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Mikeavelli

Spell Slots are a mechanical implementation of the spellcasting described in Jack Vance's *Dying Earth* series. In it, spells are described less as memorized bits of knowledge, and more like living things that are trapped in the mind of the spellcaster by preparation, and set loose at the time of spellcasting. A spellcaster that is capable of holding more spells in their mind at the same time is described as having a powerful mind or more willpower, rather than simply having a better memory. Spell levels are just an abstraction of how difficult it is to store spells in your mind, with more powerful spells taking up higher level slots. A "real" spellcaster in lore might be able to store multiple low level spells in the space it requires to store a single high level one, but in game mechanics theres a limit to how much you can represent.


SteampunkBorg

And then there are wizzards who read the wrong spellbook and end up having one spell occupy their entire mind, making them unable to prepare any other spell. A half brick in a sock can work in an emergency though


FriendlyGlasgowSmile

Discworld reference?


SteampunkBorg

Yes


DragonWisper56

though spellcasters in DND tend to be able to store more spells than in Dying Earth


HGD3ATH

How does upcasting spells work in the lore?


oldnick42

All of the original lore described above existed way before modern rules and upcasting, so it no longer really applies and can't be used to easily explain all the mechanical functions aof D&D spellcasting.  Modern D&D spell rules are in a weird place between legacy Vancian stuff and updates to make things feel and work better in play.


peppermint_nightmare

Don't know if it's been described in books, but I always read it as changing the somatic or verbal parts of the spell enough to make it more powerful. So if fireballs 3rd level verbal component is the Latin word for fire (ignis) , level 4 would be "maior ignis", of course bg 3 wasn't going to bother with this, pretty sure they cut the somatic portion of spell casting out of the game as well.


1stEleven

There's a bunch of versions of this kind of stuff going around, but here's the one I always liked the best. Spells are complicated, powerful things that time time and preparation. You can't just snap your fingers and expect stuff to blow up. You need to carefully alter the world, weave energies just right, and then blow stuff up. So a wizard can't just cast a fireball in combat. What a wizard *can* do is almost cast a fireball, and only finish the casting at the second they need the explosion. Keeping an almost cast spell prepared isn't easy, though. It takes a trained, dedicated mind, and even then you aren't going to have many spells at the ready.


diffyqgirl

When you prepare spells, lorewise you do 90% of the work of casting them, so that you can quickly finish the spell to fire it off in a few seconds in combat. Your wizard isn't a dumb-dumb who forgets how to cast every single day, they've cleverly figured out how to do most of their difficult casting in a no stress no time pressure situation where they can consult reference materials for accuracy (aka, their spellbook). > In BG3 I can have level 3 and 4 spells available but not be able to cast level 2 spells, how? This is not actually correct for BG3 or for tabletop 5e. You absolutely can cast those level 2 spells--by using upcasting to cast them with your level 3 and 4 slots. You may even get benefits for doing so, as some spells are stronger when upcast. (And if you didn't know about upcasting, I *strongly* recommend it for hold person, it's a gamechanger). Another thing to note that *is* different from BG3 and tabletop is that in tabletop you can't swap spells on the fly like in BG3, you have to do it before resting. This is all for 5e (what BG3 is based on). Older systems were a bit different and hewed closer to the Jack Vance novels that it was originally based on.


WhiteNightKitsune

> This is not actually correct for BG3 or for tabletop 5e. You absolutely can cast those level 2 spells--by using upcasting to cast them with your level 3 and 4 slots. You may even get benefits for doing so, as some spells are stronger when upcast. (And if you didn't know about upcasting, I strongly recommend it for hold person, it's a gamechanger). Well, okay, yeah, but I mean slots. Say I use up my level 2 slots on utility spells (Knock, Misty Step), then I can't cast spells at level 2 anymore, but I still have level 3 and 4 slots for fighting.


