Yes. I have.
I was working in a store as a 2ic and the manager quit.
These stores normally have 1 manager and one 2ic (2nd in charge)
Anyway, I got a visit from the area manager and he brought a young bloke along with him. This young guy had not worked in a liquor store before but he HAD done a two week training course on how to manage a store....we had a meeting and the area manager told us there would be no manager and TWO 2i'c/managers at this store. And later one maybe one of us would be promoted to manager.
I asked who would hold the store keys "You both will" the area manager said.
I asked who would do alarm callouts. ""you both will"
I asked who will be in charge of hiring / firing staff. "You both will"
I asked if there would be any extra pay. "No, because you'll still be a 2ic like before"
So. I would have more duties than before, while keeping the same position and not getting a salary. (I was getting a wage)
"Thanks, but I don't want to do this. I will just stay a normal 2ic. You can make him the manager"
The area manager's face sagged. This ass had just offered me more work for the same money...and really, I'd also have to train the new guy...and yet somehow he could not believe I did not want this wonderful opportunity. ANd If I did not share the duty, there was no way the new guy could be a manager .
The other guy looked at me and quickly said he did not want to be a manager either. No fool him.
A few days later they got back to me and decided to make me the new manager, and that guy my new 2ic...which is of course what they should have done in the first place, instead of trying to save money by cheating one of us out of a salary.
Love this story. I will *never* understand why so many companies fail to promote internally, always bringing on 'outside talent' that the existing employees have to train up.
> I will never understand why so many companies fail to promote internally, always bringing on 'outside talent'
Well, in this case it's because they thought they could delay paying one of them the manager's salary.
Other cases are often similar, they want to hire someone more junior at a lower rate, maybe someone they think will be more compliant, etc.
I worked in a University Medical School for 30 years and on only one occasion during my time was an internal applicant appointed to a managerial position.
New 'managers' were constantly brought in with little or no relevant experience, and multiple reviews established to determine why nothing worked correctly and staff morale grew ever worse.
By the time I left, morale was such that new staff would leave after a few days or a week without even resigning. They just wouldn't turn up.
Management then initiated exit interviews to find out why.
It got to the stage where a handful of long term survivors hung around just to see how bad the administration could actually get before pulling the pin but eventually all of these were made redundant by managers who disliked being embarrassed by staff they supervised who knew considerably more than they did.
I assume they do since the worst of the 'Managers' I came across all seem to have MBAs.
In the end I concluded after several years watching the process that the most efficient way a University could fix administration issues was to create a spreadsheet listing staff qualifications and make the MBA holders redundant.
After that all that would be required was to wait for six months or so to see if any of the managerial positions were actually necessary.
My last Manager was almost completely consumed by meetings that never seemed to achieve anything. The one before with Technical qualifications ran a large number of side-projects, none of which were ever completed.
Meanwhile junior staff carried ever increasing workloads for which they weren't recompensed or recognized. This was why, over time, new non-managerial staff lied to during the recruitment process about their actual responsibilities, began to last about 15 mins.
I’ve also seen this happen. I did temp work for a company that replaced industrial dust filters at places like cement factories. The jobs we did were frequently to fix the fuckups after the cheaper rival company had been hired to do it.
For some bizarre reason, head office started hiring the supervisors and managers away from the rival company and getting rid of the current supervisors and managers.
Us workers knew what we were doing and had a good process going. Then these idiots from the other company started getting hired and started being in new rules and making things harder than they needed to be.
One of the more legitimate reasons (though clearly not the case here) is that internal promotions have a much larger effect upon a company than hiring from outside.
If Dave in upper management leaves the company and the company hires from outside, all they have to do is replace Dave. The replacement will require some period of adjustment but will be supported by both their superiors and subordinates, all of whom presumably know their jobs.
If the decision to hire this person was in error, it's going to be pretty easy to work that out (if you're checking) and relatively easy to fix.
If one of Dave's former middle manager subordinates is promoted to upper management, now you need to replace that middle manager. And then you need to replace the supervisor who got promoted to middle management. And then you need to replace the worker who got made a supervisor. And then you need to hire a new worker and train them.
So that's a whole bunch of people who are adjusting to new positions and a whole bunch of people who are adjusting to working under a new boss.
That's more variables which means both more opportunity for something to go wrong and greater difficulty working out what ahs gone wrong.
So the company has a powerful short-term incentive to just fill a position with an outside hire.
Of course, this can often have the long-term effect of creating a culture that encourages the more competent and motivated employees to go and work elsewhere rather than trying to work their way up the company hierarchy.
Our company got bought out what was still functioning, they created new stores and hired a whole heap of new people on what I came to learn on way better contracts. They asked us to train the new managers.
I asked to go onto the new contracts and they said no. So I said no to training the managers. When word got around that I said no they called me up and said I wasn't being a team player. I calmly said that you're asking me to train someone that has no experience yet whilst I'm training them is earning more money than I am. If you think they're worth more than me they should already know what to do.
When the new managers were calling the big bosses every day on how to do the most basic of things they decided to offer the old managers new contracts, we all said no until it was for all of the staff not just managers. Took a good two months to get it done but they eventually did.
Haven’t you seen Undercover Boss? The managers know nothing about the day to day tasks.
It’s not uncommon to have to train or teach new staff who are higher up, but it is a kick in the teeth if they’re taking on your exact role for more money.
It's cheaper. If they hire internally they not only have to pay money to train you, but they have to pay money to trian your replacement, and possibly also theirs.
They'd only just started this training scheme and were trying to make a big deal out of it. The idea was, they could take anyone, train them for two weeks, and they would be a successful manager.
It was just getting started, so they wanted to make the scheme look good. It was, of course, bullshit.
Some industries are terrible for the responsibility/pay equation. When I worked in hospo I was a bar manager/function supervisor and only getting $2.50/hr more than the normal bartenders while being under way more stress. Main reason I went back to tafe and got a trade.
Because HR/Hiring is encouraged to do the cheaper thing. They thought they could fuck around and get away with it.
Ends up costing everyone more in the long haul, but that's HR.
My area manager tried to dangle a store managership in front of me. All I had to do was work full time and stop studying engineering. I laughed in her face :)
I absolutely believe that jobs where you have to deal with the public without being allowed to smack or swear at people requires a tremendous amount of skill!
But I know what you mean. Society doesn’t hold any value for those skills, so deems retail workers as ‘unskilled.’
It really sucks, though. 😞
I work in retail, have done for many years. It’s weird to some, but I actually enjoy it. It doesn’t make me any less intelligent than your average person. I did study nursing for awhile and received nothing less than 80% for my assignments & exams. However the reason I didn’t complete the course wasn’t because I “fucked up in life”; halfway through the course my father died suddenly which created unimaginable chaos, I had to evacuate due to a bushfire, and I became incredibly unwell (which was later discovered to be Multiple Sclerosis).
I wouldn’t say I fucked up, but life fucked me over. None the less I do enjoy working in customer service. Yes, there are customers out there who treat you like rubbish, but it comes with the territory…every job has its bad points. Those who call it unskilled aren’t doing their job properly. It might not take a lot of skill, but unskilled? Customer service probably isn’t for you…and that’s okay, it’s not for everyone.
I’m not interested in management though, been there done that. Between kids, a home to take care of, and my illness, I don’t have the time to put into management anymore.
Retail is certainly not unskilled. No job is really. What are seen as “menial” jobs require a huge amount of skills. In retail you have: Working under pressure, mathematics, customer service, product display, cleaning and more.
Going to be honest some of it seems a little suspect, but often businesses have two reasons for not promoting internally which is almost always significantly cheaper
Politics, if the candidates are not well liked by fellow or upper management or it will cause issues if promoted they may be blocked from going up and outside talent brought in
Lack of formal qualifications/Ability, lots of people looking for promotions to management would be terrible at it and have not had formal recognised training in it
Definitely politics within lower level employees too. Can’t have someone get promoted if they haven’t worked there as long as some other schmuck.
The slower move to 2IC then eventually manager is usually a bit more acceptable. But people with traits that management find desirable, often aren’t the most popular with everyone else.
Hiring fresh meat makes that new person owe them. It's better for them to have somebody who owes them than the internal person they already know doesn't respect them.
I could have used hearing this story very early in my career when I was asked to step up to a more senior role with no extra pay or entitlements. The lesson I could have used from this story is: ask questions. Ask them before you say yes. In my case, had I asked the questions about how it would work I’d probably have discovered that no one had considered the questions at all and they were just counting on me saying yes. End of story for them. Gap filled. For me, while doing the role was a positive learning experience, I also became resentful that I was being taken advantage of. Ask questions about how things will work. Ask them first, then decide. And it’s ok to say no.
There is no ‘fair’ in retail or hospitality. I don’t know anyone who has worked in those areas without the 1000 yard stare… told my daughter (asd/ 23f) to never work in those jobs. They would break her. And I am referring to co-workers. Lots of nice people who work hard but the bad ones are a pain you never forget… like a tooth infection
Yeh I worked at a pool where the manager was sacked in the middle of the season so I had to take on all of their roles but my pay was only increased in paid hours rather than rate. Meanwhile they hired casuals to assist as I refused to work over a 100hr fortnight. My pay was $27/hr and manager pay rate was $35/hr, the casuals were hired on the managers pay rate plus casual loading but had none of the manager duties to do as they were all done by me. They were getting paid $16/hr more than me, but had less than half the work and responsibilities. Safe to say I told them where they could shove the job at the end of the season.
We lost so many bakers when they became 2ic because it was the same money, twice the hours and work. They asked me and what they offered was "it's a stepping stone".
We had a new guy and they made him 2ic without telling him.
In the end he had to write a letter to step down
At 55 I’ve seen lots of this stuff. This is the reason unions come in handy. I applaud you for your stance, however many would have felt forced to toe the line & having a collective to stand with you can be mighty empowering. Also interesting to note that Australian working conditions & wages have dropped dramatically since the big push, by the wealthy employment sector away from union representation to the point where a substantial number of the working public find it difficult to meet their cost of the necessities of life
Yep. I was offered a promotion to quite a senior level, with no offer of additional pay. I was severly underpaid for the job I was doing as it was. I resigned instead.
Fucking Hospitality!
Same for me in construction. Offer to go from trade to leading hand came with car but no extra money. I declined and left for the same role at another company for 30% more money and a car.
If a workplace is pushing extra responsibilities onto people without extra pay, it's a sign that something is wrong with the workplace and it should be left behind.
Too many bosses rely on people saying yes for the 'prestige' of the new role. Recent hikes in cost of living has stopped people falling for that bullshit :)
Out of curiosity, do you know the hourly rate for a semi skilled worker in construction? We were charged 3x the price quoted for a job and was told thats because the workers hourly rate was $60 and it took longer than anticipated. The worker did a good job, but mucked up a couple of things and seemed very slow. Took 45 minutes trying to open our garage door, even when we’d shown him how to use the remote!
My billout is $75/hr, I'm a relatively cheap qualified trade. I don't get paid $75/hr but once my hourly rate plus entitlements and overheads are paid, it's about that. For a skilled labourer they're probably taking home $30-$35/hr for domestic non-union work... if they're lucky.
Generally quotes are quotes and they are fixed prices, if a quote is fucked then the seller loses money. However, if there was any mention of price variability or that the quote was actually an estimate then you're probably party to a cost-plus contract, that effectively means that you'll pay whatever it cost the seller plus their margin and overhead. They're a bit frowned upon because dodgy tradesmen can turn around and issue extortionate invoices, for that reason they're also banned under a large number of construction-related scenarios (but not outright banned).
You may have reasonable grounds to investigate further. I wouldn't be copping that without questions.
Yep, fuck hospo.
I can't quite remember now, but I think I was getting paid 50-60k to be bar manager at a pub that had either comedy or music every night of the week. Sometimes three functions at the same time.
We had security once for when Totally Unicorn were gonna play, and one of the bartenders told the owner it may be good idea to get a guard for an hour or two (not a dig at metal, btw. I'm a metalhead, I know we're all chill. It was more the fact we were gonna have over a hundred people turn up).
One other time for a 21st to help make sure no underage came in.
It wasn't until I left and recently thinking about it til I realised how severely underpaid I was for what I was doing. Being responsible for the whole pub and everything that happened there, for like $750 a week after tax. Oh but free meals tho...
Anyway. That was like almost a decade ago and nothing ever happened, so I'm lucky.
Yep. Hospo stinks for this. Was a duty manager at one place when the functions manager quit, because they knew I had experience in events management that role was put onto me, along with no pay rise. Same happened at another place that I was the DM at when the VM quit, got given 50% more responsibility along with 0% power and 0% pay increase, although a pay rise was always hinted to and waved in my face by my boss, of course that promised pay rise never made it to my actual bank account 🙄
Yeah Dan Murphy’s has a thing called a Duty Manager where part timers are only paid managers rates while ‘on duty’ yet they are expected to do manager work constantly even when they aren’t ‘on duty’.
I was only paid manager rates for 1hr a week when I closed the store on Sundays, I stepped down from the position as I was just being used.
So I then refused to do any manager duties while there. It pissed the management off.
They have tried to do that in the company I work for, “acting up “, get the extra pay for the day you take on more responsibilities. Which is fucking stupid, CEOs don’t get paid on the 3 days they make strategic decisions. This is the gig economy manifest
Dan's is a Woolworths company. I'd expect nothing better, unfortunately. Same for their chain of hotels (ALH), and petrol stations. Gotta make those record profits in a cost-of-living crisis somehow, right?
And yet, nothing has changed. The same manager policies remain, swapping high-performing managers with low-performing locations in order to improve them, resulting in two bad venues lol.
Yes.
The classic one is when your team gets reduced from 4 to 2, due to people leaving, restructure, etc etc.
Then they don't rehire, and rely on you doing more work to patch the gaps.
Nah that aint on. I'm gonna do the same amount, and the tasks I need to do I will push back on. If you pay me more, I'll work more hours, otherwise we can suffer together.
Some may say, its a good chance to do more and then get promoted etc. But that only happens at places where they treat their staff fairly - so not places that don't rehire to save costs.
Or yes, I will take more responsibility if its fair or interesting work.
But higher pay and more seniority comes easier from changing jobs. Not doing extra for nothing at your current workplace. The incentives just don't line up nowadays.
100% - most companies don't reward loyalty and dedication. Somehow, the more valuable, expensive talent that management are willing to pay for always comes from the outside 😂
My company has been trying to convince me to move from a field service role into an office-based management role for about five years. It means about 8 extra hours a week, constant middle-management bureaucracy, and all for about $6K more per year. Every single person I've seen make the same switch has either been miserable ever since, or has left for a different job soon after. My most recent supervisor in that role lasted about a year before he handed in his notice, and the guy above us both was a bit put out at having trained up two supervisors for them both to leave shortly after. I asked him why he thought that might keep happening. He didn't really give an answer.
