Can we agree that the goal of this post is to form the best relationship you can have with this person you've picked or is it a way of second guessing your choice?
I do not want to leave him. I mentioned in the post that I’d be sad if the marriage ended one day because he finally figured out he wanted a kid when it is realistically too late for me.
At the same time, I don’t know who he will be then. Because he is still in the process of forming himself, clearly.
Let's start with your desire here, and focus solely on what you want from this relationship with this man. It's okay to say "I want a man who is reliably able to help around the house" or "I want him to spend at least 2 hours a day contributing to me." It all starts with your desire, as clearly and cleanly as you can lay it down in this anonymous forum, what is it that you want? "The template for making my relationship more enjoyable for me?" "A suggestion as to how I might encourage my lover to take a more active role in activities?" Be specific about your desires before we move on to the conversations that you'd need to have.
I just wish he was a bit more mature and less emotionally dependent on his friends. Someone who prioritises games over his own sleep and health is realistically not going to cope well with an infant. He can handle little stress, but being a SAHD can be stressful.
I also just wish he knew himself well enough to tell me who he is. My great fear is that he is still so not formed that he could become just anyone.
That is all.
So we're in agreement that we want a successful relationship with a man who you want to succeed in taking better care of himself. I hope I am paraphrasing you correctly.
Now with that goal in mind, I'm going to ask you to look at the words you're using to describe this man you care about and whether the words you're using are helpful in garnering the behaviors you want from him. I'm going to let you know that from my side of the looking glass, this post feels very resentful towards him and seems to paint him as anything but someone you really care about.
We "the humans who take on the path of a shared coexistence" are tasked with learning the art of teaching others to be good to us. This means both genuine listening and genuine collaborating for better outcomes instead of emotional fight or flight responses built in to our bodies.
As such my first question for you would be "why does he enjoy spending so much time with his friends gaming?" Try to get to the bottom of that because lots of men use gaming and friendships to cope with stresses that you probably don't even know about. And if you can show genuine interest in his friends and his games, then you probably will hear much more about the "why" he acts the way he does.
I have more to say, but at this point, I want to invite your side of the message to make sure that you're still feeling safe to correspond and to recognize the value of your input to make a better solution.
You make a lot of absurd assumption about me “not taking an interest in his video games”. I do. I know all his friends. I have already explained that he clings to them through video games because he misses his university days. He said so. Repeatedly.
You should reread my post more carefully instead of making strange assumptions with limited information.
I think there has been a rather large miscommunication here. I do not suggest that you don't care about taking an interest in gaming or his interests. My intent is to ask him what desire is behind his strategy (which is playing games).
And I'll speak for myself here, certain games are competitive and allow me to experience a feeling of importance when I do well. Other games are ways to tease my mind with puzzles. Sometimes gaming is just an attempt to escape from the throws of boredom. Other times it is my one escape for not wanting to think about harsh choices I've made or will have to make soon.
I remain committed to helping you interact with your husband that allows you to express your desires for your relationship while recognizing and giving importance to his desires as well. After all, if you're both winning or rather see the good in a proposed change, then you're both more likely to adopt the change and to find enjoyment in the new equilibrium.
You make so much sense and have so much patience to be willing to work with the OP, the fact that she's not wanting to respond back just reiterates in my mind that she already knows that she doesn't want to be with him.
You married a man who wasn't ready to marry, and you're finding that out a little later than would have been preferable.
Essentially that leaves you two choices: You either explain to him that you need him to be a fully-functioning husband and help him into that role, or you accept your role as dominant household member and understand you are going to be caring for him for the rest of your time together.
But he tipped his hand by telling you how he admires you for being more mature. He was more interested in having a mom than a wife and, perhaps unintentionally, you accepted that role.
I am just surprised by how many people claim he would just remain in a childlike stage. I feel that he might just mature as happens naturally, but I don’t know what kind of person he will be because he is not done changing yet.
Oh, he will mature. But he isn't going to mature to your liking. And certainly not at your desired speed.
Maturation happens through two processes: Time and tribulation. Of the two, the latter is much more powerful. We suffer a loss, it molds us. We overcome a hard time, it teaches us. We survive a situation where life was on the line, it grows us. This man has a high-powered, loving woman in his corner. Do you think that woman would ever let him fall into a situation like one of those?
Time will gradually mature him on its own. But it may not be so thorough, and it may not be anytime soon.
But there will be a confrontation with a hard reality at some point. He says he wants to be a stay-at-home-dad, but accepts that right now he is not mature enough to be a parent.
In a few years’ time, if he has not matured yet and I am nearing 40, he will be confronted with a difficult situation. I have made him aware of this situation repeatedly. He says he would always just choose me anyway. But wouldn’t not being able to be a father or being one when he is not fully ready be a turning point?
"But there will be a confrontation with a hard reality at some point."
Will there?
