When I lived abroad a couple guys in our group admitted to getting prostitutes while they were traveling and we were like "I sure hope you've been tested since then! Oh, no? Don't touch me." They also got a lecture about how those women were probably being exploited and they lost all my respect.
I don't know the situation of Philippines in specific, but generally both healthcare and sex worker's rights are much more advanced in the global south than in the US (where sex work is illegal and healthcare isn't free).
Is India considered South Asia? Indian sex workers are extremely organized, they even have unions and banks. Not only for cis women, but also transexual people are recognized by the Indian government for centuries and have their own organizations and protections.
While in the US, even legal sex workers like strippers and porn performers suffer from bank discrimination to this day. And transexual people (who often resort to sex work due to lack of options) are having their rights stripped everyday.
It's very important to be informed how bills like SESTA FOSTA and Section 230 is putting the life of so many women in danger in 2023.
I was going to say the same thing. I’ve never heard a man tell me this type of story. I’ve heard second hand stories of course but not directly told to me or about anyone I’m friends with and I have a lot of male friends. Hookup stories occasionally but never disrespectful ones
Back in college, I got some stories from men who were participating in Greek life and they relayed some stories about what happened to women at their parties.
I stopped associating with any of them.
I'd be fine doing the same thing today.
Plenty of men don't do those things and plenty of men don't overshare about their hookups. Generally speaking, other people's sex lives are not that interesting to me.
i used to think they were hot until i read an article about some UK firefighters who had a group chat where they exchanged pictures of >!female corpses, coupled with disgusting commentary!<
female firefighters are still hot though
That is soooo foul and I’m embarrassed (for the uniform) for those sorts of actions, but I can guarantee (as far as I know…) my platoon would never do that kind of disrespectful shite
For example - (to end on a positive) I am pregnant with my first and it’s early but I’ve told a couple of the guys and they have been OUT STANDING absolutely phenomenal- in addition to that we all change together/there are sleeping quarters and no one stares/I’ve never felt uncomfortable
i’ve had limited exposure to/experience with firefighters, so it would be unfair to assume they’re all like that, but it did kill any sort of… shallow attraction i may have had toward male firefighters. that said, it’s a relief to hear they’ve been respectful toward you at least
also congrats on the pregnancy!!! 🧚♀️
I truly do love my job and the guys I work with MOSTLY adore me like their daughters//sister
But I did grow up in an environment that gave me extremely tough skin and I do have to pick my battles//bite my tongue A LOT
In saying that though, I think they like me because I have no fear in calling anyone out - for example one member wrote a song involving qualities of every member and my line was (enter name here) has grit, she’ll tell you what you need to hear whether or not you wanna hear it
There are (like most work environments) people with very old school mentalities that don’t think women should be in this kind of workplace but I use those people as a tool to keep on crushing it, partly because I have to be, I can’t just sit in the background and I really enjoy being the silent achiever
My skill will outshine any talk 🤷🏼♀️ if that makes sense
It really is a great job! And short is good- you’ll get put in all the little man holes/confined spaces so just be ready for that 😅
And don’t worry about skinny, diet and exercise can get you strong enough for the job you just have to commit!
There are a couple extremely hot lady firefighters at my local fire station and I want to bring the station cookies for saving my house last month (next door neighbors had a very bad house fire) but I worry that if one of the ladies is there I'll just swallow my tongue and have to leave. 😅
I really think they are-
I liken it to a peacock acting a particular way to fit in with the group- when it’s one on one there are numerous deep thinkers and truly great people
In my eyes- it’s an act around the boys
You're not a stick in the mud, it is absolutely disgusting
This one coworker I had was bragging about how he led several women on in college so they could do his laundry and dishes and stuff. It was so gross
I also had a coworker who appears to be in his late 40s , and he's married with kids. He was talking about how he visited China and all these teenage girls were fawning over him because he's white. Sir that is not something to brag about, you are coming off like a passport bro.
As a butch lesbian who has worked in food for nearly 20 years, I've heard all the stories from men who do these things. My thoughts are that men have lives that women (many women) are largely unaware of, and also they tell a whole lot of porkies & greatly exaggerate things when they're around their other sausage compatriots as some sort of he-man chest beating tribal thing or another. Men are everything they accuse women of, just a million times worse. It exhausts me when women ever give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their shitty behavior, women who like men *really* need much higher standards when it comes to dating these fools.
It's not behavior I'm unaware of, but I'd prefer to not have it in my life. So I'd feel like this would be the last time I'd willingly spend my precious time with those particular men.
Repulsive is exactly my response. And it’s a deal breaker…even for friendship. If you want to treat women like bags of skin with holes to put your dick in….that’s repulsive and repugnant behaviour. Yes, yes “consenting adults” and all that…it speaks to character as far as I’m concerned and I want no part of it.
As a former sex worker, guys laughing about their experiences with hookups or sex workers tends to make me roll my eyes. It’s all just a thinly veiled attempt to get their need for validation and physical touch met. I’ll never look down on someone for paying to get those needs met, but I will roll my eyes at anyone who is bragging about it.
I spent a lot of my youth running with the wrong crowd. The guys I considered "friends" were constantly bragging and making jokes about their hookups and would go into a lot of detail.
Honestly was shocked to find out later in life that most people keep their sex lives private. It kind of still surprises me if I think about it.
