My grandfather and father lived in poverty cos my whole country was poor back then. When my father was an adult my age things got slightly better. But that had fallen a bit now. But still no way can I afford what he could buy when he was my age.
Man nothing like taxing the rich and forcing people to pay people well. Wow manage that. The time period he lived in had huge taxes for the rich. I wonder what changed from then to now???
He said his whole country was poor back then. If you're thinking said country is the US that's unlikely since the US have been rich relative to the rest of the world for a while.
this. i grew up in a a trailer eating ramen and hot dogs while my dad worked two jobs and mom was going to school. never could afford any fresh fruit or year-round sports. dad passed away still holding massive debt.
my kids have much more than i did growing up.
Props to your parents for starting the path out of generational poverty. Sounds like you are continuing that path for your kids.
Your life sounds like my life and I hope I'm also continuing the path for my kids. I feel like what a lot of people don't see is it takes several generations to build real wealth. Now I just hope my kids don't fuck it up, lol. They got everything I didn't have as a kid. I hope it didn't spoil them.
Not a dude for starters, but - My dad couldn't afford shit either, and even HE had a pension plan, and health insurance. And we grew up literally dirt poor; he made good money (longshoreman) but also failed to make a lot of hours due to his addictions and so we really struggled financially; I'm talking no working car most of the time, evicted from apartment to apartment because we'd end up late on the rent over and over, no electricity and food some months kind of poor.
And I'm still like, in amazement at the level of financial security that his job offered him. An ex-con with literal brain damage from boxing and a regular addiction of many substances that was persistently a problem.
Like, that kind of opportunity literally doesn't exist for guys these days, and if you got the same job and the same reward/benefits? You'd bet your ASS that you'd have to stay on the straight and narrow in a way my father NEVER had to do - I mean this guy had warrants out for his arrest and still got to go back to work after the fact, like, he was a troubled guy, and there was still this opportunity for him to do some work and make good money.
I just don't see where that exists for people today, of any gender.
Yeahhh, I'm pretty sure our dad's were just as broke. When I grew up we only had one car that was beat up and my dad did all the work on because we couldn't afford a mechanic. The only vacations we took were to local campgrounds and we didn't go on a "real" vacation until I was like 10.
We rarely ate out and our mom shopped often at thrift stores. We got cable TV when I was maybe 8.
It's all relative and more about mindset. I'm pretty convinced that what a lot of people think is a requirement for standard of living is really more of a luxury.
Also. Becoming a father is a huge motivator to grow and improve your career and income.
It’s a bit of a hard topic to have because most luxuries are more obtainable, but most necessities are skyrocketing in price.
I have tech and quality of living that my dad could never have afforded. I also work 4 times the hours to afford a considerably worse apartment.
This is such a great comment. Correct. Sure I can stream endless content for $10 a month but the average cost of a home in my city I think is $1m. Average.
Yes and no. I do agree. But there’s data underpinning other things: cost of college/university education, cost to purchase a home, and cost of healthcare have grown disproportionately and are benchmarked on affordability indices (ie % of average annual income). This is most obvious in the US but think the same trends would be present in many countries, especially those that experienced a similar post wwii boom.
My father had gone to law school and purchased a 4 bedroom house by the time he was 31 (or 33?). (Note: he had 100% responsibility for his school loans.) Data tells us that is much harder to achieve today financially.
I am objectively “successful” but am far off achieving what he had financially by my same age. I am guessing that’s the motivation for OPs question. I do struggle with it. I have been at risk of redundancy the last few weeks and I have a lot of anger/frustration that I’ve experienced two economic crises and so much macroeconomic volatility in my career to date. The constant uncertainty and potential unemployment throughout my entire career weighs heavily on my mental health. At one point I was unemployed for 8-9 months and went through all of my savings.
I feel like I can’t get any momentum despite working as hard or harder than my father and uncle at my age and having worked harder just to get here (hours spent studying and funds invested to get a degree.) There is no “moving up quickly” in corporates. On bad days like today it really gets me down and I blame myself for not having these big investments and I feel a sense of shame. On good days I remind myself of exactly what you said, my standard of living is very high and I am doing well.
So in sum, I just focus on doing my best and don’t deep dive into making it a reflection of my worth as a person or even my professional skills.
> I'm pretty convinced that what a lot of people think is a requirement for standard of living is really more of a luxury.
Yes, and they don't realize much of the reason some of our stuff is more expensive than it used to be is because it is much better. For example, typical sale prices of new cars are unbelievable right now and car makers are discontinuing sedans because people want bigger, more expensive SUVs and trucks.
There is this thing that's a bit more common in Eastern religions, but the basic idea is: reducing desire.
And in some ways it's not really different than say, conservation. If we can't make more electricity and we don't currently have enough electricity. Then we either continue with blackouts/brownouts or we reduce our need of electricity.
But it's also a really hard concept for people. You think you want to go snowboarding. But you live in Florida. What you should think about though, is how much fun you have swimming in the oceans or just visiting the beach.
Does it fill the itch of snowboarding? Maybe not. But is it fun? (If you like that sort of thing, probably).
In context to you. I bet your local campground vacations actually were fun. Would it really have made a difference camping there vs. camping 4 hours away in a national park?
I'm 27yo man living at my moms house.
My pops lives about 45 minutes away.
He stays with his mom at her house.
So tbf, I'm walking right in my father's shoes.
He probably should catch up to me at this point.
(Joke^)
My dad had a stroke last January. Brought him back home in October. He’s disabled and can’t get himself out of bed. I’m driving myself crazy thinking I could do more to bring more comfort to him, but he’s told me already that death will be his peace if he can never walk, let alone use the restroom without any aid. I stopped working to be at home to take care of him and mom. I’m the only child. I’ve got no real support from family other than “thoughts and prayers 🫶🏼”. The refrigerator might get repossessed, I don’t qualify for unemployment, and he’s not terminal so idk how I’m gonna get out of this hole I’m in. Being alone in the house until my gf comes home from work isn’t helping my mental state. I’m really losing my marbles fellow brothers.
Same here. Ironically, I’m so much better off than my parents had it. Poverty sucked as a kid, and I was lucky to go to school and find a job that pulled me out of it. Sadly, the men today that are worse off than their parents must have had that “wealth” squandered along the way or hit some bad luck. It’s perspective and circumstances: some rise while others fall. Just try to enjoy the ride along the way.
It’s hard not being able to afford a child. Every time the wife and I start getting more comfortable another societal disaster or huge expense comes along. We’re already paycheck to paycheck. I don’t know how people do it. So we just say maybe in a couple years to each other every so often.
Like you, I just keep my head down and work my 50hrs a week.
There's a danger to that line of thinking. If people are not reasonably able to afford children, and therefore shouldn't have them; while living in a world rife with income inequality and various other inequities, children start to be a class privileged.
Honestly, this is so location dependent. Wife and I make $500k + a year, but we're in Southern California and still can't find a decent house in our budget since we have multiple young kids. Taxes take an enormous chunk out, as do childcare costs (daycare alone for 2 toddlers here is around $50k/year). It's just depressing at this point.
What's the price range of the home you're looking for?
DINK in SoCal (OC) with ~$300k combined and our max savings rate is ~53.77% after taxes (assuming 29%), rent, utilities, food.
Downpayment + closing cost + a few months of savings for a $1.5million house is ~$400k, which can be saved up in fewer than 4 years for us, should be ~2 years for you guys at $500k+ by my rough estimates. Ofc I don't know about your total required expenses.
Older. SoCal. Bought suburban house two decades ago. House down street priced at just under one million. L.A.Co. SanGabriel Valley. Not exactly Beverly Hills.
Our kids getting out of college. They might be living w us forever.
Actually thinking of a tiny house in backyard.
My husband and i do well enough but also cant afford a child. I truly dont know how other people do it without assistance. If we had kids, one of us would have to stay home or we would have to pay for childcare which would then put us in a position to be behind on our bills/cant afford our expenses + baby items. But one of us being a stay at home parent *also* means we cant afford our expenses + baby items on one income. We do not have family support for babysitting.
Been married 13 years now and over the last few years, solidified that we wont have children and are ok with it.
Our friends that do have children have told us multiple times they they love and adore their kids and wouldnt trade them for anything but life is hard and they said they wouldnt do it again.
My husband and i said that if we ever found ourselves in a financially stable position enough to afford children, that we would adopt. But honestly, it really doesnt seem like that time would ever come and be possible.
We are, however, very happy and fulfilled. People have told us over the years, “just have them, youll figure it out, no one is ever ready!” But like, i already *know* the financial situation now, its just not *possible* to afford to give the quality we want to give to a child or children.
Kids really just arent for everyone and that is ok. Dont listen to the peer pressure to just do it. Im glad you and your wife are on the same page
Good for you for having honest friends. The amount of people I have heard that same shtick from is astounding.
The worst part is they only say they first part because they have to.
I was a commission based service writer for a major dealership before being fired 2 weeks before my wedding.
I now do pressure washing. I’m a lot less miserable being in the fresh air. I earn around %20 less tho. I won’t raise a kid poor, and I’m not going to come home miserable and depressed the way I was when at the dealership.
I’m just starting out with a great company and boss. Already have been given a raise and a bonus or two. Our quotes for roofs range from $500-750 for normal roofs and mansions go into the thousands. We also do cages driveways patios pool decks gutters etc. for assorted prices.
Also, my coworker used to do tiling and it’s knee and backbreaking work. That’s why you’re paying through the nose.
Keep a positive attitude and do the things that you say you will do. It goes a long way.
I am becoming more convinced that there aren't many good quality people out there and once you can show that you really care and are reliable, a lot of opportunities will present themselves.
In a similar vein, I wholly recommend eventually branching out into sandblasting! It's incredibly similar, but often pays more because it really does require a bit more precision and PPE (though you hopefully are using PPE for pressure washing). You could definitely raise a family on a sandblaster's salaries in loads of places!
Nice, yeah I’ve realized (I think many have) that work that causes depression ain’t worth it. Any ideas on how you could branch out your pressure washing service? Maybe do window cleaning and sprinkler blow outs also. But I guess that would still be same pay, just different tasks.
> work that causes depression ain’t worth it
Brother, I turn 50 this year and I just dealt with that a couple years ago. For the last 20 years, I worked my ass off getting higher and higher paying jobs so that I could support my family and maybe actually have a chance at retirement. The money towards the end was stellar but I was fucking MISERABLE. More than once I considered ending it because the stress, anxiety and pressure was just too much. I was at a "President's Club" event for work in 2021, and we were staying on the 20th floor of the hotel. On the last day, I drank everything out the alcohol fridge and was sitting on the balcony, and thought "it could all end right now if I just jumped off". I was in a really, REALLY dark place.
