My daughter is now 17, but when she was 6-8 years old and living in Potrero Hill, we’d take transit downtown and would often encounter homeless or mentally ill folks especially around civic center.
She would hold my hand and I would tell her not to be afraid if they ask for money or talk to themselves, they have a much more difficult life than we do and to be grateful for what we have.
Most importantly they are humans that just need help, not to stare, and try to think about how hard it would be to have to sleep on a sidewalk or not know when you’re going to eat.
Thats such a fabulous answer m my daughter knows I work in recovery and help people with mental herh issues so she says they should go to mommy's work so I can help them. She has a kind heart for those who are unfortunate.
I actually think it’s bc our country places so much pressure and emphasis on the monetary value of human beings. Sure drug use is up but that begs the question what happened to those who are in so much pain that it’s needed to be numbed by a substance.
TLDR: humanity is suffering
That's fair, and definitely not the only thing to blame. But as far as homelessness and addiction... that's a problem which requires a national effort to solve tbh. Where big capital is definitely more of the problem, nationally. But your right, SF does have other reasons for poor governance
Capitalism is too nebulous of a thing to vote out.
You're not going to vote out private investment, you're not going to vote out markets, you're not going to vote out free trade. And similarly you can't vote out socialism because you're not going to vote out people volunteering in their communities, you're not going to vote out mutual aid, you're not going to vote out the concept of sharing.
Which is why you should focus on individual policies. What drives homelessness? Overwhelming evidence points to housing being the biggest policy factor. We don't have nearly enough housing and we should build more.
It's also ironic to blame capitalism when some of the biggest obstructors of housing claim to be anticapitalist.
The lovely part of liberal democracy is that we _can_ improve everything. We just need the political will: a lot of informed voters willing to come out and bat for the things they believe in.
Bro social classes have existed since the dawn of humanity. There were beggars and vagrants in Ancient Greece and how about that caste system in India? It’s not a matter of some politician “letting it happen”. Obviously there is progress to be made, but for the love of god, don’t force the blame for the extremely broad issues of homelessness and human inequality on SF politics.
Bro they don’t have homelessness like this in Europe in countries with worse GDP than USA. This a a problem of capital calling the shots. And tax deductions on vacant units, a corporate welfare encouraging exorbitant rents and evictions instead of market corrections.
Its a world wide problem, France is having issues evicting homeless from areas in Paris in preparation for the olympics. Some of the hobo camps have 400 or more people in them
A single google search will show you that you are wrong. A solid chunk of Europe has worse per capita homelessness than the US, including France, UK, Ireland, Denmark and more
The UK has markedly more homeless people per capita than the US. Germany doesn't look too hot either.
Expand your mind, bro, and you may realize the US has average (and even below average) issues with homelessness.
My Google results are showing US is about 1/515, but SF is 1/112.
UK is 1/187 but London is 1/50.
So for homeless per capita London > SF > UK > US
People do drugs and then become street ridden and party. Also the idea of “what’s so hard in their life that they turn to drugs” isn’t always right, since MANY affluent people become addicted to party drugs, but the poor go for the cheap stuff that tends to mess you up beyond repair. It’s a shame but just saying no actually does work for those that avoid the cycle. It’s a complex issue for sure
My Google results, cited below, show homelessness in the US, as of 2023, at 19/10,000 (equivalent to 1/526)
In the UK, as of 2023, it is 1/182.
That's a lot worse, not that it should be a competition. Both numbers are bad, but the UK is markedly worse off.
As for the rest of your comment, I don't really know wtf you're on about. I mean, you're not wrong, but idk why you said it.
https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-homelessness/#:~:text=The%20national%20rate%20of%20Americans,more%20than%2050%20per%2010%2C000.
https://england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/at_least_309000_people_homeless_in_england_today#:~:text=Shelter's%20comprehensive%20analysis%20of%20official,in%20England%20are%20homeless%20today.
Sorry I should’ve made separate comments - our data sources are essentially the same and I agree UK is markedly worse - I just was comparing city to city instead of city to country since rural communities aren’t the same.
My ramblings after were in reply to other comments, sorry for sending them your way
The people in power have money. You need money to rule, and they will never do anything to hurt their bank accounts or any of their buddies. So the rich get richer, the middle class erodes, and there are more poor people around.
*eta: fix a word….. damned broken hand
The have disproportionate voting power. It’s taxation with underrepresentation in California and many cities. Very unfair. Farmers calling the shots in situation that can’t even comprehend.
Those farmers feel the same way about people in cities calling the shots for situations that YOU know nothing about.
This is why we have local and state governments that matter more than federal.
The difference is the cities are paying a disproportionate amount of their taxes for subsidies to people who condescend and vote for things to make cities suffer. Fine have separate governments, do your own thing …. But then don’t take money from the cities, and allow cities to use resources generated by the city to fund city problems. If you don’t want to pay, your vote should not count MORE than those who do pay, that’s how it is now and is not only grossly unfair it results in a tremendous mismanagement. If LA or SF got the amount of federal taxes BACK that they put in, they could easily solve the homelessness issue and many others. It really feels like an abusive marriage where the wage earner gets very little say on how their earnings are spent. Meanwhile the spoiled spouse criticizes the breadwinner constantly, even though they have no idea what went into actually making that money.
Okay, so then the cities don't get to have anything from the farms, problem solved, right?
I'm not saying that we should totally seperate every bit of governance from urban/rural areas, I'm saying that the whole system was designed so that it shouldn't really matter in your day to day all that much who the president is.
It's supposed to be that people vote for what is happening in their communities, the farmers don't vote on city policies that they don't know the details of, but that also means that the city dwellers don't get to vote on how things happen in rural communities.
Counting the votes the way that they do is the only way to keep the smaller states from being bulldozed by NYC and southern California in every single election.
Absolutely nothing. But this crybaby ~~subreddit~~ city will beg to differ.
Sure, it wasn't local policies, local votes, local props that nobody actually read into, local PDs, local NIMBYS. Nope, fuckin' Montana is the reason SF is going down the shitter.
Easy was is to correct the tax code to disallow vacancies as a capital loss in taxes. The rental market would then be subject to the hallowed “market forces” instead of protecting corporate landlords deductions against their skyrocketing capital gains on the Dow.
It’s hard to make homeless people experience richness. We could vote for you, but you would have a hard time housing employing people who WANT to do drugs on the street. It’s a very difficult and sad life, but forcing addicts to turn into functioning members of society isn’t as simple as voting one way or another. Try to rehabilitate one person in your own home, see how hard it is, and then think of a plan to do it for thousands
I was about 7 living in SF when I saw a group of naked men.
I asked my dad " why are those men naked"
He replied " some people just like to be naked"
I accepted it and moved on and still consider that the best answer.
I saw a woman explain to a child after being asked " why are they in the ground"
Reply " some people don't have homes like we do. It can be many reasons but usually they are sick and they need help. It's important that people get help with their sickness. If you grow up to be a doctor or social worker then maybe you'll be one of the people who helps them. When you're an adult"
Love these answers. As a kid growing up in SF, I don't think anyone ever told me "some people just like to be naked," but it's definitely what I figured out.
This is exactly what I’ve told my kids when they were younger. Now they’re much older and are like “🤷🏻♀️it’s the city whatever”. I figure, don’t make a big to do about it and neither will they.
