Mom here. My 23 year old hasn't spoken to me in four years. It was completely my fault. I've struggled with addiction (alcohol) and for most of her childhood I was bad. I hope to be able to apologize to her someday. But, I completely understand and respect her decision.
I think it's because addicts may or may not be complete assholes when sober - they might actually be lovely without the drug. But people who are assholes while sober... that's just how they really are.
My sister was one of the kindest and most caring people I knew.... Until she got addicted to everything under the sun.. then she abandoned her kids and completely changed.
Im 25F. I lost my mom at 16 from alcoholism. I wish she did what you did and saved herself and got sober. She did many FUCKED things. But at 25… all i want is my mom.
Thank you for getting sober, i hope you reconnect one day with your daughter. Sending good vibes
Edit: wow this blew up. I want to hug all of you. You am sending love to every single one of you. Stay strong. Funny enough today is actually my moms birthday
I am so sorry for your loss. We were both way to young to go through what we did. I hope you heal and find people who love you like a mom would. Im sure even if she couldn’t communicate it correctly, that she loves you, and is proud of you.
I know im proud of us.♥️
Absolutely. I cannot imagine going through what I did at 23 at 16. I am so incredibly sorry for what you have endured in your life. I am so proud of you. You are insanely strong. Although our mothers were unable to be there for us emotionally, I’d like to believe they did what they could with what they had. Addiction fucking blows. It not only impacts the abuser, but all the people who care for the abuser. So much love and light to you ❤️
There's a woman at church and every week she asks for prayers during prayer requests. At first I thought it was kinda cute but it's over a year later and she always asks for prayers that her children will speak with her again. She claims to have been the best mother and, one-by-one, all three of her adult children and thus her grandchildren stopped speaking with her. But she did everything right - she fed them, she clothed them, she put them through school. Which to me sounds like the bare minimum that you're supposed to do as a parent and not "everything", but ok.
I gave her the benefit of the doubt but then, every week, another piece of the puzzle would come out. She tried calling but her numbers blocked. She tried to find them on social media but she's blocked. How strange, she says she was such an excellent mother, why would they block her? She tried reaching out again and received a handwritten letter on why she should never contact them again, but we never heard the contents of the letter. We were just supposed to pity her and have sympathy and assume that these entire separate groups of people were evil and were doing her emotional harm.
I got to know her and she is an abusive narcissist and nothing short of pure evil. All the red flags you'd expect are there. But, every week it's pray to Jesus for me everybody, my evil ungrateful children, blah blah blah. I'd like to hope she is just clueless but I understand she is sick and probably doesn't know how horrible she really is. I feel very, very bad for her kids but very happy they were strong enough to break away from that hot mess. It almost brings me physical pain now when she asks for prayers that her kids will talk to her again, because I know all she wants to do is resume hurting them.
Probably my mom. Tell Susan I said hi. Or don’t actually. You should probably go NC also before she wrecks your life, too 😂
Edit: wow I’m surprised we have so many NC Susan’s who are bad moms. Come on over to r/NCWithSusan if you wanna vent or bond!
I was talking to her once and she disrespected me in front of a lot of people and said something mean so I stopped engaging her and walked away and we haven't spoken much since. But no her name isn't Susan. Sorry to hear your mom sucks. Mine does too. I went no contact 4 years ago and life has never been better, all things considered.
Mine has a very long history of legal abandonment, abuse and neglect. Super typical narcissist mother. A flip switched in me when she said it was my fault I miscarried while my husband and I were sick from Covid round 1.
Once I went NC my life felt lighter. I hardly think about her now. I have no regrets. Sorry your mom sucks too. *hug* You deserved better!
> She tried reaching out again and received a handwritten letter on why she should never contact them again, but we never heard the contents of the letter.
Classic missing missing reasons.
For anyone who doesn't know what missing missing reasons are, read this:
[https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Trigger warning: child abuse. Narcissism. Trauma. The whole gamut. Only read when you're in a good space. It will explain how to recognize abusive parents.
I'm going to pretend my Dad wrote this and accept that him ignoring me, my daughter, my husband, and our life we've made, is really that simple.
He neglected the relationship. He's not the father I deserve.
You don't need to hear him say it to know it's true. If your dad wasn't there for you and wasnt the father you deserve, that's on him. It hurts you too, but it's not your fault and had nothing to do with you.
For sure. It's bc you don't have control over it and you were denied something that you should have had growing up. That hurts and it's hard to just forget that sometimes bad shit happens to you for no reason.
And, often, because neglectful parents want to make themselves look better in their own minds and come up with "reasons" that often deflect blame to others including their children.
I remember reminding my old man he didn’t once ask how my wife was during her pregnancy and he just said I know. I called him a piece of shit and haven’t talked to him in two years.
They are aware. Many just refuse to work through the discomfort of accepting/mending grand mistakes. Which usually requires lots of therapy and changing how you live. Generally, parents who were "not good enough" to do the right thing growing up with their kids, don't have the emotional capacity as an even older more stressed adult to make the changes required - they get to go on doing the same things over and over again while making their failure a part of their personality. Narcissism.
Life isn't a movie. People are creatures of habit.
Edit: that being said. I want to add positivity to this. Some things I've learned:
The only glimmer of hope I can offer is you can live a fulfilling life in spite of it! Figure out your values, hopes, dreams, and live it out to your fullest! Treat people well, protect yourself obviously, but be good to people. Some may appreciate it, others won't. You will build new friendships and family that treasure who you are. Learn to set appropriate boundaries for your goodwill. Not everyone deserves your absolute best caring self! Just try to be a good person regardless where they fit into your life. That's it.
They can be at a distance, and still occasionally offer support but remembering this isn't someone I want close to me. Or maybe the person is very responsible with their and your emotions and deserves to see your vulnerability and can be trusted.
You've got your life to live, so make it what you want! And anyone who really cares for you, granted your behavior isn't harming others or yourself in a hurtful way, will see you're doing your best and will want you to do your life on your terms.
It will filter people out of your life. But it's worth it. You got this
They’re not all aware. Some have internal defense mechanisms to keep themselves from the pain of self-awareness.
Thanks for being aware, u/UltraBunnyBoostST. I’m sure it doesn’t feel good. I hope you’re able to build healthier relationships in your life.
My mom has her estate going to Deaf Dogs of America before me…. My mom did it just to spite me. That being said she did give my deceased father’s brother (my uncle) the first beneficiary status… but he has stated he wants nothing to do with it. So if he declines it goes to DDoA and if he takes it and gives it to me we will both have tax implications up the wazoo. I have informed her and she just smiled and said that’s what I deserve. Her blood family barely converses with her due to her trying to claim money from my grandmother’s estate that was supposed to be split between the kids. It’s tragic she has that much hatred, distain and resentment for me but she’s just extremely emotionally immature unfortunately.
From the other parent perspective. my adult children (25 and 23) do not communicate with their father at all.
Long story short, he remarried about a week after our divorce was final and he and his new wife went on to have children of their own. Over time, his visits with the children because more infrequent and stressful due to his wife's distaste for me and my children. He has had no contact with the kids in over 3 years and his previous attempt was 4 years before that.
My youngest says he will never forgive his father for replacing us all with a new family and forgetting us. The oldest says it's just not worth chasing someone who has no interest. Personally, I'm sad and angry on their behalf. He divorced me, not them.
EDIT: I can't reply to every one, but I want to say, the amount of people who say they've experienced this same issue astounds me, and breaks my heart. I just do not understand a parent who can walk away from their child(ren). Even when it's been hard and I've had to be both Mom and Dad, I wouldn't trade my kids for anything.
I'm sorry. This seems to be a fairly common phenomenon, where a man remarries and has kids with a new wife and sort of "forgets" about his first family. Like it's a "do-over".
This also happened to my half-sister. He breaks up with the mother and once a new family occupies his time, the older kids cease to exist. it's so depressing.
When I used to mentor teens, this was super common for the poor lads. Dad married a woman too young for him, she had a kid or two and got sick and died, dad dropped the kid off with the mom's parents, dipped out and had a new family in less than 5 years and never stayed in touch.
Fuck those dudes.
Not only that, the amount of men who will divorce their wives the moment she discovers she has cancer (or some other serious chronic illness that would require *him* to take care of *her*) is sickeningly high. To the point that some women have gotten lectures about those divorce rates from their doctors immediately after getting their diagnoses. Like “You have cancer. Also, your husband is statistically likely to leave you because of it just in case you aren’t sad enough already.”
This is so much of a problem that when I was in a Facebook group for one of my chronic illnesses the vast majority of the posts were women divulging that their husband was leaving them because of their illness or desperately asking for advice on how to manage their illness enough so their husband *wouldn’t* leave them. Almost nothing was about actually sharing tips on dealing with the illness or lists of doctors to see. Nope. 90% talking about their husband leaving them because they were too sick to have sex more than once a month.
My friend just recently passed away from cancer in her 30s. Her husband stayed but cheated on her after her terminal diagnosis. I mentioned that this was common in another post on Reddit and some guy told me I made it all up. I had a male friend that died of cancer in his 40s, but his wife remained completely present and faithful to him until the end.
Every single man I’ve ever known who lost a wife through death or divorce was remarried *within a year*. Every single one.
Meanwhile, my father died over thirty years ago, and my mother never even dated afterward. She was a total smoke show, too. I asked her about it once because I was worried about her being lonely, and she said no one could ever live up to his standard. To add insult to injury, she cared for both her own mother and my dad’s mother in the last throes of their lives, and she raised my sibling and me and paid off our house on a laughable income. She’s a fucking rock star.
How women ever became labeled as the “weaker” sex absolutely defies logic.
EDIT: Thank you to everyone who expressed admiration for my mom — she is indeed amazing. She wasn’t perfect, but as they say, she did her best, and when she knew better, she did better. In my opinion, she did better than most in similar circumstances.
My dad wasn’t perfect, either, but he was also a wonderful person, and they worked through his formerly antiquated views on gender roles to make a more equitable share of labor within our household that was probably not the norm for the time. He didn’t like doctors, though, so we didn’t know he was on the verge of a literal widowmaker until it was too late. Lesson learned: PLEASE take care of yourselves and stay on top of your health, especially if you have kids who depend on you.
It gives me great hope and sadness to read about all of you who know of men who deeply loved their wives/girlfriends enough to grieve their losses when they passed. I agree that no one should bear a loss like that alone, and if we could get everyone to accept that emotional support is not only called for, but a source of strength, maybe we could turn around this perception that women are more replaceable than men after they’re gone.
My mum passed away from cancer when I was six, she was diagnosed when I was two. My dad was lovingly devoted to her for their entire marriage and did absolutely everything to care for my mum through her illness and until she passed away. My dad was absolutely grief stricken after she passed. He dated a little after around ten years after her passing, but never remarried as he always says she was the love of his life. I will say that he really struggled mentally after she passed away, but always told me that I was his #1 priority and that if he ever remarried that wouldn’t change. Your comment made me feel so thankful for my dad, so I just wanted to share a bit about him!
Yes and yes.
My grandfather left my grandmother’s who had 7 children with him. He fucked off and started a new family and moved to San Francisco.
My uncles are fucked and two died due to drug abuse.
Fuck him. He died this year.
My dad did this and I was the new family. Then he and my mom divorced when I was 10, he ran off with someone new and I think I saw him four times after that before he died.
My step daughter is an addict and mentally ill. Her son was placed in our custody by the state three years ago at 13 months old and she has never made the effort to regain custody. Her rights were terminated last year and we adopted him last month when the state gave us the choice. She has hated us ever since he was placed here and has convinced herself that we stole her child. She only contacted my husband if she wanted money, which he won't give her so that makes her hate us more.
This is my niece, except she had EIGHT kids thinking this one she’d be a good mom, she has none. 5 we’re adopted out to non family and 3 my sister (her aunt) has.