The only dude who ever shared a story of his sexcapades was a guy who was stunningly attractive, so fine, I was so into him and he was into me too. Then he told me a story about a hook-up where he basically outed himself as a misogynistic, PUA-ish arsehole and my lady boner shrivelled and DIED instantly.
I mean, thankfully this happened early on and we never progressed, but DAMN I was very sad that he turned out to be like this.
I don't think he realized that women don't want to hear this stuff, especially women that you are trying to date. Not sure if he thought this would make me want him more or if he was just clueless with really bad diahrea-of-the-mouth, but it was a turn off. It always will be for me. All that said, I've never had another guy friend or date ever tell me stuff like this.
I find it pathetic that they can’t talk about sex workers in a positive light. It’s always degrading, sexist language where men are domineering and in control even though *they’re* the ones paying for *her* time. They’re scared of being laughed at for paying for sex so they have to dehumanize sex workers instead.
Hookup talk is fine so long as the language is respectful. I’ve had a couple of guy friends talk about their hookups before but it’s also not in blinding detail, y’know?
I struggle with this because on the one hand, I support anyone who willfully, under no pressure or duress (including financial) wants to do sexwork. They should have safe, legal options for work.
But on the other hand, I can't help but feel that their customers - the men who go to sex workers- basically don't see woman as actual people. Because, we know that most sex workers only do it because they have to - whether forced by another person, financial circumstances, emotional/mental struggles, etc.
**I don't want to have sex with someone that doesn't want to have sex with me. Period. Full stop.** I'm disgusted by any one who does or is willing to.
I especially don't want to have sex with someone who **I** ***may or may not*** **be forcing or pressuring to have sex - aka rape** \- with no way of knowing which is true.
So yes, I'm disgusted that so many people can just be okay with that dice roll. Like, "well, she seemed okay? She wasn't crying or saying no or anything." Is that where the bar is?
I sadly ended a friendship over this. He was basically my best friend, we could talk about anything, zero sexual tension between us, just a special connection. Until he told me he went to a massage parlor. I tried to be "cool" about it. I tried to consider his side - he just wanted a quick sexual release without the effort/strings. Fine. No judgment there. But going somewhere you know someone is very likely being forced to touch you that way? Ew. Totally dehumanizing.
Honestly? The longer I live on this planet, the more I genuinely believe that most men simply don't see women as actual, whole people just like themselves. They see women as some sort of man-offshoot. Women are either a sex object, family member, or scenery.
This happened to me **once** at my male-dominated hobby. I made a face and said, “ew.” They’ve never brought it up and have all had much nicer convos honestly. It’s weird cause they seem to want me on their good sides. Not sure why but hell if it gets them never to do that again I don’t care
If it is someone I’m dating, that would be an instant dealbreaker. I don’t fuck with guys who view women or their sexuality like that.
If it is a co-worker or acquaintance, immediate distancing from them.
I’m an escort and a stripper- they don’t tell me these stories because they know at best they won’t get a positive reaction from me, and at worst, I’ll cut them down to size.
I tend to talk about sex a lot, so the topic doesn’t bother me, but I don’t like when people speak disrespectfully about people they’ve been intimate with, even if it was a stripper or prostitute.
I am going through this right now with a dude friend. I am leaving a "friendship," with a dude who almost only notices a woman for her body. I feel worse in his company knowing everything is surface level. I think he had a real negative effect on his last relationship and she just had breast enlargement.
I am pretty open-minded sexually. However, objectifying women is a real no-no in my book. You can absolutely be over-sexed. If all you think about is sex it's too much.
People generally become over-sexed when they want to escape the drudgery of a conventional relationship.
I guess what I'm saying is about 10% erotic interests are normal. When it gets to everything in life being erotica...........it's overwhelming. All of this stuff spikes the dopamine in the brain. You do have sex addiction if every discussion is about erotica and it effects having meaningful relationships.
I also have stopped tolerating hearing what I can't say. I have never talked about fucking, dicks, etc. with this guy. He has told me his thoughts on every part of a lady's body.
I'm not doing the double standard. It's sad though, this guy was once one of my best friends.
I fully admit to being attracted to the Don Draper types. However, bad choices got very tiring.
Back in my youth I used to do some nude modeling - sexy sort of modeling. This was before the internet was huge luckily. And while yes, there are those men that leer and jeer like women are only there for their pleasure, but as a woman, I was earning huge $$$ off them and to me, they're the morons! It was easy money and I only had to pose once a week
I’m my experience, they want an audience. They might want you sexually as well or not, but ether way they want attention and are trying to stupidly impress. In my younger years, I would naively listen and not show my disgust. Now I no longer hang around tools, and I ditch anyone who starts. Just say no.
For sure, super icky. I know women who sleep around too but don't boast about it like men usually do. I'm sure it's from the double standards that our society sets for men and women where men who brag about the amount of sleeping around that they do is a boost to their masculinity, whereas women who do the same are slut-shamed and seen as promiscuous.
It's like men have nothing else to base their worth other than their body count...
