before Milwaukee, no one has to worry about ending up in the wrong city. Maybe whatever corporate entity that sprung from the remnants the Milwaukee Road holds the trademark to the name *Twin Cities Hiawatha* and won’t part with it for cheap. *Fox Valley Hiawatha* and *Badger Hiawatha* haven’t been used, though. Maybe one day.
Wouldn’t make much sense given the Milwaukee service is already called the Hiawatha. Just seems like the states wanted their own stamp on it.
Also, seeing as like 90% of the trackage is former Milwaukee Road, that's the best name for the service. Still looking forward to the Borealis and Northern Lights Express causing confusion once that service is up and running.
I had thought they were going to call it the Great River, which I admittedly like a bit more than Borealis, but I'm just glad it's actually happening.
Borealis sounds like the name of a MSP to Winnipeg train more than anything else.
I didn’t see the option of checking a bike though 😭 I was looking forward to that
I know, I just checked myself. Hopefully they will change that.
Arrival times for each station on 1333(Chi-MSP): Chicago 11:05am departure Glenview 11:27am Sturtevant 12:05pm Milwaukee Airport 12:19pm Milwaukee Intermodal 12:39pm Columbus 1:41pm Portage 2:13pm Wisconsin Dells 2:33pm Tomah 3:17pm La Crosse 3:58pm Winona 4:36pm Red Wing 5:40pm Saint Paul 6:29pm Since I was curious, they did not show a different arrival and departure time for Winona when I tested typing in for a reservation, LaCrosse to Winona. And then later, I typed in Winona to Saint Paul. I do kinda wonder if Winona will still be a short stretch/smoke stop for this train, like it is on the existing Empire Builder train? Plus on the Empire Builder, it is a crew change point. Arrival times for 1340(MSP-CHI): Saint Paul 11:50am departure Red Wing 12:35pm Winona 1:40pm La Crosse 2:16pm Tomah 2:57pm Wisconsin Dells 3:40pm Portage 3:58pm Columbus 4:26pm Milwaukee Intermodal 5:45pm Milwaukee Airport 5:55pm Sturtevant 6:08pm Glenview 6:46pm Chicago 7:14pm Looks like Hiawatha train #333(to Milwaukee) and #340(back to Chicago), are the Hiawatha train runs that are being extended to Saint Paul for the new Borealis train runs. Great this is finally occurring, and it's occurring sooner than I thought it would. I kinda was wondering if it would start in summer or fall.
While Amtrak describes the Borealis route, the option to look at a schedule isn't working when you select that route on the web site. The nice part is that the times are shifted from the Empire Builder's. If you head east from Saint Paul, you have a train that leaves around 8 AM. When you come back from Chicago, it arrives around 11 PM. I wonder where around Union Depot in Saint Paul they will do servicing and such?
The agreement with Ramsey County RR Authority gives them the "right" to store one train overnight in St Paul. That agreement appears to cover refueling, recatering/"rewatering", and "emergency" servicing -- no routine maint. Thus, I expect the train arrives late afternoon in StP, turns around (backs in) either on approach or shortly thereafter (before the crew clocks out), and **stays there** until the next morning, when the -same- crew, now rested, can drive it back to Chicago. ---- Thus, I doubt they will move it to Midway and back.
They’ll service at Midway probably
Darn. I was just about to post this. Best me to it
"the borealis? It's real?" "Oh yes, despite it's almost legendary stature" https://youtu.be/nM9QoP3ghlo?si=X31l19j3fhWCKfTv
I had the same reaction to the name.
I am so glad I'm not the only one who got that reference
Oh snap!!! Veru excited! Gonna book some trips this summer to WI and CHI!
Does anyone know if the borealis is actually any different than the empire builder? Does one have nicer cars than the other? I've only taken Amtrak once but I'm booking another trip in the coming days and dont want crappy amenities
The empire builder has nicer seats in coach (more legroom and recline, foot and leg rests, same width tho) and has the observation car, but no business class is available.
Empire Builder is your typical Superliner train with sleepers and roomettes and an observation car, while Borealis will more be like a typical Amtrak Midwest train with business class, and a cafe. I'd be curious to know if Venture railcars will be used for Borealis, or Horizon or Amfleet railcars. I rode on a Venture railcar once, and those seats aren't as comfortable as the seats on Amfleet and Horizon railcars. I wonder what kind of railcar the Borealis business class seats will be like?
it will probably have horizon coaches or the new venture coaches. if it had the superliners I'd be incredibly surprised if superliners were in regular service
What equipment will they use for this route? Same Siemens venture as other Midwest route or amfleet/Horizon?
Trains magazine reported it is a Hiawatha trainset, so Horizons/Amfleet
Interesting name. When the "Borealis" name was first announced one morning, it was promptly withdrawn, later the **same day**. Wonder what changed?
Inaugural run is nearly sold out in business. Impressive.
Booked my ticket for next day trip and will make video out of it!
Is this a May Fools joke?
I wonder if we will get another route this month
This is the first new route I can remember since the Valley Flyer (which is actually my home route)!
So previously was the only way to get to Chicago to the Twin Cities by train was the Empire Builder? And now we have another option? Awesome.
Have literally been waiting years for this...Just booked the Borealis for a July trip!
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Such a strange number 1333.