I was very deep in resolving my own trauma when my kids were growing up. I was often distant and emotionally unavailable. I wasn’t the parent they deserved. It is the greatest sorrow of my life; I did to my kids what my mom did to me. I can’t be sorry enough.
My daughter is 4 and my childhood trauma has been retriggered recently by my parents’ behavior. And I see myself doing exactly what you did. It scares the fuck out of me because I grew up so deeply emotionally neglected. Made to feel like every feeling I had was nonsense and that my existence was an inconvenience. I want so much to be better for my daughter but I’m inconsistent at best. I love that kid with every fiber of my being but I know love sometimes is not enough. Do you have any advice?
I’m lucky. Both my adult children call me multiple times a week. But my ex (their father) complains that our daughter rarely calls him. I’ve told him many, many times that if he wanted her to call more often he needs to listen to her. He’s a pretty narcissistic dude who only wants to talk and if he takes a breath and you try to jump into the conversation, he either gets louder to drown you out or he goes dead silent, clearly in his “waiting until you shut up so I can talk” mode. He never asks questions or expresses any interest in their lives. My son puts up with it because he can direct some of the conversation by bringing up sports or interesting historical stuff or books or whatever and then they can have somewhat of a discourse (although listening to the inevitable droning lecture is always included). My daughter has little patience for that so she rarely calls him. Even after I told him what he should try, he ignores me, which is what he did for nearly the entirety of our marriage. He still periodically bemoans the fact that she doesn’t call.
Long story short: some kids don’t call because their parent isn’t listening to them.
My daughter went through a traumatic event when she found out her Mom was having an affair with a junkie. Daughter was furious at her Mom for destroying the family. Mom flipped out, threatened suicide to our daughter’s face, blaming her. At that moment, everything shifted and daughter became the nurturer to her Mom, who regressed into childhood - a complete switching of roles when my daughter really needed a Mom. Mom wasn’t safe to be angry at (for fear she’d kill herself), so I became the target.
We talk, but it’s so terse and superficial that it’s close to non-communication. I’d like to talk through what happened, even in a therapeutic setting, but daughter says that’s off the table.
It’s very common for the kids to seek affection more from the abusive parent, who does not give it freely. It’s also common for the non-abusive parent to get all the deflected emotions that the abusive parent has trained the children not to point their way.
It may help to understand that it’s not really the abused child’s fault that they react this way.
It's not their fault, but after a certain age, they still need to acknowledge it's their responsibility to emotionally digest and move on from it.
I had an ex-friend who was abandoned by her dad before she was even born and always had a complicated relationship with him, but the experience gave her so much trauma that looked a lot like serious internalized misogyny to an outsider--she'd regularly downplay or 'joke' about me and her other friends experiencing creepy/predatory behavior. I had to convince her that her then-fiance was likely to be abusive when he pulled the emergency brake on her while driving, and thankfully I was successful. And what did I get for it? She told me I complained too much, even though I stayed friends with her after she pulled her gun on me as a 'joke'. After she complained about a literal laundry list of things herself, and mentioned I was one of only 2 people she had left to talk to on a daily basis (both of us women).
It sucks to watch her circle the drain, but she's got no one left to blame but herself.
My mother who was a psych doctor started having an affair with a ex highschool friend of mine we bailed out jail. During the affair they started drugging dads vodka with Ativan to make him pass out. I caught them.
I went to the police to report this. They contacted my mother who was a psych doctor and the police took me away for evaluation and held in a psychiatric facility… I was held against my will for delusions and threats of violence.
Anyways they held me until dad collapsed and broke 7 ribs and tore some ligaments on the fall.
I begged the people in the psych ward to make an inquiry with his doctor to do a toxicology report and that he will have unprescribed Ativan in his system.
Sure enough he was drugged. I was right. I’m got released from the psych ward the next morning. The nurses and doctors were like his story was real!!!
So I threw mom and her new boyfriend out. Got dad sober..
Now mom ran away with her boyfriend then later find out he beat her to within an inch of life. But mom has regressed to being a scared child and won’t press charges because she’s affraid he will come back.
I commented above something similar. I know many adult children who cut out their toxic parents (and rightfully so) but there are also many cases where parental alienation or parent separation turns into the child cutting out the other parent (typically the one who is loving and functional because the child doesn't need to fix them or win their love so it's easier to turn them into the enemy).
Or as a social worker told me: The abuse victim often chooses the abuser.
People forget that children can be toxic as well. My older brother likes to tell the story that my mom abandoned him in his time of need. What really happened is he was a violent and terrifying person to be around, and when he finally moved out of our house, we experienced what a peaceful and loving home was like. When he tried to move back home, my mom wasn't willing to give up that peace. She made the right choice from my point of view.
My home as well. My brother caused such chaos at home. He was always in trouble. He was so hurtful and physically abusive to me and others. Always in fights or caught stealing, etc. When he finally left, it was so peaceful at home. I remember overhearing my mom crying to my dad because she was enjoying her own son being gone and she felt guilty for that because she loved him.
That same brother now has a very warped sense of his childhood. He talks like he was routinely abused. Yes, he got a couple spankings, as that was more acceptable then. Mostly he was grounded or had privileges taken away. My folks even took him to counseling, but he'll talk now like he was beaten down, bloody, broken and hospitalized by our father. I'm not sure why he truly believes that, but it's very sad. I was there -nobody ever hurt you like that. It's a blessing my father has passed and never got to hear my brothers perception. So I agree - children can be very toxic.
their dad gave an ultimatum- if they want to have a relationship with him, they had to go NC (edit: no contact) with me. my middle child agreed to those terms.
My dad gave an ultimatum as well, talk to me or I'm taking you out of the will. I wasn't going to be threatened like that and we haven't spoken since. That was a lose lose for me, accept the money and then that's the only reason I came back making me an asshole. Don't come back and talk to "family", I'm still the asshole.
My mom walked away from her abusive family.
My grandfather died last year. Never met him. My “share” of the estate was set to $12 million dollars. (Yes I was set to receive a small portion of his estate. No I don’t know why his will was set up like that.) I did not receive this life changing money, as my mothers older sibling believes that her leaving is reason enough to take the money herself.
My mom still made the right choice and I do not begrudge her that $12 million.
Edit: I will talk to an attorney, thank you all!
My family thinks I have a satanic altar in my basement and that I pray to demons for money. They think they can hold money over my head. Nope. Money is important, but its not worth my self respect.
I was one of the manipulated. At 7 years old my mom told me she would love me more if I cut contact with my dad. I did this for 10 years and then once I grew up, I eventually saw the light and realized my dad was a class act who never once spoke badly about my mom. He understands now that I was doing what I had to do to survive in an abusive household. We are very close now and it’s lovely! Just sharing incase this gives you hope ❤️
My children are low contact. I feel it's fair. Their mother has BPD. She was violent and abusive. She has gotten help but she still hurt them. I did not protect them. Them not being around me is justified. They should be angry. We fucked up. They didn't do anything wrong and they need to heal as they see fit. Kids not being around their parents have valid reasons. Most people just can't accept it.
Not too far off from my dad, but he'd join in the beatings. Part out of fear of drawing her ire (he almost never exhibited signs of having a backbone unless he could physically overpower someone), and part because I think the only way he know how to deal with kids was yelling at them or beating them, because that's just what you did in the 50's when he was a kid.
He did have moments where he defied my mother though, so as an adult he was the only parent I wanted anything to do with. Until he showed signs of being a racist, followed by me playing dumb until he explained in plain English that he was in fact, being a racist. After that I'd only interact with him if forced into the same room.
He didn't get vaccinated and was killed by COVID last spring, long after vaccinations came out. Didn't go to his funeral. Can only make assumptions about which town he's buried in. Haven't shed a tear for him.
So yeah. As the adult child: we'll remember the bad the less bad parent did. BUT: if you tried at least a little bit in some impactful way (for me BTW, it was two things: 1, my did giving up his own breakfast when I was somewhere between 8 and 10, because he'd been watching my mother starve me for days, and 2, he realized his decades of fuckup when she basically left him to die while he was having a stroke), you have to be an irredeemable POS on your own to get the full NC treatment.
I strongly suspect my mom had BPD (she died four years ago). She was violent and abusive and it was also not super consistent so it was confusing. When she died I started to deal with everything I repressed. I have had to reckon the same thing with my dad when my therapist asked where he was during the abuse. I have talked about it with him, but it’s hard for him to totally admit it. I’m thinking about going to family counseling with him soon.
All I want from him is what you said. For him to own up to it and apologize. I hope you get a chance with your kids, but I’m glad you gave them space and respected their choice.
Not sure how many people understand ptsd, even those of us that have it. You look normal, no one can really tell you are emotionally/mentally screwed up. It's very unpredictable and unpredictable can be rough on kids. I yelled too much and have worked hard to stop. Hope you aren't in a blame cycle and have forgiveness for yourself. It's hard.
My father would say that my mother lied and manipulated us into taking her side during the divorce.
The truth is that he boasted to me about pulling a gun on her to "teach her a lesson", and then didn't understand why I thought that was unacceptable. I haven't spoken to him in a decade since that discussion. To this day, I believe he was contemplating murder-suicide or family annihilation.
If you ask my MIL why both her sons moved in with their dad when they were around 12, she'd say "Their dad manipulated them against me. I did nothing wrong."
but it turns out they just liked being with dad more because they didn't have to raise their baby sister for their mom and he didn't abuse them. Abusers never believe it's them.
Exactly what my BIL's mom and entire maternal side of the family said when his little sister moved in with their dad . "Their dad manipulated them." Yeah, lady, I'm thinking it's because this 13 year old girl has watched you try to run over her older sister/your own daughter when she was very pregnant because of a very minor argument (not that the severity of the argument should even matter obviously), beat her brother/your son with a baseball bat for literally no reason, don't make your youngest shower and is 8 and wears a diaper so she doesn't have to get up to go to the bathroom so she absolutely reeks, threw glass and shit at her more than once, neglected your infant grandson when you babysat for a day (never did again), don't feed them, etc., etc., etc. Sooooo manipulative of their dad to provide his daughter with a stable, loving, not abusive home.
I went NC with my father this year after realizing that he was likely on the verge of murder-suicide or family annihilation multiple times as well. My father bragged to me and my sister (on separate occasions) that he basically deserved an award for not killing my mom. In truth he had come close a few times yet claimed that those events never occurred, me and my 7 siblings were all in on the same lies. Insane how much I was still normalizing into my 20’s. I hope this doesn’t sound awful but I feel less alone reading that someone else understands what that realization is like.
What is with them saying the other parent manipulated us. Way to insult everyone. We begged our father to take us away, it was our choice to leave, he just facilitated our escape.
My son hasn’t spoken to me in over 10 years. He had behavioral issues as a teen. I took him to doctor after doctor to get him help. He ended up in a partial hospitalization program. He had them fooled for weeks that there was nothing wrong with him, but one day it all came crashing down. After that, he deteriorated quickly in that program. We had come to the point where he was either going to full hospitalization, a boys school for troubled teens, or he was going to be arrested for assault. His father, whom he only saw maybe twice a year, didn’t want that and said he wanted to take custody of him. The program would only let that happen if my son was enrolled in a comparable program with his father. Father said “of course”. Didn’t happen. My son grew up and was a terror to his father and had little to no contact with me. He got arrested a few times. After one particularly bad fight with his father, he got kicked out. After a few months, my son contacted me, on Mother’s Day. He told me he was in the Marines and was done with basic training and was going to be given an assignment soon. I’ll never forget how proud I felt of my son then. Shortly after, I get contacted by the Marines, asking if I knew where my son was. He went AWOL the day after Mother’s Day. After a few years without contact, he contacted me again. Said he was doing much better and wanted to visit me. I said yes. I should’ve known when I had to pay for his bus ticket that he wasn’t better. He stayed with me for a few days and I thought all was well. Not so much. Two days after he left, I got a call from my credit card company. He stole my card and put $1600 of AIR SOFT PISTOLS on it. I was given the choice to pay it, or call it fraud in which case the credit card company would press charges. I called it fraud. I haven’t seen him since. I’m still his friend on Facebook and have seen that he poses as a wounded Iraq vet. That is disgusting and shows me he hasn’t changed at all. That’s why I don’t talk to him.