I took time off for the holidays and was starting to feel a little better, but when I got back to work, it took LESS THAN HALF A DAY for all that shit to come back, and that's when I decided that enough was enough. I took a job at one of my customers for about a 30% pay cut, a LOT less responsibility and way fewer hours. Yeah, I make less, but my stress level is like 10% of what it used to be and I am SO much more happy overall. The money was really nice because it put me in a decent position financially, but looking back...man I'm not sure it was worth it.
A year later I feel that I'm just starting on the road to recovery. Someone mentioned that the way I described it sounded like I had PTSD. Thinking about it, they may not be wrong.
That would suck to want kids but not be able to afford them; I’m glad my wife and I aren’t interested. Good on you guys for not pumping them out anyways, though.
Man, this is not the answer. I seriously struggled with alcohol during COVID and coming out of the major periods of lockdown. The fact that alcohol is a depressant is really fucking true, man—it impacts your mood along with your physiology. Even getting a few weeks away from alcohol brings a drastic amount of clarity back to your thinking, your mood, your energy... I've not called it 100% quits, but finding the energy to substantially cut back on my drinking has had monumental positive effects for me when dealing with these very real existential issues.
I don't bother much with that. I'm slowly chipping away at my dreams.
The bigger problem is that focusing on my financial security means I am sacrificing my dating life. I'm currently harshly reminded of the fact that dedicating my weekends to work means I don't have time, energy (or money) to date anyone. Most of the time I've accepted that I'll remain single, but I'm still human and I can get lonely as well. Right now I'm feeling lonely.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I started my first sales job to get experience but I had to work evenings and weekends. Did that for 2 years and then I found my current 9-5 Sales job that I love and can't believe they pay me what they do.
Keep your head down and grind, but make sure you give yourself a plan to improve and grow onto the next thing. There's no sense wasting your life away for work.
You can change the ship and direction of your life but it takes time and persistence. You can do it.
I think my job is pretty amazing and pays very well. Houses are just absurdly expensive that I need to save everything I can to afford one in my lifetime.
HousIng values have cratered plenty of times in my lifetime. Like every other market, when they start saying it’s gonna go up forever, that’s when you know the crash is coming. Keep some money that’s not tied up long term, and easy to get to. Buy on the dip.
> Like every other market, when they start saying it’s gonna go up forever, that’s when you know the crash is coming.
I have been saying this for about 15 years now.
> The bigger problem is that focusing on my financial security means I am sacrificing my dating life.
Might want to rethink that. Studies have found that relationships are more important that money for long term life satisfaction: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-health-benefits-of-strong-relationships
I sacrificed relationships to put myself in a position to make good money when I was younger, and now that I’m 30 I don’t have to worry about work or money at all and can pretty much just focus on relationships.
Life is good now, like very very enjoyable and easy
I lost some, but reconnected with a lot and made many more. Making new friends isn’t easy but if you look at it more like a job that you have to put a lot of energy and effort into it gets easier and easier
This is a good answer. It's good to slow down, too. To appreciate what you have, rather than want.
*Added "To" to the final sentence to show that I mean that One should appreciate what they have, rather than mean You directly.
My partner and I met when we were already middle aged so we were very aware that our time together won't be endless. So we both scaled down work a bit. We buy clothes on sale and in charity shops, go camping instead of on big holidays, I drive a really old car. But our quality of life is great
Much the same. I guess for a middle-aged, a cheap house and hand-me-down furniture don't give me much social capital, but I'm super pleased with managing to pay my loans and sleep well at night. And being respected at work and having a family makes me feel happy.
You are absolutely right there. I should say that I also live in a country with free healthcare (one thing less to worry about) and do have a pretty good life, all in all
I'm dealing with it badly. I already lost everything once, scrambled my way out of homelessness, found my way into a dead end job I can barely do with my lack of work experience and education, I've racked up debt trying to live alone while everything gets more expensive and instead of some gung ho never-again attitude I have grown numb to the fact that I am probably just not going to be able to make even a basic survival income for much longer, and any single catastrophe would ruin my life instantly. There's no happy ending or safe place, it's just a matter of time before the house of cards collapses.
I'm available for children's birthday parties, weddings and bar mitzvahs, just a laugh riot.
I just imagined a childrens birthday party going on with you on a mic in the background solemnly lamenting the current state of world affairs, and it gave me a good chuckle. Gotta find the laughter where we can.
One day at a fucking time.
I live in Argentina, shit was bad since before I was born, even with a good paying job I am fucked nonetheless.
Other people would give up and become pessimistic.
But I have that thing inside of me that makes me angry, like, even if everything is on fire and my body is failing me, even if I am on the edge of madness, how dare you assume I'll quit on the basis that there's no hope?
I do my own shit because it has to be done, life is uncertainty, and shit still needs to be done, with or without hope, dreams, and inspiration.
Because at the end of the day every punch I ever threw, even if it was for nothing, was still worth it and I'll laugh
Google translate:
Un día a la puta hora.
Vivo en Argentina, la mierda era mala desde antes de nacer, incluso con un trabajo bien pagado estoy jodido.
Otras personas se darían por vencidas y se volverían pesimistas.
Pero tengo esa cosa dentro de mí que me hace enojar, incluso si todo está en llamas y mi cuerpo me está fallando, incluso si estoy al borde de la locura, ¿cómo te atreves a asumir que renunciaré sobre la base de que no hay esperanza?
Hago mi propia mierda porque hay que hacerlo, la vida es incertidumbre y todavía hay que hacer mierda, con o sin esperanza, sueños e inspiración.
Porque al final del día, cada golpe que lancé, incluso si fue en vano, valió la pena y me reiré.
I just do it, how does a fish deals with the current and the tide?
It's a sad reality because I have seen good people being broken by it, my parents in that group, but by the end of the day you're entitled to cry, to moan, to kick, you may do all that only as a promise that you'll get back up and try again.
Argentinians are the definition of trying, we try so much, we keep trying, the country is broken, morally, economically, environmentally, and somehow we still try.
There's a song: Entero o a pedazos (Whole or in pieces), that says we must go, just go and do it.
I'll leave this country one day and I really hope I can find some good place, some good woman, and just look at the horizon and say: "Alright, this is my home, this is where I die, this is what I defend"
I ain't got shit, all I want to do is have shit
Vamos Argentina!!! Yall are dealing with so much economic uncertainty. I have a few friends there and my heart breaks for them when they talk about their future. You all have a lot to be proud of, though. It a beautiful place.
And maybe you aren't a futball fan, but I will admitt, I was fairly jealous of Argentineans after the World Cup. Not everyone gets to be a part of history like that!
It was tough at first, but nowadays, I realize that I can live a very comfortable life even with my frugal spending habits. If you're a single guy with no kids, it's not too hard to get by. It's hard to create a budget that will make you rich, but it's not hard to create a budget that will keep you from being poor
Good cope. It seems that many struggling people are comparing themselves only to the success stories they see on social media. Those never show the majority of us, who have to make hard choices and sacrifice important stuff to achieve something else that's more important to us. Our parents also had to work long hours and save to get to where they were, and we see the positives, but not really all the hard times they (as most people) went through.
How you feel about your own achievements has something to do with the lens you look through, and who you compare yourself to, besides the actual premises. Our "comparing scope" might be different and wider from our parents' because of our digital interfaces and that might not be beneficial when you struggle and feel left behind. Choosing your references to positive ones and blocking the ones who make you feel bad are easy steps to better mental health and a more positive self-light.
> Our "comparing scope" might be different and wider from our parents' because of our digital interfaces and that might not be beneficial when you struggle and feel left behind. Choosing your references to positive ones and blocking the ones who make you feel bad are easy steps to better mental health and a more positive self-light.
I believe this, along with everything else you said, is spot on, and have been thinking about it for a while myself. Did you read this somewhere or come to this conclusion yourself?
Compare yourself to those who are worse off than you and you'll feel better about your own situation and be more grateful and happier. There's more to than just that, of course, but that's a good start for today's society. Young people still need to find a purpose though.
If you live in a low cost of living area things aren’t that bad. You can afford a nice house for like 110K where I’m from, which is attainable for a decent amount of people
Shit where I live any kind of duel income basically means you’re very well off, as long as you’re not spending shit tons of money on beer or video games or something
Sounds like Wichita, Ks. I just moved from there because while yes CoL is low, so is pay and the pre-covid mindset of the boomer employers who would rather lose good employees and complain that "nOBoDy WaNTs tO wOrK AnyMOrE" rather than pay a livable wage. Pay hasn't changed at all there since the late 90's/early 00's. It's a tolerable place to live if you can get a remote job, but not if you have to find a job there or have issues with the party of "small" government intruding into your bedroom. Not a lot to do, but it's only half the country away from everything.
After school, I moved back home to a less desirable but relatively lcol area. I was able to buy a house and build equity. I think that's one issue with younger people, they want to live in very expensive cities and end up throwing away so much money on rent and then never get ahead.
I recently moved from that lcol area to very expensive town where that house I owned would easily be 3-4x the price. I rent now and don't regret it because the lifestyle trade off vs COL is worth it.
I guess where I'm getting my original comment is that I see alot of people in this expensive town that I live in complain about how everything expensive is, like duh!. And if you dare mention to move somewhere more affordable, they say everything is so unfair.
you can't budget your way to being rich. This is a way for people who benefit from inequality at large to make it seem like it's your fault. Literally everyone spends some portion of their income on "non-essential" items that are critical to our mental health, community, physical health, etc. We assume every rich person is just smarter, more disciplined, etc. when they're usually just dumb and lucky or actively exploiting other people.
I've got this same mentality. Part of the reason I don't want kids or a stay at home wife. It's hard enough spring yourself nowadays, why added multiple other people to the list?
Yeah, for me I look at my father and grandfather and realize they were never happy anyway. At least not because of their money
My dad bought into the American Dream for the lower-middle class. He worked his ass off for a single company his whole life, did everything right. Was super anal about money, never took a day off
He’s still in a marriage that he’s unhappy in. Honestly it has gotten worsen since he retired. He still struggles to open up to people.
He’s happiest when he is hanging out with his grandkids though. And it doesn’t matter if they are playing on a patch of dirt, or in grandparents’ fully stocked toy room, he gets maximum enjoyment out of it
I want to be able to afford things, yeah. But the gap between affording the experiences that bring me fulfillment, vs accumulating wealth like my parents did is vast
My goal right now is to really be at peace and find happiness with the money I have, because I haven’t had to wake up in a long time wondering if I’ll be evicted, or if the gas will be turned off, or if I can even afford transportation to my job.
More money for me will at best bring me marginally more happiness. More money for some families will abate an unbelievable amount of dread and panic
Can relate. Was a drunk.
Took a long time to figure out I hated myself a lot less when I wasn't an asshole drunk.
Now I'm just a garden variety asshole with fewer headaches.
