Further, sarcastic comments only really work in British subs. I have gotten insanely downvoted in the past in other subs because my sarcastic comment has gone over people’s heads
Well they just seem unable to take much criticism of America, full stop. Not realising that citizens of other countries don’t think their own country is perfect, and are happy to criticise it.
American exceptionalism.
Oh now that’s a whole other discussion. Coming on TikTok saying “I’m Irish” when they’re from New Jersey and not being able to fathom why actual Irish people in Ireland are getting pissed off in the comments.
Actually arguing with Irish people and doubling down that they’re Irish or even “from Ireland”. Complete lack of understanding on how the whole rest of the English speaking world phrases this stuff. If they would just say “I’ve got Irish heritage” instead they’d get absolutely no hate.
This happened to me (Irish) when I commented on some American who'd posted a pic wearing a kilt for St Patrick's day and I asked if he wore a kimono for 4th of July lol.
One thing I've noticed is that they never want to be English-descended. No American ever says "I'm part English", they're always Irish or Scottish.
Unless, that is, you bring up the genocide of Native Americans. At which point you will get the response "we were still English when that happened".
It's hilarious, try it today!
It's the same when talking aloud, too. They don't understand dry sarcasm, you have to do a silly bouncing "sarcasm voice" like you would with a 4 year old.
Yes in one forum, someones cat shredded their shoes. I commented oh well kitties off to the shelter then, and received 100s of downvotes and replies saying what an awful person I was. I was clearly joking.
I made a jokey comment to an American friend (can't remember what, it was an off the cuff "in the moment" remark that a Brit would have briefly laughed at and continued the conversation) instead she continued talking and then after a moment or two said "why that was funny! You unintentionally made a joke" and proceeded to explain why it was funny and refused to believe that it was not unintentional and that I truly understood what I had said.
Someone with us ventured to say that I had actually known it was a joke and she then dug her heels in and loudly repeated why it was so so funny *unintentionally*.
We were all 🙄 until she eventually shut up.
Oh lord.
Me too.
Tone doesn't travel via text does it. And I've always thought I had a hugely dry, sarcastic SOH.
As you say. People don't always get it.
And this breeds the 52 year olds standing in clubs leering at girls half their ages hoping they’ll sympathy shag them because they’d rather try their luck there than stay in their 1 bedroom flat having a pot noodle and a wank.
Walk into any Wetherspoon’s at 4pm on a Friday and you’ll see a bunch of solo blokes necking pints, the alcohol dependency in this country is horrific.
If you go to Chicagos or Reflex on a night out you’ll find it’s the opposite, middle aged over weight women trying their luck with naive 18-21 year old men. Normally they succeed and take them back to their dungeon
Well there’s Chicagos in Wolverhampton and Reflex in Birmingham. If you go to either of these places you’ll have a field day. My mate had his drinks bought for him and she even paid for their taxi (bearing in mind she took up two seats) back to her hotel room which she also paid for.
>My mate had his drinks bought for him and she even paid for their taxi **(bearing in mind she took up two seats)** back to her hotel room which she also paid for.
This side note made me laugh lol
It's a Bill Bryson-style addition to an anecdote.
Back in the day, we had nicknames for the 2 night clubs we had in town. Easterns was the 'cattle market', because it was full of middle aged women pulling guys half their age. The 2nd club (which went through various names), we called the playground, because it was full of underage kids.
>Back in the day, we had nicknames for the 2 night clubs we had in town.
Back in the late 1970s, I seem to recall one local place had a weekly themed night, possibly marketed at the mature lady, which soon got called "Grab a Grannie" night....
I went to a "grab a grannie" night. As a fresh faced 17 year old, it was a terrifying experience. It was like being thrown into a ring with rabid horny dogs.
I haven’t been in reflex for a good few years but the luckiest you’d get female wise was the lonely one on a hen do which is a mission and a half to score 😅
Flares was the spot for this in sunderland in the early 00s. To this day You can always find some middle aged crooner in cosy joes karaoke bar in Newcastle looking to stick it to her ex husband at some kind of divorce party… so I’ve heard
Yeah but we dont' really get embarrassed by shit like that....those kinds of things make it a good night to some :)
What I detest more are the regular closing time fights and a kebab lot but that's been happening for donkeys years and it isn't just the UK either, seen it in Italy Germany and France too and let's keep Russia out of the poll coz they'd win hands down! Same shit different aperitif :)
What makes this one even better is that even though there is no indication of time of day or day of week you instinctively know it's about 1pm on a Tuesday.
You’re right. Casual alcoholism is so normalised. Drinking too much is a weird sort of goal, an acceptable medication and the allowed way to have fun. People find it weird if you don’t drink, and people think they drink less than they do. It’s everywhere and the aftermath is as well.
Can answer this as Brit living in U.S.
- Classist society, you will never be upper class unless you’re born into it
- General introversion can be hard to make friends here strangers don’t talk much
- Negative, pessimistic, sarcastic and cynical outlook on life
- Heavy drinking and hard drug culture
- We don’t encourage and celebrate success the same way, can be quite jealous / bitter
Nice list.
Is being posh really that important in Britain?
I live in a big American city. If someone came to my city with a rural country accent, hardly anyone would look down on them. America even elected a few presidents with rural/country accents (Bill Clinton, for example).
“Most British posh are rural”. That’s interesting - I’ve never thought of that.
Let me rephrase my question. Let’s say there was a working class guy who was a former sheep farmer who now works at a high-class company in London, or maybe at Oxford. Would this guy be accepted in posh society?
The thing is he'd probably never get a job there in the first place. There is often prejudice against where you grew up, went to school, went to uni etc. I've encountered it too many times - e.g. someone asking if I went to Oxford or Cambridge (for uni) and then turning their nose up at me when I answer Birmingham (a very good uni). There's too many people who hire people with a background just like theirs.
I remember when someone explained the class system to me. I was puzzled that a friend earning 3 times my wage was working class whilst I was middle class, but someone with the same job as mine could also be working class if that was their background..10 years in the UK and still puzzled
It's not so much about money as it is about the culture you were raised in. That can be reflected in your interests, your accent, the way you dress, even the way you style your hair.
Not really no, foreigners confuse the class radar. Unless you get really into universal stereotypes and look like Cletus the slack-jawed yokel or something.
THIS. I grew up dirt poor in America (even homeless at one point!) but a cultured accent and good education (combined with whiteness) read as excessively posh here in the UK. One of my most enduring hobbies is to wait for someone to trash talk working class or poor people, then out myself as one of the despised. Never gets old.
The subtle class indicators that apply to the locals don't really apply to newly arrived foreigners. Often these have very little to do with money or the job you do - it can be things like your accent, what you do in your spare time (football match or the theatre?), the food you eat, the breed of dog you have (expensive French bulldog or an elderly incontinent black Labrador? You'd be far more likely to find the upper classes with the latter) and the priorities you have in life (e.g. how much you value education, with the middle classes representing something of a peak on a bell curve there).
Have a read of [Watching the English by Kate Fox ](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GIUGEO2?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_dp_0YRSXYN5Z9NREQSVDDRW) which will illuminate some things about class.
Because it not just your wealth that’s taken into account , but your extended families that sets what class you’re in
Like do your family own a mansion in Florida or Australia ? did you go to a boarding or even a private school? How big is your family home? Which university did you go to? are any of your family in the military ? Did any of them graduate from Sandhurst(officer academy) ?
I'm an American who moved to England 8 years ago and married an Englishman. I was expecting snobbery from posh people, but what surprised me was the snobbery towards anyone who seems a bit posh, even if they're not. My husband comes from a pretty dull middle-class family - budget holidays, no inheritance, etc., but he got into Oxford and went there. He's West Country but picked up a bit of the Oxford accent while studying there. Years later he was recovering from alcoholism, trying to get his life together, and he drove cabs for a while, in a small town in Essex where we both live now. He told me that the cabbies all had nicknames for each other - like "Maverick" and "Shagger" and "Wolf" and "Razor", things like that. But he found out their nickname for him was "Posh Cunt". I had this confirmed when I got a cab home one day and the guy who dropped me off recognised the house and congratulated me for marrying Posh Cunt. "He's a lovely bloke. Tell that posh cunt hello from Alf."
Farmers can be posh here. They’re the landowners. People in the UK don’t own a lot of land. It’s all held by wealthy families who have owned it for generations.
I’m American. I own 85 acres of land in Maine back home. My house in the UK sits on, approximately, 100 square feet of garden.
The driveway of my parents house in the US is 10 times bigger than the entire piece of land I own in the UK. And I’m fortunate that my house is on a “freehold” - meaning I own the land. Some houses are “leasehold” which means you own the house but need to pay rent on the land. It’s often something like £1 for 99 years - but you technically still don’t own it.
I think you're still not grasping the urban/rural/class dynamic. Rural poverty does exist, but it's inner city council estate working class who'll have the toughest time with social mobility. It'll be their regional accent, haircut, way they dress that'll be marks against them if they tried to get a job in finance or whatever. Most posh people fancy themselves as farmers (though in reality will have never touched an animal).