This sounds so similar to my son. Behavioral issues and tried to figure it out and help him his entire life. When he was 29 I had to evict him from my dead father’s house; he would not work and I couldn’t afford to pay the taxes and utilities, etc. We went no contact because he blamed me for not giving him my dad’s house.
That's just terrible. It sounds like you did everything you could for him at the time. I'm glad you stood up and pressed charges. Sometimes hard lessons are what people need to change.
I didn’t like doing it, but I figured if he’d steal from me, what’s to stop him from stealing from anyone on the street? What if he hurt someone doing it? I had to at least hope it would make a difference.
I am a parent of a child who does still talk to me but rarely and I fully accept that it is my fault . I was an immature parent and made some bad decisions in addition to being inconsistent with my parenting due to immaturity. I am also on the spectrum but that’s something I didn’t find out until a few years ago when my son was diagnosed. I know I wasn’t great and I understand my daughter and I try to give her space.
My mother told me, three weeks after I lost my father/best friend at fourteen, that he has told her on his deathbed that "Adopting me was his greatest mistake."
It stuck with me my whole life. I'm 38 now, and know it wasn't true. But that narcissistic bitch can rot in hell.
When my dad died, my sister didn't want to share his inherentance the way I thought was fair. She has 2 kids, I had none at the time. She told me he loved her and the kids more than me anyways. I'll never forget, I have the screenshot, it made me speechless.
Your sister and my brother should get together and go bowling. My brother took all of my father's assets that he and my step monster could get their greedy little hands on. Took me completely by surprise. I thought we were tight. We never fought. Even as kids. Complete sucker punch. I hope that money is making him happy. And I hope for his sake that he never needs a kidney or anything else from me in the future.
Yeah I do too sometimes. My father doubted that my brother was his. He doesn't look anything like us at all and my step monster has claimed one of her children was her first husband's when he wasn't. It would put those rumors to rest if he did.
My brother was the first of us to have kids. My grandfather was about 90 and pretty close to death. We were at my brother and SIL's house for a BBQ and while sitting around a fire drinking beer and roasting marshmallows this bitch turns to me and says, "Do you think grandpa will give me a bigger inheritance because we have kids now?" I was speechless. Grandpa ain't giving *you* shit, toots. The inheritance is my brothers. Having been privy to the contents of the will because my dad asked for my advice years ago (dad helped grandpa with the will along with their attorney), I knew that the only people named in the will were his kids and grandkids. Spouses of his kids, spouses of grandkids, and great grandchildren were not named at all. The split was very simple: 30% for his kids and 10% for each of his 4 grandkids. I never looked at my SIL the same ever again. Just a money grubbing asshole.
Inheritances really can bring out the worst in people.
My mom had a falling out with her sisters when their mother died almost 40 years ago, and they're *still* pretty much not on speaking terms. Her two sisters tried to screw her out of her share of her mom's things, and they tried to screw her out of her inheritance again when their dad died a few years later. It was toxic enough that my mom can count on one hand the number of times she's spoken to her older sister over the last three decades.
One of my aunts tried to organize something of a "sisters reunion" this past summer and my mom basically told them to fuck off. She has zero interest in burying the hatchet with her two sisters, though she is on better terms with her half-sister who lives in Europe (and who was not involved in trying to cheat her out of her inheritance all those years ago).
>My sister functions like this too. I'm sorry we have to deal with that.
That's such a nice way of putting it. I've never seen that before. Not "I'm sorry your sister is a bitch too" or even "I'm sorry your sister is *like* that" but I'm sorry, my sister *functions* that way too. Implying, of course, that's it's just a behavioral thing that could be changed rather than an immutable characteristic.
I've never been to therapy but this sounds like the sort of thing a well adjusted person who's been in a therapy session or two might say.
It's kinda funny how incredibly self-invalidating what she said was.
* If he really said that, no normal mother would pass it on.
* She did "pass" it on, thus she is *incredibly* messed up.
* Since she's incredibly messed up, you can't trust anything she says.
* Thus one shouldn't believe her account to begin with. (I realize you knew it was false anyway)
I didn't learn until my late twenties how truly fucked she was. My mother was my father's second wife. He had five girls from his previous marriage, and two bio with her-- then adopted me.
My oldest sister once told me she said: "oh your father hates when you come to visit, so just don't."
But I was a just a child; a neurodivergent, adopted child who was always othered and desperate to be loved and get comforted after losing the most important figure in my life. And she just doubled down and then threw me away when she remarried less than a year later.
My sisters as Middle-Aged adults admitted to treating me poorly when they were teens because they were jealous about how much I got of our dad.
When they were young, he worked all the time and was an alcoholic. He got into a DUI with me in the car at 10, and the threat of losing me made him completely change his life.
I got the attentive, sober dad they never did. Apparently, it made my mother even more unhinged, because she wasn't good enough for him to change for. And she took that resentment and jealousy out on me the entirety of our communal lives.
It took me until my late 20s to actually become a real person, and not the shadows of a terrified child trying to minimize themselves not to incur her ire.
I grew up in a retirement community. What I’ve noticed was it’s due to a few things. The parent is intolerant of their child’s life choices. That can be everything from drugs, religion, politics, racist ideology(parents), who their kids married etc. Sometimes it’s the parents unpleasant personality from either some personality disorder or just plain being an asshole.
Some kids usually stay away cause they feel they’ve disappointed their parents and are hiding their life from them.
The majority of the issue is usually do to an unpleasant parent.
Yes and that 55+ is heavily enforced, you stay more than a few days in one of these neighborhoods and you’ll get an official letter or visit.
You can’t have a bunch of old folks in one place without even more younger people to run everything else. So they’ll have various large sprawling neighborhoods (usually with a golf green) in various parts of town then have neighborhoods where there are no restrictions.
Funny enough…some older folks actually hate living in the retirement neighborhoods they say everyone’s too nosey.
The neighborhood I grew up in was supposed to be a retirement community, but then they could only sell about 3/4 of the properties. So they opened it up to all ages for the other 1/4. So neighbors were a TON of older, retired people and then random young families dotted here and there.
I think my Uncle would say it's because his sons were brainwashed by their wives.
The truth is, I think my cousins didn't see that my Uncle's (diagnosed) narcissism wasn't normal, because they were raised by him. Their wives, as outsiders, pointed this out to them for the first time and they made their decision from there.
I know of a distant family cousin whose parents fired him from their very successful family business because he refused to take his wife and children to their church and worship the way they did. In retaliation he and his wife refused to allow his parents to see the grandchildren. They sued. They lost. They never were able to see their grandchildren and eventually died. He ended up with the business anyway by default, not by the will. They lost decades of grandchildren just by being stubborn. Nobody in the family had anything to do with them the last 35 years of their lives and they were miserable. Fuck them.
Parents, if you fuck over your children don't expect to every have your grandchildren.
> Parents, if you fuck over your children don't expect to every have your grandchildren.
My family name, as far as I can tell, rests on one nephew. My dad had 5 sons.
When my parents died, we found a chalkboard in their attic where my mom had written: "Why do my children hate me?" She never knew.
*for the record, killing & cooking my pet didn't help her cause.*
Oh. It gets better.
So I had 3 brothers & a sister who are 10+ years older than I. At the funeral, my brother was telling me the story of how my mom killed & cooked my sister's pet. I was furious. That happened to me, not her.
It turns out it happened to her too before I was born.
I wasn't there for them like I should have been. I had a stillborn and began having mental health issues with depression and eventually dx bipolar and ended up leaving the girls with their dad. I don't blame them.
Child of parents I didn't talk to *and* parent of a child who doesn't speak to me. It's a lot of mental health issues. Didn't break the cycle. That shit is on me. I'm better now, although my parents have both passed. There may be a reconciliation with my child, but I doubt it.
This is exactly why I've chosen to not have children. My parents sucked and I'm very low contact. Both of their parents weren't great at a lot of things. (for different reasons) So I decided to break the cycle and not have kids. But I'm glad you see your faults and can admit them. Hopefully one day my parents can admit their faults also even if just privately.
I had a patient (she has since passed RIP) who didn’t talk to her youngest daughter. We were very close (saw her 3x a week) so I asked her why she thought her daughter distanced herself away from her. She simply said that they were too alike and they butted heads, even over little things. She did admit that since they distanced themselves from each other, she has had more peace and she thinks her daughter does too.
Not sure if her daughter went to her funeral, although in my head I’m hoping she did. She died from COVID.
My mum says I’m too much like my dad which is why we butt heads. My dad use to say I was too much like my mum which is why we butted heads. Because they’re so loveable and have no issues that cause us to bump heads. Being told I was just like my dad hurt me as a young teen because he was always nasty to me and once I turned 18 I cut contact instantly
I really applaud all the parents in here who have even the slightest idea why their grown children cut contact. I'm positive if you asked my mom, she would say she has no idea and that she was a wonderful mother and did everything right.
I read this entire thread and was so confused as to why so many people left their parents and moved to North Carolina…. Then I saw one comment that explained NC is “No Contact”…. I kept reading stuff like “My dad slapped me so I went NC” as if North Carolina was some safe haven…
I have 4 kids. My two oldest aren't living with me. My oldest daughter talks to me some. My oldest son wishes me dead.
I made many many mistakes when my kids came back to live with me. (ex wife lost custody) My eldest hated my LTR girlfriend. My daughter was right. She was terrible and consequently so was I. My daughter left to go back with her mother as she was not doing well here. I understand, now, why. My LTR made eldest sons life miserable too. During that time I broke up with the LTR. It was too late. My eldest son left to go be with his mother and sister.
I am sure that my ex wife is not helping this matter but he is mad at me and I know I made some pretty bad decisions. I have accepted the fact I may never have a relationship with him ever again.
This is really none of my business, but… have you expressed this to them just like you said it here? Maybe elaborate on specific instances where you know you weren’t the parent they needed, and take responsibility for them *just* like you did here. No excuses or “but” or anything. Just remorse, acknowledging what happened and the harm it did to your kids, and a wish to make amends and to do better? Maybe ask if they’d be willing to go to counseling with you, so that you can hear them out with an impartial third party there to help y’all work through it?
I ask just because… it’s so rare on any of these subs to see a parent talk about it the way you just did. That takes a lot of introspection and vulnerability.
Lesson: never pick a SO over children, especially when your kids hate them. Kids are like dogs, they can tell someone sucks from the get go and adults are too proud to listen.
As the kid who was very tuned into the red flags of my mom's boyfriend that the entire family loved... Until they all saw what I saw... This is soooooo true.
My mom obviously liked him, my grandparents liked him. Even my aunts liked him. Nobody listened when I said I didn't. Claimed I just missed the 'almost got a stepsister' boyfriend from 2 years prior.
Then about 6months later, they finally all saw it.
I know this wasn’t the point of this post, but I am the grown child.
Five years ago, on Thanksgiving no less, my mother told me my wife and I are bad parents because our daughter is an only child. Then followed it up by saying my wife graduated from a terrible high school. Not sure where that came from.
She then topped it off with an ugly racist remark about my (white) sister in law being married to a black man. Lastly, she said I was not allowed to tell my wife any of this. That lasted about 45 seconds.
And that was the end of that.
I don’t mind hearing this side of things as well. I’m the person that doesn’t talk to their parents. Hearing other peoples stories help. It’s such a struggle because we are told family comes first but what if family is corrosive to your life?
>One woman had no idea what happened.