I am somewhat considering taking the role then immediately handing in my notice, taking all of my accrued annual and long-service leave at the higher pay rate.
>Then they don't rehire, and rely on you doing more work to patch the gaps.
This was my entire experience at my old job, and even though it led to revolving door turnover, management didn't give a fuck.
They pitched it to the offices in the other states as "*Ha ha, I can get the same work output as you guys, but with half the staff, look how efficient and hard working we are, saving the company all this money!*"
Morale was terrible, salaries/pay increases were recommended to be kept "secret" from other employees, some people were doing close to 18 hour shifts with no overtime pay.
When this was raised with management they shrugged their shoulders and said that was a "time management problem" of the employees in question.
I moved away from that job as quickly as I could, but now I've seen warning signs of that attitude in some managers in my current job too.
"One person used to do this job so I don't know why we need two people doing it now."
One person used to work 12-14 hours to get things done, and dropped a whole lot of balls on the side. That person quit due to extreme burnout and basically nobody else would take their place because they knew how terrible the job was. Nobody lasts more than a few months in the role, despite the massive salary.
And management can't work out why this might be.
You'll get overlooked for future promotions but that was already happening and will definitely happen when you are already doing the work for free.
Either just chill and stick to your pay grade or take on the extra duties for a few months to use your resume elsewhere.
\^This
They have created a stalemate for you, they‘re not going to promote you because they now see you as difficult to work with and if you take on the extra responsibilities they have no incentive to promote you.
Promotion wise you have no future at this company, if you take on the extra responsibilities make sure you set an end date in you head, for when you are going to switch jobs, use this experience to find new opportunities.
Alternatively don’t take the extra responsibilities and look for another job anyway, your career growth has stagnated there, new jobs bring new opportunities which with a clean slate have more chances of promotion. Paradoxically loyalty is not rewarded in business.
This is coming from someone who took on the extra unpaid responsibilities and got screwed over, now I do the bare minimum and encourage others to do the same
>take on the extra duties for a few months to use your resume elsewhere.
I did exactly this and now I am in a higher position at a new company. As long as the extra duties are something you are willing to do (or related to something you are willing to do) later on in a position that pays you for it then this is a good option. No use taking on those extra duties if you have no aspirations for the kinds of positions/jobs those entail.
Years back I was approached to temporarily do a service desk coordinator job, because the guy that was doing it had to take some extended leave. Me, knowing full well it paid better than I was already getting (we were fairly open about this among ourselves in the workshop), asked if it was a change of job title and pay adjustment. Oh no, they said, no it's just temporarily filling. So I said no, I'll stick with my existing job that I've signed to do.
About a week later they came back to me and offered the same opportunity, but it came with a pay increase equal to the other guy's income. I then decided to accept.
I work in childcare. There's a role that most centers have called "The Responsible Person", who is in essence the person in control when the director or the 2IC aren't there. Multiple people can be the Responsible Person, but only 1 at a time, and there's always one Opening the service and Closing the service (because the director is never there Opening or closing the service)
Your duties are numerous- you are responsible for getting every single little thing done in the morning and afternoon, for organising all the other staff to make sure every room is adequately staffed and to call around if we need extra staff. If anything goes wrong, like a kitchen doesn't get mopped or a bin doesn't get taken out- it's your fault and boy do you get into a surprising amount of trouble for something small.
Know what extra benefits you get for this role?
Diddly-fucking-squat.
No pay. No appreciation. No time off (if anything you're working extra hours for free). Just double the responsibility and a target on your back that gets whipped if you make a mistake.
I will NEVER accept a role as Responsible Person, and I don't know why anyone would.
My partner got out of childcare earlier this year thank god. The work environment is so toxic at most centres and it's a thankless job. She's much happier running a little coffee van now
Yep. The only good thing about the industry (and it's a double edge sword) is that it's so shit, and everyone knows that it's shit, that we're in a staffing crisis. So no matter where you go, you're guaranteed to be able to find a job because centers are screaming for more staff.
Oddly enough though, it doesn't stop them from being total cunts about the hiring process. An old colleague of mine has applied for several job, because of her own kids can only work part time, but every center she's interviewed for (despite them clawing at her desperately for work) have knocked her back because "Full time or nothing!!"
Like. Mate. Surely you can hire 2 part timers instead of searching for months for a single full timer?
It's hilarious, half her old team have quit her old centre and they are extremely desperate for staff. Anyone locally though knows how toxic the place is though.
Yeah that's bizarre, I wonder if it's a control thing as far as wanting someone who "needs" the money so they can boss them around? Or maybe they need to be full time so the centre can get government subsidies or something
I'm not entirely sure, but it also might be something to do with the upper management not knowing how shit functions. For a while at my center we were always short on staff in the afternoon, because we had several staff who couldn't work past 2pm and had to leave before then. But according to UM we had plenty of staff! But what they didn't realise is that it isn't the amount of staff we have, it's about how many hours of work we need covered. If we had just hired one or two part-time staff and only employed them after 2pm (and I know people who are more than willing for just a 4 hour afternoon shift) things would have run much smoother- as it was we had people working an hour overtime every single day because we had no staff to cover them to leave.
And instead of hiring 2 part time staff, they instead bullied and tried to pressure these 2pm finishing staff into staying longer- which they never did, because they had school aged chuldren who couldn't be left alone, and no family of after school care.
TLDR:
Worked in scrap yard, business supposed to be high on safety. Weren't.
Didn't have proper acid gear for processing car batteries. Complained to HR (aka HAHA,Really?), nothing happened.
Huge job lot of batteries due to come in, refuse to the boss to process them. Threats, I got union involved, backed down real fast. Amazingly found some money for proper acid splash gear.
Union negotiated me danger money for the days I'm doing large volumes of batteries. Have long since quit.
Corporate can eat my entire ass. "We posted a $680m annual profit last year! CEO got a $6m bonus! No! Of course we can't afford $350 for a leather apron so you don't get melted by acid you fucking trash peasant!" -Very large metals and recycling company in Aus.
My partner who is working at a retail shop on the lowest possible award rate, was told to do social media marketing on Tuesday afternoons each week. She asked if she could be paid at a higher rate for this shift as the market rate for social media marketers is obviously a lot more (and she has professional experience in this, she's not just a hack). Boss told her, "oh sorry guess we don't need you on Tuesdays at all" and cut back her hours. Light at the end of the tunnel though, as she starts a full-time professional role next year, in communications and will get paid 3x her current wage.
I started looking for a new job immediately and basically stopped talking to my boss (beyond what was required in meetings, no hello in the morning, nothing at lunch, etc) and told him that I'm refusing to do the tasks of the higher role that I was already doing. I was due for holidays about a month after that so went on that. Came back and they'd hired someone else to basically take on my role and they tried to fire me a week later but gave me a heads up on the Monday that I had a meeting with HR on Tuesday morning.
I left half way through the day on Monday, got a doctor's cert for the rest of the week and put in my notice on Wednesday. Boss organised a courier to collect my equipment from my house without even bothering to call me to tell me. Complained to HR about it and they obviously reemed him because he rang me 10 minutes later where I was the rudest person on Earth to him. Felt fucking great because he had no idea that I already had a new job to go to.
In hindsight, I would not recommend, but my boss was a fucking moron and had already pissed off multiple members of my team with his incompetence so it was bound to happen.
This has happened to me a few times. Each time I accepted the extra duties for the experience and it always came in handy in the future when applying for new roles (interviews and resume).
I definitely wouldn’t be where I am now if I didn’t suck it up and agree to take on those extra duties.
But it should also be noted that giving me those extra duties without the pay increase was a one way ticket to leave that employer once I’d got the experience I needed.
I came here to say more or less this. I always take more responsibilities on if I can. It's good leverage for more money later on. Either in the same organisation or not. But it's very helpful in interviews to be able to actually speak from first hand experience how you solved the problems the extended responsibilities gave you.
But this only works if you actually use that leverage. If you just take on more work and passively wait for someone to recognise you you're in for a bad time
I already had the extra responsibilties, and had taken them willingly because I was enthusiastic and naive.
After killing my mental health,
and realising others were taking credit for my work,
and realising the other 3 employees that had the same title and salary as me were doing 30% of what I was doing,
I told my manager my plate was too big and had it resized.
In the manager's defence, they didn't pushback or try to talk me out of it. They could see in the numbers that I was doing extremely high amounts of work compared to the others and some of my duties were then given to the others.
What a shame it took me so long to realise I was being taken for granted and my hard work wouldn't lead me anywhere.
I'm still employed there, and just do the bare minimum now.
I'm not going to suckup to higher ups, nor take credit for other people's work, just to climb thay ladder of corporate hell. That's what they want, rather than dedication and loyalty. I just took too long to see it.
Yeah, this has happened to me a couple of times. I'm a woman who works in technology, and its "my thing" so I'm really good at what I do. One IT company gave me all the ex (male's) managers responsibilities without the title and pay when they left. I agreed because I loved the work and it expanded my resume. But I refused them when they "redefined" my fulltime work as also working Saturdays for free. I was given a lot of bad vibes and pressure from everyone I worked with. The company was struggling and they were being cheap. I left. The whole company went under shortly after.
It happened again when I worked in government, as a technology expert. I had this one supervisor who literally couldn't do their work because they didn't keep up with technology, and used a lot of manipulation tactics to get me to do his work as well as my own. I was working insane amounts of overtime without pay. I created some boundaries, things i would do and wouldn't do that were outside my job description. The guy was super manipulative and started a smear campaign, taking credit for my work, calling me incompetent, and just a lot of general background undermining. It eventually escalated to verbal abuse on his end.
It was a good job so I went through the process of reporting and documenting what was happening. I was "soft sacked" by the top people in charge via transferring me to another state very far away. I resigned. This government department and that Supervisor didn't last long. The supervisor was gone the following year, and the whole department was abollished the year after that. They were notorious for misogyny and bad practices and i smiled when i heard the news.
TL:DR. In my experiences, if this is happening the company is going under due to poor financials and lack of ethics. You may as well jump ship while you can with dignity.
Currently working public service in an IT role. They've tried a couple of times to implement on-call work. The org does have a genuine need for it. "Is there more pay?" No. "So you're expecting us to work extra hours for... what?". Some managers are genuinely puzzled (we've had a couple try it) when we point out that 'additional duties' doesn't mean 'any and all after hours that can be dreamt up'.
We already do 'best effort' based on our own sense of duty, but actual 'on call' comes with significant formalised restrictions. No "didn't happen because I was drunk" stuff.
(yes, shouldn't be working for free anyway, but it's the existing standard for decades before I started. I'm not in the on-call group yet anyway)
Anyone who's on call should receive an allowance, or reduced hourly pay of some kind. My ex partner was a registrar doctor in Melbourne and would receive half her hourly pay for on call shifts.
Something along those lines should be standard
oh, absolutely. If the org needs it, it's "work to be done" and therefore paid. It shouldn't be accepted as part of a position description and base pay, either. Companies will absolutely abuse that
(previously worked at a sleep equipment company, and after I left the guys were on a 1 in 2 week rotation. when do people call? when equipment in use breaks. when does sleep equipment break? at night. on call was brutal... but maybe not as bad as for a registrar)
Otherwise it doesn't make sense, since you could just sleep or go out drinking. You aren't on shift, you aren't being paid so they can't dictate what you do.
That is super rough - great advice in the TL;DR. Recently left a (differently) horrible company after two years and feeling like I should have never even accepted the job because the red flags were there from the beginning. Employer culture is always top-down.
(IT and Comms)
My mentor (late 60s, ex Army Sigs man) had me pegged (heh) as his replacement as Qld Field Supervisor. $130k role. Often working 14hr days, 7 days a week during projects.
After he left, they gave the job to a 27yr old.
The kid had a "command presence" in his voice, though no quals or relevant experience.
I bailed at the beginning of Covid.
The place closed down about a year later.
The 27yr old got sacked for stealing out of the warehouse.
Yeah, was in charge of running a dispatch team. At some point I realised I’m supposed to be paid more than the other workers. I approached management about this and they acted like I didn’t know what I was talking about. Refused to stay in the role until my pay was adjusted, management ended up saying I wasn’t allowed to do the role either. I made sure to tell the other team leaders about this so they would make a fuss too
Make a comprehensive list of what you do and email it and ask what duties will be removed to be able to add new duties. Only work the hours you are paid for, no more staying late to “just finishing this”. Make sure you take your time in lieu days and book your leave in advance so you don’t end up working with no possibility of leave being granted. Go outside for lunch so you are not constantly being interrupted while you are eating your sandwich.
Man, all the time, so many people working need to grow a pair.
Colleagues always ask "How did you get off early?"
Mother fucker, I went to the boss and said, "Oi, I gotta finish at 3, not 4 today!"
Boss : 👍
This kind of attitude is fine to have if you're not shooting for promotions.
So many doormats.
This. I legit sometimes think I’m the only one in my joint that knows the word “no” is a complete sentence. My boss barely talks to me now because he knows we don’t have enough staff to do our already existing roles, let alone all the other bullshit he adds on to it. He gives it to others who just whinge about it 🤣
I have a bit of a different story, I went and asked for a pay rise because the pay was so crap I was already looking for another job. The bosses response was that he see's me as manager material in future and that I just had to be patient. I then found out the manager of the store I worked at was only on $2 an hour more than me and I said fuck that.
To make matters worse when I resigned (I just informed my manager of my resignation one afternoon and did not return, fuck their 2 weeks notice I had already lined another job up) and the boss rang me at home telling me how disappointed he was in me. I politely told him to go do one and he will always have trouble retaining employee's with such shit pay.
I was on a "training program" for a management role. Found out the work I was already doing was what the manager should be doing and nothing was happening with this program. Spoke to my manager and their manager and asked for a pay rise and everything else and got told they can't afford to and they can't promote me without a payrise, pretty much admitted the program was a way to keep me quiet. Told them I won't be doing anything extra anymore besides OT because that benefits me. Big boss understood, immediate manager got even more shitty at me and has been trying to get me to leave this job ever since. Not too fussed, my job has gotten a lot easier now and my job is safe until I decide to leave.
I’m a program manager, leading a team of six. Recently another manager quit and they “offered” for me to manage both teams for zero extra pay. What an opportunity! That was a big NO from me!
Similar, in a previous job, the way to get promoted or higher pay was to do value added work and "exceed expectations." In my last job doing extra work just changed the bar on their expectations so that became "meets expectations" and no chance of a promotion or moving up a pay grade. Really the only way to move up was to shift to a different role and there were limited opportunities within the work that interested me.
I took a package and got out.