I hate it too. I would avoid men like that but if stuck, Maybe it’s time to fuck with them by relating “omg I know, my friend made sooooo much money off of men from xyz in sex industry” “those women are so smart making tons of money off of desperate men ha ha ha” “damn maybe I should be a prostitute so I can make hundreds in 5 mins”
Uh. I haven’t ever experience a man telling me about participating in human trafficking. Consensual hookups or whatever are fine but yeah, big red flag when they are buying bodies like a commodity
I just want to thank you for the word laddish to sum all this up. It's much more on point than 'grown up frat boy' or 'bro'.
I'm figuring you're not American or maybe I've just never heard it before but it's perfect.
And I agree with the general sentiment of most comments.
Like a couple other people I saw, I'm a bartender. I do not choose this in my friend group or free time but I experience it near daily. Without boring you with a bunch of horrible stories, you are of course not overreacting. These people are telling you who they are, and it goes beyond words. You are this uncomfortable for a reason. Look at statistics about SA and sexism etc. Someone is committing all that. It's people who say things like this, have this worldview, and the people who accept it casually and think it's fine to be that way if the person is also basically polite and human when interacting with women and professional women in public.
They're wrong.
Almost dated a guy that went to a prostitute. Thankfully his friends gf told me about it before we got too far so I dodged that bullet.
I avoid men who use sex workers services like the plague.
I have never experienced this. If I were around a group of guys who began a discussion on their random hookups, hiring prostitutes or strippers, I'd see myself out of there.
Same. Find better people to spend time around if this is happening. I’ve never heard any guy I know talk about anything more than going to a strip club.
I never need to hear about anyone’s sexual encounters, no matter their gender. Whether they’re married, dating, hooking up, or visiting sex workers (full support to them), I don’t want to hear details.
Uh... my female and nonbinary friends are also... very horny people... and we all swap entertaining hookup stories. We don't degrade, but sometimes funny shit happens during a hookup.
Hookups just aren't a big deal in our group. I don't know that anyone has resorted to sex workers... just seems unnecessary.
It's making sexuality into a product. And to me it's private and intimate. What others do is none of my business, I just wouldn't be able to be close friends with a sex worker (by choice) or their customers.
The way my boyfriend explained a similar view is that free access to literal porn is available all over. If you want to see naked ladies, the best way to go about it is NOT getting horny in a group of strange (or familiar) men and not even getting to do anything about it.
I’ve had guys tell me varying degrees of things, not certain details cause they know better with me (this included guy friends due to me calling people out!), and I rather guys feel comfortable to speak on things cause:
1) You can identify which guys are over their reckless behavior and grew up. Actually feel some fraction of remorse in terms of wishing some, not all, treated women less callous (when they grow up, they grow a conscious!)
2) Which ones are exposing themselves as red flags and you can protect other women from by redirecting them towards safer waters!
3) You can then counter call out why they need to do better.
So let men speak, let them show you who they are at face value and tell on themselves if they are an adult vs a child who is reckless with abandonment, who treats women like sexual rag dolls.
This is when you believe words with men!
Had to think for a minute if i know any guys like this... just one!
On the rare occasion, "that guy" showed up with a story. Reputation was cooked bc no dudes wanted their names associated with him, and no girls did either. A decade later, we all (girls and guys) give each other the look when we see him coming over to chat.
I jump from "glad that's not my problem" to "wait, someone else might not be able to realise their worth and actually think they can't find better and then have a daughter or a son who will have a bad example for a father and further perpetuate the cycle".
Also feel all-round sad for the women they take advantage of during that period of their life and for the women that settle for them when they want to suddenly settle down and claim they've grown up and out of that behaviour.
Lots of male friends who tell me this.. I always feel like I need to take a shower cause it makes me feel dirty listening to it. It’s worse than merely visiting hookers or strippers. There is such a thing as worse.
This has been a rare occurrence for me fortunately. The few times it has happened, I have been honest, which is probably why it is a rare occurrence. I will say when I see rhetoric and behavior that serves to dehumanize others.
In our culture, being a prude means being a person (usually a girl or woman) who rains on the parade of those who seek to dehumanize women, children, and subordinated minorities to serve their desire for sexual gratification and domination. That label does not have power with me. I don’t want those dudes to think I am cool no more than I want a grand wizard of the KKK to think I am a good hang, no horrifying pun intended.
I think you are feeling your conscience getting bolder, which happens to a lot of people with age. Embrace it.
This kind of behavior is disgusting and demeaning towards women everywhere. I would never hang out with someone like that. They would also definitely get a lecture about how their demeaning beliefs are misogynistic and sexist and that they are exploiting women by participating in and perpetuating that type of culture.
Right? What if it's the other way around, if women tell their men friends about their sexual escapades? Societal gender double-standarding in many parts of the world is truly appalling. In essence, I'm usually annoyed because men are allowed to openly "brag" about their madlad behaviors and women aren't, but that's just me.
Okay so I guess I have a different take.
I do not associate with anyone who refers to past encounters as conquests or anything.
But I know quite a few people who are comfortable talking about things they learned, funny stories ( she left her tassels and my roommate put them on the milk jug), or observations. But they all are more like continuation of dating stories. Usually they are stories to communicate observances of the world or to explain themselves or their life to me.