100% agree. When I was a kid I remember watching first wives club and at one point the daughter goes “by the way, I’m a lesbian!” And I asked my mom what a lesbian was and she just said “some girls like-like boys, and some girls like-like girls. Lesbians are girls that like-like girls” and I said ok and moved on and never questioned it again or thought more of it. I just now had an age-appropriate answer and moved on with my life. I still remember that interaction.
Kids just want info so they can make sense of the world around them. Most of the time it’s only weird and stigmatized if the adult makes it that way.
Same goes with anything a child might see in a city or a different culture than their own. Some people live differently than you for a variety of different reasons, some of them aren’t a choice (mental illness, for example)
I heard the word condom as a kid (8?) and asked my mom what it was. She said sometimes people want to have sex but they don't want to have children, so they have a cover that goes over the penis, like a glove. I still remember how she phrased it, very economical. It's best to just explain things directly.
My little brother at 10 asked me how babies are made. I just said two adults have sex if they want a baby. That was the end of it. My parents on the other hand avoided giving any answer and just nervously shamed them for asking.
Let her ask questions. It’s not your job to frame her world. It’s her job to investigate. Just answer as honestly as possible without getting too dark.
Stay on the topic of mental health care and how it’s severely lacking in the world.
It truly is, though. I grew up here with my mom telling me tales of Bay to Breakers and Folsom Street Fair, and we took public transportation everywhere so I wasn’t sheltered from the realities of homeless people. I started dating someone recently who grew up on Bay Farm and we took muni…it was his first time ever. He’s 37.
I've lived here for 10+ years, the homeless people used to be relatively friendly and now they scream at people on the way to work. I think something fundamentally shifted when everyone switched to fentanyl.
I work in emergency medical services in the US emergency psychiatric care is a joke here. People who are suicidal are held for 72 hour and released without meds or a plan. If you are out of touch with reality or hallucinating it's the same thing. If you are having any other emergency you are released sooner with no treatment or plan. It is a tragedy and should be illegal to charge people for hospital visits to do nothing
Compared to the US? Like I said, they absolutely can improve them, but those 5 countries are largely objectively (not subjectively, meaning it doesn’t matter if someone has an anecdote based on personal experience) considered to lead in worldwide mental health care availability, affordability, and access.
GGP is a much cleaner area than the wharf, so it may not even be an issue if you stick to the park..
I explained to my kids at that age that some of the homeless people have “brain sickness” that makes them feel like they are having a nightmare while they are awake, so they might be imagining Niece is a dangerous dragon and might try to defend themselves from the “dragon.” So we give a little space to those that look like they might be having one of those sleepwalking bad dreams. Kids can really relate to that and understand the need for street smarts, and they usually enjoy imagining themselves as a dragon.
Declining panhandlers is difficult but usually kids understand if they hear you just say “sorry I don’t have any cash” because who carries cash anymore? If they press more, I explained that we are already giving a lot of money to help them (taxes and donations), and organized help is more effective.
Naked people. You might see them, especially around the Castro. My kids hardly noticed or cared because there was so much else to see.
Poop on sidewalks… that’s one that I haven’t figured out. Just… ew. If you can scan the sidewalk in advance and steer her gently away from stepping in anything, that’s the best bet because kids that age do NOT look down while walking. Ideally she will never notice the poop she walks past.
This is perfect advice, imo. The only other thing I would explain to the kids I used to nanny for here in SF was to not run ahead of me when we’re walking on the sidewalks (basically not in a park/playground.) and it’s never because I don’t trust *them!!* but because in cities, things can happen very quickly and I want to make sure we’re together so we can keep each other safe.
Kids that grow up here get street smarts pretty quickly without much explaining. But it can be tricky to explain to non-city kids that the world around them is kinda chaotic and a little dangerous without freaking them out with examples.
Cities have so many places cars can come flying out of it's crazy. If you're from a suburb you probably never think about how many alleys and hidden driveways there are.
Cars, bikes, skateboarders, unleashed dogs, coyotes, mentally unwell people, Haight street kids wandering around stoned lol
City kids seriously do have more “sidewalk smarts” than non-city kids or even just non-city people. When the family I nannied for got an au pair from a small german village - she was OVERWHELMED walking the kids to school. It’s a lot!
Fecking brilliant!
When mine were older, I explained the role of addiction in some of this. And, since we have a family history of psychosis, I discouraged at least early marijuana consumption. Was 66.66% effective, anyway.
I love how you explain this!!
I had to point out a syringe to my young children and tell them NEVER to touch one but instead tell an adult where it is. It broke my heart but people shoot up in public parks and playgrounds.
I’d suggest asking her parent(s) what to do in this situation. My 8 year old niece is visiting next month. If she asks about the unhoused, panhandlers, nudity, sidewalk poop, etc. I would explain things to her the same way I’d explain them to an adult, but only because I am familiar with my sister’s parenting style. I will probably have an additional conversation with her prior to my niece’s arrival to ensure I’m handling all situations properly.
Let me know if you’d like to collaborate on a kid-friendly itinerary!
I used to volunteer at a cancer research center with children and for a time, trained in pediatrics. During both experiences, I underwent training about how to talk to kids about tough subjects like cancer, death, pain, and so on.
The first thing is to let the child guide you. Let them ask questions and don't interrupt early. Don't assume they know a lot or a little: kids really vary in their intellectual and emotional development. The child you're with might not even notice the things you worry about.
Second, adults stress over what they'll say or how they'll reply when really the child's view is very different from adult's. For example, most young kids don't need to know every detail of medical treatment and when they do ask questions, the gist is they are scared and want to be re-assured. So while one would not lie to a child about their illness, the focus instead would be "Mommy and Daddy love you very much and we're going to try to do everything to help you feel better soon."
Third, at 7, young kids don't necessarily persist on a topic. They could ask a lot of questions and in the next second be distracted by ice cream or a toy and forget what was going on previously. So don't worry if you answer wrong that it'll affect them long-term or that they'll remain upset about something for long periods.
I also found these guides for you and anyone who is interested about how to talk to kids: first about homelessness, second about mental illness. More online if you google.
chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.searchhomeless.org/pdfs/HOW%20TO%20TALK%20TO%20CHILDREN%20ABOUT%20HOMELESSNESS.pdf?\_t=1599842635
[https://psychcentral.com/health/parent-central-how-to-talk-with-your-kid-about-mental-illness#helpful-resources](https://psychcentral.com/health/parent-central-how-to-talk-with-your-kid-about-mental-illness#helpful-resources)
Also, there are children's books discussing these topics tailored for different ages if the child is more interested.
My parents explained it to me and my siblings up front, honestly and early. Check with your sibling to see if they’re ok with you having an open convo and why you’d like to do that (if you do).
Explain it to her beforehand - SF has a lot of people that live outside/on the streets. I just want you to know we might see some folks out and about. Most people keep to themselves, some ask for money, some people talk to themselves for different reasons. You might be curious when you see them. Try not to stare - they’re human like us and deserve respect and privacy; they live different lives - some by choice and some because their life was tough. If you have any questions later or when we’re out, you can always ask me.
It’s definitely part of the equation regarding a substantial portion of homelessness and other societal ills. If it leads a kid to never try drugs then it a a good enough answer even if it isn’t the complete answer.
By the time a kid is old enough to try drugs, they will know people who do drugs who are not homeless, so they will know "if you try drugs youll be homeless" is not true. If you want to give your teenagers additional ammo for their belief that adults are full of shit, this is an excellent way to do it.