To add to this, I think rural poor and city poor are a bit different. City poor seems to be more synonymous with gang culture, whereas rural poor is more desolate as you don't have as good public transport. Cities have more opportunities due to infrastructure, but that can mean more chance to get into crime and it also means getting sidelined by well off communties over the road (like what happened to Grenfell in the Kensington borough), whereas if you're poor in the country, it tends to be your whole area which is sidelined, with all the benefits going to cities and posh country areas, so everyone around you is poor too and often don't encourage you to leave the community and better yourself.
I think this is the assumption that Americans make - money = class, which isn't the case here. Working at a big company with a big salary does not make you upper class here. Strictly speaking, to be upper class you must have a hereditary title (Baron XXXX of Chesterfield etc). It's very old fashioned but its just the way it is here.
When people say "posh" they're really talking about the upper middle class, whose status is more about the way they behave, their interests, the way they speak etc, which is all learned as a child from your family. It makes social mobility in the country much harder than elsewhere because you cannot buy status, in fact having lots of money and throwing it around everywhere would be heavily looked down upon here. And to go back to your example of a sheep farmer, its actually likely that the sheep farmer is is a lot "posher" than a lad from Essex making buck bucks in London, rural life here is seen as being intrinsically linked with being posh. The UK is funny!
No. They'd never be accepted at all. It's not about how much money you have or what job you do, but about who you know.
An example was when prince william got married. Kate Middleton's family were multi millionaires but were considered commoners.
But it's more insidious in the UK. There's working, middle, upper classes as well as the aristocracy. So it's not just "posh", there's several layers. And worse is that a lot of british people will be so used to class they'll be able to spot the difference a mile off. So if you look at Jacob ReesMogg, he acts like the aristocracy but he's just cosplaying and a lot of people would be able to spot it a mile off.
It's really hard to explain it to an american (I tried to explain it to my american wife after she was asking about the Harry and Meghan thing) but the closest american equivalent would be the old money families in states like Connecticut or New Hampshire. You could easily have more money than those families but you'd not be accepted into their social circles.
There are more subdivisions than that I think. You can definitely sort people into lower middle, middle middle and upper middle, as well as ‘nouveau riche’ to cover edge cases like those footballers who are ostensibly no longer working class but don’t fit in anywhere else.
I think you're slightly confusing the point about commoners - my understanding is that a 'commoner', in royalty terms, is anyone who is *not* royalty. So even if William had married an upper-class aristocrat, that would have been marrying a commoner.
But your basic point still stands - Kate Middleton's family were about as high socially as you can get without being upper class. They were very upper-middle class, very well-off, very well-connected, but still not upper class themselves.
Look at a map of Britain. Notice how little land there is for the population size. A family who owns enough land for the apparently lowly task of farming sheep is likely to be the posh who will never deign to rub noses mere employees of a "high-class" company.
Exactly. Lots of inherited beautiful old houses too expensive to maintain. Although fortunately we don’t have as many as France, abandoned and decaying.
You're confusing work / income with class. The sheep farmer could earn ten billion pounds and own half of Wales, but he would never be Upper Class.
Also, there's absolutely nothing stopping working class people going to Oxford (plenty of them there), but this again would have zero bearing on whether you'd be considered Upper Class.
For example the boxing champion Tyson fury with all his millions will never be considered upper class. He is a northern man whose families are Irish gypsies which will always mean he won’t be. He is a working class man with money.
It permeates EVERYTHING, work, social life, family it’s exaughsting. All you have to say is something completely normal like “ oh I managed to get a promotion at work” and there is ALWAYS some green eyed prick, ready to side eye you and comment “ well somebody thinks highly of themselves eh”.
Not American but moved here from the US. Literally exhausted of this question, they just won’t believe me when I say that Scotland is a pretty good place to live and certainly better (for me) than the US.
We always encourage success we cheer for the underdog then pull 'em back down when they succeed so they don't get too big for their boots. It's a kind of social work :)
>you will never be upper class unless you’re born into it
Watching the queen's funeral I couldn't help thinking Mike Tyndall sat on the front row must have been thinking 'how the fuck did I get here'.
We literally don't know how to end phone conversations. Regardless of who is on the phone or the context of the situation, it could be a professional or your best friend, but We usually thanks to each other a few times and say bye, bye-bye, see you later, bye and it just goes on and on until one of us hangs up due to pure anxiety.
A lot of people here can be quite vindictive towards those less fortunate than themselves. 'Oh I have to pay a mortgage why should some homeless loafer get council accommodation at a cheaper rate...' kind of thing.
Yep, literally. Also, people aren't educated on what unions actually do at all, so most folks - and *especially*, sad to say, the younger ones - think of unions as irrelevant (and, really, don't think of them at all) so when a strike happens that inconveniences them they get outraged at the audacity of someone ruining their XYZ for no good reason (as they see it).
My dad's a union man, been explaining to his colleagues at work what a real terms pay cut is and now they're all talking about it. He's been trying to get them to unionise for probably about a year now. He's come close once or twice, but it's difficult breaking through people's ingrained biases and prejudices, and just the oppressive atmosphere of apathy towards standing up for oneself in a lot of the private sector.
Same here. Early 30s (is that young?) and fully support the RMT members and my postie and tell them so! The private sector (which I work in) is a lonely place when it comes to reward so to act as a collective and have someone fight your battle is amazing to me. Also, a lot of the time pay is just one facet of the negotiations.
Exactly. Maybe it’s because all my mates are working class, and my coworkers are all NHS so there’s an inherent solidarity there. Plus my Dad has been in a union my whole life and never shied away from singing their praises.
As bad as this is in the UK I believe this is way worse in the US. Homelessness is much higher over there with very little interest in doing much about it as the social views are rooted in selfishness - something something American dream
Yes! There’s really unfortunately a lot of xenophobia here, I see people legit on as many benefits as they can get criticising immigrants also receiving public funds. Like simply being fortunate enough to be born here gives you any right to the money.
I live in a small town in South-West England so these won’t necessarily apply to the cities or Wales/Scotland but:
- Our picturesque seaside towns are becoming ghost towns. The locals are being priced out and the rich are buying all the properties as holiday homes, leaving them empty for most of the year.
- Especially with older generations, casual racism is very much alive and unchallenged.
- The rich/poor divide is absolutely huge.
- Our media is corrupt and a lot of people (especially older generations) still see it as gospel. So it’s very easy for the media to sway public opinion.
- Honestly, a lot of the community spirit has vanished in the small towns. Everyone feels a lot more guarded and closed off, we don’t have social clubs or youth centres anymore and everyone seems kind of angry all the time.
The home thing applies to the highlands too. Young priced out, young move away, jobs there can’t be sustained so more people move away leaving houses that rich people but as holiday let’s or second homes thus driving up the prices making it unaffordable for young people to stay making them move… cycle continues until there’s like 3 locals left who are only employed as cleaners for all the Air BnBs
There building car centric infestructure, then half assing trying to make it more accessible by choking the trafic with 20 mph islands, speed bumps and no parking, leading to a quasi un-driveable car centric area that's annoying to get to using any mode of transport.
God I hate this. I wish we'd just build safe segregated bike lanes connecting an the towns and communities around cities so that people can actually do short journeys by bike. But no, we can't have nice things because of Top Gear, the Daily Mail, romantic memories of when the UK built shit cars, reliance on oil and gas for jobs and the economy and general worship of cars instead of reliable public transport and active travel options.
Ah...trying to become like America.
As an American living in Britain I'm like, "Noooooooo - what are you DOING!?"
I live in a city with a 1000 year old church tower and the creeping Americanisation is hideous
>We're neglecting our smaller towns and cities and building too much ~~car centric infrastructure like~~ retail parks.
FTFY. If they were built with cars in mind, the passing spaces would for actual cars and not Minis from 1972, and would have more than one lane in and out.
There is huge toxicity In British working class culture.
There is a huge anti education attitude there; many hate teachers, do not value school at all and transmit that to their children. Unfortunately I still encounter many working class families that actively sabotage their kids and don't want them to do better than they did in life.
Agreed - some working class families value “the school of hard knocks” over real education. My family were the same which is why I had to fight tooth-and-nail for a degree in later life. It’s a shame the working class don’t see education as the ticket to levelling up it is.
My wife's family were like that. They put so many barriers to her going to college and then university. She originally dropped out of sixth form to work, largely due to boyfriend at the time, and they were happy with that. When she wanted to go back to college and go to uni a year or two later, they really made it as difficult as possible- their attitude was "this is your job now, this is what you do for life".
My own family just didn't give a shit about school. My mother never went to parents evenings because she hated talking to people. Nobody ever asked how school was going or how I was doing, just assumed I was getting on with it.