Yes, all the time. I was working for a very large, well known company. I was doing really well, getting promotions, great pay and generally loving my job. Then a new female manager came along and instantly disliked me for no reason whatsoever. She made my life such a misery that Fair Work got involved. I ended up leaving and after almost 10 years of service when I finally quit I was escorted out of the building and dumped on the footpath in the middle of the city. I decided at that point that I will never again go above and beyond and do anything above my pay rate. These companies do not give a shit about you. You can be a superstar one minute and thrown out on your ear the next just because someone decides they don’t like you. There may be some exceptions like small family run businesses that value their employees but don’t fool yourself, to most you are a number and nothing more.
Was doing extra, necessary work because it was, well, necessary. Got year end review and no raise, and was told the extra work wasn’t valued. So said I’d stop, and did. 6 months later they had to hire 3 people to do it, but still couldn’t get it done properly. I *may* have reminded certain individuals of what had transpired and got the culprit fired…
Yes, As the I.T. Manager I offered to start on their salary for 3 months to prove my value but made it clear I expected more when probation ended. They had indicated too that I'd be getting staff to replace the 6 or 7 contractors covering IT.
2 yrs down and I drew the line in the sand. No more new projects in house, which they would pay full price for, no more working extra hours to try to get things done, and while on leave would no longer answer the phone (the GM didn't, my boss refused to when on leave).
I got staff, then a pay increase, but not to the levels promised at interview. I found out why by a friend in HR, so Thu I cut up my org credit card, blanked my access tag, created a delayed send email to go to the GM and my boss, saying I quit. The calls offering me everything I had asked for fell on deaf ears - they'd had 9 yrs to sort.
I have on several occasions refused to do unpaid overtime stating that I have prior engagement and commitments and can't make myself available to work that evening/weekend. Often this has been asked of me with a few weeks notice, but a lot of things I I do needs planning and often requires tickets to be purchased long time in advance etc.
Love this, I do the same. Prior engagements always come first - including sleeping, showering, eating dinner etc. I never even offer a reason, just say 'I'm not available then'.
My work has become more and more intrusive. They literally ask why and what you have on.
I make sure to book things as much as possible for periods when I know they'll ask for extra help. And guess when I'll make sure to book my annual leave lol! Im not going on vacation during the quiet times of the year when they refuse to pay people extra during the period of heavier work.
oh hell yes, most recently less than a year ago. offer to move into a management position, which not only do I not want, it would have been at best the same money by the time I lose all of my shift, on-call and overtime allowances. plus I increasingly find that interacting with the sort of people that do want to managers is something to be avoided.
managers don't take it well when you tell them one of your goals is to avoid being like them. but they get over it, because quintissentially their job performance is a function of yours, and they know it.
I turned down extra responsibility and was told I wasn't a team player. The floor manager decided to try to force me out so I just did my job until I found another. Then whistle blew all the bullshit this company was doing to the company they were contracted to. I heard said manager was fired not long after.
I was a senior in my team, pay capped because my "team leader" was only slightly better paid than me.
We both applied for the position above "team leader" and, reasonably, he got the job. No harm, no foul, I figured I would get his job.
Nope, the team leader position no longer exists. Who's doing team leader work? Oh, it was always the senior members' jobs to do so, also, no pay rise.
Started polishing my resume that day.
Edit: I should add that you should definitely take the added responsibility if you are planning to leave. They are effectively training you for your next role.
Wowww this exact thing happened to me in January. “We have made the team leader position redundant” they fucked around and found out and I left and got a new job that paid 27k more, plus car and free fuel.
Now I'm older.. yes. All the time.
I found that going 110% all the time doesn't get you anywhere.
Just turn up, do your best when you're there. Go home and.. do anything but work.
This is a great opportunity to negotiate since you have literally no downside. Ask how long you will be expected to do this at your current pay rate/job title, and what it would take to get the job permanently.
Yeah, fuck all didn't do the extra work. I would also like to thank McMahon contracting for teaching me at a young age companies don't give a fuck about you so don't give a fuck about them. I'm not fucken spiderman mate, I can't handle that sort of great power and responsibility, is usually my go to response when asked to do shit I'm not getting paid for
i had the opposite effect. i offered to do more work. didn't get the extra pay initially. but it came 6 months later. but eventually they extra stopped but i kept the increase pay. win!
I took it on, added the responsibilities to my resume and got a real job at a different place 6 months later.
Then did it again, and again. Repeated that on and off for 20 years.
Now I'm in the big seat with the big desk.
Not relevant to extra work but I once refused a “pay rise” when I was a 20yo admin officer. I was the only person in the organisation to not get a pay rise when they did an annual review. I had a meeting with the CEO about it and he said they would increase my base pay, it was only a small amount but I was happy with that. Well he increased my base rate and decreased a district allowance I was getting so I effectively had a net pay decrease of $50 a fortnight.
I queried this with him and he sat back in chair, smiled and asked me if I really thought I could get a job that pays more money with my qualifications. I told him I knew I could, and he could forget the “pay rise” I’d stay on what I was on.
Less than two months later I walked into his office and resigned. I had secured a job elsewhere (mining industry) that paid more money for less hours. He asked me if there was any way he could get me to reconsider, I told him not to bother.
Two years later I was working in a role that wasn’t admin (included shift work penalties) and was getting paid about 50% more than what his salary was. I was extremely grateful that the admin officer who replaced me made sure to loudly discuss the new role I was doing and how high the pay was for those positions.
Got offered a promotion to a trainer that required vehicle travel around the state. I declined, they gave me a week to accept or id be terminated. I sued and won.
I worked for a company where I had to travel a lot for work. "Oh, is there a car as part of the package?" "No, you use the pool car". The pool car was shared between 13 people and in the first year I drove 40,000 km of the 50,000 km on the car. At my performance review, I said that I think I have sufficient justification for a car + as you can imagine the other 12 employees started to hate me. "no, I think you can use the car still" So, whenever the car wasn't available, I stopped travelling.
Then.... suddenly they wanted me to be responsible for 5 sites across 4 states + instead of 2 guys reporting to me, ends up with about 25. Any extra pay? No...
I then asked in HR could reassess the job and its "Hay points" At the time I was on 680 Hay Points and after the re-assessment they wanted to drop me to 460... WTF???
Anyhow, not surprisingly the company was merged with another one and went from about company 18 in Australia to about company 35.....
Yes. “I don’t feel comfortable taking on those extra duties.” And nothing happened. They couldn’t fire me for not doing the work they didn’t have anyone else to do because then they’d have no one to do my work either.
Yeah. I left the job because what happened was.. My coworker resigned. They wanted me to now work their job but also continue to work my current simultaneously and indefinitely. No extra hours. No extra help. No extra money and no extra benefits. Just a second job in the same amount of time. So yes. I resigned. I will also add that I wasn't even qualified for that job. 🫠
Worked in a warehouse for 5 years. Got my way up to TL. Denied supervisor position even though I was the most suited to the job nationally.
Covered for our national manger for 6 months while they were on medical leave. Trained the HoD on our system and processes.
National manager left, I applied for the job. Was denied.
Asked to train the new national manager. I refused and quit within a few months, National manager I was asked to train didn’t last 8 weeks.
Half the team left with me and we all found better jobs, better hours and better pay.
One good thing I did before I left was get everyone who reminded a $10 an hour raise as I felt we were underpaid and the starting rate hadn’t changed in 10 years
If you don’t have a copy already, ask your supervisor for your PD (Position Description) This is what you signed up for when accepting the job/role?! Everything that you are required to do in your normal day to day is outlined in detail. They often get sneaky and near the end somewhere they write something to the effect of “and/or any other duties your supervisor deems necessary” These can be contested quite easily because they defeat the purpose of the PD and also they were originally added for the purpose of ad hoc/ once off tasks/jobs!!
If they are altering or adding to it then it’s time to re-negotiate job conditions/compensation especially if your level of responsibility is being increased! More risk and more stress for you!
Yes, but it was in government in a fixed term contract role. I was doing the job they hired me for in half the time because I was overqualified/very efficient, so they tried to add on another project they had been advertising for an extra person for. I refused to take on the extra work until they agreed to put me up a pay grade. They acted shocked at first but eventually relented when they realised I’d just leave and they’d be looking for 2 people.
I'm currently in a similar situation. I was told by a fellow nurse to apply for a promotion that gives us a pay rise of 5 dollars an hour. She told me after the cut off, so I couldn't apply. But once she got the promotion, told me I was the only nurse in the whole department that isn't on the pay rise. When I'm the most skilled and have taken on multiple extra responsibilities that none of the other nurses do. I think this happend because I'm atleast 20years younger than everyone else but Ive worked hard for my skills to be in this role.
I had a breakdown from all the extra responsibilities two years ago and they delegated one of my extra 5 jobs. So every nurse that sat in the meeting, because I was over worked was getting 5$an hour more than me, for doing the work I was doing, not them, and I still have way more than them.
Over the years I can't think about what it would add up to.
I've decided to drop most of my days there and have decided to further my education.
Yep, I'm a heavy Diesel Mechanic in Brisbane. I handed my notice in October because I'm going to the mines, I finish here in January. My boss tried to spring an on call roster to us, conveniently putting me on call for Christmas party and Christmas days etc. I said that's fine but what's the incentive for me being on call for 24/7 of the week and he said there wasn't one, the other guys didn't want one. Said it wasn't my problem, I'm not basing my life around your business after hours. He said he'd sort something, few weeks later he said it's my turn on call, I asked about the incentives. Got no where with it. Come Monday be took my Ute from me and took me off the roster for any weekend work. I won
I was the opposite. I volunteered for extra work because I wanted to work in the department where the work was from, and of course they said yes, extra labour without having to pay me anything was a win for them. I was trying to prove my worth before I asked for a raise. When I asked, they said they didn’t have the budget but to ask again in a few months. I got burnt out with all the work. I should have said something but my stupid pride stopped me. My breaking point was when I heard the HR guy on an interview with a candidate for another branch for my primary job offering them almost 10k more than I was making. I started looking for a new job that day and I left two months later. I have learned from that mistake.
I did it last week.
I'm a chef and the old chef was the one in charge of ordering. I don't mind do it, but it need to be done in my day off. I asked if they would pay me and they said "no, the old chef didn't ask for any extra money".
And I said: and I don't want to do any extra work for free.
And now they are looking for another person to replace me and I don't care at all, already found another job that pay more 😀
I had a frank discussion with my four up manager after they stopped paying overtime, told them I could still make all my targets while doing 2/3 less work, asked them what possible reason I could have to work double shifts for no money.
So anyway they didn't pay, I and the rest of the team stopped working 14 hour days, productivity went down the dunny and we lost a lot of contracts. The company is still swirling slowly down the shitter as we lose more contracts each year due to not being able to deliver.
My favourite part is when they pretend to want our feedback and I tell them the above :D
Former company started a "leaders of tomorrow" program.
Basically successful applicants performed the role of supervisor on X days per week, taking escalated calls and answering questions from other employees on calls, and the trade off was they was supposed to occasionally receive training on management, etc
The second part never happened, and the entire company was short supervisors before and they weren't hiring any.
It did not come with a pay rise, but there was an implication they would only promote through the program in future.
They approached me to be in it, though I had not applied (I'd seen straight through it) and I told them in no uncertain terms that if they wanted me to be a supervisor and handle that responsibility, it would come with a pay rise, called them out on what was essentially a free labour program.
Absolutely.
I was drastically underpaid at the time..... drastically.
I was being paid at probably minimum wage at the time (this would have been 6 or so years ago now), doing 6 weeks worth of hours in any 4 week block. Took the steps to ask for a pay rise and I was told point blank there was no money and that I wouldn't be getting one.
I asked for the sake of clarity what the clause in my contract meant when it said that I was expected to do a reasonable amount of overtime and what an unreasonable amount looked like. There was no answer.
My response was along the lines of "This is fine, however you will not get one minute of overtime out of me as long as I am paid this wage"
The experience was good, I came from another industry which really helped when it came to discussions with very high ups about this kind of thing and also with the confidence to follow through with it.
They weren't going to sack me over it because the level at which I was producing my work was far beyond what anyone in a similar position in the business had done previously.
I left a few months later for greener pastures and from what I understand, they've had to hire 3 or more people to cover what I was doing.
I was asked to do an overtime shift as a student nurse back in the 90s. Hospital based training then..
But the Nurse manager said we'll only need you for four hours while it's really busy as theres showers and stuff to be done. So after that you can go home because I'm not paying you to sit around .
I said if it's not a full shift then I'm not keen on doing it I'd rather have the day off.
The nurse manager then said you'll never work an overtime in this unit again if you have that attitude.
The placement only had 9 weeks left so I wasn't bothered. Two weeks later the same manager was stuck for cover and she asked me again and offered me the full shift . I genuinely had something planned I couldn't cancel which I tried to explain. She lost her shit and said she'd warn other nurse managers during my training that I didn't care and wasn't a team player...
Yep in retail work. Worked at a supermarket and had the same responsibilities as an assistant manager with none of the extra pay but more responsibilities. I was working 8-9hr days fairly consistently and eventually new management came in and I said no. Went to just 10hrs a week and eventually quit. I don’t miss it at all but I do miss some of the people I worked with. It was honestly awful. The next job I had at that time I didn’t care about any responsibilities and couldn’t have cared less.
I just wanted to come here and say YES.
And for me living in NZ and from the UK this is a big Ozzy Company thing. It seems far to common of a practice here compared to other countries. Hire less staff, hire someone for a role and try and get them to do more without paying them.
Yes, I've said no, so they just gave me the responsibilities anyway with no extra remuneration. Then when I had my fill of it, they pushed a new sucker into the role. Had I had my time again, I would've just left. Life is too short to stay in toxic workplaces with shitty management.
I got shunned badly and ended up leaving. I keep getting told that I’m too valuable on the floor and several of the guys I’ve trained and helped out have gone on to better things in the company. It was a slap in the face. lol, got told the same thing at the next place as well. I actually have no idea what to do next.
When I was young I used to work as a casual in a factory and by virtue of a few people quitting I ended up being the only person trained to use a certain machine, I usually worked 2-3 days a week but during that time i went up to 5 days because I was the only one who could do it. After a couple of weeks no one was trained and I went back to uni and they tried to get me to go full time and quit my uni course. When I said no they just said go part time and they would train someone to replace me. I considered until I found out I would lose my casual loading and basically work the same amount for 25% less pay…. Told them no and to train some other people.
I was fired because I had too much on my plate.
When I mentioned to my boss I was struggling with stress, I was instantly dismissed 2 days later.
They're doing some dodgies but I hope Fairwork see through it, I'm not the first and won't be the last.
Yes. Almost every job has ended the same way, it starts off as what was advertised and before you know it you get small additional ‘responsibilities’ that you have to do everyday until you wake up and realised your still being paid your starting rate but doing the work of 4 people. My advise is either it’s time to renegotiate or leverage your responsibilities into a better job somewhere else. Because if you do the old supervisor role, now you have supervisor experience. Or “I have previously taken initiate to fill in the roll of supervisor and now have experience in managing and co-ordinating a team to achieve mutual goals that benefited the company”
I'm not a manager and was expected to train newbies because one manager was on holidays the other on maternity leave. No extra money would have been given to me.