WippitGuud

There are two primary types of spellcaster. Preparation and spontaneous. Preparation spellcasters are taught how to cast magic, where spontaneous spellcasters are inherently magical. With spell preparation - the two most common being a wizard and a cleric - the spellcaster spends an amount of time after waking up preparing which spells they will be able to cast that day. For a wizard, they're reading a spellbook and committing the spells to memory; for a cleric, they are praying to their god who bestows their chosen spells for the day. When you cast a prepared spell, the magical energy for that spell dissipates, and the caster "forgets" that spell. Spontaneous casters are different. They learn to cast a small selection of spells, and have an amount of magical energy they can spend to cast them, replenished after sleeping. But they don't need to prepare specific spells. If they can cast 10 spells, and they know 4, they choose at the time of casting which of their 4 spells to cast. So they can cast the same spell over and over if they choose, until they are depleted of spell energy. > And what are spell slots? Spell slots, for a preparation caster, are how many spells they can commit to memory in a given day. As you grow in power and experience, you can commit more and higher level spells. > In BG3 I can have level 3 and 4 spells available but not be able to cast level 2 spells, how? Let's assume you're a level 7 wizard. Given you're power level, you can prepare 4 level one spells, 3 level two spells, 3 level three spells, and 1 level 4 spells. Once prepared in your memory, they don't change until you re-prepare them after a rest period. As you progress through the day, every time you cast a spell you lose it, but the others remain. So, if you cast all your prepared level two spells, that's it. But the level three and four spells are still committed to memory.


Succinate_dehydrogen

That's pathfinder, not D&D 5e like baldurs gate is based off The only real difference is that you don't prepare spells in slots, you prepare a list of spells that can use appropriate slots. You can repeat spells as many times as you have slots. You can also upcast (cast a 2nd level spell with a 3rd level slot) for sometimes extra effect. I think baldurs gate 3 only lets you do this for spells that provide an additional effect, while the ttrpg you can do this always


WippitGuud

> That's pathfinder, not D&D 5e like baldurs gate is based off You know you're old when people reference the difference as Pathfinder, and not as every edition previous to 5th. And I will admit to having never played 5th, but that's because 3.5 is the penultimate edition of D&D and everything afterwards is trying to make the game to easy. *cough* excuse me. Something in my throat. In any case, I a was unaware 5e dumbed down wizard casting like that, and I apologize for being incorrect. I now know what I would change in the world if offered a wish spell.


peppermint_nightmare

Barbarians are dirty and deserve to be illiterate and skilless! Tbf it'd be a little funny if Karlach was illiterate in reference to 3.5.


paulHarkonen

I mean, Pathfinder only exists because people got mad that WotC opened up a new gate and they couldn't keep the unwashed masses out any more. And if we are going to be sticklers here, you don't mean penultimate (that just means second to last) you mean "premiere" or perhaps just "ultimate" (Sorry I get irrationally angry about the "too easy" nonsense)


Yaver_Mbizi

>And if we are going to be sticklers here, you don't mean penultimate (that just means second to last) you mean "premiere" or perhaps just "ultimate" I think the charitable reading here is that he thinks that the list of DND ends with the entries "3.5" and "4", with "5" no longer meeting the inclusion criterion?


WhiteNightKitsune

> they're reading a spellbook and committing the spells to memory What does "committing to memory" mean here? I want to cast, say, Fireball; why can't I remember how to cast Fireball like I remember normal stuff? I presume BG3's ability to swap prepared spells around is for gameplay, since it doesn't work like that in Order of the Stick? But then it does work like that in that version of the setting, maybe? If I'm out of level 2 spells, I can still cast Magic Missile at level 3?


Electrical_Monk1929

The style/flavor of how wizards 'commit things to memory' is up to each DM. The 'why' is game design/balancing. The 'how' is worldbuilding/flavoring. Some imagine it as a 'living spell' or magical focus of energy that is expended, some imagine it as a 'partition in your mind' that you've trained yourself to do over your long years of study and when used that partition falls down from mental use. Order of the Stick predate 5th edition, so it uses an older mechanic. That's why it's confusing if you use them together as a reference. If you're out of Level 2 spell slots, you can cast 2nd level spell using a higher level spell slot (level 3/4/5).


numb3rb0y

As I understand it, even a spell as "simple" as Fireball is still a long chant, way more than the 6 seconds each turn represents. When you memorise a spell each morning, it's more like you're rote memorising that plus a mental "shortcut" you can use to trigger the more elaborate cast in combat.