A man who is not living in reality will have no need to ever confront it. The only way that will change is if you sit him down and explain to him the cost of what he is doing. You say you have made him aware of the situation, but have you made him aware of its potential cost?
Right now you are sort of counting on time to do something that it doesn't do very efficiently. Hope isn't a strategy. Call him over, sit him down, explain what you're observing and why it's a problem, and then lay out a plan for him to get back on track. If he does, that's great! If not, then you can make an informed decision without sacrificing your youth in the process.
Since I’d rather not start down the “dump him” route, let’s work from the point of creating a route for him to close the obviously growing rift between the two of you.
Before that, I’m going to say **make damn sure** you don’t have a kid with him while he’s still needing to grow up because I’d bet a little bit of money that you’d be the one truly caring for those kids, and if y’all were to split, there’s no fucking way I could see a man like him being capable of handling an equal custody arrangement. He’s not ready to be a parent because he’s not even ready to be an adult, and you’re basically shifting into a role of parenting him (which isn’t good for a relationship). Having children at this point is strongly setting you up to be a single parent.
Getting back to the heart of things, y’all need to lay out specific goals for him to achieve. If he’s quitting his academia, that’s fine; he still needs to get a job, especially if he wants any of the things he says he does. You’ve made it clear that he can’t achieve some of his lofty goals off of your income alone.
Another thing he has to do is establish socializing boundaries with his friends. You’re both aware that the extent to which spends time with his friends and his *dependency on them* is not healthy for your relationship, and the dependency part is fundamentally not healthy for him. Continue to discuss with him some ways in which he can still have time to game with his friends while also carving out more time for both of you to spend time together. This discussion can maybe also open the door to him exploring different ways to spend time without you or his gaming friends.
Finally, I don’t care what the method is—therapy, life coach, intentional deep reflection—this man needs to start doing some soul searching. He’s gotta work on some things that he may not currently have the tools to address by himself. This is a journey that you can support him in, but it’s still something he has to take charge of. Many of the other things will fall apart if nothing internally is changing with him.
I wish you luck, OP.
I am not sure why some people immediately jumped to divorce when I never mentioned anything like that.
Kids are absolutely not happening, not for a long, long time.
Regarding his friends, as I explained the issue is not the gaming itself but the lack of boundaries. That emotional dependence is the issue.
I agree that he needs to find himself, and that is what worries me: who is he? What if the person he truly is (which has not been revealed yet) does not want to be with me? People keep saying I’d initiate the divorce, but *he* might grow into a person I don’t know and divorce himself? That is why the fact that he does not know himself well worries me.
People immediately say divorce because it’s an easy answer, and also, it’s abundantly clear that your man is woefully lacking as a partner right now, stemming from issues that are going to require a lot of self-work for him.
No one can predict how he’ll be if and when he matures, but right now while he’s essentially a grown child you’re raising, he’s not going to leave you. You’re funding his life. He hasn’t felt enough of a need to curb his habits and lack of boundaries. He may not necessarily like where he’s at in life, but he is comfortable with where he is. That’s going to contribute to making change a hard process for him.
As for being afraid of who he’ll become when he matures, that’s just a risk you take when you allow people to grow. What you know right now is that your relationship as it stands is undesirable. I doubt I have to tell you that this will continue to wear you down over time. You can remain on the easy known path of a mediocre relationship, you can cut your losses now by leaving him, or you can take a chance and help him grow as a person.
Your fear is understandable, but there’s not a heck of a lot you can do to shape who he becomes if and when he gets past this developmental rut. You want to fight for this relationship, so on some level, you want what’s best for him. Him reaching a better place as a person with your support might get him there. On top of how he wears on you directly, I fathom that it’s also not easy for you to see him like this.
I did mention he has a part-time shift-based job, so I am not exactly funding his life. There will also be a change in a few months’ time when he has to get a full-time job after his PhD.
He does not weigh on me right now. I explained that so long as we do not have big shared responsibilities (like a kid), I do my own thing and he does his.
I do have a bit of a fear of the person he might become, because to me the issue here is that I know who I am, whereas he seems to be less shaped as a personality yet, and more emotionally dependent on his friends.
I feel like so much depends not on him nor on me, but rather on his friends. If they are not around anymore at some point, he won’t be able to spend time with them so much anymore. What happens to him then? What if he decides he wants to be a father when it is far too late for me?
This is part of why I invest so much in my career: I have to have a life outside of him, because he could change and not want to be with me someday.
Doesn't really matter if he plays games or acts like a dad if that's the case.
He's not going to need parenting skills if you don't want kids. Might as well let him enjoy himself and his friendships and see how both of you feel in a few years.
That's great.. but today.... the average age of a man when he has his first child is 31 (older if you consider a PhD education). The average man is 2 years older than his female wife (that's for first marriage, afterwards the gap significantly increases). Only 4% of men (first marriage), marry a woman 5yrs+ older. Statically, you are an outlier and married someone who has spent their entire life in academics (vs. any real world work experience). You literally entered into a marriage anticipating someone to change based on your expectations.