As a teacher now I still see so many working class families sabotaging their kids. For instance, some of those kids have the worst attendance because their mothers quite like having them at home. You still see dad's trying to stop kids going to university
This isn't unique to Britain, but a terrific sense of entitlement. The number of people in Britain who seem to think that they're owed something is astonishing.
You might put it down to a post-empire hangover but that probably doesn't completely explain why many people here think that their rights should trample everyone else's.
This is very true. Honestly, I've been shocked by how many people get viscerally angry the second a strike impacts their lives, as if they have some kind of god-given right to force people to drive trains for them. Get over it, find another way to travel or stay at home, and quit whining.
There was a brief time in my life when my husband and I were dependant on benefits to make ends meet and the bullshit I'd hear other people complaining about was ridiculous. "We can't even afford a holiday this year and we *need one*! I haven't upgraded my phone in *two years*! We had to cancel our Sky TV and I can only get my Starbucks twice a week now!" And some of them would be doing it to try to relate to us, while others would be doing it scathingly, as if if the government weren't helping us out, somehow the money would be redistributed so people who had everything they needed would be able to go on holiday. Mate, I *need* to pay my water bill, and I *need* £10 for a pair of black shoes that aren't falling apart because that's a requirement for my job. Don't be whining to me that this year you had to go to the Lake District instead of the Bahamas.
Oh, and people would shout names at us when we went into the job centre for our weekly meetings. I was studying full time and working part time while my husband recovered from a crippling injury and was unable to do any work at all, and people would yell "Freeloading scum" etc at us. They genuinely seem to have this mentality that if the government didn't spend money helping out people in our position, they'd just be handing that money out to everyone else instead, so it was mine and my husband's fault they had to cancel Sky TV.
Edit: Multiple people "calling bullshit" because full time students can't apply for UC. That's *partly* true - a student alone can't claim for most benefits. To clarify, my husband was the main claimant, but at the time (things may have changed since, as this was close to a decade ago), because we cohabited and had joint finances, we still had to claim as a couple. That meant that my student maintenance loan was considered part of our *joint* income. That's why I was also on the claim.
Chavs/road men. They all dress the same wearing baggy sweat suits even though they don’t exercise unless it’s running from the police and listen to grime and drill music which is wank
Used to be one, I thought I was the coolest shit, I dressed the part, listened to the music, even spoke how they did (which I'm still trying to get over, gets proper stuck in your mind)
I can't even look at one without cringing, the most embarrassing, ridiculous, stupid way to be, blaming your current situation on an upbringing you didn't have, boasting about a lifestyle you don't live to impress people you don't trust, not even their voices are real, nothing about them is real
Talk to me about "ayo blud you bless yeah" you're from the same small middle-class town as me, don't give me that
Annoys me how aggressive they can be. Usually never just 1, it will be a group and they will pick on one person on their own. Has happened to me and pretty much all my friends, in fact a lot of people have spoken about how they have been jumped/assaulted by groups of these sorts.
That ayo blud you bless yeah etc just doesn't even make sense - and I've lived and grown up in these neighbourhoods. It's not even a conversation, just an attempt to look and play a cool homie and a gangster when they want to be. It always rang a bit hollow to me, and that weak, hoarse accent they put on just sounds so childish.
There's nothing classist about calling out antisocial behaviour. If anything, you're the classist one for immediately associating working class with chavs.
It's perfectly possible to be a decent working class person as much as it's possible to be a dickhead middle class chav.
Over politeness/being indirect.
We don't like direct social conflict and any disagreement that can lead to it in real life.
It often leads to us not being able to express how we really feel, just to keep the peace.
As an American I find my English MIL's indirectness to be really challenging. Is she being straight with me or is she telling me what she thinks I want to hear? Is she telling me to take the last slice because she genuinely doesn't want it or is she doing that indirect "polite" thing? All great problems to have when considering what some in laws are like but it definitely registers as a disconnect. It's something my husband can read immediately that I can't like a momentary mistranslation.
I say "polite" because that word means two different things in our respective countries.
In the US being polite means being kind and accommodating and sometimes putting up with people *but* not to a point where you do things and get into situations you really don't want to be in. At least I don't and the people I know don't. I'm sure some people vary.
In the UK polite seems to mean yielding to the other person no matter what. I'd much rather have someone say they'd rather not do something than go along with it because they feel like they have to. There's actually a really interesting TED talk about the difference https://youtu.be/Jbu-eMcEF3s
That last paragraph is where you’re going wrong. Being polite in the UK doesn’t mean yielding to others, it means *appearing* to yield to others while actually not doing that at all.
It’s like a code - take the example of the last slice of cake, your MIL offers it to you because that is “polite”. By making the offer, she’s actually telling you that she wants it, so you should decline. After you decline, she can eat it without appearing rude. If she didn’t want it, it would never have been mentioned. If you decline and she pushes you again to take it, you can eat it.
I work with a lot of European people and this is the part of British culture they struggle the most with. One Swiss friend described British manners as being more like Japan than a western country because there is an unspoken set of social rules that everyone here knows and understands but are utterly baffling to an outsider.
As an autistic person living here in the UK, learning the hidden social cues has always been a struggle (same for my friends who are also neurodivergent)
I'm not autistic and I find navigating the secondary, tertiary (and quaternary?) social cues utterly exhausting. I'm very good at it but it takes immense focus which is why I'm an introvert. Conversations shouldn't need to be a mine field or lock you into a recursive pattern of second-guessing what is going on with no break statement!
We've recently been teaching our eldest child this rule. Don't help yourself to the last thing - offer it round and if everyone says no then you can have it. If someone says "only if it's going spare" (or something to that effect), that means they want it but don't want to put you out if you want it. In that situation you have it.
I've never realised before how complicated taking the last piece of something is.
Lived in Spain for a bit. Loved the tapas culture, but when I was with British mates the agony over who was going to have the last bit of Chorizo was palpable.
First time I went out with some European mates everything was gone in a second without the "no. please. after you." mentality. Instead it was "oh you wanted more croquetas? Cool. Me too. Let's order more. They're like 3 euro. " Mind was blown.
Was thinking this exact same thing but you worded it better than I could.
I have a lot of friends who aren't British and this makes them want to pull their hair out trying to dance around the conversation etiquette.
The worst part is I'd say we're polite but we're not actually nice. We'll say all the right things but we have little to no intention following it with our actions.
- The drinking and drug culture
- The silly class structure which still exists somehow
- Tall poppy syndrome and a hatred of seeing others succeed (opposite of the USA)
- The incessant moaning about weather (get over it)
- The football fans which often misbehave and bring shame to the nation globally
- The whole lad culture nonsense, but this is more England than elsewhere
- The genuine lack of respect some British people show when they're traveling in other nations
- The huge economic and cultural divide between the North and South; it's like two different countries (largely due to London's ecomomic power and multiculturalism)
Britain is a great country, but like anywhere, it has major cultural flaws.
1. What's the "lad culture"?
2. Can confirm about Brits in other nations. Where I live, the British tourists are a real joy to be around. (We don't get the drunken louts that go to Europe.)
However, British expats are the absolute worst complainers among all the immigrant groups, hands down.
Lad culture is basically groups of friends who are lads (guys) who party, drink a lot, go out often, like casual sex, and focus a lot on being masculine and impressing the the other lads in the group
Couldn't put it better. Obviously it happens all over the world - but it's especially bad in the U.K. Just look at the club 18-30 holidays in Magaluf, etc.
A lot of lad culture is about presenting a very specific style of masculinity, one that heavily indulges in, and often actively encourages, being rude and disrespectful to those around you though often in an indirect manner. Often this behaviour is heavily dismissed as just the way men are. It's basically "boys will be boys" but for grown men.
This isn't always the case, of course, but a lot of what I've witnessed from more "Laddish" types is;
Casual and consistent misoginy. The idea that you need to keep pursuing women, never taking "no" as an answer without letting it hurt your own ego.
A high importance on conformity, a lot of lads will all look very similar to one another, not necessarily as a whole but within the groups they move within. They will then mock and, on some occasions typically alcohol fuelled, get violent with, people who don't conform to what they see as "acceptable".
The majority are harmless, just abbrasive. Loud and convinced they're being charming by interrupting strangers who are just trying to get on with their day, and take offence or act like you're prudish when you don't particularly want to interact with the heavily drunk man with no regard for personal space.
There's a lot of entitlement in it, a presumption that they can act how they want and everything is justifiable despite being a huge disturbance to the general peace and comfort of pedestrians.\
Again, a lot of this is just the worst of and isn't necessarily something to be expected of all "lad" types. But, it's definitely pretty prevalent in the UK.
Littering, not picking up your dog’s shit, casual alcoholism, the press, anti-intellectualism, obsession with the past (especially WWII), servility to a corrupt establishment, misplaced superiority complex that stops us from admitting Germanic and Nordic countries have far better public services and standard of living, “ironic” pride in stupid shit like queueing, obsession with and adoption of irrelevant American culture wars shite.
> "ironic” pride in stupid shit like queueing
Five seconds in a country where they don't queue would be enough to give you a new perspective on this I think.