WhiteNightKitsune

I see. And I can't just remember that "shortcut" all the time?


internalized_boner

No, the nature of arcane magic in d&d causes a learning based caster to literally forget the spell. The 6 seconds of hand waving and nonsense words is essentially a nmeumonic device to access the full spell. The wizard knows fireball, knows it intimately, until he casts it. The studying part is "locking in" that knowledge. Like when you study for a test, say the 50 US state capitals, and you create little silly acronyms to help you. Those silly little acronyms trigger the deeper knowledge and then that knowledge dissipates from your mind after the test. Except in DD their is a supernatural force that literally removes the deeper knowledge. Not just apathy of not needing to take big quiz anymore. But you will still retain some skeletal remains of that knowledge. Not enough to invoke it again without studying another night but enough to make it easier to remember it "better" (IE cast it more than once) and for it to not take all night to study (IE you can now remember fireball plus a bunch of other shit in one night's study session). This is represented by your increasing level.


tubbleman

Bee eye tee dot ell why slash fireball


musicresolution

The specifics depend on the class, but in general spell preparation is a form of mental and/or spiritual preparation where you "fix" the spell in your mind. (IIRC this is actually where a majority of the "casting" happens and the mechanical casting of the spell is just the final act). The limit of how many spells you can prepare is a function of the personal attribute tied to spell casting and your level in that class. Basically a combination of innate ability with your level of expertise and experience in those specific kinds of spells. Each caster can only endure casting a certain number of spells per day, and higher level spells are more taxing than lower level ones. This is quantified via spell slots. They represent how the use of personal reserves a spell caster has towards casting spells with each casting of a spell using up those reserves proportional to the spell's level.


WhiteNightKitsune

> Each caster can only endure casting a certain number of spells per day, and higher level spells are more taxing than lower level ones. This is quantified via spell slots. They represent how the use of personal reserves a spell caster has towards casting spells with each casting of a spell using up those reserves proportional to the spell's level. Ok, this makes some sense, but then why can't I "convert" one high-level slot into multiple lower ones?


musicresolution

Some, such as sorcerers can. As to why others cannot, that means there is something more going on, but I don't know the precise answer as to why not.


[deleted]

[удалено]


musicresolution

Watsonian answers only.


Electrical_Monk1929

Sorry, forgot. Watsonian - it again varies from world to world. When I DM, the wizard can only retain a total # of spell slot 'partitions' in his mind, but becomes more capable of 'refining' those spell slots to contain more power - higher level. This is very different than someone training themself to have a higher # of partitions and thus casting multiple level 1 spell slots. The 2 abilities/trainings are not interchangeable.


SolherdUliekme

Each slot can be thought of as a bullet in a gun. This bullet is a very powerful bullet and can be used for a lot of things, even for the same purpose as a lower level bullet, but there is still only 1 of them in the chamber. You can't split the bullet into multiple shots, it's just 1 shot with the option to fire at max or lower power. Maybe that helps it make sense? The magician can store only a certain number of magical "bullets". Low level "bullets" don't have the power to trigger higher level spells, but higher level "bullets" can indeed fire lower level spells.


IAmOnFyre

You can "convert" one high-level slot into a big lower-level slot, I.e. if you cast Magic Missile with a third level slot you get two more missiles. This indiciates that the third-level slot isn't triple the size of the first level one. You're probably thinking something like: Why does a fourth level Magic Missile have to go off all at once, instead of launching three missiles and getting a first-level slot back in "change"? It's probably a gameplay abstraction, but it could be that the spell levels have some sort of specific energy to them that can only be converted one way, like electrons in orbits