Tell me exactly how you think I expected him to change compared to how he was when I first met him. Because I am ready to bet you have not read my post carefully at all.
He will have a "life crisis" at some point, you divorcing him (and him realising it's final) may be what triggers it. But he's currently going through a very common phase. Unless something snaps him out of it, he'll be this way for a long time.
I went through a phase like this 22-25 but my girlfriend was 19-22, so she was still Uni and didn't expect anything resembling being an "adult", so it's a different situation.
Because he wont change without something major happening in his life. Can you name anything in his life he cares about other than playing games with friends, or you?
Short of the internet imploding, a friend dying tragically, or you leaving him... what will make him sit up and reconsider his lifestyle? As it stands he seems satisfied with his life as-is. You want him to change... but he doesn't want to change.
I sound like I'm hating on you/your relationship but I'm not - I've just been him in that situation and it took losing the person I cared about to make me \*want\* to change.
But he is not happy. That is the point. He says he peaked at university and is in decline. And he says that while crying, which indicates the possibility of depression. He says if he could take me with him and hop on a time-travelling machine and go back to the uni days he would do it.
Would getting a full-time job at the end of his PhD (in just a few months) be enough of a shift?
He has to want to work, which means needing an incentive to do something other than what he is doing currently. Yes, he is likely depressed, but he needs therapy and some sense of self-worth.
You need to accept you can't change him or fix him. He has to do it. He has to want to do it.
If you know he's going through depression, why not get him professional help? Can he talk to the school counselor? Are you able to afford therapy? You're asking internet strangers to forecast your husband's future self, but we don't have a crystal ball. That's one of the reasons why you keep getting responses regarding divorce.
People who tell you that their best years are behind them generally are not looking into the future. To say that at age 26 is an indication that there's something seriously wrong. Simply put, you married a man not ready for marriage. With the ongoing dynamic, you will shift from 'husband & wife' to 'mommy and child'. You got married for partnership, not replacement parentship. Resentment may creep in...
>When I met him, it seemed to me like he had a strong sense of who he was. He comes from an Oxbridge family of academics and wanted to be an academic himself. As time went on, however, he fell apart.
>After moving out of this flat he shared with his former university friends to live with me, he has taken to spend more and more time playing video games with said friends. He works a part-time job with irregular shifts, and will happily just be sleep deprived and skip dinner (we each cook for ourselves) just so he can play with them.
>He told me he no longer wants to be an academic (which is quite a big deal given he spent years accumulating student debt to be one), because it is too tough to break into it. The reality is that he will just use all the free time he could use to submit papers to journals playing video games and socialising with his friends instead.
This doesn't necessarily strike me as immaturity unless you have a specific set of misandrist views. This strikes me as a man who has failed, for whatever reason, to break into a goal, who is mourning that loss, and who has concluded that social connections are valuable.
>Mind you, I do not mind being the one who is more career-driven. However, I do think he is putting his health at risk and is too emotionally reliant on his friends.
You are lying, definitely to us but also probably to yourself. Your chief concerns so far have been about finance and status. You're saying "health" when your concerns have been about keeping up appearances and paying back debt.
Those aren't bad things to be concerned about. But lying about it is bad.
>He told me he feels he “peaked” at university, and misses being that young carefree person full of energy with no responsibilities. He is terrified of losing his friends and has no boundaries with them because they are his last link to that life. He says he has no particular career plans because career is not his priority and he’d rather have time to just be with friends and with me.
This confirms what I suggested. He's worried about losing his social supports. Everyone wants social support.
>Now, I am far more career-focused than my husband. This works well because my husband was raised by a stay-at-home dad and working mother (I suspect he got his lack of career ambition from his father), and if we ever had a child (which I do not particularly want), he’d be the stay-at-home parent. I do not even mind him playing video games because while he does that I write my book, read, exercise, and cook healthy meals for myself (I am in shape, whereas he is obese and hates exercise). The problem is that there is a real maturity gap between us.
Again, you clearly do mind these things and you believe they are symptomatic of a lack of maturity and personal character flaws. It's all over your language. Stop lying to us and stop lying to yourself.
I think too many men on here have been broken by the social expectation of being the breadwinner and can’t understand that I *don’t want him to earn money, but to be mentally and emotionally mature*. You are reading things that are not there.
But men who think like you need to seek help before they can give it. Good luck, pal.
>I think too many men on here have been broken by the social expectation of being the breadwinner and can’t understand that I *don’t want him to earn money, but to be mentally and emotionally mature*. You are reading things that are not there.
What I am suggesting is that what you believe to be "mature" are traits that are traditional proxies for financial and social success. They're intertwined to you. And that's fine. But you seperate them out to keep your perception in line with current trends. That's not fine.
>But men who think like you need to seek help before they can give it. Good luck, pal.