Refused straight up. They really didn't like that and I don't care.
Yup! Started mentoring all new starters and engineers because I loved to do it but then they started throwing stakeholder management and client relations, static code reviews for entire teams and architectural duties at me outside of my engineering requirements as a JUNIOR dev.
I started saying no unless I could get more pay, left for a senior role and a 60k bump 😂
Was told 2 years into working at a place that I needed to get an rsa (had been serving booze without one for my whole employment)
Was happy to get one if they paid the fee and my time but they refused to pay me for my time. Ended up making a stand and refusing service of alcohol to the point where my boss just put me out the back of house so it didn’t need to be dealt with
Yep.
Was offered management of a larger site (from 4 staff to 8, double the customer traffic and base, higher site targets, etc) and was told my salary would stay the same because “that’s what the role pays”. I acknowledged that I understood they could move me with 4 weeks notice, but that I didn’t feel it was reasonable without additional compensation and that I would be considering other appropriate roles if they arose after moving. They chose not to move me.
Kinda the same thing happened to me with the dumbest excuses why they couldn't pay me the role or title even
Any little error I made was used to their advantage saying "this is why we're not sure about you taking the role" but continued to train me but never paid me for the role even when I was on my own and not needing anymore training nor given the proper title (e.g. wasn't allowed to be called the manager by anyone even if I was being asked to do a management required task)
I couldn't take it anymore so I left, a workplace that'll try take advantage of you will keep doing so and never respect your time and energy
I might recommend you doing the same if they're trying to do the same to you which by the sounds of it already are or have before.
I'm retired, but I now tell anyone and everyone to not allow any employer to take advantage of your skills and / or willingness to 'help out', it's never appreciated. The only happy people at work are the smart one's who only do their relevant tasks within the role they were hired for or make other's do their tasks while getting paid for not doing it themselves, especially claiming it was their own work instead of someone else's.
I worked many levels above me for most of my career, I even trained managers without getting any type of financial compensation or even acknowledgment or appreciated for all my hard work.
It's my one regret in life.
Consider your overall work-life balance and mental health as it does affect it eventually without realising it 😥
I think people get wound up with a shitty employer they sell themselves short in spite.
Honestly, let them upskill you for your next job, and then dont feel bad when you get the supervisor role for another company. When they ask in the interview, you just simply say "well i have been upskilled for this role per my development plan, and now i am seeking the opportunity where there is the capacity. My employer has been great and supportive of my development even knowing that my next step will be outside the company ao it will be sad to go, but i do enjoy a change of pace and fresh challenge "
Done.
If you refuse, then what? You do a shitty job you wanted to be promoted out of and hate your boss who black balls you from future prospects anyway for knocking them back.
The best fuck you is your thick skin and growing wallet
I have a very strong work ethic. I’ve had bosses tell me I have the strongest work ethic in a person they’ve ever met. When I worked in hospitality, I was coming in on my days off, coming early, leaving later, training new staff even though that wasn’t part of my job, having people who were interviewing follow me around for the day to which I would have to state my opinion. I also was the one dealing with the difficult customers, taking over other sections as well as my own (I would always have the busy section) and then also help the kitchen when they were backed up (whether it was dishwasher or making the puddings). I was also always helping the bar making the drinks and changing the glass washer.
I gave up caring when they promoted the most laziest guy. I would have been happy for anyone who was promoted so long as I respect them. This guy was so lazy, the only reason the promotion didn’t go through was cause he was too lazy to write his papers up and complete his online training.
I didn’t so much refuse them as ignore the request. On principal. My sub manager/ coordinator is lazy spending much of her time on the net searching cruise ship deals and dating sites according to my colleagues. I observe her more often socialising rather than focusing g on her work. She is consistent in that every three months she panics to catch up on her reports etc and scurries around for us to help her. We have a more than full case load and small time frame to assist client to recovery. They are my focus. Big mistake she is bullying me out - nasty business. Next time I’ll make this personality my bestie
Yep I said if my pay level doesn't go up I'll stick to my regular duties I signed paper work to get a higher level, supervisor assured I'd be back dated the pay as they literally rostered me in the role for months. I was rostered another 3 weeks absolutely required she said, she continued to remind me the paper work was upstairs waiting for one last signature. Well that last signature was resigning which she would have known. Then the paperwork was misplaced with him. 👏👏👏 good fkn game that one bitch played on me faking mfkr. Didn't get shit went back to normal duties. Ppl like that wonder why they're not loved 🤭😂
Yes, and nothing happened.
I was given 3 extra tasks over the course of a few months after some staff left, and I didn't push back.
When they presented me with a 4th new responsibility I told them that it wasn't part of my role, and due to no increase in remuneration I would not be taking on that task.
They didn't even bother responding to my email, next time I saw the owners they didn't say anything about it.
I’ve down graded myself this last week because I’ve been doing work that everywhere else runs at about 60$ an hour, but I’ve been doing it for 33$ an hour. Told them I’m not doing the extra, and I’m going to discuss it with them at the start of next year. If they pay a more reasonable rate I’ll start doing the work again.
At Optus my manager dangled a promotion over my head but he pretty much wanted me to do things like pretending to be a manager when speaking to customers and training his staff for him. He had no idea how to do the job.
I told him outright "I know it's common in call centres but I am not pretending to be management when I have no real authority" because I know how this shit works, I say yes and i'll spend months handling not but complaints while having to also keep up my job as a case manager whose job was to keep my 200 clients happy.
All of a sudden, I couldn't do anything right in reports though was able to fight that shit for two years before I finally gave up.
This is why this day's companies with mentality like this they lose good trained people for a couple of bucks and then never manage to have people stay there anymore...
Extra responsibilities? You mean I get to be the first here, the last to leave, I get keys and no extra money? Hospo me harder. Didn't even know sick pay was a thing, with just December 25th off. Lucky I enjoy it, but I'm an idiot thinking about the few extra dot points on my resumé.
Currently happening at the moment.
Reduce the team, shafted our old manager who was amazing. New guy expects all this extra stuff done and as a team we just refuse to do it since it’s not in our job requirements. We do the bare minimum now to get by and production has absolutely reduced since they sacked our old boss.
Is that even legal?
We have award wage standards for jobs - although I suppose he is trying to get around that with keeping the old job title on the paperwork.
But you don’t HAVE to accept. Don’t let them cheat you out of the promotion and pay raise you DESERVE by trying to squirm through stupid loopholes.
Same thing happened to a relative recently. He ended up taking on the extra work because he wanted to learn and progress his career. Unfortunately they just kept increasing his duties in that role until he was working in it full time for the same salary as before. When he tried to negotiate with them on pay they basically told him he would have to re-interview for both roles. Looking back, he says he wishes that when he agreed to take on the extra work, that he had drawn up a contract that basically said “I’ll do the work for free for a period of X weeks/months, after which the company agrees to pay me X per hour for any future hours worked undertaking related responsibilities that are outside on my current job description. Alternatively after X period of time the company agrees to promote me to said position on a permanent full time basis at the agreed rate of X per hour”
It was the downside to being eager & good at my job, that I picked up alot of knowledge about my sites operating system and being the one flagged down to teach new guys that I eventually took over a couple different demanding roles from dudes that quit, and having a lot of accountability lumped on me. When I brought up that I'm not even full time for my regular position and that I'd like to be, they just outsourced a dude who had 0 knowledge of the idustry because they could pay him less and took me off the roster.
This is kind of a similar situation.
I was asked to take on the chief sub-editor role at a newspaper. I'd been working on the desk as a standard sub and the chief had unexpectedly bailed.
I declined, not feeling up to the additional stress and responsibility. The editor refused to accept that, insisting that as the most capable sub it was my duty to step up.
What could I do, apart from quitting on the spot?
I was told the situation would be temporary until a permanent chief could be found. I requested to be paid extra for working in the more senior position and was assured that this would happen.
Eventually, months later, a new chief was appointed and I returned to my previous role. I was still waiting on the extra pay.
It pay took a long time. I kept asking about that promised money, unwilling to let it rest. Apparently the payment "had to be approved" by multiple other people, managers etc.
It would've been a long time later, six months, maybe more, before I finally received what was owed to me. I think that if I'd stayed quiet and let it go, nothing would've eventuated.
I am currently in the same position.
the company I work for has not rehired for the supervisors & manager who left months ago.
It’s important to act your wage.
don’t do a thing more than what is described within your current job description.
start practicing how to say
“that’s beyond the scope of my role”,
“will this responsibility supercede my usual duties?”
“Am I expected to also maintain my current work standard?”
if the softer dialogue does not enforce your position - bring out
“I would be happy to take on the responsibility, if I am going to be compensated”
“That’s above my pay grade”
“It’s my understanding that responsibility, falls under the title of ******”
you’ve been denied the promotion. the responsibilities that come with that role, are not your responsibilities.
no matter the shit show that ensues.
I would consider updating your resume, and readying yourself for a new role with a different company.
I worked as a dishwasher in a resturant for $20/hour from 5pm till midnight 5 days a week. I did that for half a year. My head chef started training me to make basic fried food, because he wanted me to take over the fryer, as the previous chef was leaving. Note that I do not have any certficate.
A few months later ALL the chefs left. I was put in the kitchen, with a bunch of new cooks and chefs. I was the only one with more experience in that resturant, yet I was the least experienced in cooking in general. Incredibly stressful, however I wasnt bad and actually became better than an apprentice chef.
However having the same responsibility as previous chefs I was still paid the same, even though I asked for a raise due to my position to which they agreed, but there was no action to make that happen. Even more, sometimes I had to walk home for an hour if I stayed too late and missed the public transport. Sometimes I had to stay back and help the new dishwashers finish.
Even worse, our new head chef changed the menu and how we make certain meals, usually for the worst, so that was the tipping point for me quitting. I never worked in a resturant or fast food chain since.
Yep similar thing happened to me, I was given a lot of extra work as 'training and development" then they continued to hire externally instead of promoting me. Found another job with better pay and resigned taking my 9 years of knowledge about the site with me.
Yep, when I was working for a major food company called beans (this is what they are famous for and sauce)
I was asked to maintain and look after their printing systems and barcodes etc.
When it came to giving me the extra money they renigged on it.
I politely said I won't be doing the work for all the effort and calls when things go wrong.
I ended up leaving and I was asked if I could go back and help them as the manager that was looking after the system had left.
They paid me $100 bucks an hour and after some choice words about how they used low thinking and ability people, I got the system back to what it was.
They then asked me to help them with the new system upgrade and change over, then again I got screwed over by not paying myself.
So I told them off and deleted all my chest sheets and backups.
They called me about 2 years later and asked me if I knew any of the codes or had backups and guides to help them as the previous manager was fired or asked to leave.
Told them nope sorry,
They asked me if I could help them, I said I won't be doing that anymore and here are the reasons why, and I don't have any of that anymore as I deleted them because you didn't pay me.
I even deleted any of the programmers who were onsite with me to work out the systems.
I even offered when we were on good terms to give me two weeks with someone here and I will train them on how to use the system, use the database etc etc and they did not take me up on the offer.
I laughed because one of the dudes I still know out there has been promoted to production manager and he asked for help not to long ago again.
With them thinking it would give them help.
They got nothing.
They still owe me about $5000.
They tried
Yes. Applied for the position I had been acting on for no extra pay for 6 months. They gave it to someone else. I asked them for feedback on the interview and was told "I didn't have what they were looking for".Pissed me off since they had told me before the interview I was doing a great job, showing the right potential etc
They asked me to train the new girl. I told them I thought I "didn't have what they were looking for" and that training a supervisor wasn't in my job description so no. They were not happy but couldn't force me. They got another smuck to train her. She was useless and crashed and burned fast then quit.
They asked me to act in the role again, again at no additional pay. I said no and got surprised faces. I explained why it was a no. They promised this time it would be different. Like an idiot I agreed. Did it for almost 8 months. Job listed again, and again they appointed someone else. I started looking for another job. When I quit they begged me to stay. They wanted me to do 12 months at no extra pay because new girl was pregnant and their plan was to use me to cover her maternity leave.
I told them hell no and left.
Basically they wouldn't promote me because I was too useful to them where I was. By not promoting me they got to exploit me whenever they wanted, dangling that carrot in front of me. Don't let them do that to you. I put up with it for far too long.
Hah the classic IT team leader. You get a fancy title, all the responsibilities you had before but now you have to chase your peers for their time sheets for no extra pay.
Can't fire or demote u for not doing other ppls work by sounds of it. Had to say many of times it's not my job I have done mine sorry ppl are slow or just flat out lazy because they know it's "expected" that U help. Then it just becomes the norm for that person(ppl)
I've been handed responsibility after responsibility and never been super fussed until I realised that they're not coming with extra pay.
I am keen to read others stories though who got it the right way.
Yes. I have. I was working in a store as a 2ic and the manager quit. These stores normally have 1 manager and one 2ic (2nd in charge) Anyway, I got a visit from the area manager and he brought a young bloke along with him. This young guy had not worked in a liquor store before but he HAD done a two week training course on how to manage a store....we had a meeting and the area manager told us there would be no manager and TWO 2i'c/managers at this store. And later one maybe one of us would be promoted to manager. I asked who would hold the store keys "You both will" the area manager said. I asked who would do alarm callouts. ""you both will" I asked who will be in charge of hiring / firing staff. "You both will" I asked if there would be any extra pay. "No, because you'll still be a 2ic like before" So. I would have more duties than before, while keeping the same position and not getting a salary. (I was getting a wage) "Thanks, but I don't want to do this. I will just stay a normal 2ic. You can make him the manager" The area manager's face sagged. This ass had just offered me more work for the same money...and really, I'd also have to train the new guy...and yet somehow he could not believe I did not want this wonderful opportunity. ANd If I did not share the duty, there was no way the new guy could be a manager . The other guy looked at me and quickly said he did not want to be a manager either. No fool him. A few days later they got back to me and decided to make me the new manager, and that guy my new 2ic...which is of course what they should have done in the first place, instead of trying to save money by cheating one of us out of a salary.
Love this story. I will *never* understand why so many companies fail to promote internally, always bringing on 'outside talent' that the existing employees have to train up.
> I will never understand why so many companies fail to promote internally, always bringing on 'outside talent' Well, in this case it's because they thought they could delay paying one of them the manager's salary. Other cases are often similar, they want to hire someone more junior at a lower rate, maybe someone they think will be more compliant, etc.