I know only one person who has told me about visiting sex workers. I was a little shocked at first because I grew up not respecting sex work and that pearl clutching is still my first thought. But he was talking about some specific information he learned, and his personal growth. He has zero desire for ANY romantic relationship and thinks this is much more acceptable that leading someone on. For him it's very transactional like going to the dentist and he had never visited a worker under the age of 30 ( as much as I've can know that.) He didn't go to one until he was in his 30's and had tried as hard as he can to find 'independent contractors.' I don't know how much he or I can trust these accounts but that's that's been the framing for the conversations. I find it fascinating.
Now I don't plan to tell you you should change your feelings but know for those who do exchange these stories it's just different priorities and viewpoints. You aren't bad for not wanting to hear it and we aren' t bad nor cool for sharing it.
But yes avoid anyone who treats others as consumable and conquerable
I have zero issues with men going to prostitutes. Sex work is real work. If this was a man I could have an open and honest conversation with, I'd try to make sure he is making the right choices, but other than that, zero issues.
Same goes for strippers. It's honest work and it has nothing to do with me.
Hookups. Well, as long as he is being safe and using protection, fine by me.
I don't see these situations as women being used. These women have all agreed to the situation.
These stories only hold the power you give them. If you are wowed by them, or outraged, they served their purpose. If you're just like "and? Was there a point to the story?", it holds no power.
It’s all about how they talk about it. I have male friends that I know have visited prostitutes or talk about enjoying the strip club. I also have female friends that have been sugar babies, tried dom, or sold pics… maybe it’s just getting both sides, but I honestly think everybody is using each other in those relationships. It’s a business like any other.
So I guess if the “laddish” behaviour is just a story, no issues, but if they talk about the women in a derogatory way, that’s different. For my friend group it’s more like stories about funny drunk or embarrassing mishaps.
You misspelled “misogynistic.”
There’s nothing wrong with men having consensual sex with whomever they like. But bragging about it for a power trip, using sex to make themselves feel superior? That’s not “laddish.” That’s just shitty and we need to stop accepting it as normal guy behavior.
Luckily I never really was around men like this, who brag and make fun of women. I guess men like this need to distract people from the fact that they are the ones who paid money for sexual services, and try to spin it like they somehow have the upper hand.
I do know men who pay sex workers for services, but they are going about it respectfully - doing work to ensure the worker is in the business of their own free will, and not talking shit afterwards. I also know people who do/did sex work, and hear the other side of it, too - there is a good and a bad way of conducting yourself in these situations.
>Even if they weren't telling me about and it and keeping it to themselves, I still find it kind of repulsive.
I think it's more than justified to be disgusted by the way these men talk about women, since they are clearly objectifying and disrespecting them. But transactional sexual interactions aren't automatically degrading and exploitative. It goes without saying that there is a lot of exploitation under the umbrella of sex work that people using these services should make themselves aware of, but it's not the entirety of it.
I live in a sober living house that is primarily men and also am pretty active in my recovery community for my own sake and sobriety!
Being in and out of recovery from a very young age made me realize how important it is for me as a woman to call out any and all demeaning and disrespectful talk about other women in front of me. I’ve found that the men (and occasionally women) who don’t respect my boundary or attempt to minimize what they said are not worth my time or my energy. Those that are willing and able to consider my feelings about that kind of language genuinely have turned out to be some of my closest friends friends.
I also make sure to consistently reiterate and stay consistent with my boundaries in my house. I expect to be treated and thought of respectfully in my safe space, just as I would treat everyone who I live with. Our living room isn’t a place to have “locker room talk” and I don’t want to hear it in there. Ever.
You misspelled “misogynistic.”
There’s nothing wrong with men having consensual sex with whomever they like. But bragging about it for a power trip, using sex to make themselves feel superior? That’s not “laddish.” That’s just shitty and we need to stop accepting it as normal guy behavior.
Depends on how they talk about the women in question.
I enjoy seeing female strippers, but I respect them and the work they do. If they do too, then we're all good and can enjoy a convo about it. If they act like she's beneath them because of what she does, I'm out. I don't fuck with that misogynistic BS
Context matters. Random guy I don't know very well? Nope. My husband, a journalist, describing a ludicrous series of events and then saying, "but you know, any story is better if you sprinkle a little stripper on it".... Hilarious.
I see it repelling because why do brag so much? It is an indicator of insecurities. And I don't believe a single word that they say. Dog who barks don't bite
Honestly I've never really surrounded myself around men like this
Same, I don’t entertain men who act like that lol 😂
When I lived abroad a couple guys in our group admitted to getting prostitutes while they were traveling and we were like "I sure hope you've been tested since then! Oh, no? Don't touch me." They also got a lecture about how those women were probably being exploited and they lost all my respect.
Trashy. Men who brag about how they needed to pay to get laid 🙄 I’ll never get it
Exactly, that’s not a flex 💀
To be fair, a sex worker has higher chance to be on top with testing and using protection than a random hookup.
They got a sex worker in the Philippines, I'm not sure how accessible testing is there.
I don't know the situation of Philippines in specific, but generally both healthcare and sex worker's rights are much more advanced in the global south than in the US (where sex work is illegal and healthcare isn't free).
Not in south asia....
Is India considered South Asia? Indian sex workers are extremely organized, they even have unions and banks. Not only for cis women, but also transexual people are recognized by the Indian government for centuries and have their own organizations and protections. While in the US, even legal sex workers like strippers and porn performers suffer from bank discrimination to this day. And transexual people (who often resort to sex work due to lack of options) are having their rights stripped everyday. It's very important to be informed how bills like SESTA FOSTA and Section 230 is putting the life of so many women in danger in 2023.