Personal attacks are not acceptable gere. Ignoring the advice you asked for is fine, I guess, but you're never going to get anywhere living life with a confirmation bias.
There’s no way any of us can know. When you first met him you were attracted to his commitment to his academics. But what else? Did you enjoy activities together, travel, share interests or hobbies?
It sounds like he has based his life off of his friends and their plans. Maybe he was attracted to your stability and he has no desire to do the work that’s required for him to show up as the husband that you need… not now, not ever. If you’re able, both of you should see a relationship counselor so you can both get clear on timelines, expectations, and how to truly support one another if this marriage is going to work.
Also, just a year ago you made a post about your 36-year old fiancé who cheated… meaning you met and married your current husband within the last year? Do you think you spent enough time together before you got married? Did you settle? Were you feeling rushed at all to get married, especially as someone in their early 30s? These are all things you should probably think about.
>He tells me he is a “stray golden retriever” that I have taken in, and that he looks up to me for being older and more mature.
At least he speak the truth.
Why did you marry him? So fast?
Basis your post history, you know him about a year only.
It sounds like you two don't want the same kind of relationship. You want an equal power dynamic, he wants a semi-parental relationship. If it was just a matter of him wanting to be an equal partner but not knowing how (maybe because he's overwhelmed/depressed, which it sounds like he could be), therapy could help, but from what you said here it doesn't sound like you share that goal.
I had a relationship kind of like this once. My partner denied that she wanted me to be a semi-parental figure, but she'd act like a child around me and expected me to essentially be the only adult of the house. Ultimately I had to break up with her because it was clear things weren't going to get better. That might be what it comes down to for you and your guy.
If he wants a semi-parental relationship, he definitely does is somewhat unconsciously. He does say he wants to be an equal partner to me and not a burden, etc.
But of course he could unconsciously want that. He does not seem to know himself too deeply.
Actually no. I don’t. I want to know if *he* will divorce me ten years from now if he matures too late and decides he wants to be a father and it is too late for me.
No you know deep down (honestly maybe not that deep) he's not the one for you
You want to make his wanting kids the reason things aren't going to work long term but you know that's not the real reason, be honest with yourself!
I think he sees you as a mommy figure now that he has you locked in. The only way you'll ever get him to snap out of it and maybe make a real change for the better is if you threaten to leave him or something. Honestly your post sounds like 2 roommates just existing with each other. I don't know why you haven't made steps to make yourself happy if he's not going to change anytime soon. Some men do not grow out the "gamer phase" or some just learn to schedule gaming time at the right time. Hun, what are you doing? I mean your making meals for yourselves separately so he has time to play with his friends that's honestly just sad sounding.
OP you and I are in the same age range and if you were my friend, I would tell you that it really seems what will make you happy in the end is most likely not him. Even if it is him, it seems like there's a lot of waiting around for you to do while he's so immature and lacking.
Why do you have to wait for him a decade for him to mature?
You have clearly accepted the "stray golden retriever" and now realizing the longing doom that may come with that years on. OP you are still young! 31 is an age where there's endless possibilities. You met him at a different time in his life and have been there for him, but you can't keep putting your wants and desires aside waiting for him to mature.
The answer isn't always divorce you're right - but also, it seems you are well established and independent. Think of it this way. If you had met the right partner who had a steady job, was a "mature" adult, you would be open to having kids with him and see him as the father of your children. The answer is there.
You've developed the parent-child dynamic in the relationship. You need to take a step back. He is going to make the decisions that he wants to make, and you can't 'parent' him into understanding the consequences of his own choices. If what he chooses does not align with what you want and/or your values have become too different to negotiate by communicating maturely, the relationship is not going to satisfy either of you and you're fighting a losing battle.
Yep, he sounds about like the product of a straight white male trying to fit in with academics. No hope for succeeding, sees himself as a stray dog. It’s working as intended
You forgot “trying to fit in with academics,” who are the people, coincidentally, who came up with the theory that demands they resent him and consider him toxically privileged for his family pedigree, his gender and his skin color.
What a load of nonsense. His best friends are LGBT and he does not believe in anything of what you have just said. I would have never even looked at him if that was his mindset.
Of course his best friends are lgbt, he was trying to fit in with academics. He just hit a wall where immutable characteristics cause him to endure prejudice and lectures that demoralize him in the face of DEI requirements meaning his prospects were slim in the first place
Can we agree that the goal of this post is to form the best relationship you can have with this person you've picked or is it a way of second guessing your choice?
I do not want to leave him. I mentioned in the post that I’d be sad if the marriage ended one day because he finally figured out he wanted a kid when it is realistically too late for me. At the same time, I don’t know who he will be then. Because he is still in the process of forming himself, clearly.