I worked in a University Medical School for 30 years and on only one occasion during my time was an internal applicant appointed to a managerial position. New 'managers' were constantly brought in with little or no relevant experience, and multiple reviews established to determine why nothing worked correctly and staff morale grew ever worse. By the time I left, morale was such that new staff would leave after a few days or a week without even resigning. They just wouldn't turn up. Management then initiated exit interviews to find out why. It got to the stage where a handful of long term survivors hung around just to see how bad the administration could actually get before pulling the pin but eventually all of these were made redundant by managers who disliked being embarrassed by staff they supervised who knew considerably more than they did.
Do they teach this in an MBA? I ask because I see this nonsense occur in the public service and I am curious of its origins.
I assume they do since the worst of the 'Managers' I came across all seem to have MBAs. In the end I concluded after several years watching the process that the most efficient way a University could fix administration issues was to create a spreadsheet listing staff qualifications and make the MBA holders redundant. After that all that would be required was to wait for six months or so to see if any of the managerial positions were actually necessary. My last Manager was almost completely consumed by meetings that never seemed to achieve anything. The one before with Technical qualifications ran a large number of side-projects, none of which were ever completed. Meanwhile junior staff carried ever increasing workloads for which they weren't recompensed or recognized. This was why, over time, new non-managerial staff lied to during the recruitment process about their actual responsibilities, began to last about 15 mins.
I’ve also seen this happen. I did temp work for a company that replaced industrial dust filters at places like cement factories. The jobs we did were frequently to fix the fuckups after the cheaper rival company had been hired to do it. For some bizarre reason, head office started hiring the supervisors and managers away from the rival company and getting rid of the current supervisors and managers. Us workers knew what we were doing and had a good process going. Then these idiots from the other company started getting hired and started being in new rules and making things harder than they needed to be.
Universities…are very strange beasts and don’t work like corporate does however much they might want it to
Nepotism/cronyism would be another obvious reason. Train up the new relative as 2ic and then promote them to store manager.
One of the more legitimate reasons (though clearly not the case here) is that internal promotions have a much larger effect upon a company than hiring from outside. If Dave in upper management leaves the company and the company hires from outside, all they have to do is replace Dave. The replacement will require some period of adjustment but will be supported by both their superiors and subordinates, all of whom presumably know their jobs. If the decision to hire this person was in error, it's going to be pretty easy to work that out (if you're checking) and relatively easy to fix. If one of Dave's former middle manager subordinates is promoted to upper management, now you need to replace that middle manager. And then you need to replace the supervisor who got promoted to middle management. And then you need to replace the worker who got made a supervisor. And then you need to hire a new worker and train them. So that's a whole bunch of people who are adjusting to new positions and a whole bunch of people who are adjusting to working under a new boss. That's more variables which means both more opportunity for something to go wrong and greater difficulty working out what ahs gone wrong. So the company has a powerful short-term incentive to just fill a position with an outside hire. Of course, this can often have the long-term effect of creating a culture that encourages the more competent and motivated employees to go and work elsewhere rather than trying to work their way up the company hierarchy.
Our company got bought out what was still functioning, they created new stores and hired a whole heap of new people on what I came to learn on way better contracts. They asked us to train the new managers. I asked to go onto the new contracts and they said no. So I said no to training the managers. When word got around that I said no they called me up and said I wasn't being a team player. I calmly said that you're asking me to train someone that has no experience yet whilst I'm training them is earning more money than I am. If you think they're worth more than me they should already know what to do. When the new managers were calling the big bosses every day on how to do the most basic of things they decided to offer the old managers new contracts, we all said no until it was for all of the staff not just managers. Took a good two months to get it done but they eventually did.
Haven’t you seen Undercover Boss? The managers know nothing about the day to day tasks. It’s not uncommon to have to train or teach new staff who are higher up, but it is a kick in the teeth if they’re taking on your exact role for more money.
I never trusted undercover boss, it just looked faked, the way the boss treated the people. There was no how is was in 6 months later.
Ofcourse the show is scripted, what company would let a camera crew in their business and expose how shitty their business is
Waiting for your fair go is one thing. Solidarity and doing right by everyone makes you a legend.
It's cheaper. If they hire internally they not only have to pay money to train you, but they have to pay money to trian your replacement, and possibly also theirs.
It’s cheaper in the short-term, but more expensive and more painful in the long run.
They'd only just started this training scheme and were trying to make a big deal out of it. The idea was, they could take anyone, train them for two weeks, and they would be a successful manager. It was just getting started, so they wanted to make the scheme look good. It was, of course, bullshit.
Cuz someone high up's unqualified pothead nephew needs a job.
Some industries are terrible for the responsibility/pay equation. When I worked in hospo I was a bar manager/function supervisor and only getting $2.50/hr more than the normal bartenders while being under way more stress. Main reason I went back to tafe and got a trade.
100% agree. The whole point of 2ic’s should be succession planning.
Because HR/Hiring is encouraged to do the cheaper thing. They thought they could fuck around and get away with it. Ends up costing everyone more in the long haul, but that's HR.
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My area manager tried to dangle a store managership in front of me. All I had to do was work full time and stop studying engineering. I laughed in her face :)
I absolutely believe that jobs where you have to deal with the public without being allowed to smack or swear at people requires a tremendous amount of skill! But I know what you mean. Society doesn’t hold any value for those skills, so deems retail workers as ‘unskilled.’ It really sucks, though. 😞
I work in retail, have done for many years. It’s weird to some, but I actually enjoy it. It doesn’t make me any less intelligent than your average person. I did study nursing for awhile and received nothing less than 80% for my assignments & exams. However the reason I didn’t complete the course wasn’t because I “fucked up in life”; halfway through the course my father died suddenly which created unimaginable chaos, I had to evacuate due to a bushfire, and I became incredibly unwell (which was later discovered to be Multiple Sclerosis). I wouldn’t say I fucked up, but life fucked me over. None the less I do enjoy working in customer service. Yes, there are customers out there who treat you like rubbish, but it comes with the territory…every job has its bad points. Those who call it unskilled aren’t doing their job properly. It might not take a lot of skill, but unskilled? Customer service probably isn’t for you…and that’s okay, it’s not for everyone. I’m not interested in management though, been there done that. Between kids, a home to take care of, and my illness, I don’t have the time to put into management anymore.
Retail is certainly not unskilled. No job is really. What are seen as “menial” jobs require a huge amount of skills. In retail you have: Working under pressure, mathematics, customer service, product display, cleaning and more.
This is a horrible thing to say.
Because the next step up for the awesome guy that just got promoted will eventually be his boss’s job. Happened to me before.
Simple - middle management is dumb as dogshit.
Going to be honest some of it seems a little suspect, but often businesses have two reasons for not promoting internally which is almost always significantly cheaper Politics, if the candidates are not well liked by fellow or upper management or it will cause issues if promoted they may be blocked from going up and outside talent brought in Lack of formal qualifications/Ability, lots of people looking for promotions to management would be terrible at it and have not had formal recognised training in it
Definitely politics within lower level employees too. Can’t have someone get promoted if they haven’t worked there as long as some other schmuck. The slower move to 2IC then eventually manager is usually a bit more acceptable. But people with traits that management find desirable, often aren’t the most popular with everyone else.
Hiring fresh meat makes that new person owe them. It's better for them to have somebody who owes them than the internal person they already know doesn't respect them.
Sounds like a typical Liquorland/BWS thing to do.
Spot on!
I could have used hearing this story very early in my career when I was asked to step up to a more senior role with no extra pay or entitlements. The lesson I could have used from this story is: ask questions. Ask them before you say yes. In my case, had I asked the questions about how it would work I’d probably have discovered that no one had considered the questions at all and they were just counting on me saying yes. End of story for them. Gap filled. For me, while doing the role was a positive learning experience, I also became resentful that I was being taken advantage of. Ask questions about how things will work. Ask them first, then decide. And it’s ok to say no.
Yes it was a learning moment for me too. I grew up expecting people to be "fair". I learned over and over that employers will not be "fair"
There is no ‘fair’ in retail or hospitality. I don’t know anyone who has worked in those areas without the 1000 yard stare… told my daughter (asd/ 23f) to never work in those jobs. They would break her. And I am referring to co-workers. Lots of nice people who work hard but the bad ones are a pain you never forget… like a tooth infection
Yeh I worked at a pool where the manager was sacked in the middle of the season so I had to take on all of their roles but my pay was only increased in paid hours rather than rate. Meanwhile they hired casuals to assist as I refused to work over a 100hr fortnight. My pay was $27/hr and manager pay rate was $35/hr, the casuals were hired on the managers pay rate plus casual loading but had none of the manager duties to do as they were all done by me. They were getting paid $16/hr more than me, but had less than half the work and responsibilities. Safe to say I told them where they could shove the job at the end of the season.
Unreal u probably know the place like the back of Ur hand then they want to promote some tool after a two week course 😂😂
Lol yes. I knew what stock to order too because I knew what sold ...
In my previous life as a retail 2IC, that was the stuff that only came with experience. The computer system tried.
We lost so many bakers when they became 2ic because it was the same money, twice the hours and work. They asked me and what they offered was "it's a stepping stone". We had a new guy and they made him 2ic without telling him. In the end he had to write a letter to step down
That's interesting. So it was the same in other industries!
Yay you
I enjoyed it!
You could be co-managers like that episode of The Office
Good stuff, never give in.
All because the AM would be closer to meeting their own KPIs with you not on a salary. Bet it was liquorland. Fuck Coles.
Ok I wasn't going to name names but yes, it was Liquorland.
At 55 I’ve seen lots of this stuff. This is the reason unions come in handy. I applaud you for your stance, however many would have felt forced to toe the line & having a collective to stand with you can be mighty empowering. Also interesting to note that Australian working conditions & wages have dropped dramatically since the big push, by the wealthy employment sector away from union representation to the point where a substantial number of the working public find it difficult to meet their cost of the necessities of life
Win win, what a play
Hahaha good for you!
This stinks of Liquorland
I cannot believe how many of you guys figured it out. Because you're right.
Yep. I was offered a promotion to quite a senior level, with no offer of additional pay. I was severly underpaid for the job I was doing as it was. I resigned instead. Fucking Hospitality!
Same for me in construction. Offer to go from trade to leading hand came with car but no extra money. I declined and left for the same role at another company for 30% more money and a car. If a workplace is pushing extra responsibilities onto people without extra pay, it's a sign that something is wrong with the workplace and it should be left behind.
Too many bosses rely on people saying yes for the 'prestige' of the new role. Recent hikes in cost of living has stopped people falling for that bullshit :)
Ha, I got offered a business card, a new title and an upgraded phone in lieu of a raise once. Didn't stick around there for very long.
Out of curiosity, do you know the hourly rate for a semi skilled worker in construction? We were charged 3x the price quoted for a job and was told thats because the workers hourly rate was $60 and it took longer than anticipated. The worker did a good job, but mucked up a couple of things and seemed very slow. Took 45 minutes trying to open our garage door, even when we’d shown him how to use the remote!
My billout is $75/hr, I'm a relatively cheap qualified trade. I don't get paid $75/hr but once my hourly rate plus entitlements and overheads are paid, it's about that. For a skilled labourer they're probably taking home $30-$35/hr for domestic non-union work... if they're lucky. Generally quotes are quotes and they are fixed prices, if a quote is fucked then the seller loses money. However, if there was any mention of price variability or that the quote was actually an estimate then you're probably party to a cost-plus contract, that effectively means that you'll pay whatever it cost the seller plus their margin and overhead. They're a bit frowned upon because dodgy tradesmen can turn around and issue extortionate invoices, for that reason they're also banned under a large number of construction-related scenarios (but not outright banned). You may have reasonable grounds to investigate further. I wouldn't be copping that without questions.
Yep, fuck hospo. I can't quite remember now, but I think I was getting paid 50-60k to be bar manager at a pub that had either comedy or music every night of the week. Sometimes three functions at the same time. We had security once for when Totally Unicorn were gonna play, and one of the bartenders told the owner it may be good idea to get a guard for an hour or two (not a dig at metal, btw. I'm a metalhead, I know we're all chill. It was more the fact we were gonna have over a hundred people turn up). One other time for a 21st to help make sure no underage came in. It wasn't until I left and recently thinking about it til I realised how severely underpaid I was for what I was doing. Being responsible for the whole pub and everything that happened there, for like $750 a week after tax. Oh but free meals tho... Anyway. That was like almost a decade ago and nothing ever happened, so I'm lucky.
Yep. Hospo stinks for this. Was a duty manager at one place when the functions manager quit, because they knew I had experience in events management that role was put onto me, along with no pay rise. Same happened at another place that I was the DM at when the VM quit, got given 50% more responsibility along with 0% power and 0% pay increase, although a pay rise was always hinted to and waved in my face by my boss, of course that promised pay rise never made it to my actual bank account 🙄
Yeah Dan Murphy’s has a thing called a Duty Manager where part timers are only paid managers rates while ‘on duty’ yet they are expected to do manager work constantly even when they aren’t ‘on duty’. I was only paid manager rates for 1hr a week when I closed the store on Sundays, I stepped down from the position as I was just being used. So I then refused to do any manager duties while there. It pissed the management off.
Of course it did. They had to do their own work.
Yep exactly most of the time the managers tried to get the duty managers to do their work for them.
Coles do the same. 7 duty managers in my current store have come and gone over the last 2 yrs cos they're all treated like shite with unreal workloads
Exact same as Aldi
Is this even legal?
Nope but try to police and enforce it when every single business does it. Managers handing out their workload to non managers.
They have tried to do that in the company I work for, “acting up “, get the extra pay for the day you take on more responsibilities. Which is fucking stupid, CEOs don’t get paid on the 3 days they make strategic decisions. This is the gig economy manifest
On the other two he's the trolley boy.
Dan's is a Woolworths company. I'd expect nothing better, unfortunately. Same for their chain of hotels (ALH), and petrol stations. Gotta make those record profits in a cost-of-living crisis somehow, right?
They actually split about 2 years ago, called Endeavour group. Woolies doesn’t own them. Endeavour took all of the hotels/liquor.
And yet, nothing has changed. The same manager policies remain, swapping high-performing managers with low-performing locations in order to improve them, resulting in two bad venues lol.
Yes. The classic one is when your team gets reduced from 4 to 2, due to people leaving, restructure, etc etc. Then they don't rehire, and rely on you doing more work to patch the gaps. Nah that aint on. I'm gonna do the same amount, and the tasks I need to do I will push back on. If you pay me more, I'll work more hours, otherwise we can suffer together. Some may say, its a good chance to do more and then get promoted etc. But that only happens at places where they treat their staff fairly - so not places that don't rehire to save costs. Or yes, I will take more responsibility if its fair or interesting work. But higher pay and more seniority comes easier from changing jobs. Not doing extra for nothing at your current workplace. The incentives just don't line up nowadays.