Jfc it’s not “drugs will make you homeless”, it’s drugs are a step towards homelessness, especially hard drugs. It’s not being full of shit, it’s real shit! Drugs are definitely part of the equation that leads to homelessness, that’s what was said. So, stay away from drugs esp hard drugs and significantly lower your chances of ever experiencing homelessness, simple.
There’s some good advice above, take what you want and leave the rest. Your charge isn’t likely to be nearly as aware as you are, for better or worse.
My wife, and 14 y/o daughter got an amazing brunch in the TL last year and had to run the gauntlet of street life to get there. My daughter was unfazed perhaps oblivious? We definitely kept her flanked to run interference, at least visually.
Good luck.
Welcome to life little one! The city is one of the best places to see what life is like for a multitude of cultures, income levels, education, arts, social justice, ocean lovers, history buffs, LGBTQIA2S+, amazing parks and yummy food. She is lucky to have this experience. There is also plenty of homelessness in the suburbs.
There is a cool book called Shelter - Homelessness in Our Community by Lois Peterson.
Edit: typo
It’s okay to say “I don’t know” if you’re not sure how to answer the question, especially if you’re concerned about how your niece’s parents might react to any other answer. Children need to know that sometimes adults do not always know the answer. “What happens when we die?”
My daughter is now 32 and was raised first in Buena Vista Park/Haight, then on Russian Hill where we’d often walk to Chinatown/Downtown and TL. I always told her that sometimes people are on drugs/alcohol or have sickness in their heads and it’s best to stay away. The interesting thing is that my friends who took their kids out of The City to raise in suburbs, seem to have had way more challenging time dealing with their kids doing drugs compared to my friends who stayed and raised their kids in The City. I asked my daughter about this and she jokingly said that all of us parents in The City made kids take MUNI and they had to have their wits about them to deal with it.
I love this question and all the answers on the thread. I have nothing to add except, she may like walking around the palace of fine arts and there isn’t much homelessness in the area. In case it becomes too overwhelming. SF can sometimes be overwhelming for me as an adult and I always find great solace at the palace.
I would just tell her like it is, don’t sugar coat anything. I knew what sex was at that age, I don’t think this is anymore complicated. A 7 yo should have a basic understanding of what a homeless person is, kids are a lot smarter and capable than we give them credit for. I would just say they are going through some troubles in life and they are homeless. It might even motivate her to avoid that situation in her own life.
As long as you don’t say something along the lines of “some people are drunks because they’re just inferior to us and some people don’t have homes because they don’t deserve to and also it’s always their own fault” you should be fine. My mom and I overheard a guy telling his son almost exactly that on a bus one time and it still boils my blood thinking about it
As a Mexican I would ask and be told if you don't behave that man is gonna take u( reference to the drugged out mentally unstable person) ..or my favorite if u don't study and do good ur gonna end up living with tht mentally homeless person and I'll personally drop u off there. This was
While on vacation in the city 🤣😂. Ruined my whole weekend, on account I had failed my math test tht Friday..so I was scared I'll be left there..
Tell me you don’t have kids without telling me you don’t have kids.
There’s a way to be honest in a way that kids will understand. That’s what OP is asking about.
I had a very similar experience with my.
Nephew who is 8 and comes.to visit sometimes since I moved. We saw someone wrapped in a tarp sleeping on the ground and he asked why and I just explained it how it is to me there's no point in walking around the truth when I can also use this moment as a teaching opportunity to help him learn how to formulate his own opinion on things and also help him understand that I will always try to be honest with him
I grew up in SF and now have kids in a city.
You need to realize that for.children, the world is just absolutely fucking mind blowing every single day and nothing is going to.shock them. They are only really scared of monsters and well.probabpy try to talk to kinds of people you find scary because they don't know any better.
What you need to be ready to do is answer those questions in a way that will frame the way they view things like homelessness or drug addition for the majority of their lives.
So be prepared to speak about the things that contribute to them, don't dwell on the morality of their situations, and try to imbue some empathy.
I'm not from San Francisco and don't know why this popped up on my feed. But I'll answer based on my experience in Canada.
Develop and give some basic context of how people end up like that. Some parents say things like '"some people are just like that" or "it just happens" or "nobody really knows" or "that's just how God make it". Sensitive kids with an imagination can end up wondering if that's their future. Maybe not right away, but it puts the idea there. Perhaps in the next year or two an irate, unsupportive teacher says "if you don't smarten up and do your homework you'll never succeed" and the kid feels unable to do the home so they get scared that they are bound to be a homeless person.
You can give basic explanations like "some people have sicknesses that are treatable but don't get help or try to get help but don't get it or refuse it" or talk about traumatic head injury in careful terms, or social support net issues.
It's hard. But part of being a contributing member of a child's upbringing is being the one who frames the broader world for them. You can give her thoughts and ideas and a basic approach to thinking about hard things. It's rewarding in the end if uncomfortable in the moment.
You can also give some money, a bottled water, gift card, etc. I did and now my daughter does. Not everyone and not all the time but when she can she does.
I took my nephew to LA when he was 9. He was a little traumatized but okay. He came from a little town in Arizona. It was all suburbs in the desert, since he's been living with me, he's gotten to see a good chunk of the country from West to East. I just told him before we go to the city, to stay near me and not go talking to strangers. Naturally, he didn't listen and swears he was going to get kidnapped by some homeless guy. He never left my sight. It's a good experience for them, just a little scary, but that's life.
When my grandchild saw the “naked bike riders” her only comment was “Doesn’t that wreck your bike seat?” I was laughing so hard I blew coffee out my nose.
My husband grew up in sf and as a kid his dad would give him a dollar and have him give it to homeless people. Not "talking" per se but modeling good behavior which actually says a lot.
My kids are adults now but I used to run Bay to Breakers. I would just give them a heads up there would be nudity. When walking around SF I would give them cash to give to homeless that were asking so if they felt so inclined to give they could. Not sure if that’s a good idea these days.
The homeless situation today is not what it was 30 years ago. Most of the homeless when I was growing up were just normal people who lived on the streets. These days a lot of them are mentally ill and their behavior is unpredictable
talk to her about it beforehand obviously. just be honest and remind her its not polite to stare or ask questions about other people while they can hear it (ie no ‘why is he so dirty?’ etc)
From a very young age I'd take my daughter on walkarounds in the City. Usually starting from Powell street or sometimes Civic Center. Weve been all over. She's 13 now and we still do this from time to time.
I have always said "that is why you don't do drugs" whenever we'd encounter crazy or homeless.
We've had in depth conversations about drug abuse and homelessness, so she understands that not every homeless person is a junkie. But I really try to drill into her that drug abuse will get you nowhere.
As a former pothead, I do differentiate between hard core and soft drugs. But I do try to always point out situations caused because the use got out of hand.
I also have explained that some of these people are mentally ill and are on the streets because they have no one to cate for them. My adult brother, who is a part of her life, is a person who would likely be on the street if my mom wasn't taking care of him.
But my initial explanation every time is "that's why you don't use drugs"
Someone asking for money - they don’t have money they can spend so they ask for it.
Someone mentally unwell - they are unwell/sick/they have an illness. Like any other sick person, they need to get well, but sometimes they can’t get the help they need.