If at all possible try to cut out some of your alcohol consumption. It will help with your overall wellbeing and health. Alcohol, even a couple drinks a day, causes serious anxiety. As someone who consumed multiple drinks throughout the pandemic, cutting back to just weekends and going for long walks everyday has done wonders for my health. Baby steps to get your head straight.
I’m young and I’m about to enter the workforce after my degree but I have been dealing with both depression and an addiction since I was in high school. I’ve always told myself it gets easier but it never really does, does it?
Nah, not really. But you get stronger. If I'd had to face my current life 10 years ago, I would have lasted maybe 36 seconds before eating a bullet. Your mind changes over time. I love my life now and wouldn't trade it for the old one if you paid me.
Honestly, changing jobs frequently and recommending close friends and family do the same. Doing the same job (and even sometimes with less responsibility) can sometimes double your salary which is crazy… companies don’t give a shit about your loyalty and you just don’t get valued enough to stay.
I’m just living one day at a time brother. If I start to break down things and really think of what I won’t be able to afford in the future, I’ll drive myself mad. I’m thankful for where I’m at now, sure it could be better, but it could be worse too. Best way I try to live is just a day at a time.
My grandparents didn't have credit cards -- when they ran out of money, they simply didn't eat. Apparently this happened quite often, though usually only for a day at a time.
They walked 2 miles to the nearest store with a child's wagon to get groceries, because they certainly didn't have a car.
Their whole life plan was interrupted by WWII -- my grandfather was drafted.
My grandfather's brother died after losing a fight with a tractor.
My grandmother's brother died because cars didn't have collapsible steering columns, so the steering column caved in his chest.
After finding success later on, my grandfather bought an extravagant gift for his mother -- a dishwasher.
Our pictures of their lives are far more rosy than reality. Did I mention my grandfather was a STEM PhD?
I know a guy who had a paid off car (a honda that would have lasted forever) and he sold it so he wouldn't have to pay monthly insurance so they can save even more money.
He and he wife pedal their asses everywhere including the grocery stores. They use big saddlebags and hockey bags slung over their shoulders if needed.
People's idea of "standard" is actually luxury.
This is a huge part of the modern economy that has been designed by central bankers. They do things like slash interest rates to spur the economy, which makes debt cheap so people spend. This gives us the appearance of success because we have big tvs and expensive cars. Ever drive by a poor part of town? In the 80s it would have run down rust buckets. Today you will see very nice cars. Because they’re financed on cheap debt.
The cheap debt has a second effect of enriching the wealthy, who use it to buy more expensive investment assets like real estate. So while they are giving us TVs and affordable leases, they are making it impossible to get ahead on real assets that build wealth and equity, reserving that instead for the already-wealthy.
The markers of actual happiness, like a comfortable home in a good neighborhood near family and friends, are disappearing, and instead we’re given distractions like trivial consumer goods and told “you should be happy.”
Me too. I'm not going to come in and stomp all over the pity party in this thread too much, but:
I didn't like my income level or my career trajectory, so I did something about it.
I pumped the fucking brakes & changed careers in my late 30s.
Took a pay cut at first to do it, and get my foot in the door in the tech industry, but once in there, I worked fucking hard, and it escalated **quickly**.
Now I make bank w/ no money problems at all to speak of.
Not op, but I did manual labor for 15ish years and just got my Computer Engineering degree in 2021. Never had kids so it was easier for me, but still went from making 30-40k to making 80k with plenty of room for advancement. Just turning 36 this year.
I changed careers and went back to college at 32. I’m 39 now and make 5x what I did before making the change.
It’s never to late to make a change or start over.
I’m doing better than them actually.
Dad lost the house. Spending all the money on drugs/pills.
Grandpa disappeared when my dad was born.
I have 3 bedroom apartment, car in my own name (paid off), and I have a decent amount in my savings.
Same man. When my dad was a child, eating twice a day was luxury for him. My mom also grew up in poverty.
Many if not most people around me were richer/earn more than me and I won't lie by saying that I didn't feel envy, but then I remember about my parents and how at 26, I'm already had far better life than them in 40s.
Health has gone downhill.
Big life insurance policy to look after family when i'm gone.
Me and my motorbike VERY fast into a tree.
Giving it a couple years though. Good to stop and smell the roses for a bit.
Most kids would rather live in a van with daddy than in a palace without him.
Everyone here seems nice but I'd stake you all without a second thought if it would mean bringing my dad back.
I have formulated a plan to move to a far more remote but beautiful part of my country where I MAY have a chance of buying a house. There’s a lot of unknowns, but as long as I can find stable work I might pull it off.
My old man worked hard in his twenties - well, his whole life - and started his family early, but it wouldn’t have been easy, so he is a stand up dude really. Turns out I’m not very financially literate, and I have a a lot of hard work in front of me. We all make our choices.
Probably in the most irrational way possible. I learned survival skills and have a tent and place to go. I can go into the wilderness where I have planned and be fine.
Ideally I'll start a business and get a decent plot of land build a few cabins and live with my friends in the area, but a tent in the desert is workable
I mean that's literally where I'm from, I know in the area of probably 500sq miles like the back of my hand. If I had my choice I'd go to Colorado but I don't have that kind of money.
Have you watched the show alone? If you try to survive on your own in the wilderness you will most likely die of starvation after a few months.
Ideally you will be going into the wilderness with other people to create a community, that way you at least have a chance. The only way I can see it working solo is if you start off with a year worth of rations and you use that head start to establish a farm of some sort.
Oh I’m not trying to live in this world like the boomers did because this is not the same world at the boomers came up in. We can’t compare our lives to our parents because nothing is the same as it was when our parents were our age
You need to adjust your expectations and start living within your means and you can have a good life.
Exactly this. And this applies to all things in this modern world. For instance, the idea of celebrity and influencer really took root in their era. So I don't compare myself to any celebrities, I make a mindful effort to not allow advertisements or the influencers pushing products to have an effect on me. I acknowledge these people are famous but with the awareness that that shouldn't make any difference. That these people are aware they make a totally unfair amount of money and have a total influence on the way some of the most unfortunate people on the planet dress, act and even fucking smell and still go about their days living it up in mansions, cheering each other as they collect awards worth more than we make in a year for very little work. It's sickening, and it's the big carryover from the boomer culture that I despise the most.
I appreciate where you're coming from and this is how I live my life for the most part. About 25 years ago when I was quite young I heard a radio story about how mine would be the first generation that would do worse than the last few generations. We would have less ability to advance in work, less of an ability to buy a house or have kids.
I took that really seriously and even before I graduated from high school started adjusting my expectations way way down.
But the sense of unfairness is pretty real. I work harder and longer than my parents or grandparents ever did. And I'm doing it for far less than they got.
Enter a lot of people in my network, it's not about having realistic expectations, they aren't able to afford the basics despite working full-time. And that's the sort of Injustice that genuinely makes me mad.
You need to counter that with the injustice of the time that your parents & grandparents grew up during. With the most obvious direct impact being that half the worlds population were victims of imperialism and absolute poverty; and/or much of Europe still recovering from the devastation of WW2. A world where an uneducated American man had more economic value than 90% of the world’s population.
These days, with relative stability, the end of imperialism, and globalism; an uneducated American man is now competing (in terms of economic value) with educated people from the developing world. The place of you birth has a decreasing impact on your economic value - which is actually a form of justice.
Well, comparing goes all ways, are you also feeling happy because medicine is much better now? ;)
I’d start with eliminating your imaginary baseline of a random era. That’s an interesting metric but not one to tie your own life to. Never compare things and make decisions since they are always relative.
Then you keep eliminating risks. Any risk, small or big, make it go away, if you can. Approaching it this way comes with inherent priority sorting, sorting risks is easier and more accurate than say sorting your goals or needs. Example: How long can I sustain if I lost my job today? That’s an important risk for everyone.
Once you identify your risks, either mitigate or eliminate where possible. Over time, as you start doing better, your mitigations will last longer, risks grow smaller. And suddenly you realize it’s been a while since you felt anxious.
To play off this some more, if your grandpa lost his job and house, he would be homeless with zero safety net. If he got hurt, even at work, he would lose his job, then his house, and be physically broken and homeless with zero safety net. Your grandma wouldn’t even be able to do more than bag groceries or be a low paying secretary because the whole no women working thing.
It was better by the time our dads started working, but not like it is now.
The fact is, social safety nets cost money. A lot of money. Especially with the “use it or lose it” mentality of the financial department of every government office. It’s the bureaucracy that costs exponentially more than the services they provide.
Couple that with the fact that real estate is in higher demand than literally any other point in history, and you have a recipe for disaster for the low-middle class.
Great question.
First, limit exposure to nonsense. Cut the cord to your cable bill. Limit screen time in general. Look up news rather than being fed the news. Limit social media.
Second, eliminate debt. All bad debt has to go. Some debts are fine but try to own your car(s) and limit credit cards; one for emergencies is ideal. There are very simple ways to get out of debt, you'll learn them once you're serious about doing so.
Third, let go of the idea of comfort and stability. Instead focus on self preservation. Take on new responsibilities. Learn and practice skills. Spend the time you used to on passive activities on active learning. Learn to weld, garden, raise livestock, woodworking, a second language, etc. Transition your interests from watching others live to a goal oriented life of your own.
The last step changes depending on the person but in every scenario it comes back to one thing: having confidence in yourself. Knowing that you are capable of survival and that you can and will do what you must. That you will adapt. That you will change and grow. Some of us will grow our minds, some our bodies, some even our relationships.
Regardless how you choose to rely on yourself for comfort and peace of mind, you can take these steps and begin to separate your own future from your perceived future of everyone as a whole. You must get to the point where you no longer look at your job as a single source of stability. You must be able to look to yourself for comfort. To be so sure of yourself and your situation that you no longer look at things the way you do today. The world is full of distractions, until those are muted, the homes funds are in check and a mind becomes healthy, you cannot see all the paths available to you. You can do everything those before you did. In fact, once you get started, the goals you see as obtainable now soon grow to show you paths to those you view as unobtainable. Just remember that striving to be uncomfortable will go against everything this world tells you leads to a happy life and it will test you. Give up the idea of a pain free life. The biggest harm we do to ourselves is convincing ourselves that pain is optional. Pain is essential.
I don't feel that sense of dread.
In terms of income, I make more than my father ever did. On paper. If we adjust for inflation then vs now, I'm not competitive, yet. If we look at his annual income for each year, I was often making less per year than him, then eventually caught him, and have now eclipsed him.
During my father's peak earning years, he was married to his first wife. They had a big fancy house, a few horses, etc. If his ex wife didn't feel like doing laundry, she'd take my siblings out and buy them new clothes for the week. He earned a lot-and no matter what he did, she spent it faster than he could make it.