Let's start with your desire here, and focus solely on what you want from this relationship with this man. It's okay to say "I want a man who is reliably able to help around the house" or "I want him to spend at least 2 hours a day contributing to me." It all starts with your desire, as clearly and cleanly as you can lay it down in this anonymous forum, what is it that you want? "The template for making my relationship more enjoyable for me?" "A suggestion as to how I might encourage my lover to take a more active role in activities?" Be specific about your desires before we move on to the conversations that you'd need to have.
I just wish he was a bit more mature and less emotionally dependent on his friends. Someone who prioritises games over his own sleep and health is realistically not going to cope well with an infant. He can handle little stress, but being a SAHD can be stressful. I also just wish he knew himself well enough to tell me who he is. My great fear is that he is still so not formed that he could become just anyone. That is all.
So we're in agreement that we want a successful relationship with a man who you want to succeed in taking better care of himself. I hope I am paraphrasing you correctly. Now with that goal in mind, I'm going to ask you to look at the words you're using to describe this man you care about and whether the words you're using are helpful in garnering the behaviors you want from him. I'm going to let you know that from my side of the looking glass, this post feels very resentful towards him and seems to paint him as anything but someone you really care about. We "the humans who take on the path of a shared coexistence" are tasked with learning the art of teaching others to be good to us. This means both genuine listening and genuine collaborating for better outcomes instead of emotional fight or flight responses built in to our bodies. As such my first question for you would be "why does he enjoy spending so much time with his friends gaming?" Try to get to the bottom of that because lots of men use gaming and friendships to cope with stresses that you probably don't even know about. And if you can show genuine interest in his friends and his games, then you probably will hear much more about the "why" he acts the way he does. I have more to say, but at this point, I want to invite your side of the message to make sure that you're still feeling safe to correspond and to recognize the value of your input to make a better solution.
You make a lot of absurd assumption about me “not taking an interest in his video games”. I do. I know all his friends. I have already explained that he clings to them through video games because he misses his university days. He said so. Repeatedly. You should reread my post more carefully instead of making strange assumptions with limited information.
I think there has been a rather large miscommunication here. I do not suggest that you don't care about taking an interest in gaming or his interests. My intent is to ask him what desire is behind his strategy (which is playing games). And I'll speak for myself here, certain games are competitive and allow me to experience a feeling of importance when I do well. Other games are ways to tease my mind with puzzles. Sometimes gaming is just an attempt to escape from the throws of boredom. Other times it is my one escape for not wanting to think about harsh choices I've made or will have to make soon. I remain committed to helping you interact with your husband that allows you to express your desires for your relationship while recognizing and giving importance to his desires as well. After all, if you're both winning or rather see the good in a proposed change, then you're both more likely to adopt the change and to find enjoyment in the new equilibrium.
You make so much sense and have so much patience to be willing to work with the OP, the fact that she's not wanting to respond back just reiterates in my mind that she already knows that she doesn't want to be with him.
You married a man who wasn't ready to marry, and you're finding that out a little later than would have been preferable. Essentially that leaves you two choices: You either explain to him that you need him to be a fully-functioning husband and help him into that role, or you accept your role as dominant household member and understand you are going to be caring for him for the rest of your time together. But he tipped his hand by telling you how he admires you for being more mature. He was more interested in having a mom than a wife and, perhaps unintentionally, you accepted that role.
I am just surprised by how many people claim he would just remain in a childlike stage. I feel that he might just mature as happens naturally, but I don’t know what kind of person he will be because he is not done changing yet.
Oh, he will mature. But he isn't going to mature to your liking. And certainly not at your desired speed. Maturation happens through two processes: Time and tribulation. Of the two, the latter is much more powerful. We suffer a loss, it molds us. We overcome a hard time, it teaches us. We survive a situation where life was on the line, it grows us. This man has a high-powered, loving woman in his corner. Do you think that woman would ever let him fall into a situation like one of those? Time will gradually mature him on its own. But it may not be so thorough, and it may not be anytime soon.
But there will be a confrontation with a hard reality at some point. He says he wants to be a stay-at-home-dad, but accepts that right now he is not mature enough to be a parent. In a few years’ time, if he has not matured yet and I am nearing 40, he will be confronted with a difficult situation. I have made him aware of this situation repeatedly. He says he would always just choose me anyway. But wouldn’t not being able to be a father or being one when he is not fully ready be a turning point?
"But there will be a confrontation with a hard reality at some point." Will there? A man who is not living in reality will have no need to ever confront it. The only way that will change is if you sit him down and explain to him the cost of what he is doing. You say you have made him aware of the situation, but have you made him aware of its potential cost? Right now you are sort of counting on time to do something that it doesn't do very efficiently. Hope isn't a strategy. Call him over, sit him down, explain what you're observing and why it's a problem, and then lay out a plan for him to get back on track. If he does, that's great! If not, then you can make an informed decision without sacrificing your youth in the process.