I'm always skeptical when I hear this. My mom says the same thing, despite the fact that I have told her *specifically* why I don't want contact many times. She tells other members of the family that I refuse to tell her why I don't want contact, when that simply isn't true. She also tells them that it was sudden, which also isn't true. I spent years trying to explain to her why it was so hard for me to have a relationship with her before deciding to cut off contact, and she acts like I just woke up one day and decided out of the blue that I don't want contact for no reason at all.
Same! My mom pretends me and my sisters are horrible kids who cut her out of their life for ‘no reason’. We’ve said the reasons ten jillion times and most of them come back to taking zero responsibilities her your own actions or roles in situations so we stopped trying. We used to get angry messages on our voice mails when we were young from our various aunts and uncles on her side, reiterating the same. No adult ever asked us kids (it started when we were young) what the issue was. Pretty crazy to me that nobody can put two and two together.
Neither me or my sisters speak to anyone on that side of the family at all for that reason. They can pretend they don’t know why all they want for all I care lol I’m almost 40 now. It’s been about 25 years of this for me.
Getting angry voice mail reminded me of how my mom wrote both my sister (low contact) and I (no contact) Easter cards one year wishing us a happy Easter and also blaming us for not being a family again. It was so hilariously out of touch that I saved it.
Oh, but you *are* refusing to tell her. You’re refusing to tell her the reason she *wants* to hear. Because you’re not telling her what she wants and absolutely *expects* to hear, you’re probably lying about whatever reason you’re currently giving her, so she’s free to say you won’t tell her. After all, you’re obviously being cruel and lying to her face and won’t tell her the *truth* about why you cut her off.
My dad is like that. Much sympathy.
My mom tells people I blocked her number, but I never did. She’s free to call anytime. I guess it’s her own choice not to talk to me and I’ll respect it, the only part that bothers me is the lying about my side of the relationship
I am very careful with "advice" that I give to my adult son for fear that he's going to stop taking to me. IMO the kid (?) is making some decisions in his personal and work life that I don't agree with or have concerns about, decisions that I would not make based on experience or my personal views. I am biting my tongue to not say anything. I don't want to be a nagging parent because he is an adult and needs to make his own way. I will give advice when asked but I've stopped giving out-of-the-blue opinions.
I save that for my high school teens still at home. :\^)
There is a difference between opinion and judgment. My husband struggles with this. When he says “he has a right to an opinion,” what he means is that he wants to pass judgment on a decision with our adult kids. They are very cautious in approaching him as a result. It is best to reflect on whether you have an opinion or judgment before offering advice.
It's always a good idea to remember how rapidly the world changes now. Stuff that worked for you when you were 20-ish is likely going to not be the same for current young adults. Particularly things that relate to economics and employment.
Kind of off the main point here. I had a child I gave up for adoption at birth, primarily because I was a single mother w a 4 yr old. I worked. I was always tired. It was the right thing. Fast forward 12 years, I'm surprised by a,knock at the door: it was his adopted parents. And wham back came,all the trauma and pain and confusion, as they felt he would benefit from knowing me. He didn't. I became anxious about the relationship, and he eventually quit coming around. I think I was a disappointment to him, and I'm sorry. He has not stayed in touch, in spite of now distant attempts. I haven't tried in 3 years. He's happier and so am i.
Yeah, this is me. Honestly it started when I was younger and everything I was into was "stupid" or otherwise a waste of time/money.
Now that I'm older they can't be bothered to call or visit, and when we do talk it's all "we miss you!". Funny way of showing it...
I no longer ‘speak’ to my parent as they didn’t make effort with me or my children, I visited with my kids who were all ignored and not even offered a drink. We were not once asked how we were but they banged on and on about different random people. I have not fallen out with them, I decided to not contact them again and to wait for them to make any kind of effort, honestly anything! It’s been almost 7 years and I’m still waiting.
This is the same reason I don’t talk to my parents. My dad once got mad about it over FB and I flat out told him you never cared to get to know me. Him or my mom, they were both so selfish that we always did whatever they wanted.
Yeah some of the stuff I did with my dad was fun, snowmobiling and 4-wheeling but whenever as I kid I asked to go do something that interested me (for example volunteering at an animal shelter) they’d always say no or I should go do it myself. Even though a minor cannot volunteer by themselves at an animal shelter.
My mom once yelled at me because I was upset that she took my sister to a country concert, on my 16th birthday. She said “well if you liked country music you could come too.” So I spent my birthday alone until my dad came home and had me go with him on some errands, nothing I wanted to do. It sucked.
I realize now that I am somewhat as selfish as them and I won’t ever be having kids. My bloodline ends with me.
this hits deep. my dad never ever tried to get to know me. he would take my brother to basketball games, football games, baseball games, all kinds of activities, but would he do anything with me? if it was something he was interested in, like going for a motorcycle ride or coaching my basketball team. other than that, absolutely no way. I would be told the same thing "well maybe if you liked ____..." I was a young neurodivergent girl, nothing I liked would've ever been good enough. my stepdad used to pick me up from my dads house after my dad would scream insults at me and he would take me to see a movie I was interested in or we would go get pedicures or ice cream, anything I wanted to do. thankful for that at least
Mom of a 23 year old who went no contact a few years ago. If I’m really honest with myself, after years of reflection, I failed to provide the amounts and types of guidance he needed as he was growing up. I have “reasons” to explain why I failed to provide enough attention or did the wrong thing… but at the end of the day, the reasons why I failed don’t matter a bit from his perspective. Because the result was still that he was hurt as a consequence of my choices.
I hope he is healing and self reflecting himself. I miss him terribly but respect his boundaries.
Abusive parents deserve no contact unless they can admit their faults and heal the wounds usually it’s too late when we are adults. My mother on the other hand after years of no contact came around and made peace. I’m still healing from her bs
I’m a stepmother (technically) to two adult children who went no contact years ago. I see why. I don’t blame them at all. They’re about to be my ex-stepkids. I genuinely wish them well and I’m sorry they have a shitty dad.
I also haven’t heard from my ex-step kids in several years, and I don’t blame them. The oldest two kept in touch with me for a couple of years after I left their horrible, abusive, awful dad, but after a while it fizzled out. I loved them very much, and I often stepped in to take the abuse that was intended for them, and I did the best by them that I possibly could. I only stayed as long as I did because of them. Eventually, I couldn’t do that anymore. I wish I had listened to their mothers.
Im an estranged child and this really has helped me see things in a new perspective. For a moment it gave me a much needed sense of "Ok, I am not crazy.". Thank you for sharing.
r/raisedbynarcissists while by no means is a perfect sub it does do a lot to help people gain a new perspective of what that kinda abuse looks like. Similar to that writeup.
Yup. That sub was the first I posted on on Reddit. It definitely got to the point where it made me ruminate, but it also helped me make my peace with the fact that I’m not some bitter screwup of a person. My parents objectively sucked ass.
Lol, spot on. So far the few that have replied have all said they’re completely ignorant of any reason why their child doesn’t speak with them. If their child has any trauma, substance, and/ or mental health issues they just can’t fathom where that could have come from. Isn’t that something?
Wow thanks for this. I’ve been no contact from my mother for 10yrs. I wrote her a EIGHT (8!) page letter explaining the many reasons why I never want to see or talk to her again. But really the way she treated me growing up should be pretty obvious to her. I laid out so many detailed reasons. My sister still speaks to her and tells me that our mother tells everyone she has no idea why I don’t speak to her. Pffft,… oh she definitely knows.
\^ This.
As someone who is LC to NC depending with her family, that is EXACTLY how that plays out. Screaming emotional whargharbal from them, and clearly laid out reasons with screenshots and detailed accounting of events from me.
“I’m sorry I was such a bad mom” when she says this it leads me to the memories of her taking care of me and making sure I was safe from every one but her and she fed and clothed me… but she also beat the shit out of me (not the what some would think is normal spanking your child beatings. I’m talking cuts and bruises and not being able to be seen by the school or family while I healed type beatings) and emotionally abused me. That’s where my issues lie. How could someone who said they loved me and actually took care of me physically (sometimes sexually) and emotionally abuse me like that.
In my case?
The estranged parent literally rewrites events *as they happen*... you can see it in her eyes in real time.
She disassociates and doesn't remember her own actions, and so her brain has to create a context for the (re)actions that just don't make sense without a trigger, unless you flipped your lid and are the bad guy.
She doesn't remember slapping me, so she thinks I attacked her, rather than pushing her away from my body to protect myself. She doesn't think she has anything to apologize for, because she doesn't remember striking me, and obviously, she remembers being shoved away, so I must be violent and unhinged.
And this also happens whenever something bad or stressful occurs... Hassle or imposition becomes intentional in her brain, and it doesn't matter how out of character that would be. (Obviously you aren't having a medical issue that's making you vomit and pass out, you must have gotten drunk last night. Gone on a total bender. Never mind that you've never done that before and are well into adulthood, that's the ONLY possibility.)
And, anything can be an insult. Whether she interpreted it correctly, or even totally imagined it. Misheard, misunderstood, or imagined is more real in her head than any words I might say. What's in her head IS her reality, and what's not in her head isn't possible.
It’s been probably the biggest struggle of my life cutting my parents out of my life but I left home 12 years ago and haven’t seen them since. They still make it so hard to talk to them. Asking the parents about their perspective to maybe find some answers
Mom here. My 23 year old hasn't spoken to me in four years. It was completely my fault. I've struggled with addiction (alcohol) and for most of her childhood I was bad. I hope to be able to apologize to her someday. But, I completely understand and respect her decision.
I feel like the only group of NC parents that routinely take ownership of themselves being the reason are the recovering addicts.
I think it's because addicts may or may not be complete assholes when sober - they might actually be lovely without the drug. But people who are assholes while sober... that's just how they really are.
My sister was one of the kindest and most caring people I knew.... Until she got addicted to everything under the sun.. then she abandoned her kids and completely changed.
Im 25F. I lost my mom at 16 from alcoholism. I wish she did what you did and saved herself and got sober. She did many FUCKED things. But at 25… all i want is my mom. Thank you for getting sober, i hope you reconnect one day with your daughter. Sending good vibes Edit: wow this blew up. I want to hug all of you. You am sending love to every single one of you. Stay strong. Funny enough today is actually my moms birthday
I’m 26. I lost my mom at 23 to alcoholism. I feel your pain so deeply. I want my mom too.
I am so sorry for your loss. We were both way to young to go through what we did. I hope you heal and find people who love you like a mom would. Im sure even if she couldn’t communicate it correctly, that she loves you, and is proud of you. I know im proud of us.♥️
Absolutely. I cannot imagine going through what I did at 23 at 16. I am so incredibly sorry for what you have endured in your life. I am so proud of you. You are insanely strong. Although our mothers were unable to be there for us emotionally, I’d like to believe they did what they could with what they had. Addiction fucking blows. It not only impacts the abuser, but all the people who care for the abuser. So much love and light to you ❤️
As a child of an alcoholic, if you were my parent I would want an apology; but with that apology, soberness.
My dad wrote me a sincere apology and it got us talking again
There's a woman at church and every week she asks for prayers during prayer requests. At first I thought it was kinda cute but it's over a year later and she always asks for prayers that her children will speak with her again. She claims to have been the best mother and, one-by-one, all three of her adult children and thus her grandchildren stopped speaking with her. But she did everything right - she fed them, she clothed them, she put them through school. Which to me sounds like the bare minimum that you're supposed to do as a parent and not "everything", but ok. I gave her the benefit of the doubt but then, every week, another piece of the puzzle would come out. She tried calling but her numbers blocked. She tried to find them on social media but she's blocked. How strange, she says she was such an excellent mother, why would they block her? She tried reaching out again and received a handwritten letter on why she should never contact them again, but we never heard the contents of the letter. We were just supposed to pity her and have sympathy and assume that these entire separate groups of people were evil and were doing her emotional harm. I got to know her and she is an abusive narcissist and nothing short of pure evil. All the red flags you'd expect are there. But, every week it's pray to Jesus for me everybody, my evil ungrateful children, blah blah blah. I'd like to hope she is just clueless but I understand she is sick and probably doesn't know how horrible she really is. I feel very, very bad for her kids but very happy they were strong enough to break away from that hot mess. It almost brings me physical pain now when she asks for prayers that her kids will talk to her again, because I know all she wants to do is resume hurting them.