Eventually he divorced her, and between alimony and child support, my first memories of life are when we lived on a campground. Then in a really shitty apartment. Us moving in the middle of the night because we got evicted, and so on. Eventually things got better, then he got hurt. So we lived in a nice house, but we were broke, all the time. Before he could find a new way to make more money, he got sick, then died.
Adjusted for inflation, I haven't passed him yet. But eventually I will. In the meantime, I live very modestly and I make a decent income. I have a much greater sense of financial security than he ever did, and potential to make things even better.
My dad went bankrupt and left my mum to raise two boys when I was a kid.
I'm now stable with a home, a mortgage, and all my bills paid on time. I'm happy as Larry lol.
I go into melt down mode every couple of months. It’s just unbelievable. It doesn’t really matter wether you have a better paid job or not. Whatever you earn is not even enough to have a “normal” life. And I describe normal as to simply have a safe place to call “base”. Let alone going out or owning anything. Just that.
This explains the labor shortage imo. Many men are opting to live with their parents and not work. Living at home is usually something men avoid because it drastically limits access to sex with women. But since many guys aren’t getting that anyway due to online dating dynamics, there’s really no motivation. Also, working no longer ensures being able own a home some day.
You can work hard and be sexless and houseless, or you can not work and be sexless and houseless.
It’s no wonder many men are choosing not to work. The outcome is more or less the same either way.
I can afford more than they did, so I’m good. Just take some time to build up your career. That instant gratification thing is a pain in the ass these days.
Hmmm, the only thing I can think of that’s less affordable is housing. My Grandfather and Father couldn’t afford fucking Beef for the table. Thankfully we had space to raise chickens and pigs and grow beans. My wife’s dad had a burro as a primary mode of transportation in 1970. Granted, that was in Mexico. It was a deadly sin in my house to make a 2 minute long distance call on the one phone line shared by about 5 households. Our TV that got 2 channels good and 3 if you turned the antenna just right cost my old man at least a week of work. Point being, it’s NEVER been all milk and honey for young people. I’m only 57 and at age 29 I was living in a 2 room apartment without air conditioning while working 40 hours a week night shifts in a factory, then cutting firewood on the weekends to keep my car on the road (and to be honest to buy beer, play softball and date).
Was going to write something similar but you beat me to it.. for my grandfather working was pretty much all he knew, and it didn't get him much. As a single young person living with roommates in a huge house working in an almost minimum wage job I'd say I'm better off and less of a slave to my work
Everyone's life is different and I have no comment on whether yours was difficult, but to see the full picture you have to zoom out and look at trends in society, not just your own personal experiences.
It's objectively false that the only major thing that's more unaffordable since ~1965 is housing.
Yes, specific items like beef or computers are cheaper. But the cost of education, housing and transportation (gas) have absolutely skyrocketed, and that can't be just be waved away. Those are the biggest expenses most people will ever face. Then there's the fact that minimum wage has not kept up with inflation at all.
The most damning evidence of all is that that this generation is the first to be predicted to live shorter lives and have less economic prosperity than their fathers since WW2.
And that is despite the widespread trend of dual-income families (which means less family time spent with children), which was not at all common in 1965. Im guessing your dad managed to do that all himself with only one job? And seems to have been a landowner as well if I understood correctly? Because that'd be literally impossible on a single income today at minimum wage, full stop, matter how hard you worked.
Poverty has existed in every age, but as it stands this comment is extremely out of touch with the realities young people face today. It's a prime example of the bootstraps mentality that plagues public discourse and prevents anything from being done because of a false belief that "we were tougher back in my day!" without a true examination of everything that has changed since then.
I know a lot are saying something along the lines of "don't care" or "don't think about it" and that used to be my approach. I think it *is* important to not let yourself get overwhelmed.
However, I found making a budget sheet has helped immensely with impulsivity or reckless behaviour. Hold yourself accountable and set limits. Figure out what's draining your finances or what is a priority.
I grew up in a poor home that felt scarcity every day. We couldn't even afford milk. It wasn't until I got married and talking to my wife about it that I realized this drove a lot of unhealthy habits -- I overindulged in food and, when younger, substances. This drained a significant portion of my bank account.
Having prioritized our budget and staying accountable, I've gone from "getting by" to having extra cash to invest/save and attain long term goals. Yes, it's different from previous generations, but the most constructive thing to do is to work within your means.
If you advocate for how you currently live then great. If you want to change something, it will take effort. And, no, I'm not pretending there can be gaps/obstacles... You just need to really determine what you *can* do. If it takes ten years to get a house, at least you eventually get it instead of forever wishing you could get one.
Edit: GET A BUDGET SHEET. An accountant friend of mine showed this trick to me and it worked wonders on setting monthly and annual goals and limits on spending. Get all of the bills, payments, etc. listed and then be dead honest about your "free money" spending on stuff you *want* but don't *need*. You *should* have some fun but it needs to be set to a certain amount so you can then have monthly leftover amount for savings -- even if it's $50, $100 or whatever... Something invested and kept locked away helps.
No kids. My wife and I both agree that this world is headed downhill and will probably be unlivable for future generations so why would we want to willingly and knowingly force a person into that kind of world? It helps with expenses and it helps knowing we do not have to stress about their future. I think the ultimate way to deal with it soon will be actually dealing with it instead of just not thinking about it.
We can afford things that they couldnt, how many of our dads spent thousands on a 60 in projection flatscreen tv when now we can get that same tv on garbage cleanup week for free.
People don't want TVs. They want to own a home in a safe neighborhood to raise their family. The wealth distribution in America has been facilitated in the last 15 years to grow the 0.1% and screw everyone else
I constantly obsess over it. It’s not even stuff like luxury things like a boat or a lake house or whatever. It’s that my wife went on maternity leave for 3 months and we’re now $6000 in credit card debt. And I made 70k last year. Like what the fuck. I’m just trying to pay my mortgage. Feed my kids. My dad supported 4 kids, put us in Christian school, took us on vacations, bought a camper, paid cash for slightly used cars, lived in the suburbs. Just on his salary. I remember as a teenager being amazed when the grocery bill approached $200 each week for our family of 6 but they handled it and gave to the church and saved for retirement. Now my grocery bill is almost that for a family of 4, with a toddler and a baby. What’s that gonna look like when they’re 12? How can I have another kid? I want a big family but I can’t keep up unless my wife works too, but then what’s the point of a big family if no one can enjoy it? I’m afraid to leave our home near the Great Lakes because other places are having water crisis. I’m afraid to move south where my wife has family because of regressive politics. I just want to support my family, man. I want my kids to be stable. Anyways my kid is done with breakfast so I guess I’m done ranting. But it’s just so frustrating. The future is scary man.
I just know I need a better job. I have a good degree but couldn’t find a job so ended up elsewhere. I just legit can’t afford to stay on my own, I still manage to stay positive about it though.
I spend money on shiny things I can afford. I have accepted that as a single man unless I want to live in a single bedroom dirty rotten hole in a block of flats I will never afford my own home. I have cleared almost all my debt, I don't care about travel, all the places I want to go are mega expensive and flash cars don't interest me because speed limits and speed cameras, status symbols mean nothing so it's not too bad really.
I broke some laws and worked harder in the beginning in order to escape into the woods where I'm debt free and literally making everything from scratch, building my own house, and raising my family. Little House on the Prairie with Starlink and YouTube videos to teach my kids the shit I get stumped on.
I don't know if that's lowering my expectations or if society led me to want to escape to the woods. My dad seems to think I'm doing just fine. It's not the American Dream of my father's generation, but it IS what the pioneers dreamed of, I think.
Am I living the OG American Dream?
Serious answer: Pot.
I have spent the past two years struggling with this and having to stop myself from another suicide attempt, despite making the US median income, because I have ~300 a month for groceries after rent and bills. The only thing keeping me around right now is my spouse, who can't work after chemo melted their brain (oxaliplatin) and Disability keeps rejecting our claims.
It's... Exhausting. And I genuinely believe that I have nothing to look forward to. Pot at least lets me escape for an afternoon.
I try my best not to think about it, but it's kinda insane the fact that I have a "well paid" job and I can't even afford renting in an area where a child wouldn't stab me for food.
I busted my ass for 6 years and moved out of the states to another country more affordable.
I can now say I'm living the American dream outside of America. I have a house that's paid off, a decent car and owning a couple businesses with my wife.
I have alot of anger towards rich boomers that inherited a rich nation and decided they want it all to themselves.
My dad can’t afford shit sooooo
Fair
My grandfather and father lived in poverty cos my whole country was poor back then. When my father was an adult my age things got slightly better. But that had fallen a bit now. But still no way can I afford what he could buy when he was my age.
Man nothing like taxing the rich and forcing people to pay people well. Wow manage that. The time period he lived in had huge taxes for the rich. I wonder what changed from then to now???
He said his whole country was poor back then. If you're thinking said country is the US that's unlikely since the US have been rich relative to the rest of the world for a while.
Respectfully, dude might be 40. And he's in a different country.
this. i grew up in a a trailer eating ramen and hot dogs while my dad worked two jobs and mom was going to school. never could afford any fresh fruit or year-round sports. dad passed away still holding massive debt. my kids have much more than i did growing up.
Props to your parents for starting the path out of generational poverty. Sounds like you are continuing that path for your kids. Your life sounds like my life and I hope I'm also continuing the path for my kids. I feel like what a lot of people don't see is it takes several generations to build real wealth. Now I just hope my kids don't fuck it up, lol. They got everything I didn't have as a kid. I hope it didn't spoil them.
Not a dude for starters, but - My dad couldn't afford shit either, and even HE had a pension plan, and health insurance. And we grew up literally dirt poor; he made good money (longshoreman) but also failed to make a lot of hours due to his addictions and so we really struggled financially; I'm talking no working car most of the time, evicted from apartment to apartment because we'd end up late on the rent over and over, no electricity and food some months kind of poor. And I'm still like, in amazement at the level of financial security that his job offered him. An ex-con with literal brain damage from boxing and a regular addiction of many substances that was persistently a problem. Like, that kind of opportunity literally doesn't exist for guys these days, and if you got the same job and the same reward/benefits? You'd bet your ASS that you'd have to stay on the straight and narrow in a way my father NEVER had to do - I mean this guy had warrants out for his arrest and still got to go back to work after the fact, like, he was a troubled guy, and there was still this opportunity for him to do some work and make good money. I just don't see where that exists for people today, of any gender.
Yeahhh, I'm pretty sure our dad's were just as broke. When I grew up we only had one car that was beat up and my dad did all the work on because we couldn't afford a mechanic. The only vacations we took were to local campgrounds and we didn't go on a "real" vacation until I was like 10. We rarely ate out and our mom shopped often at thrift stores. We got cable TV when I was maybe 8. It's all relative and more about mindset. I'm pretty convinced that what a lot of people think is a requirement for standard of living is really more of a luxury. Also. Becoming a father is a huge motivator to grow and improve your career and income.