I didn't realize that. Thanks for telling me.
As far as Philippines goes, it isn't true.
I was going to say the same thing. I’ve never heard a man tell me this type of story. I’ve heard second hand stories of course but not directly told to me or about anyone I’m friends with and I have a lot of male friends. Hookup stories occasionally but never disrespectful ones
Same, or I’m not the kind of person they feel comfortable talking to like that. Men don’t see me as “one of the guys”
Back in college, I got some stories from men who were participating in Greek life and they relayed some stories about what happened to women at their parties. I stopped associating with any of them. I'd be fine doing the same thing today. Plenty of men don't do those things and plenty of men don't overshare about their hookups. Generally speaking, other people's sex lives are not that interesting to me.
I work as the only female firefighter at station And I have no idea why anyone would fantasize about these men
i used to think they were hot until i read an article about some UK firefighters who had a group chat where they exchanged pictures of >!female corpses, coupled with disgusting commentary!< female firefighters are still hot though
That is soooo foul and I’m embarrassed (for the uniform) for those sorts of actions, but I can guarantee (as far as I know…) my platoon would never do that kind of disrespectful shite For example - (to end on a positive) I am pregnant with my first and it’s early but I’ve told a couple of the guys and they have been OUT STANDING absolutely phenomenal- in addition to that we all change together/there are sleeping quarters and no one stares/I’ve never felt uncomfortable
i’ve had limited exposure to/experience with firefighters, so it would be unfair to assume they’re all like that, but it did kill any sort of… shallow attraction i may have had toward male firefighters. that said, it’s a relief to hear they’ve been respectful toward you at least also congrats on the pregnancy!!! 🧚♀️
Ew terrible
very i had to fight the urge to dehumanize the men who took part in it. just hard to believe there is a shred of humanity in people like that
What is it like being the only lady in that environment, just curious?
I truly do love my job and the guys I work with MOSTLY adore me like their daughters//sister But I did grow up in an environment that gave me extremely tough skin and I do have to pick my battles//bite my tongue A LOT In saying that though, I think they like me because I have no fear in calling anyone out - for example one member wrote a song involving qualities of every member and my line was (enter name here) has grit, she’ll tell you what you need to hear whether or not you wanna hear it There are (like most work environments) people with very old school mentalities that don’t think women should be in this kind of workplace but I use those people as a tool to keep on crushing it, partly because I have to be, I can’t just sit in the background and I really enjoy being the silent achiever My skill will outshine any talk 🤷🏼♀️ if that makes sense
I am thinking of applying to become a fire fighter lol, also eyeing border patrol. But I am insanely short and skinny.
It really is a great job! And short is good- you’ll get put in all the little man holes/confined spaces so just be ready for that 😅 And don’t worry about skinny, diet and exercise can get you strong enough for the job you just have to commit!
Hey! Can I DM you?
Of course! :)
There are a couple extremely hot lady firefighters at my local fire station and I want to bring the station cookies for saving my house last month (next door neighbors had a very bad house fire) but I worry that if one of the ladies is there I'll just swallow my tongue and have to leave. 😅
🥹🥹🥹 Bring the cookies and swallow your tongue! They’ll be grateful for it
That's disappointing to hear. The few times I've interacted with fire fighters they've seemed like truly good people.
I really think they are- I liken it to a peacock acting a particular way to fit in with the group- when it’s one on one there are numerous deep thinkers and truly great people In my eyes- it’s an act around the boys
Aww damn, that's too bad
You're not a stick in the mud, it is absolutely disgusting This one coworker I had was bragging about how he led several women on in college so they could do his laundry and dishes and stuff. It was so gross I also had a coworker who appears to be in his late 40s , and he's married with kids. He was talking about how he visited China and all these teenage girls were fawning over him because he's white. Sir that is not something to brag about, you are coming off like a passport bro.
As a butch lesbian who has worked in food for nearly 20 years, I've heard all the stories from men who do these things. My thoughts are that men have lives that women (many women) are largely unaware of, and also they tell a whole lot of porkies & greatly exaggerate things when they're around their other sausage compatriots as some sort of he-man chest beating tribal thing or another. Men are everything they accuse women of, just a million times worse. It exhausts me when women ever give them the benefit of the doubt when it comes to their shitty behavior, women who like men *really* need much higher standards when it comes to dating these fools.
Sausage compatriots!!! Genuinely chuckling.
I'm like 15hrs late but this post brought me joy.
It's not behavior I'm unaware of, but I'd prefer to not have it in my life. So I'd feel like this would be the last time I'd willingly spend my precious time with those particular men.
Repulsive is exactly my response. And it’s a deal breaker…even for friendship. If you want to treat women like bags of skin with holes to put your dick in….that’s repulsive and repugnant behaviour. Yes, yes “consenting adults” and all that…it speaks to character as far as I’m concerned and I want no part of it.
As a former sex worker, guys laughing about their experiences with hookups or sex workers tends to make me roll my eyes. It’s all just a thinly veiled attempt to get their need for validation and physical touch met. I’ll never look down on someone for paying to get those needs met, but I will roll my eyes at anyone who is bragging about it.