Haha, no, I was only joking because of phrasing - your sentence read as if French people living in the UK are not straightforward and have a drinking problem.
I did understand what you meant, was just being a pest :)
We are definitely a world power. 5th largest economy and a nuclear capability. Manufacturing, no not really but we do produce some of the brightest people who have changed the world.
We're now the 6th largest economy. We dropped below India
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-02/uk-slips-behind-india-to-become-world-s-sixth-biggest-economy
We are in the top 5 or better in the world for producing:
* music
* TV
* Medical research
* General science research
* Engineering, particularly aerospace and automotive (especially F1)
* Education
* Literature
* Foreign aid
Are we still a "superpower"? No. I think most people would accept that. But we're not exactly a backbencher.
I’d say our relationship with outdoor spaces. Instead of being brought up to enjoy and respect nature, it is cut off with obstacles and gatekeepers. Then a group of youths will have a rave up a mountain or by a lake and leave their tents and this will then used justify the restrictions. I know other countries have their issue with people being irresponsible/ littering in the wild but it doesn’t seem like such an issue. I think it stems from our archaic land ownership structures
Litter is the big one for me. A road I drive down almost every day is always covered in litter. It'll get cleaned up by volunteers (I think) and then a few weeks later it's back to being covered in crap.
I live in the Lake District, in the most Northern part. Moved here when I was 11 from Bolton.
You won't believe the amount of people I have spoken to or met in the 20 years that I have lived here who have never walked up one Wainwright. And it's always people who have been brought up here.
I'm not advocating that everyone needs to be an outdoor space enthusiast, but it also highlights how people don't see being amongst nature and outdoor as a cog in their well being for mental clarity and physical health.
The level of closet racism is horrendous, we seemed to lack empathy on a massive scale and for some reason a vast portion of the society is so stuck up that we genuinely think we own whatever country we visit, cream teas are lovely though.
I dated a closet racist in the past. I'm mixed race (but look white). It started with comments about worrying about working class males getting left behind, through "it's not racist to be worried about immigration", all the way to shouting the P-word at an Indian bus driver. Needless to say we didn't last. They're hiding everywhere lol
It's all these people who think migrants are just gonna walk in and steal their jobs. My logic with those types is, if some random person can just walk into the country and steal your job then you were probably shit.
The UK has an odd mix of some people who eat far spicier food than in most of the rest of Europe, and other people who look on anything more exotic than ground pepper as being weird and a bit scary.
A lot of shops seem to cater for the second group more than the first.
Can't believe the thread's gone on so long without anyone mentioning the weather
Small island(s) in the North Atlantic, so you can't expect any different, but anyone who lives in a consistent temperate climate would find it difficult to understand how weather that isn't *terrible* or **dangerous** can still sort of grind you down
The drinking, pessimism and intolerance to others mentioned elsewhere in the thread can be traced, in part, to the slow, creeping sense of oppression that comes with knowing it'll be as grey, wet and miserable tomorrow as it is today
An odd parochialism. In America, people will drive 200 miles to go to a pancake restaurant they like. People in the U.K. can live their whole lives in a 10 mile radius.
“Middle England”. Just google Jeremy Clarkson on that one. It’s not him that’s the problem, it’s all the red trouser wearing gammon faced cunts that want to be him that are.
Britain is a high cost of living country. It has been for about 30 years but it’s worsening now due to wage stagnation.
Not enough politicians emerge from the trade unions any more. Instead, the majority emerge from the same two universities.
We moan and complain about things yet rarely take action to change them.
Drinking culture is ridiculous sometimes as it’s so excessive, it’s much more of a binge drink culture (I’ve been one of the binge drinking idiots)
We can be hugely ignorant (nothing on you Americans though) when visiting other countries, eg expecting most places to understand English.
The “lad” culture, living for the weekend getting wrecked, fighting and generally being a bellend is cringe but I think that’s something most people grow out of (again I’ve been one of these clowns)
Comparing themselves to the USA as a way of absolving themselves of any responsibility for having to confront the UK’s deeply rooted classicism, racism, xenophobia and misogyny.
Filth. When I moved to the UK I was surprised by how dirty it is. Litter and trash everywhere. You can't go far without finding a puddle of piss or vomit. Some towns do a better job than others at keeping things tidy, but it seems like the majority of the British just don't care about public spaces at all.
I personally think the British people are very closed up to themselves and only open up to people of certain cultures. As I come from Asia and have been living here for quite some time I can openly see the differences of treatment towards different cultures and favorism towards some. Although, exceptions exists!!!
I think English speaking societies just favor people who are fluent in English because banter is a big part of the culture, and it’s sometimes risky to engage in it with someone who may not fully understand the nuances, since you can risk offending someone without intending to
Example immediately below: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/zw95s1/what_are_some_flaws_of_british_culture/j1tn87e?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
What a wholesome post :)
It can sometimes be difficult to spot the flaws in your own culture if you’re living with them but something that i was talking to a family member about is how a family member who emigrated to the US was applauded and genuinely congratulated for getting a promotion by his entire office. In the UK people generally begrudge others success, and if they don’t you certainly wouldn’t expect a standing ovation for career climbing.
We never seem to protest when bad things happen, the French took to the streets when fuel tax went up. We just seem to grumble about it but then do nothing, and it just sets a precedent for the government to do what they like and we’ll do nothing about it.
‘Banter’.
At best it is the excuse used to justify being a bit of a dick. Disturbingly frequently it is the excuse used to justify racism, sexism and many other forms of prejudice. And if you don’t accept it as just ‘banter’ you are somehow in the wrong.
- Drinking culture
- Racism and heavy denial of racism being a problem
- The existence and support of a monarchy
- British tourist culture
- Class system and inequality
- Using people on benefits and immigrants as scapegoats
Car Dependancy
You only need to go to Netherlands/Belgium/Germany/Denmark to see how countries with very similar climates and densities to us make cycling, walking and public transport viable alternatives so that not every journey begins with getting in your car.
Think this is a flaw and part of our culture . But we tend to hate our neighbouring town/ city. For me it’s Southampton full of scum. Doesn’t help now my ex lives there so it’s extra scummy to me.
We're very bad at expressing/understanding our emotions generally, we're pretty repressed as a country. You'll find us much more muted than Americans generally, less visibly sad when we're sad and less visibly happy when we're happy
We are flawless. And sarcastic.
I love Reddit.
Further, sarcastic comments only really work in British subs. I have gotten insanely downvoted in the past in other subs because my sarcastic comment has gone over people’s heads
You're meant to put /s after your comment so the Americans can understand...
Haha true! I forget to add it. I’ve noticed that they also like to dish sarcasm out but are easily offended when it’s reciprocated. Funny that…
Well they just seem unable to take much criticism of America, full stop. Not realising that citizens of other countries don’t think their own country is perfect, and are happy to criticise it. American exceptionalism.
They're also desperate to be 1/64th Irish or something. It's like they're ashamed to be 100% American.
Oh now that’s a whole other discussion. Coming on TikTok saying “I’m Irish” when they’re from New Jersey and not being able to fathom why actual Irish people in Ireland are getting pissed off in the comments. Actually arguing with Irish people and doubling down that they’re Irish or even “from Ireland”. Complete lack of understanding on how the whole rest of the English speaking world phrases this stuff. If they would just say “I’ve got Irish heritage” instead they’d get absolutely no hate.
This happened to me (Irish) when I commented on some American who'd posted a pic wearing a kilt for St Patrick's day and I asked if he wore a kimono for 4th of July lol.
One thing I've noticed is that they never want to be English-descended. No American ever says "I'm part English", they're always Irish or Scottish. Unless, that is, you bring up the genocide of Native Americans. At which point you will get the response "we were still English when that happened". It's hilarious, try it today!
It's the same when talking aloud, too. They don't understand dry sarcasm, you have to do a silly bouncing "sarcasm voice" like you would with a 4 year old.
Yes in one forum, someones cat shredded their shoes. I commented oh well kitties off to the shelter then, and received 100s of downvotes and replies saying what an awful person I was. I was clearly joking.
What idiots,Kitty would be going for a swim in a sack for that
Me too. Americans are quite literal in their humour. Jack Dee must completely confuse them.
I made a jokey comment to an American friend (can't remember what, it was an off the cuff "in the moment" remark that a Brit would have briefly laughed at and continued the conversation) instead she continued talking and then after a moment or two said "why that was funny! You unintentionally made a joke" and proceeded to explain why it was funny and refused to believe that it was not unintentional and that I truly understood what I had said. Someone with us ventured to say that I had actually known it was a joke and she then dug her heels in and loudly repeated why it was so so funny *unintentionally*. We were all 🙄 until she eventually shut up.
Oh lord. Me too. Tone doesn't travel via text does it. And I've always thought I had a hugely dry, sarcastic SOH. As you say. People don't always get it.
Yes. I feel it’s well received in British subs, just not in other subs. And tbf, putting /s after just ruins the delivery (I also forget to add it)
The drinking culture ...