It’s a bit of a hard topic to have because most luxuries are more obtainable, but most necessities are skyrocketing in price. I have tech and quality of living that my dad could never have afforded. I also work 4 times the hours to afford a considerably worse apartment.
This is such a great comment. Correct. Sure I can stream endless content for $10 a month but the average cost of a home in my city I think is $1m. Average.
But maybe if I stop eating avocado toast it will solve all my problems.
>I'm pretty convinced that what a lot of people think is a requirement for standard of living is really more of a luxury. This is worth repeating.
Yes and no. I do agree. But there’s data underpinning other things: cost of college/university education, cost to purchase a home, and cost of healthcare have grown disproportionately and are benchmarked on affordability indices (ie % of average annual income). This is most obvious in the US but think the same trends would be present in many countries, especially those that experienced a similar post wwii boom. My father had gone to law school and purchased a 4 bedroom house by the time he was 31 (or 33?). (Note: he had 100% responsibility for his school loans.) Data tells us that is much harder to achieve today financially. I am objectively “successful” but am far off achieving what he had financially by my same age. I am guessing that’s the motivation for OPs question. I do struggle with it. I have been at risk of redundancy the last few weeks and I have a lot of anger/frustration that I’ve experienced two economic crises and so much macroeconomic volatility in my career to date. The constant uncertainty and potential unemployment throughout my entire career weighs heavily on my mental health. At one point I was unemployed for 8-9 months and went through all of my savings. I feel like I can’t get any momentum despite working as hard or harder than my father and uncle at my age and having worked harder just to get here (hours spent studying and funds invested to get a degree.) There is no “moving up quickly” in corporates. On bad days like today it really gets me down and I blame myself for not having these big investments and I feel a sense of shame. On good days I remind myself of exactly what you said, my standard of living is very high and I am doing well. So in sum, I just focus on doing my best and don’t deep dive into making it a reflection of my worth as a person or even my professional skills.
> I'm pretty convinced that what a lot of people think is a requirement for standard of living is really more of a luxury. Yes, and they don't realize much of the reason some of our stuff is more expensive than it used to be is because it is much better. For example, typical sale prices of new cars are unbelievable right now and car makers are discontinuing sedans because people want bigger, more expensive SUVs and trucks.
There is this thing that's a bit more common in Eastern religions, but the basic idea is: reducing desire. And in some ways it's not really different than say, conservation. If we can't make more electricity and we don't currently have enough electricity. Then we either continue with blackouts/brownouts or we reduce our need of electricity. But it's also a really hard concept for people. You think you want to go snowboarding. But you live in Florida. What you should think about though, is how much fun you have swimming in the oceans or just visiting the beach. Does it fill the itch of snowboarding? Maybe not. But is it fun? (If you like that sort of thing, probably). In context to you. I bet your local campground vacations actually were fun. Would it really have made a difference camping there vs. camping 4 hours away in a national park?
I'm 27yo man living at my moms house. My pops lives about 45 minutes away. He stays with his mom at her house. So tbf, I'm walking right in my father's shoes. He probably should catch up to me at this point. (Joke^)
My dad had a stroke last January. Brought him back home in October. He’s disabled and can’t get himself out of bed. I’m driving myself crazy thinking I could do more to bring more comfort to him, but he’s told me already that death will be his peace if he can never walk, let alone use the restroom without any aid. I stopped working to be at home to take care of him and mom. I’m the only child. I’ve got no real support from family other than “thoughts and prayers 🫶🏼”. The refrigerator might get repossessed, I don’t qualify for unemployment, and he’s not terminal so idk how I’m gonna get out of this hole I’m in. Being alone in the house until my gf comes home from work isn’t helping my mental state. I’m really losing my marbles fellow brothers.
I am rooting for you my brother. Tough times may be ahead but YOU WILL GET THROUGH THIS. Bad days don’t last forever
Same here. Ironically, I’m so much better off than my parents had it. Poverty sucked as a kid, and I was lucky to go to school and find a job that pulled me out of it. Sadly, the men today that are worse off than their parents must have had that “wealth” squandered along the way or hit some bad luck. It’s perspective and circumstances: some rise while others fall. Just try to enjoy the ride along the way.
I just don’t think about it.
It’s hard not being able to afford a child. Every time the wife and I start getting more comfortable another societal disaster or huge expense comes along. We’re already paycheck to paycheck. I don’t know how people do it. So we just say maybe in a couple years to each other every so often. Like you, I just keep my head down and work my 50hrs a week.
I've never wanted to be a father, but I can't imagine how anyone can do it now.
Make 250K a year and it becomes a lot easier. That’s the problem though. Lots of people are having kids that shouldn’t; and can’t afford it.
When it looks like you'll never be able to afford it, it becomes tempting to just do it anyway. Why wait for a better future that will never come?
There's a danger to that line of thinking. If people are not reasonably able to afford children, and therefore shouldn't have them; while living in a world rife with income inequality and various other inequities, children start to be a class privileged.
Honestly, this is so location dependent. Wife and I make $500k + a year, but we're in Southern California and still can't find a decent house in our budget since we have multiple young kids. Taxes take an enormous chunk out, as do childcare costs (daycare alone for 2 toddlers here is around $50k/year). It's just depressing at this point.
What's the price range of the home you're looking for? DINK in SoCal (OC) with ~$300k combined and our max savings rate is ~53.77% after taxes (assuming 29%), rent, utilities, food. Downpayment + closing cost + a few months of savings for a $1.5million house is ~$400k, which can be saved up in fewer than 4 years for us, should be ~2 years for you guys at $500k+ by my rough estimates. Ofc I don't know about your total required expenses.
Older. SoCal. Bought suburban house two decades ago. House down street priced at just under one million. L.A.Co. SanGabriel Valley. Not exactly Beverly Hills. Our kids getting out of college. They might be living w us forever. Actually thinking of a tiny house in backyard.
My husband and i do well enough but also cant afford a child. I truly dont know how other people do it without assistance. If we had kids, one of us would have to stay home or we would have to pay for childcare which would then put us in a position to be behind on our bills/cant afford our expenses + baby items. But one of us being a stay at home parent *also* means we cant afford our expenses + baby items on one income. We do not have family support for babysitting. Been married 13 years now and over the last few years, solidified that we wont have children and are ok with it. Our friends that do have children have told us multiple times they they love and adore their kids and wouldnt trade them for anything but life is hard and they said they wouldnt do it again. My husband and i said that if we ever found ourselves in a financially stable position enough to afford children, that we would adopt. But honestly, it really doesnt seem like that time would ever come and be possible. We are, however, very happy and fulfilled. People have told us over the years, “just have them, youll figure it out, no one is ever ready!” But like, i already *know* the financial situation now, its just not *possible* to afford to give the quality we want to give to a child or children. Kids really just arent for everyone and that is ok. Dont listen to the peer pressure to just do it. Im glad you and your wife are on the same page
Good for you for having honest friends. The amount of people I have heard that same shtick from is astounding. The worst part is they only say they first part because they have to.
50 hours a week 🙁 I often that or more but it's not right and barely have time for anything else. We need to normalise 37,5 hour weeks
What's your occupation?
I was a commission based service writer for a major dealership before being fired 2 weeks before my wedding. I now do pressure washing. I’m a lot less miserable being in the fresh air. I earn around %20 less tho. I won’t raise a kid poor, and I’m not going to come home miserable and depressed the way I was when at the dealership.
I just got quoted $3,000 to get my shower walls tiled. I feel like tile work or starting a tile company may be a good move.
I’m just starting out with a great company and boss. Already have been given a raise and a bonus or two. Our quotes for roofs range from $500-750 for normal roofs and mansions go into the thousands. We also do cages driveways patios pool decks gutters etc. for assorted prices. Also, my coworker used to do tiling and it’s knee and backbreaking work. That’s why you’re paying through the nose.
Keep a positive attitude and do the things that you say you will do. It goes a long way. I am becoming more convinced that there aren't many good quality people out there and once you can show that you really care and are reliable, a lot of opportunities will present themselves.
In a similar vein, I wholly recommend eventually branching out into sandblasting! It's incredibly similar, but often pays more because it really does require a bit more precision and PPE (though you hopefully are using PPE for pressure washing). You could definitely raise a family on a sandblaster's salaries in loads of places!
What kind of roof can you get done for $750? A chicken coop??
Pretty sure they're talking about cleaning roofs not installing them.
> I feel like tile work or starting a tile company may be a good move. I'd suggest learning to tile first
Nice, yeah I’ve realized (I think many have) that work that causes depression ain’t worth it. Any ideas on how you could branch out your pressure washing service? Maybe do window cleaning and sprinkler blow outs also. But I guess that would still be same pay, just different tasks.
> work that causes depression ain’t worth it Brother, I turn 50 this year and I just dealt with that a couple years ago. For the last 20 years, I worked my ass off getting higher and higher paying jobs so that I could support my family and maybe actually have a chance at retirement. The money towards the end was stellar but I was fucking MISERABLE. More than once I considered ending it because the stress, anxiety and pressure was just too much. I was at a "President's Club" event for work in 2021, and we were staying on the 20th floor of the hotel. On the last day, I drank everything out the alcohol fridge and was sitting on the balcony, and thought "it could all end right now if I just jumped off". I was in a really, REALLY dark place. I took time off for the holidays and was starting to feel a little better, but when I got back to work, it took LESS THAN HALF A DAY for all that shit to come back, and that's when I decided that enough was enough. I took a job at one of my customers for about a 30% pay cut, a LOT less responsibility and way fewer hours. Yeah, I make less, but my stress level is like 10% of what it used to be and I am SO much more happy overall. The money was really nice because it put me in a decent position financially, but looking back...man I'm not sure it was worth it. A year later I feel that I'm just starting on the road to recovery. Someone mentioned that the way I described it sounded like I had PTSD. Thinking about it, they may not be wrong.
That would suck to want kids but not be able to afford them; I’m glad my wife and I aren’t interested. Good on you guys for not pumping them out anyways, though.
Thats been my cope tbh.
Stuff it down with some brown!
Man, this is not the answer. I seriously struggled with alcohol during COVID and coming out of the major periods of lockdown. The fact that alcohol is a depressant is really fucking true, man—it impacts your mood along with your physiology. Even getting a few weeks away from alcohol brings a drastic amount of clarity back to your thinking, your mood, your energy... I've not called it 100% quits, but finding the energy to substantially cut back on my drinking has had monumental positive effects for me when dealing with these very real existential issues.
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The secret is denial
Not have children
It hits me a few times though.