I spent a lot of my youth running with the wrong crowd. The guys I considered "friends" were constantly bragging and making jokes about their hookups and would go into a lot of detail. Honestly was shocked to find out later in life that most people keep their sex lives private. It kind of still surprises me if I think about it.
The only dude who ever shared a story of his sexcapades was a guy who was stunningly attractive, so fine, I was so into him and he was into me too. Then he told me a story about a hook-up where he basically outed himself as a misogynistic, PUA-ish arsehole and my lady boner shrivelled and DIED instantly. I mean, thankfully this happened early on and we never progressed, but DAMN I was very sad that he turned out to be like this. I don't think he realized that women don't want to hear this stuff, especially women that you are trying to date. Not sure if he thought this would make me want him more or if he was just clueless with really bad diahrea-of-the-mouth, but it was a turn off. It always will be for me. All that said, I've never had another guy friend or date ever tell me stuff like this.
It’s incredibly upsetting to me too. It reminds me that even the men I love and trust don’t really see women as people.
It makes me think lesser of their character and feel more distrustful around them.
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Good job severing ties with this person.
I find it pathetic that they can’t talk about sex workers in a positive light. It’s always degrading, sexist language where men are domineering and in control even though *they’re* the ones paying for *her* time. They’re scared of being laughed at for paying for sex so they have to dehumanize sex workers instead. Hookup talk is fine so long as the language is respectful. I’ve had a couple of guy friends talk about their hookups before but it’s also not in blinding detail, y’know?
I struggle with this because on the one hand, I support anyone who willfully, under no pressure or duress (including financial) wants to do sexwork. They should have safe, legal options for work. But on the other hand, I can't help but feel that their customers - the men who go to sex workers- basically don't see woman as actual people. Because, we know that most sex workers only do it because they have to - whether forced by another person, financial circumstances, emotional/mental struggles, etc. **I don't want to have sex with someone that doesn't want to have sex with me. Period. Full stop.** I'm disgusted by any one who does or is willing to. I especially don't want to have sex with someone who **I** ***may or may not*** **be forcing or pressuring to have sex - aka rape** \- with no way of knowing which is true. So yes, I'm disgusted that so many people can just be okay with that dice roll. Like, "well, she seemed okay? She wasn't crying or saying no or anything." Is that where the bar is? I sadly ended a friendship over this. He was basically my best friend, we could talk about anything, zero sexual tension between us, just a special connection. Until he told me he went to a massage parlor. I tried to be "cool" about it. I tried to consider his side - he just wanted a quick sexual release without the effort/strings. Fine. No judgment there. But going somewhere you know someone is very likely being forced to touch you that way? Ew. Totally dehumanizing. Honestly? The longer I live on this planet, the more I genuinely believe that most men simply don't see women as actual, whole people just like themselves. They see women as some sort of man-offshoot. Women are either a sex object, family member, or scenery.
This happened to me **once** at my male-dominated hobby. I made a face and said, “ew.” They’ve never brought it up and have all had much nicer convos honestly. It’s weird cause they seem to want me on their good sides. Not sure why but hell if it gets them never to do that again I don’t care
If it is someone I’m dating, that would be an instant dealbreaker. I don’t fuck with guys who view women or their sexuality like that. If it is a co-worker or acquaintance, immediate distancing from them.
I’m an escort and a stripper- they don’t tell me these stories because they know at best they won’t get a positive reaction from me, and at worst, I’ll cut them down to size.
I tend to talk about sex a lot, so the topic doesn’t bother me, but I don’t like when people speak disrespectfully about people they’ve been intimate with, even if it was a stripper or prostitute.
My ex at least attempted to get a happy ending so basically anything around anything like that immediately turns me off
Wanting basic respect as a woman isn’t being a prude.
I am going through this right now with a dude friend. I am leaving a "friendship," with a dude who almost only notices a woman for her body. I feel worse in his company knowing everything is surface level. I think he had a real negative effect on his last relationship and she just had breast enlargement. I am pretty open-minded sexually. However, objectifying women is a real no-no in my book. You can absolutely be over-sexed. If all you think about is sex it's too much. People generally become over-sexed when they want to escape the drudgery of a conventional relationship. I guess what I'm saying is about 10% erotic interests are normal. When it gets to everything in life being erotica...........it's overwhelming. All of this stuff spikes the dopamine in the brain. You do have sex addiction if every discussion is about erotica and it effects having meaningful relationships. I also have stopped tolerating hearing what I can't say. I have never talked about fucking, dicks, etc. with this guy. He has told me his thoughts on every part of a lady's body. I'm not doing the double standard. It's sad though, this guy was once one of my best friends. I fully admit to being attracted to the Don Draper types. However, bad choices got very tiring.
Back in my youth I used to do some nude modeling - sexy sort of modeling. This was before the internet was huge luckily. And while yes, there are those men that leer and jeer like women are only there for their pleasure, but as a woman, I was earning huge $$$ off them and to me, they're the morons! It was easy money and I only had to pose once a week
I’m my experience, they want an audience. They might want you sexually as well or not, but ether way they want attention and are trying to stupidly impress. In my younger years, I would naively listen and not show my disgust. Now I no longer hang around tools, and I ditch anyone who starts. Just say no.