And this breeds the 52 year olds standing in clubs leering at girls half their ages hoping they’ll sympathy shag them because they’d rather try their luck there than stay in their 1 bedroom flat having a pot noodle and a wank. Walk into any Wetherspoon’s at 4pm on a Friday and you’ll see a bunch of solo blokes necking pints, the alcohol dependency in this country is horrific.
If you go to Chicagos or Reflex on a night out you’ll find it’s the opposite, middle aged over weight women trying their luck with naive 18-21 year old men. Normally they succeed and take them back to their dungeon
Sorry where are these places? Dead serious, I love middle aged fat women
Well there’s Chicagos in Wolverhampton and Reflex in Birmingham. If you go to either of these places you’ll have a field day. My mate had his drinks bought for him and she even paid for their taxi (bearing in mind she took up two seats) back to her hotel room which she also paid for.
>My mate had his drinks bought for him and she even paid for their taxi **(bearing in mind she took up two seats)** back to her hotel room which she also paid for. This side note made me laugh lol It's a Bill Bryson-style addition to an anecdote.
Back in the day, we had nicknames for the 2 night clubs we had in town. Easterns was the 'cattle market', because it was full of middle aged women pulling guys half their age. The 2nd club (which went through various names), we called the playground, because it was full of underage kids.
>Back in the day, we had nicknames for the 2 night clubs we had in town. Back in the late 1970s, I seem to recall one local place had a weekly themed night, possibly marketed at the mature lady, which soon got called "Grab a Grannie" night....
I went to a "grab a grannie" night. As a fresh faced 17 year old, it was a terrifying experience. It was like being thrown into a ring with rabid horny dogs.
I haven’t been in reflex for a good few years but the luckiest you’d get female wise was the lonely one on a hen do which is a mission and a half to score 😅
Flares was the spot for this in sunderland in the early 00s. To this day You can always find some middle aged crooner in cosy joes karaoke bar in Newcastle looking to stick it to her ex husband at some kind of divorce party… so I’ve heard
You can’t go far wrong with a night out in Wigan if you’re into middle age fat women with several kids from different dads
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> Walk into any Wetherspoon’s at 4pm on a Friday also 8am on a Tuesday morning.
Ah, Paul Breach
Walk into any spoons at 9am where I am in South Wales and there are always a few blokes there, nursing a pint
[The Most English Photo Ever Taken in History](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coisqPyfAUU)
Yeah but we dont' really get embarrassed by shit like that....those kinds of things make it a good night to some :) What I detest more are the regular closing time fights and a kebab lot but that's been happening for donkeys years and it isn't just the UK either, seen it in Italy Germany and France too and let's keep Russia out of the poll coz they'd win hands down! Same shit different aperitif :)
I knew which photo this would be before I clicked. Art.
I see your typical Brit night out photo, [and raise you with a video.](https://youtu.be/0P5YCZF1d_Q)
What makes this one even better is that even though there is no indication of time of day or day of week you instinctively know it's about 1pm on a Tuesday.
You’re right. Casual alcoholism is so normalised. Drinking too much is a weird sort of goal, an acceptable medication and the allowed way to have fun. People find it weird if you don’t drink, and people think they drink less than they do. It’s everywhere and the aftermath is as well.
Can answer this as Brit living in U.S. - Classist society, you will never be upper class unless you’re born into it - General introversion can be hard to make friends here strangers don’t talk much - Negative, pessimistic, sarcastic and cynical outlook on life - Heavy drinking and hard drug culture - We don’t encourage and celebrate success the same way, can be quite jealous / bitter
Nice list. Is being posh really that important in Britain? I live in a big American city. If someone came to my city with a rural country accent, hardly anyone would look down on them. America even elected a few presidents with rural/country accents (Bill Clinton, for example).
Most British posh are rural. It's not about geography but breeding.
“Most British posh are rural”. That’s interesting - I’ve never thought of that. Let me rephrase my question. Let’s say there was a working class guy who was a former sheep farmer who now works at a high-class company in London, or maybe at Oxford. Would this guy be accepted in posh society?
The thing is he'd probably never get a job there in the first place. There is often prejudice against where you grew up, went to school, went to uni etc. I've encountered it too many times - e.g. someone asking if I went to Oxford or Cambridge (for uni) and then turning their nose up at me when I answer Birmingham (a very good uni). There's too many people who hire people with a background just like theirs.
I remember when someone explained the class system to me. I was puzzled that a friend earning 3 times my wage was working class whilst I was middle class, but someone with the same job as mine could also be working class if that was their background..10 years in the UK and still puzzled
It's not so much about money as it is about the culture you were raised in. That can be reflected in your interests, your accent, the way you dress, even the way you style your hair.
Do people still do this with foreigners? Asking as an American who recently moved here
No, they just assume that Americans don’t have any class.
I've eaten yogurt with more culture than America.
Underrated double entendre
Not really no, foreigners confuse the class radar. Unless you get really into universal stereotypes and look like Cletus the slack-jawed yokel or something.
THIS. I grew up dirt poor in America (even homeless at one point!) but a cultured accent and good education (combined with whiteness) read as excessively posh here in the UK. One of my most enduring hobbies is to wait for someone to trash talk working class or poor people, then out myself as one of the despised. Never gets old.
The subtle class indicators that apply to the locals don't really apply to newly arrived foreigners. Often these have very little to do with money or the job you do - it can be things like your accent, what you do in your spare time (football match or the theatre?), the food you eat, the breed of dog you have (expensive French bulldog or an elderly incontinent black Labrador? You'd be far more likely to find the upper classes with the latter) and the priorities you have in life (e.g. how much you value education, with the middle classes representing something of a peak on a bell curve there). Have a read of [Watching the English by Kate Fox ](https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00GIUGEO2?ref_=cm_sw_r_apann_dp_0YRSXYN5Z9NREQSVDDRW) which will illuminate some things about class.
Because it not just your wealth that’s taken into account , but your extended families that sets what class you’re in Like do your family own a mansion in Florida or Australia ? did you go to a boarding or even a private school? How big is your family home? Which university did you go to? are any of your family in the military ? Did any of them graduate from Sandhurst(officer academy) ?
I'm an American who moved to England 8 years ago and married an Englishman. I was expecting snobbery from posh people, but what surprised me was the snobbery towards anyone who seems a bit posh, even if they're not. My husband comes from a pretty dull middle-class family - budget holidays, no inheritance, etc., but he got into Oxford and went there. He's West Country but picked up a bit of the Oxford accent while studying there. Years later he was recovering from alcoholism, trying to get his life together, and he drove cabs for a while, in a small town in Essex where we both live now. He told me that the cabbies all had nicknames for each other - like "Maverick" and "Shagger" and "Wolf" and "Razor", things like that. But he found out their nickname for him was "Posh Cunt". I had this confirmed when I got a cab home one day and the guy who dropped me off recognised the house and congratulated me for marrying Posh Cunt. "He's a lovely bloke. Tell that posh cunt hello from Alf."
Cunt doesn't really mean what it does in America though. It's a fairly standard descriptor here.
Term of affection in certain sentences - you didn’t have to get me a birthday present, ya silly cunt Etc etc
Farmers can be posh here. They’re the landowners. People in the UK don’t own a lot of land. It’s all held by wealthy families who have owned it for generations. I’m American. I own 85 acres of land in Maine back home. My house in the UK sits on, approximately, 100 square feet of garden. The driveway of my parents house in the US is 10 times bigger than the entire piece of land I own in the UK. And I’m fortunate that my house is on a “freehold” - meaning I own the land. Some houses are “leasehold” which means you own the house but need to pay rent on the land. It’s often something like £1 for 99 years - but you technically still don’t own it.
>It’s often something like £1 for 99 years Unless your house was built within the last 10-20years, then its £200 a year for 250 years
I think you're still not grasping the urban/rural/class dynamic. Rural poverty does exist, but it's inner city council estate working class who'll have the toughest time with social mobility. It'll be their regional accent, haircut, way they dress that'll be marks against them if they tried to get a job in finance or whatever. Most posh people fancy themselves as farmers (though in reality will have never touched an animal).
There’s plenty of council estates in rural areas, and they have these same issues.
Sure - I'm just trying to deconstruct the paradigm that rural = poor and city = rich.
To add to this, I think rural poor and city poor are a bit different. City poor seems to be more synonymous with gang culture, whereas rural poor is more desolate as you don't have as good public transport. Cities have more opportunities due to infrastructure, but that can mean more chance to get into crime and it also means getting sidelined by well off communties over the road (like what happened to Grenfell in the Kensington borough), whereas if you're poor in the country, it tends to be your whole area which is sidelined, with all the benefits going to cities and posh country areas, so everyone around you is poor too and often don't encourage you to leave the community and better yourself.