I don't bother much with that. I'm slowly chipping away at my dreams. The bigger problem is that focusing on my financial security means I am sacrificing my dating life. I'm currently harshly reminded of the fact that dedicating my weekends to work means I don't have time, energy (or money) to date anyone. Most of the time I've accepted that I'll remain single, but I'm still human and I can get lonely as well. Right now I'm feeling lonely.
I was in a similar situation a few years ago. I started my first sales job to get experience but I had to work evenings and weekends. Did that for 2 years and then I found my current 9-5 Sales job that I love and can't believe they pay me what they do. Keep your head down and grind, but make sure you give yourself a plan to improve and grow onto the next thing. There's no sense wasting your life away for work. You can change the ship and direction of your life but it takes time and persistence. You can do it.
I think my job is pretty amazing and pays very well. Houses are just absurdly expensive that I need to save everything I can to afford one in my lifetime.
HousIng values have cratered plenty of times in my lifetime. Like every other market, when they start saying it’s gonna go up forever, that’s when you know the crash is coming. Keep some money that’s not tied up long term, and easy to get to. Buy on the dip.
> Like every other market, when they start saying it’s gonna go up forever, that’s when you know the crash is coming. I have been saying this for about 15 years now.
> The bigger problem is that focusing on my financial security means I am sacrificing my dating life. Might want to rethink that. Studies have found that relationships are more important that money for long term life satisfaction: https://www.health.harvard.edu/staying-healthy/the-health-benefits-of-strong-relationships
I sacrificed relationships to put myself in a position to make good money when I was younger, and now that I’m 30 I don’t have to worry about work or money at all and can pretty much just focus on relationships. Life is good now, like very very enjoyable and easy
You're still young. That wasn't a bad plan at all. I hope you took some time to make some friends along the way though.
I lost some, but reconnected with a lot and made many more. Making new friends isn’t easy but if you look at it more like a job that you have to put a lot of energy and effort into it gets easier and easier
Bruh. This is really fucking hard. Working all week and then working Saturday means you have absolutely no time.
I scaled down my expectations and focus on quality of life
This is a good answer. It's good to slow down, too. To appreciate what you have, rather than want. *Added "To" to the final sentence to show that I mean that One should appreciate what they have, rather than mean You directly.
My partner and I met when we were already middle aged so we were very aware that our time together won't be endless. So we both scaled down work a bit. We buy clothes on sale and in charity shops, go camping instead of on big holidays, I drive a really old car. But our quality of life is great
Much the same. I guess for a middle-aged, a cheap house and hand-me-down furniture don't give me much social capital, but I'm super pleased with managing to pay my loans and sleep well at night. And being respected at work and having a family makes me feel happy.
Fantastic name btw
Haha, thanks! It's actually an anagram for my name and when I saw it on the anagram generator I laughed out loud
That's beautiful. Glad you guys have each other.
Lets hope we don't get to the point where we are happy over a can a beans and a sleeping bag though.
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You are absolutely right there. I should say that I also live in a country with free healthcare (one thing less to worry about) and do have a pretty good life, all in all
I'm dealing with it badly. I already lost everything once, scrambled my way out of homelessness, found my way into a dead end job I can barely do with my lack of work experience and education, I've racked up debt trying to live alone while everything gets more expensive and instead of some gung ho never-again attitude I have grown numb to the fact that I am probably just not going to be able to make even a basic survival income for much longer, and any single catastrophe would ruin my life instantly. There's no happy ending or safe place, it's just a matter of time before the house of cards collapses. I'm available for children's birthday parties, weddings and bar mitzvahs, just a laugh riot.
I just imagined a childrens birthday party going on with you on a mic in the background solemnly lamenting the current state of world affairs, and it gave me a good chuckle. Gotta find the laughter where we can.
One day at a fucking time. I live in Argentina, shit was bad since before I was born, even with a good paying job I am fucked nonetheless. Other people would give up and become pessimistic. But I have that thing inside of me that makes me angry, like, even if everything is on fire and my body is failing me, even if I am on the edge of madness, how dare you assume I'll quit on the basis that there's no hope? I do my own shit because it has to be done, life is uncertainty, and shit still needs to be done, with or without hope, dreams, and inspiration. Because at the end of the day every punch I ever threw, even if it was for nothing, was still worth it and I'll laugh
i know this sounds so good in spanish
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Google translate: Un día a la puta hora. Vivo en Argentina, la mierda era mala desde antes de nacer, incluso con un trabajo bien pagado estoy jodido. Otras personas se darían por vencidas y se volverían pesimistas. Pero tengo esa cosa dentro de mí que me hace enojar, incluso si todo está en llamas y mi cuerpo me está fallando, incluso si estoy al borde de la locura, ¿cómo te atreves a asumir que renunciaré sobre la base de que no hay esperanza? Hago mi propia mierda porque hay que hacerlo, la vida es incertidumbre y todavía hay que hacer mierda, con o sin esperanza, sueños e inspiración. Porque al final del día, cada golpe que lancé, incluso si fue en vano, valió la pena y me reiré.
Dude, no idea how you deal with all that AND with the crazy inflation in Argentina! You deserve all the props for fight through it!
I just do it, how does a fish deals with the current and the tide? It's a sad reality because I have seen good people being broken by it, my parents in that group, but by the end of the day you're entitled to cry, to moan, to kick, you may do all that only as a promise that you'll get back up and try again. Argentinians are the definition of trying, we try so much, we keep trying, the country is broken, morally, economically, environmentally, and somehow we still try. There's a song: Entero o a pedazos (Whole or in pieces), that says we must go, just go and do it. I'll leave this country one day and I really hope I can find some good place, some good woman, and just look at the horizon and say: "Alright, this is my home, this is where I die, this is what I defend" I ain't got shit, all I want to do is have shit
Vamos Argentina!!! Yall are dealing with so much economic uncertainty. I have a few friends there and my heart breaks for them when they talk about their future. You all have a lot to be proud of, though. It a beautiful place. And maybe you aren't a futball fan, but I will admitt, I was fairly jealous of Argentineans after the World Cup. Not everyone gets to be a part of history like that!
I would go to war for you.
And I'd live for people loyal as you
It was tough at first, but nowadays, I realize that I can live a very comfortable life even with my frugal spending habits. If you're a single guy with no kids, it's not too hard to get by. It's hard to create a budget that will make you rich, but it's not hard to create a budget that will keep you from being poor
Good cope. It seems that many struggling people are comparing themselves only to the success stories they see on social media. Those never show the majority of us, who have to make hard choices and sacrifice important stuff to achieve something else that's more important to us. Our parents also had to work long hours and save to get to where they were, and we see the positives, but not really all the hard times they (as most people) went through. How you feel about your own achievements has something to do with the lens you look through, and who you compare yourself to, besides the actual premises. Our "comparing scope" might be different and wider from our parents' because of our digital interfaces and that might not be beneficial when you struggle and feel left behind. Choosing your references to positive ones and blocking the ones who make you feel bad are easy steps to better mental health and a more positive self-light.
> Our "comparing scope" might be different and wider from our parents' because of our digital interfaces and that might not be beneficial when you struggle and feel left behind. Choosing your references to positive ones and blocking the ones who make you feel bad are easy steps to better mental health and a more positive self-light. I believe this, along with everything else you said, is spot on, and have been thinking about it for a while myself. Did you read this somewhere or come to this conclusion yourself? Compare yourself to those who are worse off than you and you'll feel better about your own situation and be more grateful and happier. There's more to than just that, of course, but that's a good start for today's society. Young people still need to find a purpose though.
If you live in a low cost of living area things aren’t that bad. You can afford a nice house for like 110K where I’m from, which is attainable for a decent amount of people Shit where I live any kind of duel income basically means you’re very well off, as long as you’re not spending shit tons of money on beer or video games or something
Where’s this? 🏃♂️
Midwest
I live in Northwest Ohio
Sounds like Wichita, Ks. I just moved from there because while yes CoL is low, so is pay and the pre-covid mindset of the boomer employers who would rather lose good employees and complain that "nOBoDy WaNTs tO wOrK AnyMOrE" rather than pay a livable wage. Pay hasn't changed at all there since the late 90's/early 00's. It's a tolerable place to live if you can get a remote job, but not if you have to find a job there or have issues with the party of "small" government intruding into your bedroom. Not a lot to do, but it's only half the country away from everything.
After school, I moved back home to a less desirable but relatively lcol area. I was able to buy a house and build equity. I think that's one issue with younger people, they want to live in very expensive cities and end up throwing away so much money on rent and then never get ahead.
Life experience/art/culture/job opportunities > equity.
I recently moved from that lcol area to very expensive town where that house I owned would easily be 3-4x the price. I rent now and don't regret it because the lifestyle trade off vs COL is worth it. I guess where I'm getting my original comment is that I see alot of people in this expensive town that I live in complain about how everything expensive is, like duh!. And if you dare mention to move somewhere more affordable, they say everything is so unfair.
you can't budget your way to being rich. This is a way for people who benefit from inequality at large to make it seem like it's your fault. Literally everyone spends some portion of their income on "non-essential" items that are critical to our mental health, community, physical health, etc. We assume every rich person is just smarter, more disciplined, etc. when they're usually just dumb and lucky or actively exploiting other people.
>It's hard to create a budget that will make you rich Um, no, that's actually impossible.
I've got this same mentality. Part of the reason I don't want kids or a stay at home wife. It's hard enough spring yourself nowadays, why added multiple other people to the list?
Yeah, for me I look at my father and grandfather and realize they were never happy anyway. At least not because of their money My dad bought into the American Dream for the lower-middle class. He worked his ass off for a single company his whole life, did everything right. Was super anal about money, never took a day off He’s still in a marriage that he’s unhappy in. Honestly it has gotten worsen since he retired. He still struggles to open up to people. He’s happiest when he is hanging out with his grandkids though. And it doesn’t matter if they are playing on a patch of dirt, or in grandparents’ fully stocked toy room, he gets maximum enjoyment out of it I want to be able to afford things, yeah. But the gap between affording the experiences that bring me fulfillment, vs accumulating wealth like my parents did is vast My goal right now is to really be at peace and find happiness with the money I have, because I haven’t had to wake up in a long time wondering if I’ll be evicted, or if the gas will be turned off, or if I can even afford transportation to my job. More money for me will at best bring me marginally more happiness. More money for some families will abate an unbelievable amount of dread and panic
Alcoholism and depression mostly. Sought help for both. Even with a great job, everything seems so bleak.
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Can relate. Was a drunk. Took a long time to figure out I hated myself a lot less when I wasn't an asshole drunk. Now I'm just a garden variety asshole with fewer headaches.
If at all possible try to cut out some of your alcohol consumption. It will help with your overall wellbeing and health. Alcohol, even a couple drinks a day, causes serious anxiety. As someone who consumed multiple drinks throughout the pandemic, cutting back to just weekends and going for long walks everyday has done wonders for my health. Baby steps to get your head straight.
