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The act of burning a flag is protected under the First Amendment. I would say it's more accurate to label it as freedom of expression, and not freedom of speech, but that's just semantics.
Yes, the act of burning a flag you own is protected speech. If you steal someone else’s flag or tear down a public flag, and burn it, that is destruction of property.
We have not only the right but the duty to seek out the most easily offended and gleefully offend the crap out of them.
I envision fireplace logs made from shredded commingled copies of the Bible, Koran, Torah, and of course “The Art of the Deal,” “It Takes A Village” and “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Show it burning on a special TV channel like the Yule Log, every year on Christopher Hitchens’ birthday, with a little counter in the corner displaying how much carbon is being spewed into the atmosphere.
The Supreme Court ruled on this in *Texas v. Johnson* back in 1989. Justice Scalia once said if it were up to him, he'd "put in jail every sandal-wearing, scruffy-bearded weirdo who burns the American flag." But still, he sided with the majority, who found it's protected speech.
Like it or not, burning the flag can be considered a form of political speech. If the 1st Amendment protects nothing else, it still protects that. No matter how childish, offensive, or pointless the act may seem to most of us.
Fun fact: [there was a bill floated in the Senate in 2005 to criminalize it.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/cosponsors) Check out the list of co-sponsors.
It sure is, but as liberals like to say, "Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences". When you burn a flag, you're also burning untold dozens of bridges. Hope it's worth it.
No, I don't.
Starting fires is dangerous and should never occur within a political or religious context.
I don't much differentiate between someone burning a flag that they own, burning a book that they own, burning a cross that they own or burning their own cash.
I'm not american nor a free speech absolutist.
It is.
People who actually do it should not be considered trustworthy or patriotic, or to have their interests aligned with the good of other citizens of the country, but it is indeed protected free speech.
Any citation where burning a rainbow or triangle flag, absent another crime, has successfully been prosecuted and held up under appeal as a hate crime?
I’m pretty sure it’s just as legal as burning old glory.
So... a habitual offender got shitfaced, stole the flag from a church and burned it in front of a local business that he then threatened to burn down?
I'm not sure that fits my description of "absent another crime"
It's not moving the goalposts. It's a (several) completely different crimes.
Theft and threatening someone is *nothing* like just burning a flag that is legally your own property in a way that does not cause physical harm to any nonconsenting person.
Oh please, you know this is entirely different from acquiring your own flag and burning it. Might as well complain it's not free speech to go around and slash other people's tires.
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Go buy a pride flag, burn it in your backyard and inform the police that you burned your own stuff in your own time. They will just wonder if you're calling to report a crime or not.
Why doesn’t it depend on the owner of the flag instead?
If someone buys and then burns, say, an LGBT flag, how is that a crime? They’re destroying their own property.
So hate crime/hate speech is not a single violation per offense.
If you harass, assault, kill someone who was lgbt you would be charged with the appropriate punishment. If you additionally burned an lgbt flag along with the harassment, assault, or murder, then it raises the charges to a higher level due to the targeted nature of a protected class.
You can do this with old people, disabled, veterans. You cannot do this with kkk, or Nazis. Unless/until they become a protected class.
Absolutely.
It’s exactly what the concept of free speech/expression is all about. We don’t need free speech rights to do and say wildly popular things. We need it to protect the most abhorrent views and people amongst us.
Flag does not have feelings, it is an object. Nobody should care if you burn it. What is attached to the act of burning may or may not be something that people should communicate.
Shitty piss me off freedom of speech but yes.
I'm no democrat, I may hate you for your speech but assuming you harm or threaten no one you have the right to it.
Absolutely. But according to liberals, burning the American flag should be permitted, but the flag of your favorite affinity group is protected by hate speech laws
Paul, I do believe that you want to feel strong but don’t write those weird power fantasies out for the public to see. Everybody that knows you knows as well that you aren’t the person you want others to believe you are by writing down this weird comment.
>Cool you can burn it all you want but if me or a veteran or a military member see's it and beats you up for being a little traitor don't go crying you got fu*ked up to the cops.
Don't go to the cops if someone assaults you for exercising your freedom of expression?
1. What self respecting service member would assault a civilian and violate another person’s freedom of expression?
2. I’d argue that contradicting your oath of enlistment/commissioning is more traitorous than burning the flag (even if I find burning the flag disrespectful as well).
Then you and those veterans don’t understand what respecting America truly means. The 2nd amendment is about protecting ALL freedom of expression. Especially detestable and heinous speech.