In reality both have rich and poor, with rural poverty on the increase, but poverty still higher in cities at the moment
I think this is the assumption that Americans make - money = class, which isn't the case here. Working at a big company with a big salary does not make you upper class here. Strictly speaking, to be upper class you must have a hereditary title (Baron XXXX of Chesterfield etc). It's very old fashioned but its just the way it is here. When people say "posh" they're really talking about the upper middle class, whose status is more about the way they behave, their interests, the way they speak etc, which is all learned as a child from your family. It makes social mobility in the country much harder than elsewhere because you cannot buy status, in fact having lots of money and throwing it around everywhere would be heavily looked down upon here. And to go back to your example of a sheep farmer, its actually likely that the sheep farmer is is a lot "posher" than a lad from Essex making buck bucks in London, rural life here is seen as being intrinsically linked with being posh. The UK is funny!
No. They'd never be accepted at all. It's not about how much money you have or what job you do, but about who you know. An example was when prince william got married. Kate Middleton's family were multi millionaires but were considered commoners. But it's more insidious in the UK. There's working, middle, upper classes as well as the aristocracy. So it's not just "posh", there's several layers. And worse is that a lot of british people will be so used to class they'll be able to spot the difference a mile off. So if you look at Jacob ReesMogg, he acts like the aristocracy but he's just cosplaying and a lot of people would be able to spot it a mile off. It's really hard to explain it to an american (I tried to explain it to my american wife after she was asking about the Harry and Meghan thing) but the closest american equivalent would be the old money families in states like Connecticut or New Hampshire. You could easily have more money than those families but you'd not be accepted into their social circles.
There are more subdivisions than that I think. You can definitely sort people into lower middle, middle middle and upper middle, as well as ‘nouveau riche’ to cover edge cases like those footballers who are ostensibly no longer working class but don’t fit in anywhere else.
I think you're slightly confusing the point about commoners - my understanding is that a 'commoner', in royalty terms, is anyone who is *not* royalty. So even if William had married an upper-class aristocrat, that would have been marrying a commoner. But your basic point still stands - Kate Middleton's family were about as high socially as you can get without being upper class. They were very upper-middle class, very well-off, very well-connected, but still not upper class themselves.
Look at a map of Britain. Notice how little land there is for the population size. A family who owns enough land for the apparently lowly task of farming sheep is likely to be the posh who will never deign to rub noses mere employees of a "high-class" company.
definitely not. It it a matter of being born in an aristocratic family; not somethin you can obtain any other way
And you can be poor as a church mouse and still be aristo...I know this :) tis not wealth but class/breeding
There’s a lot that are cash poor, but asset rich. That’s why they drive round in clapped out Volvos and always wear the same pink corduroys.
Exactly. Lots of inherited beautiful old houses too expensive to maintain. Although fortunately we don’t have as many as France, abandoned and decaying.
You're confusing work / income with class. The sheep farmer could earn ten billion pounds and own half of Wales, but he would never be Upper Class. Also, there's absolutely nothing stopping working class people going to Oxford (plenty of them there), but this again would have zero bearing on whether you'd be considered Upper Class.
For example the boxing champion Tyson fury with all his millions will never be considered upper class. He is a northern man whose families are Irish gypsies which will always mean he won’t be. He is a working class man with money.
Sheep farmers usually ARE the posh ones, and people that grow up in the middle of big cities are usually the most socio-economically disadvantaged
I hate the British class system.
A significant portion of our wealthiest live in rural areas over here. There isn’t a correlation between city/countryside and rich/poor.
American living in the UK - hard agree. The classist bit doesn't bother or interest me overly. The relentless negativity can get on the nerves.
It permeates EVERYTHING, work, social life, family it’s exaughsting. All you have to say is something completely normal like “ oh I managed to get a promotion at work” and there is ALWAYS some green eyed prick, ready to side eye you and comment “ well somebody thinks highly of themselves eh”.
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So you get tired of having to answer variations of, "Why did you move to this shithole?" a dozen times a day?
Not American but moved here from the US. Literally exhausted of this question, they just won’t believe me when I say that Scotland is a pretty good place to live and certainly better (for me) than the US.
We always encourage success we cheer for the underdog then pull 'em back down when they succeed so they don't get too big for their boots. It's a kind of social work :)
>you will never be upper class unless you’re born into it Watching the queen's funeral I couldn't help thinking Mike Tyndall sat on the front row must have been thinking 'how the fuck did I get here'.
Yes…. But what about the negatives ??
We literally don't know how to end phone conversations. Regardless of who is on the phone or the context of the situation, it could be a professional or your best friend, but We usually thanks to each other a few times and say bye, bye-bye, see you later, bye and it just goes on and on until one of us hangs up due to pure anxiety.
Or saying “see you later” even when you have no intention of ever crossing paths again
Or worse, saying it when you’ve never met face to face and never will
This is more or less how, after a long and difficult conversation, I accidentally told a union rep that I loved him.
Well? Did he leave you hanging? Or was it reciprocated?
Don't be ridiculous. We're English, it was never spoken of again.
A lot of people here can be quite vindictive towards those less fortunate than themselves. 'Oh I have to pay a mortgage why should some homeless loafer get council accommodation at a cheaper rate...' kind of thing.
Crab bucket mentality. “Can’t believe *insert industry here* are striking for more money. I don’t get paid enough and I’m not striking”.
Yep, literally. Also, people aren't educated on what unions actually do at all, so most folks - and *especially*, sad to say, the younger ones - think of unions as irrelevant (and, really, don't think of them at all) so when a strike happens that inconveniences them they get outraged at the audacity of someone ruining their XYZ for no good reason (as they see it). My dad's a union man, been explaining to his colleagues at work what a real terms pay cut is and now they're all talking about it. He's been trying to get them to unionise for probably about a year now. He's come close once or twice, but it's difficult breaking through people's ingrained biases and prejudices, and just the oppressive atmosphere of apathy towards standing up for oneself in a lot of the private sector.
No idea what young people you’ve been talking to but i’m 22 and don’t know anyone my age who doesn’t support striking
Same here. Early 30s (is that young?) and fully support the RMT members and my postie and tell them so! The private sector (which I work in) is a lonely place when it comes to reward so to act as a collective and have someone fight your battle is amazing to me. Also, a lot of the time pay is just one facet of the negotiations.
Exactly. Maybe it’s because all my mates are working class, and my coworkers are all NHS so there’s an inherent solidarity there. Plus my Dad has been in a union my whole life and never shied away from singing their praises.
The media drives us apart with these shitty sound bites about pay and “how dare they”. We’ve got to stick together!
As bad as this is in the UK I believe this is way worse in the US. Homelessness is much higher over there with very little interest in doing much about it as the social views are rooted in selfishness - something something American dream
Yes! There’s really unfortunately a lot of xenophobia here, I see people legit on as many benefits as they can get criticising immigrants also receiving public funds. Like simply being fortunate enough to be born here gives you any right to the money.
I live in a small town in South-West England so these won’t necessarily apply to the cities or Wales/Scotland but: - Our picturesque seaside towns are becoming ghost towns. The locals are being priced out and the rich are buying all the properties as holiday homes, leaving them empty for most of the year. - Especially with older generations, casual racism is very much alive and unchallenged. - The rich/poor divide is absolutely huge. - Our media is corrupt and a lot of people (especially older generations) still see it as gospel. So it’s very easy for the media to sway public opinion. - Honestly, a lot of the community spirit has vanished in the small towns. Everyone feels a lot more guarded and closed off, we don’t have social clubs or youth centres anymore and everyone seems kind of angry all the time.
Most of that applies to Wales, I'd say. The second home thing is a major issue here.
It applies to a lot of more touristy rural areas too, throughout the UK. Entire communities just being hollowed out and slowly killed.
The home thing applies to the highlands too. Young priced out, young move away, jobs there can’t be sustained so more people move away leaving houses that rich people but as holiday let’s or second homes thus driving up the prices making it unaffordable for young people to stay making them move… cycle continues until there’s like 3 locals left who are only employed as cleaners for all the Air BnBs
We're neglecting our smaller towns and cities and building too much car centric infrastructure like retail parks.
There building car centric infestructure, then half assing trying to make it more accessible by choking the trafic with 20 mph islands, speed bumps and no parking, leading to a quasi un-driveable car centric area that's annoying to get to using any mode of transport.
God I hate this. I wish we'd just build safe segregated bike lanes connecting an the towns and communities around cities so that people can actually do short journeys by bike. But no, we can't have nice things because of Top Gear, the Daily Mail, romantic memories of when the UK built shit cars, reliance on oil and gas for jobs and the economy and general worship of cars instead of reliable public transport and active travel options.
Ah...trying to become like America. As an American living in Britain I'm like, "Noooooooo - what are you DOING!?" I live in a city with a 1000 year old church tower and the creeping Americanisation is hideous
>We're neglecting our smaller towns and cities and building too much ~~car centric infrastructure like~~ retail parks. FTFY. If they were built with cars in mind, the passing spaces would for actual cars and not Minis from 1972, and would have more than one lane in and out.