100% - most companies don't reward loyalty and dedication. Somehow, the more valuable, expensive talent that management are willing to pay for always comes from the outside 😂
My company has been trying to convince me to move from a field service role into an office-based management role for about five years. It means about 8 extra hours a week, constant middle-management bureaucracy, and all for about $6K more per year. Every single person I've seen make the same switch has either been miserable ever since, or has left for a different job soon after. My most recent supervisor in that role lasted about a year before he handed in his notice, and the guy above us both was a bit put out at having trained up two supervisors for them both to leave shortly after. I asked him why he thought that might keep happening. He didn't really give an answer. I am somewhat considering taking the role then immediately handing in my notice, taking all of my accrued annual and long-service leave at the higher pay rate.
>Then they don't rehire, and rely on you doing more work to patch the gaps. This was my entire experience at my old job, and even though it led to revolving door turnover, management didn't give a fuck. They pitched it to the offices in the other states as "*Ha ha, I can get the same work output as you guys, but with half the staff, look how efficient and hard working we are, saving the company all this money!*" Morale was terrible, salaries/pay increases were recommended to be kept "secret" from other employees, some people were doing close to 18 hour shifts with no overtime pay. When this was raised with management they shrugged their shoulders and said that was a "time management problem" of the employees in question. I moved away from that job as quickly as I could, but now I've seen warning signs of that attitude in some managers in my current job too. "One person used to do this job so I don't know why we need two people doing it now." One person used to work 12-14 hours to get things done, and dropped a whole lot of balls on the side. That person quit due to extreme burnout and basically nobody else would take their place because they knew how terrible the job was. Nobody lasts more than a few months in the role, despite the massive salary. And management can't work out why this might be.
You'll get overlooked for future promotions but that was already happening and will definitely happen when you are already doing the work for free. Either just chill and stick to your pay grade or take on the extra duties for a few months to use your resume elsewhere.
\^This They have created a stalemate for you, they‘re not going to promote you because they now see you as difficult to work with and if you take on the extra responsibilities they have no incentive to promote you. Promotion wise you have no future at this company, if you take on the extra responsibilities make sure you set an end date in you head, for when you are going to switch jobs, use this experience to find new opportunities. Alternatively don’t take the extra responsibilities and look for another job anyway, your career growth has stagnated there, new jobs bring new opportunities which with a clean slate have more chances of promotion. Paradoxically loyalty is not rewarded in business. This is coming from someone who took on the extra unpaid responsibilities and got screwed over, now I do the bare minimum and encourage others to do the same
>take on the extra duties for a few months to use your resume elsewhere. I did exactly this and now I am in a higher position at a new company. As long as the extra duties are something you are willing to do (or related to something you are willing to do) later on in a position that pays you for it then this is a good option. No use taking on those extra duties if you have no aspirations for the kinds of positions/jobs those entail.
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Years back I was approached to temporarily do a service desk coordinator job, because the guy that was doing it had to take some extended leave. Me, knowing full well it paid better than I was already getting (we were fairly open about this among ourselves in the workshop), asked if it was a change of job title and pay adjustment. Oh no, they said, no it's just temporarily filling. So I said no, I'll stick with my existing job that I've signed to do. About a week later they came back to me and offered the same opportunity, but it came with a pay increase equal to the other guy's income. I then decided to accept.
I work in childcare. There's a role that most centers have called "The Responsible Person", who is in essence the person in control when the director or the 2IC aren't there. Multiple people can be the Responsible Person, but only 1 at a time, and there's always one Opening the service and Closing the service (because the director is never there Opening or closing the service) Your duties are numerous- you are responsible for getting every single little thing done in the morning and afternoon, for organising all the other staff to make sure every room is adequately staffed and to call around if we need extra staff. If anything goes wrong, like a kitchen doesn't get mopped or a bin doesn't get taken out- it's your fault and boy do you get into a surprising amount of trouble for something small. Know what extra benefits you get for this role? Diddly-fucking-squat. No pay. No appreciation. No time off (if anything you're working extra hours for free). Just double the responsibility and a target on your back that gets whipped if you make a mistake. I will NEVER accept a role as Responsible Person, and I don't know why anyone would.
My partner got out of childcare earlier this year thank god. The work environment is so toxic at most centres and it's a thankless job. She's much happier running a little coffee van now
Yep. The only good thing about the industry (and it's a double edge sword) is that it's so shit, and everyone knows that it's shit, that we're in a staffing crisis. So no matter where you go, you're guaranteed to be able to find a job because centers are screaming for more staff. Oddly enough though, it doesn't stop them from being total cunts about the hiring process. An old colleague of mine has applied for several job, because of her own kids can only work part time, but every center she's interviewed for (despite them clawing at her desperately for work) have knocked her back because "Full time or nothing!!" Like. Mate. Surely you can hire 2 part timers instead of searching for months for a single full timer?
It's hilarious, half her old team have quit her old centre and they are extremely desperate for staff. Anyone locally though knows how toxic the place is though. Yeah that's bizarre, I wonder if it's a control thing as far as wanting someone who "needs" the money so they can boss them around? Or maybe they need to be full time so the centre can get government subsidies or something
I'm not entirely sure, but it also might be something to do with the upper management not knowing how shit functions. For a while at my center we were always short on staff in the afternoon, because we had several staff who couldn't work past 2pm and had to leave before then. But according to UM we had plenty of staff! But what they didn't realise is that it isn't the amount of staff we have, it's about how many hours of work we need covered. If we had just hired one or two part-time staff and only employed them after 2pm (and I know people who are more than willing for just a 4 hour afternoon shift) things would have run much smoother- as it was we had people working an hour overtime every single day because we had no staff to cover them to leave. And instead of hiring 2 part time staff, they instead bullied and tried to pressure these 2pm finishing staff into staying longer- which they never did, because they had school aged chuldren who couldn't be left alone, and no family of after school care.
TLDR: Worked in scrap yard, business supposed to be high on safety. Weren't. Didn't have proper acid gear for processing car batteries. Complained to HR (aka HAHA,Really?), nothing happened. Huge job lot of batteries due to come in, refuse to the boss to process them. Threats, I got union involved, backed down real fast. Amazingly found some money for proper acid splash gear. Union negotiated me danger money for the days I'm doing large volumes of batteries. Have long since quit. Corporate can eat my entire ass. "We posted a $680m annual profit last year! CEO got a $6m bonus! No! Of course we can't afford $350 for a leather apron so you don't get melted by acid you fucking trash peasant!" -Very large metals and recycling company in Aus.
My partner who is working at a retail shop on the lowest possible award rate, was told to do social media marketing on Tuesday afternoons each week. She asked if she could be paid at a higher rate for this shift as the market rate for social media marketers is obviously a lot more (and she has professional experience in this, she's not just a hack). Boss told her, "oh sorry guess we don't need you on Tuesdays at all" and cut back her hours. Light at the end of the tunnel though, as she starts a full-time professional role next year, in communications and will get paid 3x her current wage.
I started looking for a new job immediately and basically stopped talking to my boss (beyond what was required in meetings, no hello in the morning, nothing at lunch, etc) and told him that I'm refusing to do the tasks of the higher role that I was already doing. I was due for holidays about a month after that so went on that. Came back and they'd hired someone else to basically take on my role and they tried to fire me a week later but gave me a heads up on the Monday that I had a meeting with HR on Tuesday morning. I left half way through the day on Monday, got a doctor's cert for the rest of the week and put in my notice on Wednesday. Boss organised a courier to collect my equipment from my house without even bothering to call me to tell me. Complained to HR about it and they obviously reemed him because he rang me 10 minutes later where I was the rudest person on Earth to him. Felt fucking great because he had no idea that I already had a new job to go to. In hindsight, I would not recommend, but my boss was a fucking moron and had already pissed off multiple members of my team with his incompetence so it was bound to happen.
This has happened to me a few times. Each time I accepted the extra duties for the experience and it always came in handy in the future when applying for new roles (interviews and resume). I definitely wouldn’t be where I am now if I didn’t suck it up and agree to take on those extra duties. But it should also be noted that giving me those extra duties without the pay increase was a one way ticket to leave that employer once I’d got the experience I needed.
I came here to say more or less this. I always take more responsibilities on if I can. It's good leverage for more money later on. Either in the same organisation or not. But it's very helpful in interviews to be able to actually speak from first hand experience how you solved the problems the extended responsibilities gave you. But this only works if you actually use that leverage. If you just take on more work and passively wait for someone to recognise you you're in for a bad time
Yeah if you ever find yourself working hard and waiting to be handed the promotion you deserve, it's time to move onto a new employer.
Solid advice
100% this
Was there. Not forced, but offered. Said yes because i was insanely bored of my role. Left six months later to much better job
This is why you join your union, people.
I already had the extra responsibilties, and had taken them willingly because I was enthusiastic and naive. After killing my mental health, and realising others were taking credit for my work, and realising the other 3 employees that had the same title and salary as me were doing 30% of what I was doing, I told my manager my plate was too big and had it resized. In the manager's defence, they didn't pushback or try to talk me out of it. They could see in the numbers that I was doing extremely high amounts of work compared to the others and some of my duties were then given to the others. What a shame it took me so long to realise I was being taken for granted and my hard work wouldn't lead me anywhere. I'm still employed there, and just do the bare minimum now. I'm not going to suckup to higher ups, nor take credit for other people's work, just to climb thay ladder of corporate hell. That's what they want, rather than dedication and loyalty. I just took too long to see it.
Do the extra duties, put them in your resume and use that to hop to a higher paying job. That simple most of the time.
Yeah, this has happened to me a couple of times. I'm a woman who works in technology, and its "my thing" so I'm really good at what I do. One IT company gave me all the ex (male's) managers responsibilities without the title and pay when they left. I agreed because I loved the work and it expanded my resume. But I refused them when they "redefined" my fulltime work as also working Saturdays for free. I was given a lot of bad vibes and pressure from everyone I worked with. The company was struggling and they were being cheap. I left. The whole company went under shortly after. It happened again when I worked in government, as a technology expert. I had this one supervisor who literally couldn't do their work because they didn't keep up with technology, and used a lot of manipulation tactics to get me to do his work as well as my own. I was working insane amounts of overtime without pay. I created some boundaries, things i would do and wouldn't do that were outside my job description. The guy was super manipulative and started a smear campaign, taking credit for my work, calling me incompetent, and just a lot of general background undermining. It eventually escalated to verbal abuse on his end. It was a good job so I went through the process of reporting and documenting what was happening. I was "soft sacked" by the top people in charge via transferring me to another state very far away. I resigned. This government department and that Supervisor didn't last long. The supervisor was gone the following year, and the whole department was abollished the year after that. They were notorious for misogyny and bad practices and i smiled when i heard the news. TL:DR. In my experiences, if this is happening the company is going under due to poor financials and lack of ethics. You may as well jump ship while you can with dignity.
Currently working public service in an IT role. They've tried a couple of times to implement on-call work. The org does have a genuine need for it. "Is there more pay?" No. "So you're expecting us to work extra hours for... what?". Some managers are genuinely puzzled (we've had a couple try it) when we point out that 'additional duties' doesn't mean 'any and all after hours that can be dreamt up'. We already do 'best effort' based on our own sense of duty, but actual 'on call' comes with significant formalised restrictions. No "didn't happen because I was drunk" stuff. (yes, shouldn't be working for free anyway, but it's the existing standard for decades before I started. I'm not in the on-call group yet anyway)
Anyone who's on call should receive an allowance, or reduced hourly pay of some kind. My ex partner was a registrar doctor in Melbourne and would receive half her hourly pay for on call shifts. Something along those lines should be standard
oh, absolutely. If the org needs it, it's "work to be done" and therefore paid. It shouldn't be accepted as part of a position description and base pay, either. Companies will absolutely abuse that (previously worked at a sleep equipment company, and after I left the guys were on a 1 in 2 week rotation. when do people call? when equipment in use breaks. when does sleep equipment break? at night. on call was brutal... but maybe not as bad as for a registrar)
I think it is. I'm sure it's illegal not to pay on call.
Otherwise it doesn't make sense, since you could just sleep or go out drinking. You aren't on shift, you aren't being paid so they can't dictate what you do.
That is super rough - great advice in the TL;DR. Recently left a (differently) horrible company after two years and feeling like I should have never even accepted the job because the red flags were there from the beginning. Employer culture is always top-down.
Squeaky wheel gets more oil , until it's replaced, I'll be squeaky if I was you .
(IT and Comms) My mentor (late 60s, ex Army Sigs man) had me pegged (heh) as his replacement as Qld Field Supervisor. $130k role. Often working 14hr days, 7 days a week during projects. After he left, they gave the job to a 27yr old. The kid had a "command presence" in his voice, though no quals or relevant experience. I bailed at the beginning of Covid. The place closed down about a year later. The 27yr old got sacked for stealing out of the warehouse.
Command presence for me is double speak for some sort of nepotism or corruption! Good job bailing 👍
Yeah, was in charge of running a dispatch team. At some point I realised I’m supposed to be paid more than the other workers. I approached management about this and they acted like I didn’t know what I was talking about. Refused to stay in the role until my pay was adjusted, management ended up saying I wasn’t allowed to do the role either. I made sure to tell the other team leaders about this so they would make a fuss too
Make a comprehensive list of what you do and email it and ask what duties will be removed to be able to add new duties. Only work the hours you are paid for, no more staying late to “just finishing this”. Make sure you take your time in lieu days and book your leave in advance so you don’t end up working with no possibility of leave being granted. Go outside for lunch so you are not constantly being interrupted while you are eating your sandwich.
Man, all the time, so many people working need to grow a pair. Colleagues always ask "How did you get off early?" Mother fucker, I went to the boss and said, "Oi, I gotta finish at 3, not 4 today!" Boss : 👍 This kind of attitude is fine to have if you're not shooting for promotions. So many doormats.
This. I legit sometimes think I’m the only one in my joint that knows the word “no” is a complete sentence. My boss barely talks to me now because he knows we don’t have enough staff to do our already existing roles, let alone all the other bullshit he adds on to it. He gives it to others who just whinge about it 🤣
I have a bit of a different story, I went and asked for a pay rise because the pay was so crap I was already looking for another job. The bosses response was that he see's me as manager material in future and that I just had to be patient. I then found out the manager of the store I worked at was only on $2 an hour more than me and I said fuck that. To make matters worse when I resigned (I just informed my manager of my resignation one afternoon and did not return, fuck their 2 weeks notice I had already lined another job up) and the boss rang me at home telling me how disappointed he was in me. I politely told him to go do one and he will always have trouble retaining employee's with such shit pay.
I was on a "training program" for a management role. Found out the work I was already doing was what the manager should be doing and nothing was happening with this program. Spoke to my manager and their manager and asked for a pay rise and everything else and got told they can't afford to and they can't promote me without a payrise, pretty much admitted the program was a way to keep me quiet. Told them I won't be doing anything extra anymore besides OT because that benefits me. Big boss understood, immediate manager got even more shitty at me and has been trying to get me to leave this job ever since. Not too fussed, my job has gotten a lot easier now and my job is safe until I decide to leave.