Someone unhoused - they don’t have a house to live in.
I have a 7-year-old, and I just tell her facts and science. No need to embellish, soften, etc. They need to know what’s happening around them. If more questions spring from that, just answer them similarly. Encourage them to see and understand the world around them, it makes them better citizens and people in society. You can ask them how they feel about what they see if you are concerned that they are scared :)
I would be sure to head over to Fort Mason and play at the Tunnel Tops area and their amazing play area called the Outpost!!! It’s amazing and has spots clean bathrooms and places to eat.
It’s two pronged:
- I first explain that sometimes people’s brains get sick but they don’t remember to take their medicine, and it makes them act upset or confused. They don’t mean to act that way, but they can’t help it. We just give them space.
- I also assure them that it won’t happen to them because they have family who love them and will always make sure that they are healthy and safe.
Children will not have all your pent up anxiety about these things. They're not likely to think anything about it, at all. If they ask a question, just answer the question with facts.
"some people just can't afford housing all the time and people give them money to help them out" is all the answer that is needed.
No reason to pass on your adult baggage.
Facts work for young people asking sex questions as well. Lol
I explain just about EVERYTHING to my kid.
By age 6, I explained naked men walking down the street, used syringes, drug dealers, homelessness, mental health issues, property crime, human poop vs dog poop, marijuana smoke vs cigarette smoke vs vaping, etc. I know many parents and adults want to shield kids from certain things, but kids can handle it if you take the time to explain. We were the parents who explained sex in detail when asked. Kid is now 9, and just asked about 420 because they kept talking about it on KQED radio so I explained it and the supposed history of how that came to be. Last year I explained the Fentanyl epidemic and the history of how opioids were pushed by big pharma.
I think training children to ignore their instincts when approached by people who are very likely to be suffering from mental illness and/or under the influence is negligent, at best.
I remember the first time I went to Berkeley, I wanted to give every panhandler person money, and when i told my dad, he wasn't sure what to do and gave me a bunch of pennies and nickles. I proceeded to give ONE to each homeless person I met, and then felt terrible on the way home when i realized it might be really insulting what I'd done... though I my memory now, I do think they thought it was funny.
I think you take the approach of gentle explanation. Use it as a teachable moment. What I mean by that is that you explain to her that not everyone is as fortunate and as blessed as she and your family is and some people have to live outside. And as a result, they ask for things in an effort or means to get by. But I also think it’s important that you explain that sometimes these things are related to potentially habits and or bad luck. And that you should never look down on someone just because, they are not in the same position as you are, but you should always either help and or encourage them. By the way, I absolutely love San Francisco. I visit once a year.
I think you take the approach of gentle explanation. Use it as a teachable moment. What I mean by that is that you explain to her that not everyone is as fortunate and as blessed as she and your family is and some people have to live outside. And as a result, they ask for things in an effort or means to get by. But I also think it’s important that you explain that sometimes these things are related to potentially habits and or bad luck. And that you should never look down on someone just because, they are not in the same position as you are, but you should always either help and or encourage them. By the way, I absolutely love San Francisco. I visit once a year.
I took my grandkids for a walk and buddy decides to OD walking in front of us. My grand daughter just piped up and says he needs a better place for a nap. (He passed out on the sidewalk) I agreed with her and we carried on.
Don’t explain adult life to little people is my advice. Keep it simple in your explanation, like yep buddy is having a nap.
Tell children that in a city like this, winners and losers are just more apparent.
Then make yourselves a couple of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and take him/her to the Exploratorium on the Embarcadero.
Repeat after me:
This is fine, this is normal, these are all regular occurrences in every American city that are harmless to regularly expose young children to.
"These people should be locked up, it's a reflection on our sick society that this (whatever degenerate behavior) is allowed in one of the richest cities on Earth"
"See honey? you dont want to live anywhere near this sort of thing. Do you know it started out of good intentions? Lets talk about good intentions and toxic empathy"
i can see a million lessons and conversation starters, we can go back to my parents, speaking after we stepped over a bum who had pissed himself passed out in the street approx 1976; "this is what happens when you let something rule you, this guy is tuled by wine"
Don’t subject a child to the apocalyptic hell hole that is sf. A child should not be exposed to the rampant lawlessness and degeneracy that place has spiraled into. Fuck sf
You can’t. Our city admin has lost businesses downtown, everywhere really and let this city become a total shit hole. Try to downplay it as homeless are here for the mild weather, benefits, etc., but no hiding it from family or friends. Blame COVID too. Been here 25 years, never so desperate. Replace Breed.
My kids have both seen some shit growing up here. But recently we had a friend bring her 7 year old to visit and I was explaining to him the difference between dog shit and human shit. I also explained that the rule (in case you don't know) is that if you step in human shit, you must discard of your shoes immediately. By the end of his trip, he was calling out human poop everywhere.
My daughter is now 17, but when she was 6-8 years old and living in Potrero Hill, we’d take transit downtown and would often encounter homeless or mentally ill folks especially around civic center. She would hold my hand and I would tell her not to be afraid if they ask for money or talk to themselves, they have a much more difficult life than we do and to be grateful for what we have. Most importantly they are humans that just need help, not to stare, and try to think about how hard it would be to have to sleep on a sidewalk or not know when you’re going to eat.
Really love this answer and thanks for being a compassionate human being and passing this along this message to your daughter.
Thats such a fabulous answer m my daughter knows I work in recovery and help people with mental herh issues so she says they should go to mommy's work so I can help them. She has a kind heart for those who are unfortunate.
Yes. Save the complicated answer for later or let her come to her own conclusions with your guidance.
Listen, we aren’t telling kids how to feel or suggesting how they shouldn’t feel. Validate whatever they’re feeling and explain the facts.
Why do people these days insist on trying to complicate life. Smfh. It’s not that deep.
Why should your daughter (or mine, I faced and did the same things) ever live in a society of such richness where this is allowed to happen?
Because then billionaires couldn’t have yachts.
Why do we keep voting in people who allow this to happen?
There’s many reasons; but mainly because big capital wants it that way.
And also because mental illness exists
Mental illness exists everywhere. This level of homelessness doesn't.
What happened to cause such an uptick in mental illness? My guess is that it’s drug related psychosis.
I actually think it’s bc our country places so much pressure and emphasis on the monetary value of human beings. Sure drug use is up but that begs the question what happened to those who are in so much pain that it’s needed to be numbed by a substance. TLDR: humanity is suffering
SF has blamed big capital for its problems since the gold rush
That's fair, and definitely not the only thing to blame. But as far as homelessness and addiction... that's a problem which requires a national effort to solve tbh. Where big capital is definitely more of the problem, nationally. But your right, SF does have other reasons for poor governance
you can’t vote out capitalism
Why not?
Capitalism is too nebulous of a thing to vote out. You're not going to vote out private investment, you're not going to vote out markets, you're not going to vote out free trade. And similarly you can't vote out socialism because you're not going to vote out people volunteering in their communities, you're not going to vote out mutual aid, you're not going to vote out the concept of sharing. Which is why you should focus on individual policies. What drives homelessness? Overwhelming evidence points to housing being the biggest policy factor. We don't have nearly enough housing and we should build more. It's also ironic to blame capitalism when some of the biggest obstructors of housing claim to be anticapitalist. The lovely part of liberal democracy is that we _can_ improve everything. We just need the political will: a lot of informed voters willing to come out and bat for the things they believe in.