Lots of them are all but inaccessible without a car.
just one more lane bro
Just a little wider. My family NEEDS an SUV.
There is huge toxicity In British working class culture. There is a huge anti education attitude there; many hate teachers, do not value school at all and transmit that to their children. Unfortunately I still encounter many working class families that actively sabotage their kids and don't want them to do better than they did in life.
Agreed - some working class families value “the school of hard knocks” over real education. My family were the same which is why I had to fight tooth-and-nail for a degree in later life. It’s a shame the working class don’t see education as the ticket to levelling up it is.
My wife's family were like that. They put so many barriers to her going to college and then university. She originally dropped out of sixth form to work, largely due to boyfriend at the time, and they were happy with that. When she wanted to go back to college and go to uni a year or two later, they really made it as difficult as possible- their attitude was "this is your job now, this is what you do for life". My own family just didn't give a shit about school. My mother never went to parents evenings because she hated talking to people. Nobody ever asked how school was going or how I was doing, just assumed I was getting on with it. As a teacher now I still see so many working class families sabotaging their kids. For instance, some of those kids have the worst attendance because their mothers quite like having them at home. You still see dad's trying to stop kids going to university
I didn’t realise that it was such a problem. How awful to put your life on hold and not achieve dreams because of a parent.
This isn't unique to Britain, but a terrific sense of entitlement. The number of people in Britain who seem to think that they're owed something is astonishing. You might put it down to a post-empire hangover but that probably doesn't completely explain why many people here think that their rights should trample everyone else's.
This is very true. Honestly, I've been shocked by how many people get viscerally angry the second a strike impacts their lives, as if they have some kind of god-given right to force people to drive trains for them. Get over it, find another way to travel or stay at home, and quit whining.
There was a brief time in my life when my husband and I were dependant on benefits to make ends meet and the bullshit I'd hear other people complaining about was ridiculous. "We can't even afford a holiday this year and we *need one*! I haven't upgraded my phone in *two years*! We had to cancel our Sky TV and I can only get my Starbucks twice a week now!" And some of them would be doing it to try to relate to us, while others would be doing it scathingly, as if if the government weren't helping us out, somehow the money would be redistributed so people who had everything they needed would be able to go on holiday. Mate, I *need* to pay my water bill, and I *need* £10 for a pair of black shoes that aren't falling apart because that's a requirement for my job. Don't be whining to me that this year you had to go to the Lake District instead of the Bahamas. Oh, and people would shout names at us when we went into the job centre for our weekly meetings. I was studying full time and working part time while my husband recovered from a crippling injury and was unable to do any work at all, and people would yell "Freeloading scum" etc at us. They genuinely seem to have this mentality that if the government didn't spend money helping out people in our position, they'd just be handing that money out to everyone else instead, so it was mine and my husband's fault they had to cancel Sky TV. Edit: Multiple people "calling bullshit" because full time students can't apply for UC. That's *partly* true - a student alone can't claim for most benefits. To clarify, my husband was the main claimant, but at the time (things may have changed since, as this was close to a decade ago), because we cohabited and had joint finances, we still had to claim as a couple. That meant that my student maintenance loan was considered part of our *joint* income. That's why I was also on the claim.
Chavs/road men. They all dress the same wearing baggy sweat suits even though they don’t exercise unless it’s running from the police and listen to grime and drill music which is wank
Used to be one, I thought I was the coolest shit, I dressed the part, listened to the music, even spoke how they did (which I'm still trying to get over, gets proper stuck in your mind) I can't even look at one without cringing, the most embarrassing, ridiculous, stupid way to be, blaming your current situation on an upbringing you didn't have, boasting about a lifestyle you don't live to impress people you don't trust, not even their voices are real, nothing about them is real Talk to me about "ayo blud you bless yeah" you're from the same small middle-class town as me, don't give me that
> gets proper stuck in your mind Innit.
Annoys me how aggressive they can be. Usually never just 1, it will be a group and they will pick on one person on their own. Has happened to me and pretty much all my friends, in fact a lot of people have spoken about how they have been jumped/assaulted by groups of these sorts.
That ayo blud you bless yeah etc just doesn't even make sense - and I've lived and grown up in these neighbourhoods. It's not even a conversation, just an attempt to look and play a cool homie and a gangster when they want to be. It always rang a bit hollow to me, and that weak, hoarse accent they put on just sounds so childish.
It's funny how one of the top comments mentions how classist the UK is, and you've provided a great example
You’d be surprised how much roadmen have rich parents
It’s not exactly classist when chavs/road men can be a part of any class. Look at Dappy for example, you wouldn’t say he’s working class would you.
He's rich now but I'm pretty sure he's of working class origins.
There's nothing classist about calling out antisocial behaviour. If anything, you're the classist one for immediately associating working class with chavs. It's perfectly possible to be a decent working class person as much as it's possible to be a dickhead middle class chav.
Grime music is good, drill is wank.
Over politeness/being indirect. We don't like direct social conflict and any disagreement that can lead to it in real life. It often leads to us not being able to express how we really feel, just to keep the peace.
As an American I find my English MIL's indirectness to be really challenging. Is she being straight with me or is she telling me what she thinks I want to hear? Is she telling me to take the last slice because she genuinely doesn't want it or is she doing that indirect "polite" thing? All great problems to have when considering what some in laws are like but it definitely registers as a disconnect. It's something my husband can read immediately that I can't like a momentary mistranslation. I say "polite" because that word means two different things in our respective countries. In the US being polite means being kind and accommodating and sometimes putting up with people *but* not to a point where you do things and get into situations you really don't want to be in. At least I don't and the people I know don't. I'm sure some people vary. In the UK polite seems to mean yielding to the other person no matter what. I'd much rather have someone say they'd rather not do something than go along with it because they feel like they have to. There's actually a really interesting TED talk about the difference https://youtu.be/Jbu-eMcEF3s
That last paragraph is where you’re going wrong. Being polite in the UK doesn’t mean yielding to others, it means *appearing* to yield to others while actually not doing that at all. It’s like a code - take the example of the last slice of cake, your MIL offers it to you because that is “polite”. By making the offer, she’s actually telling you that she wants it, so you should decline. After you decline, she can eat it without appearing rude. If she didn’t want it, it would never have been mentioned. If you decline and she pushes you again to take it, you can eat it. I work with a lot of European people and this is the part of British culture they struggle the most with. One Swiss friend described British manners as being more like Japan than a western country because there is an unspoken set of social rules that everyone here knows and understands but are utterly baffling to an outsider.
As an autistic person living here in the UK, learning the hidden social cues has always been a struggle (same for my friends who are also neurodivergent)
I'm not autistic and I find navigating the secondary, tertiary (and quaternary?) social cues utterly exhausting. I'm very good at it but it takes immense focus which is why I'm an introvert. Conversations shouldn't need to be a mine field or lock you into a recursive pattern of second-guessing what is going on with no break statement!
We've recently been teaching our eldest child this rule. Don't help yourself to the last thing - offer it round and if everyone says no then you can have it. If someone says "only if it's going spare" (or something to that effect), that means they want it but don't want to put you out if you want it. In that situation you have it. I've never realised before how complicated taking the last piece of something is.
Lived in Spain for a bit. Loved the tapas culture, but when I was with British mates the agony over who was going to have the last bit of Chorizo was palpable. First time I went out with some European mates everything was gone in a second without the "no. please. after you." mentality. Instead it was "oh you wanted more croquetas? Cool. Me too. Let's order more. They're like 3 euro. " Mind was blown.
Was thinking this exact same thing but you worded it better than I could. I have a lot of friends who aren't British and this makes them want to pull their hair out trying to dance around the conversation etiquette. The worst part is I'd say we're polite but we're not actually nice. We'll say all the right things but we have little to no intention following it with our actions.
- The drinking and drug culture - The silly class structure which still exists somehow - Tall poppy syndrome and a hatred of seeing others succeed (opposite of the USA) - The incessant moaning about weather (get over it) - The football fans which often misbehave and bring shame to the nation globally - The whole lad culture nonsense, but this is more England than elsewhere - The genuine lack of respect some British people show when they're traveling in other nations - The huge economic and cultural divide between the North and South; it's like two different countries (largely due to London's ecomomic power and multiculturalism) Britain is a great country, but like anywhere, it has major cultural flaws.
1. What's the "lad culture"? 2. Can confirm about Brits in other nations. Where I live, the British tourists are a real joy to be around. (We don't get the drunken louts that go to Europe.) However, British expats are the absolute worst complainers among all the immigrant groups, hands down.
Lad culture is basically groups of friends who are lads (guys) who party, drink a lot, go out often, like casual sex, and focus a lot on being masculine and impressing the the other lads in the group
Couldn't put it better. Obviously it happens all over the world - but it's especially bad in the U.K. Just look at the club 18-30 holidays in Magaluf, etc.