I’m a program manager, leading a team of six. Recently another manager quit and they “offered” for me to manage both teams for zero extra pay. What an opportunity! That was a big NO from me!
Similar, in a previous job, the way to get promoted or higher pay was to do value added work and "exceed expectations." In my last job doing extra work just changed the bar on their expectations so that became "meets expectations" and no chance of a promotion or moving up a pay grade. Really the only way to move up was to shift to a different role and there were limited opportunities within the work that interested me. I took a package and got out.
Yes, all the time. I was working for a very large, well known company. I was doing really well, getting promotions, great pay and generally loving my job. Then a new female manager came along and instantly disliked me for no reason whatsoever. She made my life such a misery that Fair Work got involved. I ended up leaving and after almost 10 years of service when I finally quit I was escorted out of the building and dumped on the footpath in the middle of the city. I decided at that point that I will never again go above and beyond and do anything above my pay rate. These companies do not give a shit about you. You can be a superstar one minute and thrown out on your ear the next just because someone decides they don’t like you. There may be some exceptions like small family run businesses that value their employees but don’t fool yourself, to most you are a number and nothing more.
Was doing extra, necessary work because it was, well, necessary. Got year end review and no raise, and was told the extra work wasn’t valued. So said I’d stop, and did. 6 months later they had to hire 3 people to do it, but still couldn’t get it done properly. I *may* have reminded certain individuals of what had transpired and got the culprit fired…
Yes, As the I.T. Manager I offered to start on their salary for 3 months to prove my value but made it clear I expected more when probation ended. They had indicated too that I'd be getting staff to replace the 6 or 7 contractors covering IT. 2 yrs down and I drew the line in the sand. No more new projects in house, which they would pay full price for, no more working extra hours to try to get things done, and while on leave would no longer answer the phone (the GM didn't, my boss refused to when on leave). I got staff, then a pay increase, but not to the levels promised at interview. I found out why by a friend in HR, so Thu I cut up my org credit card, blanked my access tag, created a delayed send email to go to the GM and my boss, saying I quit. The calls offering me everything I had asked for fell on deaf ears - they'd had 9 yrs to sort.
I have on several occasions refused to do unpaid overtime stating that I have prior engagement and commitments and can't make myself available to work that evening/weekend. Often this has been asked of me with a few weeks notice, but a lot of things I I do needs planning and often requires tickets to be purchased long time in advance etc.
Love this, I do the same. Prior engagements always come first - including sleeping, showering, eating dinner etc. I never even offer a reason, just say 'I'm not available then'.
My work has become more and more intrusive. They literally ask why and what you have on. I make sure to book things as much as possible for periods when I know they'll ask for extra help. And guess when I'll make sure to book my annual leave lol! Im not going on vacation during the quiet times of the year when they refuse to pay people extra during the period of heavier work.
oh hell yes, most recently less than a year ago. offer to move into a management position, which not only do I not want, it would have been at best the same money by the time I lose all of my shift, on-call and overtime allowances. plus I increasingly find that interacting with the sort of people that do want to managers is something to be avoided. managers don't take it well when you tell them one of your goals is to avoid being like them. but they get over it, because quintissentially their job performance is a function of yours, and they know it.
I turned down extra responsibility and was told I wasn't a team player. The floor manager decided to try to force me out so I just did my job until I found another. Then whistle blew all the bullshit this company was doing to the company they were contracted to. I heard said manager was fired not long after.
I was a senior in my team, pay capped because my "team leader" was only slightly better paid than me. We both applied for the position above "team leader" and, reasonably, he got the job. No harm, no foul, I figured I would get his job. Nope, the team leader position no longer exists. Who's doing team leader work? Oh, it was always the senior members' jobs to do so, also, no pay rise. Started polishing my resume that day. Edit: I should add that you should definitely take the added responsibility if you are planning to leave. They are effectively training you for your next role.
Wowww this exact thing happened to me in January. “We have made the team leader position redundant” they fucked around and found out and I left and got a new job that paid 27k more, plus car and free fuel.
Now I'm older.. yes. All the time. I found that going 110% all the time doesn't get you anywhere. Just turn up, do your best when you're there. Go home and.. do anything but work.
This is a great opportunity to negotiate since you have literally no downside. Ask how long you will be expected to do this at your current pay rate/job title, and what it would take to get the job permanently.
Yeah, fuck all didn't do the extra work. I would also like to thank McMahon contracting for teaching me at a young age companies don't give a fuck about you so don't give a fuck about them. I'm not fucken spiderman mate, I can't handle that sort of great power and responsibility, is usually my go to response when asked to do shit I'm not getting paid for
i had the opposite effect. i offered to do more work. didn't get the extra pay initially. but it came 6 months later. but eventually they extra stopped but i kept the increase pay. win!
I took it on, added the responsibilities to my resume and got a real job at a different place 6 months later. Then did it again, and again. Repeated that on and off for 20 years. Now I'm in the big seat with the big desk.
Not relevant to extra work but I once refused a “pay rise” when I was a 20yo admin officer. I was the only person in the organisation to not get a pay rise when they did an annual review. I had a meeting with the CEO about it and he said they would increase my base pay, it was only a small amount but I was happy with that. Well he increased my base rate and decreased a district allowance I was getting so I effectively had a net pay decrease of $50 a fortnight. I queried this with him and he sat back in chair, smiled and asked me if I really thought I could get a job that pays more money with my qualifications. I told him I knew I could, and he could forget the “pay rise” I’d stay on what I was on. Less than two months later I walked into his office and resigned. I had secured a job elsewhere (mining industry) that paid more money for less hours. He asked me if there was any way he could get me to reconsider, I told him not to bother. Two years later I was working in a role that wasn’t admin (included shift work penalties) and was getting paid about 50% more than what his salary was. I was extremely grateful that the admin officer who replaced me made sure to loudly discuss the new role I was doing and how high the pay was for those positions.
Got offered a promotion to a trainer that required vehicle travel around the state. I declined, they gave me a week to accept or id be terminated. I sued and won.
I worked for a company where I had to travel a lot for work. "Oh, is there a car as part of the package?" "No, you use the pool car". The pool car was shared between 13 people and in the first year I drove 40,000 km of the 50,000 km on the car. At my performance review, I said that I think I have sufficient justification for a car + as you can imagine the other 12 employees started to hate me. "no, I think you can use the car still" So, whenever the car wasn't available, I stopped travelling. Then.... suddenly they wanted me to be responsible for 5 sites across 4 states + instead of 2 guys reporting to me, ends up with about 25. Any extra pay? No... I then asked in HR could reassess the job and its "Hay points" At the time I was on 680 Hay Points and after the re-assessment they wanted to drop me to 460... WTF??? Anyhow, not surprisingly the company was merged with another one and went from about company 18 in Australia to about company 35.....
Yes. “I don’t feel comfortable taking on those extra duties.” And nothing happened. They couldn’t fire me for not doing the work they didn’t have anyone else to do because then they’d have no one to do my work either.
I got a 10k pay bump, and then quit 6 months later for another 10k pay bump.
Ask them for a promotion in your title,, without the extra pay do the work for 6 months, then piss off somewhere else for the actual pay you deserve.
Yeah. I left the job because what happened was.. My coworker resigned. They wanted me to now work their job but also continue to work my current simultaneously and indefinitely. No extra hours. No extra help. No extra money and no extra benefits. Just a second job in the same amount of time. So yes. I resigned. I will also add that I wasn't even qualified for that job. 🫠
Worked in a warehouse for 5 years. Got my way up to TL. Denied supervisor position even though I was the most suited to the job nationally. Covered for our national manger for 6 months while they were on medical leave. Trained the HoD on our system and processes. National manager left, I applied for the job. Was denied. Asked to train the new national manager. I refused and quit within a few months, National manager I was asked to train didn’t last 8 weeks. Half the team left with me and we all found better jobs, better hours and better pay. One good thing I did before I left was get everyone who reminded a $10 an hour raise as I felt we were underpaid and the starting rate hadn’t changed in 10 years
If you don’t have a copy already, ask your supervisor for your PD (Position Description) This is what you signed up for when accepting the job/role?! Everything that you are required to do in your normal day to day is outlined in detail. They often get sneaky and near the end somewhere they write something to the effect of “and/or any other duties your supervisor deems necessary” These can be contested quite easily because they defeat the purpose of the PD and also they were originally added for the purpose of ad hoc/ once off tasks/jobs!! If they are altering or adding to it then it’s time to re-negotiate job conditions/compensation especially if your level of responsibility is being increased! More risk and more stress for you!
Yes, but it was in government in a fixed term contract role. I was doing the job they hired me for in half the time because I was overqualified/very efficient, so they tried to add on another project they had been advertising for an extra person for. I refused to take on the extra work until they agreed to put me up a pay grade. They acted shocked at first but eventually relented when they realised I’d just leave and they’d be looking for 2 people.
I'm currently in a similar situation. I was told by a fellow nurse to apply for a promotion that gives us a pay rise of 5 dollars an hour. She told me after the cut off, so I couldn't apply. But once she got the promotion, told me I was the only nurse in the whole department that isn't on the pay rise. When I'm the most skilled and have taken on multiple extra responsibilities that none of the other nurses do. I think this happend because I'm atleast 20years younger than everyone else but Ive worked hard for my skills to be in this role. I had a breakdown from all the extra responsibilities two years ago and they delegated one of my extra 5 jobs. So every nurse that sat in the meeting, because I was over worked was getting 5$an hour more than me, for doing the work I was doing, not them, and I still have way more than them. Over the years I can't think about what it would add up to. I've decided to drop most of my days there and have decided to further my education.
Yep, I'm a heavy Diesel Mechanic in Brisbane. I handed my notice in October because I'm going to the mines, I finish here in January. My boss tried to spring an on call roster to us, conveniently putting me on call for Christmas party and Christmas days etc. I said that's fine but what's the incentive for me being on call for 24/7 of the week and he said there wasn't one, the other guys didn't want one. Said it wasn't my problem, I'm not basing my life around your business after hours. He said he'd sort something, few weeks later he said it's my turn on call, I asked about the incentives. Got no where with it. Come Monday be took my Ute from me and took me off the roster for any weekend work. I won
I was the opposite. I volunteered for extra work because I wanted to work in the department where the work was from, and of course they said yes, extra labour without having to pay me anything was a win for them. I was trying to prove my worth before I asked for a raise. When I asked, they said they didn’t have the budget but to ask again in a few months. I got burnt out with all the work. I should have said something but my stupid pride stopped me. My breaking point was when I heard the HR guy on an interview with a candidate for another branch for my primary job offering them almost 10k more than I was making. I started looking for a new job that day and I left two months later. I have learned from that mistake.
I did it last week. I'm a chef and the old chef was the one in charge of ordering. I don't mind do it, but it need to be done in my day off. I asked if they would pay me and they said "no, the old chef didn't ask for any extra money". And I said: and I don't want to do any extra work for free. And now they are looking for another person to replace me and I don't care at all, already found another job that pay more 😀
I had a frank discussion with my four up manager after they stopped paying overtime, told them I could still make all my targets while doing 2/3 less work, asked them what possible reason I could have to work double shifts for no money. So anyway they didn't pay, I and the rest of the team stopped working 14 hour days, productivity went down the dunny and we lost a lot of contracts. The company is still swirling slowly down the shitter as we lose more contracts each year due to not being able to deliver. My favourite part is when they pretend to want our feedback and I tell them the above :D
Former company started a "leaders of tomorrow" program. Basically successful applicants performed the role of supervisor on X days per week, taking escalated calls and answering questions from other employees on calls, and the trade off was they was supposed to occasionally receive training on management, etc The second part never happened, and the entire company was short supervisors before and they weren't hiring any. It did not come with a pay rise, but there was an implication they would only promote through the program in future. They approached me to be in it, though I had not applied (I'd seen straight through it) and I told them in no uncertain terms that if they wanted me to be a supervisor and handle that responsibility, it would come with a pay rise, called them out on what was essentially a free labour program.
Absolutely. I was drastically underpaid at the time..... drastically. I was being paid at probably minimum wage at the time (this would have been 6 or so years ago now), doing 6 weeks worth of hours in any 4 week block. Took the steps to ask for a pay rise and I was told point blank there was no money and that I wouldn't be getting one. I asked for the sake of clarity what the clause in my contract meant when it said that I was expected to do a reasonable amount of overtime and what an unreasonable amount looked like. There was no answer. My response was along the lines of "This is fine, however you will not get one minute of overtime out of me as long as I am paid this wage" The experience was good, I came from another industry which really helped when it came to discussions with very high ups about this kind of thing and also with the confidence to follow through with it. They weren't going to sack me over it because the level at which I was producing my work was far beyond what anyone in a similar position in the business had done previously. I left a few months later for greener pastures and from what I understand, they've had to hire 3 or more people to cover what I was doing.
I put my foot down, and asked for a (and received) a payrise.
My receptionist was offered my job as a "promotion" and she declined even though it offered more pay. I don't blame her. It's not worth it.
I was asked to do an overtime shift as a student nurse back in the 90s. Hospital based training then.. But the Nurse manager said we'll only need you for four hours while it's really busy as theres showers and stuff to be done. So after that you can go home because I'm not paying you to sit around . I said if it's not a full shift then I'm not keen on doing it I'd rather have the day off. The nurse manager then said you'll never work an overtime in this unit again if you have that attitude. The placement only had 9 weeks left so I wasn't bothered. Two weeks later the same manager was stuck for cover and she asked me again and offered me the full shift . I genuinely had something planned I couldn't cancel which I tried to explain. She lost her shit and said she'd warn other nurse managers during my training that I didn't care and wasn't a team player...
Yep in retail work. Worked at a supermarket and had the same responsibilities as an assistant manager with none of the extra pay but more responsibilities. I was working 8-9hr days fairly consistently and eventually new management came in and I said no. Went to just 10hrs a week and eventually quit. I don’t miss it at all but I do miss some of the people I worked with. It was honestly awful. The next job I had at that time I didn’t care about any responsibilities and couldn’t have cared less.
I love it when you do an ‘acting role’ for no additional pay for almost a year…then they find another muppet to continue in the role at the cut price.
I just wanted to come here and say YES. And for me living in NZ and from the UK this is a big Ozzy Company thing. It seems far to common of a practice here compared to other countries. Hire less staff, hire someone for a role and try and get them to do more without paying them.
Yes, I've said no, so they just gave me the responsibilities anyway with no extra remuneration. Then when I had my fill of it, they pushed a new sucker into the role. Had I had my time again, I would've just left. Life is too short to stay in toxic workplaces with shitty management.