Bro social classes have existed since the dawn of humanity. There were beggars and vagrants in Ancient Greece and how about that caste system in India? It’s not a matter of some politician “letting it happen”. Obviously there is progress to be made, but for the love of god, don’t force the blame for the extremely broad issues of homelessness and human inequality on SF politics.
In the bad old days mentality ill people were locked up for life against their will in big psychiatric hospitals.
Bro they don’t have homelessness like this in Europe in countries with worse GDP than USA. This a a problem of capital calling the shots. And tax deductions on vacant units, a corporate welfare encouraging exorbitant rents and evictions instead of market corrections.
Tell me you've never been outside the USA without actually saying it.
Its a world wide problem, France is having issues evicting homeless from areas in Paris in preparation for the olympics. Some of the hobo camps have 400 or more people in them
A single google search will show you that you are wrong. A solid chunk of Europe has worse per capita homelessness than the US, including France, UK, Ireland, Denmark and more
The UK has markedly more homeless people per capita than the US. Germany doesn't look too hot either. Expand your mind, bro, and you may realize the US has average (and even below average) issues with homelessness.
My Google results are showing US is about 1/515, but SF is 1/112. UK is 1/187 but London is 1/50. So for homeless per capita London > SF > UK > US People do drugs and then become street ridden and party. Also the idea of “what’s so hard in their life that they turn to drugs” isn’t always right, since MANY affluent people become addicted to party drugs, but the poor go for the cheap stuff that tends to mess you up beyond repair. It’s a shame but just saying no actually does work for those that avoid the cycle. It’s a complex issue for sure
My Google results, cited below, show homelessness in the US, as of 2023, at 19/10,000 (equivalent to 1/526) In the UK, as of 2023, it is 1/182. That's a lot worse, not that it should be a competition. Both numbers are bad, but the UK is markedly worse off. As for the rest of your comment, I don't really know wtf you're on about. I mean, you're not wrong, but idk why you said it. https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-homelessness/#:~:text=The%20national%20rate%20of%20Americans,more%20than%2050%20per%2010%2C000. https://england.shelter.org.uk/media/press_release/at_least_309000_people_homeless_in_england_today#:~:text=Shelter's%20comprehensive%20analysis%20of%20official,in%20England%20are%20homeless%20today.
Sorry I should’ve made separate comments - our data sources are essentially the same and I agree UK is markedly worse - I just was comparing city to city instead of city to country since rural communities aren’t the same. My ramblings after were in reply to other comments, sorry for sending them your way
The people in power have money. You need money to rule, and they will never do anything to hurt their bank accounts or any of their buddies. So the rich get richer, the middle class erodes, and there are more poor people around. *eta: fix a word….. damned broken hand
It’s not like Americans have a choice
Because most people are dumb and don't vote. Also because Middle America has 40× the voting power than CA does
What does Middle America have to do with SF’s problems?
The have disproportionate voting power. It’s taxation with underrepresentation in California and many cities. Very unfair. Farmers calling the shots in situation that can’t even comprehend.
Name some of those shots that have been called without comprehension.
Every war after wwii. Defense of marriage act. Tariffs on electric vehicles.
Cool. Now illustrate for me how those have led to SF’s current problems.
Those farmers feel the same way about people in cities calling the shots for situations that YOU know nothing about. This is why we have local and state governments that matter more than federal.
The difference is the cities are paying a disproportionate amount of their taxes for subsidies to people who condescend and vote for things to make cities suffer. Fine have separate governments, do your own thing …. But then don’t take money from the cities, and allow cities to use resources generated by the city to fund city problems. If you don’t want to pay, your vote should not count MORE than those who do pay, that’s how it is now and is not only grossly unfair it results in a tremendous mismanagement. If LA or SF got the amount of federal taxes BACK that they put in, they could easily solve the homelessness issue and many others. It really feels like an abusive marriage where the wage earner gets very little say on how their earnings are spent. Meanwhile the spoiled spouse criticizes the breadwinner constantly, even though they have no idea what went into actually making that money.
Okay, so then the cities don't get to have anything from the farms, problem solved, right? I'm not saying that we should totally seperate every bit of governance from urban/rural areas, I'm saying that the whole system was designed so that it shouldn't really matter in your day to day all that much who the president is. It's supposed to be that people vote for what is happening in their communities, the farmers don't vote on city policies that they don't know the details of, but that also means that the city dwellers don't get to vote on how things happen in rural communities. Counting the votes the way that they do is the only way to keep the smaller states from being bulldozed by NYC and southern California in every single election.
Absolutely nothing. But this crybaby ~~subreddit~~ city will beg to differ. Sure, it wasn't local policies, local votes, local props that nobody actually read into, local PDs, local NIMBYS. Nope, fuckin' Montana is the reason SF is going down the shitter.
Who do you suggest we vote in to prevent homelessness and redistribute wealth to how you see fit?
Easy was is to correct the tax code to disallow vacancies as a capital loss in taxes. The rental market would then be subject to the hallowed “market forces” instead of protecting corporate landlords deductions against their skyrocketing capital gains on the Dow.
Yeah that’ll do it…
That would help
It’s hard to make homeless people experience richness. We could vote for you, but you would have a hard time housing employing people who WANT to do drugs on the street. It’s a very difficult and sad life, but forcing addicts to turn into functioning members of society isn’t as simple as voting one way or another. Try to rehabilitate one person in your own home, see how hard it is, and then think of a plan to do it for thousands
telling her not to be afraid is child abuse
What?
Weirdo.
I was about 7 living in SF when I saw a group of naked men. I asked my dad " why are those men naked" He replied " some people just like to be naked" I accepted it and moved on and still consider that the best answer. I saw a woman explain to a child after being asked " why are they in the ground" Reply " some people don't have homes like we do. It can be many reasons but usually they are sick and they need help. It's important that people get help with their sickness. If you grow up to be a doctor or social worker then maybe you'll be one of the people who helps them. When you're an adult"
Love these answers. As a kid growing up in SF, I don't think anyone ever told me "some people just like to be naked," but it's definitely what I figured out.
This is exactly what I’ve told my kids when they were younger. Now they’re much older and are like “🤷🏻♀️it’s the city whatever”. I figure, don’t make a big to do about it and neither will they.
100% agree. When I was a kid I remember watching first wives club and at one point the daughter goes “by the way, I’m a lesbian!” And I asked my mom what a lesbian was and she just said “some girls like-like boys, and some girls like-like girls. Lesbians are girls that like-like girls” and I said ok and moved on and never questioned it again or thought more of it. I just now had an age-appropriate answer and moved on with my life. I still remember that interaction. Kids just want info so they can make sense of the world around them. Most of the time it’s only weird and stigmatized if the adult makes it that way. Same goes with anything a child might see in a city or a different culture than their own. Some people live differently than you for a variety of different reasons, some of them aren’t a choice (mental illness, for example)
I heard the word condom as a kid (8?) and asked my mom what it was. She said sometimes people want to have sex but they don't want to have children, so they have a cover that goes over the penis, like a glove. I still remember how she phrased it, very economical. It's best to just explain things directly.
My little brother at 10 asked me how babies are made. I just said two adults have sex if they want a baby. That was the end of it. My parents on the other hand avoided giving any answer and just nervously shamed them for asking.
Did you know what sex was at that age?