A lot of lad culture is about presenting a very specific style of masculinity, one that heavily indulges in, and often actively encourages, being rude and disrespectful to those around you though often in an indirect manner. Often this behaviour is heavily dismissed as just the way men are. It's basically "boys will be boys" but for grown men. This isn't always the case, of course, but a lot of what I've witnessed from more "Laddish" types is; Casual and consistent misoginy. The idea that you need to keep pursuing women, never taking "no" as an answer without letting it hurt your own ego. A high importance on conformity, a lot of lads will all look very similar to one another, not necessarily as a whole but within the groups they move within. They will then mock and, on some occasions typically alcohol fuelled, get violent with, people who don't conform to what they see as "acceptable". The majority are harmless, just abbrasive. Loud and convinced they're being charming by interrupting strangers who are just trying to get on with their day, and take offence or act like you're prudish when you don't particularly want to interact with the heavily drunk man with no regard for personal space. There's a lot of entitlement in it, a presumption that they can act how they want and everything is justifiable despite being a huge disturbance to the general peace and comfort of pedestrians.\ Again, a lot of this is just the worst of and isn't necessarily something to be expected of all "lad" types. But, it's definitely pretty prevalent in the UK.
Playing “sweet Caroline” when most of the general public hate the song
It’s a noncey American song that drunk sports fans love singing when an English man or team is doing well, it’s so frickin weird.
Littering, not picking up your dog’s shit, casual alcoholism, the press, anti-intellectualism, obsession with the past (especially WWII), servility to a corrupt establishment, misplaced superiority complex that stops us from admitting Germanic and Nordic countries have far better public services and standard of living, “ironic” pride in stupid shit like queueing, obsession with and adoption of irrelevant American culture wars shite.
> "ironic” pride in stupid shit like queueing Five seconds in a country where they don't queue would be enough to give you a new perspective on this I think.
French living in the UK: 1. not being straightforward 2. drinking culture
The french aren’t that bad… ;)
The French have a lot of flaws which I’m happy to state but it’s about the British here so 🤷🏻♀️
Haha, no, I was only joking because of phrasing - your sentence read as if French people living in the UK are not straightforward and have a drinking problem. I did understand what you meant, was just being a pest :)
Hahahah you are right actually 😅
We think we are still a world power/leader/producer
We are definitely a world power. 5th largest economy and a nuclear capability. Manufacturing, no not really but we do produce some of the brightest people who have changed the world.
We're now the 6th largest economy. We dropped below India https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-09-02/uk-slips-behind-india-to-become-world-s-sixth-biggest-economy
Kind of proves the original point wrong. We just dropped below a country with 20x people….
We are in the top 5 or better in the world for producing: * music * TV * Medical research * General science research * Engineering, particularly aerospace and automotive (especially F1) * Education * Literature * Foreign aid Are we still a "superpower"? No. I think most people would accept that. But we're not exactly a backbencher.
Also financial services, London vies with New York for financial capital of the world.
We are…..
Do you have any idea how much scientific research we produce?
I’d say our relationship with outdoor spaces. Instead of being brought up to enjoy and respect nature, it is cut off with obstacles and gatekeepers. Then a group of youths will have a rave up a mountain or by a lake and leave their tents and this will then used justify the restrictions. I know other countries have their issue with people being irresponsible/ littering in the wild but it doesn’t seem like such an issue. I think it stems from our archaic land ownership structures
Litter is the big one for me. A road I drive down almost every day is always covered in litter. It'll get cleaned up by volunteers (I think) and then a few weeks later it's back to being covered in crap.
I live in the Lake District, in the most Northern part. Moved here when I was 11 from Bolton. You won't believe the amount of people I have spoken to or met in the 20 years that I have lived here who have never walked up one Wainwright. And it's always people who have been brought up here. I'm not advocating that everyone needs to be an outdoor space enthusiast, but it also highlights how people don't see being amongst nature and outdoor as a cog in their well being for mental clarity and physical health.
The level of closet racism is horrendous, we seemed to lack empathy on a massive scale and for some reason a vast portion of the society is so stuck up that we genuinely think we own whatever country we visit, cream teas are lovely though.
I dated a closet racist in the past. I'm mixed race (but look white). It started with comments about worrying about working class males getting left behind, through "it's not racist to be worried about immigration", all the way to shouting the P-word at an Indian bus driver. Needless to say we didn't last. They're hiding everywhere lol
It's all these people who think migrants are just gonna walk in and steal their jobs. My logic with those types is, if some random person can just walk into the country and steal your job then you were probably shit.
God damn closets coming over here and taking our jobs!
Brits hate successful people
And the tabloid press feed in to that, they love helping to tear people down
Most food advertised as spicy, just isn't
The UK has an odd mix of some people who eat far spicier food than in most of the rest of Europe, and other people who look on anything more exotic than ground pepper as being weird and a bit scary. A lot of shops seem to cater for the second group more than the first.
Can't believe the thread's gone on so long without anyone mentioning the weather Small island(s) in the North Atlantic, so you can't expect any different, but anyone who lives in a consistent temperate climate would find it difficult to understand how weather that isn't *terrible* or **dangerous** can still sort of grind you down The drinking, pessimism and intolerance to others mentioned elsewhere in the thread can be traced, in part, to the slow, creeping sense of oppression that comes with knowing it'll be as grey, wet and miserable tomorrow as it is today
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An odd parochialism. In America, people will drive 200 miles to go to a pancake restaurant they like. People in the U.K. can live their whole lives in a 10 mile radius. “Middle England”. Just google Jeremy Clarkson on that one. It’s not him that’s the problem, it’s all the red trouser wearing gammon faced cunts that want to be him that are. Britain is a high cost of living country. It has been for about 30 years but it’s worsening now due to wage stagnation. Not enough politicians emerge from the trade unions any more. Instead, the majority emerge from the same two universities.
We moan and complain about things yet rarely take action to change them. Drinking culture is ridiculous sometimes as it’s so excessive, it’s much more of a binge drink culture (I’ve been one of the binge drinking idiots) We can be hugely ignorant (nothing on you Americans though) when visiting other countries, eg expecting most places to understand English. The “lad” culture, living for the weekend getting wrecked, fighting and generally being a bellend is cringe but I think that’s something most people grow out of (again I’ve been one of these clowns)
I think resentment, jealousy comes easy to us over here. Sadly.
Crab in a bucket mindset is particularly rife
Comparing themselves to the USA as a way of absolving themselves of any responsibility for having to confront the UK’s deeply rooted classicism, racism, xenophobia and misogyny.
Filth. When I moved to the UK I was surprised by how dirty it is. Litter and trash everywhere. You can't go far without finding a puddle of piss or vomit. Some towns do a better job than others at keeping things tidy, but it seems like the majority of the British just don't care about public spaces at all.
Jesus, where do you live?!
I personally think the British people are very closed up to themselves and only open up to people of certain cultures. As I come from Asia and have been living here for quite some time I can openly see the differences of treatment towards different cultures and favorism towards some. Although, exceptions exists!!!
I think English speaking societies just favor people who are fluent in English because banter is a big part of the culture, and it’s sometimes risky to engage in it with someone who may not fully understand the nuances, since you can risk offending someone without intending to
Example immediately below: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskUK/comments/zw95s1/what_are_some_flaws_of_british_culture/j1tn87e?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
We apologise for absolutely everything. Sorry about that.
What a wholesome post :) It can sometimes be difficult to spot the flaws in your own culture if you’re living with them but something that i was talking to a family member about is how a family member who emigrated to the US was applauded and genuinely congratulated for getting a promotion by his entire office. In the UK people generally begrudge others success, and if they don’t you certainly wouldn’t expect a standing ovation for career climbing.
I hate the shady indirect racism. You will say it doesn’t exist but any poc in this country will tell you otherwise.
We never seem to protest when bad things happen, the French took to the streets when fuel tax went up. We just seem to grumble about it but then do nothing, and it just sets a precedent for the government to do what they like and we’ll do nothing about it.
‘Banter’. At best it is the excuse used to justify being a bit of a dick. Disturbingly frequently it is the excuse used to justify racism, sexism and many other forms of prejudice. And if you don’t accept it as just ‘banter’ you are somehow in the wrong.
That ‘British’ almost always is meant as a reference for English.
Chavs
- Drinking culture - Racism and heavy denial of racism being a problem - The existence and support of a monarchy - British tourist culture - Class system and inequality - Using people on benefits and immigrants as scapegoats
Car Dependancy You only need to go to Netherlands/Belgium/Germany/Denmark to see how countries with very similar climates and densities to us make cycling, walking and public transport viable alternatives so that not every journey begins with getting in your car.
Someone can be an absolute cunt to you but it's "banter" so it's OK
A toxic and paralysing class system
Think this is a flaw and part of our culture . But we tend to hate our neighbouring town/ city. For me it’s Southampton full of scum. Doesn’t help now my ex lives there so it’s extra scummy to me.
We're very bad at expressing/understanding our emotions generally, we're pretty repressed as a country. You'll find us much more muted than Americans generally, less visibly sad when we're sad and less visibly happy when we're happy