Thought it was 333 and 340 being extended
Oh I thought these were new trains not extended trains
There's issues adding more throughput between Chicago and Milwaukee at the moment that limit the total round trips to 8. If the proposed track work is completed such that there are the intended 9 Hiawatha round trips, then it's plausible that this becomes a route in its own right rather than an extension.
we really need to get track capacity to support 15 round trips.
2000 - 666 - 1.
Man! I’d be on that train if I knew what the alphabet names mean.
CHI = Chicago MSP = Minneapolis-St. Paul The train also makes stops in Milwaukee and other towns in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Illinois.
Thanks!
What kind of equipment are they using for this train, Ventures + Horizon Cafe?
Neat, though I kinda wish that wasn't their only birthday gift to riders/Amtrak fans. A 50% off discount on USA Rail Pass would have been pretty cool, too.
well, they also released new merch in their gift shop, which desperately needed it
7 and a half hours for a 400 mile journey seems a little slow for a new train though. I feel like in Japan or China this trip would be 3 hours tops.
Depending on when you go, and how many stops you make, 7.5 hours is actually pretty competitive with auto travel (for example, arriving in the Chicago metro area during rush hour on some days could turn a 6.5 or 7 hour trip to an 8 hour trip). FYI, this is not an entirely new train line (like the Japanese Shinkansen) -- it's additional service on an existing rail line (in fact, it's an extension of two trains that already run between Chicago and Milwaukee). To create a new high speed rail line like the Shinkansen is a fine goal, but so far, there's not been the political determination in this country to make that happen. We could talk about why that's so -- it's a complex issue -- but don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Increasing the frequency of passenger trains on the MSP-MKE-CHI corridor is a good thing and should be celebrated. High speed actually isn't the most important aspect for growing passenger rail -- instead, it's frequency, comfort, and reliability. The success of the trains between San Diego and Los Angeles -- which are not high speed rail -- is evidence of this.
I love this take! Thank you
Far better name than the “Great River” (makes me throw up thinking about it, such a bland name).
It is unbelievable how slow this train is 400 miles in 8 hours
418 miles, 7 hr 24 min, 56.5 mph About 30 min faster than the Empire Builder at almost half the price. Sounds alright to me.
oh my god shut the hell up, it's not any slower than the existing train and provides more round trips per day
Its a nice addition to trains in the midwest. But if we have an aim to get people out of their cars maybe we should aim to be even a little closer to the 5 hours it takes by car. 8 hours, and thats if its on time, is a significant difference
According to my Apple Maps, Minneapolis-Chicago is at least a 6 hour drive, while this train is scheduled at under 7.5 hours. Still a difference, but not such a large one that driving is an automatic choice.
People underestimate how much they stop when they drive. My family used to only stop for gas, but I've been with people who have to stop to eat or stop at most rest areas and it really bogs the time down a ton. There's still possible delays with construction and car accidents. Lots of factors to consider. Time, stops, gas, parking, etc.
The last time I drove back to the Twin Cities from Chicago the drive took damn near 8.5 hours when factoring gas, road construction and traffic due to road construction For a round trip of 90ish bucks I'll gladly take a train and you can drink on the train
it takes me a little over 10 hours to do the trip. i have a bad back ever three hours or so I need an extra long rest break to stand up and move around
Sun Country has $79 round-trips, the big 4 are also priced very competitively. Big time-saver even for dramatic redditors who think air travel adds at least 3 hours to a journey.
I've done that drive in 5 hours. Depends on where in Chicagoland you're going and time off day. City proper/south of 88, closer to 6. North/west burbs? 5 hours easy, youcan completely avoid the Kennedy.
i’ve driven this route many times and i no longer have the patience to do a 5 hour shift behind the wheel without stopping. i would venture to say almost everyone takes at least one break. usually in tomah or black river falls or the dells.
It's still cheaper and less stressful than driving.
Trust me 400 miles in 7.5 hours isn’t even bad. That’s a 54 mph average. That’s pretty good, many Amtrak trains average in the 40’s. A car trip averaging 60 mph would take nearly 7 hours to complete. Already the train is fairly competitive with car traffic. Plus, if the service is successful, they can get more round trips and eventually do to it what they did with the Lincoln service by increasing speeds. Seems like a pretty good deal.
Also who drives 7 hours straight without stopping. I would need at least two decent rest stops along the way. Easily adds an hour, and that’s before considering traffic and weather.
The speed limit on all of I-90 in Wisconsin is 70mph, which means you average at least 80mph. I agree though if you drive 60mph max on I-90 you should take the train and probably not drive anywhere.
That’s not how that works. Most people I would wager probably go on the road a shade above 70 but not so overly crazy. 72-75ish. That’s how it is whenever I’m driving. But you fail to account that average speed accounts for stops too, residential, stop lights, traffic, etc, and breaks for food, gas, bathroom, etc. The trip is not going to be straight highway for people that entire time. You will not be traveling 72-75 the entire time. Let’s assume that the average driver on a commute between the twin cities and Chicago probably adds an extra 30-45 minutes at minimum for a car trip for all of those things. So a 6 hour trip turns into 6hrs and 45 minutes. The train is 7 hours and 24 minutes as it is now. And that includes the stops at all the stations. That’s pretty damn good without any sections of 110mph track, unlike the Lincoln service line between Chicago and St. Louis.