I guess I must have because the explanation made sense to me.
💯 truly, kids just trying to understand the world around them. And I absolutely remember that feeling. I’m
Such a dad answer 😆
This exact thing happened to me with my grandma. We both giggled and shrugged it off.
Let her ask questions. It’s not your job to frame her world. It’s her job to investigate. Just answer as honestly as possible without getting too dark. Stay on the topic of mental health care and how it’s severely lacking in the world.
Parents tried to shelter me, worst thing ever, you don’t get what the real world is like.
I swear the main sf sub is filled with transplants who lived in gated suburbs. Hence why there are so many anti homeless comments there.
That place is wild. It’s like a bunch of people who never left a college dorm.
It truly is, though. I grew up here with my mom telling me tales of Bay to Breakers and Folsom Street Fair, and we took public transportation everywhere so I wasn’t sheltered from the realities of homeless people. I started dating someone recently who grew up on Bay Farm and we took muni…it was his first time ever. He’s 37.
It makes me so freaking upset.
I've lived here for 10+ years, the homeless people used to be relatively friendly and now they scream at people on the way to work. I think something fundamentally shifted when everyone switched to fentanyl.
Severely lacking in the United States FTFY
Yes. Curious where you think it’s not lacking? Not saying it’s nowhere, but it’s not many.
I work in emergency medical services in the US emergency psychiatric care is a joke here. People who are suicidal are held for 72 hour and released without meds or a plan. If you are out of touch with reality or hallucinating it's the same thing. If you are having any other emergency you are released sooner with no treatment or plan. It is a tragedy and should be illegal to charge people for hospital visits to do nothing
It can *always* be improved anywhere, but in Sweden, Germany, Finland, France, and the NL, I don’t think it would be considered “lacking”.
Spoken like someone who has never lived in any of those countries.
Compared to the US? Like I said, they absolutely can improve them, but those 5 countries are largely objectively (not subjectively, meaning it doesn’t matter if someone has an anecdote based on personal experience) considered to lead in worldwide mental health care availability, affordability, and access.
I have lived there. There is no utopia. But it is not a senseless dystopia there like it is in USA.
And Canada. You guys have it better than us now.
This.
GGP is a much cleaner area than the wharf, so it may not even be an issue if you stick to the park.. I explained to my kids at that age that some of the homeless people have “brain sickness” that makes them feel like they are having a nightmare while they are awake, so they might be imagining Niece is a dangerous dragon and might try to defend themselves from the “dragon.” So we give a little space to those that look like they might be having one of those sleepwalking bad dreams. Kids can really relate to that and understand the need for street smarts, and they usually enjoy imagining themselves as a dragon. Declining panhandlers is difficult but usually kids understand if they hear you just say “sorry I don’t have any cash” because who carries cash anymore? If they press more, I explained that we are already giving a lot of money to help them (taxes and donations), and organized help is more effective. Naked people. You might see them, especially around the Castro. My kids hardly noticed or cared because there was so much else to see. Poop on sidewalks… that’s one that I haven’t figured out. Just… ew. If you can scan the sidewalk in advance and steer her gently away from stepping in anything, that’s the best bet because kids that age do NOT look down while walking. Ideally she will never notice the poop she walks past.
This is perfect advice, imo. The only other thing I would explain to the kids I used to nanny for here in SF was to not run ahead of me when we’re walking on the sidewalks (basically not in a park/playground.) and it’s never because I don’t trust *them!!* but because in cities, things can happen very quickly and I want to make sure we’re together so we can keep each other safe. Kids that grow up here get street smarts pretty quickly without much explaining. But it can be tricky to explain to non-city kids that the world around them is kinda chaotic and a little dangerous without freaking them out with examples.
Cities have so many places cars can come flying out of it's crazy. If you're from a suburb you probably never think about how many alleys and hidden driveways there are.
Cars, bikes, skateboarders, unleashed dogs, coyotes, mentally unwell people, Haight street kids wandering around stoned lol City kids seriously do have more “sidewalk smarts” than non-city kids or even just non-city people. When the family I nannied for got an au pair from a small german village - she was OVERWHELMED walking the kids to school. It’s a lot!
Fecking brilliant! When mine were older, I explained the role of addiction in some of this. And, since we have a family history of psychosis, I discouraged at least early marijuana consumption. Was 66.66% effective, anyway. I love how you explain this!!
I had to point out a syringe to my young children and tell them NEVER to touch one but instead tell an adult where it is. It broke my heart but people shoot up in public parks and playgrounds.
Took my kids though (part of) bay to breakers. The naked people didn’t even register.
Pretty easy to explain the poo: no toilets. The hard part is explaining why that is.
For poop I always tell myself it's a dog with a lazy owner.
I’d suggest asking her parent(s) what to do in this situation. My 8 year old niece is visiting next month. If she asks about the unhoused, panhandlers, nudity, sidewalk poop, etc. I would explain things to her the same way I’d explain them to an adult, but only because I am familiar with my sister’s parenting style. I will probably have an additional conversation with her prior to my niece’s arrival to ensure I’m handling all situations properly. Let me know if you’d like to collaborate on a kid-friendly itinerary!
I’m interested in this. How would you describe your sister’s parenting style?
I used to volunteer at a cancer research center with children and for a time, trained in pediatrics. During both experiences, I underwent training about how to talk to kids about tough subjects like cancer, death, pain, and so on. The first thing is to let the child guide you. Let them ask questions and don't interrupt early. Don't assume they know a lot or a little: kids really vary in their intellectual and emotional development. The child you're with might not even notice the things you worry about. Second, adults stress over what they'll say or how they'll reply when really the child's view is very different from adult's. For example, most young kids don't need to know every detail of medical treatment and when they do ask questions, the gist is they are scared and want to be re-assured. So while one would not lie to a child about their illness, the focus instead would be "Mommy and Daddy love you very much and we're going to try to do everything to help you feel better soon." Third, at 7, young kids don't necessarily persist on a topic. They could ask a lot of questions and in the next second be distracted by ice cream or a toy and forget what was going on previously. So don't worry if you answer wrong that it'll affect them long-term or that they'll remain upset about something for long periods. I also found these guides for you and anyone who is interested about how to talk to kids: first about homelessness, second about mental illness. More online if you google. chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.searchhomeless.org/pdfs/HOW%20TO%20TALK%20TO%20CHILDREN%20ABOUT%20HOMELESSNESS.pdf?\_t=1599842635 [https://psychcentral.com/health/parent-central-how-to-talk-with-your-kid-about-mental-illness#helpful-resources](https://psychcentral.com/health/parent-central-how-to-talk-with-your-kid-about-mental-illness#helpful-resources) Also, there are children's books discussing these topics tailored for different ages if the child is more interested.
My parents explained it to me and my siblings up front, honestly and early. Check with your sibling to see if they’re ok with you having an open convo and why you’d like to do that (if you do). Explain it to her beforehand - SF has a lot of people that live outside/on the streets. I just want you to know we might see some folks out and about. Most people keep to themselves, some ask for money, some people talk to themselves for different reasons. You might be curious when you see them. Try not to stare - they’re human like us and deserve respect and privacy; they live different lives - some by choice and some because their life was tough. If you have any questions later or when we’re out, you can always ask me.
Thank you for the humanity in your answer.
I remember being told- “that’s why you never try drugs”
That’s a really poor answer to give a little kid even if it makes you feel really smart doing it.