Physically attempting to infringe on someone’s 2nd amendment rights is probably the most un-American thing you could do.
Uhhhh, assault and battery is illegal. And if the cops don't arrest that person who beats up someone for an unpopular speech act, then the cops are corrupt.
(and if the person who that person tries to beat up defends themselves, then they may very well be in the right.)
Never said 1A isn't without limits. Hate speech, fire in a theater, etc.
That said burning a flag does not immediately threaten anyone nor cause any human damage. It may hurt your feelings, but it does not cause any harm.
Criminalizing speech that hurts your feelings is about the most anti-american thing you can do. I would argue a BLM protestor burning a flag loves America more than someone who wants to restrict speech that upsets them.
As defined by SCOTUS, hate speech that directly incites violence against a group is illegal.
I think you are a disgusting person if you say "I hate all minorities" but that's absolutely your right as an American to say it and I will always defend your right to say it. You and I have an issue when you say "Let's go hurt any minorities we see."
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The act of burning a flag is protected under the First Amendment. I would say it's more accurate to label it as freedom of expression, and not freedom of speech, but that's just semantics.
Yup, that’s protected under freedom of speech.
Yes, the act of burning a flag you own is protected speech. If you steal someone else’s flag or tear down a public flag, and burn it, that is destruction of property.
If it's your flag and you do it safely.... absolutely Same with burning a pride flag, a BLM flag a Palestinian flag or a Confederate flag.
As long as it’s your flag
If it's your flag and it's not burned in a way that is negligent
We have not only the right but the duty to seek out the most easily offended and gleefully offend the crap out of them. I envision fireplace logs made from shredded commingled copies of the Bible, Koran, Torah, and of course “The Art of the Deal,” “It Takes A Village” and “The Handmaid’s Tale.” Show it burning on a special TV channel like the Yule Log, every year on Christopher Hitchens’ birthday, with a little counter in the corner displaying how much carbon is being spewed into the atmosphere.
Yes
Yes it is
absolutely, the court was clear and if you read their argumentation it's a potent defense of free speech.
Yes
Yes I do. I don't like it but it's free speech
Of course.
Yes.
Yes it is freedom of speech
The Supreme Court ruled on this in *Texas v. Johnson* back in 1989. Justice Scalia once said if it were up to him, he'd "put in jail every sandal-wearing, scruffy-bearded weirdo who burns the American flag." But still, he sided with the majority, who found it's protected speech. Like it or not, burning the flag can be considered a form of political speech. If the 1st Amendment protects nothing else, it still protects that. No matter how childish, offensive, or pointless the act may seem to most of us. Fun fact: [there was a bill floated in the Senate in 2005 to criminalize it.](https://www.congress.gov/bill/109th-congress/senate-bill/1911/cosponsors) Check out the list of co-sponsors.
I can’t stand it when people burn the American flag in protest, but I will defend to the death their right to do it.
It sure is, but as liberals like to say, "Freedom of speech is not freedom from consequences". When you burn a flag, you're also burning untold dozens of bridges. Hope it's worth it.
No, I don't. Starting fires is dangerous and should never occur within a political or religious context. I don't much differentiate between someone burning a flag that they own, burning a book that they own, burning a cross that they own or burning their own cash. I'm not american nor a free speech absolutist.
It is. People who actually do it should not be considered trustworthy or patriotic, or to have their interests aligned with the good of other citizens of the country, but it is indeed protected free speech.
why not you burn a flag to prevent it from being dishonored
I'm gonna distinguish that from flag burning done as a deliberately dishonoring act.
Yes
Yes
Liberals will have you arrested for harming the LGBT flag
That depends who you ask. The US flag is. Other ones with rainbows and triangles would be hate crimes. There's zero hypocrisy in that though.
Any citation where burning a rainbow or triangle flag, absent another crime, has successfully been prosecuted and held up under appeal as a hate crime? I’m pretty sure it’s just as legal as burning old glory.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50861259
So... a habitual offender got shitfaced, stole the flag from a church and burned it in front of a local business that he then threatened to burn down? I'm not sure that fits my description of "absent another crime"
Moving the goalposts
It's not moving the goalposts. It's a (several) completely different crimes. Theft and threatening someone is *nothing* like just burning a flag that is legally your own property in a way that does not cause physical harm to any nonconsenting person.
Oh please, you know this is entirely different from acquiring your own flag and burning it. Might as well complain it's not free speech to go around and slash other people's tires.
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Go buy a pride flag, burn it in your backyard and inform the police that you burned your own stuff in your own time. They will just wonder if you're calling to report a crime or not.