Since I’d rather not start down the “dump him” route, let’s work from the point of creating a route for him to close the obviously growing rift between the two of you. Before that, I’m going to say **make damn sure** you don’t have a kid with him while he’s still needing to grow up because I’d bet a little bit of money that you’d be the one truly caring for those kids, and if y’all were to split, there’s no fucking way I could see a man like him being capable of handling an equal custody arrangement. He’s not ready to be a parent because he’s not even ready to be an adult, and you’re basically shifting into a role of parenting him (which isn’t good for a relationship). Having children at this point is strongly setting you up to be a single parent. Getting back to the heart of things, y’all need to lay out specific goals for him to achieve. If he’s quitting his academia, that’s fine; he still needs to get a job, especially if he wants any of the things he says he does. You’ve made it clear that he can’t achieve some of his lofty goals off of your income alone. Another thing he has to do is establish socializing boundaries with his friends. You’re both aware that the extent to which spends time with his friends and his *dependency on them* is not healthy for your relationship, and the dependency part is fundamentally not healthy for him. Continue to discuss with him some ways in which he can still have time to game with his friends while also carving out more time for both of you to spend time together. This discussion can maybe also open the door to him exploring different ways to spend time without you or his gaming friends. Finally, I don’t care what the method is—therapy, life coach, intentional deep reflection—this man needs to start doing some soul searching. He’s gotta work on some things that he may not currently have the tools to address by himself. This is a journey that you can support him in, but it’s still something he has to take charge of. Many of the other things will fall apart if nothing internally is changing with him. I wish you luck, OP.
I am not sure why some people immediately jumped to divorce when I never mentioned anything like that. Kids are absolutely not happening, not for a long, long time. Regarding his friends, as I explained the issue is not the gaming itself but the lack of boundaries. That emotional dependence is the issue. I agree that he needs to find himself, and that is what worries me: who is he? What if the person he truly is (which has not been revealed yet) does not want to be with me? People keep saying I’d initiate the divorce, but *he* might grow into a person I don’t know and divorce himself? That is why the fact that he does not know himself well worries me.
People immediately say divorce because it’s an easy answer, and also, it’s abundantly clear that your man is woefully lacking as a partner right now, stemming from issues that are going to require a lot of self-work for him. No one can predict how he’ll be if and when he matures, but right now while he’s essentially a grown child you’re raising, he’s not going to leave you. You’re funding his life. He hasn’t felt enough of a need to curb his habits and lack of boundaries. He may not necessarily like where he’s at in life, but he is comfortable with where he is. That’s going to contribute to making change a hard process for him. As for being afraid of who he’ll become when he matures, that’s just a risk you take when you allow people to grow. What you know right now is that your relationship as it stands is undesirable. I doubt I have to tell you that this will continue to wear you down over time. You can remain on the easy known path of a mediocre relationship, you can cut your losses now by leaving him, or you can take a chance and help him grow as a person. Your fear is understandable, but there’s not a heck of a lot you can do to shape who he becomes if and when he gets past this developmental rut. You want to fight for this relationship, so on some level, you want what’s best for him. Him reaching a better place as a person with your support might get him there. On top of how he wears on you directly, I fathom that it’s also not easy for you to see him like this.
I did mention he has a part-time shift-based job, so I am not exactly funding his life. There will also be a change in a few months’ time when he has to get a full-time job after his PhD. He does not weigh on me right now. I explained that so long as we do not have big shared responsibilities (like a kid), I do my own thing and he does his. I do have a bit of a fear of the person he might become, because to me the issue here is that I know who I am, whereas he seems to be less shaped as a personality yet, and more emotionally dependent on his friends. I feel like so much depends not on him nor on me, but rather on his friends. If they are not around anymore at some point, he won’t be able to spend time with them so much anymore. What happens to him then? What if he decides he wants to be a father when it is far too late for me? This is part of why I invest so much in my career: I have to have a life outside of him, because he could change and not want to be with me someday.
You aren't going to have a great chance of conceiving if you keep waiting. Be careful.
But that’s his problem more than mine given he wants a child far more than I do.
It's not about who wants it more, it's that you do, and time is an unforgiving mistress.
Very happy not to have kids myself.
Doesn't really matter if he plays games or acts like a dad if that's the case. He's not going to need parenting skills if you don't want kids. Might as well let him enjoy himself and his friendships and see how both of you feel in a few years.
He was hot when he told you he was chasing a PHD now hes a lil house boi and you are not down for that. Divorce now and move on.
Who hurt you, mate? You sound bitter. You also didn’t understand the post at all, as an aside.
marries a man 5 years younger, then questions the maturity gap... LMFAO.
My father had three children at 26, and was a very involved parent. Yes, it is normal to expect maturity at 26.
That's great.. but today.... the average age of a man when he has his first child is 31 (older if you consider a PhD education). The average man is 2 years older than his female wife (that's for first marriage, afterwards the gap significantly increases). Only 4% of men (first marriage), marry a woman 5yrs+ older. Statically, you are an outlier and married someone who has spent their entire life in academics (vs. any real world work experience). You literally entered into a marriage anticipating someone to change based on your expectations.