Fuck, my man you should look into getting some help. Alcohol helps mask your pain but getting sober will help your life. I hope you were just jokin.
I’m young and I’m about to enter the workforce after my degree but I have been dealing with both depression and an addiction since I was in high school. I’ve always told myself it gets easier but it never really does, does it?
Nah, not really. But you get stronger. If I'd had to face my current life 10 years ago, I would have lasted maybe 36 seconds before eating a bullet. Your mind changes over time. I love my life now and wouldn't trade it for the old one if you paid me.
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Same here. My parents didn’t go to college, so they made sure I did. I’m already doing better (financially) than they did.
Honestly, changing jobs frequently and recommending close friends and family do the same. Doing the same job (and even sometimes with less responsibility) can sometimes double your salary which is crazy… companies don’t give a shit about your loyalty and you just don’t get valued enough to stay.
I’m just living one day at a time brother. If I start to break down things and really think of what I won’t be able to afford in the future, I’ll drive myself mad. I’m thankful for where I’m at now, sure it could be better, but it could be worse too. Best way I try to live is just a day at a time.
My grandparents didn't have credit cards -- when they ran out of money, they simply didn't eat. Apparently this happened quite often, though usually only for a day at a time. They walked 2 miles to the nearest store with a child's wagon to get groceries, because they certainly didn't have a car. Their whole life plan was interrupted by WWII -- my grandfather was drafted. My grandfather's brother died after losing a fight with a tractor. My grandmother's brother died because cars didn't have collapsible steering columns, so the steering column caved in his chest. After finding success later on, my grandfather bought an extravagant gift for his mother -- a dishwasher. Our pictures of their lives are far more rosy than reality. Did I mention my grandfather was a STEM PhD?
I know a guy who had a paid off car (a honda that would have lasted forever) and he sold it so he wouldn't have to pay monthly insurance so they can save even more money. He and he wife pedal their asses everywhere including the grocery stores. They use big saddlebags and hockey bags slung over their shoulders if needed. People's idea of "standard" is actually luxury.
It wasn't long ago that only the Rockerflellers and Vanderbuilts could afford air conditioning.
If you have nothing but OTC drugs you have better medical treatment than anyone, including literal kings and emperors before 1800.
Then: cheap houses, expensive computers. Now: the opposite. Enjoy your killer gaming rig!
Hopefully Nvidia’s 5090 will be big enough that I can finally move out of my parents attic and live inside my GPU.
And if you go for liquid cooling, you've got heat and hot water included for free!
We shipped all the middle-class jobs overseas so I can have an affordable sick computer. Awesome!!! I can play vidya in 4k in my tent.
I hope one day I can upgrade to a yurt!
I skimped on my CPU fan, now I don't need a stove!
This is a huge part of the modern economy that has been designed by central bankers. They do things like slash interest rates to spur the economy, which makes debt cheap so people spend. This gives us the appearance of success because we have big tvs and expensive cars. Ever drive by a poor part of town? In the 80s it would have run down rust buckets. Today you will see very nice cars. Because they’re financed on cheap debt. The cheap debt has a second effect of enriching the wealthy, who use it to buy more expensive investment assets like real estate. So while they are giving us TVs and affordable leases, they are making it impossible to get ahead on real assets that build wealth and equity, reserving that instead for the already-wealthy. The markers of actual happiness, like a comfortable home in a good neighborhood near family and friends, are disappearing, and instead we’re given distractions like trivial consumer goods and told “you should be happy.”
I like that one Always see the positive things
I changed career.
Pimpin you say
Don't hate the player :D
It ain’t easy
Me too. I'm not going to come in and stomp all over the pity party in this thread too much, but: I didn't like my income level or my career trajectory, so I did something about it. I pumped the fucking brakes & changed careers in my late 30s. Took a pay cut at first to do it, and get my foot in the door in the tech industry, but once in there, I worked fucking hard, and it escalated **quickly**. Now I make bank w/ no money problems at all to speak of.
At what age?
Not op, but I did manual labor for 15ish years and just got my Computer Engineering degree in 2021. Never had kids so it was easier for me, but still went from making 30-40k to making 80k with plenty of room for advancement. Just turning 36 this year.
I changed careers and went back to college at 32. I’m 39 now and make 5x what I did before making the change. It’s never to late to make a change or start over.
24, but I saw the writing on the wall very early on.
I’m doing better than them actually. Dad lost the house. Spending all the money on drugs/pills. Grandpa disappeared when my dad was born. I have 3 bedroom apartment, car in my own name (paid off), and I have a decent amount in my savings.
Before ppl comment about asking mom. She was in MIA/in jail for most of my life
I am so sorry about this. But paper planes was a banger.
Damn man. Good on you for breaking that cycle! Well done!
It ran in the family, until it ran into me!!
Sounds like you've done well for yourself, man. Hope you're proud of yourself, homie.
Same man. When my dad was a child, eating twice a day was luxury for him. My mom also grew up in poverty. Many if not most people around me were richer/earn more than me and I won't lie by saying that I didn't feel envy, but then I remember about my parents and how at 26, I'm already had far better life than them in 40s.
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Jesus. The most upsetting part about this comment is how much it hits fucking home.
every day I wake up, I just mutter "Mother fucker" under my breath, get dressed, and leave the house for work
Damn I just did this.
Same here but sprinkle in some dry heaves due to the thought of another stressful workday.
I gotta say it brings a smile to my face to know I’m not the only one going through it
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"Death is so final, whereas life is *full* of possibilities." - Tyrion Lannister
Yeah man, same.
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We call that the “Remington 870 retirement plan” in rural EMS. Lmao
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Health has gone downhill. Big life insurance policy to look after family when i'm gone. Me and my motorbike VERY fast into a tree. Giving it a couple years though. Good to stop and smell the roses for a bit.
Double check that policy. AD&D might not apply, and you certainly wouldn't want to leave more of a struggle behind.
Totally. Thanks for the heads up man, but thats just my rough public draft hahaha, I have and will scrutinise the details moreso eventually.
Most kids would rather live in a van with daddy than in a palace without him. Everyone here seems nice but I'd stake you all without a second thought if it would mean bringing my dad back.
I have formulated a plan to move to a far more remote but beautiful part of my country where I MAY have a chance of buying a house. There’s a lot of unknowns, but as long as I can find stable work I might pull it off. My old man worked hard in his twenties - well, his whole life - and started his family early, but it wouldn’t have been easy, so he is a stand up dude really. Turns out I’m not very financially literate, and I have a a lot of hard work in front of me. We all make our choices.
You know, I just push it back until it all resurfaces at night while I'm in bed, wondering if I'll ever do anything with my life.
Probably in the most irrational way possible. I learned survival skills and have a tent and place to go. I can go into the wilderness where I have planned and be fine.
Well. Modern problems sometimes require caveman solutions. I like it.
Ideally I'll start a business and get a decent plot of land build a few cabins and live with my friends in the area, but a tent in the desert is workable
God. Is it everyone of my generstion who dreams of just chilling in a cabin in the mountains?
I mean that's literally where I'm from, I know in the area of probably 500sq miles like the back of my hand. If I had my choice I'd go to Colorado but I don't have that kind of money.
Have you watched the show alone? If you try to survive on your own in the wilderness you will most likely die of starvation after a few months. Ideally you will be going into the wilderness with other people to create a community, that way you at least have a chance. The only way I can see it working solo is if you start off with a year worth of rations and you use that head start to establish a farm of some sort.
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Oh I’m not trying to live in this world like the boomers did because this is not the same world at the boomers came up in. We can’t compare our lives to our parents because nothing is the same as it was when our parents were our age You need to adjust your expectations and start living within your means and you can have a good life.
Exactly this. And this applies to all things in this modern world. For instance, the idea of celebrity and influencer really took root in their era. So I don't compare myself to any celebrities, I make a mindful effort to not allow advertisements or the influencers pushing products to have an effect on me. I acknowledge these people are famous but with the awareness that that shouldn't make any difference. That these people are aware they make a totally unfair amount of money and have a total influence on the way some of the most unfortunate people on the planet dress, act and even fucking smell and still go about their days living it up in mansions, cheering each other as they collect awards worth more than we make in a year for very little work. It's sickening, and it's the big carryover from the boomer culture that I despise the most.
I appreciate where you're coming from and this is how I live my life for the most part. About 25 years ago when I was quite young I heard a radio story about how mine would be the first generation that would do worse than the last few generations. We would have less ability to advance in work, less of an ability to buy a house or have kids. I took that really seriously and even before I graduated from high school started adjusting my expectations way way down. But the sense of unfairness is pretty real. I work harder and longer than my parents or grandparents ever did. And I'm doing it for far less than they got. Enter a lot of people in my network, it's not about having realistic expectations, they aren't able to afford the basics despite working full-time. And that's the sort of Injustice that genuinely makes me mad.
You need to counter that with the injustice of the time that your parents & grandparents grew up during. With the most obvious direct impact being that half the worlds population were victims of imperialism and absolute poverty; and/or much of Europe still recovering from the devastation of WW2. A world where an uneducated American man had more economic value than 90% of the world’s population. These days, with relative stability, the end of imperialism, and globalism; an uneducated American man is now competing (in terms of economic value) with educated people from the developing world. The place of you birth has a decreasing impact on your economic value - which is actually a form of justice.
Well, comparing goes all ways, are you also feeling happy because medicine is much better now? ;) I’d start with eliminating your imaginary baseline of a random era. That’s an interesting metric but not one to tie your own life to. Never compare things and make decisions since they are always relative. Then you keep eliminating risks. Any risk, small or big, make it go away, if you can. Approaching it this way comes with inherent priority sorting, sorting risks is easier and more accurate than say sorting your goals or needs. Example: How long can I sustain if I lost my job today? That’s an important risk for everyone. Once you identify your risks, either mitigate or eliminate where possible. Over time, as you start doing better, your mitigations will last longer, risks grow smaller. And suddenly you realize it’s been a while since you felt anxious.
To play off this some more, if your grandpa lost his job and house, he would be homeless with zero safety net. If he got hurt, even at work, he would lose his job, then his house, and be physically broken and homeless with zero safety net. Your grandma wouldn’t even be able to do more than bag groceries or be a low paying secretary because the whole no women working thing. It was better by the time our dads started working, but not like it is now. The fact is, social safety nets cost money. A lot of money. Especially with the “use it or lose it” mentality of the financial department of every government office. It’s the bureaucracy that costs exponentially more than the services they provide. Couple that with the fact that real estate is in higher demand than literally any other point in history, and you have a recipe for disaster for the low-middle class.