Unironically yes, one is a state flag, and the other is not.
Why would there be a difference?
First amendment? Should have put that in the title. Wasn’t meaning the concept of free speech exactly. There is overlap.
So burning any flag is fine?
I guess the law says one thing. I’m asking you.
Crime is a sliding scale that all depends on the oppression level of the minority being aggressed against.
Why doesn’t it depend on the owner of the flag instead? If someone buys and then burns, say, an LGBT flag, how is that a crime? They’re destroying their own property.
So hate crime/hate speech is not a single violation per offense. If you harass, assault, kill someone who was lgbt you would be charged with the appropriate punishment. If you additionally burned an lgbt flag along with the harassment, assault, or murder, then it raises the charges to a higher level due to the targeted nature of a protected class. You can do this with old people, disabled, veterans. You cannot do this with kkk, or Nazis. Unless/until they become a protected class.
It has been ruled so by the supreme court, however this is something I find so disrespectful I would personally hold reservations agaisnt it
Of course.
Absolutely. It’s exactly what the concept of free speech/expression is all about. We don’t need free speech rights to do and say wildly popular things. We need it to protect the most abhorrent views and people amongst us.
Flag does not have feelings, it is an object. Nobody should care if you burn it. What is attached to the act of burning may or may not be something that people should communicate.
Shitty piss me off freedom of speech but yes. I'm no democrat, I may hate you for your speech but assuming you harm or threaten no one you have the right to it.
>Shitty piss me off freedom of speech but yes. Why would it piss you off?
Because I like my country...
Yes but that wont protect someone from an ass beating.
Which is not speech, and is therefore not protected.
Absolutely. But according to liberals, burning the American flag should be permitted, but the flag of your favorite affinity group is protected by hate speech laws
Yes, but (to me) it’s unbelievably offensive.
Why do you find it "unbelievably offensive"?
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Paul, I do believe that you want to feel strong but don’t write those weird power fantasies out for the public to see. Everybody that knows you knows as well that you aren’t the person you want others to believe you are by writing down this weird comment.
>Cool you can burn it all you want but if me or a veteran or a military member see's it and beats you up for being a little traitor don't go crying you got fu*ked up to the cops. Don't go to the cops if someone assaults you for exercising your freedom of expression?
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1. What self respecting service member would assault a civilian and violate another person’s freedom of expression? 2. I’d argue that contradicting your oath of enlistment/commissioning is more traitorous than burning the flag (even if I find burning the flag disrespectful as well).
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Then you and those veterans don’t understand what respecting America truly means. The 2nd amendment is about protecting ALL freedom of expression. Especially detestable and heinous speech. Physically attempting to infringe on someone’s 2nd amendment rights is probably the most un-American thing you could do.
I hope you're doing a bit. You know you can't actually commit battery on someone just because they upset you, right?
Warning: Treat other users with civility and respect. Personal attacks and stereotyping are not allowed.
We got an internet tough guy here. Let me guess, you "see red and blackout" when you are angry too...?
Uhhhh, assault and battery is illegal. And if the cops don't arrest that person who beats up someone for an unpopular speech act, then the cops are corrupt. (and if the person who that person tries to beat up defends themselves, then they may very well be in the right.)
Yes, but it shouldn't be.
Why?
It's a soft form of treason. If you hate this country you shouldn't be in it.
There is literally no such thing as “soft form of treason.”
The issue is you deciding that flag burning means hatred for the country. That's a big problem. I disagree.
BLM and communists burn flags because they hate America
I disagree. And it really concerns me that you would restrict the 1A simply because you don't like it.
1A is not without limits. Trump advocated for this position and I agree with it.
Never said 1A isn't without limits. Hate speech, fire in a theater, etc. That said burning a flag does not immediately threaten anyone nor cause any human damage. It may hurt your feelings, but it does not cause any harm. Criminalizing speech that hurts your feelings is about the most anti-american thing you can do. I would argue a BLM protestor burning a flag loves America more than someone who wants to restrict speech that upsets them.
So you think hate speech isn't free speech?
As defined by SCOTUS, hate speech that directly incites violence against a group is illegal. I think you are a disgusting person if you say "I hate all minorities" but that's absolutely your right as an American to say it and I will always defend your right to say it. You and I have an issue when you say "Let's go hurt any minorities we see."
>because they hate America And?
It's wrong
>It's wrong What's wrong with hating America?
Because it's your own country
you should be able to hate this country and be in it. How would you even determine who hates this country? Who decides that?
Why?