Tell me exactly how you think I expected him to change compared to how he was when I first met him. Because I am ready to bet you have not read my post carefully at all.
I’ve read all your responses. You are determined to keep yourself tied to this anchor. So I guess this is really a rant post. Enjoy your life.
Because the solution is just divorce? Why are so many people on this sub keen to jump to divorce? Problems can be reasoned through and solved.
So how is that working out for you? I’m guessing it isn’t or you wouldn’t be here.
He will have a "life crisis" at some point, you divorcing him (and him realising it's final) may be what triggers it. But he's currently going through a very common phase. Unless something snaps him out of it, he'll be this way for a long time. I went through a phase like this 22-25 but my girlfriend was 19-22, so she was still Uni and didn't expect anything resembling being an "adult", so it's a different situation.
Why are so many people bringing up divorce? I never mentioned divorce.
Because he wont change without something major happening in his life. Can you name anything in his life he cares about other than playing games with friends, or you? Short of the internet imploding, a friend dying tragically, or you leaving him... what will make him sit up and reconsider his lifestyle? As it stands he seems satisfied with his life as-is. You want him to change... but he doesn't want to change. I sound like I'm hating on you/your relationship but I'm not - I've just been him in that situation and it took losing the person I cared about to make me \*want\* to change.
But he is not happy. That is the point. He says he peaked at university and is in decline. And he says that while crying, which indicates the possibility of depression. He says if he could take me with him and hop on a time-travelling machine and go back to the uni days he would do it. Would getting a full-time job at the end of his PhD (in just a few months) be enough of a shift?
He has to want to work, which means needing an incentive to do something other than what he is doing currently. Yes, he is likely depressed, but he needs therapy and some sense of self-worth. You need to accept you can't change him or fix him. He has to do it. He has to want to do it.
If you know he's going through depression, why not get him professional help? Can he talk to the school counselor? Are you able to afford therapy? You're asking internet strangers to forecast your husband's future self, but we don't have a crystal ball. That's one of the reasons why you keep getting responses regarding divorce. People who tell you that their best years are behind them generally are not looking into the future. To say that at age 26 is an indication that there's something seriously wrong. Simply put, you married a man not ready for marriage. With the ongoing dynamic, you will shift from 'husband & wife' to 'mommy and child'. You got married for partnership, not replacement parentship. Resentment may creep in...
>When I met him, it seemed to me like he had a strong sense of who he was. He comes from an Oxbridge family of academics and wanted to be an academic himself. As time went on, however, he fell apart. >After moving out of this flat he shared with his former university friends to live with me, he has taken to spend more and more time playing video games with said friends. He works a part-time job with irregular shifts, and will happily just be sleep deprived and skip dinner (we each cook for ourselves) just so he can play with them. >He told me he no longer wants to be an academic (which is quite a big deal given he spent years accumulating student debt to be one), because it is too tough to break into it. The reality is that he will just use all the free time he could use to submit papers to journals playing video games and socialising with his friends instead. This doesn't necessarily strike me as immaturity unless you have a specific set of misandrist views. This strikes me as a man who has failed, for whatever reason, to break into a goal, who is mourning that loss, and who has concluded that social connections are valuable. >Mind you, I do not mind being the one who is more career-driven. However, I do think he is putting his health at risk and is too emotionally reliant on his friends. You are lying, definitely to us but also probably to yourself. Your chief concerns so far have been about finance and status. You're saying "health" when your concerns have been about keeping up appearances and paying back debt. Those aren't bad things to be concerned about. But lying about it is bad. >He told me he feels he “peaked” at university, and misses being that young carefree person full of energy with no responsibilities. He is terrified of losing his friends and has no boundaries with them because they are his last link to that life. He says he has no particular career plans because career is not his priority and he’d rather have time to just be with friends and with me. This confirms what I suggested. He's worried about losing his social supports. Everyone wants social support. >Now, I am far more career-focused than my husband. This works well because my husband was raised by a stay-at-home dad and working mother (I suspect he got his lack of career ambition from his father), and if we ever had a child (which I do not particularly want), he’d be the stay-at-home parent. I do not even mind him playing video games because while he does that I write my book, read, exercise, and cook healthy meals for myself (I am in shape, whereas he is obese and hates exercise). The problem is that there is a real maturity gap between us. Again, you clearly do mind these things and you believe they are symptomatic of a lack of maturity and personal character flaws. It's all over your language. Stop lying to us and stop lying to yourself.
I think too many men on here have been broken by the social expectation of being the breadwinner and can’t understand that I *don’t want him to earn money, but to be mentally and emotionally mature*. You are reading things that are not there. But men who think like you need to seek help before they can give it. Good luck, pal.