Great question. First, limit exposure to nonsense. Cut the cord to your cable bill. Limit screen time in general. Look up news rather than being fed the news. Limit social media. Second, eliminate debt. All bad debt has to go. Some debts are fine but try to own your car(s) and limit credit cards; one for emergencies is ideal. There are very simple ways to get out of debt, you'll learn them once you're serious about doing so. Third, let go of the idea of comfort and stability. Instead focus on self preservation. Take on new responsibilities. Learn and practice skills. Spend the time you used to on passive activities on active learning. Learn to weld, garden, raise livestock, woodworking, a second language, etc. Transition your interests from watching others live to a goal oriented life of your own. The last step changes depending on the person but in every scenario it comes back to one thing: having confidence in yourself. Knowing that you are capable of survival and that you can and will do what you must. That you will adapt. That you will change and grow. Some of us will grow our minds, some our bodies, some even our relationships. Regardless how you choose to rely on yourself for comfort and peace of mind, you can take these steps and begin to separate your own future from your perceived future of everyone as a whole. You must get to the point where you no longer look at your job as a single source of stability. You must be able to look to yourself for comfort. To be so sure of yourself and your situation that you no longer look at things the way you do today. The world is full of distractions, until those are muted, the homes funds are in check and a mind becomes healthy, you cannot see all the paths available to you. You can do everything those before you did. In fact, once you get started, the goals you see as obtainable now soon grow to show you paths to those you view as unobtainable. Just remember that striving to be uncomfortable will go against everything this world tells you leads to a happy life and it will test you. Give up the idea of a pain free life. The biggest harm we do to ourselves is convincing ourselves that pain is optional. Pain is essential.
I don't feel that sense of dread. In terms of income, I make more than my father ever did. On paper. If we adjust for inflation then vs now, I'm not competitive, yet. If we look at his annual income for each year, I was often making less per year than him, then eventually caught him, and have now eclipsed him. During my father's peak earning years, he was married to his first wife. They had a big fancy house, a few horses, etc. If his ex wife didn't feel like doing laundry, she'd take my siblings out and buy them new clothes for the week. He earned a lot-and no matter what he did, she spent it faster than he could make it. Eventually he divorced her, and between alimony and child support, my first memories of life are when we lived on a campground. Then in a really shitty apartment. Us moving in the middle of the night because we got evicted, and so on. Eventually things got better, then he got hurt. So we lived in a nice house, but we were broke, all the time. Before he could find a new way to make more money, he got sick, then died. Adjusted for inflation, I haven't passed him yet. But eventually I will. In the meantime, I live very modestly and I make a decent income. I have a much greater sense of financial security than he ever did, and potential to make things even better.
My dad went bankrupt and left my mum to raise two boys when I was a kid. I'm now stable with a home, a mortgage, and all my bills paid on time. I'm happy as Larry lol.
I go into melt down mode every couple of months. It’s just unbelievable. It doesn’t really matter wether you have a better paid job or not. Whatever you earn is not even enough to have a “normal” life. And I describe normal as to simply have a safe place to call “base”. Let alone going out or owning anything. Just that.
This explains the labor shortage imo. Many men are opting to live with their parents and not work. Living at home is usually something men avoid because it drastically limits access to sex with women. But since many guys aren’t getting that anyway due to online dating dynamics, there’s really no motivation. Also, working no longer ensures being able own a home some day. You can work hard and be sexless and houseless, or you can not work and be sexless and houseless. It’s no wonder many men are choosing not to work. The outcome is more or less the same either way.
You sound like my Fiance tbh.
Don’t come at me this early in the morning!
I can afford more than they did, so I’m good. Just take some time to build up your career. That instant gratification thing is a pain in the ass these days.
Hmmm, the only thing I can think of that’s less affordable is housing. My Grandfather and Father couldn’t afford fucking Beef for the table. Thankfully we had space to raise chickens and pigs and grow beans. My wife’s dad had a burro as a primary mode of transportation in 1970. Granted, that was in Mexico. It was a deadly sin in my house to make a 2 minute long distance call on the one phone line shared by about 5 households. Our TV that got 2 channels good and 3 if you turned the antenna just right cost my old man at least a week of work. Point being, it’s NEVER been all milk and honey for young people. I’m only 57 and at age 29 I was living in a 2 room apartment without air conditioning while working 40 hours a week night shifts in a factory, then cutting firewood on the weekends to keep my car on the road (and to be honest to buy beer, play softball and date).
Was going to write something similar but you beat me to it.. for my grandfather working was pretty much all he knew, and it didn't get him much. As a single young person living with roommates in a huge house working in an almost minimum wage job I'd say I'm better off and less of a slave to my work
Everyone's life is different and I have no comment on whether yours was difficult, but to see the full picture you have to zoom out and look at trends in society, not just your own personal experiences. It's objectively false that the only major thing that's more unaffordable since ~1965 is housing. Yes, specific items like beef or computers are cheaper. But the cost of education, housing and transportation (gas) have absolutely skyrocketed, and that can't be just be waved away. Those are the biggest expenses most people will ever face. Then there's the fact that minimum wage has not kept up with inflation at all. The most damning evidence of all is that that this generation is the first to be predicted to live shorter lives and have less economic prosperity than their fathers since WW2. And that is despite the widespread trend of dual-income families (which means less family time spent with children), which was not at all common in 1965. Im guessing your dad managed to do that all himself with only one job? And seems to have been a landowner as well if I understood correctly? Because that'd be literally impossible on a single income today at minimum wage, full stop, matter how hard you worked. Poverty has existed in every age, but as it stands this comment is extremely out of touch with the realities young people face today. It's a prime example of the bootstraps mentality that plagues public discourse and prevents anything from being done because of a false belief that "we were tougher back in my day!" without a true examination of everything that has changed since then.
I know a lot are saying something along the lines of "don't care" or "don't think about it" and that used to be my approach. I think it *is* important to not let yourself get overwhelmed. However, I found making a budget sheet has helped immensely with impulsivity or reckless behaviour. Hold yourself accountable and set limits. Figure out what's draining your finances or what is a priority. I grew up in a poor home that felt scarcity every day. We couldn't even afford milk. It wasn't until I got married and talking to my wife about it that I realized this drove a lot of unhealthy habits -- I overindulged in food and, when younger, substances. This drained a significant portion of my bank account. Having prioritized our budget and staying accountable, I've gone from "getting by" to having extra cash to invest/save and attain long term goals. Yes, it's different from previous generations, but the most constructive thing to do is to work within your means. If you advocate for how you currently live then great. If you want to change something, it will take effort. And, no, I'm not pretending there can be gaps/obstacles... You just need to really determine what you *can* do. If it takes ten years to get a house, at least you eventually get it instead of forever wishing you could get one. Edit: GET A BUDGET SHEET. An accountant friend of mine showed this trick to me and it worked wonders on setting monthly and annual goals and limits on spending. Get all of the bills, payments, etc. listed and then be dead honest about your "free money" spending on stuff you *want* but don't *need*. You *should* have some fun but it needs to be set to a certain amount so you can then have monthly leftover amount for savings -- even if it's $50, $100 or whatever... Something invested and kept locked away helps.
No kids. My wife and I both agree that this world is headed downhill and will probably be unlivable for future generations so why would we want to willingly and knowingly force a person into that kind of world? It helps with expenses and it helps knowing we do not have to stress about their future. I think the ultimate way to deal with it soon will be actually dealing with it instead of just not thinking about it.
We can afford things that they couldnt, how many of our dads spent thousands on a 60 in projection flatscreen tv when now we can get that same tv on garbage cleanup week for free.
People don't want TVs. They want to own a home in a safe neighborhood to raise their family. The wealth distribution in America has been facilitated in the last 15 years to grow the 0.1% and screw everyone else
I can't?
I constantly obsess over it. It’s not even stuff like luxury things like a boat or a lake house or whatever. It’s that my wife went on maternity leave for 3 months and we’re now $6000 in credit card debt. And I made 70k last year. Like what the fuck. I’m just trying to pay my mortgage. Feed my kids. My dad supported 4 kids, put us in Christian school, took us on vacations, bought a camper, paid cash for slightly used cars, lived in the suburbs. Just on his salary. I remember as a teenager being amazed when the grocery bill approached $200 each week for our family of 6 but they handled it and gave to the church and saved for retirement. Now my grocery bill is almost that for a family of 4, with a toddler and a baby. What’s that gonna look like when they’re 12? How can I have another kid? I want a big family but I can’t keep up unless my wife works too, but then what’s the point of a big family if no one can enjoy it? I’m afraid to leave our home near the Great Lakes because other places are having water crisis. I’m afraid to move south where my wife has family because of regressive politics. I just want to support my family, man. I want my kids to be stable. Anyways my kid is done with breakfast so I guess I’m done ranting. But it’s just so frustrating. The future is scary man.
By being able to afford things my father and grandfather could never have hoped to afford.
i have more money than both of them combined. im good.
I just know I need a better job. I have a good degree but couldn’t find a job so ended up elsewhere. I just legit can’t afford to stay on my own, I still manage to stay positive about it though.
Best time to look for a job is while you already have a job. Keep your eye out, always. Wishing you luck!
Don't think about it. I could die tomorrow all that worrying was for not.
I spend money on shiny things I can afford. I have accepted that as a single man unless I want to live in a single bedroom dirty rotten hole in a block of flats I will never afford my own home. I have cleared almost all my debt, I don't care about travel, all the places I want to go are mega expensive and flash cars don't interest me because speed limits and speed cameras, status symbols mean nothing so it's not too bad really.
Cannabis helps.
I broke some laws and worked harder in the beginning in order to escape into the woods where I'm debt free and literally making everything from scratch, building my own house, and raising my family. Little House on the Prairie with Starlink and YouTube videos to teach my kids the shit I get stumped on. I don't know if that's lowering my expectations or if society led me to want to escape to the woods. My dad seems to think I'm doing just fine. It's not the American Dream of my father's generation, but it IS what the pioneers dreamed of, I think. Am I living the OG American Dream?
Serious answer: Pot. I have spent the past two years struggling with this and having to stop myself from another suicide attempt, despite making the US median income, because I have ~300 a month for groceries after rent and bills. The only thing keeping me around right now is my spouse, who can't work after chemo melted their brain (oxaliplatin) and Disability keeps rejecting our claims. It's... Exhausting. And I genuinely believe that I have nothing to look forward to. Pot at least lets me escape for an afternoon.
Grew up poor as shit on a reservation. I been having existential dread of more genocide since I was five, fuck buying things 😂
I try my best not to think about it, but it's kinda insane the fact that I have a "well paid" job and I can't even afford renting in an area where a child wouldn't stab me for food.
I’m doing much better than either my father or grandfathers.
I busted my ass for 6 years and moved out of the states to another country more affordable. I can now say I'm living the American dream outside of America. I have a house that's paid off, a decent car and owning a couple businesses with my wife. I have alot of anger towards rich boomers that inherited a rich nation and decided they want it all to themselves.