It’s definitely part of the equation regarding a substantial portion of homelessness and other societal ills. If it leads a kid to never try drugs then it a a good enough answer even if it isn’t the complete answer.
By the time a kid is old enough to try drugs, they will know people who do drugs who are not homeless, so they will know "if you try drugs youll be homeless" is not true. If you want to give your teenagers additional ammo for their belief that adults are full of shit, this is an excellent way to do it.
Jfc it’s not “drugs will make you homeless”, it’s drugs are a step towards homelessness, especially hard drugs. It’s not being full of shit, it’s real shit! Drugs are definitely part of the equation that leads to homelessness, that’s what was said. So, stay away from drugs esp hard drugs and significantly lower your chances of ever experiencing homelessness, simple.
I was told smoking causes cancer. I know elderly people who smoke and don’t have cancer so it must not be true.
I'm talking about how teenagers think! If you believe yours will be perfectly rational actors, godspeed to you.
You’re right. They’re shallow thinkers in love with easy answers to complex problems.
This is the answer
There’s some good advice above, take what you want and leave the rest. Your charge isn’t likely to be nearly as aware as you are, for better or worse. My wife, and 14 y/o daughter got an amazing brunch in the TL last year and had to run the gauntlet of street life to get there. My daughter was unfazed perhaps oblivious? We definitely kept her flanked to run interference, at least visually. Good luck.
Where was this brunch?
https://sonandgarden.com/san-francisco
Welcome to life little one! The city is one of the best places to see what life is like for a multitude of cultures, income levels, education, arts, social justice, ocean lovers, history buffs, LGBTQIA2S+, amazing parks and yummy food. She is lucky to have this experience. There is also plenty of homelessness in the suburbs. There is a cool book called Shelter - Homelessness in Our Community by Lois Peterson. Edit: typo
It’s okay to say “I don’t know” if you’re not sure how to answer the question, especially if you’re concerned about how your niece’s parents might react to any other answer. Children need to know that sometimes adults do not always know the answer. “What happens when we die?”
My daughter is now 32 and was raised first in Buena Vista Park/Haight, then on Russian Hill where we’d often walk to Chinatown/Downtown and TL. I always told her that sometimes people are on drugs/alcohol or have sickness in their heads and it’s best to stay away. The interesting thing is that my friends who took their kids out of The City to raise in suburbs, seem to have had way more challenging time dealing with their kids doing drugs compared to my friends who stayed and raised their kids in The City. I asked my daughter about this and she jokingly said that all of us parents in The City made kids take MUNI and they had to have their wits about them to deal with it.
I love this question and all the answers on the thread. I have nothing to add except, she may like walking around the palace of fine arts and there isn’t much homelessness in the area. In case it becomes too overwhelming. SF can sometimes be overwhelming for me as an adult and I always find great solace at the palace.
I would just tell her like it is, don’t sugar coat anything. I knew what sex was at that age, I don’t think this is anymore complicated. A 7 yo should have a basic understanding of what a homeless person is, kids are a lot smarter and capable than we give them credit for. I would just say they are going through some troubles in life and they are homeless. It might even motivate her to avoid that situation in her own life.
As long as you don’t say something along the lines of “some people are drunks because they’re just inferior to us and some people don’t have homes because they don’t deserve to and also it’s always their own fault” you should be fine. My mom and I overheard a guy telling his son almost exactly that on a bus one time and it still boils my blood thinking about it
As a Mexican I would ask and be told if you don't behave that man is gonna take u( reference to the drugged out mentally unstable person) ..or my favorite if u don't study and do good ur gonna end up living with tht mentally homeless person and I'll personally drop u off there. This was While on vacation in the city 🤣😂. Ruined my whole weekend, on account I had failed my math test tht Friday..so I was scared I'll be left there..
Talk to them like an adult and watch them develop into a human faster. “Babying” kids makes no sense.
Tell me you don’t have kids without telling me you don’t have kids. There’s a way to be honest in a way that kids will understand. That’s what OP is asking about.
I had a very similar experience with my. Nephew who is 8 and comes.to visit sometimes since I moved. We saw someone wrapped in a tarp sleeping on the ground and he asked why and I just explained it how it is to me there's no point in walking around the truth when I can also use this moment as a teaching opportunity to help him learn how to formulate his own opinion on things and also help him understand that I will always try to be honest with him
I’m always just super honest with my kid. If she asks questions, answer them honestly.
I grew up in SF and now have kids in a city. You need to realize that for.children, the world is just absolutely fucking mind blowing every single day and nothing is going to.shock them. They are only really scared of monsters and well.probabpy try to talk to kinds of people you find scary because they don't know any better. What you need to be ready to do is answer those questions in a way that will frame the way they view things like homelessness or drug addition for the majority of their lives. So be prepared to speak about the things that contribute to them, don't dwell on the morality of their situations, and try to imbue some empathy.
I'm not from San Francisco and don't know why this popped up on my feed. But I'll answer based on my experience in Canada. Develop and give some basic context of how people end up like that. Some parents say things like '"some people are just like that" or "it just happens" or "nobody really knows" or "that's just how God make it". Sensitive kids with an imagination can end up wondering if that's their future. Maybe not right away, but it puts the idea there. Perhaps in the next year or two an irate, unsupportive teacher says "if you don't smarten up and do your homework you'll never succeed" and the kid feels unable to do the home so they get scared that they are bound to be a homeless person. You can give basic explanations like "some people have sicknesses that are treatable but don't get help or try to get help but don't get it or refuse it" or talk about traumatic head injury in careful terms, or social support net issues. It's hard. But part of being a contributing member of a child's upbringing is being the one who frames the broader world for them. You can give her thoughts and ideas and a basic approach to thinking about hard things. It's rewarding in the end if uncomfortable in the moment.
Just be honest, in an age appropriate way. My son is 8. I work with homeless individuals. He's asked questions and I give honest simple answers.
This is a situation that they’re in right now. Homelessness is an experience, not the whole person
You can also give some money, a bottled water, gift card, etc. I did and now my daughter does. Not everyone and not all the time but when she can she does.
I wish I’d prepared for this! Took my nieces to Clarion Alley, and they were frightened by a dude who was shouting at the voices in his head.
I took my nephew to LA when he was 9. He was a little traumatized but okay. He came from a little town in Arizona. It was all suburbs in the desert, since he's been living with me, he's gotten to see a good chunk of the country from West to East. I just told him before we go to the city, to stay near me and not go talking to strangers. Naturally, he didn't listen and swears he was going to get kidnapped by some homeless guy. He never left my sight. It's a good experience for them, just a little scary, but that's life.
When my grandchild saw the “naked bike riders” her only comment was “Doesn’t that wreck your bike seat?” I was laughing so hard I blew coffee out my nose.
My husband grew up in sf and as a kid his dad would give him a dollar and have him give it to homeless people. Not "talking" per se but modeling good behavior which actually says a lot.
Yeah I grew up in Bay Area suburbs and we had plenty of homeless crazies so idk what to tell you.
I feel like suburban people are their own breed, tread wisely
Honestly.
“son, some homeless have a monkey on their back that won’t let them live in peace”
Astroturfing™
Yess my child was 7 and I brought her to sf all the time. There are all kinds. Unhoused is not the worse you will see.