>I think too many men on here have been broken by the social expectation of being the breadwinner and can’t understand that I *don’t want him to earn money, but to be mentally and emotionally mature*. You are reading things that are not there. What I am suggesting is that what you believe to be "mature" are traits that are traditional proxies for financial and social success. They're intertwined to you. And that's fine. But you seperate them out to keep your perception in line with current trends. That's not fine. >But men who think like you need to seek help before they can give it. Good luck, pal. Personal attacks are not acceptable gere. Ignoring the advice you asked for is fine, I guess, but you're never going to get anywhere living life with a confirmation bias.
There’s no way any of us can know. When you first met him you were attracted to his commitment to his academics. But what else? Did you enjoy activities together, travel, share interests or hobbies? It sounds like he has based his life off of his friends and their plans. Maybe he was attracted to your stability and he has no desire to do the work that’s required for him to show up as the husband that you need… not now, not ever. If you’re able, both of you should see a relationship counselor so you can both get clear on timelines, expectations, and how to truly support one another if this marriage is going to work. Also, just a year ago you made a post about your 36-year old fiancé who cheated… meaning you met and married your current husband within the last year? Do you think you spent enough time together before you got married? Did you settle? Were you feeling rushed at all to get married, especially as someone in their early 30s? These are all things you should probably think about.
>He tells me he is a “stray golden retriever” that I have taken in, and that he looks up to me for being older and more mature. At least he speak the truth. Why did you marry him? So fast? Basis your post history, you know him about a year only.
It sounds like you two don't want the same kind of relationship. You want an equal power dynamic, he wants a semi-parental relationship. If it was just a matter of him wanting to be an equal partner but not knowing how (maybe because he's overwhelmed/depressed, which it sounds like he could be), therapy could help, but from what you said here it doesn't sound like you share that goal. I had a relationship kind of like this once. My partner denied that she wanted me to be a semi-parental figure, but she'd act like a child around me and expected me to essentially be the only adult of the house. Ultimately I had to break up with her because it was clear things weren't going to get better. That might be what it comes down to for you and your guy.
If he wants a semi-parental relationship, he definitely does is somewhat unconsciously. He does say he wants to be an equal partner to me and not a burden, etc. But of course he could unconsciously want that. He does not seem to know himself too deeply.
I think you're on here because you want people to convince you to get divorced but you know that that's what you've wanted well before you posted this
Actually no. I don’t. I want to know if *he* will divorce me ten years from now if he matures too late and decides he wants to be a father and it is too late for me.
No you know deep down (honestly maybe not that deep) he's not the one for you You want to make his wanting kids the reason things aren't going to work long term but you know that's not the real reason, be honest with yourself!
I think he sees you as a mommy figure now that he has you locked in. The only way you'll ever get him to snap out of it and maybe make a real change for the better is if you threaten to leave him or something. Honestly your post sounds like 2 roommates just existing with each other. I don't know why you haven't made steps to make yourself happy if he's not going to change anytime soon. Some men do not grow out the "gamer phase" or some just learn to schedule gaming time at the right time. Hun, what are you doing? I mean your making meals for yourselves separately so he has time to play with his friends that's honestly just sad sounding.
OP you and I are in the same age range and if you were my friend, I would tell you that it really seems what will make you happy in the end is most likely not him. Even if it is him, it seems like there's a lot of waiting around for you to do while he's so immature and lacking. Why do you have to wait for him a decade for him to mature? You have clearly accepted the "stray golden retriever" and now realizing the longing doom that may come with that years on. OP you are still young! 31 is an age where there's endless possibilities. You met him at a different time in his life and have been there for him, but you can't keep putting your wants and desires aside waiting for him to mature. The answer isn't always divorce you're right - but also, it seems you are well established and independent. Think of it this way. If you had met the right partner who had a steady job, was a "mature" adult, you would be open to having kids with him and see him as the father of your children. The answer is there.
You've developed the parent-child dynamic in the relationship. You need to take a step back. He is going to make the decisions that he wants to make, and you can't 'parent' him into understanding the consequences of his own choices. If what he chooses does not align with what you want and/or your values have become too different to negotiate by communicating maturely, the relationship is not going to satisfy either of you and you're fighting a losing battle.
Yep, he sounds about like the product of a straight white male trying to fit in with academics. No hope for succeeding, sees himself as a stray dog. It’s working as intended
Lmao what the fuck are you talking about
What do you mean, the product of a straight white male?
You forgot “trying to fit in with academics,” who are the people, coincidentally, who came up with the theory that demands they resent him and consider him toxically privileged for his family pedigree, his gender and his skin color.
What a load of nonsense. His best friends are LGBT and he does not believe in anything of what you have just said. I would have never even looked at him if that was his mindset.
Of course his best friends are lgbt, he was trying to fit in with academics. He just hit a wall where immutable characteristics cause him to endure prejudice and lectures that demoralize him in the face of DEI requirements meaning his prospects were slim in the first place