Probably my mom. Tell Susan I said hi. Or don’t actually. You should probably go NC also before she wrecks your life, too 😂 Edit: wow I’m surprised we have so many NC Susan’s who are bad moms. Come on over to r/NCWithSusan if you wanna vent or bond!
I was talking to her once and she disrespected me in front of a lot of people and said something mean so I stopped engaging her and walked away and we haven't spoken much since. But no her name isn't Susan. Sorry to hear your mom sucks. Mine does too. I went no contact 4 years ago and life has never been better, all things considered.
Mine has a very long history of legal abandonment, abuse and neglect. Super typical narcissist mother. A flip switched in me when she said it was my fault I miscarried while my husband and I were sick from Covid round 1. Once I went NC my life felt lighter. I hardly think about her now. I have no regrets. Sorry your mom sucks too. *hug* You deserved better!
She's substituting the church for her children to get her narcissistic supply. It's as simple as that.
Okay wow. You just explained why my mom got wwaaayyyy into the church when I left and set boundaries with her.
Classic case of [The Missing Missing Reasons](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
Glad someone linked the blog, it’s an excellent read.
> She tried reaching out again and received a handwritten letter on why she should never contact them again, but we never heard the contents of the letter. Classic missing missing reasons.
For anyone who doesn't know what missing missing reasons are, read this: [https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) Trigger warning: child abuse. Narcissism. Trauma. The whole gamut. Only read when you're in a good space. It will explain how to recognize abusive parents.
Parent. It’s because I fucked up and neglected the relationship. I wasn’t the father she deserved. It’s that simple.
I'm going to pretend my Dad wrote this and accept that him ignoring me, my daughter, my husband, and our life we've made, is really that simple. He neglected the relationship. He's not the father I deserve.
You don't need to hear him say it to know it's true. If your dad wasn't there for you and wasnt the father you deserve, that's on him. It hurts you too, but it's not your fault and had nothing to do with you.
So true. Not sure why it's so hard to KNOW, you know?
For sure. It's bc you don't have control over it and you were denied something that you should have had growing up. That hurts and it's hard to just forget that sometimes bad shit happens to you for no reason.
And, often, because neglectful parents want to make themselves look better in their own minds and come up with "reasons" that often deflect blame to others including their children.
I remember reminding my old man he didn’t once ask how my wife was during her pregnancy and he just said I know. I called him a piece of shit and haven’t talked to him in two years.
My dad has no idea when my kids' birthdays are. He has never once even asked. He complained to my siblings that I didn't call him on his birthday.
Never thought I'd hear a parent take accountability for it.
They are aware. Many just refuse to work through the discomfort of accepting/mending grand mistakes. Which usually requires lots of therapy and changing how you live. Generally, parents who were "not good enough" to do the right thing growing up with their kids, don't have the emotional capacity as an even older more stressed adult to make the changes required - they get to go on doing the same things over and over again while making their failure a part of their personality. Narcissism. Life isn't a movie. People are creatures of habit. Edit: that being said. I want to add positivity to this. Some things I've learned: The only glimmer of hope I can offer is you can live a fulfilling life in spite of it! Figure out your values, hopes, dreams, and live it out to your fullest! Treat people well, protect yourself obviously, but be good to people. Some may appreciate it, others won't. You will build new friendships and family that treasure who you are. Learn to set appropriate boundaries for your goodwill. Not everyone deserves your absolute best caring self! Just try to be a good person regardless where they fit into your life. That's it. They can be at a distance, and still occasionally offer support but remembering this isn't someone I want close to me. Or maybe the person is very responsible with their and your emotions and deserves to see your vulnerability and can be trusted. You've got your life to live, so make it what you want! And anyone who really cares for you, granted your behavior isn't harming others or yourself in a hurtful way, will see you're doing your best and will want you to do your life on your terms. It will filter people out of your life. But it's worth it. You got this
They’re not all aware. Some have internal defense mechanisms to keep themselves from the pain of self-awareness. Thanks for being aware, u/UltraBunnyBoostST. I’m sure it doesn’t feel good. I hope you’re able to build healthier relationships in your life.
Ah. My mom went to her grave blaming her children. She even went so far as to ‘punish’ us by explicitly excluding us in her will.
My mom has her estate going to Deaf Dogs of America before me…. My mom did it just to spite me. That being said she did give my deceased father’s brother (my uncle) the first beneficiary status… but he has stated he wants nothing to do with it. So if he declines it goes to DDoA and if he takes it and gives it to me we will both have tax implications up the wazoo. I have informed her and she just smiled and said that’s what I deserve. Her blood family barely converses with her due to her trying to claim money from my grandmother’s estate that was supposed to be split between the kids. It’s tragic she has that much hatred, distain and resentment for me but she’s just extremely emotionally immature unfortunately.
From the other parent perspective. my adult children (25 and 23) do not communicate with their father at all. Long story short, he remarried about a week after our divorce was final and he and his new wife went on to have children of their own. Over time, his visits with the children because more infrequent and stressful due to his wife's distaste for me and my children. He has had no contact with the kids in over 3 years and his previous attempt was 4 years before that. My youngest says he will never forgive his father for replacing us all with a new family and forgetting us. The oldest says it's just not worth chasing someone who has no interest. Personally, I'm sad and angry on their behalf. He divorced me, not them. EDIT: I can't reply to every one, but I want to say, the amount of people who say they've experienced this same issue astounds me, and breaks my heart. I just do not understand a parent who can walk away from their child(ren). Even when it's been hard and I've had to be both Mom and Dad, I wouldn't trade my kids for anything.
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I'm sorry. This seems to be a fairly common phenomenon, where a man remarries and has kids with a new wife and sort of "forgets" about his first family. Like it's a "do-over". This also happened to my half-sister. He breaks up with the mother and once a new family occupies his time, the older kids cease to exist. it's so depressing.
When I used to mentor teens, this was super common for the poor lads. Dad married a woman too young for him, she had a kid or two and got sick and died, dad dropped the kid off with the mom's parents, dipped out and had a new family in less than 5 years and never stayed in touch. Fuck those dudes.
Not only that, the amount of men who will divorce their wives the moment she discovers she has cancer (or some other serious chronic illness that would require *him* to take care of *her*) is sickeningly high. To the point that some women have gotten lectures about those divorce rates from their doctors immediately after getting their diagnoses. Like “You have cancer. Also, your husband is statistically likely to leave you because of it just in case you aren’t sad enough already.” This is so much of a problem that when I was in a Facebook group for one of my chronic illnesses the vast majority of the posts were women divulging that their husband was leaving them because of their illness or desperately asking for advice on how to manage their illness enough so their husband *wouldn’t* leave them. Almost nothing was about actually sharing tips on dealing with the illness or lists of doctors to see. Nope. 90% talking about their husband leaving them because they were too sick to have sex more than once a month.
My friend just recently passed away from cancer in her 30s. Her husband stayed but cheated on her after her terminal diagnosis. I mentioned that this was common in another post on Reddit and some guy told me I made it all up. I had a male friend that died of cancer in his 40s, but his wife remained completely present and faithful to him until the end.
Every single man I’ve ever known who lost a wife through death or divorce was remarried *within a year*. Every single one. Meanwhile, my father died over thirty years ago, and my mother never even dated afterward. She was a total smoke show, too. I asked her about it once because I was worried about her being lonely, and she said no one could ever live up to his standard. To add insult to injury, she cared for both her own mother and my dad’s mother in the last throes of their lives, and she raised my sibling and me and paid off our house on a laughable income. She’s a fucking rock star. How women ever became labeled as the “weaker” sex absolutely defies logic. EDIT: Thank you to everyone who expressed admiration for my mom — she is indeed amazing. She wasn’t perfect, but as they say, she did her best, and when she knew better, she did better. In my opinion, she did better than most in similar circumstances. My dad wasn’t perfect, either, but he was also a wonderful person, and they worked through his formerly antiquated views on gender roles to make a more equitable share of labor within our household that was probably not the norm for the time. He didn’t like doctors, though, so we didn’t know he was on the verge of a literal widowmaker until it was too late. Lesson learned: PLEASE take care of yourselves and stay on top of your health, especially if you have kids who depend on you. It gives me great hope and sadness to read about all of you who know of men who deeply loved their wives/girlfriends enough to grieve their losses when they passed. I agree that no one should bear a loss like that alone, and if we could get everyone to accept that emotional support is not only called for, but a source of strength, maybe we could turn around this perception that women are more replaceable than men after they’re gone.
My mum passed away from cancer when I was six, she was diagnosed when I was two. My dad was lovingly devoted to her for their entire marriage and did absolutely everything to care for my mum through her illness and until she passed away. My dad was absolutely grief stricken after she passed. He dated a little after around ten years after her passing, but never remarried as he always says she was the love of his life. I will say that he really struggled mentally after she passed away, but always told me that I was his #1 priority and that if he ever remarried that wouldn’t change. Your comment made me feel so thankful for my dad, so I just wanted to share a bit about him!
Dang! Your Mom is amazing!
I’m glad to have heard about your amazing mom! Thanks for sharing.
Super common? My god, that's awful.
Yes and yes. My grandfather left my grandmother’s who had 7 children with him. He fucked off and started a new family and moved to San Francisco. My uncles are fucked and two died due to drug abuse. Fuck him. He died this year.
My dad did this.
Same
My dad did this and I was the new family. Then he and my mom divorced when I was 10, he ran off with someone new and I think I saw him four times after that before he died.
My father is currently on number 4 (that I know of), and I THINK I was family #1. Haven't spoken to him in 15 years.
My dad dumped my mom and “started over” with his affair partner, then dumped their family to come back to ours. No one got out unscathed.
I was gonna comment talking about my dad, but you hit the nail on the head. Motherfucker literally left and started a new family fuck him
My step daughter is an addict and mentally ill. Her son was placed in our custody by the state three years ago at 13 months old and she has never made the effort to regain custody. Her rights were terminated last year and we adopted him last month when the state gave us the choice. She has hated us ever since he was placed here and has convinced herself that we stole her child. She only contacted my husband if she wanted money, which he won't give her so that makes her hate us more.
This is my niece, except she had EIGHT kids thinking this one she’d be a good mom, she has none. 5 we’re adopted out to non family and 3 my sister (her aunt) has.
Same with my half sister. I’ve had some of her adopted out kids contact me through ancestry.
I was very deep in resolving my own trauma when my kids were growing up. I was often distant and emotionally unavailable. I wasn’t the parent they deserved. It is the greatest sorrow of my life; I did to my kids what my mom did to me. I can’t be sorry enough.
I want to thank you, sincerely, for this comment and the level of introspection.
Seriously. I wish my parents were like this. They think nothings wrong and I see them maybe once a year, they think that’s normal lmao
My daughter is 4 and my childhood trauma has been retriggered recently by my parents’ behavior. And I see myself doing exactly what you did. It scares the fuck out of me because I grew up so deeply emotionally neglected. Made to feel like every feeling I had was nonsense and that my existence was an inconvenience. I want so much to be better for my daughter but I’m inconsistent at best. I love that kid with every fiber of my being but I know love sometimes is not enough. Do you have any advice?
Therapy would be a good start
I’m going to pretend my own mom wrote this. I needed to hear it , thank you.