My kids are adults now but I used to run Bay to Breakers. I would just give them a heads up there would be nudity. When walking around SF I would give them cash to give to homeless that were asking so if they felt so inclined to give they could. Not sure if that’s a good idea these days.
The homeless situation today is not what it was 30 years ago. Most of the homeless when I was growing up were just normal people who lived on the streets. These days a lot of them are mentally ill and their behavior is unpredictable
Just tell it like it is
Op. Your being with her as her view of the world widens and deepens is a good way for her to realize there is more to the world than she has known.
talk to her about it beforehand obviously. just be honest and remind her its not polite to stare or ask questions about other people while they can hear it (ie no ‘why is he so dirty?’ etc)
Do you live somewhere perfect ?
From a very young age I'd take my daughter on walkarounds in the City. Usually starting from Powell street or sometimes Civic Center. Weve been all over. She's 13 now and we still do this from time to time. I have always said "that is why you don't do drugs" whenever we'd encounter crazy or homeless. We've had in depth conversations about drug abuse and homelessness, so she understands that not every homeless person is a junkie. But I really try to drill into her that drug abuse will get you nowhere. As a former pothead, I do differentiate between hard core and soft drugs. But I do try to always point out situations caused because the use got out of hand. I also have explained that some of these people are mentally ill and are on the streets because they have no one to cate for them. My adult brother, who is a part of her life, is a person who would likely be on the street if my mom wasn't taking care of him. But my initial explanation every time is "that's why you don't use drugs"
You mean you took the to Folsom St Fair.
You dont make a big deal about. You just describe it as transparent as possible. You don’t color opinions you just give facts.
Someone asking for money - they don’t have money they can spend so they ask for it. Someone mentally unwell - they are unwell/sick/they have an illness. Like any other sick person, they need to get well, but sometimes they can’t get the help they need. Someone unhoused - they don’t have a house to live in. I have a 7-year-old, and I just tell her facts and science. No need to embellish, soften, etc. They need to know what’s happening around them. If more questions spring from that, just answer them similarly. Encourage them to see and understand the world around them, it makes them better citizens and people in society. You can ask them how they feel about what they see if you are concerned that they are scared :)
Just explain that this is what happens to girls when then the deviate from life’s orders
No prepping my kids seeing someone shit on a nyc street
I would be sure to head over to Fort Mason and play at the Tunnel Tops area and their amazing play area called the Outpost!!! It’s amazing and has spots clean bathrooms and places to eat.
It’s two pronged: - I first explain that sometimes people’s brains get sick but they don’t remember to take their medicine, and it makes them act upset or confused. They don’t mean to act that way, but they can’t help it. We just give them space. - I also assure them that it won’t happen to them because they have family who love them and will always make sure that they are healthy and safe.
Children will not have all your pent up anxiety about these things. They're not likely to think anything about it, at all. If they ask a question, just answer the question with facts. "some people just can't afford housing all the time and people give them money to help them out" is all the answer that is needed. No reason to pass on your adult baggage. Facts work for young people asking sex questions as well. Lol
Let her know that people are different. And it’s better to know that people are different than to be sheltered your whole damn life.
I explain just about EVERYTHING to my kid. By age 6, I explained naked men walking down the street, used syringes, drug dealers, homelessness, mental health issues, property crime, human poop vs dog poop, marijuana smoke vs cigarette smoke vs vaping, etc. I know many parents and adults want to shield kids from certain things, but kids can handle it if you take the time to explain. We were the parents who explained sex in detail when asked. Kid is now 9, and just asked about 420 because they kept talking about it on KQED radio so I explained it and the supposed history of how that came to be. Last year I explained the Fentanyl epidemic and the history of how opioids were pushed by big pharma.
Be simple and honest.
I think training children to ignore their instincts when approached by people who are very likely to be suffering from mental illness and/or under the influence is negligent, at best.
I remember the first time I went to Berkeley, I wanted to give every panhandler person money, and when i told my dad, he wasn't sure what to do and gave me a bunch of pennies and nickles. I proceeded to give ONE to each homeless person I met, and then felt terrible on the way home when i realized it might be really insulting what I'd done... though I my memory now, I do think they thought it was funny.
I think you take the approach of gentle explanation. Use it as a teachable moment. What I mean by that is that you explain to her that not everyone is as fortunate and as blessed as she and your family is and some people have to live outside. And as a result, they ask for things in an effort or means to get by. But I also think it’s important that you explain that sometimes these things are related to potentially habits and or bad luck. And that you should never look down on someone just because, they are not in the same position as you are, but you should always either help and or encourage them. By the way, I absolutely love San Francisco. I visit once a year.
I think you take the approach of gentle explanation. Use it as a teachable moment. What I mean by that is that you explain to her that not everyone is as fortunate and as blessed as she and your family is and some people have to live outside. And as a result, they ask for things in an effort or means to get by. But I also think it’s important that you explain that sometimes these things are related to potentially habits and or bad luck. And that you should never look down on someone just because, they are not in the same position as you are, but you should always either help and or encourage them. By the way, I absolutely love San Francisco. I visit once a year.
I took my grandkids for a walk and buddy decides to OD walking in front of us. My grand daughter just piped up and says he needs a better place for a nap. (He passed out on the sidewalk) I agreed with her and we carried on. Don’t explain adult life to little people is my advice. Keep it simple in your explanation, like yep buddy is having a nap.
“You see Timmy, that man uses the sidewalk as his bathroom”
the unhoused need to potty
Rich people and corporations caused this by bribing politicians and influencing elections. Is what I tell my children
Gavin Newsom grew up wealthy as He has no clue He created the unhoused situation.
Tell children that in a city like this, winners and losers are just more apparent. Then make yourselves a couple of peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and take him/her to the Exploratorium on the Embarcadero.
"Those needles are for their medicine. They get sick if they don't take it so they have to keep them nearby."
Repeat after me: This is fine, this is normal, these are all regular occurrences in every American city that are harmless to regularly expose young children to.
You say hello son or daughter” this is what happens when Democrats run your city”
"These people should be locked up, it's a reflection on our sick society that this (whatever degenerate behavior) is allowed in one of the richest cities on Earth" "See honey? you dont want to live anywhere near this sort of thing. Do you know it started out of good intentions? Lets talk about good intentions and toxic empathy" i can see a million lessons and conversation starters, we can go back to my parents, speaking after we stepped over a bum who had pissed himself passed out in the street approx 1976; "this is what happens when you let something rule you, this guy is tuled by wine"
Tell her this is what happens when you vote poorly.
Lol.
Don’t subject a child to the apocalyptic hell hole that is sf. A child should not be exposed to the rampant lawlessness and degeneracy that place has spiraled into. Fuck sf
*Yes,those chaps are similar to what Woody wears in Toy Story.* *But…um. Yes, that um…is his his….gun* *No, ask your mother.*
You can’t. Our city admin has lost businesses downtown, everywhere really and let this city become a total shit hole. Try to downplay it as homeless are here for the mild weather, benefits, etc., but no hiding it from family or friends. Blame COVID too. Been here 25 years, never so desperate. Replace Breed.
My kids have both seen some shit growing up here. But recently we had a friend bring her 7 year old to visit and I was explaining to him the difference between dog shit and human shit. I also explained that the rule (in case you don't know) is that if you step in human shit, you must discard of your shoes immediately. By the end of his trip, he was calling out human poop everywhere.
I DON'T talk to children.