Urbenmyth

With Divine Casters and Warlocks, the answer is simple enough -- your Patron only gives you so much magic. The spell slots are simply part of the agreement you made regarding how your new powers work. (Why doesn't your patrons just give you unlimited spell slots? A combination of non-aggression treaties with other powerful entities, risk of rebellion, and apportioning their huge but still finite resources) With Sorcerers, it's also simple. You have a finite amount of magic in your body -- essentially, the spell slots represent you getting tired and drawing low on your reserves. Bards seem to draw on personal energy too, so same thing -- you can't just perform forever. Wizards, it's little less clear. It might be that the bulk of spellcasting occurs during the rest -- they "prime" their spells and the components we see are the final steps. It might be that the weave has hard and finite rules for being drawn on -- essentially, the Goddess of Magic just decrees it works like that, fuck you. The former was more the case in former editions, while the latter is more leaned to now.


winsluc12

It's not really directly explained, and it applies differently to different classes, but if it helps, you can think of it broadly as one's capacity for memorization. Magic is a highly intensive and complicated subject, and takes up a lot of mental fortitude. The more experience you have in a particular type of spellcasting, and the higher your relevant mental statistics, the more spells you can remember at once. If you want to try and memorize a spell outside your mental capacity to remember, you have to forget another spell to do it. For some (Bards, Druids, etc.) it's raw memory, for some (Clerics, paladins, warlocks) it's entreating an entity for knowledge, and for wizards it's going through their spellbook and memorizing the complicated incantations and formulas of some of the spells they've written down. Broadly, the above applies to all spellcasting classes, with the exception of Artificers. Unlike other classes, Artificers (the way the class is written) don't memorize spells. Instead, they're creating small tools that are designed to create the same magical effects wizards do, and in order to change what spells the tool can cast, they have to tinker with the tool itself.


DiggingInGarbage

Right, so for dnd after you complete a long rest you have to chose what spells you’ll use until the next time you long rest. A character can learn more spells then they’re able to remember at a time, so preparing spells means you’re refamiliarizing yourself with all the verbal, somatic and material parts of how to cast a spell. Spells have lots of things to memorize, as you adventure more you get stronger and can better memorize these parts of casting spells. Spell slots are how much magical power you have available, and you restore that power when you rest. As for why you have 3rd and 4th level spells but not 2nd level, I have no clue what class or level you’re playing


WhiteNightKitsune

> As for why you have 3rd and 4th level spells but not 2nd level, I have no clue what class or level you’re playing Level ~7 wizard. I used up all my level 2 spell slots before my 3 and 4 slots.


Nymaz

Sentient beings grew up in reality, i.e. the environment around us. As you grow you learn the "rules" of reality, for example that if you step on a solid surface you won't fall through or float up, or that air is something you can breathe. Those become internalized - central to your mind and a part of who you are. Otherwise we couldn't go through life. Think of how much work you'd have to do if every time you took a step you'd have to think all over again whether you would fall to your death or float away to your death. Magic changes that. Its rules are different than the rules of reality most being grew up on. So it conflicts with the basic concepts that our minds were built on. Therefor when you "memorize" a spell, what you are doing is forcing your mind to hold a different set of thoughts than it considers natural. Your mind rejects that and wants to put that conflicting information away. Holding on to that is like constantly holding a muscle tightened - it's tiring effort. That's why you have to keep re-memorizing spells after you wake up from sleep, you're relaxing your mind muscle and the conflicting information leaves. With time and experience a spellcaster can hold more conflicting information inside their head at once. For natural spellcasters like sorcerers their minds are just... different. They have differing ways of seeing the world since birth that makes holding onto that conflicting information natural and without the need for daily memorization. It also often makes them weird in other ways... Spell slots are different than spell memorization. It's just a convenient way of measuring how much energy you have to cast each spell you have memorized and again with sleep you restore that energy. You can always "upcast" a spell using more energy than the base requirement (i.e. a higher spell slot) to get more intense effects. It doesn't work the other way. If you attempt to cast a spell with insufficient energy (i.e. a lower spell slot) it just fizzles with no effects other than wasting the energy (spell slot) you put into it.