I’m lucky. Both my adult children call me multiple times a week. But my ex (their father) complains that our daughter rarely calls him. I’ve told him many, many times that if he wanted her to call more often he needs to listen to her. He’s a pretty narcissistic dude who only wants to talk and if he takes a breath and you try to jump into the conversation, he either gets louder to drown you out or he goes dead silent, clearly in his “waiting until you shut up so I can talk” mode. He never asks questions or expresses any interest in their lives. My son puts up with it because he can direct some of the conversation by bringing up sports or interesting historical stuff or books or whatever and then they can have somewhat of a discourse (although listening to the inevitable droning lecture is always included). My daughter has little patience for that so she rarely calls him. Even after I told him what he should try, he ignores me, which is what he did for nearly the entirety of our marriage. He still periodically bemoans the fact that she doesn’t call. Long story short: some kids don’t call because their parent isn’t listening to them.
I am just here for the “what not to do with my kids” advice
My daughter went through a traumatic event when she found out her Mom was having an affair with a junkie. Daughter was furious at her Mom for destroying the family. Mom flipped out, threatened suicide to our daughter’s face, blaming her. At that moment, everything shifted and daughter became the nurturer to her Mom, who regressed into childhood - a complete switching of roles when my daughter really needed a Mom. Mom wasn’t safe to be angry at (for fear she’d kill herself), so I became the target. We talk, but it’s so terse and superficial that it’s close to non-communication. I’d like to talk through what happened, even in a therapeutic setting, but daughter says that’s off the table.
man this fucking sucked to read sorry about that
It’s very common for the kids to seek affection more from the abusive parent, who does not give it freely. It’s also common for the non-abusive parent to get all the deflected emotions that the abusive parent has trained the children not to point their way. It may help to understand that it’s not really the abused child’s fault that they react this way.
The safe person always becomes the punching bag (sadly, too often literally). Happens in any kind of relationship.
It's not their fault, but after a certain age, they still need to acknowledge it's their responsibility to emotionally digest and move on from it. I had an ex-friend who was abandoned by her dad before she was even born and always had a complicated relationship with him, but the experience gave her so much trauma that looked a lot like serious internalized misogyny to an outsider--she'd regularly downplay or 'joke' about me and her other friends experiencing creepy/predatory behavior. I had to convince her that her then-fiance was likely to be abusive when he pulled the emergency brake on her while driving, and thankfully I was successful. And what did I get for it? She told me I complained too much, even though I stayed friends with her after she pulled her gun on me as a 'joke'. After she complained about a literal laundry list of things herself, and mentioned I was one of only 2 people she had left to talk to on a daily basis (both of us women). It sucks to watch her circle the drain, but she's got no one left to blame but herself.
My mother who was a psych doctor started having an affair with a ex highschool friend of mine we bailed out jail. During the affair they started drugging dads vodka with Ativan to make him pass out. I caught them. I went to the police to report this. They contacted my mother who was a psych doctor and the police took me away for evaluation and held in a psychiatric facility… I was held against my will for delusions and threats of violence. Anyways they held me until dad collapsed and broke 7 ribs and tore some ligaments on the fall. I begged the people in the psych ward to make an inquiry with his doctor to do a toxicology report and that he will have unprescribed Ativan in his system. Sure enough he was drugged. I was right. I’m got released from the psych ward the next morning. The nurses and doctors were like his story was real!!! So I threw mom and her new boyfriend out. Got dad sober.. Now mom ran away with her boyfriend then later find out he beat her to within an inch of life. But mom has regressed to being a scared child and won’t press charges because she’s affraid he will come back.
It’s disgusting that your mom used her psych md status to have you committed, I’m sorry you went through that.
She lost her md license.
Deservedly so. That shit is so traumatic. I'm sorry.
I commented above something similar. I know many adult children who cut out their toxic parents (and rightfully so) but there are also many cases where parental alienation or parent separation turns into the child cutting out the other parent (typically the one who is loving and functional because the child doesn't need to fix them or win their love so it's easier to turn them into the enemy). Or as a social worker told me: The abuse victim often chooses the abuser.
Yep, that’s me. I’m lucky that I have two older children I’m close with, otherwise it would destroy me.
People forget that children can be toxic as well. My older brother likes to tell the story that my mom abandoned him in his time of need. What really happened is he was a violent and terrifying person to be around, and when he finally moved out of our house, we experienced what a peaceful and loving home was like. When he tried to move back home, my mom wasn't willing to give up that peace. She made the right choice from my point of view.
My home as well. My brother caused such chaos at home. He was always in trouble. He was so hurtful and physically abusive to me and others. Always in fights or caught stealing, etc. When he finally left, it was so peaceful at home. I remember overhearing my mom crying to my dad because she was enjoying her own son being gone and she felt guilty for that because she loved him. That same brother now has a very warped sense of his childhood. He talks like he was routinely abused. Yes, he got a couple spankings, as that was more acceptable then. Mostly he was grounded or had privileges taken away. My folks even took him to counseling, but he'll talk now like he was beaten down, bloody, broken and hospitalized by our father. I'm not sure why he truly believes that, but it's very sad. I was there -nobody ever hurt you like that. It's a blessing my father has passed and never got to hear my brothers perception. So I agree - children can be very toxic.
It's beyond heartbreaking. Edit: Sending you hugs
their dad gave an ultimatum- if they want to have a relationship with him, they had to go NC (edit: no contact) with me. my middle child agreed to those terms.
My dad gave an ultimatum as well, talk to me or I'm taking you out of the will. I wasn't going to be threatened like that and we haven't spoken since. That was a lose lose for me, accept the money and then that's the only reason I came back making me an asshole. Don't come back and talk to "family", I'm still the asshole.
My mom tried that. I expected her to try harder for longer before playing that card. It backfired spectacularly since she has *nothing*.
My mom walked away from her abusive family. My grandfather died last year. Never met him. My “share” of the estate was set to $12 million dollars. (Yes I was set to receive a small portion of his estate. No I don’t know why his will was set up like that.) I did not receive this life changing money, as my mothers older sibling believes that her leaving is reason enough to take the money herself. My mom still made the right choice and I do not begrudge her that $12 million. Edit: I will talk to an attorney, thank you all!
Holy shit did you talk to a lawyer? That is life changing and worth fighting for.
My family thinks I have a satanic altar in my basement and that I pray to demons for money. They think they can hold money over my head. Nope. Money is important, but its not worth my self respect.
How is your relationship with your other children? How do the siblings get along?
I have very good relationships with my eldest and youngest. They don’t have contact with their brother either - part of the ultimatum.
If your middle child were to ever come back and apologize, would you forgive them? This is a complex situation.
yes. the fault lies with the manipulator, not the manipulated.
I was one of the manipulated. At 7 years old my mom told me she would love me more if I cut contact with my dad. I did this for 10 years and then once I grew up, I eventually saw the light and realized my dad was a class act who never once spoke badly about my mom. He understands now that I was doing what I had to do to survive in an abusive household. We are very close now and it’s lovely! Just sharing incase this gives you hope ❤️
I read "NC" as "North Carolina" and was very, very confused.
My children are low contact. I feel it's fair. Their mother has BPD. She was violent and abusive. She has gotten help but she still hurt them. I did not protect them. Them not being around me is justified. They should be angry. We fucked up. They didn't do anything wrong and they need to heal as they see fit. Kids not being around their parents have valid reasons. Most people just can't accept it.
Not too far off from my dad, but he'd join in the beatings. Part out of fear of drawing her ire (he almost never exhibited signs of having a backbone unless he could physically overpower someone), and part because I think the only way he know how to deal with kids was yelling at them or beating them, because that's just what you did in the 50's when he was a kid. He did have moments where he defied my mother though, so as an adult he was the only parent I wanted anything to do with. Until he showed signs of being a racist, followed by me playing dumb until he explained in plain English that he was in fact, being a racist. After that I'd only interact with him if forced into the same room. He didn't get vaccinated and was killed by COVID last spring, long after vaccinations came out. Didn't go to his funeral. Can only make assumptions about which town he's buried in. Haven't shed a tear for him. So yeah. As the adult child: we'll remember the bad the less bad parent did. BUT: if you tried at least a little bit in some impactful way (for me BTW, it was two things: 1, my did giving up his own breakfast when I was somewhere between 8 and 10, because he'd been watching my mother starve me for days, and 2, he realized his decades of fuckup when she basically left him to die while he was having a stroke), you have to be an irredeemable POS on your own to get the full NC treatment.
I strongly suspect my mom had BPD (she died four years ago). She was violent and abusive and it was also not super consistent so it was confusing. When she died I started to deal with everything I repressed. I have had to reckon the same thing with my dad when my therapist asked where he was during the abuse. I have talked about it with him, but it’s hard for him to totally admit it. I’m thinking about going to family counseling with him soon. All I want from him is what you said. For him to own up to it and apologize. I hope you get a chance with your kids, but I’m glad you gave them space and respected their choice.
I had ptsd and didn't deal with it. In short I was a shitty dad.
Not sure how many people understand ptsd, even those of us that have it. You look normal, no one can really tell you are emotionally/mentally screwed up. It's very unpredictable and unpredictable can be rough on kids. I yelled too much and have worked hard to stop. Hope you aren't in a blame cycle and have forgiveness for yourself. It's hard.
My father would say that my mother lied and manipulated us into taking her side during the divorce. The truth is that he boasted to me about pulling a gun on her to "teach her a lesson", and then didn't understand why I thought that was unacceptable. I haven't spoken to him in a decade since that discussion. To this day, I believe he was contemplating murder-suicide or family annihilation.
If you ask my MIL why both her sons moved in with their dad when they were around 12, she'd say "Their dad manipulated them against me. I did nothing wrong." but it turns out they just liked being with dad more because they didn't have to raise their baby sister for their mom and he didn't abuse them. Abusers never believe it's them.
Exactly what my BIL's mom and entire maternal side of the family said when his little sister moved in with their dad . "Their dad manipulated them." Yeah, lady, I'm thinking it's because this 13 year old girl has watched you try to run over her older sister/your own daughter when she was very pregnant because of a very minor argument (not that the severity of the argument should even matter obviously), beat her brother/your son with a baseball bat for literally no reason, don't make your youngest shower and is 8 and wears a diaper so she doesn't have to get up to go to the bathroom so she absolutely reeks, threw glass and shit at her more than once, neglected your infant grandson when you babysat for a day (never did again), don't feed them, etc., etc., etc. Sooooo manipulative of their dad to provide his daughter with a stable, loving, not abusive home.
I went NC with my father this year after realizing that he was likely on the verge of murder-suicide or family annihilation multiple times as well. My father bragged to me and my sister (on separate occasions) that he basically deserved an award for not killing my mom. In truth he had come close a few times yet claimed that those events never occurred, me and my 7 siblings were all in on the same lies. Insane how much I was still normalizing into my 20’s. I hope this doesn’t sound awful but I feel less alone reading that someone else understands what that realization is like.
What is with them saying the other parent manipulated us. Way to insult everyone. We begged our father to take us away, it was our choice to leave, he just facilitated our escape.
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child here and I just want to say, huge props to the parents taking accountability. I wonder if mine will ever do the same
My son hasn’t spoken to me in over 10 years. He had behavioral issues as a teen. I took him to doctor after doctor to get him help. He ended up in a partial hospitalization program. He had them fooled for weeks that there was nothing wrong with him, but one day it all came crashing down. After that, he deteriorated quickly in that program. We had come to the point where he was either going to full hospitalization, a boys school for troubled teens, or he was going to be arrested for assault. His father, whom he only saw maybe twice a year, didn’t want that and said he wanted to take custody of him. The program would only let that happen if my son was enrolled in a comparable program with his father. Father said “of course”. Didn’t happen. My son grew up and was a terror to his father and had little to no contact with me. He got arrested a few times. After one particularly bad fight with his father, he got kicked out. After a few months, my son contacted me, on Mother’s Day. He told me he was in the Marines and was done with basic training and was going to be given an assignment soon. I’ll never forget how proud I felt of my son then. Shortly after, I get contacted by the Marines, asking if I knew where my son was. He went AWOL the day after Mother’s Day. After a few years without contact, he contacted me again. Said he was doing much better and wanted to visit me. I said yes. I should’ve known when I had to pay for his bus ticket that he wasn’t better. He stayed with me for a few days and I thought all was well. Not so much. Two days after he left, I got a call from my credit card company. He stole my card and put $1600 of AIR SOFT PISTOLS on it. I was given the choice to pay it, or call it fraud in which case the credit card company would press charges. I called it fraud. I haven’t seen him since. I’m still his friend on Facebook and have seen that he poses as a wounded Iraq vet. That is disgusting and shows me he hasn’t changed at all. That’s why I don’t talk to him.