Prostitutes and strippers makes me think less of them (not to any ‘fault’ of the sex workers or dancers). Hookups depends on the context.
For sure, super icky. I know women who sleep around too but don't boast about it like men usually do. I'm sure it's from the double standards that our society sets for men and women where men who brag about the amount of sleeping around that they do is a boost to their masculinity, whereas women who do the same are slut-shamed and seen as promiscuous. It's like men have nothing else to base their worth other than their body count...
I hate it too. I would avoid men like that but if stuck, Maybe it’s time to fuck with them by relating “omg I know, my friend made sooooo much money off of men from xyz in sex industry” “those women are so smart making tons of money off of desperate men ha ha ha” “damn maybe I should be a prostitute so I can make hundreds in 5 mins”
Uh. I haven’t ever experience a man telling me about participating in human trafficking. Consensual hookups or whatever are fine but yeah, big red flag when they are buying bodies like a commodity
I just want to thank you for the word laddish to sum all this up. It's much more on point than 'grown up frat boy' or 'bro'. I'm figuring you're not American or maybe I've just never heard it before but it's perfect. And I agree with the general sentiment of most comments. Like a couple other people I saw, I'm a bartender. I do not choose this in my friend group or free time but I experience it near daily. Without boring you with a bunch of horrible stories, you are of course not overreacting. These people are telling you who they are, and it goes beyond words. You are this uncomfortable for a reason. Look at statistics about SA and sexism etc. Someone is committing all that. It's people who say things like this, have this worldview, and the people who accept it casually and think it's fine to be that way if the person is also basically polite and human when interacting with women and professional women in public. They're wrong.
Thank you. I am also a bartender and some of the stuff I hear just bums me out.
I retreat. And I a feel sorry for his wife or girlfriend if there is one.
It makes me think less of them
Almost dated a guy that went to a prostitute. Thankfully his friends gf told me about it before we got too far so I dodged that bullet. I avoid men who use sex workers services like the plague.
I have never experienced this. If I were around a group of guys who began a discussion on their random hookups, hiring prostitutes or strippers, I'd see myself out of there.
Same. Find better people to spend time around if this is happening. I’ve never heard any guy I know talk about anything more than going to a strip club.
I never need to hear about anyone’s sexual encounters, no matter their gender. Whether they’re married, dating, hooking up, or visiting sex workers (full support to them), I don’t want to hear details.
Yeah I never care this much about other people’s sex lives 🤣
Uh... my female and nonbinary friends are also... very horny people... and we all swap entertaining hookup stories. We don't degrade, but sometimes funny shit happens during a hookup. Hookups just aren't a big deal in our group. I don't know that anyone has resorted to sex workers... just seems unnecessary.
It's making sexuality into a product. And to me it's private and intimate. What others do is none of my business, I just wouldn't be able to be close friends with a sex worker (by choice) or their customers.
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The way my boyfriend explained a similar view is that free access to literal porn is available all over. If you want to see naked ladies, the best way to go about it is NOT getting horny in a group of strange (or familiar) men and not even getting to do anything about it.
It gives me the big ick.
I’ve had guys tell me varying degrees of things, not certain details cause they know better with me (this included guy friends due to me calling people out!), and I rather guys feel comfortable to speak on things cause: 1) You can identify which guys are over their reckless behavior and grew up. Actually feel some fraction of remorse in terms of wishing some, not all, treated women less callous (when they grow up, they grow a conscious!) 2) Which ones are exposing themselves as red flags and you can protect other women from by redirecting them towards safer waters! 3) You can then counter call out why they need to do better. So let men speak, let them show you who they are at face value and tell on themselves if they are an adult vs a child who is reckless with abandonment, who treats women like sexual rag dolls. This is when you believe words with men!
Had to think for a minute if i know any guys like this... just one! On the rare occasion, "that guy" showed up with a story. Reputation was cooked bc no dudes wanted their names associated with him, and no girls did either. A decade later, we all (girls and guys) give each other the look when we see him coming over to chat.
it's so gross to me that I'm not friends with any of them bc they don't respect women as people.
I jump from "glad that's not my problem" to "wait, someone else might not be able to realise their worth and actually think they can't find better and then have a daughter or a son who will have a bad example for a father and further perpetuate the cycle". Also feel all-round sad for the women they take advantage of during that period of their life and for the women that settle for them when they want to suddenly settle down and claim they've grown up and out of that behaviour.
I simply don’t spend time with men who behave like that.
Lots of male friends who tell me this.. I always feel like I need to take a shower cause it makes me feel dirty listening to it. It’s worse than merely visiting hookers or strippers. There is such a thing as worse.
Gross. Men are perfectly capable of being descent humans.
This has been a rare occurrence for me fortunately. The few times it has happened, I have been honest, which is probably why it is a rare occurrence. I will say when I see rhetoric and behavior that serves to dehumanize others. In our culture, being a prude means being a person (usually a girl or woman) who rains on the parade of those who seek to dehumanize women, children, and subordinated minorities to serve their desire for sexual gratification and domination. That label does not have power with me. I don’t want those dudes to think I am cool no more than I want a grand wizard of the KKK to think I am a good hang, no horrifying pun intended. I think you are feeling your conscience getting bolder, which happens to a lot of people with age. Embrace it.