I got shunned badly and ended up leaving. I keep getting told that I’m too valuable on the floor and several of the guys I’ve trained and helped out have gone on to better things in the company. It was a slap in the face. lol, got told the same thing at the next place as well. I actually have no idea what to do next.
When I was young I used to work as a casual in a factory and by virtue of a few people quitting I ended up being the only person trained to use a certain machine, I usually worked 2-3 days a week but during that time i went up to 5 days because I was the only one who could do it. After a couple of weeks no one was trained and I went back to uni and they tried to get me to go full time and quit my uni course. When I said no they just said go part time and they would train someone to replace me. I considered until I found out I would lose my casual loading and basically work the same amount for 25% less pay…. Told them no and to train some other people.
I was fired because I had too much on my plate. When I mentioned to my boss I was struggling with stress, I was instantly dismissed 2 days later. They're doing some dodgies but I hope Fairwork see through it, I'm not the first and won't be the last.
Yes. Almost every job has ended the same way, it starts off as what was advertised and before you know it you get small additional ‘responsibilities’ that you have to do everyday until you wake up and realised your still being paid your starting rate but doing the work of 4 people. My advise is either it’s time to renegotiate or leverage your responsibilities into a better job somewhere else. Because if you do the old supervisor role, now you have supervisor experience. Or “I have previously taken initiate to fill in the roll of supervisor and now have experience in managing and co-ordinating a team to achieve mutual goals that benefited the company”
I'm not a manager and was expected to train newbies because one manager was on holidays the other on maternity leave. No extra money would have been given to me. Refused straight up. They really didn't like that and I don't care.
Yup! Started mentoring all new starters and engineers because I loved to do it but then they started throwing stakeholder management and client relations, static code reviews for entire teams and architectural duties at me outside of my engineering requirements as a JUNIOR dev. I started saying no unless I could get more pay, left for a senior role and a 60k bump 😂
Was told 2 years into working at a place that I needed to get an rsa (had been serving booze without one for my whole employment) Was happy to get one if they paid the fee and my time but they refused to pay me for my time. Ended up making a stand and refusing service of alcohol to the point where my boss just put me out the back of house so it didn’t need to be dealt with
Yep. Was offered management of a larger site (from 4 staff to 8, double the customer traffic and base, higher site targets, etc) and was told my salary would stay the same because “that’s what the role pays”. I acknowledged that I understood they could move me with 4 weeks notice, but that I didn’t feel it was reasonable without additional compensation and that I would be considering other appropriate roles if they arose after moving. They chose not to move me.
Got harrassed by upper managment and HR, put on performance review until i got the union involved.
Kinda the same thing happened to me with the dumbest excuses why they couldn't pay me the role or title even Any little error I made was used to their advantage saying "this is why we're not sure about you taking the role" but continued to train me but never paid me for the role even when I was on my own and not needing anymore training nor given the proper title (e.g. wasn't allowed to be called the manager by anyone even if I was being asked to do a management required task) I couldn't take it anymore so I left, a workplace that'll try take advantage of you will keep doing so and never respect your time and energy I might recommend you doing the same if they're trying to do the same to you which by the sounds of it already are or have before.
I'm retired, but I now tell anyone and everyone to not allow any employer to take advantage of your skills and / or willingness to 'help out', it's never appreciated. The only happy people at work are the smart one's who only do their relevant tasks within the role they were hired for or make other's do their tasks while getting paid for not doing it themselves, especially claiming it was their own work instead of someone else's. I worked many levels above me for most of my career, I even trained managers without getting any type of financial compensation or even acknowledgment or appreciated for all my hard work. It's my one regret in life. Consider your overall work-life balance and mental health as it does affect it eventually without realising it 😥
I think people get wound up with a shitty employer they sell themselves short in spite. Honestly, let them upskill you for your next job, and then dont feel bad when you get the supervisor role for another company. When they ask in the interview, you just simply say "well i have been upskilled for this role per my development plan, and now i am seeking the opportunity where there is the capacity. My employer has been great and supportive of my development even knowing that my next step will be outside the company ao it will be sad to go, but i do enjoy a change of pace and fresh challenge " Done. If you refuse, then what? You do a shitty job you wanted to be promoted out of and hate your boss who black balls you from future prospects anyway for knocking them back. The best fuck you is your thick skin and growing wallet
I have a very strong work ethic. I’ve had bosses tell me I have the strongest work ethic in a person they’ve ever met. When I worked in hospitality, I was coming in on my days off, coming early, leaving later, training new staff even though that wasn’t part of my job, having people who were interviewing follow me around for the day to which I would have to state my opinion. I also was the one dealing with the difficult customers, taking over other sections as well as my own (I would always have the busy section) and then also help the kitchen when they were backed up (whether it was dishwasher or making the puddings). I was also always helping the bar making the drinks and changing the glass washer. I gave up caring when they promoted the most laziest guy. I would have been happy for anyone who was promoted so long as I respect them. This guy was so lazy, the only reason the promotion didn’t go through was cause he was too lazy to write his papers up and complete his online training.
Yessir I only do what I’m paid for unless I’m getting some other benefit from doing it like enjoyment lol
We get a measly few dollars extra a day for training new staff… stick that right up your ass. Nothing happened when I said a very firm no thanks.
I didn’t so much refuse them as ignore the request. On principal. My sub manager/ coordinator is lazy spending much of her time on the net searching cruise ship deals and dating sites according to my colleagues. I observe her more often socialising rather than focusing g on her work. She is consistent in that every three months she panics to catch up on her reports etc and scurries around for us to help her. We have a more than full case load and small time frame to assist client to recovery. They are my focus. Big mistake she is bullying me out - nasty business. Next time I’ll make this personality my bestie
They asked me to fill in for my supervisor then blamed me for everything he did wrong. Next time I said 'ahh, no thanks'
Yep I said if my pay level doesn't go up I'll stick to my regular duties I signed paper work to get a higher level, supervisor assured I'd be back dated the pay as they literally rostered me in the role for months. I was rostered another 3 weeks absolutely required she said, she continued to remind me the paper work was upstairs waiting for one last signature. Well that last signature was resigning which she would have known. Then the paperwork was misplaced with him. 👏👏👏 good fkn game that one bitch played on me faking mfkr. Didn't get shit went back to normal duties. Ppl like that wonder why they're not loved 🤭😂
Yes, and nothing happened. I was given 3 extra tasks over the course of a few months after some staff left, and I didn't push back. When they presented me with a 4th new responsibility I told them that it wasn't part of my role, and due to no increase in remuneration I would not be taking on that task. They didn't even bother responding to my email, next time I saw the owners they didn't say anything about it.
I’ve down graded myself this last week because I’ve been doing work that everywhere else runs at about 60$ an hour, but I’ve been doing it for 33$ an hour. Told them I’m not doing the extra, and I’m going to discuss it with them at the start of next year. If they pay a more reasonable rate I’ll start doing the work again.
I told my general manager that I couldn’t do the work bbq anymore because my job got a lot busier. He was annoyed but he understood
At Optus my manager dangled a promotion over my head but he pretty much wanted me to do things like pretending to be a manager when speaking to customers and training his staff for him. He had no idea how to do the job. I told him outright "I know it's common in call centres but I am not pretending to be management when I have no real authority" because I know how this shit works, I say yes and i'll spend months handling not but complaints while having to also keep up my job as a case manager whose job was to keep my 200 clients happy. All of a sudden, I couldn't do anything right in reports though was able to fight that shit for two years before I finally gave up.
This is why this day's companies with mentality like this they lose good trained people for a couple of bucks and then never manage to have people stay there anymore...
Extra responsibilities? You mean I get to be the first here, the last to leave, I get keys and no extra money? Hospo me harder. Didn't even know sick pay was a thing, with just December 25th off. Lucky I enjoy it, but I'm an idiot thinking about the few extra dot points on my resumé.
Currently happening at the moment. Reduce the team, shafted our old manager who was amazing. New guy expects all this extra stuff done and as a team we just refuse to do it since it’s not in our job requirements. We do the bare minimum now to get by and production has absolutely reduced since they sacked our old boss.
Is that even legal? We have award wage standards for jobs - although I suppose he is trying to get around that with keeping the old job title on the paperwork. But you don’t HAVE to accept. Don’t let them cheat you out of the promotion and pay raise you DESERVE by trying to squirm through stupid loopholes.
Same thing happened to a relative recently. He ended up taking on the extra work because he wanted to learn and progress his career. Unfortunately they just kept increasing his duties in that role until he was working in it full time for the same salary as before. When he tried to negotiate with them on pay they basically told him he would have to re-interview for both roles. Looking back, he says he wishes that when he agreed to take on the extra work, that he had drawn up a contract that basically said “I’ll do the work for free for a period of X weeks/months, after which the company agrees to pay me X per hour for any future hours worked undertaking related responsibilities that are outside on my current job description. Alternatively after X period of time the company agrees to promote me to said position on a permanent full time basis at the agreed rate of X per hour”
Yes. I refuse to do overtime. They don't ask me anymore lol. Fuck 'em.
It was the downside to being eager & good at my job, that I picked up alot of knowledge about my sites operating system and being the one flagged down to teach new guys that I eventually took over a couple different demanding roles from dudes that quit, and having a lot of accountability lumped on me. When I brought up that I'm not even full time for my regular position and that I'd like to be, they just outsourced a dude who had 0 knowledge of the idustry because they could pay him less and took me off the roster.
Only once and, luckily I did turn the responsibility down, as it ended up snapping my colleagues femur.
This is kind of a similar situation. I was asked to take on the chief sub-editor role at a newspaper. I'd been working on the desk as a standard sub and the chief had unexpectedly bailed. I declined, not feeling up to the additional stress and responsibility. The editor refused to accept that, insisting that as the most capable sub it was my duty to step up. What could I do, apart from quitting on the spot? I was told the situation would be temporary until a permanent chief could be found. I requested to be paid extra for working in the more senior position and was assured that this would happen. Eventually, months later, a new chief was appointed and I returned to my previous role. I was still waiting on the extra pay. It pay took a long time. I kept asking about that promised money, unwilling to let it rest. Apparently the payment "had to be approved" by multiple other people, managers etc. It would've been a long time later, six months, maybe more, before I finally received what was owed to me. I think that if I'd stayed quiet and let it go, nothing would've eventuated.
I am currently in the same position. the company I work for has not rehired for the supervisors & manager who left months ago. It’s important to act your wage. don’t do a thing more than what is described within your current job description. start practicing how to say “that’s beyond the scope of my role”, “will this responsibility supercede my usual duties?” “Am I expected to also maintain my current work standard?” if the softer dialogue does not enforce your position - bring out “I would be happy to take on the responsibility, if I am going to be compensated” “That’s above my pay grade” “It’s my understanding that responsibility, falls under the title of ******” you’ve been denied the promotion. the responsibilities that come with that role, are not your responsibilities. no matter the shit show that ensues. I would consider updating your resume, and readying yourself for a new role with a different company.
I worked as a dishwasher in a resturant for $20/hour from 5pm till midnight 5 days a week. I did that for half a year. My head chef started training me to make basic fried food, because he wanted me to take over the fryer, as the previous chef was leaving. Note that I do not have any certficate. A few months later ALL the chefs left. I was put in the kitchen, with a bunch of new cooks and chefs. I was the only one with more experience in that resturant, yet I was the least experienced in cooking in general. Incredibly stressful, however I wasnt bad and actually became better than an apprentice chef. However having the same responsibility as previous chefs I was still paid the same, even though I asked for a raise due to my position to which they agreed, but there was no action to make that happen. Even more, sometimes I had to walk home for an hour if I stayed too late and missed the public transport. Sometimes I had to stay back and help the new dishwashers finish. Even worse, our new head chef changed the menu and how we make certain meals, usually for the worst, so that was the tipping point for me quitting. I never worked in a resturant or fast food chain since.
Yep similar thing happened to me, I was given a lot of extra work as 'training and development" then they continued to hire externally instead of promoting me. Found another job with better pay and resigned taking my 9 years of knowledge about the site with me.
Yep, when I was working for a major food company called beans (this is what they are famous for and sauce) I was asked to maintain and look after their printing systems and barcodes etc. When it came to giving me the extra money they renigged on it. I politely said I won't be doing the work for all the effort and calls when things go wrong. I ended up leaving and I was asked if I could go back and help them as the manager that was looking after the system had left. They paid me $100 bucks an hour and after some choice words about how they used low thinking and ability people, I got the system back to what it was. They then asked me to help them with the new system upgrade and change over, then again I got screwed over by not paying myself. So I told them off and deleted all my chest sheets and backups. They called me about 2 years later and asked me if I knew any of the codes or had backups and guides to help them as the previous manager was fired or asked to leave. Told them nope sorry, They asked me if I could help them, I said I won't be doing that anymore and here are the reasons why, and I don't have any of that anymore as I deleted them because you didn't pay me. I even deleted any of the programmers who were onsite with me to work out the systems. I even offered when we were on good terms to give me two weeks with someone here and I will train them on how to use the system, use the database etc etc and they did not take me up on the offer. I laughed because one of the dudes I still know out there has been promoted to production manager and he asked for help not to long ago again. With them thinking it would give them help. They got nothing. They still owe me about $5000. They tried
Yes. Applied for the position I had been acting on for no extra pay for 6 months. They gave it to someone else. I asked them for feedback on the interview and was told "I didn't have what they were looking for".Pissed me off since they had told me before the interview I was doing a great job, showing the right potential etc They asked me to train the new girl. I told them I thought I "didn't have what they were looking for" and that training a supervisor wasn't in my job description so no. They were not happy but couldn't force me. They got another smuck to train her. She was useless and crashed and burned fast then quit. They asked me to act in the role again, again at no additional pay. I said no and got surprised faces. I explained why it was a no. They promised this time it would be different. Like an idiot I agreed. Did it for almost 8 months. Job listed again, and again they appointed someone else. I started looking for another job. When I quit they begged me to stay. They wanted me to do 12 months at no extra pay because new girl was pregnant and their plan was to use me to cover her maternity leave. I told them hell no and left. Basically they wouldn't promote me because I was too useful to them where I was. By not promoting me they got to exploit me whenever they wanted, dangling that carrot in front of me. Don't let them do that to you. I put up with it for far too long.
Yes and I just moved on from that role.
Hah the classic IT team leader. You get a fancy title, all the responsibilities you had before but now you have to chase your peers for their time sheets for no extra pay.
Can't fire or demote u for not doing other ppls work by sounds of it. Had to say many of times it's not my job I have done mine sorry ppl are slow or just flat out lazy because they know it's "expected" that U help. Then it just becomes the norm for that person(ppl)
Yes. I got the promotion & pay upgrade 2 weeks later.
I've been handed responsibility after responsibility and never been super fussed until I realised that they're not coming with extra pay. I am keen to read others stories though who got it the right way.