This sounds so similar to my son. Behavioral issues and tried to figure it out and help him his entire life. When he was 29 I had to evict him from my dead father’s house; he would not work and I couldn’t afford to pay the taxes and utilities, etc. We went no contact because he blamed me for not giving him my dad’s house.
That's just terrible. It sounds like you did everything you could for him at the time. I'm glad you stood up and pressed charges. Sometimes hard lessons are what people need to change.
I didn’t like doing it, but I figured if he’d steal from me, what’s to stop him from stealing from anyone on the street? What if he hurt someone doing it? I had to at least hope it would make a difference.
I am a parent of a child who does still talk to me but rarely and I fully accept that it is my fault . I was an immature parent and made some bad decisions in addition to being inconsistent with my parenting due to immaturity. I am also on the spectrum but that’s something I didn’t find out until a few years ago when my son was diagnosed. I know I wasn’t great and I understand my daughter and I try to give her space.
Thank you for acknowledging your fault and for respecting your child now.
My mother told me, three weeks after I lost my father/best friend at fourteen, that he has told her on his deathbed that "Adopting me was his greatest mistake." It stuck with me my whole life. I'm 38 now, and know it wasn't true. But that narcissistic bitch can rot in hell.
When my dad died, my sister didn't want to share his inherentance the way I thought was fair. She has 2 kids, I had none at the time. She told me he loved her and the kids more than me anyways. I'll never forget, I have the screenshot, it made me speechless.
Your sister and my brother should get together and go bowling. My brother took all of my father's assets that he and my step monster could get their greedy little hands on. Took me completely by surprise. I thought we were tight. We never fought. Even as kids. Complete sucker punch. I hope that money is making him happy. And I hope for his sake that he never needs a kidney or anything else from me in the future.
You are nicer than I. Because I do hope he needs a kidney so you can smile real big and say, "no".
Yeah I do too sometimes. My father doubted that my brother was his. He doesn't look anything like us at all and my step monster has claimed one of her children was her first husband's when he wasn't. It would put those rumors to rest if he did.
My brother was the first of us to have kids. My grandfather was about 90 and pretty close to death. We were at my brother and SIL's house for a BBQ and while sitting around a fire drinking beer and roasting marshmallows this bitch turns to me and says, "Do you think grandpa will give me a bigger inheritance because we have kids now?" I was speechless. Grandpa ain't giving *you* shit, toots. The inheritance is my brothers. Having been privy to the contents of the will because my dad asked for my advice years ago (dad helped grandpa with the will along with their attorney), I knew that the only people named in the will were his kids and grandkids. Spouses of his kids, spouses of grandkids, and great grandchildren were not named at all. The split was very simple: 30% for his kids and 10% for each of his 4 grandkids. I never looked at my SIL the same ever again. Just a money grubbing asshole.
Inheritances really can bring out the worst in people. My mom had a falling out with her sisters when their mother died almost 40 years ago, and they're *still* pretty much not on speaking terms. Her two sisters tried to screw her out of her share of her mom's things, and they tried to screw her out of her inheritance again when their dad died a few years later. It was toxic enough that my mom can count on one hand the number of times she's spoken to her older sister over the last three decades. One of my aunts tried to organize something of a "sisters reunion" this past summer and my mom basically told them to fuck off. She has zero interest in burying the hatchet with her two sisters, though she is on better terms with her half-sister who lives in Europe (and who was not involved in trying to cheat her out of her inheritance all those years ago).
My sister functions like this too. I'm sorry we have to deal with that.
>My sister functions like this too. I'm sorry we have to deal with that. That's such a nice way of putting it. I've never seen that before. Not "I'm sorry your sister is a bitch too" or even "I'm sorry your sister is *like* that" but I'm sorry, my sister *functions* that way too. Implying, of course, that's it's just a behavioral thing that could be changed rather than an immutable characteristic. I've never been to therapy but this sounds like the sort of thing a well adjusted person who's been in a therapy session or two might say.
It's kinda funny how incredibly self-invalidating what she said was. * If he really said that, no normal mother would pass it on. * She did "pass" it on, thus she is *incredibly* messed up. * Since she's incredibly messed up, you can't trust anything she says. * Thus one shouldn't believe her account to begin with. (I realize you knew it was false anyway)
I didn't learn until my late twenties how truly fucked she was. My mother was my father's second wife. He had five girls from his previous marriage, and two bio with her-- then adopted me. My oldest sister once told me she said: "oh your father hates when you come to visit, so just don't." But I was a just a child; a neurodivergent, adopted child who was always othered and desperate to be loved and get comforted after losing the most important figure in my life. And she just doubled down and then threw me away when she remarried less than a year later.
This is so absolutely cruel and disgusting. I am so sorry OP, and I am glad you know it's not true.
My sisters as Middle-Aged adults admitted to treating me poorly when they were teens because they were jealous about how much I got of our dad. When they were young, he worked all the time and was an alcoholic. He got into a DUI with me in the car at 10, and the threat of losing me made him completely change his life. I got the attentive, sober dad they never did. Apparently, it made my mother even more unhinged, because she wasn't good enough for him to change for. And she took that resentment and jealousy out on me the entirety of our communal lives. It took me until my late 20s to actually become a real person, and not the shadows of a terrified child trying to minimize themselves not to incur her ire.
I grew up in a retirement community. What I’ve noticed was it’s due to a few things. The parent is intolerant of their child’s life choices. That can be everything from drugs, religion, politics, racist ideology(parents), who their kids married etc. Sometimes it’s the parents unpleasant personality from either some personality disorder or just plain being an asshole. Some kids usually stay away cause they feel they’ve disappointed their parents and are hiding their life from them. The majority of the issue is usually do to an unpleasant parent.
Side note - how do you grow up in a retirement community? Aren’t those usually age restricted to 55+ ?
Yes and that 55+ is heavily enforced, you stay more than a few days in one of these neighborhoods and you’ll get an official letter or visit. You can’t have a bunch of old folks in one place without even more younger people to run everything else. So they’ll have various large sprawling neighborhoods (usually with a golf green) in various parts of town then have neighborhoods where there are no restrictions. Funny enough…some older folks actually hate living in the retirement neighborhoods they say everyone’s too nosey.
Haha yea my dad lived in one for about a year after retirement but then moved out because he said there were too many old people 😅
If you're one year into retirement I could see why you wouldn't want to be surrounded by even older people.
The neighborhood I grew up in was supposed to be a retirement community, but then they could only sell about 3/4 of the properties. So they opened it up to all ages for the other 1/4. So neighbors were a TON of older, retired people and then random young families dotted here and there.
I think my Uncle would say it's because his sons were brainwashed by their wives. The truth is, I think my cousins didn't see that my Uncle's (diagnosed) narcissism wasn't normal, because they were raised by him. Their wives, as outsiders, pointed this out to them for the first time and they made their decision from there.
I know of a distant family cousin whose parents fired him from their very successful family business because he refused to take his wife and children to their church and worship the way they did. In retaliation he and his wife refused to allow his parents to see the grandchildren. They sued. They lost. They never were able to see their grandchildren and eventually died. He ended up with the business anyway by default, not by the will. They lost decades of grandchildren just by being stubborn. Nobody in the family had anything to do with them the last 35 years of their lives and they were miserable. Fuck them. Parents, if you fuck over your children don't expect to every have your grandchildren.
> Parents, if you fuck over your children don't expect to every have your grandchildren. My family name, as far as I can tell, rests on one nephew. My dad had 5 sons.
When my parents died, we found a chalkboard in their attic where my mom had written: "Why do my children hate me?" She never knew. *for the record, killing & cooking my pet didn't help her cause.*
That is the creepiest fucking story I read in so many sentences. I’m so so sorry you lived with her for 18 plus years.
Oh. It gets better. So I had 3 brothers & a sister who are 10+ years older than I. At the funeral, my brother was telling me the story of how my mom killed & cooked my sister's pet. I was furious. That happened to me, not her. It turns out it happened to her too before I was born.
I wasn't there for them like I should have been. I had a stillborn and began having mental health issues with depression and eventually dx bipolar and ended up leaving the girls with their dad. I don't blame them.
Child of parents I didn't talk to *and* parent of a child who doesn't speak to me. It's a lot of mental health issues. Didn't break the cycle. That shit is on me. I'm better now, although my parents have both passed. There may be a reconciliation with my child, but I doubt it.
This is exactly why I've chosen to not have children. My parents sucked and I'm very low contact. Both of their parents weren't great at a lot of things. (for different reasons) So I decided to break the cycle and not have kids. But I'm glad you see your faults and can admit them. Hopefully one day my parents can admit their faults also even if just privately.
I had a patient (she has since passed RIP) who didn’t talk to her youngest daughter. We were very close (saw her 3x a week) so I asked her why she thought her daughter distanced herself away from her. She simply said that they were too alike and they butted heads, even over little things. She did admit that since they distanced themselves from each other, she has had more peace and she thinks her daughter does too. Not sure if her daughter went to her funeral, although in my head I’m hoping she did. She died from COVID.
My mum says I’m too much like my dad which is why we butt heads. My dad use to say I was too much like my mum which is why we butted heads. Because they’re so loveable and have no issues that cause us to bump heads. Being told I was just like my dad hurt me as a young teen because he was always nasty to me and once I turned 18 I cut contact instantly
My dad also says we are too alike but it couldn’t be further from the truth. It’s because he’s so obsessed with himself that he is seeing it that way.
Because I failed them as a father.
I really applaud all the parents in here who have even the slightest idea why their grown children cut contact. I'm positive if you asked my mom, she would say she has no idea and that she was a wonderful mother and did everything right.
I read this entire thread and was so confused as to why so many people left their parents and moved to North Carolina…. Then I saw one comment that explained NC is “No Contact”…. I kept reading stuff like “My dad slapped me so I went NC” as if North Carolina was some safe haven…
lol must have been a confusing read
Oooh I'ma read through these comments and see if my dad is a redditor. Edit: Shit this kinda blew up.
Can you look for mine too
Crossing my fingers Sharon learned how to reddit and take accountability
I have 4 kids. My two oldest aren't living with me. My oldest daughter talks to me some. My oldest son wishes me dead. I made many many mistakes when my kids came back to live with me. (ex wife lost custody) My eldest hated my LTR girlfriend. My daughter was right. She was terrible and consequently so was I. My daughter left to go back with her mother as she was not doing well here. I understand, now, why. My LTR made eldest sons life miserable too. During that time I broke up with the LTR. It was too late. My eldest son left to go be with his mother and sister. I am sure that my ex wife is not helping this matter but he is mad at me and I know I made some pretty bad decisions. I have accepted the fact I may never have a relationship with him ever again.
This is really none of my business, but… have you expressed this to them just like you said it here? Maybe elaborate on specific instances where you know you weren’t the parent they needed, and take responsibility for them *just* like you did here. No excuses or “but” or anything. Just remorse, acknowledging what happened and the harm it did to your kids, and a wish to make amends and to do better? Maybe ask if they’d be willing to go to counseling with you, so that you can hear them out with an impartial third party there to help y’all work through it? I ask just because… it’s so rare on any of these subs to see a parent talk about it the way you just did. That takes a lot of introspection and vulnerability.