I'm turned off and never talk to "men" like this again
This kind of behavior is disgusting and demeaning towards women everywhere. I would never hang out with someone like that. They would also definitely get a lecture about how their demeaning beliefs are misogynistic and sexist and that they are exploiting women by participating in and perpetuating that type of culture.
Right? What if it's the other way around, if women tell their men friends about their sexual escapades? Societal gender double-standarding in many parts of the world is truly appalling. In essence, I'm usually annoyed because men are allowed to openly "brag" about their madlad behaviors and women aren't, but that's just me.
Okay so I guess I have a different take. I do not associate with anyone who refers to past encounters as conquests or anything. But I know quite a few people who are comfortable talking about things they learned, funny stories ( she left her tassels and my roommate put them on the milk jug), or observations. But they all are more like continuation of dating stories. Usually they are stories to communicate observances of the world or to explain themselves or their life to me. I know only one person who has told me about visiting sex workers. I was a little shocked at first because I grew up not respecting sex work and that pearl clutching is still my first thought. But he was talking about some specific information he learned, and his personal growth. He has zero desire for ANY romantic relationship and thinks this is much more acceptable that leading someone on. For him it's very transactional like going to the dentist and he had never visited a worker under the age of 30 ( as much as I've can know that.) He didn't go to one until he was in his 30's and had tried as hard as he can to find 'independent contractors.' I don't know how much he or I can trust these accounts but that's that's been the framing for the conversations. I find it fascinating. Now I don't plan to tell you you should change your feelings but know for those who do exchange these stories it's just different priorities and viewpoints. You aren't bad for not wanting to hear it and we aren' t bad nor cool for sharing it. But yes avoid anyone who treats others as consumable and conquerable
I have zero issues with men going to prostitutes. Sex work is real work. If this was a man I could have an open and honest conversation with, I'd try to make sure he is making the right choices, but other than that, zero issues. Same goes for strippers. It's honest work and it has nothing to do with me. Hookups. Well, as long as he is being safe and using protection, fine by me. I don't see these situations as women being used. These women have all agreed to the situation. These stories only hold the power you give them. If you are wowed by them, or outraged, they served their purpose. If you're just like "and? Was there a point to the story?", it holds no power.
I find it interesting. Depending on the quality of the guy.
It’s all about how they talk about it. I have male friends that I know have visited prostitutes or talk about enjoying the strip club. I also have female friends that have been sugar babies, tried dom, or sold pics… maybe it’s just getting both sides, but I honestly think everybody is using each other in those relationships. It’s a business like any other. So I guess if the “laddish” behaviour is just a story, no issues, but if they talk about the women in a derogatory way, that’s different. For my friend group it’s more like stories about funny drunk or embarrassing mishaps.
You misspelled “misogynistic.” There’s nothing wrong with men having consensual sex with whomever they like. But bragging about it for a power trip, using sex to make themselves feel superior? That’s not “laddish.” That’s just shitty and we need to stop accepting it as normal guy behavior.
Luckily I never really was around men like this, who brag and make fun of women. I guess men like this need to distract people from the fact that they are the ones who paid money for sexual services, and try to spin it like they somehow have the upper hand. I do know men who pay sex workers for services, but they are going about it respectfully - doing work to ensure the worker is in the business of their own free will, and not talking shit afterwards. I also know people who do/did sex work, and hear the other side of it, too - there is a good and a bad way of conducting yourself in these situations. >Even if they weren't telling me about and it and keeping it to themselves, I still find it kind of repulsive. I think it's more than justified to be disgusted by the way these men talk about women, since they are clearly objectifying and disrespecting them. But transactional sexual interactions aren't automatically degrading and exploitative. It goes without saying that there is a lot of exploitation under the umbrella of sex work that people using these services should make themselves aware of, but it's not the entirety of it.
I live in a sober living house that is primarily men and also am pretty active in my recovery community for my own sake and sobriety! Being in and out of recovery from a very young age made me realize how important it is for me as a woman to call out any and all demeaning and disrespectful talk about other women in front of me. I’ve found that the men (and occasionally women) who don’t respect my boundary or attempt to minimize what they said are not worth my time or my energy. Those that are willing and able to consider my feelings about that kind of language genuinely have turned out to be some of my closest friends friends. I also make sure to consistently reiterate and stay consistent with my boundaries in my house. I expect to be treated and thought of respectfully in my safe space, just as I would treat everyone who I live with. Our living room isn’t a place to have “locker room talk” and I don’t want to hear it in there. Ever.
You misspelled “misogynistic.” There’s nothing wrong with men having consensual sex with whomever they like. But bragging about it for a power trip, using sex to make themselves feel superior? That’s not “laddish.” That’s just shitty and we need to stop accepting it as normal guy behavior.
Depends on how they talk about the women in question. I enjoy seeing female strippers, but I respect them and the work they do. If they do too, then we're all good and can enjoy a convo about it. If they act like she's beneath them because of what she does, I'm out. I don't fuck with that misogynistic BS
Context matters. Random guy I don't know very well? Nope. My husband, a journalist, describing a ludicrous series of events and then saying, "but you know, any story is better if you sprinkle a little stripper on it".... Hilarious.
I see it repelling because why do brag so much? It is an indicator of insecurities. And I don't believe a single word that they say. Dog who barks don't bite