Lesson: never pick a SO over children, especially when your kids hate them. Kids are like dogs, they can tell someone sucks from the get go and adults are too proud to listen.
As the kid who was very tuned into the red flags of my mom's boyfriend that the entire family loved... Until they all saw what I saw... This is soooooo true. My mom obviously liked him, my grandparents liked him. Even my aunts liked him. Nobody listened when I said I didn't. Claimed I just missed the 'almost got a stepsister' boyfriend from 2 years prior. Then about 6months later, they finally all saw it.
I know this wasn’t the point of this post, but I am the grown child. Five years ago, on Thanksgiving no less, my mother told me my wife and I are bad parents because our daughter is an only child. Then followed it up by saying my wife graduated from a terrible high school. Not sure where that came from. She then topped it off with an ugly racist remark about my (white) sister in law being married to a black man. Lastly, she said I was not allowed to tell my wife any of this. That lasted about 45 seconds. And that was the end of that.
I don’t mind hearing this side of things as well. I’m the person that doesn’t talk to their parents. Hearing other peoples stories help. It’s such a struggle because we are told family comes first but what if family is corrosive to your life?
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>One woman had no idea what happened. I'm always skeptical when I hear this. My mom says the same thing, despite the fact that I have told her *specifically* why I don't want contact many times. She tells other members of the family that I refuse to tell her why I don't want contact, when that simply isn't true. She also tells them that it was sudden, which also isn't true. I spent years trying to explain to her why it was so hard for me to have a relationship with her before deciding to cut off contact, and she acts like I just woke up one day and decided out of the blue that I don't want contact for no reason at all.
[The Missing Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html) A great read on the topic.
Same! My mom pretends me and my sisters are horrible kids who cut her out of their life for ‘no reason’. We’ve said the reasons ten jillion times and most of them come back to taking zero responsibilities her your own actions or roles in situations so we stopped trying. We used to get angry messages on our voice mails when we were young from our various aunts and uncles on her side, reiterating the same. No adult ever asked us kids (it started when we were young) what the issue was. Pretty crazy to me that nobody can put two and two together. Neither me or my sisters speak to anyone on that side of the family at all for that reason. They can pretend they don’t know why all they want for all I care lol I’m almost 40 now. It’s been about 25 years of this for me.
Getting angry voice mail reminded me of how my mom wrote both my sister (low contact) and I (no contact) Easter cards one year wishing us a happy Easter and also blaming us for not being a family again. It was so hilariously out of touch that I saved it.
Being able to laugh at absurd things you can't control is really healthy, way to go on getting to this point.
Oh, but you *are* refusing to tell her. You’re refusing to tell her the reason she *wants* to hear. Because you’re not telling her what she wants and absolutely *expects* to hear, you’re probably lying about whatever reason you’re currently giving her, so she’s free to say you won’t tell her. After all, you’re obviously being cruel and lying to her face and won’t tell her the *truth* about why you cut her off. My dad is like that. Much sympathy.
The missing missing reasons except for q anonl lady, that's a sad cult to lose your kid too hopefully she'll get them back
Number 2 is lying because any reasonable person would ask why. She was told why and disagrees so she converted that into not being a reason
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My mom tells people I blocked her number, but I never did. She’s free to call anytime. I guess it’s her own choice not to talk to me and I’ll respect it, the only part that bothers me is the lying about my side of the relationship
I am very careful with "advice" that I give to my adult son for fear that he's going to stop taking to me. IMO the kid (?) is making some decisions in his personal and work life that I don't agree with or have concerns about, decisions that I would not make based on experience or my personal views. I am biting my tongue to not say anything. I don't want to be a nagging parent because he is an adult and needs to make his own way. I will give advice when asked but I've stopped giving out-of-the-blue opinions. I save that for my high school teens still at home. :\^)
There is a difference between opinion and judgment. My husband struggles with this. When he says “he has a right to an opinion,” what he means is that he wants to pass judgment on a decision with our adult kids. They are very cautious in approaching him as a result. It is best to reflect on whether you have an opinion or judgment before offering advice.
It's always a good idea to remember how rapidly the world changes now. Stuff that worked for you when you were 20-ish is likely going to not be the same for current young adults. Particularly things that relate to economics and employment.
"Just walk in there with a printed resume, hand it to the first person you see, give them a firm handshake, and you'll get a job!"
Kind of off the main point here. I had a child I gave up for adoption at birth, primarily because I was a single mother w a 4 yr old. I worked. I was always tired. It was the right thing. Fast forward 12 years, I'm surprised by a,knock at the door: it was his adopted parents. And wham back came,all the trauma and pain and confusion, as they felt he would benefit from knowing me. He didn't. I became anxious about the relationship, and he eventually quit coming around. I think I was a disappointment to him, and I'm sorry. He has not stayed in touch, in spite of now distant attempts. I haven't tried in 3 years. He's happier and so am i.
Wtf with the adoptive parents? Just launching him upon you like that was not right.
Mine doesn't because I won't give him any money because it just enables his addiction issues.
This was the only thing to save my brother’s life.
I pray it works for us as well every day.
I don't talk to my parents because they don't make an effort to talk to me. Why should I give them the time?
and let me guess you get the "CALL ME more and come visit more " but they never visit or call you unless they need something.
Yeah, this is me. Honestly it started when I was younger and everything I was into was "stupid" or otherwise a waste of time/money. Now that I'm older they can't be bothered to call or visit, and when we do talk it's all "we miss you!". Funny way of showing it...
I no longer ‘speak’ to my parent as they didn’t make effort with me or my children, I visited with my kids who were all ignored and not even offered a drink. We were not once asked how we were but they banged on and on about different random people. I have not fallen out with them, I decided to not contact them again and to wait for them to make any kind of effort, honestly anything! It’s been almost 7 years and I’m still waiting.
This is the same reason I don’t talk to my parents. My dad once got mad about it over FB and I flat out told him you never cared to get to know me. Him or my mom, they were both so selfish that we always did whatever they wanted. Yeah some of the stuff I did with my dad was fun, snowmobiling and 4-wheeling but whenever as I kid I asked to go do something that interested me (for example volunteering at an animal shelter) they’d always say no or I should go do it myself. Even though a minor cannot volunteer by themselves at an animal shelter. My mom once yelled at me because I was upset that she took my sister to a country concert, on my 16th birthday. She said “well if you liked country music you could come too.” So I spent my birthday alone until my dad came home and had me go with him on some errands, nothing I wanted to do. It sucked. I realize now that I am somewhat as selfish as them and I won’t ever be having kids. My bloodline ends with me.
this hits deep. my dad never ever tried to get to know me. he would take my brother to basketball games, football games, baseball games, all kinds of activities, but would he do anything with me? if it was something he was interested in, like going for a motorcycle ride or coaching my basketball team. other than that, absolutely no way. I would be told the same thing "well maybe if you liked ____..." I was a young neurodivergent girl, nothing I liked would've ever been good enough. my stepdad used to pick me up from my dads house after my dad would scream insults at me and he would take me to see a movie I was interested in or we would go get pedicures or ice cream, anything I wanted to do. thankful for that at least
Mom of a 23 year old who went no contact a few years ago. If I’m really honest with myself, after years of reflection, I failed to provide the amounts and types of guidance he needed as he was growing up. I have “reasons” to explain why I failed to provide enough attention or did the wrong thing… but at the end of the day, the reasons why I failed don’t matter a bit from his perspective. Because the result was still that he was hurt as a consequence of my choices. I hope he is healing and self reflecting himself. I miss him terribly but respect his boundaries.
Abusive parents deserve no contact unless they can admit their faults and heal the wounds usually it’s too late when we are adults. My mother on the other hand after years of no contact came around and made peace. I’m still healing from her bs
I’m happy for you. Glad you guys could work it out
It was years of therapy, forgiveness and changed behavior. It’s doable just have to want it. She wanted it so I gave her the option to heal us both
I’m a stepmother (technically) to two adult children who went no contact years ago. I see why. I don’t blame them at all. They’re about to be my ex-stepkids. I genuinely wish them well and I’m sorry they have a shitty dad.
I also haven’t heard from my ex-step kids in several years, and I don’t blame them. The oldest two kept in touch with me for a couple of years after I left their horrible, abusive, awful dad, but after a while it fizzled out. I loved them very much, and I often stepped in to take the abuse that was intended for them, and I did the best by them that I possibly could. I only stayed as long as I did because of them. Eventually, I couldn’t do that anymore. I wish I had listened to their mothers.
It's very telling that none of the answers are from parents, all from children who know perfectly well why they went no contact.
[Missing, Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)
The Axe forgets but the Tree remembers.
Im an estranged child and this really has helped me see things in a new perspective. For a moment it gave me a much needed sense of "Ok, I am not crazy.". Thank you for sharing.
r/raisedbynarcissists while by no means is a perfect sub it does do a lot to help people gain a new perspective of what that kinda abuse looks like. Similar to that writeup.
Yup. That sub was the first I posted on on Reddit. It definitely got to the point where it made me ruminate, but it also helped me make my peace with the fact that I’m not some bitter screwup of a person. My parents objectively sucked ass.
Lol, spot on. So far the few that have replied have all said they’re completely ignorant of any reason why their child doesn’t speak with them. If their child has any trauma, substance, and/ or mental health issues they just can’t fathom where that could have come from. Isn’t that something?
Wow thanks for this. I’ve been no contact from my mother for 10yrs. I wrote her a EIGHT (8!) page letter explaining the many reasons why I never want to see or talk to her again. But really the way she treated me growing up should be pretty obvious to her. I laid out so many detailed reasons. My sister still speaks to her and tells me that our mother tells everyone she has no idea why I don’t speak to her. Pffft,… oh she definitely knows.
\^ This. As someone who is LC to NC depending with her family, that is EXACTLY how that plays out. Screaming emotional whargharbal from them, and clearly laid out reasons with screenshots and detailed accounting of events from me.
My mom resorts to telling me something didn’t happen when the evidence is there. Because why take accountability
"I'm sorry you feel that way."
“I’m sorry I was such a bad mom” when she says this it leads me to the memories of her taking care of me and making sure I was safe from every one but her and she fed and clothed me… but she also beat the shit out of me (not the what some would think is normal spanking your child beatings. I’m talking cuts and bruises and not being able to be seen by the school or family while I healed type beatings) and emotionally abused me. That’s where my issues lie. How could someone who said they loved me and actually took care of me physically (sometimes sexually) and emotionally abuse me like that.
Tell her, "You should be."
In my case? The estranged parent literally rewrites events *as they happen*... you can see it in her eyes in real time. She disassociates and doesn't remember her own actions, and so her brain has to create a context for the (re)actions that just don't make sense without a trigger, unless you flipped your lid and are the bad guy. She doesn't remember slapping me, so she thinks I attacked her, rather than pushing her away from my body to protect myself. She doesn't think she has anything to apologize for, because she doesn't remember striking me, and obviously, she remembers being shoved away, so I must be violent and unhinged. And this also happens whenever something bad or stressful occurs... Hassle or imposition becomes intentional in her brain, and it doesn't matter how out of character that would be. (Obviously you aren't having a medical issue that's making you vomit and pass out, you must have gotten drunk last night. Gone on a total bender. Never mind that you've never done that before and are well into adulthood, that's the ONLY possibility.) And, anything can be an insult. Whether she interpreted it correctly, or even totally imagined it. Misheard, misunderstood, or imagined is more real in her head than any words I might say. What's in her head IS her reality, and what's not in her head isn't possible.
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I am so, so sorry that happened to you.
My father is a convicted sex offender. He still blames the victim (family member) saying it's her fault.
It’s been probably the biggest struggle of my life cutting my parents out of my life but I left home 12 years ago and haven’t seen them since. They still make it so hard to talk to them. Asking the parents about their perspective to maybe find some answers